Ep. 145 Hunting, History, and Hits: Inside Sweden’s Wild Outdoors and Country Music Scene with Robin Winther

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Travis Bader (00:13):
Over the last few weeks, I had the privilege of traveling to Finland.
Estonia, Norway, Sweden, and Iceland.
What started as an invitationto hunt in Sweden quickly turned
into something much larger.
As many of you know, I'm a long time fanof Sako firearms and Norma ammunition.
With help from my friends at StokerCanada, who are proud Silvercore

(00:36):
Club Brad affiliates, I was able toconnect directly with both companies.
I couldn't have imagined theincredible reception we'd receive.
Both Sako in Finland and NormaAmmunition in Sweden went above and
beyond, rolling out the red carpetto show me and my wife the exacting
processes behind their brands, and,more importantly, to introduce us to the

(00:58):
passionate people who make it all happen.
At Saco, eight team members generouslytook time out of their busy schedules to
walk us through their amazing facilities.
And at Norma, two representativesdrove over three hours just to stay
at our hotel and guide us throughtheir factory tour the next day.
I was blown away, not only by theprecision, the robotic automation,

(01:21):
the state of the art technologies, butby the human element behind it all.
Despite all the marvels of modernday automation, I discovered
something profoundly reassuring.
That human touch is still irreplaceable.
Sure, the machines were cool, butwhat captured my attention even more
was the passion and dedication of thepeople who make those machines work.

(01:45):
Despite the automation at the frontend, there is still a heavy emphasis on
the human touch on every product thatleaves a door at the end of the process.
For example, did you know that when you'rechecking the straightness of a barrel,
nothing has yet to surpass a human eye?
When examining ammunition, visually andphysically inspecting cartridges yield

(02:06):
a higher level of guaranteed consistencythan machines alone are able to provide.
But this trip wasn't just abouttouring factories, I had a chance
to hunt in Sweden with Robinand his friends in Solaron.
These incredible people didn'tknow me from Adam, yet they came
together to organize several daysof hunting in their traditional

(02:27):
Swedish style on historic grounds.
These moments, the trust, theconnections, the shared experiences
are what this podcast is all about.
They remind me of a couple ofsayings I've shared here before.
Ones that ring even moretrue after this trip.
The first, it's not personal.

(02:48):
It's just business.
You've likely heard that phrasebefore, and I got to tell you, it's
one I completely disagree with.
To me, business is deeply personal.
It's built on trust, consistency,and meaningful relationships.
Separate the personal for theprofessional, and you'll lose a
foundation that holds it all together.

(03:10):
The second, show me your friendsand I'll show you who you are.
The people I had the privilegeof meeting on this trip are
not just great at what they do.
They're great people.
And that makes all the difference.
With that said, let's get started.
Let's get on with the podcast.
Hey, Hey.
Hey man.
Coming to you from Sigtuna, Sweden.

(03:32):
And I am sitting down with Sweden'shottest up and coming country music star.
He is a passionate hunter,angler, conservationist.
Welcome to the Silvercorepodcast, Robin Winter.

Robin Winther (03:45):
Thank you so much, Travis, an honor to be here and be in
the podcast and have you guys here asguests, it's been an awesome weekend.

This is the first time that I've recorded and somebody else is running
around taking care of all the audio levelsand, and all the professional stuff.
Uh, Robin is a professional singer,songwriter, um, music guy all around,
you've been, you've been doingmusic for what, since you've been
like, Four years old, or before?
Ha ha!

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's been music, like, a, a really long time.
I actually started out playingtrombone, out of all instruments.
The

trombone?

The trombone, yeah.
Was that like a school thing?
They said you gotta play it?
School thing, gotta play.
My parents are both playinginstruments, and, uh, I actually
wanted to play the trumpet.
Okay.
But it was full.
So , they put me ontrombone in the orchestra.
I, no, I, I didn't love it.
I, I kind of, no, it was, it was rough.
But, you know, it's, I thinkget me started, you know,

(04:41):
you have to use your ears.
'cause you know, you don'thave a, it's like a slide.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I don't get that.
Why?
If someone's got an interest in anything.
Right.
If you're an interest in, in huntingor fishing, if you have an interest in.
Music, why starting themoff on the recorder, right?
I remember when, that'swhat we did in Canada.
We've got these recorders andyou're playing hot cross buns
and everyone, I've never hearda professional recorder player.

(05:05):
Maybe they got them, but they all quit.
Yeah.
I don't think you can make it sound good.
Start it with a cool instrumentand, and spark that interest.
If people from North America arelistening to this and they're like a,
Swedish, country, Western music star.
I don't know if I've heard yourmusic and I'll tell you this much.

(05:25):
If you've listened to any episodeof the Silvercore podcast,
you've heard Robin's music.
Robin has been a part of theSilvercore podcast from day one.
I, oh yeah, I was, so I went online.
I'm putting a podcast together.
I don't really know what I'm doing,but I'm figuring it out as I go.
But I want to have really coolmusic, sort of like Sonic brand

(05:49):
this and have a really cool sound.
That I can have as my intro and outro.
And I found one and it was, I licensed it.
It was an online licensingservice and, and I love it.
And it's been on every singleepisode on the intro and outro.
But after five years, I'm looking at it.
I said, I want to have somethingthat's unique and that not
everybody can go out and license.

(06:09):
And I don't want to change itup too much because I really
love the flavor and the style.
I don't know if there's any placeelse that I can really find this.
And I thought, well, what if Itrack down the artist who originally
made the song that I really liked?
And I did, it took sometime of tracking down.
It was hard.
You, you, you had, I guess the differentcompanies that you worked through had

(06:34):
different names associated with you.
And, and, uh, I wasn't sure if Iactually found the right place,
but I was able to find you.
And here's the weird part, so you're inSweden, and I'm like, holy crows, other
side of the world from where I'm from.
And you're like, oh yeah, yeah, my,my girlfriend, she's from Langley,
and um, she grew up in Richmond.
Yeah.

(06:54):
Which is like, straddlingLadner, where, where I live.
What a small world.

It's insane.
You know, when I got this email, Ithought it was like a spam email.
It's like, I have this podcast, youknow, you get, you get this, all
these weird emails, like, I wantto build you a website or whatever.
And I saw this email, Iwas like, is this real?
I don't know.
I'll just put it into answerlately, further down the road.

(07:21):
I'll look into it.
And it, it's insane.
Like, I don't know, itgot a couple of weeks.
I don't remember how long you had to wait,but yeah, we were at have a small summer
like fishing cabin up in the north ofSweden and Me and my my girlfriend from
Langley were sitting out on the on theporch and we're like so I got this email

(07:42):
And I wonder if it's real from this guyIt's like it's like a podcaster or he was
talking about a song that I did Ten yearsago for this company and because those
songs that it for that company They werelike non like a license free song, right?
Yeah, so everyone could use itSo I thought it was like, oh you
something connected like a spam orsomething connected to the songs

(08:04):
cuz everyone could use it yeah,pretty much and So read it again.
I was like, oh, this seems legit.
So I'll answer it and likePretty fast, got to respond,
like, Hey man, that's so fun.
Uh, can I call you onWhatsApp or something?
And you call me and here we are today.

Yeah, that was, well, so a friend of mine, Carl Fox,
he says, uh, Travis, you've beendoing this podcast for a while.
You love it.
You're making some amazingconnections, meeting some amazing
people and people keep coming up.
They say, Oh, you shouldcome on out hunting.
You should come out wherever it might be.
Right.
And.
And I keep saying, no,no, no, no, I'm busy.
You know, I'm running the business.
I'm doing whatever,all these other things.

(08:49):
He says, you gotta start saying yes.
And actually a few episodes ago, I startedit off with a, be a yes man, right?
Oh, wow.
Somebody says, come on out, maybeit's outside your comfort zone.
And I got no problem pushing mycomfort zone, but you know, you get
into these routines in life, right?
And you get into these areas of, youknow, Work and family and friends and,

(09:13):
and all the rest where it's kind of wellbalanced, but you have to push those
boundaries if you really want to grow.
And so I just started saying, yes.
And you said, Hey.
Uh, if you're ever out in Sweden,uh, we should go for a hunt.
And I

said, he said, yes.
And I thought you were thebravest man in the world.
Like you're reaching out to this guyyou don't know on the other side of
the Atlantic and invites you to hunt.
And you're just like, all right, I'llbook, I'll book, I'll book a plane ticket.
And I'll come over.
Yeah.

So that was, that was really cool.
I mean, you don't, you Often getopportunities like this in life.
And when you do, if you just say noout of politeness or no, because you
got a busy schedule, You're missing outon, well, I would have missed out on
meeting you and all your amazing friends.

(10:04):
So we were in this area, am Iallowed to say where we were?
Yeah,

of course.

All right.
So, uh, we went out to anarea in Sweden called Solaron.
Yep.
Saying that right?
Yeah.
Sun Island.
Sun Island.
In old Swedish, prettymuch, that's what it means.
And you know what?
I should probably take a step back.
Cause it's kind of funny.
I'm decked out in my Fjällräven, uh, pantsand Fjällräven shirt to show some homage
to Sweden and you've got your John Deerehat on, and you're wearing your Canadian

(10:31):
Tire hat the other day and your car heart.
And that's funny.
We, we look in the garage out here and yougot a 66 Ford with an inline six on there.
And.
It's, um, it, I, we've got ourroles reversed here, but so,
um, Solaron, awesome place.
So just outside of Mora, so there'sa company, I use their knives.

(10:54):
Um, uh, Morakniv, Morakniv,am I saying that right?
Yeah.
Morakniv.
And they make affordable knives.
I use it for hunting and fishing.
They're lightweight.
I throw them in my pack and ifI want to rat bag it or, or lend
it out, I don't care becauseit's, I'm not breaking the bank.
And anyways, Guatemala had to stop bytheir place, check their stuff out.

(11:14):
That was pretty amazing.
Coming back with a bunch of knivesprior to that was in Finland
and was at the Saco factory.
That was really cool.
Did a full tour there.
What an amazing group of people out there.
I shoot SOCO, been using them for,for years and years, and I'm looking
at their, their new models andeverything they're, they're putting out.
They've got a museum inthere, their production line.

(11:36):
That, that was neat looking atall the robots and machines,
putting everything together.
And even with all the high techautomation, final step is human
eye, looking over everything,it's got the human touch and
then over to, uh, to Norma.
Yeah.
So Norma in Sweden, and we've been Got atour of the Animal Factory and actually

(11:57):
they were, uh, Jonas was, uh, nice enoughto provide some ammunition to use on the
recent hunt that we had here in Solar Run.
So, nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And um, so you're coming on up,it's what, few hours from here?
3, 3, 4 hours.
Three, four hours up Northwest.
Yeah.
And you are like, I got a group of people.

(12:17):
They're excited to meet you.
You'll like it.
It's a beautiful area.
It's a bit of a throwbackfor, uh, for Sweden.
Tell me about it.

I would say it's, it's kind of a time capsule, uh, up there, you know,
it's, um, I live closer to Stockholm,the big city and, um, yeah, time is, I've
been standing a little more still up thereand like especially a little bit more
out on this island and it's a little moreold school Which I really enjoy and the
people are so warm and open hearted andgenerous And you know, it takes you back a

(12:50):
little bit and all the houses are a littlemore classic style They're What color?
They're all red.

Everything on there is red.
It's like, if you paint your housea different color other than red,
you are going to be ostracized.
Pretty much.

Yeah.
We had a short story.
We had this mine in Sweden back in theday, a copper mine that, uh, the by
product of this mine was that they dida paint, red paint called Fålurafaj.
And it became really popular andit's a really good paint because
it withstands weather great.
And.

(13:24):
Yeah.
It's had a big breakthrough.
And since then, I think allhouses in Sweden are red.

Every once in a while, you see a house that's
going to be, um, yellow.
Yellowish color or, uh, so it lookslike you either have red or if you have
a large enough property and you havea secondary property, it's going to be
yellow or it's going to be red and yellow.
And some are yellow and red, which isreally pushing the, uh, the envelope.
Pushing the

boundaries there.
Yeah.

Yeah.
You know, that it's interestingbecause I, one of the things I want
to talk about is some sort of thesimilar similarities and differences
between culture and hunting in Canadaand British Columbia, where I'm from.
In Sweden, I was amazed at howwelcoming everybody was, how

(14:11):
similar the mentality of the huntersare and the, the camaraderie.
Um, but I was also amazed at how.
Easy it was as an outsider to be able tocome in and, um, uh, hunt legally within
the government framework and regulations.
And I mean, you're going to be over in BCin a little bit and, uh, you need to get

(14:35):
a guide if you're going to be doing anybig game hunting and that's big bucks.
So there's a, there's ahuge barrier to entry.
Um, and then, you know,
When I, when I looked at it with, so wego out, maybe I'll back up a little bit.
We did a driven hunt.
Tell me, tell me a bit about drivenhunts, because this is something
we don't really do in Canada.

(14:56):
Yeah.

It, we're pretty unique in that.
Cause in Sweden we have kind ofpretty liberal hunting laws when
it comes to the way we hunt.
Like you can't obviously hunt fromcars in Sweden and we have, there's
some, of course, a lot of laws to it.
Uh, we have a super liberal,um, way of hunting with dogs.

(15:18):
So pretty much our, like the most popularhunt here in Sweden is with dogs and
like driving, driving dogs, pushing dogs.
So what we usually do is we have,uh, a dog that is like, it's purposed
and it trained for the game we'regoing out to hunting that day.
So we were out hunting red deer.

(15:39):
And so we have a dog that onlypushes, Red deer and, uh, boar.
Um, so, you place out shooters aroundthe area where we're gonna hunt, and
then you have a couple of dogs going in.
Into this area that we're huntingand trying to awake the animal

(16:00):
and push it out to the shooters.
Great.
So that's the, like the, yeah,that's kind of how, how we do it.
And, um, So civilized, like really.
Civilized and, uh, pretty effective.
Yeah.
Goes fast.
And if there's an animal.
In the area where we're hunting, we'llmost likely get it out if it's a good dog.

(16:21):
And, uh, well, we, we got pretty lucky.
I think within 10 minutes,we had a big, uh, female,

uh, red deer.
So, okay.
Hunt's on, we're all stationed up.
We're in our areas and since you'reusing dogs, so the animals will be
bedded down through the day, typically.

You

can get up a little bit later in the day, the animals
are going to be bedded down.
Everyone gets in their positions.
They got GPS callers on the dogs.
Yeah.
The hunters are all, uh, geolocated with their, their units.
There's an app that everybody uses herecalled We Hunt, and there's a yearly
subscription, I think it's about 50 bucks.
Is it, or?

(16:59):
Something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yearly subscription, butit, it get your hunt code.
So it shows everybodyin your hunting party.
You see where you are, you see wherethe dogs are, you can follow it.
Like it's crazy.
And.
Effective, 10 minuteslater, bang, bang, bang.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We hear, uh, some, Simon saw the, uh,the red deer, took some shots and,

(17:20):
uh, uh, was successful on that one.
I think, uh, Alex helped him outthere and, uh, on the end bit.
And, um, um, then the dogs continueto do their work in case there
is more animals in the area.

Yeah.

Interesting things that I, I learned.
So if the.
Dog happens to flush out adifferent animal than what
it is that you're targeting.
Yeah.
Um, you guys don't want to harvest thatanimal, uh, because you don't want to
reward the dog and turn it into a dog thatnow hunts that a different type of animal.
You basically.

(17:56):
Broke that dog.

Yeah, exactly.
So it's super sensitive.
So if you have a dog, cause we dida couple of hunts we had, we were
hunting, um, red deer and boar, andthen we were hunting red fox and hare.
And if you have a dog that's specializedat hunting fox, Or, um, uh, hare.

(18:17):
You can't hunt roe deer, for example.
We have a lot of roe deer here in Sweden.
It's like pretty, pretty,like almost invasive.
Uh, so they're spread out everywhere.
And for hunting fox and hare,you need really fast dogs.
Uh, so from early age, westart training these dogs.
Not to go for roe deer, and soit's really important that you

(18:43):
don't shoot a roe deer for that.
Even though it's, you're allowedto shoot roe deer during that
time we're hunting fox and stuff.
We don't shoot it because itwill pretty much break the dog.
Right.
Like the training, because if it's oncerewarded for a roe deer, you can't,
it will continue chasing roe deer,and that will not be a good thing.
Like it will take up a lot of time.
So like, Oh, what isthis guy, a dog doing?

(19:03):
It's running off and chasing road here andit's following this road here for hours.
I'm just sitting waitingfor Fox, you know?
So it's.

Other differences that I saw, um, big one, right off the bat,
you guys use suppressors on your rifles.
We do.
We do.
And that totally makes sense.
I mean, the two most offensivethings from firearms are recoil.
If it's a heavier recoiling firearm,And the noise and suppressors
help mitigate both of those.
I don't get rid of it completely,but, uh, I'm usually out there.

(19:33):
I use a SWAT com, uh, electronic hearingprotection or like Peltor Tac 6s or, but
I got these things on all day long andthey're good in some respects because
they'll amplify the sounds aroundyou and, uh, bad in other respects.
Cause maybe it's not thesounds you want to hear.
Cause it's usually those higher end kindof sounds that rustles and crinkles.

(19:53):
That it amplifies, uh,hotter weather hunting.
I don't like it cause it's hot,but cold weather hunting, it's
nice to have them on, but you lose.
Um, directionality a bit,

I think so too.
And also, you know, it's, it's like alittle weird listening and you, you lose
also a little connection with nature.
I think I agree with this on like you, Iusually have them like turned up really
high and you hear the wind and it's like,I know it tires you out a little bit.
I think

I agree.
Yeah.
That's a good observation.
Uh, obviously as an audioengineer, you would, you would
notice those sort of things.
Yeah, but like it also

effective like it's good to have I use them as well.
But um, so the silencer thing actuallyjust got, uh, legal to get a silencers
without a license because before, ifyou bought a weapon and you wanted
to get a silencers for like a boltaction rifle, you had to apply for
a license that it would take Okay.

(20:48):
Eight weeks to get thesilencer license as well.
And I think it was last year or the,the year before to just open it up.
So I think you still have to like,um, do something when you buy it.
Like, yeah, I have a put in,fill in some form, right?
That you have a silencer, butthere's no licensing for it

(21:08):
anymore, which is pretty nice.

Well, I mean, it, it totally makes sense.
I remember I, I've said this before in thepodcast, but I think I was 19 years old.
Scotland, I was walking out fromInverness to Loch Ness and there's
a guy shooting on his propertyand he was using a suppressor.
And anyways, I walked up, Italked to them and I said, well,
those are illegal in Canada.

(21:31):
We can't have them.
He says, really?
I live so close to my neighbors.
I have to have them.
If I don't have them, then that's soundpollution and that would be illegal.
So, yeah.
That was a, um, a bit of an interestingeye opener, but to be able to hunt and not
have to worry about losing your hearing.
Yeah.
Because you're, you're popping around.
It's still loud, even with a.
Sure.

Like a suppressor.
It's, it's, it's, it's loud, but youknow, it's, I, I like it and it's good.
And we just got it, uh,legal for, for a month.
Uh, 22s, because before youcouldn't have it, uh, for 22s.
Really?
Yeah, you could have it for anything,everything else, but like, not for
22s, so now we can have it for 22s too.

Why do you think that

is?
I think it's, I guess, alittle too quiet, maybe?
I don't know.
You can get quiet, yeah.
Yeah, it's, I don't know, it's, it'snice because then I, I can use it in
my, because I have neighbors aroundhere, even though I'm a little remote.
Right.
That's pretty good.
I can use it in my backyard in a littleforest and practice shoot and stuff.

Yeah.
So the speed of sounds are in 1,100 feet per second, depending on
humidity and altitude and a few otherthings, but average around there.
And if you can keep the speed of soundon that 22 below that, it's just, all
you hear is click, click, click, click.
And as it goes, it's just the, uh,hammer falling or firing pin hitting.

(22:48):
If it goes above it, um, andyou point the, uh, let's say
the rifle into the ground.
You can go click, click, click into theground and then point it down range and
allow it to break that sound barrier.
It almost sounds the same asa, uh, at least out of a rifle.

Yeah.

Pistols, of course, are going to have a lot of report
with a shorter barrel, but, uh,yeah, those 22s can get real quiet.
9mm can get pretty quiet too.

Okay.
Yeah.

Uh, I've done a little, little bit of playing with suppressors
and in the past we're licensed tomanufacture and, um, develop and, and,
um, Do a few other things with, withthem and what we call prohibited weapons
and prohibited devices in Canada.
Interesting.
But it never, it never made senseto me, the whole hunting aspect,

(23:36):
not being allowed to use somethingthat's going to be, I don't know,
everywhere else, occupational healthand safety would say, like wear a hard
hat, put eye protection on, right?
Like you protect those ears.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Maybe one day.
I think, I think it might be coming.
I don't know.
I don't know.
It's, uh.

(23:56):
I didn't

see this coming in Sweden that will be licensed for you either.
So, um, that was a prettynice surprise actually.
Yeah.
To be fighting for thatthough, for a while.
So it's nice that it finally.
Do you guys have like an NRA of Sweden?
Yeah, I'm, I'm not sure about that,but I guess there's some kind of a,
we have like the hunters association.

(24:19):
Okay.
Right.
That's doing that.
It's just working withthe government a lot.

What the other thing I thought was interesting was.
Uh, you guys get allotmentsof animals for different,

is

it for your group?

You set up a hunting group?
It is actually for thearea you're hunting.
So up where we were hunting, theyget, they got five, I think red deers.
Um, so we're hunting where you'reallowed to hunt with dogs from
early September to February.
Uh, that's the only time we canrelease a dog in the, in the forest.

(24:53):
Cause, or the other time, you know,you have to respect the animal.
I like the repopulation and, yeah.
Sure.
So, um.
But during that time, I think it'sdepending on the size of the land you
get assigned a couple of mooses, acouple of red deers, a lot of roe deers
you can shoot and for boars becauseboars have been coming more north.

(25:17):
We had a lot of them downsouth, but now they've reached
the place we hunted as well.
They were not therefour or five years ago.
Uh, snowboards up there.
Really?
Yeah.
And so now they've changed soyou can hunt them all year round.
But yes.
And day and night too, right?
Day and night too.
And also you can have likethermal and you can, you can

(25:38):
shoot them where you feed them.
So you can have a feeding station andyou can feed them, you can have a light
there and so you can have all these.
You can't hunt them from cars, uh,but like, besides that, like, pretty
much any way you want to hunt them.
And their meat.
I've never had wild boar meat.

It's really good.

Yeah, I've heard that.
It's like a game, um, uh,it's, it's, it's a good flavor.
Yeah, I like it.

Yeah, when I was in Finland, we trained.
Big part of traveling for meand experiencing a culture
is experiencing the food.
Yeah.
And so having some traditionalfood and, and, uh, and of course
you have to have the reindeer,which we call caribou and, uh Oh

yeah.

Um, I mean it fantastic.
And also had they called itGray Bear, but I looked it up.
It looks like it's a, um,it looks like a brown bear.
Okay.
Basically a, like a grizzly bear.
Oh, wow.
I didn't know about that one.
Yeah.
So.
They serve that game meat in restaurants.
And in Canada, well, most ofthe provinces, that's illegal.

(26:41):
I think, I think Quebec, I was talking to,uh, to a chef about this before who hunts
and he's got a, uh, his Instagram feed.
He's the hunter chef and he's gotsome, A book out and he's got another
one coming out too, but there's,I think it was Quebec and maybe I
think it was, uh, uh, Newfoundland.

(27:02):
I think where there are certaintimes allowed to serve game meat.

Oh, aside from that, can't do it.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, we, we do, uh, we serve a lot ofgame meat and you can also like sell your.
You are, you are, you'reallowed to sell your game.
The problem with boar, 'cause like wehad a lot of boars got super popular over
the years and they can have this, um,bacteria, I don't remember the name of it.

(27:27):
Trinos or Yeah, or Trino.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
TCH in Swedish.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so you have to send it to thelab first, so you get like a little
piece of the bar and send it away.
It, and it's got it fine.
But there's some ca areaswhere it's more and actually.
We have a little problem with boarsince the Chernobyl nuclear accident.

Oh, okay.

So They glow now?
They glow now.
No, but since they're eating likemushrooms and like stuff, and we had
like a lot of rain of, um, nuclearwaste after Chernobyl here in Sweden.
So we still, for a while, we liketested, I don't know if we tested boar
for nuclear or Like radiation and stuff.

(28:13):
Cause like we couldn't pick mushrooms.
We couldn't fish for alot of years after that.
For all of Sweden?
Especially for the North East part ofSweden, where it's closer to, to the
accident, cause it was like raining.
A couple of days after that, and theplaces where it was raining, we got a
lot of nuclear waste in the ground and,you know, it sticks around a long time.

(28:35):
No kidding.
So, uh, it's, it's been affectingthe bores a little bit as well.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wouldn't

have thought of that.
Yeah.
That's going back quitesome time, but it's, um.
Yeah.
It's like in the 80s sometimes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What was the other thingthat kind of stuck out?
Uh, so we will get a, a tag.
We get our hunting license andthen once we have our license,
they say, what do you want to hunt?
Oh, I want to hunt moose orI want to hunt a whitetail.
And so you go buy your tags, harvestan animal, it's confirmed, it's down,

(29:06):
you're there, you notch your tag oryou cut it out the day, the location.
And that's just one of the ways thatthey're able to track the animals.
Say that you're a lawfulhunter, you're not a poacher.
So you've got your animal, you'vegot, uh, your tag notched and the
conservation officer happens to pullyou over or stop you to talk to you,

(29:27):
you show them your paperwork and say,Hey, proper animal, close my paperwork.
So it's not like I'm going to be going outand getting more, I'm not going to sneak
this thing home real quick and then runout and say, I've got a clean tag, right?
Here, you guys don't have that.
In fact, you don't even reallyhave conservation officers
out there pulling people

over.
No, I think that's interesting.
Cause like, it feels like you guys, youhave a lot of responsibility and, uh,
that responsibility in Sweden is usuallyput to, I think, One person, the hunting
leader, so for example, I'm in a huntingteam close to Stockholm and the hunter

(30:04):
leader, the leader of the, of the team,he has to report to, to the government
and he's the guy keeping track on howmany animals, but there's no officers out
there checking out and like making sureeverything is, so he's just responsible.
So, okay, we get to shoot 10 roedeers and then he keeps track of it.
And then he fills in, and we can seelike if it's, it's usually bigger

(30:28):
areas, so we have a couple of huntingteams around there, and for example
we can shoot five moose, and um,if the, the, the hunting team Next
us to us shoots those five moves.
We can't do it.
So it's a little bit.
We have to beat them to it

Well, it makes sense from a conservation standpoint,
but you know exactly what'scoming out of a certain area

yeah, it's pretty easy to keep track of the population and It knows
how much we'll get for next year and.
But it's all also kindof honor system too.
It's a lot of the honor system.
Yeah.
Cause like they fill in, they had tofill in the right amount and yeah.
Yeah.
If they wanted to, they could totally

lie and get away with it.
Absolutely.
But it doesn't seem to really.
be a thing that you guys do here.
You don't have to worry aboutpeople like people will break
the rules wherever you go.
Of course.
Yeah.
There's always

going to be

vultures.
Yeah.
But, but there's a, sort of a culturehere in Sweden and I notice it.
In the hunting parties and howeveryone's working together.
There's a hive mind cultureand I don't know a better way
to put it than, than that.
And, uh, we're like North America.
We seem to be a culture that,uh, especially like in America,

(31:45):
um, a culture of individuals.

Yeah.

Right.
Everyone's it's the I and theme and how do I stand out?
But that is really not prevalent in whatI've seen in my stay so far in Sweden.
Everyone had their own little tasks.
They got their own little roles.
Everyone just filled in and.
They're helping out.

It's a lot of teamwork.
I think it's the, likethe way also we hunt.
So we have to, uh, worktogether super hard.
And I think it goes back so manygenerations that like these people
learned from their dad, it learns fromtheir dad and the same kind of hunting
with dogs, yeah, we get more technologynow, back in the day you release a dog
and maybe same day the dog will be back,you know, the dog could be back one

(32:28):
week later, you don't know, but now wecan keep track of that, but it's still
kind of the same hunting, I think.
So, um, everyone has to have theirtask, you have these people with dogs,
people staying there and we all helpout, pull out the animal from the
forest and like, it's just, um, it's,it's a nice teamwork, and everyone has

(32:48):
their own little task in, in the game.
No way.

Then we go back and grab the animal at the barn, hot dogs, and,
and, uh, uh, what was that one called?
Uh, Moramist?

Oh, yeah.
How about some, like,local sodas and stuff?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's a lot about that.
You know, we have, uh, usually, whenwe do the Moose Hunt here in Sweden,
everyone takes a week off work.
And, you know, it'sbeen that for all years.
So the kids in school is like, Oh no,my dad's on a moose hunt this year.
So I had to be home, you know, it'sbeen like part of the culture so long.

(33:23):
So they, we get assigned the amountof moose we can shoot for the area.
And then we all take aweek off and we go out.
And we hunt, uh, and just stay ina small little cabin or camping or
whatnot, you know, in this area.
And just full focus onthe hunt for, uh, a week.
And it's also with dogs.

(33:43):
So we have a, a moose dogs thatwe call them and just go for it.

And it's so effective.
I mean, when I was coming up fromthe, uh, Norma factory and Jonas, he
says, he's going out hunting in these.
I'm going to have to break the curse.
He hasn't got an animal himselfin a couple of years now.
And anyways, he's like, send pictures.
If you get something, yougot to send a picture.
So anyways, with the, um,the red deer down, picture of

(34:10):
the heart goes over to him.
And he's like, Oh, great delicacy.
And he doesn't say anything else.
I'm like, okay, am I, maybe, maybe they'renot getting anything in their area.
And I said, well, how are you doing?
And he says, Oh, wehad to stop on day one.
We got four.
And, uh, but he's like, I didn't getanything, but our hunting party did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like that's unheard of, really, in, inBC to go out in one day, your hunting

(34:35):
party has got their four animals andokay, we'll just stop and come back.
Yeah.
Um, so the, the

dogs are pretty darn effective.
It is.
So we're, when we're out here inStockholm, the, the ground, like
the area we hunt are way smaller.
But it's a lot more animals in a smallerarea down here than compared to, we
were up there in Norfolk, Sweden.
So I think we're hunting down hereon, um, 1500 acres or something and

(35:05):
up there it's, uh, 200, 000 acresor like, it's, it's, it's like not
around like hundreds, like so, so muchland, you know, and, um, We can go out
and we can easily have four animals.
Like we go out on a Saturday andwe have four animals by lunch.

And then went out and did a, uh, did a fox hunt.
Yeah.
That was pretty cool.
What I thought was the coolest, andI don't know, maybe it's just me, but
like, I've never done a fox hunt before.
I thought it was cool that I'm standingon top of these boulders and this rock
pile that's like Viking times set up.

(35:47):
And there's a Frisbee golf right, rightbeside me and dogs are doing their thing.
It's like, when you talk aboutthe history in, in that area, um,
you're going back hundreds andhundreds and you're going way back.

Yeah.
So that area has like a lot Vikinggraves and, and, and stuff like that.
And you just stand onthis old piles of stone.
There's like an old grave and there'slike a Frisbee golf there and then
we have a dog and we're standingthere with a shotgun and there's
like houses around us and I don'tknow, it's, it's so, I like it.
Yeah.
It's an interesting areato hunt in, I think.

Yeah.
So I guess that covers a few of thedifferences and, and coming into it,
like obviously not everyone's going tobe coming over into Sweden and being able
to have an experience like that, because.
Uh, you can't just show up andstart expecting to be able to hunt.
I'm really grateful for you andfor everybody there, the whole team

(36:45):
for, uh, taking us in and showing meand my wife how you guys do things.
It was, it was so cool.
To

have you guys, it was a lot of fun.
And yeah, you did,

you did great.
Well, I appreciate that.
Looking forward to when you'reover in BC, cause that'll be cool.
We'll, uh.
Even though it's just going to be fora small game and migratory so fun.
Yeah, I'm excited.
I'm excited So tell me about howdo how does a guy from Sweden
get into the country music scene?
I forget

as I mentioned before it's always been a lot
of music around my family.
Yeah, and My dad's playing guitar and evenno one has really done it professionally,
but it's been My dad lived in Nashville,uh, he moved there with his brother in the
70s, and, like, saw Johnny Cash, and hewent to college there, um, he was born in

(37:38):
the 50s, my dad, and, uh, came back, and,like, filled with this musical experience.
So him and his brother has always beendoing music and a lot of blues, a lot of
folk, Americana stuff, like a lot of BobDylan and also, and also the blues stuff.

(38:00):
So I think I got that pretty early on,uh, doing music with the, like I got the
old school and, and as soon as I startedplaying guitar, I think it was, yeah.
15 or 14, something like that.
It just took off for me.
It was like, okay, this is,this is what I gotta do.
Yeah.
You know, it's like I quittrombone and start playing guitar.

Put the trombone down, son.
Let's get you an instrument that.
I

haven't picked it up since.

I love it.
Yeah.
Come in here, your recordingstudio is all decked out.
And you got Marty Robbinsgoing on the, um, on the vinyl.
And I love Marty Robbins, grewup listening to his stuff.
I always loved the Ballad of the Alamocause they had Colonel Travis in that one.
And as a kid, that was,that was pretty cool to me.
Awesome artist.
Yeah, totally.

(38:46):
But, um, and so you wentdown to Nashville yourself.

Yeah, I did um, like I always want to go there.
Yeah.
Heart of country music.
So, uh, I was Visiting a friend whowas, my cousin actually went to Harvard.
Okay.
He got a scholarship and wentto Harvard and I went to Boston.
I was like, oh, I got it.
Yeah I have a little more time off.
So I might just do Nashville now.

(39:11):
So I flew down to Nashville I thinkI spent two weeks in Nashville out
seeing music every night and justlike consuming this Transcribed
Amazing musical atmosphere.
Yeah, sir.
For everyone who's been in Nashville.
It's now it's called Nash Vegas.
It's a lot of A lot of music a lot ofpartying and just like a fun time Yeah,

(39:36):
it's a really cool city and I was therejust pre corona and I remember I was
thinking, because I've been doing musicand production for a long time and
doing some pop music and it's a littlecompetitive, the pop scene, I think, I
came down there and I was a little curiouson how, because it's so many musicians

(39:56):
in Nashville, so many people do music andlike, like, how's the competition here?
Aren't you like, like,elbowing your way through?
Right.
How does it work here?
You know, and I was going with thisguy in an Uber who was a drummer.
On broadway.
Yeah, and he's like, no, no, thevibe here is like you want because

(40:23):
country is still a bit of anunderdog compared to pop music.
Sure.
So you want the other people to succeed.
You don't want the othermusicians to succeed.
So we really have this, uh,Feeling of like togetherness.
Mm.
And so he said, if you only have threethings, like you have to know your
stuff, you have to have your own stuff.

(40:43):
And you have to be a nice guy to be with.
Mm.
They have to like you.
Yeah.
If you, if you do all those three,you, you will have a wonderful time
and you will like, it will, peoplewill wanna help you and support you.

So I read, and you said that in an article before,
cause you ended up winning an award.
I forget, usually I've got my phone torefer to these things, but we're using
phones to, uh, to record this one.
But you, uh, had won an up andcoming, um, country music star
award, or there's something elsethat you had won, but I remember
reading about the competition thing.

(41:18):
And I, that struck a chord withme because we see that too.
And.
In the gun community, inthe outdoors community.
Yeah.
Um, and who was it that said,uh, people at the bottom compete,
people at the top collaborate.

Yeah.

And that always stuck with me.
Yeah.
Because if you, if you want to havethe biggest tower around, There's
a couple of ways you can do that.
You can build the biggest tower, whichtakes a lot of time, energy, and work.
And you're going to be working withpeople who know how to build towers
and do the plumbing and do theelectrical and they're, they're going

(41:56):
to be employed and you're all workingtogether as a team and everyone can
then turn around and look at, peoplecan drive by years later and say, show
their kids, see that tower over there.
I helped build that.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or you can tear everyone else'stower down and then you've
got the big, biggest tower.
So often I find that in these areas witha low barrier to entry industry and high

(42:21):
competitive levels, people's competitivenature will get ahead of them and they'll
start tearing down other people's towersto try and make theirs look bigger.

Yeah.

Is that what you're finding

in other areas a little bit, you know, music is it's
a hard business in a lot of waysYou know, it's it's subjective.
So like what do you like it or not?
It's like always up to the personConsuming it so it's always hard to
compete in music and like you see peoplesomething blowing up on tick tock Oh,
yeah, it gets super popular and it's likeit's easy to get like a little jealous

(42:59):
and like I've been doing You Music fora long time and you don't you want to
be heard and stuff But I think it's soimportant to keep reminding yourself that
like everyone you're doing your thingMmm, like I think that like comparing
Yourself to others success is like startof a downfall, you know You have to

(43:23):
you have to like feel good about yourthing like what you do and then just
keep Reminding yourself that like well,I'm doing my thing and if people enjoy
My thing they can they will continuewith my journey now build organic Fans

(43:44):
or if you have a business or whatever.
So just like keep being true.
I think it's the key and justkeep like Reminding yourself
that you're doing your thing.
Yeah, and you don't compete withother stuff Really like you compete
in some ways, you know, you want soyou don't want to make money of it
But like if consistency and doingyour own thing, I think it's the key

(44:07):
and you will succeed with anything

If they say comparison is the thief of joy,

that's the word that I was looking for.
Yeah.
Cause I remember when I was inNashville, I, I had a friend there.
He was guitarist for TracyLawrence at the time.
Swedish guy, great guitarist.
Yeah.
Um, we went to see the time jumpers.
With Vince Gill.
I was playing with them at the time andhe knew Vince Gill a little bit So after

(44:34):
the show Vince Gill was there and hewas like taking like rolling his cables
putting back his pedal board and andWe went up and we talked to him super
nice guy and I was thanking him for theshow and like telling him like what a
good inspiration, well a big inspirationIt's been to me and he was like, oh so

(44:56):
nice So tell me about your music and hewas just like Keep asking me questions,
and I was like, ah, ah, ah, nobody.
Like, you're a guy, you'replaying with the Eagles.
You have like, 40 Grammys, and you'relike, selling out Ryman Auditorium the day
after, and here you go, rolling cables andwanting to know everything about my music.
Mm hmm.
And, and I thought I wasso inspiring at that level.

(45:17):
And just, as you said, like the toptier, like they're collaborating
and he was just interested orgenuinely interested in a nice guy.

Yeah, because that keeps you fired when you see other people doing well
and you're able to experience that withthem or experience that same kind of joy.
Or if you're even able to help contributejust a little bit to their success path.
If it's, well, I know a person, theymight be a good contact for you.
I'll introduce you.
Right.

(45:46):
It's amazing.
Those little things that happen.
It's not that person to me, theconnection or the, the reference, they,
they can't take any level of creditfor your success, but they can feel.
The same excitement and, um, that,that passion and what it is you
do, I think when people startreally getting hypercompetitive,
it kills the passion for it.

(46:08):
So fast, so fast.
It's, if you make money, yourprimary motivator, you're always
going to be behind the money.
I think so too.
If you make fame, your primary motivator,you're always going to be behind the fame.
You're always going to be chasing it.
Just like if you make happiness, yourprimary motivator, I want to be happy.

(46:29):
You're never going to be happy.
No, you're, you're always going topresuppose the fact that you're not
happy and you're working towardstrying to be happy when all these
happy moments are happening to youand you're still looking ahead and
saying, when's this going to happen?
When am I going to be happy?
Um, I think that same thing goes for,I know in my, it goes for everything.

Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not music.
It's like running a business or,or, or whatever, you know, it
goes to get in everything you do.

Yeah.
I, I mean, uh, for me in business, mybiggest joy is the creation part of it.
Yeah.
Um, sustaining certain things.
My A DHD kicks in and I,I love doing the business.
Yeah.
But actually creating differentparts of it is we're really fuels me.
And when I see other people andthey're building business, I

(47:20):
get fueled and excited for them.
And I'll say, look, you can tell meto shut up whenever, but I've got
1,001 ideas and the different things.
I'll keep spewing it outuntil you say stop, right?
And it looks like, to me anyways,that was the experience that you
had over in Nashville, that theseother artists are like, Excited
for you, genuinely excited for you.
They want to see you succeed.

Yeah.
And I thought I was so inspiring, youknow, being there and, and, uh, loving
country music since I was a kid growingup with it and being there and meeting
these like biggest stars, uh, and likefeel the warmth and the community.
I don't know, it was really inspiring.
So I've been working behindthe scenes a lot before.

(48:04):
I've been as a producer and also beenout playing music as well, but not
Like putting out my own music, really.
You know, you're always like,I'm going to do it one day.
I'll, I'll start releasing my own stuff.
It's like, I've been writingsongs for one day, right?
One day.
And then COVID came and I was like,fuel up with this Nashville trip.

(48:27):
I was like, well, youknow, this day is today.
That was a push COVID.
It was a little bit, you know I lost acouple like jobs and like the clients and
you couldn't go out playing So I was doinglike cover shows and stuff as a front man.
It was a lot of fun So I get like Ihad all the experience of being on
stage all the time and playing forpeople So I was like, all right,
I'll do it So I wrote my firstsingle, and, uh, the rest is history.

So does that fuel you, like, when you're out there on
stage, do you love being the starof, center of attention, out in the
crowds, dealing with everyone, ordoes that feel kind of, like, surreal?
Do you put on a differentsort of, a persona?

Um, no, not really.
I think that's with the, withthe experience I've got playing
like corporate parties and, andweddings and all those stuff before.
So when I was doing my own thing, Iwas just like, I'm just going to be
as, you know, real as I can, you know?

(49:29):
And I was thought that.
It's the funniest things to watch.
Like, if I'm playing a venue,I don't like to prepare stuff.
I go out and I'm like looking out andlike I'm seeing someone with a funny
hat and I'll say something or like Ijust like trying to take in the moment.
I think that's the best way of doing it.

(49:50):
Like if you're having apresentation or something.
Like, you learn, you read it, you practiceso much, you go out and you think about
these things and you're not present there.
Like, it's good to know, you haveto know all this, so you, I know the
songs and I know what, like, works.
That's a good point.
But you go, you go out, youjust go out and you observe.
You take in the room, like, whatare, what are the people here?

(50:11):
What do they want?
What are they thinking about?
What is like, what are their expectations?
And then you work from there and you justbeing calm and and then that I think is
the best shows because then if I'm calmthe audience will be calm and then they
will be, be, um, able to take in my music.

(50:31):
Right.
Like the worst thing is like yousee this artist that's super nervous
and like, and you feel nervouslike, oh, this is, this is crazy.
This is not feeling very good, andyou think about that, you don't
think about the music, and you justwant this guy to be calm and feel
good about being on stage, you know?
But if you see this relaxed personon stage, just like taking in the
room, joking a little bit, somethinghappening, someone, Walks in and

(50:55):
someone screams something andyou just make a joke out of that.
Like, I think that, that's, Ithink that's, um, also a good way
of thinking of being on stage.
For me, it's not so much about beingthe center of attention, like, fueled
by this, but I guess fueled by themoment of just playing my songs.

(51:16):
I think that's like, I do, and I love, Ilove I think that's the most joy I get is
when we play together a song and I notice,I feel like, oh, this is, this is good.
Sounds good.
I like this.
And like the whole band, I feel what thisguy is playing and everyone, you know,
works like this together and the audienceis calm taking it in and you're doing

(51:40):
something with everyone in the room.
So everyone is just feeling this.
Feeling of joy and the musicand the flow state in, in a way.
Yeah.
So I think that that is the, thatis what drives my music passion and
like wanting me to keep doing this.
I think

that is cool in the intelligence community and the
security sectors, uh, they'll referto that as establishing a baseline.
Yeah.
They'll go in, they'll be the gray man.
They'll look around and they'llsee how everything else out is, uh,
is acting and then they'll find,okay, how do we work together?
Yeah.
And then the intelligencecommunity, it'll be like, how do I.

(52:19):
How do I, um, use this feeling and tobe able to propel the community and
everybody else to where I want it to be.
Right.
Yeah.
And you know, when I'm, whenI teach, I do the same thing.
Everyone comes in, I'll introducemyself to everybody as they come
in and hey, how are you doing?
Why are you taking this course?
What's right.
And I, and I'm, what I'm doing isI'm trying to get as much information

(52:42):
as I can on every single person.
Right.
And get a quick read, like, okay,where's their ability level?
Where's their passion?
What's their interest?
What are they looking at?
Then, um, uh, you know, when I'mtraining new instructors, I say, you
know, one of the things that I findreally helpful for me is get the class
to introduce themselves one at a time.

(53:02):
You kind of go around, right?
So all of a sudden.
Like as, as a performer, you takethat spotlight that's shining on you
and you turn it around and you'renow shining it on the audience.
Right.
And all of that pressure of youhaving to perform is kind of off the
audience or the class feels a bitof that pressure and then they feel
good afterwards once and everyonestarts to kind of mingle together.

(53:24):
Right.
And.
So I found for me, that's a,uh, establishing that baseline,
introducing, seeing where everybody'sat and being able to turn that
spotlight around is a big part.
And all of a sudden, instead ofpeople sitting there with their
arms crossed and their legs crossedand they're sitting back in their
chairs, like, okay, entertain me.
Right.
Like, what are you going to do?
Right.

Yeah.
That's the worst.
Like, yeah.
To perform for a person likethat, it's, it's terrible.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, you have to like, getunder the skin on that person.
That's right.
Yeah.
Push them.
Yeah, and I think that'sso important as a teacher.
And, uh, I think myself, becauseI grew up, both my parents, Uh, I
retired now, but they're both teachers.

(54:04):
Right.
I've been a teacher for 40 years.
And I, and I remember when I was akid, like, I'll never be a teacher.
And the first job I got, Iguess, was I got to be a teacher.
Ha ha ha ha.
And I got to work with kidsand, and, and do that thing.
And I think, like, as a teacher, Ithink you have to do the same thing.
You have to, like, if someone is sittinghere and like, okay, entertainment, right.

(54:28):
People want to take it,like, then you're like,
what does this person need?
What, what's, what's the deal?
You know, you have to think about that.
And you have to think that with anaudience, if you're teaching or having
a course or whatever, you know, youhave to solve that first before you can.

I see similarities because a lot of, uh, teachers they'll get up
and they'll be like, I'm really smart,I know my stuff, I'm going to show you
how smart I am, and I know you're not assmart as me, but we'll get you kind of,
uh, and I'll, I'll, you know, strokesmy ego a little bit, and, and it's
important to have ego, you should havesome sort of personal pride, and, but,

(55:05):
um, As a teacher, I put the class first.
My job is to get themfrom point A to point B.
How do I get them from here to a pointwhere they're comfortable, confident,
uh, proficient and safe and whateverit is that they're going to be doing.
And I'll treat the entire class as if it'sone individual, essentially with a bunch
of personalities and questions and, andhow do I steer it from point A to point B?

(55:27):
I got to wonder.
If I had just like a modicum of musicaltalent, which I don't, I can't sing.
I can't dance.
I can't play any musical instruments,but if I already get up and perform, if I
already use that sort of, uh, mentality,how do I get the audience from where we
are here, like they showed up and they'reexpecting to be entertained to, man, they

(55:49):
just had a fantastic time and they vibedwith us and we're all in the flow state.
It's probably kind ofa similar, would it be?

It is like, I think that's how you do it.
You go in and you just feel it and thenyou have to take from it from there
because it's all going to be different.
Like a joke I did the last show.
It won't work today, you know, like, youknow, I'll, I'll, I'll do like a silly
remark and like one of the guy in the bandhas a new shirt, like, yeah, like it was

(56:17):
so fun on the other day, like, uh, thisguy had this, the yellow cowboy shirt and
with like fun patterns, I don't do no jokeabout that and give people laugh a little
bit and then you just feeling the roomand Someone is screaming something, and
you just like, like, I don't know the wordin English, but de weaponize, like, make

(56:38):
people put down their guard a little bit,you know, you know, and, and then Takes
time sometimes, like, you go out, and youdo a couple songs, you still feel like,
alright, they're not really connectingwith me here, and you, like, you work your
way through the set, and like, halfway in,you can feel like, okay, they're, they're
kind of starting to be included now, andthen you're like, at the end, they're

(56:59):
like, You know, like, really connectedwith you and they're singing along and
you like you have their attention and likeyou're like okay i'm going to keep doing
like some sing alongs here and you bringit down bring the song down you extend the
sing alongs a little bit because you'relike okay they seem to like this and
that's what they want yeah and we do thatand then we move on and it's like okay
this is too slow let's change Speed it up.
Yeah, and I'm fortunate to have a like agreat um, a really good band So they're

(57:25):
like they always joke with me cuz likewe never know what's gonna come when
we're playing with you Robin We neverknow so we have to be on our toes all
the time for like, okay, let's redo thischorus Let's like extend this thing.
Let's do another solo on the verse.
Let's do this.
So I think, um,

That's the audio engineering in you.
You can hear it, you can seeit, you can visualize it.

A little bit, but I think also, it's a lot actually from my mom.
She was like a small, uh, like ayoung kids teacher, like, first
grade to third grade, fourthgrade or something like that.
And she always said that, like, she walkedinto the classroom and she, like, She's
been doing it for a lot of years, but shewouldn't plan that much and she would just

(58:05):
like feel what's what's the kids vibe andshe was like winging it and like trying
to make up this fun games with them tomake them learn and and She will always
be very creative and I think it's like thecreative thing being a teacher or being
a performer like you work at a companyand It's, it's, it's so important to be a

(58:26):
little creative, and, you know, as I said,with the band, like, they know, like,
okay, he's, I'm, I'm doing some gesture,and they know, they know exactly that,
okay, we're gonna break the song, and,and we're gonna switch it over to this.
And to be able to not like, okay, I'mdoing the song the way I've been doing it
every time and then it stopped and then itworks probably, but it's so much more fun.

(58:49):
It's like everyone's singingalong in this chorus.
I will do it again.
You know?

Well, what have been some, some of the largest challenges that you've
had to face in your music career so far?
And where do you see the future going with

this?
Oh, that's a good question.
The challenge is obviouslymaking a living out of music.
It's always hard and you know, people,it's different with music because
if I get someone to come here andpaint my house and I will say I'll
get an estimate like, Oh, this is somuch money for painting the house.

(59:24):
If someone asked me to come and playat their bar, and they were like, Oh,
yeah, you get free food, and you gottaentertain the crowd for two hours.
And I was like, okay, so I gotta Prepare aset list, I go to pack the van, I have to
go there, set it all up, rehearse with theboys, I gotta figure everything out, bring
all the stuff, put it up, play, entertain,take it all down, drive back home.

(59:49):
It's like two days, one,one, two days of work.

But you got exposure, look at this, you got free food, right?
Yeah, like, and like,

if someone comes to paint my house, and like, uh, and
I'll, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll put upa sign that you're painting my house.
I'll post on Instagram, we'relike, oh, whatever, you know,
it doesn't work like that.
Like, I think sometimes, you know,people view music as like, Oh,
it's a hobby, it's something fun.
And it is something fun and ahobby for a lot of people, but
you, I think that it's always achallenge to being able to get paid.

Travis Bader (01:00:20):
Yeah.
It's funny.
Is it try trying to find that the, uh, thewhole grasshopper and ant mentality when
grasshoppers playing the music andthe ants working away, but the ant.
needs music.
It needs something to feedits soul as well too, right?

Robin Winther (01:00:38):
Yeah, it's important, you know, everyone loves music in a
way, in their own way, and I thinkit has a impact on the heart and
soul and, and it does good stuff.
For the society, I think music isimportant and, uh, What about AI?
Is

that a scary thing for a musician?

I think it's, it's, it's still, um, yeah, in a way, but also I
think you have to view, view AI as a tool.
We were talking about this yesterdaya little bit on, uh, how AI is using
It's using a music that's been alreadybeen done and just like inversions

(01:01:16):
of it in a way So I think it's welike the human Factor a lot in music.
That's why we'll use old microphonesor old equipment and like we like when
it's sound Gritty and you know, it'sI think it's the human touch that that
is required So I'm not super concernedwith AI, but, but obviously, like, you

(01:01:39):
can do, it helps out a lot, editing,and in every, every aspect of, like,
the world now, AI is mind blowing, andwe'll see where, we'll see where it
ends up, but, like, it's definitelygoing to replace some parts of it.
Or, and create new ones, so.

From watching how you put together the new song for the
Silvercore podcast here, I have a hardtime thinking that AI could ever do that.
It can get maybe broad brush strokesof, of certain things, but it can't
take into that heart and soul Of everydifferent aspect that you put in there.

(01:02:17):
When you're talking about the old,the old musical instruments you're
using, the one, what's that one called?
That, uh,

Dobro.
Dobro.
There he is.

Okay.
It's, it's got scotch tape overtop of the, uh, hole in it.
It's a

rough instrument.

Right.
It's been hanging on the wall there.
Yeah.
And, um, but it provided a soundthat you couldn't find anywhere else.

No.

And it wasn't like, it's a normal instrument that you're using for.
Recording with it's it's a wall hanger.
It's a

wall piece.
Yeah, it's just like It looks good.
And yeah, and I think that's with AI.
It's when we're creating musicIt's so many billions like a lot
of micro decisions like and everydecisions when making music is based
on feel So this does feel good.
No, it's not feel good.

(01:03:08):
Then you move on Like you work so muchwith, with feelings on how you hear it
and perceive it, and I think that's hardfor an AI to, like, to code that thing.

Yeah, and to make that feeling come through.
Like if you're going to be sittingdown with a whole crowd of people and
getting them into, You can technicallyplay something perfectly and that
doesn't necessarily mean that you'regonna have people engage with it

No, like I saw this video and someone was auto tuning
the crap out of Don't stop believing.
That was the old hit and So they madeall the notes perfect and like super
straight like singing perfectly.
Mm hmm And it just killed the vibe.

(01:03:52):
I don't know.
It's not a good song anymore.
So it's like perfection Perfection It'snot always the way when it comes to music.
So you want the little bit of, Whoa,it's not like, it's a little sharp and
it's a little like low on that note.
And it's just like create this like

feeling, friction.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
I always go back to, uh,my story about Johnny.
Okay.
Johnny, the programmer.
A friend of mine is like,Trav, I got this programmer.
You're looking to have this newthing built up for a website
and he'll do it for you.
He's brilliant.
Really great guy and, um, affordableand Johnny comes in, he came into the

(01:04:31):
office and so I'll set you up at a table.
He's like, no, no, no.
I just need a chair.
What?
You don't need a table?
No, no.
I'll just put the laptopon my lap and I'll, okay.
He starts at, uh, nineo'clock in the morning.

He gets there a https (01:04:42):
otter.
ai
Laptop's open, he starts working and noon,laptop closes, napkin goes on his lap.
He starts eating his food, right?
And noon's over, laptop's open, and he'sworking until five o'clock, whatever it
was that he, and he's like, I'll come inand you can see the hours I'm working.

(01:05:05):
So you'll pay me for the hours.
I'm like, okay, sure.
I guess this is your process.
He's like, tell me what you want.
Told him exactly what I want.
And he made me a website,exactly how I asked for it.
And it absolutely sucked.
And the reason why it sucked wasbecause I'm not a programmer.
And, and it was exactlyhow I had asked for it.

(01:05:28):
And I didn't know enoughto ask the right questions.
And I didn't know to, uh, uh, that whatI was asking was technically not sound,
but he's like, yeah, I can build it.
Yeah, I'll do it for you.
Not a problem.
Right.
I think that maybe AI will bea little bit like Johnny, at
least that's how it is now.
Yeah.
I can build something for you, butit's not giving that feedback of,

(01:05:49):
you know, um, what you're askingfor is kind of stupid, right.
Which is what he shouldhave, he should have told me.
And in your culture, Ithink it's a lot more.
Normal for people to
say things straight.
Yeah.
Not sugarcoat it, not pat around it.
Yeah.

The sweets are pretty, we're pretty straightforward.
Like, uh, it might come outlike a impolite sometimes.
We we're very much Yes.
No, I don't like it.
I like it.
Da da da.
. Travis Bader: Yeah.
Well, I like that.

Does this dress make me look fat?

Yes.
I

like

the other dress better.
Okay.

Thanks.

Right.
But as we said, we're alsopretty like, we're a little
scared of confrontation as well.
So we're straight, but we're alittle scared of confrontation.
How does that work?
I don't know.
It's, it's, that's aweird anomaly, isn't it?
It is a little weird, but youknow, I guess you guys have to come

here and hive mind comes in too, right?
Yeah.
It's like, I want to make sure, yeah, I'llbe straight, but, Is everybody else happy?
Are we all on the same page?
Yeah.
So we always add like

after sentence, like, or , what's your word?
Elsa?
Uh, LER.
Ler.
So I like this L Yeah.
I like, I like this.
Or, yeah.

Yeah.
Meaning, or do you want toadd something else to it?
Yeah.
Or should we, or do you think?
Or do I really like it?
Or, or No?
Yeah.

Like keep it open er,

yeah.

Er, interesting.

Yeah.
Is there anything that we haven't talkedabout that we should be talking about?
The song?
Have we talked about the song?
Yeah, that I'm making a new song?
You did a phenomenal job on this new song.
so much.
Holy crow.
So I, I am so stoked by it.
Uh, yeah, you, you send this over.
You're like, not a problem.
I'll make you a new song.
Yeah, this is great.

(01:07:27):
And you send over this clip and you'relike, Uh, any feedback, any revisions?
And I, and I listened to it andit was just like the first part.

Yeah, it was just like an intro.
So I was doing it down here andyou got me a couple of references.
Then like you gave me so much freedom andI was, it was like, okay, write a song.
And I was like, Oh, I'll do it.
And then I got like a couple ofreferences and a couple of just
notes that I could go towards.
And.

(01:07:55):
And I was just trying all thisdifferent stuff and then I was like,
ah, I'm running out of ideas here.
I have to try something else.
And then I was like, oh yeah, I havethis like wall piece in the house.
This guitar that sounds,we talked about it.
It's, it's a weird sound.
Yeah.
And it's like the strings arereally dead and there's, Yeah.
It's a weird sound and just put a micin the room and, and I wrote this riff

(01:08:17):
and, uh, yeah, I did a little intro andI was like, oh, we'll see if he likes it.
I have no idea.
And I sent it over.
Yeah.
What did I say?
Well, you loved it.
Yeah.
Which was, there's nothing

I could change about that.
He's like, Oh, let me know ifthere's anything you want to change.
I'm like, why would I change this?
Why would I step in and start tryingto micromanage a creative process?
I already know.
I like your, your work.
I already know.
I like your stuff.
I've listened to your other music.
Why would I get in and tryand poke my fingers in here?
Because then it becomes less yourwork and more like me with Johnny.

Oh yeah.
Yeah.
You were, then again, likegiving me a lot of freedom.
So it was, that was, I think itwas the hardest part with it.
Because you liked the first part and Iwas like, all right, now you guys have to
do, build a whole song out of this thing.
And, uh, is that stressful?
I was, it's a little stressful.
Yeah.
It's a challenge, you know, but youknow, I, I think a lot of people work

(01:09:12):
best under pressure, and I always,like, do everything last minute.
So, it's just like, working hard,last, last couple, last week.
When did it all

come together?
Like, a couple days before?

Yeah, like, two days before you came here,

like, I sent it over there.
That's when I was done.
If it wasn't for the last minute,nothing would ever get done.
No.
So, you know, I, I'm the same way if, um,I do my best to put everything in place
so that I have some sort of structureor framework that I can work with.
But for my most creative pieces, they'reall done at the very last moment.

Yeah.

I don't know what it is.
Maybe it's an ADHD thing.
Some people would say it is, but

I think it has to do with like creativity.
You have to be able.
Like, pushed and, and whatever youcreated with, you know, it's, if you're,
if you're in a too safe scenario, Ithink you're like, I don't think it
gets too good, you know, you have tobe like, this has to be really good.
You got a lot of pressure on this thing.

(01:10:15):
And like a last minute, I willjust have time to make it.
Now, and, and I think that's,that's when you have to be like, all
right, I just have to make it work.
Whatever, what do I got now tojust finish this thing, you know?

When do you put something down and then turn your head off?
Because, I gotta imagine that After awhile you'd look at, it'd be like, oh,
I could tweak this or I could do that.
Do you ever get that?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I have to have a deadline and everything.
Or, or like, I'll tweakit through eternity.
Yeah.

Yeah.
. Travis Bader: Yeah.
Well, I gotta tell you, Iabsolutely love this song.
It's got some, when I listened to it,the full thing coming through, I'm like,
oh, I can use the first half for this.
Or I could use this partfor like, voiceover.
This part can be for a, uh, um,like YouTube and sign off, or.
And as I'm thinking about all ofthese things, and I talked to you,

(01:11:03):
and that was exactly what you had inyour mind when you're making these
different little sections of it, it's,uh, yeah, do you, do you do a lot of
this kind of work for other people?
Like, or is it?
It happens.
It happens.
Uh, but most of the time I havelike artists coming in and.
We're writing songs and stuff, but everynow and then I do like something special.

(01:11:25):
Not very often.
That's why I also thoughtit was pretty fun.
It's like, it's always a challengeto do this stuff, like to compose.
But I'm happy you liked it.

Absolutely blown away by your work.
Absolutely blown away by your hospitality.
Thank you.
Beautiful place that you have here.
Really, uh, really enjoy setting up and,and filming and recording in your studio.
Robin, thank you so very much forbeing on the Silvercore podcast.
I thoroughly enjoy this and Ireally enjoyed, I should also make

(01:11:55):
sure, shout out to everybody else.
I.
I won't have all the names down right,but it, you know, everywhere, everybody
at Solaron, all the hunting crew.
Thank you so much.
What

an amazing time.
Thank you, Travis.
It's been a blast having youguys here, you and your wife and
had so much fun and pleasure andan honor to be on your podcast.
I love

your work.
And now two more weeks and you're goingto be down on my neck of the woods and
show you what it's like to hunt out there.
I'm
looking forward to it.

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