Australia Update 2: Time flies. And more flies.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Claire (00:02):
Hello and welcome back to The Silent Why from
Australia.

Chris (00:06):
Down under.

Claire (00:07):
Down under.
We are indeed.
And we are coming to you from aday that is 37 degrees.
And it's December.
First day of December.
Super weird.

Chris (00:19):
Really weird.
Really weird to be hangingwashing out on the 1st of
December and getting it in dryan hour later is bonkers.

Claire (00:27):
Yeah, you've just literally pulled some t-shirts
and they're bone dry.
It's just, yeah, it's amazing.
What a blessing Australia isfor washing.

Chris (00:36):
Who are we?

Claire (00:38):
Who are we?

Chris (00:39):
Oh, yeah, sorry.
Let's move things on at pace.

Claire (00:42):
Oh, right.

Chris (00:42):
Who are we?

Claire (00:43):
Who are we?
Oh yes, we haven't said who weare.
Sorry.
Yeah, we're Chris and Claire.
We are the hosts of The SilentWhy Podcast.
Normally we're talking aboutgrief and hope, and well, how
can you find hope in 101different types of grief?
But at the moment, we're inAustralia on a slightly longer
break.
So we're just sending you someupdates on how things are going.

(01:04):
And so far, we've done thiswill be the second.
This is update two fromAustralia.
And we've been here, it'll besix weeks this week that we've
been in Australia.

Chris (01:13):
So Wow, and we're entering the final week of our
time in Australia as well.

Claire (01:17):
We are sad times.
Yeah.
So we thought we'd start bytalking a bit about Australia,
because last time in the lastepisode, we had been in
Australia for a little while,but we'd also been in Singapore,
so we focused on Singapore andwhat that was like.
And now we've spent much longerin Australia and seen a lot
more of the West side of it.
So yeah, what do you think ofAustralia?
What have you noticed?

(01:38):
What's surprised you?
What do you think?

Chris (01:40):
Flies.
I think some of this is goingto repeat on what we said in the
last update, well, our firstupdate, uh, because some of it
has repeated what we've got.
Well, we've seen more flies.
We've seen more flies.
I've felt more flies in mymouth, in my eyes, in my ears.
Uh I think you read somewhere,didn't you, that it's been a
pretty bad year.

Claire (02:00):
Yeah, it's the worst year for 40 years for flies.
Something to do with they hadlike some wet seasons, I think,
before we arrived, which createsgreat conditions for fly
larvae, and so there's loads ofthem.
Apparently it's not as bad asit used to be in like the 70s,
but it's it's a pretty badseason for them.

Chris (02:15):
I hope our hosts don't listen to this because I think
to a degree it says just beingBritish, and I think if you
lived here you'd just get usedto it, or you'd have to get used
to it because it's just athing.
But yeah, the level we filmed avideo, didn't we?
I I recorded a video when I wasstanding outside the car at one
point, we're in the middle ofnowhere in baking heat, and uh

(02:36):
yeah, just turned the cameraonto selfie mode, pressed video
and record, and just filmed theflies sort of gathering around
my face.

Claire (02:45):
Oh, it's the face, that's the worst thing.
They land on like your nose andyour lips and your eyes and in
your ears, and yeah.

Chris (02:52):
We mentioned, didn't we, in the last episode that Tracy
had bought us, because they wereon a reduced thing from her
workplace, some fly nets that goover your hat and then cover
over your head and like a veiland you tighten them under your
neck, which which I said Ithought it was a joke.
I thought she was just like, ohho ho, you guys talking about
flies.
But we genuinely used them onthe North Trip, and it was

(03:13):
brilliant.
They were great.
I mean, you look ridiculous.
You can't you can't take anynice photos of yourselves at
these beauty spots becauseyou're just covered in this
black veil, like a beekeeper inshorts and the table.

Claire (03:23):
And you have to wear a hat with it, you can't just
stick it on your head.
You've got a whole hat,sunglasses, net.
In fact, one of the places Igot out of the car and I held up
the fly net.
I think I was talking to youand I said, Do you think we'll
need this?
And the guy behind me, who wasjust getting out of his Ute, was
oh just getting back in hisUte, I think, had been where we
were about to go, was like, Yes,you're gonna need that.
And we saw a few people with iton and I was so glad I took it

(03:43):
because they were everywhere.
So it's been good.

Chris (03:46):
So flies, that's been definitely a headline as well as
wind.
I don't think I was expectingexternal.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Thank you for qualifying.
Mostly it's not the giant wind.
Uh at times it's lovely.
In fact, where we're stayingnow is a place called
Scarborough.
We're about a half an hourdrive north of Fremantle, which
you may have heard of.
And there's something inFremantle that's called the

(04:07):
Fremantle Doctor, which is whatthey call the wind.
I think it's probably the seabreeze, which is quite often
really a welcome thing becauseit just helps the air feel a bit
fresher, a little bit cooler.
It's amazing how muchdifference that wind makes,
actually, because when it doesdisappear, then it does get
really hot really quickly.
But there have been times wherequite a few times where I've
experienced a lot of wind to thepoint that if I was being

(04:29):
really miserable, I'd say it canspoil an experience.
You can get to the mostbeautiful beach in the world.
But when you've just gotliterally gusts of very strong
wind, gale force wind, you know,even yesterday no, not the day
before yesterday, we drove downand looked at City Beach and
Floriat Beach here on the westcoast.
And there were people bravingthe sand, wasn't there?

(04:52):
A few people, because the beachis never busy in this place.
A few people that had put upwind shelters that were just
being absolutely pummeled by thewind, almost to the point like
a tent bl being blown over.
So yeah, I'd say at times itcan feel like the wind can spoil
an experience.
Um we've experienced a lot ofwind, external wind.

Claire (05:08):
And when you get to a lovely beach, we know from going
to lovely beaches in like Spainand places where there's less
wind, probably.
When you've got beautiful,clear water and there's no wind,
you can see everything asyou're walking around in the
water, it's lovely.
When there's a wind, it justbrings all those ripples and
waves, and you can't see stuffas well.
So we've sort of seen someamazing wildlife in the water,

(05:29):
but it's like, oh, if only thewind would die down, we could
see it a little bit better.
I was gonna say the only goodthing about the wind is that it
kind of minimizes the flies, butI don't think it did, did it?
I think we still had flies.

Chris (05:38):
It just hit you harder.

Claire (05:39):
Yeah.
They're looking for cover.

Chris (05:42):
They're blown into your face.

Claire (05:44):
Yeah.

Chris (05:45):
One one throw into my mouth.
I think I was filling up withfuel filling station.
I had one got my nose.
And uh just blown into mymouth.

Claire (05:54):
Thank goodness they don't bite.
If they were bitey flies thatwere landing on you, I mean that
would be pretty horrendous.
But um yeah.

Chris (06:02):
Well, part two of the fly thing is that there is bitey
flies as well.
Not as in like horse flies, butthey are mosquitoes that uh and
I'm quite obsessive aboutmosquitoes, it might tap into
any sort of tendencies I have onthe spectrum of flyy things
that uh you know I'm taking lotsof precautions around the
places that we live.
I love actually that a lot ofthe properties have did we

(06:24):
mention the last update aboutlike the fly screen?

Claire (06:27):
Mesh doors.

Chris (06:27):
So it's very rare to be somewhere that doesn't have on
doorways or windows uh a seconddoorway or window panel that's
just mesh.
Yeah.
So you can have your doorsopen, your windows open with
mesh.
Uh that's brilliant.
Love that.
Um, but still, you know, if youopen a door, I think, like the
place we're staying now, youopen the front door, it creates
a bit of a vacuum.
If there's any uh anythingflying around outside that door

(06:51):
in the shade, that gets suckedinto the house.
So then as I see the door open,I see just something waft over
my head, I'm like, oh no.
Then begins the adventure.

Claire (06:58):
I say oh no, because I know you're distracted for the
next three hours trying to findit.

Chris (07:02):
Exactly.
Or if I don't find it, whichhappens often, I then have to
wait, set a trap in the evening.
It's not really a trap, it'sjust my attention, and then try
and find this thing again.
Because well, we have beenbitten many times.

Claire (07:13):
We have had quite a few bites.
I do seem to like our skin morethan the locals by the sounds
of it.

Chris (07:18):
We made the mistake of you cutting my hair outside.
I took my t-shirt off, and itwas fine.
I thought it was like morning,wasn't it?
Late morning.
Yeah.
But then the next day you werelike, What are all these bites
on your back?
But they weren't itchy things,but they were just little bikes
bumps all over my back.

Claire (07:38):
No, like the mesh doors, these houses are like now we're
sat in the lounge of an Airbnbthat we're staying in, and it's
like I said in the last time,they're all like one-story
buildings mostly around here, soit's like a sort of a bungalow
setup, as we would call it.
And I haven't got the air conon because of the noise for
recordings.
I thought I'd turn that off.
But these houses are built forthis like environment.

(08:01):
So it's 37 degrees outside.
If we step outside the door,like Chris said this morning,
step outside because the air ishot, and it is, it's thick,
really hot air.
But I I feel like socomfortable.
Like this is such a nicetemperature indoors, and we
haven't even got the air con on.
So I'm just I'm loving that,and I I do want to highlight
again for those people who livein hot countries, that this is

(08:24):
not what we have in the UK.
So when we hear, you know, wemight peak at 35, 36
occasionally in the UK, quiterare, but we can get it for a
couple of days.
But we don't have any air con.
Our houses are not built likethis, so they heat up really
quickly, and it's souncomfortable.
It's humid, it's horrible.
Whereas everywhere here, it'sjust built for outdoor life and

(08:47):
hot weather, and it's just a joyto be in, to be honest,
compared to our country when itgets hot.
So I am enjoying that.
I don't worry, if they said itwas gonna be 56 tomorrow, I'd be
like, oh, that's bad.
But you just stay inside an earcon.
Like it's not a big deal.
I know that they have a lot offires and there's a lot of
environmental stuff that is, youknow, does really struggle with
the heat and stuff, butday-to-day living out here in

(09:08):
the heat, it's lovely to be in acountry that is just equipped
for it.
Whereas I feel like ourcountry, we're not equipped for
the cold and we're not equippedfor the heat, and it just feels
uncomfortable 50% of the time.
But yeah, I am liking how thesehouses are built, you know,
they've got the mesh to stop thebugs getting in, they're nice
and cool inside.

Chris (09:24):
It's just they do have air conditioning if you need it.
They do, yeah.
Most of them do.
Or ceiling fans.
Or fans.
Fans are great.

Claire (09:31):
We should have more fans in the UK.

Chris (09:33):
Of the podcast.

Claire (09:35):
That'd be nice.
No, just general, on theceiling.

Chris (09:40):
Yeah, okay.
Um and I don't think in sevenweeks, I don't think I've worn a
pair of trousers.
I have to clarify that.
Long trousers.
I've worn shorts.
But I don't think I've worn mylegs covered, which for me is
really unusual.
I'm I like wearing shorts, butI'm very well most often in
trousers, even on hot days.

Claire (10:00):
I cannot say the same.

Chris (10:01):
So yeah.

Claire (10:02):
I think 50% of my time here in the local area we've
been in, I've been shufflingaround indoors in very nice big
baggy jeans that are justcomfortable, so I can't say the
same thing.
But um we did bring coats withus, thin coats, in case we
needed them, and we haven'ttouched them once.
Maximum we've had is a hoodieon when it's been a bit cold.
But yeah, it's been it's beennice actually, temperature wise.

(10:22):
I think we've we've done well.
It's not been we've had somewindy and some cloudy and some
grey days, but when you'relooking at like 20 degrees
alongside that, it doesn't feelas bad as it does back in the
back.

Chris (10:34):
Not at all.
And when you've got a longperiod of time away, as we've
had.
Yeah, you don't worry about theweather.
The occasional day of grey andclarity doesn't matter so much.
When you've got a a week away.
Yeah, like in Britain, ifpeople escape from work for a
week away and they just getthree or four days of bad
weather, it has a massive impacton that week, doesn't it?

Claire (10:49):
That's true.

Chris (10:50):
Uh wildlife would be the other thing that'd probably
stand out.
Yeah.
It's just been the wildlife,but not just the wildlife, the
wildlife where you don't expectit.
I think where you expect thewildlife, and I think back to
previous trips that we've doneover the decades where we've had
the joy of looking at placeslike California, some of the
national parks around there,Nevada, Utah, uh, Canada as

(11:11):
well.
The wildlife you see is trulyin the wild, and you get away in
the middle of mountains, parks,whatever it may be, and if you
spot a giant elk or a tarantula,it's like wow, and it's not too
hard to spot.
Not too hard to spot.
Bears and things like that.
Bears.
Yeah, if you know where you'regoing or you do a boat trip,
that sort of thing.

(11:32):
The wildlife for me that we'veenjoyed the most, I think, is
being around like suburbia.
Housing developments, likegarden birds that we've
absolutely loved, the birds thatyou get flying over, and
nothing like our garden birds inthe UK.
These are colourful.
They're mixtures of galars andcorallas.

Claire (11:51):
28.

Chris (11:52):
28, yeah, the American ringneck, Australian ringnecks,
rather.
So garden birds are wonderful.
And then even things likekangaroos, we've seen most
kangaroos around tanks, haven'twe?

Claire (12:02):
Yeah.

Chris (12:03):
Uh and then it surprises me when we go away away.
So we'll talk a bit about thetrip that we did north, up the
west coast, into northwestAustralia.
That you're in the middle ofnowhere, and you've got all
these road signs for pictures ofechidnas and kangaroos.
Uh don't see anything, do you?
Occasionally goats.

Claire (12:21):
We saw goats, very unexpectedly, we saw goats.
No one has ever mentioned goatsat all, and we pulled into a
roadhouse and there were goatseverywhere.
I'm like, what are these?
Oh, they're just wild.
Okay, well, no one mentionedthose.
Didn't even see any signs forthem.

Chris (12:33):
No, no, they don't even get their own signs out here.
But all the things that do getsigns you don't generally see.

Claire (12:39):
We didn't think there were signs, but on the way back
I remember there's a sign forcows, loads of signs for cows,
even though they seem to bebehind fences.
And then there was what Ithought was a calf next to it,
because you drive past them, youdon't really look at it in
detail, but then I realised itwas actually a cow and a goat.
So there is the occasional goatsign, it just looks like it's a
calf on the cow sign.
I'm with you.
But we didn't see any of themon the way up, and I certainly
wasn't expecting to see thesegoats with the massive horns as

(13:01):
well, like quite impressivegoats.

Chris (13:03):
Yeah, yeah, impressive goats.
So that surprised me that whereI expected to see more
wildlife, you see nothing.

Claire (13:10):
Well we saw quite we saw quite a lot of dead kangaroos
on the side of the roads.

Chris (13:15):
We did, but that was only in one particular area, because
you had commented before thatthat we'd done thousands of
kilometres and not even seenroadkill.
Whereas even in Britain, I meanthink the the trip that we did
south down to the Margaret Riverarea, all that woodland, all
that area, didn't see anythingon the all that driving, we
didn't see anything on theroads.

Claire (13:33):
We saw one field of kangaroos in it.
But that's about it, yeah.
There's nothing else.

Chris (13:37):
And then going up north, I was thinking you've you might
see some birds, but not thatmuch bird life.

Claire (13:43):
Occasional bird of prey, but quite rare.

Chris (13:45):
Hundreds of kilometres you do in a journey and see very
little wildlife.
So that surprised me.
And I think as well, thewildlife that we do have around
is that I've also uh I've moved,I've transferred my indoor
obsessiveness about things likemosquitoes into outdoor checking
of chairs and things, or evenunder toilet seats.

Claire (14:04):
Oh yes.
So for weeks when we were inMandra, Chris has been trying to
find some sort of spider in thegarden that might be deadly.
Or the redback.
Or anything.
Oh okay, so specifically theredback.

Chris (14:16):
Yeah, it's quite they're quite common.

Claire (14:17):
It's quite a venomous.

Chris (14:19):
Well it can be fatal to the vulnerable, you know, to a
child, to a vulnerable olderperson.

Claire (14:24):
So you've been searching for ages, you never found one.
But then we moved into thisAirbnb.

Chris (14:30):
First day.

Claire (14:32):
Day one.
You're brushing down thechairs.

Chris (14:35):
I noticed quite a few webs underneath the chairs on
this little patio area that I'mlooking at that's behind you at
the moment.
And uh I was brushing them downand out plopped a spider onto
the floor, and I was like,hello! Hello, you've got a
redback.
Uh and then I sent the owner apicture of it.
Not to say you've got deadlyspiders in the place we've just

(14:55):
rented, but just to check thatthis is is this a redback?
More out of excitement.
And she said, Yeah, it is, it'sbeautiful.
Not like uh, I think somepictures of redbacks you see are
really jet black, like thefemale redbacks I think can be
jet black with quite a vivid redstreak on the abdomen.
This was slightly more mottledbrown and black, not huge, um,

(15:16):
but yeah, they can they can packa dose of toxic venom.
If if you were to, I don'tknow, sit on one uh and it have
exposed skin, I guess like onthe leg.

Claire (15:27):
Everything's sort of quite a small spider-wise.
I've seen a few spiders,haven't we?
I was thinking yesterday, like,what is it like if you're over
on the other coast and you'vegot huntsmen's running around,
which are not dangerous in anyway, but just massive.
I was thinking like to walkinto a bathroom or any room and
just on the wall there's like amassive spider.
Yeah, and I've seen people saythey're not gonna hurt you, but

(15:48):
they can give you quite a shock.
I was like, oh my word, thatwould just, yeah, that'd be
quite frightening.
So I'm very glad we're not inan area where I've got to watch
out for anything massive.

Chris (15:54):
Particularly now we're of a certain age where getting
through the night without atleast one visit to the toilet is
a thing.

Claire (16:00):
I think that's more about being in a country where
you're constantly drinking lotsof water.

Chris (16:04):
I have become very conscious about putting
flip-flops on as I walk acrossour Airbnb accommodation to the
toilet just in case I mightstand on something.
Oh, scorpions.

Claire (16:14):
I just walk barefoot.

Chris (16:15):
The place we're staying in Mandra again, Dave and
Tracy's place, they've they'vehad scorpions inside.
They're not scorpions aren'tparticularly dangerous.
I think if they were to stingyou with their tail, it'd be
like a bee sting.
But still, I don't want tostand on one in the middle of
the night while I'm desperatefor the loo.
Uh so yeah, they're probablysome of my main takeaways.

Claire (16:34):
For me, I think uh yeah, a lot of what you said
obviously, but just interestingto see the people.
So I'm always fascinated by thedifference in people and
cultures, and like I said, theoutdoor life.
We keep commenting a lot on howthis whole country is built to
be outdoors.
They've got loads of play areasthat have all got shade over
them, they've got places you cansit, they've all got shade over
them.
Everything is built becausethey know it's hot and they're

(16:56):
just aware of that, and that'sreally interesting.
So I've really been interestedin stuff like that.
So that's been one thing I'vebeen noting, but also just yeah,
the people.
So swearing is a bigger thingout here than I've noticed in
the UK.
Uh, I can't believe the amountof people I'm speaking to, just
even like yesterday in one ofthe market store things, we were
chatting to this guy about thehistory of something, and just

(17:19):
like the just dropping the fbomb every four or five words
every now and then.
I'm like, I'm just not used tothis.
Um I know that obviouslythere's a lot of people that
swear in England, but if you'rein shops and chatting to people
that you don't know, that'sreally not something that
happens very often.
I wouldn't speak to someone ina shop usually and and people
would be swearing.
Um, and just people you chatto, people we've come across

(17:42):
hosts, you know, people thatwe've met of friends of other
people, it's just natural, it'sjust in their language a lot
more.
And I didn't realise that was athing, so that's really
interesting.
Um and then of on language,just the amount of words that
are different to what we have.
In the last episode, Imentioned that ports were
suitcases and that the jug wasthe kettle.

(18:04):
We had to replace a light bulbin our Airbnb, and the host
asked me if it was a good timeto pick up the light globe.
I had no idea what she wastalking about, so that's
obviously another thing.

Chris (18:15):
And things like thongs.
I can't remember if wementioned that one in the last
episode, but thongs forflip-flops.

Claire (18:20):
Yeah, nevertheless.

Chris (18:20):
It takes a bit of getting used to.

Claire (18:22):
Um thongs are a very different thing for us in the
UK.
It's actually a completelydifferent word for us.
So that's weird.

Chris (18:27):
And a lot of shortening of words.
They they love to shorten theword.
I remember somebody saying acouple of weeks back that
Australians can be very lazypeople.
I wonder if that slips into thelanguage that they, you know,
why say sandwich when you cansay Sanger?

Claire (18:40):
Sanger.
Yeah, that was a new one.
Avo.

Chris (18:43):
Yeah, avocado, that's too long.
Sanger.

Claire (18:46):
And they have this way of like speaking that I don't
know, to me, sounds a littlethis is gonna sound really
insulting to the Australians.
It sounds a bit like you'dspeak to kids.
So they like shorten things sothey have like crisps, like we
would have crisps and chips.
Crisps are like a bag of crispsthat you pull out potato
things, and then chips arepotato chips like fries, and

(19:09):
they're separate, very differentthings.
They have chips, which meansboth.
So I said to them, Well, howwould you differentiate if you
said you want a sandwich withchips?
How would you differentiatebetween the bag of crisps and
the hot chips?
And they're like, they justlooked at me blankly, like,
well, we don't know if we needto.
So they have these, but thenthey don't just call them chips,
they call them chippies.
Chippies, which is what I wouldhave thought you'd say with you

(19:31):
know, with a child, like whenyou're learning language and you
make it.
But then we've found there'sloads of them.
So like I saw something on TVtoday and they were referring to
a guy in a flannel shirt andshe called it a flanny.
There's Tasmania nearby, whichthey call Tazzy.

Chris (19:46):
Like Aussi.

Claire (19:47):
Yeah, and then we realised like Australia, they're
called Aussies.
Then there was like there'sDunny, which people know about,
which is quite a common one fortoilet.
I don't know if that shortensanything.

Chris (19:56):
Rashy for the rash vest.
Yeah.
That we've learnt about.
There's that very famous one.
Barbie.

Claire (20:02):
Barbie.

Chris (20:03):
Even we use that, but again, I'm gonna I'm gonna add
it to this list of Australian Ewords.

Claire (20:07):
I think if you use it, you always use it with an
Australian accent in England,because it's like chuck another
shrimp on the Barbie.

Chris (20:11):
While you're drinking a tinny.

Claire (20:12):
Yeah, I didn't know that one.
That was in front of me.
And then they chuck a Yui.

Chris (20:17):
Chuck a Yui.
Go back.

Claire (20:19):
They stick E, and I've heard I can't even remember
them, but I've heard a few morein conversation with people
where it's like, it just seemsreally odd.
It's like another language ofjust taking something and adding
E on the end and I thinkcertainly certainly chippies.

Chris (20:33):
Chippies.
You see that written on a likea chalkboard from a cafe.

Claire (20:37):
Yeah, so that's something that has surprised me
and fascinated me, just howdifferent English languages.
We know, you know, we we'rewe're quite close to America,
aren't we?
So we know a lot of likeAmerican spelling is very
different for ours.
We know a lot of the Americanlanguage because it's in all our
sitcoms and TVs, but we don'tsee so much of Australia on our
TVs and stuff, not for like thegeneral slang and we used to,

(20:57):
back in the nineties.

Chris (20:59):
So yeah, when neighbors and home and away on TV were a
much bigger deal, and uh I wasgrowing up, that was probably my
m your stage generation.
That was massive in the earlynineties.

Claire (21:09):
But now I don't hear much about I mean I listen to
some podcasts that are done byAustralians and stuff.
But the other thing wasalcohol.
Alcohol over here seems to be ait feels like going back a bit
in the UK.
So we've had a long historywith alcohol, I think, in the UK
that's bad.
So a lot of alcohol is drunk inEurope or on the continent

(21:30):
stuff, but it tends to be wine,they have it with a lot of
meals, they have it from a veryyoung age, and they don't tend
to do the whole binge thing likewe do.
It tends it's part of theirculture, they appreciate it, but
they don't overdo it.
I mean, just generalising therewill be people who do overdo
it, but on the whole, it's a bigdeal.
You're offered wine a lot ifyou go to France or something.
And in England, we've had moreof this binge drinking culture,

(21:54):
which has got us a very bad repin many other countries because
of our staggering Hindus that goaway and just overdo it and
then embarrass our country.
But I think we're coming out ofthat a little bit, and I'm
hearing now that the the teensand those that are coming
through in the next generationare actually turning a bit more
away from alcohol, it's actuallybecoming okay just to not
drink, and we have got a lot ofoptions in our country now for

(22:15):
non-alcoholic beers and winesand gins, all kinds of stuff.
Um, so I think we've sort ofturned changing the tide a
little bit on that.
But over here, I feel like it'sstill like it was for us a
while back.
So I was really surprised tosee adverts trying to convince
people not to drink duringpregnancy.
That doesn't feel likesomething I've seen in the UK

(22:37):
for a very long time.

Chris (22:38):
That feels like it's very, very well known.

Claire (22:42):
And if you choose to do it, then that's a very personal
choice, but you're well aware ofthe risks and everything.
I feel like even if you'venever been pregnant, that's
something that's very wellknown.
But over here it does seem tobe a bit more advertising
towards trying not to get peopleto drink at certain points, I
guess, driving when you'repregnant.
Pushing that message stuff,yeah, really pushing it, which
is interesting.
I just thought about it, but Ihadn't seen it much.

(23:05):
And then they've got those umlike the the alcohol places
where you So the alcohol isn'tsold in supermarkets here, which
is really interesting to us,because in our country you buy
alcohol at the supermarketpretty much any time it's open.
Over here, you there are thereisn't any alcohol in
supermarkets, but there's alwaysan alcohol place sort of
attached to the supermarket, soyou go into a separate area to

(23:26):
pay and buy for it, buy it.
But then they've also got thesedrive-throughs where you just
drive in and load the back ofyour car with alcohol and then
drive out again, which you'dnever see in the UK.
So that's again quite adifferent kind of approach to
alcohol.
You'd have thought that becausethey don't sell it in the
supermarkets, maybe they'd drinkless of it.
But I don't know, justdifferent.

Chris (23:47):
It's very different.
I wonder whether, becauseyou've mentioned the coarse
language, let's be very poshabout this, and the alcohol.
I wonder whether there's like abig cultural collective middle
finger to the past.
Because we learnt yesterday ina tour of Fremantle Prison.

Claire (24:05):
Oh yes, I know what you're gonna say.

Chris (24:06):
Which closed down in 1991 as a prison, and there's still
it's still a really interestingtourist attraction.
Uh that in the female wing,which was much smaller than the
male wing.

Claire (24:16):
Like 50 to 80 females.
Well, I think there's a lotlike eight up to 1800 men, so
massive difference.

Chris (24:21):
And those naughty women could be locked up for obscene
language and drunken behaviour.

Claire (24:27):
Being drunk.
I mean, there were a lot ofother things on their list as
well, but they were as small asit could get for being locked
up.
Yeah, so maybe there's been arebellion.

Chris (24:34):
Big rebellion.

Claire (24:35):
Like, no, we're not having this.

Chris (24:37):
We're free.

Claire (24:37):
We're free to drink as much and swear as much as we
want to now.
And we shall.
Yeah, we shall.
It's really interesting hownatural it is here and how how
different it can I think wherewe are, it it always feels a
little bit confrontational whensomeone swears.
I think.
There's always a little bit ofa alright, okay.
Like, what are you gettingworked up about?

(24:58):
Like it feels like it's thenext level of people, and that's
not the case here at all.
It's just part of the language.
So, yeah, really interesting toexperience that and just see
how how different it is.
Anyway, yeah, that's Australia.
You mentioned we went on anorth trip.
So last time we did ourepisode, we just done on a south
trip for five days.
We went down to um MargaretRiver area, and then when we got
back from that, we had aboutthree days back in Mandra, and

(25:19):
then we went on a north trip,which took us from Mandra right
up to Exmouth, which was the toppoint we went to.

Chris (25:28):
Exmouth, as they call it here.

Claire (25:29):
Oh, Exmouth, sorry.
Not like the Devonshire.
I know there's so many placesin England that are over here.
Um, and then and that was wedid a total of 3,400 kilometres
going up and back, and it tookus 10 days.
So, yeah, what do you think ofthe more northwest side of
Western Australia?

Chris (25:47):
It's weird even talking about going doing a north trip,
because it's all within WesternAustralia, which we've learned
is the biggest state inAustralia.
And when you see it on a map,it's huge, Western Australia,
but there's just vast amounts ofnothingness.
And so we did a north trip upthe coast to X-Ma.
I mean, that was just thedrive, I guess the driving was
interesting, was memorablebecause we covered so many

(26:09):
kilometres of nothingness.
It's such a slow, slow pace.

Claire (26:13):
Yeah, it really doesn't feel like it should.
The road actually, when we ifyou fly ever fly from Singapore
to Perth, you'll see the westcoast of Australia and you'll
see all the beautiful kind ofedging and the beaches and the
coast, and you'll see red sortof land, and then you'll see one
road.
And I remember pointing it outto you and saying, I wonder if
that's the road we're gonna beon when we go north, and I'm

(26:34):
pretty sure it was because itfollows the coast, kind of, and
it's just one long singlecarriageway road where the
maximum speeds it's about 100.
110 kilometres an hour.

Chris (26:48):
So what's that in uh 70 miles an hour?

Claire (26:51):
So that I mean that is the maximum in the UK that we
could do, but on a road thatlong and straight, even that
feels very slow.

Chris (26:57):
Yeah, I mean it might be less than 70, it might be 60
something.
Let me look it up while we'retalking.
Yes, it's single carriage way,you said, but it's they're quite
large roads.
Oh, yeah.
So it's not like you're you'repassing vehicles at speed that
feel very close to you.
Yeah, they're still prettywide.

Claire (27:11):
It's wide, and obviously both sides of you, you've got
miles and miles and miles andmiles of nothing.
Yeah.
Or maybe the sea.
So that it feels very wide andvery easy driving.
I mean, it's a bit like whenyou do some of the open roads in
America, just very big, open,very easy, just straight line
driving.

Chris (27:28):
Yeah.
Uh 110 kilometres is sixtyeight miles.

Claire (27:33):
That's probably why it feels a little slow then.

Chris (27:35):
110 kilometres per hour is 68 miles per hour.
So it does feel slow, and I'dsticking to those speed limits
as well.
Uh is quite a thing that you'requite serious about road
safety.
But we've been on three, we'vebeen on four lane motorways
around Perth, and they drop downto 80 kilometres an hour,
kilometres per hour.

Claire (27:55):
Yeah, it might even be less.
I think I've seen some 70.

Chris (27:58):
70, which is 43 miles per hour that we used to 80 is 50.
That feels really weird.
You're doing 50 miles per hour,and it just feels so slow,
you've got so many miles tocover.
There's very little to see.
I'm quite surprised at howboring I found the land
landscape.
I know Dave would say to us,there's always something to see.
Uh, and that's true, there'salways shrubs.

(28:18):
Grass trees.

Claire (28:21):
We learn a lot about the trees and the bushes because
they change.
And and the interesting thingis because they have a lot of
fires here, a lot of what you'relooking at is just charred but
growing back.
So it's black stem trees withgreen on top, or you can see the
grass growing back.
So it's sort of interestingfrom that perspective.
But I mean, when you've done anhour, two hours, three hours,
four hours of it, it becomes alittle monotonous.

Chris (28:42):
We did a I was driving for a stretch up to a town
called Carnarvon, and I rememberthinking, gosh, these roads are
straight.
I'm gonna start counting on thewhat'd you call it, tripometer,
milometer, the length of thisstraight.
And I did it, and I got up to24 kilometres.
So 24 kilometres, which thoughtit was ridiculous.

(29:03):
That's like 16 miles ofstraight road.
And then there was a bend.
A tiny bend.
Two slight bends.
I thought, oh, okay, I'm gonnastop that.
So I'll start again and thenstart again and beat that record
just and got like 25kilometers.
The previous one was like 24.7,and I was like, wow, that's
ridiculous.
And then there was again a bendor two small bends, and then

(29:26):
did another stretch thinking I'mgonna start counting again.
And you know when you look intothe distance that you can just
see like horizon with nothing onit above the road that you're
heading into.
So you know this is going to bea straight road, and then you
get over that horizon and justsee the same again, just
straight road, nothing on thehorizon above the road, no trees
or anything, so you know it'sgonna be straight.
And then that third one, it wasthirty five kilometres.

(29:49):
So, in total, what's thatthirty five, twenty five,
twenty?
That's like seventy, eightykilometres.
With a couple of bends in.
Yeah, it's great.
And straight road driving.
I mean, thank goodness forcruise control.
But it was pretty dull.
And so the roads were yeah slowand long.

Claire (30:05):
And the worst thing about that is it's sort of
interesting at the beginning,like, oh, you know, this is
Australia out back, and thenthree, four days in, it's like,
oh, this is Australia out backagain.
And then the worst thing is youknow that you've got to come
back the same frickin' roadbecause there's no other road.
So you go north one way andyou're like, oh my word, that
like 10 hours or whatever it wasin total, we've got to do that

(30:25):
again to get back south.
So, yeah, I don't want to bedown in Australia, but this is
why there's things along the waythat have become actual tourist
attractions on Google.
This shows you how howmonotonous the roads can be.
One of them, so there's loadsof termite mounds in one area,
which are really interesting,like probably six, seven, eight,
ten feet tall termite mounds.

(30:46):
And we stopped by the road forone of them to have our photos
taken with it.
But somebody has painted one ofthose as like a minion.
Bright yellow with the red andthe trousers and everything.
That is a stopping point on theway, it's actually on the map.
And another one is a tree thatloads of people have thrown
shoes into.

Chris (31:03):
The shoey tree.

Claire (31:04):
The shoey tree, and that is also a stopping point.
You could make anything aGoogle stopping point on that
road because there's justnothing else to do with the
road.

Chris (31:10):
Generally you can't stop stuff.

Claire (31:12):
No, you can't.

Chris (31:13):
You might find the roadhouse.

Claire (31:14):
Even those, when you get to the roadhouse, you have no
idea what you're going to begetting into.
So it could be a long droptoilet with no water or gel.
It could be uh I mean there'salways flies.
It could be like a kind of acafe type situation.

Chris (31:28):
With goats outside.

Claire (31:29):
Goats outside.
And that can be a bit they'realright, but they could be a bit
ropey.
Um, it's so hot because you'rein the middle of nowhere and
you're going north, it just getshotter, so it's so intense in
the heat.
If you want to stop at a picnictable, you might find one with
a shade over it at a roadhouse,but again, it's probably covered
in flies, and you're better offin the car with the aircom

(31:50):
running, to be honest.
It's just yeah, I mean it'sreally interesting.
I'm so pleased we did it.
Fascinating to see.
But yeah, there's a lot ofdriving.
But the good thing at the endof it were the beaches.
We were heading up there partlyfor the coast.
Well, there's not much else tosee in land, I don't think.
Um, and they did notdisappoint.
The beach some of the beachesup there have been ranked in the

(32:10):
top sort of ten at some pointand then top 50 in the world.
So absolutely stunning beaches,and in classic Australia style,
there's no people on them.
They're just we're justfascinated by the amount of
beaches we've been to wherethere's just like if it was a
beach in England, it would beheaving because it's so
beautiful and the weather is solovely.
But these are just empty.

(32:31):
So we saw um oh we saw so many.
We went to Coral Bay, yeah.
Turquoise beach, Turquoise Bay.
Turquoise Bay.
Uh Shell Beach.

Chris (32:42):
Shell Beach.

Claire (32:43):
Monkey Meyer.

Chris (32:44):
Yeah.

Claire (32:45):
Um and then the Sharp Bay area, all these amazing
beaches with loads of amazingsea life as well.
Absolutely stunning white sand,beautiful colour sea.
Um, really empty, very remotethough.
You can pull into thesebeaches, and you again you don't
know if there's going to beanywhere to sit or any shade.
There might be a toilet, theremight not be, might not be any

(33:06):
people there.
It's a sort of um yeah, it's aninteresting experience because
for us in Europe, if you go toan amazing beach, chances are
there's a lovely hotel nearby,there's toilets, there's
changing rooms, there's a bar,there's a cafe, you've got all
this behind it because there's alot of people there, and it's a
very different experience.
So to be on a beach like thatand just be looking around
thinking, how is there like sixpeople on this beach?
It's just mad.

(33:26):
But then it is so remote andhard to get to, it kind of makes
sense.

Chris (33:30):
Generally, I think on the wider theme of what we've seen
in Western Australia, beachesare functional.
So elsewhere that we've foundin Europe where the sun's not as
intense, where the UV's not asextreme, where the wildlife is
not as dangerous, and there'sjust stuff around you to get you
everywhere.
So where it's where it's lessof that in England or in
mainland Europe, you could spendthe day at the beach.

(33:51):
You could just pack up yourstuff, go to the beach and spend
the day there, and lie out inthe sun, maybe take a shade,
swim, sunbathe, read, swim,sunbathe.
That sort of you can't do thathere.
The sun is very strong, sort offiercely strong.
So it's like, yeah, cover up ifyou're on the beach, factor 50,
if you've got skin exposed,rashies, long sleeves, if you're

(34:14):
going in the water, hats, coverup.
So yeah, the beaches here, ifit's not the weather that's
going to get you, if it's notthe flies that gets you when
you're on the land, when you getinto the water, it's not just
riptides, it's not just sharks.
There's things like Irikanji.

Claire (34:29):
Well, that's that's the other thing with these, yeah,
these beaches up north, theyhave irakange, which are tiny
one centimetre.
It's relatively dangerous.

Chris (34:36):
Literally you're talking if you get stung by an irakange,
it's you need to be flown.
Because again, where we went,it's very remote.
A lot of the medical help willbe by plane, so there's this
whole flying doctor services.

Claire (34:47):
Which clap about it's a jellyfish.

Chris (34:49):
Oh, yeah, jellyfish, irakange.
Look 'em up online.
And uh really dangerous, butthere's also stonefish which you
might stand on, which areincredibly toxic.

Claire (35:00):
And they don't necessarily kill you, but the
pain can be so bad it can giveyou a heart attack that does
kill you.
So that's fun.

Chris (35:06):
So there's warnings about those things.
There's like it's like youcan't go you can't relax at the
beach.
Yeah.
For those of us that don't livea beach culture, we go to the
beach to relax.
And here it feels like you youdon't go to the beach to relax,
you go to do something.

Claire (35:22):
Or get in the sea and hope you don't get anything
coming out.

Chris (35:24):
And then go home.
Or get get changed at thebeach, swim, get changed, and
then go home.
Well, it's a different culturefish.

Claire (35:30):
It's a different culture because like 80% of Australians
or whatever live near thecoast, the beach is just always
there, the sun is always there.
It's a pretty much a given.
Every year you will get niceweather and a beach.
So it's not something you gofor a day trip, probably,
because it's always there.
Whereas for us, you get onenice day of weather and it's
like, ah quick, this is our onlychance to go to the beach and
enjoy it.
So it is a big deal.

(35:50):
Um, and again, it's just thatkind of everyone lives near a
beach.
It's a weird thing to thinkabout, but that is pretty much,
unless you're living right inthe centre of Australia, which
is pretty hardcore, everyoneelse is is near a coast.
So it's it's weird andfascinating that you're you're
just moving round the coast tosee all these places that have
been been built up, and yeah,you've you've got to be careful

(36:12):
with these northern beachesbecause they're miles from any
help.
So if you do get stung bysomething that you need help
with.
We did learn the Shark Bayshuffle, which is a thing you're
supposed to do on beaches wherethere's a chance of stonefish
being around, and you just don'tbasically lift your feet, you
kind of shuffle in the sand, andthen you're more likely to kick
it in the face than you are tostand on it and get stung by it.

(36:32):
But but I mean it I don't thinkit's not none of this has
stopped us doing anything, butyou just have it in the back of
your mind.

Chris (36:38):
Yeah, it does just play on your mind.
Yeah, particularly if you'renot familiar with it.
Yeah.
It's just like, okay, am Igonna be okay here?

Claire (36:45):
And we do seem to be the most overdressed people in any
of the sea.

Chris (36:49):
Yeah, you know, we're not we're not sexy British swimmers
with our tanned bodies, youknow, wearing fully burning.

Claire (37:00):
And they're all in this swimwear.
And we were told, like, youknow, get your rashi, and I've
got like this pair of swimmingshorts that you wear.
I mean, they're short, they'renot like really long or
anything, but you know, longsleeves, hats.
Hats.
I almost wanted to take theumbrella in the sea and you
wouldn't let me because it wasso hot.

Chris (37:14):
It was a step too far.

Claire (37:15):
I was my sk I could feel my skin burning.
I mean, I have quite sensitiveskin, so that's a little bit I
do need to be a bit morecareful, but I am surprised at
the amount of people that arejust sunbathing.
I was trying to tell umsomebody out here about what
it's like in in Europe, in likeSpain and stuff.
I was saying to her, you couldprobably put factor 20, 25 on,
30 maybe, all day and be out inthe sun sunbathing in a bikini

(37:40):
or whatever, all day and notburn.
It's just not anywhere near asintense as it is here.
It's a very different, you needthat factor, but you can
comfortably sit in it all day.
You couldn't do that here, itwould be way too intense.

Chris (37:54):
And me, uh the opposite end of the scale to you, I tan
quite easily.
I don't generally have problemswith burning.
Not here, but I uh you know Iquite like being in the sun.
But here I've been using factor50.
Even five, six weeks into thistrip where I've had a lot of sun
exposure, so I am tanned, andjust sitting here the day before
yesterday, I sat outsidereading in the sun sh it was the

(38:17):
morning or was it towards themiddle of the day?
Was it strong?
It wasn't the hottest day.
No, but I noticed later thatday that I had red lines where I
rolled my shirt sleeves uptowards my shoulders, and I
thought, you know, even I'mgetting red potential, sort of
heading towards burning in justhalf an hour on pretty tan skin
with sun cream on.

Claire (38:37):
And interestingly, they might be out here, but as a
tourist that's just come out,watched a bit of TV, walked
around the malls and stuff, Ihaven't seen anything talking
about skin cancer.
Whereas in our country, I feellike it's quite a big message.

Chris (38:49):
Just it's because they're putting all the money into
alcohol when you're pregnant.
There's no one at a time publichealth messaging funding.

Claire (38:56):
So I don't know.
I mean, I heard someone saythey've got very high rates of
skin cancer.
It wouldn't surprise me becauseyou're living under such UV all
the time.
But um, yeah, it's yeah, it'sjust really interesting because
it's just so different fromhome.
So yeah, anyway, we've come offour north trip onto skin cancer
somehow.

Chris (39:11):
Beautiful, beautiful beaches.
It's made me realise many timeshow what you see, and this taps
into a much wider thing,doesn't it, around social media.
What you see in a 2D image onyour phone or in a magazine
about where you're heading tellspart of the story, doesn't it?
What you what you see might beone thing, but what you're
feeling might be completelydifferent.

Claire (39:31):
It never gives you a full.
I think in the last episode wementioned about how you can have
this beautiful photo of abeautiful beach, but you're
getting covered in flies whileyou're taking it.

Chris (39:39):
Exactly.
You just don't know what'sgoing on.
There's a photographer that'scovered in flies and terrified
of that will make you feelbetter for the places you can't
go to.

Claire (39:55):
But one thing that we did uh get a lovely array of up
there was wildlife again, and wesaw we saw a shark.
We were sat by a beach watchingthe sunset, and about I don't
know, 15 feet into the water,quite shallow, we saw a fin and
um a tail fin just kind ofmoving around in the water.

(40:16):
It can't have been more thanabout three, four feet maybe
quite a smallish little shark,but we definitely saw that
moving around.
So we did see a shark.

Chris (40:23):
Well, we saw that from that eagle bluff from a big
distance, we saw them swimmingaround, yeah.
That was a very high elevatedpoint looking down into a bay.
There was no beach area.

Claire (40:33):
That was that was stunning, yeah.

Chris (40:34):
We saw the we saw the outlines of a number of sharks.
They were I think there they'reknown for.
I think they've got lemonsharks and nervous sharks.
I've never heard of them, butthose two varieties.

Claire (40:43):
We we went to Monkey Meyer, um, which is famous, it's
just one resort, really, an RACkind of resort that you can
stay at.
We didn't stay at the resort,we went in, and um it's famous
for its dolphin feeding.
Um so um it's like you go likereally early in the morning,
like 7:30, and they do two orthree dolphin feedings before

(41:05):
midday, and you can stand in thewater ankle deep, and the
dolphins come in really shallowup to the woman that's feeding
them.
That was really cool.
So we saw dolphins there, andthen we went on a boat trip from
Monkey Maya, and we saw umDugons.
Well, we saw the back of aDugon.
She surprised she described itas looking for a brown sausage
that was moving around in thewater.
I think that's the equivalentof what I saw.

(41:26):
I didn't really see much morethan the back of a big brown
sausage.
Uh Ospreys, the dolphins,obviously, more dolphins,
turtles.
Uh we saw rays swimming aroundin the sea at Coral Bay.
That was quite cool.
Uh we saw pelicans and we wentto a pelican feeding that
happens every morning at CalBarry National Park.
There's a place there on theedge.

(41:47):
They've been feeding them thereevery day for like I think 50
years or something.

Chris (41:50):
Started with a fisherman, didn't it?

Claire (41:51):
Yeah, something like that.
8 45 in the morning.
Went there and we had loads ofthose turn up, so that was
really cool.
We've seen bin chickenseverywhere.
The Ibis, they're brilliant.
I still really like them.
They pop up wherever we went.
Um, some emus um kind ofplodding around in Denham near
our accommodation.
And we went to an aquarium,which where we saw loads of
things up close, which wasreally cool, um, just outside

(42:13):
Denham, which was like thingslike the lionfish, which is
fascinating, sea snakes, sharks,stonefish.
We actually got to see what astonefish looked like.
Ugly.
Um so that was really cool.
So we had loads of wildlife,and then we had one of our most
amazing wildlife experiences, Ithink, was um one night
mid-trip, we were in Cowbarry,and there was a brewery that

(42:33):
Chris wanted to go and see, ofcourse, because if there's a
brewery nearby, we try and goand see it for Chris.
And um we went to have a drinkthere, and Chris had a you
called them a paddle, so likefive little beers that you can
try and stuff.
So he'd had a good good amountof beer, and um as we came out
and were walking back, it wasdark, and there was like these

(42:53):
street lights, and under thestreet lights were sort of three
or four kangaroos in a littlefield, and we had seen the
kangaroos on the way in in afield just nearby.
Uh, and we stopped to take apicture of it, but then two of
them just literally sort of wentpast us on the pavement and
made this amazing it was justlike really quiet, and they made
this amazing sound of just likeas they jumped past us on the

(43:18):
sand.
It was really cool.
If anyone wants to see thevideo, message me on Instagram
and I'll send it to you becauseit's really sweet.
Um, and that was a realhighlight, I think.

Chris (43:26):
Just like you said, it'd been a really long walking
around suburbia and a lot ofdriving, and there's a kangaroo,
and we'd found this reallylovely outdoor lifestyle brewery
that some great beers gotbitten on the way to it by a
mosquito on my hand that hadstarted itching instantly.
Uh, and then uh yeah, as wewere leaving there, I was

(43:46):
probably a little bit gigglybecause I'd had some strong
beers, which I was really readyfor.
And then to see those littlekangaroos bouncing, bouncing in
the sand.
But very sweet.

Claire (43:57):
I just I still can't get over the anatomy of a kangaroo
and how it moves, how it usesthe tail and the massive feet
and well I didn't realise therewere so many animals out here
that have pouches.
It's a lot.
How many things have we seen?
We went we went to a zoo and umwell a wildlife park really,
and yeah, we just kept lookingat oh it's another one, it's
another one, it's another one,it's got a pouch.
Yeah.

(44:18):
Loads of them.

Chris (44:18):
Kangaroos, quakers, koalas, Tasmanian devils.
All all have pouches, all rareyoung.
And you mention Cavisham,Wildlife Park, that we went to a
couple of days back.
Uh not not wildlife, clearlyit's all captive some mostly
captive stuff, but uh brilliantin terms of hands-on, up-close
experiences with some of theAustraliana that we've loved

(44:41):
seeing.

Claire (44:42):
Yeah, I got a bit frustrated that there's a whole
bunch of stuff that we want tosee in Australia, ideally in the
wild, that we have not managedto see, and we're trying to and
we're we're recognising now it'snot gonna happen.
So one of them was the echidna,which I think is almost
nocturnal, so very difficult tosee.

Chris (44:56):
Nodes of road sign pictures of echidna.

Claire (44:59):
Didn't see any.
Nothing.
For those who have no idea whatthat is, it's a spiky looking
big hedgehog with a very long,thin nose.
Also the frog mouth, tawnyfrogmouth, which is an bird,
looks a bit like an owl, it'snot an owl.
I saw one of these at awildlife park in England and was
obsessed with the idea ofseeing one in the wild here
because they are actually nativeto here.
It's the one of the bestlooking birds.

(45:21):
I just think it's so funny.
It if you imagine a bird that'ssort of short and squat and
blends in with the background oflike brown trees and stumps, it
looks like half a branch, butit it's got this look on its
face, like it just is just soabove the world, but also
judging you and also likecompletely fed up with life.

Chris (45:42):
It's just got this a big wide downturn mouth.

Claire (45:46):
Big downturn mouth.
It's just brilliant.
We saw a bird display, andthey'd got an amazing cookaburra
at the front on a stand.
They had an owl with its bigblack eyes, and they had a barn
owl, and at the back, just onits own, on a ladder, slightly
hidden, they'd put the frogmouth, and it was just sat there
like I am not impressed.

Chris (46:05):
Like it said to the zookeeper, what were they
called?
The one put me at the back.

Claire (46:09):
Yeah.

Chris (46:10):
If I go anywhere, put me at the back.

Claire (46:11):
Don't put me near the front.
It was just on its own, it'sbrilliant.
I just I just love them.
Yeah, but incredibly difficultto see in the wild.
They are so well camouflaged.
So we saw one of those atCabisham, so that was exciting
and fun to see that.
Um, and the other thing that wesaw that I didn't have on my
list to see because they're notaround here in the wild at all,
and I hadn't really thoughtabout them much, were wombats.

(46:33):
But we were very taken by thewombats.

Chris (46:36):
They were just You were more taken than I couldn't
really see the point of themrather than just looking like
giant bundles of fat.
Furry fat.

Claire (46:45):
It's just the coolest looking So like for an extra ten
dollars we didn't do this, butyou could pay to sit next to a
zookeeper that was holding one.
But she held it like it sheheld it round the middle with
its arms hanging like oh frontits front arms hanging over her
arm sort of thing and its head,and then there's just big bottom

(47:06):
that just hangs down.
It's the weirdest photo.
You mostly got kind of bottomin the photo to be honest, but
it there was just somethingabout these creatures that were
just I don't know, just funnyagain.
I love how they kind of bumblearound and yeah, I mean they
look like you said this would bea great thing for like me to
cuddle in bed instead of my hotwater bottle.

(47:27):
It would be the perfect cuddlebuddy if you want something warm
if you've got a tummy ache andyou just want to hold something
that's soft and big and firm.
No long limbs, no big nose,it's just all so yeah, I was
very, very enamoured by thewombats.
Yeah, and they just look sofriendly.

Chris (47:43):
What is the point of them?
I don't know.
What do they do in the wild?

Claire (47:46):
What's the point of any animal?
But yeah, they're very fun.
And then we had something veryspecial that we did at
Caversham.
I had mixed feelings aboutthis, so I know that when you
come to Australia, one of thethings that a lot of people want
to do and do is hold a koala.
And before I came out, Istarted looking into that a
little bit.
Koalas aren't native to thewestern side of Australia, so
you'd never see them in the wildhere.

(48:07):
I wasn't even sure if we'd seeany, but we did get told they
had them at Cavisham WildlifePark, and they've got them quite
a few zoos and things.
Um, but when I was researchingit, there was a lot of negative
press around the whole holding akoala thing, and people were
saying, European, you know, theygo over and they do it, they
shouldn't do it, it's bad, it'slike it's bad for the koalas,
it's bad for this, blah blah.
And I was like, oh no, I don'twant to contribute to something

(48:29):
that's really bad, blah blahblah.
Anyway, I got here, and um andwe went to Cabersham, and for an
extra $35, about 18 pounds, youcould hold a koala.
And uh I must admit, all myresearch went out the window,
and uh I was just like I reallywant to do this, and we had to
get there at 9am to get a ticketbecause they only allow so many

(48:50):
people to do it and it sellsout really quickly.
We were we were already we gotthere at quarter past nine and
we were 26 and 27, 27 and 28 onthe list to hold, so we were
already part way through thelist of um of people and you
couldn't do it like Chriscouldn't watch if I went to do
it.
They do it like separately, soChris ended up paying to do it

(49:11):
as well, which I really wantedhim to do anyway, because I knew
he'd love hot.
Who doesn't want to hold akoala?
Um but what I love aboutCavisham is that they have
there's a massive wall and photoof all their koalas and a whole
area you can look at them, andthey have was it 78?
78 koalas.
So they have this thing free ofcharge, part of your ticket.

(49:32):
You can go and stand next to akoala that's on a branch eating
something, and they'll take aphoto of you, and then the next
person comes in and does it, andthey do that uh every day, and
that's free of charge with yourticket.
So we did that, but we alsowanted to do the whole let's
hold one.
But because they've got so manykoalas, they're swapping them
out like a lot, reallyregularly.
We saw them swapped out severaltimes just in about 10 minutes.

(49:55):
Um so because they've got somany, they haven't got like one
koala, where some places mighthave one or two koalas, and then
those poor koalas are having tobe held every day like
constantly.
They only do this for like 45minutes um twice a day, and they
use maybe four or five koalasand they swap them out for that.
So the koalas are not actuallybeing held that often because

(50:16):
there's so many of them, so it'sa nice setup.
So I'd recommend if you're inWestern Australia and you want
to do that.
This feels like a place that'sreally doing it wisely and
looking after them.
Um, but we did do that, andthat was very cool.
And they don't smell, I wastold they smell awful and it's
like really smelling.
I didn't smell a thing, andthis koala like literally
breathed in my mouth at onepoint because it was sniffing me
to find out who I was.

(50:37):
Um, but yeah, and it justclings onto you.
It's like uh imagine a childthat just clings onto you, it
immediately clings.
It's just the coolest, like abig teddy bear.

Chris (50:48):
Well, we had growing up.
Do you remember what if youwent to the zoo as a child?
They often sold those sort ofpencil holders, and you'd like
pinch the shoulder blades ofwhatever animal and its arms
would clamp.
Yeah.
And then you could clamp themonto a pen or a pencil or
something else.
Uh that's the sort of thingwhere I think you'd probably
have koalas that you could justpinch the shoulder.

(51:08):
It was like that, wasn't it?
It was like having a a lifeliving version of one of those
that it just clamps onto you.
Yeah, it was so sweet, it wasreally nice.
Um, and then you sort of holdit like I guess you see people
holding chimpanzees on the tellyor even babies, I guess, where
you just kind of sits on yourhips.
It was oh it was so lovely.

(51:28):
And then to get some reallyhappy photos of us was very
memorable.

Claire (51:32):
Yeah, really nice.
It was a nice memory, it wassomething really enjoyable, and
I really believe you know,animals are there to be enjoyed
so long as they're being lookedafter and well treated.
And I do think I know a lot ofpeople get quite down on zoos, I
think it depends what countryyou come from, because some zoos
are bad.
Um, but we come from a countrywhere we've got a lot of good
zoos that are doing a lot ofconservation work, a lot of help

(51:55):
to keep creatures alive, stopthem getting extinct, trying to
breed things that aren'tbreeding.
Um, you know, I think withoutzoos we'd have lost a lot more
species, so I'm very proanything that's trying to do it.
Education as well.

Chris (52:12):
Uh it's so good for young and old to be able to
experience them and to go awayreally inspired by what you've
seen.
I think is incredible.

Claire (52:20):
Definitely.
And you know if an animal'sbeing treated badly on the
whole, you know, we've been tosome bad zoos.
If you see the animals pacingconstantly or they're not
relaxing or they're notbreeding, that's always a bad
sign.
But I think in places wherethey're they're breeding that
rapidly and they're happy, youknow, animals don't do that if
they're in an environment thatdoesn't seem safe.
So yeah, really good.
Really enjoyed that, and we gotto see loads of stuff on our

(52:41):
list that we didn't think we'dsee, which is good.
And one of the cool thingsthey've got there is you can
just go in and feed thekangaroos.
They've got loads of kangaroos,and you just get a handful of
food, and then you just feedthem, and all these kangaroos
come up to you and take thefood.
So that was cool because in thewild, kangaroos can be pretty
scary looking.

Chris (52:56):
I would say that was particularly the case because we
were there early, so that waslike the first thing we did.
So I'm guessing the kangaroosat that point were like, oh
great, someone's got their handin the nut barrel.

Claire (53:06):
Because we passed in the afternoon and the kangaroos
were always like, you know howthey lie sideways in a really
cool kind of photo pose?
They were all just lying likethat, and people were going up
to them with food and they hadno interest at all.
So I think, yeah, we did that.
Uh doing that earlier was areally good, good call because
we got to actually feed them.
And there was one type ofkangaroo there that had a really
pointy face.

Chris (53:25):
It was a wallaby.

Claire (53:27):
No, was it a wallaby?

Chris (53:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Claire (53:28):
Well, I think it jumped up on my leg.

Chris (53:30):
Yes, yeah, it was a type of wallaby.
I can't remember what type itwas.

Claire (53:33):
Very pointy looking, more like a big rat type face.
Well, initially I was like,what the frick is this?
I didn't know what it was.

Chris (53:40):
So we had a really enjoyable day there.

Claire (53:42):
Um that was uh down where we are now.
That wasn't on the north trip,that was more local to where we
are at the moment, so that'sjust down the road, not far from
Perth, which is good.
One other thing we did do whilewe were up north that was
really good was the stargazing.
That was something we had onour list quite early on.
We've always wanted to seestars in a place big night sky.
Yeah, where there's not muchlight, and that's quite hard to

(54:04):
do in England.
Yeah, we booked a stargazingexperience which was up in
Exmouth.

Chris (54:11):
It was Exmouth, it was a particular park that we had to
drive into and pay to go intothis national park.

Claire (54:17):
Something like million-up Discovery Centre,
something like that.
Lovely husband and wife anddaughter team that are running
these from England, actually.
From England, yeah.
Uh that have been out herequite a long time now, but run
it.
Uh certain times of year wewere towards the end of the ones
they were running before theygo down south for two months,
because it can get up to 50degrees in Exmouth in the
summer, so that doesn't soundvery pleasant.

(54:38):
But um, yeah, it was amazing.
Lots of lots of stars.
It's actually rate rated bortleone, which is new language to
me.
Um, but that's sort of how theyrank how dark the how dark it
is there for you to see thestars, and bortle one I think is
the top rating of like the themost darkest places on Earth.

Chris (54:59):
You're just making me think of the good place on
Netflix.

Claire (55:01):
Why?

Chris (55:02):
Bortals Oh bortals But anyway, it was a very dark sky.
And but the thing thatsurprised me about it this might
be well known to me, I'd I'dnever thought about it, there
was no moon.
No moon.
And I said to him, I said, canI ask a simple question?
I said, Where's the moon?
And he went, Oh, that's theother side of the horizon.
It's down it's night time.

Claire (55:21):
It's below the horizon.

Chris (55:22):
He said, That's no, it's like the other side of the
earth.

Claire (55:24):
Oh, was it?

Chris (55:25):
Yeah.
He said that's in a differentplace now, so you won't see it
during the night.

Claire (55:28):
Oh.
Yeah, and there were no nightswith the moon for weeks.
He said it would be back earlyDecember, and it is back now.
It was actually back lateNovember, I think.

Chris (55:35):
But quite a few times we've commented on seeing the
moon during the day, which Ijust thought was about the sun
strength.
No, it's just the time of yearwhere the moon's up during the
day and you can see it becausethe sun's so strong.
So I I don't know why I've justhad this understanding that you
see the moon wherever you areevery night.
The moon is there unless it'sblocked by cloud.

Claire (55:55):
I know it wasn't there every night, because I can't
always find it in our house, butI didn't I've never known quite
how it works.
He did say you get a verydifferent experience stargazing
when the moon's there.
For starters, the moon isamazing to look at through
telescopes, but secondly,because it creates so much
light, you can't see a lot moreof the stars.
So I think I was quite glad insome ways the moon wasn't there,
although I would love to haveseen it through his telescope.

(56:15):
They had like these bigtelescopes, and we had one per
group of people.
So Chris and I had one.
The couple that we were withhad their own one, and there was
another group of three that hadtheir own telescope.
And we saw Saturn with therings around it, very, very
small, but we saw that, and alsoeverything is upside down here.
So Orion, which we see quiteclearly from England, probably

(56:36):
because it's the only one we canidentify.
Orion's upside down, and themoon is upside down, so I'm
quite keen.
It's currently like becomingfull, but it's like moved from
like a quarter to half, andwe're not there yet.
But when it gets full, I wantus to get a photo of it because
you've taken some lovely photosof the moon in England, and it
will be upside down here.
So I want to get a photo hereto compare.

(56:57):
Um upside down.
And for those that listen,you'll know that I am a big fan
of the moon and did a blog thatyou can listen to or read called
uh My Friend the Moon.
Um because yeah, I just thinkthe moon's a lovely kind of
character for those of us whofind life a bit tricky
sometimes.
He's just yeah, he's prettycool.
So I'm hoping to get a photo ofhim when it's uh yeah, when

(57:19):
it's full of so I can see himupside down.

Chris (57:22):
Yeah, uh it's a really dark sky helped by having no
moon and just m millions ofstars, billions of stars.

Claire (57:29):
It's actually as impressive with the naked eye as
it was for the telescope, Ithink, wasn't it?

Chris (57:33):
Yeah, I could have done without a telescope, just
pointing out what I'm looking atwith the the eye, because the
telescope for me, being a bitsort of glass half empty, I
could just see more twinklythings through the telescope.
And I take my eye away from thetelescope and I can see lots of
twinkly things.
So it's not like you suddenlysee a planet really close
filling the lens, you just seelots more dots.

(57:54):
So, yeah, I'd have been just ashappy having someone pointing
out what we're looking at.
But I think the one thing thatdid amaze me, and again, because
when we do see a night sky inEngland, even if it's clear day,
you'll quite often have thincloud that might drift in.
So I did say, look, what's thiscloudiness that I can see up in
the sky?
Is that cloud that's justcoming in from the sea?
And he said, No, that'scelestial cloud.

(58:15):
So that's like, oh okay, sothat genuinely is.
It's a really clear there's nocloud cloud, but you could just
see like the milkiness of theMilky Way.
So he pointed that out.
You could see this sort ofwhite cloudiness that's he said
that's celestial cloud.

Claire (58:29):
And it was really interesting how they did it
because so when you arrive, it'spitch black and you have to
sort of find your way to theit's in a car park that you're
doing it really.
But he was saying that whitelight, so anything from phones
or cameras or anything affectsyour night vision for like up to
20 to 30 minutes.
It takes you well, it takes you20 to 30 minutes to reset to
get your night vision, which isa different kind of vision, but

(58:50):
it takes time for us, we don'tget it instantly.
So when you look at a whitelight, you have to wait for it
to kind of reset.
So there's no white light onanything they're doing, they
don't recommend you look atphones, cameras, or anything
like that, but they have got redlights everywhere.
So he had a red light torch,there were red lights on the
telescopes, and red lightdoesn't affect affect your night
vision.
So if you want to go out andabout and not affect your night

(59:11):
vision, then you need a redtorch, not a white torch.
I think this is really goodadvice for anyone who gets up in
the night and doesn't want tokeep blinding themselves with a
white light.
Just get yourself a little redlight to to put on.
But also he had um he had thisreally cool laser that you
actually have to have a licence,I think he said to have, and it
was bright green and it couldshoot for up to three
kilometres, but he just liketurned it on and just could like

(59:34):
point at and highlight stars.
So he'd just point at a starand draw a circle around it, be
like, this star here is this,this bit over here is this, this
whole area here is this.
And I was just I was as takenwith the laser.

Chris (59:46):
It was pretty cool.

Claire (59:46):
It's really cool.

Chris (59:47):
It's like a massive lightsaber.
Yeah.
Really long, thin lightsaber.

Claire (59:50):
And his daughter had to kind of tell him if she spotted
a plane coming because he had tobe careful.
That's why you have to have alicense for it.
You can um you can affect likePlanes and stuff.
So he said you have to bereally careful because if he
shoots it at any of the militarystuff that's coming in,
sometimes um there's a fear thatthey'll shoot back.

Chris (01:00:09):
Their own lasers.

Claire (01:00:10):
Um so yeah, that was really cool.
That was good.

Chris (01:00:19):
Well worth doing.
Uh that was really, really goodto do.
Anyway, we must move on.
This is a long update.
Yes.
Do you want to talk about us?
Us, how are we?
How are we?
How is Claire?
How is Chris?
Because I'm particularlyconscious that we've spent now
well, not right now, becausewe're we're now living on our
own, have been here for three orfour nights, but before that we
lived with Dave and Tracy forfour and a half weeks.

(01:00:39):
And so for you as an introvert,coming from someone who is used
to every day being you on yourown in the house until I get
home from work, uh yeah, how areyou doing with that?

Claire (01:00:49):
In some ways better than I I would have thought if
someone had told me that wasgoing to be the situation.
Um but in other ways, uhdefinitely notice if I'm
suddenly in silence somewhere orat a quieter point, there's
something in me that'slike 'cause yeah, there's just
it's just intense, isn't it?
It's intense.

Chris (01:01:10):
Like an unclenching.

Claire (01:01:11):
Anyway, yeah.
But as an introvert, whenyou're just not used to being
with people every day for longportions of the day, um, yeah,
it can be hard and you don'twant to be like you don't want
it to make you like ratty orkind of off because of it, but
it can very easily get to thatstage because you just need a
bit more space on your own andstuff.

(01:01:31):
So yeah, I think on the wholeit's it's been okay, but as soon
as we got here and stayed inour Airbnb, the two of us, like
I can just I relish in just thethe silence of just being one
other person around and yeah, uhthat's it.
And yeah, so it's it's been umit's been a mix, I think.
It has been intense.
We've never we've never spentthat much time with anyone else

(01:01:54):
ever, pretty much in ourmarriage.

Chris (01:01:56):
No, we were talking about that a couple of weeks back,
weren't we?
That this since we got married,this has been the longest time
we've lived with others in asort of shared living space.

Claire (01:02:06):
I mean we did live with your parents when we first got
married for a while, but beyondthat, yeah, there's been no
other That was 20 years ago.

Chris (01:02:12):
Yeah.
Uh longer than that.
Uh and then for me the otherside of things, and Yula felt
the same but in a different way.
And for me, I'm an extrovert,so I'm quite opposite to you,
and I d my batteries can berecharged by being around
groups, being around activityand busyness.
So that that for me was a loteasier.
But what I do find hard, andYula found hard for different

(01:02:33):
reasons, is uh working that outin a marriage.
So, how do I care for you whenI know you need and long for
solitude and quiet and just thetwo of us?
That's quite hard to manage inthe same way that you're pushing
yourself beyond comfort levelsin order to be sociable, to be
in that group setting, no doubt,for the sake of your husband,

(01:02:56):
so your husband can enjoyextrovert activity.

Claire (01:02:59):
Yeah, but also you not getting to the point of feeling
like you need to fix it and sortit if you can't, and then
getting frustrated with thesituation because that doesn't
help anybody.
Yeah.
So it's a sort of a yeah, it'sa both way thing.
How have you felt?
Because even extroverts needtheir own time.
It's not like an extrovert canbe with somebody all day, every
day and be fine.

Chris (01:03:19):
Yeah, and that side of things I've not wrestled with
too much.
I think what what has been achallenge for us and is taking
more conversation, perhaps, thanwe were expecting.
No, I don't know, we alwaysexpect to we always like going
deep.
We've talked about that manytimes, how we go on holiday and
we go deep into stuff.
We didn't have thatopportunity, I think, so we're

(01:03:42):
we're continually having tochange and manage expectations
of what this trip is.
I'm sure you'll have your ownthoughts on that.
I think for me, even this time,having lived with Dave and
Tracy for four and a half weeksand then moving into this Airbnb
for ten nights.
I think on the one hand, Isuddenly thought, okay, let's go
wild.
This is our time, let's go out,let's explore.

(01:04:05):
Um, really fortunate to haveDave and Tracy's Ute, so we've
got their car, so we can go out.
So I sort of come thinking,okay, let's go and just be very
selfish in what we're gonna doin our own time, our own
thoughts.
We'll eat when we want, we'llsee what we want, we'll visit
where we want, let's go.
Whereas your side of thingswould be more like, let's stop.

(01:04:27):
We've got that time now to bestill, to be quiet.
Uh, and I found that's probablybeen the hardest thing for me
to try and recognise, and thatsent me into considering even to
the point of consideringchildlessness, of when things
are not quite as you would wantthem to be, when there are

(01:04:47):
difficult things to difficultbits of work to do, the lack of
distractions that we have has isquite hard for me.
Um and I think that's one ofthe biggest things that
childlessness does, that itremoves distractions from your
adult life.
Uh as I compare our lives withfriends' lives, that no matter

(01:05:08):
how they're doing or feeling, nomatter how well or unwell they
are, they have to get on withstuff for the sake of the kids,
whether that's school orentertainment, whether that's
activity, eating, all of thatsort of stuff can be quite
dominated by the distraction ofthe children.
Uh not having that means thatsuddenly, yeah, when we come

(01:05:29):
away as a two for ten days onour own, suddenly it's okay,
we're on our own.
And there's nothing to distractme from unwanted feeling.
So I've been doing a lot ofthinking and wandering around,
just processing my own emotions.
Uh, and yeah, I mean you'veprobably got stuff you could

(01:05:49):
talk into about expectations andmanaging those.

Claire (01:05:52):
Yeah, I think like we said before, it's it's been a
trip that's had to keepchanging, and um we've had to
sort of think about what do youwant to do, what do you want to
see, do we fit this in?
Sometimes at the expense ofmaybe just chilling out and
spending time here and um yeah,it's been a constant back and
forth, I think, with compromise,because there's been four

(01:06:12):
people involved, so also it'strying to work out what
everybody would like to do allthe time.
You can't be selfish aboutthings, which like you said,
when you get this time just thetwo of us, we could then be be a
bit more selfish perhaps andjust decide to do something
without having to factor inother people's needs.
Um but yeah, I do th and I dothink like the first day we had

(01:06:32):
when I was just like, I justneed some time to be, just to
not be constantly doing stuffand be busy.
I do think that probably sentyou into a bit of a funk.
But not because we'd stopped,just because you had to confront
some stuff that you were facingand feeling and going through.
And I think your default mightbe to distract yourself and to

(01:06:53):
do stuff and to be busy.
I think at the end of the dayyou feel good, it's like I've
done something, tick, that'sgone well, I've achieved
something.
Whereas I don't know whetherwhen you don't have that, you do
have to sit and think aboutthings, and I don't think we
always want to do that.
Um there's some stuff I couldsit and think about that I
probably don't want to sit andthink about, but probably
should.
Um but I think when I allowspace, I just find myself

(01:07:14):
thinking more about you knowlife and what we're doing and
what the future might look like,what am I happy with, what am I
not happy with, what could Ichange, how could I change it?
I think it's all good stuffthat is easier to do here than
it is once we get back home.
So I'm quite keen to createspace for that and just allow
that to happen.
But um yeah, I mean I think thechildless thing is something

(01:07:34):
that's just always gonna be it'salways gonna be there.
No or not many experiences arenot tainted by it in in some
way, shape or form.
I think whether it's watchingkids enjoy animals or even when
we were holding the koala, Iremember thinking to myself, oh

(01:07:56):
this feels really special.
Like I'm I love that this thingis just holding on to me and
wants to be here right now, andit's so small and minute, but I
just thought if this was achild, like most people would
take that for granted.
Most parents who've got atoddler that wants to hold on to
them are seeing it as probablya bit of a pain, annoying.

(01:08:16):
Why can't you walk?
Like, you're too hot, you'retoo big for this.
There's come a point where it'sjust a pain, but there would
have been early times when thatchild held on to them for the
first time when it would havebeen a really special moment.
So I just think of things likethat, and I just think, oh yeah,
I've never had anything really.
I mean I've held friends'children's before, but that's
not the same because they wanttheir mum most of the time.
Um I've never had that, I'venever had something that wants

(01:08:39):
to be with me, or you know, welearn all this stuff about
animals, and it's so interestingand exciting, and there's no
one to pass that on to.
There's nobody there that I cansay I can share that keenness
with and educate them about thatand help them, you know, be
respectful of nature.
I see so many parents that justseem to just encourage kids to
just do whatever, like you know,push to the front of the cube,

(01:09:01):
make sure you get seen, makesure you get this, or you bang
on that glass to see if it'llcome to you, you know, all this
kind of stuff.
I'd love to have taught kidsabout nature in general and
animals and how to do thatrespectfully.
Um even how you like when wewent to the pelican feeding, we
got there 15-20 minutes early,and there were benches, and we

(01:09:22):
got a real nice bench, so we gota really good view of the
pelican feeding, and thevolunteer arrive and she's
talking to us about the pelicansand she's building up to the
feeding, and then like 10minutes into it, this woman just
lets her two kids just likepush right in front of me up
against the barrier.
So I'm sat down, so thischild's my head height, so it's
completely blocked my view,blocked any photos I want to

(01:09:42):
take, and then when it came tothe feeding, they were just
crying out like me, me, me, Iwant to do it, I want to do it,
and then they did two lots ofthey had two lots of fish to
feed, and even stuff like that.
I'm just like everyone wouldsay to me, Well, that's the
priority, isn't it?
It's a child.
The child should get to see theanimal feeding up close, and
there's part of me that justfeels really bitter about that

(01:10:04):
because I kind of want to belike, No, I got here early for
this, move aside.
Like child, get get lost.
They weren't even polite, therewas nothing, and they were
talking, they arrived and theyjust started talking the whole
time in a different language, soI couldn't hear what she was
saying, and everything in me wasjust getting more and more
annoyed.
I just thought, if I had my ownkids, this wouldn't be
happening because my own kidswould be stood there.

(01:10:24):
I wouldn't mind that.
I'd want to help them see itand share the experience.
I'd tell them to shut upbecause other people are trying
to listen.
I wouldn't tell them to shoutfor the food two two or three
times.
I'd say let the other kids havesome, you know, you there's so
much stuff you sit there and youjust think, I want to I want to
be teaching somebody aboutkindness and about waiting and
about the fact that life is notall about you and politeness and
manners.
Yeah.

(01:10:44):
All the stuff I just would liketo have passed on or taught in
some way, shape, or form tocreate a lovely adult human just
won't ever happen.
And so even things like that,it just is constantly there's
something there that is like tpressing on a button of
something you can't do or you'renot part of, or that you have
to step back from because it'smore important for you know, all
that kind of stuff.

(01:11:04):
So I'm I'm still processingwhat does that look like for the
rest of my life?
How do you hold that tension ofeither feeling sad or
frustrated about a situation butnot wanting to be that way?

Chris (01:11:19):
Yeah, so do you think that's do you think there'll
ever be an endpoint to that, oris that just a that's uh ongoing
processing and I don't thinkthere'll be an endpoint to that
sort of sadness, but it didclarify for me, like with the
podcast.

Claire (01:11:31):
I often think about the podcast and I think, oh, you
know, I want people to learnabout grief, want them to know
what it feels like, and educategrief, but actually our main
listener the the hope was itwasn't really people learning
about grief.
We'd love that to happen, butlet's face it, not many people
want to learn about grief,they're not going through it.
Why would they?
The main I think audience forour podcast are those people who
just carry grief all the time,like there's a little bit of it

(01:11:54):
that will always be there, and Idon't mean like you know, your
healthy grieving where maybe youlose a parent and it's sad and
you grieve it for a few yearsand it will be there with you,
but it doesn't affect yourday-to-day life.
You know, it's just it's one ofthose things that happens and
it happens to everybody, whichwill be some people's experience
of grief.
But it's about the people whosomething happens, and it could

(01:12:15):
still be a parent, but it'sprobably more likely to be
something traumatic thathappened, or it happened early,
or they lost a child, or theylost a loved one to suicide, or
they lost a grandchild, orsomething happened that should
never have really happened inthe order of things how you'd
like them to be, and that is agrief that affects them every
day, and it won't ever fullyleave them to a degree because I

(01:12:39):
think that's our audience,people who've been through
something, and that could alsobe obviously not a bereavement,
could be loss of a career or anidentity, it could be loss of
health, all the stuff we dealwith, but it affects you every
day.

Chris (01:12:50):
Um learning to live in that tension, yeah.
Learning to live with it.
If you have to have one at atime, you can live holding a bit
of both the joy as well as thesorrow.

Claire (01:13:00):
Because it has affected you and it has shaped you and it
has changed your identity thatmuch.
And I think people on theoutside looking in who haven't
experienced that, they've justexperienced griefs that have
been sort of more normal andnatural in the way of life,
probably don't fully understandwhat that feels like.
I've lost grandparents and Iloved my grandparents.
And there's times when I missthem and I look back and I think

(01:13:21):
of memories and stuff, and it'sa little sad.
But it was in the order ofthings, it doesn't affect me day
to day.
It might occasionally crop up,and you think, oh, I miss my
someone else talking about it.
I would say that's a morenormal grief.
It's there, it doesn't affectme a lot.
Childlessness is something thatwill always affect me a lot.
No matter how I deal with it,I'm learning how to deal with

(01:13:43):
it.
If I'm learning to be okay withit and hold it and find joy in
it, I'm still learning how to dothat all the time.
So I think it just clarifiesfor me again who our listeners
are and who who's most likely tostick with a podcast like this.
And it's those people.
And so how can we help those?
So I'm sort of startingthinking about that as well
going forwards.
What does it look like?
How do we serve them?

(01:14:04):
It sounds healthy.
Yeah, it's good.
That's what that's what timeand space allows.
It allows me to reflect onstuff like that.
But you don't do that whenyou're in the treadmill of life
just going along.

Chris (01:14:13):
No.
But that does bring out the theside in me that's sort of just
come on, get on with it.
Yeah, put your socks up.
It's alright, time to um timeto you know chin up, all that
sort of stuff.

Claire (01:14:26):
Yeah, I don't have that.

Chris (01:14:27):
No, you don't have that.

Claire (01:14:28):
Well I have that voice, I know it's out there, and I
hear it from other people, but Ino longer bow to the pressure
of that anymore because I'vetried that and it doesn't work.

Chris (01:14:37):
I don't know where that's come from.
Is it nature?
Is it nurture?

Claire (01:14:40):
It's Britain.
We're a nation of get on withit.
Pull your socks up.

Chris (01:14:44):
Since the war.

Claire (01:14:45):
Yeah, pretty much.

Chris (01:14:46):
Keep calm and carry on.

Claire (01:14:47):
And there is a degree of that that I do think is is
good.
I'm not gonna let this I'm notgonna let this, you know, sink
me, you know, I and we needthat.
We do need a level of yes, thisis bad, it'll be me with me for
every day, it's shaped who Iam, I'm not gonna be the same
person, I'm not who I thoughtI'd be, it's changed
expectations, blah blah blah.
But I'm gonna find a way towork with that and move forward,

(01:15:07):
and I'm determined to have hopeand joy and love and all the
good things in my life.
So I do think you need a bit ofthat.
That's not a bad thing, butit's not good if it dismisses
all the pain and the hurt andmakes out that you should just
move on and forget that.
That's not good.
You need to deal with it beforeyou can do that.
And so you there is a degree ofit immediately.

Chris (01:15:30):
So working rather than wallowing.

Claire (01:15:32):
Yeah.
I did a whole, I can't what itwas called, I did a whole blog
on it where I was just sort ofoh, is grief if is grief
selfish?
That was it.
Because it's all about us,isn't it?
And our sadness.
It's not really even about theperson we lost, it's about how
we feel.
So is it a selfish thing?
And I think in that I looked atit and like, yeah, it can be if
we let it.
There's a degree where it canbecome all about us and we let
it sink us, and it can all bebad, but on the whole, it isn't,

(01:15:56):
for however many reasons.
I just went into that as atopic.
So I think, yeah, there's adanger there that it could get
like that.
Anyway, this has gone on waylonger than we thought.

Chris (01:16:04):
Yeah, well, anything more to say on that before we move
on to what's coming up?

Claire (01:16:08):
No, I don't think so.

Chris (01:16:09):
Great.
Well, the biggest thing aboutwhat's coming up, two things.
One is we've got just one weekleft before we return to the UK.

Claire (01:16:18):
Yeah.

Chris (01:16:22):
Uh and then as I head back to work, uh, after this
massive long nine weeks awayfrom that routine.
So that's a big thing, and thenChristmas.

Claire (01:16:31):
Christmas.
It's so weird that Christmas iskicking on.

Chris (01:16:34):
Just not right that it's 37 degrees outside and there's
Christmas songs on the radio.

Claire (01:16:39):
It's odd.

Chris (01:16:40):
It's very odd.
And we're planning a trip intoPerth to look at the Christmas
illuminations and there'sChristmas decorations being put
up, and you see Christmas treesin homes, and I'm in shorts, and
it's hot and sweaty.

Claire (01:16:54):
I need to convince Chris to have a mince pie.
Now it's December, I'm allowedto, so I'm saying we have your
first mince pie on the beach inthe heat and make it a memorable
experience.

Chris (01:17:03):
Well, it's Monday the first of December.
If we were if this was a normalyear in Brockworth, you'd have
probably this last weekendbought a Christmas tree.
Oh yeah, definitely.
And it would be up by now.
Definitely.

Claire (01:17:14):
First as soon as I can get it up within December.

Chris (01:17:17):
I know from what we hear from all our friends and family
in the UK it's been cold, it'sbeen very wet, it's been
beautiful cold mornings, butthere's been lots of horrible
wet days as well.
So it's probably feeling a bitmore December-y.
Yeah.
Uh but it's gonna it's gonnahit us hard to get back when we
do, heading towards the middleof December, and I know when we

(01:17:40):
get off the plane at HeathrowAirport, and you feel that sort
of as the doors open, you stepinto the tunnel, and there's
just that, oh my word.

Claire (01:17:48):
I think it's really interesting because you said to
me, like, whenever we go onholiday, no matter how long it's
been, and three weeks has beenour maximum holiday, I've never
wanted to come home.
I'm never ready to come home.
And so I was really interestedwith this amount of time, would
I be ready to come home?
Because this is a long time,it's like seven weeks away or
whatever.
And I'm not ready to go home.
I I'm I'm totally happy, Icould keep doing this forever.

(01:18:08):
But on the other side of thecoin, I am missing things from
home that I never thought Iwould say.
Like the cold a little bit.
I I have worked out that Icould not live in a hot country
that's hot all year round.
I have no interest in that.
I miss the varyingtemperatures, even though I
don't want I sound like I justwant like the perfect country,

(01:18:29):
but um I wouldn't want this allthe time.
And and Australia doesn't havethis all the time, but Singapore
does, and other places we'vebeen to, and I've decided that I
wouldn't want that.
I do like the cold.
I do miss wearing a jumper, Imiss wearing socks and jeans, I
miss lighting candles and havinghot bars.
I mean I have been having bathsanyway, but even in this
temperature I think would be abit too much for me.
There's a lot of things abouthome, and now we're going home,

(01:18:51):
and I get the best of all that,which is Christmas, with the
lights and putting that up inthe tree, and I am quite looking
forward I'm looking forward togoing back and experiencing all
that and the cold and my likehats and scarves and gloves.
I kind of miss that stuff,which I never thought I would
say, but at the same time, I'm Icould easily not go home.
I'm not like ready to go home,but the fact we're going into

(01:19:12):
Christmas, I'm quite pleasedabout.
If we were going back intoJanuary, I think I'd have found
that a bit more kind of likebecause January, February is a
bit of a it's a bit of a nothingmonth waiting for spring in my
opinion.
You kind of know it's coming,but it can still be really cold
and wet and um but yeah I thinkgoing back and going straight
into Christmas I think is areally nice thing.
If I've got to go back from aholiday, then that's a good

(01:19:33):
thing to do.
That's a good time to go.
Yeah.
Okay.
And I think feeling the cold isgonna be quite good.
This is when you're gonna doall your processing, and I'll be
just running around.

Chris (01:19:44):
So distracted by 20 lights.

Claire (01:19:48):
No, not at all.

Chris (01:19:49):
Yeah, I appreciate that.

Claire (01:19:50):
Anyway, we will discuss it.
And our next episode will bethe chatty Christmas catch-up
that we always do, which willexplore how we are, where we are
with life, how do we feel aboutChristmas, and I think in this
time, this episode, it's gonnabe about that transition.
What has that been like runningfrom hot to cold and then
straight into Christmas andsettling back into our house?
And we've had people staying inour house while we were away.

(01:20:13):
So that's gonna be like weirdbecause we haven't really had
that before.
So we're gonna get back to ourhouse, which it will be lovely
because it hasn't been shut upfor nine weeks, cold and
soulless.
It will be like lived in, whichwill be great, but at the same
time, we've got to then veryquickly get all the Christmas
stuff out and sort that out.
So, yeah, we'll see what thatall that ends up being like.

Chris (01:20:32):
Uh, and we'll have had two more nights in Singapore
before then as well.
Yeah, we've got two more nightsin the sweaty hits.
A little bit more of WesternAustralia to see, two more
nights in Singapore, then backon the flight.
Wondering who we'll sit next tothis time.
This time.
In our row of three seats.

Claire (01:20:49):
Already thinking about our next guest, whoever you are,
looking forward to meeting you.
We had hoping it's not the guythat you sat next to when we
flew from Singapore to Perth.
He wasn't having aconversation, was he?
He was a very grumpy Germangentleman who oh, grumpy German
gentleman who uh Well I thinkthat's a bit harsh.

Chris (01:21:05):
I don't think he was that grumpy.

Claire (01:21:07):
Uh he had a bit of a grumpy face.
And he kept trying to sleep,which is just annoying when he's
the one trapping you in for thetoy.

Chris (01:21:12):
We're too polite for long time for you to say.
We're not good at it.
Sorry, sorry, excuse me excuseme, sorry, can you really and
that's after you've held you'veheld on for as long as you
possibly can.
Can't get out, can't get out.
Anyway.

Claire (01:21:27):
Yeah, thank you for listening if you've joined us
and you're still here this far.
Yeah, we will be back soon.
Uh normally I would give youall the social medias to go and
look at.
Do please follow us because itis really helpful and
encouraging, but at the moment Ihaven't done much on there.
So um yeah, there's not much tosay at the moment, but I will
be back into that once we getback.

Chris (01:21:45):
One one of the things actually I was thinking a bit
earlier today, in fact, wasabout how much this experience
is making me appreciate more thegenerosity that we have of
friends and family that we knowand the friends that we don't
know so well as well.
And that includes even on thispodcast, you know, the
generosity of those that supportyou through buymeacoffee.com.
Yeah.
That's really, reallyappreciated.

(01:22:05):
It encourages us, yeah,particularly you, it helps
finance the podcast.

Claire (01:22:10):
Yeah, huge thank you to everybody who supports it in any
way.
It can be financially, but itcan be just sharing it with a
friend.
I've got a friend that likes tojust tell even her therapist
about our podcast, stuff likethat.
It's amazing.
It can really get to the rightpeople, and that's the key
thing.
And liking stuff on socialmedia, it's so encouraging to
get a few likes.
It's so hard out there to getlikes on anything, so yeah,

(01:22:32):
anything like that.
We're on most social media.
So if you're on there, find us.
And um also Herman, we'vebrought Herman with us on this
trip.
So I've posted a few videos andphotos of him enjoying some of
the beaches and the road trips.
So you can check him out at theHerman Company on Instagram.
He's only on Instagram, but um,there's some of that stuff
going on there as well.
So, yeah, thank you if you'veliked, shared, followed,

(01:22:53):
supported, donated, whatever.
It's um very gratefullyreceived.

Chris (01:22:58):
Thesilentwhy.com is the website where you can find all
that sort of detail, plus readup on us, our story, past
episodes.

Claire (01:23:06):
Yeah, we've got detailed episode three is all about us
talking about childlessness indetail, what we went through and
where we got to.
So if you're new to us and wantto hear about that, check out
episode three and all my blogsare on the website as well,
which explore different areas ofgrief and stuff.
And I've got lots more thoughtson new ones of those as well,
which is exciting for the newyear.
And yeah.

Chris (01:23:24):
And if you've got anything you want us to talk
about re-Christmas, if you'vegot any memories, childhood or
adulthood, if you've got anythoughts, any themes that you
think would be really nice forus to talk about questions
regarding Christmas, we can askyou.
Then let us know.
Email italantwightgmail.com orcontact through social media.
It'd be great to have sometopics for discussion.

Claire (01:23:44):
Yeah, and a goodbye from currently today the hottest
place in Australia.

Chris (01:23:48):
It is, yeah.
We saw the map on the TV newsthis morning and the West Coast,
Perth and and upwards was thehottest location in Australia.

Claire (01:23:57):
Yeah, there we go.

Chris (01:23:58):
Alright, see you soon.

Claire (01:23:59):
Yeah.
Bye.

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