Surviving Alone: The Wilderness Philosopher Who Hunted Wolverine with a Hatchet

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Travis Bader (00:12):
Before we dive into this episode, I want to share
something that's been on my mind.
The outdoors doesn't reveal who you are.
It reveals who you pretend to be.
I've been thinking a lot about howeasily we can fool ourselves with
titles, with gear, with comfort,but when you're out there alone in

(00:33):
the quiet, none of that matters.
You're left with the truth andthe truth can be uncomfortable.
Or it can be the most freeing thingin the world, and that's why I was
so excited to sit down with Jordan.
He's someone who's gonethrough that kind of truth.
He didn't just survive alone, he lived it.
He leaned into solitude, into discomfort,into stillness, and came out the

(00:57):
other side with something deeper.
In this conversation, we talksurvival, family, faith, mindset,
all of the stuff you'd expect.
But what struck me themost was his humility.
Jordan doesn't posture, he doesn't preach.
He just shares his experienceand lets it speak for itself.

(01:17):
That's something I respect a lot.
If this kind of conversation resonateswith you, if you're someone who's
been craving more than just surfacelevel content, I'll give you a heads
up on something we've been working on.
The Silver Core Club isabout to get a big upgrade.
We're building a space for deeper dives.

(01:38):
Practical insights, training, tips behindthe scenes, thoughts and stories that
don't always make it into the public feed.
It's not ready yet, but it's coming.
And if you are the kind of person whovalues growth, capability, and connection,
I think you're gonna want to be there.
Now let's get on with the podcast.

(01:59):
I'm joined today by a man who's rodewith nomadic reindeer herders in Siberia,
hunted Wolverines with a hatchet, andbecame a household name after outlasting
every other contestant in the gruelingArctic on the survival show alone.
He's part philosopher, partfrontiersman, and all heart.
A man who didn't just survive the wild,but found peace and clarity in it.

(02:21):
Whether he is teaching others toreconnect with nature or exploring
life's deeper questions, his insightsare raw, real, and profoundly human.
Welcome to the Silver CorpPodcast, Jordan Jonas.

Jordan Jonas (02:34):
Well, thanks.
Appreciate the kind introduction.

Hey, I figured my job's done.
I can sit back.
Yeah, and you can be all talking now.

Stroked my ego for a little while.

You're the very first person I've ever had who's done
the podcast out in the woods withbeautiful bull pines, Ponderosa pines.
Man, that's awesome.

Springtime.
It's hard to sit inside right now, soI'm glad the connection's good enough.

Oh yeah, no, the connection's.
Awesome.
Are you just working off of like cell cellservice or is this like a Starling thing?
Yeah, it's

just cell service, so good deal.

Oh, I love it.
Well, a lot of peoplealready know who you are.
Um, some people don't.
Uh, I've actually had the opportunityto meet with one of your compatriots
on season six alumni, Nikki Van.
Oh, cool.
Well, she's been on the podcastand she's a real Oh yeah.

(03:28):
She's a real cool cat.
And she, I like her.
She's fun.
Yeah.
Oh, she's so fun.
And her positivity andher mindset is on point.
And, uh, you know, she, she recentlyreached out and she says, Trav, uh,
I'm involved with this other Fox show.
They've asked me to bea consultant for it.
Um, or she didn't say it was a Fox show.

(03:48):
I think it was all hushhush and top secret.
Yeah.
Some kind of show.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm involved with this otherkind of show, um, but there's
gonna be like a hunting portion andcontingent maybe, and like, can you
come on and help out the contestants?
And I'm like, I. Sure.
I know nothing about this Hollywood thing.
Right, right.
But they, but she, um, had me come up,introduced me to the crew, turned out it

(04:09):
was Sylvester Stallone's Balboa Group andit was this Fox show called Extracted.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So we went up to Whistler and they bringthese contestants in one at a time,
and we had to give 'em training andtesting and I mean, like, usually we
do training as a group, but these guyscouldn't see each other and Oh, yeah.
Got me.
Megan hin, she's a cool cat aswell, who's a British survivalist.

(04:32):
So interesting world that you kinda rollin with these other people who just,
just pursue their passion and they justend up finding these opportunities.
Like, like what you've had.

Yeah.
For all our love of the, you know,like the, some of the things we've
lost touch with in the modern world.
It's amazing the opportunitiesthat it provides.
Yeah.
Well, why do you think that is?
What's that?
Why do you think that is?
Why is it that people are deeply cravingOh, connect So much easier to connect
with people around the world who, youknow, you have a skill or an ability and

(05:05):
there's people that have a desire to, youknow, learn from you or whatever, and it
just broadens your net so much more thanyou could a hundred years ago or 10 years

years.
Yeah, no kidding.

It's pretty wild.
It's, it's, it's neat to appreciate,you know, the, the blessing we have
in, in our modern world right now,as much as there are to overcome.
But, uh, yeah, it's, that's pretty great.
I almost, I wondered that sometimeswhen I was living with the
natives out there, uh, in Siberia.

(05:38):
Long story, we get there.
It's, we almost live in a time whereyou can have the best of both worlds
if you, if you play your cards right.
You know, if you kind of, we've lost a lotof, some of the older, the lessons that
come in a in a more rural rural or Sure.

(06:02):
But we've, um, gained a lot ofopportunity and security at the same time.
So the ability to combine thoseis pretty great if you can.

Yeah.
And you know, with the internet andeverything, we've got the access to be
able to learn all of these things thatpeople in back in the day wouldn't,
they wouldn't have that ability.
Oh

yeah.
But,

but the issue is, I think, is that we're so overloaded with
information that it comes in, it comesout and people are kind of dilettante
into what they kinda get into, and.
Absolutely.
That's where somebody likeyourself is a big value.
Uh, people can go to your Instagramand check you out on hobo, jordo,

(06:43):
we'll put, we'll put links intothe, uh, the description here.
But you're essentiallyan information concierge.
They can view things through your eyes.
All this info comes in and, but you'reout there living it and you're doing
it and they say, huh, it works for him.
Maybe I'm gonna give it a shot.

Yeah, absolutely.
Trying to reshuffle a little bit.
So you do have a little bit moremental space in what is a Yeah,
an information overload world.
No time.
You know, we're constantly distractedand that's very tangible, so, uh, you
almost have to force your hand at times.
I actually appreciate that about headingup in the wilderness and getting outdoors.

(07:25):
I somewhat dread when.
Starling's gonna be universally, youknow, available, but you almost have
to force yourself into situationswhere you're disconnected and it,
and then you can kind of delve moreinto your well undistracted mind.

I mean, it's so tempting.
I mean, you got this, I was on a, Iwas on a moose hunt in, um, in British
Columbia here this last season.
Yeah.
And, um, I'm, I'm tryingto find something.
I'm using the OnX and the eyehunter apps and this thing keeps
popping up and it says, oh, doyou wanna connect to satellite?
For, uh, for text messages.
I'm like, no, no, nope.

(08:01):
And then my wife, she does it.
She's like, I'm getting text messages.
I could send a receive and uhoh.
I mean, like, it's, it's cool, but Ilike the fact that we disconnect and
they're, you don't have that abilityto actually read somebody because it,
it takes away that easy option, thateasy little lifeline back to something.

(08:22):
Uh, absolutely.
You

almost have to force it too.
It's like, uh, and it's funny becauseif you go without, you know, the modern
technology or phone and you're up inthe mountains for a week or two, you
find, you just don't miss it at all.
It, you just, it's not even dayone, you know, there's just no
aspect of you that misses it.
But when you have it, it just absorbsso much of your consciousness.

(08:45):
So it's a odd thing I always findwhen I'm coming out of the woods.
'cause of course I have a running alittle business and stuff and all this.
I know I'm gonna have a lot of.
Message now.
I just have feel that bit of dread,like, oh man, here comes service.

Well, that, that's the tough part.
I mean, running a businessis my justification.
I'm back on social media.
Like I, I would never have socialmedia if it wasn't for the business.

Likewise.

But then you're on, it's like, okay, I guess I gotta put a message
out or we have to connect a little bit.
And I'd love, I love some ofthe connections that I've been
able to make because of it.
Mm-hmm.
What I don't love is all the cool stuffthat pops up and my A DHD kicks into
Hyperdrive and I'm like, oh, that's cool.
Oh, that's cool.
And I start flipping through.

Yeah.
We're on the, we're on the vanguardof humans trying to figure out
it.
They got some talented computer scientistsover there hacking our psychology.

(09:49):
That's exactly

what they do.
Uh, so tell me about hobo Gido.
How'd you come up with that?

Oh, I, uh, you know, and I, I guess I must have been 18 or so and I,
uh, I was just working at a salad dressingfactory in Idaho and then, uh, my brother
had ridden at one point had, you know,headed off and randomly started riding
freight trains and, uh, like an old, oldtime hobo, he, and he actually loved it.

(10:18):
He loved the freedom of it and kind of thelack of, uh, schedule and responsibility.
Any, any road trains were what wouldend up being seven or eight years where
he just basically just lived out thereand rode around like a, like a dang bum.
But he

as one does

just no, but was.
Uh, he was also, uh, unusually unusualfor that, you know, realm sober.
So yeah, he was able to, uh, youknow, just have a pretty rich
experience and build a lot ofrelationships with people and all that.
Anyway, he really liked it and at onepoint he's older than me and at one point

(10:59):
he invited me, uh, to come with him.
So quit my job and headout, headed out there.
And, uh, I thought it was really neat.
I've thought about it since a lot becauseit, in hindsight, I wasn't conscious of
it at the time, but it really felt likea sort of a fork in the road and a bit of
a rite of passage for me because insteadof just being stuck on the same routine

(11:22):
that I, that most people do, it kind ofput me out there, got me way outta my
comfort zone and, you know, just having,having an adventure and new, new ways of
thinking and doors that got opened and allthat, and, you know, and eventually, hmm.
Yeah, it was a, it was apretty awesome experience.
I, that first night I was, it was inApril, so it was still pretty cold.

(11:47):
We were on the high line, it's called, uh,going through North Dakota and all that.
And, uh, uh, got a big rainstormand you know, those trains go 55
miles an hour when they're up there.
And, uh, mm-hmm.
I was asleep.
I dunno how I did.
I must have been exhausted, but Islept through the rainstorm and I, I
actually woke up to my brother, hadshimmied along the train car 'cause

(12:09):
he was on another one, shim alongback to me and like, woke me up.
He was like, oh dude, I thoughtyou, I was hoping you, uh, you
know, I thought you might have

not

woken up.
Which I don't know whyI even thought that.
But anyways, long story short.
Absolutely drenched.
I was in a puddle of water anotherwhile I probably would've drowned in
my, got totally soaked and uh, uh,it was quite the, uh, introduction to
hobo because, uh, you know, middle ofthe night, North Dakota wind blowing,
I was drenched, didn't have anythingdry and uh, I got pretty dang cold.

(12:42):
I remember, I've never been more,more acutely aware of how the
sun can rise but not produce heatfor a period of time, you know?
Yeah.
Just watching it like, oh, come on, Katie.
It was, that was a pretty intense andfunny, uh, introduction to the ho bowing.
But then, yeah, I traveledacross the country with them.

(13:03):
We ended up in Virginia.
Did some, you know, we'd do some temporarywork there and then went up the East
Coast and back around and ended up backin, uh, you know, north Idaho ultimately.
But that also was somewhatone of the first times I had.
You know, spend a good amount oftime alone, at least enough to get
from Minneapolis to Spokane or what.

(13:26):
Yeah.
So that was an interesting, you know,it was just a real, and it was a cool
experience, particularly for a young man.
Like, just see what's out there.

I'd see.
So did you ever run into, uh, the policetrying to get you off or chase me around?
Oh yeah.

You know, you, that, that was actually, I might have been
a day or two after I got soaked there.
We came into some train yard and, uh,we had kind of done it on a, you know,
been, my brother invited me and I saidyes, and we didn't really take time to.
To get coached or anything by him.
But, so we were coming into the train yardand he pulled up his little monocular.

(14:06):
He's like, oh shoot, they'researching the train up there.
Like, we gotta get off.
And so we all just started, youknow, I don't know, when you're
on the train, it doesn't feel likeit's moving that fast that time.
Oh, but it's moving.
You gotta pro to properlydismount a train.
You gotta climb down the ladder,run with it, get your feet moving,
and then let go, and you can kindof run with the train and run off.
I didn't realize that.

(14:27):
And we're in a hurry, and thepolice were searching the train.
It was still moving, so I justjumped off feet, can't catch up
on it, rolled down and got up andwe, but we got away on that one.
And then a lot of times they didn't care.
You know, a lot of times you'd go up to atrain worker and ask them where the train
was headed and they'd, they'd advise you.

(14:47):
I'd, I'd say that was probably the norm.
Although more often you just try notto get seen, just to avoid any issues.
But, uh.
But, uh, yeah, we went to spend a nightin jail in DeKalb County, Indiana and

Oh, yeah.

You know, but that was an experience too.
And, uh, what was that like?
Well, that was funny too becauseI, uh, we were on the train and my
brother woke up and in the night anal had hit the train, like a, an al
had hit it and died and landed on him.
And we were joking about, oh man, that'sgotta be some bad Native American old man.

(15:27):
Oh yeah.
That Al lands on his head, it's deaf.
They were looking out the train and sawa bunch of workers and they were, you
know, intently looking at the train.
And one of them saw us and helike pointed to us and gave us
the throat slit hand gesture.
And we're like, oh, that'sdefinitely a bad omen.
And so we started looking around andsure enough, once again, we could see the
police searching the train up there andwe thought, oh, should we jump off and

(15:49):
run for the bushes or see what happens?
And we're like, well, let'sjust see what happens.
So we.
Kind of hit under some cardboardboxes and rolled through, and
funnily enough, we got past
us.
Disappointed because it was caninetraining day, and so they had 12
canine units there and they wereall excited that we might run.

(16:13):
Glad we made the right choice.

Yeah, it sounds like you did.

But anyway, went to the, went to jail.
It was really just a misdemeanor, youknow, it's like a trespassing charge.
It wasn't a huge deal, but, uh, spent anight there and, and, uh, yeah, it was a,
it was, you know, definitely memorable.
I remember it was a funny little townbecause they would march you again, you're

(16:38):
just there for a trespassing charge,but they would march you from the jail
to the courthouse, which was severalblocks away, but you know, in chains
with your hands behind your back chain.
Oh wow.
Chain up leg March youthrough town you like.
Cool Luke.
Yeah, totally funny experience.
But, uh, yeah, so all kinds of little.

(17:01):
Adventures doing that.
And you know, every night you'reout sleeping and you don't know
where you're gonna get yourmeal and who you're gonna meet.
And so,

yeah.
Well, what about theother writers always out

in the world experiencing it, you know, like

Yeah.

Interacting with different people.
Uh, and yeah, it was, it was interesting.
So.

Well, what about the other hobos that you'd be riding
with as with rugs and Temple House?
Well, I typically

rode with my, there, you know, with my
brother and our other friend.
And, uh, the three of us wouldusually ride rode together.
And so, uh, that kept it pretty simple.
Of course.
Um, you know, you'd run into otherhobos occasionally, but we kind of
tried to stick on our, you know, most,like I said, a lot, a lot of, we have

(17:49):
a lot of friends who are hobos orwere hobos at the time or whatever.
Most of them had.
Issues of different types.
And so, so it was a little easierto travel as a sober person,
kind of with other sober people.
And I only know a couple of them thatwere hobo of my brother and my friends.
Gotcha.
We kind stuck together and didn't, uh,but, uh, but yeah, we'd always, when we'd,

(18:16):
every city you'd get to, it's kind of asmall community, so you'd find out that,
oh, DeVos down in, you know, in New York.
So we'd end up going and running into him,you know, finding people whenever you were
in a certain town, you'd go to the parkand reach out and see who was where and

Okay.
Do they still hang

out?

Do they still do the hobo sign thing like
they did way back in the day?
Oh yeah.
I

mean, they're around there.
They have little, well, this is all past,I mean, this is all before cell phones.
I'm sure it's totally changed now, butthere was a, a, a genius level hobo guy.
I never met him.
My brother knew him well, that, that.
Kept track of every train yard in thecountry and, and the, you know, where
trains would come into, where theywould leave, where you could catch 'em

(19:00):
best, where you could get your closestmeal, where you could, uh, you know,
the time the times trains typicallycame and which time would go and, you
know, when it was leaving the yard, atwhat time where it would likely end up.
Anyway, he had it for thewhole, the whole country.
It must have been definitelya, some kind of a genius.
And he'd print that out and givethat to the people he really trusted.

(19:23):
So that was, that's, I still haveone of those little pamphlets
he made, which is kind of cool.
And No kidding.

Whole little underground community.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, what got you over to, uh, Siberia?

Uh, yeah, so I ended up, when apart, you know, we lived
in Virginia a lot of the time there'cause we could get work there and, uh.
I was there.
Long story short, I have another brotherwho's adopted, and when he became
an adult, he found his biologicalfamily and he had a biological

(19:58):
brother that was about my age.
And so when we all met, uh, that guy wasjust telling me about how they were gonna
be building this orphanage in Russiaand he was gonna go help, uh, um, some
missionary guy over there, build it.
And I, uh, I was like, oh, interesting.
I hadn't honestly thought a lot aboutRussia, aside from my interest in
history and stuff, but I, uh, neverthought of going there, but I kind of

(20:22):
on a whim or you know, like kind ofunserious almost just was like, well
Lord, if you want me to go over thereand help out, gimme a sign or something.
And I, uh, when we headed up to NewYork and met some Russians and was like,
oddly, oddly blown away, or, you know,I don't know, I was very heavily moved.

(20:43):
Um.
To, like, I just felt for them verydeeply in a way that it all brought
tears in my eyes, honestly, whichwas very strange in my experience.
So I, I just took that as a answerto that prayer unexpectedly.
And I was like, all right, well,I'll just buy a ticket for a
year and go and see what happens.
And, uh, and so I did that.

(21:04):
I ended up there, I was a few monthslater in Russia, you know, without much
of a, I didn't have much of a roadmap.
I just had a flash of clarity, uh, uh,in my life purpose at the time to, to go.
But beyond that, I didn'thave much of anything.
So I was in a little village in Siberia,and we worked on that little, uh, building

(21:27):
where they were trying to build theorphanage and, you know, dug well by hand.
You know, just doingall that kind of yeah.
Work.
And, um, the.
The guy that I lived with was, was oneof the cool, coolest people I know.
Uh, but he was an American and I wantedRussian man know Russian I live with,

(21:48):
he called the neighboring village.
That guy, uh, that Russian was just like,oh man, I need to, that'd be amazing.
Send the American over.
I need to go to work.
My wife's in the hospital andI got these, you know, little
kids that need to get watched.
Oh, there you, you go only 21 or 22.
But I went over there.
I'd never really messed with kidsat all, but just drop me in the deep

(22:10):
end of this, like Siberian villagelife, watching this guy's kids.
We'd cut hay with a sigh andstack it in those piles like
you see back in the twenties.
Yeah.
Like, like mother

hand used to do in the old Richard Ski books.
Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.
You know, make a, we'd make a, youwouldn't go buy a rake to rake up your
hay, you'd make one outta wood, you know?
Cool.
So we had all thesehandmade tools and Yeah.
And then, you know, plantpotatoes, milk the cow every day.
It was really interesting village life.
Uh, and that the man I had been there withhad been in prison years back and, uh.

(22:46):
Together with another, another guy.
And that other guy was super funny,like covered in Russian prison
tattoos and just a, a fiery dude.
He'd always, but verySiberian, very northern.
He'd, he'd always tell me how he had neverseen a, never seen an apple on a tree.
Like, you know.
Wow.

(23:06):
Like a man of the north for sure.
Wow.
He would tell me stories aboutthe one time he saw, you know, a,
uh, like a minority on the train.
I saw black guy once on the train.
It was, uh, anyway, to himit was really interesting.
I was like, man, sure.

(23:27):
Grown up in this northernorphanage in Siberia.
Had a rough life.
Went to prison a couple times.
That's where those two guys met.
And then he got out and he hadkind of been a changed man, you
know, they found God in prison.
And, uh, so between those two families,I spent my first year there and.
A third guy that had been inprison with was this fur trapper,

(23:49):
you know, from, from the north.
And he really cool guy.
He invited me up to live withhim in fur Trap in the far north.
So that kind of led me up that direction.
And there I was in NorthernSiberia, uh, uh, with this guy
and he took me out in the woods.
We, he kind of gave me a briefrundown on how to set the

(24:11):
traps and how all this works.
We went to the cabin, some of thecabins and stocked them with noodles.
But aside from that, all I really knewof the place was via topographical map.
And so it was, uh, that was areally, uh, there, that was it.
We, we got it all figured out.
Got it all set up.
It's winter time.
Know about November, uh, or October,November, something like that.

(24:34):
And then.
He went off to a series of cabins inone direction and I went in another
and I went, you know, we separatedfor like five weeks and just opened
traps and checked them and lived offthe land to supplement our noodles.
And it was like way inthe deep end right away.
Honestly, I didn't know what I was doing.
And it was, it was, I learned a lotof great lessons fast, you know?

Was it scary or was it exciting, or like,

oh, it was exciting and it was like, you know, there's something
about when you're alone that, and youhave this thing that you need to do that's
kind of out of your league a little bit.
Mm-hmm.

That is

interesting in that even if it's too much or it's too hard or so, or
you don't really know what you're doing,nobody's gonna fix that problem except
you, uh, because you're alone and noamount of whining or anything will help.
So you really get in this modewhere you just make it happen and
you make things happen and you'renot, I wasn't thinking about.
Uh, no, I wasn't scared.

(25:36):
I was, uh, always hoping toget something, you know, get a
grouse or get some, sure, sure.
There's a bit of pressureon you to produce something.
Um, and I spent a lot of days, you know,I'd get turned around and lost and,
uh, lots of extra days just trying tofind the next trap in some trap line.

(25:59):
You know, maybe since the last timesomeone had been there, forest fires
had gone through and, you know, whoknows where all these things are.
So I, uh, I fell through the icein this river at one point and.
You know, that's another hard lesson.
You know, obviously now if I'm goingacross, you're, I'm a little more aware of
how water and rivers and ice work, but youknow, a lot of the places, it's Siberia.

(26:22):
You got feet of ice on the river,you don't really think about it.
But of course, there's places whereundercurrents are hitting the water
and the ice is thin and you get caught.
Did you get sucked under?
Didn't think.
No, I didn't.
I just went in with mylegs and hopped out.
But of course then I was in the middleof Siberia soaking with, with, uh,

(26:42):
but that was the best case scenario.
But I, I made, I got, I made it out,got back to the cabin, it warmed up my
leg was, you know, burning on, you know,when as it woke up, it kind of got very
cold and died and then came to life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you get frostbite on that or no?
I don't think so.
It was nothing per, nothing permanent.

(27:03):
Yeah.
It was the.
Uh, yeah.

Water's scary.
Water can, uh, well, water's

scary and, and yeah, there's just margins of air small.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I got into quite a few situationsthat were, were just tough and I, I
thought it was, it was, it was good.
You know, you're by yourself.
I thought it wasinteresting mentally also.
That was my first time on such an extendedperiod of time where you realize how much

(27:30):
pops into your head when you're alonefor a long period of time, and how much
unpredictable, you know, any skeletonsin your closet are gonna rear their head,
or any conversations you should have hadthat you didn't have are gonna come up.
And, uh, and when you're alone, thosefester in your head, but you have no
way of really settling them becauseyou're just by yourself and there's

(27:52):
nobody to talk to about it or anything.
So, so they just roll around in your head.
And I'm, I, I thoughtthat was interesting.
I was.
Fortunate enough there tohave like a pen and paper.
So writing helped, you know?
Right.
And then I was like, okay, when I getoutta here, I'm gonna, you know, get
ahold of that guy and tell him, you know,make things right and stuff like that.
But,

so, uh, as you write these things down, and that's a really cool
tip because that's a huge part of whyI want to talk to you is about the, the
mental aspect that you display and mm-hmm.
But, uh, writing these things down, theyprobably seem very important in the moment
when you're out there and very pertinent.
And when you come back intocivilization and you look back at

(28:33):
this, did it hold the same weight?

Definitely didn't, I would say, because it is, you know, once you
get back into civilization, there's justso much more distraction and so much, you
know, when you're out there again, thosethings will just roll around in your head
without really a way to resolve them.
And so, or even share themental burden of them.
So you, so it really just.

(28:58):
Occupies a large percentage ofyour mind when, uh, writing, again,
writing it down helps just so youcan Oh yeah, I'll handle that later.
Okay.
Write it down.
I like that.
But then once I got out, I would, I didfind that on a lot of that stuff I would
follow up on, but not on everything.
'cause then once I was out, itdidn't affect me as much, you know?
But I, I would say for someone I wasadvising, like, say you were gonna get on

(29:22):
that alone show, or something like that.
Mm-hmm.
I would definitely advise you to,to spend some time ahead of time
by yourself long enough to seewhat types of things might pop up.
I mean, maybe it's obvious, maybeyou know what, but you know, ends
are untied in your life, but there'sa good chance that you don't.
Right.
And if you don't create the spaceto find out what those are and then
resolve 'em and then head out onthat, in that, into that experience,

(29:47):
um, with all those ducks in a rowas much as they can be, because, uh.
It'll really bo eat you up out there ifyou have serious stuff to work through.
It's a terrible place to gowork through issues, you know?
And, and on some degree, to somedegree it's a great place to
recognize what they're but, but hard,

hard to resolve.
You can see 'em.
It's like having, having anenemy that you just can't punch.
You can't connect.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Um, so good friend of mine,um, actually he's the one who
brought you on on my radar.
He is like, you gotta talk with this guy.
He's awesome.
Right?
Oh, right.
But he was,

tell him, hi,

I will, but I'm gonna leave his name out here.
Because, um, he was talking about, um,some difficulties that he was having.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, you know, for me,I'll go out into the bush, I'll
get away from cells, I'll try andreduce the distractions that I have.
Mm-hmm.

And

that's my way of kind of, um, kind of decompressing and bringing
things into a bit more of a focalpoint of what's actually important.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
He says, well, I.
I tried that and I was out there for 45minutes, a couple hours, and I hated it.
All these thoughts arecoming and all these things.
It's like, yeah, I had to get back intoself service and I had no Interesting.

(31:04):
Yeah.
And I said, well, that's because it'smasking when you, when you're with all the
people and all the stuff around you, itcreates a level of noise that can now kind
of mask whatever that underlying thing is.
And I suggested maybe find a wayto push through, but, um, mm-hmm.
There's a, a question that'ssort of related that comes up.

(31:25):
It says, I'd love to know moreabout his thought process and
self-talk while he is on the show.
He's obviously very skilled andknowledgeable, but what really stood
out for me is his calm, almost zen-likeenergy throughout the whole process.
Is this a byproduct ofskills and knowledge?
Is it a character trait or isit a conscious decision he had

(31:46):
to make every day to survive?

And to some degree it's all three.
So like I, I won't deny that I have a,um, personality that is a bit, I don't
have an anxious personality per se.

Um, you don't have, or you do have?
I don't.

Okay.
So like, I will say there's somedegree, which, you know, it's a, one
of the, my natural state of being, butthat's, it's definitely a product of
environment also because, um, and lessonsI've learned in life over the years.
So I will say, uh, alone wasinteresting because for me, and

(32:25):
it's kind of, it probably comesacross on the show, although they,
I obviously tried to emphasize it abit, but for me it really wasn't hard.
It wasn't that hard mentally.
And I caught myself out thereasking that same question.
I was like, like, why not?
Like, I, I'm thankful that it'snot, but I'm also aware that.
This would usually be a verydifficult situation mentally.

(32:46):
And so I thought a lot about what hadprepared me to do well in that situation.
And uh, I mean, of the half of that,a lot of that is like what I need to
write a book on, because it's a lot, theanswer answer's very large, you know,
you know, there's a lot to it, but Ican, um, get to some of the points here.

(33:09):
Uh, the,
the first one is, isperspective, I would say.
So what allowed me that perspective, andI, and I know I've told this story on Lex
Friedman and Joe Rogan and stuff, but it,it, it was, it's just being intimately
aware of my own of history in general.

(33:31):
So like, I did a lot of reading whenI was young about people and wars and
memoirs and stuff, and it, it gave me a,as a young person, even a. A perspective
on my own trials at the time that was,uh, that just made them not seem so big.
And then, uh, in my own familyhistory, you know, they'd all been
through the Armenian genocide.

(33:53):
My grandparents and both had terriblestories, which I had the benefit of
knowing, like I got 'em passed down to me.
But both my grandparents were orphanedand, you know, watched their families
die, killed in, in this horrible scenario.
And, uh, to make a long story short,it was interesting as a young person

(34:15):
growing up, I didn't know 'em becausethey died before my, I was alive.
But I got, there's a few old grainyvideos and of course I knew all my aunts
and uncles that they raised and the oldvideos of them, it was like such joyful.
They were cooking up a rabbitin France and there are just
so much joy around the table.
And then they raised these 11kids who were my dad, aunts

(34:36):
and uncles that were just the.
You know, it was a such a bright partof my childhood where those family
reunions and getting together and thelaughter and the, and the togetherness,
and I always thought it was, you know,and later in my life it dawned on me
how remarkable it was that these peoplewho went through such trials like that
would pale, you know, anything thatwe're going through in comparison.

(35:00):
Uh, and they came through with joy thatwas deep, that they transferred to their
children, that they, like if I didn'tgrow up with a bunch of, uh, ingrained
animosity for the people that did thisto us or anything like that, you know,
they, they, they built a new life.

(35:20):
They fostered family, um,to a very high degree.
And they, and, and then I came along justone generation later of the beneficiary
of their ability to go through thatsuffering and coming out with a positive.
And coming out, come out ascreators, not as victims or whatever.

(35:41):
And I thought that was, uh, Ithought I think about that a lot.
You know, that's something that goes withme when I'm in a, on a TV show on alone.
It's like, what can I wind about out here?
That's, you know, and hopefully I, that'sa good up to their legacy in the same way.
Well, I'll keep it short too, butmy, my dad, oh, don't worry about it.
Oh, yeah.
Well, my, my dad went through a similarlydifficult, you know, final 10 years

(36:05):
to his life where he lost his legs.
You know, he had diabetes, he hadgrew up as a child with diabetes,
he had polio, so he was physicallyunable to maintain his health.
Uh, but he, he being, you know, theproduct of his parents and who, he was
an immigrant to the us, all he wantedto do was create a life for his kids

(36:28):
and, you know, just be a family manand provide, and, which he did a great
job of until he was about 50 and,and he got a sore on his foot that
wouldn't heal, you know, as it happens.
And then, uh, he spent four orfive years just trying to get
this sore to, he couldn't walk on.

(36:48):
And then it finally healed.
And, uh, we went out, we weresplitting firewood, I remember.
And we had the log splitter and he wasjust like, man, Jordan, it's just so
nice to be outside again and be out.
And he crushed his footin the log splitter.
Oh.
So, so then they just amputated his leg.
But, you know, once thathappens, your health can really
degrade and eventually, and

mentally too, rather.

And in the meantime, my mom had to go back to work because
she was a stay at home mom, but,uh, somebody needed to provide.
And so she was going backto school to become a nurse.
And dad had to watch ashe felt like a failure.
And mom had to pick up the slack.
And we were, you know, I rememberhim crying when we had to go
to the food bank and all that.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, he justfelt like a major failure.

(37:32):
Mm-hmm.
But it was interesting because I gotto watch his growth through the years.
And then, uh, for us, henever felt like a failure.
You know, he never seemed like a failure.
We saw how he dealt with it.
And for us, from myperspective, I was constantly.
You know, I was watching how hewas dealing with the suffering and
the bad lot he kind of had in life.

(37:53):
And, uh, and what I saw is him evolvefrom, you know, obviously there were very
hard times early on especially, but thenhe worked through and he found that his
self-worth wasn't tied up necessarilyand what he could do and what he could
produce and all the things that you andI probably tied up in he, uh, but he
could see that, what I could see was,is that his value to me was in like,

(38:18):
he was such an encourager and he wassuch an example of how to face loss and
trial, but maintain a joyful spirit.
You know, every morning I'd hear himat night in pain, like rolling around
and like, ah, then the morning I'dget up and, Hey Jordan, just be really
happy and wanna talk and wanna read.
Anyway, very positive allthe way until he died.

(38:39):
And, uh, and it was.
It was an interesting, youknow, another very valuable
lesson in how to face trials.
And, and, and that always stuck withme, those two, lesson three, I guess the
reading I had done of like Gulag ArchCapella stuff, my family history, and
my dad gave me a trifecta of perspectivethrough which to filter my own experience.

(39:06):
That just allowed me to deal withsuffering with a little more, I think
more of a level head on my, and alittle less focus on my own personal
experience, being able to couch it intoa broader, you know, a broader story.
Um, and then, so that would be onethat would be like, uh, one leg of the

Okay.
Yeah.

Of the, uh, of resilience.
Then I guess you would need, you know,another part of it, let me think.
Um,
I gotta organize my own thoughts here.
Um,
well, what we, oh, you know, I guessanother obvious one that kinda is, is just

(39:48):
having solid relationships in your life.
So because, um, again, it was somethingyou made very clear when you're at a, in
a, in a, on a loan or something like that.
All my trips to Russia, I spentmost of my twenties in Russia,
but of course I was a young dude.
I had, you know, wanted to pursuerelationships with this girl or that

(40:09):
girl, or I had friends I wanted tospend time with or this and that.
And, uh, but I, and then I, but Ialso had my core people who, uh,
my family, my really close friends.
And it was interesting to find thatafter I would leave to Russia and be
gone for a year, I could come backand boy, those people were still
there, you know, they still, andwe still cared about each other.

(40:31):
And now my being gone couldbring something back and add
value to their lives too.
And.
And being able to over prac, by practicingthat muscle, exercising that muscle, I
was able to, uh, grow in my ability totrust those relationships, to maintain
through, you know, through even timeand distance and stuff like that.

(40:56):
And, uh, realized that whatI would go through would add
value to them and vice versa.
And, and we can all, you know, wedon't have to stick to, you know, be
necessarily, I love that physicallyclose like that our, our love in
some way would bind us together.
And I could trust that.
And because I had strong relationships,particularly like on alone, my
marriage was good, so I didn't haveto be out there and stress about that.

(41:20):
And so, uh, so that's good.
I then I think there's like a little bitmore practical, um, aspects of it, which
is that throughout my life I had just.
Often been outside of my comfort zone.
You know, we've touched on it a littlebit already, but from riding freight
trains to living in a foreign country,not knowing the language, to learning the

(41:43):
language, and then being in a completelyvaried foreign cultures and having to
adapt and, you know, and often just overmy head, but recognizing, uh, that I could
be comfortable living and kind of whatI would call the edge of my aptitude.
Like I was always pushing what I wascomfortable doing and always, not

(42:07):
even consciously sometimes, but justI would find myself in situations
where like, gosh, I don't know whatI'm doing, but I'll figure it out.
Obviously in doing so, you also becomereally familiar with failure, and
it does because you're constantlyscrewing up and iterating and learning
and, uh, in doing so, I just think bybeing on the edge of your abilities

(42:28):
a lot, failing a lot, you become.
More resilient so that when youdo get in those uncomfortable
situations, you don't feel flustered.
You're kind of like, oh, totally.
You know what it's like you,you're totally kind of used to it.
And then I always think of the examplewhen I missed the moose on alone.
You know, because later, and I'm onthis show and I have, I set up for

(42:51):
the listeners that don't know, and Iset up this big opportunity of weeks
of, of calling and strategizing tocreate some opportunity outta Moon.
And I got one and I missed, and Iremember the thing watching, walking away.
And just for one, I waslike, well, that was awesome.
Like, what a dinosaur.
And like, darn it, that's, Icannot believe I missed both

(43:13):
those emotions come combined.
But then at the same time, I wasn'tthat I, I could not get, I could be
unclustered in that moment and insteadof being mad about how I screwed up and
my failure, I could immediately justswitch into, oh, there goes the moose.
Like how can I. Learn from,you know, what its behavior is,

(43:36):
uh, to make this happen again.
You know, like, because I, it justmade me more determined to create
another interaction, and right afterI missed it, I was able to just stay
focused, watch it, keep a level head,follow where it went, and come up
with another plan, you know, without,without being despondent over, over

what, what are they saying?
And so I

think

there's winners.
There's winners and there's learners,

right?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And so I, I think just havinga, a lifetime of experience that
had me outside of my comfort zoneand kind of screwing up and being
uncomfortable, being okay with thatMm. Help build some of that resilience
that your buddy was asking about.
And, and I, uh, so yeah, I don't know.

(44:22):
It'd be interesting.
It'd be interesting forhim to go out, I think.
I think people need to.
I don't think not creating that mentalspace because it's too hard is an option.
Like, you know, like I think,I think you almost have to, you
almost have to go through it.
I would recommend you go outand if there's things really
nagging him, write it down.

(44:44):
Make sure that you're gonna, like, whenyou come out, try to be determined to
follow up on, on what those things are,but then write 'em down and, and do your
best to let 'em, let 'em slide becauseyou know, we'll I'll, I'll, I will, I will
work through this issue, but I can't uphere right now because, you know, right.

(45:05):
So I, I'm try to practice that muscleof recognizing what you can and what
you can't affect and not being toobothered by what you can't affect.
Putting in its right place.
And when you can, thenyou need to act on that.
So I think in his situation,writing it down would be helpful.
And then, yeah, I spend moretime up there because it is
important to have those resets.

(45:26):
We're so, we are so unusually distractedthese days that I don't think just
maintaining that way of life is ideal.
And it's not.
It's the, it's the norm.
Like we're all like that.
You and I both, uh, are constantlybombarded by information and phones and
this and that, and that's okay, but you'dhave to create some space that's not,

(45:47):
that that's not scheduled and that'snot pressured and that's not distracted.
And so I think your advice
pops.
To come out of the woods andconfront what those things are.
Yeah.

I, I think that's a, uh, a brilliant addition to
the advice that I gave him there,and the points that you bring up.
I, I really like the failfast, fail hard fail often.
Mm-hmm.
Because then you learnthat failure is not fatal.
Success isn't final failure isn't fatal.
And you can get used to that.
And I know people who crave failure,they're high performers, high

(46:29):
achievers, because then they knowthis is a stepping stone to success.
I know if I'm failing, I'mpushing myself and I'm learning.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
And the other one that, uh, if I'mpicking up what you're saying, there
is a third party perspective and Right.
What I mean by that is, um.
Uh, I'll give you a couple examples.
Uh, one, uh, when my wife was in laborwith our first child, our daughter mm-hmm.

(46:54):
Uhhuh, and it was 27 hoursof labor and yeah, long time.
That's an

intense experience.
Totally.

Like, and lots of pain and everything else.
And, um.
And she's like, I don't know if Ican do this and blah, blah, blah.
You know, all the thoughts that gothrough through somebody's head, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, um, doing, doing the naturalbirth thing and I says, well, yep.
How would future you like to lookback on you and how you perform now?
How would your grandmother, uh,have dealt with something like this?

(47:22):
'cause she admires yourgrandmother very much.
Right, right, right.
Um, how do you wanna look back on how youdealt with this in, in the moment today?
And although some people have saidthat, I'm lucky I didn't get my
head smacked off at that point.
Um, uh, in the moment, in the timethat was the right advice for her.
And it was like a light bulb justflicked and all of a sudden it was like

(47:43):
all new energy, all new perspective.
Huh.
It was the same situation.
Mm-hmm.
But she's like, okay,it's one day of my life.
Right.
Or it's one month of my life,or it's one year of my life.
Right.
How do I wanna look back on this one?

Right,

right.
And and the other one is, um.
Uh, and then, then I kind of gotout there, another fellow I, I
haven't heard from him in years,and, uh, super funny guy, uh, had
a problem with alcohol and mm-hmm.
And, uh, went, went in the program.
Mm-hmm.
And I got this text, uh, and acouple weeks ago and, uh, uh,
saying, I don't know why I am theway I am and my, my addiction has,

(48:19):
uh, taken me and getting into it.
And I, and I see just through statementanalysis and looking at how, right?
Like, what do you mean my addiction?
I have an addictive personality,but it's not my addiction.
I don't have to own this thing Uhhuh.
But, but, uh, so I'm talking withthem and, um, I said, you know,
there's people, I care about you.
There's people want you around.
And he's like, well, you know, like,like who my, um, my, my family,

(48:44):
they can take care of herself.
My daughter, she's off to university.
She can take care of herself.
And I said, well, you don'tthink mental health and addiction
is not a hereditary thing.
You don't think at some point shemight want to be able to look back.
She might be fine right now.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
But when she does experiencedifficulties, what example are you
giving her as a role model to beable to deal with these difficulties?

(49:07):
If you call it quits?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
If you take, if you take the easy wayout, and that's that, uh, perspective
that your father was able to give you.
He was going through difficult time.
Mm-hmm.
But he approached it with suchenthusiasm and, uh, humility and humor.
Yeah.
You

can find purpose in that trial, you know, and that his purpose is.
Could be to like, well, I'm gonna confrontthis addiction and this depression, right?
And like maybe show my daughter howto, should she ever find herself in the
same position, you know, like, right.

He says, oh, I want to be strong like you, or I want
to be this like somebody else.
I said, well, you don't sayI want to have strong muscles
and then never go to the gym.
Mm-hmm.
You need to present yourself withthose weights and challenges in order
to develop the muscles you want to.
And the same thing is in life,the same ability to be strong
mentally and emotionally.

(50:00):
It happens because of thesechallenges that were presented.
And this is what I, I mentionedto him, I said, you're given an
awesome opportunity right now.
You're given something a lot of peopledon't get the challenge to do and mm-hmm.
How you deal with it now is gonnaframe how you are in the future and the
people who love you and look up to you.
Good

ripple for generations.
Who knows.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like yours, right?
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's crazy.
Yeah.
Crazy.
Yeah.

Um, so, okay, so you're on a loan.
Uh, you're allowed Ithink 10 items, is it?
Yeah, 10 items.
Um, what, uh, what did you bring thatyou thought was the most important and
what would you probably not bring again?

Uh, it's hard to say what's the most important,
because you definitely.
But if you're gonna be out therelong term, I don't know, I, the,
the natives I was with, you know,in Siberia would always say, the one
thing you need to survive is an ax.
And that's, you know,somewhat true, I'd say.
'cause with an ax, I felt like ifI had an ax, I could have a chance.

(51:06):
It's the very small chance.
But, you

know,

you could, that my plan A on that show is actually I wanted
to bear, the natives had showedme this cool deadfall for a bear,
and I thought, oh, that'd sweet.
And you know, that's something I couldbuild with just an ax and build a
deadfall and then, uh, smash a bear.
I thought that'd be sweet, but Oh wow.
We weren't allowed to bait traps.

(51:29):
Right,

right.
Yeah.
Some provinces you can, but that said,

you know, having that ax does give you the ability to procure
food, to build shelter, to find, youknow, water in the winter, whatever,
you know, it gives you a lot ofoptions so you can build fire with it.
The one item that I almost feltlike I didn't need was the saw.

(51:54):
I took it because I thought it'dbe a calorie saver and be nice.
It was very helpful, you know,in building, but you can do
everything with an X that youcan do with a saw, basically,
particularly in soft wood forest.
But the, uh, I felt like itwas a little superfluous.
Had I known my location, whatit would be ahead of time, I
would've swapped it for a gill net.

But,

uh, I made a gill net, but you know, I could've then had two,
which would've only just been better.
So in hindsight, that'swhat I'd have done, but.
Zach's was ha I mean, the saw wasstill handy and stuff, but Uhhuh,
it was a little bit unnecessary.
So I would've pro, I would've beenmy item swap had I had hindsight.
Yeah, everything else was very useful,uh, that I took, so I wouldn't mm-hmm.

(52:41):
And I kinda liked that show formatbecause having a few items versus
just not having anything you picture,like naked and afraid or something.
It's just not a realistic wayto, to survive in the woods.
You know, I, it's like0% chance, basically,

yeah,

maybe you're eating coconuts or whatever, but the, uh, to have a little
legitimate way of making, of wildernessliving and not just dying slowly.
Uh, there's a, you know,you need a few items.
And so I think that alone kind ofhit on that balance pretty well,
which, which mimicked a bit what Ihad been doing in Siberia and stuff.

(53:22):
So it.
Perfect for that situation,

I guess.
Yeah.
Well, Nikki, she made it to day 52before she was medically extracted.
Medically.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And she says she was in shock'cause she felt like she was
in the best shape of her life.
Things are going great.
Like, what do you meanyou're pulling me off?
I put all this time and energy.
She, um, that's terrible.
But she was talking about themedical checks that get done.

(53:47):
Yeah.
Were there any points where your medicalchecks were looking a little touch and go?

No.
Like, so I actually left theshow weighing what I do now,
just my totally normal weight.
Awesome.
But I'll tell you what, I'm a thindude and I, and, uh, I was worried
that they might be worried that Iwas thin because, uh, it's a, it's
kind of a long story, but I, but, um.

(54:16):
I thought basically thatthey thought I was, I thought
they thought I was too thin.
And so I was super stressed about them.
And I also, uh,
you know, I, I gotta be honest with you, Ididn't know if the show was rigged or they
wanted somebody to win and this and that.
And so I was like, man, what if theytried to use that as an excuse to pull
me off even just because I'm skinny,but yeah, but I'm this way normally.

(54:40):
So anyway, those were all thoughts I had.
I got, gotta admit, but, um, Iwas never in any danger, honestly.
When the show ended, I, like Isaid, I weighed what I do now.
I might've even been slight.
I think I got, I was 1 68 whenI weighed myself, and that's
like right, what I usually am.
Mm. So interestingly enough, um, butI had lost 25 pounds because I just

(55:06):
put on a bunch of blubber beforeI went out, you know, eating smart

move

olive oil and all that.
So, uh.
So that's why I thought,man, I lost that 25 pounds.
They might be worried aboutme, but, um, they shouldn't be.
And so I was always stressedwhen they came on med checks,
but only for that reason.
Um, and then I was, I guess, yeah.
Was that the question?

(55:30):
Sorry, I lost track of the question.
Yeah, well, yeah.
Anyway, it was a, it was a, i, I, Iempathized for her being pulled, feeling
like she was in good health because,uh, that could, I, I was stressed.
They would do that to me.
You know, like I, me and I didn't haveany, I didn't know how I could prove I
wasn't, I, I remember telling them like,what you, me to do jumping jacks or.

(55:55):
Totally fine.
I swear I'm just skinny.

Well, you, you, I believe it was what, half a
million that you end up winning.
And you're right.
If I remember reading that, you saidyour goal was to do the show so that
you can spend more time with yourfamily, your in a financial place.
Yeah.
You can spend more time with yourkids to, to help raise 'em, right?
Oh, yeah.
And

oh yeah.
It's been good.
It's been amazing for that.
It's been a huge blessing.
Honestly, the most tangible,positive from the show.
I have met a lot of really cool people,but it has allowed me to shift a bit from
instruction in the trades and stuff likethat, and into, uh, take taking people

(56:38):
out in the wilderness and, and that'smore of a, it's more of a seasonal job.
And so then I also have a downtimewhere I can really focus on
spending time with the family.
I have the.
Infrastructure and the living in theright place to be able to take the
kids out in the mountains too andenjoy that with them and really help.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's really helped, itreally helped me kind of, for one,

(57:03):
it was one of the, one of the manyexperiences of life that that helped me
gimme great clarity on whatmy priorities are in life.
But it was a very important one in beingable to like, kind of bring that to a
place that, man, I I'm, I can only bethankful for where I'm at right now.

(57:23):
And sometimes, yeah, I don't deserveit, but we got, got a good thing going.
Hallelujah.
I say

don't deserve it.
I don't know that.
I don't well know.

I only, again, it's funny because I always have the background, I
always have it running in the backgroundthat it doesn't have to be this way.
Like I, you know, look at my grandparents.
They were as wonderful of people,I'm sure, and doing their best in it.
And their life was very difficult.
And so all I can do is like focuson when that's not the case and in

(57:57):
what aspects that's not the case.
And be really thankful for it.
So I'm honestly like, consciously awareof, I don't take for granted the fact
that I do have my health right now.
Yeah.
That

can't

go up there.
I can understand there's a lot of peoplethat can't, I, I don't take for granted
the fact that I have a job that I love.
It's like that's not given to everybody.
Mm-hmm.
And none of that stuff comes.
None of it is, that's why I sayI don't think it's necessarily
deserved because, uh, it's just,there is a element to which it's not.

(58:27):
But I, but you know, but ofcourse hard work and stuff.
Maximizes your odds, but it just,it's just, I'm, I'm thankful for it.
All I can do is just be thankful.

Yeah.
Isn't it funny the harder that wework, the luckier we get, just funny.
Exactly.

You play a role in making your own luck For sure.
Yeah.
You know,

when I, when I prepare for a podcast like this, I'll go
through and I'll try and find, uh,background on an individual, but.
I have sort of a rough outline because Ireally like to see where the conversation
takes us, Uhhuh Uhhuh, and so I've gota DHD and I can go in a whole bunch
of different directions, but I alsokind of pick up on little weird things
as we go through too, Uhhuh, and I'mjust kind of vocalizing my process at

(59:07):
the moment because if I'm to play anarmchair detective and do statement
analysis off of a few things that youwere saying when we first started talking.
Yeah.
There was a thread of two themesthat you brought up on more than
one occasion, and one was alright,one was sobriety and one was faith.
Oh yeah.
So what, what that about?

(59:28):
Am I on base for?
Uh, oh, yeah.

Maybe it's fine.
Well, yeah, I guess sobriety,uh, personally I have, I don't
have an addictive personalityand haven't struggled it.
Like my dad wasn't an alcoholic.
I didn't, I didn't have that struggle,uh, running in the background.
But in my adult life, it's beena huge part of my experience
given the fact that, uh.
You know, particularlywith my traveling friends.

(59:55):
Mm. And then on a, on another note inRussia, and particularly amongst the
native populations over there, it's just

Travis Bader (01:00:02):
through

Jordan Jonas (01:00:02):
the roof and it's people you really care about and love.
And you can see 'em in the woods,you know, as when they're nomadic
and they're out in the forest,they're people you would meet and
think of as like happy people.
Uh, but when they get in the villageor all their relatives who aren't
reindeer herders that live in thevillage, it's just the, it's terrible.

(01:00:25):
You know, the amount of the, thedeath by murder, suicide or accident
is 30% amongst those people.
They're like, it's, it's a mindblowing and it's like a lot of our
friends, every time I call back, I'ma little bit nervous about who's gonna
be alive and what's gonna happened.
So there was a lot of, you know, stark.

(01:00:47):
Not only tragedies, but alsojust missed opportunities.
And, you know, there's a lot of that thatis I've been involved with over my life.
So I guess maybe that, that'swhy that pops into mind.
Um, mm. And faith has just been a,it's just an awesome, I mean, it's
just a, it's interesting thing,it's a huge part of my life, but
I am fascinated by how it evolvedover the course of a person's life.

(01:01:11):
You know, you, you get a, you get a,you get a certain set of principles and
beliefs passed down to you from yourparents, and then those have to become
your own through the course of, youknow, trial and tribulation and all that.
Mm-hmm.
And then you end up,you know, on, on this.

(01:01:33):
Yeah.
So.
Interested to talk about with,with the understanding that I am
just a person on a journey, youknow, trying to figure it out.
Yeah.

Are you a religious fellow?
Is your family religious?
Yeah, I

love, I grew up in a Christian home.
That's why even my, you know, wholefamily history is that they were,
they weren't actually Armenians, theywere, uh, what's called Assyrians.
It's a Christian minority group.
They're the last people that speakAramaic, you know, that was Oh, cool.
What spoke.
So they were the kind of theindigenous people to the Middle East
before kind of the Arab, the influx.

(01:02:08):
And, uh, and there's still exists,there's still some of them, very few
left now because of the generations of,of, you know, violence and all that.
So, uh, but yeah, so my family historyis Christian and then I grew up a
Christian, and then I, but I remember,you know, your faith gets tied to a

(01:02:29):
lot of random things when you're, youknow, a lot of things when you're young.
I, I think for me.
When I was around the time when I feltthat odd flash of purpose and went to
Russia, there was a, uh, uh, I felt likethat was kind of a dark time because
I've, I remember I always kind of, I'dalways put my face on a bit of a pedestal.

(01:02:53):
I always took it seriously.
But, um, but I also found that I wasin a very dark place and it like,
you know, if I would pray, it justfelt like nothing if I, I didn't
have any, uh, it just felt very dark.
And I remember, uh, I was like, of coursethe, maybe my faith had been tied up
with too much, um, of what I had a hardtime believing, like the Earth 6,000.

(01:03:22):
Sure.
Sure.
And so you gotta like, untie allthat stuff and figure out where
the weed is, where the chaff is.
And I think right early in the process.
20-year-old.
I just felt like I was in a dark place.
But I, uh, and I remember readingthis verse that said, for those of you
who are, it was I, for those of youwho are in the, who are righteous and

(01:03:44):
yet in the darkness, just continue.
It was basically like thatwas the summary of it.
Yeah.
Uh, and I thought it was interestingat the time because like, oh, there are
people who try, try to follow the path ofrighteousness, but are in the darkness.
And I guess I'll justcontinue and see what happens.
And I kind of, after that consciousdecision to continue and to act and

(01:04:09):
live out the faith, even if I didn'tfeel it, I, uh, was when I got that
little call to go to Russia and then,which I was really profound for me at
the time, and I. So there, and I washeading on this trans Liberian railway
out to this Siberian village and Iwas like, what am I, I don't even have
like faith, like I'm just doing this.
I got like a little spurt of something,but I don't have, and I just remember

(01:04:33):
on that, on the trans Liberianrailway, I just like, Lord, if I
had just one thing I could ask forjust someday give me faith, like I'm
gonna live like I, like, I believebecause I, I'm gonna guide my life.
I'm mean, I kept it really simple.
Like I didn't care, you know, I wasthe ultimate, um, summary of my faith

(01:04:53):
was, you know, love the Lord yourGod, love your neighbor as yourself.
And I was like, if I can just keepit, that I don't have to worry about
the Earth's age, it might stage, I

don't have to figure out all that.
So you're basically fakingit till you make it.
Is that

what Yeah, exactly.
So I'm just gonna worry about whatthe meat and bones of the, you know,
the meat is of the, of, of this.
And I've prayed that prayer,going to Russia and it was funny
'cause on the way out, I, uh.
After that first year, and it was, itwas a really conscious year of me trying
to act purposefully out of love and, youknow, go visit the old lady in her house

(01:05:29):
and go, you know, dig that well or do it,you know, just hands on and on the way
back on the train, I had forgotten aboutthat prayer, but I, I remembered it on my
train ride back and I thought, oh my gosh.
It, that was, that prayer reallyanswered like, unbelievable.
And it was like, oh, kind blew me away.
I was like, oh, I actuallydo have faith now.

(01:05:51):
I don't know how that happened over thecourse of the last year, but, but, you
know, and then over the, over my wholelife it's just evolved and, and changed.
But it's a, a journey I am definitelyon and I appreciate, like, I
really like the idea of, you know,we all have these things based
on everyone's background, but.

(01:06:13):
Things that we struggle with, but ratherthan destroy and tear it all down, I'm
just, I think we need to like redeem andlike, you know, take this down, that brick
down, repair it with this one and thatone rather than bull the whole thing.
And so I feel like a bit that,that's my, you know, my path
of also is a bit like that.

(01:06:34):
And I, I most relate to itin the idea of the struggle.
You know, like, uh, there's that idea thatthe word Israel means like to struggle
with God or whatever, to wrestle with God.
And I, and that's funny because ifyou can, you can throw it all out.
And I totally understand people thatdo that for whatever reason, like,
ah, this is all BS and throw it out.

(01:06:55):
Sure.
And I have a lot of people that Ilove that have done that, but then
there, but if you take it seriouslyand wrestle with it and like, wait,
what does it actually, what if I tryto take seriously love your enemies?
Like, what does that mean?
You know?
And then.
That's a challenge.
And in some ways it's actually impossible.
Like the call in general tolove others is impossible.

(01:07:17):
And it's, and, and when you live outwith these people and you invest so
much in them and then they drink toomuch and die, and that's like, it,
it, it gets you, it really grindson you at like the vanity of it all.
But to have that, to choose to believeand have that orientation in the
world, I think is like, I, I, I thinkI find it so valuable in my life.

(01:07:40):
I'm like a huge champion of that,even though I understand, I understand
why there's a lot of people whosefaith is tied up with like this,
that unnecessary sense of guiltall the time or, or this or that.
So I understand the complexities ofit, but if I can boil it to down to
what is good and what is, what islike, what is it that we all all agree

(01:08:05):
with in some, on some deep level.
This, like the pedestal thatour culture has put the idea of
love on is not, not for nothing.
It didn't come outta nowhere.
That's not a, uh, it'snot a survival ethic.
It's not as far as like, it'snot survival of the fittest.

(01:08:26):
It's something a littlebit different than that.
And so, um, I wanna like cherish thatand there's that baby in the bathwater
that may be, that was my faith andthere's a baby in the bathwater that
I think in that Christian messagethat I ascribed to, that I think
is really worth like, fleshing out.

(01:08:47):
And that's kind of my life journey offaith is fleshing that out, I guess.

Well that, and that provides purpose and that purpose drives meaning
and joy comes from all of that and

Yeah.
Absolutely.
And then you do it in communitywith others who are trying
to take that path seriously.
And it's, it's a. So Ithink that's really neat.
I think it's neat to be on a, apurposeful journey towards a ideal,
towards a goal like that with others andprogressive work that out in your life and

yeah.
Progressive realization of a worthyideal as Earl Nightingale would say.
Right?
Yeah.
What, okay, so you said it'salmost impossible, I think you said
almost, I think you had that almostqualifier in there to, to, uh, love
thy enemy to uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Forgive those who have wronged you.

(01:09:38):
Have you uhhuh, have you squared yourselfof that or is that, uh, 'cause I find
that one, I'm like, I don't, I can'twrap my head around like, how do you, how
do you love someone who's done so muchwrong and continues to actively go outta
their way to try and, and like Yeah,

no, I do.
I I do think that that's wherethe, the struggle comes in.
But I'll tell you what is easy to do.
It's easy to hate 'em.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think it's incredibly valuableto have a. You know, to have that, to push
back against your natural, your naturaltendencies, because there's no doubt in,

(01:10:14):
in history and your own life personally.
It's like this, you're always lookingout for your best interests, you know?
Sure.
I just, I just think having that, that,to push against that, that's why I
don't take it particularly dogmatically.
It's not like, it's not likea law that you must fulfill.

(01:10:36):
It's like a, it's a calltowards wrestling with this as
being your goal in your ideal.
And then, and that's good

point.

Honestly, you're gonna fall short.
And I guess that's another interestingthing about that Christian message in
particular is that it's like you, there'skind of like, oh, well there's grace
for that, but just take it seriouslyand, and try, you know, in a way.
And, uh, I think it just makes you, uh.

(01:11:05):
Yeah, I think I, I think, I think wetake for granted how important it's that
there are so many of us in our culturethat have that, even if we don't even,
or even if we're not even conscious ofwhere it came from, we have that operating
system running in the background.
Like just even the, you think of likethe message of Jesus to have, uh, to love

(01:11:27):
the weak and blessed are the poor andthis and that, uh, that wasn't the norm,
you know, as, as the Roman historianswrote, like the strong do what they
will and the weak suffer, but they must,and that was the way the world always
was until, oddly enough, this other.
Worldview came into the world andsomehow gained enough traction that

(01:11:48):
now its tenants just run in our, thebackground of our consciousness, even
though we don't even some, you know, mymay or may not subscribe to where they
came from, but I could, I feel likeit's one of those things that if we're
not grateful for it, we could lose it.
Because I don't think it's a givenin, I don't think it's a given
in the world, in world history.
It's an anomaly of, you know,either consider it supernatural

(01:12:12):
or an anomaly of history.
It's amazing that it happened,you know, like, because it's
not a given, and so we should.

Well respect

to that.

I, I think it's a, a universal truth.
And I think if you look at all thesedifferent religions, they all mm-hmm.
Will have their points that cantend to boil down to these, and
I'm gonna do air brackets, sortof universal truths or Right.
Or an operating system for howthings kind of should proceed and
people will call it by differentnames and they'll have different,
uh, uh, ways to try and to go there.

(01:12:43):
But it's hidden in, so far as it goesagainst human survival nature of mm-hmm.
I mean, for me, I gotta make sure mine,me and mine are, are taken care of.
Mm-hmm.
I, I mentioned this to a friend of mine.
She was over and her daughter was there.
And I says, you know, at the core.
Everybody's for themselves.

(01:13:04):
Uhhuh.
It's just some people that line isreally close to their day to day.
And some people it's pushed further.
And she's like, I don't believe that.
I said, okay, so someone throwsa match in this house right
now and it's burning down.
And I didn't even haveto finish my statement.
She says, oh, I'm grabbingAdelaide first, her daughter.
Right.
Well, that, that's how we're designed.
We're designed intuitively to, uh Right.

(01:13:26):
To protect ourselvesin those that we love.
So

that, and we're Desi Yeah, we're, but it, you know, we're also
really designed intuitively to be tribal.
It's, you know, to be like, that'slike a deep part of who we're
to like our ingroup outgroup.
And it's interesting to have, um,something else going on in your ethical
framework that pushes you beyond thatbecause no, my, my boundary of who is the

(01:13:57):
other and who is on my side isn't just.
Who's in my family or who's in mygroup, or even who's in my faith
scribe, or who's in my country.
It, you know, it kind of pushes thatbeyond our na where it naturally sits.
Mm. And that's not to say that there's,I mean, obviously again, it kind of
goes back to loving your enemies.

(01:14:18):
Well, the fact is, is you're stillgonna prefer your family, and it's
kind of impossible to love your enemy.

Mm.

When it's truly, you know, truly, you know, when there's truly evil

violence

and all right.
But, but the, the like operating systemthat has that to counter our natural
selves is incredibly valuable, I think.
And I think it's taken for granted.
I don't think I would, I wouldback maybe against what you're
saying, I don't actually thinkit's necessarily a universal thing.
It wasn't even,

(01:14:54):
you know, it's not even reallythe case historically again.
Sim simplistically, the ro, theRoman like ethic was much different.
It was like you could mm-hmm.
If you had power over that person becausethey were not a Roman citizen or a slave.
You do whatever you wanted with themand, and that was the way of the

(01:15:15):
world forever, honestly, until Britaindecided to try to end slavery, it was
the most normal thing in the world.
It was Right.
Uh, because we're stronger andit's our team and whatever.
But there was something in the world thatdecided that, and that honestly it was to,
I would, in my context, obviously there'sa lot of, in my context, like as far as

(01:15:40):
I'm in the west here, but it Christian.
Them state of being in the world.
And I just think that that's interestingand we should under, you know, at least
recognize it before we throw it all out.

Yeah.
Do you know who Roger Banister is?
No.
Should I, uh, I don't know, maybe, uh,
you're kinda like Roger Banister in a way.

Oh, interesting.

So what?
My

phone dies.
I'm gonna try to go get acharger before it does, but

Okay.
Okay.

Yeah.
I'm heading there to tell youwhat, who's Roger Banister?

So, Roger Banister back in 1954, he ran a mile in under
four minutes, Uhhuh prior to 1954.
They thought that was impossible.
No man can run a milein under four minutes.
Uh

huh.

A month and a half later, John Landy goes out there and he runs
a mile under four minutes, and the nextyear there's, uh, three more people go
out and run a mile under four minutes.
Year after that, 10 more peopleand now thousands do it, and high
school students will go out andrun a mile under four minutes.
But what changed was the people'sperception of what is actually possible.

(01:17:04):
So Uhhuh, if you look at alone seasonsix, there were six seasons of alone
where their contestants competedand nobody had gotten any big game.
Uhhuh, you, you were the firstperson to go out there, and you
got a moose uhhuh unsuccessful.
First time successful.
Second time you got a moose, lots of meat.

(01:17:24):
Next season, somebodygot a big game season.
After that, someone got a biggame and it's, it's happened
a number of times afterwards,Uhhuh, but through your example.
It's sort of become the normthat people can expect certain
things out of themselves.
And the way that you're talking aboutliving your life and through your example

(01:17:47):
and what you're doing with your kidsand how you've learned from others and
what you're doing through social media,you are showing other people a path of
resiliency in the outdoors and in life.
I would say that is akin to howRoger Banister showed people,
Hey, this is actually possible.

Well, that's a, that's, that's a great compliment.

Well,

I be the case to some degree.
That be good.

But, well, I, I think the takeaway for me is, is that, um, when
you put your head towards something.
Um, really just 'cause it'snever been done before doesn't
mean it can't be done and Right.
Well, that was, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
No, go ahead.
Yeah.
And how am I comporting myself todayin the moment that's gonna serve as
an example for myself, my family, forothers at a later date and mm-hmm.

(01:18:40):
That's some of the message that I'mhearing when, when you're talking.

Good, good.
That, that's, I like how you putthat, but yeah, that's a great, it's
kind of a great, um, thing to haverunning in the background of your mind.
Just, you know, like, what are youputting into the world and is that what
you wanna be putting into the world?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um.
Is there anything I, I mean man,there's a whole ton more we can
talk about, but I realize you havea battery issue that might be, uh,

concerning.
Oh, you know, I got plugged in,so I'd probably have more time.
Yeah,

okay.

Yeah, it's out charging my, now I'm ahead of the game.

Beautiful.
And uh, you know, I was gonnadrive down to your location there
and, uh, and we'll, we're gonnado this in person, but I was Yeah.
Ju juggling my other commitments.
So what we have to do, and I'm like,I either put this off for a long time
or we at least get the introductionand get the ball rolling and have
this conversation here and maybe areable to continue the conversation out

(01:19:41):
in your neck of the woods or my neckof the woods, uh, in this future.
Yeah, absolutely.
The

connection

has

been

made in, uh, the connection is made.
Yeah.
Uh, you ever make yourway out to, uh, a bc

Um, not often.
I don't find myself in BC often though.
What an awesome place.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not, not true.
Not for lack of appreciating it.

Yeah, it's a pretty interesting place.
Tons of biodiversity.
Awesome for hunting.
Beautiful.
Oh yeah.
Rugged wilderness.

Boy, you fly over those mountains.
Uh oh.
Yeah.
You spend a lot of time up therein dc running around, I'm sure.

Um, I, I have so many other questions that I've looked through here.
Minimalism gear, philosophy,being present, finding meaning,
faith, fear in the unknown.
Talk about the more about the reindeerherders and, but I think the biggest
one that I had a mark behind herewas the psychology of isolation.

(01:20:44):
Mm-hmm.
And, and, um, uh, you know, you touchedon, you touched on a lot of the points
that I was, uh, hoping to uncoverthrough, through the conversation.
Uhhuh, uh, there's a couple things here.
Like was there anything thatyou discovered in the isolation
that you're still processing?

Um.
No, not particularly on a loan.
Again, that was interesting.
Uh, I did find that,
uh, I know that alone's been a,you know, it's a life changing
experience for a lot of people.
For me, it felt very similar to Russia.
And so it, it kind of felt, soa lot of times when I'm looking
for those, the things that I, uh,

(01:21:29):
went to or had to work through, uh,I think most of that work was done on
in those, you know, 10 years that Iwas going back and forth to Russia as
opposed to once by the time I got ona loan, a lot of those lessons that
actually already learned, which was sucha big advantage out there, you know?
Yeah.
And so, uh,

(01:21:50):
but no, I, what I'm working through,um, is really, is applying some
of the lessons that I already nowknow, you know, like I, and I think
it would mostly be in relation to.
If I try to wear, think about wheremaybe I'm, it's hard to say, but where
I'm kind of falling short of what Iknow I would think about if I was alone.

(01:22:15):
Sure.
Been there a bunch.
Sure.
It's, it's, um, poor example.
I know every time that I've spent,well, since I've had kids that I spend
a long time out in the woods, uh, Ithink, ah, you know, when I get back
I'm gonna like, make a point to takethe kids out on dates, you know, each
of them I should take out once a week,you know, once a month or whatever it

(01:22:36):
is, and just be consistent about, aboutgiving them some personal time like that.
And though I've.
Had clarity on my priorities enough toknow, to set up my life in such a way
that I have a good amount of time with myfamily and kids I have continued to fail
doing.

(01:22:56):
Yeah.
The plan setups like that.
So that's a, that's something,

yeah.
That can be tough.
It can be tough to have this event thatyou're planning towards and doing, but

yeah,

to be able to recognize in the moment when it's actually happening,
I think is a very powerful tool as well.

Yeah.
Being present.
And that's a struggle, right?
Isn't it Now?
Like even, you know, we canoften be distracted amongst our
loved ones and not give them theattention we want or they deserve.

Well, what is the notoriety that you've received after being on alone?
You're mentioning, you're on Lex Friedman.
You're on Joe Rogan, like the.
But those aren't insignificant podcasts.
You had a lot of eyes on you.
Mm-hmm.
And you've, you've got a levelof fame or infamy from mm-hmm.
From what you've done.

(01:23:48):
How's that been like to deal with?

Well, it's, honestly, it's a, I sometimes a joke with
some of my buddies, uh, but it's,it's at a, it's not too crazy.
It was interesting hanging out withJoe Rogan because he is at a level
of fame that really alters your life.
You know, like, it, it's difficult.
He had to, that was, and that wasstill when he was in la, but he had

(01:24:12):
to go to this unmarked building andhe has all these bodyguard type guys
around and, you know, it just, uh.
You know, if he's, the minute he stepsout of his building and walks down the
street, it's, his experience of life isgonna be greatly altered by his fame.

Mm-hmm.
Mine

is actually not like,
believe it or not,
but it, but it's kind of funnybecause for one, it's kind of
a fun thing to get known for.
You know, it was a fun show, a goodshow, and, uh, so the people that
are interested in that, it usuallyjust leads to a random conversation.

(01:24:50):
That's a fun conversation withsome, you know, some stranger That's
probably a pretty cool person.
It's like, oh, that's, thatprovides those opportunities here
and there to just have a randomfun conversation while you're out.
And honestly, it's kind of agreat level of, of if you call it
fame or whatever, but it's, uh,leads to some fun conversations,

(01:25:12):
A lot of really cool connections,but it's not life altering in.
You know, a certain levelof fame would be, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
Did you get

people reaching out and hating on you because
you killed an animal like you?
Well, less

than I expected.
I'll be honest.
I thought that was gonna be, I waslike, oh, that's gonna be funny getting
known, especially acts in this Wolverinethat I don't know if most people
probably think they're endangered.
I just,
I was like, oh man.
Uh, I was expecting more hate than I got.
And initially when it first came out, Iremember there were a few, but it's been

(01:25:49):
surprisingly little and I, uh, maybethere's, you know, people get all fired up
on the internet, but if you're thoughtfulabout something, and I genuinely am
thoughtful about, uh, my, you know, ethicsand hunting and things like that, I think
there's more room for that than we think.
It's not like, it's not just like, dude,that shoots everything that moves against.

(01:26:14):
Hardcore vegan and you know, there's awhole world of people out there that are
open to reason, even if they disagree,potentially with, you know, somebody
might choose a path of vegetarianismeven though they hear my best.
Reasoning as to why I feel likeethical hunting is a thing, but, uh,

sure.

But, uh, uh, but I don't think there's as much antagonism there
as you get the impression sometimes,which has been my experience.
Like I said, I expected to havemore hate, I guess you'd say,
and I just didn't get that much.
I was like, oh, that's interesting.
It's positive overall, likepretty much pretty positive.
And I had to learn a little bit earlyon because you'll get an occasional

(01:26:57):
loud idiot saying something andthen I'll just, and I'll find, you
know, as it does, it just gratesin your mind like, why is that?
You know, you have tolearn to ignore that.
And so that was just abit of a learning process.
But I haven't had, I mean, it's not a ton.
It's not like a, yeah,

I think

not as much as I thought.

Yeah.
My, my experience has been interesting.
I think, um, you know, a lot ofurban type people, uh mm-hmm.
Are actually intrigued about the ideaof self-sufficiency and uh mm-hmm.
Being able to forage and gettheir own food and hunting
and the idea behind it and.
I, I think it's a very differentsort of, um, mentality now.
Maybe it's a post covid thing.

(01:27:35):
Like I was, yeah, I was invited outfor a dinner friend of mine, and,
uh, she says, oh, come on over.
We got some other friends and acouple are getting into hunting.
One of them's, uh, transgenderedworks for Greenpeace.
I'm like, A whole lot of sex.
This person's getting into hunting.
Like, well, I, I thought there'sa stereotype to working for
Greenpeace, and they're, they'regetting into hunting, right?

(01:27:56):
And so it was, um, it was really, uh.
Uh, it's, it's been really eyeopening forme seeing the level of, uh, um, interest
that people have for shows like alone.
Mm-hmm.
I, I think there's a connectionto our natural environment
that people intuitively know ismissing from their lives and Yeah.

(01:28:17):
Yeah,

you're right on that.
Yeah.

They're looking for ways to be able to fill that.
And for me, I see hunting as one of theultimate ways to fulfill it, because
pulling the trigger on an animal ifyou're successful enough to find one and
get on target or using a bow or whateverit might be, is a fraction of a second.
Mm-hmm.
But, but the time that you spendscouting, the time you spend reading

(01:28:38):
and learning, the time you spend justbeing present in the woods and listening
to the critters chirp and the birdsand the patterns and the cycles of the
day, all of that encompasses a muchdeeper connection that I think, and

I think when you see someone that's really anti, and I,
and that's why I can't get that madbecause I just recognize that they
don't actually, they're usually not.
Actually aware of what they'rearguing with, you know, like, right.
'cause most people, like, you know,like yourself, like you're articulating
when you're out in the woods, there'slike a deep sense of understanding of

(01:29:11):
the interdependence of all the, of uswith nature and with the whole system.
And you see, you know, this herd of elk.
It's not like you'rejust, oh, I wanna kill.
It's like you actually want, likeyou, you deeply, you deeply respect
and like appreciate those animals.
Mm-hmm.
But at the same time, you aregonna harvest one, you're kill

(01:29:32):
one, you know, and eat it.
But it's like, but it's a, uh,
but at the same time, you're gonnalike work towards creating, you know,
the best situation where that, thatspecies, those animals can thrive.
You know, as the North Americanconservation model has done a pretty

(01:29:55):
good job of doing, which is somethingI. That I'm pretty impressed by
having lived overseas where, uh,you know, people usually just shoot
what they see because Sure, sure.
For a myriad of reasons from, you know,not having the same, uh, wealth that we

(01:30:16):
do to just not having the same societaltrust levels that we have the luxury of
living in and all that kind of stuff.
The, uh, but ours conservationmodel, it's amazing.
I'm always like, that's so cool.
We live right near town and there'sdeer all over the place and you
can see elk and people aren'tjust shooting them all the time.
It's mm-hmm.
Uh, that's great.

(01:30:44):
There's no, you know what I, where Ithink people get it wrong is people
think that we can exist and we canseparate ourselves from, from nature.
And the wild.
And the wild can exist over there.
And we can exist over here, but we're,and then, and you see it when you
live close like I do to wild places.

(01:31:04):
It's like even if you wanted humansto not affect nature, they do.
And even if you personally aregonna try not to eat a particular
type of animal, animals are beingkilled in the process of making your
food and the process of shipping ithere and there and refrigerating,
there's like habitat loss involved.
There's just a lot of factors wherewe live pushes the animals into less

(01:31:27):
ideal wintering grounds and mm-hmm.
Where accidentallyintroduced invasive species.
And it just like, these arevery complicated situations.
So rather than acting like we can't,cannot be a part of them, we need to.
Cognize that we're, and do it thoughtfullyand well, you know, be the well

said.

Yeah.
So

well

said.
And I think people are in general opento that message when, when they have an
open mind at all and are discussing it.
But, and a lot of times I don'tthink people even rec, you know,
there's just a lot of that thatpeople haven't thought about.
You know, when you don't live in a, ina world that is connected in nature,
because it's easy, easy in an urbanenvironment to totally feel like we're

(01:32:10):
not dependent on wild places and such.

Well, is there anything that we haven't talked about
that we should be talking about?

Oh boy.
Oh my man, that was a fun conversation.
Honestly.
I, uh, don't always talk aboutthe faith and things like
that, so that's kind of fun.
But the, uh, uh.
I, I dunno, Travis

probably there probably is, probably is Is there anything that
you wanna leave the listeners with?

Oh, I don't know.
I guess, yeah, appreciate peoplelistening with an open mind and
yeah, we're typically all on the, youknow, typically all on the same team.
If we can figure out some of thoseand there's gonna be differences.
But I, it's been one of the funthings taking people out on trips in
the mountains is I get people fromall over, you know, and from very

(01:33:07):
different political spectrums anddifferent countries and we all get
out in the woods and you just realizeeverybody's, we actually all get along.
Through filters, basicallythrough social media.
Yeah.
Seeing each other as another person.

(01:33:28):
And you can have a conversation aroundthe fire and it enrich everybody
and you see that, oh, that person.
Yeah.
It's been one of the most fun thingsabout running the trips that run is just,
is recognizing that and, uh, especiallyin times that have been, because I've
been doing this since, you know, aroundcovid before Covid a little bit or,

(01:33:52):
and, uh, it'll have all been politicallydivisive to see that that's not necessary.

Well, um, it looked like your, it says your recording
stopped there for a second, maybe.

Yeah, I got a phone call.
I hit it end, but apparently,

oh well Jordan, delete

the whole thing.

That's it.
Done.
Throw it out.
We're done.
You ruined it.
Ah, I tell ya.
Um, Jordan, thank you so much forbeing on the Silver Hor podcast.
You're welcome back anytime.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I really enjoyed this conversation.
Yeah,

right.
I appreciate it.

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