Ep. 154: Sheep Hunting, Grizzly Bears & the Outdoor Community

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Travis Bader (00:12):
This podcast was recorded on location at the Wild Sheep Society of
BC's Western Hunting Expo in Penticton.
My friend, Sean said, Trev, you got tobring up some of your recording equipment.
Let's record a podcastwhile we're up there.
The good folks at the Beretta Group.
Offered to let us use theirbooth to record this podcast.
And if you're not familiarwith the bread, a group.

(00:33):
They own Sakotika, Beretta, NormaAmmunition, and a whole slew of other
companies I'm sure you've heard of.
They are the oldest firearmsbusiness in the world.
They're coming up on 500 yearsof operation, which is crazy.
And they are generously providingall Silvercorp club members with 25
percent off of all regularly pricedclothing on the Stoger Canada website.

(00:57):
And 10 percent off everything else.
I bring this up.
Because I'm extremely proud of whatthe Silvercore Club is able to offer.
I love the Beretta Group.
I use Beretta shotguns.
I use Sakotika rifles.
I wear the clothing and I wantto be able to share the things
that I like with other people andwith the Silvercore Club members.

(01:18):
If that helps you get outsideand look stylish and have kit
that works, I want to be able tohelp you thrive in the outdoors.
Now, without further ado,let's get on with this episode.
We've got Sean Zabor from SilvercoreJoe Appel from Silvercore Podcast 140.
Missing, we will have tojust send our regrets.

(01:41):
Missing is Kyle Stetler fromSilvercore Podcast, if I
remember right, it was number 38.
He was one of the early guys on there.
He was an OG.
Yeah.
The fact that you memorizethat is very impressive.
I'm not going to lie.
I got on the phone and I hadto look it up ahead of time.
And I will forget all ofthat in a couple of hours.
I can barely remember my name.
The fact that you did that was great.
It's pretty cool how we're able to bringall these different cultures together.

(02:05):
I, I walked through atthe trade show here.
So Sean, you've got Stonehouse Realty.
That's, that's your business.

Sean Zubor (02:10):
Yep.
So we're selling real estate, but,uh, as you guys know, my main gig
is selling high rises and all theother kinds of commercial jazz, but
my passion and heart is always beenin hunting since I was 10 years old.
So, uh, putting one, twotogether, we're helping people.
We're moving guide outfitters nowlooking for properties like lakefront
properties and rural properties,hunting properties, fishing properties,

(02:32):
and yeah, it's, it's, it's a blast.
We've met a ton of people, got a lotof new clients, a lot of new friends.
It's been an awesome show so far.

Yeah.
You know, I'm loving thevibe of this show too.
And there's, it was funny.
Uh, it's been pointed out more thanonce on this show that, uh, if wild
sheep really wants to promote thisand get women into the wild sheep
society, just let them know thatthere's affluent, fit, uh, Bearded.
Yeah.

(02:58):
Attempted bearded.
Yeah.
Attempted bearded.
And Joe, of course, you wereemceeing the event there last night.

Joe Eppele (03:05):
Trying to.

Yeah.

Joe Eppele (03:06):
Are you doing it again tonight?
I'm not.
I'm off the hook.
I think that's part of the reason why Kylewasn't able to join us is he's got to do
all of the heavy lifting this evening.

Got it.
So he's gonna be in frontof the mic doing the mc bit.
Absolutely.

Sean Zubor (03:18):
I love it.
I just wanted to point out toothat I'm six one and I may look
really short in this video, butI'm actually not that short.
These guys are just giants.

Joe Eppele (03:27):
I think that's why we positioned you to the front by the camera.
So actually was

Sean Zubor (03:32):
actually was, yeah.
I've never felt like a midget myentire life until today, so, but that's
funny, actually, you mentioned it.
So my girlfriend was straight upsaying that she's got a friend that.
It's a single and she'slike, she should be here.
Every guy here is sixfoot five and taller.
It feels like all workingout, all doing well.
It's a great community.
Definitely.

Joe Eppele (03:51):
I mean, look at all the guys walking around, just
rugged mountain men that can getout there and survive off the land.
What more could a gal want?

Sean Zubor (03:57):
Exactly.
Ladies, you got to get into sheep huntingor at least hunting and come to the show.
Join the wild sheep society.

So that's an interesting one too, because Wild Sheep
Society is something people say,well, I'm not interested in sheep.
Why?
You know, I like moose hunting,I like deer hunting, but sheep?
But it's so much more than just sheep.
The Wild Sheep Society concentrates onhabitat, and they concentrate on the
same grounds that the deer are goingto be on, that the moose are going to
be on, that the elk are going to be on.

Sean Zubor (04:24):
Yeah.
And it's funny that you mentioned that.
So right now we just implemented thisprogram that every home that we sell,
we're putting a small portion away.
Our goal is to like fundraisebetween five to 10 grand next
year for the wild sheep society.
Right.
But I tell my clients and they'relike, uh, but don't you hunt them?
I'm like, so you're trying to makemore so you could shoot them up?
Like, yeah, kind of, but the realityis, and I think everybody that's into

(04:48):
conservation, into hunting knows thatalmost all conservation, if not all of
it comes from hunters one way or another.
And especially with the wild sheepsociety, it's, it's about having a legacy
that our kids and our families downthe line, we'll be able to hunt these
sheep for years and years and years.
And, um, I think one thing isa big misconception for myself.

(05:09):
Anyways, I've hunted everything.
my entire life.
And I feel like sheep hunting is somethingthat is just as much of adventure
as it is hunting in and of itself.
But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a funnyconversation with clients when you're
telling them these things, because itseems like an oxymoron that, yeah, we do
harvest these animals, we do kill them.
But the reality is, is you do itvery, very few and far between, um, in

(05:30):
comparison to how many times you go out.
But the fact that they're therebecause of societies like this is And

Joe Eppele (05:37):
the funds raised at events like this go back into, it's so much
more than just harvesting an animaland putting more on the mountain.
It's about education on making surewhen you do harvest an animal, how
to harvest the right one, make sureyou're focusing on mature age class.
And then also the funds go tohabitat restoration, habitat
protection, different areas where.
You know, farm sheep are getting tooclose to our wild sheep, introducing

(05:58):
diseases, a lot of that stuffthat most people aren't aware of.
That's what a lot ofthese funds go towards.
So it's a habitat restoration.
Um, you know, right now, huge projectsgoing along the Fraser River with
Movi, what's been going on there.
The capturing, testing, making surewe're moving those diseased sheep.
Um, so it's a lot of that that goes onand that stuff has so much more impact.
In the big, you know, picture.

(06:19):
So, yes, the community does harvestand remove some of those rams, but the
number of rams that are back on themountain because of groups like Wild
Sheep Society BC, and if you look at it,I mean, look at the numbers, no group.
In conservation period from what Ihave seen is making sure that the money
that comes in goes directly out bootson the ground projects for everything.

Sean Zubor (06:39):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
Uh, what the wild sheep societyactually does and what everybody
here is to really support that.
I mean, we all love the gear we alllove and we're going to talk about
that huge shout out to Tika forletting us use their booth and all
the guys that Italian everybody else.
But, um, you're here for the sport,the love, the hobby of, of, uh, Uh,

(07:00):
sheep hunting, but the reality is, iseverybody's just as behind to actually
like, like, I've never been to any kindof event where everybody's doing every
kind of like 50, 50 draw or gun drawor this, like everybody's putting money
into everything, you know, and theyknow the likelihood of winning this
close to zilch, like every other draw.
Right.
But it's, for them, it's just a wayof giving and it's, it's something

(07:21):
that really impresses me how, howtight knit this specific community
is really started to become.

Yeah.
Yeah, the amount of moneythese organizations raise.
Uh, Wild Sheep Foundation in the States?
How much did that ticket go for?
Wasn't that a record, a record record?
700k

Sean Zubor (07:38):
or something?
US?
I thought it was over a million.
Over a million?

Joe Eppele (07:40):
Wasn't it over a million?
Yeah, I think the, the, I'm tryingto remember the exact number.
See, you have all the numbers,you're the man with the numbers.
I didn't.
You're supposed to havethem all memorized.
I wanted to remember you ahead of time.
This is where we need Kyle.
Kyle would have that onthe tip of his tongue.
Absolutely.

Actually, Joe, I got something here for you.
I was going to give it to youlast time I was at your place.
Completely forgot.
There you go.
Here's an official crab measurewhen you're out there in Squamish.
Yes, it has my name on it So ifit gets lost, it'll be returned.

Joe Eppele (08:08):
I love it.
That is a big boy crab measure Igot this little rinky dink thing,
but this is a Absolutely perfect

floating on that guy.
You're out there.
You're in the water drop it.
It's all good And it's notgoing to break or crack.
That's a commercial crab measure.

Joe Eppele (08:23):
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it.

I forgot that one from the last time.

Joe Eppele (08:28):
I love it.

Yeah.
That's one of the thingsI see here at the show.
Everybody here is very, verypassionate about the outdoors.
And we've got hunters, we've gotanglers, we have people who are into
mountain hunting, we've got peoplewho are into a whitetail, into a
blacktail, into a mule deer, into moose.
I mean, it's the whole gamut here.

(08:50):
But when I talk with people, whatit really boils down to, it's
just their love of being outside.
Just their love with that connectionwith their natural environment.

Sean Zubor (09:01):
I think.
I think the world we're in right now.
I think there's a lot ofpositive change happening.
There's been a lot of crazy stuffover the last few years or decades.
And we've been kind of, uh, uh, what'sthe best way going away from our
traditions of hunting, but I think alot of guys out there, like you have,
like the Joe Rogans of the world, youguys that are really kind of promoting

(09:23):
what it's all about, and I think it is.
I think the general public, and I'mhoping that this is coming across, the
general public is starting to realizeit's not just about killing animals.
It's really about getting out thereas a community, it's family, it's,
it's, uh, so many different things.
It's wildlife in its, in and of itself,protecting our resources, right?
Like, even if we look at history, therewouldn't be any national parks in the

(09:44):
States if there wasn't Theodore Roosevelt,you know, and, you know, one of my idols,
and that guy was a massive hunter, right?
So, um, it's nice to see.
It becoming cool again, for lack ofa word, to get out there and hunt.
Why do you think that is?

Why is it becoming cool again?

Joe Eppele (10:00):
Joe, what do you think?

It's because of people like Joe.
I would not, I would not put

Joe Eppele (10:04):
my name on that one.
Um, I honestly think, uh, everybodyhates to talk about COVID, but I
think during COVID, there was a bigpush when we had all those confined.
You know, you weren'tallowed to travel outside.
Then they deemed food acquisitionas an essential service.
So people could fish and peoplecould hunt and still travel.
But it seemed like everybody stoppedbeing so busy with traveling to

(10:24):
distant places and they startedlooking at what was around them.
But I think there was a big push backinto holistic nutrition, you know,
becoming physically fit, getting outdoors.
And I did notice a big uptake.
I think that was some of the biggestspikes we've had in, uh, fishing license
sales, new tags, new hunters coming intothe fold from what I read back then.
Um, and I just think it'stransition people really.

(10:46):
Slow down and looked at what matteredthe most and you talked about it earlier.
It's all these people getting togetherabout their love of the outdoors.
All it takes is that will first tripinto the mountains for most people.
And right away, you either knowif you love it or you hate it.
And I think the vast majority ofpeople have forgotten how much they
truly love and rely on the outdoors.
Because the outdoors teaches youso much about who you are as an
individual, but it's also an opportunity.

(11:08):
I mean, you see a lot of families walkingaround here with their kids, their
second, third generation in the society.
Um, and, and it's an opportunityfor you to get out completely
disconnect from everything and soakup what really matters the most.
I mean, you get out there, it's humbling.
It doesn't matter if you're,I mean, there's a lot of
guides walking around here.
You see guys at guide camp, there'smillionaires and there's wrench pullers

(11:29):
in the hunt camp and it's just, it'severything's broken down to the basics.
And, um, I think that's a big partof what people are starting to see
again is, you know, in a time wherethere's so much divide between groups,
everybody seems like they're splitting,finding a community that's just,
it brings everybody back together.
And it doesn't matter, you know, ifyou're the richest guy in the room, the

(11:49):
poorest guy in the room, whatever it is,like the mountains, you can't cheat the
mountains, the mountains don't lie, right?
Everybody is on the same playingfield once you get out there.
And I think there's justsomething special about that.
And I mean, you guys see it this weekend.
Like it's just such a good, warmenvironment being here this weekend, the
banquets, you sit down and it's just,everybody's there having fun together.

(12:09):
It's that kind of traditional value.
It's those good community vibes.
Um, I think people arestarting to come back to that.
And again, to your, to your note, youknow, the, the Joe Rogans of the world,
people like that certainly do put it on.
Not a pedestal, but on a platformand they do it in a well placed way.
Um, Travis, I think you do aphenomenal job in educating people

(12:30):
and kind of breaching those divides.
You know, there's a lot of education.
We're opening the doors to people.
I think there was a lot in the past whereit was, it was made to be a community
that was kind of kept to the side.
And now all these other groups aretrying to shut us down so much.
It's like, okay, well, we needto open ourselves up, raise our
voice because like our way oflife is being targeted right now.

(12:50):
And if we don't start standing up.
We, we can't get by with justhaving small numbers anymore.
We need large numbers.
So we have a larger voice.
So I think there's a lot ofdifferent pieces falling into place
and why it's becoming popular.
Um, but yeah, I think itultimately comes down to just.
Once you're in the mountains, thepeople that are getting pushed

(13:11):
to expose themselves to it.
Once you're out there, youreally realize how important
it is to have that way of life.

It is a grand leveler.
And I haven't seen another activitythat's so egalitarian in its nature.
You've got, like, multi millionairessitting down at the table.
Last night we're at the table with,uh, three young hunting guides.
Was it JT?
Help me?
Carter

Joe Eppele (13:33):
and

Carson.
Yeah, Carter LaVallee and Carson.
Carson Lavallee and Carter.
No, I got it backwards.
They'll crack me on here.
They drove 12 hours to be down here.
And I think they're sleepingin the trailer, they said,
out in the parking lot.

Joe Eppele (13:46):
Don't tell anybody, because they'll get a ticket.
But there is a horsetrailer parked out front.
The boys, they got offwork Thursday night.
And yeah, jumped in the pickup truck,drug their horse trailer out here.
They just wanted to behere and experience it.
Some boys from Alberta.
Yep.
Um, I've actually huntedwith some way up north.
They were wranglers on one of my trips.
And just salt of the earth, guys.
Just wanted to be here andbe a part of the energy

right and and they fit in just side by side with the people
who are multimillionaires and it's justEveryone's here for the exact same reason.
It's for their love of the outdoors.
That commonality,

Sean Zubor (14:23):
that ground that they share.
And I think one of the things too is,is, and I'm sure, I mean, you guys all
have kids, you got a brand new one.
Congratulations.
Um, my oldest hunter is turning 10.
He's actually going to be in yourcourse in March, as soon as he turns 10.
And all he's talking about isgoing on his first bear hunt.
We shot a few grouse last year, anda couple other things, super excited.

(14:43):
I tell you, as I'm sure you guysare aware, they get sucked into
the YouTube, to these iPads, tothis, you know, these, these social
networks that we're all a part of.
Don't get me wrong.
Sure.
You know, we all, all do theYouTube and Instagram and all
that jazz, but I, I think.
As we become closer via social media,we really become much more separated and

(15:06):
individualistic and so on and so forth.
And we get these dopamine hits frompeople liking us and following us that
are totally not real, you know whatI mean, for lack of a better word.
And I think there really is very fewthings in this world that we get to truly
experience that is legitimately real.
You know, and when you're in the forest,when you're in the bush, when you're got a
pack on your back, and just like you guyssaid, it's the ultimate level, it makes

(15:28):
no difference what that guy does, or hasdone in the past, or making money, doesn't
make money, it's, you guys are bothsuffering, you know what I mean, you've
both got packs, you're both going up thesame mountain, like, it is, it is, The
ultimate, um, equalizer of individuals.
And, and I think it's very few times thatI realize that I'm actually in the moment.

(15:49):
I'm not thinking about, you know, whathappened yesterday with business or
where I'm planning or my goals are,or all these other things are just
like, yeah, just don't fall off thiscliff, you know, like do not die.
Next step.
That's about it.
Right.
So, um, yeah, it's, it's, uh,almost like a form of meditation
to me in some sort of way.
It's pretty, pretty awesome.
Pretty profound for sure.

Joe Eppele (16:09):
So I think it's the best refresh, recharge, disconnect, whatever
you, I call it like reconnecting bydisconnecting, like, cause you go out
there and you've never felt more at peace.
Every time I go in the mountains, itfeels like it brings life back into
perspective because you truly do realizelike how much of these anxiety driven
behaviors or the stress you have goingon on a day to day basis, how much

(16:32):
of that is self imposed and not real.
And once you're out there, it'slike, okay, I'm in the mountains.
Um, am I going to be warmenough to survive tonight?
Am I going to have enough food?
Am I going to have enough water?
Like, it's literally shelter, food, heat.
Like, that's what's going throughyour mind, and then in those moments,
you know, when things are going,like, the hunt's tough, or whatever
it is, you get weathered into yourtent for two, three days, and it's

(16:54):
like, okay, what do you miss the most?
Do you miss your family?
Like those types of things.
So then all of a suddeneverything falls into perspective.
All that other stuffthat you think matters.
You're like, does it really matter?
And it just, so then you come out ofthe mountains and it's like, everything
in life makes sense and then you'reback out for too long and everything,
you know, it all gets muddled togetherand you start stressing about the wrong
stuff and it's like, my wife will lookat me sometimes and be like, you need to

(17:16):
leave the house and go in the mountains.
And I don't, I'm like, okay,she's doing that for me.
And I try and tell myselfshe's doing that for me.
Maybe she just wants me out of the house,but I do know that when I come back.
I try and remember and lock thatfeeling in because Everything seems
so clear in the day to day as soonas you come out of the mountains.
But then once you get right backinto that, that rat race and you're

(17:37):
back on that spinning wheel, it'stough to keep it in that perspective.

I do have a hard time switching gears.
Personally, I, if I'm in themountains, if I'm out in the
bush, I don't want to leave.
When I come back into work and I goteverything coming in, I find it hard
to get back out into the mountains.
I want to be out there, but I knowI've got all these obligations and I
got all this work I gotta get done.
I have a hard time making a point.

(18:01):
A smooth transition between them.
It's

Joe Eppele (18:05):
yeah, it's, it's one of those funny things because like I said, it's,
I mean, when you leave, you do get thatopportunity to completely disconnect.
But when you disconnect, I mean,as adults, we understand we have
responsibilities in the real life.
So you can't just walk awayfrom it and completely forget
that you do have bills to pay.
You do have these.
Not necessarily, they're not falseimposed kind of responsibilities.

(18:28):
They're real responsibilities as anadult, especially as providing males.
Society tells us we have a lotof these responsibilities that
we just have to do, right?
So when we do step outside,you do go in the mountains.
You get to be a kid again.
You get to disconnect from all of that.
Which is a freedom that many people thatdon't hunt never really, truly experience.
But there is on some level, I havethis guilt right up until the second

(18:52):
my boots hit the dirt and I'm outof the truck or I'm out of service.
I have this guilt of, youknow, am I putting myself
ahead of my responsibilities?
Am I supposed to be, I don't wannasay a martyr, but like, are you
supposed to just carry those burdensand eat it on a day to day basis?
But over the years I've seen thisknowledge of like, okay, yes, this
time away is necessary because whenI come back, I am such a better

(19:14):
person that I'm able to do everythingelse and deal with those burdens
and deal with those responsibilitiesat such a higher level that it's
like this necessary give and take.
It's like.
When you're busy withwork, you're a fit guy.
When you're busy with work, sometimeswork's getting so like, okay, I
don't have a minute to spare today.
I'm not going to go to the gym.
You don't perform well that day.
You've got this fog, thishaze, and you don't realize it.

(19:37):
Cause you're like, I'm justgonna keep my head down.
I'm going to get through it.
I don't have a minute tospare to get to the gym.
If you take even 20 minutes to halfan hour to do a quick workout, get the
endorphins flowing, you're going to gettwice as much done that day, but you
had to sacrifice that window of time.
And I really do think, you know,sometimes that time in the mountains
is like that 20 to 30 minute workout.

(19:57):
Sometimes it's only a day.
Sometimes it's a 14 day trip if you'rereally lucky, but it will make you perform
at such a higher level at everything else.
Because again, you can prioritize,you can function at a higher rate.

Sean Zubor (20:08):
I think part of it for me too is, is um, Sheep
hunting in general, I find it manytimes as a type two kind of fun.
So if I'm going to two weeks andI'm down 17 pounds in 10 days, and
I'm just like, there's a lot oftimes I'm looking at my in reach.
I'm like that button looks good.
The come save me button.
So some of those times, and I'm like,I'm never going to do this again.

(20:31):
That's happened.
My first sheep hunt.
And then on the flight out, I'malready booking the next flight in.
Right.
So I think it's, it's niceto have that disconnect, but.
Just like you said, I think if it a putseverything in perspective for me Like
it is crazy to me how many people thatlive in the lower mainland have never
been past like Kelowna or God forbidPrince George and you talk about going

(20:55):
up to like, you know, where Muncho Lakeor something way up north there The
beauty that we're surrounded with itjust opens your eyes and most people
have never actually Laid under the starsand seen an actual the stars without
light pollution, you know Like you don'tunderstand how bright it actually is
what Milky Way actually looks like right?

(21:16):
so I think it puts everything intoperspective plus I'm a big believer
just like in training that If you dodifficult things and sheep hunting
without a doubt is an incredibly difficultthings in most cases, everything else
in life just goes, comes a lot easier.
You know, like, I'm like, Oh, Igot to go to a business meeting.
I got to wake up at five.
Darn.
Like that's a lot easier.

(21:38):
Yeah, exactly.
It's a lot easier than sleepingon in a tent, climbing up a
mountain with a 90 pound pack.
Right.
Then I overpacked like usual, youknow, it's, it's a completely,
completely different beast for sure.
Overpack as usual.

Yeah, it's so easy to do as well when you head out there.
Do I want to be comfortable?
Do I want to be lightweight?
I mean, the, our, I mean, moderngear is getting better and you
can get some lightweight stuff,but, uh, yeah, overpacking is one
of my, I end up finding stashes.
I don't know if you guys do that.
I end up going out there andrealizing, damn, I overpacked, and
I find a place to stash my kit.

(22:11):
I'm

Joe Eppele (22:12):
guilty for the same.
Every time I come out of the bush, I tryand go through, so I have a checklist.
I have a Excel, online Excel sheet,and I weigh every item when I buy it.
I weigh it so I know exactly whateach individual piece weighs.
So I have a checklist so I can.
Check everything and it kind oftotals my weight at the bottom tells
you what I'm expected great I gotmy backpack exactly where I want it.
And then all of a sudden as it's like 48hours before I leave Maybe I need this.

(22:35):
Oh, you know what?
I checked the weather again I mightneed that and then the bag it's heavier
and heavier and then every time Icome out of the mountains I look
at my list and I what didn't I use

Sean Zubor (22:43):
right

Joe Eppele (22:43):
right and then it's like, okay, you know what?
maybe I didn't need to bringthat but it's It's inevitable.
There's always times I bring stuff Ineeded or I didn't need, I mean, but then
there's a few things that I pulled afterthe last hunt, because I didn't use it and
I'm up there and I'm like, I would givemy left arm if I had that with me for the

staff tech because you're like, I overpacked, but if
I need to, I can hike back down.
I can grab this kit.
That's a smart,

Joe Eppele (23:06):
I need to do that more.

Yeah.
Just don't forget yourself up there.
I've done that one before too.

Sean Zubor (23:13):
Yeah.
I'm just, I'm the worst.
I literally, I'm like, Oh, I need threeknives because this one does this.
This one does that.
And I'm just like, Oh yeah.
And then my back every single time I'mpicking up my buddy's pack versus my pack.
I'm like, what's going on here?
Makes no sense.
But yeah.
And when

Joe Eppele (23:28):
you're six foot, what are you eight?
Six.
I've done some heavy, maybe like six.
Seven and a half now, I've shrunk a bit.
I'm sure over the,

yeah, everything you own weighs more, your boots,
way more, your pants, way more,your jacket weighs more food,

Joe Eppele (23:42):
food is the biggest struggle for me is I've found that
I'm constantly going, okay, am I goingto have enough calories for the day?
I want to be right at that bonklevel where at the end of the
day, I'm kind of just fading.
It's one of those things where it'slike, okay, you want to sneak in a bit
more calories, but as soon as you havemore calories, you're packed heavier and
you're gonna be burning more calories.
But I, my favorite thing though, iswhen you're on the mountain every

(24:05):
day, I'm like, Oh, I just each day,my backpack, I'm like, I got 1.
6 pounds later today.
This is great.
That mountain's going to feela little bit easier tomorrow.

Yeah.
Do you

Joe Eppele (24:13):
have a go

to food?
Something that you haveto have in your back?

Joe Eppele (24:16):
Well, um, maybe a little luxury food, you know, one luxury food.
They're actually here at the show.
Um, Bruce, I got him to come.
It's a BC company, Enercheese.
The cheese

that he's over there.

Joe Eppele (24:27):
So it's great.
It's just like a freezedried cheese, which is good.
But the trick that I realized last year,so I. I love a good fatty dinner at night.
I take a few of those freezedried chunks of cheese and I
throw them in my peak dinner.
And it'll actually kindof like get gooey again.

Sean Zubor (24:42):
Yeah.

Joe Eppele (24:42):
That is a guilty, guilty pleasure of mine.

Sean Zubor (24:45):
Yeah, that makes sense.
It's just gonna rehydratebasically, right?

Joe Eppele (24:48):
So I thought it was just gonna kind of powder
and give it that cheese flavor.
But it actually does turn intothat gooey cheese again, so.
We're all drooling now.
We might have to take,we're going to take a break.
We're going to be right back.

I do like those cheesies for me.
It was always the one I'd bring out.
Hawkins

Sean Zubor (25:03):
cheesies.

Yeah, they're lightweight.
I put them in little plastic bags.
I divvy it up every single day.
I have to be disciplined.
I do not crave sweets.
I do crave salt.
What about the mountains?
Yeah,

Sean Zubor (25:13):
I used to bring like sweets, like, especially like, um, you know,
where they give you, uh, for Halloweenor something like that, the kid's stuff,
but then you're just, your gut just getsnasty after a while from that stuff.
So now it's mainly, I'm just usingpeak 99 percent of the time, but
when I threw him last year's huntor this year's hunt, I should say.
Last year's on technically, Iguess, um, was protein powder.

(25:33):
I've never done that before.
And, uh, so there's kindof like a meal replacement.
It's a little bit highercalorie protein power.
Cause we always take protein bars.
Cause for breakfast, we don't,we never really have breakfast.
It's just coffee and, you know, cliffbar or whatever, and kind of get going.
But, um, this protein powder was pretty,it was pretty good in the overall size.
is it doesn't take up too muchsize, not too much weight.

(25:56):
You're getting calories and it'sa lot of protein, longer lasting.
So I think I'll probablytry that again next year.
Maybe I won't bring as much as I didlast time, but we're pretty good.
Speaking of powders,

Joe Eppele (26:05):
one thing I've done to kind of extend the amount of calories I have in my
meals is, uh, well, for my dinners, I openthem up and I normally do one and a half
dinners per pouch and then I reseal it.
But the other thing I do is I'lladd in some scoops of MCT powder.

Sean Zubor (26:17):
It's just

Joe Eppele (26:18):
that quick fat into the system and it's super lightweight.
So I'll do that.
Sometimes some scoops of bonebroth or something like that.
Throw that in there.
Does the MCT mess with your stomach

Sean Zubor (26:28):
at all?

Joe Eppele (26:28):
I've never personally, I've never had issues with it.
Um, I don't do like, you know,

Sean Zubor (26:32):
big amounts too

Joe Eppele (26:33):
aggressive.
I just sneak a little bit extra in there.
Um, I do that.
And then in my oatmeal is all openableand I'll put a bit of MCT powder
and some powdered peanut butter.
So I thought powdered peanut butter when Ifirst got it, I was like, Oh, it's great.
Cause it's going to be so highin calories like peanut butter.
It's high in protein, but the thingis the, a lot of the fat, I guess,
in peanut butter comes from the oilsthat they use to keep it that way.
So when you dehydrate it.

(26:54):
You lose a lot of those oils.
So that's, that's originally whatI, why I happened on MCT powder is
because I used to bring individualpacks of peanut butter and I rip it
open and dump it in all my meals.
And then I was like, Oh,I'm gonna use the powder.
It's going to be the sameas the peanut butter.
And it wasn't.
So I was like, well, howdo I get that fat back in?
Then I found the MCT powder.
And then I was like, well, I don'tjust need to use this in my breakfast.

(27:17):
I'll use the powder in mydinners and everything.
And it's.
It kind of works out well.
It works

Sean Zubor (27:22):
for more things, because peanut butter, you're not going to
throw in like a spaghetti or somethinglike that anyways, where you can
throw in MCT, no problem, right?
Exactly.
And yeah, just

Joe Eppele (27:29):
sneaking some of those calories in, it just
boosts you a little bit.

Sean Zubor (27:32):
Okay, so, uh, quick question, because we bumped into
at, uh, you were with me, I think,at my, uh, booth, uh, Rod Galtica?
Giltaca?
Giltaca?
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
Um, with the CCFR, super niceguy, huge into what they're doing.
What's your guys thoughts with, um To geta little bit more political because that's
kind of the stuff we've been talking.

(27:53):
Uh oh.
Dun dun dun.
He's going to edit this part out.
Um, What's your guys thoughtswith what's happening?
Obviously there's rumorsof elections coming.
How do you guys think that's going toaffect obviously gun ownership and,
uh, more important, us as hunters?
What are your guys thoughts, andthis is kind of a two pronged
question, on grizzlies coming back?

(28:15):
I've heard it's a possibility, Idon't know what's happened, but
I've been told by some COs thatit might be in the works somehow.

Joe Eppele (28:22):
I mean, from my experience in the field lately, I would say the
conflict we're having with grizzlybears has increased drastically.
I mean, it's increased drasticallyover the past maybe 8 to 10 years.
But I would say it's been sped up atsuch an extreme rate over the last
few years since the hunt's been shutdown where something has to change.

(28:43):
Um, and if they are smart inoffice, they will go, okay, well,
these bears are becoming an issue.
How can we generate revenuefrom this that can give back?
To the monitoring of these speciesgive back, because I mean, the hunts
previously brought a lot of money tothe table, not just for the bears,
but for other species as well.

(29:04):
Right.
So shutting that down was thevery, we got an announcement.
Should we pause for a second?
But shutting that down was a very,very nearsighted, short sighted.
I mean, if they had to do anything,maybe they should have shrunk the
numbers a bit, but, but something'sgoing to happen here pretty soon,
whether it's the government steppingin and doing it silently and spending
taxpayers dollars to make it to reduce.

(29:24):
The numbers essentially, or openingthings back up in a way that can
generate that revenue and createsome positivity that comes from it.
And I mean, if you look at it in that way,I mean, yes, we are biased, obviously,
but if you just look at that and you takeemotion out of it, it is hard to argue

(29:45):
against that type of approach, which is Ithink what we all struggle with is, yes,
we're biased, so we want to bring it back.
But the other side is just so passionate.
Against it that they're it's like whenyou're in an argument with somebody like
I don't care if I make sense or not Ijust need to show that I'm right and
it's like okay But are you even listeningto the words coming out of your mouth?

Well, it's hard to fight emotion with logic

Joe Eppele (30:07):
Yes,

you can't do it I mean you could be as logical as you want and
you're having that argument with theperson who's highly emotional You're
going to have to let them have theiremotional bit, but we don't have to
give that emotion the power behind it.
We don't have to start eliminating ormaking policy changes or legislative
changes based on something thatis, that's purely emotional.
And I, I get it.

(30:28):
I, I remember years ago, um, Corporationof Delta, before it became the City
of Delta, they had a, a meeting there.
They said, look, we're thinking aboutdoing what Surrey did and we're going to.
We're not going to get rid of the gunstores and the firearms businesses,
but we're going to put a moratoriumexisting ones can stay But anyone
new they can't come in and man.

(30:49):
I had all my logic.
I had all my stats I had all mystuff and I'm up there at City
Hall going through my stuff and Ithink was his name Barry Conkin.
I think was his name says hold onTravis Like I see you have a bunch
of pages like how much more of thisyou have I said, well, I don't know
I got I start going through it.
He says I'm gonna stop you right there.

(31:09):
I agree with you a hundred percent.
Everything you say makes sense.
O okay, so why are you contemplatingthis change then, right?
He says it's got nothing todo with what makes sense.
It's got nothing to dowith what I agree with.
It's got to do with what we thinkthe constituents want, and if we
have a vocal Constituency who saysthis is what we want, then we're
going to have to entertain it.

(31:30):
They didn't end up enacting themoratorium like they're going to,
but they at least went through themotions of seriously considering it.
So I, I think when it comes to the bearone, I as well have heard that they
will be bringing bear hunting back in.
I have had negativegrizzly bear encounters.
We have a generation of grizzly bearsnow who have grown up to not be afraid

(31:55):
of humans, not have a respect for humans.
I tried to scare one off that wasgetting way, way, way too close and
I fired around beside it thinkingthat big boom, that concussive
force, that'll get it going off.
It didn't even flinch.
It didn't associate that withdanger or me with danger.
I

Joe Eppele (32:14):
think sometimes I'm in my experience, that boom now for them is
more associated with the dinner bell.

That's right.

Joe Eppele (32:19):
Because they hear that and they go, okay, maybe
there's going to be a gut pile.
There's something for me to go find.
I'm going to go look closer into that.
So we've had issues.
Yeah, we were coming out from an elk hunt.
We.
And I'm quite confident that the gunshotitself is what pulled that bear in on us.

Sean Zubor (32:34):
Well, it's crazy.
I've been hunting since I was10 years old and up until maybe
five years ago, and I'm 40 now.
Um, up until five years ago, Inever really even saw grizzly and
wild, like maybe one in the distanceand we were hunting up north with
my dad and so on and so forth.
Now, there isn't a trip where I don'tsee one, even in places like Cache Creek
and Hunter Mile and so on and so forththat aren't renowned for grizzly bears.

(32:57):
They're out there everywhere,just like the wolves and we, now
obviously we have a call in a lotof different places on the wolves.
There's still a ton of them, butlast year on my sheep hunt, or
this year, sorry, on my sheep hunt.
We saw three of them.
One went through our camp.
The other one was chasing usdown while we were leaving.
Like it was insane.
And when on our way out, uh, we took the,Jason brought us up there on the jet boat.

(33:20):
And, uh, excuse me, on our way out,I was actually with Chuck was on the
same boat with me from spike campand we're chatting and apparently,
and don't quote this number, but it'ssomething ridiculous like this, that.
In the last decade that they had theopen grizzly hunt, right, it's something
like 90 percent of all these grizzliesthat were shot weren't on a purpose hunt.

(33:42):
They weren't out there hunting grizzlies.
They were in an elk hunt, they werein a sheep hunt, they were in a moose
hunt, and they all had tags, theywere all legally taken, but these were
problem bearers coming into camps.
They were taking the meat.
They were, you know, beingaggressive, putting humans at risk.
End.
It was a massive majority of allbear shot were problem bears, right?

(34:03):
And now who's got to take care of it.
You talk to the guys, the CEOs that areworking up in Dawson and so on and so
forth, like 95 percent of their callsare taking care of some kind of bear.
That's a nuisance bear that a huntercould have taken care of when, you
know, they were protecting their,their meat and whatever it is.
So it's not even the, you're nowallowing these problem bears, like you

(34:24):
said, they're, it's a generation of.
Problem bears, you know,or, or issues with them.
So it's interesting to say.
So what about the gun stuff?

The gun stuff.
Well, before we do the gun stuff, becauseI know my ADH you'll kick in and I wanted
to ask the question, cause we talkedabout gut piles, bears looking for a
gut pile, the Ravens flying overhead,oftentimes indicator, all the birds
come around that you've got a gut pile.
I got a theory and I'm goingto throw it by you too.
I have a theory that the bears willlook at these Ravens and they'll say,

(34:55):
Oh, probably a gut pile down below.
And I've been playingthat theory a little bit.
These birds are really smart.
What if these birds arelike, I want a gut pile.
Because sometimes it feels likethey're indicating to me, when I'm out
there, of where an animal could be.
Because I've been starting topay attention to the ravens
and finding success in my hunt.

(35:17):
Have you guys done that?
There's, there's

Joe Eppele (35:19):
I don't know if you want to call it folklore or like
it's an old mountain man myth.
And I know it's somethingthat was present.
Um, some first nation,that's part of it as well.
But there is a respect withthe birds of prey like Ravens.
And they do say that there's, there'sbeen a lot of stories and a lot of
tales of that being a part of it.
There's definitely anunderstanding about certain people.
It's also like, I mean, I don't knowif it's on the same vein, but like

(35:42):
if you're going in the mountainsand you see an owl or something,
it's supposed to be great luck.
But, but yeah, I, I've heard a lot of.
Stories of individuals that go outin the mountains, and they look for
the ravens and crows and go, okay.
I'm going to see where they take me today.

Yeah, I don't know if correlation is causation.
I don't have enough data to beable to make that, but I've,
I've been playing with it a bit.
I figured I'll throw it out to seeand maybe the listeners have done
this and they have some feedback.

Sean Zubor (36:03):
I could, I could definitely see that.
I mean, it's miraculous how quick theyend up on the gut pile, like you're,
you're still skinning an animal oryou're, you're, you're gutting it and
they're there three minutes later.
So yeah, I could see that.

So

Sean Zubor (36:15):
you

want to talk about the gun thing now?
Hey.

Sean Zubor (36:17):
Yeah, the only reason is so I'll, I'll give some background on it.
So I'm an avid gun guy as well.
I even had a firearm channel, themodern caveman on YouTube a long time
ago when I still had guns to review.
So good old

Joe Eppele (36:34):
days, good old

Sean Zubor (36:35):
days.
And so.
There's one disconnect that, andthat's the only thing, and I think
people are starting to, um, because,you know, the only, and I'll just
throw this out there, the extreme ofTrudeau on how crazy everything has
gone with that, I think it's almostbrought a lot of, like, the gun culture
and hunting culture closer together.
Right.
So, excuse me.

(36:55):
If I look back in the past, I evenremember as a kid, like being looked
down on that we were hunting with agun because the guy was a bow hunter.
So he's more of a superior hunter.
You know, there's always been thesetypes of like riffs in our community.
And I think now it's starting to get a lotbetter because of the extremes of Trudeau.
But the one thing, um, and Ron andI were talking about it as well is,

(37:16):
you know, I own multiple restrictedfirearms that are going to be taken away.
I think I got like nine, Nine orten guns that are now prohibited
in my, in my gun safe, right?
And, um, for me I'd really like to see,and I love the fact that the Wild Sheep
Society is doing this, having him,he's speaking tonight, I think he was
saying, right, and having him a partof them and so on and so forth, just

(37:39):
combining it a little bit more withsport shooters, um, guys that were doing
three gun, cause I think it's importantthat we all are very solidified beside
the fact, because I think there's stillsome and genuinely I feel even the last
year or two, it's been a big change,but I think there's still some hunters
out there that don't believe that theirguns are literally on the chopping

(38:02):
blocks right now that believe that, oh,they'll never get rid of bolt actions.
They'll never get rid of this.
They'll never get rid of that.
Um, I don't know.
What are your guys thoughts on that?

Joe Eppele (38:11):
I mean, it's a fight of a death by 1000 cuts, right?
And it's the same thing that'sbeen happening with our Um, you
know, a lot of people in thegrizzly bear hunt was banned.
A lot of hunters just want,well, I don't hunt grizz.
So I don't care.
Right.
But that was like the grizzlybear was the big barrier in
front of all the other species.
So as soon as the grizzly bearwent, then there was the fight

(38:32):
we had for the cats and the fightwe're having for other predators.
And so it's.
It's not like these groups orthe, the opposition is going
to go, okay, we won the battle.
That was the only battle we want.
We walk away, right?
For them, they have a long planand they're a unified group.
So talking about, you know, how fragmentedwe are and everybody's in their own pocket
and they're like, Oh, that's their fight.

(38:53):
It doesn't touch me.
I completely agree as a society.
We all need to understandlike this isn't going to stop.
After one of these things, top onsome of the groups, open state.
Well, this is the only thing we're coming.
We're only coming for the cat hunts.
If the cat hunts stop,we're going to go away.
Well, yes, that official organizationmight go away, but you don't think 90
percent of those members are going to comeback under a different umbrella, under a

(39:16):
different name, with a different group.
Like that's, that's, what'sgoing to continually happen.
And that's what we see.
That's what we saw afterthe grizzly bear hunt.
What really happens isevery time they get a win.
It's like a sports team.
You gain that momentum and youbecome that much fiercer of a group.
And then everybody rallies behindit because it's like, Oh wait, they
actually were able to get a victory.
Well, now I'm going to,now I really believe in it.

(39:37):
We're going to have this change.
We're going to do this.
And the challenge that we really face ison our side, we're really held under a
microscope and we have to speak truths.
We can't step out of lineand falsify information.
The other side, 90 percent ofwhat they put on these banners,
billboards, some of these peoplethat they're teaching in school.
It's completely false right now.

(39:58):
So, um, I kind of went on a bit of atangent there, but I would say, you know,
all of these different groups and allthese different pockets in the shooting
sports, everybody needs to come together.
Because, like Rod said earlier thismorning at the, at the life member
breakfast, um, you know, a lot of theguns that have been put on the chopping
block already are guns that he neverin a million years would have thought

(40:18):
would have come and they're gone andthey're in the rear view mirror now.
And it's not like they're goingto stop and go, okay, we got this.
We're happy.
I mean, you can just look at the listthey're putting forward and they're
literally just throwing spaghettiat the wall and seeing what sticks
like there's no logic behind it.
And that shows you alone thatthey don't have an end in sight.
They're just going, let'sgrab as many as we can now.

(40:39):
And then we'll let them calm downa little bit and then they'll
go, okay, everything's fine.
And then we'll come back and we'll graba few more and we'll grab a few more.
And it's the same thing they're goingto do with the hunting licenses.
They're going to go, okay, no, wait, no.
They stood up and fought for the cats.
Okay.
We won't, we won't go after cats.
What else can we go after?
What else can we sneak away whileeverybody's looking over here?
What else can we pull out the back doorand that's what they're gonna keep doing

(41:01):
They're circling and they're just gonnapull away pull away and pretty soon We're
gonna be sitting there and you're onthe last hill and people are gonna go.
How did we get here?
And it's because everybodydidn't come together.
Everybody didn't get eachother's backs, right?
Like that's that's what needs to happenSo to your point like I agree we need to
get everybody together and one unifiedfront messaging needs to be consistent

(41:21):
across the board Um, that's essentialif we're gonna, the way things are
going, I mean, yes, maybe obviouslysome changes in office could impact
that, but I mean, yes, it could makethings a lot better, but is that going
to stop some of these organizations?
They're always going tofind a way to come after us.
So we do, as a community, needto come together, bring more into

(41:45):
the fold, increase our numbers.
Larger numbers, stronger voice,and then everybody's forced to
listen to the larger numbers.
Because everybody just listens to theloudest voice in the room, unfortunately.

I agree with that, and I agree that people should realize the death
by a thousand cuts, like you say there.
Because if you look at like, go backa few years, Paul Martin, he's like,
I'm not going to touch your guns.
I'm not going to doanything with your guns.
A second he gets in, all right,let's ban all the handguns.
And he got so much pushback onthat and it fell flat on its face.

(42:18):
Trudeau comes in and says, death bya thousand cuts, camel in the tent.
Please sir, it's so cold outside.
Can I just put my hoof inside your tent?
And before you know it, you're sleepingoutside and your camel's on the inside.
And that's how this goes.
I'm not a hundred percent sure.
That trying to organize the, uh, thehunting community and the firearms
community is the best option.

(42:41):
Like if the entire firearms community, theentire hunting community got up and they
started saying, here's what's going on.
And they're fighting with logic.
Uh, again, we find ourself inthat situation where you're trying
to fight emotion with logic.
I think.
You've already, arguments alreadybeen framed in a way where
you're fighting a losing battle.

(43:02):
I think the argument needs to be framed,reframed a little bit differently, such
as, if they can come for this from you,why couldn't they come for that for you?
And I see Canadian Federation ofIndependent Businesses doing that, the
CFIB, and they're looking at propertyrights as opposed to, oh, if they take
your handguns or your shotguns or yourrifles, they're saying, Well, if they

(43:22):
can arbitrarily come in and say, youcan't have this through ordering counsel
through no legislative, uh, voting, no,no due process, what's to stop them from
doing something similar when it comes toyour bank account, when it comes to your
business, when it comes to your house.
And I think the voice, thenumbers that you need to come
from more of that visceral emotionwhere all the people are like.

(43:44):
In the gun community, I don't ownhandguns, it doesn't bother me,
or the non hunters and the nonfirers people, that's you, that's
you guys, how does that affect me?
Well, the amount of money it costs onthese, and I'm going to do air quotes
here for people listening, the buyback,which is, it's just confiscation.
Yeah,

Sean Zubor (44:01):
exactly.

Like Blaine said last night, how do you buy back
something that you've never owned?
Yeah.
I think that it needs to be a strategicreframing of what's going on and
putting a spotlight on the, the generalmalfeasance of government and how
they're moving forward to, to take,uh, rights to take property or to,

(44:22):
to take the steps that they're doing.
I, I think that would be

Sean Zubor (44:26):
I think that would work.
I think it's going to bea two pronged approach.
I think both sides, the reality is, isif we have inner fighting or we're not
working together as a hunting shootingcommunity, you know, we're all on
the same side and where we're going.
I think that hurts us one particularway because you know how it is.
If you look at any type of,uh, Look at how wars are run.

(44:48):
First thing you're trying todo is separate, you know, the
good from the bad within people.
You're trying to, um, everybody hates touse COVID, but you said as an example,
uh, during COVID, it doesn't matter if youbelieve in it, don't believe in it, think
it kills people, don't think it killspeople, the vaccine, whatever it is, how
the government villainized people, in mypersonal opinion, was completely wrong.

(45:12):
Right.
And that's, you see families thathave completely stopped talking to
each other that have like disownedeach other that because one's like
an anti vaxxer, one's a vaxxer.
I won't even use anti vaxxer, justdidn't believe in that particular
one or whatever the case is.
So it's a very, very powerfultool to split communities.
With certain beliefs, right?

(45:33):
So I feel like if our community comestogether and we realize that we're
all fighting the same fight, A. B, ifwe realize the fact that, and Joe hit
it on the nail, you look at all theseconservation, or sorry, not, they're not
conservation groups, all these groupsthat are trying to say get rid of the bear
hunt or get rid of, at the end of the day,you look at their, their motivation at

(45:54):
the end, It is to eliminate all hunting.
You look at any of these people thatare trying to get rid of any kind
of guns, uh, or, you know, the ARsto start with or whatever it may be.
Their motivation in the very endis to eliminate all firearms.
It is not.
This is all just a starting point.
We all really have to realize thatif we don't fight back now, and

(46:14):
that is really what you're doing.
If we don't come together as a force,I think we're going to be, uh, we're
going to have, we won't have anythingleft to fight for because everything.
And, and Joe, you said this as well aslike, I mean, it's death by a thousand
cuts, really what it is is just creatingnormalization, like I've already heard
people, well, you know, I've given up.
I'm not going to get myarrow back or I've given up.
I'm like, it's gone.

(46:34):
Well.
The reality is if you give that up,right, and you have that mentality
that it's given up, you will neverget it back because now you're just
focused on fighting what you'regoing to still be able to keep now
instead of moving back into theretrospective where we were, right?
So, I, I, I think it's, it's,uh, it's a challenging time.
Luckily, I think we're in theright direction in a lot of cases.

(46:57):
Excuse me, but I think a third prongattempt too, and I think this is like,
you guys are doing an incredibly greatjob about this and, you know, the Joe
Rogans of the world and so on and soforth, is, I think, bringing other people
into the scope of the outdoors, right?
Getting them to understand.
People that camp, people that, um, I thinka massive, massive thing that we really

(47:19):
need to focus on is bringing more womeninto, into our activities or sports or
shooting or, or hunting or, you know,getting them involved, understanding
how much of a family practice this is,you know, like getting kids involved.
Bringing people that are outside ofour community to go fire a gun and
realize that, Hey, the gun didn't jumpoff the table and start killing people.
You know what I mean?

(47:40):
And we just had some psychos once ina blue moon that did things right.
So I think there's a lot of opportunity tokind of bring that awareness and having.
Um, you know, for lack of a better word,these celebrities or having people that
are out there voicing their opinions loudand clear and speaking well and showing by
action, leading by example, I think theseare ways that we can definitely change the

(48:02):
tide and you're seeing it in the states.
You're seeing it here in a lot of casesin Alberta and so on and so forth.
I think we need to keep pressing.
My worry is, is we do bringanother government in.
That will be a good government.
And all of a sudden we layoff, lay off the gas and we're
like, Oh, we're good now.
And then we set ourselves up for sure.
It's for another Trudeauand whenever years,

Joe Eppele (48:24):
yeah, I don't think the fights are going to go anywhere
regardless of what happens.
And, and, um, you know, we have to keepour guard up, but I definitely, yeah,
I think you guys both made phenomenalpoints there, Travis, to your point, um,
you know, reef using the exact reframeit and applying it to something else.
And then using that as a reallygood tool of how we could pull

(48:45):
more into the fold and educate.
When it comes to situations, like theones we're talking about, it's a very
polarizing argument, but the big thingis the majority of society, like, yes,
maybe 10, 15, 20 percent sit at eitherend and they're going, okay, what do
we do with this 8, 60 to 80 percent ofthe population that's in the middle?
How do we reach them?

(49:05):
And for us, sometimes we justspeak our side and hope that
people will understand it.
But a lot of those people in the middlewho don't hunt, who don't have guns,
who don't see it, they're like, well,I live in, you know, um, City center.
I don't see these things.
Why would you need to hunt?
Why would you need to?
Because like we talked about earlier,vast majority of people have never gone
north past to these really wild places.

(49:25):
They don't see grizzlybears on a daily basis.
They don't see wolves.
They don't see what's actuallyhappening on the, on the landscape.
Finding a way to reach them and showingthem that we're not these villains like
Certain groups are really trying to makeus out to be so saying well, this is why
we're actually frustrated So, you knoweducating somebody with a piece and you
know, could you imagine you're watchinga video and it talks about you know What

(49:48):
would you do if one day you woke up andsomeone told you something about a vehicle
or your property or your right for?
Some sort of other freedom or uh, youknow, and then this was all done With
no education, there's no logic behindthe decisions and you, you structured
it that way, people's hair on theirback would stand up and they go, how
could something like that happen?
And you go, well, that is what'sbeen happening here and then, and

(50:10):
then bring them in all of a suddenpeople might start paying attention.
So, and then bring them in andthen bring them as a part of this
unified society of everybody else.
And then that voice grows.
So I think both pieces of that can cometogether and yeah, cause right now it's
one of those challenging things is.
I feel like the hunting society, theshooting society, has always rested on
historically of, you know, the actionsspeak louder than words, but like the

(50:35):
silent type, this is the way it's been,this is the way it should always be.
Because we talk about theheritage, we talk about this is
what's always been happening.
But that, I don't think that dialogue,that story is serving us as well
as it used to, and it's changing.
So I think finding ways to change ourstory, to change how we bring other
people into the fold is very important.

I think you're bang on.
I don't think, um, I don't think settingyourself up to fight somebody's emotional
act, uh, Accusations is putting yourselfin the, in the best possible position.
And there are other things that aregoing on in society right now that
people can piggyback on if they'retrying to have another side understand

(51:18):
sort of their position, they canpiggyback on the local food movement.
Right.
And, uh, they understand food.
They might not understand hunting,but they understand food and
where that food comes from.
Maybe there's a segue in.
How about the indigenous peopleout there as hunting and fishing
as a part of a way of life?
You're going to tell them that theyshouldn't be able to hunt anymore.
And if you wouldn't say that, whywould you say that to another group?

(51:40):
Like, are you racist?
Right?
It's, I mean, the same sort of logiccould be used back and forth, but
I think really, and you're right.
There's always going to be thefew percent that are one side,
few percent the other side.
And most of the people in themiddle, they just don't care.
They're, they're not even, it's not evenon their radar, but even if you take
those ardent opposition on either side,you'll probably find that you have more

(52:02):
similarities than you do have differences.
That you don't like guns because you'vebeen negatively affected by it, or you've
read about things in the news wherepeople have been negatively affected,
so you want to get rid of them all.
Well, guess what?
The gun people over here, they don't likethis stuff they're seeing in the news and
they don't want to be negatively affected.
But if we get rid of it all,does that mean that we're

(52:23):
going to stop all gun violence?
Well, no.
What's the end objective?
We want to have a safe society.
If we get rid of all hunting,what's that going to mean?
Well, we're no longer going to haveconservation groups that actually
look after and manage these animals.
And we have things forgenerations to come.
Do you want animals forgenerations to come?
Yes.
Well, maybe we should reframehow we're looking at that.

(52:43):
And I think if we start lookingat those similarities that we have
and picking away at those, we mighthave a different conversation.
Because the second we're onthese polar sides, I don't think
either side really gets anywhere.

Sean Zubor (52:56):
Let me ask you guys a question then on this portion.
Um, because I agree witheverything you guys are saying.
You would.
Definitely.
We're on the same side.
Um.
My question to you, I guess, is,as you mentioned, you know, like
the 10 percent on each side, theseextremists on both sides, right?
I think over the last, and I thinkthis is one of the reasons why we're

(53:18):
actually starting to see a shiftpolitically and all these other things
is because the 10%, I'll just call itout as the left, let's just say the
extreme left, has been so loud and hasbeen basically shaming everybody else.
You know, outside the rest of the90 percent that they've been shaming
their way into getting things done.
How do how do we?

(53:41):
All of these things we talk about,bringing people into the community, uh,
showing them, for example, like, hey,you may have nothing to do with guns,
but, uh, that car, you know, why do youhave to have a thousand horsepower car?
You know, you could kill a bunchof people and you're taking way too
much fuel and so on and so forth.
Like, we're gonna confiscatethat because nobody needs that.
Just like nobody needs a semiautomatic weapon, for example.

(54:01):
And we're using these types of things.
How do we get our voice outthere, like the 1 percent of the
extreme left have over the years?

I don't think you do.

Sean Zubor (54:11):
No?

No.
I, I think, obviously we need groups.
We need people who will havethat voice and who carry it out.
My personal opinion is that you starteducating people on, uh, how many
media can manipulate, how peoplecan manipulate facts or outright
lie and things that we can look for.

Sean Zubor (54:30):
Sorry, sorry, sorry to interrupt you.
So, but how do you educate them?
How do you get that out there?
What do you think?
And to a better question, because youknow, there's three of us that are
on social media quite a bit and we doour things, but I'm not really a hunt,
like the hunting community per se.
I love you guys.
I love Watchmen.
I'm more of a fan boy than anything.
So, but you guys, this is your living.
Like you guys literally workand breathe in, in the hunting

(54:53):
industry, outdoor industry.
Um, how does, how does the regularaverage person that's here?
Right?
Or maybe that's not who we're saying,but the person that's in there, how
do they get out and communicate andsay these things and educate and
like, what, if somebody is listeningto this today, what should they do?
Or, I'm not, we're obviouslynot telling them what to do, but

(55:13):
at the end of the day, what canthey do to make a difference?

I, I think educating ourselves personally about how arguments
are formed on how media can be manipulatedand being able to call out blatant lies
when we see it and point to Why that is.
I mean, Noam Chomsky has writtena number of books on just the
power of media manipulation.
I think he's actually got amasterclass right now through

(55:36):
that, that whole masterclass thing.
But I think if people are able to startspotting out, well, hold on a second,
that argument doesn't hold water.
Like if you have a point, let'smake your point, as opposed
to trying to argue the point.
Because the second you find yourselfarguing the point, and you're already
in a position, let's say it's anemotional point, you're, you're

(55:56):
Fighting against the flow of water.
So if you can at least Uh,through your own discourse, start
understanding how, uh, a differentperspective of the argument.
Like, hold on a second, let's talk.
What is it you're tryingto actually get at?
Or why would you say thatwhen, rather than pointing to
facts, use their same argument?

(56:16):
In the same way that, like, when COVIDhappened, like you point out there,
people would talk in hushed tones.
They wouldn't want it,like It was really weird.
I would have podcastsif people be off air.
Like I wanted to say this, but Icouldn't because I'd be canceled.
And you talk about, and you say theleft, the extreme left, but there has
been a very effective manipulationthrough media and through social media

(56:38):
through cancel culture in the past.
And I think the zeitgeist now is.
There is a flavor for, uh, that to stop.
People are not going to be bullied throughDEI and saying, Well, you don't agree with
this diversity, equity, inclusion thing.
So you must be a racist.
You must be a Nazi, right?
I think that's where the, um, Idon't think we lose messaging on

(57:03):
what we think is factually correct.
But I think we have to be moreadept at being able to Uh, reframe
an argument or point out in a waythat will humiliate in the same way
that you would be humiliated, right?
Just point out the ludicrous of it.

Joe Eppele (57:20):
I'm trying to think of anything I would add
on top of what you just said.
I think you, you really touchedon everything well there.
Um, yeah, and I think the other thing isjust, I mean, especially on social media,
everybody's first reaction is to attackand emotionally attack and, and, you know,
take a breath and understand sometimes.
Like people are on there they'rebaiting you and they want you to step

(57:42):
in and sometimes the first reaction thefirst thing you want to type in there
and say is Almost gonna prove theirpoint and then you know Unvalidate
anything you're gonna say after that.
So so taking that step and goingI always Use a term, you know
used to play professional sports.

Did you

Joe Eppele (58:01):
really once upon a time?
Yeah, I was really good at badminton
And I always say there's adifference between locker room
talk and the press conference talk.
And understand that these socialplatforms, a lot of people go, well it's
a social platform, I want to be ableto say whatever I'm supposed to say.
Well no, it's a social platform, yes.

(58:22):
Everything that we're puttingon these social platforms is
going to be used against us.
Like it's, like when someone'sgetting arrested, you know, anything
you say can and will be usedagainst you in the court of law.
It's the same thing.
You can have your, your conversationsabout certain things and speak in a
certain tone amongst the boys, amongstyour hunt group, whatever it is, but
when you're going on social media,understand, a lot of the time I try and,

(58:46):
and I, don't get me wrong, I don't getit perfect all the time, I make a lot of
mistakes, understand that you're You'renot always when I speak or respond to
somebody, I'm not even thinking, howis this person going to react to it?
I go, everybody that reads this,whose side are they going to take?
And if you get involved too emotionallyand too aggressive and you're just, you
know, start name calling things like that.

(59:08):
Everybody's going to go, wow, thisguy is this redneck idiot, right?
Like that's what they're going to think.
Wow.
This person really, you know, caught him.
Whereas.
You know, every now and then you seethe response, some responses, you
know, you're just not going to win.
And I'll be honest, I block alot of people like you're gone.
Like I don't have time for youbecause this isn't nothing positive
is going to come from this.
But if someone's open to dialogue, I'llcommunicate with them, even if I know

(59:30):
I'm not going to convince them, but I,okay, well, maybe some other people that
they know are going to check this out.
And then they're going to go, wow,this guy actually made a good point.

So you comport yourself,

Joe Eppele (59:38):
right?
So, so, so that sometimes is a way to win.
Um, but yeah, you're not goingto win all those arguments.
You're not going to, you'renot going to win them.
I, and oddly enough, sometimesI have had one of the most
frustrating things I have come up.
Actually is at the end of someof these dialogues, people go.
Okay, but I'm not talking about you.
You're one of the good ones.
And we'll bring, we'll bring this fullcircle moment here is like we've all

(01:00:01):
been here at this venue all weekend andyou walk around every person in this
building is one of the good ones becausethe best people you will ever meet,
you meet through the outdoors, right?
Because it just brings, it bringsthe best out in so many people.

Sean Zubor (01:00:14):
So.

Joe Eppele (01:00:15):
Um, I just, I hate that when people go, yeah,
but I'm not talking about you.
I'm talking about the rest of them.
I'm like, but the rest of them are justlike me, you know, maybe some people
don't approach it with the same angle,but like when you dig down, you sit
down and talk with anybody here thisweekend, everybody's the same inside.
Right.
So, so it's, yeah, I hate that.
Yeah.
But if everybody can kind of dothat and everybody can show them

(01:00:37):
that we're all one of the good ones.
We'll start winning some of that argument.

I like that.
I love it.
Okay, last question, because we'realready stretching time here.
Hold

Travis Bader (01:00:45):
on, I got one point I okay, sorry, sorry, sorry.
The answer to the question.
Okay, alright, perfect.
I, I like, uh, what, what Joe'ssaying about writing it down, if
someone would read it at a later date.
I always try and write things downin a way, if a trier of fact in
the future had to look at this andweigh it out simply on what they see
here, what would their opinion be?

(01:01:05):
And I find oftentimes when I'm engagingin something, whether it's social
media or wherever there's an initialemotional response, they're wrong.
I'm right.
I know I'm right.
I know they're wrong.
However.
There's a lot of power to askingquestions because there has been once
or twice, maybe, where I was mistakenand I misunderstood what was going on.

(01:01:27):
And a lot of powerful, um, statementscan be made through asking a question
and it leaves you with some leewayto be able to retreat and understand.
And I think that's what people shouldbe seeking to do is to understand
each other prior to seeking to.
Prove your point, because if I canunderstand you and hopefully we

(01:01:48):
can then reach a point where youcan understand me, we'll probably
find pretty similar where we're at.

Some kind of common ground.
It's funny that you say that in sales.
Yeah, that's um, because I can bea complete hothead and I've said a
lot of stupid stuff on social mediaway too much, um, just be real.
And, uh, yeah, I have a lot of followers.
I've lost a lot of followers.
I've lost clients, everything.
And it's because, like And I think thisis something that I've learned over

(01:02:14):
time is I get very emotional over thisas well, because I, I feel deep down.
It's right.
I feel like somebody stealing somethingfrom me, you know, so there's a
lot of things, especially somebodystealing something from me that
would be crying that I'm stealingsomething from them of that wouldn't
even be significance type deal.
Right?
So, um, but I hear everything youguys are saying, and I've been, I'm
like, well, Hey, why don't I justapply what I do in sales, which is.

That's a good point.

Basically just questions, you know, I'm, I'm always trying to
find somebody's motivation on, youknow, what, why they're building
this tower, what's the dream, wherethey're going, etc. And it's the
same thing when you can ask somebodythat has a differentiating opinion to
you on what makes you feel that way.
What made you, what broughtyou to this decision?
You start asking these questions.
A lot of times they can'teven answer themselves.

(01:03:00):
Right?
So it brings it to the forefrontthat it is more or less just a
bias, not an actual reason why.
And then you can starthaving a conversation, right?
So it's funny that you mentionedthis over the last couple of years.
I've learned to bite my tongue a bitand Joey hit around the fort and it's
like, okay, no, not supposed to say that.
Uh, definitely get a ban for that one.
And then, uh, yeah, just think itthrough and then just start with

(01:03:21):
the question process is huge.
Okay.
On a lighter tone.
Last question.
What's your favorite animal to hunt?
Are

we starting a new podcast?
That is a big one.
Um, you know what, the one Ialways go back to personally,
um, blacktail, blacktail deer.
And for me, it's just that nostalgic hunt.
Um, it's what I grew up doing.
I grew up huntingblacktail with my father.
That's what originally, I mean,grouse and blacktail is what I'd

(01:03:51):
fell in love with as a child.
So there's that nostalgic side to it.
And it's that one hunt that.
It still makes me feel like that kidagain, where I make the dumbest decisions.
And afterwards I look back and Igo, why the heck did I do that?
Because it still gets me so fluttered.
Whereas some of the otherhunts, don't get me wrong.
I make, I make mistakes on every huntthat happens, but with Blacktail, it

(01:04:14):
just, it always brings me right backinto that childhood memory and just.
Because let's be honest, blacktailhunting, if you're doing it right, a
lot of the time, it's the nastiest,rainiest, most miserable day.
And half the time I'm out there, I'mlike, why do I love this so much?
I, I hate that I love it somuch, but that's what it is.
It's that nostalgic hunt for me.
That's, that's what brings it back.
That, and talking about that,uh, type two verging on the

(01:04:35):
side of type three kind of hunt.
The whole part leading up to, Imean, cause I injured that deer.
And then it was over a 24 hourrecovery process and tracking it down.
And finishing the job

rating or something too.
Right.
If I remember right, it looked wet.
It

was snowing at the point of the first shot wounded the animal.
I thought it was a misswounded the animal found blood.
The rain turned to snow.
I had two hours before darktracked it as far as I could.
That night didn't recover it inmy mind, thought it wasn't a fatal
injury, but there's, there's awhole bunch to that again, talk
about the nostalgic part of it.
It was my father's birthday and thatthe hunt hadn't been going well or

(01:05:12):
would have been my father's birthday.
And, uh, yeah, I saw that buck and whenI found out when it was a miss, I went,
you know what, dad, I let you down.
But then when I found out I injured it, itwas just like this weight really letting
him down just made it that much heavier.
So then 24 hours later or whateverit was having it all come together.
Um, and that's a hunt that'sgoing to be tough to top for me.

(01:05:32):
And, uh, yeah, that, thatwas a beautiful buck though.
And then the way it finished with thetumble into the, over the 80, a hundred
foot cliff into the river bottom.
And

that's what I was going to creak in a river.
Yeah, it was a mess.

There's a lot to that one, but again, that would have to be the
start of a new podcast if I done that

one.

All right, boss.
Moose, uh, moose, spring bear.
I love spring bear, but somethingabout moose is giant animals that
are just ghosts in the forest andbeing able to call them in working
in their, uh, their habitat.
It's, um, it's always beena special hunt for me.
And then, I don't know, spring bear.
There's something about the spring bear,being out in the warmer weather and, uh,

(01:06:11):
family, um, I, I enjoy those as well.
You?

So I would say, I would say I don't know.
There's a couple of times.
I don't know.
This is my question.
I'm not even answering it well, but, um,I, I love sheep hunting cause it's an
adventure and you know, I did last year, Idid a couple of ultra marathons, a hundred
kilometer one and all this other stuffand I just like pushing myself and you

(01:06:37):
just feel this accomplishment afterwards.
And it's just, I feel like I'm indifferent places I've never seen before.
So I would say for the overallchallenge, it would be, it would
be a sheep hunter, a goat hunt.
Um, But it's not something Icould do more than once a year.
You know what I mean?
Like some of these guys, theseyoung guys I'm talking to, I'm
going three sheep hunts next year.
But, uh, but really, I think last year,my favorite hunt to date, uh, and I have

(01:07:02):
some really great ones with my dad too,but I think it's bringing Hunter, my, my
oldest out, and him shooting his firstcouple grouse with a Pelican and a 410.
It's crazy.
Like when I, um, I used to compete,uh, as you guys know, in MMA and
Jiu Jitsu and so on and so forth.
And there were, it was always awesome.
You know, fighting in front of thousandsof people is really cool, but nothing

(01:07:23):
replaces like watching some of mystudents that were 15 years old when
the Pan Ams and stuff like you justget this, uh, I don't know, you're, you
feel like you're doing the right thing.
You know, when you're out there hunting,it's sometimes like, especially on a
sheep hunt where you're gone for a coupleof weeks, it can be a. A selfish moment,
you know, you like, you feel like thatkind of like what you're talking about,
Joe, like you're leaving your family,you're leaving all these other things.

(01:07:43):
I mean, even though it's a must and it'ssomething that's really good for you.
And I think you bring it backto your family, tenfold and your
friends and so on and so forth.
But yeah, I think like watching itpass down in the generation, I think
it's, it's yeah, huge for me for sure.
No, there's something

special in that passing of the torch and passing that
tradition on and everything like that.
I mean, we go back to our huntingheritage conversation, but yeah, I
mean, you're at a much different stage.
My boys are going to be a few yearsbefore they can run around, especially
on their own walkers three, why it'sa month old, um, but Walker already
has a huge passion for the outdoors.
He loves getting out there andI'm going to continually push him.

(01:08:20):
And, and, and I think it'ssomething special too.
It's every.
You know, father, parents dream is thattheir Children will want to go into it.
And for me, it's not so much that I wanthim to be a driven, motivated hunter.
I just want him to learn all the lessonsand the values that I lost that I
learned through my experiences out there.
It teaches you so much about perseverance,about trials and tribulations,

(01:08:42):
about doing everything right.
And stuff's still not working out.
Um, and just.
You know, it, it teaches you allof those lessons, those values
being prepared, responsibility.
Um, so, so that's what I really wantto be able to hand on down to them.
So, I mean, when you were talkingabout that, like it literally gives me
goosebumps thinking about when I'm atthe age where I get to see those boys
doing the, oh man, it's, that's a dream.
It's

amazing.
And I have my youngest, Jack.
He's, uh, he's turning seven.
He's there too.
And he's just, yeah, it is, itis pretty, uh, watching them play
with the fire and all these, yeah,it brings back memories as a kid.
It's, it's been huge for sure.
Okay.
Well, before we wrap it up, even thoughI think this is gonna be your podcast,

(01:09:24):
before we wrap it up, causewe are in this amazing place.
And a lot of people have been saying this.
Joe, quick question.
How do they become a member?
Um, what are like a coupleof the different levels?
What, what should they be doing?
I mean, might as well, we're here.
Let's, let's promote.
First

and foremost, I mean, yeah, if you're here, obviously
there'll be members walking around.
People can get signed up.
If you're not here physicallyand those at home watching,
just go and watch Huge Society.
Uh, vc.
com, I believe is the website we canmaybe throw it on the, and there'll be
drop downs and you can talk about allthe various different, uh, memberships.
Obviously there's, there'sindividual memberships, there's
annual memberships, and thenthere's, um, lifetime memberships.

(01:10:01):
And then you can get into thetiers of the lifetime memberships.
Um, after your original lifetimemembership, there's actually
opportunities to get charitable taxreceipts as well, which is a big driver.
Um, and then a new one we launchedlast year is the, the half
curl membership, which is for.
It's it's a lifetime membership for ourmembers under 18 and it's a that's a 500
membership But then you're a lifetimemember up until your 18th birthday Don

(01:10:25):
Stevens were sitting across from his boothright now All of our half curl members
were presented with a beautiful plaqueand a custom made knife from Don Stevens
So they all get that it's and again, it'stalking about, you know passing the torch.
We're hoping that You know, creatingthese special events, there's gonna
be special hunts drawn just for ouryouth being able to, you know, prizes,
raffles, everything that, and thenthroughout the year, we're gonna have

(01:10:46):
different events for our youth as well.
Um, but create that healthy funnelwhere we bring people up in this
culture and show that it really is.
Uh, family environment.
It's a community.
There's so much more to it.
So, so that's a big thing.
But yeah, everything is available online.
Go on the website, check it out.
Um, and, and it's not one of those thingswhere you have to have a ton of money

(01:11:08):
to have an impact, you know, um, you cansign up for just a one year membership.
And I was, I did, I think, I thinktwo or three just one year memberships
before I decided to be a life member.
And now I'm a monarch.
So I took a few steps after that.
And now both my boys.
Our half curl members.
And it's just one of those thingswhere it's a group that I started on
the outside and I saw the dollars thatI put in directly trans transition to

(01:11:33):
translate into boots on the ground.
And then as I started going to theAGMs and started to go to these
things, you really do see, like,it's not like some of those other
organizations where 20 cents on thedollar actually makes it to the cause.
So, so I started feelingbetter and better about it.
And it's like, okay, wellI'm putting money there.
I want to put my time there.
And it's, it's just one of thosecommunities where once you.
Get your toe in the door.
You don't want to leave and you wantto do more, become more involved.

(01:11:55):
You want to be a part ofit more and more and more.
And, uh, that's, so just get started.
Get online.
Sign up for just a year membership.
Come down, check it out,see what it's all about.
And it's just one of those places thatyou look forward to being every year.

To your point about toe in the door there, every year I
do the 60 bucks or whatever it is.
So today my wife and I gotthe, uh, lifetime membership.
You put that challenge out yesterday.
Of course, kind of cheateda little bit with, uh, with
Wyatt there, but that's good.
That's good.
It was a good challenge for everyone.
And that, uh, the half curl,when they turn 18, they get a

(01:12:31):
lifetime membership at half price.

So the 500 fee of the half curl membership is basically
your deposit on your life member.
So then once you get to 18, there'llbe a coming of age ceremony.
You'll be notified.
This can be a year,there'll be a presentation.
They go to go up on stage and theyjust pay the remaining balance.
And then they're a member for life.
And you had access to all thoseresources, all of those opportunities.

(01:12:55):
I mean, we're giving away aguided whitetail hunt, and there's
only, I think, less than 20members right now that qualify.
Both of my sons don't qualify forthat hunt because they're under 10.
It's only the 10 to 18 year olds.
And those hunt opportunities are onlygoing to get better year after year.
So if you're going to sign up every,you're going to qualify for that every
year from now until your 18th birthday.
And it's, yeah, there's some great things.
And I do want to saythat was my challenge.

(01:13:16):
I issued Wyatt was yes.
My I've checked that box.
My challenge to myself to bring onemember into the fold is on top of that.
So that did not include Wyatt,
but,

um, second, you said it, I leaned over beside
me, I said, He's got an easy one.
All he's got to do is get Wyatt up there.
He's got it set, and then he mentioned.

Yeah, and the other thing worth mentioning as well in talking
about finance is obviously it's notalways easy to do the full commitment.
Yes, year after year,there's the annual ones.
If you want to get into alifetime, there's payment plans.
So you can set it up on monthlyplans or whatever it is.
It doesn't have to be chipped away.
And then once you're a lifemember, you can chip away to
your different stages of Monarch.
Year after year, there'sdifferent ways to contribute.
It doesn't have to be a one time purchase.

(01:13:58):
It doesn't have to be that huge hit.
You can, you can stagger it outthroughout the year for sure.

And I'll throw this out there too, because I'm
sure this is going to come up.
What if I don't hunt sheep?
Um, what if I don't hunt goats?
What if I'm not a mountainhunter, et cetera?
Um, I'm going to throw it.
This is just.
personal anecdotal stuff.
So I was a lifetime member before I everwent on my first sheep hunt or right
around the same time, give or take.

(01:14:22):
And I can tell you one thing, and I'mobviously, it's an amazing thing and
the support system for, um, for ourwildlife in and of itself, but Hey,
it's difficult to find people thatwant to actually do sheep hunting.
It's difficult to find peoplethat want to show you the way or
learn from or so on and so forth.
And I can tell you here.

(01:14:43):
You hang out here, you become partof the society you're going to meet.
I'm not saying they're going to giveyou all their honey holes, but, um,
you're going to meet people that are,you know, you can become friends with,
go on sheep hunts, build that community.
You can actually learn how to hunt.
I mean, how many, uh, huntinguniversity things did we have in
the last couple of days, like 30or 40 of them still go exactly.

(01:15:03):
Right.
So.
If you're looking like the price ofadmission to learn how to hunt these
amazing, uh, uh, animals and to overallbe a part of the community that will
help you teach and learn and maybefind that hunting partner that you
need that will actually put thoseboots on and head up the mountain is
an amazing place to do it for sureworth every penny just on that alone to

add on top of that, you said, you know, for individuals that
want to get into hunting, but evenindividuals that don't intend to
hunt this, these funds go towards.
Yeah.
Habitat restoration towards diseaseprevention, education, things like that.
That's what this money's going towards.
One of those organizations, it's themoney directly goes to boots on the
ground efforts to making sure thatour landscape have these wild animals

(01:15:45):
on them for the future generations.
So even if you don't intend to hunt,but you just love the outdoors, it's
a phenomenal organization to getinvolved with on that basis alone.
And then down the road, yes, maybe oneday you'll get pulled into the fold
and looped into going on a hunt or havean opportunity, but it's, you don't
have to be a hunter to come here andfeel good about being here and feel
good about what your money's doing.

(01:16:06):
Right.
So.

Awesome.
Well said.
I think we, uh, call it a up there.
Yeah.

Thanks boys.

It's been great.

Thanks for having me.

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