Mel Krangle & Suzi Sheckter: Is Your Generation BAD at Sex? The Surprising Truth About Who's Really Better at Sex & Why | #130 - The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leah (00:05):
Hey there, it's Leah and Willow, your hosts of the Sex
Reimagined

Willow (00:08):
Yes, and today we had hosts of this other podcast
called Sharing My Truth, whichwas really fun.
Mel and Suzi are the hosts ofthis.
They have open, honestconversations.
They air every Wednesday.
Mel is a Gen X digitalentrepreneur and married mom of
two based in Toronto and London.
And Suzi's a younger millennialactress, presenter, and content

(00:31):
creator based in Turkey.
Toronto, very cool city.
They come together on theirpodcast to share their
uncensored experiences andperspectives on life, love,
trauma, and s*x So tune in andturn on and fall in love with
these two on our podcast, andthen go check out us on their
podcast.

Announcer (00:52):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.

Leah (01:01):
They're here.
The Sharing My Truth podcasthosts are on the show.
Welcome Mel and Suzi.

Mel & Suzi (01:08):
Hi.
Thank you so, so much.
Thank you so much for having us.

Willow (01:11):
Yeah, we're so excited to drop in with you guys.
You guys really, um, offer acool perspective around, um,
generational differences, likethe, the gen X's versus the
millennials and all thedifferent things that we've had
that both generations have havebeen kind of spoon fed.
And how do we sort through that?
And, you know, what's, what'sthe real truth behind, um, you

(01:35):
know, what we grew up inculturally.
So excited to drop into this,especially as it relates to
sexuality.

Mel & Suzi (01:42):
Absolutely.
There's just literally, it'skind of a never ending thing to
talk about and that's why youcan't shut us up.
Like we just are constantly, um,finding new ways of, um, like
why, why do we have thesedifferent perspectives on these
topics where we don't have ahuge age gap, right?
Like it's less than 25 years.
It's pretty, it's prettyenormous to be fair.

(02:05):
Things that are differentbecause Mel grew up differently
and yet we still do have some ofthe same opinions, right, that
maybe you wouldn't expect and Idon't really believe that Mel is
a regular 50 year old And maybeI'm not a regular 29 year old.
So, you know it's just we'rekind of we found each other in a
weird way and we have weirdlysimilar and yet different

(02:28):
opinions

Willow (02:28):
How did you guys find each other?
Tell us about the genesis storyof this whole operation.

Mel & Suzi (02:33):
Oh, my God, Mel.
It's like so beautiful.
Um, uh, we actually met throughMel's husband, which is so
funny.
Um, we have an episode about iton our pod if you really want to
dive in deep to it, but weactually met through her
husband.
I met him at like a weird workhappy hour.
Um, and we got to talkingbecause Mel and her husband are

(02:54):
both, um, in this weird kind of,I don't know, Mel, how to
describe it.
It's like the domain name.
Um, Well, I'm sort of in digitalmarketing also in like domain,
like we buy and sell, uh,domains cause we're so old that
we got into the game early.

Willow (03:10):
yeah.

Leah (03:11):
Cool.

Mel & Suzi (03:12):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's like sexually focusedalmost.
So they have a lot of opinions.
Certain percentage.
Yeah.
So they know a lot of weirdstuff and I just love talking
about sex.
I'll talk about sex to whoeverwants to talk to me about sex.
So that's how her husband and Igot started talking and then he
was like, Oh, do you want tomeet my, um, my wife?
She like wants to start apodcast.
And I was like.

(03:33):
Yeah, that's so pretty much it.

Willow (03:35):
That was history.

Mel & Suzi (03:36):
Then we got along, which I think is the, the
unusual bit that we're clearlyvery different, but we clicked
and we genuinely enjoy like thepodcast and each other's
company.
And we just laugh all the time.
And I think that that's thegreat thing.
So we're talking about seriousthings and things that are
meaningful, but we're, it'slighthearted.

(03:57):
I mean, you've got to laugh.
Otherwise, you know, we're goingto cry.

Willow (04:01):
life is not going to be very much fun.

Mel & Suzi (04:03):
Yeah.

Willow (04:04):
So how long have you guys been at it?

Mel & Suzi (04:07):
Oh my God.
It's been like a year and a halfnow, I think.
About a year and a half.
So pretty recent, but we've seena lot of amazing growth, um, and
just because people love, love,and I'm sure you guys know this,
to like, listen to sex, listento sex, whatever it is,
whatever's taboo, um, whatever'shappening, people are not used
to, and I think it's weird forme.

(04:27):
And it's also, I think a littlebit weird for Mel because we're
so open.
And people in general.
In our society, in NorthAmerica, are not open about sex
yet.
And that surprises me becauseI'm a very open person,
obviously, and it's just, it'swild.
So we love talking about it.
People love listening to it, butpeople do not want to talk about

(04:48):
it themselves.
And I think that's why we'veseen such amazing growth in the
last little, um, few months.
And yeah, it's been, it's beenawesome.
Yeah.
I mean, particularly for meanyway, we talk about the
generational thing is I'mcontinually amazed at young
people still have so many hangups, and I mean Millennials, Gen
Z, about sex, talking about it,you know, um, just about so many

(05:12):
things around it that I findsurprising, because I think,
well, surely that's the domainof my generation and older, and
we have valid reasons for that.
And you think, well, now it'sall, you know, you can buy a sex
toy anyway.
You can, you know, everything's,everyone's watching porn.
Like, it's all much more open,and particularly women and men.
Paratively to the past, but westill have a long, long way to

(05:35):
go.
And obviously there are lots ofreasons for that, but I find
that very interesting howyounger generate women
particularly still arestruggling a lot with.

Willow (05:46):
What are some of the hang ups that you, like,
specifically that you're, thatyou've been witnessing and
noticing?

Mel & Suzi (05:52):
Some of my friends who were like in their twenties,
early thirties, um, truemillennials, right?
Like we've grew up like watchingporn pretty much like there, it
was always available.
Sex isn't like super weird.
Obviously, like we're not likein the non binary phase where
like the Gen Z's and what we'reseeing like that's happening.
But, um, we're in this weirdstage where like, yeah, of

(06:14):
course I own a sex toy, but likea lot of my friends don't.
And I'm like, how do you not owna vibrator?
How do you not own like a simplevibrator?
Not even like a weird shapedoctopus dick.
But like, how do you not ownjust like a regular vibrator?
Like, like it's just, it'ssomething so for your own
pleasure.
Why are you not doing that foryourself?
So there's just like thoselittle weird nuances in the

(06:37):
millennial stage where I'm like,I would understand that why
Mel's friends might not have avibrator or a sex toy or may not
want to talk about it, but someof my friends who I'm like,
well, they all do,

Willow (06:48):
Do, do, so when we're talking about these, these
millennials who don't ownvibrators, um, is it, is there,
is there, is it a shame thingor, or is it they don't have
the, they haven't been educated,they haven't found that part of
their body?
What do you think it is likeoverall?

Mel & Suzi (07:06):
It's such a good question because I've never been
like that.
Like as soon, like I turned 18and I like went to Amsterdam
like on a Euro trip and I likegot my first vibrator and I was
like, I'm never going back.
Like, you know, like you comefor the first time and you're
like, why wouldn't I want tomake this better?
Like, it's just crazy to me.

(07:26):
So I don't know really what itis.
A hundred percent, I think it'sabout.
Shame and people still feelweird about going into sex
stores, but then that doesn'treally take it back because I'm
like, you can order stuff onlinelike so easily.
Like, why are we not doing thatas much?
So it's a great question.
I personally don't know.
I think it's about like, alsolike, Oh, I don't know if I need

(07:47):
it.
I can use my hands or I maybejust want a man.
It's something that I, I don'tknow if I'll ever get answered.

Leah (07:55):
I kind of wonder if, you know, I was just listening to,
um, it's a podcast, uh, armchairexpert, um, and he had a sex
expert on around the beginningof the new year.
I'm just catching up on someepisodes cause I'm out of smut
to listen to.
Well, I need some new smut.
I am so like bored right now.

(08:16):
Um, but.
What's that?

Mel & Suzi (08:19):
We gotta make some then.

Leah (08:20):
You know what, I was just speaking to a client today who
is working on some of his sexualstuff and he's a writer for his
job.
And so one of the things he cameup with for his coaching action
plan was to write some erotica

Willow (08:34):
I

Leah (08:34):
and to start re re programming himself and the way
he looks at sexuality becausehe's taking on.
He's, getting sober from porn.
And so we're trying to re engagea new way for him to explore
sexuality.
And I just love that he waslike, do you think I could write
it?
I'm like, oh yeah, you can writeit.
You know, let's, let's go on anadventure.
Yeah, yeah.

Willow (08:54):
creative outlet.
Yeah.

Leah (08:56):
But one of the things that we're talking about in this
episode, back to this episode,um, this author from, and
therapist from Santa Barbaraactually, Willow.
Was like we have a story thatsays women's sexual pleasure is
confusing and more challengingand harder to access than men.
And she really posed thepushback on that because it's

(09:18):
not that we're more difficult orthat we're just our sexual
orgasm is just as easy andsimple as a boys.
It's just we've normalized boysorgasms.
We have a clit, they have apenis.
You rub where it's mostsensitive.
It's not that hard to figureout.
We just haven't normalized itthat, you know, women need to

(09:38):
explore their clitoris and thatthey can do it at a younger age
than they ever thought.
It's like we're, we've beengiven this idea that it's up to
boys, mainly, from aheterosexual standpoint.
To make you come.

Mel & Suzi (09:51):
Yeah.

Leah (09:52):
No one really teaches the boys how, you know, same sex
relationships I think have amuch easier time getting each
other off than heterosexualrelationships.
Um, thoughts?

Mel & Suzi (10:04):
That, that, that makes sense though, doesn't it?
Because when, if you're veryyoung, you're starting on your
journey, you have absolutely noidea what you're doing.
And if you, I mean, you barelyknow what you're doing, you
know, with yourself.
So if you're in a same sexrelationship, at least you sort
of both vaguely know whereeverything is.
So, I mean, you've got a headsup literally in that respect.

(10:24):
I think, you know, going back tothis idea of why has have some
things kind of progressed forwomen, but some things really
don't seem to have moved on asfast as they really should have.
I think it's a lot to do withthe education.
You've got to remember, I mean,I have two teenage daughters.
Now I'm very open minded,obviously I'm doing this
podcast.
I communicate a lot.

(10:45):
I mean, that may seem strange topeople cause I'm English, but I
do communicate.
I talk a lot.
It annoys them, but you know, Ido it.
But, um, I, you know, obviouslyI'm.

Willow (10:54):
you talk, I like your accent.

Mel & Suzi (10:56):
Isn't she sexy?
It's unbearable sometimes.
But I mean, a lot of people Iknow who are mothers who, you
know, I'm 51, who are in their50s or late 40s, whatever, and
they have teenage girls, boys,they don't communicate with
them.
They don't talk to them aboutsex.
And they do this really oddthing, they're like, well, you
can't go out and you shouldn'tbe drinking.
You shouldn't be doing this.
You shouldn't be having sex.

(11:16):
And I always say to them, whatwere you doing when you were 16?
I mean, obviously you want themto be safe and, but you've got
to strike a balance between kindof guiding them and being weird.
Like, you know, you would, whatwere you trying to do when you
were 16?
You were trying to get drunk andget laid.
I mean, you know, that's thenorm.
That's what humans do.

(11:37):
And I think you, people reallysort of still shrouded in this
sort of weird thing.
So they're teaching these kidswho are millennials, Gen Z,
well, my kids are Gen Zs, and itsort of filters down.
So I think almost until there'sa generation that isn't weird
about it, then the nextgeneration, Then maybe they have
a chance of not being weirdabout it because we're just
perpetuating it.

(11:58):
And I also think there's thisthing like men are still taught
this thing like you're talkingabout, you know masturbation for
men, I mean when I was growingup, I didn't even know that
women masturbate didn't evenknow that was a thing like women

Leah (12:12):
of doing it, but I didn't know it was a thing and

Mel & Suzi (12:14):
I was what is clit?
Like, we don't even, like, worry

Leah (12:18):
no one was talking about the clit when I was in high
school.

Mel & Suzi (12:20):
I can actually think of the time when I heard that
word for the first time.
Like, Oh, that makes sense.
You know, like, you know, butfor years, like in your
twenties, had no idea that itactually had some kind of
function or needed to bestimulated.
And that if men aren't taughtthat if they're not educated.
Then, and we're, you know, we'retalking, obviously the, the

(12:41):
greater proportion ofrelationships are men and women,
then there's no, there's nohope.
I mean, there's just, and wekeep perpetuating this thing.
And then I think young womenhave relationships and they, um,
they're just endlessly wantingto pleasure men.
Like when they start, they starttheir relationships.
They, they don't think aboutthemselves and we need to change

(13:03):
that somehow.
And we haven't succeeded.
I don't know how we're going tosucceed, but I don't think we
have.

Willow (13:08):
Well, by podcasts and conversations like thiS.
Yeah.
Thank you, Dr.
Willow is that what you'reseeing, Suzi, in your
generation, too?
Like, women are starting outinto relationships.
I mean, that is so true.
So many of the women that Isupport and help, they're like,
I don't feel like I'm having agood time, because I'm, they're
performing, right?
They're not actually feelingsexual pleasure, because they're

(13:30):
not accustomed to, Get liketheir sexuality, right?
We all are responsible for ourown arousal and our own
sexuality.

Leah (13:38):
but no one teaches you that.

Willow (13:39):
yeah.
And if we're not in touch withit and we don't, we don't know
that then like, um, yeah, we getinto these relationships
thinking that we're there toserve the other and that they
should turn our arousal on,which that turns into a big
fucking downward spiral quickly.
So Suzi, is that, are you seeingthat in your generation still?

Mel & Suzi (13:58):
100%.
Um, I mean, I didn't learn, likewe just spoke about, I didn't
learn what the clit was, um,until, like, I, like, found, in
quotations, my clit when I hadmy first orgasm at, like, 18.
When I was having, I startedhaving sex at, like, 14, so
that's four years without anorgasm.
Like, that's insane to me now,where I'm, like, I was just

(14:20):
faking it, but not knowing I wasfaking it.
And I think A lot of women gothrough that because we just
don't know what is going on downthere.
And now I'm like, how could Iever fake it again when I know
what an orgasm is, but I willsay a short little story.
I was, um, I've been like, Ijust broke up with my boyfriend

(14:40):
recently.
And so I've been dating aroundand sleeping around and, um,

Willow (14:44):
Get

Mel & Suzi (14:45):
and doing research, doing research...

Willow (14:49):
that's right.
For the podcast.
It's all in the name of thepodcast.

Mel & Suzi (14:53):
dedicated to body ladies.
And And I, um, I was, I sleptwith this, like, Gen X guy.
Okay, very nice gentleman, okay,not angry about it, and he, um,
he, he was like, I, and he wasreally great in the bedroom, and
he was like, I don't understand,um, like, men, it's so easy to

(15:15):
jerk off, and we can just comewhenever the we want.
And he's like, you only get somany chances with a woman and
like, why wouldn't you want tomake sure that they are having a
good time and like pleasing themwhen you're with them, like, and
not like care about yourself inthat way.
Right.
And I was like, Oh my God, like,why doesn't every man think like

(15:36):
you though?
Like, that's not a normalthought of a man.
And then I was like, why is thatnot a normal thought

Leah (15:42):
No, I think it is.

Mel & Suzi (15:43):
is it?

Leah (15:44):
Oh yeah, I mean the men that I encounter, they are so
single focused on wanting tomake their partner come because
their arousal is hooked intotheir partner's arousal.
So they want to feel like theman, like you have to come in
order for me to know I'm okaysexually.
So then a woman often feels allthis pressure to perform and
then there's an upset when it'slike, well, why aren't you

(16:05):
coming?
There must be something wrongwith you.
And she's like, I don't know.
You know, isn't it, I mean,shouldn't you be doing
something?
So I actually see that like menwant women to come as much as
women want to

Willow (16:16):
Well, but this is

Leah (16:16):
but they've never been taught how to do it either.

Willow (16:19):
It's an interesting statement though, coming from
Suzi saying that, you know,she's seeing more men not having
that perspective in hergeneration.
So somehow that got lost.

Leah (16:30):
Well, it might be, I want to push back on that a little
bit because I work with a lot ofmen that are your generation and
that's what they're telling me.
I don't know that there's a lotof men having that conversation
with women.
That, that's what might, might,might make that guy unusual.
But I think at the heart ofheart of most men is they want
to please women.
They want to pleasure women.

(16:50):
They want to feel awesome.
They want to feel confident.
They want to feel like they are

Willow (16:55):
I gave her the best fucking orgasm of her life.

Leah (16:57):
Yeah.
I don't think guys are sexuallyselfish.
I think that's an old story fromgenerations past, I don't know
that's really true anymore.

Mel & Suzi (17:05):
Well, yeah, and like, women are not speaking up
about what we want.

Willow (17:08):
I guess it just depends on what circles you're

Mel & Suzi (17:10):
in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, do they actually, dothey want to pleasure women
because it makes them feelmanly?
So in, in itself, it's quite anegotistical act, or are they
actually doing it because theyreally care about the woman and
really want to.
So they're saying, look, thewoman takes more.
So let, let's, I can, I can doit generally more easily because

(17:32):
of my function more easily ifwe're going to put it in those
terms.
So let's concentrate on thewoman first, make sure she's in
a good place and then it's me.
How many men actually are likethat?
So they actually really, it'snot ego.

Leah (17:46):
I don't think you can separate the two.
I think it's both.

Mel & Suzi (17:50):
Okay.
Fair

Leah (17:50):
Yeah, I don't think it's an either or.
I think they both want it fortheir ego, and they also
generally want their lover tofeel pleasure.

Willow (17:58):
I mean, yeah, they generally go hand in hand hand
in hand.
You get off on both.
Don't we It's both?

Mel & Suzi (18:02):
It's true.
Like I, wanna, I want a guy tocome to make me feel good
because I'm like, oh my God, Ijust made my man come.
But then I'm like, I want him tocome to feel pleasure.
So,

Leah (18:10):
When everyone comes, everyone tends to feel
successful.

Willow (18:12):
Happy.
Laughter.

Leah (18:16):
I think sometimes like when it's not very easy for one
person to climax, there tends tobe a hopelessness that gets felt
by both people and maybe themale partner just kind of feels
like they can't succeed and sothey give up.
But they still have their needsand then it, and I think there's

(18:36):
some unconscious sexual energythat both sexes have.
I think the predominant one formen is they aren't aware of
their own energy when theypenetrate a partner.
And so what they end up fuckinginto them is their stress from
the day, their tension, sort ofthis unconscious drive.

(18:58):
And some selfishness, like theyjust want to get relief because
wouldn't it be nice to sleep sogood tonight?
Well, nothing will help yousleep better than having an
ejaculation.
And so you're having yourroutine sex at the end of the
night, and she becomes adepository for all that stress,
all that tension, all thatunconsciousness.
And he's not really payingattention always to her pleasure

(19:18):
if she's not also payingattention to her pleasure.
And then we have years that goby, and she's feeling
unfulfilled, and frankly, getssick and tired of having sex.
Like, what's in it?
What's the payoff for her?
She's not getting the pleasure.
Instead, she's getting thistension.
And then he wonders why she'ssuch a cold bitch.
I mean, it ends up being thisweird thing, and it's like they

(19:39):
don't even realize it's notbecause she's a cold bitch.
It's not because she doesn'tknow how to orgasm, maybe she
hasn't unpacked her fullpleasure potential and connected
to her own desire and connectedto her own turn on because no
one's bothered to ask her aboutit.
And meanwhile, they're bothfeeling inadequate and blaming
the other one.

(20:00):
And then we wonder why peopleget divorced after 19 years, 25
years, 42 years.
I mean.
I've watched so many divorces,oddly, I've had so many couples
come through my workshops, whoare at the breaking up point
after 42 years of marriage.
It's a very strange number.
Anyways, I don't know, I mean,that's my theory.
My theory on sort of therelationship that's gone cold in

(20:22):
the bedroom is there's someunconscious sex happening.
Where he is a little bit ofsleep and I don't say this to
like man bash.
I think it's quite instinctualand biological for a man to
ejaculate to release the tensionof the day.
It's a reset button, but.

(20:43):
It takes one second to come upwith a thought form that says
what do I want to penetrate herwith tonight?
That she feel beautiful, thatshe's safe, that she belongs,
that she's desirable, that she'shot, that she's juicy, that she
feels pleasure, that she feelslike a goddess.
I mean, all you have to do isthink of one gorgeous word to
say, feel this babe, penetrateher with that and see what

(21:05):
happens after 10 days.

Mel & Suzi (21:09):
yeah, that is so interesting.
I've literally never heard thatin those terms of like, you're
penetrating with actual feeling.
I've never ever heard that.
That's very interesting.
I saw something recently in apodcast or something on social
media, and it was about how menand women orgasm and that for
men it's release.

(21:29):
So the energy is going that way.
And for women, it's likeenergizing.
So the men are just getting ridof stuff, like you're saying,
where women it's giving themlife.

Willow (21:40):
Well, it also depends on how you're orgasming and how
you're directing the energybecause men could injaculate as
well and fill themselves up withall of that jing chi.
And women can totally, you know,shoot their ejaculation out of
their body and their energy outof their body

Leah (21:56):
Yeah, but oftentimes when women ejaculate they can
recirculate that and and it canbe energizing.
It is true that energetically Imean if you look at It right
like out in so yeah, we canreceive a ton That's why women
are so chatty afterward.

Mel & Suzi (22:10):
Wait, can I actually like, I want, cause I actually
had this conversation reallyrecently and I was like, what,
um, what is this, uh, like postcum clarity?
And why, why do men get it sohard and women just want to like
snuggle and enjoy and like chat?
Like, why are men like, get thefuck out of my face, I do not
want to talk to you anymore.

Leah (22:30):
think I have an answer for this one,

Mel & Suzi (22:32):
Please.

Leah (22:33):
when he goes to ejaculate, it drains him.
Right now, as a younger man,he's got a shorter refractory
period.
They're not a perpetual motionmachine.

Mel & Suzi (22:44):
The most, the majority of people.
The majority of men at least arenot having sex a lot.
I think a lot of, I mean of all,that's the other thing we find
like, you know, and they talkabout it a lot in the media,
young people not having sex asmuch.
I'm convinced it's because theydon't go out as much.
Yeah.
Like I think, I'm always sayingto Suzi you know, when I was

(23:05):
young.
When I was her age, if I didn'tgo out, I mean, she goes out a
lot, but if I didn't go out, youknow, what were you doing?
Staring at the wall?
I mean, you couldn't sit in yourseat, order a pizza, order a
date, order a pair of jeans andnot move a nanomillimeter.
Now you can do

Willow (23:21):
Yeah, it's such a different world.

Mel & Suzi (23:23):
Exactly.
And you had to go, go to thebars and parties and meet
people.
Otherwise you weren't doinganything.

Willow (23:30):
Well, and I wonder too if if all of that sort of sort
of like on demand ordering onyour little square device that
you always have right next toyou like if that makes people
lazy and in their Way ofcommunicating and being in
relationship, being inrelationship with themselves and
then being relationship witheach other.
It's like, oh, well, you know,that one didn't work out.

(23:52):
Let me just swipe to find thenext one.
You know, it's like, yeah,there, there is this sort of
more on demand culture thatwe're living in.
And so is it, is it making, uh,Millennials and Gen Zers like
more or less apt to put the workin that it takes to create a,

(24:12):
you know, beautiful, longsustaining relationship.

Mel & Suzi (24:15):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, like I, as someone
who literally just got back onthe apps after an eight year
relationship, like the apps havechanged a lot since I was on
them at like 20 years old.
And it's like, and I can't, Ilook at these guys, we're trying
to talk to me and like thesmall, the small talk on an app

(24:36):
or like on texting, I justcannot stand.
And so I'd way rather, it's justexhausting to me.
Like it's, I'd way rather meetsomeone in person.
And this is obviously sopersonal to me.
Like I would way rather meetsomeone in person, feel a vibe.
If there's a good vibe, if I'mactually attracted to them in
person, because in person is alot different than a picture.

(24:56):
I'm like feeling whatever we'refeeling and then knowing right
away if it's going to work ornot instead of texting someone
for like two or more weeks andthen finally getting together
because your life is busy andshit happens and then finally
getting together and like beinglike, Oh my God, I really don't
like this person and like now Ihave to like ghost them and then
it's just like exhausting andthen you feel bad and then you

(25:17):
find someone new and you do theexact same thing over and over
again.

Willow (25:20):
Boy, you're really I'm the online dating, Susie.

Mel & Suzi (25:24):
Literally hate online dating so much, like I, I
don't know if I'm ever going togo on one of these hinged dates.
I'm literally on it for like theego boost and the distraction,
um, of just my daily life.
So that's personally me.
I'm, but like, you know, someonelike my brother who met his like
gorgeous fiance on Tinder.

Willow (25:42):
Lots of people find them.
Yeah.

Mel & Suzi (25:45):
and it's like, it happens all the time.
So it's really just like who youare and what you're looking for.
For me, I need that personal inperson connection though.
We just did an episode on datingapps actually, and it's
statistically obviously it'sgoing to happen because if
everyone's doing it,

Leah (26:00):
But it's dismal for men, isn't it?

Mel & Suzi (26:02):
I think so.
I think the thing is that theyhave to, that there's so much
kind of performance about it,like before they've even done
anything, before they've evenmet you.
I mean, you think before theapps, you like, we're just
talking about, I had to go to abar, I had to go to a party, you
know, you had to get, you know,know each other, even like a
bookstore or a coffee shop.
No one does that anymore.
And you didn't know anyone, butyou didn't know this person

(26:25):
liked hiking.
Was it.
You know, a concert pianist was,you know, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, jet skiing,mastermind, you know, whatever.
You had to find this out bygoing on a few dates, maybe
going away, talking to them.
Whereas I think, you know, fartoo much information.
I mean, I don't think I wouldhave slept with anybody when I

(26:46):
was in my twenties, if I'd knownthat much information.
I mean, just wouldn't have done,would you?
You'd just be like, no, thanks.
thanks

Leah (26:52):
Also like chemistry is,

Willow (26:54):
So important.

Leah (26:55):
Well, it's not only important, but it's impossible
to have when you won't even meetsomebody.
If you're only having a textconnection, if you've only
swiped and maybe like had acouple phone calls, you would be
surprised who you could possiblybe attracted

Mel & Suzi (27:11):
exactly.
I've said this to susie,

Leah (27:13):
women have a huge advantage with online dating as
compared to men.
I mean, there's the, there's theAdam Sandler effect.
Women are, can be very attractedto an, uh, someone who's not
very attractive, but if they'refunny and they make you feel
great and they're wonderfulconversationalist, they can
become so beautiful to you.
You can become so attracted tosomeone's spirit and how they

(27:36):
carry of themselves and whatthey do in the world and how the
world responds to them.
And they may not be a classic,handsome dude, you

Mel & Suzi (27:43):
That's a hundred percent.
They have charisma.
In fact, Suzi showed me thispicture of this guy and she's
like, Oh my God, he's bald.
And I'm like, yeah, but he couldbe, you've got to kind of go
outside your parameters cause hecould be a really nice guy and I
do like funny guys.
Like I'm much more attracted tothe personality than the face.
But you don't know until you'vemet them and you have, not you,

(28:03):
but like people on the apps,they've got all this criteria
that they think is reallyimportant.
And sometimes when you meetsomebody, you're like, Oh,
actually, I don't give a shitthat he's not a banker or
whatever it is that you want.

Leah (28:13):
I have to tell you, some of the homelier guys are much
better at sex.

Willow (28:17):
Because they've studied.
studied

Leah (28:18):
Than the best looking guys because they got to work harder.
Yeah.

Mel & Suzi (28:22):
Our short Kings are so good at fucking.
It is unbelievable.
They have to try so much harderbecause they're like short and
they had to like, and they'rehonestly, I found that short
guys are like wealthier.
They want it, they're moregenerous.
The less attractive a man is,the better he is at his
everything else.
It's like the most interestingthing ever.

(28:44):
Yeah.
I mean, again, it's great.

Leah (28:46):
Interesting.
So, Suzi I'm curious, like, whoare you looking for now?
What kind of guy?
What are you looking for in thenext relationship department?

Mel & Suzi (28:57):
60 million dollar question.
Such a good idea.
I mean, such a good question.
Like, I have no idea.

Leah (29:01):
Mm hmm.

Mel & Suzi (29:02):
It's so funny, like, I, um, if you were to ask me
this at like 20 or 25, it wouldbe a completely different answer
than I am now with my late, late20s.
Like, where I'm like, I mean,yeah.
Right.
Like,

Willow (29:15):
I hope so.

Mel & Suzi (29:16):
funny.
Cause I still have like so muchlove and like respect for my
like ex boyfriend who was likeliterally such an angel.
And like, but we just, you know,in my opinion, it was just, we
were on, like, we were going ondifferent paths a bit.
And I just, I was like, what amI missing from this?
And I'm like, it's, and I don'tknow if you ladies will agree,
but I think a lot ofmillennials, um, millennial

(29:39):
women are like, Oh my God, Iactually do want to be taken
care of a bit.
And this is something that I, at20, I was like, Oh my God, I am,
I can take care of myself.
I make a lot of money.
I am doing amazing.
Like I don't need a man to doanything for me.
I'm going to pay for my dinners.
I'm going to do whatever.
And now I'm like, Oh my God.
Like, of course I'm still makingmoney, whatever, whatever,

(30:01):
taking care of myself.
But I'm like, no, I actually dowant a man to treat me and like,
like do nice things for me.
And like, In the way of, ofmonetary value, which doesn't
sound good when I say it, butthat's, it's just the reality of
how I feel in my late twenties.
Um,

Leah (30:19):
That's exactly how I felt at your age and going into my
30s.
And there was somethingvalidating about it too, like I
wanted to be worthy of someonecherishing me with things like
gifts and trips and, you know,being a provider.
And I am going to alsoreciprocate.
I'm gonna, I want to also havesomeone to spoil and delight and

(30:41):
it's like I'm not in it for themoney, but I want the money to
represent something and there,and it makes sense that there's
a little bit of worth and alittle bit of money that go
together because that's how weplace value on things.
I mean, I think in my.
And when I hit like 25, I'd hadenough relationships with broke
artists.
I was like, I am not datinganother guitarist.
I am setting that shit down.

(31:03):
I love the artist.
I, but I just don't want to bein relationship with you
anymore.

Mel & Suzi (31:08):
A hundred percent.

Willow (31:09):
they're often very good in bed.
They have good rhythm.
They know how to rock the boat.

Mel & Suzi (31:14):
I'm not against a musician, but he better be
touring, you know what I mean?
Like,

Leah (31:18):
I was a sucker for it.
Yeah.

Mel & Suzi (31:20):
it just, like, I, I really, like, I, I really want a
nice,

Leah (31:24):
ha ha ha ha ha

Mel & Suzi (31:24):
for, I love, I've always loved a really genuine,
nice guy who makes me laugh.
Like, that's just, I love a niceguy.
I've really just like reallyenjoyed a nice genuine guy, so
that's just something that I'vealways been attracted to.
Um, but yeah, it's really, it'sreally difficult when you also
want that monetary value alittle bit.
And just the way of like, I wantto feel appreciated and valued,

(31:45):
and I want a guy to be like,this is going to make her happy,
so I want to do this for her.

Willow (31:50):
Yeah, yeah, it's really nice when it's that genuine,
like, you know, there's such anabundance of financial flow that
it just, it's, it's a gift forthem to to give the gift to the
one that they cherish the most,Yeah,

Mel & Suzi (32:05):
Yeah, I think, Yeah, I mean, I always have said to my
daughters from a very young agethat when looking for a partner
and they're both heterosexualthat, you know, I don't really,
I don't care about theirbackground, you know, whatever,
you know, what, what you shouldlook for is somebody who's kind,
like, honestly, that sounds alittle cheesy, but is a real, is

(32:27):
a good person who honestly wantsto have your back and is a nice
person.
And the other thing is, And itis a kind of outdated idea, but
a man who will step up.
Um, and you know, cause therewill be periods in your life
when you have children orwhatever it is.
When you, maybe you have to atsome point support him and
supports you, whatever it is,but somebody who's willing to

(32:50):
step up, who's not going to bebasically a guitarist making no
money.
And I always say, you know, itdoesn't have to be president of
the United States or Coca Colacorporation, but just somebody
has that in them that They wantto, you know, do something.
They want to provide.

Willow (33:06):
Yeah, I think it's so nice to, you know, for, for, for
a man and for a woman to bringstability to a relationship, you
know, a sense of stabilityinside of themselves and also in
the 3d realm of like financiallyand, you know, can take care of
stuff.
And can move, move the needleforward in life.

(33:27):
And you know, we do look to, tothe male counterparts to be
those providers and thoseprotectors and they actually are
wired their brains and theirhormones and their bodies are
wired to do that.
And so, um, when they do that,well, there is a sense of
empowerment, you know, thatcomes with that.
I think what we could do asheterosexual women is and create

(33:51):
more space for them to be intheir power, you know, because
we've all grown up.
I think all these generationshave grown, maybe not the Gen
Zers right now, but, um, youknow, this, these messages of
like, you got to be strong as awoman.
You got to do it all on yourown.
You got to make sure that youcan cover yourself.
Cause you know, this is amessage for a lot of women, like

(34:13):
you don't depend on a man.
And, um, and so, so there's alot of masculine.
Uh, moving through the worldthat women are doing right
there, moving through the worldin that yang way.
We're swimming in a sea of yangdays, and it leaves no room as
a, you know, as the femalecounterpart, it leaves no room

(34:34):
for the man to be the man ifshe's.
So busy being them in that role.

Mel & Suzi (34:39):
I think that's very well said.
It's 100 percent it.
And we are very conflicted aboutit.
And I think as a Gen Xer, I wastaught, um, by my father, like
you stand on your own two feet,you get an education.
If you want to drive a fancycar, live in a fancy house, you
do it.
You, and so I was taught thatand I did do that.

(34:59):
But I think I also the missingpieces that it's nice to have a
partner to be a team to do ittogether because there'll be
moments when you need, you needeach other and you need to be
vulnerable to each other.
Uh, and that's where the beautyof it is the beauty of a
successful relationship.

Willow (35:16):
exactly.
And, you know, in, in hetero,there is, um, there is that sort
of like, you know, the, thebiological dynamics that are
going on, you know, in, in amale brain versus a female
brain, when we're looking atsame sex, it's like, we all
carry yang and yin energy in ourbodies.
And we, we can step into eitherrole as we choose to.

(35:39):
Um, and I think that, you know,We're adaptable creatures.
So we can, we can create that,that dynamic in anything that we
do.
But Leah and I just were doinga, um, she hosted a, um, like a
BDSM training in her house lastweekend with, with Om Rupani.
And it was super fun.
And one of the things that wetalked about was super dynamic.

(36:02):
I mean, so many fucking layers.
I'm still integrating andprocessing.
We all are because it wasreally, um, Fascinating.
But one of the things that wetalked a lot about was Eros
lives went more fully.
It's more alive when we'replaying with a yes and a no at
the same time.
So erotic energy builds andthrives when things are a little

(36:24):
naughty or a lot naughty, youknow?
So when we bring in the no andplay with the light side with
the, Oh yeah, like, yes, like,you know, that other quality of
sexuality, then we have morecharge.
We have more energy.
It's more erotic.
We're more aroused.
We're more turned on.
So, um, all this to say that.

(36:46):
Uh, you know, there's, there'sreally, it's very, BDSM is
actually very Daoist from myperspective now.
It's, it's the yin and the yang,like we can't have one without
the other.
We don't know what light is ifwe don't know what dark is.
We don't know what dark is if wedon't know what light is.
And so I think we are, you know,In this culture where it's like,

(37:07):
Oh, well, you know, get thedegree and get the job and make
the money and get the home andhave the kids and do all the
things that, Oh, good for you.
Good for you.
Good for you.
But it's like, meanwhile,there's these parts of ourselves
that are hiding in the shadowsthat are tucked away, that are
like feeling like I'm not worthyor I don't have enough or you
know, am I, you know, goodenough for this man or this

(37:29):
woman.
And so bringing those things.
to the playground of sexualityreally lightens them and gives
them a chance to come to light.

Mel & Suzi (37:41):
Yeah.
I think that's very interesting.
The yes and the no.
I, like, that makes so muchsense to me that, now that
you're saying it, I'm like, whyare you making me horny, Willow?
Um, so rude.
But, uh, yeah, no, that makessense to me a hundred percent.

Willow (37:52):
What, what would be some of this putting you guys on the
spot a little bit and kind ofpersonal, but if you don't mind,
um, like what would be like,what would be a no for you?
What would be like a naughtylittle no that you might have
fun like bringing into a sexualscenario?

Mel & Suzi (38:08):
like a naughty no or a fuck no?
I'm like a naughty no.
Like a fuck, like a fuck no,like, get off, get out of my
butt?
Like, okay, got it.
Um, I don't know.
You never know.
Um, no, like a naughty no.
Eh.
Okay.
Like a, okay, let's try it.
Let's a fuck no.
Is like, I don't like pee pee.
Anything.
P Yes.
I don't like, no.
Okay.
That's a fuck no for me.

(38:29):
Um,

Willow (38:29):
no peeing, people.

Mel & Suzi (38:31):
pee, no.
Like weird, you know?
No P zone.
any, yeah.
Defecate.
Like none of that.
That's the, that's a fuck no forme.

Willow (38:37):
no

Mel & Suzi (38:37):
But

Willow (38:38):
no

Mel & Suzi (38:38):
no pee no poop..
Mm mm Um, nothing that smellsweird.
You know what I

Willow (38:42):
Okay.
Okay.
Well, sex sometimes smells

Mel & Suzi (38:45):
but it's, it's not an, it's a, in the better way
that those things do.
But not

Willow (38:50):
okay.
okay.
It's not waste.

Mel & Suzi (38:52):
coming on.
Um, but no, the, the naughty no,I mean, like, I'm into, like,
quite a few things.
Mm hmm.
Like, I mean, you know, alittle, like, a little light,
like, a little BDSM light, youknow, like, I love a little
spank.
A spank?
a little

Willow (39:07):
choking,

Mel & Suzi (39:09):
a little

Willow (39:10):
a little spit.

Mel & Suzi (39:10):
the whole I'm into the whole thing.

Willow (39:12):
What about a little bit of degradation, like a little
bit of humiliation?

Mel & Suzi (39:15):
I love that.
Oh, I love it.
No, never, Mel.

Willow (39:19):
Shit.

Mel & Suzi (39:20):
like, love it.
I think she, it's interesting,like, she said she's submissive.
That's not my bag at all.
Just in the bedroom, because inlife, I'm like, yeah.
Your dominating.
I'm not, and, yeah.
I don't like girls.
You don't like being submissive?
No.
Oh.

Willow (39:36):
you like, do you

Mel & Suzi (39:36):
Are you the dom then?

Willow (39:37):
dominating?

Mel & Suzi (39:38):
I'm more dominating?
I don't like being, I don't likebeing, Um, I don't like things
where you're some like holdingthroat, like you're being

Willow (39:48):
of that for Mel.

Mel & Suzi (39:50):
that's just doesn't.

Willow (39:51):
that would be a big

Mel & Suzi (39:52):
It's a huge no for me, and I'm not, we've discussed
this many times, I do have a bitof a problem with spit.
Yeah, she's very non spit, um,but you know, I'm not super into
that, but I, I'm not, uh, Idon't like the submittive thing.
So you're a dom?
Yeah.
She's a dom.
I think I could be a dominatrix.

Willow (40:11):
I could see you in some, some, plastic leather.

Mel & Suzi (40:15):
Yeah.

Willow (40:16):
With a whip in your hand.

Mel & Suzi (40:18):
New career for me.
I can see you wearing your,like, Manola Blahniks, like, on
someone's back and being like,you like that?
Yeah.
Yeah, why not?
That's you.
Yeah, why not?

Willow (40:27):
Oh my gosh, That's so fun.
Now, uh, what about us?
So we're talking some fun shithere.
We're talking about dominating.
Um.
I really dig it I was having alot of fun being in the dom role
and I was doming two Prettysmoking hot men too.
So that was really fun.
And it was also a lot to dom twomen at once.

(40:50):
And this was also my first timeand I was like on the heaviest
days of my moon cycle.
So there was a lot going on,but, um, but I rose to the
occasion and I, I, I'm, I'm downfor the submissive and I was a
little bit scared about thehumiliation piece.
Cause I'm a sensitive littlegirl, sensitive little lamb.

(41:10):
And I get real emotional, realeasy.
And I was like, I don't know ifI'm going to dig that
humiliation part, but itactually hit something inside of
me, which is this, um, you knowthese old stories and these old
beliefs and I'll give you thespecifics of it for me It was
like, you know people are likemen are leaving me because I

(41:35):
don't cause enough drama intheir lives and there they think
drama and codependency is whatlove is.
And so they go back to the dramaqueen right and the one that
they have to save becausethey're mr.
Savior.
That's their archetype.
So I'm just projecting all thisstuff on, onto these men.
Meanwhile, my story is like,well, I must be boring.
I must be too vanilla.

(41:56):
I must be too likeuninteresting, you know?
So that was sort of the, thething that I gave these men to
feed back to me in this rolethat playing that we were doing.
And they both were like, one ofthem in particular was, was
quite good at it.
And he, um, he really brought itinto the present moment, because
the reality is both of them wereinterested in me, so I know I'm

(42:18):
not uninteresting to them,right?
So they both kind of like had athing for me too over the
weekend, which was great, had athing for them too.
But, um, but then in this scene,they're like, you're so boring,
you know, and so for a while, Iwas like, okay, yeah, but it's
not really hitting, it's notreally happening for me, and And
then one of them was like, dosomething fucking interesting

(42:38):
right now.
God, you're so boring.
I don't even know why I'mwasting my time with you, you
know?
And then that like finally hitsomething in me that was this

Mel & Suzi (42:48):
to you?
No,

Willow (42:49):
old.

Mel & Suzi (42:50):
Oh, right.
Okay.

Willow (42:51):
Yeah, and then meanwhile, they're mixing it
with all this sexual pleasure,the humiliation gets mixed with
this sexual pleasure, and itkind of scrambles the, the old
patterning in your synaptic, youknow, cephalic brain, and
basically, it, it, Un, un gripsyou from the belief because I
actually did grow up and I wasprocessing yesterday with a

(43:13):
friend of mine just the wholeweekend and, and as I was
talking it out and kind ofprocessing it out, I was like,
Oh my God, my dad used to saythis all the time.
Anytime I would say I'm bored,he would say only boring people
are bored.
That's how, that's like what Igrew up on that phrase.
So then what did I do?
I went out into life and Istudied all the most

(43:34):
fascinating, esoteric, obscurethings.
Like I teach Taoist sexology,who even knows what that fucking
is, right?
And so it's just like.
You know, I've got, I'veaccumulated all this knowledge
and I've always been wise.
And so it's like, I know I'm notboring.
You know, I, I know thatclearly, but, but there was
still just this old sort of likeunconscious, and I think that's

(43:58):
the power of this work is like,you're bringing unconscious, the
subconscious, the subordinatepart of you to a place where it
can be seen, where it can beacknowledged, where it can be
met, so that it doesn't havesuch a grip on you and you're
not making choices from thosesubconscious places anymore.

Leah (44:18):
Yeah, that, it's, I, this Kinky BDSM stuff really, it
turns some things on its head.
It's, it's really, it's abizarre and wonderful landscape
to watch, like the amount ofcathartic potential.
lives inside of it.
Um, and I think we have a lot ofpictures that arise that make us

(44:41):
think, ooh, I don't know, that'sfor me.
Or, you know, like I have a, Ihave an aversion for I need like
the pain stuff that's connectedto it.
I don't, I'm not big intofloggers.
You can spank me a little bit,but I'm not all that big into
spankings.
I was spanked as a kid forpunishment.
So for some reason that's justnot, like, that doesn't actually
do it for me.
But it would for some other

Willow (45:02):
was too, but I like

Leah (45:03):
Really?
you know, so I have a sexualabuse background in my
childhood, and yet there'ssomething empowering, like this,
I mean, my husband might playout this scene very soon, I
confessed to him last night, Isaid, I want to go through a
scene where like, I want you tosay things like, see, you made
me do it, I want to like bendover and he's examining me and

(45:24):
he's like, I'm not going to fuckyou.
Don't worry about it.
I'm not going to fuck you, but Iam going to look at you, you
know, and then he ends uptouching me.
See, you made me do it, youknow, like blaming me for the
sexual inappropriateness.
Which of course could have beena theme younger, it's my fault,
right?
That all the bad traumahappened.
But now as an adult, after alsodoing a lot of healing work,

(45:46):
somatic healing work, there'ssomething about saying, Oh yeah,
it is my fault.
Like now I, there's like a wholehealed self that can go, Oh, I'm
going to get off on this thingthat I used to feel so much
sadness around and now I'm goingto kink out on it.
It's kind of like the thingyou're most afraid of.
You can fetishize it a littlebit and then you get rewarded.

(46:08):
You take your power back.
It's like, yeah, actually I'mtotally consenting to this.
I'm going to ask for it.
I'm going to own it.
And I'm going to delight in thefact that it's counterintuitive.
And I'm gonna, and I'm gonnareward, there's like a payoff in
the tension, there's a payoff inbreaking the rule, there's a
payoff in the naughtiness, andthere's also the reward of the

(46:29):
orgasm at the end of doingsomething you're sort of.
afraid of.
And I think that's a veryliberated.

Mel & Suzi (46:35):
Yeah.

Leah (46:36):
Thought form, however, I also think you have to be very
psychologically sound to dabblein some of this stuff.
And that's my little concernabout it.
And actually it's a little bitof my concern of putting it out
there as a sex educator and,and, hosting things.
I'm kind of like, you got toreally make sure people have
their shit together.

Willow (46:56):
Yeah, I really think you have to be well healed.

Mel & Suzi (47:00):
It's like, the same as like a BDSM thing though.
Everyone wants to try BDSM andthen they get like spanked one
time and they're like, holyshit, that's actually not okay.
But then sometimes they'realready into it and they don't
know how to say no.
So you have to kind of, you haveto push your boundaries to find
out what your boundaries are.

Leah (47:15):
Well, and any good BDSM organization, consent is like
the number one thing.
So they're safe words.
There's so much communicationthat's always been interwoven.
It's actually the thing thatthey do well, better than any
other sexual adventure peoplecan go on.
BDSM has the best reputation forboundaries and, and knowing when

(47:36):
you've reached a limit.
And

Willow (47:38):
Boundaries.
Because good Boundaries.
make you feel safe.
Like if you know, there's afence out there, then you can be
more wild and free and let, youknow, it's a container.
That's one of, one of the firstthings that we learned is
containment.

Leah (47:51):
It's people playing around without any mentor that are
gonna fuck shit up if they'rejust like, you know Winging it.
Yeah, right, right, but I don'tknow we're virgins in that area.

Willow (48:03):
Oh, yeah, so I'm curious for both of you, like, what,
what do you, what have you seen,like, Mel, with your generation,
as far as people getting intomore kinky stuff at this time in
their

Leah (48:15):
it seems like your generation is cooler about it
then

Willow (48:19):
like the the millennials?

Leah (48:21):
Like this is very foreign for us at 45.
Yeah.

Mel & Suzi (48:25):
people are a lot kinkier than we think.
Mm hmm.
I think it's a lot more common.
I think, uh, people go, Ooh, youknow, but I think, and there are
levels, um, of, of kink, aren'tthere?
Let's be fair.
Lots of people introduce basiclevels of kink and they don't
actually think it's kinky, likehandcuffs or whatever, to the
very, like, sort of extremelevel.

(48:47):
Like we, we interviewed thiswoman who was like, had, she was
in the BDSM scene in Japan andshe was tortured and stuff, so
like there was levels of

Leah (48:56):
I bet we would, what's her name?
Elizabeth?

Willow (48:59):
Yeah.
we just interviewed her too.
She was great.

Leah (49:02):
Wild story, right?
Like, holy

Mel & Suzi (49:05):
Oh, yeah.
She's fabulous.
So from here to here.
Yes.
And then you look at her andyou're like, huh, like, what?
I mean, she's delightful andyou're just like, like, huh?
Yeah.
But I so I dunno, I think peopleare a lot kinkier.
I think people do keep it, um,quiet, but strangely, I, I, I

(49:26):
think people are still very intosex.
I think people think that you're50 and something dies inside.
I think for most women, actuallyit reignites and yeah, and and
that, that could be why thereare so many women with toy boys,
because they're like, Oh, youknow, the men are sort of going,
Oh, I'm kind of going the otherway.
And the women are going theother way.
I see a lot of that.

(49:47):
I see a lot of very frustrated,dissatisfied women and men who
sort of given up, which is kindof odd cause that's not what you
think, but the women haven't,but they don't know how, how to
do it, how to frame it.
What, what are they going to

Willow (50:02):
They're contending with their hormones too,

Mel & Suzi (50:04):
go?
And they've been in marriagesfor a long time and they haven't
basically,

Willow (50:07):
yeah.

Mel & Suzi (50:08):
well, there's all of that, and that is just a tsunami
of shit that starts withperimenopause menopause, it's
horrendous.
And then nobody cares.
I'm going to look forward

Willow (50:19):
Yeah, get started early before perimenopause, ladies.
Start ahead of time.

Mel & Suzi (50:24):
It's lovely.
I mean, I'm in that now it'sdelightful and nobody cares.
Nobody's interested.
Nobody knows what it does toyou.
And it is a very, very confusingtime for women.
And at least we are starting totalk about it more, but yeah,
that women are much more sexual,uh, 45 plus into their eighties,

(50:44):
for goodness sake, than wethink, and so they should be, I
mean, why should they shrivel upfor goodness sake.

Leah (50:50):
Here's here's a more specific question.
for you.
It's like I know like with myrelationship It's um, we have
our like favorite positions Weknow what guilt get each person
off And so there's just timeswhere we've gotten I don't want
to say bored because we havewe've got we get off great and
it's wonderful and it's fun.
But it's like when that, whenthat feeling was like, hey, do

(51:12):
you want to have sex?
I'm like, sure, you know, like Ican take it or leave it, you
know, versus like being reallyexcited to co create something.
And I remember what it was like,you know, that first year and we
were doing tantra sessions everynight and lighting all the
candles.
We'd start with the bath and itwas like this whole thing.
And there was a mirror, his hiscloset had a mirror and we would

(51:33):
watch ourselves fuck.
And I just, We don't have amirror like that anymore.

Willow (51:37):
Maybe you need to get one.

Leah (51:38):
Well, I have a giant mirror, but there's no good way
to set it up in the bedroom.
That doesn't screw up the designof the bedroom.
So I don't know if you run intolike sort of the routine
obstacles.

Mel & Suzi (51:50):
I mean, I think it's normal for everyone who's who's
been together a long time but Imean it you have to you do
really have to talk about it allthe time and you have to kind of
Plan it and and it sounds a bitboring and I've said this to
Suzi but you do have toPrioritize sex.
I'm a big believer in that likethe the couples that kind of

(52:11):
communicate and they prioritizeit which sounds a bit like I've
planned this But sorry, that wasa kind of American accent, I
didn't mean to do that.

Willow (52:19):
That's okay, we do English accents all the time.
Yeah.

Mel & Suzi (52:23):
they, um, it works and you basically, it has to be
a priority in your life to theextent that you're not going to
do something else.
I mean, not something like it'sreally important, like spend
time with, you know, uh, youknow, your children or whatever.
But I mean, like.
Okay.
I'm not going to go and see thatfriend, or I'm going to stop
working.
You have to prioritize it.
And I don't think people do atall, where they get further and

(52:46):
further in the relationship.
And it's just like, I could goto sleep to be honest with you.
I got to get up at six.
I've got a presentation.
You have to just fight all ofthat.
And sometimes that's the hardestthing, but you have to
consciously do it becauseotherwise, if you're never going
to get anywhere together, andthat's, that's really important
to, uh, to me, to my husband islike prioritizing and

(53:09):
consciously doing it.
And sometimes it, it ebbs andflows.
Sometimes it, you're good at itand sometimes you're not so good
at it, but you just consciouslykeep working at it, and then it
works.

Leah (53:19):
Yeah.
And I think this idea of likespontaneous sex is kind of
overrated, you know, I think ifpeople think that that's just
the sex is just going to happenbecause want to do it.

Mel & Suzi (53:28):
It's so, it's, we had this, uh, um, psychologist
on early on when we startedpoddng and she said, she was
talking about spontaneous, it'sspontaneous and responsive
desire, isn't it?
And she talks about responsiveand she, uh, spontaneous, sorry.
And should, if you think aboutit, when you first meet somebody
like Suzi talking about the guyin the Porsche or whatever,
you've got all dressed up,you've worked out your outfit,

(53:50):
you smell good.
You look good.
It's like a whole, you haven'tjust gone, okay, I'm going out
with the guy in the Porsche anda pair of track pants.
You've gone through a whole,I've gotten my nails done.
You've gone through a lot ofpreparation and you're going,
you're going to the date ready,you're amped up kind of thing.
So it's not really thatspontaneous when you think about
it.
And I thought that was sointeresting.

(54:11):
Cause I'd never thought of thatbefore.
Like when you're dating, whenyou're like looking like on the,
what's the nice way of puttingit out in the hunt, like you
are, she's consciously looking,um, she's dating.
She's consciously, which is anormal thing to do.
She'd been with somebody foreight years.
She should go out there and doher thing.

(54:32):
She should.
You know, have fun.
Otherwise, your life is short.
But she's consciously doing it.
She's consciously looking forit.
You're amped up, your body,everything.
I'm constantly in a form play.
Your mind is, yeah, is ready forit.
You're, you're dressed likeyou're thinking about, you know,
the way you look.
Well, you don't when you'refurther down in a relationship.
Yeah, you do when you go out fora date, but it's not the same

(54:54):
thing, is it?
Date night.
I'm constantly wearingcrotchless panties just in case.
There you go.
There

Leah (54:58):
get some of those.

Mel & Suzi (55:00):
There you go.

Willow (55:01):
you should.
wear them every day around thehouse Leah.

Leah (55:04):
I, uh

Mel & Suzi (55:05):
you never know.
She never knows.
When the cable guy comes and I'mlike, Oops.

Willow (55:10):
part Matt's going to come forward?

Mel & Suzi (55:13):
Oh my god.
You never know.

Leah (55:14):
The cable guy!

Willow (55:16):
cable guy! You guys could play that.
That sounds fun.
Yeah, I like what you're sayingnow.
And I like.
I like that what I'm always kindof having couples do is like do
a full moon ritual and a newmoon ritual like at least twice
a month where you're doing amore like on the calendar
intimacy date night tantra datewhatever you want to call it

(55:36):
night.
Where you're spending two atleast hours if not more like in
intimacy together like exploringeach other's bodies and finding
out what you like and figuringit out together and new
positions and just Just, justplaying in the playground
together.
And I think that then reallyinforms all the rest of the sex
you have the rest of the month.

(55:57):
like, then if you go for aquickie or you have the sort of
routine position that you alwaysgo to, it's infused with this
recent, more, um, conscious, youknow, thing that you had on the
calendar.

Leah (56:10):
Yeah, I just think like, I think life would just be so much
more fun if couples in generaljust got passionate about having
adventures when it comes to,relationships.
Whether that's on intimacy orcommunication or sexuality or
vacations, it's like looking atconnection as being just a fun
adventure that you never stoplearning about.

(56:30):
And it gets so easy for our jobsand our kids and stress to take
over those kinds of thoughts andpriorities and conversations.
And yeah, I really wonder if, ifthe breakup rate would change.
If that was really encouragedculturally.

Mel & Suzi (56:47):
I think it would.
I think that's, but it's alsojust like, it's so hard when
you've been with someone for solong.
Like, you're like, how, how doyou change the structure that
you're, you know of, especiallycause you know, you're so
conscious of the other person'sfeelings as well.
I think that was a lot of whatmy, what at the end of the

(57:08):
relationship.
Um, we were so conscious, I, Iwanted to be so conscious of
him.
I'm like, no, he's working hard.
I know he's working late.
And so I know he doesn't want tohave sex.
I'm like, I'm working hard andI'm working late.
So like, maybe I'll justmasturbate beside him and I'll
just like, make sure that I havemy orgasm and he can do his in
the morning.
We can just like, still live ourlives like this.
I'm like, I'm happy, but like,we're fine.
And I think that's, I thinkthat's a lot of people's

(57:28):
relationships.
And yeah, I don't know what thesolution is.
I think obviously communicatingmore, but some, somehow being
selfish in the way that you wantto talk about it too.
Does that make sense?

Leah (57:38):
It's like no longer being complacent,

Willow (57:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
like, what Mel was saying.
Like you have to put the workin.
you have to do.
the time.

Mel & Suzi (57:46):
You do.
Otherwise it just

Leah (57:48):
it's almost like I want to change the language.
It's like, let's don't call it,put the Work in like what a
fucking drudgery.
It's like, let's put the play

Mel & Suzi (57:54):
I know.
It is a horrible expression andI do say that.
It's like, it sounds awful.
But like, put the time in.
Put

Willow (58:02):
Sometimes it is.
work, though.
Like, let's not sugarcoat iteither, you know?
Yeah.
put the play in.
It could be fun, it could beplayful, It could be

Leah (58:10):
Yeah.
Especially when you're dealingwith those emotions, you know,
like Suzi was saying, it's like,you know, it's a trigger, you
know, there's going to be somedefensiveness

Mel & Suzi (58:19):
A hundred percent.
But if you talked more and youkind of brought the barriers
down, the negativity, it getseasier.
Like it's, the firstconversation is never easy, but
you have to keep going.
And the assumption is you can'tassume you're going to have one
conversation and solve all ofyour problems.
That's never going to happen,but you just got to start.

(58:40):
And the more you talk, theeasier it is.
But I think that's the problem.
People don't start.
They just keep going andsweeping it under the

Leah (58:47):
You're right.
twice and it doesn't go well andthen they don't ask for help and
do get tools.
Yeah.

Willow (58:53):
Yeah, sometimes you gotta get that outside
perspective as well.
Coach or therapist or something.

Mel & Suzi (58:58):
Yeah, well, they, they try and achieve too much
from one conversation.
You can't try and solve, youknow, the whole world's problems
in one conversation, and that'spart of it.
You got to maybe start openingthat door, start finding a
glimmer, and then the door willkeep opening, but you got to
start, it's got to be a process.
Right.
And somebody has to start itgenerally in a couple, one

(59:20):
person's

Willow (59:21):
Layer by layer.

Leah (59:22):
Well with that, I mean, so much fun.
Loved hanging out with youladies.
We look forward to hanging outon your show coming up.
And, um, I would just love toknow, like, just from both of
you, what would you like toleave our audience with?
what is something, what's alittle gem?
What's a little piece of advicethat you would like to share as
a closing?

Mel & Suzi (59:44):
God, such a good question.
Mel, darling, that is, um, letme start it off.
Um, I mean, ladies and gents whoare listening, I think sharing
your orgasm with someone else isalways not always, but is a more

(01:00:06):
exciting thing.
And when you do it openly andhonestly, and you put the other
person's orgasm before your own.
Yeah.
Then it's.
It's a new experience for bothof you, and, um, work on other
people's orgasms.

Leah (01:00:22):
Yeah, yeah.

Mel & Suzi (01:00:24):
Be generous, be generous lovers.

Leah (01:00:26):
lovers

Mel & Suzi (01:00:26):
generous.
Be generous.
That's a good one.
Generous.
Yeah, I mean, I would, I supposeI would take it more on the
relationship side.
I think a lot of people are verynegative and they think they're
never going to find love andit's all very difficult and I
think we live in doom and gloom.
And it isn't, but I'm just um,there, there is love and you can
have spectacular relationships.
But You can't not do anything.

(01:00:48):
You have to, we use the wordwork, you have to put the effort
in.
You have to move thisrelationship.
It's not going to just go alongon its own, and that's the
advice I would give.
Keep communicating, keep, um,trying to I, I guess you want to
thrive in a relationship, right?
So keep trying to do that foreach other and you will get

(01:01:12):
there and it won't always befantastic and life goes in ebbs
and flows.

Willow (01:01:15):
I love

Leah (01:01:16):
I love that.
So be a more generous lover andif you want a thriving
relationship, co create it.
Don't sit on your laurels

Willow (01:01:25):
stop.
Keep going.

Leah (01:01:27):
and, and put the effort

Mel & Suzi (01:01:29):
Exactly.
Just like your orgasm.
don't sit on, don't sit on yourass, make it yourself.

Leah (01:01:34):
Thank you.
Thank you

Willow (01:01:35):
both so much.
So you all can find these twolovely ladies over at their
podcast.
Tell us again where they canfind you, where all the places
you put your podcast

Mel & Suzi (01:01:45):
Yeah.
so, uh, you can find Share MyTruth, uh, pod on literally
anywhere you get your podcasts.
Um, you can also go to any ofour socials,@sharingmytruthpod,
uh, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.
You can check out what we looklike.
We are so cute.
Especially Mel.
Biggest MILF if I know, um, butyeah, go check us out, uh,

(01:02:05):
follow us.
You guys can comment on us.
You guys can also go towww.sharemytruth.Com or you can
actually leave us a voicemail,um, or email us with your own
truths and we will reply.
You can maybe be on the pod aswell if you'd so like, and we
can't wait to talk to you andhang out and share your truths
with us.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
We love sharing.

(01:02:26):
We love to hear stories.

Leah (01:02:28):
Awesome.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for joining usand please stay tuned.
The Dish is up next with Dr.
Willow and Leah.
Love, love, love.

Announcer (01:02:38):
Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Leah (01:02:42):
Okay, dishing it up.

Willow (01:02:44):
Yeah, that was so fun.
Just I love to like, um, youknow, just the different
perspectives from the differentgenerations.
I think that's fascinating.
There is a book.
I don't know the name of it.
I don't know anything about it.
But my mom was reading it andshe was like, this is so
interesting.
Like the way these kids areraised.
And I think I was talking toanother one of our Dakini
friends recently.

(01:03:05):
And they were just talking aboutlike how our generation, like
the end of the Gen Xers,

Leah (01:03:12):
hmm.

Willow (01:03:13):
Really got spoon fed this, like, you can do it, like
fucking Nike commercial, youknow, like you can do it, just
do it.
It's like you, that, that youcan accomplish anything that you
put your mind to.
And, and I believe you can, Idon't know if I believe that
because I'm of that

Leah (01:03:29):
Right, right.
I know I do too, because I wasalso, that was really drilled
into

Willow (01:03:33):
me.
Yeah.
But it's like, it's fuckinghard.
It's hard to just do the thingthat you make the dream come
alive.
Like that's why people don't doit.
Right.
Because it is hard.

Leah (01:03:46):
It's pretty awful when you can't.
Like

Willow (01:03:49):
a fucking failure.
Yeah.
So there's also this like shadowelement to it of like, you know,
and if you don't, then youfucking suck.

Leah (01:03:57):
right, right, right, right, right, right.

Willow (01:04:00):
little tangent there, but just, just, it's interesting
to think about, um, sexualitythrough the lens of, of, of the
generations.
I think we should definitely behaving some Gen Zers.
Well, we've had, um, one forsure that we, um, spoke with, I
think.

Leah (01:04:16):
I mean technically you're a millennial.

Willow (01:04:18):
No, I'm not.

Leah (01:04:20):
Yeah, you are.
I've looked up the generationsnow a bunch.
78 was the last year for the GenXers.

Willow (01:04:26):
Oh, so

Leah (01:04:26):
yeah.
So, technically.

Willow (01:04:28):
You are right on the

Leah (01:04:29):
I am right on the cusp.
All my sisters are Millennials.

Willow (01:04:33):
Well, I don't feel like a millennial.

Leah (01:04:35):
I feel like I'm in the middle of Gen X and Millennial,
and

Willow (01:04:38):
too.
Yeah.
We're both on the cusp.

Leah (01:04:40):
there's, there's two, um, actual, like, Gen X is super
wide.
So, Matt, who was born in 1969,I'm born in 1978.
We're both Gen Xers, but we havedifferent music preferences.
I mean, there's so manydifferences for us.
Um, and really the like, there'slike two sets of baby boomers

(01:05:01):
too.
It's all very confusing.

Willow (01:05:03):
not very confusing.
There's a whole book on it,though, out there, people.
I don't know the name of it.

Leah (01:05:07):
Um, I will say that that therapist I was referring to
earlier in the episode, VanessaMarin, is the sex therapist who,
um, had some really good Advice,especially for more vanilla
minded people, not, not big sexadventurers, but really, you
know, sound stuff for everyday,everyday relationships.

Willow (01:05:30):
Awesome.

Leah (01:05:31):
And I think the most, the hardest thing for me with this
episode was I was having so manytechnical difficulties.
I had to log in, log off, and mycomputer died like in the middle
of the episode and I had itplugged in, but, uh, yeah, it
totally went dead and no onegets plugged in.
Had to change plugs.

Willow (01:05:48):
Oh, gosh.

Leah (01:05:49):
I just hate it when that fucking

Willow (01:05:51):
We got off on a tangent on BDSM right at that point,

Leah (01:05:54):
right, I know.

Willow (01:05:55):
juicy.
But then you came back on, and Imean, it was all good.

Leah (01:05:59):
it was all good.
So everyone, please tune in totheir podcast and leave them a
comment on their show lettingthem know that you heard of
their show because you heard our

Willow (01:06:12):
Our show.
Yeah, that'd be fun.

Leah (01:06:15):
All right sister.
We'll talk to you later.
Love, love, love everyone!

Announcer (01:06:19):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Techology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments,likes subscribes, and
suggestions matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.

All Episodes

Mel Krangle & Suzi Sheckter: Is Your Generation BAD at Sex? The Surprising Truth About Who's Really Better at Sex & Why | #130

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mel Krangle & Suzi Sheckter: Is Your Generation BAD at Sex? The Surprising Truth About Who's Really Better at Sex & Why | #130