April 29, 2024 • 42 mins
PCA America is thrilled to bring you the second episode in its first ever conversation series hosted by our very own President & CEO, Dr. Melissa Merrick.
Dr. Merrick explores the importance of working together, in partnership, to support families further upstream so all kids can have a brighter future with special guest, the esteemed President & CEO for The Annie E. Casey Foundation, Lisa Hamilton. Listen to the full conversation and learn more about ways to better invest in adolescence, intergenerational strategies for primary prevention and intervention, and how to create the conditions needed for families to thrive.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
Hi, everyone.
This is Dr.
Melissa Merritt, President andCEO of Prevent Child Abuse
America.
I'm so thrilled today to be withLisa Hamilton.
Lisa is the president and CEO ofthe Annie E.
Casey Foundation and just acritical partner in this work.
Before becoming president, Lisaserved as the foundation's
executive vice president andchief program officer and vice
(00:35):
president of external affairs,leading Casey's work to provide
data, analysis, research, andpolicy solutions to help all
children realize their fullpotential.
In this role, she oversaw thefoundation's annual Kids Count
data book that I know we allrely on, and was a key architect
of the Race for Results series,which compares how children
(00:57):
across racial and ethnic groupsare faring at the state and
national levels on keyeducation, health, and economic
milestones.
Lisa has also spearheadedseveral new initiatives,
including the Thrive by 25effort, which I'm really excited
to hear more about, because itaims to improve outcomes for
adolescents ages 14 to 24 toensure that they successfully
(01:20):
transition to adulthood.
Lisa, there's so much more I cansay, and also just to say that I
just find you to be such a kindand available and humble leader.
And I'm just so excited to havethis conversation with you
today.
Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Thank you, Melissa.
I'm thrilled to be here, PreventChild Abuse America.
And you in particular have beenjust amazing partners with the
foundation.
So I'm happy to talk to you andto your listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
Yay, excellent.
So obviously, we're startingsomething new in Child Abuse
Prevention Month, April, withthis podcast series.
And, you know, our April themethis year is building a hopeful
future together.
And I think it will resonatewith you, but I would like to
know how this resonates with youand why you think it's important
(02:08):
that we promote Child AbusePrevention Month in this
country.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Well, I think that is a fabulous theme.
And as I read it, um, two wordsin particular resonated with me:
hopeful and together.
Um, I think the word hopefulbecause we know what it takes to
prevent child abuse and thethings kids need to thrive.
Um, it's not a mystery or anunsolvable puzzle.
(02:33):
This work is doable and thatcertainly gives me lots of hope.
Um, and then the word together.
Um, I'm sure we'll talk aboutpartnership a lot in this
conversation, but I like theword together because um we know
that to do this work requires acollective effort, not no single
organization can do it alone.
Um, and so I am thrilled thatyou've really highlighted um the
(02:56):
role of partnership in thiswork.
Um and then your question aboutwhy I think it's important that
we continue to um have ChildAbuse Prevention Month.
Um, I think it's because this issuch an important opportunity to
educate people about what ittakes to realize the vision of
(03:17):
preventing child abuse.
You know, I think lots of peopleknow that the child welfare
system is the public agencythat's charged with responding
to child abuse in this country,um, and that children whose
families are deemed unable tocare for them into the foster
care system.
Um, but I think there are lotsof assumptions in this country
among the general public aboutwhat child abuse is, you know,
(03:41):
believing that the child welfaresystem is responding primarily
to concerns about physical orsexual abuse.
But as you and I both know, moreoften than not, um uh child
welfare agencies are called inum to address issues of neglect,
which um, you know, if 60% ormore of um child welfare
(04:04):
investigations are related toneglect, we really need to
understand what's going onthere.
And um, you know, we we knowneglect is defined differently
across states, but it reallytypically applies to a lack of
basic needs, everything fromhousing to child care to
clothing, all of these thingsthat um we know low-income
(04:26):
families are struggling with.
And so um to sort of bring itback, I'm just excited that we
have this month every yearbecause it's an opportunity to
educate people on what this workis really about.
And it's really um quite oftenabout making sure families have
what they need to meet theirbasic needs and be
self-sufficient so that they andtheir children can thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
Oh, I love talking to partners like you, where
literally I'm like, I could haveanswered that question in the
exact same way.
Because it's the same two wordsthat resonate with me too,
hopeful, right?
This this idea that there'ssomething brighter on the other
side, right?
That's like just a basic humanum condition.
(05:10):
Um, and then together the factthat prevention can only happen
in partnership, and that's amongnational partners like us, but
it's among, you know, betweenfamilies and people with lived
expertise, and every sector hasa role to play in this work, not
just the child welfare system,right?
And I think that we live in acountry that's very reactionary,
(05:30):
right?
How we solve problems is we waitfor families to be in crisis to
get the services and supportsthat had they been available on
the front end, it would havekept them out of ever being
known to our downstream systems,as you as you said.
So I just think we're soaligned, and and I think that
this same kind of spirit cameout in our um adaptive strategic
(05:54):
planning process that you knowwe've been engaged in for the
past two years, and we're nowkind of implementing this theory
of change for primary preventionin the US, because it really
became clear to us that it wasbroader than PCA America's you
know, adaptive strategy.
You know, if once we listen tothousands of parents and
partners and philanthropy andpoliticians, right?
(06:17):
Everybody, we realize we're alltrying to get to a collective
North Star.
And we believe that's one ofthat all children and families
are living happy and purposefullives with hope for the future,
you know?
And uh we think that thatrequires an aligned and
comprehensive primary preventionecosystem that currently doesn't
(06:40):
exist in this country.
Tell me about your perspectiveon primary prevention and how
partnerships like ours andothers play a critical role.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
Sure.
Um, well, congratulations onthis um uh work that you've been
doing and the journey you're onto help us um in this country
build a primary preventionecosystem.
It's among the most importantthings we can do in this country
to ensure our children have abright future.
That's the mission of the AnnieCasey Foundation.
And so um, this work isfundamentally aligned with what
(07:13):
we believe children need.
So, you know, I think to start,I say that um this primary
prevention ecosystem reallychallenges historical narratives
that child abuse and neglectresult just from the deficits of
individual parents andcaregivers who might be raising
a child.
You talked about the Kids Countdata book.
(07:34):
You know, it's such an importantresource for us and for others
in the field because it's tryingto call attention to sort of the
context that children aregrowing up in.
And so um we're trying to callattention to systemic inequities
we know that exist aroundeconomic opportunity, affordable
housing, health care, um,education, incarceration, all of
(07:56):
these things are societalconditions that make it ever
more difficult for families toraise healthy, happy, um,
thriving children.
Um, and so, you know, because weknow there's no way we can sort
of get to the goals we wantthrough just programs and these
fragmented services andsupports, um, we know we've got
(08:18):
to shift this country to a focuson prevention.
We can't just keep spendingendless amounts of money trying
to intervene after a crisishappens, as you said, um, and
really struggling to getfamilies back on track.
So we we love this focus onprimary prevention because it
calls all of us to thinkproactively and not reactively.
(08:41):
And we know that our publicsystems aren't set up for
prevention, they are set up forintervention and reaction.
Um, you know, a statistic I'msure you know is that, you know,
the$35 billion that federal,state, and local governments
spend on child welfare, only 15%of it goes toward prevention.
(09:02):
Um, you know, so most of themoney is spent after a child and
a family experience a childabuse investigation or crisis.
And this absolutely has tochange if we want a better
outlook.
Um, research tells us that forevery dollar that's invested in
public benefits programs, statessave three times that amount in
(09:23):
maltreatment costs.
Um we've just got to move in adifferent direction and go
upstream.
It's better for children, itcosts uh less, um, and is really
the vision I think we all haveof what it means to have a
brighter future for kids.
Um, you asked about partnership.
I'll I'll reiterate, you know,in this context that partnership
(09:45):
is critical to moving in thatdirection.
What families need crosses umall kinds of sectors and
different issues from you knowbusiness to nonprofits to what
um public agencies provide.
Um, and so we know that thesesolutions are gonna need to look
different in every community.
They've got a different set ofnonprofits, different set of
(10:07):
agencies that are supportingfamilies.
Um, and so I'm I'm reallyexcited about the ways that
we're starting to demonstratewhat a tailored set of solutions
can look like in places.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Yeah, I love everything you said there,
especially you know, the focuson what kind of what makes this
work hard is that it's not a onesize fits all or that it's going
to look the same everywhere,right?
Context matters, conditionsmatter, historical trauma,
right?
Who the stakeholders, who thechampions in the community
varies.
(10:41):
Um and but but that doesn't meanthat we couldn't try it.
It doesn't mean that we couldn'tsay, look at all of our
evidence, look at all of oursolutions, look at that$35
billion that's going toward deepend, um, and only 15%.
And what if we put 30%?
What if we put that?
What if we would have?
(11:02):
Yeah, it's amazing, right?
And so I think, you know, thisis where I know I know that
Annie Casey um shares this withPCA America and with many of our
national partners, but obviouslywe need a prevention continuum,
right?
There are going to be familiesthat need intervention, right?
(11:22):
Or um there are going to betimes that we need secondary and
tertiary prevention activities.
But if we really move to be moreupstream, we can curb, you know,
or stem the flow of children andfamilies that touch our more
deep end, more costly, morereactive system.
So have what it takes.
We do.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
And I'll I'll even note, you know, we're very
excited about the potential ofthe Family First Act.
I mean, here is a new federalfinancing flow that can help
child welfare agencies andcommunities, doesn't just need
to be child welfare agencies,and communities find the
resources to go upstream.
So I'll note there is policyaction that is also providing a
(12:05):
tailwind to help us move in thisdirection.
And we're really excited aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:09):
Yeah, and I would say along with Family First,
which I think yes, is is animportant new step in the right
direction.
We also have, you know,community-based child abuse uh,
you know, uh preventionactivities and efforts that we
need more funding toward that,right?
Before families are in crisis.
Um I'm wondering if now might bea good time to talk about Thrive
(12:30):
by 25, because what I've beenlearning about it, I've been
just fascinated.
I see it super aligned with thisidea of a theory of change and a
primary prevention ecosystem,but really interested in you
giving our listeners a littleglimpse into what that
initiative is.
And do you think it aligns withthis creation of a primary
prevention ecosystem?
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
Well, I'll I'll answer the last question first
and say 100% it aligns.
Um, this work is really abouttrying to make sure that
adolescents, young people whoare between the ages of 14 and
24, make a positive transitionto adulthood.
As I became president of thefoundation, I looked across all
the work that we did andactually realized that
(13:14):
adolescence was the through linein many of our efforts from
child welfare focused on keepingolder youth out of congregate
care to juvenile justice effortsthat primarily focused on teens
and young adults to ourworkforce efforts that were
trying to get young people intopostsecondary or into work when
they finished high school.
(13:34):
And in the sort of child servingfield, there's been lots of
attention on younger children inpreschool, very little attention
on adolescents.
And I thought with all this newBrian Science coming out about
adolescents, how wonderful wouldit be for us as an organization
to really put a stake in theground around older young people
(13:57):
to defend childhood in itsfullness and help us make better
decisions as a society to ensureyoung people thrive.
And so that's what this work isabout, just making sure across
all of our various investmentsthat young people have family
connections, relationships,communities, and educational and
employment opportunities thatwill help them thrive.
(14:20):
It is important prevention workbecause if we don't do this, if
we don't make sure that theygraduate from high school and
get to college of work, we don'tmake sure that they avoid
criminal justice involvement, ifwe don't make sure they've got
permanent family to guide themforward, we're going to end up
in a place of intervention, oftrying to help uh young people
(14:42):
or adults get their lives backon track.
And so we see this as absolutelyimportant prevention work.
And the other thing I'll say isthat these young adults are the
parents or future parents ofyoung children.
And all the things that we'vebeen talking about are about how
we make sure that children havewhat they need to thrive.
(15:03):
And so I see it both as aninvestment in prevention for the
lives of these young people, butalso for the families that they
will have in the future.
Um, and so I think this is justcompletely aligned with your
theory of change and a way ofreally investing upstream in an
intergenerational way to makesure that families thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
And it's exciting to hear youpoint to those two important
prevention efforts, right?
It's it's preventing later badoutcomes for these youth, but
also it's true primaryprevention of the next
generation of kids that they'regoing to raise, right?
To to break these cycles ofviolence and trauma and inequity
(15:49):
over time.
So, really, in that way, it's sotrue to all of the brain
science, all of the science thatshows that we need to take
multi-generational or dualgeneration approaches to
prevention.
And I have to say that it's inlarge part because of our
partnership with Annie E.
Casey that we at PCA America hadtaken a look at our networks,
(16:11):
like, you know, work withadolescents, right?
Because it is what you say sotrue that so much of our field
on primary prevention, we maythink of birth to three or birth
to five.
But the truth is it's criticalthat we that we support positive
childhood experiences throughoutdevelopment.
And the data are clear that thatmakes changes, right?
(16:31):
On the positive for all of ourhealth, well-being, and economic
prosperity goals.
Um, so I really have to say thatit was really um in partnership
with you all and Sandra'sportfolio, Sandra Gasca Gonzalez
and her team and such to help usstart thinking uh in a critical
way about how we can say, yes,we want to help young kids and
(16:55):
families, but we don't stopwanting to focus on the
adolescents, right?
They're teaching.
SPEAKER_00 (17:02):
And they are often in child welfare systems and
enter many teens enter the childwelfare system as teens for very
different reasons, often forparent-child conflict.
And we view, you know, workwe're doing to help reduce those
conflicts as an investment inprevention as well.
If if teens and parents can havemore productive relationships,
(17:25):
we can again make sure feweryoung people are entering the
child welfare system.
So thank you for uh appreciatingand investing in the promise of
adolescence, is something I'mpassionate about and hope that
more people join us in payingattention to to older older
youth.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely critical, critical
part of the work.
Okay, so let's talk aboutsomething that we are both also
passionate about, and that'sthis Thriving Family Safer
Children initiative.
You know, it's such a it againhighlights the the critical
importance of collaboration andpartnership and across, you
(18:04):
know, multiple nationalpartners, the CEC, the
children's bureaus, uh, LibedExpert Leaders, Casey Family
Programs, and NEE, together withPCA America, and 22 sites across
the country coming together toreally figure out how we can
help families thrive whilekeeping our kids safe.
You know, I think this early inThriving Families, as we started
(18:27):
visioning this, it was like thisidea that, oh my gosh, we got to
keep kids safe.
And I think it's like, yeah, butkids are safer with their
families than from theirfamilies when their families
have what they need and aresupported in their own
communities with love and trustand without stigma, and again,
before they're in crisis.
That's really how Ioperationalize primary
(18:48):
prevention.
But so what do you, Lisa,envision for Thriving Families
work going forward?
And where do you see thealignment again with thriving
families with this primaryprevention ecosystem that we're
all trying to create?
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
I could not be more thrilled about this effort.
You know, it is rare that we getto work with 22 jurisdictions at
one time.
Many people may not know the,you know, the Casey Foundation
consults with various uhagencies to help them improve
their practices.
We do that, you know, in one orthree agencies at a time.
(19:23):
To be able to uh engage with 22at one time and with this
extraordinary set of partners isreally special.
And I hope people appreciatewhat uh a fantastic opportunity
this is to really change, changethe game for how kids and
families are supported.
You know, I think I'll say atthe end of the day, what I am
(19:45):
hopeful this work will create isa primary prevention system that
means everyone in America, nomatter your race, your
background, your zip code, hasthe support.
They need to live a fulfillinglife, be self-sufficient, and
have a sense of belonging sothat everybody can thrive.
To do that, I think it means wegot to focus more on opening
(20:07):
doors of opportunity than onpreventing problems.
And, you know, I love this quoteby Frederick Douglass.
It's easier to build strongchildren than to fix broken men.
And I think that's really whatthis work is about.
You know, sort of from atechnical perspective, I think
what this work is doing iscreating new conversations about
(20:30):
how decisions are made, howservices are delivered, and how
resources are allocated.
And when we do that, I think it,you know, those are the levers
we have to help not just publicagencies, but sort of community
agencies as well, all kinds ofstakeholders make better
(20:51):
decisions.
Um, you know, we we come to thiswork knowing that, you know,
nearly 40% of all children andhalf of black children in this
country come into contact withthe child protective system
before the age of 18.
I think those data are shockingto most people in the general
public.
They imagine this is like asmall isolated set of children
(21:14):
that this work applies to.
We are talking about millionsand millions of children in this
country.
And so to change the way oursystems support families that
might be struggling is no smallissue.
It is really fundamental to thesuccess of this country.
And so I'm hopeful that it'llhelp us address racial and
(21:37):
cultural disparities in the wayfamilies are brought into
contact with the system andtransition through the system.
I hope it will lead us topartner with communities and
those with lived experience todevelop better solutions and to
overall just sort of prioritizeprevention, health, and
well-being versus problems.
(21:59):
I was talking to one of mycolleagues this week and I said,
you know, we don't raise ourchildren thinking, how am I
going to prevent this problem?
We raise our children with theidea of what doors of
opportunity can I open for them?
How can I help them live theirbest lives?
And that's what we want for allchildren, is what we invest in
(22:19):
and imagine for our ownchildren.
And so I think Thriving FamilySafer Children is really the
best platform we have to sort ofmake that vision a reality.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
Well, and actually, you know, the science is so
strong, the data are so clearthat my children will actually
do better, and all of ourchildren are doing better,
right?
And so I love this.
You're you're kind ofarticulating something that um I
know is maybe beyond what wewere actually going to talk
about today, but we're gonnatalk about it now because you
(22:49):
said it a couple of times and Ihear it a lot.
It's like the preventing a badthing, right, versus what are
the good things that we want.
And so to me, that means there'skind of a disconnect between the
word prevention and actually thework of prevention.
Because the work of preventionis to assure the conditions and
(23:10):
opportunity, doors ofopportunity, the successes,
social justice, you know,equitable policies, access to
all the good stuff for everyone.
That is true prevention, right?
But where we get lost is we dothe same reactive things,
treatment stuff or removalstuff, and then we tap on the
(23:32):
word prevention.
So now prevention has this likething, right?
Like, oh, well, if you'repreventing child abuse, for
example, that means that youthink families are going to harm
their children.
And I and I have to say, this isa critical thing that we need to
dispel.
We need to be very vocal andexplicit as leaders.
(23:52):
I know that you feel like this,like me, to say no, families
love their children.
We are all trying to do the verybest we can do.
And none of us does this job ofparenting alone.
We all rely on each other and weall need supports.
So there's nothing.
It's a village, literally.
(24:13):
For all of us, it doesn't matterthe degree you have, the amount
of money you have, the you know,the family system and
connectivity you have.
None of us does this alone.
And so I want to be, I want, Ithink the next generation of
this work and through thistheory of change and our North
Star that really aligns so wellwith your vision at Annie, you
know, this idea of making surefamilies have what they need
(24:36):
when they need it, delivered intheir own communities with love
and respect and trust withoutstigma before they're in crisis.
This is how children andfamilies will be happy and will
thrive and will be hopeful forthe future, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
Right, right.
And I think, you know, helpingeveryone see the role they have
in this work.
You know, so many of thefamilies that come in contact
with the child welfare systemare just families struggling,
trying to navigate thecomplexities of modern life.
And I think many decisionmakers, particularly business
(25:12):
decision makers, don'tappreciate how what might seem
like a smart business decisioncreates stress and challenge for
families.
You know, things as simple asalternating work schedules.
If I don't know how many hoursI'm working next week or next
month, look at the financialchallenge that prevents for me.
(25:35):
Am I going to be able to pay mybills?
Am I going to be able to havethe right child care situation
in place?
All those things, I don't thinkpeople realize how a very simple
decision about how many hourssomeone works in a week impacts
their livelihood and stresslevels.
(25:55):
I mean, it's it, you know,access to transportation, just
simple things that if weunderstood how much they cause
compounding problems forfamilies that they are then
frustrated with and tryingtrying to navigate, I think it
would help us all make morecompassionate and thoughtful
(26:16):
decisions, whether you're abusiness leader or a policy
maker, you know, you or yourchild having access to health
care is critically important.
If you as a parent arestruggling and can't get access
to mental health servicesbecause you don't have health
insurance, again, this putsfamilies in a really vulnerable
(26:37):
place.
That is what we're trying toprevent upstream.
So everything from, you know,just making sure they have
health care, behavioral healthcare, safe, affordable housing,
regular work schedules that letthem know what they can plan
around.
All of these things contributeto either the positive
experiences families can have orthe extraordinarily stressful
(27:00):
circumstances that can lead topoor outcomes for their
children.
SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Oh, I just love how you operationalized all of the
context, all of the differentpieces that go into keeping a
family strong, right?
To helping families work.
They need child care.
You know, we just did, as youknow, a congressional briefing
in March on the Hill on primaryprevention of child abuse and
neglect, and had partners fromAndy E and lots of partners in
(27:26):
the audience as well.
And someone talked about shiftwork and talked about when
you're on the late night shiftand there's no child care center
open at that time for yourchildren to, you know, have a
safe place, then you can't havethat job, but you need that job,
right?
And how you know 24-hourchildcare and high quality
affordable childcare is alsogoing to make businesses more
(27:47):
money, right?
So it's not only that it keepsto the the health and well-being
of the family, but it can itcontributes to a more prosperous
economy, right?
And so how there's there's whenyou really take a true public
health approach to this, it'swe're all connected, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
And you can show up.
I mean, parents can show up inas full and productive employees
if you're worried about childcare and who's going to get your
child, or are they in a safeplace?
You can't show up as your bringyour best self to the work.
You cannot.
Um, so you know, things likepaid leave, making sure that
(28:25):
people can take the time theyneed to to take care of their
children.
You're a parent, I'm a parent.
I have had a sick child.
I know how stressful that is.
I have, you know, been worriedabout making it to daycare to
pick up.
I'm calling my friend, pick asmall town, you know, and I have
a car, and it was stressful ifyou are reliant on public
(28:48):
transportation, you know, thatmight not be running on time.
Just all these things are umcompounding stress for families
that we can we can just do amuch better job of um um, I I
love the word ecosystem, like wecan create a healthy ecosystem
for folks to grow up in.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
That's right.
Oh, I love that.
And I think it's just so true tothe science, too.
We know what works, we just needto bring more of those
solutions, right, to bear forfamilies.
So I guess maybe one of the lastquestions is we we know that
true transformation for familiesrequires that we elevate the
leadership of parents andcaregivers and really center
(29:28):
families as decision makers,which really supports our Cat
Month campaign, building hopefulfutures together.
And we've really seen a lot ofprogress and bright spots where
this is happening, and reallyled by in large part by Annie E,
especially among youth.
But it's not really embeddedinto our field as a standard of
standard of practice, right?
(29:48):
I mean, this idea of co designand co creating solutions and
lived expertise, it's pretty newstill.
We all understand that it'scritical, but figuring out the
best models for doing that in anauthentic.
Authentic way, early and often,not after you have your plan.
And then you just like invitesome parents or young people.
That's not cool.
That's not gonna work, right?
(30:09):
So, how do we continue to ensurethat youth and families are in
positions to co-design andprovide leadership in developing
and creating real solutions?
Um, and how do we get to thosethat are not touched by the
child welfare system, right?
I think that is also somethingthat I'm seeing a lot as we have
a lot of people with livedexpertise of in these deep end
(30:30):
systems, which is critical.
Um, but what about families thathave stayed out, maybe because
they've had paid child care andyou know all the supports that
we want them to do?
How do we meaningfully engagewith people across those
different types of expertise todesign our primary prevention
ecosystem?
SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
Sure.
I think this is one of the mostimportant elements of Thriving
Family Safer Children, and onethat I think is sort of the
secret sauce that's going togive us two the right answers.
We believe firmly that authenticengagement is crucial, whether
you're working on housing orchild welfare or health.
Youth and families can tell youwhat the barriers are they're
(31:12):
facing and can give you reallygood ideas about how to address
them.
And so we think co-designdoesn't just help us do better
work, it also keeps us fromperpetuating negative
experiences or harm, and youknow, other unintended
consequences for people whohaven't actually experienced
this work.
(31:32):
So we we are thrilled at theways that these partnerships are
helping us embed more livedexperience and perspective into
the work.
I think it's really going to begreat.
You know, I I think the factthat we've got families with
lived experience in childwelfare, child welfare is
extraordinary, but I am alwaysstruck by the fact that, you
(31:52):
know, if if 40% of families comein contact with the child
welfare system every day, thereare millions of families who are
just sort of one phone call awayfrom being you know being
connected to these systems.
And, you know, we know fromother work we do around
education and workforce orhealth that there are families
who stand ready to engage, youknow, to help you understand
(32:17):
what they need, mostly aroundjust their basic needs, helping
them manage their basic needs.
I'll give you an example of aneffort that we've been engaged
in for about the last eightyears that's doing just this,
sort of engaging families andcommunities in conversations
about what they need.
It's called evidence to success.
And it's really built aroundeducation in school.
(32:39):
You know, what are the barriersto children thriving
academically?
So we created something calledthe Youth Experience Survey.
So we partner with the schoolsystem.
So the young people are thefirst ones who can tell us what
they need and what they'restruggling with.
And many are saying they arestruggling with depression and
anxiety, or they say they aredealing with food insecurity.
(33:03):
I'm hungry, I can't payattention in school.
It often reveals challenges thatkids are dealing with that the
school leaders or even theirparents might not always be
aware of.
With that data, we bring it toparents, to school
administrators, and say, okay,so this is what kids say they
are dealing with.
What are we going to do aboutit?
(33:24):
And it's in that partnershipbetween the parents, community,
and school leaders that theyfigure out, okay, what are the
evidence-based practices orprograms that we need to bring
to the school that will helpthese young people overcome
these challenges?
And through this process, we'veseen many institute school-based
(33:45):
mental health programs thatdidn't exist before.
Levels of depression havedropped by 70 or 80% in these
schools.
And so now young people can showup at school and they're able to
succeed academically.
I say all that to say I thinkwhat's really helpful in this
work is what's the data tell us?
Engage families and young peoplein that conversation.
(34:10):
What are the strategies andsolutions from your life that
you that you've seen work andthen partnering with
policymakers and community-basedorganizations so they can bring
those things to life.
Every time we try to dosomething without the
involvement of young people andfamilies, we get it wrong.
I have to admit that we get itwrong.
(34:31):
And um, every time we bring themin, we get smarter, we learn,
you know, a different way oflooking at things or a different
way of addressing the problems.
And so we see in these 22communities where we're working,
you know, where we're able tohelp them set up infrastructure
strategies to connect withfamilies, um, both with lived
lived experience and childwelfare and those not, the work
(34:54):
is just going to be going to bebetter.
It's going to be richer.
So I think this is a realimportant part of what we're
doing here.
SPEAKER_01 (35:00):
Such a critical part.
And I have to say, there's alsojust the part of, you know,
being a young person today isdifferent than when we were
young, right?
And we're not that old.
I'm not that old.
You're not that old.
I'm not claiming being that oldeither.
Yeah, no, we're we're young too,but you know, mental health was
still seen as such a stigma,right?
(35:21):
And now young people, they wantto talk to, you know, someone.
They want to have access tomental health support.
Not only do they need it,obviously the times right now
and and the data reveal that ouryoung people are struggling, but
it's like they give me hope forwhat's possible, right?
This idea that like that sceneis a real asset, a real
(35:43):
strength.
I was doing some like collegevisits with my daughter.
She's only 15, but she's veryprecocious.
She has lived before.
And we, you know, every time wetravel, we we go somewhere.
But some of the places thatwe've been going when the
students, the current collegestudents are giving the tour and
they're excited, they're like,and guess what?
We can see a therapist once aweek.
(36:05):
And and then everyone's like, ohwow, that's so cool.
You know, even just thisreframe, I think if we did not,
we were not connected to youngpeople, we would think in my
time it was still sostigmatized, right?
Because no one talked aboutbeing in therapy.
Now that it's seen as such astrength and such like a, you
know, it's an investment in yourwell-being.
(36:28):
It's prevention.
It is prevention, that is forsure.
And so I just think young peoplegive me a lot of hope too, about
about what's possible, right?
About the idea that that youdon't always do what you've
always done, right?
Like my angel who always tellsus when you know better, you do
better.
And you know, we can only dobetter in partnership and
(36:50):
broadening what we mean bypartnership.
We mean young people andfamilies and communities.
SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
And and young people are so empathetic.
I am always struck by how nomatter what they've been
through, their deepest goal isto prevent someone else from
having to experience that.
I that is always the mostbeautiful thing that comes out
of talking with young people.
I think folks don't reallyappreciate how how your sort of
empathy center turns on inadolescence.
(37:18):
And every young person I've met,they are willing to share very
hard truths about their livesand about their journey in hopes
that it will keep just one otheryoung person from having the
same challenge.
And I think that's such a giftof them to reveal themselves, to
(37:38):
advocate so that they can helpother young people have
positive, productive lives.
SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
I love that.
It's a beautiful way of bringingus to a close.
You know, at Prevent Child AbuseAmerica, we always talk about
how childhood lasts a lifetimeand how you're really we want
the best stuff happening earlyand often, right, to transform
lives.
So I just really appreciate thisopportunity to talk with you,
Lisa.
(38:06):
The last question I have is justbecause of our mutual love for
Atlanta.
You know, I know that uh yougrew up there, I lived there for
several years, and I'm justwondering what are your some of
your favorite things to do inAtlanta?
In particular, what are yourfavorite places to eat?
Because I'm all about food.
And I Atlanta has some reallygood food.
SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
So yeah, so it's changed a lot.
I haven't lived in Atlanta for12 years now, and so every time
I go home, I'm always thrilledto try a new place.
Well, I have always lovedMidtown in Atlanta.
It's where people are the parkis, it's the arts and culture
heart of the city.
So I just love Midtown, whetherit's the botanical gardens or
(38:45):
the high museum.
I always find myself in Midtownwhen I am home.
And there is a relatively newrestaurant there called Poor
Calvin's, which is um sort of amix of Asian and Southern.
You'd think it doesn't gotogether, but it does.
They've got creative cocktails.
So that's maybe the most recentplace I've tried that I really
(39:08):
love.
SPEAKER_01 (39:08):
Oh, I love that.
I love Midtown too.
I was just in Atlanta recentlyand stayed in Midtown, and some
of my favorite restaurants arein Midtown.
My favorite these days is Cooksand Soldiers.
It's like Spanish tapas, andthey just uh it's like in the
West Side, which is oh, yeah,the new West Side.
Yeah, exactly.
The new West Side.
So well, I'm going back in May.
So I'll oh, so you gotta try it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
I will, and thank you so much, Melissa.
You are such a light in thiswork.
Your passion and yourintelligence and your commitment
to this work is just aninspiration to all of us.
You are a wonderful partner toso many in the field and
especially to the Annie E.
Casey Foundation.
(39:52):
I was joking that Melissa's umpresented it to our board
probably more times than mostpeople, but it's because you are
such a resource and such anexpert in the field.
We want to expose them to thebest.
So thank you for the time youhave spent with us, um, both in
board meetings and numerous uhother conversations across the
(40:14):
country.
We are thrilled to be inpartnership with you and um
Prevent Child Abuse America andall of the partners in Thriving
Family Safe for Children.
I really do think this is um anextraordinarily important
opportunity moment for thefield, and I'm hopeful that we
can look back and say thispartnership really did create a
(40:35):
different uh structure, set ofsystems and opportunities for
families.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:40):
Lisa, likewise, I mean, all of that, same, same,
same.
And really your tremendousleadership.
You are a light and people, um,your leadership shines through.
And I know that we will lookback and say that the
partnership and the way that weare co-creating a new vision for
children and families in thiscountry.
(41:01):
Um, so much of it is because ofuh your leadership and all of
the wonderful leaders at AnnieE.
Casey, the way that you lift upagain, young people,
adolescents, and just the powerof not always doing things the
same way, right?
And when and again, being goodpartners.
I just think together we reallycan prevent some of the
(41:23):
nation's, you know, leadingcauses of death and illness and
disparity.
We can really um have, we canrealize in our lifetimes the
vision of hope and well-beingand thriving and love.
So thank you, Lisa, so much.
Um, look forward to many otheropportunities to connecting
soon.
(41:43):
Thanks for tuning in to thisexclusive episode.
The 2024 Cat Month series can bestreamed on our Cat Month page,
preventchildabuse.org backslashCat Month 2024, and wherever you
listen to your podcasts.
You can find more information atpreventchildause.org and on our
social media channels.
(42:04):
Remember, prevention ispossible, and together we can
prevent child abuse, America,because childhood lasts a
lifetime.
Hi, everyone.
This is Dr.
Melissa Merritt, President andCEO of Prevent Child Abuse
America.
I'm so thrilled today to be withLisa Hamilton.
Lisa is the president and CEO ofthe Annie E.
Casey Foundation and just acritical partner in this work.
Before becoming president, Lisaserved as the foundation's
executive vice president andchief program officer and vice
(00:35):
president of external affairs,leading Casey's work to provide
data, analysis, research, andpolicy solutions to help all
children realize their fullpotential.
In this role, she oversaw thefoundation's annual Kids Count
data book that I know we allrely on, and was a key architect
of the Race for Results series,which compares how children
(00:57):
across racial and ethnic groupsare faring at the state and
national levels on keyeducation, health, and economic
milestones.
Lisa has also spearheadedseveral new initiatives,
including the Thrive by 25effort, which I'm really excited
to hear more about, because itaims to improve outcomes for
adolescents ages 14 to 24 toensure that they successfully
(01:20):
transition to adulthood.
Lisa, there's so much more I cansay, and also just to say that I
just find you to be such a kindand available and humble leader.
And I'm just so excited to havethis conversation with you
today.
Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Thank you, Melissa.
I'm thrilled to be here, PreventChild Abuse America.
And you in particular have beenjust amazing partners with the
foundation.
So I'm happy to talk to you andto your listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
Yay, excellent.
So obviously, we're startingsomething new in Child Abuse
Prevention Month, April, withthis podcast series.
And, you know, our April themethis year is building a hopeful
future together.
And I think it will resonatewith you, but I would like to
know how this resonates with youand why you think it's important
(02:08):
that we promote Child AbusePrevention Month in this
country.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Well, I think that is a fabulous theme.
And as I read it, um, two wordsin particular resonated with me:
hopeful and together.
Um, I think the word hopefulbecause we know what it takes to
prevent child abuse and thethings kids need to thrive.
Um, it's not a mystery or anunsolvable puzzle.
(02:33):
This work is doable and thatcertainly gives me lots of hope.
Um, and then the word together.
Um, I'm sure we'll talk aboutpartnership a lot in this
conversation, but I like theword together because um we know
that to do this work requires acollective effort, not no single
organization can do it alone.
Um, and so I am thrilled thatyou've really highlighted um the
(02:56):
role of partnership in thiswork.
Um and then your question aboutwhy I think it's important that
we continue to um have ChildAbuse Prevention Month.
Um, I think it's because this issuch an important opportunity to
educate people about what ittakes to realize the vision of
(03:17):
preventing child abuse.
You know, I think lots of peopleknow that the child welfare
system is the public agencythat's charged with responding
to child abuse in this country,um, and that children whose
families are deemed unable tocare for them into the foster
care system.
Um, but I think there are lotsof assumptions in this country
among the general public aboutwhat child abuse is, you know,
(03:41):
believing that the child welfaresystem is responding primarily
to concerns about physical orsexual abuse.
But as you and I both know, moreoften than not, um uh child
welfare agencies are called inum to address issues of neglect,
which um, you know, if 60% ormore of um child welfare
(04:04):
investigations are related toneglect, we really need to
understand what's going onthere.
And um, you know, we we knowneglect is defined differently
across states, but it reallytypically applies to a lack of
basic needs, everything fromhousing to child care to
clothing, all of these thingsthat um we know low-income
(04:26):
families are struggling with.
And so um to sort of bring itback, I'm just excited that we
have this month every yearbecause it's an opportunity to
educate people on what this workis really about.
And it's really um quite oftenabout making sure families have
what they need to meet theirbasic needs and be
self-sufficient so that they andtheir children can thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
Oh, I love talking to partners like you, where
literally I'm like, I could haveanswered that question in the
exact same way.
Because it's the same two wordsthat resonate with me too,
hopeful, right?
This this idea that there'ssomething brighter on the other
side, right?
That's like just a basic humanum condition.
(05:10):
Um, and then together the factthat prevention can only happen
in partnership, and that's amongnational partners like us, but
it's among, you know, betweenfamilies and people with lived
expertise, and every sector hasa role to play in this work, not
just the child welfare system,right?
And I think that we live in acountry that's very reactionary,
(05:30):
right?
How we solve problems is we waitfor families to be in crisis to
get the services and supportsthat had they been available on
the front end, it would havekept them out of ever being
known to our downstream systems,as you as you said.
So I just think we're soaligned, and and I think that
this same kind of spirit cameout in our um adaptive strategic
(05:54):
planning process that you knowwe've been engaged in for the
past two years, and we're nowkind of implementing this theory
of change for primary preventionin the US, because it really
became clear to us that it wasbroader than PCA America's you
know, adaptive strategy.
You know, if once we listen tothousands of parents and
partners and philanthropy andpoliticians, right?
(06:17):
Everybody, we realize we're alltrying to get to a collective
North Star.
And we believe that's one ofthat all children and families
are living happy and purposefullives with hope for the future,
you know?
And uh we think that thatrequires an aligned and
comprehensive primary preventionecosystem that currently doesn't
(06:40):
exist in this country.
Tell me about your perspectiveon primary prevention and how
partnerships like ours andothers play a critical role.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
Sure.
Um, well, congratulations onthis um uh work that you've been
doing and the journey you're onto help us um in this country
build a primary preventionecosystem.
It's among the most importantthings we can do in this country
to ensure our children have abright future.
That's the mission of the AnnieCasey Foundation.
And so um, this work isfundamentally aligned with what
(07:13):
we believe children need.
So, you know, I think to start,I say that um this primary
prevention ecosystem reallychallenges historical narratives
that child abuse and neglectresult just from the deficits of
individual parents andcaregivers who might be raising
a child.
You talked about the Kids Countdata book.
(07:34):
You know, it's such an importantresource for us and for others
in the field because it's tryingto call attention to sort of the
context that children aregrowing up in.
And so um we're trying to callattention to systemic inequities
we know that exist aroundeconomic opportunity, affordable
housing, health care, um,education, incarceration, all of
(07:56):
these things are societalconditions that make it ever
more difficult for families toraise healthy, happy, um,
thriving children.
Um, and so, you know, because weknow there's no way we can sort
of get to the goals we wantthrough just programs and these
fragmented services andsupports, um, we know we've got
(08:18):
to shift this country to a focuson prevention.
We can't just keep spendingendless amounts of money trying
to intervene after a crisishappens, as you said, um, and
really struggling to getfamilies back on track.
So we we love this focus onprimary prevention because it
calls all of us to thinkproactively and not reactively.
(08:41):
And we know that our publicsystems aren't set up for
prevention, they are set up forintervention and reaction.
Um, you know, a statistic I'msure you know is that, you know,
the$35 billion that federal,state, and local governments
spend on child welfare, only 15%of it goes toward prevention.
(09:02):
Um, you know, so most of themoney is spent after a child and
a family experience a childabuse investigation or crisis.
And this absolutely has tochange if we want a better
outlook.
Um, research tells us that forevery dollar that's invested in
public benefits programs, statessave three times that amount in
(09:23):
maltreatment costs.
Um we've just got to move in adifferent direction and go
upstream.
It's better for children, itcosts uh less, um, and is really
the vision I think we all haveof what it means to have a
brighter future for kids.
Um, you asked about partnership.
I'll I'll reiterate, you know,in this context that partnership
(09:45):
is critical to moving in thatdirection.
What families need crosses umall kinds of sectors and
different issues from you knowbusiness to nonprofits to what
um public agencies provide.
Um, and so we know that thesesolutions are gonna need to look
different in every community.
They've got a different set ofnonprofits, different set of
(10:07):
agencies that are supportingfamilies.
Um, and so I'm I'm reallyexcited about the ways that
we're starting to demonstratewhat a tailored set of solutions
can look like in places.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Yeah, I love everything you said there,
especially you know, the focuson what kind of what makes this
work hard is that it's not a onesize fits all or that it's going
to look the same everywhere,right?
Context matters, conditionsmatter, historical trauma,
right?
Who the stakeholders, who thechampions in the community
varies.
(10:41):
Um and but but that doesn't meanthat we couldn't try it.
It doesn't mean that we couldn'tsay, look at all of our
evidence, look at all of oursolutions, look at that$35
billion that's going toward deepend, um, and only 15%.
And what if we put 30%?
What if we put that?
What if we would have?
(11:02):
Yeah, it's amazing, right?
And so I think, you know, thisis where I know I know that
Annie Casey um shares this withPCA America and with many of our
national partners, but obviouslywe need a prevention continuum,
right?
There are going to be familiesthat need intervention, right?
(11:22):
Or um there are going to betimes that we need secondary and
tertiary prevention activities.
But if we really move to be moreupstream, we can curb, you know,
or stem the flow of children andfamilies that touch our more
deep end, more costly, morereactive system.
So have what it takes.
We do.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
And I'll I'll even note, you know, we're very
excited about the potential ofthe Family First Act.
I mean, here is a new federalfinancing flow that can help
child welfare agencies andcommunities, doesn't just need
to be child welfare agencies,and communities find the
resources to go upstream.
So I'll note there is policyaction that is also providing a
(12:05):
tailwind to help us move in thisdirection.
And we're really excited aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:09):
Yeah, and I would say along with Family First,
which I think yes, is is animportant new step in the right
direction.
We also have, you know,community-based child abuse uh,
you know, uh preventionactivities and efforts that we
need more funding toward that,right?
Before families are in crisis.
Um I'm wondering if now might bea good time to talk about Thrive
(12:30):
by 25, because what I've beenlearning about it, I've been
just fascinated.
I see it super aligned with thisidea of a theory of change and a
primary prevention ecosystem,but really interested in you
giving our listeners a littleglimpse into what that
initiative is.
And do you think it aligns withthis creation of a primary
prevention ecosystem?
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
Well, I'll I'll answer the last question first
and say 100% it aligns.
Um, this work is really abouttrying to make sure that
adolescents, young people whoare between the ages of 14 and
24, make a positive transitionto adulthood.
As I became president of thefoundation, I looked across all
the work that we did andactually realized that
(13:14):
adolescence was the through linein many of our efforts from
child welfare focused on keepingolder youth out of congregate
care to juvenile justice effortsthat primarily focused on teens
and young adults to ourworkforce efforts that were
trying to get young people intopostsecondary or into work when
they finished high school.
(13:34):
And in the sort of child servingfield, there's been lots of
attention on younger children inpreschool, very little attention
on adolescents.
And I thought with all this newBrian Science coming out about
adolescents, how wonderful wouldit be for us as an organization
to really put a stake in theground around older young people
(13:57):
to defend childhood in itsfullness and help us make better
decisions as a society to ensureyoung people thrive.
And so that's what this work isabout, just making sure across
all of our various investmentsthat young people have family
connections, relationships,communities, and educational and
employment opportunities thatwill help them thrive.
(14:20):
It is important prevention workbecause if we don't do this, if
we don't make sure that theygraduate from high school and
get to college of work, we don'tmake sure that they avoid
criminal justice involvement, ifwe don't make sure they've got
permanent family to guide themforward, we're going to end up
in a place of intervention, oftrying to help uh young people
(14:42):
or adults get their lives backon track.
And so we see this as absolutelyimportant prevention work.
And the other thing I'll say isthat these young adults are the
parents or future parents ofyoung children.
And all the things that we'vebeen talking about are about how
we make sure that children havewhat they need to thrive.
(15:03):
And so I see it both as aninvestment in prevention for the
lives of these young people, butalso for the families that they
will have in the future.
Um, and so I think this is justcompletely aligned with your
theory of change and a way ofreally investing upstream in an
intergenerational way to makesure that families thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
And it's exciting to hear youpoint to those two important
prevention efforts, right?
It's it's preventing later badoutcomes for these youth, but
also it's true primaryprevention of the next
generation of kids that they'regoing to raise, right?
To to break these cycles ofviolence and trauma and inequity
(15:49):
over time.
So, really, in that way, it's sotrue to all of the brain
science, all of the science thatshows that we need to take
multi-generational or dualgeneration approaches to
prevention.
And I have to say that it's inlarge part because of our
partnership with Annie E.
Casey that we at PCA America hadtaken a look at our networks,
(16:11):
like, you know, work withadolescents, right?
Because it is what you say sotrue that so much of our field
on primary prevention, we maythink of birth to three or birth
to five.
But the truth is it's criticalthat we that we support positive
childhood experiences throughoutdevelopment.
And the data are clear that thatmakes changes, right?
(16:31):
On the positive for all of ourhealth, well-being, and economic
prosperity goals.
Um, so I really have to say thatit was really um in partnership
with you all and Sandra'sportfolio, Sandra Gasca Gonzalez
and her team and such to help usstart thinking uh in a critical
way about how we can say, yes,we want to help young kids and
(16:55):
families, but we don't stopwanting to focus on the
adolescents, right?
They're teaching.
SPEAKER_00 (17:02):
And they are often in child welfare systems and
enter many teens enter the childwelfare system as teens for very
different reasons, often forparent-child conflict.
And we view, you know, workwe're doing to help reduce those
conflicts as an investment inprevention as well.
If if teens and parents can havemore productive relationships,
(17:25):
we can again make sure feweryoung people are entering the
child welfare system.
So thank you for uh appreciatingand investing in the promise of
adolescence, is something I'mpassionate about and hope that
more people join us in payingattention to to older older
youth.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely critical, critical
part of the work.
Okay, so let's talk aboutsomething that we are both also
passionate about, and that'sthis Thriving Family Safer
Children initiative.
You know, it's such a it againhighlights the the critical
importance of collaboration andpartnership and across, you
(18:04):
know, multiple nationalpartners, the CEC, the
children's bureaus, uh, LibedExpert Leaders, Casey Family
Programs, and NEE, together withPCA America, and 22 sites across
the country coming together toreally figure out how we can
help families thrive whilekeeping our kids safe.
You know, I think this early inThriving Families, as we started
(18:27):
visioning this, it was like thisidea that, oh my gosh, we got to
keep kids safe.
And I think it's like, yeah, butkids are safer with their
families than from theirfamilies when their families
have what they need and aresupported in their own
communities with love and trustand without stigma, and again,
before they're in crisis.
That's really how Ioperationalize primary
(18:48):
prevention.
But so what do you, Lisa,envision for Thriving Families
work going forward?
And where do you see thealignment again with thriving
families with this primaryprevention ecosystem that we're
all trying to create?
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
I could not be more thrilled about this effort.
You know, it is rare that we getto work with 22 jurisdictions at
one time.
Many people may not know the,you know, the Casey Foundation
consults with various uhagencies to help them improve
their practices.
We do that, you know, in one orthree agencies at a time.
(19:23):
To be able to uh engage with 22at one time and with this
extraordinary set of partners isreally special.
And I hope people appreciatewhat uh a fantastic opportunity
this is to really change, changethe game for how kids and
families are supported.
You know, I think I'll say atthe end of the day, what I am
(19:45):
hopeful this work will create isa primary prevention system that
means everyone in America, nomatter your race, your
background, your zip code, hasthe support.
They need to live a fulfillinglife, be self-sufficient, and
have a sense of belonging sothat everybody can thrive.
To do that, I think it means wegot to focus more on opening
(20:07):
doors of opportunity than onpreventing problems.
And, you know, I love this quoteby Frederick Douglass.
It's easier to build strongchildren than to fix broken men.
And I think that's really whatthis work is about.
You know, sort of from atechnical perspective, I think
what this work is doing iscreating new conversations about
(20:30):
how decisions are made, howservices are delivered, and how
resources are allocated.
And when we do that, I think it,you know, those are the levers
we have to help not just publicagencies, but sort of community
agencies as well, all kinds ofstakeholders make better
(20:51):
decisions.
Um, you know, we we come to thiswork knowing that, you know,
nearly 40% of all children andhalf of black children in this
country come into contact withthe child protective system
before the age of 18.
I think those data are shockingto most people in the general
public.
They imagine this is like asmall isolated set of children
(21:14):
that this work applies to.
We are talking about millionsand millions of children in this
country.
And so to change the way oursystems support families that
might be struggling is no smallissue.
It is really fundamental to thesuccess of this country.
And so I'm hopeful that it'llhelp us address racial and
(21:37):
cultural disparities in the wayfamilies are brought into
contact with the system andtransition through the system.
I hope it will lead us topartner with communities and
those with lived experience todevelop better solutions and to
overall just sort of prioritizeprevention, health, and
well-being versus problems.
(21:59):
I was talking to one of mycolleagues this week and I said,
you know, we don't raise ourchildren thinking, how am I
going to prevent this problem?
We raise our children with theidea of what doors of
opportunity can I open for them?
How can I help them live theirbest lives?
And that's what we want for allchildren, is what we invest in
(22:19):
and imagine for our ownchildren.
And so I think Thriving FamilySafer Children is really the
best platform we have to sort ofmake that vision a reality.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
Well, and actually, you know, the science is so
strong, the data are so clearthat my children will actually
do better, and all of ourchildren are doing better,
right?
And so I love this.
You're you're kind ofarticulating something that um I
know is maybe beyond what wewere actually going to talk
about today, but we're gonnatalk about it now because you
(22:49):
said it a couple of times and Ihear it a lot.
It's like the preventing a badthing, right, versus what are
the good things that we want.
And so to me, that means there'skind of a disconnect between the
word prevention and actually thework of prevention.
Because the work of preventionis to assure the conditions and
(23:10):
opportunity, doors ofopportunity, the successes,
social justice, you know,equitable policies, access to
all the good stuff for everyone.
That is true prevention, right?
But where we get lost is we dothe same reactive things,
treatment stuff or removalstuff, and then we tap on the
(23:32):
word prevention.
So now prevention has this likething, right?
Like, oh, well, if you'repreventing child abuse, for
example, that means that youthink families are going to harm
their children.
And I and I have to say, this isa critical thing that we need to
dispel.
We need to be very vocal andexplicit as leaders.
(23:52):
I know that you feel like this,like me, to say no, families
love their children.
We are all trying to do the verybest we can do.
And none of us does this job ofparenting alone.
We all rely on each other and weall need supports.
So there's nothing.
It's a village, literally.
(24:13):
For all of us, it doesn't matterthe degree you have, the amount
of money you have, the you know,the family system and
connectivity you have.
None of us does this alone.
And so I want to be, I want, Ithink the next generation of
this work and through thistheory of change and our North
Star that really aligns so wellwith your vision at Annie, you
know, this idea of making surefamilies have what they need
(24:36):
when they need it, delivered intheir own communities with love
and respect and trust withoutstigma before they're in crisis.
This is how children andfamilies will be happy and will
thrive and will be hopeful forthe future, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
Right, right.
And I think, you know, helpingeveryone see the role they have
in this work.
You know, so many of thefamilies that come in contact
with the child welfare systemare just families struggling,
trying to navigate thecomplexities of modern life.
And I think many decisionmakers, particularly business
(25:12):
decision makers, don'tappreciate how what might seem
like a smart business decisioncreates stress and challenge for
families.
You know, things as simple asalternating work schedules.
If I don't know how many hoursI'm working next week or next
month, look at the financialchallenge that prevents for me.
(25:35):
Am I going to be able to pay mybills?
Am I going to be able to havethe right child care situation
in place?
All those things, I don't thinkpeople realize how a very simple
decision about how many hourssomeone works in a week impacts
their livelihood and stresslevels.
(25:55):
I mean, it's it, you know,access to transportation, just
simple things that if weunderstood how much they cause
compounding problems forfamilies that they are then
frustrated with and tryingtrying to navigate, I think it
would help us all make morecompassionate and thoughtful
(26:16):
decisions, whether you're abusiness leader or a policy
maker, you know, you or yourchild having access to health
care is critically important.
If you as a parent arestruggling and can't get access
to mental health servicesbecause you don't have health
insurance, again, this putsfamilies in a really vulnerable
(26:37):
place.
That is what we're trying toprevent upstream.
So everything from, you know,just making sure they have
health care, behavioral healthcare, safe, affordable housing,
regular work schedules that letthem know what they can plan
around.
All of these things contributeto either the positive
experiences families can have orthe extraordinarily stressful
(27:00):
circumstances that can lead topoor outcomes for their
children.
SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Oh, I just love how you operationalized all of the
context, all of the differentpieces that go into keeping a
family strong, right?
To helping families work.
They need child care.
You know, we just did, as youknow, a congressional briefing
in March on the Hill on primaryprevention of child abuse and
neglect, and had partners fromAndy E and lots of partners in
(27:26):
the audience as well.
And someone talked about shiftwork and talked about when
you're on the late night shiftand there's no child care center
open at that time for yourchildren to, you know, have a
safe place, then you can't havethat job, but you need that job,
right?
And how you know 24-hourchildcare and high quality
affordable childcare is alsogoing to make businesses more
(27:47):
money, right?
So it's not only that it keepsto the the health and well-being
of the family, but it can itcontributes to a more prosperous
economy, right?
And so how there's there's whenyou really take a true public
health approach to this, it'swe're all connected, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
And you can show up.
I mean, parents can show up inas full and productive employees
if you're worried about childcare and who's going to get your
child, or are they in a safeplace?
You can't show up as your bringyour best self to the work.
You cannot.
Um, so you know, things likepaid leave, making sure that
(28:25):
people can take the time theyneed to to take care of their
children.
You're a parent, I'm a parent.
I have had a sick child.
I know how stressful that is.
I have, you know, been worriedabout making it to daycare to
pick up.
I'm calling my friend, pick asmall town, you know, and I have
a car, and it was stressful ifyou are reliant on public
(28:48):
transportation, you know, thatmight not be running on time.
Just all these things are umcompounding stress for families
that we can we can just do amuch better job of um um, I I
love the word ecosystem, like wecan create a healthy ecosystem
for folks to grow up in.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
That's right.
Oh, I love that.
And I think it's just so true tothe science, too.
We know what works, we just needto bring more of those
solutions, right, to bear forfamilies.
So I guess maybe one of the lastquestions is we we know that
true transformation for familiesrequires that we elevate the
leadership of parents andcaregivers and really center
(29:28):
families as decision makers,which really supports our Cat
Month campaign, building hopefulfutures together.
And we've really seen a lot ofprogress and bright spots where
this is happening, and reallyled by in large part by Annie E,
especially among youth.
But it's not really embeddedinto our field as a standard of
standard of practice, right?
(29:48):
I mean, this idea of co designand co creating solutions and
lived expertise, it's pretty newstill.
We all understand that it'scritical, but figuring out the
best models for doing that in anauthentic.
Authentic way, early and often,not after you have your plan.
And then you just like invitesome parents or young people.
That's not cool.
That's not gonna work, right?
(30:09):
So, how do we continue to ensurethat youth and families are in
positions to co-design andprovide leadership in developing
and creating real solutions?
Um, and how do we get to thosethat are not touched by the
child welfare system, right?
I think that is also somethingthat I'm seeing a lot as we have
a lot of people with livedexpertise of in these deep end
(30:30):
systems, which is critical.
Um, but what about families thathave stayed out, maybe because
they've had paid child care andyou know all the supports that
we want them to do?
How do we meaningfully engagewith people across those
different types of expertise todesign our primary prevention
ecosystem?
SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
Sure.
I think this is one of the mostimportant elements of Thriving
Family Safer Children, and onethat I think is sort of the
secret sauce that's going togive us two the right answers.
We believe firmly that authenticengagement is crucial, whether
you're working on housing orchild welfare or health.
Youth and families can tell youwhat the barriers are they're
(31:12):
facing and can give you reallygood ideas about how to address
them.
And so we think co-designdoesn't just help us do better
work, it also keeps us fromperpetuating negative
experiences or harm, and youknow, other unintended
consequences for people whohaven't actually experienced
this work.
(31:32):
So we we are thrilled at theways that these partnerships are
helping us embed more livedexperience and perspective into
the work.
I think it's really going to begreat.
You know, I I think the factthat we've got families with
lived experience in childwelfare, child welfare is
extraordinary, but I am alwaysstruck by the fact that, you
(31:52):
know, if if 40% of families comein contact with the child
welfare system every day, thereare millions of families who are
just sort of one phone call awayfrom being you know being
connected to these systems.
And, you know, we know fromother work we do around
education and workforce orhealth that there are families
who stand ready to engage, youknow, to help you understand
(32:17):
what they need, mostly aroundjust their basic needs, helping
them manage their basic needs.
I'll give you an example of aneffort that we've been engaged
in for about the last eightyears that's doing just this,
sort of engaging families andcommunities in conversations
about what they need.
It's called evidence to success.
And it's really built aroundeducation in school.
(32:39):
You know, what are the barriersto children thriving
academically?
So we created something calledthe Youth Experience Survey.
So we partner with the schoolsystem.
So the young people are thefirst ones who can tell us what
they need and what they'restruggling with.
And many are saying they arestruggling with depression and
anxiety, or they say they aredealing with food insecurity.
(33:03):
I'm hungry, I can't payattention in school.
It often reveals challenges thatkids are dealing with that the
school leaders or even theirparents might not always be
aware of.
With that data, we bring it toparents, to school
administrators, and say, okay,so this is what kids say they
are dealing with.
What are we going to do aboutit?
(33:24):
And it's in that partnershipbetween the parents, community,
and school leaders that theyfigure out, okay, what are the
evidence-based practices orprograms that we need to bring
to the school that will helpthese young people overcome
these challenges?
And through this process, we'veseen many institute school-based
(33:45):
mental health programs thatdidn't exist before.
Levels of depression havedropped by 70 or 80% in these
schools.
And so now young people can showup at school and they're able to
succeed academically.
I say all that to say I thinkwhat's really helpful in this
work is what's the data tell us?
Engage families and young peoplein that conversation.
(34:10):
What are the strategies andsolutions from your life that
you that you've seen work andthen partnering with
policymakers and community-basedorganizations so they can bring
those things to life.
Every time we try to dosomething without the
involvement of young people andfamilies, we get it wrong.
I have to admit that we get itwrong.
(34:31):
And um, every time we bring themin, we get smarter, we learn,
you know, a different way oflooking at things or a different
way of addressing the problems.
And so we see in these 22communities where we're working,
you know, where we're able tohelp them set up infrastructure
strategies to connect withfamilies, um, both with lived
lived experience and childwelfare and those not, the work
(34:54):
is just going to be going to bebetter.
It's going to be richer.
So I think this is a realimportant part of what we're
doing here.
SPEAKER_01 (35:00):
Such a critical part.
And I have to say, there's alsojust the part of, you know,
being a young person today isdifferent than when we were
young, right?
And we're not that old.
I'm not that old.
You're not that old.
I'm not claiming being that oldeither.
Yeah, no, we're we're young too,but you know, mental health was
still seen as such a stigma,right?
(35:21):
And now young people, they wantto talk to, you know, someone.
They want to have access tomental health support.
Not only do they need it,obviously the times right now
and and the data reveal that ouryoung people are struggling, but
it's like they give me hope forwhat's possible, right?
This idea that like that sceneis a real asset, a real
(35:43):
strength.
I was doing some like collegevisits with my daughter.
She's only 15, but she's veryprecocious.
She has lived before.
And we, you know, every time wetravel, we we go somewhere.
But some of the places thatwe've been going when the
students, the current collegestudents are giving the tour and
they're excited, they're like,and guess what?
We can see a therapist once aweek.
(36:05):
And and then everyone's like, ohwow, that's so cool.
You know, even just thisreframe, I think if we did not,
we were not connected to youngpeople, we would think in my
time it was still sostigmatized, right?
Because no one talked aboutbeing in therapy.
Now that it's seen as such astrength and such like a, you
know, it's an investment in yourwell-being.
(36:28):
It's prevention.
It is prevention, that is forsure.
And so I just think young peoplegive me a lot of hope too, about
about what's possible, right?
About the idea that that youdon't always do what you've
always done, right?
Like my angel who always tellsus when you know better, you do
better.
And you know, we can only dobetter in partnership and
(36:50):
broadening what we mean bypartnership.
We mean young people andfamilies and communities.
SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
And and young people are so empathetic.
I am always struck by how nomatter what they've been
through, their deepest goal isto prevent someone else from
having to experience that.
I that is always the mostbeautiful thing that comes out
of talking with young people.
I think folks don't reallyappreciate how how your sort of
empathy center turns on inadolescence.
(37:18):
And every young person I've met,they are willing to share very
hard truths about their livesand about their journey in hopes
that it will keep just one otheryoung person from having the
same challenge.
And I think that's such a giftof them to reveal themselves, to
(37:38):
advocate so that they can helpother young people have
positive, productive lives.
SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
I love that.
It's a beautiful way of bringingus to a close.
You know, at Prevent Child AbuseAmerica, we always talk about
how childhood lasts a lifetimeand how you're really we want
the best stuff happening earlyand often, right, to transform
lives.
So I just really appreciate thisopportunity to talk with you,
Lisa.
(38:06):
The last question I have is justbecause of our mutual love for
Atlanta.
You know, I know that uh yougrew up there, I lived there for
several years, and I'm justwondering what are your some of
your favorite things to do inAtlanta?
In particular, what are yourfavorite places to eat?
Because I'm all about food.
And I Atlanta has some reallygood food.
SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
So yeah, so it's changed a lot.
I haven't lived in Atlanta for12 years now, and so every time
I go home, I'm always thrilledto try a new place.
Well, I have always lovedMidtown in Atlanta.
It's where people are the parkis, it's the arts and culture
heart of the city.
So I just love Midtown, whetherit's the botanical gardens or
(38:45):
the high museum.
I always find myself in Midtownwhen I am home.
And there is a relatively newrestaurant there called Poor
Calvin's, which is um sort of amix of Asian and Southern.
You'd think it doesn't gotogether, but it does.
They've got creative cocktails.
So that's maybe the most recentplace I've tried that I really
(39:08):
love.
SPEAKER_01 (39:08):
Oh, I love that.
I love Midtown too.
I was just in Atlanta recentlyand stayed in Midtown, and some
of my favorite restaurants arein Midtown.
My favorite these days is Cooksand Soldiers.
It's like Spanish tapas, andthey just uh it's like in the
West Side, which is oh, yeah,the new West Side.
Yeah, exactly.
The new West Side.
So well, I'm going back in May.
So I'll oh, so you gotta try it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
I will, and thank you so much, Melissa.
You are such a light in thiswork.
Your passion and yourintelligence and your commitment
to this work is just aninspiration to all of us.
You are a wonderful partner toso many in the field and
especially to the Annie E.
Casey Foundation.
(39:52):
I was joking that Melissa's umpresented it to our board
probably more times than mostpeople, but it's because you are
such a resource and such anexpert in the field.
We want to expose them to thebest.
So thank you for the time youhave spent with us, um, both in
board meetings and numerous uhother conversations across the
(40:14):
country.
We are thrilled to be inpartnership with you and um
Prevent Child Abuse America andall of the partners in Thriving
Family Safe for Children.
I really do think this is um anextraordinarily important
opportunity moment for thefield, and I'm hopeful that we
can look back and say thispartnership really did create a
(40:35):
different uh structure, set ofsystems and opportunities for
families.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:40):
Lisa, likewise, I mean, all of that, same, same,
same.
And really your tremendousleadership.
You are a light and people, um,your leadership shines through.
And I know that we will lookback and say that the
partnership and the way that weare co-creating a new vision for
children and families in thiscountry.
(41:01):
Um, so much of it is because ofuh your leadership and all of
the wonderful leaders at AnnieE.
Casey, the way that you lift upagain, young people,
adolescents, and just the powerof not always doing things the
same way, right?
And when and again, being goodpartners.
I just think together we reallycan prevent some of the
(41:23):
nation's, you know, leadingcauses of death and illness and
disparity.
We can really um have, we canrealize in our lifetimes the
vision of hope and well-beingand thriving and love.
So thank you, Lisa, so much.
Um, look forward to many otheropportunities to connecting
soon.
(41:43):
Thanks for tuning in to thisexclusive episode.
The 2024 Cat Month series can bestreamed on our Cat Month page,
preventchildabuse.org backslashCat Month 2024, and wherever you
listen to your podcasts.
You can find more information atpreventchildause.org and on our
social media channels.
(42:04):
Remember, prevention ispossible, and together we can
prevent child abuse, America,because childhood lasts a
lifetime.
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