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What if the most powerful tool for feminine pleasure has been silenced for centuries? Many women are trapped in a devastating cycle: they fall in love, then systematically disappear—sacrificing their desires, dimming their light, and losing their voice for the sake of relationship harmony.
WHAT WE’RE DIVING INTO
- Why "compromise" is actually killing your relationships (and what to do instead)
- The magic of speaking the conversation underneath the conversation
- How to say "no" without guilt (yes, really!)
- Active listening that actually works when emotions are high
- Standing in your power while staying heart-centered
LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE CAN BE FOUND ON THE WEBSITE
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AWAKENING THE GODDESS IN CRETE! Leah & Willow want to take you on an all-woman's tantric pilgrimage to Greece Oct 5-12, 2025! Join us for a trip of lifetime.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Willow (00:06):
What if the most powerful tool for feminine
pleasure has been silenced forcenturies?
Today's guest reveals how thevoice holds the key to unlocking
embodied liberation and why somany women have been
disconnected from this primalpower.
I'm Dr.
Willow Brown.
I'm here with my amazingco-host, Leah Piper for the Sex
(00:27):
Reimagined podcast.
We are so grateful for all yourwonderful likes, shares, and
subscribes.
Keep them coming.
And today we have.
A very special guest, a dearfriend of ours, Maya Kova.
She's a feminine embodimentspecialist and a lead
facilitator at the Tantra NewYork Institute.
We're so excited that Maya'swith us.
(00:48):
She's a sensuality and lovecoach who helps women and
couples create secure andconnected relationships.
She specializes in Authenticrelating and embodied
self-expression.
And she is the creator of voice,which we're gonna be talking a
lot about today.
And we might touch a little biton how she is the lead coach for
(01:09):
the 90 day relationship, butwe're gonna be talking a lot
more about that in anotherepisode with Maya and her
partner.
Leah (01:16):
it is time to tune in, turn on and fall in love with
our friend, our sister, ourcolleague, Maya Kova.
Announcer (01:23):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame-free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.
Leah (01:33):
Welcome Maya.
Maya (01:33):
Thank you so much for such warm welcome, and it's such a
joy to be here with both of you.
I love both of you dearly and.
And our Tantric path definitelyput an impact on my personal
journey.
Leah (01:47):
Yeah, we, we've explored lots of Tantra camps together
and we've danced at otherworkshops that have been really
fabulous, that have contributedto all of our paths.
Maya, I'm really curious, youknow, Willow just introduced
your work with the voice.
And I have watched you work withwomen and been invited on your
platform a couple of times totalk about women's empowerment
(02:07):
and helping women heal, um,emotionally sexually, gain more
skill sets energetically.
Tell me a little bit about yourjourney to feminine empowerment.
You know, what has, what havebeen the obstacles in your life
regarding having a voice and howhave you overcome them?
Maya (02:24):
Hmm.
Thank you.
What a great, uh, question.
In relationships, I woulddisappear.
I would fall in love.
I would disappear in the loveand in the man and, and I love
saying, I love, love.
And yet I had to look at myrelationships and what happens
(02:46):
to my core and my power and mypersonality when I get in close
proximity to a man and startdoing this polarity dance.
And then go into, um, this kindof like blind conditioning of,
um, sacrificing myself andthinking that compromising or
(03:08):
stepping over my desires or mytruth for the sake of
relationship would make me happyin a relationship.
And I had to learn that that's amyth.
And it actually makes me deeplyunhappy.
It, uh, dims my light.
It separates me from my feminineradiance and my feminine
(03:30):
intuition and my femininecreativity and actually make me
resent my partner.
So nobody's winning in thistemplate.
And, um, so I created voice ayear ago, May, 2024.
And created voice because Irealized after I've been working
(03:50):
with women for five years, thatwe cannot embody our femininity
if we cannot say how we feel,what we desire, if we avoid
conflicts, if we fawn inconversations with authority,
any kind of authority, um, likewhat kind of empowerment and
(04:15):
embodiment we talking about.
And then on the other side, um,how we talk because being a
victim, uh, blaming otherpeople, blaming patriarchy in
all the problems that we have isalso not a healthy, empowered
feminine way to thrive.
(04:36):
So I start just seeing thatthere is some disconnect in a
modern feminine feminism wherewe actually don't speak.
We either blow up or tolerate,and I'm like, there needs to be
a different way.
And, and I personally deeplyconnected to the topic, and I'm
(04:57):
a student on the path myselfbecause I know, and I've been
known for avoiding conflicts and
Willow (05:05):
Mm
Maya (05:06):
not saying the truth.
Willow (05:08):
Not saying anything.
Kind of like placating.
Acquiescing.
Yeah.
I think it's so, such a commonthing.
Thing that people learn.
Well, when you get in arelationship, there's gonna be a
lot of compromise, you know?
I mean, there's always gonna besome, but it's not gonna be, it
doesn't have to be a lot, andyou don't have to not speak your
truth.
It is one of the places,whenever I'm doing Somato
(05:29):
emotional release with womenalways.
It's almost like 99% of the timeright here at the, at the throat
chakra, right between the heartand the throat is where they
feel the block.
Maya (05:39):
Yeah, I and I.
Leah (05:41):
Yeah.
Maya (05:42):
I just wanna say Willow, that working with you, uh, I'm
sure contributed intodiscovering and embracing this
and, uh, being on the path withLeah.
I always was amazed by Leahability to say the truth
unapologetically.
So, um, you both definitelycontributed into, um, inspiring
(06:06):
me to diving deeper into thiswork.
Willow (06:10):
Yay.
I love the way the ripple effectripples out.
Now you get to help all thewomen who are coming to you.
It's fantastic.
Leah (06:18):
I think it's interesting, especially when we're with
charismatic, uh, powerful men,um, who are highly competent,
um, and know what they want, howeasy it is to fall into like
this ancient conditioning wherewomen have been sort of trained
(06:38):
from generation to generation toput everyone else first.
And, um, and to be very pleasingbecause if you're pleasing,
that's how you'll get love.
If you're pleasing, that's howthey'll stay.
Um, and so we tend to selfabandon.
In order to keep thatrelationship to feel like we're
on solid ground, even thoughlittle ruptures are happening in
(07:00):
the inside.
And like you said, Maya, thatcan often come out sideways
through like resentment throughthe tone of our voice, through
meltdowns, through mood swings,and I remember being in a
relationship where it was sobased in some of that chaos and
the relationship was soimportant to me that I often,
uh, yeah, totally put myselflast.
(07:22):
Last.
And then, you know, you try tobe agreeable and then I would
have these moments of just whereI would get so overwhelmed and I
would have this blow up and itwould be over this thing that is
so small.
And in inconsequential, and mypartner's going like, what is
your problem?
You're totally overreacting.
And yeah, from the outsidelooking in, it probably looks
like I was overreacting, butthat's because I went months
(07:45):
suppressing speaking up formyself.
And also like when I would speakup for myself, I wouldn't be
understood.
I wouldn't be deeply listenedto.
It was like pulling teeth to getcompassion and understanding to
try to create a change.
And then the worst was beinggaslit on the back end of it.
Now I'm the crazy one becausehere I am overreacting about
(08:07):
something and then you try tohave a voice and try to have a
voice, and it just kind of fellto smitherenes and it took a
while to navigate how to speakup sooner.
How.
Willow (08:18):
I think that's a really good point you're making Leah
around like, you know, I havewomen come to me all the time.
They're like, I amcommunicating.
I am expressing, I am saying,but still needs not being met,
not feeling seen, not feelingacknowledged.
Right.
So then we have to dig deeperand like, well, what, what are
you expressing?
Like, what are you saying?
(08:38):
Does it feel like an attack?
Does it, is it not the rightlanguage for that person?
Is it not, does it not relate totheir core values?
You know what you, you've gottalike learn communication skills.
So I'm curious for you, Maya, onyour journey, like at what.
Point in your, in your pathwhere you're like, okay, this
is, um, like a really crucialand important piece of having a
(09:03):
happy and healthy relationshipthat can sustain itself.
Maya (09:06):
Yeah.
You know, when, um, couple yearsago I asked my friend who has
been married for several yearsof like, what's the most
important thing in a, you know,in a committed relationship?
And at that time I was not in acommitted relationship and she
told me.
Conversations, communication,the ability to sit down and talk
about your issues.
(09:27):
And I heard that answer and inmy head I was like, boring.
Leah (09:31):
Right, totally.
Maya (09:34):
Um.
Willow (09:35):
Yeah.
Maya (09:35):
then after I've been in a committed relationship, I
realized how deeply importantthat is to, um, be able with
kindness, compassion, andvulnerability to talk about
uncomfortable things andcompletely erase the mentality.
(10:01):
I am right and you are wrong.
And that's, let's be honest,that's like the highest level of
mastery.
Like, I'm not there.
I can have a good day where I'mthere and I can have a bad day
where I'm right and he's wrong.
Right?
So, uh, but I'm realizing thevalue of that because when I can
(10:24):
sit with your pain and not makeyou wrong for how you handle it,
that's intimacy.
That's intimacy.
Even more than eye gazing.
I know we love Tantra andholding hands and eye gazing.
But when we talk about committedrelationships and what actually
creates safety is that I'm notgonna be punished when I fuck up
(10:45):
and I'm not gonna punish youwhen you not doing something
that I desire.
Leah (10:51):
Yeah, I,
Willow (10:52):
Leo.
always says, permission to fuckup.
Permission to get it wrong.
Leah (10:55):
yeah.
Permission to be human.
Willow (10:57):
Yeah.
Leah (10:58):
Um, you know, Alison Armstrong has a saying that I
really took to heart, which iswhat if no one's misbehaving?
Willow (11:04):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (11:05):
What if they have a good reason for how they're reacting
and when you can come from aplace of like.
Oh, that's right.
We're all just, we're all justresponding from our
conditioning, which has takendecades.
And everything that's happenedto us is leading up to this
reaction and, and no one's doinganything wrong.
(11:25):
They're, again, permission to behuman.
And when you kind of stamp backfrom this, like, what if I'm
treating this person as ifthey're not misbehaving, then
our tone changes, right?
Then the conversation has achance to shift in our ability
to listen.
How do you help people becomebetter listeners, Maya?
Maya (11:43):
Uh, I always teach, uh, listen with your whole body.
Don't listen with your head,especially as a woman.
Listen with your body and listenwith your heart.
And active listening actuallybegins with you noticing the
tension in your shoulders.
And then taking a breath ordropping your shoulders,
relaxing your body.
(12:05):
And uh, I totally get it thatsometimes it's so hard when,
when somebody will love, nomatter who that is, a man, a
child, a parent, a dear friend,uh, they upset with us, right?
It's kind of like automaticallywe take it personally and it
requires just a wisdom to.
Flip into different state oflike, oh, they are hurting.
(12:28):
My task is to meet them in theirpain, and it's not about me.
Like, I don't have to take thaton.
Right?
I'm meeting them there and Iwant to just acknowledge and
active listening is, um, right.
It's a coaching tool.
Why it works, because when Ireflect what you said, when I
(12:48):
say Yes, that sucks.
That's hard.
That's unfair.
It does this magic to thenervous system where you
suddenly don't have to be angryand guarded it immediate.
It can shift how you feel in aconversation in a second, just
simply acknowledging that theyare hurting.
(13:09):
But what we usually do in aconversation, we say what you
feel is wrong?
Uh, you making a big deal out ofit, or we start defending
ourselves.
And the problem with.
Leah (13:20):
Well, you did this.
Willow (13:22):
Mm-hmm.
Maya (13:23):
Yeah, and defending The problem with defending is when
we defend ourselves, it's likewe agreeing that it's wrong,
that there's a problem, right?
Versus when we reflecting howthey feel.
It creates an opportunity,right?
For the nervous system startsshifting into your kind of like
(13:44):
relaxing, right?
Releasing and getting out ofthat survival mode.
Then actually you can startremembering that like, oh yeah,
it's not my enemy, or it's notmy, I don't know, abuser or
somebody I'm healing traumawith.
This is actually my, my, mypartner.
Leah (14:02):
I think also it gives them a chance to hear themselves when
you can repeat back to them whatyou're understanding about what
they're saying, you know, andfollow up with like, do I have
that right?
Then they can clarify theirfeelings.
They can give you moreinformation.
Uh, they can correct it if it'snot quite what it is, and they
(14:24):
can hear themselves, and I thinkthen they can understand
themselves better as well.
Maya (14:29):
I also have to say that, so what brought me into this
work is just realizing that Ineed to become better at, uh,
active listening when conflicthappens, and I need to master to
be more vulnerable.
And I also need to learn tostand up for myself.
Willow (14:51):
What does that mean to you to be more vulnerable?
Like, okay, so we know activelistening is you say something I
repeat back to you what I heardyou say so that we're on the
same page and, and then theconversation goes on from there.
But what's this vulnerability
Maya (15:07):
So to me, in a relationship, vulnerability is
conversation.
Underneath the conversation I.
Is what Leah said, right?
We're we start fighting aboutsomething so simple, I don't
know, misplaced item, garbagebag, something.
There is another conversationshap happening underneath that
(15:27):
conversation and theconversation is, I miss you, or
I feel being ignored, or I'mafraid that I'm disappointing
you.
And that is important to namethat.
'cause the moment you name thatit brings you, it gi at least it
gives you opportunity to starttalking from the heart and not
(15:50):
from the story.
'Cause we all have stories abouthow people.
Let us down and what went wrong,I think in a relationship
leading from the heart is socrucial, and yet it's so
challenging.
Willow (16:07):
Hmm.
I love what you're saying herebecause we were just on a
podcast yesterday talking, and Iwas saying every emotion that
you feel is rooted in love,because you wouldn't have the
feeling of frustrated or angryor shut down or ignored.
You wouldn't have a reaction tothat if you didn't have care, if
(16:27):
you didn't have love.
Right.
So it comes back down to love.
So this is beautiful.
What you're saying is like.
Look, if we're in this squabble,it's because underneath it all,
I, I want more of you.
I miss you.
I love you.
I care about you.
Leah (16:42):
Yeah.
This matters to me.
You matter to me.
I matter to me.
Willow (16:45):
exactly.
Mm-hmm.
Leah (16:48):
So how do you help people get underneath, right?
They're, they're presenting thestory.
How do you help them start toask themselves the question,
what am I, what's underneath allof this?
What's really going on?
What's the vulnerability that Ineed to sort of now tap into and
get underneath the story as you
Maya (17:08):
so when I started leading voice.
At the beginning when I wasready for the calls, and it's
not a program, it's literally aspace where women.
The intention is for women tocome in and practice
communication, practice sayingtheir truth.
So at the beginning I was like,okay, we're gonna do this prompt
and we're gonna do thistechnique and we're gonna do
(17:29):
this.
Like you say, you know, like howyou feel and then what you need.
And then I realized thatactually none of that matters.
What really matters is for youas a woman.
Your truth.
And in order for you to embodyyour truth, you need to find it
within.
You need to actually identifywhat is your truth.
(17:52):
And I also noticed that thenwomen would come to, uh, the
voice classes and we would doshares.
They would start talking a lotabout the stories, who did what,
and like, all of that.
And, and I would pause them,right?
And I'd be like, that's not whatwe interested in.
Doesn't matter.
I'd close your eyes, please,your hands on your heart.
(18:13):
Take a deep breath, right?
Like, what do you feel?
What's your truth?
What's your unfiltered truththat you may be never said?
Your entire life, like what'sthat un unfiltered truth.
Willow (18:27):
It is so healing.
Maya (18:28):
because you will learn techniques, but none of the
techniques is gonna work whenyou feel uncomfortable in your
truth, when you not approvingyour truth, where you ashamed to
be too much or to take spacewhere,'cause I saw it very
often, right?
In Tantra, we talked so muchabout desire.
(18:50):
But the truth is, even if Iidentified my desire.
I still feel that I'm too muchasking for it.
It's not gonna land.
You can learn the best, youknow, communication technique
and try to act it out, but if,if there's no space in your body
to receive it.
You're not gonna get it,something will happen that, that
(19:13):
right w will, will not, uh, willnot be possible for you to
receive.
So what I'm deeply realizing isthat, um, the work that we need
to do as women is to say painfuland uncomfortable truth.
Right?
Which.
Leah (19:30):
Can you, can you give an example?
Can you tell a story either of awoman that you've helped or a
story from your own life thatillustrates this?
Maya (19:40):
Yeah, I can, I can, uh, give two stories.
One story is of a client.
Um, she had a very complexrelationship with her dad and,
and every time she would go
Leah (19:55):
I like most of us.
Maya (19:57):
I know, I know.
I'm like, yeah, every time she'dgo and visit, like he would just
dismiss, like he would notlisten into what she's saying or
he, he would make like fun thatshe's, and she's an artist.
Like he would make fun, youknow, something artistic and
call it sappy or whatever.
So she felt extremely, um, likedismissed and basically, you
(20:19):
know, denied in her existence.
Right?
That feeling of like, I neverenough and something's wrong
with me.
And she's been in voice andwe've been working through
different, um, right techniques,modalities, uh, on speaking up
and, and holding your truth.
And when she went, I think itwas Thanksgiving to visit them
(20:41):
and he picked her up and she satin the car.
Dad, I miss you.
And that's it, and nothing else.
And he get uncomfortable andchange the conversation, ladi
da.
And then again, um, during thattime, like he dismissed her and
(21:01):
instead of getting defensive orbeing upset, she said what she
felt in a heart.
She said like, oh, like itreally hurts me that you cannot
celebrate this achievement thatI just had at my job.
And she left it at that.
And the difference is that shedidn't feel bad about herself.
(21:22):
Like she was holding who she is,what she's doing in the world.
And she was acknowledging right,the little girl, the hurt of not
being seen.
So she left.
Then she came back for Christmasand he met her at the airport
and gave her a warmest hug andsaid to her something sweet of
(21:44):
like, I'm so glad you here, andwe're so happy to see you.
And she was in absolute awebecause that was the, like the
first time she saw an openingfor a connection from him.
And, and that's the illustrationof, right, like in her case,
instead of making him wrong ortrying to fix the relationship,
(22:06):
she just stayed in her fullness.
She didn't.
Deflated for the first time whenshe felt, um, attacked right.
Or criticized by him.
And that is, um, quite a big,like, I feel like that's like a,
an incredible week victory forher because as women, we
Willow (22:26):
Absolutely.
Leah (22:26):
that's a beautiful example.
Willow (22:28):
really exemplifies what you, what you said earlier as
like com communicating, beingvulnerable and standing in your
power at the same time.
You know, it's, there's a, whatthere is is there's a, a lack of
apology in it, right?
She's not apologetic for hertruth or the way that she's
feeling, and in what that doesis it takes out emotional charge
(22:50):
and it takes out aggressiveenergy or, or, or, you know, you
are wrong because you're notapproving of my,
Leah (22:57):
Yeah, like
Willow (22:59):
ownership of what you're actually experiencing
emotionally.
Leah (23:03):
It takes, it's got elegance to it.
But also I can see how importantbeing maybe in a group or
working with a coach to likeprocess this to get to it.
So you can bottom line it,especially with relationships
with men.
Um, because what's so elegant issimply, you know, I'm sad that
you can't celebrate myaccomplishments.
(23:24):
You know, she's not blaming,she's not defending, she's
speaking an I statement.
She's communicating very simply.
I'm sad and this is why.
And then, you know, you just,you can just gently leave it on
the table.
I.
And oftentimes I love that, likethere's this quietness, right?
It's like, it's kind of an ohshit moment of like, you can't
(23:44):
really argue when somebody saysthey feel sad, you know?
Like, how are you gonna, youknow, talk them out of that.
I guess you could say, well, youshouldn't feel that way.
But, um, to have that, thatpregnant pause afterward so that
someone can kind of, oh.
Let me just be with that.
And then, yeah, and then itinspires you actually to maybe
(24:06):
treat a situation differentlywhen you're on the receiving end
of that communication.
Hopefully.
Maya (24:10):
Yeah.
Yeah, and right and the choicealways by the other person and
you know, by the amount of workthat they have done and where
they're at.
I think in that case it was veryhelpful that she left for
another month and that was kindof like the space For him to
process and to sit.
Uh, but she, right, like she wasvulnerable for the first time.
(24:33):
Not defensive, not upset, nothurt.
She was just vulnerable.
And I think this is the masterythat we need to, uh, acquire as
women.
How can I hold my feelings andown my feelings and calmly state
them?
Without making the other personwrong.
'cause especially in a personalrelationships, right?
(24:55):
Like we have so manyexpectations for our partner,
and then ideas that they need toheal all our childhood wounds as
well and reparent us.
And when we bring that to thetable, the other person just
feel the heaviness of theburden.
Willow (25:10):
Yeah, it's a lot of
Maya (25:10):
A lot of
Leah (25:11):
Yeah.
Willow (25:12):
that's not gonna make for a playful, fun, joyful
relationship.
There is, there is a lot of thatgoing on though.
I think, um, you know, peoplelooking to be saved by another
Leah (25:23):
Well, I think it's human nature too.
I mean, you're not gonna be in along-term relationship and not
project your childhood ontothem.
You're not.
You're gonna project your mommyissues and your daddy issues.
It's the nature and the giftactually, I think, of being in
partnership.
I am always going to hold thepost of Matt's mom.
When he is unconscious and he'sstuck in pattern and he doesn't
(25:47):
see me, he sees his mom and hisreactions to the feminine
through me as a reaction towhere his conditioned experience
first experienced women.
And I think when you can justacknowledge that, like that's
okay.
Sometimes it's my job to go, oh,that's right.
He doesn't see me.
He is in the archetypical womanwound.
(26:07):
Mother wound.
And that's a ding, ding, ding togo.
Let me just take a step back.
Like you said my, let me justsee where he is hurting.
He's in a place where he doesn'ttrust women and he has a good
reason to feel that way.
And it's okay that he feels thatway with me right now.
Then I just have to step backand just sort of acknowledge
that like I get it.
(26:28):
This is hard to trust right now.
Maya (26:30):
Yeah.
Oof.
Right?
Leah (26:32):
Yeah.
And I can also say, and I feelsad about that.
Willow (26:37):
And how does Matt respond when you do that?
Does it knock him out a pattern?
Leah (26:41):
well,'cause I'm usually feeling, um, yeah, we take a
little bit of space.
Sometimes I go have a cry bymyself and I don't expect him to
take care of me in that crybecause I know he can't.
When that cry happens, heactually thinks he's being
manipulated.
So I just know that that's atrigger for him and it's
something he doesn't trust.
So I just go and have a cry bymyself.
(27:03):
I'm a, I can do that, and thenhe might, he may be able to
sense it and then he'll come inand he'll usually, you know, go.
Let's do a redo or something.
And then we, we've come to, we,we both process in our own
corners and then we, we cometowards each other with more
softness and he'll do the samewith me.
(27:24):
You know, He'll get the feeling,oh, Leah's taking, Leah's
filling up all the space in thisroom right now.
There's no more oxygen.
It's all of Leah's intensity.
Because that's how my systemreacts when I'm in that
childhood wound.
He's, he knows that now.
I mean, you spend enough timewith each other.
Hopefully you can have thesekinds of conversations where
it's like, Hey, this is where Igo when I'm triggered.
(27:45):
And it reminds me of this fromthe past.
And I always tell people, like,tell your partner what you need
to come back to love when youfind yourself separate.
What helps, what works?
And so one of the things thatMatt's learned about me is just
to go, wow, you're reallyhurting right now.
I really feel you hurting rightnow.
(28:06):
And I'm like, that's like alwaysthe best pattern interrupt for
me.
I'm like, I'm, I really amhurting right now because the
part of me I hate the most isthe one that gets intense and
can't control it.
So when he acknowledges how hardthat is for me, then there's a
place for me to drop my dukes asI like to call him.
It's like I'm no longer here to,to fight and defend because he
(28:27):
just acknowledged that I'm inthat place that is so painful.
'cause I'm so afraid that myreaction is gonna create a big
mess.
So that's like my big story, butthat's my dad reacting my whole
childhood.
You know, I adopted that, thatthat is getting better and
better, but it's probably nevergonna go away.
You know, like I can't just sayI'm gonna be this perfect person
(28:48):
that no longer is intense.
That's just not possible.
So to have people who love mesee that and go, it's okay.
Because I, I often feel likedeep down it's not okay.
Like I really am not allowed tobe that way in the world and no
one will love me if I keep itup.
So it's a really squishy thingwe do in relationship.
We
Willow (29:08):
still love
Leah (29:09):
over and over.
Thank you.
Willow (29:11):
do it with us too.
Maya (29:12):
Yeah,
Leah (29:13):
Um, so, you know, I think, yeah, I think that's getting
underneath to like thevulnerable thing and just
accepting it's okay, we're gonnaproject our mommy daddy stuff.
Can we see it eventually?
You know, and then just be therefor it.
Maya (29:28):
And you know what I also have to say is you have to
recognize on this path, right,if you're stepping into the path
of owning your truth and, um,living with other people from
the place of authenticity, um,being honest and admitting, oh,
I need to learn some skills.
(29:49):
I need to learn some resilience.
I need to learn some positivepsychology.
I need to learn some mindset.
I need to learn somevulnerability, right?
And, and, and if you with apartner where, right, like you
clash us together, then it's aninvitation for both of you.
Hey, let's go and let's learn alittle bit more.
Let's start fighting ordisagreeing in a different way.
(30:11):
Let's educate ourselves.
'cause otherwise you learnsomething with your parents,
it's been 40, 50 years and youcontinue doing this.
Like, what are you gonna do itfor the rest of your life?
Like, come on, let's upgrade howwe talk about ouchie stuff so it
can get more juicier and morefun.
Um.
(30:32):
And I think another piece is forwomen, it's so important to
start standing up for yourselfbecause for me, Leah is
different.
I grew up in a household where Ifelt that the moment there's a
conflict, I actually need to goand meet the other person to
bring them back in connection.
And in doing that, what I do, Istep over my hurt, I step over
(30:56):
my needs.
I had to kind of
Leah (30:59):
I, I had the same habit.
Yeah.
Maya (31:02):
I
Willow (31:02):
guys both run the merging pattern, I
Leah (31:05):
yeah, that takes a minute to undo.
Is to go, okay, I'm not gonnacome rescue and sacrifice myself
and always be the peacemaker.
Yeah.
Willow (31:13):
Yeah.
Maya (31:13):
And I think for women, the hardest thing for us is to
practice saying no.
And I see this a lot in a 90 dayrelationship experiment.
Um, where, right, like you cando anything you want with your
partner and when you get arandom match, if you don't wanna
be matched with them, just.
Tell them, and even sometimesfor women to say that to a man
(31:36):
or to say no to his invitation,that's like a major thing.
They've never done it in theirentire lives.
And they're doing it for thefirst time in this 90 day
relationships and theypracticing with a more conscious
man who not gonna take thatpersonally.
Maybe even tell them, thank youfor taking care of yourself.
And then it's like, what didjust happen?
Willow (31:59):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (32:00):
So you live in community and I'm really curious, like how
do you do this with yourhousemates?
You know, because I know youguys really do practice
consciously speaking your truth,naming your desires, and like
working with basically consciousconfrontation, I think.
Is that what, I don't know ifyou would use that language.
Maya (32:19):
living in community, it's definitely a test for that
because you can't stayresentful.
You can't just dismiss a person,right?
You can't go into your typicalpatterns.
So there's more, uh, opportunityto practice.
Um, coming back to the heartspace, talking from the heart
(32:42):
and practicing, saying thingsunderneath.
Right.
Like, again, I miss you.
I feel like you avoid me.
I feel that I'm doing somethingwrong around you.
Um, and, and that vulnerability,as we know, always brings, um,
uh, it's a bridge, right?
It's a bridge that then gives usopportunity to come closer.
(33:03):
And I think just realizing thatit's, it's like, it's so
interesting.
You just suddenly see from theoutside of like, why am I
holding onto this?
Like, life is so much moreabundant, rich, excited.
Like, why am I holding on that?
You know, somebody puts dishesto the left side of a rack and
not do the, you know, it's like,like why?
(33:26):
Um, and, and also learning forme, particularly learning to
speak up, learning to ask forsomething, learning to maybe
offer an adjustment, but in away that, again, I don't have a
charge, right?
I don't come to this as like, ohmy God, you're so inconvenient.
Uh, or I'm upset aboutwhatever's going on in my life,
so let me just project it on.
(33:46):
You just kind of like be mindfulof like, okay, can I give an
adjustment and can I go andattend to my emotions.
Leah (33:54):
Yeah.
'cause I think I'm, I thinkstanding up for yourself can be
tricky because some people canhear, oh, stand up for yourself.
And that means you get, you get.
All the rights to complain aboutall the things you're unhappy
about with the expectation thatsomeone's gonna change and make
you feel better.
You know?
So can you give somedistinctions?
Like where have you stood up foryourself in, in areas where like
(34:15):
it really mattered and it waslike hard to do?
Maya (34:19):
Uh, definitely in living in community, uh, made me see
the pattern that I have, that ifsomething is done not right, not
the way I think I'm, I'mparticularly very sensitive to
being considerate.
Like if somebody is not beingconsiderate in my world, I had
(34:40):
to see what I do.
I shut down.
I, but I would not say it.
I just shut down.
I talk to them less.
I avoid them I'm trying to beout of the house more, but I'm
not saying the thing.
And living in community hashelped me realize that that's
very hard.
(35:01):
Can I just say the thing, um, inthe moment?
Can I, can I say the adjustment?
Um, so like, that really helpedme to see that I shut down and I
start separating.
And also when I do that, itdoesn't help my nervous system
to feel considered'cause I'misolating myself.
(35:23):
So who's responsible for that?
Me.
Leah (35:27):
That's a really good distinction.
You know, audience, uh, willcertainly be more observant of
this in my life is, okay, oh,I'm shutting down.
I'm pulling away.
I'm now avoiding connection.
I'm choosing isolation so that Ican avoid a confrontation.
It's like this.
I'm gonna pull myself out.
(35:48):
And that's a good ding, ding,ding, right of going, oh, that's
right, Maya said that's a sign.
Willow (35:54):
Yeah, that's
Leah (35:55):
what do I need to find?
What do I need to say?
Willow (35:58):
that's a form of protection, right?
It's a form of not getting hurtfurther.
Um, but it's also creates ablock to love and connection.
Maya (36:07):
Yeah.
And I love, I would say that Ifollow religiously in my work,
the Rumi quote, that your taskis not to find love, but to
remove all the barriers aroundlove that you build and created.
And like, that's kinda mymission for myself and in
supporting, uh, people.
And with women, I want, like, Ireally want women to be
(36:31):
confident in their voice and intheir truth, and then be able to
say it right.
Where I honoring my emotions,I'm honoring my needs and I'm
not leaking all over.
I'm not in my victim hood andI'm not making you wrong or an
enemy.
'Cause when we talk from thatplace with man, they're not
(36:51):
gonna hear us.
They get defensive'cause man'spsychology, right man.
They want to win with women,they want to be praised by how
they're showing up.
And depending on the amount ofwork they have done, when that's
not happening, they might getdismissive, aggressive, they
might shut down.
And again, that doesn't bring usthat love and play and polarity
Leah (37:16):
Right.
Just more separation.
Maya (37:17):
and more separation.
Yeah.
And one thing I wanna say, whatdifferent about voice is that,
again, it's not a program, it'sliterally a lab.
Where every week you learndifferent particular, um, tool
about embodiment orcommunication.
Like we talk about conflict, sayno assumptions, different mental
patterns.
Then you practice for two weekswith a different woman.
(37:41):
So you practice saying things.
We do a lot of practicing evenwith each other because that
trains and teaches your, uh,mind and your body that I'm not
gonna die when I say this.
And I can also notice what'sgoing on and how people respond
to me.
Right.
And, and when it comes tocommunication, I think the
(38:02):
physical experience of sayingsomething out loud, like even in
the mirror creates like rewiresyour nervous system, so then you
can say it to your boss, to yourmom, to your partner with
Leah (38:17):
Well, it helps remove the charge
Maya (38:19):
Yeah.
100%.
Leah (38:20):
it, it diminishes you, process it so that when you can
actually say it to the person,you're connected to yourself.
You're not stuck in the patternwhere it comes out with all this
charge, which is usually whatpeople are reacting to when they
get defensive anyways.
It's like they're noticing thelook, the tone, you know, the,
the charge underneath all thewords, which
Willow (38:41):
actually see the, the pupils dilate when somebody's
amygdala starts to fire.
God.
There was this great book, Ican't remember the name of it
now, but it, it was, I hadcreated a whole flow chart out
of it to work with couples, likefirst look at their eye, like,
are their pupils dilating?
You know, to read what'shappening in the brain.
You can see it through thefacial expression, you know,
(39:03):
around the tightness around,does the mouth narrow?
Do the eyes narrow?
Like all these different thingsthat we can see.
That we can communicate, use forcommunication that are
nonverbal.
And I'm, I'm, as I'm listeningto you talk about the voice, my,
uh, talk about voice.
Maya, I am, um, hearing like somany different modalities kind
(39:24):
of woven in, like nonviolentcommunication, positive
psychology, um, what, what aresome of the other, uh, sort of
modalities that you're weavingtogether in
Maya (39:35):
Tantra, of course.
Uh, ident identifying desires.
Uh, pleasure list.
Leah, the first exercise that Ilearned from you for cultivating
more pleasure, Um, embodiment,uh, and energy work that, uh,
I've done with Lydia Ceasara,how to Feel yourself, how to
(39:55):
Hold your Boundaries, concept ofBoundaries, concept of your
energetic space, uh, concept ofawareness.
Because conversation you, so,right.
Um, uh, Willow conversationstarts not when you open your
mouth.
It kind of starts when you enterthe room.
So how you enter the room
Willow (40:13):
You're gonna read
Leah (40:14):
And when you leave the room
Willow (40:16):
energy.
Yeah,
Maya (40:17):
yeah.
Right.
And, and, and getting from thementality of.
I need to be right to thementality of like, what is it
that I'm gonna create?
And to me, for women, that's ourgift.
But that's also in a way ourlike biggest responsibility
because, and I saw this with mypartner.
(40:38):
When we just moved in togetherand there was like a lot of kind
of like clashing of space anddifferent things that we need.
Um, and when I would like judgehim silently and be like upset
with him, he would respond moreaggressively to me.
But when I soften into my heartand remember that I love him, he
(40:59):
would like suddenly come andgive me hugs and kisses or like,
hold me at night and, and he andI saw like, oh my God.
Like he responds to how I feel.
So that what a responsibility Ihave in this relationship in a
way, right?
That I'm bringing so much likeemotional, uh, heart in it.
Leah (41:22):
Yeah.
Right.
It's like when you get morereal, it invokes someone's
generosity.
It's like, it's all like thatshift of like when you get
softer, they get softer.
Willow (41:33):
totally.
You start to see like the magicthat's possible when you, um,
when you drop back into yourcar.
And it's not just withinintimate relationships, it's
within all relationships.
If you're struggling with yourboss or you're struggling with
your housemate, or you'restruggling with a friend or
whatever it is.
It's like coming back to love.
How quickly can you, can youturn your attention back to
(41:57):
what's at the root of it all,which is that you love and care
about that person.
And Maya, you had, you gave usthat one beautiful example, but
you'd said you had two.
So I'm still
Leah (42:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Willow (42:08):
at that example.
Number two, do you remember whatit is?
Maya (42:11):
yeah.
The second one was about, uh, myrelationship with my partner.
When we start practicing, uh,like we agreeing ahead of time
that we need to have anuncomfortable conversation on a
particular topic so both of uscan mentally get ready to that.
Uh, we're still working onagreement not to discuss stuff
(42:33):
when we triggered.
Sometimes it works, sometimes itdoesn't.
But, you know, um, on a gooddays, right, we agree that like,
okay, we're gonna talk onTuesday.
So you prepare for theconversation, I prepare for the
conversation, and then when wecome to a conversation, we
practicing that.
When I'm sharing and when I'mtalking, I want you to come like
(42:53):
energetically and sit next tome.
So you not listening me fromyour standpoint with your.
Excuses and your philosophy oflife.
You actually like coming andsitting next to me, right?
And you listening it, right?
Like kind of like trying to putyourself into my shoes and I do
(43:14):
the same thing, and theconversation goes much slower.
And the energy and emotions aremore grounded and more lower,
and then it's so much moreeasier to be like, oh, this is
what you need.
Of course, right?
Like there is so much, um, roomto right, like to actually start
(43:37):
finding and building the bridgesto come back together.
However, right?
Like, to be realistic, what Iwant to say it is our personal
responsibility to deal with ouremotions on our own.
And I'm really building aculture in our relationship of
not dumping stuff on each otherand not being punching bags.
(44:00):
'Cause that's like it leads.
To separation and nothing else.
Like it doesn't do anything.
Yeah.
Like, and, and I, and I, and Iget what Leah says, that of
course we're gonna project, likeof course we're gonna project
certain things.
Uh, and it's like, okay, can Ijust be mindful of that and
bring myself,
Leah (44:19):
Can I own that in the moment?
I can say, oh my God, I know I'mprojecting all over you and I
know this isn't you.
I know this is from the past,but God dammit, here it's,
Maya (44:27):
Yeah.
Leah (44:29):
yeah, because then you're at least owning it and that
helps the other person kind ofhold the bucket on occasion.
Maya (44:34):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (44:35):
I also like what you said about like sitting next to each
other, Matt's always having toremind me, look, we're, we're
not gonna face off on eachother.
If I'm the problem or you're theproblem, let's sit next to each
other.
So we face the problem
Maya (44:48):
Mm-hmm.
Willow (44:48):
Yeah.
like you're on the same team.
Leah (44:50):
Problem with the other person.
Yeah.
And uh, that's, yeah.
That's
Willow (44:54):
You know, I've, I've, I am thinking of a, a little
tactic too, which is like, toname your team, like, what is
the name of the two of you as ateam.
So that can be really useful in
Leah (45:05):
I like that.
Maya (45:06):
I
Willow (45:06):
where you're always, uh, against each other and always at
odds with each other.
It's like, well, let's, let'sget on the same team.
What, what,
Leah (45:15):
I love that.
Willow.
You know, something else aboutthis conversation reminds me of
what Byron Katie often says, um,which is, can you speak the
truth, at the risk of notgetting love, not getting
approval, and not gettingappreciation for sharing what
you need to share?
(45:36):
And that always gives me courageto say the hard thing, if I can
remind myself that this isimportant, and it's okay if I
don't get those things that Ihope I'll get, because don't we
most want to get loveappreciation and, um, an
affirmation for this thing thatwe say, like we want the world
(45:58):
to recognize it and sometimesother people can't.
And can we be okay?
Can we actually just be happywith the fact that we said it
out loud?
Willow (46:05):
I am imagining some of our listeners might be sitting
there thinking, okay, but how doI know when it's really
important to say versus this isreally not that big of a deal
and I could sweep it under therug?
Because when you're in a, on apath of personal development and
personal growth and evolution,you know, there's.
(46:26):
There's old pattern of like, oh,it's not that big of a deal.
I'll just hold it inside.
I'll, I'll handle it myself.
I won't speak up about it.
That's, but that could be just ablock to your evolution versus
like, is it really a big deal?
So Maya, how do you coachpeople?
How do you guide people onfiguring out the difference
Leah (46:45):
Yeah.
I wanna add to the nuance ofwhat you're saying, Willow, for
you to address Maya because.
Like we're also, it's like a,sometimes it's a balancing act.
It's like, okay, here's thisthing and I have some emotions
about it, so I need to goprocess the emotions by myself
so then I can have theconversation.
And so I, and like.
I know for me, I say that in myhead, but then I just end up
(47:06):
suppressing the emotions andnever get to the part where it's
like, oh yeah, I have to processthis thing so that I can still
have that conversation.
It, it gets a little,'causewe're like straddling both
sides.
It's like how do we know it'simportant enough to bring up
versus the other part that'sjust like, okay, and now I just
have a laundry list all thetime.
Do I have to voice everything?
Maya (47:29):
Yeah, I think that number one, the truthful answer is you
gonna learn.
You gonna learn.
Right.
You, uh, by bringing things up,you're gonna learn what's
important, what's actually notimportant, and you're gonna
learn, distinguish is thereactually a conversation
underneath the conversation,right?
Like is the small thing isactually about, again, something
(47:51):
bigger where I don't feelacknowledged or I don't feel,
uh, appreciated, or I just missmy partner and I'm craving more
connection.
Um, that's one piece of it.
The other piece of it is torecognize where I need to start
working and expanding myemotional palate.
(48:13):
I had where I need to go andmaybe learn different tools to
process where I need to justhave a discipline and start,
grow my capacity to be groundedeven when things are shaky or
when I'm irritated by mypartner.
Right.
Can I, and to me it's all comesdown to cultivating the, um self
(48:37):
of sense in terms of stayingcentered in me.
'cause if I'm safe withinmyself, if I know how to give
myself my own acknowledgement,if I'm offering myself, I'm
offering myself compassion, thenmy capacity to not receive it
from a partner growth.
I'm not saying that.
I'm gonna be in a relationshipwhere it's not available,
(48:58):
period.
Right?
That's a red flag, but I'm notgonna collapse necessarily, or
I'm not gonna right.
Like, go on a much more dramaticride.
And I, I ultimately think that,um, to thrive in life, it.
Doesn't mean to get lucky.
It doesn't mean to, uh, be veryrigid and have systems.
(49:22):
It really starts with growingyour capacity to hold the
discomfort without collapsing,right?
Leah (49:29):
I really like what you're saying there and I think too,
like sometimes when you, whenyou have a safe place to like
process a little bit and hearyourself, you can also come to
realize, oh, the adjustment'sjust in me.
I.
I don't, I don't actually needto ask for anything here.
I just needed to kind of sortout on the inside how I really
feel about this, and turns outthe adjustment was in me all
(49:52):
along.
I don't thi this.
And then you feel better and youmake you, you make the
calibration and like the, youcan avoid.
And not from a place ofunhealthy avoidance.
It's from a place of going, oh,I resolved this inside of
myself.
The charge has dropped.
Maya (50:09):
The charges
Leah (50:09):
Turns out I just needed to hear this from me.
This is really about therelationship to myself and you
need sometimes to bounce thatoff of someone so you can hear
it and feel it and come to thatconclusion.
I think too, like self-coachinghelps, like learning some
self-coaching strategies so thatyou can also talk back to the
thought and have someself-inquiry, I think is also
(50:32):
really useful.
Maya (50:33):
and I, right, like being, um, I have one year of voice,
which I'm like, oh my God, I didit.
Um, and it's been prettychallenging year for myself, but
like showing up for those calls,practicing myself was extremely
helpful.
What I'm realizing is you gonnaown your voice as a woman when
you are self-centered woman.
(50:54):
In a good sense, right?
What it means is I am groundedin me.
I'm centered in me.
I'm not like somewhere else,right?
My attention is not on 10 otherpeople.
My attention starts from me andI'm calibrating what is it that
I'm available for?
Um, and.
Yeah.
And, and that's right.
(51:15):
That's the embodiment.
That's kind of, I'm feelingmyself before I'm saying yes to
things, and when I say no, Idon't feel guilty because I'm
calibrating.
Don't have capacity.
Love.
You don't have capacity.
Leah (51:29):
Right, right.
Well, I know, um, Maya, thatyou've got a free gift for our
audience.
I'd love for you to share whatthat is and also how can people
sign up to experience the voiceand, and work with you.
Maya (51:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I am sharing a link to signup for the voice, um, and you
can technically join anytime Ido.
Open like for a public and dolike public calls twice per year
for voice.
But you can join voice anytimeit's ongoing, uh, experience.
And all the recordings ofprevious calls are available and
(52:04):
we're gonna welcome you with alot of love and onboard you.
Um, and as for a free gift, Iwant to offer a free gift based
on everything we talked today.
I wanna offer a free gift as a,uh, Tantric breath work where
you do a beautiful, uh,breathing exercise where you
contract your pelvic musclesthat actually helps you center
(52:27):
yourself because this is yourinternal muscles.
So you literally start feelingyour body and bringing your
whole attention and awareness toyou.
And that's, uh, a deliciouspractice that, uh, teaches you
to shift your focus fromeverything else into what's
happening in my body.
Willow (52:48):
I love that.
Leah (52:49):
Love it.
Willow (52:50):
It's gonna be so valuable.
Thank you so much for
Maya (52:53):
Yeah.
Willow (52:53):
generous.
Leah (52:55):
Well, we can't wait to be back soon.
Yes,
Willow (52:58):
we're gonna talk to you next with your partner guy
talking about the 90 dayrelationship, and uh, we look
forward to more convo then.
Leah (53:07):
yes.
Congratulations on your one yearanniversary.
May there be many years, manyseasons to come and, uh,
everybody go check out MayaKova.
Love, love, love.
Maya (53:17):
Thank you so much.
Leah (53:19):
Oh, and y'all don't, the episode's not actually over.
We still have a dish, so staytuned.
'cause Willow and I are up next.
Announcer (53:28):
Now our favorite part, the dish.
Willow (53:32):
I love Maya.
She's such a sweetheart.
And, um, yeah, getting women tospeak up and to express and to
not be in apology about what'strue for them, but to actually
come to terms with their truth.
I think that's like at the rootof it all, you
Leah (53:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um.
It's complex, all thesefeelings, emotions, stories,
vulnerabilities, sorting all ofthat out.
It's not so simple and it takessome skill and strategy and
inquiry and accountability, um,to navigate to the truth and to
(54:10):
kind of peel back some of thoselayers, unfurl these deep seated
core issues.
Then to really figure out how tonavigate them and how to get
your needs met and how to, youknow, have agency and, and be
self-responsible for yourdesires and your needs and your
(54:31):
wants and your truths.
All that shit, fuck
Willow (54:33):
Yeah,
Leah (54:34):
takes.
Take some, you gotta learn somethings
Willow (54:37):
Well, yeah, and I think it also, you gotta learn things
and then you also have to letthe things that you learn
integrate into your nervoussystem and into your being.
You know, it's like, it's, itbecomes such a nuanced practice
to, to be able to, in themoment, track what your nervous
system is doing, track what yourtruth is, be able to come into
(54:59):
your heart, be able to, um.
You know, without a lot ofemotional charge speak that
truth.
And so there, there are just somany pieces to the puzzle that,
um, take time to integrate,especially if you're coming from
an environment or a family orupbringing or something where
there was a lot of just like wereactive communication, yelling
(55:21):
and, um, or, you know, runninginto the other room or whatever
it is.
Just that those, those deeperreactions and patterns.
Um, one of the
Leah (55:30):
Or even non reactions.
I mean, I've got a childhood
Willow (55:33):
into the room.
Leah (55:34):
parents were totally, they give her the silent treatment.
They were upset with her.
They never screamed.
They never yelled.
There wasn't a lot ofpunishment.
The punishment, the punishmentwas, I'm not gonna talk to you
for three days.
Willow (55:45):
Ugh.
That's so
Leah (55:46):
And so like, it looks like, oh, it's not very
upsetting, except you feel thishuge amount of separation.
You know, so it, it can look.
Just because one family'sreactive and another family
isn't, doesn't mean that one ishealthier than the other.
Willow (56:01):
Totally.
Absolutely.
And you know, Leah and I havedone a couple of episodes on,
um, the protective patternsthat, uh, Maya has also studied,
and she referenced that in theepisode she spoke about Lynda
Ceasara.
So I think it's, it's a goodthing to understand and know
these patterns, especially whentalking about communication and
(56:22):
how to communicate with yourpartner when they're in pattern,
when they're in a triggeredstate.
So go check out our episodewith, um, Steven Kessler, and
also we did one on our own aswell.
Um, those are really, reallyimportant for being able to
communicate effectively.
Leah (56:39):
Well, and, and also just understanding your conditioned
wounds and how you reach forsafety.
That, as an adult really isn'tkeeping you safe.
It's just keeping you in patternand yeah, and it, and it
actually doesn't drive youtowards the truth.
Um, it drives you somewhere elsethat's separate from where you
(57:00):
wanna be connected to your lovedones.
Willow (57:02):
Yeah.
And also I will say, you know,it doesn't have to take a long
time, like the integration ofwhat you learn.
You know, if you go do the Voicewith Maya, you're gonna learn
some really powerful stuff realquickly and, um, and you'll, you
get to practice it with otherwomen right away.
So that definitely helps withintegration.
I mean, that is the mostimportant piece of integrating
(57:23):
is to be in practice with whatyou, aha, you know, what you've
realized and learned.
Leah (57:28):
It's the key to the embodiment piece is being able
to practice these new skillsover and over again so that you
have a way to freedom toliberation from the things that
are burdening you and to be ableto process that in a way to
practice new tools.
Then you pick up, oh, thisreally worked for me.
Oh, this is what I need.
(57:49):
This is a ding, ding, ding.
So that when I get triggeredagain like this, I know some
steps that are gonna help me getto that place of understanding
what's the essential, what'sthat vulnerable thing that
really needs to be said.
Just like she illustrated in herstory with the, with the woman
And her dad.
of just like simple, elegant,but it probably wasn't simple
(58:10):
and elegant when she started,you know, processing that
burden.
Like to be able to.
Move that charge in community,practice getting to the heart of
it.
And then, and then from there,having the courage to say what
needs to be said.
You do that, rinse and repeat,and then it becomes how you
operate and live in the world.
(58:30):
And, um, yeah, it's just a good.
It's a good reminder to me thatit has been a long time since I
have been in like a personalgrowth community, really working
on something interpersonal, um,and how valuable it is.
No matter how much work you'vedone, no matter how many
workshops you've attended, nomatter how much personal growth
work you've done, it's stillgood to return and sharpen up
(58:55):
your skills.
Because these conditionedresponses and our triggers and
our safety strategies, they areso much more ingrained.
Then the little bit of time wespend on a technique.
So you kind of have to keep oncoming back and going, oh Yeah.
that's right.
This really works for me
Willow (59:10):
It's a layered process for sure.
All right, cia.
Well, so glad we could have Mayaand you'll hear more of her in
an upcoming episode.
Leah (59:19):
yeah.
And do us a favor, share thisepisode with a woman that, you
know, let's, let's let's doubleup our
Willow (59:25):
the word.
Let's spread the love.
Let's help women express and becontent to speak their truths
without apology.
Leah (59:34):
Nice.
Okay.
Cheers.
Announcer (59:36):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Taxology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments, likesubscribes and suggestions
matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.
What if the most powerful tool for feminine
pleasure has been silenced forcenturies?
Today's guest reveals how thevoice holds the key to unlocking
embodied liberation and why somany women have been
disconnected from this primalpower.
I'm Dr.
Willow Brown.
I'm here with my amazingco-host, Leah Piper for the Sex
(00:27):
Reimagined podcast.
We are so grateful for all yourwonderful likes, shares, and
subscribes.
Keep them coming.
And today we have.
A very special guest, a dearfriend of ours, Maya Kova.
She's a feminine embodimentspecialist and a lead
facilitator at the Tantra NewYork Institute.
We're so excited that Maya'swith us.
(00:48):
She's a sensuality and lovecoach who helps women and
couples create secure andconnected relationships.
She specializes in Authenticrelating and embodied
self-expression.
And she is the creator of voice,which we're gonna be talking a
lot about today.
And we might touch a little biton how she is the lead coach for
(01:09):
the 90 day relationship, butwe're gonna be talking a lot
more about that in anotherepisode with Maya and her
partner.
Leah (01:16):
it is time to tune in, turn on and fall in love with
our friend, our sister, ourcolleague, Maya Kova.
Announcer (01:23):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame-free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.
Leah (01:33):
Welcome Maya.
Maya (01:33):
Thank you so much for such warm welcome, and it's such a
joy to be here with both of you.
I love both of you dearly and.
And our Tantric path definitelyput an impact on my personal
journey.
Leah (01:47):
Yeah, we, we've explored lots of Tantra camps together
and we've danced at otherworkshops that have been really
fabulous, that have contributedto all of our paths.
Maya, I'm really curious, youknow, Willow just introduced
your work with the voice.
And I have watched you work withwomen and been invited on your
platform a couple of times totalk about women's empowerment
(02:07):
and helping women heal, um,emotionally sexually, gain more
skill sets energetically.
Tell me a little bit about yourjourney to feminine empowerment.
You know, what has, what havebeen the obstacles in your life
regarding having a voice and howhave you overcome them?
Maya (02:24):
Hmm.
Thank you.
What a great, uh, question.
In relationships, I woulddisappear.
I would fall in love.
I would disappear in the loveand in the man and, and I love
saying, I love, love.
And yet I had to look at myrelationships and what happens
(02:46):
to my core and my power and mypersonality when I get in close
proximity to a man and startdoing this polarity dance.
And then go into, um, this kindof like blind conditioning of,
um, sacrificing myself andthinking that compromising or
(03:08):
stepping over my desires or mytruth for the sake of
relationship would make me happyin a relationship.
And I had to learn that that's amyth.
And it actually makes me deeplyunhappy.
It, uh, dims my light.
It separates me from my feminineradiance and my feminine
(03:30):
intuition and my femininecreativity and actually make me
resent my partner.
So nobody's winning in thistemplate.
And, um, so I created voice ayear ago, May, 2024.
And created voice because Irealized after I've been working
(03:50):
with women for five years, thatwe cannot embody our femininity
if we cannot say how we feel,what we desire, if we avoid
conflicts, if we fawn inconversations with authority,
any kind of authority, um, likewhat kind of empowerment and
(04:15):
embodiment we talking about.
And then on the other side, um,how we talk because being a
victim, uh, blaming otherpeople, blaming patriarchy in
all the problems that we have isalso not a healthy, empowered
feminine way to thrive.
(04:36):
So I start just seeing thatthere is some disconnect in a
modern feminine feminism wherewe actually don't speak.
We either blow up or tolerate,and I'm like, there needs to be
a different way.
And, and I personally deeplyconnected to the topic, and I'm
(04:57):
a student on the path myselfbecause I know, and I've been
known for avoiding conflicts and
Willow (05:05):
Mm
Maya (05:06):
not saying the truth.
Willow (05:08):
Not saying anything.
Kind of like placating.
Acquiescing.
Yeah.
I think it's so, such a commonthing.
Thing that people learn.
Well, when you get in arelationship, there's gonna be a
lot of compromise, you know?
I mean, there's always gonna besome, but it's not gonna be, it
doesn't have to be a lot, andyou don't have to not speak your
truth.
It is one of the places,whenever I'm doing Somato
(05:29):
emotional release with womenalways.
It's almost like 99% of the timeright here at the, at the throat
chakra, right between the heartand the throat is where they
feel the block.
Maya (05:39):
Yeah, I and I.
Leah (05:41):
Yeah.
Maya (05:42):
I just wanna say Willow, that working with you, uh, I'm
sure contributed intodiscovering and embracing this
and, uh, being on the path withLeah.
I always was amazed by Leahability to say the truth
unapologetically.
So, um, you both definitelycontributed into, um, inspiring
(06:06):
me to diving deeper into thiswork.
Willow (06:10):
Yay.
I love the way the ripple effectripples out.
Now you get to help all thewomen who are coming to you.
It's fantastic.
Leah (06:18):
I think it's interesting, especially when we're with
charismatic, uh, powerful men,um, who are highly competent,
um, and know what they want, howeasy it is to fall into like
this ancient conditioning wherewomen have been sort of trained
(06:38):
from generation to generation toput everyone else first.
And, um, and to be very pleasingbecause if you're pleasing,
that's how you'll get love.
If you're pleasing, that's howthey'll stay.
Um, and so we tend to selfabandon.
In order to keep thatrelationship to feel like we're
on solid ground, even thoughlittle ruptures are happening in
(07:00):
the inside.
And like you said, Maya, thatcan often come out sideways
through like resentment throughthe tone of our voice, through
meltdowns, through mood swings,and I remember being in a
relationship where it was sobased in some of that chaos and
the relationship was soimportant to me that I often,
uh, yeah, totally put myselflast.
(07:22):
Last.
And then, you know, you try tobe agreeable and then I would
have these moments of just whereI would get so overwhelmed and I
would have this blow up and itwould be over this thing that is
so small.
And in inconsequential, and mypartner's going like, what is
your problem?
You're totally overreacting.
And yeah, from the outsidelooking in, it probably looks
like I was overreacting, butthat's because I went months
(07:45):
suppressing speaking up formyself.
And also like when I would speakup for myself, I wouldn't be
understood.
I wouldn't be deeply listenedto.
It was like pulling teeth to getcompassion and understanding to
try to create a change.
And then the worst was beinggaslit on the back end of it.
Now I'm the crazy one becausehere I am overreacting about
(08:07):
something and then you try tohave a voice and try to have a
voice, and it just kind of fellto smitherenes and it took a
while to navigate how to speakup sooner.
How.
Willow (08:18):
I think that's a really good point you're making Leah
around like, you know, I havewomen come to me all the time.
They're like, I amcommunicating.
I am expressing, I am saying,but still needs not being met,
not feeling seen, not feelingacknowledged.
Right.
So then we have to dig deeperand like, well, what, what are
you expressing?
Like, what are you saying?
(08:38):
Does it feel like an attack?
Does it, is it not the rightlanguage for that person?
Is it not, does it not relate totheir core values?
You know what you, you've gottalike learn communication skills.
So I'm curious for you, Maya, onyour journey, like at what.
Point in your, in your pathwhere you're like, okay, this
is, um, like a really crucialand important piece of having a
(09:03):
happy and healthy relationshipthat can sustain itself.
Maya (09:06):
Yeah.
You know, when, um, couple yearsago I asked my friend who has
been married for several yearsof like, what's the most
important thing in a, you know,in a committed relationship?
And at that time I was not in acommitted relationship and she
told me.
Conversations, communication,the ability to sit down and talk
about your issues.
(09:27):
And I heard that answer and inmy head I was like, boring.
Leah (09:31):
Right, totally.
Maya (09:34):
Um.
Willow (09:35):
Yeah.
Maya (09:35):
then after I've been in a committed relationship, I
realized how deeply importantthat is to, um, be able with
kindness, compassion, andvulnerability to talk about
uncomfortable things andcompletely erase the mentality.
(10:01):
I am right and you are wrong.
And that's, let's be honest,that's like the highest level of
mastery.
Like, I'm not there.
I can have a good day where I'mthere and I can have a bad day
where I'm right and he's wrong.
Right?
So, uh, but I'm realizing thevalue of that because when I can
(10:24):
sit with your pain and not makeyou wrong for how you handle it,
that's intimacy.
That's intimacy.
Even more than eye gazing.
I know we love Tantra andholding hands and eye gazing.
But when we talk about committedrelationships and what actually
creates safety is that I'm notgonna be punished when I fuck up
(10:45):
and I'm not gonna punish youwhen you not doing something
that I desire.
Leah (10:51):
Yeah, I,
Willow (10:52):
Leo.
always says, permission to fuckup.
Permission to get it wrong.
Leah (10:55):
yeah.
Permission to be human.
Willow (10:57):
Yeah.
Leah (10:58):
Um, you know, Alison Armstrong has a saying that I
really took to heart, which iswhat if no one's misbehaving?
Willow (11:04):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (11:05):
What if they have a good reason for how they're reacting
and when you can come from aplace of like.
Oh, that's right.
We're all just, we're all justresponding from our
conditioning, which has takendecades.
And everything that's happenedto us is leading up to this
reaction and, and no one's doinganything wrong.
(11:25):
They're, again, permission to behuman.
And when you kind of stamp backfrom this, like, what if I'm
treating this person as ifthey're not misbehaving, then
our tone changes, right?
Then the conversation has achance to shift in our ability
to listen.
How do you help people becomebetter listeners, Maya?
Maya (11:43):
Uh, I always teach, uh, listen with your whole body.
Don't listen with your head,especially as a woman.
Listen with your body and listenwith your heart.
And active listening actuallybegins with you noticing the
tension in your shoulders.
And then taking a breath ordropping your shoulders,
relaxing your body.
(12:05):
And uh, I totally get it thatsometimes it's so hard when,
when somebody will love, nomatter who that is, a man, a
child, a parent, a dear friend,uh, they upset with us, right?
It's kind of like automaticallywe take it personally and it
requires just a wisdom to.
Flip into different state oflike, oh, they are hurting.
(12:28):
My task is to meet them in theirpain, and it's not about me.
Like, I don't have to take thaton.
Right?
I'm meeting them there and Iwant to just acknowledge and
active listening is, um, right.
It's a coaching tool.
Why it works, because when Ireflect what you said, when I
(12:48):
say Yes, that sucks.
That's hard.
That's unfair.
It does this magic to thenervous system where you
suddenly don't have to be angryand guarded it immediate.
It can shift how you feel in aconversation in a second, just
simply acknowledging that theyare hurting.
(13:09):
But what we usually do in aconversation, we say what you
feel is wrong?
Uh, you making a big deal out ofit, or we start defending
ourselves.
And the problem with.
Leah (13:20):
Well, you did this.
Willow (13:22):
Mm-hmm.
Maya (13:23):
Yeah, and defending The problem with defending is when
we defend ourselves, it's likewe agreeing that it's wrong,
that there's a problem, right?
Versus when we reflecting howthey feel.
It creates an opportunity,right?
For the nervous system startsshifting into your kind of like
(13:44):
relaxing, right?
Releasing and getting out ofthat survival mode.
Then actually you can startremembering that like, oh yeah,
it's not my enemy, or it's notmy, I don't know, abuser or
somebody I'm healing traumawith.
This is actually my, my, mypartner.
Leah (14:02):
I think also it gives them a chance to hear themselves when
you can repeat back to them whatyou're understanding about what
they're saying, you know, andfollow up with like, do I have
that right?
Then they can clarify theirfeelings.
They can give you moreinformation.
Uh, they can correct it if it'snot quite what it is, and they
(14:24):
can hear themselves, and I thinkthen they can understand
themselves better as well.
Maya (14:29):
I also have to say that, so what brought me into this
work is just realizing that Ineed to become better at, uh,
active listening when conflicthappens, and I need to master to
be more vulnerable.
And I also need to learn tostand up for myself.
Willow (14:51):
What does that mean to you to be more vulnerable?
Like, okay, so we know activelistening is you say something I
repeat back to you what I heardyou say so that we're on the
same page and, and then theconversation goes on from there.
But what's this vulnerability
Maya (15:07):
So to me, in a relationship, vulnerability is
conversation.
Underneath the conversation I.
Is what Leah said, right?
We're we start fighting aboutsomething so simple, I don't
know, misplaced item, garbagebag, something.
There is another conversationshap happening underneath that
(15:27):
conversation and theconversation is, I miss you, or
I feel being ignored, or I'mafraid that I'm disappointing
you.
And that is important to namethat.
'cause the moment you name thatit brings you, it gi at least it
gives you opportunity to starttalking from the heart and not
(15:50):
from the story.
'Cause we all have stories abouthow people.
Let us down and what went wrong,I think in a relationship
leading from the heart is socrucial, and yet it's so
challenging.
Willow (16:07):
Hmm.
I love what you're saying herebecause we were just on a
podcast yesterday talking, and Iwas saying every emotion that
you feel is rooted in love,because you wouldn't have the
feeling of frustrated or angryor shut down or ignored.
You wouldn't have a reaction tothat if you didn't have care, if
(16:27):
you didn't have love.
Right.
So it comes back down to love.
So this is beautiful.
What you're saying is like.
Look, if we're in this squabble,it's because underneath it all,
I, I want more of you.
I miss you.
I love you.
I care about you.
Leah (16:42):
Yeah.
This matters to me.
You matter to me.
I matter to me.
Willow (16:45):
exactly.
Mm-hmm.
Leah (16:48):
So how do you help people get underneath, right?
They're, they're presenting thestory.
How do you help them start toask themselves the question,
what am I, what's underneath allof this?
What's really going on?
What's the vulnerability that Ineed to sort of now tap into and
get underneath the story as you
Maya (17:08):
so when I started leading voice.
At the beginning when I wasready for the calls, and it's
not a program, it's literally aspace where women.
The intention is for women tocome in and practice
communication, practice sayingtheir truth.
So at the beginning I was like,okay, we're gonna do this prompt
and we're gonna do thistechnique and we're gonna do
(17:29):
this.
Like you say, you know, like howyou feel and then what you need.
And then I realized thatactually none of that matters.
What really matters is for youas a woman.
Your truth.
And in order for you to embodyyour truth, you need to find it
within.
You need to actually identifywhat is your truth.
(17:52):
And I also noticed that thenwomen would come to, uh, the
voice classes and we would doshares.
They would start talking a lotabout the stories, who did what,
and like, all of that.
And, and I would pause them,right?
And I'd be like, that's not whatwe interested in.
Doesn't matter.
I'd close your eyes, please,your hands on your heart.
(18:13):
Take a deep breath, right?
Like, what do you feel?
What's your truth?
What's your unfiltered truththat you may be never said?
Your entire life, like what'sthat un unfiltered truth.
Willow (18:27):
It is so healing.
Maya (18:28):
because you will learn techniques, but none of the
techniques is gonna work whenyou feel uncomfortable in your
truth, when you not approvingyour truth, where you ashamed to
be too much or to take spacewhere,'cause I saw it very
often, right?
In Tantra, we talked so muchabout desire.
(18:50):
But the truth is, even if Iidentified my desire.
I still feel that I'm too muchasking for it.
It's not gonna land.
You can learn the best, youknow, communication technique
and try to act it out, but if,if there's no space in your body
to receive it.
You're not gonna get it,something will happen that, that
(19:13):
right w will, will not, uh, willnot be possible for you to
receive.
So what I'm deeply realizing isthat, um, the work that we need
to do as women is to say painfuland uncomfortable truth.
Right?
Which.
Leah (19:30):
Can you, can you give an example?
Can you tell a story either of awoman that you've helped or a
story from your own life thatillustrates this?
Maya (19:40):
Yeah, I can, I can, uh, give two stories.
One story is of a client.
Um, she had a very complexrelationship with her dad and,
and every time she would go
Leah (19:55):
I like most of us.
Maya (19:57):
I know, I know.
I'm like, yeah, every time she'dgo and visit, like he would just
dismiss, like he would notlisten into what she's saying or
he, he would make like fun thatshe's, and she's an artist.
Like he would make fun, youknow, something artistic and
call it sappy or whatever.
So she felt extremely, um, likedismissed and basically, you
(20:19):
know, denied in her existence.
Right?
That feeling of like, I neverenough and something's wrong
with me.
And she's been in voice andwe've been working through
different, um, right techniques,modalities, uh, on speaking up
and, and holding your truth.
And when she went, I think itwas Thanksgiving to visit them
(20:41):
and he picked her up and she satin the car.
Dad, I miss you.
And that's it, and nothing else.
And he get uncomfortable andchange the conversation, ladi
da.
And then again, um, during thattime, like he dismissed her and
(21:01):
instead of getting defensive orbeing upset, she said what she
felt in a heart.
She said like, oh, like itreally hurts me that you cannot
celebrate this achievement thatI just had at my job.
And she left it at that.
And the difference is that shedidn't feel bad about herself.
(21:22):
Like she was holding who she is,what she's doing in the world.
And she was acknowledging right,the little girl, the hurt of not
being seen.
So she left.
Then she came back for Christmasand he met her at the airport
and gave her a warmest hug andsaid to her something sweet of
(21:44):
like, I'm so glad you here, andwe're so happy to see you.
And she was in absolute awebecause that was the, like the
first time she saw an openingfor a connection from him.
And, and that's the illustrationof, right, like in her case,
instead of making him wrong ortrying to fix the relationship,
(22:06):
she just stayed in her fullness.
She didn't.
Deflated for the first time whenshe felt, um, attacked right.
Or criticized by him.
And that is, um, quite a big,like, I feel like that's like a,
an incredible week victory forher because as women, we
Willow (22:26):
Absolutely.
Leah (22:26):
that's a beautiful example.
Willow (22:28):
really exemplifies what you, what you said earlier as
like com communicating, beingvulnerable and standing in your
power at the same time.
You know, it's, there's a, whatthere is is there's a, a lack of
apology in it, right?
She's not apologetic for hertruth or the way that she's
feeling, and in what that doesis it takes out emotional charge
(22:50):
and it takes out aggressiveenergy or, or, or, you know, you
are wrong because you're notapproving of my,
Leah (22:57):
Yeah, like
Willow (22:59):
ownership of what you're actually experiencing
emotionally.
Leah (23:03):
It takes, it's got elegance to it.
But also I can see how importantbeing maybe in a group or
working with a coach to likeprocess this to get to it.
So you can bottom line it,especially with relationships
with men.
Um, because what's so elegant issimply, you know, I'm sad that
you can't celebrate myaccomplishments.
(23:24):
You know, she's not blaming,she's not defending, she's
speaking an I statement.
She's communicating very simply.
I'm sad and this is why.
And then, you know, you just,you can just gently leave it on
the table.
I.
And oftentimes I love that, likethere's this quietness, right?
It's like, it's kind of an ohshit moment of like, you can't
(23:44):
really argue when somebody saysthey feel sad, you know?
Like, how are you gonna, youknow, talk them out of that.
I guess you could say, well, youshouldn't feel that way.
But, um, to have that, thatpregnant pause afterward so that
someone can kind of, oh.
Let me just be with that.
And then, yeah, and then itinspires you actually to maybe
(24:06):
treat a situation differentlywhen you're on the receiving end
of that communication.
Hopefully.
Maya (24:10):
Yeah.
Yeah, and right and the choicealways by the other person and
you know, by the amount of workthat they have done and where
they're at.
I think in that case it was veryhelpful that she left for
another month and that was kindof like the space For him to
process and to sit.
Uh, but she, right, like she wasvulnerable for the first time.
(24:33):
Not defensive, not upset, nothurt.
She was just vulnerable.
And I think this is the masterythat we need to, uh, acquire as
women.
How can I hold my feelings andown my feelings and calmly state
them?
Without making the other personwrong.
'cause especially in a personalrelationships, right?
(24:55):
Like we have so manyexpectations for our partner,
and then ideas that they need toheal all our childhood wounds as
well and reparent us.
And when we bring that to thetable, the other person just
feel the heaviness of theburden.
Willow (25:10):
Yeah, it's a lot of
Maya (25:10):
A lot of
Leah (25:11):
Yeah.
Willow (25:12):
that's not gonna make for a playful, fun, joyful
relationship.
There is, there is a lot of thatgoing on though.
I think, um, you know, peoplelooking to be saved by another
Leah (25:23):
Well, I think it's human nature too.
I mean, you're not gonna be in along-term relationship and not
project your childhood ontothem.
You're not.
You're gonna project your mommyissues and your daddy issues.
It's the nature and the giftactually, I think, of being in
partnership.
I am always going to hold thepost of Matt's mom.
When he is unconscious and he'sstuck in pattern and he doesn't
(25:47):
see me, he sees his mom and hisreactions to the feminine
through me as a reaction towhere his conditioned experience
first experienced women.
And I think when you can justacknowledge that, like that's
okay.
Sometimes it's my job to go, oh,that's right.
He doesn't see me.
He is in the archetypical womanwound.
(26:07):
Mother wound.
And that's a ding, ding, ding togo.
Let me just take a step back.
Like you said my, let me justsee where he is hurting.
He's in a place where he doesn'ttrust women and he has a good
reason to feel that way.
And it's okay that he feels thatway with me right now.
Then I just have to step backand just sort of acknowledge
that like I get it.
(26:28):
This is hard to trust right now.
Maya (26:30):
Yeah.
Oof.
Right?
Leah (26:32):
Yeah.
And I can also say, and I feelsad about that.
Willow (26:37):
And how does Matt respond when you do that?
Does it knock him out a pattern?
Leah (26:41):
well,'cause I'm usually feeling, um, yeah, we take a
little bit of space.
Sometimes I go have a cry bymyself and I don't expect him to
take care of me in that crybecause I know he can't.
When that cry happens, heactually thinks he's being
manipulated.
So I just know that that's atrigger for him and it's
something he doesn't trust.
So I just go and have a cry bymyself.
(27:03):
I'm a, I can do that, and thenhe might, he may be able to
sense it and then he'll come inand he'll usually, you know, go.
Let's do a redo or something.
And then we, we've come to, we,we both process in our own
corners and then we, we cometowards each other with more
softness and he'll do the samewith me.
(27:24):
You know, He'll get the feeling,oh, Leah's taking, Leah's
filling up all the space in thisroom right now.
There's no more oxygen.
It's all of Leah's intensity.
Because that's how my systemreacts when I'm in that
childhood wound.
He's, he knows that now.
I mean, you spend enough timewith each other.
Hopefully you can have thesekinds of conversations where
it's like, Hey, this is where Igo when I'm triggered.
(27:45):
And it reminds me of this fromthe past.
And I always tell people, like,tell your partner what you need
to come back to love when youfind yourself separate.
What helps, what works?
And so one of the things thatMatt's learned about me is just
to go, wow, you're reallyhurting right now.
I really feel you hurting rightnow.
(28:06):
And I'm like, that's like alwaysthe best pattern interrupt for
me.
I'm like, I'm, I really amhurting right now because the
part of me I hate the most isthe one that gets intense and
can't control it.
So when he acknowledges how hardthat is for me, then there's a
place for me to drop my dukes asI like to call him.
It's like I'm no longer here to,to fight and defend because he
(28:27):
just acknowledged that I'm inthat place that is so painful.
'cause I'm so afraid that myreaction is gonna create a big
mess.
So that's like my big story, butthat's my dad reacting my whole
childhood.
You know, I adopted that, thatthat is getting better and
better, but it's probably nevergonna go away.
You know, like I can't just sayI'm gonna be this perfect person
(28:48):
that no longer is intense.
That's just not possible.
So to have people who love mesee that and go, it's okay.
Because I, I often feel likedeep down it's not okay.
Like I really am not allowed tobe that way in the world and no
one will love me if I keep itup.
So it's a really squishy thingwe do in relationship.
We
Willow (29:08):
still love
Leah (29:09):
over and over.
Thank you.
Willow (29:11):
do it with us too.
Maya (29:12):
Yeah,
Leah (29:13):
Um, so, you know, I think, yeah, I think that's getting
underneath to like thevulnerable thing and just
accepting it's okay, we're gonnaproject our mommy daddy stuff.
Can we see it eventually?
You know, and then just be therefor it.
Maya (29:28):
And you know what I also have to say is you have to
recognize on this path, right,if you're stepping into the path
of owning your truth and, um,living with other people from
the place of authenticity, um,being honest and admitting, oh,
I need to learn some skills.
(29:49):
I need to learn some resilience.
I need to learn some positivepsychology.
I need to learn some mindset.
I need to learn somevulnerability, right?
And, and, and if you with apartner where, right, like you
clash us together, then it's aninvitation for both of you.
Hey, let's go and let's learn alittle bit more.
Let's start fighting ordisagreeing in a different way.
(30:11):
Let's educate ourselves.
'cause otherwise you learnsomething with your parents,
it's been 40, 50 years and youcontinue doing this.
Like, what are you gonna do itfor the rest of your life?
Like, come on, let's upgrade howwe talk about ouchie stuff so it
can get more juicier and morefun.
Um.
(30:32):
And I think another piece is forwomen, it's so important to
start standing up for yourselfbecause for me, Leah is
different.
I grew up in a household where Ifelt that the moment there's a
conflict, I actually need to goand meet the other person to
bring them back in connection.
And in doing that, what I do, Istep over my hurt, I step over
(30:56):
my needs.
I had to kind of
Leah (30:59):
I, I had the same habit.
Yeah.
Maya (31:02):
I
Willow (31:02):
guys both run the merging pattern, I
Leah (31:05):
yeah, that takes a minute to undo.
Is to go, okay, I'm not gonnacome rescue and sacrifice myself
and always be the peacemaker.
Yeah.
Willow (31:13):
Yeah.
Maya (31:13):
And I think for women, the hardest thing for us is to
practice saying no.
And I see this a lot in a 90 dayrelationship experiment.
Um, where, right, like you cando anything you want with your
partner and when you get arandom match, if you don't wanna
be matched with them, just.
Tell them, and even sometimesfor women to say that to a man
(31:36):
or to say no to his invitation,that's like a major thing.
They've never done it in theirentire lives.
And they're doing it for thefirst time in this 90 day
relationships and theypracticing with a more conscious
man who not gonna take thatpersonally.
Maybe even tell them, thank youfor taking care of yourself.
And then it's like, what didjust happen?
Willow (31:59):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (32:00):
So you live in community and I'm really curious, like how
do you do this with yourhousemates?
You know, because I know youguys really do practice
consciously speaking your truth,naming your desires, and like
working with basically consciousconfrontation, I think.
Is that what, I don't know ifyou would use that language.
Maya (32:19):
living in community, it's definitely a test for that
because you can't stayresentful.
You can't just dismiss a person,right?
You can't go into your typicalpatterns.
So there's more, uh, opportunityto practice.
Um, coming back to the heartspace, talking from the heart
(32:42):
and practicing, saying thingsunderneath.
Right.
Like, again, I miss you.
I feel like you avoid me.
I feel that I'm doing somethingwrong around you.
Um, and, and that vulnerability,as we know, always brings, um,
uh, it's a bridge, right?
It's a bridge that then gives usopportunity to come closer.
(33:03):
And I think just realizing thatit's, it's like, it's so
interesting.
You just suddenly see from theoutside of like, why am I
holding onto this?
Like, life is so much moreabundant, rich, excited.
Like, why am I holding on that?
You know, somebody puts dishesto the left side of a rack and
not do the, you know, it's like,like why?
(33:26):
Um, and, and also learning forme, particularly learning to
speak up, learning to ask forsomething, learning to maybe
offer an adjustment, but in away that, again, I don't have a
charge, right?
I don't come to this as like, ohmy God, you're so inconvenient.
Uh, or I'm upset aboutwhatever's going on in my life,
so let me just project it on.
(33:46):
You just kind of like be mindfulof like, okay, can I give an
adjustment and can I go andattend to my emotions.
Leah (33:54):
Yeah.
'cause I think I'm, I thinkstanding up for yourself can be
tricky because some people canhear, oh, stand up for yourself.
And that means you get, you get.
All the rights to complain aboutall the things you're unhappy
about with the expectation thatsomeone's gonna change and make
you feel better.
You know?
So can you give somedistinctions?
Like where have you stood up foryourself in, in areas where like
(34:15):
it really mattered and it waslike hard to do?
Maya (34:19):
Uh, definitely in living in community, uh, made me see
the pattern that I have, that ifsomething is done not right, not
the way I think I'm, I'mparticularly very sensitive to
being considerate.
Like if somebody is not beingconsiderate in my world, I had
(34:40):
to see what I do.
I shut down.
I, but I would not say it.
I just shut down.
I talk to them less.
I avoid them I'm trying to beout of the house more, but I'm
not saying the thing.
And living in community hashelped me realize that that's
very hard.
(35:01):
Can I just say the thing, um, inthe moment?
Can I, can I say the adjustment?
Um, so like, that really helpedme to see that I shut down and I
start separating.
And also when I do that, itdoesn't help my nervous system
to feel considered'cause I'misolating myself.
(35:23):
So who's responsible for that?
Me.
Leah (35:27):
That's a really good distinction.
You know, audience, uh, willcertainly be more observant of
this in my life is, okay, oh,I'm shutting down.
I'm pulling away.
I'm now avoiding connection.
I'm choosing isolation so that Ican avoid a confrontation.
It's like this.
I'm gonna pull myself out.
(35:48):
And that's a good ding, ding,ding, right of going, oh, that's
right, Maya said that's a sign.
Willow (35:54):
Yeah, that's
Leah (35:55):
what do I need to find?
What do I need to say?
Willow (35:58):
that's a form of protection, right?
It's a form of not getting hurtfurther.
Um, but it's also creates ablock to love and connection.
Maya (36:07):
Yeah.
And I love, I would say that Ifollow religiously in my work,
the Rumi quote, that your taskis not to find love, but to
remove all the barriers aroundlove that you build and created.
And like, that's kinda mymission for myself and in
supporting, uh, people.
And with women, I want, like, Ireally want women to be
(36:31):
confident in their voice and intheir truth, and then be able to
say it right.
Where I honoring my emotions,I'm honoring my needs and I'm
not leaking all over.
I'm not in my victim hood andI'm not making you wrong or an
enemy.
'Cause when we talk from thatplace with man, they're not
(36:51):
gonna hear us.
They get defensive'cause man'spsychology, right man.
They want to win with women,they want to be praised by how
they're showing up.
And depending on the amount ofwork they have done, when that's
not happening, they might getdismissive, aggressive, they
might shut down.
And again, that doesn't bring usthat love and play and polarity
Leah (37:16):
Right.
Just more separation.
Maya (37:17):
and more separation.
Yeah.
And one thing I wanna say, whatdifferent about voice is that,
again, it's not a program, it'sliterally a lab.
Where every week you learndifferent particular, um, tool
about embodiment orcommunication.
Like we talk about conflict, sayno assumptions, different mental
patterns.
Then you practice for two weekswith a different woman.
(37:41):
So you practice saying things.
We do a lot of practicing evenwith each other because that
trains and teaches your, uh,mind and your body that I'm not
gonna die when I say this.
And I can also notice what'sgoing on and how people respond
to me.
Right.
And, and when it comes tocommunication, I think the
(38:02):
physical experience of sayingsomething out loud, like even in
the mirror creates like rewiresyour nervous system, so then you
can say it to your boss, to yourmom, to your partner with
Leah (38:17):
Well, it helps remove the charge
Maya (38:19):
Yeah.
100%.
Leah (38:20):
it, it diminishes you, process it so that when you can
actually say it to the person,you're connected to yourself.
You're not stuck in the patternwhere it comes out with all this
charge, which is usually whatpeople are reacting to when they
get defensive anyways.
It's like they're noticing thelook, the tone, you know, the,
the charge underneath all thewords, which
Willow (38:41):
actually see the, the pupils dilate when somebody's
amygdala starts to fire.
God.
There was this great book, Ican't remember the name of it
now, but it, it was, I hadcreated a whole flow chart out
of it to work with couples, likefirst look at their eye, like,
are their pupils dilating?
You know, to read what'shappening in the brain.
You can see it through thefacial expression, you know,
(39:03):
around the tightness around,does the mouth narrow?
Do the eyes narrow?
Like all these different thingsthat we can see.
That we can communicate, use forcommunication that are
nonverbal.
And I'm, I'm, as I'm listeningto you talk about the voice, my,
uh, talk about voice.
Maya, I am, um, hearing like somany different modalities kind
(39:24):
of woven in, like nonviolentcommunication, positive
psychology, um, what, what aresome of the other, uh, sort of
modalities that you're weavingtogether in
Maya (39:35):
Tantra, of course.
Uh, ident identifying desires.
Uh, pleasure list.
Leah, the first exercise that Ilearned from you for cultivating
more pleasure, Um, embodiment,uh, and energy work that, uh,
I've done with Lydia Ceasara,how to Feel yourself, how to
(39:55):
Hold your Boundaries, concept ofBoundaries, concept of your
energetic space, uh, concept ofawareness.
Because conversation you, so,right.
Um, uh, Willow conversationstarts not when you open your
mouth.
It kind of starts when you enterthe room.
So how you enter the room
Willow (40:13):
You're gonna read
Leah (40:14):
And when you leave the room
Willow (40:16):
energy.
Yeah,
Maya (40:17):
yeah.
Right.
And, and, and getting from thementality of.
I need to be right to thementality of like, what is it
that I'm gonna create?
And to me, for women, that's ourgift.
But that's also in a way ourlike biggest responsibility
because, and I saw this with mypartner.
(40:38):
When we just moved in togetherand there was like a lot of kind
of like clashing of space anddifferent things that we need.
Um, and when I would like judgehim silently and be like upset
with him, he would respond moreaggressively to me.
But when I soften into my heartand remember that I love him, he
(40:59):
would like suddenly come andgive me hugs and kisses or like,
hold me at night and, and he andI saw like, oh my God.
Like he responds to how I feel.
So that what a responsibility Ihave in this relationship in a
way, right?
That I'm bringing so much likeemotional, uh, heart in it.
Leah (41:22):
Yeah.
Right.
It's like when you get morereal, it invokes someone's
generosity.
It's like, it's all like thatshift of like when you get
softer, they get softer.
Willow (41:33):
totally.
You start to see like the magicthat's possible when you, um,
when you drop back into yourcar.
And it's not just withinintimate relationships, it's
within all relationships.
If you're struggling with yourboss or you're struggling with
your housemate, or you'restruggling with a friend or
whatever it is.
It's like coming back to love.
How quickly can you, can youturn your attention back to
(41:57):
what's at the root of it all,which is that you love and care
about that person.
And Maya, you had, you gave usthat one beautiful example, but
you'd said you had two.
So I'm still
Leah (42:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Willow (42:08):
at that example.
Number two, do you remember whatit is?
Maya (42:11):
yeah.
The second one was about, uh, myrelationship with my partner.
When we start practicing, uh,like we agreeing ahead of time
that we need to have anuncomfortable conversation on a
particular topic so both of uscan mentally get ready to that.
Uh, we're still working onagreement not to discuss stuff
(42:33):
when we triggered.
Sometimes it works, sometimes itdoesn't.
But, you know, um, on a gooddays, right, we agree that like,
okay, we're gonna talk onTuesday.
So you prepare for theconversation, I prepare for the
conversation, and then when wecome to a conversation, we
practicing that.
When I'm sharing and when I'mtalking, I want you to come like
(42:53):
energetically and sit next tome.
So you not listening me fromyour standpoint with your.
Excuses and your philosophy oflife.
You actually like coming andsitting next to me, right?
And you listening it, right?
Like kind of like trying to putyourself into my shoes and I do
(43:14):
the same thing, and theconversation goes much slower.
And the energy and emotions aremore grounded and more lower,
and then it's so much moreeasier to be like, oh, this is
what you need.
Of course, right?
Like there is so much, um, roomto right, like to actually start
(43:37):
finding and building the bridgesto come back together.
However, right?
Like, to be realistic, what Iwant to say it is our personal
responsibility to deal with ouremotions on our own.
And I'm really building aculture in our relationship of
not dumping stuff on each otherand not being punching bags.
(44:00):
'Cause that's like it leads.
To separation and nothing else.
Like it doesn't do anything.
Yeah.
Like, and, and I, and I, and Iget what Leah says, that of
course we're gonna project, likeof course we're gonna project
certain things.
Uh, and it's like, okay, can Ijust be mindful of that and
bring myself,
Leah (44:19):
Can I own that in the moment?
I can say, oh my God, I know I'mprojecting all over you and I
know this isn't you.
I know this is from the past,but God dammit, here it's,
Maya (44:27):
Yeah.
Leah (44:29):
yeah, because then you're at least owning it and that
helps the other person kind ofhold the bucket on occasion.
Maya (44:34):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (44:35):
I also like what you said about like sitting next to each
other, Matt's always having toremind me, look, we're, we're
not gonna face off on eachother.
If I'm the problem or you're theproblem, let's sit next to each
other.
So we face the problem
Maya (44:48):
Mm-hmm.
Willow (44:48):
Yeah.
like you're on the same team.
Leah (44:50):
Problem with the other person.
Yeah.
And uh, that's, yeah.
That's
Willow (44:54):
You know, I've, I've, I am thinking of a, a little
tactic too, which is like, toname your team, like, what is
the name of the two of you as ateam.
So that can be really useful in
Leah (45:05):
I like that.
Maya (45:06):
I
Willow (45:06):
where you're always, uh, against each other and always at
odds with each other.
It's like, well, let's, let'sget on the same team.
What, what,
Leah (45:15):
I love that.
Willow.
You know, something else aboutthis conversation reminds me of
what Byron Katie often says, um,which is, can you speak the
truth, at the risk of notgetting love, not getting
approval, and not gettingappreciation for sharing what
you need to share?
(45:36):
And that always gives me courageto say the hard thing, if I can
remind myself that this isimportant, and it's okay if I
don't get those things that Ihope I'll get, because don't we
most want to get loveappreciation and, um, an
affirmation for this thing thatwe say, like we want the world
(45:58):
to recognize it and sometimesother people can't.
And can we be okay?
Can we actually just be happywith the fact that we said it
out loud?
Willow (46:05):
I am imagining some of our listeners might be sitting
there thinking, okay, but how doI know when it's really
important to say versus this isreally not that big of a deal
and I could sweep it under therug?
Because when you're in a, on apath of personal development and
personal growth and evolution,you know, there's.
(46:26):
There's old pattern of like, oh,it's not that big of a deal.
I'll just hold it inside.
I'll, I'll handle it myself.
I won't speak up about it.
That's, but that could be just ablock to your evolution versus
like, is it really a big deal?
So Maya, how do you coachpeople?
How do you guide people onfiguring out the difference
Leah (46:45):
Yeah.
I wanna add to the nuance ofwhat you're saying, Willow, for
you to address Maya because.
Like we're also, it's like a,sometimes it's a balancing act.
It's like, okay, here's thisthing and I have some emotions
about it, so I need to goprocess the emotions by myself
so then I can have theconversation.
And so I, and like.
I know for me, I say that in myhead, but then I just end up
(47:06):
suppressing the emotions andnever get to the part where it's
like, oh yeah, I have to processthis thing so that I can still
have that conversation.
It, it gets a little,'causewe're like straddling both
sides.
It's like how do we know it'simportant enough to bring up
versus the other part that'sjust like, okay, and now I just
have a laundry list all thetime.
Do I have to voice everything?
Maya (47:29):
Yeah, I think that number one, the truthful answer is you
gonna learn.
You gonna learn.
Right.
You, uh, by bringing things up,you're gonna learn what's
important, what's actually notimportant, and you're gonna
learn, distinguish is thereactually a conversation
underneath the conversation,right?
Like is the small thing isactually about, again, something
(47:51):
bigger where I don't feelacknowledged or I don't feel,
uh, appreciated, or I just missmy partner and I'm craving more
connection.
Um, that's one piece of it.
The other piece of it is torecognize where I need to start
working and expanding myemotional palate.
(48:13):
I had where I need to go andmaybe learn different tools to
process where I need to justhave a discipline and start,
grow my capacity to be groundedeven when things are shaky or
when I'm irritated by mypartner.
Right.
Can I, and to me it's all comesdown to cultivating the, um self
(48:37):
of sense in terms of stayingcentered in me.
'cause if I'm safe withinmyself, if I know how to give
myself my own acknowledgement,if I'm offering myself, I'm
offering myself compassion, thenmy capacity to not receive it
from a partner growth.
I'm not saying that.
I'm gonna be in a relationshipwhere it's not available,
(48:58):
period.
Right?
That's a red flag, but I'm notgonna collapse necessarily, or
I'm not gonna right.
Like, go on a much more dramaticride.
And I, I ultimately think that,um, to thrive in life, it.
Doesn't mean to get lucky.
It doesn't mean to, uh, be veryrigid and have systems.
(49:22):
It really starts with growingyour capacity to hold the
discomfort without collapsing,right?
Leah (49:29):
I really like what you're saying there and I think too,
like sometimes when you, whenyou have a safe place to like
process a little bit and hearyourself, you can also come to
realize, oh, the adjustment'sjust in me.
I.
I don't, I don't actually needto ask for anything here.
I just needed to kind of sortout on the inside how I really
feel about this, and turns outthe adjustment was in me all
(49:52):
along.
I don't thi this.
And then you feel better and youmake you, you make the
calibration and like the, youcan avoid.
And not from a place ofunhealthy avoidance.
It's from a place of going, oh,I resolved this inside of
myself.
The charge has dropped.
Maya (50:09):
The charges
Leah (50:09):
Turns out I just needed to hear this from me.
This is really about therelationship to myself and you
need sometimes to bounce thatoff of someone so you can hear
it and feel it and come to thatconclusion.
I think too, like self-coachinghelps, like learning some
self-coaching strategies so thatyou can also talk back to the
thought and have someself-inquiry, I think is also
(50:32):
really useful.
Maya (50:33):
and I, right, like being, um, I have one year of voice,
which I'm like, oh my God, I didit.
Um, and it's been prettychallenging year for myself, but
like showing up for those calls,practicing myself was extremely
helpful.
What I'm realizing is you gonnaown your voice as a woman when
you are self-centered woman.
(50:54):
In a good sense, right?
What it means is I am groundedin me.
I'm centered in me.
I'm not like somewhere else,right?
My attention is not on 10 otherpeople.
My attention starts from me andI'm calibrating what is it that
I'm available for?
Um, and.
Yeah.
And, and that's right.
(51:15):
That's the embodiment.
That's kind of, I'm feelingmyself before I'm saying yes to
things, and when I say no, Idon't feel guilty because I'm
calibrating.
Don't have capacity.
Love.
You don't have capacity.
Leah (51:29):
Right, right.
Well, I know, um, Maya, thatyou've got a free gift for our
audience.
I'd love for you to share whatthat is and also how can people
sign up to experience the voiceand, and work with you.
Maya (51:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I am sharing a link to signup for the voice, um, and you
can technically join anytime Ido.
Open like for a public and dolike public calls twice per year
for voice.
But you can join voice anytimeit's ongoing, uh, experience.
And all the recordings ofprevious calls are available and
(52:04):
we're gonna welcome you with alot of love and onboard you.
Um, and as for a free gift, Iwant to offer a free gift based
on everything we talked today.
I wanna offer a free gift as a,uh, Tantric breath work where
you do a beautiful, uh,breathing exercise where you
contract your pelvic musclesthat actually helps you center
(52:27):
yourself because this is yourinternal muscles.
So you literally start feelingyour body and bringing your
whole attention and awareness toyou.
And that's, uh, a deliciouspractice that, uh, teaches you
to shift your focus fromeverything else into what's
happening in my body.
Willow (52:48):
I love that.
Leah (52:49):
Love it.
Willow (52:50):
It's gonna be so valuable.
Thank you so much for
Maya (52:53):
Yeah.
Willow (52:53):
generous.
Leah (52:55):
Well, we can't wait to be back soon.
Yes,
Willow (52:58):
we're gonna talk to you next with your partner guy
talking about the 90 dayrelationship, and uh, we look
forward to more convo then.
Leah (53:07):
yes.
Congratulations on your one yearanniversary.
May there be many years, manyseasons to come and, uh,
everybody go check out MayaKova.
Love, love, love.
Maya (53:17):
Thank you so much.
Leah (53:19):
Oh, and y'all don't, the episode's not actually over.
We still have a dish, so staytuned.
'cause Willow and I are up next.
Announcer (53:28):
Now our favorite part, the dish.
Willow (53:32):
I love Maya.
She's such a sweetheart.
And, um, yeah, getting women tospeak up and to express and to
not be in apology about what'strue for them, but to actually
come to terms with their truth.
I think that's like at the rootof it all, you
Leah (53:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um.
It's complex, all thesefeelings, emotions, stories,
vulnerabilities, sorting all ofthat out.
It's not so simple and it takessome skill and strategy and
inquiry and accountability, um,to navigate to the truth and to
(54:10):
kind of peel back some of thoselayers, unfurl these deep seated
core issues.
Then to really figure out how tonavigate them and how to get
your needs met and how to, youknow, have agency and, and be
self-responsible for yourdesires and your needs and your
(54:31):
wants and your truths.
All that shit, fuck
Willow (54:33):
Yeah,
Leah (54:34):
takes.
Take some, you gotta learn somethings
Willow (54:37):
Well, yeah, and I think it also, you gotta learn things
and then you also have to letthe things that you learn
integrate into your nervoussystem and into your being.
You know, it's like, it's, itbecomes such a nuanced practice
to, to be able to, in themoment, track what your nervous
system is doing, track what yourtruth is, be able to come into
(54:59):
your heart, be able to, um.
You know, without a lot ofemotional charge speak that
truth.
And so there, there are just somany pieces to the puzzle that,
um, take time to integrate,especially if you're coming from
an environment or a family orupbringing or something where
there was a lot of just like wereactive communication, yelling
(55:21):
and, um, or, you know, runninginto the other room or whatever
it is.
Just that those, those deeperreactions and patterns.
Um, one of the
Leah (55:30):
Or even non reactions.
I mean, I've got a childhood
Willow (55:33):
into the room.
Leah (55:34):
parents were totally, they give her the silent treatment.
They were upset with her.
They never screamed.
They never yelled.
There wasn't a lot ofpunishment.
The punishment, the punishmentwas, I'm not gonna talk to you
for three days.
Willow (55:45):
Ugh.
That's so
Leah (55:46):
And so like, it looks like, oh, it's not very
upsetting, except you feel thishuge amount of separation.
You know, so it, it can look.
Just because one family'sreactive and another family
isn't, doesn't mean that one ishealthier than the other.
Willow (56:01):
Totally.
Absolutely.
And you know, Leah and I havedone a couple of episodes on,
um, the protective patternsthat, uh, Maya has also studied,
and she referenced that in theepisode she spoke about Lynda
Ceasara.
So I think it's, it's a goodthing to understand and know
these patterns, especially whentalking about communication and
(56:22):
how to communicate with yourpartner when they're in pattern,
when they're in a triggeredstate.
So go check out our episodewith, um, Steven Kessler, and
also we did one on our own aswell.
Um, those are really, reallyimportant for being able to
communicate effectively.
Leah (56:39):
Well, and, and also just understanding your conditioned
wounds and how you reach forsafety.
That, as an adult really isn'tkeeping you safe.
It's just keeping you in patternand yeah, and it, and it
actually doesn't drive youtowards the truth.
Um, it drives you somewhere elsethat's separate from where you
(57:00):
wanna be connected to your lovedones.
Willow (57:02):
Yeah.
And also I will say, you know,it doesn't have to take a long
time, like the integration ofwhat you learn.
You know, if you go do the Voicewith Maya, you're gonna learn
some really powerful stuff realquickly and, um, and you'll, you
get to practice it with otherwomen right away.
So that definitely helps withintegration.
I mean, that is the mostimportant piece of integrating
(57:23):
is to be in practice with whatyou, aha, you know, what you've
realized and learned.
Leah (57:28):
It's the key to the embodiment piece is being able
to practice these new skillsover and over again so that you
have a way to freedom toliberation from the things that
are burdening you and to be ableto process that in a way to
practice new tools.
Then you pick up, oh, thisreally worked for me.
Oh, this is what I need.
(57:49):
This is a ding, ding, ding.
So that when I get triggeredagain like this, I know some
steps that are gonna help me getto that place of understanding
what's the essential, what'sthat vulnerable thing that
really needs to be said.
Just like she illustrated in herstory with the, with the woman
And her dad.
of just like simple, elegant,but it probably wasn't simple
(58:10):
and elegant when she started,you know, processing that
burden.
Like to be able to.
Move that charge in community,practice getting to the heart of
it.
And then, and then from there,having the courage to say what
needs to be said.
You do that, rinse and repeat,and then it becomes how you
operate and live in the world.
(58:30):
And, um, yeah, it's just a good.
It's a good reminder to me thatit has been a long time since I
have been in like a personalgrowth community, really working
on something interpersonal, um,and how valuable it is.
No matter how much work you'vedone, no matter how many
workshops you've attended, nomatter how much personal growth
work you've done, it's stillgood to return and sharpen up
(58:55):
your skills.
Because these conditionedresponses and our triggers and
our safety strategies, they areso much more ingrained.
Then the little bit of time wespend on a technique.
So you kind of have to keep oncoming back and going, oh Yeah.
that's right.
This really works for me
Willow (59:10):
It's a layered process for sure.
All right, cia.
Well, so glad we could have Mayaand you'll hear more of her in
an upcoming episode.
Leah (59:19):
yeah.
And do us a favor, share thisepisode with a woman that, you
know, let's, let's let's doubleup our
Willow (59:25):
the word.
Let's spread the love.
Let's help women express and becontent to speak their truths
without apology.
Leah (59:34):
Nice.
Okay.
Cheers.
Announcer (59:36):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Taxology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments, likesubscribes and suggestions
matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.
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