Ep. 144: Armed for Safety: An RCMP Insider’s Fight for Self-Defense Rights in Canada

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Travis Bader (00:09):
Today's guest has nearly three decades of experience with the
RCMP, including roles in North Vancouver,federal units, and university policing.
He has trained throughout NorthAmerican firearms, national
security, counter terrorism, andboth public and personal safety.
He has a rich backgroundin criminal interdiction.
Welcome to the Silvercorepodcast, Ian Simm.

Ian Sim (00:32):
Good day, sir.
Nice to meet you.
Finally,

it is good to meet you, man.
We've had a lot of back and forththrough text message and email,
well, mostly text, I guess, say, andthen voice talking back and forth.
Yeah.
It's been a bit now, hasn't it?

Ian Sim (00:45):
Yeah.
And well, and I was going to tryand meet you earlier, but a month
of COVID kind of gotten the way.
Um, but then I realized we'vegot a lot of Friends in common.

Yeah.
We, we got a lot of mutualacquaintances and friends, don't we?
Yep.
Yeah, I think, uh, you were sayingyou watch your very first podcast
and that was, uh, the one with Seb.
Yeah, Seb Lavoie.
That's right.

Ian Sim (01:06):
Um, I, we've crossed paths a number of times in the RCMP over the
years, um, on the range, uh, empty handtraining course, um, some commonality
in, in, um, with some covert stuff.
Yeah.
Um, Yeah.

(01:27):
And then I talked to him, he'sbig with the podcasts and yeah, my
really, my first podcast I watchedlast night with you and Seb.

Well, I'm flattered to be your first podcast.
Um, what's kind ofinteresting here is recently.
So I, I traveled up north with mywife and we went to a, Uh, well,
I guess I can talk about it now.
Usually I leave the names aside, but it'salready been aired, but I went to Rachel
Attila's place and we recorded a podcast.
She's a professional rancher.

(01:57):
She's a professionaltrapper, professional guide.
And she had spent about four yearstrying to get an authorization to carry
a restricted firearm to protect herlife out in a remote wilderness area.
And of course the firearmsact regulations permits that.
And it says, if you're working in a remotewilderness area, you're not allowed to
Um, if you meet the certain requirements,you can go out and you can train.

(02:19):
And it's been massively well received,lots of comments, lots of people emailing,
lots of people contacting the office.
And one of the things that tends tocome up a lot is, well, that's all well
and good for somebody who's workingout in a remote wilderness area.
Why can't we defend ourselves?
Why can't we?
Stand up for ourselves in a similarway to how the Americans will stand

(02:42):
up for themselves in the Statesagainst a two legged predator.
Why is it only applicable forwilderness areas and remote areas?
And I think you have some backgroundin this and you've got a very proactive
approach to communicating information.
I've looked at some of the stuffyou've done within your policing

(03:02):
career and you, you've You operatea little bit differently than the
norm, which really intrigued me.
And I can go into that further in abit, but I'm going to let you chat.
Oh,

Ian Sim (03:14):
yeah.
Well,
self preservation is, isthe first law of nature.
Yes.
So, um, what the last millionyears, let's say, tens of thousands
of years, um, security of personis the first law of humanity.

(03:42):
You know, security of person, sectionseven of our charter, everyone has the
right to life, liberty, and security ofperson, not to be deprived thereof, except
in accordance with fundamental justice,um, section seven of our charter is, is
the right of all rights, without whichall your other rights are meaningless.

(04:03):
If you're not safe, yourother rights are useless.
Um, and it, and it's,it's security of person.

Right.

Ian Sim (04:15):
These are not group rights, collective rights, mob rights.
These are individual human rights.
Um, most Canadians can't tell youwhat section seven of the charter is.
I just call it the right to be safe,but it is the right of all rights.
Section seven.
Well, where did, where didsecurity of person come from?

(04:38):
UN declaration of human rights, 1948.
Security of person, Canadianbill of rights, 1960, security
of person, Canadian charter ofrights, 1982, security of person.
So security of person is a thing,been around for a long time.

(04:59):
And
we're filthy rich Western democracy here.
We've had it very goodfor a very long time.
Uh, we're still, you know, in aroundthe world, we're still one of the top
destinations that people want to live in.

(05:20):
And as a result, we have probablylost sight of, um, the concept of
Democracy, liberty, human rights.
Um, they just really haven'tbeen that much of a thing.

Why do you think that is?

Ian Sim (05:38):
Because we're a rich Western democracy.
We've had it good.
Um, we, we, we haven't faced, uh, youknow, um, wars and famine and pestilence.
I mean, COVID was a bit weird, but so,you know, we've done many things, right.
Some things were justmaybe good luck, right.
Uh, and we'll take it, but you know,I worked almost a decade, uh, at, uh,

(06:03):
UBC, University of British Columbia.
I'll meet kids out there raisingmoney for Amnesty International,
you know, say, Hey, how's it going?
Um, you know, what do you thinkthe most important human right
we have is under the charter now?
You know, a lot of, um, internationalstudents, some are American, so they're
not familiar with our charter, but eventhe Canadian kids, they're like, um, you

(06:24):
know, and they're out there raising moneyfor Amnesty International, which is a
race based, rights based organization.
And they can't tell mewhat the charter says.
Most people can't.
And, and I understand it.
And I just think that we needto perhaps put a little bit more
of that in our high schools.
Um, you hear rights all the time, right?

(06:46):
Everyone's got rights.
Everyone's claiming rights.
You know, you, you hear it atprotests, counter protesters, um, but.
The charter is the Supreme law of Canadaand the Supreme court of Canada will
assess our legislation, municipal,provincial, federal against the charter.

(07:12):
It's not perfect.
Um, you know, uh, there are,there have been countries where,
you know, um, 1930s Germany.
Um, a lot of what they did waslegal courts, judges, Western
democracy up until that point.
Um, you know, people stack theSupreme Court in the United States.

(07:33):
People kind of try and stackthe Supreme Court up here.
It's not perfect.
I get it, but you know, our SupremeCourt, And our system in Canada
is pretty good when you compareit to the rest of the world.

Yeah.
I mean, it's not going tostop people from complaining.
There's always going to bethings that can poke holes in.
I get it.
I've been guilty of it myself, butwhen we take that a little bit more
of a, uh, overview, take a stepback and look at it, there's a lot.
That is good with the system that we have.
And I think if people are properlyeducated as to how this system can work

(08:12):
for them and how perhaps the systemis designed to be, uh, to be used.
I, I, I'm hoping that will atleast in one small piece be where
this podcast can help people.

Ian Sim (08:27):
So I'm not going to change the educational system
in BC probably, uh, or Canada.
Um, but when I talk at, uh, I'vetalked at university classes before,
I've presented there, I presented atDouglas college criminology courses.
I presented and taught coursesat the justice Institute.

(08:50):
Um, the topic of rights often comes up.
I recently taught a class atthe Justice Institute on police
leadership for international students.
Okay.
Mostly lawyers from various countriesaround the world and inevitably rights
comes up because, you know, they're,um, most of them, uh, are, you know,

(09:12):
Uh, are, are so thankful to be in Canadastudying, many of them want to stay here.
And that's in large partbecause we have rights because
Canada isn't like back home.
So we do a lot of things.
Well, uh, I think history is important,the good, the bad, and the ugly.
And it's interesting that the,the international students

(09:36):
sometimes are more interested inour rights and sometimes no more.
So, and, and, you know, different,they're coming from different cultures,
different countries, India, Iran, Brazil.
I walked in a class, uh, that, that lastclass I taught and some of the students
stood up when I walked in the room.

(09:57):
Hmm.
As a sign of respect.
Yeah, I was stunned.
I like, I kind of looked overand I'm like, what's going on?
And then I quickly clued inas to what was happening.
They were a bit older.
Um, many of them were lawyers, um,but, but very polite, very respectful.
Um, it can get a bit, uh, Testy in withCanadian kids in Canadian classrooms.

(10:20):
I'm good with it.
Everything's on the table, A to Z, justlet's not yell and scream at each other.
So, and then working at the universityof British Columbia for almost a
decade, I had the opportunity to meetpeople from all over the world who
I never would have met otherwise.
And I get stuck rightin, Hey, how's it going?

(10:41):
Where are you from?
Um, some clearly aren't interested intalking to a uniformed police officer.
Um, many are.
Sure.
I was there during COVID, BLM,US election, you know, as, as a
white colonial settler cop, asI was, uh, called once or twice.

Um.
You've never heard that before, have you?
Right.

Ian Sim (11:06):
So, you know, I defund the cops.
All cops are bastards down on rec beach.
I mean, rec beaches is.
It's kind of an alienplanet on an alien planet.

Yeah.
A little microcosm unto itself.

Ian Sim (11:16):
You know what?
It's got a very, um, colorful clientele.
And I, I, I, I mean, Iwouldn't have it any other way.
Yeah.
I mean, that's part of the reason why Iwent to a university of British Columbia.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (11:27):
But we need to do a better job.
Um, with, um, our history,celebrating what we got right,
celebrating what we do right.
Um, and not forgetting,uh, lessons of the past.
Um, what to do and what not to do.
And I, I just, rights are a thing.

(11:49):
They're not going away.

Right.
You know, there's some people who wouldlook at the charter of rights and freedoms
and say, you know, it's fantastic.
We've got these rights enshrined andthere's other people who would look at
that and say, who is this governmentto say that this is our rights?
These are God given rights.
These are inalienable rights.
So I've heard people arguethat on both different sides.

(12:12):
Do you have thoughts on that?

Ian Sim (12:14):
Yeah.
I mean,
everyone wants the rights to go their way.
So is there a hierarchy of rights?
I think so.

Okay.

Ian Sim (12:27):
I think I've maybe alluded to what I think is the right of all
rights, which is the right to besafe, section seven of the charter,
everyone has the right to life,liberty, and security of person.
I don't know what order allyour other rights come in.
I'm just pretty sure that sectionseven is at the top of the list.

(12:50):
It's numbered number seven,but again, if you're not safe,
what good are your rights?

And I'll, I'll read it because I, I printed it out here, so
I'm somewhat familiar, but it sayseveryone, everyone has the right to
life, liberty, and security of theperson and the right not to be deprived
thereof, except in accordance withthe principles of fundamental justice.
So it's not an unfettered right.
They have some constraintsaround there, which they call the

(13:18):
principles of fundamental justice.
And I'm sure a lawyer would beable to opine further on that,
but it seems somewhat nebulous.
I

Ian Sim (13:29):
mean, was it true, uh, Winston Churchill that said, you know, democracy
is the worst political system we havein the world, except for all the others.
So it's imperfect.
Um, Um, you know, I'm, uh, I'm, uh, uh,perfectly imperfect human being, uh,

(13:54):
somewhat damaged by 25 years in policing.
Right.
I got yelled at a lot onrec beach during COVID.
I get yelled at occasionallywhen I presented classes, um,
and I'm like, okay, you're angry.
I get it.
It's university.
This is nothing new.

(14:16):
What are you angry at?
The past, the present, the future.
Yeah.
Oh, you just want to yelland that's okay, too.
I'm good.
Right.
Um, and that was mostlyAmerican and Canadian kids.
Um, from what I could tell,um, our international visitors
and the international students

(14:37):
thought we were rock stars.
We're down there doingfoot patrols on the beach.
Um, they're like, you don'ttalk, talk to the cops at home.
They will steal from you.
They will rape you.
They will kill you, all the above.
Um, and even the Irish kids, they'renot, they're not going to steal

(14:57):
their stuff, get raped or killedby the cops for the most part.
But they're like, yeah, you just,you don't talk to those guys.
That's a sad commentary comingfrom, uh, what we'd think is a, is,
well, what is a Western democracy?
The brain, you guys are amazing.
You're friendly, you'refunny, you're professional.

(15:17):
Um, and you know, before you knowwhat, it's, it's, it's photo time.
Um, and, and never really giveit much thought until I started
working at UBC and on Rick Beach.
Right?
So I I perhaps we just takefor granted what we have.
Don't give it much thought as tohow we got here, where it came from.

(15:38):
Um, yeah, the rights.
I mean, who gives us,who gives us our rights?
Does God gives us our rights?
I don't know which God, who's God,

right?
Who's God are we talking about now?
Um,

Ian Sim (15:50):
is it, uh, Trudeau Sr.
That gave 'em to us?
And, and brought them over, uh, in 82,um, is, is it, uh, the current government?
Well, no, it's, it's,it's none of the above.
Um, your rights are your humanrights, which are by definition,
minority rights are yours by virtueof being born into the human race.

What do you mean by minority rights?

Ian Sim (16:18):
So
your human rights.
Are a limitation onthe power of the state.

It

Ian Sim (16:28):
tells the state what they can not do.

Right.

Ian Sim (16:32):
And many of our rights, um, have been, um, developed
and explored by minorities.
In our community and by minorities,I don't mean like criminal law.
Um, a lot of our criminal law, uh,has, has been developed by people

(16:56):
being charged criminally and, and,and claiming a charter breach, uh,
search and seizure, for example.
And, um, all your rights around a lawyer.

Right.

Ian Sim (17:05):
Um, so a lot of our rights, uh, are stab, not established, but, but
explored and developed further fine tuned.
Sure.
Okay.
Thank you.
By criminals who, or people werecharged with criminal offenses.

Right.

Ian Sim (17:21):
So, and, and they are minority in, in most societies.
Um, other ones, LGBTQ.
Plus community, um, a minority, butyou know, they are fighting for what
they perceive to be their rights.

Yes.

Ian Sim (17:40):
So everyone in Canada can fight for what they perceive to be their rights.
Now, if it's in the charter, helpful.
It's in the Canadianbill of rights, helpful.
It's in the UN declarationof human rights.
Helpful.
Um, it might be in the Bible, helpful ifother Western democracies have similar

(18:03):
rights, um, Supreme court judges inCanada will look at similar systems.

Sure.

Ian Sim (18:09):
Um, including the United States, Britain, for sure, um,
where our common law comes from,where American law comes from.
Um, so, but at the end of theday, the Supreme Court can say,
yes, section seven of the charteris the Supreme law of the land.

(18:29):
We agree it's the right of all rightswithout which, you know, all your
rights, the rights are meaningless.
And this young lady, the guide, the guide,Um, who got her authorization to carry
for, um, to protect life in wildernessareas, a government could come down

(18:52):
the road and say, none, you're done.
And, and with the recent handgunfreeze, whatever that means exactly.
Um, so.
A new government could come in, they couldtake that away, they could expand on it.
At the end of the day, the SupremeCourt could say, they could say, Travis,
section seven of the charter statessecurity of person, you have the right

(19:19):
to, uh, an authorization to carry, acivilian authorization to carry anywhere
in Canada, including urban areas.
And the government of the day couldgo Notwithstanding clause, and
it's done, crushed for five years.
Right.
So the system is not perfect.

(19:41):
Rights,
some people think rights are kindof airy fairy left wing stuff.
Um, they're for everyone.
Um, if you can articulate to a judgethat there's been a charter breach or,
or an egregious breach of your rightsunder the charter, um, you may get your

(20:02):
hearing in front of the Supreme court.
Not you personally, I mean, it'llgo to Supreme court, perhaps.
So rights work for everyone, but theydon't work all the time for everything.
Um, I, I talked to some of the,my friends in Northern Arizona in
and around Gunset Ranch, right?

(20:22):
If you had one right to choose from,
would it be your right tocarry second amendment,
uh, or a woman's right to choose?
Pick one.
You get one.
Um, what's more important to you?

(20:43):
Um, so a lot of people willclaim they have rights.
Um, sometimes we disagree onwhat those rights actually mean.
But if you convince a judgeand then the Supreme court
justices, you've got your rights.

(21:04):
And so
let's say armored car guards, let'ssay we were going to expand armored
car guards in Canada by 10, 000guards in the next three years.
Um, it wouldn't make the news and theycarry a handgun openly to protect life.
Right.
It wouldn't make news.
It, even if you phone the news station,they'd be like, why is that news?

(21:29):
If we, if someone came out, a government,uh, provincial or federal said,
we're going to expand, um, the rightauthorization to carry for civilians.
By 10, 000 people in the nextthree years, that would be news.

That would be everywhere.
What one thing that goes through myhead and actually there's a bunch of
things going through my head, but, uh,I should probably have preempted all
of this with this isn't legal adviceand we're not lawyers and we don't
speak for anybody other than ourselves.
These are our opinions that we'regoing to be going through here.
So that kind of puts a big blanketover top of the conversation of,

(22:14):
uh, of protection for everybody.

Ian Sim (22:17):
Yes, obviously we're not lawyers.
Um, but you'll see people in theSupreme Court of Canada, lawyers on
both sides, arguing completely differentarguments, like polar opposite.
You know, if anyone thinks they canpredict how a Supreme Court case is
going to go, I mean, I don't know.

(22:37):
Best of luck.

Right.
Um, so.
Friend of mine is a, uh,a very well accomplished
lawyer, extremely intelligent.
And he says, you've, you've got theperfect case and you go to Supreme court
and you've got everything a hundredpercent, uh, perfect on your side.
You've got about 70, 30 chance.

Ian Sim (22:57):
And even if you win notwithstanding clause, Federal
government can go, yeah, sorry, too bad.
So
it's imperfect.
It's more perfect than many systemsaround the world, but it's not perfect.
And, and rights are like, so,you know, you will get people

(23:17):
on both sides arguing that, um.
Although armoured car guardscarry a handgun all day long
around Canada, no one cares.
No one gives them a second look.
You can't, or I can't carry

off shift.
I think there's a really interestingpiece of this, which I'm sure we'll talk
about in a little bit, but an armouredcar guard is not a peace officer.
People see the uniform, they seethe gun, and maybe they got an
armored car guard badge and they say,well, this is a special person and
armored car guard has the exact sameresponsibilities as a private citizen

(23:54):
when they're carrying that firearm.
They just happened to be working in someindustry where their primary activity
is a transport of cash or negotiables.
And they have a firearm there notto protect the cash, no, not to
protect any of the negotiables asto protect their life or life of
a third party from imminent dangerof death or give us bodily harm.

(24:15):
And that's it.
And as a private citizen, all of thesame rules that apply to an armored
car guard apply to a private citizen.

Ian Sim (24:23):
So the standard to carry a handgun today by a private citizen.
In British Columbia is the, the securitylegislation provincial, I believe

for

Ian Sim (24:33):
armoured car guards.

That's right.

Ian Sim (24:34):
That's it.
So again, and, and Canadians orBritish Columbians would have nothing
to say if they said we're going toincrease armoured car guards by 5, 000.
Mm hmm.
Um, but again, It's illogical.
A lot of the arguments and, and I get it.
Emotion is a thing.

(24:56):
Uh, anxiety is a thing.
Um, people may believe in whatthey're doing or promoting or saying,
uh, good intentions, the whole bit,but you know, does it stand kind of
the, just kind of the logic test?
Not really.
Uh, in opposing a civilian ATCand they go, Oh, America, south

(25:21):
of the border, rah, rah, rah, rah.
Well, the vast majority ofCanadians I've met don't
understand Canadian firearms laws.
They certainly don't understand, uh,firearms laws in other countries or in
48 different states south of the border.
They have an opinion as many people do.
Um, it can be like manytopics, an emotional one.

(25:46):
Um, and again, I understand it.
The, the, the, The mere thought ofviolence, um, can be distressing
to people, just the thought,and they've, and perhaps they've
never experienced violence.
If you've experienced violence Um, as avictim or on the other side, um, it can be

(26:12):
traumatic, very emotional, very stressful.
Um, so I, I get it.
People get nervous when theythink about their own safety.
It's understandable, but we should, weshouldn't be using these cute one liners.

(26:34):
Um, and, and, and we should helppeople understand the true pros and
the true cons of any legislation,particularly public safety legislation.
Misleading Canadians.
About public safety legislation,I have a problem with that.
I've spent my whole career and muchof my life in service to my community,

(26:58):
particularly around community safety.

I'm sure you've heard the, uh, the expression when seconds
count, the police are only minutes away.
And as a peace officer protectingothers, you can't be there
all the time for everybody.
And the one thing that I see thathas taken a massive hit over the

(27:24):
years seems to be the individual'ssense of personal agency.
There seems to be an abrogation,if I'm even using that word
correctly to abrogate control orresponsibility to a third party.
And.
The way that messages from mediaor government agencies will

(27:45):
communicate that is no, no, no.
You hang tight.
We'll help you.
No, no, no.
You don't, you don'ttake care of yourself.
We've got a crew that's specially trained.
That'll be there to take care of you,which is all well and good because there's
people out there that need taken care of.
And there's people out there that mightnot be the best advocate for themselves,
but to Push that so far to the pointwhere people feel they don't have that

(28:11):
personal agency, where they can actuallystep up and do something positive to
affect their life or their life of thosethey love that are around them, I think
is doing people a massive disservice,not just at the individual level,
but at the societal level everywhere.

Ian Sim (28:31):
Yeah.
We've.
Again, we've had it so good in Canadafor so long, and we still have it good,
although things are changing quickly.
I'm not going to be there.
I'm not a first responder.
I don't like the term.
I've never liked the term.

(28:54):
I won't be there probablywhen you need me.
Initially, if someone is going toshoot up a school, a street, a coffee
shop, um, and I'm sitting there inuniform, um, do my daily hydrational
activities, uh, they're going to shootme first and then get on with it.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (29:19):
Or they're going to sit and they're going to wait till we leave
and they're going to get on with it.
It might come back anotherday if they're short for time.
I don't know, but
we're the second or the thirdof the fourth responders.
Um, you and anyone around you,you're the first responder.

(29:41):
You are your own first responder.
Now I've been seeing that for a long time.
No one gives it much thought.
Um, if you survive the initial incident,call us and we'll come running.
Like we will move heaven and earth.
To get to a crisis, uh, accident, violent.

(30:06):
We will move heaven and earthto get there, but we won't be
there in time for everyone.
We can't.
Um, you know, it says, um,
there's, they're saying, youknow, you don't need guns
because, um, we have police

(30:31):
and, and we'll then, I guess youdon't need fire extinguishers
because we have firefighters.
Right.
And it's, I don't say it to be cute.
It's, it's just, it seems tobe pure, simple, clear logic.
Um, we get there after the fact,

(30:56):
and if you've called us, we'll do the bestwe can, but we won't be there in time.
You're,
you're on your own for a periodof time, and ideally that's
a very short period of time.
But it might be a bit longer than that.

The one thing that I see from my perspective and what's been
communicated to me by, by past studentsis this overwhelming fear, fear of getting
in trouble, fear of, uh, what couldhappen if they stood up for themselves.
And I, I've always lookedat that as an Odd fear.

(31:39):
I mean, we can stick our headin the sand and pretend that
nothing's going to happen.
And statistically in the past, wegot it pretty good here in Canada.
Right.
But at least be armed with the informationso that if something went sideways, we
have an idea as to what our constraintsare, how we can act, what we can do to

(32:01):
be able to protect ourselves and protectour loved ones and do so in a way where
we're not losing our house afterwards.

Ian Sim (32:13):
So the, um, to protect life is in the criminal code,
always has been, always will be.
Um, you can use as much force as necessaryto protect, uh, you and those under your
care from death or grievous bodily harm.
So first place to start'sthe criminal code.

(32:35):
It, it, it's not gone away.
You can defend yourself andyour family and strangers.
Um.

That would be the third party that they talk about.
The

Ian Sim (32:46):
third party.
Um, so.
Again, it, it, it's a thing.

Mm-Hmm.

Ian Sim (32:52):
It's codified.
It's, it's in the law.

Mm-Hmm.

Ian Sim (32:55):
It's not going away.
It never has.
Uh, and, and again, remember,
you're on your own for a little bit.
Um, for us to get there,we have to get the call.
So,

(33:16):
you know, we're what's,
we're, we're, we're only a momentaway from, uh, catastrophe.
Like we we're, we're, we're.
We're.
You know, seconds away from a switch ora trigger, a knife, a car, um, and for

(33:44):
us to get there, we need to get the call.
So it's murder in progress
and we might not know what'shappening until we get the call.
So Virginia Tech, a massacre, I thinkwhat 31 dead, nine minutes flat.

(34:06):
Sandy Hook, 28 dead, threeto four minutes flat.
We won't be there in timebecause we have to get the call.
So there's a number of thingsthat have to happen and that do
happen before we get that call.
And I kind of call it the death gap.
I haven't given it too much thought.
Well, I've given it a lot of thought,but just, I call it the death gap because

(34:30):
the incident starts, people are dying
and you can do a lot of damage ina very short period of time, as
we've seen, uh, over the years.
I mean, I was, I wasstudying active shooters.
Before the term active shooter existed.

Right.
Um,

Ian Sim (34:49):
I don't know why.
I'm just, my dad workedfor the federal government.
Fire protection.
Industrial safety.
It was always about safety,safety, safety, safety.
So I just grew up safety.
Safety, safety.
Yep.
Um, young boy interested in guns.
Neat, cool cops.
So it's just a thing I followed, but.
The incident starts,we don't know about it.

(35:12):
Right.
People are scrambling for their lives.
People are dying.
Um, eventually calls come in,I don't know, 30 seconds, a
minute, maybe two minutes.
Depends.
Um, frantic calls, right?
Uh, uh, the dispatchers are tryingto find out what's happening,
where you are, what's youraddress, what building are you in?

(35:33):
They may or may not know those answers.
Mm hmm.
Um, we're going to, we're goingto start getting a dispatch, you
know, shots fired somewhere, or itcould be another tool that they use.
Um, and, and when we have an ideaof a location, roughly, we're going

(35:55):
to start going, but we got to pullout, we got to get dispatchers
have to dispatch us the call.
We have to pull over in the road,uh, throw on our, our hard plates,
uh, get our gear ready quickly.
Then we got to fight our way,maybe through rush hour traffic
to get to a general location.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (36:13):
And if it's, um, if it's a university or college, huge campus,
a rabbit's warren, um, do studentseven know what building they're in?
Do they know what room?
And it can happen anywhere.
So, I mean, again, we'll moveheaven and earth to get there, but
there's a line for us to get there.

(36:35):
How do we, as with traditional policeemergency response, Get there quicker.
And I don't know that we can, partlybecause of the gap, partly because of
our resourcing levels, partly becauseof the time that it's going to take us
to get there through rush hour traffic.

(36:58):
So is that good enough or is there someway we can address and reduce that gap,
but uniform policing aren'tgoing to be the ones to do that.

It's that education piece.

Ian Sim (37:15):
It's, it's a scary thought,

right?

Ian Sim (37:17):
Right.
Like, I mean, I, I, I,Um, this is my profession.
I spent my whole life, um, withcommunity, doing community safety work.
Right.
Um, and then I, I, I presented classes.
I teach a little bit, I've neverstopped reading for 45 years.
Um, I've been trained in, youknow, active shooter, IR, indoor,

(37:38):
outdoor, I'm a firearms instructor.
I was shooting down at, JeffCooper's, uh, Colonel Cooper's
gun sit ranch in the eighties.
Um, I kind of live and breathe this.
Um, like I said, uh, Seb and, and, andother coworkers, you know, we've got a lot
of different people all working towards.

(38:00):
Community safety or, or whatsome might term public safety.
And we all contributein, in different ways.
But at the end of the day, wheneverything has failed, deterrence
didn't work, detection didn'twork, um, disruption didn't work.
And these

(38:21):
things will fail.
We will never get them all.
Um, what now?
So it's kind of a scarythought for the public.
They're like, Oh crap.
Um, we are kind of on our ownnow, thankfully, the chances of
these things happening, even inthe states are statistically low
and, and some will argue that, well,we can't have you carrying a handgun.

(38:45):
Uh, I can't even carry myservice pistol off shift.
I'm fully trained with specialty courses.

You can, they have a, they have from, no, I'm no lawyer, but
if you get permission from a supervisorhas always been in there, I don't know
what makes, let's say your supervisor,More important than somebody else's
supervisor to say that you could protectyour life, but somebody else can't.
That has always, uh, struck me assomething that was included to help get

(39:17):
law enforcement support for some of the,um, some of the bills and some of the laws
that we're trying to be pushed through.

Ian Sim (39:26):
So, um, there are police officers that carry off shift.

Sure.

Ian Sim (39:31):
Um, Some with permission, some without.

The old saying, I'd rather be judged by 12 and carried by six, right?

Ian Sim (39:41):
But it's, it's too bad that the most professional people that
you call to try and save your life,the lives of your family, your kids,
people around you, um, could get intotrouble, uh, professionally and possibly
legally, uh, for carrying off shift.
Uh, some carry, Um, because they'reon call, um, a lot of, uh, police

(40:04):
officers take their, uh, servicepistols home because they're doing
overtime on nights off, days off.
Um, some put it in thelock box and carry it home.
Some, um, leave overtimeshifts or go to overtime shifts
wearing their uniform armed.
Um, but generally, um, you know, you'llbe hauled up in front of the boss and,

(40:29):
and potentially phone a, uh, face a cop.
Code of conduct investigation.
If you're caught carrying offshift now, how are you going to
get caught carrying off shift?

If you have to use it.

Ian Sim (40:39):
Okay.
So if, if, if you're a rockstar and you,and you use it well and you save lives,
I'm quite sure the organization will,um, will embrace you with open arms.

Right.

Ian Sim (40:50):
If you make a mistake or get it wrong.
Oh yeah.
You're done now.
And again, I should, I shouldsay, uh, um, I am not speaking.
On behalf of the RCMP, I am here as aprivate citizen who's, you know, most of
his life has been in and around publicsafety, community safety, personal safety.

(41:11):
They're all different.
So yeah, I'm not speaking onbehalf of the organization.
This is Ian's opinion, um, but basedon 45 plus years of, of, um, academic
schooling, uh, and, Being in theprofession for a quarter of a century.

You know, my goal with the podcast that I did with Rachel
was to normalize a process forsomething that is, is lawfully allowed.
Uh, back in the day, uh, the nationalfirearms association, I believe was set
up by Dave Tomlinson, Dave Tomlinson.
He's passed on now, but.

(41:54):
Um, he was a clever fellow and he createda cheat sheet for getting an authorization
to transport through your ATTs.
And in the ATT form, we would saythings like from what times of the day
will you be transporting a firearm?
And, uh, what locationswill you transport it to?
And.
Uh, what days of the weekwould you be transporting?

(42:15):
And people would be like, well,you know, I only go to the range on
the weekends and they fill it outand, and the range closes at six.
And so I should be home by seven.
And so that's the time they fill it out.
And what they ended up doing was if theircar broke down or the things went late,
they'd find themselves in contraventionof the law based on this form.
So Dave says, um, 24 hours a day, right?

(42:39):
That's when you're goingto be transporting it.
You want it for the maximum lengthof time, every day of the week,
all approved gun clubs and ranges.
And everybody started filling out theirforms in that way to the point where the
firearms program started issuing ATTswithout anyone having to fill that out.
It was just normal.
Everyone knew, yep, here we go.
We do it.
And it, I don't know why that didn't clickon me sooner, but with the authorization

(43:02):
to carry, uh, for wilderness and armoredcar guards and people working, uh,
myself personally instructing people.
And then my school Silvercorehere instructing people who've got
a hundred percent success rate.
I thought if we template that.
And everyone who's qualified and workingin these different areas, it makes
it just as easy as those ATTs werein the past for people to go through.

(43:26):
And I think going one step further, havingconversations like this will normalize
the concept of what the charter ofrights and freedoms section seven says
that we can do in both the individual'smind, as well as any authorizing body
for let's say the RCMP firearms program.

(43:47):
If they're issuing an ATC forprotection of personal life,
which they have the ability to do.
They have done in the past.
And we've worked on, it was a gun store.
And at the time there was threatsbeing made to different stores and
organized crime was saying, look, we'regoing to come in and do something.

(44:09):
And so people were rightfully.
Uh, concerned.
I think there was one on the island.
Uh, there was a, I think it was ahusband and wife that ended up, uh,
getting shot at one of these gun stores.
I'll have to find the exact details.
One of the listeners will have it there.
People are getting concerned about it.
Uh, firearms programsays, okay, not a problem.

(44:30):
You've met the training, you'vedone the training, the same kind
of stuff an armor car would do.
Guard guard would do.
Yes, there is a threat out there andwe've, we've been able to identify it.
And, you know, at ABCD all the wayas it went through, but there is one
caveat in there and it said, if policeprotection is not adequate and the
firearms program turned around and saidto these individuals who are applying.

(44:54):
All you have to do is get a letter fromthe chief of the police in your area.
And this time it was the Surrey area.
So get the chief of police out in Surrey.
Just write us a letter sayingthat police protection in Surrey
is not adequate to protect you.
And.
Consequently, no police chief is going tosign that no one's going to say we can't

(45:14):
protect you and they weren't issued it.
And I thought it was kind of a cheesyway for this system to work around
being able to, um, issue peoplewho are trained, qualified, had a
threat, all the rest, um, by usingpolicy to, to try and circumvent it.
And my hope is by talking about thesesorts of things, maybe it can normalize.

(45:38):
The thought process of, okay, who arewe to say that somebody else can't
protect their own life, particularlyif we've covered our butt, if we're
issuing this, because they've metall of these different requirements.

Ian Sim (45:53):
I don't think, excuse me.
I don't think, uh, you'll see thatany day soon coming from Ottawa.

No.

Ian Sim (46:00):
However, um, if a province wanted to get, I was going to say, get
creative, But, but I'd even get creative.
Yeah.
Okay.
Alberta, Saskatchewan,Manitoba, uh, trifecta maybe.
Um.
They have options.
They manage, uh, create, amend, uh,provincial legislation for the security

(46:28):
programs, which I believe are provincial.
Yes.
Like the armored car guards.
So Alberta, Saskatchewan,Manitoba, for example.
Could get together, um, maybe just topiss auto off, but, but more importantly,
because again, you know, these cute oneliners are just kind of back and forth.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (46:50):
I'm interested in sound, I'm interested in compassionate.
Common sense, middle of theroad, public policy, that's it.
And I've spent a good portion of mylife, um, trying to advocate both within
my organization, other organizations,um, the shooting community, um,

(47:11):
for, for sound public safety policy.
So Alberta, Alberta could choose, Iguess, to say we are going to issue
under the securities program, um, ATCsto not only our armored car guards,

(47:32):
but to, um, qualified civilians.

And,

Ian Sim (47:38):
and what do we want our armored car guards are, uh, and everyone else
who carries guns in our society, becausethere's quite a few peace officers.
Peace officer status, um,what do we require of them?
Well, we want safe, competent,
um, permit holders.

(47:59):
Like it's not rocket science.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (48:00):
Um, Alberta could do that.
And there's probably nothingthe federal government can do.
Now, Alberta might go, Hmm, you know,and initially go, I'm not so sure.
And that's fair.
I mean, we get good policyby, uh, exploring our options.

(48:21):
Sure.
So
Alberta could do it.
Um, or any, or, you know,
Um, but before we go to civilian

ATC,

Ian Sim (48:35):
which, um, if implemented, I guess, to the same standards of
the armoured car guards, uh, it wouldbe slightly different because it's
concealed carry as opposed to open carry.
Um, why don't we look at the resourcesthat we already have in this country,
which are serving peace officers.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (48:57):
Why?
So, I, I've, I, I termed something Icame up with years ago, and I'm not
the only one who's thought of this.
Um, I call it the LLDA, thelast line of defense Act.
Hmm.
And that would allow serving andhonorably retired peace officers,
the ability to carry off shift.

(49:19):
And I use the term offshift, not off duty.
Um, under the R CM P Act, they onis 24 7.
End of story.
I have no problem with it.
I will conduct myself.
Um.
To the appropriate standards.
And, and in some cases, Ithink my standards are higher
than the organizations.
So
we're, I've got ex militaryexperience million years ago, but,

(49:44):
uh, I'm a firearms instructor.
We're trained in active shooter.
Indoor and outdoor response.
Um, I requalify with, um, shotgun,carbine pistol every year.
Mm hmm.
Uh, I'm a firearms instructor.
Um, I've had some covert training.

(50:06):
Um,
there are current police officers, peaceofficers with those skills everywhere.
And there's people who were formerlyon ERT, former air marshals, former
military, They all have those skills.
So I think what we should be lookingat in this, this, um, community or

(50:35):
public safety crisis in our countryis allowing serving peace officers,
individual choice to carry off shift.
But I've heard, I'veheard from other cops.
I don't trust my, some of mycoworkers to carry off shift.
Okay.
Well, have you brought your concernsup to the supervisor that you don't
trust them when they're working?

(50:56):
No, of course not.
Right.
Um, and you know, so we don't haveanything to address what I call
that death gap in a violent crisis.
Like we've, we've changed a lot of lawsin our country because of, um, mass
casualty events, some cost a billiondollars, some which might cost a couple
more billion on one incident alone.

(51:18):
Or two incidents or three.
So clearly, um, there's an interest
to try and reduce mass casualty events.
Sure.
Right.
And it's bad enough with one person,let alone mass casualty events.

(51:38):
We're already trained.
We work in our communities.
We know who's who in our communities.
We know what to lookfor in our communities.
We get intelligencebulletins all the time.
Um, and we've got all thosespecialists who go to work.
Uh, two days, two nights, fouroff in our communities, it would

(52:01):
cost taxpayers, nothing, nothing.
And here's the thing is you'll getmembers, police officers saying,
Oh, I don't trust my coworker.
Okay.
Well, you know, they carryevery day at work anyways.
What's the problem.
Um, and then they go, well, whatabout a blue on blue, you know, like.
You know, an officer has a gun ata scene and they're on days off.

(52:26):
Our plainclothes police officersgo for coffee every morning.

Yeah.
You don't have problems there.

Ian Sim (52:30):
They go for lunch every day.
They go for afternoon coffee.
Most of them don't wear theirvests, their soft body armor.
Most of them take a, don't takea radio with them, they just go.
No problems.
A number of police officers carrytheir guns to and from home.
Um, on their hip, either in uniform,some will just take their gun in,

(52:52):
in a plain clothes holster and gohome to, because they're on call,
they work special units, uh, andsome will lock it up in the lockbox.
Really no problems, right?
So this is a worst case scenario.
Um, a violent crisis, um, which thegovernments have spent millions, if
not over a billion on having the LLDA,as I call it, off shift carry, um,

(53:18):
cost taxpayers absolutely nothing.
And it's the exact same peopleyou're calling in an emergency
to come and save your life.

I think it makes a lot of sense.
I mean, it also, it's kind of likethe Switzerland approach where
everyone gets mandatory conscription,mandatory training, and then
they're sent home with a firearm.
And I think in Switzerland, they lock themup, but if they need them, there they are.
They're ready because they realize thathaving properly trained individuals out
there who can be mobilized at a moment'snotice is way better than trying to

(53:49):
centralize all of this and, and react.
And it's also got theother effect on things too.
Um, who, who is this off duty officer?
I don't know.
I'm in a crowd.
I'm in a public place.
I'm at a political event, like whatrecently happened here in the States and.
With, with Trump, uh, who's theindividual who's caring and who

(54:10):
isn't like there is that saying anarmed society is a polite society.
And I've had people from, uh, the UNsay, no, you have no idea what we've
seen in different third world countries.
And, and, uh, definitely an armed societyis not a, it's not a polite society.
But the idea that maybe, maybeMike Tyson's approach, right?

(54:32):
Where he talks about everyone'sgotten way too comfortable,
uh, mouthing off at others.
They haven't got smacked in the face.
If you are somebody who's up to nogood, but there is a threat of getting
smacked in the face, well, maybeyou'll hold your mouth a little bit.
Maybe you'll decide not to dosomething, or maybe you'll, you'll hold,

Ian Sim (55:01):
Well, the deterrence effect, um, there's also, you
know, in the big picture, mutuallyassured destruction, Matt.
Um,
we have, so people who object to, um,civilian ATC or what they call CCW in
the States, concealed carry weapon,um, again, Canadians don't know what,

(55:23):
Really our Canadian firearms laws are.

Right.

Ian Sim (55:25):
Very few of them don't know what, um, the different concealed carry laws are
in various states, south of the border.
They don't know what they arein Brazil, Czech Republic.
Like they don't know.
They just don't know.
I've heard bad things about the States.
I see the stuff on the TV.
It's no good.
You're getting a skewed view from,from that, because, you know,

(55:47):
we all know in journalism, if itbleeds, it leads, it's going to hit.
I mean, I've seen, uh, outrage.
There
was a politician a couple ofyears ago that said, you know,
um, with all the sad face andeverything, 15 to take down a deer.

(56:08):
Well, most Canadians would just nodtheir head and go, yeah, true story.
Well, they were prohibited.
You were never allowedto hunt deer with AR 15.
So I would suggest they misledthe Canadian public, right?
Yes.
And I saw a CBC, um, documentary, ashort one on, uh, military style rifles.

(56:29):
And they finished the segmentwith a gentleman at range
putting a fully loaded 30.
Round magazine into the rifle,cocking it and firing the whole
30 round magazine on full auto.
Okay, well, we've had five roundrestrictions for magazines for

(56:51):
centerfire rifles for years.
Mm hmm.
And fully automatic weapons were, Ithink, banned in Canada in 74, maybe.
Everyone who had machine gunsin 74, full automatic weapons,
were allowed to keep them.
Their grandfather.

Right.
How many full autoshootings do you hear about?
I've never heard of one ever.
Right.
Yeah.
They're still in the safes ofall these people who've had them.

Ian Sim (57:11):
So again, we're talking a worst case scenario.
People are, I get people areanxious about the concept of, um,
peace officers carrying off shift.
Or even civilians, but what weneed to look at and, and we should
is, um, you know, do you knowanything about CCW concealed carry
programs in the United States?

I've done some training down there.
Yes.

Ian Sim (57:35):
Right.
So most, most Canadians don't have a clue.
Most police officers, peaceofficers don't have a clue,

right?
I think it was Utah have got a CCW permitfor them because they had reciprocity
with other States and, Um, but, butthere's training, there's training that
people have to get in order to get these.
And the biggest part about thattraining is don't use your gun, right?
Essentially don't be pulling that gun outunless your life or life of third party

(58:02):
is in danger and you can qualify that.

Ian Sim (58:04):
And they have different, so different states have different rules.

Yes.

Ian Sim (58:08):
Uh, some have very little training.
Constitutional carry states.
Right.
It's in the constitution.
Here's your gun.
You can carry.
Not a fan.
I'm not a fan of open carry.
I carried openly in Arizona as ayoung lad, creepy feeling, really
weird for about 30 minutes, andthen you just got on with your day.

(58:30):
Right.
Um, but really weird to start with.
I'm not a fan of open carry.
Um, I am a fan of compassionate, commonsense, middle of the road, public policy.
Um, we already have a CanadiansFire and Safety course.
We have pretty good legislation aroundwilderness carry to protect life.

(58:53):
Sure.
Uh, most police services and, and otherservices that, that carry guns, um, have
good provincial and federal standards.
Having, allowing peace officers currentlyserving the choice to carry off shift,
uh, enhances, um, no, it's not perfect.

(59:16):
Okay.
There, there's nothing perfect.
We have cars, untold carnage with cars,untold carnage with cigarettes, untold
carnage with fast food, like, but whatwe're talking about, how to address a
worst case scenario, murder in progress,a potential mass casualty event.
And I'm telling you right now,we can't respond any faster than.

(59:39):
It takes to go through all thosesteps and that gap, by the time
dispatch gets the call, dispatches itproperly, accurately, um, we gear up.
Roadside, and again, we willmove heaven and earth to get
there as quickly as we can.
A whole bunch of people are dead andwe've seen it all around the world.

(01:00:02):
This isn't just an American thing.
It's not just a North American thing.
So I think the LLDA, as Icall it, um, is the answer.
I know some people, um, willbe uncomfortable with it.
We should try and, um, um, alleviatetheir fears by just giving them the facts.

(01:00:23):
We don't have to make anything up.
We don't have to sugar coat anything.
There's enough people out therethat, that are, you know, don't
suffer from anxiety or, or superanti gun or any number of things,
or just people with good intentions.
Sure.
Um, Ottawa is never going to go for it.
We know that.
Province of Alberta.
For example, could say, wewant our peace officers in the

(01:00:46):
province of Alberta to have theindividual choice carry off shift.
Maybe there's a one day coursefor plain clothes, peace officers.
There isn't now,
you know, I see people in plainclothes, uh, what, what the public
might call undercover just meansplain clothes, out of uniform,

(01:01:07):
undercovers a separate type of uniform.
Specialized job description, but,
and they're carrying, uh, holstersthat, that are, are clearly like,
you're carrying a gun, dude.
Like, hello.

Travis Bader (01:01:21):
Well, you're looking, most people aren't that observant, but yes.

Ian Sim (01:01:25):
So, and yeah, I mean, I, so I'm, I'm, um,
covert operations or low vizoperations, um, usually your biggest,
uh, first safety, um, mechanism layer.
Is the fact you're covert, that theycan't see you're carrying a gun.

(01:01:46):
And I've seen people on surveillanceand I'm like, Ooh, we need to do
something with, uh, your gun belt,your holster, uh, your clothing.
Um, we can do a much better jobbecause some of the people that we're
following, uh, during the, I wasgoing to say current gang war, uh,

(01:02:07):
but it's been going on for decades.
If they think you're carrying agun, they And not all of us are
nice, clean cut, clean shaven,like you look like a gangster.

Right.

Ian Sim (01:02:18):
I would be afraid of you if you were walking, you
know, behind me on the street.
So, um, you know, we need, we cancarry, um, we can do a much better job.
Internally, with our day to dayoperations, it's a no brainer for
Alberta, or any province, to address,and it's not just current public safety,

(01:02:44):
community safety issues in the last,let's say decade, um, decade or so.
Thank you.
The LLDA, last line of defense act is,is really, I think the best solution
it's, it's both counter terrorismlegislation, but at the end of the day,
it's just public safety legislationand there's nothing that can touch it.

(01:03:05):
Um, people may oppose it, uh,for any number of reasons, which
I've discussed, including somepolice officers or peace officers.

Sure.

Ian Sim (01:03:15):
But do you have anything better to address that gap?
And in 61 years on thisplanet, I haven't heard it.
I haven't heard a better suggestion.
It's not perfect.
Um, human conflict isn't perfect.

No.

Ian Sim (01:03:37):
Um, a violent crisis or any crisis isn't perfect.
You do the best you can.
I think this is the best we could do.
Alberta is going to say wewant our peace officers.
To have the individualchoice to carry off shift.
The RCMP would likelysay, not in your life.
I don't know.
Maybe Alberta says, well, we'll,we'll take that into consideration

(01:03:58):
when we renew your contract.

Right.

Ian Sim (01:04:00):
But they could say to Edmonton, Calgary, Lethbridge, whatever.
This is what we want.
And I think they would go with it.
Um, they could try and just,they should discuss it.
They should bring up any concernsthey have, questions they have.
But at the end of the day, we'reall caring on duty anyways.

(01:04:24):
And obviously Albert has got someleverage in terms of budgeting, um,
any number of things, but we can'taddress what I call the death gap today.
And I can't see, I mean, what are we goingto double police officers in the street?
We can't even get enough policeofficers to get us to where we
were when I started 25 years ago.

(01:04:45):
And things are getting worse.
Populations growing problemsare like things evolve sometimes
better, sometimes worse.
So we've got a community safety.
Problem in this country, I'm focusingnarrowly on mass casualty events, but, um,
you know, the odds of people say, well,what are the chances of, of you needing

(01:05:06):
your, your service pistol off shift?
What are the chances?
What are the odds?
Right.
It's not about the odds.
It's the stakes.
It's life or death.
It couldn't be more important.
It couldn't be a worst case scenario.
So it's not the odds of it happening.
It's the stakes.

Yeah, I have people ask me, what are the odds of
me getting in a car accident?
Well, I spent a long timesince I've been in one.
I'd have to say the odds are pretty low.
So why do I wear a seatbelt?
Because the stakes of not wearingit and getting into a car accident
are going to be way worse.
So I, I like that last lineof defense act suggestion.

(01:05:52):
I like it because you're already startingwith people who are trained and it
creates a palatable path forward forany government to say, well, it's okay
because they've been trained before.
We trusted them before.
There's no reason not to trust them now.
Oh, and look at this specialcourse that we've now put them on.
And so we've, we'vedone our due diligence.
We've covered her butt, but,uh, you know, These, this would

(01:06:15):
be for retired peace officers.
So it could be for.

Ian Sim (01:06:21):
Yeah.
So I would include in the legislation, um,retire, honorably retired peace officers
who have retired within the last, um,I don't know, maybe, maybe it would
have to start from today, right?
If you're honorably retired, you're good.
Maybe if you've been out for threeto five years, you're still good,

(01:06:45):
but you're gonna have to re qualify.
We will carry our service pistols,um, that we carry every day.
Now, uh, if, if your departmentdoesn't allow you to carry.
Right.
Let's say Alberta does it.
And there's, there's some, uh,departments or, or, or police
services that say no way.

(01:07:06):
Can Alberta say, well, okay, you can'tcarry your department's equipment.
We get it.
It's their equipment, but we'regoing to allow you to carry
off shift with your equipment.
You will still have to passyour department's AFQ, annual

(01:07:28):
firearms qualification.
Uh, at your own cost on days off,but you do your department's course
of fire with your own handgun,
you can carry too.
So your department says, no,it's their, it's our equipment.

(01:07:48):
I get it.
And it's, it's makes sense if, Imean, they own it and you know,
we're very risk averse these days,so that's part of the problem.
Um,
maybe there's.
Uh, a way to come aroundthat, get around that.
Um, you're honorably retired.
Um, you're going to have to payfor your own and you're going to

(01:08:08):
have to qualify on the provincialstandard, which is armored car guards.

I think that bears some discussion too, because there's
going to be people who are listeningto this Who would say, well, why is
one person's life, uh, valued higher?
Why is a peace officer able to do itand not me or whatever it might be.
And I think the reality is oneperson's life isn't, we're not saying

(01:08:35):
one person's life is valued higher.
From my perspective, this is a pathforward that's easily palatable
for a political party to be able tosay, okay, we can get behind this.
There's going to be those who areout there who say, I'd rather be
judged by 12 and carried by six.
And if I believe that my life isin danger, then I'm going to take,
whether that's a firearm or not,I'm going to take steps to be able

(01:08:58):
to protect myself and my family.
And for these people, not that I'madvocating one way or the other, I'm
But it would be probably importantfor them to understand what those
rights are for a private citizen.
And they're the exact same as whatan armored car guard would do.
And for an armored car guard, they'retrained on some tactical communication.

(01:09:25):
I mean, it's a week long course,really, uh, some places shorter,
it's really short things.
So empty hand defense, they're trainedon some scenario training, some legal
studies, some firearms work, and their useof force model is different from what you
would see for a law enforcement officerand law enforcement officer training.
Does not have a big old disengageall around it because that's their

(01:09:47):
job to actively go there and engage.
If there's a less violent means available,the private citizen has to take it.
If there's a less violent means availablethat they can save their life or life of
a third party and a reasonable and prudentindividual, what is, what do they call it?
The reasonable man doctrineor something like this.

(01:10:09):
Um, somebody with the same lifeexperience and the same situation
or same or similar situation wouldreasonably come to the same conclusion.
If there is a less violent meansavailable, you have to take it.
But if there is no lessviolent means available.
You are justified in using as much forceas necessary in order to stop the threat.

(01:10:32):
And that doesn't mean if theperson pulls a knife, you pull
a knife, the person pulls a gun,you pull a gun to stop the threat.
You're not matching the threat,you're going one step above
so that you can stop it.
It's not a battle of who's got the bettercardio and who's got the better fitness.
And.
Then I guess there's probably somediscussion about the before, the during,

(01:10:56):
and the after, which would be importantfor people to know about, but I'll
just kind of get the conversation,maybe rolling on that one a little bit.
Do you have thoughts on that?
The

Ian Sim (01:11:09):
bottom book right there is the before, during, and after.
I, so it's, it's, it's an, um, it,it's written, um, in the United
States for, uh, primarily civilianswith concealed carry permits.
It's Masada, you needs no introductionto anyone who's, um, familiar with,

(01:11:31):
uh, defensive firearms use in,in, he's been around for decades.
Um,
I, excuse me, I feel that book,um, is mandatory reading for anyone
who, Hasn't a serious interest inanything related to self defense.

(01:11:51):
That book is not abouttactics and techniques.
There's lots of other shootingschools and books that will do that.
That is the before, during and after.
And I think anyone who carries, uh,um, uh, firearm professionally in
this country should own that book.

It's called Deadly Force.
Uh, understanding yourrights to self defense.

Ian Sim (01:12:13):
And again, uh, self defense is self defense.
Um, human combat is human combat.
Um, it's, and, and our laws are verysimilar to many in the States, but again,
it, it's highly relevant to Canada.
So if you're interested in selfdefense, that's one of the best books.
And I I've, I've read nonstopsince I was, you know, 12.

(01:12:36):
Um, anyone who cares afirearm professionally in this
country should have that book.
I think crown counsel and prosecutorsshould have that book, defense
counsel should have it, homicideinvestigators should have it, use
of force instructors should haveit, police union should have it, the
IIO, SIU, uh, units and organizationsthat investigate police use of force.

(01:13:00):
They should have it.
It's the best book that I found, whetheryou're allowed to carry a gun or not.
And for all those other groups,I just talked to a crown council
for Alberta and BC recently,dealing with the firearms crowns.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (01:13:17):
Um.

Is that Todd?

Ian Sim (01:13:19):
Uh, no, it was, it was, um, a woman from BC and
another gentleman from Alberta.
Yeah.
Um, and they were very interestedand, and the other book, of course,
um, They're interested as well.
Uh, so I will be sending one copy ofthis book, uh, published by Harvard

(01:13:40):
university, uh, to both of them and,uh, Deadly Force is available on Amazon.

So the other one you have is To Keep and Bear
Arms by Joyce Lee Malcolm.

Ian Sim (01:13:49):
Yeah.
And published by Harvard university.
She's a history professor and she'sjust written on English common law
around firearms from the Englishbill of rights in 1689, I think,
uh, up until the early 1900s.
So, um, I think anyone who owns afirearm Should own to keep and bear arms.

(01:14:10):
I think every gun store in thecountry should have to keep and
bear arms It should be in all24 law schools in the country.
I know it's at UBC at thelaw school there already You

put it there.

Ian Sim (01:14:25):
I did not.
No.
I was going to, um, because I'mactually working on donating these
books at my own costs to, you know,Crown Council, um, Parliamentary
Library in Ottawa, 24 Law School.
So that saved me a couple of bucks.
Um.
Not bad.
The, uh, we have it already.

Okay.

Ian Sim (01:14:44):
So, and, and that's English common law, which is the foundation of our
legal system, the American legal system.
The Americans got the secondamendment from the British.
Okay.
Now the British have lost alltheir firearms rights for the
most part, in kind of weird ways.
Yeah.
Um.
They can have suppressors.
We can't have

suppressors.

Ian Sim (01:15:01):
Well, I mean, the gun hating British and they're not gun hating, but,
but you know, something, the gun hatingBritish, um, they were walking around
with MP5s in Heathrow airport for decades.
I know.
Because of, uh, in the seventies,the eighties, terrorism
campaigns, IRA, the whole bit.
Um, you've got these olddudes running around the
countryside and their tweed caps.
Um, my dad was from Scotland.

(01:15:21):
I love tweed.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (01:15:22):
Um.
Um, with their, you know, their huntingrifles with suppressors on them, what
the public might call a silencer because,um, you know, the density population
in Britain, um, guns make noises.
They're not that loud, but they'reconcerned about disturbing, um, the,
the neighborhood, the community.

(01:15:44):
And we've had ranges close inCanada on bylaws for noise.
Right.
They've closed the rangesdown because of that.
Well, the answer is suppressors.
Suppressors were banned,I think in the seventies,

silencers

Ian Sim (01:15:58):
because of American movies.

Right.

Ian Sim (01:16:01):
So people kind of, their heads exploded and, and, and got
all worried about, oh my God,suppressors, we have to ban them.
Like the martial arts movies inthe seventies, throwing stars,
nunchucks, um, butterfly knives.

Yeah.
None of these are really super effectivetools in most people's hands, but no,
better prohibit them because we saw BruceLee and look at the damage he can do.

Ian Sim (01:16:24):
Right.
So again, sound policy, Idon't know that sound policy.
Um, I, I mean, I, I like someof our firearms laws here.
I like some of the firearmslaws in the United States.
I wish the United States, someStates had more of our firearms laws.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (01:16:44):
But I wish we had some of theirs.
Czech Republic does a good job.
Like, so I'm justinterested in what works.
I I'm, I'm that kind of that sobersecond thought that calm, um,
assessment, uh, I'm not goingto get all wound up either way.

(01:17:04):
Uh, I'm, I'm not going to get too swayedby the left, the right, or anything else.
Um, public safety, um, isn't something tobe messed with, shouldn't be misleading
people, you shouldn't be lying to them.
There's ways of addressing publicsafety in Canada, particularly
for mass casualty events.

(01:17:26):
Um, again, like the LLDA that isgoing to cost taxpayers nothing.
Provinces could implement it.
Um, and you know, I don't know,we've got nothing else in its place.
So why would you, you know,look for reasons to oppose this?

(01:17:48):
When you have nothing concrete,you have no viable option
in its place.
So it's like the kid, it's like the,the, the, the students I made at
university or down on rec beach whenI used to work there, I've since
moved on, but you know, I get it.
You're mad, you're yelling.
Do you have any suggestionsfor me as a police officer?

(01:18:12):
Do you know any countrythat's doing a better job?
Do you know any police officer orpolice services doing a better job?
What we're looking for at theend of the day is to improve
what we do for Canadians.
And ideally, uh, without spending tonsof money, it's going to cost money.
I get it.

But the

Ian Sim (01:18:29):
LLDA cost taxpayers, nothing.
And there's nothing that anyone has toaddress that death gap, as I call it.

I think we should probably let the listeners who aren't aware of
what RecBeach is, what RecBeach is.
So if people haven't been there, I'lllet you explain what RecBeach is, unless
you wanted me to take the lead on that.
So

Ian Sim (01:18:48):
RecBeach.
Beach is, uh, maybe the oldestclothing optional beach in the country.

And

Ian Sim (01:18:55):
I believe this year or last year, it won best nude beach in the world.
So, you know, there's a coupleof people down on Rett Beach.
It's at Pacific Spirit Park out byUBC, University of British Columbia.
Um, it's down 500 steps.
To the beach, it's a beautifulbeach location is spectacular.

(01:19:17):
Um, but it's always beenkind of hippie beach.
I mean, there's people down there thatwere probably at Haight Ashbury in 69.
Right.
Like for real.
Right.
Um, not many, but.
So, um, it, it attracts a,um, colourful clientele.

(01:19:39):
Uh, there's, there's a bit of a myth, anurban myth, I would suggest that it's sex
drugs and rock and roll and anything goes.
That's not the case,but it's a unique place.
We used to be quite confrontationalwith law enforcement, um, decade
and a half, a bit more ago.
Um, they didn't like us.
Apparently we didn't like them.

(01:19:59):
Uh, that's been turned around nicely.
Um, the beach and, and policing, uh, andmetro parks that runs the park itself.
Um, you know, policing has asked them,police yourselves or we'll do it for you.
Um, and it's worked far better,uh, the confrontations, um, the

(01:20:23):
animosity, like it's, it's really is.
It's not nearly as wild as it used to be.
Um, a lot, a lot of internationalvisitors go there not knowing
it's clothing optional.
A lot of students from the UBC,uh, go there and they're like, Oh,
Okay, nude beach, we're from Europe.
What's the big deal.

(01:20:44):
Right.

Right, right, right.
Um,

Ian Sim (01:20:45):
so yeah, it's, it's, uh, and you know, it's, it's a different
place, but it's, it's, it's not ascrazy and wild as it used to be.
There's more, um, you know,more single females say I'm
comfortable coming here now.
Young families, we wouldn'tcome here in the past.
Um, It's becoming a little bit mainstream,much to the displeasure of some of the.

The

Ian Sim (01:21:10):
lifers.
Hippies.
Yeah.
Or the nudists.
I mean, they're, they'renaturalists, right?
They're, they're natureists rather.
Natureists,

there you go.
There you

Ian Sim (01:21:18):
go.
They call people who wear their, theirclothes and their bathing suits on
the beach, they call them textiles.
Um, about, I don't know,30 percent are unclothed.

Do they do that in a derogatory way?
The textiles?
Yeah, they kind of, textiles, right?
So it's.
Spectators, people comingdown looking for a show.
Hey,

Ian Sim (01:21:36):
I did foot patrols on rec beach last weekend.
Um, I, I, you know, I, I was running thebeach there for, for quite a few years.
Um, I maintained a good, respectfulworking relationship on the beach.
That beach that I call analien planet on an alien planet
during COVID black lives matter.

(01:21:59):
Um, you know, as, as, like Isaid, as someone called me, uh,
an old white colonial settler cop.
So, um, if we can maintain thattype of relationship there during
those recent times, we can doit anywhere in the country.
We just got to get out of our cars, putthe right people in the right places.

(01:22:20):
On the street, on foot, or on bikes.
And we can kind of get back tobasics, which I think is what
community safety and publicsafety in this country needs.
I just think the country needs it.

I, yeah, I think an understanding of what those basics are
and where this podcast can hopefully go.
Like when we understand what our charterrights are, what a, what is acceptable in
the courts, because the courts, the lawsdon't tell you what you can do really,
they tell you kind of what you can't do.
And then the courts will comein and they'll say, okay,

(01:22:58):
you were right or wrong.
And in, in how you applied that, um,for individuals who are looking to,
um, Or put into a situation wherethey might have to use deadly force.
I would highly suggest a lookat the armor car guard model.
Um, you're right.
Uh, my understanding is the same as yours.

(01:23:20):
I shouldn't say you're right.
My understanding is the same as yours inso far as we have a federal model for,
um, training for the armor car guards, butit's administered provincially, just like
ATT's geographical extent is administeredProvincially, uh, authorization
to carry is the same sort of way.

(01:23:40):
You can have thesecertifications transferred
from one province to the other.
You can have them if, if firearms officerson BC and Alberta say, Oh, you're, you're
going to be in between these two places.
Not a problem.
I've done work with other businesses.
There's a fellow on the island.
I'm trying to remember the name.
Um, the name of hisbusiness, but he was robbed.

(01:24:01):
He had a jewelry store and, um,ended up, uh, using deadly force.
He had a gun, he was a sports shooterand he had a gun that he, I mean, he's
got a jewelry store or what better, whatsafer place to store his firearm as well.
Everything was legally kept.
And anyways, that went before the courts.
He came back and, Ended up getting himselfcertified to be able to carry based on the

(01:24:24):
fact that there is a threat on the store.
But I think they worked at not so muchin, uh, the protection of life area.
It was more in the cashor negotiables area.
If your primary activity is, I think theylooked more sort of the armored car route.
I know in BC here, we've had other,uh, jewelry stores that have,
um, started to open up under thesecurity programs division of BC.

(01:24:51):
Option for an armed presence, whetherthat be jewelry store owners, uh, or
having armed security at their locations.
So there are conversations thathave been started over the years.
Um, individuals looking at this would knowthat they'd have to look at through the

(01:25:11):
firearms act regulations and the criminalcode, they have to have an idea of what,
um, Is justifiable in the, the big threethat they, uh, Canada kind of stole.
I think it was Masada Yube wasthe one preaching it as well was
weapon intent delivery system.
Was that, was that a Yube thing?
So

Ian Sim (01:25:29):
I, I'm familiar with Masada Yube for decades, I've,
I've, I never trained with him.
Right.
Um, and I've read one ortwo of his other books.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (01:25:40):
But it was decades ago.

Okay.

Ian Sim (01:25:42):
I've read this one, uh, I think three times now.
In the last two years, um,
laws evolve Hmm.
As do societies for better, for worse.
Uh, self-defense laws isevolving in Canada, um, slowly.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (01:26:02):
Which is a good thing.
We don't live in a war zone.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (01:26:06):
Um, the beauty of that book is, uh, deadly force is
that the Americans have a far.
Larger body of, um, knowledge andexperience, um, with self defense law
and our laws are very much the same.
Um, laws, I don't thinklaws prevent crime.

(01:26:29):
I think, I think lawsare used deal with crime.
Sure.
Because the vast majorityof people are good people.
Um, good people outnumberbad people by far.
Hmm.
Hmm.
In, in everywhere in theworld, um, and always will.

And that's an awesome thing to hear from somebody who's
spent the last 25 years in policingand sees the worst in society at times.
That's, that's a refreshing thing to hear.

Ian Sim (01:26:57):
You know, I'm the eternal optimist.
Uh, it's getting a little bit harder,um, the way the world is going.
Um, I still like people.
I wouldn't have lasted one season ona wrecked beach had I not liked people
and had half a clue how to talk to them,um, or probably, you know, at a, what

(01:27:19):
someone call a left coast university,um, As an old white colonial settler cop.
Like, I mean, what elsehave I got against me?
Um,
are, are the discussion is changingaround public safety in, in this country.

(01:27:42):
Uh, the world seems tobe slipping everywhere.

You

Ian Sim (01:27:45):
know, Europe kind of used to be the gold standard, not anymore.

And,

Ian Sim (01:27:50):
and what we talk about, what we call public safety, which
is my mandate, public safety iscommunity safety is comprised of two.
Essential pillars,
you need both of them to haveeffective, enduring community safety.

(01:28:13):
One of those pillars is one we'refamiliar with called public safety.
That's the core mandate ofgovernments at all levels,
municipal, provincial, and federal.
The other one, personal safety,which is everyone's right.
And if you choose your responsibility,um, I had a woman talk to me recently.

(01:28:38):
She goes, you know, awoman's right to choose.
Is how, when, and if to defend herlife and the lives of her children.
That's a woman's right to choose becauseif I'm not safe, I don't get to make
any decisions on reproductive rights,

(01:29:02):
my hijab, my necklace, my pin, who Ilove, like, and she's of course, right.
Um, and you know, I mean, socommunity safety relies on public
safety and personal safety.
You can ignore your own personalsafety as many people do.

(01:29:23):
That's fine.
I mean, the first, the first rule ofpersonal safety is usually in, you know,
I'll talk about in university or collegeor even high school, put your phone away

and

Ian Sim (01:29:32):
you've lost half the class or more, right.
They're young, they'regoing to live forever.
They're bulletproof.
Nothing bad's ever going to happen.
I get it.
Right.
But you know, owning a firearm,uh, doesn't make you safe.
In and of itself, any more than owninga guitar, it makes you a musician.

Right.

Ian Sim (01:29:50):
Um.
Good point.
So, you know, there's the before,the during, the after, that's
the beauty of, of Masada Yub'sbook, Deadly Force, uh, Amazon.
Um, the other book, Harvard UniversityPress, a little bit harder to get.
You're already armed.
Like people say, why did you become.

(01:30:13):
Why do you want to become a cop?
I said, well, I need ajob where there's no math.
So I went down the list of jobsthat don't require any math.
I went down, went down.
I'm like, cop, no math plus gun,which is kind of mathematical,
but I could figure it out.

(01:30:34):
And I'm like.
I'm going to be one of those.
Um, because they'll ask me inclasses, because there's, there's
people in high school, university,college, why do you become a cop?
Because there's a good percentagethere that are interested in a law
enforcement career, some are lawyersand the whole bit, but I'm like,
well, I wanted to live my life armedand they don't know what that means.

I've never heard somebody say that before.
It's always, I want to help others.
I like dealing with people, whichare all parts of it, I'm sure.
So, well,

Ian Sim (01:31:08):
so again, I went, I don't know.
Um, my dad worked for the federalgovernment safety, safety, safety.
I grew up watching warmovies on Saturdays as a kid.

Sure.

Ian Sim (01:31:19):
Um, cop shows as a kid, firearms are kind of neat.
Yeah.
Um, my dad taught me to, Shoot apellet gun at a fair in his hometown
in Scotland, when I was like 12.
Um, dad knows how to shoot.
Where'd you learn to shoot?
Oh, it was in the army.
My dad was in the army.
How cool is that?
Right.

(01:31:39):
It was in the Britisharmy, you know, 46, 47.
But, um,
you know, there's a lot of thought to gointo, um, personal safety, but what, to
get back to community safety, if you don'thave one without the other, if you don't

(01:31:59):
have personal safety and public safety.
You don't have effectiveenduring community safety.
We've never had personalsafety in this country.
It's never talked about.
It's in the criminal code.
It always has been.
It's in the charter, bill of rights, 1960UN declaration of human rights, 1948.
It's always been around, but wedon't talk about it in Canada.

(01:32:23):
And probably for, uh, uh, you know,um, a positive reason is that, you
know, we live in a very, Or have livedin a very, again, um, stable country.

So you think that's the reason why you think it's because we
haven't really had to talk about itbecause it's, things have been stable.
Partly,

Ian Sim (01:32:43):
partly the other, the other reason is, is, and you can really see it
now there, there's an ideology out therethat, um, you know, and maybe they're
just using the United States as an excuse,you can pick many countries or societies
that have terrible levels of violence.
We just pick the States because I guesswe get their news, we get their TV.

(01:33:05):
And really most Canadians don't knowabout firearms laws and crime in
other countries, but they watch TV.
They kind of catch, um, the bad newsstories from South of the border.
So that makes sense.
But how good is governmentat doing anything?
You know, they're, they're okay,but, but, you know, you, you don't
usually look at government andgo, they're, they're rockstars.

(01:33:26):
They're killing it.

Um,

Ian Sim (01:33:27):
so I don't know, what would you rate government's, um, record on public
safety in this country in the last decade?
Um, pretty low, but let's saygovernment got it a hundred percent
right, all levels, municipal,provincial, federal, not a chance.
But if we got public safety, ahundred percent, right, we're

(01:33:50):
still missing a full 50%.
Of what community safety needs forit to be effective and enduring.

I see individual safety, personal safety.

Ian Sim (01:34:01):
Again, and that's up to the individual.
Um, you know, do I thinkwe should, everyone should
walk around with a handgun?
No.
Constitutional carrier, there's a pistol.
No.
Right.
I mean, most of us in shootingsports and on farms, um, absolutely
want government restrictions on

Some people just suck at life and some people shouldn't
be, shouldn't be, uh, have thesame rights and freedoms as others.
If they've demonstrated a pasthistory, the best predictor of future
performance is past performance.
So I'm not one of these people who's everbeen, everyone needs a gun in their hand.
Everyone's got a God given right.

(01:34:41):
And I've gotten heat for that inthe past, but, um, and, and just for
those reasons that I've mentioned.
Yeah, I agree with you.
So

Ian Sim (01:34:51):
that part is, and people say, well, you know, 25 years
ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago,our public spaces were safe.
You were safe out in public.
For the most part, it's, I get it.
It's changed considerably in thelast decade plus, you know, it was
never safe, was behind closed doors.

(01:35:12):
So our public spaces were safe, er,
but it was never.
Safe for women and girlsbehind closed doors.
And it still isn't.
And it's gotten worse.
Epidemic of domestic violence,intimate partner violence.

(01:35:34):
I mean, I kind of study violence,political violence, terrorism,
gang violence, intimate partnerviolence, gender based, whatever.
I don't know.
Violence is violence.
I mean, there's some differences, but.

I was reading something about COVID and that
being one of the massive negativebyproducts of the lockdowns were
increased alcohol consumptionand increased domestic violence.

Ian Sim (01:36:01):
And I heard this from a few females whose husband's
retired from policing recently.
He's home every day.
I get it.
And the feeling might be mutual.
I don't know, but no true.
Um, so an increase in intimate partnerviolence, gender based violence,

(01:36:21):
domestic violence, you know, I stillbelieve we're allowed to choose our
own words, call it what you want.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (01:36:28):
So that's been a problem and it's still a problem.
It will always be a problem.
I mean, ideally we, we, we, um, in thepublic safety, uh, profession do a better
job of prevention, but once violencehas happened, it's really too late.
It's done.
Um, If you survive it and the vastmajority of people survive it.

(01:36:52):
Sure.
Um, and the vast majority ofpeople survive all crimes.
But again, it's, it's, it's not, it's notthe odds of it happening so much as, as
stakes, violence changes people's lives.
Just the thought of violence makespeople very uncomfortable, particularly
if you've experienced it or seen it.

(01:37:14):
So you understand why people get,you know, Kind of emotional about,
um, the concept of perhaps the LLDA

or

Ian Sim (01:37:23):
civilian ATC authorization to carry.
Um, and you'll get the emotions on bothsides because the victims, um, who, you
know, a female with her two young childrenwho have moved up in the, up north to get
away from her, her, her violent partnerdown here, she's got some very legitimate

(01:37:44):
And emotional, um, stories, right.
I mean, I've, um,
I've been, life is not safe.
Bad things happen.
Good people every day in this country,

(01:38:07):
big cities, small towns, and in themiddle of nowhere, everywhere in between.

And,

Ian Sim (01:38:14):
and by bad things, I mean, you know, Terrible, horrific acts of violence.

Um,

Ian Sim (01:38:25):
and it's getting worse.

And it's clear the impact that it has on people, it's
clear the impact, the exposure to thatviolence is having on you right now.
It's, um, I think that's the impetus forthe conversation for personal safety.

Ian Sim (01:38:43):
Yeah.
I, when I.
Um, when I left my last postingin a four week period, posting
the last, um, jurisdiction that Iworked, um, we had my team, uh, three
constables, uh, all on their first day.

(01:39:04):
First posting out of

depo

Ian Sim (01:39:06):
and myself, we had four suicides and a homicide in a four week period.
Now that's an anomaly, but it happens.
Um, it was my team's turn.
It's just the way it worked out.
So, um,
uh, you know, the focus hasto be on prevention, but you

(01:39:30):
can't, or shouldn't deny it.
So, you know, most people, everyonehas the right to be safe, criminal
codes as you can, the whole bit.
Um, I,
my position is, is you can't deny alaw abiding adult Canadian the right

(01:39:54):
for civilian ATC authorizationto carry a handgun.
Except on a case by case basis.
Um,
and, and there are shall issuepermits States in the United States.
And there are may issue permit States.

(01:40:15):
We have, I guess, what'swe call a may issue system.
You can apply for a civilianauthorization to carry, um, in
the wilderness to protect life.
They don't allow it in urbanareas or anywhere else.
Um, and they may issue you a permit.
Now, if you apply for a permitand you are, um, a retired,

(01:40:42):
um, police officer, who's got allthis training, um, you won't get it.
Uh, you could be a, uh, a violenceof, or a victim of domestic violence.
You won't get it.
You could be, so it's amay issue permit system.
In reality, you're notgoing to get a civilian ATC.
It's a

not issue system.
It's a not issue system.

Ian Sim (01:41:03):
So, and, and, In, in the United States and in other
jurisdictions around the world, it'sa, uh, shall issue permit system.
You apply for civilian ATC.
If you meet, uh, this listof requirements, which
the government determines,

(01:41:25):
they shall issue you your permit.
There's no discretion.
That's constitutional.
That would pass, Ithink, the charter test.
The government can make the, um,can, we all want the government to
restrict, again, firearms possession.

(01:41:46):
End use, but they haveto be relevant standards.
You can't make a permit 10,000 cause you want to deter
people from having their permit.
Right.
So they have to be relevant standardsand what's the relevant standard in
BC with the armoured cars guards do?

Sure.

Ian Sim (01:42:03):
That's it.
We don't need to train everyoneup to be, um, Navy SEAL, JTF,

you

Ian Sim (01:42:11):
know, guys from Hereford, like we don't, it has to be relevant
standards and the standards will be lower.
Then what I would have to do as apeace officer, because the requirements
and the situations are different.
We want safe, competent,ATC permit holders.

Have you ever heard of a civilian being issued an
ATC for, or experienced that?
Maybe, cause I've heard of it.
Way back.
Right.
I've heard of, Judges, uh,working on cases and I'll put
a big allegedly around here.
Um, allegedly I've heard of judgeswho weren't issued permits, but would

(01:42:51):
carry anyways, because, uh, there wasa, uh, a threat on, um, on their life
and their safety and figured theywould rather live through it than

Ian Sim (01:43:04):
not.
And, you know, it, it, it, it's too badthat you've got, um, peace officers that
carry all day long on duty and aren'tallowed to carry off shift and could
face, um, internal sanctions, a codeof conduct, uh, probably not criminal

(01:43:25):
if you're carrying your service pistol.
If you were carrying your personal pistol.
Probably not criminal again.
I mean.
Maybe not.

We've seen examples of that.
So,

Ian Sim (01:43:34):
but it's too bad.
Right.
Um, that, that, that's where we're at.
And as, um, community safetydeteriorates worldwide, um, and,
and we in, in traditional policeemergency response, can't really
address what I call that death gap.
Now's the time.
Now it still would have beenthe right time 25 years ago.

Um,

Ian Sim (01:44:01):
I think quick stats, United States defensive gun uses are at 1.
6 million.
The number's probably a bit low.
Murders, 19, 000 something.
Let's just bump it up.
So 20, 000, um, murders,um, not including suicides.

So murder would be justifiable and not justifiable
that just, would that be homicide?
Or would that be.
Homicide.
Okay.
So 20,

Ian Sim (01:44:24):
000 homicides, 1.
6 million defensive gun uses.
Homicides are probably a bit high, 1.
6 million defensive gun uses DGU, um,probably a bit low for obvious reasons.

Great.

Ian Sim (01:44:37):
Um, 87 percent plus of those defensive gun uses, the firearms never.
Right.
Right.
Firearms, um, have a particularlyeffective, coercive effect.
They, um, they incentivize peopleto go in the opposite direction,

(01:45:01):
stop what they're doing, surrender,and In the vast majority of cases.

Stop, regroup, choose a more desirable course of action.

Ian Sim (01:45:10):
And occasionally, um, buddy pushes it and it's on and, and they get
themselves shot or whatever happens.
Right.
So, um,
what is, what is the most, so rightnow we've got the fire and freeze.
Um, we used to have the reasons forshooting in Canada were hunting,

(01:45:31):
shooting sports and collecting.
Um, Um, the government hasmaintained that to protect life
is not a reason to own a firearm.
If you say that when you're gettingyour possession and acquisition
license, you'll be denied the whole bit.
Absolute nonsense.
Right.
It's like saying, you know, the onlytime you can get a permit to have
sex is to make babies, but that's it.

(01:45:52):
Right.
We're all going to cross our fingersbehind our back and say, yep, it's only
for, you know, and it's just madness.
So that alone is, is, isa charter breach, right?
Like section seven is the most,the most important reason to own
a firearm is to protect life.
Number one, hunting second,sports shooting third, collecting.

Sure.

Ian Sim (01:46:17):
That's it.
And, and we need to say that.
And it doesn't mean we're, uh,it's, it's just stating the

obvious.
Cause people will do it.
They'll get a firearm for protectionof life, but they play the song
and dance game of, Oh no, it'scause I want to collect her.
It's no, no.
Cause I'm going to be a sports shooter.
Oh, okay.
What club do you belong to?
Right.
What range do you belong to?
Oh, I got to show my rangemembership or my club membership.
Otherwise they're not going to approvemy license or they're not going to prove
the transfer of firearm into my name.

(01:46:50):
Okay.
Oh, here's the club I belong to.
They've never gone there once.
Tell them what they want to hear.
Right.

Ian Sim (01:46:55):
You're good.
It's like filling any form out,make it as easy as possible.
Now, obviously I recommend everyonetell the truth on, on government forms.

Yes.

Ian Sim (01:47:05):
But I mean, you know, you do an applications for jobs
or any number of things, right?
Make it as easy as possible for them.
To understand it

and

Ian Sim (01:47:14):
say, yes.
So I'm not advocating anyone lyingon their forms, but I know out of
every firearms owner, I know toprotect life is not for the most time.
Uh, for most of them is not theprimary reason they own that farm.
For some it is.
Sure.
But for the majority, it's not, butit's a close second for most of them.

(01:47:36):
They all know that in a, um, civilstrife, um, natural disaster, that,
that the firearm is part ofemergency safety equipment, like

(01:47:57):
food, Like water, fuel for your car.
Like it's just a, a firearm is emergencysafety equipment, it's other things.
But to me, that's what it is first.
It's a reactive defensive tool.
And, you know, you know, sothe government's going to say,
no, handgun is, has no use.

(01:48:19):
Well, firearms have nouse to protect life.
Really?
What does every country on the planetissue its government officials to do?
For, to protect life, handguns,particularly handguns.
Sure.
Because you can have itwith you, it's concealable.
So,

(01:48:40):
you know, it's, it's, it's, it'snot just a bit of a stretch.
It's, it's absolutely ridiculous.
It makes no sense when they come onand say, Oh yeah, there's, there's
no, uh, handguns have no purpose.
They're the most effective toolon the planet to protect life,
particularly for those who are,uh, getting on in years, have some

(01:49:02):
physical limitations and challenges.
Females?

What's that saying?
God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.
Right.

Ian Sim (01:49:14):
I mean, most of, most Canadians know a couple where the male outweighs
the female by 100 pounds or more.
She's 130, he's 230.
I, I follow domestic violence.
Uh, I, like I said, in, in April, I wasat a homicide and it was a domestic.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (01:49:40):
Um,
men may use firearms to kill women
on top of every other tool thatthey use, but no man needs a
firearm to kill a woman for themost part, for the most part, right?

(01:50:00):
Uh, some, some choose a firearm tokill a female, but it's the females.
Uh, because of, of the disparity of sizeand strength, uh, and, and just, we've
got way more testosterone than they do.
Um, we're, we're more aggressive.
We just are.
It's just the species.
So, um, it's not, it's not menthat suffer, um, uh, the most.

(01:50:25):
Having a handgun freeze, it it's women.
Now missing and murdered indigenouswomen and girls, domestic violence,
intimate partner violence,the women are suffering here.
Um, the majority of women won't ownfirearms to protect themselves in Canada,
just like the majority of firearms don'town firearms to protect themselves.

Right.

Ian Sim (01:50:47):
Um, But some do, and some could.

I think normalizing the, why you're getting the firearm with
the firearms program on the applicationis a good first step for people.
And the number of times I've dealtwith the firearms program and they
say, don't tell me that, tell me this,like, for example, I got a gun here.
I need to register, right?

(01:51:11):
You've got the system,you've got these rules.
We've got to make sure it's registered up.
Where'd you get the gun?
Oh, we got it from ABCD,whatever the situation might be.
Just, just tell me youfound it in your attic.
They say, no, I'm notgoing to tell you that.
Well, tell me this, look atTravis wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
I'm doing this over the phone, but justtell me this, it'll go through easier.
I'm like, I'm not going to lie to youabout where I got this thing from.

(01:51:34):
Right.
I don't want to be playing that game.
And eventually it'll go through,but I, I've lost count of the number
of times that I've been told tosay certain things, cause it'll
make their job easier to approve.
They just want to help you.
They're being a good person, but itdoesn't, it doesn't help everybody
else if we're not normalizing aprocess, which should be normal.

Ian Sim (01:51:57):
So talking about rights, um, You know, I'll have this
discussion with some of the guysfrom Gunsight, Northern Arizona.
Right.
I mean, you know, a golf courseis the deliberate and willful
misuse of a rifle range.
Well, maybe not in Southern Arizona,but Northern Arizona, maybe.
Um, and they're like, ah,rights this, rights that, left
wing, socialist, rah, rah, rah.

(01:52:17):
And I go, whoa.
Rights are for everyone.
Um, if you haven't figured out howto articulate your rights, that's
not my problem, that's yours.
Um, I'm sure that there is a hierarchyof rights, I haven't really researched
it or studied it or whatever, but prettysure security of person is at the top.

(01:52:42):
Um, and you know, when I asked the gunsite, some of the crew and who carried
down the States, like, okay, well,if you could have only your choice,
is it your second amendment choiceor is it her, uh, right to choose?
Pick one, right.
They all security of their person.

(01:53:02):
And I'm like, so you could live with that.
And they're like, and you know, theconversation gets heated, I get.

Sure.
Yeah.
It can be really emotional.

Ian Sim (01:53:09):
And that's okay.
Like we should be havingthese discussions.
I mean, ideally, You know, there's,there's certain people that
shouldn't be at the table, right?
If, if anxiety and, and personal,um, health issues, it's hard to
think rationally or, or offer, um,particularly positive contribution.

(01:53:32):
Right.
We can all agree on public safety.
Um, again, what I call community safety.
And if you need both,

you

Ian Sim (01:53:41):
need public safety, which is the role of government,
and they don't do that good a joband we have our own limitations.
Um, and team Canada, which is thatball cap there, that's the intelligence
services, the military, it's the doctors,the nurses, the paramedics, the police,
corrections, like it's the courts,it's, it's team Canada is a big team.

(01:54:04):
Um, but we're, most of us are oldconservative bureaucracies, which aren't
the most efficient at a lot of things.
So we need the personal safetyand the And that's a right.
The government, the governmentdoesn't have to approve it.
Canadians just have to

(01:54:29):
accept it.
They have to do it.
They have to take it.
They have to do it.
Rights aren't like oxygen.
You know, we don't, I'm notgoing to walk out of here and
be surrounded by my rights.

Right.

Ian Sim (01:54:39):
Rights need to be maintained.
They need to be discussed.
They need to be kind of on the shelfin a prominent location all the time.
You have to fight for your rights and I'mnot some right wing or left wing, like
I'm just, you know, um, we have rights.

(01:55:02):
Charter's the Supreme law of Canada.
They're not going away.
The West kind of believes in rights.
I get it.
There's some culturesand religions that don't.
Oh, well, it's not us.
Our Supreme court's going to makedecisions on a charter breach, a
roadside or at a search warrantor whatever, based on our charter
and our concept of rights and ourEnglish common law and our history.

(01:55:28):
Right.
And most people that I talkedto, um, Love Canada for that.
Love the West.
Uh, a lot of the Southern Hemisphereis trying to get to Europe.
You know, colonial racist Europe, they'rerisking their lives and their family
lives to get there because of rights,economic opportunities too, I get it.

(01:55:49):
Sure.
But, um, you know, again, when I, when Imeet people from all over the world, UBC,
and then now where I'm working currently,um, they're like, you guys are rock stars.
You guys are awesome.
And, um, you know, I would seesome of the students for their
whole four year career, right.
And they'd pop by the officewhen they were going back to.

(01:56:12):
Zimbabwe or wherever they'regoing, you know, give you a wave.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Like, it's not like that back home.
So that's a lovely feeling.
Frustrated in my line of work, for sure.
Um, um, the bucket can fill upafter 25 years and, um, I kind

(01:56:35):
of dealt with that recently.
Um.
You know, I'm, I'm the, I was the peer topeer counselor at my office, looking at my
young teammates, going to these horrificcalls, checking in, how you doing?
Um, but looking as well aslistening to their answers,
because sometimes they don't match.

(01:56:57):
Um, you know, and I've got, I'vegot, I can refer them to where.
They might need to call, um,go see someone the whole bit.
And then, uh, I noticed some stuffat work one, one morning particular.
Um, I got in my supervisor's vehicle.

(01:57:17):
Uh, we went for coffee, went, parked it.
Um, and then my buddy left countrymusic on in the, in the truck.
I'm like, not your

thing.

Ian Sim (01:57:27):
I left it on.
Yeah.
And, and, and, you know, it was okay.
Um, and this song came on and I findmyself bawling by myself, having
had coffee, good sleep, like, andI'm like, what just happened there?
No idea what was going on.
Just like, that's not normal.

Cause.
No, that is probably normal.
That is normal for someone who's.
Same life experiences, samebackground, that experience is normal.
And I think the problem that peoplehave is saying the feeling that it's
not normal, maybe feeling ashamed orwhatever it might be, but it's not the
normal that you want at the moment,but it's a normal that you have.

(01:58:14):
And it's probably a real goodindicator that there's, there's
some steps that need to be taken.

Ian Sim (01:58:20):
A normal reaction to some very abnormal, sad, sadly, those,
those incidents aren't abnormal.
They happen every day topeople in this country.
But, you know, my nickname withsome of my buddies is Spock.
I don't do emotion, I'm demonstrative,and I'm like, that's not normal for me.
Like, where did that come from?

(01:58:42):
So I'm like, Hmm.
So I, I mean, I'm like,okay, that's weird.
Let's just.
You know, and what, what it turned out tobe is, is we've had, we had a number of
fatalities and, and there's a lot of kidsobviously at university and, and, and,
you know, we all have, our, our bucketsometimes is small, sometimes it's big, it
can, it can overflow sooner than others.

(01:59:04):
We've all got different levelsof resiliency, the whole
bit, and I was pretty good.
You know, 22 years, I'm like, oh, okay.
I'm doing fine until I wasn't right.
And so, you know, Ikinda, okay, that's weird.
Not sure what happened there.
Let's just put it on the backburner and see what's going on.

(01:59:27):
Right.
And then, um, one ortwo other small things.
And you're like, and then, you know,yeah, you feel a tap on your shoulder
and you turn around and, and there's thatbig black hooded figure with the scythe.
Right.
And you're like.
I know you, right.

(01:59:48):
And you're like, me?
Like, I know who you are.
Yeah.
You know, I was looking for itin my team, but there are three,
four, five years in, I'm 25 years.
And so I got more stuff in mybucket and maybe, maybe a bit of

(02:00:10):
age, you know, nostalgic as we age.
Um, so I'm like, okay, I know who youare now and I know what's going on now.
Um, and I know right now you're kindof running the show, but now that I've
recognized what's happening, operationalstress, injury, PTSD, um, injuries,

(02:00:38):
my goal is to manage you and then let'sget you out of the picture altogether.
So it can be, if you don't recognizeit early, it can be, I mean,
recognizing it early is Obviouslythe best with anything, right.
Um, you're not feelingwell physically, mentally.

(02:00:59):
So recognizing it early was good.
Uh, knowing what to do asthe peer to peer counsellor.
Excellent.
That's helpful, isn't it?
So, and then,

and then just getting on it.
Well, if you remember, Spockdidn't lack emotion, Spock was
just highly, um, contained.
Disciplined.
He was disciplined, highly containedand very logical in his approach.
But didn't Spock also have, he washalf Vulcan, half human, if I remember

(02:01:32):
something right, or, but I do knowthat Spock actually did have emotion.
Cause I remember that, that eventuallycame out at some point and the real
Trekkies, Trekkers, whatever, are probablygoing to, uh, eat me alive for that one.
But.

Ian Sim (02:01:45):
I didn't watch it too much.
I kind of watch it a bit, but.
I'm just going

back to my memory bag.
So I didn't watch it at all.

Ian Sim (02:01:50):
Right.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (02:01:51):
So, I mean, that's just a nickname I got because I'm, I'm again,
and you know, I did that psychologicaltest, uh, for this human source
development course we were doing.
And, and I came across, um, I,I scored what was a strong SI,
so steady and influential, um,you know, not, not just even

keeled,

Ian Sim (02:02:14):
keep calm, carry on.
So, um, it's been a bit of ainteresting couple of years.
Um, My psychologist gave me a goodbook, uh, which is a fantastic book.
If you're just a student of human nature.
What's the book called?
I don't know.
I can't remember it, but I've got itat home and it's on my coffee table.

(02:02:35):
Um, and it was like, and itwas just from, from, uh, from a
policing perspective, from a humaninterest, it was just so good.
Um, and yeah, we, we, I, I've thrown ina few, um, cause I'm, I was always pretty
good at self care, single guy, no kids.
I live alone.
My, my family moved awaywhen I was in high school.

(02:02:58):
Um, and just, I got a few of themin Halifax, but I'm pretty good
at self care cause it's only me.
Um, I didn't really miss anything.
In fact, I kind of caught it quickly.
I just didn't know exactly right awaywhat was going on, um, but it was on
it pretty quick and yeah, um, positivecoping strategies are way better

(02:03:19):
than the maladaptive coping strategy.

Yeah.
And, uh, maybe I'm going out on a limbhere, but the fact that you reached out
and you want to help other people withtheir own personal safety seems to be a
strong, uh, strategy where you can, youPositively affect others moving forward.

Ian Sim (02:03:39):
Safety takes many forms.
Um,
we're already, so when I said Iwanted to live my life armed, you
know, when, when the kids asked me,why did you want to become a cop?
Right.
So you need a job with no math, wantedto live my life armed, but really,
um, I'm just a believer in rule oflaw, fair play, mean people suck.

(02:04:04):
You know, um, that's it.
Um, life as hard enough as it is,uh, life can be horrific, um, way
more than I think the public know.
Right.
Like, I mean, I, I used to read,I think it was a bi weekly sex
assault report of all the sexassaults, reported sex assaults in

(02:04:24):
the lower mainland every two weeks.
I just stopped reading them because itwas so long, like there were so many.

That's just the reported ones.
And it's only

Ian Sim (02:04:32):
three, four, 5 percent of all of them that are even reported.
Right.
So I'm like, and I used to get, I usedto get, um, uh, read it, this Mexican
intelligence report from Mexico too.
And I'm just like, Oh,I'm full of pictures.
I'm like, no, no, no.
I'm just, I know what's going on.
Right.
Um, but we're already armed, right.

(02:04:55):
Um, we got eyes and earsand we've got instinct.
So that will carry you ifyou're using those most
of the way through life,but not all the way.
Right.
Um, You know, if, if, if, if, ifyou ignore your eyes and your ears.

(02:05:17):
In your spidey sense, your intuition,that gut feeling, or just straight
up, there's something wrong here.
The fact that you've got eyes, ears,cell phone, uh, or, or emergency
safety equipment on your person.
I mean, it's PPE, right?
Personal protective equipment.
Um, but you have to bepaying attention, right?
So you have to be kind of,there's a number of prerequisites.

(02:05:38):
You said the before, during and the after.
And again, that's what this book,Deadly Force really goes into.
It's, it's not really, Tactics ortechniques, it's things to think about
beforehand, um, during, and there'sa number of case studies that a lot
of people recognize from US mediaand then after, which is, is because.
Massive.
You know, the outfit, the organizationyou work for, I'll give you a lawyer.

(02:06:02):
Sure.
Are you going to get a good lawyer?
There's a lot of people in jail in theStates because they had terrible lawyers.

Mm.

Ian Sim (02:06:09):
Um, so they've been through the good, the bad and the ugly, far
more than we have up in this country.
So there's a wealth ofexperience in there.
So I've recommended it to peoplewho, um, don't own firearms.

Well, Masada Yube has got some good stuff
out there on YouTube as well.
Uh, there, there's one, uh, there'sactually two that I can think of.
There's two really good videosthat kind of deal with the after.
Uh, one is Basada Youb and he's talkingabout dealing with, um, a deadly force

(02:06:46):
encounter, dealing with law enforcementafterwards, dealing with the courts.
Uh, there's another one wherethere's a, um, I think he's a
public defender in the States.
And then he's got the, uh, apolice officer who comes in after
him and he says, look, I'm goingto give you equal time to talk.
I'm going to save my piece.
I'm going to talk really quicklyso I can get this all out.

(02:07:07):
I've got X amount of time.
And then you've got X amount of time.
And he is, his whole speech, thelawyer was Don't talk to the police.
Right.
And it's, it's an interesting onethat I think everybody should read
or sorry, everybody should watch andit's not, don't talk to the police
because the police are out there toget you, the police are your friend.
If you're in a situation where you noware required to have to talk to the

(02:07:32):
police, this lawyer outlines all thedifferent ways that it can go sideways.
Even if you're telling a hundredpercent truth and you've got the best
intentions, goes through all of thedifferent reasons, then the police
officer stands up and now it's hishalf hour to talk or his 10 minutes,
whatever it was that his half time was.
And he says, all I can say is recapitulatewhat he said, because everything he said

(02:07:59):
is true, nothing you can do is going to beable to help you in the moment afterwards.
You're not going to explain awayeverything and have it all figured out.
There are some things youcan do that'll make it worse.
Definitely.
So Masada Youb and the don't talk tothe police video are very interesting
after the fact ones, because if youare unfortunate enough to be involved.

(02:08:20):
In a situation where you weren'table to avoid it ahead of time
during the before or mitigate itor, um, cause it not to happen.
And you found yourself in theduring, and you're able to employ
the stuff that you know, in orderto be able to get out of it.
Alive, the after is the partthat can really ruin most people.

(02:08:44):
It can have the most negative effectsafter getting out of there because
the system that they figure is thereto protect them, they don't feel like
that if they've done things wrong, ifthey've said the wrong things afterwards.

Ian Sim (02:08:56):
Every lawyer in sales, when we put someone sales or even roadside
where they get their call to the lawyer.
It says, don't talk to the police.
We'll figure this out.
You've had a traumatic experience.
You're under the influenceof drugs and or alcohol.
You're having a mental health break.
Like there's so many thingslike now is not the right time.

(02:09:18):
And, you know, even with, we'll doour own debriefings, a more detailed
debriefing, what, 72 hours down the road.
Once the dust has settled and ourbrain has stopped spinning and
you know, we can process stuff.
I mean, there's no shortage of researchon the infallibility of eyewitnesses
and all kinds of stuff like that, right?

(02:09:38):
Memory the same.
We have a far better understandingof memory when you're going to
get your best, um, statement.
We as police officershave a duty to account.
So we have to kind of say toinvestigators that day or night.
Roughly what happened?
Uh, I think some police forcesnow are, aren't even doing that.
Uh, I don't know how that works.
Mm-Hmm.
But, um, you know, I, I think I oweit to, um, the public and I owe it

(02:10:04):
to the organization to give a, a verybrief description as to what happened

Mm-Hmm.

Ian Sim (02:10:09):
But that after that self-care.
And, and, you know, we'llget the rest sorted out.
So this book, again, no one thinks,well, more people are thinking
about it now in policing is, ispolice officers being charged.
Uh, in rare occasions, uh, oneor two of them have gone to jail,
um, media scrutiny, politics,the politicization of everything.

(02:10:36):
Thankfully we don't, um, electour prosecutors or our judges.
Because, you know, what's the bestway to make a name as a prosecutor,
judge, prosecute a cop, a movie star.
I don't know.
That was kind of the top.

Yeah.
You get yourself right out there.

Ian Sim (02:10:54):
Um, and the book goes into that and, and, um, yeah.

You know, there's one thing that I've, I haven't
seen this written about.
I haven't seen it through the, the wholedon't talk to the police and all the
reasons behind it that I've never seenpeople advocate for, but it's one thing
that I think people should consider,which is insofar as a lawyer is concerned.
It's if you find yourself in a lethalforce situation or whatever it might be,

(02:11:25):
whatever your roadside thing, whateverit might be, you talk to the lawyer, they
said, okay, have you talked to the cops?
Okay.
What'd you say?
Okay.
Don't say anything else, right?
Don't you're done.
Don't talk to him.
We'll figure it out afterwards.
The one thing that I haven't seen is, uh,the opposite, which is asking questions.
Because the whole, everything thatyou can say, can, everything you say

(02:11:48):
can and will be used against you inthe court of law, that, that whole
thing, Miranda rights or whatever.
Um.
Carmen Miranda?
Carmen, that's right.
We're the world.
That's American.
That's right.
Oh, I know that's American Mirandarights, but, uh, Canada, what do we have?
It's just, it's just a warning, right?
That's what they call it.
Well, it's your

Ian Sim (02:12:05):
charter rights.

Okay.

Ian Sim (02:12:06):
Yeah.
Your charter rights, uh, Canadiancharter rights and freedoms.
It's your, it's so, um, yeah, you'vebeen chartered, you've been warned.
Um, so it's

your charter rights.
So, um, that goes two ways too.
If you ask questions back to thepolice, why am I being arrested?
Why am I being detained withoutbeing a dink about things, because
obviously it's going to be ahuman nature in there and But.
Everything that's said back can alsobe used possibly in your favor in the
future, in the same way, that way you sayin the moment could be used against you.

(02:12:38):
So when you're

Ian Sim (02:12:39):
arrested, we tell you why, right?
So right off the bat, youare under arrest for this.
Do you understand, right?
And then you continue, you know,you don't have to say anything.
Anything you say can be used against you.
Do you understand?
Would you like to call a lawyer?
Do you understand?
And a lot of the time now it'srecorded on a digital recorder.
The whole conversation is recorded.

(02:13:01):
Now we're going to have body wornvideo in the not too distant future.
Um, you know, that'sgoing to record stuff too.
So I try and be as honest andopen with everybody I deal with.
Um, including, you Someone who you'rearresting for a domestic homicide.

(02:13:23):
Um, particularly with aserious file like that, right?
You want everything done, slow it down.
Make sure you check off all the boxes.
They're going to be rechartered andwarned a number of times anyways, once a
homicide or I hit investigators get there.
So

(02:13:45):
I'm not, I'm not out to trick anyone.

No, a hundred percent.
Yeah.

Ian Sim (02:13:49):
And, and I

will, um.
Most police aren't,there's going to be that.
My, my opinion, um, growing up in a lawenforcement family, dealing with a lot
of for enforcement fam, uh, dealing withlaw enforcement, both professionally and
personally, is that the majority of lawenforcement get in for very great reasons.

(02:14:11):
They've got a good hiringprocess here in Canada.
They've got good training in Canada,and we've got some phenomenal people.
You're going to have your very smallpercentage that are just rotten apples.
You're going to have your very smallpercentage that are just leagues
above superstars and then over time,people are people and they're going to

(02:14:35):
see, I just arrested that person andthey're out again, 10 minutes later.
And man, I still got a job to do.
There's a reason we have gametrails because animals take
the least, the easiest Path.
Creature of habit.
People will take the easiest path.
They'll still do their job.
They're still majority are going tobe of a high caliber, but they'll

(02:14:57):
just plug and play and go through.
So by no means do we think that thepolicing are going to be out to get you.
I think the majority of them aregoing to be well intentioned,
but you know, if there's an easypath, we can go through here.
And I mean, ABC, we'll go, we'll letthe courts figure it out afterwards.
I'll go through my process.
If you give somebody their warning as apeace officer, okay, you're being arrested

(02:15:22):
for ABC and D well, stolen vehicle, right.
Or whatever it might be, or speeding, or,you know, Oh, did you see me speeding?
Well, no, I mean, youmatched the description.
Well, what was the description, right?
And all of these little things that youcan go through, and I'm not advocating
for, for bad people to get off the hook,but for people who haven't done something

(02:15:44):
wrong, because I've dealt with othersin similar circumstances, I've been
in a similar circumstance in the past.
And, um, Asking thosequestions at the time.
Why do you feel this?
Fair enough.
I'm not fighting you.
Right.
We're not turning this into a fight,but I'll ask some questions as you
go through, because all of that can,can speed up a process later on a

(02:16:06):
process that might take, uh, let's sayeight years to work its way through
a system could be sped up to, Idon't know, maybe a month, it can be.
And when they turn around andrealize, okay, maybe we weren't
operating off of the right, uh,information or circumstances.
So that, that was one little piecethat I've seen the asking questions

(02:16:27):
part, which I haven't seen out there.

Ian Sim (02:16:30):
And you know, it's interesting because people talk to me about
certain policing stuff, right?
I mean, once you got a cop in uniformthere, cause who talks to cops in uniform?
I mean, when we knock on the doorwith bad news or we pull you over.
Right.
Um, but when do you, when do yousee a police officer chilling that,
that, that, and most people won'tapproach a cop anyways, right?

(02:16:52):
Like to ask questions.
So we have to put ourselves out therein our community, out of the cars,
on foot, on bikes, have to put theright people out there who, um, are.
Are willing to talk to the publicwhen the public come up to them.
Yes.
I would suggest you need to put the rightpeople out there who will go and talk to
the public because many of them won't.

(02:17:14):
The minute the ice isbroken, everything changes.
So.
That's me, we're all different,um, different stages of our
career, uh, good days, bad days.
Uh, policing can do better.
So there's talk about, um,
changing the policing model in Canada tomuch of the finish, the finish policing

(02:17:38):
model, three, three year program,um, kind of a combination between
police college and post secondary, uh,with, with a focus on, uh, policing.
Uh, more relevant stuff, deescalation,ground fighting, um, jujitsu.
Um, so six months at depo or at thejustice institute of BC or the Ontario

(02:18:00):
police college or whatever it's called.

Sure.

Ian Sim (02:18:03):
Uh, I think we could use more than six months.
Hmm.
Um, you coming in with a fouryear degree of even criminology.
Okay.
Um, we know you can think criticallyabout things, um, but can you
pass the physical abilities test?
Uh, like there's, there's a lot of thingsI think as, as an industry and, and I

(02:18:26):
think we're moving in that direction,we can do better, we should do better.
Um, we're held to a highstandard, which we should be.

Sure.

Ian Sim (02:18:36):
However, I think there's one group of individuals in this country
who should be held to a higher standard.

Yes.
I think I know who you're talking about.

Ian Sim (02:18:43):
And our elected officials don't seem to be very interested in being held
to anywhere near the standard that we are.
Sure.
And I think that resultsin a lot of problems.
Um, I know, like, I knowsome current mayors.
I know some past mayors.
I know some who wants to be premier.

(02:19:05):
I know the premier through my, he,he bumped into a number of times.
Um, I gave him a couple of books.
I gave him a book ontransnational organized crime
called McMafia, fantastic book.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (02:19:20):
Um, and it had some discussions with them because it's what I do.
Um, but yeah, we need to up ourgame, um, you know, for a fabulously
wealthy country, our infrastructures.

You know, I read a statistic about, um, uh, about corruption and
it says, you know, you go to Mexico,you go to some third world countries
and the rules are clear, right?
You slip them some money, getout of the speeding ticket.
There's a lot of low level corruption.
Canada is next to nonefor low level corruption.

(02:20:00):
However, at the higher level, higherlevel corruption is through the roof.
So, And that's where thelack of accountability is.
And it's, if that statistic is truethat I've looked at, that would probably
account for some of the, some of theissues that we see on a regular basis.

Ian Sim (02:20:17):
Well, uh, you know, shortly after I gave, uh, David Eby that
book on transnational organizedcrime, was it short, he did the
money laundering inquiry came out.
I don't know if it was shortly afterthat, or I think it was before.
And he certainly didn't, um, startthe inquiry because I gave him a book.

Um, but.
I think it came out into the publicperception though, people, there's some
hue and cry over the money laundering and.

Ian Sim (02:20:45):
But no one was held accountable.
So, you know, there's a, there's a,there's an old fashioned concept called
personal responsibility, it's ancient,really, no one talks about it anymore.
Um,
I was quite impressed that a, you know,kind of leftist NDP government was going
to, you know, initiate a, a big needed,you know, law enforcement type thing.

(02:21:12):
It kind of, I think, stopped halfwaythrough and no one was held accountable.
I think that's a problem.
Um, our infrastructure is crumbling,fabulously wealthy country.
Uh, I think we just need to getback to basics and build on that.

(02:21:34):
We're part of that.
So we're part of theinfrastructure policing.
We should do better.
Um, you know, I'll stand at thetop of trail six, which is the
top of the trail, uh, that goes500 stairs down to wreck beach.
And I do foot patrol still,obviously I'm old school, but.
Um, and people go, Hey boss.

(02:21:54):
And I'm like,
you've got that wrong.
And they're like,
I said, yeah, it's, it'sthe other way around.
Right.
And they're like, and they don'tknow what I'm talking about.
I go, you're my boss.
I work for you.
It's not just a line.

(02:22:15):
I work for you, that's my job.
So I get, I report to the RCMP.
I don't work for them.
I report to them kind of like a franchise.
I'm a franchise owner.
I own my own franchise.
Um, you know, the, the head company,parent company is pretty good.

(02:22:36):
But like any old bureaucratic,conservative organization,
it could do better.
So I think some of my standardsand concepts and ideas are
sometimes better than the parentcompany, but it's a franchise.
You do as you're told, um,
but I work for you.

So I've got some friends who work in corrections and they
say that, uh, it's an insult fromthe, um, the cons as they call them.
Yes.
They call it, call you a bossbecause it's SOB backwards.
Right.

Ian Sim (02:23:10):
Yep.
And I understand the difference.
I understand.
You know who you're talking

to when they say it.
Right.
And

Ian Sim (02:23:16):
I understand if they're American kids, for the
most part, Canadian students.
Um, yeah, I, I, yeah,I'm, I'm pretty good.
And, and words matter, right.
Um, you know, I've studiedterrorism for decades.
Um, both personally and professionally.
My mom would say I started off as alittle kid, but, um, words matter.

(02:23:38):
And.
You know, when I look at a lot of theantisemitic stuff happening recently
around post secondary educations,
I saw that stuff almost a decadeago when I got to UBC, you could
see the groundwork being laid.

(02:23:59):
Not intentionally, but you know,the, the censorship, um, you can't
say this, but you can say this and,and, and the intimidation and stuff.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (02:24:11):
And, you know, I don't think there's ever been a genocide in the
history of the world where it didn't startwith a demonization of particular group.
And it's, it always startswith words, you know, um.
And Noam Chomsky would havesomething to say about that.
Haven't read him in a long time, decades.

(02:24:33):
But, um.
And then I look and I'mlike, this is no surprise.

Um,

Ian Sim (02:24:40):
you know, and I, and I was, there's, there's something called
the Chicago principles, I think.
Okay.
Chicago university oruniversity of Chicago.
And they, and the minute you Google it,it pops up, but, um, yeah, you're not
here at Chicago university to be safe.

(02:25:02):
Say physically, but, but, um, you'regoing to be here, uh, unpopular,
contrary, um, opinions, discussions.
That's what you're here for, right?
Um, the exact opposite of a lot of theso called woke, um, cancel culture stuff.

(02:25:23):
So the Chicago principles, um, soas a counter terrorism information
officer, uh, working on auniversity campus, rec beach, um,
I could see this groundwork being laid.

(02:25:44):
We used to call it political correctness.
It takes different names, differentforms, but it's no surprise that,
um, that caught fire the day afterOctober 7th, or was it the 6th, 7th?
Um, And it was like, thegroundwork was already laid.
It's, I could see it coming and, and thenyou see why it's entrenched because you

(02:26:11):
can entrench anything, racism, right?
Uh, uh, goodwill, like you canentrench, entrench anything, just.
Get them in school for a whileand just keep pumping them with
whatever message you want to do.
So, you know, someone was asking me,well, what can we do at universities to,

(02:26:36):
to try and get us back on course, um,friendlier, more civilized discussions.
At the post secondary level.
And I said, well, I don't know, whydon't you pull all the money from post
secondary institutions in the province,unless they adhere to the Chicago

(02:26:58):
principles in both, uh, word and deed.
Cause money gets people'sattention like nobody else.
That's it.
Or nothing else.

Money and power.
So Chicago

Ian Sim (02:27:08):
principles, um.
Um, maybe funding, provincial fundingshould be somewhat tied to, to that.
Um, you know, the Westdoesn't know at all.
Um, we, but we do a lot of things, right.
And much of the world lookedto us or did even still, we all

(02:27:28):
need to try and up our game.
Um, I don't think the electedofficials know what they don't know.
They don't have any idea that effectiveand enduring community safety.
Is comprised of public safety, which istheir responsibility and personal safety.
They don't know what to do now.

(02:27:48):
They're sitting there twiddlingtheir thumbs going, Oh crap.
You know, uh, the liberals aresaying, well, yeah, maybe we'll
do some bail reform under C75.
Polyev's going, you know, jail, not bail.
There's more to it than that.

Well, how do you, how do you make personal sale, how do you
make personal safety saleable, how dothey make, uh, money off of personal
safety or how do they make that winhearts and minds and votes by advocating
for people to look after themselves?

Ian Sim (02:28:25):
Well, we talk a big game where politicians talk a big game about rights.
You know, um, listen to theliberals, um, advocating for, um,
Uh, reproductive rights for women,

a woman's

Ian Sim (02:28:37):
right to choose, it's front and center.

Every

Ian Sim (02:28:40):
election it's front and center again.
Okay, well, let's have a discussion onrights in this country, particularly
the right of all rights, section sevenof the charter, security of person.
Yes, a woman's right to chooseis, is, is up there, but as that

(02:29:00):
other woman told me recently.
It's not exactly as it's been portrayed.
Maybe a woman's right to chooseis, is primarily how, when,
and if to choose to protect herlife and the lives of her kids.
Once you're safe, we'lldiscuss all the other rights.
So we need, um, bit more of the charter.

(02:29:24):
In our high schools, we need, uh,maybe a whole course, I don't know.
Um, but you can tie it into civicsor social studies or history.

Or into everything and just have a little bit
over and over and over again.
So

Ian Sim (02:29:38):
into everything.

Right.
Um,

Ian Sim (02:29:42):
we, um, rights just need to be a topic of discussion all the time.
So when you see in the news todayat either the local level or
federal level, um, on CKW, uh,when they talk about public safety
is usually the term they use.

Right.

Ian Sim (02:30:00):
Um, that's fine.
We'll just call it public safety.

Sure.

Ian Sim (02:30:03):
But it, it, it takes a village to raise a child.
Uh, I think the more parents, the better,not getting any further than that.
I just think the more supportchildren have, the better they are.

Hmm.
I mean.
Two

Ian Sim (02:30:22):
parents, uh, brothers, sisters, relatives, but it takes
a village to raise a child.
It takes a village to keep itself safe.
Canadians are going to have to re engagein, um, looking out for each other.
Can't, we can't do it in isolation.

(02:30:43):
We can't arrest our wayout of this problem.
Like not a chance.
We are missing fully 50 percent of what weneed, probably more, for community safety.
And through any number, a numberof factors of which we have no
control, some we do, um, thingsare not going that well right now.

(02:31:04):
We can turn a lot of that around.
Um, and, and the nice thing is, is if thegovernment is unwilling or unable to do
Do their public safety job, uh, better.
The personal safety part is youdon't need anyone's permission.
That's the most important right you have.

(02:31:26):
You can take as much controlof it as you want or none, you
don't need anyone's permission.
I get it.
Most police forces won't talk about it.
I don't think they know even what

to talk

Ian Sim (02:31:40):
about.
VPD.
Does a women's self defense course.
They have a number of female instructors.
I would love to have sat in on thecourse, but they wouldn't let me.
No big deal.
Um,
even if we don't teach self defenseand talk about, uh, tools, um, we

(02:32:03):
can talk about personal safety.
In a, in a, in a, in a, in a very,really, uh, I could cover everything I've
covered here in, in a, in a one and ahalf hour course with a half hour Q and A.

Right.

Ian Sim (02:32:18):
I think all police departments need to, cause our
core mandate is public safety.
So we've had it, you know,the DARE program was for don't
do drugs, just so you know.
Um, SEPTED, uh, crime preventionthrough environmental design is,
you know, to rent, B& Es, thefts.
Where's the personal safety component?

Well, I think people are afraid to advocate for personal safety
based on, uh, Well, I think persons outthere are fearful for the consequence
if they enact personal safety, becauseit's not talked about, they don't know
the parameters that they're allowed tobe able to deal with, and they don't
know what those rights look like.

(02:33:00):
And then on the other side would be,and I'll play devil's advocate here.
Please.
Um, That's how you get good policy.
Sure.
I think governments look atliability associated with telling
people that they can protectthemselves and things go sideways.
So they'll say, no, no,no, we'll protect you.
Right.
Don't protect yourself.
You lock yourself in the room.

(02:33:20):
We'll be there in a little bit.
And if they turn around and say, getout there, protect yourself before this
gets too bad, um, what do they wear?
So people are so risk adverseat all different levels.
That they start creating a systemwhere they figure it's illusory.
It's, it's, it's not real.
You don't, you can't have apolice force out there that

(02:33:40):
protects everybody all the time.
It's reactive.

Ian Sim (02:33:47):
So I understand people's concern, hesitancy, Liability thoughts, uh, as an
organization, I'm, I doubt my company,my outfit is going to have anything to
do with, um, self defense, anything wecan, we can talk about personal safety.

(02:34:16):
Uh, from a rights based perspective,
and I'm not talking fluff here.
I don't think we'vetalked any fluff today.
I think we've talkedabsolutely concrete essentials.
So we can have, let's say inevery police detachment, a

(02:34:38):
community safety coordinator,
Who can coordinate all the sectionsand support services in a detachment,
going in the same direction.
So that would be, um, GD patrol, dealingwith domestic victims and writing safety

(02:35:02):
plans and saying, you know what, There's acouple of good books out there among many.
Um, so we're going to tell you to dothis, this, this, this, all this stuff.
There's a good bookcalled The Gift of Fear.

By Gavin DeBecker.
It's

Ian Sim (02:35:18):
been around for a couple of decades.
It's been updated.
I think that book should bein every high school library
and on every counselor's desk.
I also think that schooladministrators Um, should also have
the book transition houses, safehouses should all have the book.
It's not deadly force,

(02:35:42):
but for the vast majority of the publicwho aren't that inclined or particularly
interested in the self defensecomponent and prevention is the key.
If we do a really good job onprevention, You'll never need that stuff.
It's like martial arts.

Right.

Ian Sim (02:35:59):
I think the, the majority of the benefits of martial arts
are, um, sense of community,fitness, self esteem, socialization.
Um, you may need it tosave your ass one day.
And that's important too.
It's just that you probably won'tuse it for that all the time.

Right.

Ian Sim (02:36:23):
But all these other things that you do get from it are fantastic.
And parents can do it with theirkids, you know, I mean, super cool.
Right.
And most kids in martial arts, justlook at one or the two of their
parents, maybe both, like it's

same

Ian Sim (02:36:37):
like shooting, golf, whatever.

Sure.

Ian Sim (02:36:40):
So from a policing perspective, community safety coordinator, every
detachment to get the detachment on board.
Get victim services with GavinDeBecker's book, A Gift of Fear.
Recommending your safetyplans to your victims.
Special Victims Unit canalso Recommend it as well.
Um, there are others.

(02:37:02):
I just happen to thinkit's one of the best.

What was your big takeaway from that book?

Ian Sim (02:37:06):
Oh, where to start?
Um,
it has a little somethingin there for everybody.
They talked about media personalities.
Movie stars, TV stars, straight updomestic violence victims, a great

(02:37:27):
section on, for HR people on how tofire, um, um, problematic employees and
considerations before, during and after.
It'd be great for school boards.
Like I just, I think for the,cause there's going to be a whole.
Segment of the population that'sgoing to start twitching the minute

(02:37:48):
we talk about, um, civilian ATC.
Sure.
Authorization to carry.
Um, you're going to have cops twitching,just the thought of the LLDA, the last
line of defense out carrying off shift.
No, one's going to really twitchreading Gavin DeBecker's book.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (02:38:06):
Um,
I, I think it's a fantastic bookfor the vast majority of the
population, particularly policymakers.
So if we get a community safetycoordinator detachment level, getting,
you know, special victims unit, everyonekind of moving in that direction,
we get, um, community policing andschool liaison to try and get that

(02:38:28):
book, um, in, in high school librariesand on the counsellor's desks.
We talk to our safe houses andtransition houses in our communities.
Refer that book and any other bookthey want to buy, victim services
are dealing with the victims, right?
And then we take it outsideof the detachment to the

(02:38:51):
community and we focus on, um,
community safety,
public safety, and personal safety.
Nothing contentious, no liability.
It's your right.
It always has been.

(02:39:13):
Self preservation isthe first law of nature.
Security of person is thefirst law of humanity.
We'll explore the charter a bit.
We'll explore the criminal code a bit.
We'll talk about good preventative means.
The questions are always going to come up.
Can I carry a knife?
Can I carry a gun?

(02:39:33):
All this stuff, baseball bat.
It just goes on.
For folks who want, worst casescenario is you have no tools.
So go empty hand first.
Martial arts, then work ontools, tools require training.
They, they require, uh, considerablymore thought before, during, and after.

(02:39:58):
So empty hand skills are better.
Um, and before you get into empty handskills, you can get into other skills.
Sure.
De escalation, avoidance, talking.
I've never had to use my martial arts.
I studied a World War II style of,of empty hand fighting, defend you.
So, um, Dangerous Dan, William Fairbairn,um, you know, uh, Shanghai Municipal

(02:40:23):
Police, uh, went to, back to Britain,Second World War and taught all the
commandos, including Canadian commandos.
At camp X in Ontario.
Um, I learned it from a, a formerCanadian forces guy who trained
with Colonel Rex Applegate inOregon in the years before he died.
He

saw his book up there too.
I did.
Yeah.

Ian Sim (02:40:44):
So, I mean, I kind of think, wow, Fairbairn taught Applegate.
Applegate taught myinstructor and then I got it.
Like the lineage, it's a very short line.
And it's, it's, it's not,it's just destroying people.

It's,

Ian Sim (02:41:01):
you know, few arm blows, few leg blows and a few other unpleasant things.
It's just to save your life.
Um, never needed to use it at work,probably never would, unless it was an
extreme case because it's, it's not.
It's not nice takedowns, comealongs, it's none of that stuff.
Um, but I've never had to use it causeI talk to people and I use humor to,

(02:41:25):
um, connect with, you can make someonelaugh, smirk even, you're, you're,
you're kind of ahead of the game.
You know, I've sat in roomswith, um, heavily tattooed,
um, motorcycle enthusiasts.

Hmm.

Ian Sim (02:41:43):
You know, everyone talks to the police at some point.
Or it's death or in jail.
One of each.
Um,
it's all because, uh, part of itwas because it was my job and, and
that was the unit I was working in.
But, but part of it is because theysought me out cause they liked me.

If I

Ian Sim (02:42:00):
have to talk to a cop, who's it going to be?
Somebody you respect.
Or, or at least don't hate becausehe liked my dog, I got a pit bull.
Like we have something in common.
Right.
He liked my bike.
He made me laugh.
It's just.
He just, he didn't treat me like shit.

Yeah.
You have to feel like there'ssome form of a connection there.

Ian Sim (02:42:19):
So again, you know, when I'm talking to young constables
and, and, and, you know, new inservice, um, that person might be
your source one day, um, be polite.
Be professional, um, humor, humorcan cross some of those boundaries,

(02:42:41):
find commonality, but findcommonality with everyone you're
out talking to, schools, community.
You got to get out of your car.
We're short staffed, people arebusy, but you know, again, um, we
can do a better job in this outfit.
It's not rocket science.

Uh,

Ian Sim (02:43:00):
defund us, not a chance.

It's

Ian Sim (02:43:02):
going to be more expensive.
Um, but Canada can afford us.
Well, I don't know.
I don't know where all the money's gone.
Didn't go to infrastructure, I guess.
But we just, I, you know, we don'thave community safety coordinators.
I think we need one in every detachment.
I think we need to get thedetachment on the same page.
Then we go into the communityand do the preventative stuff.

(02:43:24):
We have the victims already.
We should be, cause now we'vegot an interested audience.
Yes.
Maybe for a short period of time,but maybe not, but, and you know,
we, we just get the concept ofrights when we talk at schools.
Let's talk about community safety,but throw the charter in, right?
We don't need government'spermission to look out for ourselves.

(02:43:47):
Exercising the most important humanright you have is not taking things
into your own hands, it's not.
So when you hear that, it's like time out.
No, no, no.
Let's have a chat.
A

hundred percent agree.
Ian, is there anything thatwe should be talking about
that we haven't talked about?

Ian Sim (02:44:12):
Yes, but I'll, I'll remember it on the drive home, uh,
or tonight, or when I'm debriefingthis in my head all afternoon.
Um, yeah, I mean, I'll go to my coffeeshop in North Van and always with a book.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (02:44:26):
And have a big cup of tea.
And I probably won't pick up my book once.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (02:44:30):
Because there's just, uh, lots going on.
Um.

I hear you.
I hear you.
I

Ian Sim (02:44:36):
jump, I apologize.
Cause I, I kinda, I'm a bit of a squirrel.
I jump around.

Yeah.
I got ADHD.
I can, I can chase squirrels all day.
I've

Ian Sim (02:44:42):
never been assessed, but, um.
You know, I, I think there'ssome common themes in there.

There are.

Ian Sim (02:44:49):
And
I need help from mycommunity, which is Canada.
I need help from my community,which is team Canada.
And we can, we can startturning this around.
There's some big problems out there,uh, mental health, opioid addiction,

(02:45:14):
all that stuff, um, Russia, China, Iran,like there's a lot going on in the world.
So, you know, think global, but we can actlocal, uh, policing can do a better job.
Um, I think community safety coordinatorat every detachment, and I'll be happy
to write the national course if theywant, uh, it's not rocket science.

(02:45:35):
We can just do a better job.
Resources are a bit of a problem.
Um, we need to educate our, um, educators.
We need to educate municipal,provincial and federal politicians.
It'll be easier To it, to, to, um,engage our municipal politicians,
probably they're accessible.

Sure.

Ian Sim (02:45:57):
Right.
Um,
community safety is highlydependent on personal safety.
You don't need anyone's permission.
There's good resources out there.
Um, deadly force by Masada Yoube.
Uh, this is a history book, uh, tokeep in bear arms, but Gavin DeBecker's
book, uh, the gift of fear is excellent.

(02:46:19):
Um, local police departmentshould be able to help you.
Uh, Say hi to a cop when you're out.
Yeah.
I mean, right now I'mout, it's summertime.
Um, and I got to carry all this cash.
I carry all these loonies and toonies.
My buddy's like, youalways carry your card.
What's going on?
I go, yeah, except for in thesummer, because there's lemonade
stands out there and like, getout of your car, talk to people.

(02:46:41):
Most people like us in Canada.
Contrary to what youmight hear in the media.
Um, most kids like us.

Yeah.

Ian Sim (02:46:48):
Um, we can, we can turn a lot of this around.
Um, you and your industry, um,should have both these books in
every firearm store in the country.
And why don't we start teaching, um,Women's defensive pistol class, um,
it's put in the cart before the horse.

(02:47:08):
Cause we don't have civilian

ATC,

Ian Sim (02:47:12):
but why don't we start teaching William women's defensive
pistol courses around the country.
Silver Corps, Millbrook, there's abunch of other people out there now.
There's a lot of military peopleout there who are looking for
firearms instructors jobs.
We could start that and, andletting women know that, This is
the most important right you have.

(02:47:32):
Indigenous communities too.
Um, they're looking foreconomic opportunities.
We are short of ranges across the country.
So if you want to address somecommunity safety problems in your
community, maybe an indoor and outdoorrange is, is, is a good economic,
a viable economic opportunity.

(02:47:54):
Uh, if it's indoor range,you can shoot all winter.
You're going to attract people witha pal, all of whom proven by the
government of Canada aren't criminals.
Um, and let's keep thisconversation going.
Um, we don't have towait till the feds do it.
Provinces could start some of this,if only the LLDA allowing us to

(02:48:17):
carry off shift or mandating it
as low risk as you can getcost taxpayers, nothing.
And let's, let's, uh, do that.
Um, You know, it takes a community,keep itself safe and let's
start turning this thing around.

Ian, thank you so much for being on the Suffolk Road Podcast.
I really enjoyed the discussion here.

Ian Sim (02:48:36):
My pleasure.
I'd heard about you.
I saw you last night for my first podcast.
I'm really glad I got to meet you.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 144: Armed for Safety: An RCMP Insider’s Fight for Self-Defense Rights in Canada

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Ep. 144: Armed for Safety: An RCMP Insider’s Fight for Self-Defense Rights in Canada

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