Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Welcome to the official broadcast of PCAA
America's National Conference.
I'm Nathan Fink, and I'll beyour host for the next four days
as we embark on thistransformative journey and hear
from experts in prevention, andtogether discover innovative
family-focused policies,cutting-edge research, programs,
and practices that help drivethe field toward upstream
thinking so every child has theopportunity to grow up safe and
(00:40):
nurtured.
As Prevent Child Abuse America'sfirst in-person meeting of state
chapters and home visitingnetworks, policy and community
partners, and othercollaborators since 2019, the
2023 conference offers nearly 90sessions, three keynote
speakers, workshops, symposia,and presentations focusing on
effective prevention strategieswith nationally recognized
(01:00):
experts and leaders.
So tune in to hear fromprofessionals, advocates, and
innovators in child abuse andneglect prevention, because each
day is an opportunity to buildfoundations for our future.
Hello and welcome to the PCAAmerica National Conference
Podcast.
I'm thrilled to be here with thepresident of Black
Administrators in Child Welfare,or BACW, and current Deputy
(01:23):
Director of Broward County HumanServices, Keith D.
Bostik.
Keith, welcome to the show.
Good morning, Nathan.
How are you?
Good, I'm good.
And I'm thrilled that you werepresenting here at PCA America's
National Conference.
And at the center of your workis transformation of child
welfare practices to eliminateinequities around racism and to
foster accountability.
Accountable institutions,accountable systems, accountable
(01:45):
leaders.
When we talk aboutaccountability, what are we
talking about in terms of oursystems, our leaders?
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Well, thanks for asking the question, Nathan, and
I'm excited to be here.
When we talk aboutaccountability with leaders, I
think that we have to begin withthat place and space about are
they, are leaders fullyrecognizing their audience?
That could be their staff, andthen more importantly, that
could be the recipients ofservices.
When we talk about the design ofsystems, oftentimes systems have
(02:13):
been structured uh without theinput of the recipients of
services.
Um I have come to learn verykeenly that, you know, there's
nothing about us without us, andthat oftentimes these systems
are structured on pasthistorical efforts and
structures that are etched andare boxy and not very fluid and
(02:34):
flexible, but with child welfareand with human services, and
especially as we be, you know,talk more and more about
prevention, it's gonna have torequire, I mean, it's gonna
require fluidity.
It's gonna require what Idescribe as kind of an amoeba
approach, because our familiesare different, and so they come
differently, and so there willbe different needs.
When we talk aboutaccountability, it is about also
(02:55):
being bold and courageous.
Uh leaders have to be bold andcourageous in this in the space
of child welfare, the space ofhuman services.
And when I talk about boldness,I'm talking about having the
courage to do somethingdifferent, to think differently,
to reimagine what could possiblyhappen and not set limits.
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
First and foremost, I love when you talk about
courage.
You know, the courage to meetpeople where they're at, right,
is a big thing.
The courage to meet providersand systems where they're at, in
their readiness, as you talkedabout to change hearts and
minds, it does take a lotbecause you have to go backward.
Now, what does the readinesslook like for this conversation?
What does the appetite look likefor this conversation?
SPEAKER_02 (03:34):
Great question.
I think the starting line, youknow, changes.
Uh, I think historically in thiscountry, the starting line
around accountability, thestarting line around race, the
starting line around equitychanges.
Um, you'll have to recognizethat we were just we're just
three years past, you know, themurder of George Floyd.
And this country was at a swiftpace of looking at how do we
(03:55):
rectify these kinds ofchallenges and understanding
that in order to move forward,you have to actually look
backwards and to understandhistory and to understand
individuals' cultures and to notprejudge and to then have an
openness to have some serv andvolley kinds of conversations
around, you know, what is rightand and what is meaningful to
(04:15):
others.
I think we've seen a significantshift in that.
You know, everything from ourpolitical structures to our laws
and some of our our policiesthat have become a little bit
more restrictive in theconversation around race.
It's not doesn't mean that we wehaven't solved the chasm between
race and culture and what itmeans for individuals who are
(04:37):
recipients of services or whofind themselves in need of um
supports.
Uh we also live in a countrywhere there are over half a
million children in the childwelfare system and uh there are
certain races and cultures thatare disproportionately
represented there.
And in order to solve that,you're gonna have to understand
what is meaningful and whatmatters to uh individuals in
(04:58):
that particular culture.
If you really want to talk aboutchange, it has to happen with a
co-design framework.
That co-design is that, Nathan,I need you, who happens to be a
parent of a child who happens tohave entered into the foster
care system.
I need you shoulder to shoulderwith me to help map out what
prevention might look like.
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
When we uh talk about systems change and we look
down, what does a change systemlook like to you?
What does it feel like to you?
SPEAKER_02 (05:26):
What it looks like to me is a sustained movement.
And when I talk about asustained movement, it is it is
beyond the conversation.
It is actually putting somebuilding blocks together.
You know, an example I just gaveto you about the parent um
needing to be shoulder toshoulder.
When we talk about a changesystem, that building block has
(05:47):
to start from I have to have awillingness to do that.
I have to believe that thisperson who you just asked me to
sit shoulder to shoulder with,from a system standpoint, I have
to believe that they havesomething to contribute.
Because if I don't begin there,then I have devalued that.
And so in doing so, I have to bevery intentional about that
engagement.
An example is Nathan, I can'tset a set of meeting with you
(06:10):
without asking you what's a goodtime for you.
You know, I could set a oneo'clock meeting today for us to
engage so I can hear aboutthrough your lens what
reimagination would look like.
But if at one o'clock you're atyour job that you can't afford
to have any time off, then Ithen then I have not been
supportive of this partnership.
Maybe I should say, well, tellme Nathan, what works for you.
(06:32):
Nathan, you may say, well, 6:30,um, but we're gonna need some
child care.
I gotta be willing to be openand to do that.
And so when I talk about it'sit's intentionality from the
start, but I have to also nowknow a little bit about Nathan
and know a little bit about yourculture to understand that
childcare is extremely importantin our conversations around
engagement and around trust.
And then we have to take a lookat when we talk about building
(06:54):
blocks.
Let's just stay there withtrust.
Too often, systems have donethings to people.
And oftentimes those things thathave been done to people, and
once again, some systems startwith this heart of, I think I'm
doing well.
I'm helping people.
But if we haven't had theconversation, then you're
starting at a different place.
But too often it is those thosecommunities and those families
(07:15):
have been done to versus donewith.
An example is that if I show upat your place, Nathan, and I
say, Hi Nathan, I'm KeithBostick, and I'm from the
Department of Children andFamily Service, and I'm here to
help you.
In some situations, that couldbe an oxymoron, because my
history around help from systemslike you have been harm and
trauma.
And so trust and engagement.
(07:36):
So I think when we talk aboutwhat transformation looks like,
it is first establishing thattrust, establishing that
engagement, that intentionality,understanding, and having a
joint share vision about whatsuccess is gonna look like.
Because my success and yoursuccess may be, may be different
and look different.
But it doesn't mean we can'tboth get there.
Then I think we have to thenconvince or shift hearts and
(07:56):
minds.
Um you will continuallycontinually hear me talk about
mindset and heart space,shifting hearts and minds,
because I start with what youbelieve is gonna drive your
will, and your will is gonnadrive your practice.
So if I don't believe thatchange can occur, then my
willingness to do, as I call mywill a meter, is gonna be
extremely low.
(08:17):
So therefore, my practice, myactions may be delayed, my my
courage may be a little bitdelayed, and my effort to engage
others to this work.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
There has to be other people brought to the
conversation.
Keith, I am so glad you madetime for me today.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Well, thank you so much, Nathan.
Keep up your good work.
And stay tuned for moreinterviews from PCA America's
National Conference Podcast.
Welcome to the official broadcast of PCAA
America's National Conference.
I'm Nathan Fink, and I'll beyour host for the next four days
as we embark on thistransformative journey and hear
from experts in prevention, andtogether discover innovative
family-focused policies,cutting-edge research, programs,
and practices that help drivethe field toward upstream
thinking so every child has theopportunity to grow up safe and
(00:40):
nurtured.
As Prevent Child Abuse America'sfirst in-person meeting of state
chapters and home visitingnetworks, policy and community
partners, and othercollaborators since 2019, the
2023 conference offers nearly 90sessions, three keynote
speakers, workshops, symposia,and presentations focusing on
effective prevention strategieswith nationally recognized
(01:00):
experts and leaders.
So tune in to hear fromprofessionals, advocates, and
innovators in child abuse andneglect prevention, because each
day is an opportunity to buildfoundations for our future.
Hello and welcome to the PCAAmerica National Conference
Podcast.
I'm thrilled to be here with thepresident of Black
Administrators in Child Welfare,or BACW, and current Deputy
(01:23):
Director of Broward County HumanServices, Keith D.
Bostik.
Keith, welcome to the show.
Good morning, Nathan.
How are you?
Good, I'm good.
And I'm thrilled that you werepresenting here at PCA America's
National Conference.
And at the center of your workis transformation of child
welfare practices to eliminateinequities around racism and to
foster accountability.
Accountable institutions,accountable systems, accountable
(01:45):
leaders.
When we talk aboutaccountability, what are we
talking about in terms of oursystems, our leaders?
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Well, thanks for asking the question, Nathan, and
I'm excited to be here.
When we talk aboutaccountability with leaders, I
think that we have to begin withthat place and space about are
they, are leaders fullyrecognizing their audience?
That could be their staff, andthen more importantly, that
could be the recipients ofservices.
When we talk about the design ofsystems, oftentimes systems have
(02:13):
been structured uh without theinput of the recipients of
services.
Um I have come to learn verykeenly that, you know, there's
nothing about us without us, andthat oftentimes these systems
are structured on pasthistorical efforts and
structures that are etched andare boxy and not very fluid and
(02:34):
flexible, but with child welfareand with human services, and
especially as we be, you know,talk more and more about
prevention, it's gonna have torequire, I mean, it's gonna
require fluidity.
It's gonna require what Idescribe as kind of an amoeba
approach, because our familiesare different, and so they come
differently, and so there willbe different needs.
When we talk aboutaccountability, it is about also
(02:55):
being bold and courageous.
Uh leaders have to be bold andcourageous in this in the space
of child welfare, the space ofhuman services.
And when I talk about boldness,I'm talking about having the
courage to do somethingdifferent, to think differently,
to reimagine what could possiblyhappen and not set limits.
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
First and foremost, I love when you talk about
courage.
You know, the courage to meetpeople where they're at, right,
is a big thing.
The courage to meet providersand systems where they're at, in
their readiness, as you talkedabout to change hearts and
minds, it does take a lotbecause you have to go backward.
Now, what does the readinesslook like for this conversation?
What does the appetite look likefor this conversation?
SPEAKER_02 (03:34):
Great question.
I think the starting line, youknow, changes.
Uh, I think historically in thiscountry, the starting line
around accountability, thestarting line around race, the
starting line around equitychanges.
Um, you'll have to recognizethat we were just we're just
three years past, you know, themurder of George Floyd.
And this country was at a swiftpace of looking at how do we
(03:55):
rectify these kinds ofchallenges and understanding
that in order to move forward,you have to actually look
backwards and to understandhistory and to understand
individuals' cultures and to notprejudge and to then have an
openness to have some serv andvolley kinds of conversations
around, you know, what is rightand and what is meaningful to
(04:15):
others.
I think we've seen a significantshift in that.
You know, everything from ourpolitical structures to our laws
and some of our our policiesthat have become a little bit
more restrictive in theconversation around race.
It's not doesn't mean that we wehaven't solved the chasm between
race and culture and what itmeans for individuals who are
(04:37):
recipients of services or whofind themselves in need of um
supports.
Uh we also live in a countrywhere there are over half a
million children in the childwelfare system and uh there are
certain races and cultures thatare disproportionately
represented there.
And in order to solve that,you're gonna have to understand
what is meaningful and whatmatters to uh individuals in
(04:58):
that particular culture.
If you really want to talk aboutchange, it has to happen with a
co-design framework.
That co-design is that, Nathan,I need you, who happens to be a
parent of a child who happens tohave entered into the foster
care system.
I need you shoulder to shoulderwith me to help map out what
prevention might look like.
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
When we uh talk about systems change and we look
down, what does a change systemlook like to you?
What does it feel like to you?
SPEAKER_02 (05:26):
What it looks like to me is a sustained movement.
And when I talk about asustained movement, it is it is
beyond the conversation.
It is actually putting somebuilding blocks together.
You know, an example I just gaveto you about the parent um
needing to be shoulder toshoulder.
When we talk about a changesystem, that building block has
(05:47):
to start from I have to have awillingness to do that.
I have to believe that thisperson who you just asked me to
sit shoulder to shoulder with,from a system standpoint, I have
to believe that they havesomething to contribute.
Because if I don't begin there,then I have devalued that.
And so in doing so, I have to bevery intentional about that
engagement.
An example is Nathan, I can'tset a set of meeting with you
(06:10):
without asking you what's a goodtime for you.
You know, I could set a oneo'clock meeting today for us to
engage so I can hear aboutthrough your lens what
reimagination would look like.
But if at one o'clock you're atyour job that you can't afford
to have any time off, then Ithen then I have not been
supportive of this partnership.
Maybe I should say, well, tellme Nathan, what works for you.
(06:32):
Nathan, you may say, well, 6:30,um, but we're gonna need some
child care.
I gotta be willing to be openand to do that.
And so when I talk about it'sit's intentionality from the
start, but I have to also nowknow a little bit about Nathan
and know a little bit about yourculture to understand that
childcare is extremely importantin our conversations around
engagement and around trust.
And then we have to take a lookat when we talk about building
(06:54):
blocks.
Let's just stay there withtrust.
Too often, systems have donethings to people.
And oftentimes those things thathave been done to people, and
once again, some systems startwith this heart of, I think I'm
doing well.
I'm helping people.
But if we haven't had theconversation, then you're
starting at a different place.
But too often it is those thosecommunities and those families
(07:15):
have been done to versus donewith.
An example is that if I show upat your place, Nathan, and I
say, Hi Nathan, I'm KeithBostick, and I'm from the
Department of Children andFamily Service, and I'm here to
help you.
In some situations, that couldbe an oxymoron, because my
history around help from systemslike you have been harm and
trauma.
And so trust and engagement.
(07:36):
So I think when we talk aboutwhat transformation looks like,
it is first establishing thattrust, establishing that
engagement, that intentionality,understanding, and having a
joint share vision about whatsuccess is gonna look like.
Because my success and yoursuccess may be, may be different
and look different.
But it doesn't mean we can'tboth get there.
Then I think we have to thenconvince or shift hearts and
(07:56):
minds.
Um you will continuallycontinually hear me talk about
mindset and heart space,shifting hearts and minds,
because I start with what youbelieve is gonna drive your
will, and your will is gonnadrive your practice.
So if I don't believe thatchange can occur, then my
willingness to do, as I call mywill a meter, is gonna be
extremely low.
(08:17):
So therefore, my practice, myactions may be delayed, my my
courage may be a little bitdelayed, and my effort to engage
others to this work.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
There has to be other people brought to the
conversation.
Keith, I am so glad you madetime for me today.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Well, thank you so much, Nathan.
Keep up your good work.
And stay tuned for moreinterviews from PCA America's
National Conference Podcast.
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