The Evolution of Digital Marketing and Podcasting with Vince Quinn

Episode Transcript
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Dane Shoemaker (00:00):
Hi, everyone. Dane Shoemaker here. This is the
Shoemaker Films podcast. I'mjoined with Vince Quinn at the
SBX production, studio here.Vince, how are you doing today?

Vince Quinn (00:09):
I'm wonderful, Dane. I'm wonderful. It's good
to see you.

Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. So I came across
you maybe about a year ago,started following you guys,
Philly Philly Content Clubprimarily. You know, wanna dive
into that a little bit today.
It's I mean, just the contentyou guys are putting out, it's
kind of a monthly networkinggroup and podcast. Like, kinda
curious to see what it is, but,you know, I just felt like we
had a lot of overlap in, ourwhat our businesses do, right,

(00:34):
as well as just general, youknow, digital marketing. And so
kinda just interested today toto learn a little bit more about
what you guys do, and, you know,we can kind of, do some back and
forth on, you know, digitalmarketing landscape, podcasting,
social media. So much to talkabout. So, you know Well yeah.

And when you reached out, I was excited for
for that exact same reason.Right? Because I think as
content creators, like, forpeople who have these technical
skills with all these differentmediums, audio, video,
photography, what like, socialwebsite, whatever it is. Like,
everybody you talk to seems tohave dabbled in everything.
Right?
It's, like, it's very rare thatyou meet somebody who's just,
like, no. I've only donewebsites, and it's the only

(01:13):
thing I've ever done. Like,people are, like, no. I I had a
I had a YouTube channel for ayear or 2, and, like, it's just
everybody's so connected and hasthese skill sets, and it's,
like, figuring out the best wayto unleash that in a way that
that works for you and, youknow, a business that you're
trying to build or whatever itmight be. It's like, it's a
really complicated game.
It's a hard thing to navigate.So to talk to you running video

(01:34):
production and everything isreally cool. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm
excited to learn about you as,hopefully, as much as you're
excited to learn about me.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think you touched
on, like, small businesses andeven just creators, you know,
solopreneurs. Right? Theythey're trying to navigate this
digital landscape.
Right? The social mediaplatforms are constantly
changing. Digital marketing ischain marketing in general is
changing. Right? And trying tonavigate that is is hard, and
you gotta try different thingsand see what sticks and what
your audience you know, yougotta kinda go where your
audience is.

(01:59):
Right? So, you know, in a coupleminutes, like, 2, 3 minutes,
tell me what SPX productionsdoes. We'll kinda go from there.

Yeah. Front to end podcast production company. So
we help people first off, like,the biggest thing when you're
trying to start a show is why.Right? Like, what do you wanna
get out of it?
I think a lot of people look atpodcasting and just go like, oh,
this is fun. It's just talking.We could totally do this. We'll
figure it out. Like, we're we'reso much fun at parties.
You know what I mean? So it'slike, okay. How's it gonna help
your business? Are you buildinga brand? Like, what do you wanna

(02:26):
actually see as a real result ofdoing a podcast?
So we help people figure thatout. And then along the way,
it's it's really the fullsupport system. Right? Because
it's not just the conceptupfront of, like, what is this
show called? What are the thingsyou're talking about?
Who are you talking to withthese different issues? It's how
do you record this thing? How doyou do that consistently?
Release it in a way that makessense. Get the sound bites
together.
Like, all those different thingsthat makes sense? Get the sound
bites together. Like, all thosedifferent things, we're very big

(02:47):
on making the lift as much aspossible on our side so that it
does feel like it's just talkingfor the people doing the show.
Sure. Yeah.
Because so many people get intoit. I I saw a stat that it was
47% of shows don't make it past3 episodes.

Okay.

And I was like

Not surprising, though, really. No.

Yeah. It's not. But but I think so many people, it
shows how easy it is for peopleto get full that the production
work is easy. They just see thetalking. So it's like, okay.
How can we make it that simpleso the people who do get engaged
with it, we can make that liftmanageable, and that's what
we're build on.

Yeah. I mean, to your point too, I mean, it's
just building a habit too of,like, making it a priority. Hey.
Every week, I want an episodegoing out. You know, just
building that into your everydayoperation as a business owner is
is hard enough.
Right? So Yeah.

I mean, people have a hard time managing their
clock. Right? It's hard. Yeah.Like, it's impossible.
I I came from radio. I didn'thave a clock. I was working, you
know, 2 AM to 6 AM other times.I was working 6 AM to 10 AM
other times, we were working 10PM to 2 AM. Like Yep.
It was all over the place, andthat could change within a week.
So once I became anentrepreneur, it was like, holy
shit. You know? I was like, I'mjust gonna work all of these.
Can I curse on this, by the way?

(03:58):
It's your show.

I think so. Yeah. I think we're okay. Yeah.

We've done it. We can always bleep it. But so so
we did that, and, my clock wascrazy when I first got started
with all this stuff. So I'mlike, okay. Well, I'm a small
business owner, and I'm runningaround like an idiot.
I need to take care of my clock.How can we do this in a way for
other people to make sure thatthey are protecting their clock
at least when it comes to thiscontent and making sure that,
like, no. We meet at this day.At this time, we're doing the

(04:22):
show. That's what's gonnahappen, and we're doing this for
as long as we need to.
Whether it's 10 weeks for aseason or every week because
that's how they wanna do theshow, but this is the day, this
is the time, and and we're gonnabe committed to that.

Yeah. That's awesome. And how long have you
been when did how long has SBSXBX been around?

So really 3 years has has been the majority of it.
Me and Taylor have been workingtogether for about 4. But Okay.
Yeah. It's been about 3 yearsfor SPX.
And over that time, I mean,we've we've worked with a lot of
different people. Like, the waythat we started, it was a lot of
people who trying to build anentertainment show. Right? Like,
they wanna be the next bigsports talk host or Yeah.
They've got all these greatstories from the bar.

(04:58):
Let me tell you. The the livesthat I've lived with the ladies.
You know what I mean? Like, itwas it was that kind of stuff.
And it's a hard thing tomaintain in the studio, because
people you don't have a brand.
You don't have a budget. Like,you don't you don't have these
things around you to make thevehicle really worthwhile for a
production company to manage it.So even if these things got

(05:18):
started, we'd put in all thiswork to just make sure that the
show could, like, exist with atrailer and an episode and a
feed. And then by the time wedid that, they're like,
actually, we can't do thisanymore. We're out.
Like and it'd be like, hey. Thisis a disaster. So, yeah, over 3
years, we've really moved fromthat to now we're doing a lot
of, like, entrepreneurial work.And now we're really shifting
focus as well to partner withmarketing agencies and and try

(05:41):
to build, like, biggerrelationships, bigger businesses
that that understand the fullecosystem around the podcast.

Yep. Were you always focused on podcast
production? Most mostly.

But, you know, it was like the size of that pie
has changed significantly.Right? I I think before it was
like, we're 60% podcast, butalso we're a social media
management company. And we're,you you know, we can do all the
clips, and we'll travel tolocation, and we'll film all
these things for you, andphotography, and all this other
stuff, website building. Andthen at some point, I'm on
Squarespace, and I'm like, whatthe hell am I doing here?
Like, what is what is this forme? You know, it's like Yeah.

(06:17):
Can I build a site that'sfunctional? Yes. Is it great?
No. And and if they're gettingit on a budget, it's like, okay.
I'm getting cash in my pocket.But, yeah, at what cost? Right?
Because, I think this the thetrap that kind of everybody
falls into is you can do thework and you can get the cash
and you can you can make thatproject go, but then it's like
on the big picture, okay, areyou gonna have 500 websites that

(06:41):
you match? Because you gottahave certain software for that.
You've gotta have a a way tohost all of those different
sites. You've gotta havesomebody that's available to
deal with all the websiteproblems. You're gonna have to
upgrade your certain systems inbuilding and everything.
So it's like, okay. Is that whatwe wanna do with the kinds of
people that we've been workingwith that are helping us out
part time, contractors,whatever? Like, are they built

(07:01):
for that, or we have to findthose people? And the more we
looked around, it was like, Icome from radio. Taylor's an
audio engineer.
He's been around podcasting fora very long time. That's my
business partner, by the way. Wehaven't met you Taylor yet, but
he's here. He's recording this.So so between us, it was like,
okay.
Well, we're audio people. Thepeople were working around our
audio people. Like, we'restorytellers. And as much as

(07:22):
video works into that nowadays,because when we first started,
video was just becoming part ofpodcast.

Right. Right.

That was just becoming the standard. So we
started to work that in, but wejust realized at our core, we
are podcast people. That is whatwe do best. And if we don't lean
into that, we're making amistake. We gotta differentiate,
and that's what we've got to do.

That's great. Yeah. I mean, every every
business, you know, guru, youknow, book that you read, it
says you gotta niche down.Right? You gotta focus on 1
doing one thing really well.
And then as your cup fills, youcan, you know, go out from
there. But you really gotta, youknow, build you know, focus on
one thing.

Yeah.

It's what every entrepreneur, you know, needs to
do. In our own business, it'sit's hard because I'm in the
same predicament, right, whereyou have clients coming to you,
say, hey. I need a website. Ineed email marketing. You know,
I think what we do really wellis kinda building out that
content calendar for clients.
So we do you know, we go out andwe shoot, once a month with with

(08:16):
our clients. We'll do a wholeproduction day or half day,
something like that. And thenwe're really good at, like,
repurposing some of that contentfor, emails. We're we're doing
email marketing now too inaddition to social and the
video, like, YouTube and stuff.So, that seems to be working
well because it's kind of likethat whole pipeline you can
kinda build out.
It kinda starts with, like, somecopywriting that might turn into

(08:37):
a social post that turns into anemail, and then maybe that the
things that outperform will turninto, like, a long form YouTube,
video or something like that.So, yeah, at some point, we need
to maybe narrow down or, youknow, rebrand or something like
that, but I I think, you know,it's business is a is an
interesting thing.

Yeah. No. That's that's so interesting you say
that because, like, as we'vemet, you know, I know you were
Shoemaker Films, and you've gotthe show, then the logo is
killer, by the way. I love thelogo.

You know, this logo is actually, stock graphic,
from Canva. Like, the bear thebear. It looks so cool. Spent,
prob I spent a couple grand ona, a logo designer. I ended up
hating it.
Yeah.

It was

like a it was a bear. It was a similar bear, but
I was like, you know what? Iended up just going with the the
stock image on Canva. So at atsome point, I'm gonna have to
copyright it or get someone to,like, you know, tweak it so I
can, like, trademark it orwhatever.

But Yeah.

You know, we'll see. We'll see.

That's so funny. Okay. Well, yeah, it looks
clean, but it's it's so funnythat you say all that because,
yeah, it's it's sounds likeyou're a full service digital
marketing agency. Basically.Yeah.
You've got that whole pipelineof things, and that makes so
much sense. Right? Because atthe very least, you've got those
different services, but you'veconnected it all together, and
it is a meaningful thing. Right?Like, for us, the podcast, it
it's not connected to thoseother parts in the way that we

(09:52):
were doing it, and the systemswe would have had to build out
to make it work.
It just it wasn't what we wantedto do. Yeah. You know? So it was
like, okay. Because part of itwas we've had to do all of that
work, and, like, I had to sellpodcast because we thought it it
was just, like, you know,business margins and models and
all that stuff.
But, to have that kind of setupmakes so much sense. It's very
clean. So that's that's greatthat you have that altogether

(10:14):
because then it's just differentways to get people into that
same funnel because the endproduct is the same.

More or less. Yeah. But yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
I think, you know, I think,again, business is a journey
that, you know, we might evolvein a year or 2 or, you know,
maybe decide that we wanna focusjust on video again. But, you
know, that seems to be workingright now. So

Yeah. And that's one of the things with
podcasting that's so difficultbecause what we realized is and
this is one of been one of ourfrustrations over the last,
like, year or 2, I'd say, isthat when we're recording, let's
say, we do a show with somebody.It's a great show. Right? Or
Yeah.
Or for somebody who's gettingstarted, like, it's a really
solid show. And you can see thepotential, and it fits their
business, and they're gettingthe right kinds of guests and
all that stuff. But then once webuild this thing and we edit it

(10:55):
and it's all ready to go andit's posted, then it's like,
here's the clips. Go promotethis thing. Like, make it a
really part of your brand andseize this thing.
And the baton just gets dropped.Yeah. Because they don't have
that other presence on the otherside. Right? Like, they are a
solo business owner.
They know the value of podcast,but when they don't have the
news letter right, their websitestinks. Their socials are

(11:15):
totally inconsistent. They don'thave engagement. Like Right.
Right.
We're giving them this thing,and then it just falls flat
because it's not it's notbrought anywhere. And that's the
problem. Like, this the podcastis a valuable tool, but it has
to be brought to people in a waythat brings you back that
business, that engagement. Youknow? So when they don't seize
it, it becomes a veryfrustrating thing.

(11:37):
And that marketing element,like, podcast is part of that,
but it's not the end all be all.It's kind of a a next step of
it. Start if you will.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Do you work with so tell
me about the type of clientsthat you work with. Are they in
Greater Philadelphia area?
I think you mentioned you havesome national clients. So tell
me about how that

Yeah. So it's it started in Philly naturally.
Right? Like, that's that's howeverything's began for us. It's
just people we knewword-of-mouth and whatever.
Like, for me, I had this littleperiod where when I was first
getting started with podcasting,I was still in radio. So I would
mention on the air and tweetsand whatever that I was doing
podcast production. So, like,things like that got the word
out a little bit. It didn't leadto much, but it it did a little

(12:17):
bit. And then from there, it waslike, okay.
Well, it's word-of-mouth. Theconnections that we make, like,
it it's you know, it's funny howthis stuff works and and the
beauty of podcasting beinguniversal is our bookkeeper
moved to Florida. And Okay. Shewas in Jersey. She moved to
Florida.
She knew some people in Floridathat were clients of hers that
could use the service. Now we'vegot some clients in Florida.

(12:37):
Like, it's just it's just howit's moved. So, yeah, it's it's
starting to expand a little bit,and and the beauty of podcasting
is that, like, it is such acommunicative medium.

Yeah.

You know, it's a networking platform for people.
So when they're bringing all oftheir guests on and those guests
can be from anywhere, then itmeans that we have the chance to
land a client that's anywhere.So that flexibility, this this
digital age allowing us to runhigh quality productions
anywhere in the country fromhere is a real benefit. So
that's one of the good thingsabout it. We've been able to

(13:10):
very slowly start to creep intodifferent places.

Yeah. That's pretty cool. How do you actually
execute that, you know,remotely? You know, just you
don't have to get too technical.We could we can go down that
road.
But

Yeah.

You know, just kinda curious about that. Yeah.

Well, the basic thing is, first off, we wanna
make sure the equipment's good.Right? Like, it'd be you can
record from home, but if you'redoing it on AirPods for a
podcast, I will kill you as aclient. I will kill you. I will
hunt you down.
I'm a very nice guy, but I willhunt you down in your sleep. So
it it's one of those thingswhere, yeah, we wanna make sure
what is a setup up that issustainable, that is affordable,
because we don't want people topay for a ungodly amount of

(13:43):
equipment. Right?

Right.

Like, the we wanna make sure the show works. So
first, low quality equipment,like, good like, well, quality,
but low budget. Right? AndTaylor's great at managing that
thread so he can nail thatstuff, and then we help people
set it up. We're very hands onin that way.
And from there, it's just it'sthat guiding element. Right? We
have an engineer to sit in tomanage the recording because,
God forbid, something goeswrong. Right? Like, your guest

(14:06):
comes on.
They go, actually, I can't hearyou. Let me let me leave and
come back. And, like, theheadphone settings are wrong.
You know what I mean? So it'slike to have somebody in there
that's a professional that cansay, okay.
Well, let's try this and let'stry that. Okay. Did you did you
do this or that? Like, to solvethose problems makes it so much
easier. It saves people a lot ofembarrassment.

Sure.

It is easy to have, because, like, God forbid you
record an episode with somebody,and you know what? The levels
are terrible.

Yeah. So

by the time you've you've done it, you're like, I
can't even air this. And I now II set this expectation with this
person, and I've wasted theirtime.

Yep.

And I don't even wanna tell them. You know? So
it's like, it it can be a reallytough spot. So that's why that
engineering element, thattechnical element with the
equipment is so vital for us,because it makes it feel like
they're getting a qualityexperience, and they're
presenting themselves in a veryprofessional way.

Okay.

And being able to do that is it you know, it's a
lot about confidence. It's abrand building thing. So if you
can't provide that, if theydon't feel confident in this
version of themselves Yep.You're making a mistake. And and
we decided that was reallyimportant.
And it frankly, that's wheremost people wanna be. You know?
It's nice to have the studiospace. Like, we get the FaceTime
and have this conversation. It'svery cool.
Yep. But, a lot of people justwanna be home. You know? It's

(15:15):
easier. So, hey.
How how do we go to the marketand adapt to them? And and
that's how we went about doing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, for most of our
clients today, we're going out.So we have we have 2 clients
that we produce their podcastfor on-site.
Actually, I was just thereyesterday where it's an all day
thing. We do 4 or 5 episodes.You know, it's it's a it's a lot
of work. Right? But we'resetting up cameras, mics, mic
stands, like, all the whole 9.
Right? Even, like you know? Butand then so we're doing this

(15:43):
podcast, our podcast for our ownbusiness. So it's a it's a way
to network. It's a way todevelop business.
Right? Create our own marketing.There's so many benefits to
podcasting. Right? You I don'thave to tell you that.
Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

But we're starting to do, you know, a
little bit more, like, remotealso because I think there is
value, like you said, in havingsomeone in the comfort of their
own home where they're wherethey're comfortable. You can
have a podcast now with withanyone across the world. Right?
So, there's just so manybenefits to, to doing that.
Yeah.

Yeah. The flexibility is great. Time
zones, whatever it is, itdoesn't matter. Yeah. And, and
that's the beauty of of themodern age with all of this
stuff.
Right? Like, tech has gotten sogood, and it's so affordable. I
mean, just quality things. Like,when you watch a video on
somebody's phone and you see thequality of it, it's like, oh my
god. You know?
Like, what what your run of themill LinkedIn post looks like

(16:35):
these days would have been tensof 1,000 of dollars to get
executed. I don't know. 20 yearsago, 15 years ago, like, you'd
be you'd be space age. Like,it'd be crazy what you're doing.
So, yeah, seeing that kind oftech evolve and being able to do
this in a way for people thatit's affordable because that was
one of the biggest problems too.
Right? It's like, we are workingwith a lot of entrepreneurs, so

(16:56):
they're solopreneurs or maybethey have a marketing person or
something. But, like, they don'thave a big team. They don't have
a big budget, and podcasts arean ongoing thing to some degree.
Right?
So it's okay. How do we do thisin a way that they can afford
it? And the equipment, they canafford it. Or the studio isn't
so expensive to build that wecan afford it. You know?
And we don't have to jack up theprice to record in studio an
insane amount. So it it's such adelicate dance, but things have

(17:19):
evolved that yeah. I mean,obviously, podcasting wasn't a
thing 20 years ago, really.Like, it was Yeah. But, I I
mean, thinking the way techsevolved, like, we wouldn't exist
if if it wasn't so flexible anddynamic and affordable.
There's just innovation all thetime.

Yeah. I mean, podcasts weren't around more
than 20 years ago. And I wouldeven argue that, like, in the
last 2 to 3 years, like, itwasn't feasible for a business
owner to start a podcast. Or itit would it would be a lot more
expensive, a lot more timeconsuming. But now, like you
said, the tools, the software,you know, everything that you
can do, it's it's more feasible.
Right?

Yeah. It's it's unbelievable. There's so many
places that do it. I mean, justfor a podcast like hosting
services that exist, there's somany recording platforms that
exist. Like, there's StreamYard,and I think a lot of people
start there.
But, I mean, on the low end, youhave Zoom and Google Meet. You
could do it on those if youreally need to. Yeah. Riverside,
like, there's there and we hearabout new ones all the time. I
mean, I feel like every 2 monthsor so, we're, like, oh, there's

(18:12):
another streaming platform upthere.
Are they any different? Are theyany better? No. Not yet. But who
knows?
Maybe 2 years from now, they'rethe best one that takes over the
market. Like, it's just supercompetitive because everybody
wants to be in the game.

What do you what do you guys use?

So we use Riverside. Okay. Yeah. Love it.
Swear by it.
Absolutely. Yeah. Whether youwork with us or not, use
Riverside, like, for the love ofGod. It's so

We love it. Yeah. We use it

too. Right?

You you you just

can't beat that back up, like, the the lag
recording, You know? Like

That you know, records locally, and then you
upload it later. Yeah. It'smagic.

Yeah. Absolute magic. It's so good.

Yep. I wish more people do that. Like, I wish
Zoom or Google Meet actually hadthat option. It would be a game
changer, I think. You know?

Well and they would own the market if they did that.
Yeah. You know? Becauseeverybody does wanna go there
because that's what they alreadyuse for work. Like, the number
of people that I see that areprofessionals and even have some
level of media savvy who don'tbother to look at those other
platforms.
It's just like, I'm gonna recordon Zoom.

Right.

And it looks terrible to you know? Like, the
quality is not good. Yeah. ButBut it's easy, and it's there,
and everybody's used to it. Sothey just they do that's just
what they do.

Yep. Yep. Cool. So do you guys handle, like,
scheduling for clients and theirguests? Like, how does that
like, what does a preproductionlook like for a client?

Yeah. We certainly can. Right? We give that as an
option to people as much as theywant it because Yeah. It's a
pain.
Right? People reschedule ortrying to get all these people.
Let's say, for our regularclients, typically, what we do
is we run a season. Right? Sowe're gonna do 10 episodes.
It's gonna be very thoughtful interms of doing all of those, and
then we'll take a break. We'llreevaluate, and we'll do another
season.

Okay.

So with that, like, let's say, okay. You've got 10
different guests. You're gonnarecord one of our clients, for
example, Thursday's 9 o'clock.So you've now gotta put that out
to 10 different people, andyou've gotta get them all to
commit to a Thursday at 9o'clock. So doing that is a
pain.
Right? It could take a lot oftime. People are gonna wanna
reschedule once you get closerto them. What are the other days
that you can do? And whatwhatever.

(20:04):
It's it and you have tocoordinate with our producers
and make sure we have somebodythat's available to engineer it
and all those things. So, likeRight. Making sure that that is
all set and clean, we do wannado the scheduling for people
because it's a lot of work, andwe have experience in it. So we
know ways to make that processsimple and easy, and we track
everything really well on theback end. So we we do try to do
that because it's the same thingwe talked about earlier.

(20:25):
Right? Like, time management issuch a big thing. And if you're
allowing a guest cancellation orsomething to completely blow you
up or the inability to take thetime to fill a slot in your
schedule to throw you off, like,it it's just not worth it. You
need to be really aggressiveabout those things as small as
they seem. So we're veryparticular about it.

Yeah. Absolutely. Topics, like, are
you are you constantly feeding?Like, if you have I guess some
of your clients have guests.Right?
Do do some of your clients arethey just solo shows? Like, how
does that work? Like, research,topic, development?

So one of the biggest things I would say is,
first off, people don't takeenough of a leap in doing a show
by themselves.

Okay.

Like, I think people are are too afraid to
speak on their own, and I get itbecause, like, it it's hard.
Right? You gotta develop yourvoice. And Yeah. And to do that
in a public format is a scarything to do.
But you have to at least have itin your back pocket because
think about this. Right? Like,you're a business owner in any
field. I don't care what it is.You bring all these different
guests on your field becauseyou're networking and whatever

(21:29):
your lead prospecting, whateverit might be.
But that's your platform. Andevery time you're doing that
show, you're allowing otherpeople to dominate your
platform. Where's your voice?You know what I mean? Like, you
could you could have all theseguests, and that's interesting,
and it's relevant to the space.
But, like, if I wanna buy fromyou, give me you. You know what
I mean? Like Yep. So so whichI'm trying to encourage people

(21:52):
of, like, no. If a guestcancels, have ideas for things
to do on your own.
Have your own solo topics. Like,work that in because the reps
that you get and the valuethat's gonna bring you because
there's times where, like, Ialways listen back to episodes
that I do. Right? If I'm a gueston something, I'd listen back.
And when I do that, I'll hearcertain lines I say about the

(22:12):
business and the way that weoperate, and I'll be like, oh,
that's really good.
I get a hold on to that. I getto use that again.

Right. Right.

You know? But if I'm not doing those kinds of
things and and building it allthe time, like, I'm hurting
myself as a public speaker,representative of the company,
describing myself when peopleare at networking meetings and
going, wait. What do you do? Youknow, like, the more reps of
that, the better. So I think,doing that is is vital, and I do
encourage people to do episodeson their own or at least
practice it on their own even ifthey're not publishing it.

(22:39):
Like, do 15 minutes on your ownand see what it sounds like.

Right.

But then that next level is the topics and
everything else. We don't do itfor everybody. Like, what we do
is upfront because not everybodyhas a massive budget. Right? So
upfront, what we'll do is we'llhave a strategy session, and we
do a pilot program where theideas will be pretty involved
upfront.
Like, we'll talk about, hey.Let's have a meeting or 2. We're
gonna talk about what yourbusiness is, what you wanna

(23:03):
accomplish, who do you wannatalk to, all those things I
talked about at the verybeginning. From there, we
developed the concept for theshow. We do one episode, make
sure we all like it, theproduction quality, the way it
looks and feels.
Like, the the exact flow of itis really where we all want it
to be, and we think it'srepeatable in a long term form.
So once we agree on that, then,you know, if people have the

(23:24):
budget, we can be involved asexecutive producers and
consultants and, like, help thembuild out those different topics
and the nuances of hosting toget the most out of a guest or
get the most out of their soloepisode. Like, we can really dig
into that. Yeah. Not everybodycan.
And the alternative to that iswe'll let people we'll give them
that foundation. They do theseason. We support them in all
those other ways, scheduling,editing, recording, all of that.

(23:47):
Yeah. And then once it hits theback end of the season, we can
give them a report.
And I'll review their show, andI'll give them notes. It'll just
be an overview of things ratherthan more of a microanalysis.
And by giving them that, it'sour way of saying, hey. We care
about you. We're checking in.
We want you to grow. They getto, you know, continue to build
on this investment that they'vemade in their business, and it

(24:09):
it just works for everybody.Right? Like, they're dedicated.
They want it to be better.
We wanna help them, so that'swhat we do.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so important. I mean, you
have to have that analysis. AndI like how like how you have
this set up, like a pilot, andthen you do a season.
Right? Yeah. Is it is it mostlydo you batch content at all with
clients, or is it mostly, like,yeah, weekly? How does that
work?

Big time batching. Yes. Especially for these
seasons. Right? Like, our goalwith a lot of the shows that we
work with and and what we'vebeen spending a lot of time
really in the past, I don'tknow, 8 months has been building
out our process with all of thepeople that we have working with
us to the point where we have anentire season.
Like, we have a show that welaunched recently. And by the
time that first episode was putout into the public, we had

(24:52):
every single episode recorded,edited, uploaded. It was all set
to go. Yeah. And we were and theonly thing that we've been
working on as the show has beenrolling out is the social media
posts.
But the next time we got anothershow that's through the flow, I
want those ready to go too. Youknow? Like and and we just
wanted to be a set it and forgetit kind of thing because then
that way, we focused on theproduction. It's all done. We

(25:14):
focused on the socials.
It's all done. And they justhave to find the other ways to,
you know, engage with peopleabout it, talk about the show,
or just continue with puttingthe energy that they normally do
into their social media channelaround the show. Right? So we
can have all those posts there.But, hey, if they got other
things that they're showcasingor they're promoting or
whatever, like, go do that.
You know? We we don't want it totake over their lives. So that's

(25:36):
why, yeah, we try to batcheverything because God forbid,
same thing. Right? It's like,oh, we we forgot to schedule
somebody or they canceled.
We don't have an episode thisweek. Like, that is the last
thing I wanna hear. I just I Ihonestly, I just won't tolerate
it. Right? Like Right.
Right. At like, I was in radio.It was always like, you're live.
You're doing it. Like, there'sno you know?
Like, it's it's you're you're inthe air and you gotta make it

(25:58):
happen. So, I refuse to say,like, oh, well, we're just we're
we're just gonna miss this week.Yeah. You know? So it's like,
how do we do this as much aspossible to make it as easy as
possible?
And and that's where we'vesettled

on it.

Yeah. Nice.

Nice. Your career in broadcast, you know,
would you did you go to schoolfor that? Like, tell me a little
bit about some background.

I mean, technically, I didn't learn a
damn thing in school. I reallydidn't. I went to Fordham, which
is supposed to be a greatbroadcasting school,
communications, TV, and radio.That is that is my graduation
degree. I spent, like, 12 yearsin radio.
So everything would tell youthat school taught me how to do
radio. That is not the the caseat all. So what happened was I
mean, for me, I got out ofschool, and as soon as I got

(26:38):
out, I was like, okay. I gottado something to show that I've
got, like, skills. Right?
Like, I was a slacker in school.I never cared. Like, I'm in a
philosophy class or a historyclass. I'm like, I'm not doing
this. This isn't my life.
I don't like I'm just notmotivated. And I always knew
once I got out, I would, like,unleash that that thing that I
have in me, whatever that energyis. Yep. So I got out. I started

(26:58):
a sports blog.
I got a couple of friends ofmine from college and high
school together. We werecovering all the Philly sports
stuff. I built the website. Idid the logos. I was blogging.
I was running the podcast. Like,I was the main host on the show.

Nice.

Editing it. I was doing everything. So

year was that?

This was 2012.

Okay.

Yeah. Nice. I was I was deep in it just doing
everything. And from there, Igot a call eventually, like, I
don't know, like, 5, 6 monthslater to work at WIP as, a
member of the promotionsdepartment. So I was the guy
that would go out to events, andI was like, hey.
Spin the wheel with a shirt. Youknow? So I was giving that, like

It's a thankless job. Is that Yes. Yeah.

Yes. It is.

Pretty fun for 20 something. Right? You know?

Well, yeah. Being out and around, like, it was it
was really cool, and it waskinda funny because my parent
like, I was always a sports nut.Like Yeah. Always a massive
sports nut and especiallyfootball, but my parents
weren't. You know?
Like, my dad coached my teamsand stuff as a kid, but he
wasn't, like, you know, paintinghis face at the Phillies game
and yelling and screaming. Like,he was never like that.

Right. Right.

I was always putting the games on. So sports
radio, I knew about it, but Iwasn't, like, in it. Okay. And
then suddenly, I'm in it. AndI'm like, I didn't know this
existed really.
You know what I mean? Like, tothe degree that it did. I was
always watching ESPN and ComcastSportsnet. I wasn't listening to
WIP. But now I'm in there, andI'm at the events, and I'm
meeting the people, and I knowthem from TV.
And I'm like, oh, I can, like,hang out in a Philly's game.

(28:22):
Like, I can be in an Eagle'stailgate. And, like, this
environment is always where I'vewanted to be and been happy. So
Yeah. Let me let me explorethis.
And and after about a year, youknow, at that point, I I was
just taking every shift theywould give me, just putting cash
in my pocket, trying to build agood reputation for myself. I
learned that, people frompromotions had found their way

(28:42):
into producing. Okay. And I waslike, oh, I didn't know you
could do that. So then I startedto finish my promotion shifts,
and I would get home.
You know, sometimes, like, 8hours, 12 hours, whatever it
was, and, like, exhausting work,physical work.

Mhmm.

And and, you know, you have to entertain people
more or less. So, like, I gethome from those shifts or back
to the station, then I wouldjust sit in studio and learn how
to be a producer. Yeah. I wouldjust ask guys questions with a
notebook, and they were willingto answer them for me, which is
great. So from there, I kind ofapplied the philosophy when they
needed somebody.
I ended up getting a fill inshift as a producer. Then I
started taking all the producershifts and climb my way up the
ladder there while I was inpromotions. Like, it was this

(29:17):
whole constantly evolving thing.I mean, I had a point where with
all the different roles that Iwas doing within the business, I
think I legitimately had 8different titles that I could
claim in WIP that I was doingsimultaneously. It was nuts.
But, ultimately, you know, Irealized I wanted to be a host.
I thought it could be reallygood at it. I got my first crack
at 25, which was crazy.

Yeah.

Like, they they told me I couldn't say my age on
the air until I was 40. And as a25 year old, that was a shock.
So it was, like, oh my god. Soyeah. I got my first crack
really young because I washosting a podcast and doing all
this stuff along the side.
So I was getting reps for acouple of years. I'd been a
producer. I knew the flow of theshows. Yeah. So they needed

(30:00):
someone in emergency spot.
I got the shift, didn't lookback. Same thing. Working my way
up in the rotation. At theheight of it, I I had a
nationally syndicated show. Youknow?
I was I was on 225 stations in,with CBS Sports Radio. So it was
like and I did that at 29. Yeah.It was crazy. But that was the
thing.
I got out of school. I found theopportunity. It was something

(30:20):
that actually engaged me that Ithought I could be good at, and
I put in everything I possiblycould into it, and I climbed the
ladder.

Amazing. Yeah. I mean, you you definitely have,
like, a voice for radio, I gottasay. Like, you you have the gift
of gab. You know?
Yeah. You know that already, butyeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I get it. I it it
really does come from both of myparents. My dad is very sing
songy. When he speaks, he's justgot that flow to him.
And so I really picked that upfrom him. And then my mom is
just one of those people that ina conversation, she's just
always got whenever there's thatnatural low, she's got the
question. Right? She's got thenext thing of just, like, well,
well, how's your sister doing?You know?

(30:55):
It's like she just always keepsit moving. So between the 2 of
them, I'd put all of thattogether and, like, being a
slacker in school and all that,I just hung out with people all
the time. I wasn't doinghomework. I wasn't working hard.
I was goofing off.
Yeah. So I I spent so much timesocially and was around these
conversational people that Ijust got to unlock everything in
radio. It was really a perfectfit.

Amazing. Yeah. And then at what point did you
make the shift to starting abusiness?

Yeah. So, pandemic changed everything.

Okay.

So what happened was once that hit, I had been
the national overnight guy for alittle bit, maybe maybe, like, a
year, something like that. And Ithought I was doing really well.
Like, all the reviews I got weregood. Talking to my boss, he was
really happy with everythingthat I was doing. Producers were
were very critical, butsupportive of what I was doing.
So everything felt right. Andthen it got to a point where

(31:43):
when the pandemic hit, they theyhad to make decisions about who
was hosting shows and whowasn't, and I lost my show.
Okay. And they gave it toanother guy who was in the
building, and, you know, he wasolder than me. He'd been around
longer than me.
So they were playing favorites.It was a politics game, and I
lost. And at that point, it wasfunny because I was a I was a

(32:06):
shift employee. Like Yeah. Iwasn't you know what I mean?
I wasn't salaried, but theydecided to give my shifts, to
another guy. So it was like,well, what am I gonna do?
They're like, well, I don'tknow. Good luck, basically. So I
kept working at WIP.
I was still there at the time. Iwas doing both back back and
forth between Philly and NewYork. And once I got, that once

(32:26):
that happened, like, you know, II had to reevaluate everything.
I'm like, I had doubts aboutradio anyway in the long term
because I didn't think it was agreat business. You know?
I I didn't think everything I'dseen, layoffs all the time in,
like, the 10 years I'd been inthe business is just constantly
people losing their jobs. You'retalking about salaries not going
up or being very stagnated. Thepay in general wasn't great. It

(32:48):
was deceptively bad because yougotta watch all these games. You
gotta prepare for the show.
You gotta read the news all thetime. So, like, your hourly was
not your hourly. So everythingabout it felt off, but I was
thinking, alright. I can eithercontinue to be in this and die
in it, basically, trying to pushfor a full time job and that
security, or I I can startlooking at ways to get out of

(33:09):
here. And as I had, you know,been forced to really
contemplate my future and itbeing let go, temporarily, I I
was like, okay.
Well, I I have this chance towork at a podcast studio, and
let me see what this is about.Okay. And, you know, they had
people who wanted to do thesports shows. I had credibility
in that area, and people knew mebecause they listened to WIP

(33:29):
being local guys that wanted todo a sports show. Yeah.
So I had a little bit of weightto bring to the table. And that
was my first peek into seeingthe business. And the more I've
thought about it and spent timein it, I thought I'd rather be
here. It's a it's a betterschedule. I can build some like,
I'm in full control of what thisis more or less.
Like, I have say in thisoperation. I can express my
ideas. They don't have dumblimitations that the radio

(33:51):
offers, like cursing, for

example. Sure.

It's just just like stupid guardrails. So it's like,
I have freedom here. I can becreative. I think I can really
help these people, and this iswhere everybody's going. Like,
it's not going in the radioanymore.
All those people are leaving.

Right.

And I didn't think they were cultivating talent
well. So, I thought that was myopportunity to jump. And over
the next, like, year or so, I Istarted to transition myself out
of radio entirely.

K. Nice. And so you're working then full time
for this other podcast studio?Is that More

or less. Yeah. I mean, I was pretty much I I
started to very quickly be fulltime at the studio. Okay. And as
I was doing that, my weekend youknow, it was weekend overnight
show at CBS.
They did bring me backeventually. Once things calm
down a little bit and there was,like, more shifts and money to
go around, then I got my showback for a while, and I took it
because what else am I gonna do?You know? Like, I'm just gonna

(34:41):
say no to a national show when Idon't have a great better
option. The business was toonew.
Yep. And that one in particular,that studio that me and Taylor
before, it fell apart. As soonas we left, it fell apart. It
wasn't well built.

Mhmm.

So, yeah. So I was doing that for a little bit and
trying to figure it out, but I Ivery quickly started to do all
my time during the day wasthere. And then if I had shifts
at WIP or CBS, I would only takethem at night or overnight so
that I could be back at thestudio during the day just
trying to solve problems and andbuild this thing from the ground
up.

Yeah. Yeah. Nice. And so when did you go out
on your own then to to buildbuild us?

Yeah. So that was probably after, like, a year or
so of of being at the previousstudio. It was just one of those
things where, one, therelationship wasn't good, like,
with the guy who had foundedthat studio. Wasn't a good
relationship. Didn't like how hewas doing business.
It wasn't available as much as Iwould have liked. And
considering I was putting all mytime into it and and, you know,
it's a it was a startupbusiness. We needed investments

(35:37):
in equipment and all that. Ourclientele was not a good client
base. Like Yeah.
I was putting my personal moneyinto making that thing go.

Right.

You know? So it's like, if I'm really making these
investments, I gotta believe inthis, and I didn't fully believe
that things were equitable. And,I I didn't believe in the in
kind of the direction that theysaw for it that that he saw for
it. So I figured, you know what?We gotta build something else.
We gotta get out of here, andthat's what we did.

Nice. Did you have some early you know, what
was that early client list like?I mean Yeah.

Did you

have a first client? What was that first that
first win like?

Well, it's funny because when I came in, there
were existing clients at thatother studio. Right? And then
when I left, all of them camewith me. Oh, okay. All of them
all of them came with us.
So it it just But that

was totally smooth, didn't ruffle any
feathers.

Oh, no. Ruffed feathers. But it's just do do I
have regrets about it? Andabsolutely not. I did no.
I'd no regrets. I I made theright decision. I did no. I no
regrets. I'd I made the rightdecision.
But and and the fact that everyclient came with us is testament
to that. Right? So, like, thatthat's what it is. So, yeah, we
we made that transition, thenwas trying to change what the
the focus of the business was.Then it was like, we wanna build
this big sports outlet and tryto get a blog going with it and

(36:41):
all these other things.
And then it was like, no. We'rea podcast production company.
We're gonna work with businessesand things and build those kinds
of relationships and and not tryto build entertainment vehicles
from scratch. Like, it's justnot a good way to go.

Amazing. Yeah. And now you've built that up
into what it is today. I mean,really impressive stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. We're trying, man. We're we put a lot of
thought into it. And, like,credit to Taylor because,
honestly, we've spent we've beenthrough a lot together, and,
like, we spend pretty much allday every day together. Like, we
just sit, and we're constantlytalking about things and
pitching ideas and shaping stuffand ditching things and, you
know, like, it's just it's a conlike, every second of it is just

(37:20):
we're always refining and alwayslooking for that next step, and
how do we get bigger and how dowe get better and build better
connections, and all those kindsof things.
I mean, it is a relentlessprocess for both of us. It
hasn't been easy, but we've bothbeen, like, really rock solid
committed to building thistogether. And it it's been a
joy. Yeah. It's been a joy.
Yeah.

Is it just the 2 of you, or do you have other
freelancers, contractorsinvolved?

So we have a lot of other contractors.

You know,

they've they've been great. And the only reason
that they're contractors,honestly, is we're growing
business. We can't afford peopleto be part time and full time
yet. But and also, there are alot of production people and
have other jobs, so we've beenable to fit our stuff into their
schedule. So it's been a win foreverybody Yeah.
At this phase. But, yeah, Imean, big picture, we want full
time people. We want a big team.Like, we wanna do all that

(38:08):
stuff. But for now, we've beenable to artfully get other
people to support us.
And, you know, by doing that,we've been able to explore these
up other opportunities with thebusiness and and find new
relationships and all. We'vebeen able to actually grow it
because we've got the otherpeople to help do the work.

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, there's
great people out there.
You know, we have we have hiredtons of freelancers. I mean, I
have an editor. I have a socialmedia manager, like, a
copywriter now we're bringingon. So, That's great. Yeah.
So, excuse me. So let's talkabout marketing, and maybe
that's a good segue into PhillyContent Club. Like, what do you
guys do to attract clients? Whatdo you do from a marketing

(38:47):
perspective?

Yeah. You know what? A lot of our marketing
honestly has been networking.Yeah. That is the big just being
out and about and having as manyconversations as we possibly
can, shaking hands.
Like, it it's anything that wecan do. I've had a stretch for a
little bit where I've beenactively getting myself booked
on podcast. Right? So there'spodcast match platforms, pod
match, matchmaker. I've beengoing on those and just

(39:09):
obsessively

Have you found those to be pretty successful?
Yeah. Yeah. I was looking at itthe other day, actually. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I I mean, I developed a whole system for
it, you know, of getting theseshows. I build a custom GPT to,
like, help me do the pitches. Itwas, like, I was I was die hard
about it because it waseffective marketing. Right?
Like, I knew what my audiencewas, which is entrepreneurs who
have podcasts or wanna start apodcast. So let me get on as
many entrepreneurial focusedpodcasts as I possibly can.

Makes sense.

Right? Yeah. So that that was the goal. So I
started to build up a lot ofthose. That's been a project
recently.
Otherwise, joining differentgroups, chambers of commerce,
and and just differentnetworking groups, whether free
or paid. I mean, the paid ones,you tend to get better other
people in the room, you know,understand the prospect more,
are more ready to spend moneyfor marketing and understand the

(39:56):
value of it.

Yeah.

So it's not like, oh, I think a podcast is great.
Oh, it's not $20. Like, I can't.You know what I mean? So it's
like, we've been getting betterleads and trying to level up.
So leveling up the network hasbeen just as important a goal
because it's gonna get us abetter client base.

Yeah.

So we put a ton of it into marketing. And then,
yeah, occasionally, we getpeople just because they're a
guest on the show. Anything thatwe manage, and they're like, oh,
this is this is nice. Like, thisis cool. You know?
So, so that helps too. Andthat's why in part, we try to
treat it like a white glove VIPsort of service. So those are a
lot of things. And then like yousaid, Philly Content Club.
Right?
It's been a way to shareinformation, our business

(40:34):
experience, because, I mean,when we got in the door, I had
no business experience. I'dnever been to business school. I
was a radio host in the middleof the night. Like, I didn't I
didn't do anything with anybody.So all of this has been self
taught along the way, and that'sa lot of the stuff that we've
talked about too, me and Taylor.
It's just like, how do we runthis business? What is our
model? How are we tracking thisand that and learning the
finance game and all thosedifferent things? So to be able

(40:55):
to share that informationbecause it's been something
that's been very helpful to us.It's it's why we're still in
business.
Yeah. And it's something thateverybody wants to know about.
It's like, hey. Let's sharethese things. We we get to meet
like minded people who totallyhave that same kind of passion
and energy and commitment, andit's been great.
So, yeah, it's it's a great wayto connect with people, show

(41:16):
that we know what we're talkingabout, and, you just never know.
You know? I'd our philosophy ismore if you put good things out
there, good things will return,and and we feel that.

Yeah. So what's the what's, like, the elevator
pitch for for, how would youdescribe Philly Content Club to
somebody?

Taylor? Yeah. No. So

So I know it's a podcast. It's a club. You know,
it's in the pyramid club inPhilly. Like, tell me, you know

Yeah. I mean, it's it's more an educational space
for entrepreneurs. Okay. I thinkis the the most simple way to
put it. And it's been a lot ofbusiness principles and the
things around that.
So a lot of that core stuff oftime management and strategy and
just sort of more or less, like,self awareness. Yeah. It's a lot
of those kinds of things. Andthen on the other side, it is
content related stuff about thevalue of podcasting or ways to

(42:00):
manage a social media account orhow to get a good sound bite.
Like, those are the kinds ofthings that we're working on as
well, and we've talked about atdifferent events that we've run.
Like Yeah. I did one of thoseevents about it was all about
AI. And I just showed people,I'm like, this is chat GPT. This
is a prompt. These are how thoseprompts work.
Like, here's how AI art works.So, like, being able to just
very matter of factly showpeople stuff that they either

(42:22):
wanna get involved with andhaven't had the time for or are
too nervous to jump into ontheir own. They need that you
know, it's kinda like your firstswim lesson. Right? You want
somebody in the pool and you gotyour floaty and they're, like,
guiding you around.
So to be able to give them thatintroduction is what we've done.
Yeah. And to be able to do that,the pyramid club, they've been a
great partner to us. They'refull of entrepreneurs who are

(42:43):
hungry for that kind ofinformation. And, it's been a
ride.
It's been a ride.

Yeah. So you have so it's once meet you guys
meet once a month, and there'stypically a topic that you're
focused on. Probably guests comein. Right?

Yeah. We've done a lot of that, and we're we're
gonna be fine tuning things.Because for the summer, we
slowed down all those events,and we've been trying to figure
out, okay, like, doing one,doing an event every month is
exhausting.

Yeah.

And trying to do it with the amount of production
that I wanna do it because Ican't help myself. I've I've got
a perfectionist bone in my body.Right? And so with that, it's
like when I'm doing something,it's like, what is the best
version of this? And so, like, II kinda drive myself crazy
trying to make something great.
But, at some point, am I burningmyself out? Because we have a
business to run, and as much asthis is marketing, like, it's

(43:25):
it's gotta be a right balance.Yeah. So yeah. Now what we're
doing is we're thinking moreabout, like, DIY stuff,
educating people.
I'm like, hey. Here's the basicsof how to edit your own social
media clips. You know what Imean? And, like, if they just
need that to get started, great.And then if it turns out once
they do that, they've been doingit for a little while and it's
works and it gets the traction,they're ready for professional
help.

(43:45):
We're there. We're the peoplethat taught them. They'll be
appreciated for that. We have astudio that offers that service.
Great.
Like, let's do it together now.So, we're gonna be doing that,
and then we're talking about alot of workshop ideas. Okay. So
things would be, you know, likean actual ticketed event, but
people walk away with, like,very substantial results from
that tangible things they cantake with them. That is the goal
as well.
So we're still fine tuning whatthat next phase is, but that's

(44:08):
where we're putting a lot oftime into.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's such a, like,
justice juxtaposition. I can'teven say that word. Like like,
such a contrast of, like, whatwe do, creating digital content,
right, but then bringing peoplein person because that's what
people really wanna do.
Right? Like, they wanna be inperson networking. And,
ironically, I'm in the sameboat. A lot of the business that
we get is from referrals, inperson networking. You know?

(44:31):
I'm in the same I do part ofMainline Chamber of Commerce,
very active with them. DelawareCounty is on on the radar. I
just need to write the check,basically. But, Philly Ad Club,
we're active in. Newtown SquareBusiness Association, you know,
I'm on the board there.
So I just feel like being youknow, networking in person is so

(44:52):
important, and, like, peoplehave a have a desire to be
together, you know, at the endof the day. Right? Yeah. But but
having having the flexibility ofdoing things remote, you know,
consuming, you know, socialmedia content, podcasts, like,
it's a great it's a great worldwe're in right now. I don't
know.
Yeah.

Yeah. No. It is. It's it's it's very connected.
Everybody's looking for groupsto to be in.
And and having that continuity,I think, is really hard because
it's like there's so manygroups. Right? When I was first
like, alright. I'm gonna committo networking. There's a
1,000,000 groups, and and it'slike, alright.
Well, I wanna check all theseout, but there's a million of
them. So Yeah. How much time canyou commit? And it's like, okay.
Well, what we realized isobviously you can join a couple

(45:28):
of groups, but you need to go tothose regularly.
And if you can't make thatregular commitment, you're not
gonna see the value. But you dosee it because you show up, and
then you recognize people whenyou come in the door, and they
recognize you. And whensomething comes up, you think of
them, and you're gonna sendsomebody their way, or you give
them a call because you needtheir help. And it's just like
yeah. It it does become a senseof community even if those
people aren't, like, your bestfriends, you know, but there

(45:48):
there are times where you meetpeople, especially as an
entrepreneurial mindset.
Like, there's a spirit to it.There's a mentality to it, and
you've got problems that youwanna talk about. And to have
people that you trust in asimilar space that get what this
grind is to be able to, like,emotionally support each other.
You do meet some of those peopleas well, and that's honestly

(46:09):
been maybe just as big a valueif anything to be able to just
spitball with other people whoget it. It's it's a real relief
to be like, yeah.
Running this thing is superexhausting, and we've got all
these ideas. And what do youthink of this and that? And
Yeah. And to get that kind ofexpertise from people that you
respect and and have built theirown thing as well, it's, like,
it's very cool. So finding thosegroups, meeting those people,

(46:30):
it's it's a beautiful thing.

Yeah. Yeah. I've also I don't know if you do any,
like, other coaching programs oronline style. I just recently
joined the future. Do you knowChris Do and that, I

know Chris Do. I don't know this group.

Yeah. It's, it's pretty awesome. You know, it's a
monthly it's a monthly fee. It'san investment, but it's, like,
twice a month, kinda networkingwith other creatives. And it's
pretty broad.
It's not just video. It'sdesigners, graphic designers,
you know, editors, you know, allkinds of you know, any any
creative, industry, marketers,things like that. And, it's
really about building yourbusiness skills within a

(47:03):
creative industry. Right? Sodefinitely very valuable stuff.

Yeah. It's everything. I mean and that's
the thing. Right? It's all it'sall tied together.
Like, you need everybody. Whenin whatever realm of content
you're in, more or less, youneed everybody because it all
ties together and peopleinevitably want it. So it's just
like I like, you know, who's agood photographer? Who's a good,
newsletter person? Who does thisor that?
Like, for it it's it's justeverybody's asking about it, and

(47:28):
it's good to be like, okay.Well, if somebody comes to us
and let's say, you know, for, Idon't know, a a certain kind of
they want a brand video. Right?

Yeah.

Do you wanna be like, well, I totally get this,
and we used to do that. But,like, we're not doing that
anymore. But here's somebodywho's really good at it. We
could send them your way. Andit's exactly, here you go, Dane.
Here's somebody who needs abrand video. Like, it's cool to
have those kinds ofrelationships with people
because it does essentiallystrengthen your business in
having that partnership.

Yep. Yep. And I could see, you know, hey. We
have we have podcast clientslocally, but maybe you guys are
a better fit for someone who'sremote or, you know, I feel I
just feel like there's someoverlap there at some point in
the future. So yep.

Yeah. Yep.

So I think, you know, why don't we do do you
wanna do a little, is thereanything else you wanna talk
about? Like, I mean, anything wehaven't share you haven't
shared? Or

No. I'm getting married in a month and a half.
So I can I can talk aboutweddings all day? Yeah. You can
I

bet you can?

Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's Congratulations. Yeah.
Thank you.
Let's talk about mother sonsongs. It's that's that's
stumping me right now. No. Sono. I I really don't have any I
feel like we've covered so muchground.
Yeah. Yeah. So, if you gotlightning round, man, I'm
totally ready.

Let's try it out. Alright. Yeah. You
mentioned you build a g a GPT.So talk talk to me about AI in
content creation.
Where do you see it going in thefuture, impacting the industry?

Yeah. Better. Yeah. I think a lot of it is junk. You
need to curate it in a in a veryreal way, and it takes work
especially for these differentchat bots to get them to do
things that you want.
It's a lot of refine, refine,refine, refine, refine, refine,
like, it just doesn't stop. Butif you're in a pinch, you just
need some filler logo or somefiller whatever to to be an

(49:06):
article graphic on LinkedIn, AIsolves that problem. Like, it is
it is very convenient at times.So if it's not like a major
investment, it does fill theneed, but it's kinda junk food
is is really where I see it.It's like it's it's a it's a
dollar bag of hers at thecounter.
So I I do get it. I think it'sincredibly valuable when you use

(49:26):
it properly. God knows whereit's gonna go. But, yeah, I
mean, it's a useful tool. Youjust gotta figure out what those
very specific things are becausethere's so many different
versions of it now, and it'seasy to get lost in.
Yeah. So without getting suckedinto it, I think is also equally
a struggle because everybodywants to be in that game.

Yeah. Yeah. I I, I I feel like I I tell I tell
myself often, hey. You know,this is like any technology.
It's gonna take jobs.
It's gonna make but it's gonnamake our lives easier in a way.
Right? And then I see this shitthat's, like, computer you know,
AI generated video, andsomeone's talking. And it's,
like, wow. That's that's that'swild.
Right? I do think, like, somestock video sites are probably

(50:06):
gonna be, you know, a littleworried. But I think, you know,
I feel like what we do is, like,capturing real people, capturing
authentic stories, you know,journalism in a way. Like, I
feel like that's always gonna berelevant. Documentary type work.
Like, you know, there's gonna bea time and a place where AI
stock video, stuff like that,but, I don't know. I'm not I'm

(50:28):
not I'm I'm optimistic on it, Iguess.

Yeah. I mean, it's it's craftsmanship. Right? I
think the people that are, like,true masters of an art form, you
you're always gonna stick aroundbecause you get it. And it's
just the the AI and and whatevertools are out there are just
ways to make your job easier.
And it's up to you to, like,quality control it or set the
parameters in a way that it itgenerates something that is
useful. So, like, yeah. Havingthose abilities because, like,

(50:51):
for us, you know, we're inpodcasting, and there's there's
AI editors out there. Thingsthat can mess with audio and
audio quality. There's thingsthat can just outright I I don't
know if I've, like I don't knowif the tool's fully live yet,
but there's stuff that you canpay for where it'll just chop
everything.
It'll be like speaker 1, speaker2, speaker 3.

Right.

Right. And and so it's like that that's out there
already. But is it doing it in away that feels right for the
flow of that show? You know,artistically, how is it? And
you're always gonna need thateye.
I think there's always value inif you wanna make something
great. So yeah. I mean, we'vetalked about AI a lot in
technology in general in thatway. Yeah. For us, yeah, we're
just confident in ourselves as,like, taste makers Yep.

(51:28):
Essentially. So it's notsomething that's ever gonna be a
problem for us. It's alwaysgonna be a benefit.

Yeah. What's your favorite social media
platform? I mean, is there onethat you're on a lot? You know?

None. I'm on I'm on Reddit, and I hate it because
Reddit has actually becomemostly bots. I like, everything
I read, it it just like, youknow, some of it is real posting
from actual people, but there'sother stuff where you read it.
And I've been on GPT enough thatI know when it's a GPT post.
Right?

Right.

Something in the language is just a certain way
where it's like, no. This thisstory written this way is not
right, or these comments don'tlike something about it is not
right. And so it's yeah. I Imean so I'm on Reddit a lot out
of habit. I don't like it.
I'm almost never on Instagram.If you DM me, it's gonna take me
a week to get back to you. Thatincludes my fiance. She loves

(52:16):
that. What else?
Yeah. I was on Twitter. My myprofile is a ghost at this
point. So I'm almost completelyremoved from social media. The
only thing that I use it for isquality of work.
Like, I know what it is topromote a business. You know? So
Yeah. Instagram is massivelyvaluable. So from that
standpoint, like, Instagram'sthe way to go.
I think for most people, it'spretty neutral. It can be

(52:38):
businessy. It can be verycasual. Your friends are on
there. Like, it's a good placeto start.
LinkedIn's got it it's valuable,but it's also really stale.
Like, everybody's posting in thesame way these days. So yeah. I
mean, a lot of social media, Idon't really like. That's not a
lightning round answer, but, youknow, it's that's how I feel.

Well, I think that's I think that's fair. And
yeah. I mean, you're probablybetter off understanding that
it's it is a tool for growingyour business. Right? But if
you're spending time scrollingand doing stuff, you can get,
you know, you can get lostpretty quick.

It's miserable. Yeah. I hate it. Yeah. I hate
it.

So, what I mean, what about, like, if I was a
small business owner looking athow to promote my business, you
know, what are some maybe 1, 2,3 things I I I would wanna focus
on first?

Start on Instagram and be consistent with it.
Right? Like, just just have anidea of what your message is,
get in the habit of posting allthe time if that's 3 days a
week. Real stories, pictures,whatever it might be. Just
figure out what is comfortablefor you and do something.
Right? And and believe in trialand error. For social media
posts, I think it's a littleeasier to do that. But it gives

(53:45):
you an opportunity to find yourvoice and see how people respond
to it. Find other people in yourcommunity, like, dedicating time
to following people that are inthe right niche and right
community is just as valuable asposting.
Right? Because you can findsomebody and see what they do
and go, oh, that's really great.And, like, you can shoot them a
message and connect or comment,and you build that relationship.
So, focus on engagement as muchas you're posting. And from

(54:08):
there, it's just yeah.
I mean, trust that it's gonnaget better and be actively
critical when you do it. Don'tbeat yourself up. But just think
of ways of how can I do thisbetter the next time? And if you
keep doing that, you'reinevitably gonna get infinitely
better than you were when youstarted.

Yeah. Yeah. So on your entrepreneurial journey,
I mean, you know, starting abusiness, there's headaches
every single day. Right? I mean,what advice would you have to,
someone starting a business or,you know, a business owner?
Any kind of entrepreneurialadvice that you might have?

So the key is to refuse to die, honestly. I was
thinking about this last night.One of the things for us is
we've me and Taylor have beenthrough a lot. I mean, we've
seen this business throughthrough the different kinds of
people and partnerships andleaving the other studio and
everything. We've seen a lot ofchange.
Everything I saw on radio, I sawa lot of change. And you have to
be absolutely relentless in theidea that you're going to make

(54:58):
it. Yeah. And if you're going toquit easily, if you embrace if
you see certain challenges andyou are likely to fold, you
don't even fight to try to solvethose things and build
workarounds and all that kind ofstuff, that is what most of this
is to start. Right?
It is how do I DIY this thing?How do I get this thing? And
even if it's not the way it'stotally intended to be used, how
can I use it in a way that'sgoing to be helpful for me right

(55:18):
now based on what my skill setis, what my time is, what what
kind of money I've got, whateverit might be? Like, you have to
be so resourceful. You have toalways be thinking of answers.
You don't have time to wallow inyour own shit. Like, you gotta
figure out how am I going tobuild this thing. And if you
don't have that mental toughnessto be the weight of everything,

(55:38):
then this isn't for you. Youknow? And that's okay.
Like, it's it's okay to try it.If you have that curiosity, go
try it. Live your dream. Like,go go build that thing. Yeah.
But, I mean, it fails for somany people or they hit a
certain level and kind of bottomout because they are not
relentless in the pursuit ofgreatness or or that vision.
Right? Like, I want passiveincome. I wanna be able to take

(56:01):
calls from a beach. I would've Iwanna be more or less retired by
the time I'm 5055.
Like, I wanna take projects as Isee it. Like, I've got a vision.
I've got a dream. I've got agoal. I give nights and weekends
and whatever.
Thinking about those things,I've done it for a long time,
and I don't get to anywhereclose to this if I'm not
absolutely relentless in thatbelief that I can be that kind

(56:23):
of successful. And without it, II wouldn't be anywhere. I mean,
I I've god knows where I'd be,honestly. Like, it's kind of a
miracle that I'm here. Yeah.
So I try to appreciate that.But, yeah. I mean, you have to
be emotionally willing to takesuch a beating and be relentless
in fighting to get through it. II think it is the number one

(56:45):
thing.

Yeah. Entrepreneurship is really I
don't know who said it. It's agame of attrition. Right? It's
like, if you can just outlast,like, your competition, you're
99 you know, you're you're inthe top 1% or something.
Right?

Yeah.

So it's it's a game of survival, but, yeah,
that's amazing. Last question.Yeah. What are, like, just just
some general predictions for ourindustry? Not marketing,
podcasting, what do you seehappening in the next 5 to 10

Yeah. I mean, it's it's so interesting because it
is such a time of change. Right?Like, all this technology has
come up. It's so easy to dothings on your own.
It's easier than it's ever beenwith AI and how this stuff goes.
Because, like, the videogeneration and stuff. Right? It
is really good. So to be able tosay, oh, well, I'm gonna take 50
pictures of myself, and I'mgonna load it into some sort of
bot.
And then I can get every oldnewsletter that I've ever

(57:34):
written, and it will just AIprint me doing those videos.
Like Yeah. That's comingprobably in development now.
Yeah. So thinking about thatkind of stuff and where it's
gonna go, I mean, the ability toit's almost like, you know, in
Power Rangers when they're onthe middle of the Megazord, and
it's just like these littlepeople inside this giant robot.

(57:55):
Like, you're gonna be one littleperson that can feel like this
giant robot because all of yourabilities with automation,
generation, everything else isgonna be so easy and so
streamlinable that it it'salmost gonna be you just, like,
hit the content button andeverything happens. So it's only
a matter of time for people tobuild up that backlog that

(58:15):
they'll be able to do it. Right.Like Right. And so I think
that's pretty much around thecorner.
And, otherwise, I mean, yeah,it's just gonna be there's gonna
be so much filler junk to wadethrough. I think the you know,
because you talk about it's likethe rule of 7. Right? So people
need to see your thing 7 timesbefore they buy or or they even
register you. And now it's gonnabe the law of, like, 45.
Right. Right. Right. Becauseyeah. I mean, everybody's

(58:37):
posting, and it it's not just,like, these business accounts
and the volume beyond that andthe brands that people are
trying to build, but, like, dogshave an Instagram account.
You know? Like, like, random andanimate objects. There's there's
just, like, so many things thatyou're competing with, and the
volume is so intense that atsome point, it's so crowded.
And, there might be a pivot. Imean, if anything, maybe it's a

(58:59):
real world pivot where it's,like, people are back to, you
know, it's a heavier focus onevents and experiences and
things like that because Yeah.
You know, the the digital spaceis so crowded and people like me
are are kind of fed up of livingin it. Like, looking at Reddit.
You know, the way I was Yeah. Iit drives me nuts. Like, I'd
rather just be somewhere and andsee it and talk to people.
Mhmm. So that's that's, I think,the other avenue of where it

(59:22):
goes.

Yep. Yep. Awesome. Well, I feel like this
was, like, a really goodconversation. I really enjoyed
this.
Anything else you wanna share?

Or Eagles preseason game tonight, big predictions?
No. I got

I got to be a whole another show. Yeah.

I'm retired from that life. No. This was great,
man. It was great to talk withyou. Yeah.
I appreciate you giving me thetime. It's been great to meet
you, have you here at thestudio. It's been really fun.

Yeah. Amazing. Where can, where can people
learn more about SBX, PhillyContent Club? What do you

Yeah. So if you wanna sign up for the
newsletter, Philly Content Clubdotcom. Otherwise, for anything
with us, s b x productions.com.So s b x like sandbox, s b x
productions.com. Got it.
And, people can set up a freemeeting. So if they're curious
about learning more about howthis could work for them and and
learn specifically about what wedo, pilot programs, things like

(01:00:15):
that, just like do an episodeand see, Yeah. You can set up a
free appointment, and you justdo it at the website.

Dane Shoemaker (01:00:21):
Sounds good. Well, thanks, Vince.

Vince Quinn (01:00:23):
Thank you, Dane.

Dane Shoemaker (01:00:24):
Yeah. Thank you, Taylor.

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