Chris Ferrell: Resilience in the Face of Adversity

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
All right everybody, I want to welcome you back to another
episode of the Shadows podcast. This week we are starting our
Grit series. So for the month of September,
we are going to focus on military veterans from all
different branches and meet personally.
I could not think of a better guest than the guest we have
here today. He was someone who came out to

(00:21):
Edwards Air Force Base couple ofmonths back, saw the name, saw
the bio come across on e-mail. I was intrigued.
Went to hear him speak the 2nd and he he was maybe like 2
minutes into speaking and I was like, got to get this guy on the
podcast. I have to a story was super
powerful. He's an amazing storyteller.
And when I knew we were going tobe forecast in the month of

(00:42):
September, he had to be guest number one that we had lined up.
So Chris Farrell is here today. He is a retired United States
Air Force explosive ordinance disposal.
So he guy, which if you're not familiar, if you're a civilian
out there listening, they're badasses.
He's a Purple Heart recipient, fitness advocate.
I mean, he's he's got some certifications that he's got

(01:03):
rolling in. He survived A devastating blast
that nearly took his life. He is recovery journey was long,
grueling and filled with exactlywhat this podcast is all about.
Those shadows moments, physical pain, emotional battles,
challenge of rebuilding his identity beyond just the
uniform. And he's done a great job of
doing that. But through grit, fitness,

(01:24):
faith, the service of others, hehas transformed his pain into
purpose and he is spreading thatmessage for other people out
there. On this episode, we're going to
walk through his journey, the shadows he endured, the lessons
he's learned, and how he emergedstronger on the other sides of
Chris Man. Thank you for joining us here
today. I'm excited.

(01:44):
Brother, I'm going to tell you this is it's absolutely my
honor. And for these you don't know,
you know, the first time I got to Ctrip was in the gym.
So if any of you have ever been in the gym with him, it's one of
those things that when you see him like.
I don't think I'm going to. Talk to him.
I'm just going to leave him on his own over there, you know,

(02:05):
so, but absolutely incredible person, you know, and it's an
absolute honor to be on the podcast with you.
It's funny you say that because you were in the gym and you
weren't one of the the normal guys in the gym in the morning.
And Calvin was like, check out that dude over there.
And I was like, I'm not messing with that guy.
He can he can keep the cables. So that's that's good.

(02:25):
So, but no, so I'm I'm going to open things up man, with a
couple of lightning round questions here for you first.
Yeah, of course. Look.
A book or a movie that has just absolutely resonated with you.
On combat. So the book on count on combat
and then the book on killing. Both of those books were books

(02:49):
when I was young. You know, I had a chief of mine.
His name is Al Schneider. Phenomenal.
I mean, he helped shape my career.
You know, UD Chief, when I saw him, first time I ever met him,
you know, he had the Tower of Power.
You know, I was a young airman in Afghanistan.
I watched him walk into our shop.
You know, he had his jump wings.He had his, you know, his EOD

(03:10):
badge and then his dope on a rope.
And I was like, who is this guy?I want to be him.
Yeah. And that's all I thought about.
And as the deployment started going, you know, we're starting
to realize that I needed to be able to find a way to deal with
the things that we're seeing andthe things that we're doing.
So those two books were absolutely incredibly important

(03:32):
in the navigation of everything going throughout my time in EUD.
You'll have those in the link description for this if you were
interested in checking those out.
Second question for you, what isa pet peeve of yours?
Oh man, wheat willpower. Specifically with me.

(03:55):
That was my biggest thing because I fought it.
You know, there you have temptations all around all the
time and not being able to find the willpower to either stay
away from something, you know, whether it's a type of addiction
because I was, I was there, you know, finding things.

(04:16):
You know, I've never had an addictive personality, but I
could see how it's a very easy thing to fall into so weak.
Willpower was one of my big pet peeves, especially running as a
as a teammate, as a team leader.And I didn't really understand
it at the time, you know, and asI've gotten older, I've now

(04:37):
understood how it actually processes through your brain and
everything like that. It's not always necessarily weak
willpower, you know, it's the unknown, you know, I was not the
smartest person. So it just kind of went through
my brain and out the other than,you know, women in one year, out
the other. And I was like, I've got to do
the job, you know? So having drive, that's the,

(04:57):
that's the big thing. And then willpower all falls in
accordance with that. OK, most embarrassing song on
your workout playlist? Oh, man, I mean, it may be
embarrassing to some people, butI got a Barbie girl rocking in
there. Come off our let's go.
And I'm going to tell you that'sthat.

(05:19):
That brings me back some memories.
That's some nostalgia for me, like 2008 Iraq.
That don't work out the Barbie girl.
I don't know what is it. What body part do you work out
to buy Barbie Girl? Oh man, squats.
Squats thrust. I can't abductor.
Abductor. Now that's funny you say that.

(05:40):
I did that the other day. I did the abductor abductor the
other day. Because, you know, my wife does
it all the time and she just crushes it.
And then one of my teammates, hecame in here walking like a baby
giraffe one day. And he's a stud, you know, he's
a former Marine. And I was like, I can do that.
It took three days for that to heal.
Oh, it was just like. Yeah.

(06:02):
And I don't, I was definitely not listening to Barbie Girl
with that one. So I think that may have
affected my workout. OK, yeah, so I know tomorrow's
leg day for me. So tomorrow will be abductor.
Abductor to Barbie Girl. We we were at the gym and we saw
some WWE wrestlers and they weredoing abductor, abductor.
And I'm like, well, that's good enough for them.
I'll do it. Absolutely.

(06:23):
All right, Without jumping too far ahead in your story, what
was a moment in your recovery where you actually surprised
yourself? Moment in my recovery where I
actually. Surprised myself was when I made
the decision that I had to startliving and not existing.

(06:44):
And that was after a suicide attempt, obviously.
Obviously, obviously a failed one or I wouldn't be here
talking to you. So we did a lot of things.
Glad that I was not very good atthat.
Yeah, Yeah. I think we all are with that.
And OK, what does resiliency mean to you in one sentence?

(07:06):
Family, so being there for my family.
That was the thing, so. Resiliency, you know, when
you're looking at it, it's such a man, just such a multifaceted
thing. So putting it into one sentence.
The family is the reason. Why I stayed here?
So when I try to put it into onesentence, it would be the act of

(07:31):
being able to push yourself through things that have already
been traumatic in your life and realize that there's other
things on the other side, and that's just another chapter in
your story that you're writing. OK, well let's, let's jump into
it. Let's get into your story here.
So first, where did you grow up and what were some of your
hobbies, interest, goals, aspirations that Chris had as a

(07:54):
kid? So I was a Navy brat, you know,
my dad, when he was a mine man in the Navy, so he built
underwater mines and stuff like that.
So I guess it was a natural transition for me.
I'm homecoming into this side. So I grew up around.
Those type of guys in the, you know, in the Philippines and in
Guam and stuff like that. And then when my dad retired out
of Virginia, he actually retiredas a recruiter out of Arkansas,

(08:16):
but. So I lived in a lot of different
places, but growing up I would say Louisiana.
So I moved there when I was in 4th grade.
Like my dad retired from the Navy and then he was like, you
know what, We're going to go to Bossier City, LA, and most
people, you know, they pronounceit's Louisiana.
So they're like Bossier City or however they want to pronounce
it. So I just tell people,
Shreveport, you know? Yeah, just keep it simple.

(08:39):
Keep it simple. So growing up, you know, I was
always, always loved sports. That was my thing, you know.
But being 1/2 Filipino half Irish kid.
I was a 98 LB freshman in high school.
So I was always really strong, but I was always small.
So I was like, you know what? I'm playing football, I'm

(09:01):
playing baseball. Like those were my 2 loves and I
was like, this is what I'm goingto do.
So you know, young Chris growingup and we were not, you know, my
parents worked really hard, but you know, it's a it's a rough
life. You know, you transition from
the military over to the civilian side and you know, you
both parents are working sometimes my mom was working 2

(09:22):
jobs. My dad was driving trucks over
the road. So I ended up as mom, dad, older
brother, all of that for my two brothers.
So I didn't really get to play sports until I was, I want to
say 6th grade is when I was ableto start playing baseball.
I was watching my brothers play,you know, but I would go with my

(09:42):
mom to the games they're playing.
And here I am, you know, pseudo husband sitting on the side with
their snacks and stuff like that.
So I developed this hunger for sports.
So by the time I got to play, I was already behind the power
curve. So I had to play as hard as I
could for as long as I could because I didn't know what kind
of time frame I was going to have.
And then that all, you know, culminated with I was like, I'm

(10:04):
going to be a high school coach.You know, the young 1617 year
old Chris. I was like, that's what I'm
going to do. I knew what the coaches had done
for me, you know, because my dad, he was gone because he was
trying to make money for the family.
So I have like these these men in my life that stepped in and
tried to help guide who I was going to be and what kind of
person that they need to be. And, you know, football back

(10:25):
then is a lot different than, you know, the way the coaching
is now. You know, both have very good
parts of it, both have very bad parts of it.
But they they developed me into a very tough individual at a
young age. So that's what I want to do.
I wanted. To be a coach and 911 happened,
so it changed everything for me.That when you decided to join

(10:47):
the military. It was.
I was a senior in high school when it happened.
Wow. OK.
And walk us through the process.Did you immediately go to the
recruiter? Did you think about it for a
couple of? Days or Yeah.
So, you know, I'm at Bossier. City, Louisiana.
So I'm at Bossier High School. We have Barksdale Air Force Base

(11:09):
right there, so. My wife and I were just.
Dating at the time, we were in first period, so it was ROTC,
you know, for me, ROTCI said. Oh, man, that's a real easy A+.
My girlfriend's in there, so I'mgoing to, you know, that's what
I'm going to do. And she was the commandant for,
you know. For our entire ROTC.
Detachment. So we were sitting over in the
chief's office. We walked across and you know,

(11:31):
back in those days we wouldn't have a flat screen TV's.
We had those big boxy ones that are sitting up in the car, you
know? Worried if it's going to fall
off the. Stand or anything so I walk in
and I saw the entire class staring at the TV.
So I looked up and I was like, Ithought it was a movie, but it
was a tower is coming down and then we started getting all the

(11:51):
alerts. You know, we had a bunch of base
kids that were there, including my wife.
My father-in-law was stationed at Barksdale at the time.
So everything went on full shutdown.
And I had like, this overwhelming feeling of anger
and distraught and just pain, you know, watching this happen
because we had teachers that they had family members that

(12:11):
were in the towers at the time that they lost, you know, and
they had no contact with them. And I knew at that time I was
going to join the service in some capacity.
I just didn't know how. But in my brain, I still had to,
you know, degree plan and stuff like that.
I was like, you know what, I'll join.
I'll become an officer and that was the start of it.
So I didn't enlist immediately afterwards.

(12:33):
I went to college for a little bit, went to a JUCO right there
cuz I kept my grades high enoughto continue to play the sports
that I wanted to. I didn't really.
Point 52.5 to safe yeah, that's.Right, 2.5 I think that's what I
graduated with like a 2.5 or 2.6, assuming my wife.
My wife on the other hand, just,she's just a wonderful,

(12:57):
brilliant person. So she had, you know, she could
have went wherever she wanted. So she ended up staying in
Shreveport, LA with me. My in laws.
They got orders out to Cannon Air Force Base where here I am
all over again. They got stationed out here when
it was ACC base. So Lauren stayed and we went to
college. I went to the JUCO that was

(13:19):
right there. She went to the LSU in
Shreveport and we had some family stuff with my parents.
You know, they ended up getting divorced and separated.
So I was like in the middle of the night, you know, we were in
college. We both withdrew from school and
I was like, I need to leave. Like my life was, you know, we
had the Brady Bunch family and Ihad a wonderful childhood.

(13:43):
I could never say anything I'll of it.
Then I was like, I was lost and I was like, what am I going to
do? So my father-in-law, he was
like, you guys move. Here and then my mother, my late
mother-in-law. To like move here to Clovis.
So we did. We packed up overnight.
We moved to Clovis. I had my thoughts were I was
going to come here and then I was going to go to ENMU and play

(14:04):
baseball. So and the transfer stuff, you
have to wait a whole year. I'm a very impatient person.
All my friends were enlisting and deploying and, you know, all
of them are Marines or in the Army or I was like, I've got to,
I've got to join. So I didn't even tell my wife.
I, I, you know, here I was working 4/4 jobs at a time

(14:28):
because I didn't want my in lawsto think that I was ungrateful.
I felt like if I was too, if I was in the house too long, I was
being a, you know, just like a little homesteader.
And I was like, yeah, I was like, I don't know, I don't want
to do that. So I went to the little Clovis
mall that's still here, looks the exact same.
And I went to the recruiter's office and I was like, hey, I

(14:50):
want to join. You know this is after.
Talking with friends and family and all of them are like.
Join the Air Force and I was like Air Force.
I was like. What do I look like to you guys?
You know, 'cause I only had limited interaction with the
military. You know, my dad, when he was in
the Navy, you know, I grew up around the mine men and the
Seals and all that stuff. And I was like, we're not doing
that. And then they broke down to me.

(15:12):
They're like, Chris, you can do a cool job in the Air Force.
I was like, OK, so walked in therecruiter's office and I'd done
some research, you know, and that's back when we had, you
know, the computers weren't as fast as they were now.
And I was like, I want to go pair rescue.
So when I remember the guy's name, his name was Step Sergeant

(15:33):
Armilio. And he was like, cool.
So went did the pass test, all of that stuff.
So it was for either going to becombat control of pair rescue.
You know, I was 19 years old at the time.
I was in great shape, so the past test wasn't anything for
me. And then they did all the
medical stuff. So I failed my eye exam.
Eye exam was 2200 in both eyes. So basically if you're standing,

(15:57):
die. Perception.
Yeah. So like you and me both.
Yep. Man, I couldn't, I couldn't read
his name tag from 5 feet away. So he was like, well you failed
your eye exam so you have to have 2070 correctable to 2020.
I was like, OK, So what can I do?
I was like, I'm not doing an office job, man.
That's not me. And it's like, what?

(16:18):
You can do EOD. And I was like, EOD What?
What's? I don't understand what that is.
And he was like, well, you disarm bombs.
I was like, let me get this straight.
So with that eyesight, I can't do pair rescue or combat
control, but I can disarm bombs.He was like, yeah, and there's a
bonus. I was like, sign me up, man.

(16:39):
Still had. Bonus.
Boas yeah, I think it was. I think then it was like a
$12,000 bonus and I'm a poor kid.
That's like $1,000,000 to me. So yeah.
Signed up from there, went back to my in laws.
House and I was like, hey, so I joined the Air Force, you know,
and then me and Wendell, my father-in-law, we sat down and

(17:00):
talked about it. My wife was like OK, you know no
conversation. I just went and did it, which
was always one of the things that we have a very in a very,
what's the word I'm looking for?I'm aggressive in that nature.
Like I can't even think of the word of my brain doesn't work.

(17:22):
Like impulsive. Or very, yes, very impulsive.
Like when I want something, I'm going to do it now.
Like that's what I want. So that's what ended up
happening. So I got put in the delayed
enlistment. Program.
I was in the DEP for nine monthsbefore I was able to go to basic
training because of the backlog at EOD school and then that

(17:43):
started the process. Yeah, it's it's crazy what that
bonus does for people who have not been in that have not been
to maps and they go over your career and stuff with you and
they say, well, you can go in this career field and get a
bonus and you're like, forget the fact that I can't see and I
have to disarm bombs, but I'm getting 12,000 that.
Was. I, I actually had to go back for

(18:06):
mine because I went in and failed the debt perception test.
They pulled me to the side and they're like, hey, sorry, but
you're going to have to get thisthing called a waiver.
And I thought waivers were like really hard to get.
Now you get a waiver for anything.
But I was like a waiver and they're like, yeah, you have to
come back and then go see an eyedoctor and they'll write you a
waiver. And the longer it took, the more

(18:27):
I was like, I don't think I wantto do this, but I remember going
in to see the doctor and he's like, yeah, your vision is
trash. But I mean, I'll write you away.
We just can't fly a plane or anything.
And SI ended up with Cyber, so you're kind of the same.
They didn't tell me I could disarm bombs.
But yeah. So with that you go in And what
was the the for people out there, especially non military

(18:49):
listening, what type of trainingwent into EOD?
So you know, I didn't have. Much of an idea before I left
for basic of what the career field had.
I mean, there wasn't a lot of visibility on it, you know,
because we had, you know, EOD has been doing work since, you
know, Vietnam. I mean, they, they really came

(19:09):
out of Vietnam fighting against the BC and stuff like that with
all the booby traps. But I didn't really understand
what EOD was. You know, we had all of our, the
starting with World War 2 and everything like that.
But the VC like that really likebrought the improvised devices
in. So doing research, I was like,

(19:29):
what am I, what, what kind of PTdo I need to do and stuff like
that? So I just based all of my PT off
of what the para rescue and combat control pipeline look
like. I was like, well, I mean, it's
got to be similar to this which.At the time it.
Wasn't, you know, we've built upa lot since then, you know, 20
plus years. So I was, you know, running up
and down 6084, which is not recommended for anybody.

(19:51):
Whoever comes to Clovis, NM, don't run up that that road.
It's very, it's very dangerous. But I had, you know, the little
skip free Walkman, you know, I had the little CD player.
Yeah, you're burning CDM. That's right.
So I did. I just, I ran miles on miles on
miles. I did a ton of calisthenics
because all they ever told me, it was like when you go in, they

(20:14):
don't care if you're muscly, they don't care about that.
They want to know that you can do push ups, sit ups, flutter
kicks, pull ups, all of that stuff, and you need to have good
cardio. So I think I went into the
military at light. I think they wavered because I
think I was like 135 lbs when I joined, which I was a little bit
on the light side. I ended up leaving basic at like

(20:34):
1:45 or 1:50. Yeah, I gained weight while I
was there. Yeah, yeah.
But then transitioning. Over to EOD school.
Once I graduated there, I got stuck at Medina.
So that's where they used to have the EOD preliminary course.
So we were there with SERE pair Rescue and Combat Control.
So we're all part of the same squadron.
The 342nd I want to say is what it was.

(20:56):
And I was stuck there. So I graduated basic, went there
and I was stuck there for four months because there was no
openings at EOD school. So my mindset flipped again and
I was like, I don't want to be you OD because all the guys I PT
Ed with, I just went out with the PJS and the controllers and
just PT Ed with them because we're just doing details all
day. And then I started changing my

(21:17):
mindset again, you know, and this was after, you know,
starting Chapman sacrificed, youknow, now our Medal of Honor
recipients. So everybody there, I mean, it
was just full of pride. And just like, we're going to do
this, we're going to eliminate the enemies.
And I'm sitting here, I'm like disarm bombs.
That's all I can think about because I had no idea what the

(21:40):
war would turn into at that time.
So I was pretty disgruntled being there at EOD school.
Then I went through EOD school. It was still a little bit of the
same, you know, it was an extremely hard school
academically. We started with 30 in our class
and we graduated 9 original, youknow.
So it was academically, it's oneof the toughest schools in the

(22:01):
military back then. It wasn't very physically
demanding, you know, you had to stay in shape, but it wasn't to
the point that it is what we've implemented in the last, you
know, 10 years. So I stayed in shape because I,
you know, I was around all thesecontroller candidates and P JS
and stuff like that. And I'm looking at them and, you
know, they all look like statuesand stuff like that.
And I was like, how what do I present myself in that manner?

(22:25):
I was like, so, you know, young in my military career, I was
like, OK, for me to have a face to face first impression, I need
to be some kind of physical specimen to where they're like,
you know, we shake hands and I'mlike, I'm going to break this
kid. He's tiny, get away from me kind
of thing. So that was the the start of my

(22:45):
military physical training, moving into the UD community and
then graduated, went to Charleston Air Force Base, South
Carolina first base, loved it. To get some a.
Jan. Anybody gets an opportunity to
go to join Base Charleston, you need to jump on it.
And I showed up a month in. I got my first Tasker for

(23:05):
Afghanistan for I graduated in August from EOD school in 2004,
took some time off and then I got tasked in late September for
my first trip to Afghanistan in January of O5.
Was that the one with the blast?Is that the one where that took
place? So how many times did you go to

(23:27):
Afghanistan? So I was in Afghanistan 4 times,
in Iraq once. So I deployed to Afghanistan in
2005, 2007, 2009 and ten 2012 and 13.
And then I was in Iraq in 2008. So you where was which one was
the 2000 situation where? Well, what about the one where

(23:50):
you figured the, you know, the the robot was too dangerous, it
was too much of A risk to send that down there.
And you're like, you know what? I'm going to do it.
Oh, that was 2009 also. Wasn't all right, let's jump
into 2009 Afghanistan. So take us back to you had like
a close call and then there was the actual blast and injury.
So walk our listeners through that because you are an amazing

(24:12):
storyteller at this. Oh, I, I appreciate, you know,
it's a, it's easy for me to tellit because it's all my memory,
you know, 2000. So rolling into 2009, that was
my fourth deployment. My entire career started in 2005
though, so I, I never want to put that one off.
My first major incident was Juneof 2005.

(24:36):
My team leader stepped on a landmine and he was the first
casualty I ever worked on him. My civil engineer commander who
was it was his first time outside the wire and one of our
CE guys, we came across a old Russian ASP.
So you know, back in the day when the Russians and Afghans
fought, the Russians are like, it's cheaper, just leave

(24:58):
everything here. So he stepped on a landmine.
He was the first casualty I've worked on.
We saved all three casualties. And then young Chris, I was
like, this is awesome. You know, we saved everybody.
And I was like, this is how my entire career is going to go.
And looking back as 41 year old Chris back to that time frame,

(25:19):
I'm thankful for the things thatI've done and people that I've
been with and like these heroes that I've been around.
But I wouldn't have wished the things that I wished then
because my career did go that path.
I had like this black cloud overme that I was always around bad
things. I just always happened to come
out of it. So it took me into 2009, our

(25:43):
first, so my first close call in2009.
So my team gets there and we it's already been hot.
We had already lost two teammates.
We were in training while when we got notified of one of my
teammates, Brian Burkey that he was killed.
So and that's the area that we were going down to an RC South.

(26:04):
So the during that time frame, 2910 eleven time frame, it was
extremely volatile down there inthe Kandahar area, down all in
the South and southwest of Afghanistan.
I DS running prevalent. And then, you know, the, the the

(26:25):
ticks, the firefights out there were it was just everyday things
were going on. So the first route clearance
that we went on, you know, we'rejust like, all right, It's, it's
actually, it was the 15th also, you know, and we're sitting
there we're like, all right, this is going to be throughout

(26:47):
clearance. My team and I, we were super
unhappy because we're like, it'snot what we came here for.
I don't want to get with the combat engineers and just drive
these roads at 5 clicks an hour waiting to get hit.
So the we're probably 15 minutesinto the first mission and we
had an IED low order on our vehicle.

(27:09):
So for those we don't know, so alow order that you have a low
order and a high order, you're ahigh order.
That's a full detonation. The low order, it's a partial
detonation. And it was inside of a culvert.
And I was like, all right, here we go.
So I dismount the vehicle and it's in a culvert.
So the robot can't get down in there.
So I'm like, all right, let's godown in there.

(27:31):
So that's the first thing I saw.And it's all ammonium and
nitrate and aluminum. Make sure so and it's all over
the water. So the way that they had set it
up, they didn't do a full detonation.
If it would have, that whole culvert would have went, our
truck would have been the one that was hit.
And right away we're like, all right, this is how this
deployment starts. So we go about 3 ends up being

(27:55):
about two or three more hours. And it ended up being the
largest debt nation that I've ever seen in person that was not
a controlled debt by an EOD teamor anything like that.
So we're in the Oregon DOB at the time.
So it's just north of Kandahar. You know, you got Route 4 going
into route one. And we're on this patrol and

(28:15):
we're just creeping and we started seeing the local
villagers and they're all kind of sporadic and everything like
that. And they, as we're coming up,
you see them going off into buildings and things like that.
And that's a telltale sign that there's nothing good that's
going to happen. 2. Vehicles in front of us.
We had an RG, one of the route clearance vehicles, it's a type

(28:38):
of MRAP, and I had Victoria withme.
So my team member Derek Victor and then Luke Meffer was in the
UP gun. And right about then was what we
saw the explosion. So I watched the bumper fly off
of the RG, comes right across the top of our canopy.

(28:58):
And the first thing that I thinkis Luke just got beheaded.
I was like, he's dead. I heard him come down so I
thought it was just a body falling down.
And then I. Watched the RGI, watched the cab
just fly off of it. I was like, holy crap.
And I start looking back for Luke.
And then Luke was like, did you see that?
And I was like, yeah, me. I see it.

(29:21):
You're alive, you know, so now we have to push up.
And once we got there, it was full chaos.
You know, this is the engineer battalion that we're with.
They were out of Fort Carson. So we get down there and it was
the largest hole that I had seen, and it wasn't even a
culvert. It was dug into.
This had been going on for a long time.

(29:42):
It was just underneath the road and I could see white command
wire going off. So first thing that we had to do
was deal with the casualties. You know what I ended up finding
out. So the cab, the chassis was
still on the ground. I found the, so the actual MRAP
cab itself was 90 meters away. And then I found the turret 300

(30:06):
meters away. So I ended up estimating it to
be between 800 and 1000 lbs withthe type of damage that it did.
Like the entire Rd. was completely gone.
So we start moving through and, you know, we're trying to find
the couch. Sees two of them were killed
immediately. Glenn Stevenson was the team

(30:27):
daddy for that truck. He was the truck commander.
I was working on one of the other guys and my teammate
Victoria called me over. He's like, Chris, you got to
come over here. You know, they called me over
the radio. So I get over there and Glenn's
got like this very shallow breathing, you know, and it was
starting to get, you know, the the darker part of the day, like

(30:49):
the sun was going down. And if if you didn't know any
better, it was gorgeous. You know, except for all the
stuff going on. So I remember.
Looking down at Glenn and his breathing was super shallow and
then he stopped breathing and then his heart stopped.
So the first thing I did, I was like, Doc was already working on
another, the casualty. So I started doing chest
compressions on them. As I was.

(31:12):
Doing these chest compressions, like I could feel his ribs
breaking underneath my hands. And the only thing I can think
of, because him and I, we spoke earlier that day before the
mission, He's like, man, I'm ready to go home, you know, get
back to my family and everything, get back to real
life. So seeing his face laying there
that it just took me back to theconversations we were having.

(31:35):
I thought I was doing compressions for, you know, 60
seconds, maybe 120 seconds. Come to find out it was almost
20 minutes then trying to pull me off and everything.
And I just kept on going. Just, I kept on feeling the ribs
breaking, but I blacked out because I was like, got to save
them. Got to save them and I could
feel like his body was just expanding from the internal

(31:56):
damage that he had in it. So he pulled me off and they're
like he's he's gone man. So then the next thing we have
to do now is that we have to find out what actually happened.
So we start doing me and Victoria and Luke start doing
the post blast. We find the white lamp cord
start trailing it off out into the grape fields and one of the

(32:18):
tires from the MRAP that was destroyed was land.
It landed on the ground a foot and 1/2 from where we found the
power source. So the dude that set it off the
tire just missed him by a foot or two feet, you know, and we're
just like that start. That's when I started

(32:41):
questioning my faith, you know, like my faith in, you know, a
higher power God, things like this.
These are things that I was like, this dude was a very, you
know, wonderful person, had a whole life to live.
And then you have this evil person that is like, he just
lives through it. So that was the start of my that
deployment. And I was like, all right, we

(33:04):
know it's going to be bad. We're in South Afghanistan,
first mission together, and thisis what we're rolling to.
I appreciate you opening up and sharing that.
I mean, that is that is heavy, especially when you're
considering, you know, where your mindset was when you
started and you're like, oh, it's just going to be close

(33:26):
calls. It's just going to be, you know,
we're all going to be fine. At the end of the day.
It's almost like you, you, you take things for granted.
It didn't like the reality hits you.
And I mean, like you said, question and faith question and
so many things to that point andunderstand that it's just
getting started. Oh yeah, man.
And you know, for me, like for my team, you know, I've been

(33:48):
through this and they do that. I've been through this in my
career. So my go to was to
compartmentalize. So, you know, dark humor is what
it is. So yeah, I was like, we got back
and I was like, you know, I always when we had bad
incidents, I always took my teamto the boardwalk in Kandahar.
You know, you got Kandahar. I mean, it's huge, you know, if

(34:09):
you're not rolling outside the gate and stuff, you know, it's,
I mean, it's, it's beautiful, you know, you got all kinds of
things at your disposal. So I would take them to this
place. It was a Euro place and they had
a huge sign on the front and said Euros are for heroes.
So I would treat my team to lambEUR every time we had bad

(34:29):
incidents. We had too many trips to the
Euro place, you know, but that was our way to do it, you know.
And I was like, man, that was that was a bad incident, you
know? So we took care of it and then
we just kept going. And that's what ended up leading
to December. So kind of building to, to
December, you know, suppressed emotions and especially in, in a

(34:52):
lot of people that aren't in themilitary probably don't
understand us, but there's a lotof alpha male career fields out
there. And especially when you're
someone as bad ass as is EOD, but you know, sitting around
going out with everybody and sitting down and saying, Hey,
let's have a tough talk. Let's talk about our emotions,
you know, over some drinks. It's not something you're

(35:13):
necessarily going to do, especially when we put the the
the time out there as well. So when you left from being
around everybody else and you were by yourself in your
thoughts, what sort of you know,because obviously it's
suppressed emotions that you're going through.
It's probably what were you eventaking time to sit back and and

(35:35):
process the fear, the pain, the anger?
Or were you just suppressing it so deep and saying, let's go,
go, go, go, go. I'll get that on the back end.
Yeah. So that's the.
Way that I did it, I was AI was a very in the moment person.
Yeah, you know, and I felt like if I showed any inkling of pain
or sadness or anything like that, it would change the way

(35:58):
that my team looked at me. So all I did was I let myself
get consumed with anger. You know, they're almost like I
was like, let's roll. I was like, let's go on the next
mission. You know, that's all I cared
about. And it took me to a point where,
you know, and down the road it it affected every aspect of my
life, including during that timeframe, you know, because, you

(36:19):
know, we we have our core valuesin the Air Force, you know, and
for me, my family was never a priority.
The only thing I ever cared about was war, foreign soil and
my teammates, you know, my family was, you know, and God
bless my family for sticking around.
They should have left. I told them that all the time.

(36:39):
They should have left at every chance that they they had
because I was a terrible father,terrible husband.
You know, I was absentee even when I was there.
I wasn't there, you know, and a lot of it stemmed just from the
build up of it. So I'd get back to my room just
like after that incident, I would get back to my room.
The first thing I would do was like I'd get all my stuff for

(37:01):
the gym. I'd play my videos, you know,
cuz we had, you know, you had the laptops and then you had
the, you know, the, was it the morale drive on there?
You know, you're downloading music and all that stuff,
downloading your movies and I just.
Oh man. Oh yeah.
So then I just go to the gym andthat's what my team and I did.
So me, Tom, Victoria, Luke, all of us went to the gym together,

(37:24):
you know, and this is all beforeTony ended up arriving, which is
what ended up happening in December.
So we had one of our team mates,Mike, he got hit very early in
our deployment. So he got medevacked out.
The first thing we did was we requested Tony Campbell by name
to come replace him. You know, we had already trained

(37:46):
all together. We all went through our spin up
together and we're like, we wanthim here.
So they called him down, you know, so we got, we got the tech
that we wanted there. And during this time frame, you
know, we're running heavy soft operations and stuff like this.
So me, Victoria and Tom or the we're the special operations
support team. You know, we just kind of got

(38:06):
any soft unit that needed an EODteam.
It just kind of got we, you know, it's got put out like a
buffet. You know, it's like, oh, we need
you here, here, here and here. And that's what we were all
about. And then Tony wanted to do the
same thing. He was like, I want to be part
of the missions like this. You know, you're cutting the
head off the snake. Like, you know, our job was a

(38:27):
lot of times putting band aids on already bad things, you know,
because we'd show up and bad things that already started and
things like that. Especially if we were a response
element with the QRF, unless we were embedded, we were always
bad things that already started happening for us to come out.
He wanted to be on the end of it, that we were doing what we
were going to end bad things before they started, which is

(38:49):
what ended up leading into December.
So take us through a question just popped in my head, but they
have to hear that story first. Take us through December, take
us through what happens. And you know, once, once Tony's
there and then the the big, big shadows moment in your life.

(39:11):
Walk our listeners through that because you, you, like I said,
folks, I mean this, it's emotional to hear the story.
He he did a phenomenal job of just captivating a bunch of
senior NC OS by hearing this at at Edwards a couple of months
back. So if you don't mind, please
share that with our listeners. Yeah.
So I'm going to kind of take youguys back to that day.

(39:34):
During this time frame, I was attached to a SAS 22 SAS out of
the UK. For those of you don't know,
that's British Special Operations, that's your, that's
your tiered assets. I mean, that's your, that's the
guys you send in to go to do some really good things against
bad people. From the UK side of it, for our
coalition, you know what, we have been working with different
operational teams throughout. You know what we've got our US

(39:57):
soft teams are incredible and wegot the opportunity to work with
the the SAS guys. They need an EOD team.
So we had an IED facilitator this NAI that we had down.
In Nadi Ali, so the Kajaki area and stuff like that in southern
Afghanistan, this guy has already been known to have been

(40:20):
responsible for killing Americanand coalition as well as
Afghans. So our job was a killer capture
to go after this guy. We've been playing for a few
weeks and wheels up was December14th of 2922 hundred.
That night ended up being a little different than any of the

(40:42):
other missions I'd ever run. You know, I was very easy going
when it came to it. I liked I liked my life in
chaos. Something felt different that
night. You know, we're we start moving.
We know that we're going to go. We all load up on our on the 40
sevenths and we start our movement in, you know, so
they're flying us in and they'redropping us out so we can do our

(41:04):
our maneuvering in everything isquiet.
We're trying to be dark, but youknow in Afghanistan you can hear
helicopters for miles upon milesaway.
So even though we're doing an offset insert, trying to get
there as quiet as least possible, you know, they know.
So we touched down and we start moving.

(41:26):
We have 5 compounds that we haveto clear before we can get to
the target. The red compound was a target
we're trying to hit in the SouthAfghanistan.
You know, during the winter time, the daytime is hot.
I mean, you know, you're in shorts and silkies and you know,
you're wearing your silkies, your T-shirts, stuff like that.

(41:48):
But it was bitter cold at night time.
I remember standing there, we just exhaled waiting for the
bird or we just infield and we're waiting for the birds to
take off. That took this big heavy breath
and it felt like little pin needles inside of my chest.
Every single breath I took. It was just sharp and it's just
the cold air. It was quiet, extremely quiet.

(42:14):
Not something that I was expecting once we touched the
ground. So we split up our elements and
we started removing. All I could think about was us
getting to the targets, eliminating any threats that we
had. My job was just keep us safe
before we could get some target and let the guys do what they

(42:34):
do. My breathing was steady.
I think my heart rate at that time was like 52 or 54 or
something like that is what it was pulling up on my watch.
So I was fully at peace. We clear 4 compounds, Tom and
Tony. They split off their on one side

(42:55):
of me and Victoria are on another side.
To be clear, IED after IED, you know, we're trying not to
detonate anything because you don't want to give them where
you are. So we link up in this compound.
Man, it was one of the most incredible things that I
remember and I will always have these last memories of Tony.
We're sitting in this compound and we're trying to talk about

(43:17):
how we're going to engage this next compound.
This is where the targets at Tony's walking.
He has his MVGS up on top of hishead and he's walking and he
hits one of these clotheslines and just eats it on the ground
in front of an entire operational team.
We start laughing. I was like, you're stupid.
I was like, that's what you get for being a Bengals fan because
he's a huge Cincinnati Bengals fan.

(43:38):
I always wear the stupid Cincinnati Bengals Santa Claus
hat. This was probably about 20
minutes before he was killed, sowe decided on what we're going
to do. So the gate was already blown
down by the British Ato, so he'sour equivalent of a bomb tech,

(43:59):
so there's metal everywhere. Initially we thought the wall
was going to get blown down, butthat gate got blown out, so we
needed to get through it. So we do a staggered sweep, Tom
and Tony on one side, Victoria and I on another side.
These are the moments that changed my life.
We start our clearance. Everything is dead silent.

(44:26):
Tom and Tony are on the right side of the wall.
Tom steps out, checks the doorway that's going out into a
field. And then you start having an
accordion effect. You know, like things start to
squeeze down. So me and Victoria are still
clearing, Victoria's up in front, and then it starts
collapsing down. Tony steps around the side and

(44:49):
then that's when the next moments happened.
All I remembered was the entire space was covered in dust.
I could see figures moving in and out of it.
I couldn't hear anything. It was like the screaming that I

(45:09):
heard was like if you took your face and just like started
yelling into a pillow. It was muffled.
I looked down at my hands. My hands were completely red,
covered in blood. It's like if you look like a
little kid playing paint. I didn't know who it belonged
to, but it was me, Victoria, Tom, Tony.

(45:30):
I had no idea. I can feel the blood dripping
down the side of my face from myears.
I looked down on the ground. Victoria was laying on the
ground. I thought he was dead, so I
reached down, checked him. He was covered in blood, but he
was still breathing. So the next thing I knew, I

(45:55):
thought that was minutes and it was just seconds.
Then everything came back, all the screaming, everything.
And it was sharp. I could see Tom crawling through
the doorway that he just got blown through.
So I start yelling at him to stay where he's at because we
had to clear the area. Our platoon commander, the two I

(46:20):
see was like Chris, Chris, Chris, there's Tom.
So Tom, he drug his body throughand he lays himself up against
the wall, make his land up against the wall next to me.
My detector like our our amendment was destroyed.
But the way that I. Figured I was like.
If I kept sweeping, I was like, we got to get a clear path to

(46:42):
get the Tom. So I have Victoria, I know he's
alive. I have Tom, I know he's alive.
So then I start looking around and I was like, that's two out
of the three. Where's Tony?
I see Tony Lane in a hole. It's the hole that he was blown
up in. He was face down in the dirt and

(47:05):
he had his right hand up in the air.
It was like he was saying goodbye for the last time.
I can't hear him take his last breath.
I watched his hand hit the ground, then I knew he was gone.
At that time. The rest of this starts becoming
a blur. We had to clear up to him, drag

(47:28):
his body out. So we hooked on with the rope
and carabiner and drug his body out of the hole.
So what it ended up doing was itcreated a clear path.
You know, like if you took a paintbrush, put it on a canvas
and just did 1 sweep with red paint.
It was super dark at the top andjust faded away down to the
bottom. Pulled Tony's body out, cleared

(47:52):
the rest of the way. Docs were able to get to Tom and
start working on Tom. We flipped Tony over.
That was the first time that I saw his face and the last time
he had his Oakleys on. For those of you who don't know
that stuff, those lenses definitely worked.

(48:13):
He had taken frag into the lenses didn't penetrate, but his
eyes were wide open. It was like looking at dolls
eyes. They were just glass.
I was just like piercing me. So we bagged Tony.
We have to get out to the LZ to get medevaced out.

(48:36):
I remember clearing A casualty collection point.
Apparently I cleared out of the IEDs.
I don't have any recollection ofit.
The next thing I remembered is we were out on the LZ waiting to
get Medifact out. I remember seeing Tom Victoria
laying next to me waiting on thebird and then Freedom Bird
coming in for Tony. We get loaded onto the bird.

(49:02):
I see Tony go. This last time I ever saw my
friend, Tony was the first person I lost.
It wasn't the last. Some that reason that was the
hardest one for me stuck with meuntil the day that I take my
last breath. That was the biggest change in

(49:25):
me. That's when I became the most
violent type of person that I ended up becoming.
I just hated everything, hated everyone.
I didn't trust people, I didn't trust that there was a higher
power or that God was playing a game with me.
Everything changed for me that night, even though I'd already

(49:45):
been through it. That's how I ended up in the
positions I were that I ended upin, you know, years down the
road, it just ended up culminating.
And I always feel like I should tell their stories because if I
don't, then their memories are lost.
That's good. Men and women that have laid
down their lives for others, youknow, politics are what they

(50:08):
are. You know, I've always, I've
always told my young guys, youngmen and women will always die
for old man's arguments. That's how it's been throughout
history. The only thing that you care
about are the people that are left and right of you on the
battlefield. And that's all I cared about.
Always hard to come up with something to say after hearing a

(50:31):
story like that. I mean, just thank you for the
the raw transparent vulnerability that you just
showed here. I got to ask, you know, you were
talking about, you went down thedark hole considering y'all
requested, Tony, did y'all experience or you specifically,
did you experience any sort of survivor's guilt immediately

(50:53):
thereafter? Oh, man, every day, even to this
day now, you know, like, could we just let it kind of be like a
Rolodex, like let leadership figure out who is going to be
all of us were like, we want Tony, you know, so that there's
not a day that it goes by that Idon't think about what if we

(51:13):
didn't? Ask.
What, do you still come down? There was a high possibility he
still came down, but we pushed it.
And you know, he was a Cincinnati police officer.
He was a reserve EOD tech. He had already been doing good
things. And there's not a day that goes
by, even that night, like when Iwas when we got medevaced out, I
remember sitting in the hospitaland thinking that this is our

(51:36):
fault. This is our fault, You know, not
that this is war. This happens.
And war kind of thing was like, Tony shouldn't even been here.
You know, you start running through all those thoughts in
your head. And then I remember them
bringing in an Afghan, A Taliban.
Dude, he had a bag over his headand he was getting, they took

(51:56):
him off the X and he was being walked out in front of us like
they were doing their own care somewhere else on because I
mean, that's, you know, no matter if we're fighting people,
if they're no longer armed, I mean, we're we're going to take
care of them. But I remember looking over at
Victoria and just feeling this rage inside of me.
I'm like, why is that dude stillalive?

(52:17):
And and it did. It just flipped a switch in me.
I was already starting to get fairly violent.
You know, Iraq O 8 was a was a hard deployment for us.
We, we got in a lot of bad stuff.
But that event itself completelychanged the person that I was.
You went down this dark hole andyou've mentioned at the top of
this addiction, suicide attempts.

(52:40):
I mean, talk to us about the lingering effects it had on
those closest to you, even like family.
Oh man, so the addiction that I had wasn't your normal
addiction. You know, most people get
addicted to alcohol, you know, drugs, whatever it ends up
being. They find a vice that they try
to washing. Hills.

(53:02):
Mine was my addiction was purelywar.
If I consumed myself with it, that's all I wanted to do.
I wanted to be gone. I wanted to be hurting people
that hurt us. That's and that's all I cared
about. So I would sit on the recliner
at home. I have, I have this beautiful

(53:24):
family and I would sit there andI would disappear while I was in
front of them. You know, ours would go by, my
wife would take our kids out, they'd go out to the park and
stuff like that. They'd come home and then I'd be
like, oh, are we going? I was like, Chris, we talked
about this six hours ago. You've been gone.
And I had no, no wherewithal of what was actually happening

(53:47):
because I was so consumed with that.
That was my addiction. And then I started finding
alcohol because I was trying to numb what I felt.
And I would I got to a point that I was able to drink a case
at night and a handle and I'd bestone cold sober.
And my wife told me she's like, if you don't stop this or done

(54:10):
so, then I would just do it, youknow, in secret, you know, I'd
have a glass of whiskey here, a glass of whiskey there.
And it was just too numb enough to where I didn't feel.
And it started pushing me down these super dark holes.
And once once the pathway started, you know, I was always
a fairly aggressive person, you know, and it fast forwards, I

(54:33):
ended up at EOD school after that deployment.
I actually had orders to Utah toheal.
We had a wonderful commander whowas actually, she was our top
EOD tech, top ranked EOD tech. She was a Lieutenant Colonel.
And all of us that got wounded in Afghanistan, she got all of
our orders, cancelled it. All of us got sent to the EOD
school house because what she wanted was she wanted these

(54:55):
young students getting taught byguys who were fresh from there.
And that changed the entire dynamics of EOD school, like the
things that we have now that arebuilt, the way our prelim
courses built, the way the structure is built, That all
started because of what she did there.
And she brought in the right chief, Al Schneider as the
chief, and we changed the entiredynamics.

(55:16):
But that was still us hiding what we were dealing with.
We were putting all of our emotion, all of our energy into
our students for the right reasons, but also to try to numb
all that. We're still doing good things,
you know, we're doing good things, you know, no matter what
we had already done what we had seen, we're doing good things.
So you start masking that you put on that mask every single

(55:36):
day, you know, and that's when Istarted going through
everything. I told him I was like, you know,
most of us put on a mask everyday.
You're fighting your own demons.But the one thing that you
can't, that you can't hide is your eyes.
You can see all the pain in it. So no matter if someone's got a
smile on their face, if they're laughing, you can see that pain
hiding. And once I got to Joint Base

(56:01):
Andrews APCS from the schoolhouse, you know, I had
like this heavy commitment to the community.
You know, I had this, this driveended up doing White House
studios, you know, out in DC. So I was working from the White
House. Great, great, wonderful job.
But that's where everything started collapsing for me.
I was very reckless in my life. All I wanted to do was things

(56:25):
that were bad. Like I was a horrible husband, a
horrible father. I was doing things that I
shouldn't be doing. You know, my wife and I are very
open about it. I was the good word for I was
very catastrophic to our life. You know, I was trying to wreck
things because for me, if my family, if I gave them a reason

(56:45):
to leave, then I could do the things that I wanted to do, to
just be away from everything. Because at this time, I didn't
know what was actually going on internally.
You know, I'd already been wounded.
I knew that, but I didn't know what was actually going on
because on the outside I still got all my limbs.
So I was fighting all these internal battles.

(57:06):
I had constant headaches and I dreamt 2 to 3 * a night.
I was averaging about 17 hours of sleep a week during that time
frame. And then when everything came
crashing down for me, I was up for 52 hours and my wife
contacted my boss. Love him to death.

(57:27):
He's command Chief Jeremiah Grishop, still, still rocking
it. Now he sat me down.
He's like, you need to talk to me, tell me what's going on.
I was like, fine. He's like, no, no, no, we're not
doing this. So that is when I started
getting diagnosed. So he got me with my docs and
everything, and they sent me to the National Intrepid Center of

(57:47):
Excellence, which is right therein Bethesda Short.
It's Nico. So they send you there.
You're there for a month and they do a full set up for, you
know, our, our soft teams. They go there as they finish up
their pumps out in combat, they come back and they reset.
They're like, hey, let's make sure everything's good with you,
your brain, your body. So they start going all this

(58:08):
stuff. They ran my brain scans and my
brain scans came back. I had 32 dead spots on my brain.
My C2 through CAT11T12 and L4 through S1 were all fractured.
And I was like, yeah, it's fine.I've been dealing with it.
And they're like, no, no, this is not how that works.
So once they got done doing thatand they diagnosed everything

(58:30):
and then, you know, now I'm seeing a psychologist and stuff
like that. I was like, I'm not sitting in
a, you know, windowless room telling you everything that's
going on with me. I was like, if you weren't there
with me, don't talk to me. That's, that was my mindset.
I was like, even guys that I know had been through very bad
things, if they weren't on the ground with me, I didn't have
time to hear it. I was like, suck it up.

(58:51):
That was my mentality and looking back.
On it. That was so.
Wrong of me to do that because Ikept guys from getting the care
that they needed because they wanted to live up to my
expectations. Especially my young techs, you
know? So.
From there at the Nico, they sent me down to the James Haley,
the Traumatic Brain Injury and Spinal Cord injury VA Hospital

(59:13):
down in Tampa, FL. So if you ever get an
opportunity to go, just visit. It is incredible.
So you go there, you're supposedto be there for two weeks, they
evaluate you, they do all this stuff and they're like, hey,
once this is done we'll send youback with a road to care back to

(59:33):
your home. 2 weeks comes, it's me and 18F and a former tag
operator and the three of us aresitting there together and we
watch 20 plus people come in andout of the program and three of
us are still there. We're there for almost 6 months

(59:53):
and we're like, what is going on?
They're like we cannot release you guys back into civilization.
You guys are not ready. And then eventually I went
against doctor's orders and I was like I'm leaving.
I want to go send me home. I was like there.
And that goes back to the there's a difference between
existing and living. I had a brand new son, my
youngest 1. So I got 3 kids, my oldest one
who just graduated Piper. Love that girl.

(01:00:16):
Has been through everything my middle boy was young his name
was Maximus or his name is Maximus and then my youngest son
who was an infant at the time was born and then I was in the
hospital. His name is Titan.
So those are my 3 kids badass night was from kid they're
they're ending those they're little wild animals.
So my wife is like holding our family together and it's holding

(01:00:38):
by a string I mean a string. I told her you need to divorce
me. I was doing everything that was
just horrible for our like she'sbeen with me now we're 24 years.
We've been together since we were 17.
What if she did, man, She did not deserve any of the things I
was giving her. None of the problems.
And she refused to give up. So when everything came crashing

(01:01:02):
down, I had three suicide attempts.
All of them were vehicles. Because the way that I looked at
it was if I got in a vehicle accident and I died, vehicle
accidents happen all the time. I at least had the, the thought
process that I didn't want my kids to come home and see me
laying on the floor with a gunshot because now I changed

(01:01:23):
the trajectory of their life or they're like, what did I do
wrong? You know, it changes everything,
you know, And I understand when people do it because I
understand how black it gets because you don't see any light
in your life. And that's where I got to the
last time it happened. My my wife, my kids, they were

(01:01:45):
all on. Can you still hear me?
Yeah, OK. They were, they were on a little
picture frame sitting on my dash.
And right then, you know, third,third attempt, still nothing.
Here I am. And I was like, you know what?
I need to change who I am. I was like, I'm good at a lot of

(01:02:08):
things, but killing myself wasn't one of them.
So I figured I was like, it's time for me to start putting my
my efforts into trying to help. And that's where the transition
started for me. And it has not been an easy Rd.
because, you know, I don't have any ideations anymore.
I don't have any plans. I still think about it.
I still wonder if is the world better off with me not being

(01:02:30):
here? Is my family better off?
And those are little bad things that creep into my head.
But I realized that they do needme here as much as I need them
in my life. And you know, I'm not look at it
as helping people that are walking the same paths.
It's like casting a stone into water.
You know, that first hit isn't just the only effect it has from

(01:02:51):
it's the ripples that come from it.
So that person, their family, their friends, their, their life
past this, which is why I started doing it.
How important has it been? I mean, you mentioned your wife
and just like I said, just she is a blessing to you to have
her. I mean, I, you often sit there

(01:03:12):
and think, I'm sure about, you know, like the trajectory, what
could have been, what could havehappened.
I mean, just imagine if you didn't have someone as strong as
her in your corner. And then just how was she during
that healing process? Because I know some spouses
trust me. And I'm not saying my wife is
this, but I'm saying I know somesome people who they go through

(01:03:33):
something similar and it's almost like the spouse puts that
little bit of, you know, almost holds it against them.
God, you've been bad at this. You've been bad.
But how important was seeing herand seeing your kids not on the
dashboard, but really starting to recover and have them right
in front of you and get more of that quality of time?
How important was that in your shift in mindset?

(01:03:55):
It was the absolute most important thing to me because
when everything started coming crashing down, my wife was, you
know, she was very loving and giving.
You know, it's like, I understand.
Let me help you. And then she realized, you know,
she's like, no, I'm going to be straight with you.
You are effing up. That's what it is.

(01:04:16):
It's like now this is what I need from you.
These are your kids. This is our family.
Are you going to continue to fight for us or you just going
to give up? I was for me, I'm like, I've
never, never quit, you know, So she gave me a reality check that
I needed, you know, not that I wanted.

(01:04:36):
It was something I needed. And if I wouldn't have had her
the way that she is, the way that she was, I wouldn't be here
talking to you today. What if I suggestion one of your
values and you're like accepted?And she's known me, you know,
she knew me when I was this young, you know, high school
athlete who I, you know, I mean,she we joke about all the time,

(01:04:57):
you know, I was a very, how do Iput it?
I was AI was a very about me kind of athlete.
You know, I was a quarterback ofthe football team.
I was the homecoming king. And yeah.
And she, you know, she had to knock me down.
She had to knock me down some, some pegs.
So she knew me. Then, and she watched the entire

(01:05:17):
transition. Of my life to where I became
there and it wasn't the same person she knew which when you
go through things like that, no matter what the trauma is in
your life, you know when you start going through these
events, you're never going to bethe same that you were.
And that was something I had to realize that I needed her to
help show me that because all these pieces that were breaking
off of me all these pieces of glass that were me, she was the

(01:05:39):
one back there picking it up trying to put it back together.
And I realized that no matter how she put it'll never go back
to the same way. Those pieces will never go back
into the same spot. But I could be the best version
of what I am now, but I'll neverbe the person that I was before.
And if it wasn't for her, I would have never found that.
It's like my wife says, it's like balled up paper.

(01:06:01):
It's never going to be flat and smooth again.
It's still going to have those ridges in it, but you can still
ride on it. You can still do everything with
it. It's just it's it's.
Not the same. When was that like paradigm
shift in the whole journey? Because it's, it's not just, you
know, you, you wake up one more and you're like, oh, I'm better
now. I'm taking, you know, still

(01:06:22):
here? Omegas.
Yeah. Oh, there we go.
Yeah, my headphones died, so nowyou got me on this one.
Mine might be going to, but for people out there listening who
are going through struggles, andI have some friends right now
who are going through some really, really deep struggles.
You don't just wake up on Mondayor you know, you watch a Netflix

(01:06:43):
documentary or you read a book or something.
Go. You know what?
I'm so much better now. It is a long, tumultuous journey
with highs and lows, sadness, happiness.
You know, it's just a mix of emotions.
All sorts are felt throughout it.
When was that moment for you where you were like, you know
what? I really am turning over a new

(01:07:05):
chapter in my life and really starting to see progress here.
Just like, looking back, where was that day where you were?
Just like, yeah, I'm doing it. Up a little bit there, can you
still hear me? Yep.
Man, I'm going to tell you. So I want to say it was probably
when we were sitting at West Point.
So I was competing for the Air Force and we were sitting up on

(01:07:28):
the hill overlooking the water. And, you know, I got involved in
the Air Force Wounded Warrior program and stuff like that, and
they started. Introducing me to.
Adaptive sports and things like that.
And my wife came with me with myyoungest son, Titan to, to West
Point. So we competed there.
I was a team captain for the AirForce.
And I still felt hollow, you know, And I was like, where

(01:07:49):
where does things start changingfor me, you know, because even
though I knew I wanted to start helping people, I didn't know
out like, and I didn't know whatI could actually be even off my
body. And my wife sat with me and

(01:08:10):
she's listened that I'm in and she's like, you have to tell it.
And I was like, I was scared, you know, I never been scared in
my entire life, but I was scared.
I didn't know how to go about it.
So that's when I actually started writing, you know, sort
of putting everything on paper and my thoughts and everything
like that. Well, that happened.

(01:08:36):
You know, a fight still continues to this day.
But I was AB purpose in my life because for me the only purpose
was warfare. That's the only thing I cared
about. So now I had to change my law.
What my why was my why was my family 1st?
And then to help anybody else that's struggling on the same

(01:08:57):
path as me. Yeah.
And Speaking of that journey, and you know, like the, the
trying to find like who you are,I know fitness was a really
important part and has been a really important part of your
journey, But you've transitionedvery well from the uniform to

(01:09:20):
rocking some nice suits. He dresses very well, folks, if
you've not seen him on social media or in person, but it looks
like you got the tailored suits that, that, that look really
well on you. So I'll give you that.
But it's hard for people to transition from uniform, from
EOD, from tech Sergeant. We have these identities that we

(01:09:45):
define ourselves by. Trust me, I know people out
there right now that are officers, that when you're
talking to them, you're not talking to Steve.
You're talking to a captain or amajor or Lieutenant.
That's who they are. And you will treat them that
way. And we get so blinded by it.
We have on those those blinders where it's just that that's our
identity. When was that moment for you

(01:10:06):
where you realized you're just as valuable, if not more sharing
your story like you mentioned? Because I know that first time
you got up and did it, it was probably like, oof, that was a
little rough for most people. That isn't public speaking.
But when was it where you were like, you know what?
I'm bringing real value to people out there and this is
something that I could potentially see, you know, with,

(01:10:30):
with a life of its own. Yeah.
So to be honest with you, you know, I started doing it in 20,
late 2016. And it was more a selfish thing
for me. You know, I wanted to, it was
part of my therapy anyway. I was doing cognitive processing
therapy and prolonged exposure. So it was part of my therapy
anyway. But I really wasn't looking at
it in a way to help others, eventhough I would say that I was

(01:10:51):
like, you know what, I'm, I'm doing this for you too.
But I was honestly doing it for just me.
And it wasn't until probably I'dsay about four years ago when I
realized, you know, can I affectchange.
You know, I did it for a long time and then one of my really
close friends, he ended up taking his own life 4 hours

(01:11:13):
after we got off the phone and him and I spoke for hours
because he had called me. And you know, his name's George.
I always called him Jorge. And you know, beautiful, just a
beautiful human being. I mean gorgeous, you know, and
he had, he had been through a lot of things saved, you know,
one of our, our first Silver Star recipient, that's who
saved, he saved his life. And George, you know, we

(01:11:37):
finished it saying he introducedme to Boondock Saints, you know,
so he called me and he's like, Chris, how do you, you know, how
do you beat it? And I was like, beat what?
He's like killing yourself. And I was like, man, I haven't
beat anything. I was like, I fight it everyday.
I was like, I get up and I standat my kids beds every morning.
I look at them and I remind myself what their life would be
like without me, you know, and we talked for probably, probably

(01:12:01):
3 hours. We got off the phone and as
we're getting off the phone, we said the same thing.
You know, he always told me he was like, Chris, the only reason
you're more handsome to me is because you're exotic.
So we always had that laugh. And then he always told me, you
know, that to end the conversations and I'll catch you
on the flip side. So I got a phone call the next
morning and they were like, are you sitting down?
And I was like, I'm having coffee with my late

(01:12:22):
mother-in-law at the time. And I was like, what's up?
And they're like, George is dead.
I was like, no, he's not. I just got off the phone with
him, and this is when I was juststarting to transition to try to
help others. And then when George took his
life, I was devastated because Iwas like, it's my fault.
I was the last one to talk. This is my fault.
So I took time off to try to work on me.

(01:12:43):
And probably about 3, almost four years ago, I started the I
was seeing a lot of my teammatesstill committing suicide and,
you know, fighting all these battles.
And I was like, these battles don't have to be fought alone.
You know, I did the same thing where I shouldered it myself and
I thought I'm the only one that has to carry this.
And I didn't realize that you have others that can shoulder

(01:13:04):
that burden with you. So about 33, almost four years
ago, I started doing this again,you know, speaking on leadership
to trauma, you know, resiliency and fighting because you're not
going to save everybody. That's something that I've
learned. And it's a hard, hard truth.
But if you can save one, you know that that effect is

(01:13:28):
everlasting, you know, and real effect.
It's hard when you lose them. It really is.
And you always question it and you try to put that same energy
into every single person that you deal with because you don't
know what fights that they're fighting.
You know, the only thing you cando is try to give them, you
know, a different pathway. You know, it's it's like a tree

(01:13:48):
branch, you know, it just splitsoff different ways.
And that's something that I've really come to want to do, you
know, and I'm at a point now in my recovery where I feel like I
can't do that. I wasn't in the beginning.
It was hard, but I'm at that point now.
One thing I'll, I'll say about your story, and I've had this
conversation with people in the past and Joe Bogden, who's one

(01:14:11):
of my top mentors, retired chiefin the Air Force.
You know, we were talking about certain authors, certain podcast
host and you know, they write these books or they have these
series of podcasts and they talkabout all these, you know,
resiliency tools and overcoming adversity and, you know, fancy

(01:14:32):
little catch phrases or or little acronyms they breakdown.
But you, you can't do that if you haven't had the lowest of
lows and had, you know, those, those dark moments.
And your story is something thatI mean, if if I see you're

(01:14:53):
coming to speak on stage and you've been through just a
plethora of things that you've gone through and the people that
have come in and out of your life in such short periods, but
they've just impacted you so much.
And people don't understand likemilitary is like family.
It is so much like family. You can be with someone for 5-6
months and then you hear about them later.

(01:15:14):
You it, it's something happens and it it stings you so hard
because you embrace the suck together.
And I just, I, I find it interesting how, you know,
people make millions doing this.And, and really when you, when
you look at the bio, you know, they went to Loyola Marymount
and, you know, have a degree in journalism and, you know, wrote

(01:15:34):
some books and hung out with some people.
But I mean, for your story, I mean, it is just absolutely
incredible from going from broken to someone with purpose.
But you're also willing to say I'm not fully 100% recovered
from this because it is a journey.
It is not a you reach an end point.
And one thing I really stress the people out there that I

(01:15:56):
really, really, really wanted tosay is that I have had people
come on the Shadows podcast before who have said I've been
through the suck. I've, I've so many people.
And in fact, when I was on Martin Foster's podcast, I was
telling him, it hurts when I spend an hour talking to
somebody and really connecting with them and they're like, man,

(01:16:19):
I'm, I'm, I'm better. And then I read a website that
they committed suicide and they took their life.
And it stings because just like you said, I sit there and we, we
get done recording with a lot ofthese.
And we sit there and we, we talkand we exchange numbers and we
text each other on the holidays And it's keep in touch and it's,
how's your family and this and that.

(01:16:39):
And then you read a headline. You're like, I could have done
something better. I could have done something
more. Maybe I should have sent more
texts. Maybe I should have reached out
more so, but it it's hard. It is really, really hard.
And so I commend you for your message and for everything that
you're out there doing. One thing I do want to talk
about that is very important. As you know, we talked about

(01:17:00):
your body and all the, the just the damage it took through
everything. Also that mindset, but the two
of them kind of tied together when it comes into fitness.
And your fitness journey has been very instrumental.
And I mean, you talk about some of the programs too, like
Wounded Warrior. In fact, I think a guy you know

(01:17:21):
Ryan Hines, you know Ryan. Oh yeah, I know, Ryan.
It's good, dude. Yeah, we were at, we were at a
spangdong together and he was onthe shadows a while.
We just spoke to him not too long ago.
Did you? Yeah, yeah, he's, he's here in
Tampa, I think. Yeah, actually we spoke on a
National Purple Heart Day. Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. He's failed to grab lunch with

(01:17:43):
me yet, So let him know that next time you talk to him.
I've only got a month and a halfleft here, but but how?
Talk to us about fitness, how much it's played a role in you.
And I mean, you talked about, you joined, you were 135, now
you're curling 135. And, you know, certifications
you got rolling in. And then one bad ass thing about

(01:18:03):
what Chris is doing is he doesn't just go to a base and
speak, he goes to a bass and finds like the most bad asses on
bass and is like, I'm going to throw some weights around with
these guys. So talk to us about that piece.
Man, Yeah. So fitness has been instrumental
in my recovery because, you know, I've been through all
kinds of therapies. Some were good, some were bad.
You know, therapies work differently for everybody.

(01:18:26):
And Lynn Coughlin, so she is thefounder of Catch A Lift.
It is for combat wounded veterans.
Her brother, you know, as selfless of a human being as
possible. He joined the Army post 40 years
old after having an entire, you know, athletic career in sports
and, you know, successful. And he's like, I'm going to join

(01:18:48):
the Army. And he ended up getting killed
on his first tour in Afghanistan.
And Lynn has kept his memory just alive and breathing fire.
And she started catch a lift outof like a small room on wanting
to help veterans in their life through fitness.

(01:19:19):
That's what Chris loved and needs me to do on my parts of my
life. You know, that was during that
time frame where I was, you know, going to kill myself.
And, you know, I had attempted and she met my wife and I at a
Chick-fil-A in the Annapolis Mall.
And she started speaking to me about Catch a Lift.

(01:19:39):
And it was through one of my friends, Sean Super.
He was like, I want you to meet this lady.
So we did. And she broke down what Catch
Lift was, what it could do for me.
So Catch a Lift would provide, you know, home gym equipment to
combat wounded veterans because a lot of us at the time, you
can't go out into a regular gym.But having fitness as your

(01:20:00):
therapy, I'd done it my whole career.
I did not realize the part it played on my mental, physical
and emotional, spiritual journey.
So when she broke it down for me, I was like, it's the only
thing I don't have to think about.
I can go in there when I have all this negative, I can just
exert all of it and get rid of these demons that I'm fighting,

(01:20:22):
you know, and I can use it as energy.
I do it all the time. I actually have very unhealthy
conversations in my head right now.
When I'm training, you know, I'm41 years old now.
So I see these young, you know, young studs that are, you know,
22 through 28. And they're just animals in
there. And they see me staring at them
and they don't know why. But in my head, it's like I'm

(01:20:43):
having these arguments with them.
You know, these are, they've done nothing to me.
But in my head it's, oh, what's up, grandpa?
What you doing in here? Oh, that's cute what you're
doing. And these are conversations I'm
having that they don't know I'm having with them.
Now I know what you were saying to me when you saw me in the
gym. It's a Barbie girl, OK?
So, you know, and that's what I do, I find like these just studs

(01:21:05):
and I'm like me and you were about to have a fight in here in
my head, they have no idea. So when I started realizing that
fitness could help transition who I was.
And we were told, you know, our docs told us after Tony was
killed that if we weren't as dense as we were, our injuries
would have been far more severe.You know, So that was already a

(01:21:26):
testament to being in shape for the job that you're trying to
perform. You know, and like I said, you
don't have to think about it. It should be the easiest part of
your day, the most physically taxing, but the easiest part
because it's just you going in there and putting in the work.
You know, and I tell people all the time, like, when they're
like, I don't have time. I'm like, how long were you on

(01:21:46):
TikTok today, you know? So one thing about the
timepiece, one thing about the timepiece.
I work for a two star Army Ranger who is a who is a badass
General Tegmeyer. This guy that is, he is a
badass. T1000.
We went through some stuff here where we were basically 12 on 24

(01:22:13):
hours straight for I'll just say12 straight days or something.
And this man still went out and ran in the morning.
He's like, I'm going to get sometime to go get my fitness in.
Something's going to sacrifice, but I will get my workout in.
And I asked him one day. I was like, how is it that you
still made time to do that during all of this stuff that's

(01:22:36):
going on? And he's like, you got to make
time. I mean, you have to.
And I told him he by him doing that, an airman can't come up to
me and tell me they can't go work out.
No one can come up to me and tell me.
And I'm like, no, he and I even told him, I said, you ruined it
for everybody from here on out because I have seen you for 12
straight days and you still maketime to go run at least.

(01:22:59):
And he said, Hey, it may only befor 20 minutes, but it's going
to be a, a super strenuous, demanding 20 minute workout that
I'm going to have. But you got people are like, you
know, I'll start on Monday, justnot, you know, I'm, I'm waiting
till, you know, crunch is going to lower its membership next
month. It's it's always something if
you if your mind tells you it's something.

(01:23:21):
But you're right. People say all the time I can't
do it, don't have time. Oh yeah, I mean you can have
1000 excuses on why you can't dosomething.
All you need is 1 to. Do it.
Facts. You know, and that's it.
And like fitness for me, I mean,it's taken over my life.
I actually just had a today, I had a appointment with a
cardiologist. So I almost died three years ago

(01:23:42):
due to no, I wasn't supposed. Your your audio just froze up.
Get that? Letter can you?
Hear me. Man, and it threw me into severe
Rabdo, so I started. What's that?
Your audio. Froze.
Still got me. Yep.

(01:24:02):
Can you hear me? Yeah, it froze up.
You said you almost died and then it froze.
So if you want to pick back up from that.
Yeah, Yep. So I almost died three years ago
on medication that the that I was taking from my docs.
So two of them were talking to each other and it threw me into

(01:24:24):
severe rhabdomyosis. I had acute kidney.
Failure. And I had a troponin spike in my
heart, so I was in the hospital for five days, almost died in
the hospital. My left quad, my rectus femoris,
and my left quad exploded while I was in hospital.
And then all of my blood like did a hard reset.
So I jumped to like 755 for my cholesterol.

(01:24:48):
My blood pressure was 170 / 100.And now I just had a my yearly
with my cardiologist today I wrote in at 118 / 60.
My cholesterol is 150 something.And I've made it a point because
I'd already been into fitness that I had to get back to that
point again. So I had to change my entire
lifestyle again so that I didn't.
And I was sitting, I was like, am I really going to die from

(01:25:10):
something like this that I had? I was like, this is what's going
to put me in the grave. So I really started ramping up
my training and stuff again and I really started focusing on
things that would strengthen my heart as well as my you all your
different type 2 muscle fibers and stuff like that.

(01:25:36):
Because you know, I always preach to people, look good,
feel what at the end of the day when you look at no.
And that's the push for me. So if someone's out there
listening and they feel like they're just stuck in their
shadows, whether it's depression, whether it's trauma,
whether it's hopelessness, I mean, whether it's just they

(01:25:58):
don't even want to work out, what is the first step that you
would suggest they take to climbout of that?
Oh man, that's what a wonderful question trip.
So that's brothers and sisters, all of you sitting out there.
I'm going to tell you what I didn't realize is each one of us

(01:26:20):
is in charge with that book you're writing on your life.
Everybody gets stuck in, myself included.
I was stuck there forever. I had a bad chapter in my life
that I thought that was going todefine my entire story, but what
I didn't realize is I could close that chapter.
That's part of it. I mean, books are like that, You
know, you're filled with all thejoy, all the.
Happiness, the sadness the. Anger, the pain, all of it.

(01:26:43):
You get to try to choose what chapter you're going to write
next. close that door. Like close that book on that
chapter and then start with yournext. 1.
That next one you write yourself.
It can be full of whatever you want it to be, and there should
be some some. Sadness in there, I mean.
This one makes a book good. That's what makes life worth
living, you know It's a people. Go to movies to watch they

(01:27:09):
chives and lows. That's right, you know, and
that's A and I, I truly believe,you know, and, and it happened
with me. If God was done with me, then I
wouldn't be here as long as there's a breath still in me.
He's not done with me yet. It's funny you mentioned the
book I love reading up on, like Stoicism.

(01:27:30):
And you know, one of the things I think Marcus really has talked
about it was, you know, they believe that like we all have
these chapters in our lives thatjust as you mentioned, I mean,
what a good transition you had there.
But this version of us dies, right?
That that version of you that was like, I'm going to make it
playing baseball died when you join the military.

(01:27:53):
And then when you saw the stuff you've been exposed to, that
previous version of you died, which brings on this angry,
hostile version of you. But then you start to come out
on the other side of it and it'sjust like, you've had so many
different chapters. And like you said, that's and
it's up to us because we're the ones ultimately with the pen.

(01:28:13):
We give it other people and allow people to label us at
times, but we're ultimately the ones writing our book of our
lives. We just have to understand each
of those chapters are there for a reason.
And that's the beauty of our lives is that we look back and
we say, I embrace the fact that,you know, yeah, as a as a kid, I
lost my dad. I lost my sister.
Most people would say that sucks.
I say I was lucky I had 11 yearswith my dad and 14 years with my

(01:28:35):
sister. Absolutely.
Because the lessons they've taught me now and then I can
look at my daughter and say, oh,my God, she reminds me of my
sister on a daily basis. And if my sister was still here,
I wouldn't have my wife and my daughter.
So there's just it, it is a factand everything that goes through
our lives happens for a reason, Which brings me to two questions
that I have here before we startto wrap this one up.

(01:28:56):
You mentioned we're going to getback to the book piece, but
faith, when did you start to restore your faith?
Because I have been there too, to where I've been like we were
going to the church every singleSunday.
My dad dies, then my sister dies, and then, you know, it
start losing people right and left and you're like, what?

(01:29:17):
What are you doing to me? Like why?
Why am I your boxing bag here? Absolutely.
I'm going to tell you. So I'd like 2008. 2008 is when I
really started just quitting on my faith.
I was like, what are you doing? I was like, are you even there?
I was like, is this a thing? Is this made-up?
What are you doing? What was your purpose with me?

(01:29:40):
Is your purpose to see how far you can push me before I break
And that's all I ever did, you know, and I had just this anger
towards him, towards faith. You know, whatever whatever
faith it is that you have, you know, I truly do believe you
should have something to hang onto regardless of what your faith
is. You know that is your faith.

(01:30:00):
And I think that's what makes usas humans is being able to hold
on to something that you can't see, that you just feel, you
know, I lost that. And it wasn't until I've
struggled with it, I still to this day, I still struggle.
I've come a long way. And it's because so my wife's

(01:30:22):
grandmother, Annie Powell, my late mother-in-law, Trudy Crumb,
you know, she passed from canceralmost 3 Decembers now.
You know, she was 59 years old and she was the rock in our
family, you know, and it's been hard since then.
So I questioned my faith then too, but both of them before
they passed, they were so they knew where they were going to go

(01:30:45):
to. They knew what to hold on to.
They were 100% scared. And you are scared of any kind
of change in your life. And after mom, when she passed,
that's when I started trying to renew my faith, you know, and my
wife is always held on to her faith.
And even in the roughest times for me, I never put my thoughts

(01:31:07):
into my kids because who was I to take away their opportunity
at having their beliefs and their trust and their higher
power when they had an experience when I experienced
they didn't deserve that. So my wife and my sister-in-law,
Jill, both of them extremely, extremely strong in their faith.

(01:31:27):
And they've told me because I'm asked, I asked them all the
time. I'm like.
All I've ever wanted is peace. I didn't know that that's what I
wanted. And that's all I know now is I
want peace in my life. All the chaos that I've had.
I just need that. And Jill and Lauren both told me
the only one that can give me that is him.

(01:31:48):
And then what he charges you with, he's like, you don't know
that you got charged with this to try to help others.
This is your way to find peace, you know, And I tell them all
the time. I was like, I don't know if I'll
get. In in through the gates.
I've done some evil things in mylife.
It's like things that I feel like are unforgivable, you know,
And they're like, that's during the time of war.

(01:32:10):
Doesn't matter. It was the way that I felt when
it happened because I didn't look at those people as people.
I felt great about the demise that they had.
It's like only I knew that in myhead and him.
So it is, it has come full circle.

(01:32:31):
I grew up religious. I lost all of my faith and I'm
gradually getting it back. You know, there's a he gives me
signs. He gives me signs that there's a
there's still faith in humanity,there's still faith in people,
and there's he's still got faithin.
Me. And I see it every day when my
kids smile. It's it's crazy what kids could

(01:32:54):
do. My daughter getting saved was my
turning point. Oh.
Man, that's, that's what that was when I saw that and saw her
go through it, I was like, let'sflip another chapter here.
Let's let's start to to work on that spiritual element a little
bit. God, it's awesome to hear that.
If you have a book, by the way, you need to have a book.

(01:33:15):
You need to write a book. For a while.
It's a question. Do you have a title?
For your book. I do.
It's called home isn't really home that.
Was going to be one of my questions.
What would you call your book? Yeah, no, that you'll have to
keep us posted on when that comes out because, man, that is
it's going to be a powerful book.

(01:33:36):
That's that's one of those you sit down, you can't quite put it
like David Goggins. You can't quite put that one
down when you're sitting there reading it.
You know, last question before Iasked about where our listeners
can find you and all the stuff you do it.
Now, I like the legacy question and I know it's used on a lot of
different podcasts, a lot of different interviews, but I'm
going to ask you this question kind of a little bit different

(01:33:58):
here. Your kids, you've mentioned your
kids, you've talked about your kids.
You've that mean what badass names you've got for your kids
too. But you know when when Piper,
Piper Maximus and Titan, right? Can you hear me?

(01:34:19):
Can you hear me? That's lagging on a little bit?
Are you? Can you hear me now?
Yep, got you. OK, I got you.
So your kids Hyper Maximus and Titan, right?

(01:34:42):
Yes. 30 years from now. 40 yearsfrom now, 50 years from now,
they're sitting down with their grandchildren and they're
talking about you. What do you think they're going
to say about your legacy? Well, you know, it's funny
because I had this conversation with my daughter and you know,

(01:35:04):
all of my, you know, she's trying to base her life based on
things that I've already done. And I told her I don't want that
to be why you do things. I was like, when I think back on
what would I want my grandkids to Remember Me as what my legacy
is. And first and foremost, I want
them to look at me as I was a good father.
I was a good family man, you know, and then, you know, my

(01:35:29):
career wise, you know, when I think about that, I just want
them to know that the things that I did or for the betterment
of their lives. And you know, initially it was
very unselfish when I came in because I wanted to just put
pain to very bad people. And then it became extremely
selfish because I just wanted tofeel their pain.

(01:35:51):
I wanted to know that they were in pain and it wasn't for any
other cause. And then now on the transition
out, you know, with what I do now, I help facilitate training
for special operators, you know,both foreign and domestic.
So it's my way to give back to those communities that were such
an integral part of my life. So I want my kids and my

(01:36:12):
grandkids to know that your purpose is driven by you.
And it doesn't have to be for anybody else.
But what you're trying to set asa legacy, you know, and my, all
three of my kids have different pathways they want to take.
You know, daughter, she, she's in college.
She eventually wants to go to the agency.
She wants to go to the farm. And I was like.

(01:36:33):
She's in. She's in college with your wife
too. She is there in college, they
all started going back to nursing school day one day, one
day one, they're both think how we took a picture, you know,
they got their backpacks on and the tumblers and everything.
So but that's her pathway. My daughter wants to go.
I think she's majoring in behavioral science and then she
wants to enlist or I'm sorry, a Commission go into an Intel

(01:36:55):
community and then she wants to work for one of the three
letters. And then my my youngest son,
he's the one. He's the whole reason I was a
cop. I was a cop during COVID because
he always was infatuated with police officers.
I was like, let me do that. So I was a police officer for
him and he's slightly transition.
He's like dad, I think I want tobe a sniper.

(01:37:16):
I was like. You know, I get a show out.
And then my middle boy, you know, he's talked about the
military and stuff like that, but he wants to be a zoologist,
specifically a herpetologist, more specifically working with
venomous reptiles, snakes. And I was like, what is going on
now? So your daughter, President?

(01:37:38):
Joined the military. Yeah, your your daughter will
will be the safest out of that group by far.
Jeez. So you mentioned being a cop.
Tell our listeners out there real quick, what have you been
doing recently? I know you've been making your
rounds. How can they get in contact with
you? What can you provide?

(01:38:01):
Pitch, pitch what you're doing right now to our because we do
have a strong military audience and and how do you get a hold of
you, get you out there to do exactly what you did for us.
Yeah, man, absolutely. So so currently I work.
For Air Force Special. Operations.
I'm a combat training specialist.
My, what I do is I facilitate training for special operations
teams. That's my sole job here.

(01:38:22):
And I'm going to tell you, I've had a wonderful command here my
entire time here. They, they know what I do and
what my outside endeavors are because of where I want to help,
you know, So obviously I do stuff with Air Force Wounded
Warrior, you know, with those for all of our active duty
service members that end up in the program.
So I'm an ambassador for them. I go around and speak on behalf

(01:38:44):
of Air Force Wounded Warrior andthen catch a lift.
You know, Miss Lynn Coughlin, she is, that's for our combat
wounded. We provide all the fitness stuff
for them. So personal training, all of
that stuff. I just got my Issa
certifications for certified personal trainer and certified
strength and conditioning coach.You know, and there's some
selfishness in there. My boys are in school, you know,

(01:39:04):
my middle boy just started 7th grade tackle football and my
overall goal is to be the powerlifting coach for the high
school whenever they get there. So that's that was my that's,
that's a little bit of my my plug.
He's. Coming for you, whoever you are,
is the powerlifting coach now say. 100% and and then Intrepid
care. So they're a non profit out of

(01:39:26):
San Antonio. I'm the director of resiliency
for them, which is who's on here.
And we do for it used to be justfor combat veterans and now
we've opened it up from combat veterans to veterans, period.
First responders like we've and active duty.
So we do hunting, you know, outdoors, sporting events,

(01:39:46):
things like that to get people out of the realm that they're in
to where they're in that little small circle and get them
involved in things that are outside, you know, to try to
bring in and change that dynamicof whatever is going on in the
life where it became static. You know, so we do a lot of that
stuff with them. We do like right now we've got

(01:40:06):
some hunts out right now for thestate of New Mexico.
My director of outdoors out hereis phenomenal and we're doing
some big things down in the San Antonio and we're based out of
San Antonio. They're doing incredible things
down there right now. They did a lot right with the
with the flood. Our our entire agency was down
there like the trumpet care was down there just putting in work,

(01:40:26):
you know, with the recovery efforts and then outside of
that. So I am a advisor to the
Headquarters Air Force Retiree Council.
So I had I helped advise on as amember at large for the panel or
for the council on Wounded Warrior issues for retirees.
That's my specific focus and thereason that I am there to kind

(01:40:48):
of help, You know, we've transitioned from, you know,
World War 2, Vietnam, Korea, stuff like that.
Now we have our generation of war fighters of OEFOIF you know,
you're looking into all the different conflicts that we've
had. So our council is, you know, the
time frame prior to me. So bringing me in to kind of

(01:41:09):
help advise on what is going on now, what we're struggling with,
whether it be the VA system, theretirement system, you know.
What we're? Transitioning into and with the
new, you know, it's not the samekind of and like I have the yeah
of the the BR the but I know that we're getting different

(01:41:32):
retirees, you know, at differentages now.
So outside of that and then, youknow, obviously fitness is huge.
I was working with just did a just did an article on me.
In Muscle and Fitness and it's talking about.
Yeah, we got, we got to talk about that Cal.

(01:41:54):
You had to be a muscle. I I think I was joking with you
when I heard that. I was like, man, you beat Calvin
and I into muscle and fitness. So.
Ludo So the the Honorable Rob Wilkins, he's been working for
the last three, now 3 presidentson the fitness side of things
for the Department of Defense and he came to one of our events

(01:42:16):
for Catch a Lift and me and him just chatted.
It was all before I started speaking and everything that and
it actually came about. He'd asked me to do to be so

(01:42:37):
after I got done speaking, he was like, Hey, this is who I am.
And I'd had no idea part. He played in our military air
fitness and he reached out to me.
He was like, I'm fit to serve. He's like, and I would love for

(01:42:57):
you to link up with us and we doan article on it and it we, we
did our, our interview and then it came out and you know, it's
been, it's been incredible, you know, to be able to tell that.

(01:43:47):
Got you out. Still there, Trip.
Yep, Yep. Yeah, that was funny.
My Maximus. So I have them labeled as
Maximilian. Ian called my phone.
You're probably trying to and itcut it off.
Yep. And it just cut it straight off.
But yeah, so Yep, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say

(01:44:09):
it's crazy to me because like the, the closest I ever got was
like going to Six Flags as a kidand doing the you know, you got
your face on the cover of SportsIllustrated or muscle fitness.
You do the little photo shoots at the theme parks and here you
are living the the the dream being featured in there.
So we'll, we'll definitely post that in our links because I

(01:44:30):
mean, super cool, super cool to know it really.
Was it was a it's you know, growing up, same thing, you
know, you see the muscle and fitness magazines.
I was like one one day, you know, and this high hopes and
then when it happened, I was like, Oh my God, this like
really happened, you know, and what Dory Oh no, I just you

(01:44:52):
know. I would, I would get that
tattooed on me. I'm sure you got some space on
there somewhere to get you a little MF or something.
And and then when people ask, you'd be like, oh, that's you
know, that was muscle fitness. Final piece here.
What advice, what words of wisdom, what quote?
What do you have to give to our listeners for them to cap off

(01:45:14):
this episode? Oh man, so I actually lived my
career by this. So it was introduced to me as a
young A1C, you know, E3 in the military.
I was a little 2 striper. And so Ambrose Red Moon, and
I've lived my entire career fromit because it was one thing
going in, you know, I came in where it was full conflict.

(01:45:36):
And it is current courage is notthe absence of fear, but the
realization there is something greater than fear itself.
And I tell people all the time, I'm like, there was never a time
I wasn't afraid. You know, that lets you know
that you're alive. And that's the whole reason why
you can keep fighting and you keep yourself safe in those
environments. So that's what I try to live my
life by. And it doesn't only apply in

(01:45:57):
war, it applies in your everydaylife because there's a lot of
times that you find yourself that you don't do something or
you don't try. Something because you're afraid.
And it's OK to be 100% OK to be afraid because that means that
your brain is telling you to usesome caution to break it down.
Is this something worth doing? And I'm going to tell you life's

(01:46:20):
hard and it's meant to be hard, but anything in life that is
hard, that's the reason that life is worth it, because
anything that's not worth it is easy.
Comfortable being uncomfortable.That's a fact.
Well, brother, I appreciate you being on here.
This was awesome. You were like I said when we
started piercing together this grit series and we got some good

(01:46:43):
guests lined up for you all coming this month.
But you, you were number one draft pick.
You were number one draft pick. I was like, we got to kick it
off with you. This story is absolutely
incredible. I know the past couple of months
here on The Shadows, we have taken a totally different
approach. We have dug deeper into
emotional intelligence. I appreciate all the feedback

(01:47:03):
everybody's been giving us on our unique spin on movies,
taking movies and breaking them down from an EQ standpoint.
Miguel just dropped his last episode or his first episode on
leadership last week, breaking down Gridiron Gang.
That and Any Given Sunday and emotional intelligence.
Both were a huge success. We thank you all for listening
to those. And believe it or not, our most

(01:47:26):
downloaded episode since we've been back relaunched this a
couple of months ago, is the emotional intelligence breakdown
behind Milli Vanilli and how society is so filtered nowadays,
even though they were crucified for doing what they did.
So the Milli Vanilli episode washands down our most downloaded,
and I think you'll offer that wegot more incredible content

(01:47:49):
coming your way as well. All of Chris's information is
going to be in the link. This is probably going to be a
really lengthy one in terms of links and different sources to
be able to read more about him, hear more about him.
I'm telling you all, if you get a chance, ping him, get him to
your base, have him go to Airmanleadership school and to the top

(01:48:14):
three in the first four in the 56.
And then if your army, get him to go out there and speak to the
soldiers, get get him out there in these joint environments and
get him out there not just to speak, but he, he comes with the
package, right? He'll hang out with y'all, he'll
go work out with y'all. He'll break bread with you.
Get him out there. I'm telling you, you're not
going to regret it. And especially, you know, being
able to connect with him becauseI heard him speak and then

(01:48:36):
afterwards we went over to the club afterwards and and hung out
and it was fun. He fit in just like everybody
else on base and was just sitting there having sharing war
stories with everyone else and just having a good time.
So he's really good people. Get him out there.
Definitely encourage y'all Sir. What final things do you have to
send us home? Man, I just want to tell all of

(01:49:01):
you thank you for or everything.Thank you so much for having me.
You know, I've gone realize, like all different stories, you

(01:49:21):
know, and then for all of you out there listening, just man,
this life is a wonderful life. It really is.
And it's full of all kinds of things, you know, some good,
some bad. But that's what things like this
are for, you know, to be able toreach out to each other.
I'm the only Chris Farrell at Candid and they're force based
in so nobody purposely tries to come here.

(01:49:48):
I am very readily of number alsoyou know, so if you're for
anybody that needs anything. Well, I appreciate you folks.
It's going to wrap up another episode of the Shadows Podcast.

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