Ep 140: Trading the Gridiron for the Great Outdoors: Joe Eppele’s Journey to Purpose

In this inspiring episode of the Silvercore Podcast, Travis Bader sits down with former CFL player Joe Eppele, who made the bold decision to leave behind a lucrative football career to pursue his true passion for the outdoors. Joe opens up about his transition from professional sports to a life centered on hunting, conservation, and personal fulfillment.

He shares behind-the-scenes stories from his TV career with Wild TV, the unique challenges of filming hunts, and the joys of foraging and mushroom hunting. Joe also discusses the critical work of the Wild Sheep Society of BC, the importance of preserving wildlife, and his vision of blending fatherhood with outdoor adventures as he introduces his son to the wild. Packed with wisdom on resilience, purpose, and living life on your own terms, this episode offers something for everyone—from outdoor enthusiasts to those looking for inspiration in their own life journey.

https://www.instagram.com/joe_eppele https://wildtv.ca/program/THEEDGE https://www.instagram.com/theedgetvshow   https://www.wildsheepsociety.com

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Silvercore Club - https://bit.ly/2RiREb4 Online Training - https://bit.ly/3nJKx7U Other Training & Services - https://bit.ly/3vw6kSU Merchandise - https://bit.ly/3ecyvk9 Blog Page - https://bit.ly/3nEHs8W

Host Instagram - @Bader.Trav https://www.instagram.com/bader.trav Silvercore Instagram - @SilvercoreOutdoors https://www.instagram.com/silvercoreoutdoors

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00:00 Introduction: Are You Happy with Your Life? 00:46 Exciting Giveaway Announcement ATI SAI Scope - Marathon Watch 01:53 Meet Joe Appel: From Football to the Outdoors 03:45 Joe's Background and Passion for the Outdoors 06:36 Balancing Desk Work and Outdoor Adventures 08:57 Parenting and Outdoor Lifestyle 10:56 The Value of Failure and Resilience 16:21 Transitioning from Football to a New Career 24:24 Challenges and Rewards of Filming Outdoor Shows 30:35 Supportive Partner in Pursuing Passion 31:10 Exploring Onyx Hunt Features 39:46 Challenges of Filming Hunting Shows 47:36 Guided Hunts: Learning from Experts 51:09 Foraging and Mushroom Picking 01:00:36 Future Aspirations and Family 01:02:16 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Episode Transcript

Travis Bader (00:09):
I've got a simple question for you.
Are you happy with your life?
Are you passionate about what you do?
Do you wake up each morning,excited and full of energy?
If the answer is yes, fantastic.
If the answer is no, have you exploredwhat you can do to change this?
Would you turn your back on alarge sum of money in favor of a

(00:32):
life that aligns with your soul?
In today's podcast, Joe Appeltalks about walking away from the
most lucrative contracts in hisprofessional football career to pursue
a lifestyle that truly brings him joy.
If you haven't heard yet, you're goingto want to jump on our social media.
As we've teamed up with my favoritescope and watch companies, and we're

(00:54):
giving away over 5, 000 in prizesto one lucky winner up for grabs.
Is this amazing SAI optics one tosix by 24 millimeter scope from ATI.
It's first focal plane, alimited reticle, brilliant
performance, and extremely rugged.
Also, this 41mm Arctic Red MapleDiver's GSAR for marathon watches.

(01:18):
It's robust, striking, and precise.
These are two amazing Canadiancompanies making phenomenal products.
You'll also win a Silvercoremerch pack, so check out our
social feed for full details.
You better act fast as this giveaway endsSeptember 18th at 1159 PM pacific time.
If you can't wait and you want one ofthese scopes or watches for yourself.

(01:38):
Silvercore club members received 20percent off Tenebrex scope covers,
15 percent off SAI optics, 10percent off tangent theta scopes,
and 10 percent off marathon watches.
Now let's get on with the podcast.
Our guest today is a former CFL playerwho's transitioned seamlessly from
the football field to the backcountrywith a passion for sustainable hunting

(02:02):
and a dedication to conservation.
He's made a significant impact,both on and off the field.
His story is one of resilience,discipline, and an unwavering
love for the outdoors.
Welcome to the Silvercorepodcast, Joe Appel.
Travis, thank you so much for having me.
That was quite the introduction.
You built me up pretty high.
I better, uh, I better do my besthere to live up to expectations after

(02:24):
that intro, but I appreciate it.
I tell you, you're going to have to perform now.
Well, I mean, we broke.
The Cardinal rule that I usually havewhen podcasting guaranteed, whenever I
have a podcast, the best conversationwill happen before I press record
and after I press record, becauseeveryone's going to be at ease.
Right.
And so usually what I like to do is Ilike to sit down and kind of go into a

(02:45):
blind, but what do we do this morning?
We just
came back from, I think, four hours outon the, out on the ocean, doing some
crabbing and hanging out and naturally.
Two gentlemen such as ourselves couldnot stop gabbing the entire time.
So I think we would be hard pressedto find a single topic that we
haven't already touched on today.
You know what?
We're going to try and then we'regoing to act surprised when we

(03:06):
talk about things that we'vealready talked about on the boat.
Oh, I, I think it will still be great.
Cause to like, we were somewhat controlledin that we cut ourselves off as we
started getting down some interestingtangents and you were very, you were
far more responsible than I was, Iwas like, yeah, let's keep chatting,
Joe, we're drawing a line right here.
Taking a note.
We'll talk about this later.

(03:26):
So I think we, we have agood foundational knowledge.
It'll be exciting to seehow it plays out this way.
I'm interested.
Yeah.
Yeah, me too.
Well, I mean, I think theaudience will let us know as well.
Some people will havealready known about you.
They will have seen you on wildTV or seen your show, the edge.
And some people will know about youthrough your professional career,
playing football for the CFL.
How would you tell me a littlebit about your background

(03:48):
and we'll play it from there.
Sure.
I'll, uh, I'll try and keepit somewhat short and sweet.
Um, but yeah, with the outdoorside of life, I mean, I was born
and raised here in, uh, Bracadaleor Squamish, British Columbia.
Uh, my father was a welder, um, andthen he had a landscaping company.
My mother ran the localmushroom buying station.
Uh, but we gardened, we fished, we hunted.

(04:10):
That's just what we did year round.
That was my, my primarypassion in my younger years.
Um, and, and, uh, Yeah, I, I justabsolutely love being in the outdoors
and there's not really many places youget to be where you're exposed to more
of it than somewhere like Squamish.
So I was very fortunate, uh, but as timewent on, um, I grew to be quite large.
I mean, you and I look each otherin the eye, so I'm, I'm a tall man.

(04:33):
I'm six, eight and, uh, I started to kindof come out of people were like, Oh my
God, this guy has some athletic potential.
So the athletic side of my lifestarted to take me down a different
path and pulled me away fromthe outdoors for a little while.
Um, but taught me a lotof valuable life lessons.
Um, but yeah, I ended up playingcollege ball at Washington State, was
fortunate enough to get drafted in theCFL, played five years professional

(04:56):
football for the Toronto Argonauts,won a great cup, that was a blast.
And then I realized my career was gettingto a point where I wasn't passionate about
the sport anymore and I wanted to findsomething that I was passionate about.
So, I had made a lot of valuable,Life connections at that time.
And I stepped away from sportsand I went back to school.
I got my master's, uh, my MBAmarketing and advertising focus

(05:17):
and a little bit of sales in there.
Um, and, uh, started transitioninginto life post athletics.
Um, took on my first role managing WesternCanada for an athletic supplement company.
And I just wasn't happy in that industry.
It was a lot of, Nothing is people thatare, but it just wasn't as pertinent to
my life anymore at that stage becauseI've moved out of professional sports.

(05:37):
Um, and I just kept my eyes open foropportunities in the outdoor world.
And that was my true passion from avery young age, as mentioned, outdoors
was always my biggest passion.
And I was fortunate enough tostumble across an opportunity in the
marketing and sales side with wild TV.
And fortunately for me, um, part of that.
Career ended up opening some doorsas well to, to host a show on,

(06:01):
uh, on wild TV, which is the edge.
And I'm now we're filming season six.
So I've been doing it for six years.
It was crazy.
And, uh, yeah, I mean, it's funny.
My, my athletic career was it in my mindas a child, my athletic professional
athletic career was a more feasible,reasonable goal, and, uh, you know,
Having a career in the outdoor spacewas unreasonable and unattainable.
Um, and here I am fortunate enough tohave lived, you know, a professional

(06:22):
athletic career, and now I'mliving like my true dream of being
able to go out in the mountainsand share my passion with people.
Um, but I still do have to worka desk job in the background.
So let's, let's be honest about that.
It's not all fun and games.
I do have to do a lotof desk work as well.
Well, how much desk work do you,would you say you typically put in?
If I'm not in the bush, I'm good,you know, eight to 12 hours a day.

(06:43):
This is my little lab.
I have my computer screen,but I'm doing a lot.
It's a dealing a lot of, um, talkingwith companies, planning corporate
campaigns, um, helping them enter theCanadian space, a lot of different stuff,
a lot of boring things that people wouldnot be as interested in hearing about.
But.
They don't fire me when fall comesaround and I take a lot of time off

(07:04):
for the hunting and doing all of that.
So it's that, it's that balance wherewhen I'm home, I'm working basically
full time, like more than full time.
I'm, I'm a hundredpercent invested in that.
But when hunting season rolls around,if I got to take 10, 14 days off to
go do a, you know, Back countriesdon't cheat on, they don't bat an eye,
you know, and, and I love it out here.

(07:24):
And I've been looking at theSquamish area for a while.
It's like, you know, it's kind of nice.
I live in Ladner.
I'm in the downtown ish area.
If I want to get somewhere, I'mbattling traffic for hours to get
there that I'm battling traffic.
I've got to get back.
You've got the back countryright here in your backyard.
Absolutely.
God's country.
You've got a free boat launchright out here where we

(07:46):
launched our crab traps from.
Um, how does that impact your abilityto do your day job and your desk job?
And obviously there's the benefit thatyou can get out of the back country, but.
Do you find there's a constant nagand pull to, uh, have you outside?
It, it makes it tough
to stay at my desk when I wake upand the weather conditions are right.

(08:07):
And I'm like, I should be in the mountainsand I know I have to get through a
pitch or a proposal or prepare somedocuments or work on something there.
And I'm like, but.
There was a 10 degree temperaturedrop last night and we're
getting a black tail, right?
Like maybe I should go hit the mountainsa bit and run some bluffs, but at the
same time, it gives me the ability tostill be here and work consistently.

(08:30):
And then if, if I do need to sneak out foran evening hunt or go check trail cams or
do something like that, it's, it's doable.
I mean, here we are today, it's noon.
We're back in my office, we've beenout on the water for how long today?
Hanging out for hours.
So that ease of access, it's, it createsa lot of opportunity where I can, you
know, kill two birds with one stonein a day, but it definitely creates

(08:53):
that pull where, you know, it's verytempting to play hooky a little bit.
No kidding.
And now you've got a, got a young onerunning around and it's going to add
this whole different dynamic to wherewhat's going to be pulling you in your
time, that's, uh, quite the adventure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, having having junioraround, um, is an absolute blast.
It's almost like I get to be exposedto the outdoors for the first time

(09:16):
again, getting to see it all throughhis eyes and share those experiences.
It takes me back through my childhood,so I get to relive that excitement and
Having that be your child and knowingand seeing him gain that appreciation
for the outdoors, um, is reallyspecial, but yeah, it definitely is a
pull on time where before going awayon a hunt, like a 10, 14 day hunt,

(09:39):
I could tell my wife, I have to go.
This is part of what I'm doing.
She understands it a lotmore than my son understands.
He wants to jump in the truck,wants to go hunting with dad.
That's a challenge.
That's going to be a hard one for sure.
So what happens if he grows up to be a six foot eight giant?
Then I don't have to pack mymoose out of the chicken carcass.
That'll be great.

(09:59):
Would you encourage himto go down the same route?
Do professional football.
Would you encourage him togo to professional sports?
Cause you know, we, we wentto the same high school.
It turns out I got in because I was a bigguy and I remember it was coach Del Monte
and he's waiting down at the admissionsoffice down below and I'd written
my test and I walk on in and I, I'mgetting ready to go and return my test.

(10:23):
And I'm feeling pretty good.
Like I wrote it well, and he stopsand he says, Trav, hold on a second.
Um, do you play ball?
I said, well, I mean, I'veplayed football before, right?
And he says, well, will youplay football for our school?
I'm like, I don't know, maybe, right?
He's like, hold on.
I'm going to cut to the chase.
If you play football for our school.
I'll make sure that thistest gets in the right hands.

(10:44):
I'm like, I'll play football forthe school and I'll get on through.
So, um, but my heart wasn't in it.
My heart was not in that sort ofroad, even though I was built for it.
What would you tell your son?
So
I will absolutely.
Motivate or push my son to getinto something where he can lose.
That's what I want him to do.
So I don't care if it's football.

(11:05):
I mean, if he's smart, I'll tell himnot to play football because I've
done a lot of damage to my body.
I've had three reconstructive shoulders.
Like this is as hard as high asI can lift my arm to the side.
I can't externally rotate.
They've been wanting to do a shoulderreplacement since my mid twenties.
I have a herniated C5 C6 slowlycausing my hands to go numb.
I had a whole bunch of surgeries.
It's a mess, but I learnedso many valuable life lessons

(11:28):
through my athletic career.
And it.
I was mentioning earlier, itbuilt me up to be at a place
where I had such a platform.
It created these opportunitiesfor the outdoors.
I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing todayif it wasn't for the life lessons I've
learned, the academic career, my athleticsprovided me, all of those types of things.
Put me in the situation.
I am today.
My original plan was to work construction.

(11:49):
I was working for Peter Kiewit redoingthe highway because we, we had the
Olympic bid and that's what I wouldhave been doing and nothing against that
career, but my life changed completelybecause of the doors, my athletics.
Opened up for me.
Right.
So, and, and I think it's important, youknow, going to a sport where you learn how
to lose face, those moments where you, youreally want to win in the game, or you are

(12:09):
the reason the team loses and you have todeal with that heartbreak that motivates
you to want to get better and improve.
And I think those are some of thebiggest life lessons you can learn.
So, um, one of my biggest things, I don'tcare if it's ping pong, if it's bad,
like whatever it could be competitiveknitting for all I care, if he gets in
something where he can get his hopes up.
Work hard, have his heart broken,learn to improve, get better.

(12:33):
That's, that's my goal for them.
That's a piece of the puzzle that for many years, I think a
lot of people have been overlooking.
I think there are very well meaningparents out there who want their
child to do well, and this iswhy we see eighth place ribbons.
You come in eighth place, butyou still get a ribbon, right?
No ribbons are for the people who win orthe parents will go in and they'll say,

(12:55):
uh, they'll argue with the teacher andthey'll try and get their grades raised.
Yeah.
And they don't realize the disservice thatthey're actually doing to an individual.
I think that's why we have safe spacesnow, because people lack the ability
and the resilience that's createdfrom, from losing there's winners.
There's losers, maybe, maybe a losethe foot race every single time,

(13:17):
but man, you're a good artist.
Yeah, it
forces you to either want to getbetter at your craft, at what
you're working on, or realize maybethat's not the direction for you.
What else can you excelat and get better at?
I mean, you know, There's heartbreaksin life, and as a parent you want to
protect your kid from that, but I thinkit's a selfish thing to do, and this is

(13:38):
my opinion, so anybody out there thathas a different opinion, that's your
opinion, but I think it's selfish forthe parent not to understand that's our
burden to take on, and to help guide andcoach your kid how to get through that.
So for me, like the biggest thingsthat have led to me becoming a
stubborn prick, And makes me somewhatsuccessful, somewhat, very much your

(13:58):
quotations, somewhat successful in theback country is I know how to fail.
I know how to push through adversity.
I know how to do all of that becausea lot of my athletic career was around
not succeeding, was around beingbig enough, but not good enough.
Oh, we'll keep working onhim because he's so large.
He can't teach size.
But he sucks.
So we'll keep working on him.

(14:19):
I can relate to that.
Exactly.
So then, so then I learnedhow to fail, but keep working
to get better, to get better.
Because I was so big, peoplewere like, he sucks right now.
But if we keep working on him,keep pushing him in the right
direction, he'll eventually get good.
So I eventually got half decent at sports.
Um, but I learned the value offailing, the value of getting
back at it and improving.

(14:39):
And then I got to see the benefitof getting to the other side.
And that's one of the biggest thingsis I think nowadays people coddle
because as a parent, you don't wantto see your kid fail because for you,
it's going to make you feel terribleand you're going to, you, you're going
to, it's going to break your heart.
Um, that, and I think a lot of parents put their
own, their own, uh, aspirations,their own dreams onto their child.

(15:00):
And they.
They lose sight of the factthat this is their child's life.
And they're, they feel like afailure if their child fails and
they don't want to, I don't know,look bad in front of other parents.
Whereas I'm in the same camp as you.
I'd much rather see my kids falland get up, fall and get up.
And I, and I wonder, I wonder if that'sjust got to do with the fact that I

(15:22):
failed so many damn times as a childand I can see the benefit to that.
Yeah.
You learn such a
resilience through that.
And, and I think, yeah, there's justinvaluable life lessons that come with
that failure process and understandingthe work and then the pride and the
self confidence that's gained whenyou do work through that and you get
through it and you're like, Oh myGod, I'm capable of so much more.
Like, think about hunting.
You go on a hunt day one,you're successful on that hunt.

(15:45):
You're like, that was a cool hunt.
You don't appreciate it.
You go out, you have a close call,you miss an animal, you blow a stock,
something happens, you are heartbroken.
You don't stop thinking about it.
You think in your mind, how can I improve?
What can I do to get better?
And you work towards it.
Then when you are successful,that success is so much sweeter
because you've worked for it.
You've earned it and yougain that confidence.

(16:06):
You've gained that knowledge.
It didn't just happen.
You earned it.
And I think that leadsto so much more success.
And I think that's.
That's the same across the board through.
Scholastics through athletics, through
hunting, through anything you do.
So you're playing pro ball andyou decide at some point, maybe
this isn't the path for me.

(16:27):
What was it that, that pushed you?
Was it injuries?
Was there something burning insideyour heart saying, Hey, I've got to,
I got to move somewhere different.
What was it for you?
It was
good question.
It was, it was kind of a perfectstorm of a lot of different
things happening at the same time.
Um, I had had my.
Second and third shoulder surgeryin a very close period of time.

(16:50):
Um, and I had been picked up by auto inthe expansion draft Toronto Argonauts.
They could protect acertain amount of people.
They didn't protect me cause I had twosurgeries planned for that off season.
So I ended up getting drafted byOttawa and I was going to a new team.
Um, my father, um, during that offseason, tough subject, but he was
diagnosed with brain cancer and endedup passing that same off season.

(17:13):
So I spent a lot of time, he.
I was by his side through the wholeprocess, and we had a lot of talks and
talked about, you know, quality of life,living a dream you want to do, don't
push things you're not passionate about.
He kept saying, we were in Ontario,he wanted to get back to BC, he
wasn't physically able to travelanymore, they wouldn't even, you
know, I couldn't buy him a planeticket or have anybody fly him.

(17:33):
So he ended up passing in Ontario andwanted to be back in the mountains, and
there was, there was a lot to that, uh,I did a lot of soul searching and, and
was able to gain a lot of perspectivethrough my dad's eyes at that time.
And then I sat in on the CBA negotiationsand I watched how the ownership behind
the CFL talked about the athletes and Ireally started feeling like a complete

(17:54):
piece of meat and a cog in the system.
And there was just a fewthings that happened.
So surgeries, perspective shift throughmy conversations with my father and, and,
and kind of seeing life through a newlight and then seeing how the ownerships.
They talk to you sweet in one way,but in the CBA negotiations, it's
completely different conversation.
So I took a look back and I waslike, what am I doing with my life?

(18:14):
Am I happy here?
Was not happy.
I was playing a sport that I was goodat, that I was quote unquote billed for.
I was never truly passionateabout football the way I was
passionate about other thingsin life, but I was big enough.
So I fit, I fit the, I fitthe puzzle and it worked.
Can't eat size.
Um, so then I looked at myself andlike, well, I have a lot of great
Network connections, a lot of peoplethat if I could add value back to

(18:38):
them, it would open a lot of doors.
So I walked away from the best CFLcontracts I had in my entire career.
Um, I walked away from themall and I retired and I.
When I did my GMAT and I got readyto go back to school and do my MBA.
What did people say?
Did people look at you and they startjudging and say, what are you doing?
Why are you leavingthese awesome contracts?

(18:58):
You know, for a guy who went and
did really well on his GMAT,I got called stupid a lot.
I'll tell you that.
Um, yeah, a lot of peoplewere really questioning, you
know, why I would walk away.
I had worked.
I was getting to the pointagain where I'm having my best.
Contracts put on the table in front of me.
And as soon as I started to saying, I wasgoing to walk away from the sport coaches
were putting way more money on the tablein front of me than they ever did before,

(19:20):
because they're like, he's not begging us.
We're begging him.
Funny how that works.
And still like it got reallytough towards the end.
And I was just like, Nope, not happening.
I'm at a life shift.
I don't have a wife.
I don't have a house.
I don't have mortgage.
I don't have any of these things.
I don't have bills to pay.
This is my time to make a career shift.
And that's what I'm going to do.
So I went back to school.
I got my MBA and, uh,started looking for what

(19:40):
was next in my life.
So many people don't recognizethat so many people don't recognize
that point in their life whenit's time to make that shift.
And I think a lot of people look likethey'll look at it, like they're running
away from something as opposed to therunning towards something more desirable.
Um, and, and I think it's.
Difficult when everybody around you isprobably saying like, Holy crow, like give

(20:02):
your head a shake, like what's going on.
Did you find that your circleof friends started to change?
Did you find that there is social changes?
There was definitely social changes.
Um, I definitely missed being aroundsuch a motivated, driven group
of individuals on a daily basis.
Luckily for me, I had a very good coregroup of individuals that were around me.
So.
You know, even though I wasn't on the teamanymore, we stayed in contact and kept

(20:25):
each other motivated, but there was timesfor myself where I was, like, I found it
challenging going back to school, payingyour own way through your, your master's
program on a short period of time.
It's challenging.
Um, I had also bought into a gym at thetime and I was restaffing our gym and
doing a whole bunch of like financially,I was watching my bank account and I
was really questioning my decisions.
Um, And yeah, there was a lot of momentswhere I was sweating and I was like,

(20:47):
did I really make the right decision?
But I, I knew I was having alot of injuries and I wasn't
passionate about it anymore.
And I wanted to make sure Istepped away from the sport on
my terms and I did step away.
Are there times where I look backand maybe I could have squeezed
out a few more years or whoknows what could have happened?
That's fine.
Yes, but I stepped away at atime where I was happy and.

(21:08):
Went through some rough years with upsand downs and have to go back to school
and not having that money coming in.
But here I am today living, I'mfortunate where I can truly say like
I'm living a career that truly alignswith my true passions, which is,
it's, I feel very lucky to say that.
So now you take the leap and you say, I want to be outdoors.

(21:28):
I want to be in the outdoor sphere.
How long did it take to, for youto move from being a professional
footballer to obviously went to school,to finding yourself back into the
outdoor sphere where your heart was?
It, it was a little bit less of a directtranslation transition for me actually.
So when I first retired from, uh,football and I went back to school

(21:50):
for my MBA, I bought into a gym.
I co owned a gym.
So I did the whole like specialisttrainer thing for a while, which worked
out really well just to keep me busywhile I was going through my MBA and
did cover some of the bills there.
Then I contacted alongtime partner of mine.
Uh, an athletic supplement companyand I told him, I was like, listen,
you guys aren't doing as well.
You should be doing in Western Canada.

(22:11):
I want to get back to Western Canada.
You're going to hire me totake over that region and I'm
going to bump your numbers up.
And they're like, yeah, you know what?
That's exactly what's going to happen.
So it, it worked out.
I created a position for me withthis company and, um, they believed
in me, I moved out back to BCand it worked out really well.
I think we more than doubled or tripledtheir sales in the area quite well.

(22:35):
And, and, um, it was a ton offun and I really appreciated
the opportunity with them.
But I will say that I just.
I thought I was gonna be reallypassionate about the industry
because everything else in my life.
So previous to football as well, I was, Iwas on the national track and field team.
I was a thrower.
I did shot and hammer.
Right.
Um, so athletic supplements and that sideof things was always really big for me,

(22:55):
but now it was less of a synergy for me.
It wasn't something thatwas so big in my life.
So I just, I wasn't in it.
And I just kept saying, I want to lookfor something, a new opportunity, see
what else, what other doors might open.
So I saw a posting from wild TV and itwas just this opportunity, basically.
To start working with the network and Isubmitted my information and, um, yeah,

(23:20):
it started to create some opportunities.
It was a lot of complications,definitely undervalued for
what I brought to the table.
Sure.
And again, a big leap, but I haddone it all at a time in my life
where it was okay and I didn't havethese big commitments financially.
So I spoke with my then girlfriend,now wife, uh, Kristen, and we were
talking about it and she said, yep.
Let's, you know, I'm okay tobe by your side through this.

(23:41):
So I started bottom level with wild TV,um, doing some hosting on the edge, which
is part of it again, just testing, like.
If you screw up, you're out.
Like if people hate you, you're out.
And that's a lot of pressurejoining a cast of individual
like Steve Ackman, who's had someamazing success in his career.
Right.
Um, and so that, and thenalso the sales opportunity.

(24:02):
So then I was selling marketingand advertising on the network.
Um, and then slowly over the years, Ijust kept my head down and kept grinding.
And now I'm the director ofbusiness development with wild TV.
I get to do a ton of great fun workwith wild TV, cowboy channel, Canada,
RFD TV, uh, the production companybehind it all recoil creative group.
And I'm filming my sixthseason with the show.

(24:24):
What was it like when he first stepped in front of the camera?
Did it come natural for you?
The exact opposite.
Yeah.
Tell me about
this one.
I, I am a, I think wetalked about it earlier.
When you're a big guy, you alwaysstick out and you're very self
conscious because you don't likebeing the center of attention.
And I'm the exact, like in school, Icouldn't speak in front of two people.

(24:44):
Like I could not speak infront of two individuals.
And that's something Irealized I was bad at.
So throughout my athletic career, Idid a lot of, um, talks at schools,
right to, you know, elementary schools.
And I started getting involvedin groups where we go around and
do motivational talks and things.
So I saw it as a weaknessand I developed it.
Um, but still that all aside.
When someone points a camera at youand says, act natural, you completely

(25:06):
forget like, what is natural again?
Like, what do I do with
my hands?
Yeah.
We're going to
film your boots.
Walk normally.
You're like, start side skipping.
You're like, I don't know,I don't know what I'm doing.
You trip over yourself because it'sso awkward and so weird to just
forcefully tell yourself, okay,be natural, say natural things.
So you're in the moment.
You're like, I have pressure to actsmart, to sound cool, to talk about

(25:29):
things that I don't necessarilyknow about because I feel like
I'm supposed Really knowledgeable.
And, uh, one of the best thingsI've learned through my career
is it's okay to be wrong.
Not know what you're talking about.
Fess up when you screw up.
Fail, right?
Because I've, Lord knows I'vefailed a lot on camera and made
a lot of boneheaded mistakes.
But now I'm at the point where, Ithink fortunately for me, I'm at

(25:50):
the point in my career where I'vescrewed up so many times and so bad.
I look back, I'm like, well, evenif today goes completely terrible,
it'll never be as bad as that day.
And it makes it way easier.
So it gets easier as you screw up more.
Do you get ripped on, on social media
when you make these screw ups?
Do you see it?
Do, do people?
Oh Lord.
Yeah.
I mean, you
definitely, um, you know, as, as soonas you get in a position where more

(26:13):
people are seeing you and watchingyou, uh, yeah, people rip on me.
The funny thing is most of thetime when people are ripping on
me, it's for mistakes that I'vealready ripped on myself for.
I've always been the toughest critic.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, people like you, you go ona hunt, you make a boneheaded mistake.
I can hide that and make it look likeI'm a superhero on camera and I never
make a mistake, but that's not real.
That's not authentic.
So yeah, roll it, put it in the camera.

(26:35):
And sometimes it's because I'mworrying about what do I need
to say to the camera next?
Are we getting the right angle?
What's happening?
Are we positioning ourselves?
Right.
Whereas I can't be fullyinvested at times in the hunt.
So you start thinking about toomany things and you make mistakes.
It happens.
Um, but yeah, you.
It's not all, it's not all rosesand rainbows when it comes to DMS

(26:55):
and messages, you see the odd meme
rolling around.
That's just part of thepackage, part of the package.
You know, I, I'm of the mindset ofyou don't have people ripping on you.
If you don't have peoplepointing out your flaws, you're
probably not trying hard enough.
You could be doing more.
Exactly.
The more people are.
Yeah, bashing on you, that means morepeople are knowing about you, right?
Nobody, what was it, there was an oldsaying where, yeah, nobody talks about

(27:19):
being significant or something, right?
So like, it's almost like you feelexcited when people start bashing you
in a weird way, but I mean, heck, I usedto, my favourite thing when I was playing
football was playing away games, and whenwe had the most haters in the stands,
because the best way to shut them up.
What's to be sitting there athalftime and just point at the score.

(27:39):
Well, what were you guys saying earlier?
So I loved going into a noisystadium where people were cussing
at you, shouting at you, and thenwalking off at the end of the game.
And it's just dead quiet.
I love haters.
I love it.
So that doesn't phase me at all.
It fuels you.
Exactly.
It makes me like, yeah, youknow, and sometimes you do
get great advice from haters.
Like some of these people call youout and you're like, you know what?

(27:59):
You're right.
You said that in a malicious way.
You wanted to hurt me, but I'm like, Yeah.
That's actually like some of thebest coaching I could have got,
right.
Oh, I like that.
I got to imagine, so you take somethingyou love, you make it a business, the
business of what you love can startto leach some of that enjoyment away.

(28:20):
And if you've got a camera in frontof you and you've got a film crew,
or if you've got to film yourself,can take you out of the moment.
Do you ever find yourself on huntswhen you're like, man, I sure wish I
didn't have a camera crew here with me.
Yes,
I should probably feel guilty for sayingthat, but, um, I love Solo hunting.
One of the biggest things I love aboutthe outdoors is just your, I call

(28:42):
it like connecting by disconnecting.
So like when you get in tune withnature, when you sit out there and
you're sitting next to a tree as thesun rises and nothing knows you're
there and you watch the birds andthe squirrels and all that start to
wake up, you feel this connection.
When a camera's there, it's verydifficult to get that because
you're trying to think of so manydifferent things at the same time.
Hmm.
I'm getting better at it.
The longer I've been doing this whereI can, it's becoming more natural.

(29:05):
Um, but it definitely does takeaway from the hunt at times.
Um, I still hunt.
So we film, I'll film, youknow, six, seven hunts a year.
I come home and there's timeswhere I come home for a hunt.
And my, my wife definitelyunderstands that I need that time.
In the bush because that's, I, I goback, I get grounded and I come home
and I'm a better person and I'llcome home from a hunt sometimes and

(29:28):
things might not have gone the rightway or, you know, it's challenging
or, you know, Whatever it might be.
And my wife looks at me and she'slike, you need to go on out.
Like you need to go into the mountainsfor a few days, go on the wine,
decompress, and then come home.
Cause then you're goingto be the Joe we need.
And, and it works well,but she recognizes it.
And I certainly recognize it becausealthough I'm hunting and we are, don't

(29:49):
get me wrong, I I'm extremely fortunateand lucky to be doing what I do, but.
It's not the same hunt experienceas it would be if I didn't have the
camera and we, if we weren't filming.
I can appreciate that.
And you know, this is the secondtime that you've brought up just
in this podcast about your wife andthe support that she's provided.
Yeah.
Um, where do you think you'd be if shejust said, no, I, I don't think this

(30:12):
is a direction we should be going.
You don't have my support on this one.
Fortunately, she's neverput me in that situation.
That's a very challengingquestion because, um, like
I absolutely love my wife.
She's been an amazing support for me.
And I think a big part of what worksso well in our relationship and why
we work so well together is becausewe support each other so well.

(30:35):
So if she was a type of personthat wasn't supporting me in my
passion, she wouldn't be my wife.
A hundred percent.
So that's a very, Work aroundway back at your question, but
that's the truth about it, right?
Is if she was telling me we can'tdo this, it's not about living the
lifestyle that makes us both happy here.
She wouldn't be the woman I married.
So, um, you know, we bothagreed to a lifestyle.

(30:57):
It's challenging at times, butshe's fully supportive of what I do.
She gets it, um, and yeah,it's, it's challenging.
And I, I wouldn't necessarilybe here doing what I'm doing
without her, but I don't thinkshe'd ever asked me to step away.
So a few things that we're talking about on the boat and
I'm like, okay, maybe we should stopand we can pick it up again here when
we're talking, some of your sponsors,some of the people that you work with,

(31:18):
I'm genuinely curious about on X Hunt.
I tried it a few years ago in, uh, inCanada, and I think they were kind of in
their infancy in the, in the Canada side.
Um, Can you tell me about OnyxHunt, how you use it, what's good.
What, what are your favoritepieces of that, that puzzle?
Yeah, I will say Onyx, um, so Dylan,when, like when they shifted and came

(31:41):
up into Canada, they did a bit of atest where they were in Alberta and
then they were expanding a little bitand I think they tried to push in, they
might shoot me for saying this, but Ithink they tried to push in a little
too early where they didn't realize someof the technology and the uses that we
use up here in Canada is very differentthan what they use in the U S right.
So we need certain things.
Different for our style of huntingand our regulations than they had.

(32:04):
So it was a learning experience.
Right.
And, um, I think the earlyplatforms were not successful.
And then one of the biggest things, soyes, we, we are partnered with Onyx, but
one of the things I really liked aboutthem is we started talking early on
about what they wanted to improve on itand they came to us and said, what are
the things that we need to do to tailorour services to the Canadian space?

(32:24):
So I really appreciated that aboutthem and they're working on it.
Are all the changes overnight?
No, but there's constantdevelopment on it.
Um, but I have found a lotof advantages with regards to
their e scouting opportunities.
Being able to find different areas, setparameters where you can see certain
hillside gradients, slopes, differentaltitude ranges, things like that
you can see over the years I've beensuccessful in these types of areas.

(32:48):
And then.
Set those parameters and it'll highlightareas on the map across the province
that might be similar for that.
So like something likethat is really good.
So you can go, okay, drop my pinevery year, and then you can slide
up and down like hillside gradientsor sun exposure, degrees of
exposure, different things like that.
And it'll highlight and you go, okay,this green patch right here, that's
highlighted here is where I've had a lotof my success for mule deer or black tail.

(33:10):
And then you can zoom out andyou can see other areas that
are highlighted that same.
Oh, that's cool.
Um, so that, or there's somefeatures where you can go on.
From here, I can pull it up on mye scouting on my phone or on my
computer and click on a hillside andthen click a button and it'll show
me based on that elevation, whichother spaces in that area I should
be able to glass from that hillside.

(33:31):
So we've all done it where you're inthe mountains and you go from down
here, it looks like if I hike to thatridge, I can get there and I'm going
to be able to glass this certain area.
You've got a bowl you want to see.
This app will actually, like theirplatform will give you the opportunity
to see, will you be able to seeinto that area from this ridge?
Oh, that is cool.
So e scouting has got somereally cool features and those
are just small, small details.
Another thing that I've really foundbeneficial that's very easy to get

(33:53):
into is how accurate their tracking is.
So they take a lot of pride in makingsure that real time tracking is very true.
So I've used it, um, bluffed out inthe dark, coming out of hunts, fogged
out, going through swamps and you gothrough, and you know, if you go a
few yards, either side of your path,you're going to be way steep in water,
or you're gonna be falling off a cliff.
Right.

(34:13):
And, uh, I've been in situationswhere I can't see anymore.
It's gotten foggy, whateverit might be, or dark.
And I follow that blue line andI'm walking past the same rocks.
I walked past on the way in.
Whereas on some of the other apps, causeI've run a lot of apps over the years.
Sure.
Other apps, you're like,okay, I'm on the same Ridge.
I'm in the same ballpark, but Imay be 20, 25 yards off my path.
There are times where thedifference in 25 yards means did

(34:33):
you get bluffed out coming out?
And you got to spend an hour backtracking.
Like there's somesketchy stuff picking up.
So that, and then also I was tellingyou, um, for rifle hunting or for archery
hunting, When I shoot in a direction,you've quite often range that animal and
you have some landmarks in that direction.
So I'll pull up my phone after my shotand I'll range that spot and then I'll

(34:55):
drop a pin at that exact range withthose landmarks from where I am and more
often than not, when I go to that pin,Within five or 10 yards again, cause I'm
not the exact spot, but within five or10 yards of that pin I've dropped, I've
found, you know, where the animal atpoint of impact has dug deep and their
footprints are deeper in the ground.
So I've been able to track animalsor start finding blood or, or do

(35:17):
things like that or mark my arrow.
That is so useful.
Cause we've all done it whereyou look at a hillside and you're
like, okay, it's by that red tree.
I just got to find that right tree.
You get over there, youcannot find that red tree.
Not for the life of you.
Bye.
Bye.
You drop a pin and now you go andyou look at your phone, you're like,
if you can trust that spot and go,okay, if I go right to that pin and.
Holy cow.
I'm standing by thetrunk of that red tree.

(35:37):
That's huge in my opinion.
So I heard, and I, I don't know if it's a newer
technology or how it communicates.
Uh, I heard it specifically with a pairof SIG binos with a laser range finder.
I don't think it was a kilo.
I think it's a different one, butit'll talk directly with on X and
it will, if you range rate to itand it'll tell you don't even have
to drop a pin, it'll do it for you.

(35:58):
Sorry, Vortex, but it's, it's a Leopold.
Yeah, my buddy, actually, funny story.
My backup quarterback at Washingtonstate is high up with them.
So he's, he's pretty high up with them.
He was in sales and now I think hemight be in the product development
side, but, uh, a great guy, but he wasactually telling me about that feature.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I am, I am a vortex guy,but, uh, so don't shoot me.

(36:23):
Um, And then of course your hat there, you're
wearing, how do you pronounce that?
Kee fuh roo?
fah roo.
Maybe.
That's how I say it.
Nobody's told me to shut up.
I, I've looked at their packs.
I've been looking at it for a while.
It's going to be the next pack I get.
Um, what would you suggest?
You're a similar, similarsize to what I'm, I am.

(36:44):
What would you suggest for me?
Um, I've had a lot of successwith Kee fah roo packs.
So I used, I've ran a lot of packsover the years and I had issues with
hot spots and Issues, getting a heavyload coming out of the mountain secure.
Um, you know, there's always thatlittle bit of give in a bag and a
wobble, which makes you so like, ifyou're coming down a steep ridge,
any little shifting in that weighton your back is what's going to lose.

(37:06):
You're going to lose your balance.
Throw an ankle, blow a knee,something bad's going to happen.
So yes, the faroo bags have beenknown to be maybe a pound, pound
and a half heavier when empty.
But my ability to make 150 pounds onmy back or 175 pounds on my back feel
like a hundred pounds or, or 75 pounds.
Mm.
Because it's secure and pulledtight to your body is where

(37:27):
those backpacks will shine.
Mm.
Whereas those lighter backpacksare really good, you're gonna
have an, you know, a pound and ahalf less when you're going up.
But when you come down.
125 pounds can feel like 200 poundsbecause it's like a barrel of water
right on your back that's sloppingand shifting as you're coming down.
So that's personally forme, for my style of hunt.
That's why I prefer far stuff.
And it's built bomber proof.

(37:48):
Like if you see some of the stuff, I'veput those bags through . I'm a meathead
and I like to push myself and, andI've loaded my backpack like stupid,
stupid halls and have not been able tohave any of those bags fail on me yet.
But, um, my old favorite for my day huntsand my day packs was the hellbender.
That easily accessible meat shelf.

(38:08):
Like I had, I was telling you, Ihad a full rack of elk ribs, a bag
that had backstraps, tenderloins,and some neck meat, and then a full
Quarter all strapped in there at once.
Plus my hunting gear, plus my gun,plus my spotter and my tripod.
And I held that out with the hellbender.
I've taken full DRO, strapped likecross body in there, my wife's
bear, a full bear in that backpack.

(38:30):
This year I've tested out, um, the manimaland then the new Absorica is going to
really get the Absorica has got somenew type of pocket options for them.
And it's really versatile froma day hunt all the way up.
It's what I'm going to use on mystone sheep hunt this year, or on my,
I should say, goat and caribou hunt.
I'll be in stone sheep country, but I'mreally not planning on shooting a stone.
So we'll see what happens, but it'sgood for, it's good for short term

(38:53):
hunts and really good for long term.
And so that's one of the promising ones.
But, um, Yeah, without going too deepinto it, their backpacks, basically, you
can find something that works for anystyle, but if you're someone that does
plan on having some big, heavy packouts,that's where their backpacks really,
truly shine is they can do the work.
They're bomber, they're bomber.

(39:14):
They can haul they're made to work.
Um, You know, like I said, you mightsacrifice that extra pound, pound
and a half going up, but coming down,you're going to have that security.
Like you're almost going to, you'renot going to forget you have 150 pounds
on your back, but you're not going tohave that where it feels completely
separate from your body, it feels secure.
If it moves, it's causeyou're already moving.

(39:35):
You're not going to have thatwhere you start leaning out from
a hillside and then your backpack.
Slips a bit, because sometimes thatlittle nudge is just enough momentum.
And that's why you go down the hillside.
Oh, I've been injured that way.
Yeah.
Um, so people will lookat your social media feed.
They'll look at the, the show, the edge,and they'll see the highlight reels.

(39:55):
What are some of the challengesthat they're not seeing and
how do you deal with them?
The challenges in everything,
everything, um, I mean, from sneakingaround the bush with a camera guy, an
extra person or two in the field withyou at all times, it's a huge challenge.
Um, just the logistics ofthat logistics of travel.

(40:16):
Another thing that I definitelyunderestimated Was I had success hunting
previous to being with the show, but, andI'd go on these hunts and go, Oh my God,
that would have made such an amazing show.
I should have filmed that.
It would have been so cool.
But you forget all of the hunts thatyou go on that aren't successful, right?
You're planning out as I, you'reexpected to film six or seven

(40:37):
successful hunts in a season.
That's a big season.
Now, not only are you supposed tohave six or seven successful hunts,
You're expected to harvest animalsthat are quote unquote, show quality
or industry standard animals, right?
So you're supposed to six or sevenhunts that are above the average
and that are impressive hunts.
I don't have the financial meansor the show budget to be able

(40:58):
to do a lot of guided hunts.
Now, don't get me wrong.
We do some guided hunts, but a lot of themare self guided over the counter competing
against everybody else on the Hill.
And you somehow have to let other, like,Let a lot of stuff walk, have these
higher standards and have the successin a short period of time, because
camera guys aren't cheap and all of thisstuff, like there's a lot of investment

(41:19):
that goes into the show production andyou have all these people that expect
you to exceed expectations, right?
So there's a lot of pressure asidefrom not sounding like a complete
idiot, which I'm really good at.
Thank God we cut like 90percent of what I say on camera.
Um, but not sounding like an idiot,um, not making too many boneheaded

(41:40):
mistakes, checking all the boxes,having that successful hunt.
And then for some reason, peoplelove to watch successful people fail.
So for some reason, right,everybody wants to like.
You want to be the person that'sbad mouthed at the waterhole.
Like, right.
Cause that means you're successful,but everybody's looking there and
they're like, man, what can I pickapart about what this person does?

(42:03):
How can I knock them down a peg?
How can we, so you get a lot of haters,you get a lot of backlash, but there's
a lot of benefits that come from it too.
You know, I, A fellow, I know he's a head of training for
hunter education and firearms trainingin the Bavarian region of Germany.
And he talks about, he was telling mea different, uh, styles of hunts and

(42:28):
what, what they consider acceptableand their different levels of training.
And, but one of the thingsthat really struck me was.
In North America, the hunter will goout and they'll show them on the show.
And if they're successful, they're thehero and they got all the hero shots.
And, but over there, he says,when the hunter is successful,
it's now a very expensive endeavorbecause drinks are on him.

(42:49):
He's got to be helping everybody else out.
The cook, the people who, uh, helpset up the camp, the, uh, the guides,
if they have guides or everybody elsearound them, and it's not the hunter
that's celebrated, but rather the hunter.
The support crew all around the hunter,which I thought was a really interesting
way to, to look at it because the hunterwould not have been as successful without
all of that help that got them there.

(43:11):
No, a
hundred percent.
I
think there's a big part of, um, youknow, like I mentioned, I do some hunts
completely solo, or I have a cameraguy that comes along, just follows
me in films, I've self filmed somestuff, um, which is just a completely.
Different can of worms, not acamera guy, but, uh, no, there's
a lot of people behind the scenes.
I mean, even the footage we bring back.

(43:31):
So the camera guys have, it's a lotof pressure for a camera guy to be
able to capture everything we'redoing, wake up, put up with us.
I'm passionate about getting out thereand hiking up and down because I'm trying
to hunt an animal and like the switchand you're in the, now all of a sudden.
A camera guy has to follow my stinky,grumpy butt around and somehow find
the same passion that I'm able to do.

(43:52):
So like I can get up over richbecause I've got adrenaline
pumping through my system.
You got to have a camera guy that'sequally passionate, capturing
the moment and capturing all.
Then you have to havea post production team.
I don't do my own editing.
So post production teamthat can take that vision.
Put it onto the screen andtell the story of the hunt that
you were on in a tasteful way.
Mmm.
Do justice to the animal, not dojust a whack and stack episode.

(44:15):
Show the appreciation, help ourviewers feel like they're there.
There's a lot more to it thanjust Go out and have a successful
hunt every now and then.
And it's like, you got to succeed.
The network's like, theydon't want you to fail ever,
ever.
See, I always thought that was one ofthe neat things that, um, and I, I'll
be guilty of not watching a lot of TV.

(44:35):
I don't watch a lot of differenthunt shows, but meat eater, when they
started coming out, they found successin telling the story and not always
having to be successful on, on the hunt.
And I, and I've seen a shift and Idon't know if it was meat eater or if
it was other shows or it's just thezeitgeist, but being able to tell the
story of the failure, I think is just aspowerful as having, having that success.

(45:00):
I, I definitely think there's arelatable, uh, aspect to that where
the average individual and mostpeople do fail on a lot of hunts.
So it's very common tohave a lot of failures.
So it's, it's relatable.
And if there's, there's somevalue, so lesson learned.
Um, what you would do differently nextyear, something taken from the experience.
Absolutely.
It can still go.
And don't get me wrong.

(45:20):
We do air episodes where we don'tharvest enough or we don't kill.
Right.
That's, that's not a faux pas,but the thing is, everybody
says, well, we want the, like yousaid, everybody wants a story.
We want to see the failures as well.
The ratings don't lie.
People, we can see people tunein and they're like, Oh, this
doesn't seem like it's going well.
And then the episode airs again and nobodywatches it the second time, but everybody

(45:42):
goes, we wanted to see that stuff.
You air it.
Nobody sees it.
Your ratings plummet.
That's a good way to come off the TV.
So it's, it's people say they respect andwant something, but the numbers don't lie.
And then I'll like, so that's,that's the cold reality of it.
But like we like, I like.
Being able to share the truth behind it.
I screw up a lot.
I make mistakes.

(46:03):
I learned from it.
I mean, for me, I feel better puttingsomething out there like that.
I feel like that's something like myson one day will want to see, like,
you know what, dad wasn't perfect.
He may, I mean, he'll see that a lotin one of the years anyways, but, uh,
yeah, like I think that side is youwant to balance the, The reality of it,

(46:25):
the blown stocks, the mistakes, all ofthat stuff, but still have the success
because the truth is that's what fillsseats, which is a cold, dirty truth.
Well, that, and that's interesting because from my perspective,
not really being in that industry,I would think like, you're right.
The numbers don't lie andI don't see those numbers.

(46:45):
I don't, I don't see that side of it.
And I would just naively think,Oh, tell the story, put it out.
You could have a wholeseason of unsuccessful hunts.
I'm not,
I'm not like.
So historically, maybe there will bea transition or a shift at times, and
it definitely probably just puts a lotmore pressure on like really quality
content or, you know, storytellingto be able to pull it through.
Like look at Steve Rinella, that man,he, his background is in journalism.

(47:08):
Right.
So he's a wordsmith.
He can.
Talk to you about watching paintdry and you would sit there and
watch him talk for an hour, right?
The way he invites you into a storyand describes everything is beautiful
and you just can't stop right?
Whereas I am a football player likelike a journalist who has a way with
words and a guy that used to smash hishead against other guys for a living

(47:30):
so I Don't have that Ability there.
So play to your strengths.
Tell me about guided hunts.
So I've never, I shouldn't sayI've never been on a guided hunt.
I think it's a fantastic way to fast tracka knowledge acquisition by watching other
people who, who know what they're doing.

(47:51):
Uh, my guided hunt thatI Molokai for Axis Deer.
And I, I, I didn't know the rules.
My first out of country hunt.
Figured made it might as well go withsomebody who knows what they're doing.
And it was, it was a very differentexperience to how I've ever hunted,
which is, uh, hard and long and, uh,through a lot of, um, school hard knocks.

(48:17):
Uh, what, what, tell me what the worldof guided hunts and what people who
are used to doing either solo huntingor hunting in a remote wilderness
areas should, should be looking for.
That's, yeah, like, it wasan interesting transition for
me with my first guided hunt.
Um, But going out on a guided hunt,it is like, if you're fortunate, it's

(48:42):
like a friend is hunt hosting you andyou show up and you're like, I want
to be able to offer some insight, butunderstand that I'm not the person
that knows the most about this area.
The deer in this area, the elk in thisarea, the moose in this area might react
differently to what I typically do.
Um, don't go in acting like a know itall cause they do not appreciate that.
But, but be willing to like, listen,learn, Understand more, like I've

(49:05):
learned some amazing stuff about huntingthrough watching these guides, different
people and the way they react in areas.
So I like to go in and be asponge, but I'm not afraid at
times to offer insider suggestions.
But at the same time, if they tell meto shut up and sit back in my seat,
Joe, like, I'm like, okay, yeah, justthought I'd put my hand up for the
class, but it does make you better.

(49:26):
And you learn a lot, um, abouthunting different terrain, hunting
different animals and differentseasons, because they get to be
out there for the entire season.
We get to be out there for a week,10 days, a short period of time.
Um, so it's, it's a different experience.
I've learned a lot through it.
I think guides are, they have a wealthof knowledge, which is amazing and

(49:47):
really exciting to, to, to watch.
Um, but at the same time, I reallyenjoy my own hunts and being
able to do my own stuff as well.
What are some of the biggest things that you've learned
throughout your career with wildTV, or maybe from the guides?
Biggest things I've
learned throughout the years, throughoutthe year, that's, that's a very vague.

(50:07):
It's very vague.
I
left it open for a reason.
The biggest thing
I've learned is that I donot know much about hunting.
I am reminded of that over and over again in myself.
It's, I don't think I'll ever get toa point where I feel that I'm at a,
at a level where I can call myselfexpert in any, any part of hunting.
Cause just when I think I know agood amount, I learned that I, I'm

(50:29):
really low on the Dunning Kruger.
Absolutely.
And like, when you go into a new area,that species might not act the same way.
It didn't, they, they can act verysimilar, but there's no guarantee
that it's going to be the exact same.
So, and like I said, it's justunderstanding, truly understanding and
appreciating how much I do not know.
About hunting.
And like I said, I went home, Ithink I was four when my dad started

(50:50):
taking me out hunting and we're, youknow, blacktail hunting and grouse
hunting around here, things like that.
But I grew up, my mom ran thelocal mushroom buying station.
So we spent a lot of time inthe bush doing all of that.
We picked greens because my momlike made wreaths and garland.
So I spent so much time inthe bush when I was younger.
I used to think I knew a lot.
Yeah,
we, we were talking about mushrooms and it was always one of

(51:12):
these things in my head, these peoplethat go out foraging for mushrooms,
man, they got to be some drippy hippie.
Right.
And I'm like, who would want to goand do this until I finally did it.
And like, whereas it's beenall my life, it's amazing.
I'm outside, I'm connecting with nature.
These it's like an Easteregg hunt for adults.
It's so much fun, but thisis one of your, your passions

(51:33):
is, is foraging and mushrooms.
Yeah.
I mean, I was introduced, like I said,I was introduced to it at a young age
and I'm sure there's certain beingraised where you get that excitement.
It's like Christmas when you get tocome home with a big haul of mushrooms,
the whole family gets excited.
You feel good.
Everybody else feels good.
So like there's that tie in my book.
So I'm sure I get thoseendorphin releases.

(51:54):
When I find them on my own,because it's just that subliminal,
like you're checking that box.
Uh, but, but I just truly enjoyed it.
Like my mom, so it was apine mushroom buying station.
Um, there's a big marketfor them over in Japan.
You buy them, like there was timeswhen I was younger, we, we didn't
have a ton of money growing up.
Like we, it was small town living.
My father worked hard.

(52:16):
But we didn't have everything we needed.
So we hunted, we legitimatelyhunted, fished and gardened
everything to feed our family.
That's what we did.
Right.
Um, so we shot a lot of forks,spikes, all of that stuff.
It was true like meat hunters.
Yep.
Um, but mushrooming, you could be outhunting, blacktail hunting or mule
deer hunting, and you could happenacross a good patch of pine mushrooms.
And at the time, like I rememberat one point, They were over
120 a pound for a class one.

(52:38):
So like there's class onethrough five with pine
mushrooms, whether it's a button.
So the veil is all attached or partiallydetached and yada, yada rating scores.
So 120 plus dollars a pound.
And that's back when I was young.
So that's, I'm getting old.
That's a while ago.
So that's a lot of money.
Um, so now you could go on these hunts.
And not only pay for the gas, so it wasn'ta big hit, but like, you could come back

(52:59):
home, there'd be food on the table, andmoney in the bank, and everybody was
happy, so it was this really excitingtime, where, yeah, and then my passion for
that, it's just, it's still, even withoutthe money, it's just fun going out there
and picking mushrooms, and if you're goingto be out there anyways, a lot of the best
mushrooms grow in the fall, chanterelles,pine mushrooms, um, lion's mane, bear's

(53:20):
tooth, Cauliflower, mushrooms, likeall those bleats, any of that stuff,
that's all out there that time of year.
So you had some good advice talkingabout if somebody wanted to get into
mushroom picking and not necessarilyhaving to be an expert in everything.
What advice would you give tosomebody who wants to get into it?
Learn

(53:40):
one thing.
Species of mushroom.
Just pick one that you'reinterested in learning.
Look into, there's a lot ofinformation online regarding your
location and what mushrooms arereadily available in that area.
There's a ton of informationonline and pick one mushroom
that interests you and learn it.
And learn it really well, learn howto identify the species you want and

(54:02):
how to identify the similar mushroomsthat aren't the ones you want, because
sometimes they can be very poisonous.
Um, some of them might just causediscomfort or be bitter and you
don't want to mix the mushroomsbecause cross pollination of even
the spores on the mushrooms cansometimes make your stomach upset.
But learn one mushroom at a time.
And you can spend a whole year, youlearn one, and then in a few years,

(54:22):
you're going to have A big amount ofmushrooms, you know how to pick and
you're going to feel really confident.
To this day, I go out with friends andthey're like, what's that mushroom?
What's that mushroom?
I'm like, I call them lever rights.
I'm like, oh, that's a lever, right?
And they're like, oh,what's a lever right?
I'm like, leave it right there.
Cause I have no clue what theheck it is, but don't touch it.
We'll take a picture.
I'll look it up later.
Yeah.
Um, cause I don't know what a lotof them are, but the ones I do
know, I'm very, very confident.

(54:44):
I have a hundred percentconfidence can pick it.
Know how to cook it.
And I'm happy with that.
And I know the areas tofind them and everything.
And I likened it earlier to if somebodywanted to go hunting and they wanted to go
on their first hunting trip, feeling likethey needed to understand every species
ID, every sex ID, being able to age classa sheep, do all of these things before

(55:05):
they wanted to go hunt grouse or rabbit.
Forget about it.
Like you can figure out what a grouselooks like and go hunt grouse and then
go, okay, I'm really good on grouse.
Now I want to look up rabbit anddifferentiate, like find the difference
between a cottontail and differenttypes of rabbits or deer or moose
or, and then eventually work yourway up to the more complicated ones.
Cause yeah, like if you want to go pinemushrooming, the pine mushroom has a

(55:29):
very distinct smell, very identifiablefeatures, but there are some mushrooms
in this area, like one of them iscalled like the angel of death.
And if you eat it, if you eat like acap, an adult can eat a cap or half
a cap, go to the hospital, tell themyou ate that mushroom, they're going
to keep you comfortable till you die.
Right.
Like that's it, you're done,because it causes organ failure.
So, but.

(55:49):
That happened recently, didn't it?
Just recently there is a group of, Ibelieve, uh, they're Japanese jurists.
Did you hear about this one?
I I've heard
a few cases over the years, but I don'tknow if I've heard this specific case.
No.
Okay.
I think, what were they looking for?
There was, um, because one will grow ona hardwood and one grows on a softwood,
one will grow one type of tree, onewill grow on a different type of tree
and they, they look very similar.

(56:11):
And I think it was the, I think it was,and I wish I knew more about mushrooms
to be able to identify which is which,but, um, from what I understood,
there's a family that ate them.
It was a lookalike and they ended up, uh,
not making it.
It's, it's scary, but what I willsay is don't let that scare you away
from it, because once you do know,there is some very, very obvious, like

(56:32):
the veil on a pine mushroom attacheshigher up the stem, the veil on an
angel of death attaches to the bottom.
It's bulbous.
Um, the, the, Angel of death hasthese little square chunks on
top that'll kind of shake off.
Whereas a pine mushroom doesn't,pine mushroom has a very firm
stock, very pleasant smell.
Angel of death stinks, like it's gross.
Like, you smell it and you're like,why would I ever want to put that in,

(56:53):
like, why would I want to eat that?
Pine mushroom, you're like, I don'tknow if I'm going to get this back
to my kitchen before I bite into it.
But, you don't want to screw up on it.
So, but there's easier ones startwith like a yellow chanterelle,
start with, you know, a cauliflowermushroom, very distinct.
Start with a morel.
Morel.
I just picked morels for my firsttime this year and that makes me

(57:13):
feel stupid because they're amazing.
Oh, they're so
good and they're easy to identify.
And if you find a fresh burn,they're, they're abundant.
Oh, I love
morels.
Yeah.
So they're, they're great.
But yeah, there's really easy mushrooms,there's beginner level and then
there's advanced and there's once.
Not even necessarily advanced, but havemore of a risk if you make a mistake
and start with the easy ones, learnone or two a year, get really good.

(57:36):
And before long,
you're going to look like a pro out there.
I think that's good advice.
You know, the other one that gave me somecomfort was Hank Shaw, who said, there's
a lot of mushrooms that you can pick thatare going to give you an upset stomach.
There's only a few that aregoing to really do damage to you.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Like I talked about.
Right.
Again, it's one of the nicknames it has.

(57:56):
Anyways, um, it's not overly common.
I've found them in the same areaswhere I pick pine mushrooms, but
they're not overly common and Yeah.
So it's, don't let, don't letthat scare you away from it.
Just understand that you shouldappreciate and definitely put the effort.
Don't go out there and just willynilly, pick a bunch of mushrooms,
throw them in a basket and go, I'llfigure this out when I get home.

(58:17):
Oh, we got a, got a friend as well.
She went out for a hunt and pick somemorels and chewing away and eating them,
thinking these things are fantastic.
Not realizing you're supposedto cook them first, right?
You have them raw, didn't understandwhy her, and I think she was out with
her father, why her and her father had.
Uh, uh, some GI upset afterwards.
Yeah.
That'll get you moving.
Um,

(58:37):
Yeah, definitely.
Certain mushrooms are more palatable, raw.
Some you can get away withand some deer really like.
So if you're finding like, I've hada lot of success going into areas.
I talked about it earlierwhen we go hunting.
If I go into my pine mushroom spotand my mushrooms are all chewed down
to the stems, I got to keep my eyespeeled because there's deer in the area.

(58:58):
But if I go in there and I endup with a huge haul of pine
mushrooms, I get to win, win.
Um, but yeah, like deerwill love pine mushrooms.
Chanterelles grow in blacktail spotsa lot and those same mossy bluffs.
Um, so there's a lot of, you're goingto be there anyways, you might as well
ID a few mushroom species while you're
in there.
It's interesting when youstart, uh, realizing how
interconnected everything is.

(59:18):
Absolutely.
And interconnected while they're alive.
And, uh, blacktail with some
pine mushroom
sauteing on the side, like that, that hits the spot.
I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is there anything that we haven'ttalked about that we should be touching
on because right now I'm having adifficult time differentiating between
what we've talked about on the podcastand what we talked about for the

(59:41):
last number of hours on the boat.
Yeah, we've talked about a whole bunch.
Um, I mean, like I said, I'mtypically pretty open book.
I don't.
Shy away from any topicsand I'm pretty easygoing.
I don't have a, an agendawith us chatting today.
I'm just enjoying chat with you, learningmore about you and your background
and, and sharing some stories andhopefully offering some insights that
people can take something out of.

(01:00:01):
But, uh, yeah, I mean, we've talked aboutparenthood, we've talked about career and
misconceptions about what I actually do.
We've talked about, um, youknow, passions with hunting and
mushrooming foraging background.
Um, Yeah.
I mean, it's
okay.
Well, he's done
pretty decent so far.
I'd say,
well, what if we go forward a little bit, because

(01:00:22):
you know, everything will have ashelf life in its current state.
You can have different iterationsand change it over and have something
that can last longer and longer.
Uh, what does future Joe look like?
Future Joe.
I'm kind of, I guess I'm kind ofpushing into that realm right now.
Of, I'm really trying to introducemy son to the outdoors and I'm really

(01:00:46):
wanting to gain, and I've said quiteoften, like I get asked a lot, do you
really want your son to play football?
Do you really want your son to hunt?
I would be very proud if my son grewa passion for hunting and fishing.
But as long as he likes theoutdoors, I'll be happy.
So if he likes just being outdoors,if he just wants to hike, if he wants
to, as long as he has an appreciationfor the outdoors, I'm happy.
If we can share those experiencesthrough hunting and fishing and

(01:01:08):
everything, that's like the cherryon top, that's the gold standard.
So far I've been very fortunate.
He really enjoys getting out there.
He really enjoys hunting.
Like he'll come in here and grab mybinos and be like, let's go hunting.
Or like he sees dad's truck and he'llask me, like, I pick him up from daycare
and he asked if we can go on the boatand go crabbing or can we go hunting?
Or he understands when we're goinghunting and, and he really enjoys that.

(01:01:30):
So, um, for me right now, it'sthat side of things I'm involved
with, like wild sheep society, BC.
I'm on their board of directors trying tomake sure that a lot of our opportunities
that we have now are available.
To the next generation, thoseopportunities will be there that
the wildlife will be there to enjoy.
Um, so that's a lot of it.
Um, and then hopefully if I do agood job at that, it means I'll get

(01:01:53):
to hunt longer because he'll packmy stuff out of the bush for me.
I love it.
I love it.
So then we don't have to talkabout the next chapter too soon
because he'll be there with me.
And when my knees fail, he'llbe like, I'll take that for you.
Oh, that's amazing.
Yeah, but, uh, but yeah, Idon't see myself walking away
from the outdoors anytime soon.
If I'm, if I'm successful.
This is the type of thing where,
I mean,

(01:02:13):
I'll
work till I die and I just love it.
Joe, thank you so much forbeing on the Suffercore podcast.
I've really enjoyed our day.
I've really enjoyed the conversation.
Pleasure's been all mine.
Anytime
folks.
Thanks for having me.