September 23, 2025 • 25 mins
Matt Needler shares his journey from combat medic and philosophy major to becoming Director of Operations at Belmont University's 60,000-square-foot simulation center, where he oversees high-fidelity simulation experiences across healthcare disciplines.
• Started in simulation by chance after seeing a job opening while working in physical therapy
• Advanced from technician to coordinator to director roles across multiple institutions
• Holds dual CHSOS and CHSE certifications, making him among the first 100 people worldwide with both
• Creates innovative simulation experiences including a mannequin that simulates upper GI bleeds with pumping blood
• Currently developing AI applications for simulation, including a system for nursing students to practice SOAP notes
• Presenting at IMSH on learning theories for simulationists and AI integration in healthcare simulation
• Emphasizes career advancement possibilities for simulation technicians
• Attributes success to willingness to ask questions and apply for opportunities
• Can be reached on LinkedIn or at matthew.needler@belmont.edu
Join Matt at the International Meeting on Simulation in Healthcare (IMSH) in San Antonio, where he'll be presenting on learning theories and AI applications in simulation.
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Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (00:00):
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Welcome to The Sim Cafe, apodcast produced by the team at
(01:04):
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Join our host, Deb Tauber, andco-host, Jerrod Jeffries as they
sit down with subject matterexperts from across the globe to
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Clinical education and the useof simulation.
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Deb Tauber (01:40):
Welcome to another episode of the Sim Cafe.
And today we're here withMatthew Needler who likes to be
called Matt who's the Directorof Operations at the Center for
Interprofessional Engagement andSimulation at Belmont
University, where he overseesdaily operations, leads a team
of technicians and collaborateswith faculty to design
high-fidelity simulationexperiences for healthcare
(02:03):
students and professionals.
His background includes servingas a combat medic in the Army
National Guard and he's hadhands-on roles in healthcare and
nearly a decade of advancing inmedical simulation.
He holds dual certificationsfor the CHSOS and the CHSE from
(02:30):
the Society for Simulation andHealthcare, and he has a
master's in adult education.
Outside of work, he's a proudfather of three and husband and
passionate about music, tattoosand family.
So thank you, Matt.
Matt Needler (02:39):
Thank you, yeah, thank you, thanks for having me
on.
I'm really excited to talk toyou guys.
And yeah, kind of on to alittle bit of my journey.
I will make one side thing aswe get going.
I'm almost got my.
I am in my very last semesterof my master's in education.
I'm in my capstone right now,just wrapping it up, so I don't
see anything major issueshappening.
Jerrod Jeffries (03:00):
But come December this this December I
will officially have the MSEB.
I'm really excited for that.
Oh great, yeah, well, cheeringyou on from the sidelines here,
Matt M, but, but, but, I want to.
I want to hear more about yourjourney into simulation.
I mean, you've been before we,before we started recording.
We we're talking a little bit,but I want to hear you popped
around a few places, so so giveus some more detail.
Matt Needler (03:20):
Um, I kind of have a weird kind of background
getting into simulation.
I joined the military as amedic and so I had this medical
background and I was like whatam I going to do with this?
And I kind of started going tocollege and I was working in
physical therapy and wound careand I also used to clean carpets
at night, and so I would go toclass all day, go to clean
(03:40):
carpets at night and then thenext day come in and do physical
therapy all day, and then thatwas just my life for several
years.
And so I got done with mydegree.
I actually got my degree inphilosophy, of all things, and
which always cracks me up, thejust the people that get into
sim.
It's can be nurses, it can beeverything, but it can also just
be like actors or people likeme with random philosophy
degrees.
And so I kind of just stumbledinto simulation on accident.
(04:02):
I saw it was there was anopening at the simulation center
at Fairbanks and I was likethis looks cool, because I used
to do simulation in the military.
Granted, I was the learner andon the other side with the
mannequins, but I always thoughtit was kind of cool and I saw
an opening.
I was like I'm just gonna apply.
You know what's the worst thatcan happen?
And I ended up.
It was really awesomeexperiences going in there and
(04:23):
touring and ended up getting thejob.
And then I just kind of fell inlove with it and I kind of
started dedicating everything Idid to learning more and I got
my CHSOS, and then I got my CHSE, and then I started presenting
at conferences and like I justI've heard it.
Once you know you get by thebug of simulation and then you
just realize this is an awesomejob.
How have I never heard of thisLike?
(04:43):
And then you just realize thisis an awesome job.
How have I never heard of thisLike?
I think it's like Shablack.
David Shablack always says it'slike the coolest job nobody's
heard of.
And that really was how thiskind of was for me.
I didn't plan on it or mean to,but now that I'm here I love it
and I can't picture doinganything else now.
Like I get to work with fakeblood and do one thing one day,
then something else the next day, and that's really what drove
(05:03):
me in when I was doing physicaltherapy.
It was kind of the same thingevery single day, not always,
but a little bit of that mindset.
Whereas in simulation like oneday you're working with peds,
the next day you're doingemergency medicine, the next day
you're helping with OB-SIMs andyou're going into the hospital
or nope, this time we'redesigning a fake.
You know disaster with likemoulage and you know it's like.
It's just always different andI that really for me as my
(05:25):
mental state, like I really needthat.
I need the new stuff and the newadventures for itself.
That's kind of how I got intosimulation.
There wasn't a direct path, butonce I got in, it kind of just
was full steam ahead and reallycame my life and how are you
liking the new center from yourmove?
I really like it.
It's, it's a, it's a biggercenter.
So Fairbanks was a pretty largecenter and then Bloomington was
(05:46):
a little bit smaller.
My last Sim Center they wereboth the IU IU Health kind of
combination centers, butBloomington was about 12,000
square feet and we had a smallstrong team, but a small team.
There was the director myself,and then we had one other
full-time person and so now Icame here and it's 60,000 square
feet.
We serve every discipline underthe sun in healthcare here at
(06:08):
Belmont we have a very largeteam of dedicated staff and
working with this.
So that's been the biggestchanges is not having to.
I know a lot of centers havelike one man hats.
Where they have to, they're theeducator, they're the tech,
they're the.
You know they do all thosethings and I kind of went from a
place where I had more than onerole under my hat and now I'm
coming here and we havededicated people and it's just
it's really exciting to haveactual educators, which we had
(06:31):
at Bloomington, but we havededicated education staff, we
have dedicated IT people, wehave a dedicated person that
just works on inventory andsupplies and it's just like.
This is amazing.
It really is just like how coolcan a Simpsons be?
And I really stumbled into itand got lucky coming here.
Jerrod Jeffries (06:48):
And just to recap, then you went from
Indianapolis at Fairbanks, thenyou went down to Bloomington,
indiana, for Indiana Universityof Bloomington and they're
trifecta.
Matt Needler (06:57):
They serve the School of Medicine the School of
Nursing and IU Health.
And then I moved down toBloomington as they opened up
their new Sim Center becausethey had all those same entities
, had smaller little one-roomcenters and then they built this
beautiful new center that wasattached to the hospital and I
(07:20):
sort of came on right as theywere opening that and got lucky
and really liked it.
I started out as a tech up inIndy and then when I moved to
Bloomington I transitioned intoa coordinator role and then down
here I've transitioned intodirector of operations.
So really a tech level up, kindof working my way up the chain
of simulation that's great.
Deb Tauber (07:39):
Great, and I know that the center has been
accredited by the Society forSimulation and Healthcare, so
you have a lot of history withthe society and you're one of
the first 100 people worldwideto have both the CHSOS and the
CHSE certification.
And how do you think this hasinfluenced your practice and
(07:59):
which test was harder?
Matt Needler (08:03):
I think the CHSOS was harder because I wasn't used
to that style of testing.
The first time I took the CHSOSI did not pass.
I just wasn't used to thatstyle of testing and it was
interesting.
And then I got more educationwith my old manager up at
Fairbanks.
We really sat down and wentthrough things more
constructively and so I knewlike, oh, this is.
I kind of went in and I justtook it in a different way and I
(08:25):
had not done that.
And so then, kind of knowinghow the tests work and how to
kind of answer where they giveyou one that's kind of right,
one that's really right, and soit was just they're not trying
to trick you, they're justreally trying to push your
knowledge and make sure you kindof understand what you're doing
.
But I just wasn't used to thatthe first time.
So for me the CHSOS was harder.
The CHSE was a continuationbecause I was in grad school for
(08:48):
education, so it was reallyhitting home on all the things I
was talking about or learningabout in school and so it was
almost like I was getting doubleloaded and so for me it was a
little bit easier.
But it's really influenced mypractice in that now I kind of
understand the whole.
I think when you just do one orI wish I could push on text, if
anything one of the big ones isyou got to get both.
You have to understand the techside.
(09:09):
But if you just know the techand you're not getting all the
reasoning behind why we're doingthe certain, you know we're
doing a task and you're tryingto get mastery and you're doing
a behavior.
So behavior is three kind ofcoming into that.
If you don't get any of that,it's kind of hard to get the
full picture of what simulationis.
So for me they're two sides ofthe same coin and you really
need both.
And so for me it's been hugeand just helping me understand
(09:30):
the whole picture of what we'redoing here in simulation and
talking to the language.
It really helps too, like,especially if you're on a team
where you're kind of doing bothops and education.
It really helps when you go,sit down with the faculty and
you start designing the SAMs, toreally understand oh, this is
the whole process, this is whywe're doing this and not missing
any of those pieces.
So for me I think it's been aholistic kind of journey that's
(09:52):
made me see the both sides of it.
Deb Tauber (09:54):
Very good.
Jerrod Jeffries (09:55):
But so, just going on that though, I do want
to tap more into back whatyou're doing now as the director
of operations at Belmont.
Tap more into back what you'redoing now as the director of
operations at Belmont.
Yeah, so, when it comes to kindof how large your center is and
and all the different, I mean,I would say you wear a lot of
hats as well, but how how
do
how do you balance all this with everything
(10:16):
?
Matt Needler (10:17):
I think I I'm very lucky here.
I have a very strong teamworking with me.
So we, when I got down here, wekind of did a little bit of
reshuffling and so now we have amanager who kind of oversees
the Hi-Fi sort of section, andthen we have a manager who kind
of oversees the SBE, osce side,and then we have a manager in
the middle that he floats andhelps with supply and inventory
(10:38):
and all those things.
So my role is kind ofoverseeing everything operations
, operations, the running ofHiFi Sims, the day-to-day
interactions of orderingsupplies and testing mannequins
and training these guys andgetting them off to trainings
and some of those things.
So I think really how I balanceit is by having such a strong
team, like these guys are thebest of the best and it really I
got lucky to come into thisbusiness and work with these
(11:00):
guys.
But also I always have to give ashout out to my wife.
I couldn't do it without her.
She really helps with, you know, when I have to stay late for a
training or, you know, helpingdevelop something.
She's been really helpful andjust moved down to Nashville
with me and so I will give ashout out to the team, but also
my home life.
My wife helps me get throughthese things, yeah certainly.
Deb Tauber (11:20):
Yeah, very nice.
Now you went from Indiana toTennessee.
And how's that been?
How do you like it?
And what's interesting is, bothof you have been in Indiana and
Tennessee.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (11:32):
Yeah we were just talking about that
.
Matt Needler (11:34):
Yeah, right before that, actually, you're from
Bloomington or you went toschool there, right?
I went to school, yeah,bloomington.
So I got my undergrad fromactually Indianapolis and then
my grad degree was fromBloomington and then I worked
there.
But, yeah, it's been reallyawesome.
Nashville is a lot of fun.
I'm a big brewery guy, I lovebreweries, and so there's no
limit to things to eat and drinkdown here.
(11:55):
It's a lot of fun and it wasclose to home too.
And we were kind of talkingabout this before.
When you look at simulations,sometimes you have to kind of
especially as you move up, youknow, you might go from tech to
manager to director.
As you start going up thosethings, sometimes you have to
travel to where there's an openposition.
You know, my last job there, mydirector wasn't going anywhere.
You know, dave was awesome, youknow, but he had a long while
(12:21):
to go.
So I knew I was like, well,where am I, where am I thinking,
when am I going to go?
And some of them were Florida oryou know, like I was looking
all over the country really, andeven some, you know, across the
sea, and then I saw Nashville.
I was like this is only fourhours away.
I have to apply.
This is too good, and so it'sstill close to home and I can go
back home and still see familyfor Thanksgiving and it feels
far away sometimes, but thenother times it really doesn't.
But Nashville has been a lot offun.
(12:43):
The people down here have beenreally welcoming, the scene here
is really fun for music and I'mreally into music and country
music especially, so that's beena lot of fun getting to come
down here and see some of that.
So, yeah, I couldn't be happier.
The big highlight of the firstfew weeks I was here was the 4th
of July.
Nashville's fireworks wereinsane and we watched it from
(13:03):
the fifth floor of the Belmontmed school building and so you
could just look out and see theentire Nashville skyline.
And it was.
It was very awesome.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim S (13:12):
So yeah it's been great yeah.
Matt Needler (13:13):
And a lot of fun, well, I guess, yeah, you're from
Nashville, you know how crazythey get down here for their
their fireworks.
I wasn't expecting it and I wasjust like, oh my goodness, this
is.
This is wild, bigger, one ofthe biggest ones I've ever been
to um for fireworks displaysyeah, that's great, and I mean
belmont's lucky to have you,matt I.
Jerrod Jeffries (13:29):
I think that seeing what you've, you know,
done and how much you've learnedand able to kind of leave an
impression on your, yourprevious institutions and you do
have you do have a lot to chewnow.
I mean, this is belmont's, abig, beautiful center yeah it.
Matt Needler (13:42):
When I came down here for the tour, when I was
interviewing and I just keptwalking around and be like, oh
my goodness, and like we saw ourlike the front of the building
just to even before you even gotinto the center, I was like
this looks like a Coliseum, likethis.
It was just so pretty thearchitecture down here and the
school is a really good school.
They care about their employeesand there good benefits, so it
was just like the perfect.
It could not be happier andfound a better spot to go.
Deb Tauber (14:04):
Yeah, I had the pleasure of going down for
SimGhosts.
Matt Needler (14:16):
Yeah, well, that was fun too.
I got brought on so I was theco-chair for SSA or for SimOps
this last year and so I've beenworking all year with the
planning team and be on theplanning committee for that.
And then I got down here and inthis new role, I got put onto
the planning committee for simghost and so I literally like,
was doing both and then I wentand was gone for a week for sim
ops and then I came back and itwas less than a week later with
sim ghost and so it was justback to back.
(14:37):
It was.
It was really, although luckyfor me, I really got to see the
behind the scenes of both ofthese big simulation tech
conferences and just getting tosee how they both do stuff.
It was just so incredibly luckyNot very many people can say
they can be on the planningcommittee for both of these
giant simulation technicianconferences.
Deb Tauber (14:56):
You're a pretty humble guy, though I don't like
to brag, it's one of thosethings I still feel just
incredibly lucky to havestumbled.
Matt Needler (15:03):
I was just a philosophy major, what was?
I don't like to brag.
It's one of those things Istill feel just incredibly lucky
to have stumbled Like.
I was just a philosophy major,Like w hat was
Jerrod Jeffries (15:08):
was I going to do?
Matt Needler (15:08):
There's not a lot of philosophy factories around,
so I was like what am I evengoing to do with this?
And then I stumbled into thisand just fell in love and then
just got incredibly lucky overand over again and got just the
best mentors you can have.
And then moving, movingdifferent places and getting
directors that are reallysupportive and want to see you
grow, is just it's, it's the keyto the job and I just I don't
think too much about myself, wasanything special to do these
(15:31):
things, but it really was thelucky opportunities I got and to
really push myself.
Jerrod Jeffries (15:35):
um, I think it was the luck of the game, but
yeah, going through all thesedifferent chapters in simulation
, for lack of a better word,what's your favorite or most
impactful simulation story?
Matt Needler (15:46):
I think, the biggest impactful one.
I think that still sticks withme to this day and really like
hit home why we do what we do.
It was working at Fairbanks andwe were doing a residency sim
and what the team had designedwas this simulation mannequin
that could fill his for like anupper GI bleed and his throat
would fill with blood.
So they there was a couple ofiterations they had worked
(16:07):
through, but the final one wasthis fish tank, I mean a big
bucket they put a fish pump intoand they would fill it with
blood well, simulated blood,obviously and then there was a
wireless start-stop button so wecould sit in the control
station, hit the start buttonand it would just start pumping
blood into this mannequin'sthroat.
And so it was an oldermannequin and again, you always
save your old mannequins becauseyou never know what you could
build with them.
But we basically rigged it upto go into his chest and then up
(16:30):
inside of him to his throat,and it would just fill with
blood.
And so we were running aresidency sim where they had to
come in and intubate whiletrying to also suction, and it
was just a crazy cool sim, oneof those sims you dream, dream
about, you know the fun oneswhere it's just like tons of
blood and they're workingthrough it.
But anyway, um, it was abouttwo weeks later.
One of those residents cameback and said I, this was a rare
(16:50):
one of those rare high stakessimulations that you know we
always talk about.
But he came back in a coupleweeks later.
He was like this happened.
I was at work and this came inand I knew what to do because of
this simulation we did, and Iwas just like like this is why
we do this, like these guys thechance to practice on things
that they, you know, we don'twant to see in real.
Obviously you don't want to see, you know, like I think of like
(17:12):
OB rotations and things likethat, where you know we all want
to see happy, healthy,delivered babies.
But you know, sometimes you'regoing to run into an abruption
in our shoulder, to an abruptionin our shoulder, stosha, and
the beauty of SAM is we can saywe're going to get you some
hands-on practice with this sothat you can help when the time
actually arises.
So it just really blew my mindwhen that happened and it was
one of those moments that havealways stuck with me Like.
This is why we do what we do.
(17:33):
We give them the practice, wehelp them so that when they go
out and are with real patients,they're so much better off for
it.
So that was, that was my big one.
I think that'll always stickwith me.
I was just like oh my gosh.
Deb Tauber (17:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Now do you have any final wordsthat you'd like to leave our
listeners with?
Matt Needler (18:17):
no-transcript Like what's what's?
The worst that can happen isthey say no and you move on.
You know you miss all thoseopportunities.
It reminds me of.
I'm sure you guys have seen thatmeme from the office where it's
like you miss a hundred percentof the shots you don't take
(18:39):
Wayne Gretzky, and thenunderneath it's like Michael
Scott.
So I'm going to do another,underlined Matt Needler.
But yeah, it's one of those.
It truly is one of those thingsthat just just ask, just try,
and you know, the worst case isthey say no and you move on and
you'll try something else.
But you'll never get theopportunities to do some of
these things unless you startasking for them.
And so that's kind of what mybiggest takeaway is how I've
(19:00):
progressed in my career and gonefrom thing to you know spot and
new opportunities was justsimply asking or applying and
saying I'm going to go for it.
What's when?
I, when I saw this positionopen up, I was, you know, a
little hesitant to apply and Iwas like I don't know, like, am
I far enough along in my career?
Am I, you know, do I have theright things and the right
degree?
You know all these things, youknow that go through your head
when you see these things.
But I was like, well, I'm just,I'm going to go for it.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (19:21):
You know what's the worst that
happened?
Matt Needler (19:22):
They'll say no.
And then I got this interview,and then I got the second
interview, and then the third.
You what's the worst that canhappen?
They'll say no.
So if I can part anything toanybody, it's that it's go for
it, just ask.
Deb Tauber (19:38):
And Matt, if our listeners wanted to get a hold
of you, where could they do that?
Matt Needler (19:42):
On LinkedIn.
Matthew Needler on LinkedIn isa really big one.
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn Itry to be anyway.
And sure, I found thiscommunity is we do these things.
I wish we could show somebodythese cool task centers you
build.
Or oh, I'm trying this newprocess with AI.
How can I share that withpeople?
And then I found really agrowing community on LinkedIn
where people are posting likehey, I did this thing.
It's kind of cool.
(20:02):
It's like, yes, that is prettycool.
I want to see that.
So I think LinkedIn is the bigone.
But also they could reach outto me at matthewneedler@ belmont
.
edu or yeah, those are probablythe two easiest ones is by email
or connecting with me onLinkedIn.
A lot of people I'm connectedwith and I meet at these
conferences.
They're like oh, we follow eachother.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (20:20):
I'm like oh, I think I do.
Matt Needler (20:21):
I follow.
When I started getting intothis and realizing people around
LinkedIn doing stuff, I just Ityped in like simulationist and
anybody that had that job.
I just started adding peoplejust trying to be like I want to
follow people doing so.
It's kind of funny.
People doing so it's kind offunny.
People will be like oh, I knowyou from there.
I'm like oh, yeah, yeah, andthey'll talk to me.
But they always joke.
They're like I recognize yourbeard.
My little profile picturealways has my beard.
So I always say also, I go to alot of conferences.
(20:44):
I try to go to IMSH every year.
So if you see me, please stoptalk to me.
Say hi, I love talking shop,always down to talk, simulation
you to just look for the giantbeard and tattoos.
I got to be where they find me.
Thank you, and I'll be at IMSHthis year.
I did find out a couple of mypresentations got accepted, so
I'm really excited to go thisyear in San.
(21:04):
Antonio and looking forward tothat.
So that'll be the next bigconference I go to.
So if anybody also just wantsto wait, tap on my shoulder
there and start talking.
I'm more than welcome to chatthere.
Deb Tauber (21:15):
What are you going to present?
Matt Needler (21:16):
So I'm doing a hot topic on learning theories for
the simulationist.
Oh good, talking about how thetech level learning, all these
learning theories are.
It's one of my biggest passionsis really getting techs to
realize they're an integral partof the education, and how we do
this and knowing the theoriesbehind some of the things will
give them a more completepicture of what's going on and
(21:37):
help them one, you know,understand the simulation, what
we're doing, but also advance intheir career and try to move up
ladders, because there'smultiple avenues to move up in
simulation.
It's not and I I like to pushthat like, remember, like as
techs, you can make a career outof being a tech.
You know, this is a field whereyou can grow within this and
really push yourself and rise up.
(21:57):
You know, be a manager.
Then, you know, and it canstart out as a tech A lot of.
I think our new SSH president,he started out as a tech, like
it's just kind of nuts, you know, because sometimes you see
these big centers and they'rerun by doctor, you know, and all
good and good things like that.
(22:17):
But there is a path for techsto move up and do these things
strictly from a tech background.
So a little bit of a thing Ialways try to push out to some
of these new techs coming in andto the field is that this can
be a career.
You can really make a lot outof it if you want.
Deb Tauber (22:26):
Right, no, that's good.
That's one I'm presenting on.
Matt Needler (22:29):
The other one is on AI and how to integrate it
into your simulations that arefrom inventory to simulated
patients and all kinds of.
We're helping it.
We're piloting right now hereat Belmont we're trying to make
a system for nurses so they canpractice soap notes and so they
would get a situation and give asoap note and then it would
give immediate feedback on howthey, what they did well, what
(22:50):
they can improve on.
It could be a thing they takewith them, just an app on their
phone.
So we're doing some really funstuff with AI and simulation.
And so my hot topic, one thatI'm just presenting by myself,
is on learning theories for thesimulationists, and then the AI
one is with my director, daniel,and then my old director, david
, from IU.
So it was kind of fun that weall we kind of collaborated my
(23:11):
director here and my directorfrom my home center in IU.
We're all kind of comingtogether and presenting on,
because he's he's doing a lot ofreally strong work in ai at iu
too.
So we kind of all came together.
We're like, hey, we're all kindof talking about this, let's
just do a discussion and paneltogether and then do a little
workshop on how to build thesegbts and so yeah, that'll be an
interesting topic, yeah so Ithink there's going to be a lot
(23:34):
of really good.
Jerrod Jeffries (23:34):
From the sounds of it, there's gonna be a lot
of really good stuff at IMSHthis year and I love that too
matt, because I mean, I I feellike every nurse tech
simulationist instructor is, soI'm poor and I think AI can,
at least you know, alleviatesome of that stress in terms of
giving it back.
Matt Needler (23:51):
And so I'm gonna sit in on that as well, because
I think there's a lot of coolstuff and a lot of things that
can make our lives easier andstreamlined, and just especially
, like you said, you know some,especially for places that one
person wearing multiple hatsyeah, be a resource to
streamline things.
It can cut costs on things too.
It's just a lot of really funstuff that's going on with it,
so I think there's going to besome good discussion to be had.
Deb Tauber (24:15):
Yeah, great.
Well, thank you so much and wewill Thank you for having me.
We really appreciate your timeand all your contributions and
look forward to seeing you atIMSH.
Matt Needler (24:25):
Yeah, really excited to see you guys there.
Deb Tauber (24:26):
Thank you.
Thanks, Matt.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (24:28):
Bye , happy simulating.
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(00:20):
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Join our host, Deb Tauber, andco-host, Jerrod Jeffries as they
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Clinical education and the useof simulation.
(01:25):
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Deb Tauber (01:40):
Welcome to another episode of the Sim Cafe.
And today we're here withMatthew Needler who likes to be
called Matt who's the Directorof Operations at the Center for
Interprofessional Engagement andSimulation at Belmont
University, where he overseesdaily operations, leads a team
of technicians and collaborateswith faculty to design
high-fidelity simulationexperiences for healthcare
(02:03):
students and professionals.
His background includes servingas a combat medic in the Army
National Guard and he's hadhands-on roles in healthcare and
nearly a decade of advancing inmedical simulation.
He holds dual certificationsfor the CHSOS and the CHSE from
(02:30):
the Society for Simulation andHealthcare, and he has a
master's in adult education.
Outside of work, he's a proudfather of three and husband and
passionate about music, tattoosand family.
So thank you, Matt.
Matt Needler (02:39):
Thank you, yeah, thank you, thanks for having me
on.
I'm really excited to talk toyou guys.
And yeah, kind of on to alittle bit of my journey.
I will make one side thing aswe get going.
I'm almost got my.
I am in my very last semesterof my master's in education.
I'm in my capstone right now,just wrapping it up, so I don't
see anything major issueshappening.
Jerrod Jeffries (03:00):
But come December this this December I
will officially have the MSEB.
I'm really excited for that.
Oh great, yeah, well, cheeringyou on from the sidelines here,
Matt M, but, but, but, I want to.
I want to hear more about yourjourney into simulation.
I mean, you've been before we,before we started recording.
We we're talking a little bit,but I want to hear you popped
around a few places, so so giveus some more detail.
Matt Needler (03:20):
Um, I kind of have a weird kind of background
getting into simulation.
I joined the military as amedic and so I had this medical
background and I was like whatam I going to do with this?
And I kind of started going tocollege and I was working in
physical therapy and wound careand I also used to clean carpets
at night, and so I would go toclass all day, go to clean
(03:40):
carpets at night and then thenext day come in and do physical
therapy all day, and then thatwas just my life for several
years.
And so I got done with mydegree.
I actually got my degree inphilosophy, of all things, and
which always cracks me up, thejust the people that get into
sim.
It's can be nurses, it can beeverything, but it can also just
be like actors or people likeme with random philosophy
degrees.
And so I kind of just stumbledinto simulation on accident.
(04:02):
I saw it was there was anopening at the simulation center
at Fairbanks and I was likethis looks cool, because I used
to do simulation in the military.
Granted, I was the learner andon the other side with the
mannequins, but I always thoughtit was kind of cool and I saw
an opening.
I was like I'm just gonna apply.
You know what's the worst thatcan happen?
And I ended up.
It was really awesomeexperiences going in there and
(04:23):
touring and ended up getting thejob.
And then I just kind of fell inlove with it and I kind of
started dedicating everything Idid to learning more and I got
my CHSOS, and then I got my CHSE, and then I started presenting
at conferences and like I justI've heard it.
Once you know you get by thebug of simulation and then you
just realize this is an awesomejob.
How have I never heard of thisLike?
(04:43):
And then you just realize thisis an awesome job.
How have I never heard of thisLike?
I think it's like Shablack.
David Shablack always says it'slike the coolest job nobody's
heard of.
And that really was how thiskind of was for me.
I didn't plan on it or mean to,but now that I'm here I love it
and I can't picture doinganything else now.
Like I get to work with fakeblood and do one thing one day,
then something else the next day, and that's really what drove
(05:03):
me in when I was doing physicaltherapy.
It was kind of the same thingevery single day, not always,
but a little bit of that mindset.
Whereas in simulation like oneday you're working with peds,
the next day you're doingemergency medicine, the next day
you're helping with OB-SIMs andyou're going into the hospital
or nope, this time we'redesigning a fake.
You know disaster with likemoulage and you know it's like.
It's just always different andI that really for me as my
(05:25):
mental state, like I really needthat.
I need the new stuff and the newadventures for itself.
That's kind of how I got intosimulation.
There wasn't a direct path, butonce I got in, it kind of just
was full steam ahead and reallycame my life and how are you
liking the new center from yourmove?
I really like it.
It's, it's a, it's a biggercenter.
So Fairbanks was a pretty largecenter and then Bloomington was
(05:46):
a little bit smaller.
My last Sim Center they wereboth the IU IU Health kind of
combination centers, butBloomington was about 12,000
square feet and we had a smallstrong team, but a small team.
There was the director myself,and then we had one other
full-time person and so now Icame here and it's 60,000 square
feet.
We serve every discipline underthe sun in healthcare here at
(06:08):
Belmont we have a very largeteam of dedicated staff and
working with this.
So that's been the biggestchanges is not having to.
I know a lot of centers havelike one man hats.
Where they have to, they're theeducator, they're the tech,
they're the.
You know they do all thosethings and I kind of went from a
place where I had more than onerole under my hat and now I'm
coming here and we havededicated people and it's just
it's really exciting to haveactual educators, which we had
(06:31):
at Bloomington, but we havededicated education staff, we
have dedicated IT people, wehave a dedicated person that
just works on inventory andsupplies and it's just like.
This is amazing.
It really is just like how coolcan a Simpsons be?
And I really stumbled into itand got lucky coming here.
Jerrod Jeffries (06:48):
And just to recap, then you went from
Indianapolis at Fairbanks, thenyou went down to Bloomington,
indiana, for Indiana Universityof Bloomington and they're
trifecta.
Matt Needler (06:57):
They serve the School of Medicine the School of
Nursing and IU Health.
And then I moved down toBloomington as they opened up
their new Sim Center becausethey had all those same entities
, had smaller little one-roomcenters and then they built this
beautiful new center that wasattached to the hospital and I
(07:20):
sort of came on right as theywere opening that and got lucky
and really liked it.
I started out as a tech up inIndy and then when I moved to
Bloomington I transitioned intoa coordinator role and then down
here I've transitioned intodirector of operations.
So really a tech level up, kindof working my way up the chain
of simulation that's great.
Deb Tauber (07:39):
Great, and I know that the center has been
accredited by the Society forSimulation and Healthcare, so
you have a lot of history withthe society and you're one of
the first 100 people worldwideto have both the CHSOS and the
CHSE certification.
And how do you think this hasinfluenced your practice and
(07:59):
which test was harder?
Matt Needler (08:03):
I think the CHSOS was harder because I wasn't used
to that style of testing.
The first time I took the CHSOSI did not pass.
I just wasn't used to thatstyle of testing and it was
interesting.
And then I got more educationwith my old manager up at
Fairbanks.
We really sat down and wentthrough things more
constructively and so I knewlike, oh, this is.
I kind of went in and I justtook it in a different way and I
(08:25):
had not done that.
And so then, kind of knowinghow the tests work and how to
kind of answer where they giveyou one that's kind of right,
one that's really right, and soit was just they're not trying
to trick you, they're justreally trying to push your
knowledge and make sure you kindof understand what you're doing
.
But I just wasn't used to thatthe first time.
So for me the CHSOS was harder.
The CHSE was a continuationbecause I was in grad school for
(08:48):
education, so it was reallyhitting home on all the things I
was talking about or learningabout in school and so it was
almost like I was getting doubleloaded and so for me it was a
little bit easier.
But it's really influenced mypractice in that now I kind of
understand the whole.
I think when you just do one orI wish I could push on text, if
anything one of the big ones isyou got to get both.
You have to understand the techside.
(09:09):
But if you just know the techand you're not getting all the
reasoning behind why we're doingthe certain, you know we're
doing a task and you're tryingto get mastery and you're doing
a behavior.
So behavior is three kind ofcoming into that.
If you don't get any of that,it's kind of hard to get the
full picture of what simulationis.
So for me they're two sides ofthe same coin and you really
need both.
And so for me it's been hugeand just helping me understand
(09:30):
the whole picture of what we'redoing here in simulation and
talking to the language.
It really helps too, like,especially if you're on a team
where you're kind of doing bothops and education.
It really helps when you go,sit down with the faculty and
you start designing the SAMs, toreally understand oh, this is
the whole process, this is whywe're doing this and not missing
any of those pieces.
So for me I think it's been aholistic kind of journey that's
(09:52):
made me see the both sides of it.
Deb Tauber (09:54):
Very good.
Jerrod Jeffries (09:55):
But so, just going on that though, I do want
to tap more into back whatyou're doing now as the director
of operations at Belmont.
Tap more into back what you'redoing now as the director of
operations at Belmont.
Yeah, so, when it comes to kindof how large your center is and
and all the different, I mean,I would say you wear a lot of
hats as well, but how how
do
how do you balance all this with everything
(10:16):
?
Matt Needler (10:17):
I think I I'm very lucky here.
I have a very strong teamworking with me.
So we, when I got down here, wekind of did a little bit of
reshuffling and so now we have amanager who kind of oversees
the Hi-Fi sort of section, andthen we have a manager who kind
of oversees the SBE, osce side,and then we have a manager in
the middle that he floats andhelps with supply and inventory
(10:38):
and all those things.
So my role is kind ofoverseeing everything operations
, operations, the running ofHiFi Sims, the day-to-day
interactions of orderingsupplies and testing mannequins
and training these guys andgetting them off to trainings
and some of those things.
So I think really how I balanceit is by having such a strong
team, like these guys are thebest of the best and it really I
got lucky to come into thisbusiness and work with these
(11:00):
guys.
But also I always have to give ashout out to my wife.
I couldn't do it without her.
She really helps with, you know, when I have to stay late for a
training or, you know, helpingdevelop something.
She's been really helpful andjust moved down to Nashville
with me and so I will give ashout out to the team, but also
my home life.
My wife helps me get throughthese things, yeah certainly.
Deb Tauber (11:20):
Yeah, very nice.
Now you went from Indiana toTennessee.
And how's that been?
How do you like it?
And what's interesting is, bothof you have been in Indiana and
Tennessee.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (11:32):
Yeah we were just talking about that
.
Matt Needler (11:34):
Yeah, right before that, actually, you're from
Bloomington or you went toschool there, right?
I went to school, yeah,bloomington.
So I got my undergrad fromactually Indianapolis and then
my grad degree was fromBloomington and then I worked
there.
But, yeah, it's been reallyawesome.
Nashville is a lot of fun.
I'm a big brewery guy, I lovebreweries, and so there's no
limit to things to eat and drinkdown here.
(11:55):
It's a lot of fun and it wasclose to home too.
And we were kind of talkingabout this before.
When you look at simulations,sometimes you have to kind of
especially as you move up, youknow, you might go from tech to
manager to director.
As you start going up thosethings, sometimes you have to
travel to where there's an openposition.
You know, my last job there, mydirector wasn't going anywhere.
You know, dave was awesome, youknow, but he had a long while
(12:21):
to go.
So I knew I was like, well,where am I, where am I thinking,
when am I going to go?
And some of them were Florida oryou know, like I was looking
all over the country really, andeven some, you know, across the
sea, and then I saw Nashville.
I was like this is only fourhours away.
I have to apply.
This is too good, and so it'sstill close to home and I can go
back home and still see familyfor Thanksgiving and it feels
far away sometimes, but thenother times it really doesn't.
But Nashville has been a lot offun.
(12:43):
The people down here have beenreally welcoming, the scene here
is really fun for music and I'mreally into music and country
music especially, so that's beena lot of fun getting to come
down here and see some of that.
So, yeah, I couldn't be happier.
The big highlight of the firstfew weeks I was here was the 4th
of July.
Nashville's fireworks wereinsane and we watched it from
(13:03):
the fifth floor of the Belmontmed school building and so you
could just look out and see theentire Nashville skyline.
And it was.
It was very awesome.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim S (13:12):
So yeah it's been great yeah.
Matt Needler (13:13):
And a lot of fun, well, I guess, yeah, you're from
Nashville, you know how crazythey get down here for their
their fireworks.
I wasn't expecting it and I wasjust like, oh my goodness, this
is.
This is wild, bigger, one ofthe biggest ones I've ever been
to um for fireworks displaysyeah, that's great, and I mean
belmont's lucky to have you,matt I.
Jerrod Jeffries (13:29):
I think that seeing what you've, you know,
done and how much you've learnedand able to kind of leave an
impression on your, yourprevious institutions and you do
have you do have a lot to chewnow.
I mean, this is belmont's, abig, beautiful center yeah it.
Matt Needler (13:42):
When I came down here for the tour, when I was
interviewing and I just keptwalking around and be like, oh
my goodness, and like we saw ourlike the front of the building
just to even before you even gotinto the center, I was like
this looks like a Coliseum, likethis.
It was just so pretty thearchitecture down here and the
school is a really good school.
They care about their employeesand there good benefits, so it
was just like the perfect.
It could not be happier andfound a better spot to go.
Deb Tauber (14:04):
Yeah, I had the pleasure of going down for
SimGhosts.
Matt Needler (14:16):
Yeah, well, that was fun too.
I got brought on so I was theco-chair for SSA or for SimOps
this last year and so I've beenworking all year with the
planning team and be on theplanning committee for that.
And then I got down here and inthis new role, I got put onto
the planning committee for simghost and so I literally like,
was doing both and then I wentand was gone for a week for sim
ops and then I came back and itwas less than a week later with
sim ghost and so it was justback to back.
(14:37):
It was.
It was really, although luckyfor me, I really got to see the
behind the scenes of both ofthese big simulation tech
conferences and just getting tosee how they both do stuff.
It was just so incredibly luckyNot very many people can say
they can be on the planningcommittee for both of these
giant simulation technicianconferences.
Deb Tauber (14:56):
You're a pretty humble guy, though I don't like
to brag, it's one of thosethings I still feel just
incredibly lucky to havestumbled.
Matt Needler (15:03):
I was just a philosophy major, what was?
I don't like to brag.
It's one of those things Istill feel just incredibly lucky
to have stumbled Like.
I was just a philosophy major,Like w hat was
Jerrod Jeffries (15:08):
was I going to do?
Matt Needler (15:08):
There's not a lot of philosophy factories around,
so I was like what am I evengoing to do with this?
And then I stumbled into thisand just fell in love and then
just got incredibly lucky overand over again and got just the
best mentors you can have.
And then moving, movingdifferent places and getting
directors that are reallysupportive and want to see you
grow, is just it's, it's the keyto the job and I just I don't
think too much about myself, wasanything special to do these
(15:31):
things, but it really was thelucky opportunities I got and to
really push myself.
Jerrod Jeffries (15:35):
um, I think it was the luck of the game, but
yeah, going through all thesedifferent chapters in simulation
, for lack of a better word,what's your favorite or most
impactful simulation story?
Matt Needler (15:46):
I think, the biggest impactful one.
I think that still sticks withme to this day and really like
hit home why we do what we do.
It was working at Fairbanks andwe were doing a residency sim
and what the team had designedwas this simulation mannequin
that could fill his for like anupper GI bleed and his throat
would fill with blood.
So they there was a couple ofiterations they had worked
(16:07):
through, but the final one wasthis fish tank, I mean a big
bucket they put a fish pump intoand they would fill it with
blood well, simulated blood,obviously and then there was a
wireless start-stop button so wecould sit in the control
station, hit the start buttonand it would just start pumping
blood into this mannequin'sthroat.
And so it was an oldermannequin and again, you always
save your old mannequins becauseyou never know what you could
build with them.
But we basically rigged it upto go into his chest and then up
(16:30):
inside of him to his throat,and it would just fill with
blood.
And so we were running aresidency sim where they had to
come in and intubate whiletrying to also suction, and it
was just a crazy cool sim, oneof those sims you dream, dream
about, you know the fun oneswhere it's just like tons of
blood and they're workingthrough it.
But anyway, um, it was abouttwo weeks later.
One of those residents cameback and said I, this was a rare
(16:50):
one of those rare high stakessimulations that you know we
always talk about.
But he came back in a coupleweeks later.
He was like this happened.
I was at work and this came inand I knew what to do because of
this simulation we did, and Iwas just like like this is why
we do this, like these guys thechance to practice on things
that they, you know, we don'twant to see in real.
Obviously you don't want to see, you know, like I think of like
(17:12):
OB rotations and things likethat, where you know we all want
to see happy, healthy,delivered babies.
But you know, sometimes you'regoing to run into an abruption
in our shoulder, to an abruptionin our shoulder, stosha, and
the beauty of SAM is we can saywe're going to get you some
hands-on practice with this sothat you can help when the time
actually arises.
So it just really blew my mindwhen that happened and it was
one of those moments that havealways stuck with me Like.
This is why we do what we do.
(17:33):
We give them the practice, wehelp them so that when they go
out and are with real patients,they're so much better off for
it.
So that was, that was my big one.
I think that'll always stickwith me.
I was just like oh my gosh.
Deb Tauber (17:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Now do you have any final wordsthat you'd like to leave our
listeners with?
Matt Needler (18:17):
no-transcript Like what's what's?
The worst that can happen isthey say no and you move on.
You know you miss all thoseopportunities.
It reminds me of.
I'm sure you guys have seen thatmeme from the office where it's
like you miss a hundred percentof the shots you don't take
(18:39):
Wayne Gretzky, and thenunderneath it's like Michael
Scott.
So I'm going to do another,underlined Matt Needler.
But yeah, it's one of those.
It truly is one of those thingsthat just just ask, just try,
and you know, the worst case isthey say no and you move on and
you'll try something else.
But you'll never get theopportunities to do some of
these things unless you startasking for them.
And so that's kind of what mybiggest takeaway is how I've
(19:00):
progressed in my career and gonefrom thing to you know spot and
new opportunities was justsimply asking or applying and
saying I'm going to go for it.
What's when?
I, when I saw this positionopen up, I was, you know, a
little hesitant to apply and Iwas like I don't know, like, am
I far enough along in my career?
Am I, you know, do I have theright things and the right
degree?
You know all these things, youknow that go through your head
when you see these things.
But I was like, well, I'm just,I'm going to go for it.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (19:21):
You know what's the worst that
happened?
Matt Needler (19:22):
They'll say no.
And then I got this interview,and then I got the second
interview, and then the third.
You what's the worst that canhappen?
They'll say no.
So if I can part anything toanybody, it's that it's go for
it, just ask.
Deb Tauber (19:38):
And Matt, if our listeners wanted to get a hold
of you, where could they do that?
Matt Needler (19:42):
On LinkedIn.
Matthew Needler on LinkedIn isa really big one.
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn Itry to be anyway.
And sure, I found thiscommunity is we do these things.
I wish we could show somebodythese cool task centers you
build.
Or oh, I'm trying this newprocess with AI.
How can I share that withpeople?
And then I found really agrowing community on LinkedIn
where people are posting likehey, I did this thing.
It's kind of cool.
(20:02):
It's like, yes, that is prettycool.
I want to see that.
So I think LinkedIn is the bigone.
But also they could reach outto me at matthewneedler@ belmont
.
edu or yeah, those are probablythe two easiest ones is by email
or connecting with me onLinkedIn.
A lot of people I'm connectedwith and I meet at these
conferences.
They're like oh, we follow eachother.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (20:20):
I'm like oh, I think I do.
Matt Needler (20:21):
I follow.
When I started getting intothis and realizing people around
LinkedIn doing stuff, I just Ityped in like simulationist and
anybody that had that job.
I just started adding peoplejust trying to be like I want to
follow people doing so.
It's kind of funny.
People doing so it's kind offunny.
People will be like oh, I knowyou from there.
I'm like oh, yeah, yeah, andthey'll talk to me.
But they always joke.
They're like I recognize yourbeard.
My little profile picturealways has my beard.
So I always say also, I go to alot of conferences.
(20:44):
I try to go to IMSH every year.
So if you see me, please stoptalk to me.
Say hi, I love talking shop,always down to talk, simulation
you to just look for the giantbeard and tattoos.
I got to be where they find me.
Thank you, and I'll be at IMSHthis year.
I did find out a couple of mypresentations got accepted, so
I'm really excited to go thisyear in San.
(21:04):
Antonio and looking forward tothat.
So that'll be the next bigconference I go to.
So if anybody also just wantsto wait, tap on my shoulder
there and start talking.
I'm more than welcome to chatthere.
Deb Tauber (21:15):
What are you going to present?
Matt Needler (21:16):
So I'm doing a hot topic on learning theories for
the simulationist.
Oh good, talking about how thetech level learning, all these
learning theories are.
It's one of my biggest passionsis really getting techs to
realize they're an integral partof the education, and how we do
this and knowing the theoriesbehind some of the things will
give them a more completepicture of what's going on and
(21:37):
help them one, you know,understand the simulation, what
we're doing, but also advance intheir career and try to move up
ladders, because there'smultiple avenues to move up in
simulation.
It's not and I I like to pushthat like, remember, like as
techs, you can make a career outof being a tech.
You know, this is a field whereyou can grow within this and
really push yourself and rise up.
(21:57):
You know, be a manager.
Then, you know, and it canstart out as a tech A lot of.
I think our new SSH president,he started out as a tech, like
it's just kind of nuts, you know, because sometimes you see
these big centers and they'rerun by doctor, you know, and all
good and good things like that.
(22:17):
But there is a path for techsto move up and do these things
strictly from a tech background.
So a little bit of a thing Ialways try to push out to some
of these new techs coming in andto the field is that this can
be a career.
You can really make a lot outof it if you want.
Deb Tauber (22:26):
Right, no, that's good.
That's one I'm presenting on.
Matt Needler (22:29):
The other one is on AI and how to integrate it
into your simulations that arefrom inventory to simulated
patients and all kinds of.
We're helping it.
We're piloting right now hereat Belmont we're trying to make
a system for nurses so they canpractice soap notes and so they
would get a situation and give asoap note and then it would
give immediate feedback on howthey, what they did well, what
(22:50):
they can improve on.
It could be a thing they takewith them, just an app on their
phone.
So we're doing some really funstuff with AI and simulation.
And so my hot topic, one thatI'm just presenting by myself,
is on learning theories for thesimulationists, and then the AI
one is with my director, daniel,and then my old director, david
, from IU.
So it was kind of fun that weall we kind of collaborated my
(23:11):
director here and my directorfrom my home center in IU.
We're all kind of comingtogether and presenting on,
because he's he's doing a lot ofreally strong work in ai at iu
too.
So we kind of all came together.
We're like, hey, we're all kindof talking about this, let's
just do a discussion and paneltogether and then do a little
workshop on how to build thesegbts and so yeah, that'll be an
interesting topic, yeah so Ithink there's going to be a lot
(23:34):
of really good.
Jerrod Jeffries (23:34):
From the sounds of it, there's gonna be a lot
of really good stuff at IMSHthis year and I love that too
matt, because I mean, I I feellike every nurse tech
simulationist instructor is, soI'm poor and I think AI can,
at least you know, alleviatesome of that stress in terms of
giving it back.
Matt Needler (23:51):
And so I'm gonna sit in on that as well, because
I think there's a lot of coolstuff and a lot of things that
can make our lives easier andstreamlined, and just especially
, like you said, you know some,especially for places that one
person wearing multiple hatsyeah, be a resource to
streamline things.
It can cut costs on things too.
It's just a lot of really funstuff that's going on with it,
so I think there's going to besome good discussion to be had.
Deb Tauber (24:15):
Yeah, great.
Well, thank you so much and wewill Thank you for having me.
We really appreciate your timeand all your contributions and
look forward to seeing you atIMSH.
Matt Needler (24:25):
Yeah, really excited to see you guys there.
Deb Tauber (24:26):
Thank you.
Thanks, Matt.
Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (24:28):
Bye , happy simulating.
Thanks again to Innovative SimSolutions for sponsoring this
week's episode.
Ready to revolutionize how youteach and train?
Then check out the basics ofhealthcare simulations with
Innovative Sim Solutions and DebTauber today.
Thanks for joining us here TheSim Cafe.
(24:53):
We hope you enjoyed.
Visit us at www.
innovativesimsolutions.
com and be sure to hit that likeand subscribe button so you
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