Ep. 169: How OnX Changed Hunting Forever with Dylan Dowson

He grew up in the wide-open country of eastern Montana, chasing elk bugles and learning the outdoors with his dad. Today, Dylan Dowson has spent over a decade with OnX Hunt, shaping how hunters connect with the land through technology and storytelling.
In this episode, we dive into Dylan’s journey from small-town Montana to the forefront of digital mapping, the secrets behind OnX’s explosive growth, and the tension between tradition and tech in hunting. Dylan also shares unforgettable hunting stories, from calling in elk to the legendary “Scuba Moose” adventure in British Columbia.
Whether you’re an old-school map-and-compass hunter or a tech-savvy explorer, this conversation is packed with insights, laughs, and stories that remind us why we hunt.

📌 Topics include:
Growing up hunting in Montana
How OnX became an essential hunting tool
Elk hunting strategies during the rut
Balancing technology with tradition
Family hunting and raising kids with a connection to food
The unbelievable “Scuba Moose” recovery story

🎯 Don’t forget: Silvercore Club members get access to exclusive tips from 
Dylan and other industry leaders. Learn more at silvercore.ca.

https://www.instagram.com/dylan.hunter.dowson

https://www.instagram.com/onxhunt/

https://www.onxmaps.com/

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Silvercore Club - https://bit.ly/2RiREb4
Online Training - https://bit.ly/3nJKx7U
Other Training & Services - https://bit.ly/3vw6kSU
Merchandise - https://bit.ly/3ecyvk9
Blog Page - https://bit.ly/3nEHs8W 

Host Instagram - @Bader.Trav https://www.instagram.com/bader.trav
Silvercore Instagram - @SilvercoreOutdoors https://www.instagram.com/silvercoreoutdoors

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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro – Montana roots and OnX beginnings
06:00 OnX growth, marketing, and storytelling
12:00 Rangefinders, tech, and the ethics of hunting technology
17:30 Elk hunting strategies and advice
27:00 Calling elk vs. spot-and-stalk tactics
37:00 Family hunting and raising kids with food awareness
44:00 Axis deer in Hawaii & the “Scuba Moose” story
1:04:00 Final thoughts and advice

Episode Transcript

(00:12):
Today's guest works with on X, a premierhunting navigation tool that you can
download on your phone, use on yourcomputer, and if you're a Silvercore Club
member, you've already heard him sharesome of his insider tips on the outpost.
He's talked about some of the biggestlessons he's learned in the field.
Mistakes new hunters should avoid howto handle pressure on public land,

(00:36):
and even his go-to advice for howto prepare for backcountry hunts.
If you are a member and you haven'ttuned into the outpost yet, you're
missing out, log into Silver core.ca,go to your club portal and you can
download your personal podcast link.
If you're not a member,head over to silver core.ca.
We can learn how you can join theSilver Core Club and get access

(00:58):
to exclusive content like thisand all of the other member perks.
Now, one last thing before weget rolling with this podcast.
If you enjoy listening to this SilverCore podcast and you want to see it grow,
I'm gonna ask you to do me a huge favor.
Take a screenshot of a review thatyou've left for this Silver Core
Podcast on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify.

(01:20):
Send it on in to [e-mail] your mailing address, and I'm gonna
send you a free Silver Core sticker.
As a thank you.
Now, without further ado,let's get on with this podcast.
He grew up in the wide opencountry of eastern Montana, chasing
adventure with his dad and buildinga lifelong passion for hunting.

(01:42):
Today, he channels that same passioninto his work with On X, where he
spent nearly a decade helping shapethe way hunters connect with the land
through technology and storytelling.
From epic hunts to his role in OnXleading Western big game marketing,
his work has left a lastingmark on the hunting community.
Welcome to the Silver Corppodcast, Dylan Dowson.

(02:05):
Thank you.
Thanks for, uh, thankyou for the introduction.
That was a heck of an introduction, andthank you for, uh, for having me on.
It's always good to, good totalk a little hunting, and, uh,
especially this time of year, I'm,I'm excited that it's coming Quick.
Yeah, we're gearing up, aren't we?
Well, it was, it was Joe Appel friendof mine in the Squamish area who
actually put me on to you and ontoon X. 'cause uh, prior to that it was

(02:28):
something that I'd kinda looked at and Ithought, ah, this is only for Americans.
And, uh, being a Canadian,what has this got to do for me?
And well, sure enough, you guys arein Canada too, and it works amazing.
And you got some pretty cool featuresthat are, uh, that are kind of fun.
But, um, well let, let's getthis thing kind of rolling.
Why don't you tell me a little bitabout what got you into the outdoor

(02:49):
space and into OnX, and then we canstart sharing some hunting adventures.
Yeah, I love it.
Um, like you said in the intro,I, I grew up in Eastern Montana.
Where hunting and fishing andjust the outdoor lifestyle in
general is, it's easy to get into.
Right?
I am very fortunate and blessed that Idid not grow up in an area that there

(03:10):
was strong barriers to get into it.
I mean, heck, I've shot some, some ofmy best animals within five, 10 miles
from, from the town I grew up in.
So there wasn't a big barrier ofentry of like, yeah, you gotta, you
know, apply for these tags and thenif you get them you can go hunting.
It was just like something,something we just did.
Right.
It was a way of life.
Uh, and that's, that's what I grew updoing and very, very fortunate to do that.

(03:35):
But yeah, Eastern Montana, Imean, primarily over there.
I grew up mul, deer, whitetailhunting, um, antelope hunting as well.
And then I, I kind of cutmy teeth on elk hunting.
Shoot, I was probably 11, 12, thefirst elk hunt that I went on.
Um, and just right away was hooked, right?
Like.
The age old question, if you couldpick one animal, what would it be?

(03:57):
For me, it would have to beelk with a bow in my hand.
Um, pretty, pretty tough to beat that.
I still remember the day that Iheard my very first beagle, and it
was one of those mornings that wasjust like chaos and just magical
that you, you strive for every year.
And I mean, that night I heard myfirst bugle and I think I heard my a
hundred 50th bugle in that same night.
Just crazy, crazy evening.

(04:19):
So anyways, uh, needless tosay, I was beyond hooked on,
on elk hunting specifically.
But uh, yeah, I grew up in my hunting.
When I grew up it was pretty secluded toEastern Montana, you know, if it wasn't,
you know, two, three hour drive for anelk hunt, it was right close to home base.
And now one of the things, you know,as I have expanded and especially

(04:41):
working with Onyx and the opportunitiesthat's brought me to hunt other states.
Uh, to come up into Canadaa few different times.
Um, Alaska did Hawaii this year,went down to Mexico this year.
Hunt KZ deer.
I mean, just my, my huntinghas expanded from, okay.
Montana has a lot of really coolopportunities to, you know, we have some

(05:03):
of the tools even to draw, you know,whether it's draw odds and application
stuff for all the other states.
Like, I now have the, the toolsand the means and, and the drive, I
guess I would call it, to apply toother states and to hunt new species
and to hunt new areas and stuff.
So, um, yeah, it's been,it's been a pretty wild ride.
Um, actually just about a weekago, I crossed my 10 years working

(05:25):
here at OnX, so a lot has changedin the last 10 years of OnX.
When I started, it was relativelysmall company, um, you know, 20,
30 folks that worked here and nowit's, uh, it's really blown up and
has, uh, a ton of employees and.
We're do, we're able to do coolthings now, like be in Canada, right?
Um mm-hmm.
We found a, a need for folks in, in theStates and we're like, we can find some,

(05:50):
some data for Canada and provide thatproduct and, and, uh, whatnot to you
guys, our, our good friends up north.
So yeah, it's, it's been a prettycool, pretty cool decade working
here at OnX and, and gettingto do some awesome things.
Well, what do you think thesecret to the OnX growth has been?
Has marketing and storytellingbeen an, an integral part of that?
It really has.

(06:11):
Yeah.
And, uh, when I started, actually,I started out in customer service.
It was like the job opening at thetime, and, and I took it, right?
So I was the, the singleperson on the phones.
Emails.
There was like one other guy thatwould help out when we got real
busy, but there's a good chance,you know, if somebody had bought
the chip or at that stage, the, theapp on the phone was very early.

(06:32):
Um, if they had questions oranything, I was a person they
were talking to back in the day.
So, um, you know, I wasn't always onthe marketing side, but needless to
say, I say that because you know howmuch we've expanded from that day.
We had one customerservice rep at the time.
Now we hire a bunch of seasonal help aswell, but I don't know, it's probably
40 plus folks just in customer service.

(06:54):
Um, wow.
And, and yeah, I think part of that isthat the marketing and storytelling and,
you know, the adoption of the product, buta big part of that is just the flywheel
of, you know, I, I give it a try, right?
If you and I are hunting buddies and Itry something that is, you know, very,
very impactful in, in the way that Ihunt and it lets me go hunt new areas

(07:17):
and you see that as my hunting buddyand I'm either a gonna be like, Hey.
You have to download this becauseI'm trying to send you a way point,
um, you know, to where we're gonnameet up at this trailhead in the
dark that you've never been to andwithout this way point, you know, it's
gonna be chaos without cell service.
Um mm-hmm.
All the way to, you know, maybe I go on ahunt in a different area and find success

(07:40):
and like, how did you go find that spot?
I tell you, OnX, you download it, you tellthree friends, they tell three friends.
And, and it really has just kindof created that flywheel of, um,
you know, 10 years, 10 years ago.
A lot of folks still use theproduct and, and relied on it.
But today it's kind of becoming one ofthose things where I'm going hunting.
I need my, my rifle and myboots and my orange and I

(08:04):
better have my onyx downloaded.
'cause if not, it's gonnabe a, a pretty tough hunt.
You know, I, I love technology.
I love learning new things as they comeout, but I'm also torn because I love
doing things in an old fashioned way.
I still carry a map and compass withme on my hunts, and I, I, I look at
the features that OnX has, and I knowI'm only scratching the surface on

(08:27):
all the different things it does.
Uh, I, I like, I like when I'm driving toa location and I see areas that look good,
that it's right up there on my CarPlay.
I can just whoop, press the thingand then check it out for right off.
It tells me, yeah.
Or I can download the maps, which I don'twanna sound like a, a shill for OnX here.
But I'm just gonna tell you the boat,the things I'm, uh, excited about.

(08:49):
I like how fast it will download maps,uh, high resolution, high quality maps.
And a lot of the areas, most of theareas that I hunt, I don't have cell
reception, so I want that stuff downloadedand I can see that all up on my vehicle
if I'm driving into a location or ifI'm on the side by side or a quad or
that I get on out, uh, there's one,uh, piece that I think OnX can do.

(09:15):
I'm not a hundred percentsure I've heard of it.
I've never used it, but if youdown an animal and you can see
it, there it is over there.
It's like I shot, it's in thatdirection and it kind of bogeyed
off and I'm pretty sure it's, it'sdyed over somewhere over here.
But if I laser it, it can showup with certain laser devices.
If I do a range find, it can show up onmy, uh, app and show me how to get there.

(09:36):
Is that, is that fact or fiction?
Yeah, no.
That, that is fact.
We work, uh, right now with a coupledifferent companies and uh, got
some other ones coming out soon.
But essentially right now loophole insix hour, uh, we work with those range
finding devices that have Bluetooth.
Essentially, yeah, you can, youcan pin on your map using those.
Um, and there's otherways of doing it, right?

(09:58):
There's, we have a compass modewithin the hunt app to where if you
tap your location twice, it putsyou in what we call compass mode.
And then it has a range finder tool.
So even if you don't have a capablerange finder to connect with
that, um, any range finder, right?
So I can range something and say,that's where I saw that, that animal,

(10:19):
after the shot run into the trees.
I, I know right where it is, but assoon as I lose visual, as soon as I lose
elevation to get up to that other side,I'm not gonna be able to see that anymore.
And I think we've all done this, right?
It's like, I, I know exactlywhere that bull is standing.
I know where that bear was standing.
I'm just, I'm excited.
I'm just gonna go, I just shot it.
I'm excited.
We waited, you know,six days, just had it.

(10:41):
I'm gonna go find it right now.
I'm pumped up.
And then you get up thereand you start scratching your
head, it's like, was it here?
Was it here?
Mm-hmm.
Am I a hundred yardsaway from where it was?
Am I two yards away from where it was?
Everything looks different.
You know that specific bush and tree?
Mm-hmm.
From across the canyon that you pinpointedand you haven ant etched in your brain.
You get up there, it doesn't look likethe same bush and tree all of a sudden.

(11:02):
So, um, essentially, yeah, you canput your phone into compass mode
and long-winded way of saying it,but you can arrange it and say
it's, you know, 327 yards away.
Well then in the app, I can orientmy phone in compass mode and turn
right in, line up that area and typein 327 yards and it will drop away.

(11:22):
Point you can drop away point327 yards from your location.
Lined up exactly in thatdirection, um, with that bearing.
So now you're, you're, you'vegot a way point, right?
You still need to go up thereand do your due due diligence.
Can't just walk right to the waypoint, and you're a hundred percent
accurate a hundred percent of thetime, but I'm telling you, it will
put you within a couple feet or ayard or two from where you want to be.

(11:45):
So, um, that's huge.
You can do it through,yeah, through the app.
And then also again, uh, thatloophole, the, and sig, you know,
you can also just Bluetooth to itand, and do it that way as well,
huh.
All right.
Well, my, my wife's using the sig.
I'm gonna have to see ifshe's got the Bluetooth model
and, uh, see how that works.
And, um, the kilos, Ithink is what she got.

(12:06):
I've got, uh, Leicas and I'vebeen, been working on Leica to see
if, if they'll, uh, trade mine infor their new Bluetooth version.
But, uh, so far no luck, but we'll see.
We'll see what we can do there.
There we go.
Yeah, we, uh, we're, we're inconversations with Leica as well, and,
uh, yeah, excited about some of thestuff that, that we're able to do there.
And, um.

(12:26):
Yeah, it just goes to show thatthe technology too and, and
letting the technology expand.
10 years ago when I first startedworking here, there's that just that
technology wouldn't have existed.
Right?
It didn't exist.
So it was impossible to addfeatures like that today.
You know, we, we've got that capabilityand it's also one of those things too,
where just because you can do somethingdoesn't necessarily mean you should.

(12:49):
Um, you know, to your point therewith technology and where it's
going, there's some, some thingsthat we probably could do that we
are going, you know, have chosen andare going to choose not to do, right?
At the end of the day, we, welove getting outdoors, we love
hunting, we love the pursuit.
And if we ever get to a pointwhere it almost becomes too easy
because of technology allows itto, you know, there's, there's

(13:12):
some areas for barriers there.
Um, and that's just a goodconversation to, to keep having.
Right.
And whether it's you.
Long range hunting oryou know, you name it.
Some of the gear we have now reallyallows us to be a lot more successful
and stay out there longer andshoot further and, and whatever.
And technology.
And, and these right here, yourcell phones are, uh, another

(13:34):
piece of that conversation thatwe continually have here at Onyx.
Yeah, that, that was where Iwas gonna go with this too.
Uh, do you get many, I mean, there'salways gonna be people, especially
in the hunting firearms world.
Well, you're not a hunter.
You use quads.
You gotta use a quads.
God gave you, well you're not ahunter 'cause you use a rifle.
I use a bow.

(13:55):
Or I'm a musket.
I'm a muzzle loader.
Yeah.
There's always gonna be those thingsand there's gonna be the naysayers.
Do you get much heat from peoplesaying, nah, nah, nah, this, this
technology's making an unfair for hunters.
We get more heat from,I'll call it spot burning.
Than we do for technology.
Um, not to say, and I, again, I'm notreally on this side of the business

(14:19):
anymore with customer service.
I'm sure that there's been folksthat have reached out and said,
Hey, I don't like this feature.
I think this is crossing theline, or et cetera, et cetera.
Um, but yeah, we, we get more heat from,Hey, I had this amazing honey hole before
OnX because I was the only one that didthe research to get back in this one piece
of public using this age old easement.

(14:41):
And now with OnX, everybodyknows about it, right?
We, we get more of that, um,which I totally understand, right?
Like we, we've got our spots, I'vegot my spots, I like going and I
don't like running into other hunters.
And, um, a hundred percent,you know, that's fair.
And we, we recognize that and kindof our, not rebuttal to get into

(15:02):
an argument about it, but our.
You know, our conversation backis like, well, how many new spots
have you found because of vnx?
Right?
Like, sure, you might have that one spotthat, you know, there's a couple other
hunters that know about how to legallyget in there now and hunt successfully.
But what about all the other spotsthat you found because of it?
And, and usually folksare like, yeah, okay.
That's actually a good point.

(15:22):
I've got, you know, I just hunted abrand new state that would've been
really hard to do without the tool.
So, um, yeah, there's, there's, you know,pros and, and cons to, to some of that,
and we, we absolutely recognize that.
But honestly, it's, it's so small.
The, the feedback that we getlike that it is, uh, you know, a
percentage of the percentage offolks that, that feel that way.

(15:43):
And, uh, usually we get thestories of like, man, you gotta
look at this picture of this buck.
Like, I, I took my kid huntingfor the first time in a new state.
Like there's no way possible withoutOnX that we would've been able to shoot
this buck and, and that type of stuff.
So it's overwhelminglypositive, uh, responses.
But yeah, we, we recognize,you know, with uh.
I, I'll say it this way, with greatpower comes great responsibility

(16:06):
with technology and uh, um, yeah,continuing to have that conversation.
That's one thing that I've been proudabout, you know, working at Onyx is,
um, having those conversations andmaking sure that, you know, we, we feel
good about what we are doing and thatthe much more important larger scale,
you know, system of, of the huntingindustry that we, we happen to work in.

(16:28):
So a friend of mine called up says Travgot a general open season hunt here in bc.
It's something that I found this area I'vehunted with my family and this year, uh,
we're not able to get the family membersup for whatever reason, still want to go.
I'd love if you'd comeup and join me with it.
This is gonna be for an elk hunt, soof course I said yes a hundred percent.

(16:51):
Absolutely I will.
Um, being somebody who hasa passion for elk hunting.
Being somebody who works for OnX whocan provide some tips and tidbits,
what sort of advice would you giveme if you wanted to see me or anybody
else out there successful on anorthern British Columbia elk hunt?

(17:13):
And what sort of things would you berelying on or use utilizing with the
OnX app to, uh, to help in that success?
Yeah, yeah, that's a,that's a great question.
The, the thing I'll start off bysaying there is how I use the Hunt
app and how you use the Hunt appare going to be entirely different.
And that, the cool thing about the, thetool itself is it's just a tool, right?

(17:37):
Same thing as a, a bow or a rifle.
You know, if you go, if you, if we arerifle hunting and we both get the brand
new long range fancy Leica optic on topand all this fancy stuff, and you go shoot
it and learn it and, you know, figureout the dope on it and practice with it.
I don't, I zero it at a hundredyards the day before season.

(17:58):
You're gonna be a lot more efficientwith that tool than I am, right?
So it, at the end of theday, it's, it's a tool.
And there there is some, I'll callit, practicing with it just like you
would with a rifle or breaking ina new pair of boots before a hunt.
Um, that is, I wouldn't say required, butit's very helpful to be more successful.

(18:18):
Um, so I guess that's a littlebit preseason going into it.
I would say if, if somebody hasn't reallyexplored the app and, and know it's
ins and outs, which most folks don't,to your point, you know, you, you feel
like you haven't scratched the surface.
And I will say, I've said this for along time, that this is, I don't have
data to back this statement up atall, but I feel like 90% of Onyx users

(18:41):
use less than 10% of its capability.
Most folks out there are just using itto see, okay, where am I at on the map?
I might mark a waypoint where the truckis so I can find it if I get lost.
And that's about it.
And the cool thing is, is they'restill finding enough value in that
to subscribe and, and still beloyal, you know, customers of ours,

(19:02):
but they're so much more to it.
And the biggest thing I tell folksis to get in there and practice.
Like, heck, last night I was laying inbed and I'm ESC scouting for this coming
weekend where I'm gonna go put some bootson the ground in some new country for
a, a rifle elk permit that my wife drew.
Um, but essentially my point thereis like, if you're laying in bed at

(19:24):
night or sitting on the couch or.
Sitting at an airport and you'vegot a couple hours, get in OnX
and just tap all the buttons.
See what they do.
You're not gonna break it.
People are so afraid withtechnology, they're gonna break it.
But get in there, tap the buttons, turnthe layers on, turn the layers off.
See what that does to your maps.
See how you are going tofind the most value in it.

(19:46):
And, and that's step one, right?
Just tap the buttons, see what they do.
Mark away point, change the color onit, add notes to it, add a photo to
that way point, text it to your buddy.
Just see how that works.
So when you get out there in thefield, you're not, you know, when
you get out there, the last thingyou want to do is spend a ton of
time on your phone anyways, right?
Mm-hmm.
You wanna use the tool to besuccessful, but you don't want to

(20:09):
learn OnX while you're on a hunt.
You've got better things to do.
You're out there to hunt.
So learn it before would be my firstthing, and, and tap those buttons
and share waypoints and do all that.
Fun, fun, cool stuff.
Um, and then definitely save a fewoffline maps, which you alluded to.
A lot of folks don't, you know,realize that maybe where they're going,

(20:30):
they don't have service or whatnot.
But, uh, regardless, even ifyou're not a hundred percent sure,
just save a few maps, you cansave multiple maps on top of it.
So you could save a giant area.
For example, I've got the entire stateof Montana saved on my phone in low
resolution maps, so it doesn't take upa ton of storage because there's a lot

(20:50):
of areas in Montana I don't need saved.
But I want to make sure that anywhereI go, I've got a map, I can see
what's private, what's public.
I can see my location, I canlike get a map, and then the
areas that I specifically knowI'm going to go in and hunt.
Then I will dive into those areas,whether it be an entire unit, a mountain
range, a general area, and I'll savemedium or high resolution maps there.

(21:13):
So the reason that you don't justsave the entire, you know, state of
Montana or a large chunk of area inhigh res maps is that it just eats
up a lot of storage on your phone.
Mm. If you
have the storage, great, go for it.
Um, but if you don't need to be able tozoom in really tight on the imagery and
see like, oh, that's a rock outcroppingwith a tree on the right side, like
very, very specific detailed imagery,um, you can get away with the low res

(21:37):
maps and then go in and saved medium orhigh where you are going specifically.
So then once I cross over thatborder of that saved map, now
I can zoom in really tight.
I've got like the best imagery saved.
I've got all the, you know,everything I need there.
So learn it, save maps off on use.
And then, um, as far as layersand stuff, that's where we really

(21:59):
get into how I use it and how youuse it are going to be different.
One of the layers, for example,that excuse me, I really
like is slope angle layer.
So you turn on slope anglelayer and it kind of, it, it.
Changes the colors on your map, and atfirst it can be a little overwhelming.
Uh, you got red, so you got greens,you got blues, and it's like just a, a

(22:22):
color vomit on your map all of a sudden.
But you look at the top andthere's a scale bar and it'll tell
you what that color gradient is.
And so this is really helpful foridentifying, um, benches and saddles
and just if you're going up through aCliffy mountain, for example, it will
identify better than almost anythingelse, your best path to hike to the top

(22:46):
of the mountain and not get cliffed out.
Um, so think of it like a topo mapor lidar, but more, almost more
detailed and based on past hunts.
I know like we, we did a spring bear hunta couple years ago in Idaho and we packed
out two bears out of a canyon and with theslope angle turned on, there was a lot of

(23:07):
purple involved in our hike up in purple.
I now know having been in it is likehands and feet, like you're, you're
grabbing onto trees above you topull you up the mountain essentially.
Um, and so especially when you look atway points and have, when you've been
in areas that you know what it was liketo come outta that canyon, and then
you look at slope angle and it's like,okay, now I start to understand, you

(23:31):
know, we want to stay in this area.
Or if there's little blotches of purple,uh, and blue mixed within that mountain.
Those are generally cliffy areaswhere you will get clipped out.
If you look at a topo map and eventhree DA lot of times you don't see
those little cliffy pockets where,you know, if you're coming out heavy
or in the dark with a headlamp andit's raining and it's slippery.

(23:52):
You want to just avoidthose at all costs, right?
And the slope angle layer can reallyhelp you depict that and help, help
A, find navigation routes for you.
B, find navigation routesfor the game you're pursuing.
And c you know, little things likebenches and, uh, you know, I've, I've
used it to find water before on the sideof a mountain and all that good stuff.
So that's one example of, uh, you know, alayer, a piece of data that I like using.

(24:16):
Now you might use it and be like, nah,it, that's not really helpful for me.
But what is helpful for me is, uh, youknow, using Terrain X on the desktop
beforehand and, and finding like northfacing stuff between 15 and 22 degrees,
um, between this elevation band, right?
Like, there's so many thingsthat you as a hunter are gonna

(24:39):
approach it differently than I am.
And again, it just goes back tothe tool and, you know, what's,
what is your method of hunting?
Too, because if I like calling inbulls and you like stocking into them,
or spot and stalking, like we we'reprobably gonna use the, the tool a
little bit different, um, you know, forthose different use cases of hunting.
So hopefully that answeredyour question a little bit.

(25:01):
It was kind of a long-winded way of,there's a lot to it and, uh mm-hmm.
You know,
everybody's gonna use it differently.
There's not really a cheat code.
Right.
I think a lot of times with, withOnX, people want to say like, what
do I need to do to use it to besuccessful and what's the cheat code?
And, and there's not just like,there's no cheat code of okay, you
just bought a fancy rifle with a highdollar liquor on top, and that doesn't

(25:23):
mean you can go shoot an animal atseven, 800 yards out of the box.
Mm-hmm.
Um, nor should you, so there's,uh, yeah, there's, you, you kind of
get out of it what you put into it.
And that is to, again, circling backto the folks that are like, oh, OnX
just makes this easier for everybody.
It's like, well if you're, if you'rereally passionate about your hunting and
you want to learn and be more successful.

(25:45):
You can use it to be successful, but it's,uh, just because you download the the
OnX ONTAP does not mean everybody's onthe, the same level playing field with,
with maps and how they use 'em, you know?
So if we were to take OnX outta thepicture and you wanted to provide some,
let's say, elk specific tips that suityour style of hunting, what would you

(26:07):
suggest to somebody going out, uh, ifthey wanted to be successful for elk?
Are you thinking, uh,archery or rifle or rut?
Rifle, I guess I should call it rifle.
So I primarily, I will just say firsthand,I've shot three Cal Elk with a rifle.
I've not shot a single bull with a rifle.
'cause archery elk islike, kind of my, my thing.

(26:28):
Hmm.
I like hunting them in the rut.
So all of my bull elk have been, uh.
With a bow and then rifle.
Once rifle season happens, I kind oftransition to deer antelope and stuff.
So I don't have a ton of rifle elkhunting experience besides filling
the freezer with some cow elk.
Um, but I guess, you know, rothunting in general, I'll say that.

(26:48):
'cause your guys' rifle,does it start pretty early?
Can you rifle hunt during the rut?
Yep.
Yeah, so perfect.
Um, how I have found my success in elkhunting during the rut is it's a little
bit dependent on the, the country, right?
I grew up in eastern Montana.
There's elk over there in pockets,like it's open, more open terrain.

(27:12):
There's timber, but it's notlike, you know, a dark black
wall of timber, for example.
Now I live in western Montanawhere I'm looking out my window
to some pretty rugged mountains.
Yeah, there's some open parks andwhatnot, but primarily like there's a
lot of timber in mountainous country.
So.
If I'm in mountainous timberedcountry, I love calling in elk like

(27:36):
it is, I, I just love it, right?
It might not be the most successfulway, the best way to kill a bull on that
particular day, but I really love thatrush of playing that cat and mouse and
having a bull cut me off and scream atmy face while he is tending his cows.
And like, there's nothingthat beats that feeling to me.
So that's how I choose to hunt elk.

(27:58):
Um, over here where there'stimber is I like to find them.
I like to locate 'em, and a lot oftimes what I'm doing there is covering
country at night, whether in thevehicle or on foot or just sitting
and listening to different basins atnight just to get a, a gauge for it.
There's a bull in this drainage.
I can hunt him tomorrow.
I, I, I hate nothing more thanhunting in the morning and not

(28:22):
knowing if there's elk in the area.
I'd rather be up a lot the nightbefore and hear a bugle and be
like, Hey, there's a bull there.
I know I'm at least in the game.
Tomorrow morning, because I knowthere's a bull in this area.
Um, so again, I, I spend a lot of timein the evenings and at night or getting
up very early to, to hear a bugle.
So I'm, I'm hunting elk.

(28:44):
I'm not just hunting, right?
I, I know there's a bullthere that I can go after.
I'm either gonna screw it up or kill him,but at least there's an outcome hunting.
So, uh, yeah, locating him is big for me.
And then also after that,again, calling him bulls.
Like I love getting in close, challenginghim when you can and, and having that
bull upset and coming in mad is, there'snothing cooler, but depending on how

(29:09):
fired up he is, if he has cows or not,you know, I, I'm using calling techniques
or having, hopefully a buddy calling,uh, a little ways behind me to, to suck
in a bull and have a close encounter.
Like, that's how I cut my teethout cu my very first bull.
Called him in.
My uncle called him in for me.
To like six or seven yards max.
And he turned broadside and screamed.

(29:32):
And it was like, I stillremember that, that noise.
Wow.
That close to me as I was at fulldraw and I shot him at like six yards.
Um, wow.
Yeah.
It was just like the, and actuallythat bull is right here next to me.
One of, you know, just agreat mountain timber bowl.
Like it was, that hunt was amazing.
Uh, so anytime I'm in the, the mountainsin, in the timber, I, I just prefer to

(29:53):
call them in because it's more fun for me.
Um, transitioning a little bitto, you know, east more eastern
Montana style hunting or justmore planes hunting, right?
Like, it's not dedicated toEastern Montana, but it's a
little bit more open country.
It's breaky.
It's craggy.
There's timber pockets, but it's notlike deep dark timber in the mountains.

(30:15):
I have found way more successin that country located in elk.
Letting him, and sometimesI try to get him talking.
Last year I killed a bull and um,I, I found him the night before.
I glass him up the night before.
So I went in there.
I knew there was an elkin the area, he had cows.
And I went in there and, uh, itwas just silent that morning.

(30:36):
Not a peep, nothing going on.
And I'm sitting there and I'm like,I need to know where he is before
I commit to, to getting in thereso he doesn't, you know, win me.
And I don't blow itbefore I even start it.
Hmm.
So I bugled he responded.
I'm like, okay, I got him.
I know where he is.
And then we, we kind of did thatfor another four or five times.
I would cover a hundredyards, 200 yards and sit.

(30:59):
'cause at the, you know, I don'tknow if they're coming toward me.
I don't know what they're doing.
And so I'd sit there for a while, nothing.
So I'd, I'd bugle again.
He, he would respond.
I'm like, okay, I got 'em now.
I'd move another two, 300 yards.
Sit, wait, nothing.
So we kind of did that until I gotclose enough that it made him mad.
And then he startedbugling a lot on his own.
Once he started bugling a lot on his own.

(31:20):
I just shut up.
I didn't, didn't cow call, didn't beagle.
And as long as he was giving up hislocation, all I was doing was making
sure the wind was right and slipping in.
And that's how I've killed probablythe last five or six bulls is
letting them talk and just slippingin and, you know, without any
of the elk knowing you're there.

(31:41):
'cause there's been so many times,right, like when I shot my bull
last year, he stepped out and I, Ishot him, there was a cow like under
10 yards right to the left of me.
Just over a rise.
I could see like her ears if I wereto call and stop that bull or try to
get him to come out like that, cow'sjust gonna pick up her head and see me.
I'm pretty much in thewide open at 10 yards.

(32:01):
Like it's gonna be game over.
They've been with the same elk all night.
They know what elk are around.
All of a sudden you throw ina different cow call like.
In the, the kitchen of all theseelk and they're like, whoa, what?
Like, who, where,where's this coming from?
What's going on here?
Oft like, obviously there's times whereI've gotten away with it and I have called
in bulls in that country, but, uh, wildlymore oftentimes than not, let 'em talk,

(32:25):
get slip in there and, you know, get anarrow or, you know, rifle if you can.
Obviously makes it a little bit easierbecause you don't have to get in
that, you know, 50 ish yards or, orin, um, but yeah, let 'em talk and,
and slip in undetected is, is kindof how I've been doing it recently.
More in open terrain.
Hmm.
So I'll be, I've got a northernBritish Columbia elk hunt.

(32:48):
I'll be on that for a coupleweeks or going up early and
then going into the rut.
Uh, I get back from that.
I'll be up to Alaska.
There's a, uh, it'll bemy first time in Alaska.
Never been there before, soI'm looking forward to that.
Awesome.
A friend of mine.
A friend of mine, she's, uh, bigin the fishing world, April Vokey.
She says, I got this thing going on overin, uh, uh, this company called Chrome

(33:10):
Chasers, and you should come on overand let's, let's do something together.
So we'll be, we'll be there for a week.
Her and her family.
And me and my family.
And then, uh, I've gotanother elk hunt in Alberta.
I've never hunted in Albertabefore, but this is gonna be
your more open planes type thing.
So, uh, I'm observing what I canfrom you, from your experience and,

(33:31):
um, I've got a lot of research todo before I jump into that one.
So that'll be, uh, that'll be fun.
How about you?
What kind of, what kind of plans yougotta, uh, lined up for this season?
It's, it's gonna be a busy fall.
The, the draws were good tous this year, thankfully.
Um.
So I'm gonna kick it off.
Uh, plans are a little bit up inthe air right now, but I'm gonna
kick it off with a Wyoming elk hunt.

(33:52):
So, as I was just saying, you know,I typically archery hunt elk with,
uh, you know, I, I just archery huntelk if, unless I'm trying to fill the
freezer with a, a cow or something.
Late season Wyoming this year.
The plan right now anyways,is to take a rifle.
Um, I might still take a bowdepending on, and then hit like
the last few days of archery andthen be there for rifle opener.

(34:14):
But that one's gonna bea horseback style hunt.
Um, kind of a, a wilderness back country.
Like, really, really cool.
It's been a while.
You know, I, I usually do a horse huntevery year, every other year or something.
I unfortunately have some friendswith some horses and, uh, it's kinda
like a boat, you know, that saying,it's like the be, you know, the only
thing better than owning horses ishaving a friend who owns horses.

(34:38):
Yep.
So, anyways, I, uh, I've done a littlebit of it, but not necessarily a. Hey,
we're going deep in the back countryfor 10 days and we're, we're taking
a horse string type type of hunt.
So I'm excited for thatone to kick it off.
Um, and then actually after Irifle hunt Wyoming, I'm gonna come
back and archery hunt Montana.
It'll be kind of a laterseason hunt into October.

(35:00):
Um, but I found some success, youknow, there when a lot of folks come
third week of September, second weekof September, and, you know, hunt it
out and there's a lot of competition.
And then after, after that, a lot offolks go home and it's kind of nice to
have less, less competition in the woods.
Uh, and some, some bullsstill fired up late season.

(35:20):
So come back in.
Archery hunt Montana, uh, followed up witha rifle, mul deer and rifle antelope punt.
I drew my antelope permitthis year in Montana.
And then, uh, my wife, this is kind ofthe, I've got a lot of hunts this year,
but this is the one I'm most excited for.
My wife drew one ofMontana's hardest to get.
Rifle bull elk tags, and she'snever shot an elk before.

(35:43):
Um, wow.
Yeah.
And it's, I mean, it'sa, it's a heck of a unit.
I'm gonna go put some boots on theground, uh, this weekend actually, and,
and scout it, learn it a little bitbetter, but just the, the trophy potential
in there is pretty, pretty crazy.
And she's never shot an elk before.
So super excited for, for that hunt,probably more than any of the other ones.

(36:04):
And, and just, uh, help her, youknow, hopefully shoot her first bull.
And I, I hope I told, I keep tellingher, I hope it's bigger than any bull
I've killed, um, for her first one.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So that's, that's kind of my goal.
But, uh, we'll see.
It'll be a blast no matter what.
A little bit challenging,because we didn't, didn't really
expect her to draw this tag.
It's so hard to get.

(36:25):
And we have a four and a 2-year-oldat home, so we're a gonna be
hunting and b gonna be, you know.
Having babysitters hang out with themand grandparents are gonna be involved.
And um, but the goal, what I wouldlove is for them to be at least in
camp when she shoots a bull so theycan come, you know, experience that.
Um, and we did that last year with someantelope and they were there kind of

(36:48):
along for it and got to experience it.
And, uh, just to see them like, youknow, we, we went fishing this past
weekend, for example, and then weate, ate some fish two nights ago.
And, and to see that connection, right,of like, oh, here's what we're doing.
And now we're eatingit, and this is awesome.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, my 4-year-old, you know, he'll we'llbe eating steak and he just knows now at

(37:11):
this point, if we're eating burger steak,it's elk and we will be eating steak.
And he is like, dad,which, which bull is this?
You know?
And then he wants me to like pointto which one it is that, that
we are eating and and whatnot.
And so that's super cool, uh, to see,and especially from an early age.
And so, yeah.
Long-winded way of saying I'm, Ihope at least that they're in camp,

(37:31):
um, or can be close when, whenshe does, uh, shoot her first elk.
I think that's a reallyimportant piece of the puzzle.
I think, uh, people in general are fairlydisconnected from their food and however
you can bridge that gap, whether that'sgardening in the backyard or going to
the farm market, um, seeing the processof where food lives, if you're a meat

(37:54):
eater and how it ends up on your table.
And if you're a hunter, havingthe kids involved with this.
'cause it creates such anappreciation, not just for the
food, but also for life in general.
And I find that death is such aclosed door activity nowadays,
that it creates a warped idea,uh, in a lot of people's minds.

(38:15):
What they see is death.
The closest thing they getis gonna be video games.
And, uh, that's not really a healthyrepresentation of, uh, of life and death.
I, I think it's really important tobe raising your kids and raising your
family with that connection to nature.
Have you, yeah.
Done a lot of hunts with your wifeand of course your kids being young,

(38:35):
two and four, probably not a tonwith them, but is hunting with a
family a uh, a big thing you do?
It is.
Um, so my wife, when, when we firstmet, she had never shot a gun.
Um, so actually the veryfirst time we ever, you know,
hung out, we went to, to the.
The, the country and shot someguns and like that was kind of

(38:58):
how we got to know each other.
But, uh, yeah, so it wasn't, she didn'tgrow up hunting or anything like that.
But, uh, we've hunted deer for probablysix or seven years now together.
Um, she shot a lot of really nice bugswith me, a couple of antelope, um,
hopefully a big bull elk this year.

(39:18):
But, you know, we, we get out whenwe can and, and it is important and
we, I really appreciate that time.
A lot of the hunts I do too arelike somewhat work related, and
so they're outta state stuff.
So I, I wouldn't say like we're huntingpartners every time, but when we, when we
can, we definitely make time to get outwith each other and yeah, I'm excited for
the, the boys to start coming with us andyeah, the, the antelope last year, for

(39:41):
example, the boys, uh, were with my dadin the pickup and my wife and I went out
and made a couple stocks, shot two nicebucks, and then they were able to come.
Get pictures, you know,with us and the animals.
And then also see like us breakingthem down in the field and, and
then putting that meat on ice.
And to me that was like very importantfor them to be there for that because,

(40:05):
you know, like you said, not only the,the connection to death in your food,
but it's like, here's the process andlike, here's the work that goes into it.
And it's really hot out right nowand like, you know, you're, you're
cutting up meat and getting it on iceand that's like, we value this a lot.
And yes, it's really, it's fun to gohunting and it's fun to get that shot
on a nice buck, but we, we reallyvalue, like taking care of the meat

(40:29):
and then, you know, processing itourselves if you can or whatever
you, whatever you need to do there.
Um, but then pulling it outta thefreezer and being like, Hey, this
is the animal animal buck that momshot last year that you were with.
Like, and that connection, like you canalready just see, see the wheels turning
in their minds, which is really, reallyimportant and, and cool to be able to do.

(40:49):
It's funny, some of thesimilarities that I'm sensing here.
So my wife as well had never shota firearm prior to meeting me,
and she came from a very liberalleft-leaning, uh, family and background.
Uh, so much so, so hermaiden name is Sinclair.
Uh, she's directly related toMargaret Sinclair, who was, uh,

(41:11):
Pierre Elliot, Trudeau's wife,Justin Trudeau's, uh, mother.
There was always that sort of liberalsentiment in the family and to see where
her upbringing was and where she is now.
What, uh, the driver for her,she's a chef by trade, was that
connection to the food and wantingjust to be deeper connected to it.

(41:31):
And, um, it's funny watching peoplewho come from a very liberal background
and, uh, opening up to what's more thisredneck hunting, fish and sort of culture.
Not in a redneck way.
Yeah.
And, and seeing how, seeing howthat resonates with them and
seeing how their lives change.
And I can tell you without a doubt,my best hunts have always been with

(41:55):
family, with, uh, my wife, with my kids.
And, uh, there's something reallyspecial about that when you're sitting
down at the table and everyone, like,my son is this, is this from the deer
that I shot last season going on andtelling his sister about the adventure.
I mean, there's, there'ssomething to that.
Yeah.
No, it's, it's really cool.
And, um, yeah, I feel very fortunateto be able to, you know, kind of tying

(42:21):
it back into OnX in some sense, right?
Like I, I've gotten to do a lot ofreally cool things because of the
opportunities that I've been giventhrough, through this job that I currently
have and, and working in the industry.
And, um, yeah, it's just expanded.
Expanded what I personally have,have done or probably would've done.
With my personal hunting, you know,Montana, there's a lot of things to do.

(42:43):
There's a lot of, a lot ofcritters, a lot of seasons, and
that's kind of where my mind was.
And, uh, you brought up Alaska and I'vebeen to Alaska twice and they were, you
know, both kind of opportunities throughmy job, uh, to go explore and hunt Alaska.
It was just amazing.
Like the first one was Kodiak.
Uh, we hunted sick of Blacktailon Kodiak, just the, the coolest

(43:03):
place probably I've ever been.
Um, amazing.
And then last year went up toNorthern Alaska and, uh, I shot
a, a caribou with my bow up there.
And just another thing that, you know,I probably, I wouldn't say that I,
I wouldn't have done it right, butit would just be a lot harder to do.
Um, and it's less likely that I wouldget to go do those type of things

(43:25):
without, uh, without some of the things.
So yeah, I just feel super, superfortunate, uh, to be able to do those
things and explore new areas from, youknow, deer hunts in Colorado to Alaska.
Uh.
My wife, and actually this, this onedefinitely wasn't a work one, but my
wife, and actually we got married,uh, it's just been a little over five

(43:46):
years ago right in the, the peak ofthe, the COVID and, uh, pandemic.
And, you know, we couldn't reallytravel anywhere for a honeymoon, right?
Like it was hard to travel andgo do anything, uh, at that time.
So we, we had our wedding and gotmarried and kind of set aside a honeymoon
fund in the, the gun stay for fiveyears, and thankfully didn't touch it.

(44:09):
Mm. This year we, we went to Hawaiiand, uh, did our honeymoon on our
five year anniversary, or closeto our five year anniversary.
And, um, I hunted accessto deer down there.
So it was, it was cool to tie ina, a morning of access to your
hunting in a, a new area and,uh, be able to do that on quote.
My honeymoon was pretty awesome.

(44:30):
Nice.
What island?
Uh, we were on Maui.
Okay.
I, I hunted axis on Molokai.
That was, uh, that's kindof a neat experience.
They're everywhere.
Yeah.
And yeah, it's, I've never had a deer barkat me before, but that was kind of cool.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was, it wasan experience for sure.
I mean, we saw, shoot, we were alittle early, earlier than the rut.

(44:51):
Um, but we saw in one morningprobably three, 400 deer.
Crazy, I mean, a ton of deer,only a couple mature bucks.
Um, but yeah, it was just, it was cool,cool hunting and Yeah, I know not, not
too many guys can stay on their honeymoon.
They went hunting, so veryfortunate on that end.

(45:11):
A hundred percent.
Can you tell me about scuba moose?
Yes.
You, uh, yeah.
So Scuba moose, uh, that's, that'sa whole podcast by itself there.
That's, that's a prettycrazy, pretty crazy story.
So this was, shoot, probably.
Five, six years ago at this point, maybea little longer even, uh, my dad called

(45:37):
me and he said, well, he called me muchearlier than this, but he called me and
he said, Hey, I'm thinking about doing aarchery moose hunt in British Columbia.
And I was like, you've got my interest.
What, uh mm-hmm.
What's going on?
And so him and a friend of his were, weretalking about going up and, and doing this
kind of once in a lifetime moose hunt.
Um, and it was one of those things whereI, I didn't, you know, have the money

(46:01):
to go do it myself, but I was like,100% I'm coming with, uh, figure out
what it would cost for me to come, youknow, just as a, a non hunter in camp
and, and be there and experience it.
So I, I went up with him.
Uh, we drove like 35 hours fromMontana, hopped on a float plane,
you know, just crazy stuff for us.
Like I know some folks that live up there.

(46:22):
That's just kind of what.
What you do, right?
But, uh, it's not what we do in Montana.
We don't use float planes and,and get dropped off in the
middle of nowhere like that.
And it was just a really cool experience.
And, uh, again, this could be atwo hour long conversation with
this, this hunt in particular, butessentially had an amazing hunt.
Uh, the hunting was relativelyslow for the first four or five

(46:45):
days weather started to come in.
Um, and this was anarchery, archery moose hunt.
And the lakes were starting tofreeze up a little bit and then
they would thaw during the day.
Fast forward a couple days andwe, we saw and called in just
like an absolute giant bull.
Um, I don't know.

(47:07):
I mean, I've been around someSHIs moose in Montana and whatnot.
You know, you know, you, youwatch videos and whatnot.
You know what a, a big bullis just like any animal.
Mm-hmm.
But it was like one of those bullsthat you didn't have to know a single
thing about moose to know like,holy cows, this thing is giant.
Um, and so, yeah, I was standing rightnext to my dad when this bull came

(47:28):
across in front of us, like 40 yards.
And, uh, he drew and the bull, the bullstopped like kind of quartering to us.
And, um, I videoed this whole thing,you know, just on like a, a crappy
little handycam and whatnot andput together a, uh, a video on it.
But, uh, yeah, the bull stopped quarteringto, and my dad was at full draw and like

(47:50):
I whispered his ear like, don't shoot.
Like that shoulder was just right thereand it would've been a pretty risky shot.
And, uh, he obviously wasthinking the same thing.
And when that bull went to leave,he turned, my dad shot, got narrow
in him, and he drew his bow again.
And, and I stopped that bull ashe was kind of going outta sight.
He shot again.
Got a second arrow in him.

(48:10):
Um, and uh, yeah, that bull went aroundembedded and there's, there's so many
pieces to this story that kind of madeit all like a really unique scenario.
But keep in mind that thelakes were freezing over.
That's a key part.
So this bull goes over in,in beds and another bull.
We accidentally called in anotherbull and it came and got him out

(48:30):
of his bed, bumped him up, andwe watched him go in the timber.
And we could tell like this, it was afatal shot, like you could tell for sure,
but it might take a little bit of time.
So we're, we had some discussions.
It's like, should we back out?
Should we wait?
You know, should we wait till darkand then go try and recover him?
And we unanimously decidelike, let's just back out.

(48:52):
That bull's gonna be there.
We'll come in right away.
First thing in the morningthat bull's gonna be there.
Let's not push him.
Um.
Let's, let's do the right thing here.
So we hiked all the way back out,went to go get picked up, and
uh, the main guy picked us up.
We told him about, you know, the,this crazy bull and this crazy,
you know, what just happened.
And he was excited.

(49:12):
And then the look on his face just changedand we're like, what's, what's the matter?
And he was like, the floatplane called and they have to
pick us up tomorrow morning.
We have a crazy weather system coming in.
And they're worried that like, ifthey don't get their hunters out
tomorrow morning, like now thatthey're, we're gonna be stuck here.
Hmm.
That changed things from, like, wewere, you know, pretty high spirits

(49:35):
of like that bull, you know, there'sa good chance that bull probably is
already dead, um, laying in his bed.
But we're not gonna push it.
We're gonna just find him first thingin the morning to looking at the clock.
And we're like, we've got like45 minutes until it's dark.
Let's go recover that bull now.
Um, because we have to get himcut up because we have to leave.
First thing tomorrow morning.

(49:55):
So we basically ran all the way backthere, picked up the blood, it was great
blood, found the arrow, uh, we're trackingthat bull through the timber and he, he
was almost expired, jumped out of his bed.
We bumped him and he ranstraight into the water.
Ah,
and the whole time, like the guideswere telling us like if a moose gets
hit and he, he runs into the water.

(50:16):
Like it's, it's okay.
Like it happens.
They've recovered severalmoose from the lakes before.
Go get inflate, uh, a raftif you need to get it shore.
Cut it up like it happens.
Not a big deal.
Well this bull went out there and, uh, andhe died and sunk and did not resurface.
And we were standing there looking rightwhere we had last seen him and just

(50:39):
waiting, you know, and waiting and waitingand finally pulling out our headlamps
and stuff and looking and no moose.
And, you know, we just,it was kind of a weird.
How everything happened was justa crazy set of circumstances,
but we were just waiting for thismoose to float, and he never did.
Well, it got so dark that we were like,we don't, there's nothing we can do.

(51:00):
The water was basically freezing.
So at one point I was like, whatif we built a fire and I swam
out there and tried to, you know,find him and wrap something around
his paddle or whatever, right.
Just all, all options around the table.
Mm-hmm.
And the guide right away was like,yeah, that's absolutely not happening.
Like even if we build a bigfire, like there's hypothermia

(51:22):
and, you know, risk of whatever.
So anyways, we, we hike back, go backto the, the cabin and essentially we
devised a plan that the next morningthe float plane would show up.
We would hop in it, we would fly overto that lake where the moose was in.
He would be floating because Moosefloat and recover him and start

(51:42):
working him up while they startshuttling the other folks in gear out.
And so we were still like, allright, well that's, you know,
that's what's gonna happen.
And again, the set of circumstances likethat, the float plane ended up not showing
up until like 4:00 PM the next afternoon.
Mm.
Because of some otherthings that went wrong.
And so hindsight, we could have lefthim, but, you know, it's just you,

(52:04):
you don't know, and you, you mm-hmm.
Play the, the hand that you're dealt.
And essentially when they showedup, we, we flew the other lake and
we did everything that we could.
Um, and there he still hadn't floated.
There was, there was nothing therewe couldn't see through the water.
There was just no signs of this moose.
And essentially the, the pilot was like,you guys are, you guys are leaving.

(52:25):
You don't have a choice.
We have to get you out of here right now.
So we essentially did everything wecould and, and we're forced to leave.
Um, and yeah, it was just incrediblydisheartening when we left, you know,
all of our gear loaded behind us.
We flew right over that lake andbetween frantically searching for any
sign of, of that moose and knowingwhat had happened and where he was, it
was just like, you know, just the, thecraziest feeling ever of super hard

(52:51):
hunt once in a lifetime hunt for us.
No moose sightings to like the biggestbull that we will probably ever see in our
lifetime at 40 yards to that happening.
And now we're going home andthere's nothing we can do about it,
you know, it's out of our hands.
So, um, essentially some, some phonecalls were made and we were like, Hey, we,
we realized it's incredibly bittersweetbecause that, that meat is, is no longer

(53:13):
ours, even if we recover this bull.
But, uh, we, my dad wanted to go up and,and give it one more shot to try and
find him right, to just kind of moreputting, put an end to the, the story
of, you know, we did every possiblething we could to recover that moose.
And so I think it was July, June orJuly when the ice came off, uh, and

(53:34):
we headed up north, hop back in afloat plane, another 35 hour drive up
there, hop back in a float plane Wow.
With, uh, all sorts of camping gearwith, uh, chains, ropes, pulleys,
whatever we could to poss, you know,we had an entire winter to think about
how we could recover this moose if heis still at the bottom of the lake.
Um, and we flew in there with enoughcamping gear for three or four days

(53:56):
and, which honestly like, obviouslyI wish we would've just recovered
that bull when, when he had shot him.
But it was also really, it was coolto go back into that country because I
left that following or the previous fallbeing like, I'll never be back here.
Like, what are the chance that I willever step foot in this country again?
And it was almost like one of thosethings where you're sad leaving.

(54:19):
Uh, so it was cool to goback into that same country.
Um, obviously I wish it was underdifferent circumstances, but, uh, we.
We got to the lake and we buzzed acouple times with the plane and didn't
see anything, didn't see anything.
And uh, we were about to get droppedoff and the pilot switched directions
on which way he was flying the lake.
And we flew around the other way.
And I still, still remember I hada headset on and the pilot did,

(54:42):
but my dad and the, the guy thatcame back in with us did not.
And so I was talking to the pilot andhe was like, I think I see something.
And he turned around and went a little bitlower and banked the plane really hard.
And he's like, I got him.
He is like, that is, that's the bull.
He's red on the shore,like absolute giant.
Like I see him and I remember I asked himlike five times, I was like, are you sure?

(55:06):
This is like, that's my dad's bull.
Because I didn't want to tellmy dad like, Hey, we got him.
You know?
'cause he couldn't hear our conversation.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't wanna tell him we got himif it, if it wasn't or if it was just
a different deadhead or something.
Right.
And so he is like, there's no way.
That's not that bull.
It's like one of thebiggest moose I've seen.
Around here and I can tell from theplane, so I, I tapped him on the shoulder
again with thumbs up and, you know,it's so loud in those, those beavers

(55:29):
that you can't really hear each other.
But yeah, uh, yeah, it was just a reallycool moment and we, we landed and, uh,
recovered him and, uh, all the bones,what we had, basically what we had
determined was at some point, uh, I don'tknow if it took a while for the ice to
actually get up there or what happened.
I don't know if a, a grizzly, likeif he floated and a grizzly went out

(55:50):
and got him and drug him to shore orif he floated and pushed to shore.
But that entire embankment aroundwhere that moose was, was dug out
and there was bear sign everywhere.
So at some point, whether it be that, thatspring or the winter before hibernation,
uh, a bear had been on that moose and youknow, had completely dug out the bank.

(56:11):
'cause I had video and photos fromthe air of what that bank looked
like before and then after when wegot there, and it was just like.
A grizzly just lived on topof that moose essentially.
Um, so yeah, it was a bunch of bonesin the water and, and, uh, you know,
the skull and, and that moose was,he was in perfect shape and brought
him back home and cleaned him up.

(56:31):
And now he is, he's in my, my dad's shop.
Um, which again, it wasn'tnecessarily going back for the
trophy aspect of it, right.
It was more just like weknew he was right there.
There's nothing we could do.
Like we can go back and try torecover him to, to kind of close
the, the story, if you will.
And it was more a, a senseof, uh, accomplishment for

(56:53):
us to go back and do it.
Then it was like, oh, it's areally big bull, so we gotta
go back and get him right.
It was, uh, it was much more fulfillingjust to like, we did everything we could
and, and finally we, we recovered him.
So it was a, it was a pretty, prettycrazy, you know, from the time he
shot that bull till we recoveredhim was like five months or so.
Um, and yeah, just a, just a crazy orde.

(57:17):
What a heck of anemotional roller coaster.
That's, uh, yeah, it was, so I think youflew with Nick ha's company outta Burns
Lake there, which is, uh, lake District.
I think that was the, uh,the company you flew with.
It might have been.
We, yeah, it was, uh, Des Lake.
It was it Des Lake?
Yeah.
Okay.
I I, I saw a little clip I saw on theback of the playing the LD on there.

(57:41):
But you know, those Bush pilots, they're,they're built a little different.
Yes.
And, uh, if they say it's time tocome out, you kinda have to listen
to 'em because their threshold forcomfort probably exceeds your threshold
for comfort when you're out there.
Yeah.
I remember, um, Nickwas, uh, flying us to.

(58:02):
Uh, during the, um, the huntingseason, he'll fly people into different
guide outfitters areas and he setup some cabins on a few lakes and
he is got an agreement and he says,look it, I don't fly people in for
hunting unless they're coming for you.
But, you know, summertime fishing,I got my fishing lodges and people
can, can use 'em and rent 'em.
So anyways, went up there with my family,did a, uh, a fishing trip on one of these,

(58:25):
uh, one of the lakes where he is got acabin set up and we're flying out there.
And he's talking about, he says, youknow, I don't mean to scare you Trav,
but man, these things break all the time.
'cause I was asking wherehis other plane was, right?
We're flying in on a beaver.
He had a 180, uh, Cessna.
And he's like, thesethings break all the time.
He is going to all the problemsand issues that the planes have and

(58:47):
he's taking pictures as we fly in.
It was about an hourflight that we took him.
And, uh, I'm like, what are you doing?
He said, well, you know, that otherguy at the, uh, that I had at the
docks area, he is helping load.
He's a pilot, he's a helicopterpilot, and, uh, he also flies fixed
wing and commercially, and he'sjust coming on board to help me out.
Oh, okay.

(59:08):
So I'm just taking pictures of theweather patterns so that he's got a
better idea of what this looks like.
'cause he's used to these short runs.
This longer run is you gotta start makingdecisions as do we turn around or not?
Right?
Anyways, uh, he's going on andhe is talking about stuff and I'm
looking like I'm not really seeinganything that looks too terrible.
Uh, I think most of their flying'sgonna be VFR visual flight rules.

(59:30):
And, uh, every once in a while youend up getting clouded out a bit.
And so your IFR, but, uh, he says,we're gonna come around this bank,
we're gonna see it's our final approachand it's our very last decision
making time if we hit the lake or not.
And this is after about an hour flyingand we're just about ready to land.
And I thought he was joking, justgiven, 'cause I, I'm looking,

(59:51):
it looks fine enough anyways.
He goes in, he says, okay, we're doing it.
Lands a plane.
I'm like, I I don't getwhy he's acting like this.
We run in, we get the spikes offthe, uh, the door of the cabin
'cause he is got these, uh.
Uh, plywood with spikes comingup to keep the bears out, right?
And get the boards off the windows.
He says, okay, you'regood starting the fridge.

(01:00:13):
You're good with thestuff and, uh, see ya.
We're out.
Right?
And so he's gone.
Fair enough.
We spend the, um, uh, a week out there.
All of our, uh, all of our freshfood didn't really stay fresh
because his fridge didn't work.
And, um, uh, so thankfully wewere able to catch lots of fish
and that was our fresh food.

(01:00:35):
He comes back in and I'm askinghim about his, uh, his buddy.
He says, oh, well, how's your buddy doing?
I, I thought maybe he'd be flying out.
He says, nah, he quit.
What do you mean he quit?
He said, I showed him these picturesthat I took and, uh, that was it.
And he says, I can't, I don'thave the stomach for this.
Oh, okay.
So, um, then, then I sit in theplane and the chair, the seat

(01:00:57):
breaks, and I, I'm like, I'm okay.
That's fine.
I could do an ab crunch when we go up.
He's like, Nope, if that chair, ifyour seat isn't secured in properly,
we're not taken off safety first.
I go, okay, fine.
And gets his leatherman outand he turns this screw like a
little half turn and just kind ofcatching onto the back of my seat.
He's like, there we go.
Now we're safe.
I'm like, all right.
So I'm doing the crotch anyways, right?

(01:01:19):
We, we take on off andman, he is great guy.
Uh, very competent pilot.
My, uh, uh, wife and son and daughterand dog are in the back of this beaver,
and I'm the passenger up front becausehe got a little bit more leg room.
They're all crammed in the back.
He's got the plane on the side andhe's pointing out different, uh,

(01:01:40):
sheep and different, uh, terrain and.
Uh, my son, uh, he was training tobe, become a pilot since an early age.
So I think at that agehe was about 13 or 14.
And so he's cool as a cucumber.
This is all new, this,he's all used to it.
And my daughter and uh, wife are backthere and they see the light come on, on
the, uh, the plane and this thing startflashing and my wife's tapping me on

(01:02:04):
the back shoulder and he's pointing outthe window looking at stuff and all of a
sudden we run out of fuel and, uh, ooh.
But it, but it's got two tanks, right?
We, we got enough room that we could floatdown if we needed to glide down to a lake.
And so he's madly pumpingthe thing and writing it up.
But I guess all of this is to say thattheir comfort level for adventure and risk

(01:02:27):
is pretty high if they've made a livingoutta flying people into the back country.
So if they've.
Call in and say, we have to get you out.
I'm gonna listen to them because Yeah.
Probably have to leave.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was, it was just such a coolexperience and, uh, yeah, just being
in that plane, it was like, again,it's not what we do in Montana and

(01:02:50):
Mm,
yes people have used planes to accesscountry and whatnot, but that part
was, uh, I wouldn't say as cool asthe hunt itself, but it was just
like a part of the experience.
Right.
And like, talking to those pilots,um, heard some crazy stories
'cause we were, you know, a littleover an hour flight probably too.
And one way, and, and yeah, justhaving conversations and learning

(01:03:13):
about their life and how they becameto be a Bush pilot, uh, is pretty cool.
And, uh, I don't know how much truththere is to this, but there's probably
some, uh, Pete, one of the, the mainguy with us was telling us, you know,
about all of his flight stories overthe years and, and situations and stuff.
And he is like, yeah, you don't judge.
Uh.
What do you say?
Something about how you don'tjudge a pilot by how many

(01:03:36):
times if he's crashed or not.
You judge a, a good bush pilot byhow many times he's crashed and
lived, and I was like, mm-hmm.
Oh, that's a, that's a kind of aneye-opening statement of like, oh yeah,
that guy's crashed a few planes, buthe lives, he's like, he's still flying.
He is doing good.
Uh, which is a kind of a crazy,crazy ordeal, but, uh, yeah, just a
different, different way of transportup there and it's, it was pretty cool.

(01:03:59):
That
is neat.
Is there anything that weshould be talking about that
we haven't talked about?
I don't think so.
Um, yeah, I mean, I guess to, to kindof bring full circle to the OnX side of
things, but, uh, on X is in Canada now.
Download it, try it free.
Uh, if, if you haven't already, and,and, uh, put it to use on your hunts.
Let us know what you think of it.
And specifically with Canada, if there'sanything that, you know, we feel that

(01:04:23):
you guys feel that, uh, we shouldadd, um, or different, let us know.
We, we love.
Listening to customer's feedback and, youknow, I've got limited experience hunting
in Canada that the story I just told.
And, um, I hunted some blackbears in Saskatchewan last year,
um, actually earlier this spring.
But, uh, yeah, we want to hear from thefolks that are out there using it, like

(01:04:43):
what is, what's helpful, what's not, uh,what would you like to see in the product?
But, uh, yeah, I mean the biggest thingagain on XY is just download it for
free, try it, and uh, hopefully it'sone of those tools that helps you,
you know, go more places, explore newcountry and, and find more success.
Really
amazing.
Dylan, thank you very much forbeing on this Silver Corp podcast.

(01:05:06):
Yeah, thank you for having me.