July 24, 2025 • 30 mins
In this powerful episode of The Shift: Voices of Prevention, Prevent Child Abuse America’s leadership team—Dr. Melissa Merrick (President & CEO), Dr. Bart Klika (Chief Research Officer), and Jennifer Jones (Chief Strategy Officer)—come together to reflect on a pivotal moment for the prevention movement.
With candor and urgency, they explore what it means to lead at the intersection of equity, innovation, and community wisdom. From reimagining systems to centering lived experience, this conversation offers a compelling look at the future we’re building—one rooted in connection, courage, and collective action.
This is more than strategy—it’s a call to rise to the moment, together.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:09):
This is The Shift Voices of Prevention, a podcast
from Prevent Child Abuse Americawhere we explore bold ideas,
cultural change, and what ittruly means to support children
and families.
Join us to change the narrativeone conversation at a time.
Today's show was brought to youby PCA America's 2025 National
(00:30):
Conference.
Hosted in Portland, Oregon,August 12th through August 14th,
the transformative three-dayconference features three
keynote speakers and more than70 workshops that dive into the
key drivers of change.
From innovative programs andpractices to family-focused
policies, cutting-edge research,and public awareness and
engagement strategies, theconference is designed to push
(00:51):
the field toward upstreamprevention and creating a future
where every child and family canthrive.
To be in the room when changehappens, visit
preventchildabuse.org.
Hello and welcome to the ShiftVoices of Prevention.
I'm your host, Nathan Fink, andI'm excited to be joined by
(01:11):
members of the PCA AmericaSenior Leadership Team,
President and CEO, Dr.
Melissa Merrick, Chief ResearchOfficer, Dr.
Bart Klicka, and Chief StrategyOfficer Jennifer Jones, MSW.
It is so good to see you all.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Great to be here with you, Nate.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Always great to see you.
We're so excited.
Also very excited to have youwith us in uh in Portland uh in
less than a month.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
I'm excited to see you all too.
Every time I do, we have a lotto talk about, including that
2025 PCA America NationalConference, August 12th through
August 14th in Portland, Oregon.
But before we get there, I wantto better understand what it
means to host a conferencefocused on primary prevention,
the programs and practices,cutting edge research in this
(01:54):
particular environment, a timewhen the field is experiencing,
for all intents and purposes, ahistoric divestment in
evidence-based strategies thatprevent child abuse and neglect.
Now, this is a question for allof you, but perhaps let's start
with Melissa.
Talk to us a bit about what thefield is experiencing at this
point in time.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
Goodness, it's a big question, Nate.
And thanks.
It's always great to chat withyou.
You know, I think a lot aboutparenting in this moment.
And uh this is an unprecedentedtime for parents.
So when I really think aboutfamilies and what families are
experiencing right now, it isjust a really, really stressful
(02:36):
time.
And you mentioned many of thereasons.
You know, many of our socialsafety net programs are being
threatened or cut or eliminated,frankly.
And so in a time where stress issuper high and this investment
in prevention is being uhthreatened, that means the
conditions are ripe for thingsnot going great for families,
(02:59):
right?
And so we know through decadesof research that we need to meet
families where they are.
We need to help them navigatethe challenges of parenting.
And in a time like this, whereagain, the real and perceived
threats just add to the overloadon families, I will just say the
field must respond in kind,right?
(03:21):
We must come together with ourhearts, our minds, our
creativity, our innovation, ourpartnerships to really figure
out how we're gonna meet thismoment.
It's kind of similar to, youknow, an unprecedented global
health pandemic, COVID-19, wherewe were all uh just a few short
years ago, right?
And it's sort of like, gosh,parenting is always hard, but in
(03:42):
a time of just acute stress andtrauma and not having access to
high-quality childcare or anychildcare, frankly, right?
We knew that risks were high,but we were able to meet that
moment together with creativity,with partnership, with a lot of
humility, right?
Listening to what people need,helping them get their needs met
(04:04):
in their own communities beforethey were really in acute
crisis.
This is the challenge of thistime, too.
And I think, you know, we arelucky and proud at the National
Office of Prevent Child AbuseAmerica to do our work in
partnership with Boots on theGround, with our state chapters,
with our Healthy FamiliesAmerica affiliates, with
(04:25):
multiple partners across sector,right?
Who can be creative, who can besteadfast, who can really stay
the course in this time.
Yes, we have unprecedentedthreats to our funding, to our
bottom line, where many of usare gonna have to shift the way
that we staff, the way that weprovide support, but the
(04:45):
commitment and the values, thecore values of our work are the
same.
That all parents are trying todo the very best they can and
trying to navigate untenableconditions that really can never
be up to them alone to solve.
Things like historical traumaand generational trauma and you
(05:06):
know, all the isms and all ofthe kind of oppressive systems.
Not any of us, no matter howhard we try, we cannot do that
alone.
We need one another.
And so I think that the field, Imean, together, like at a
conference like ours, buttogether in our round tables, in
our conversations, in ourpartnerships, we're trying to
(05:26):
meet this moment.
We're trying to figure out whatis it that we need to do more of
uh for impact for families andwhat are the things that frankly
might be a nice to have, but nota must-have in this time, right?
And and I think everybody istrying to do that and with some
real tangible issues, right?
Like funding's cut, what are wegonna do?
(05:47):
We don't, you know, we have tosupport our time and talent and
and and our workforce, right?
We have to support our workforcetoo.
These threats like ofdeportation and immigration and
being detained that we knowfamilies are experiencing, it's
not just families that wepartner to serve.
It's our own families.
It's our own home visitingworkforce, it's our own chapter
(06:08):
uh network, right?
We live in the same communitiesas the families that we um
partner with to support.
So it's just a time for a lot ofhumility, but a lot of agency, a
lot of commitment to we may haveto not just do things better, we
may have to do better things inthis time, right?
And and and how we all togetherare needed uh to really create
(06:34):
the future that we want.
We want communities that aresupported with love and uh care,
and we want to maximizepossibility.
That is just more important thanever.
So I think we're changing inmany ways, but kind of our core
uh functions, our core focus,our core commitment to making
sure that all children andfamilies live a happy and
(06:56):
purposeful life with hope forthe future.
That is the work.
That's the work that we all doin partnership.
SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
Yeah, I think um a couple of things, Nate.
It's uh initially we wereconcerned with the turnout for
our national conference uh inPortland in August, given some
of the deep cuts that we knowthat states and organizations
are going to be facing with thefederal government's budget
priorities.
But as of today, we are close touh a thousand people registered.
(07:25):
Um, we're still about a monthout from the conference.
Our registration numbers aretrending higher than Baltimore
and Milwaukee's conferences.
And we really believe thatpeople want to be together.
They want to be with theirpeers, they want to be able to
network and learn, and they wantthe camaraderie, if you will,
um, right, during thesechallenging times.
(07:46):
And so I think we are gonna haveuh uh an amazing opportunity to
be together in person and toreally learn and grow.
And as Melissa said, do uh dothings differently.
Talk about hard and challengingthings, but also talk about
solutions, uh, solutions that weknow that are important, but
(08:07):
also we know are much needed uhin this particular time.
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Now, Bart, I keep thinking that none of this
impact of these choices is newto us.
The research tells us and thedata indicators show us, whether
it's the child flourishing indexor adverse childhood experiences
data, we know where we've been.
Is there a way you can help usunderstand what the data tells
us through specific child andfamily wellness indicators about
(08:35):
the implications of such adivestment?
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
It's a great question.
And uh, you know, I think thehistory of our organization
being a child maltreatmentprevention organization, I think
it's very easy for us to say,well, let's just look into the
indicators of, you know, forexample, child welfare
involvement, and we use that asa proxy to say about how big of
the problem child abuse andneglect is each year.
(09:00):
But I think to the point youwere making, you we've really
started to try to expand beyondjust saying that's the only way
that we try to understand howwell families are doing right
now.
And so, like you said, we lookat indicators of cases, but
we're also starting to look intothings like child flourishing.
The National Survey ofChildren's Health has tracked
(09:22):
over time children'sflourishing, you know, because
it's one thing to say, you know,maybe a child hasn't experienced
uh abuse, neglect, sexual abuse,but are they actually
flourishing?
Because if not, that could be aproblem.
And so as much as we want totrack these things like child
maltreatment or childflourishing, we're also really
interested in saying what arethe things that promote child
(09:46):
flourishing or that reduce childmaltreatment.
So some of the work that we'reengaged in right now is looking
at the data on what are theresources that families need?
Uh, are those resourcesavailable to families to support
their overall well-being or toreduce uh child maltreatment?
(10:08):
So, through the leadership, alot of the leadership uh of Jen
with our data story as anorganization, we're actually
building out as an organizationa data dashboard where we
actually pull together differentsources of data, both on in
terms of, you know, what are thechallenges families are
experiencing with maltreatmentand ACEs, but also things like
(10:29):
flourishing and at the same timestarting to look at what are
some of the drivers of these?
What policies are in place instates?
Do families have access to homevisiting in their state?
Do they have access totreatment?
Do they have access to healthcare, which can open up
possibilities uh for otherthings?
(10:50):
And you know, you were askingtoo, Nate, just about uh, you
know, the overall state offamilies now.
And I came across a statisticearlier this week from the
Stanford Center on EarlyChildhood that they've really
been tracking child and familywell-being since early in the
pandemic.
They had done a fantastic job ofreally trying to understand how
(11:12):
families are navigating thecircumstances of the pandemic,
and they're continuing tocollect data on families.
And I think one of the moststark things that they've been
tracking are families'experiences of material
hardship.
And in addition to trackingmaterial hardship, they've been
able to actually also look atwhat material hardship does to
(11:35):
the parents, but also to thechildren.
And so they've been able todemonstrate this link that when
families are experiencingmaterial hardship, which right
now with talks about the expenseof meeting basic needs with
threats to programs and servicesfor families, families are
experiencing material hardship.
(11:56):
And when families experiencematerial hardship, what they've
shown is that actually increasesfamily distress, like the
distress of parents, and thenthe distress of parents has an
effect on the distress,emotional distress of kids.
And so this is really what we'retrying to do to understand how
kids and families are doing andthe types of things that we need
(12:20):
to put into place to supportkids and families.
SPEAKER_02 (12:23):
Now it strikes me that when we look at the data
that we've collected over time,the preponderance of it is
really indicating when and wherefamilies are not doing well.
But what I'm hearing is there isa pivot now to start to track
the indications of wellness infamilies in present tense.
(12:43):
While this type of indicator isnew in terms of the way we think
about it, are there anyindications about what works for
families to thrive?
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
No, as we were talking about, there's no one
thing out there that's gonnasupport kids and families or to
create overall well-being andflourishing.
It's really what Jen and Melissaand others talk about with
building an ecosystem of supportfor families.
That can mean support for thingslike home visiting, which, you
(13:15):
know, we have research to showthat it improves outcomes for
families.
Like I said earlier, it could beaccess to health care that's
going to open up possibilitiesfor families to get into
treatment, for families to getthe mental health support that
they need.
And one area that I've beenworking on for the last number
of years is the area of concreteand economic supports for
(13:37):
families.
We know that when we can reducethe material hardship that
families are experiencing, theydo well.
Now, the example that I will usefrom my work is around the area
of child care subsidies.
We've been studying the effectof child care subsidies and
choices that states make abouttheir child care subsidy
programs to look at whether ornot that actually reduces things
(14:01):
like child maltreatment orintimate partner violence.
And I think the very high-levelfinding that we have is that
when you have an expansivepolicy, when you allow more
families to qualify for theseprograms, you see rates in those
states are actually lower.
But when we make it difficultfor families to access or to
(14:23):
keep these services once theyhave them, that diminishes any
of the good effects of thesepolicies.
And so I'm just giving that asone example of ways that we know
are showing to actually improvethe well-being of families.
SPEAKER_03 (14:40):
I was gonna invite Jen because obviously she has
authored and done a lot ofthinking in this area, but this
field of positive childhoodexperiences and how they can
balance out the adversity isreally powerful, right?
Even in the context of manyadversities, if you have strong
relationships, if you haveparental warmth, if you have,
(15:01):
you know, other adults in yourecosystem.
Um, you know, I always give theexample from my own personal
experience, like just havingsomeone's phone number that if
I'm running late to pick up mykids from childcare, I could
call someone, like a lifelinethat has been shown to keep kids
safe and family strong too,right?
And so it's it's both at the bigP policy level, like Bart has
(15:25):
shared a lot of our uh researchand data on policy level
interventions that help familieswithstand and thrive despite a
lot of challenges and stressors,but it can also be in individual
neighborhoods, cooking a mealfor a new parent and being a
lifeline uh to friends andfamily is really powerful.
(15:47):
And I think it gives us hope inthis time where some of our big
P policies, yes, are at risk.
And yes, it will remain our joband through our networks and
partners to advocate for thosegood things for families, but
there's stuff in our individualrelationships and in all of
those small moments that reallycan make a powerful difference
(16:07):
uh for families as well.
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
I I want to just take us back a minute to the
data dashboard because we areincredibly excited.
I'm incredibly excited aboutthat.
And Bart and his team, uh, theresearch team has been uh
leading a lot of sort of thebuilding, if you will, of the
data dashboard.
But it's all really based on ouraspirational outcomes, um,
loving and secure families,access to informal and formal
(16:29):
supports, physical health andmental health and well-being,
and economic mobility andfinancial stability.
Those are the aspirationaloutcomes that make up our
blueprint for family well-beingor our theory of change.
And so when Bart is talkingabout there are indicators on
there, like our childrenflourishing.
There are also indicators onthere around access to food and
(16:53):
housing and living wageemployment.
So we organize the datadashboard according to the North
Star and according to ouraspirational outcomes.
And so you're gonna see both,you know, our kids experiencing
fewer adverse childhoodexperiences, but are they also
flourishing?
And that to us is reallyimportant.
I think the other thing that'sreally important about the data
(17:14):
dashboard in particular is thatwe know that there are, as Bart
said, ecosystem conditions thatalso impact and affect the
well-being of kids and families.
And so we're not only gonna justlook at the individual level
outcomes, we're also gonna lookat the ecosystem condition
outcomes and how those are alsoimpacting uh kids and families,
(17:37):
because we know that's that's abig piece.
But all of this together, Ithink the exciting thing about
this, all of this together makesup the data, our data story.
What are we trying to tell,right?
What's the story we need to tellto determine whether or not
we're achieving our aspirationaloutcomes in our North Star?
And so we're building out amicro site.
It's gonna hopefully go livethis fall.
(18:00):
Um, and all of those pieces thatwe just talked about will be
part of that.
Additionally, each state willhave a state profile so they can
gather uh and they can look attheir data and how their state
is sort of experiencing familywell-being, if you will.
And we're gonna, Bart and histeam are really gonna talk about
like this is what the datameans, right?
(18:21):
So it's this whole idea, um, andyou uh uh Nate know this well,
the whole idea that it's acompilation, right, of these
particular impacts and outcomesthat are important.
And that's the story that we'retrying to tell.
Real quickly, uh, just to getback to Melissa's comments about
PCEs, we used it for the datadashboard, we used existing data
(18:44):
sources at the population levelthat currently exist in this
country.
There are no population leveldata sources around positive
childhood experiences, which weknow are absolutely critical and
important, um, if not more so,right, to later uh adult uh
mental and physical health andwell-being.
And so there may be a time wherewe're gonna have to create these
(19:07):
data sources so that we can tellthe story, uh, that the true
story that that exists in thiscountry about the health and
well-being of kids and families.
And so we're super excited uh tolaunch that uh the microsite,
hopefully again later this fall.
And uh, and obviously work willneed to happen on it as we go,
but there's some some greatstuff there and excited to share
(19:30):
it with the field.
SPEAKER_02 (19:31):
That's excellent.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Now, this work that issupporting families, that is
preventing child abuse andneglect, it has always needed us
and perhaps never needed usmore.
So I have three questions foryou.
Why should we be hopeful?
Where should we be intentional,and how can we be impactful?
SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
I really think and believe that this is our moment.
And I believe that despite allof the challenge and uh the
chaos and the uncertainty, thatwe have the opportunity to do
things differently.
And we have the opportunity toadvance our collective efforts
to build a primary preventionecosystem in communities across
(20:15):
the country.
I think that is the pathforward.
And so, really, this leveragingthe moment and creating the
extraordinary opportunities thatwe have and we know based on the
research and the feedback thatwe gathered as part of our
blueprint for family well-being,that this is an extraordinary
moment, an opportunity that wehave to create with families and
(20:38):
communities an ecosystem fromthe ground up that's focused on
creating the conditions for allchildren, families, and
communities to thrive.
And as Melissa mentioned, ourNorth Star would ensure that all
kids and families are living apurposeful and happy life with
hope for the future.
So, and we know that often intimes of chaos and change and
(20:59):
uncertainty, you can find andleverage opportunities for good.
And I still I and so I just Ibelieve, I'm hopeful.
Um we know our work is moreimportant than ever before.
We can't continue to do thethings uh that we've been done,
that we've always been doing,the way that we've always been
doing it.
So really seizing this moment,um, working to identify the
(21:24):
change uh that we want to see,that we've longed hope for for
kids and families in thiscountry, and really what we need
to accelerate that um and whatwe need to do differently to
make it uh through to the otherside.
I I've been calling themglimmers of hope, if you will.
SPEAKER_03 (21:40):
Yeah, I think it's really hard to even hear Jen and
her excitement and her voice andsuch and not to feel hope.
But truly, prevention ispossible.
We've known that, we'vedemonstrated that across
decades.
The science is strong, we'vecontributed uh to that science.
Certainly, our networks areusing that great science.
So I would say it's even morethat it's not just seizing the
(22:03):
opportunity, but it's ourresponsibility, having that
knowledge to move forward, tostay the course, to make sure
that even in a time wherescience is being threatened or
data systems are, you know, dataare disappearing or whatever,
and funds in kind to supportthat, that we don't let that be
(22:24):
it.
But you know, we stay thecourse.
We stay the course.
We're committed to our values,that we want this for every
child and every family in everycommunity to have what they need
before they're in crisis.
We might say that we're all in alittle bit of a crisis right
now, or a big bit of a crisisright now.
And so it's our responsibilityto use that science, use that
(22:48):
hope, and and keep it moving forour children and for our
children's children.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
What gives me hope is I go back to an experience we
had about a month or so ago atthe national office.
We had a group of eighth-gradestudents who had the
opportunity.
They had a gentleman whoprovided all the eighth grade
students with a little bit ofmoney that they could go out and
do some type of project to thenraise more money and then to
(23:15):
donate that money.
And they selected Prevent ChildAbuse America as the
organization that they wanted todonate money to.
So we invited them to thenational office and they came
in.
We had the opportunity to takethem around, we gave them
donuts, of course.
But uh after that, we we hadsome a chance to just talk with
them about, you know, Melissa'squestion was like, Why us?
(23:35):
Like, what you know, why why isit that you you selected us?
And I was automatically flooredby some of the responses that I
was getting from these eighthgrade students, and so we ran
them through an activity wherewe basically gave them our North
Star.
And we said, What is it thatthat helps families achieve this
(23:56):
North Star?
And didn't really give them anymore context, gave them big
sticky notes, said you got fiveminutes as a group.
I was absolutely floored by whatwe got back from them.
They were saying things likefamilies need connection,
families need access to livablewages, families need access to
health care.
(24:17):
This is the next generationcoming in behind us at some
point.
Jen, Nate, you, Melissa, I we'reall gonna be retiring at some
point in our lives, and we needto be thinking, and you asked
the question of beingintentional.
I think that it's beingintentional on how do we bring
in the next generation that isgonna take the great work we've
(24:40):
done and jump off our shouldersto do it even more.
And so what gives me hope isthat experience, and I think we
need to be intentional oncreating that as we move
forward.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
Back to the impact question and comments that we
all made is that we believestrongly that the impact is in
the primary prevention space,right?
We believe the most impact we'regonna have in this country is
around ensuring the conditions,right, for all kids and families
and communities to thrive.
And that means access to food.
(25:12):
It means access to free schoollunches, right?
It's not more child welfarecaseworkers.
It's making sure that kids andfamilies have what they need so
that they can live happy andhealthy and safe lives, um, and
they can keep their kids safeand their families strong.
And so we believe that's reallywhere the investment needs to be
(25:34):
made, where the impact is.
Um, and we have that data.
Bart's got that data about thecost effectiveness of
prevention.
And that's where we need tospend our time and energy.
SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
Yeah, I truly believe that this is the next
great chapter in the Americanstory.
And I have to tell you howrefreshing it is to hear this
perspective from this leadershipteam because that's where we
come together around this NorthStar.
Now, I want to lean into thatlast part of this question,
though.
How can we be impactful?
(26:06):
We've got a lot ahead of us.
What are some of the actionsteps that we can take so to be
part of this positive movement?
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
I'll I'll just say one thing is that I think that
we um over the at least mycareer, uh, and I've been doing,
you know, child welfare andprevention work for probably 25
plus years, is that we've alwayssort of wanted to kind of
disrupt, if you will, and changethe long-held systems in this
(26:36):
country that we know have causedgenerations of trauma for our
families.
Um, and I'm not just talkingabout one system.
There are a number of them,right?
Um, uh together that have donethat to our families.
But in order for us to uh to dothat, we need to do it and we
want to do it in partnershipwith families and communities,
(26:56):
right?
And we know what it takes.
Melissa mentioned this earlier.
We know what it takes.
Prevention works, right?
And so we just have to have thepolitical will and we need the
investment, right?
Um uh and so we believe that umthe what we need to do is really
lean into this idea ofecosystems of supports that all
(27:18):
families can access uh in theircommunities.
And so um I think there arethere are opportunities for for
for a lot of folks to getinvolved in this um in this work
in small ways, like coming toour conference uh or in big ways
where you're working inpartnership.
I I have I I think we're all uhecosystem engineers.
(27:43):
We all have a role to play.
And despite sort of where youare or what career you have or
what profession you have, we allhave a collective responsibility
to ensure that kids and familieshave what they need when they
need it in the communities wherethey live.
Um uh uh hashtag MelissaMerrick's uh statement.
SPEAKER_01 (28:05):
You know, I think how we can be impactful.
Again, I I think we're we'requoting a lot of the things that
that we hear from from Melissaand have for some time, but the
idea that prevention happens inpartnership.
You know, we know that there'sno one single organization,
there's no one single model,approach, policy that is going
(28:28):
to create that North Star visionthat we have for children and
families.
And we have to recognize that.
We have to recognize that we'vegot a small slice of the pie to
prevent child abuse in America,but we rely on partners from
other sectors.
We rely on partnering withfamilies, we rely on so many
(28:49):
other things to create have thisvision come to fruition.
And so I think that increasingour impact has to do with
realizing that we need to linkarms as a field uh to be able to
move forward.
SPEAKER_03 (29:03):
I just think prevention is possible.
We've demonstrated it, and nowit's our time to maximize that
possibility, especially at atime where it's needed now more
than ever, right?
And so, yes, we must do that inpartnership, we must do that in
community, and we have to dothat with more than just our
policies and our research.
We have to do that with ourhearts, we have to do that with
(29:26):
our minds, we have to do thatwith our relationships, with our
conversations, right?
It's happening in every littlemoment.
And so I agree, I hope people dojoin us uh in Portland, Oregon.
I think there will be a lot ofmeetings of the minds and
hearts, and you know, in smalland big doses, there will also
(29:46):
be dancing and sunshine and umlaughter.
Because also, let me just saythat this work is really hard
and we all know it.
It's really hard.
And yet we are needed for thelong term.
Right.
So we need to have some levity.
We have to have community.
We have to have camaraderie.
And we got to get to business.
(30:06):
We got to get to work andprevent all the bad things and
promote all the good things anddo that with love and humility
together.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
This has been absolutely fantastic.
Thank you so much for joiningthe conversation.
And thank you for hosting theconversation August 12th through
August 14th in Portland, Oregonat the 2025 Prevent Child Abuse
America Conference.
And you can invite upstreamsolutions into your feed by
subscribing to the Shift Voicesof Prevention today.
(30:40):
Join us to create an ecosystemwhere children and families live
purposeful and happy lives withhope for the future.
This is The Shift Voices of Prevention, a podcast
from Prevent Child Abuse Americawhere we explore bold ideas,
cultural change, and what ittruly means to support children
and families.
Join us to change the narrativeone conversation at a time.
Today's show was brought to youby PCA America's 2025 National
(00:30):
Conference.
Hosted in Portland, Oregon,August 12th through August 14th,
the transformative three-dayconference features three
keynote speakers and more than70 workshops that dive into the
key drivers of change.
From innovative programs andpractices to family-focused
policies, cutting-edge research,and public awareness and
engagement strategies, theconference is designed to push
(00:51):
the field toward upstreamprevention and creating a future
where every child and family canthrive.
To be in the room when changehappens, visit
preventchildabuse.org.
Hello and welcome to the ShiftVoices of Prevention.
I'm your host, Nathan Fink, andI'm excited to be joined by
(01:11):
members of the PCA AmericaSenior Leadership Team,
President and CEO, Dr.
Melissa Merrick, Chief ResearchOfficer, Dr.
Bart Klicka, and Chief StrategyOfficer Jennifer Jones, MSW.
It is so good to see you all.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Great to be here with you, Nate.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Always great to see you.
We're so excited.
Also very excited to have youwith us in uh in Portland uh in
less than a month.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
I'm excited to see you all too.
Every time I do, we have a lotto talk about, including that
2025 PCA America NationalConference, August 12th through
August 14th in Portland, Oregon.
But before we get there, I wantto better understand what it
means to host a conferencefocused on primary prevention,
the programs and practices,cutting edge research in this
(01:54):
particular environment, a timewhen the field is experiencing,
for all intents and purposes, ahistoric divestment in
evidence-based strategies thatprevent child abuse and neglect.
Now, this is a question for allof you, but perhaps let's start
with Melissa.
Talk to us a bit about what thefield is experiencing at this
point in time.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
Goodness, it's a big question, Nate.
And thanks.
It's always great to chat withyou.
You know, I think a lot aboutparenting in this moment.
And uh this is an unprecedentedtime for parents.
So when I really think aboutfamilies and what families are
experiencing right now, it isjust a really, really stressful
(02:36):
time.
And you mentioned many of thereasons.
You know, many of our socialsafety net programs are being
threatened or cut or eliminated,frankly.
And so in a time where stress issuper high and this investment
in prevention is being uhthreatened, that means the
conditions are ripe for thingsnot going great for families,
(02:59):
right?
And so we know through decadesof research that we need to meet
families where they are.
We need to help them navigatethe challenges of parenting.
And in a time like this, whereagain, the real and perceived
threats just add to the overloadon families, I will just say the
field must respond in kind,right?
(03:21):
We must come together with ourhearts, our minds, our
creativity, our innovation, ourpartnerships to really figure
out how we're gonna meet thismoment.
It's kind of similar to, youknow, an unprecedented global
health pandemic, COVID-19, wherewe were all uh just a few short
years ago, right?
And it's sort of like, gosh,parenting is always hard, but in
(03:42):
a time of just acute stress andtrauma and not having access to
high-quality childcare or anychildcare, frankly, right?
We knew that risks were high,but we were able to meet that
moment together with creativity,with partnership, with a lot of
humility, right?
Listening to what people need,helping them get their needs met
(04:04):
in their own communities beforethey were really in acute
crisis.
This is the challenge of thistime, too.
And I think, you know, we arelucky and proud at the National
Office of Prevent Child AbuseAmerica to do our work in
partnership with Boots on theGround, with our state chapters,
with our Healthy FamiliesAmerica affiliates, with
(04:25):
multiple partners across sector,right?
Who can be creative, who can besteadfast, who can really stay
the course in this time.
Yes, we have unprecedentedthreats to our funding, to our
bottom line, where many of usare gonna have to shift the way
that we staff, the way that weprovide support, but the
(04:45):
commitment and the values, thecore values of our work are the
same.
That all parents are trying todo the very best they can and
trying to navigate untenableconditions that really can never
be up to them alone to solve.
Things like historical traumaand generational trauma and you
(05:06):
know, all the isms and all ofthe kind of oppressive systems.
Not any of us, no matter howhard we try, we cannot do that
alone.
We need one another.
And so I think that the field, Imean, together, like at a
conference like ours, buttogether in our round tables, in
our conversations, in ourpartnerships, we're trying to
(05:26):
meet this moment.
We're trying to figure out whatis it that we need to do more of
uh for impact for families andwhat are the things that frankly
might be a nice to have, but nota must-have in this time, right?
And and I think everybody istrying to do that and with some
real tangible issues, right?
Like funding's cut, what are wegonna do?
(05:47):
We don't, you know, we have tosupport our time and talent and
and and our workforce, right?
We have to support our workforcetoo.
These threats like ofdeportation and immigration and
being detained that we knowfamilies are experiencing, it's
not just families that wepartner to serve.
It's our own families.
It's our own home visitingworkforce, it's our own chapter
(06:08):
uh network, right?
We live in the same communitiesas the families that we um
partner with to support.
So it's just a time for a lot ofhumility, but a lot of agency, a
lot of commitment to we may haveto not just do things better, we
may have to do better things inthis time, right?
And and and how we all togetherare needed uh to really create
(06:34):
the future that we want.
We want communities that aresupported with love and uh care,
and we want to maximizepossibility.
That is just more important thanever.
So I think we're changing inmany ways, but kind of our core
uh functions, our core focus,our core commitment to making
sure that all children andfamilies live a happy and
(06:56):
purposeful life with hope forthe future.
That is the work.
That's the work that we all doin partnership.
SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
Yeah, I think um a couple of things, Nate.
It's uh initially we wereconcerned with the turnout for
our national conference uh inPortland in August, given some
of the deep cuts that we knowthat states and organizations
are going to be facing with thefederal government's budget
priorities.
But as of today, we are close touh a thousand people registered.
(07:25):
Um, we're still about a monthout from the conference.
Our registration numbers aretrending higher than Baltimore
and Milwaukee's conferences.
And we really believe thatpeople want to be together.
They want to be with theirpeers, they want to be able to
network and learn, and they wantthe camaraderie, if you will,
um, right, during thesechallenging times.
(07:46):
And so I think we are gonna haveuh uh an amazing opportunity to
be together in person and toreally learn and grow.
And as Melissa said, do uh dothings differently.
Talk about hard and challengingthings, but also talk about
solutions, uh, solutions that weknow that are important, but
(08:07):
also we know are much needed uhin this particular time.
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Now, Bart, I keep thinking that none of this
impact of these choices is newto us.
The research tells us and thedata indicators show us, whether
it's the child flourishing indexor adverse childhood experiences
data, we know where we've been.
Is there a way you can help usunderstand what the data tells
us through specific child andfamily wellness indicators about
(08:35):
the implications of such adivestment?
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
It's a great question.
And uh, you know, I think thehistory of our organization
being a child maltreatmentprevention organization, I think
it's very easy for us to say,well, let's just look into the
indicators of, you know, forexample, child welfare
involvement, and we use that asa proxy to say about how big of
the problem child abuse andneglect is each year.
(09:00):
But I think to the point youwere making, you we've really
started to try to expand beyondjust saying that's the only way
that we try to understand howwell families are doing right
now.
And so, like you said, we lookat indicators of cases, but
we're also starting to look intothings like child flourishing.
The National Survey ofChildren's Health has tracked
(09:22):
over time children'sflourishing, you know, because
it's one thing to say, you know,maybe a child hasn't experienced
uh abuse, neglect, sexual abuse,but are they actually
flourishing?
Because if not, that could be aproblem.
And so as much as we want totrack these things like child
maltreatment or childflourishing, we're also really
interested in saying what arethe things that promote child
(09:46):
flourishing or that reduce childmaltreatment.
So some of the work that we'reengaged in right now is looking
at the data on what are theresources that families need?
Uh, are those resourcesavailable to families to support
their overall well-being or toreduce uh child maltreatment?
(10:08):
So, through the leadership, alot of the leadership uh of Jen
with our data story as anorganization, we're actually
building out as an organizationa data dashboard where we
actually pull together differentsources of data, both on in
terms of, you know, what are thechallenges families are
experiencing with maltreatmentand ACEs, but also things like
(10:29):
flourishing and at the same timestarting to look at what are
some of the drivers of these?
What policies are in place instates?
Do families have access to homevisiting in their state?
Do they have access totreatment?
Do they have access to healthcare, which can open up
possibilities uh for otherthings?
(10:50):
And you know, you were askingtoo, Nate, just about uh, you
know, the overall state offamilies now.
And I came across a statisticearlier this week from the
Stanford Center on EarlyChildhood that they've really
been tracking child and familywell-being since early in the
pandemic.
They had done a fantastic job ofreally trying to understand how
(11:12):
families are navigating thecircumstances of the pandemic,
and they're continuing tocollect data on families.
And I think one of the moststark things that they've been
tracking are families'experiences of material
hardship.
And in addition to trackingmaterial hardship, they've been
able to actually also look atwhat material hardship does to
(11:35):
the parents, but also to thechildren.
And so they've been able todemonstrate this link that when
families are experiencingmaterial hardship, which right
now with talks about the expenseof meeting basic needs with
threats to programs and servicesfor families, families are
experiencing material hardship.
(11:56):
And when families experiencematerial hardship, what they've
shown is that actually increasesfamily distress, like the
distress of parents, and thenthe distress of parents has an
effect on the distress,emotional distress of kids.
And so this is really what we'retrying to do to understand how
kids and families are doing andthe types of things that we need
(12:20):
to put into place to supportkids and families.
SPEAKER_02 (12:23):
Now it strikes me that when we look at the data
that we've collected over time,the preponderance of it is
really indicating when and wherefamilies are not doing well.
But what I'm hearing is there isa pivot now to start to track
the indications of wellness infamilies in present tense.
(12:43):
While this type of indicator isnew in terms of the way we think
about it, are there anyindications about what works for
families to thrive?
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
No, as we were talking about, there's no one
thing out there that's gonnasupport kids and families or to
create overall well-being andflourishing.
It's really what Jen and Melissaand others talk about with
building an ecosystem of supportfor families.
That can mean support for thingslike home visiting, which, you
(13:15):
know, we have research to showthat it improves outcomes for
families.
Like I said earlier, it could beaccess to health care that's
going to open up possibilitiesfor families to get into
treatment, for families to getthe mental health support that
they need.
And one area that I've beenworking on for the last number
of years is the area of concreteand economic supports for
(13:37):
families.
We know that when we can reducethe material hardship that
families are experiencing, theydo well.
Now, the example that I will usefrom my work is around the area
of child care subsidies.
We've been studying the effectof child care subsidies and
choices that states make abouttheir child care subsidy
programs to look at whether ornot that actually reduces things
(14:01):
like child maltreatment orintimate partner violence.
And I think the very high-levelfinding that we have is that
when you have an expansivepolicy, when you allow more
families to qualify for theseprograms, you see rates in those
states are actually lower.
But when we make it difficultfor families to access or to
(14:23):
keep these services once theyhave them, that diminishes any
of the good effects of thesepolicies.
And so I'm just giving that asone example of ways that we know
are showing to actually improvethe well-being of families.
SPEAKER_03 (14:40):
I was gonna invite Jen because obviously she has
authored and done a lot ofthinking in this area, but this
field of positive childhoodexperiences and how they can
balance out the adversity isreally powerful, right?
Even in the context of manyadversities, if you have strong
relationships, if you haveparental warmth, if you have,
(15:01):
you know, other adults in yourecosystem.
Um, you know, I always give theexample from my own personal
experience, like just havingsomeone's phone number that if
I'm running late to pick up mykids from childcare, I could
call someone, like a lifelinethat has been shown to keep kids
safe and family strong too,right?
And so it's it's both at the bigP policy level, like Bart has
(15:25):
shared a lot of our uh researchand data on policy level
interventions that help familieswithstand and thrive despite a
lot of challenges and stressors,but it can also be in individual
neighborhoods, cooking a mealfor a new parent and being a
lifeline uh to friends andfamily is really powerful.
(15:47):
And I think it gives us hope inthis time where some of our big
P policies, yes, are at risk.
And yes, it will remain our joband through our networks and
partners to advocate for thosegood things for families, but
there's stuff in our individualrelationships and in all of
those small moments that reallycan make a powerful difference
(16:07):
uh for families as well.
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
I I want to just take us back a minute to the
data dashboard because we areincredibly excited.
I'm incredibly excited aboutthat.
And Bart and his team, uh, theresearch team has been uh
leading a lot of sort of thebuilding, if you will, of the
data dashboard.
But it's all really based on ouraspirational outcomes, um,
loving and secure families,access to informal and formal
(16:29):
supports, physical health andmental health and well-being,
and economic mobility andfinancial stability.
Those are the aspirationaloutcomes that make up our
blueprint for family well-beingor our theory of change.
And so when Bart is talkingabout there are indicators on
there, like our childrenflourishing.
There are also indicators onthere around access to food and
(16:53):
housing and living wageemployment.
So we organize the datadashboard according to the North
Star and according to ouraspirational outcomes.
And so you're gonna see both,you know, our kids experiencing
fewer adverse childhoodexperiences, but are they also
flourishing?
And that to us is reallyimportant.
I think the other thing that'sreally important about the data
(17:14):
dashboard in particular is thatwe know that there are, as Bart
said, ecosystem conditions thatalso impact and affect the
well-being of kids and families.
And so we're not only gonna justlook at the individual level
outcomes, we're also gonna lookat the ecosystem condition
outcomes and how those are alsoimpacting uh kids and families,
(17:37):
because we know that's that's abig piece.
But all of this together, Ithink the exciting thing about
this, all of this together makesup the data, our data story.
What are we trying to tell,right?
What's the story we need to tellto determine whether or not
we're achieving our aspirationaloutcomes in our North Star?
And so we're building out amicro site.
It's gonna hopefully go livethis fall.
(18:00):
Um, and all of those pieces thatwe just talked about will be
part of that.
Additionally, each state willhave a state profile so they can
gather uh and they can look attheir data and how their state
is sort of experiencing familywell-being, if you will.
And we're gonna, Bart and histeam are really gonna talk about
like this is what the datameans, right?
(18:21):
So it's this whole idea, um, andyou uh uh Nate know this well,
the whole idea that it's acompilation, right, of these
particular impacts and outcomesthat are important.
And that's the story that we'retrying to tell.
Real quickly, uh, just to getback to Melissa's comments about
PCEs, we used it for the datadashboard, we used existing data
(18:44):
sources at the population levelthat currently exist in this
country.
There are no population leveldata sources around positive
childhood experiences, which weknow are absolutely critical and
important, um, if not more so,right, to later uh adult uh
mental and physical health andwell-being.
And so there may be a time wherewe're gonna have to create these
(19:07):
data sources so that we can tellthe story, uh, that the true
story that that exists in thiscountry about the health and
well-being of kids and families.
And so we're super excited uh tolaunch that uh the microsite,
hopefully again later this fall.
And uh, and obviously work willneed to happen on it as we go,
but there's some some greatstuff there and excited to share
(19:30):
it with the field.
SPEAKER_02 (19:31):
That's excellent.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Now, this work that issupporting families, that is
preventing child abuse andneglect, it has always needed us
and perhaps never needed usmore.
So I have three questions foryou.
Why should we be hopeful?
Where should we be intentional,and how can we be impactful?
SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
I really think and believe that this is our moment.
And I believe that despite allof the challenge and uh the
chaos and the uncertainty, thatwe have the opportunity to do
things differently.
And we have the opportunity toadvance our collective efforts
to build a primary preventionecosystem in communities across
(20:15):
the country.
I think that is the pathforward.
And so, really, this leveragingthe moment and creating the
extraordinary opportunities thatwe have and we know based on the
research and the feedback thatwe gathered as part of our
blueprint for family well-being,that this is an extraordinary
moment, an opportunity that wehave to create with families and
(20:38):
communities an ecosystem fromthe ground up that's focused on
creating the conditions for allchildren, families, and
communities to thrive.
And as Melissa mentioned, ourNorth Star would ensure that all
kids and families are living apurposeful and happy life with
hope for the future.
So, and we know that often intimes of chaos and change and
(20:59):
uncertainty, you can find andleverage opportunities for good.
And I still I and so I just Ibelieve, I'm hopeful.
Um we know our work is moreimportant than ever before.
We can't continue to do thethings uh that we've been done,
that we've always been doing,the way that we've always been
doing it.
So really seizing this moment,um, working to identify the
(21:24):
change uh that we want to see,that we've longed hope for for
kids and families in thiscountry, and really what we need
to accelerate that um and whatwe need to do differently to
make it uh through to the otherside.
I I've been calling themglimmers of hope, if you will.
SPEAKER_03 (21:40):
Yeah, I think it's really hard to even hear Jen and
her excitement and her voice andsuch and not to feel hope.
But truly, prevention ispossible.
We've known that, we'vedemonstrated that across
decades.
The science is strong, we'vecontributed uh to that science.
Certainly, our networks areusing that great science.
So I would say it's even morethat it's not just seizing the
(22:03):
opportunity, but it's ourresponsibility, having that
knowledge to move forward, tostay the course, to make sure
that even in a time wherescience is being threatened or
data systems are, you know, dataare disappearing or whatever,
and funds in kind to supportthat, that we don't let that be
(22:24):
it.
But you know, we stay thecourse.
We stay the course.
We're committed to our values,that we want this for every
child and every family in everycommunity to have what they need
before they're in crisis.
We might say that we're all in alittle bit of a crisis right
now, or a big bit of a crisisright now.
And so it's our responsibilityto use that science, use that
(22:48):
hope, and and keep it moving forour children and for our
children's children.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
What gives me hope is I go back to an experience we
had about a month or so ago atthe national office.
We had a group of eighth-gradestudents who had the
opportunity.
They had a gentleman whoprovided all the eighth grade
students with a little bit ofmoney that they could go out and
do some type of project to thenraise more money and then to
(23:15):
donate that money.
And they selected Prevent ChildAbuse America as the
organization that they wanted todonate money to.
So we invited them to thenational office and they came
in.
We had the opportunity to takethem around, we gave them
donuts, of course.
But uh after that, we we hadsome a chance to just talk with
them about, you know, Melissa'squestion was like, Why us?
(23:35):
Like, what you know, why why isit that you you selected us?
And I was automatically flooredby some of the responses that I
was getting from these eighthgrade students, and so we ran
them through an activity wherewe basically gave them our North
Star.
And we said, What is it thatthat helps families achieve this
(23:56):
North Star?
And didn't really give them anymore context, gave them big
sticky notes, said you got fiveminutes as a group.
I was absolutely floored by whatwe got back from them.
They were saying things likefamilies need connection,
families need access to livablewages, families need access to
health care.
(24:17):
This is the next generationcoming in behind us at some
point.
Jen, Nate, you, Melissa, I we'reall gonna be retiring at some
point in our lives, and we needto be thinking, and you asked
the question of beingintentional.
I think that it's beingintentional on how do we bring
in the next generation that isgonna take the great work we've
(24:40):
done and jump off our shouldersto do it even more.
And so what gives me hope isthat experience, and I think we
need to be intentional oncreating that as we move
forward.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
Back to the impact question and comments that we
all made is that we believestrongly that the impact is in
the primary prevention space,right?
We believe the most impact we'regonna have in this country is
around ensuring the conditions,right, for all kids and families
and communities to thrive.
And that means access to food.
(25:12):
It means access to free schoollunches, right?
It's not more child welfarecaseworkers.
It's making sure that kids andfamilies have what they need so
that they can live happy andhealthy and safe lives, um, and
they can keep their kids safeand their families strong.
And so we believe that's reallywhere the investment needs to be
(25:34):
made, where the impact is.
Um, and we have that data.
Bart's got that data about thecost effectiveness of
prevention.
And that's where we need tospend our time and energy.
SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
Yeah, I truly believe that this is the next
great chapter in the Americanstory.
And I have to tell you howrefreshing it is to hear this
perspective from this leadershipteam because that's where we
come together around this NorthStar.
Now, I want to lean into thatlast part of this question,
though.
How can we be impactful?
(26:06):
We've got a lot ahead of us.
What are some of the actionsteps that we can take so to be
part of this positive movement?
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
I'll I'll just say one thing is that I think that
we um over the at least mycareer, uh, and I've been doing,
you know, child welfare andprevention work for probably 25
plus years, is that we've alwayssort of wanted to kind of
disrupt, if you will, and changethe long-held systems in this
(26:36):
country that we know have causedgenerations of trauma for our
families.
Um, and I'm not just talkingabout one system.
There are a number of them,right?
Um, uh together that have donethat to our families.
But in order for us to uh to dothat, we need to do it and we
want to do it in partnershipwith families and communities,
(26:56):
right?
And we know what it takes.
Melissa mentioned this earlier.
We know what it takes.
Prevention works, right?
And so we just have to have thepolitical will and we need the
investment, right?
Um uh and so we believe that umthe what we need to do is really
lean into this idea ofecosystems of supports that all
(27:18):
families can access uh in theircommunities.
And so um I think there arethere are opportunities for for
for a lot of folks to getinvolved in this um in this work
in small ways, like coming toour conference uh or in big ways
where you're working inpartnership.
I I have I I think we're all uhecosystem engineers.
(27:43):
We all have a role to play.
And despite sort of where youare or what career you have or
what profession you have, we allhave a collective responsibility
to ensure that kids and familieshave what they need when they
need it in the communities wherethey live.
Um uh uh hashtag MelissaMerrick's uh statement.
SPEAKER_01 (28:05):
You know, I think how we can be impactful.
Again, I I think we're we'requoting a lot of the things that
that we hear from from Melissaand have for some time, but the
idea that prevention happens inpartnership.
You know, we know that there'sno one single organization,
there's no one single model,approach, policy that is going
(28:28):
to create that North Star visionthat we have for children and
families.
And we have to recognize that.
We have to recognize that we'vegot a small slice of the pie to
prevent child abuse in America,but we rely on partners from
other sectors.
We rely on partnering withfamilies, we rely on so many
(28:49):
other things to create have thisvision come to fruition.
And so I think that increasingour impact has to do with
realizing that we need to linkarms as a field uh to be able to
move forward.
SPEAKER_03 (29:03):
I just think prevention is possible.
We've demonstrated it, and nowit's our time to maximize that
possibility, especially at atime where it's needed now more
than ever, right?
And so, yes, we must do that inpartnership, we must do that in
community, and we have to dothat with more than just our
policies and our research.
We have to do that with ourhearts, we have to do that with
(29:26):
our minds, we have to do thatwith our relationships, with our
conversations, right?
It's happening in every littlemoment.
And so I agree, I hope people dojoin us uh in Portland, Oregon.
I think there will be a lot ofmeetings of the minds and
hearts, and you know, in smalland big doses, there will also
(29:46):
be dancing and sunshine and umlaughter.
Because also, let me just saythat this work is really hard
and we all know it.
It's really hard.
And yet we are needed for thelong term.
Right.
So we need to have some levity.
We have to have community.
We have to have camaraderie.
And we got to get to business.
(30:06):
We got to get to work andprevent all the bad things and
promote all the good things anddo that with love and humility
together.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
This has been absolutely fantastic.
Thank you so much for joiningthe conversation.
And thank you for hosting theconversation August 12th through
August 14th in Portland, Oregonat the 2025 Prevent Child Abuse
America Conference.
And you can invite upstreamsolutions into your feed by
subscribing to the Shift Voicesof Prevention today.
(30:40):
Join us to create an ecosystemwhere children and families live
purposeful and happy lives withhope for the future.
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