February 17, 2025 • 23 mins
Discover the innovative journey of Dawn Schocken, the dynamic Director of Experiential Learning and Simulation at the University of South Florida's Morsani College of Medicine, as she shares the evolution of medical simulation. You'll be inspired by her relentless pursuit of transforming medical education and her influential leadership within the Society for Simulation and Healthcare. As we explore Dawn's experiences, including her critical role in adapting accreditation processes during the pandemic, you'll gain insights into how she plans to invigorate the Society's Fellow Academy with fresh initiatives focused on mentorship and innovation.<br><br>Through the lens of healthcare simulation, we delve into the importance of accreditation standards in safeguarding patient safety and the global impact of simulation education. Learn about Beaker Health, an exciting educational marketplace, and the newly launched standards for human simulation that recognize standardized patients as vital to the educational journey. Join us in understanding how empathy, compassion, and patient perspectives are crucial components in reshaping medical training for future doctors, ensuring they are well-equipped for the challenges of tomorrow's healthcare landscape.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Disclaier/ SimVS ad/ Intro (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in
this program are those of thespeakers and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions orpositions of anyone at
Innovative Sim Solutions or oursponsors.
This week's podcast issponsored Sim VS .
With their new IV pumpsimulators in the first of its
kind in this critical learningarea.
with great realism and advancedlike simulation med orders,
(00:50):
gamified med orders and more!Sim VS significantly reduces
the burden of properly I t TheSim Cafe, a podcast produced by
the team at Innovative SimSolutions, edited by Shelly
Houser.
V VS significantly reduces thburde o properl undefined I V
t o learn in a safe environmentt Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a
podcast produced by the team atInnovative Sim Solutions, edited
by Shelly House r.
Join our host, Deb Tauber andco-host Jerrod Jeffries as they
(01:15):
sit down with subject matterexperts from across the globe to
reimagine clinical educationand the use of simulation.
So pour yourself a cup ofrelaxation, sit back, tune in
and learn something new from TheSim Cafe.
Deb Tauber (01:30):
Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe.
Welcome Jerrod and welcome DawnShocken.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We've got a lot to unpack, solet's get started.
Dawn, why don't you tell usabout yourself and your role in
simulation and how you got intosimulation?
Dawn Shocken (01:48):
Sure, my name is Dawn Schocken.
I work at the University ofSouth Florida in Tampa and I
currently am the Director ofExperiential Learning and
Simulation at USF for MorsaniCollege of Medicine.
When I was in the College ofPublic Health getting my
master's degree, one of myprofessors, who was my advisor,
(02:09):
sat me down and said what isyour goal?
And this was in mid-1980s and Isaid I'd like to change the
face of medical education.
And that is honestly what Isaid to her.
I was like 21.
And she was like looking at me,like okay, sure.
And I said no, seriously,because I had been working as a
(02:31):
diabetes educator and doing someother side jobs.
And I thought, no, that wereally need to change the way
people are taught.
They need to be better atcommunicating, they need to be
better at interacting with theirpatients.
And so I got into this worldfrom the back door saying I
wanted to change medicaleducation and, in my role, where
(02:53):
I am right now, I'm makingchanges.
We are creating much betterdoctors, providing a much safer
environment for our patientsthrough medical simulation.
Deb Tauber (03:06):
Thank you, Dawn, and you definitely are making a
change.
You are absolutely being achange in the face of medicine
and the things that you've donefor the Society for Simulation
and Healthcare are just beyondoverwhelming the stuff that
you've done, and I thank you somuch for that.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners a little bit about
(03:28):
what you do in your volunteerrole for the Society for
Simulation and Healthcare?
Dawn Shocken (03:34):
Well, I've just rotated off the board of
directors, where I served forthree years on the board of
directors for the society.
I have been a member,accreditation committee and then
consul since 2010.
I was originally working inrisk, in a subcommittee of risk,
and then I worked my way intoreviewer education and then I
(03:57):
worked my way into creatingbetter standards and standard
review, better standards andstandard review.
I eventually worked my way upto the chair of the
accreditation council and Iserved in that role during COVID
, which was an interesting timeperiod because we had to pivot
from doing in-person sitereviews to doing site reviews
(04:19):
that were virtual, which was awhole new animal for us.
What do we ask?
How do we know for sure it'sreally happening, what is going
on?
So it was a really interestingexperience.
I did about 20 site reviews inthe first year, which was
completely insane.
That's a lot of people to haveto review.
And then we moved into backfrom COVID.
(04:42):
I was on the board and I wasthe liaison for the
accreditation council.
I also served in a leadershiprole to create our CHSE the
Certified Healthcare SimulationEducator Review Course,
blueprint Review Course thatwe're calling it now, and I've
been doing that probably for 12years, which is crazy.
(05:04):
And then just recently I waselected as the chair of the
academy, the Society forSimulation and Healthcare Fellow
Academy.
So we're making changes thereand I've been very active in SSH
.
It's a fun place for me to play.
Deb Tauber (05:24):
Dawn, you want to talk a little bit about some of
the things you're going to dowith the fellows, sure?
Dawn Shocken (05:30):
I'm going to shake them up.
Deb Tauber (05:33):
So I know what to expect.
Dawn Shocken (05:35):
Yeah, so we've had this academy started in 2017.
And it was originally likerecognition of people who had
done a lot of work for thesociety work for the society,
but with the hope that theywould continue to do more work
for the society and provideleadership and mentorship to
individuals coming into thesociety.
(05:55):
That was originally what wasgoing on when I got elected in.
It wasn't really very active.
I was put on their board ofgovernance and we spent two
years sort of just havingmeetings and not really doing
much.
And then I'm not quite sure howI got elected to the chair.
I don't know if actually I wasasked or I was voluntold, but
(06:19):
suddenly I was elected.
And then I worked for a yearnow at Jill Sanko and I just
felt like we needed to do more.
So I've created a series ofdifferent subcommittees.
So there's an ambassadorcommittee that's going to do
mentorship, but there's alsogoing to be a historical
committee that's doing the.
(06:40):
You know what's going on in thesociety?
How can we create a legacy?
There's a section that's calledsocial, which is creating new
and interesting things for thefellows to do in an academy, and
we're doing a whole variety ofthings.
We have an education committee,we have a mission and vision
committee, we've got a policyand procedures group, we've got
(07:02):
a group that's going to be doingour elevator pitches.
So it's going to be reallyexciting.
We'll see what the next sixmonths happen, what happens from
now.
It's always very exciting inIMSH and then you go home and
then you're really busy andtrying to catch up, and now
we're trying to get our momentumback.
Jerrod Jeffries (07:19):
So it'll be more frequent check-ins
throughout the year instead ofjust.
Dawn Shocken (07:23):
Right.
So I'd like to have quarterlymeetings with the whole group
and then monthly meetings withsome of the subcommittees that
need to have deliverables rightaway.
The group that's rewriting ourapplication process I have to
meet with every month becauseour application goes live in
April and we have to have it upand running by then.
Jerrod Jeffries (07:43):
Great, Also another question I have.
You mentioned that you did so.
That was for the fellows, butthis this is.
You also mentioned that you did20 accreditation visits the
first year.
Dawn Shocken (07:54):
No, that was during COVID.
No, I've probably done over 100site reviews Okay wow.
Since I've been doing this yeah.
So you've seen you've seen alot of sites.
I've seen some sites twice.
I've been with a lot ofdifferent individuals doing site
reviews.
It's really been joyful.
It's really a lot of fun to goto a program and see what their
(08:16):
program looks like and have thembe so proud of everything that
they're doing.
It's really exciting, I think,joyful is the perfect word for
it.
Deb Tauber (08:24):
It is just such an honor to have that opportunity
and to see how excited they areto share what they're doing, and
you've been a mentor for somany of us reviewers and it's
just been a pleasure to doreviews with you.
Thank you, thank you.
Now do you have a favoritestory that you can share with
(08:45):
our listeners from a site visit,or a couple of them?
Dawn Shocken (08:48):
Oh, my goodness, I have so many stories.
I could write a book about thedifferent activities we've done.
I remember being on a sitereview with Kathy at Yale and
going through the program andseeing their church where the
kids go and saying to theemergency department, do you
(09:09):
guys ever go there?
And they're looking at me likeI had six heads.
But we went over there to walkover to see that program,
because it just is.
It's so fun to be on thedifferent campuses, to be at the
different hospitals.
I was in the site review in justin Texas at one of our military
(09:30):
programs and I took an Uberfrom the airport to the base and
the Uber driver dropped me offa block away because he was
afraid someone at the base wasgoing to find out that he may or
may not.
I don't know what he wasthinking, but he's like you're
on your own.
And I was with Amy Smith and wewalked up to the base and they
(09:51):
were like yes, and we were like,well, we're here for the site
review, like you know, likeyou're going to take an airplane
or something.
And they're like you can't comein here.
And we're like, well, we'resupposed to be doing a site
review at eight in the morningand they're like you need to
register and then we will clearyou and then someone will
(10:14):
transfer you.
And we're like, well, how do weget over there, sir?
And they were like, well,you're just going to have to
walk.
And that was an interestingexperience.
I was in another site review inBaltimore.
We were doing a college ofnursing in Baltimore at the
university, and it was myselfand Jane Smitten and Kate
(10:35):
Nicholson.
These are amazing women.
And Kate calls us and says I'msnowed in, I can't leave Vermont
.
And this was way before we weredoing virtual reviews.
And over the course of the day,from when Jane and I got in, it
snowed so much in Baltimorethat we were snowed in.
We were snowed in for four days.
(10:58):
There was no food left in thehotel.
We had to walk to the programin our shoes.
That was.
The snow was up to our knees.
Jane and I are Jane lives inHawaii and I live in Florida we
were very ill prepared for thisvery snowy site review.
And we get to the buildingwhich was probably only three
(11:19):
blocks away, but it felt like itwas 17 miles away by the time.
We marched our way through thesnow and we were greeted by the
SimOps person who was the onlyperson who could get to the
building.
It was completely insane, butthey gave us a wonderful tour.
He was very sweet.
We did most of the site reviewon phone because no one had any
(11:39):
internet, nobody had anyconnectivity.
We couldn't even read ourdocuments that we had.
It was just completely nuts.
That was one of the mostinteresting ones, I think I did.
Deb Tauber (11:49):
Those are so memorable yeah.
Dawn Shocken (11:51):
And the other one that I had.
That's really really cool is Idid a site review in Johns
Hopkins at the School of Nursingand we went down to their
research lab where they weretrying to get research as part
of their accreditation.
They had an arm that was doingcentral line placement.
It was a robotic arm doingcentral line placements on
(12:13):
various different mannequins andit had 100% accuracy and I was
so wowed by that, and so they'retrying to get a patent for that
arm because that could thenpotentially be a game changer
for patient safety, because arobot's always going to do the
same thing and it's not going tomake mistakes.
It's always going to be sterile, it's always going to.
(12:34):
You know, there's no, noproblems for trying to remember
the steps or anything.
And it was just so cool and Iwas trying to imagine myself as
a patient laying on a table witha robotic arm trying to put a
central line in my chest.
I mean, I was just like tryingto envision what that would look
like.
So that was pretty interestingtoo.
I could go on for four hours.
Deb Tauber (13:02):
Yes, I'm sure you could Well, and I think some of
the policies and procedures thatwe've had to create have been
based on some of your outliersduring the accreditation site
visits that you've.
You know witnessed.
Dawn Shocken (13:10):
Yeah, I had the most interesting policy and
procedure that we created abouttaking funds, because I was in
China for a site review, inwhich the minister of health
came in with a bag of money andhanded it to myself and the two
other reviewers and the onereviewer just slid it over to me
and he says you're the siteleader, you take care of this.
(13:33):
It was like 15 or $20,000 in$100 bills.
I somehow have somethingwritten on my face just put
throw money at her, she'll.
She'll deal with it.
Probably and we were.
We were really in a picklebecause China's China, so what
do you do with that?
So I called Kristen, notremembering that we were 12
(13:54):
hours difference.
She's in the emergency roomwith her tiny baby girl who had
fallen off of a chair and hither head and had to get stitches
.
And I'm like Kristen, I'm justnot sure what to do.
I have all this cash sitting infront of me.
She says, well, you can't takecash.
I said, yes, I know, I signed adocument when I came in that I
would not be leaving with morethan like $100 in my pocket.
(14:20):
And now we have this.
And she said, well, can youjust walk away from it.
I said I don't know, I'll try,and that's what we did.
We walked away from it.
We just left all that money onthe table.
I'm pretty sure the Minister ofHealth was quite confused,
because that was probablysomething they did.
I don't know but that we.
Then I called Deb and I said wehave to create a policy about,
when you travel overseas, whatthis looks like.
So we spent a while creatingpolicies on that.
Deb Tauber (14:42):
I think it got to do with with just gifting and
overall that you know we can'tas reviewers, we can't just
accept gifts.
Dawn Shocken (14:52):
Yeah, that was a hard one.
$15, dollars would have been amajor gift, you know yep yeah I
mean, I don't know what to say.
Jerrod Jeffries (15:01):
I mean these, these stories?
Like deb, we get some good,good ones, but I don't.
I think these are.
You just keep raising them upand up oh, believe me, don's got
some stories.
Deb Tauber (15:15):
Yeah, with all that you're doing, what can we do to
help in your mission, yourmission of, you know, liking to
change the face of medicaleducation?
Dawn Shocken (15:25):
I think we're doing a really good job making
sure the accreditations that wedo mirror the standards, like
that people are actually meetingstandards, that we're not just
signing things off and saying,yeah, you're doing this, yeah,
you're doing that.
It's just like with some of theeducation we do.
We've created a really goodfoundation for people in
(15:46):
simulation to be able to provideeducation and assessment and
safety to our patients in areally standardized fashion,
which I really appreciate.
The simulation is not one sizefits all, but having the
perspective that what is themost important to us, which is
(16:07):
the safety of our patients,stays as our front and center
and our guiding force, and theneverything beyond that helps
guide that and that's themission and vision that I
operate on.
That's the passion I bring tothe table with my students at
USF or with anyone that I'mteaching at all.
I try to have that You're notthere to cause mayhem.
(16:30):
You're there to create a senseof safety.
Their lives are in your hands.
This is the worst day of theirlife, because anybody in a
healthcare setting when they'retrying to seek care, that's not
a great scene.
So remembering that, comingfrom that kind of point of view,
that's the perspective andwe're doing a good job.
(16:50):
We're helping people do that.
We're teaching it across theglobe for people to really pay
attention, be aware, be kind.
Deb Tauber (17:01):
Yeah, because absolutely you know you speak to
those moments that matter topatients, when they're you know
they're having the worst time oftheir life and we have to
consider that and treat themwith compassion and with empathy
, with respect that they deserve, especially in those times.
Aren't you have any questionsfor Jared?
Dawn Shocken (17:22):
and I Well, I'm not quite sure what Jerrod does.
Jerrod Jeffries (17:28):
Oh, you said you were in Nashville.
Dawn Shocken (17:30):
That was all you said.
Jerrod Jeffries (17:31):
Well, I of course, help Deb doing the
podcast of Sim Cafe as a co-host, but in addition I have a
company called Beaker Healthwhere we are an education
marketplace.
So we white label with healthcare simulation organizations
and we help them improve thecontent by allowing disseminate
through all members.
Improve the content by allowingit to disseminate through all
(17:54):
members and so you're able toshare best practices and raise
the benchmark within healthcaresimulation.
So we work with SimGhost Aspie,we've worked with INASCL
Simulation, Canada.
So different groups in order tohelp grow membership, push up
best practices and also savetime from the organizational
side.
So we're removing the timeburden while raising best
practices and also save timefrom the organizational side.
So no one.
So we're removing the timeburden and while raising best
(18:16):
practices and visibility.
Dawn Shocken (18:18):
That's cool.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Deb Tauber (18:21):
Thank you, Dawn.
Do you have any final closingthoughts for our listeners, for
our listeners that you want themto take away from today,
besides the funny stories?
Dawn Shocken (18:32):
Well, we just are launching the standards for
human simulation, which I thinkare really exciting.
Looking at standardizedpatients and how we can support
their roles within oursimulation community is so
important.
ASPIE has some very finestandards of best practice that
we've built our standards upon,and individuals will be able to
(18:57):
apply for human simulation andcore without having to do all
the other incidental areas ofaccreditation that we offer in
accreditation.
But I think it's important torecognize that as a community
we're all working together.
So having thoughts that peopleare putting out standards of
(19:19):
best practice and thensupporting them and then be
blind to the group that they'recoming from, that everybody's
working on the same thing forthe safety of our patients, is
where I would leave this.
Deb Tauber (19:32):
Thank you.
Yeah, you've done so much withthat and it's so exciting to see
the three programs that wererecognized for achieving this
and all the other programs thatare interested in becoming
accredited.
And what makes this differentfor you?
What are some of the thingsthat you didn't see coming
(19:53):
during this time?
Dawn Shocken (19:55):
I think the thing that makes it different for what
we're calling human simulationslash standardized patient is.
For a long time it wasconsidered SPs, were considered
a modality, and we used thatword SPs to dehumanize the fact
that they were people who wereproviding a service with us.
(20:16):
And so by creating standardsthat recognize that they're part
of the education, that they'repart and parcel of how we do
both teaching and feedback andassessments and feedback as part
of our community is reallyimportant, and that's been
revisioned by the standards ofbest practice that ASPIE put out
(20:39):
several years ago, but alsobecause they're also coming up
with their own accreditationprocess of whatever that looks
like.
I haven't looked at it in greatdetail, but the recognition
that as we grow as a simulationcommunity, we embrace the fact
that those who are working asstandardized patients.
(21:02):
They may not be our formaleducators, but they are part of
our community and they'rerepresenting the patient
perspective at all times.
So I think I'm very excitedabout that.
Deb Tauber (21:13):
Thank you.
Thank you for all you're doingJerrod , do you have anything
you want to follow up with?
Jerrod Jeffries (21:17):
No, I appreciate the time and all
you've done for the healthcaresimulation industry.
You're a woman of many storiesand hopefully we get the chance
to hear a few more of themoffline.
Dawn Shocken (21:26):
Absolutely.
A glass of white wine and aquiet place, perfect, perfect.
Deb Tauber (21:31):
Thank you very much, and a quiet place, perfect,
thank you very much and happysimulating, thank you.
Disclaier/ SimVS ad/ Intro (21:37):
You too.
Thanks again Sim VS forsponsoring this week's podcast.
SimV hInnovativeei SimSolutions is your one-stop shop
(22:21):
for your simulation needs Aturnkey solution.
The views and opinions expressed in
this program are those of thespeakers and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions orpositions of anyone at
Innovative Sim Solutions or oursponsors.
This week's podcast issponsored Sim VS .
With their new IV pumpsimulators in the first of its
kind in this critical learningarea.
with great realism and advancedlike simulation med orders,
(00:50):
gamified med orders and more!Sim VS significantly reduces
the burden of properly I t TheSim Cafe, a podcast produced by
the team at Innovative SimSolutions, edited by Shelly
Houser.
V VS significantly reduces thburde o properl undefined I V
t o learn in a safe environmentt Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a
podcast produced by the team atInnovative Sim Solutions, edited
by Shelly House r.
Join our host, Deb Tauber andco-host Jerrod Jeffries as they
(01:15):
sit down with subject matterexperts from across the globe to
reimagine clinical educationand the use of simulation.
So pour yourself a cup ofrelaxation, sit back, tune in
and learn something new from TheSim Cafe.
Deb Tauber (01:30):
Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe.
Welcome Jerrod and welcome DawnShocken.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We've got a lot to unpack, solet's get started.
Dawn, why don't you tell usabout yourself and your role in
simulation and how you got intosimulation?
Dawn Shocken (01:48):
Sure, my name is Dawn Schocken.
I work at the University ofSouth Florida in Tampa and I
currently am the Director ofExperiential Learning and
Simulation at USF for MorsaniCollege of Medicine.
When I was in the College ofPublic Health getting my
master's degree, one of myprofessors, who was my advisor,
(02:09):
sat me down and said what isyour goal?
And this was in mid-1980s and Isaid I'd like to change the
face of medical education.
And that is honestly what Isaid to her.
I was like 21.
And she was like looking at me,like okay, sure.
And I said no, seriously,because I had been working as a
(02:31):
diabetes educator and doing someother side jobs.
And I thought, no, that wereally need to change the way
people are taught.
They need to be better atcommunicating, they need to be
better at interacting with theirpatients.
And so I got into this worldfrom the back door saying I
wanted to change medicaleducation and, in my role, where
(02:53):
I am right now, I'm makingchanges.
We are creating much betterdoctors, providing a much safer
environment for our patientsthrough medical simulation.
Deb Tauber (03:06):
Thank you, Dawn, and you definitely are making a
change.
You are absolutely being achange in the face of medicine
and the things that you've donefor the Society for Simulation
and Healthcare are just beyondoverwhelming the stuff that
you've done, and I thank you somuch for that.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners a little bit about
(03:28):
what you do in your volunteerrole for the Society for
Simulation and Healthcare?
Dawn Shocken (03:34):
Well, I've just rotated off the board of
directors, where I served forthree years on the board of
directors for the society.
I have been a member,accreditation committee and then
consul since 2010.
I was originally working inrisk, in a subcommittee of risk,
and then I worked my way intoreviewer education and then I
(03:57):
worked my way into creatingbetter standards and standard
review, better standards andstandard review.
I eventually worked my way upto the chair of the
accreditation council and Iserved in that role during COVID
, which was an interesting timeperiod because we had to pivot
from doing in-person sitereviews to doing site reviews
(04:19):
that were virtual, which was awhole new animal for us.
What do we ask?
How do we know for sure it'sreally happening, what is going
on?
So it was a really interestingexperience.
I did about 20 site reviews inthe first year, which was
completely insane.
That's a lot of people to haveto review.
And then we moved into backfrom COVID.
(04:42):
I was on the board and I wasthe liaison for the
accreditation council.
I also served in a leadershiprole to create our CHSE the
Certified Healthcare SimulationEducator Review Course,
blueprint Review Course thatwe're calling it now, and I've
been doing that probably for 12years, which is crazy.
(05:04):
And then just recently I waselected as the chair of the
academy, the Society forSimulation and Healthcare Fellow
Academy.
So we're making changes thereand I've been very active in SSH
.
It's a fun place for me to play.
Deb Tauber (05:24):
Dawn, you want to talk a little bit about some of
the things you're going to dowith the fellows, sure?
Dawn Shocken (05:30):
I'm going to shake them up.
Deb Tauber (05:33):
So I know what to expect.
Dawn Shocken (05:35):
Yeah, so we've had this academy started in 2017.
And it was originally likerecognition of people who had
done a lot of work for thesociety work for the society,
but with the hope that theywould continue to do more work
for the society and provideleadership and mentorship to
individuals coming into thesociety.
(05:55):
That was originally what wasgoing on when I got elected in.
It wasn't really very active.
I was put on their board ofgovernance and we spent two
years sort of just havingmeetings and not really doing
much.
And then I'm not quite sure howI got elected to the chair.
I don't know if actually I wasasked or I was voluntold, but
(06:19):
suddenly I was elected.
And then I worked for a yearnow at Jill Sanko and I just
felt like we needed to do more.
So I've created a series ofdifferent subcommittees.
So there's an ambassadorcommittee that's going to do
mentorship, but there's alsogoing to be a historical
committee that's doing the.
(06:40):
You know what's going on in thesociety?
How can we create a legacy?
There's a section that's calledsocial, which is creating new
and interesting things for thefellows to do in an academy, and
we're doing a whole variety ofthings.
We have an education committee,we have a mission and vision
committee, we've got a policyand procedures group, we've got
(07:02):
a group that's going to be doingour elevator pitches.
So it's going to be reallyexciting.
We'll see what the next sixmonths happen, what happens from
now.
It's always very exciting inIMSH and then you go home and
then you're really busy andtrying to catch up, and now
we're trying to get our momentumback.
Jerrod Jeffries (07:19):
So it'll be more frequent check-ins
throughout the year instead ofjust.
Dawn Shocken (07:23):
Right.
So I'd like to have quarterlymeetings with the whole group
and then monthly meetings withsome of the subcommittees that
need to have deliverables rightaway.
The group that's rewriting ourapplication process I have to
meet with every month becauseour application goes live in
April and we have to have it upand running by then.
Jerrod Jeffries (07:43):
Great, Also another question I have.
You mentioned that you did so.
That was for the fellows, butthis this is.
You also mentioned that you did20 accreditation visits the
first year.
Dawn Shocken (07:54):
No, that was during COVID.
No, I've probably done over 100site reviews Okay wow.
Since I've been doing this yeah.
So you've seen you've seen alot of sites.
I've seen some sites twice.
I've been with a lot ofdifferent individuals doing site
reviews.
It's really been joyful.
It's really a lot of fun to goto a program and see what their
(08:16):
program looks like and have thembe so proud of everything that
they're doing.
It's really exciting, I think,joyful is the perfect word for
it.
Deb Tauber (08:24):
It is just such an honor to have that opportunity
and to see how excited they areto share what they're doing, and
you've been a mentor for somany of us reviewers and it's
just been a pleasure to doreviews with you.
Thank you, thank you.
Now do you have a favoritestory that you can share with
(08:45):
our listeners from a site visit,or a couple of them?
Dawn Shocken (08:48):
Oh, my goodness, I have so many stories.
I could write a book about thedifferent activities we've done.
I remember being on a sitereview with Kathy at Yale and
going through the program andseeing their church where the
kids go and saying to theemergency department, do you
(09:09):
guys ever go there?
And they're looking at me likeI had six heads.
But we went over there to walkover to see that program,
because it just is.
It's so fun to be on thedifferent campuses, to be at the
different hospitals.
I was in the site review in justin Texas at one of our military
(09:30):
programs and I took an Uberfrom the airport to the base and
the Uber driver dropped me offa block away because he was
afraid someone at the base wasgoing to find out that he may or
may not.
I don't know what he wasthinking, but he's like you're
on your own.
And I was with Amy Smith and wewalked up to the base and they
(09:51):
were like yes, and we were like,well, we're here for the site
review, like you know, likeyou're going to take an airplane
or something.
And they're like you can't comein here.
And we're like, well, we'resupposed to be doing a site
review at eight in the morningand they're like you need to
register and then we will clearyou and then someone will
(10:14):
transfer you.
And we're like, well, how do weget over there, sir?
And they were like, well,you're just going to have to
walk.
And that was an interestingexperience.
I was in another site review inBaltimore.
We were doing a college ofnursing in Baltimore at the
university, and it was myselfand Jane Smitten and Kate
(10:35):
Nicholson.
These are amazing women.
And Kate calls us and says I'msnowed in, I can't leave Vermont
.
And this was way before we weredoing virtual reviews.
And over the course of the day,from when Jane and I got in, it
snowed so much in Baltimorethat we were snowed in.
We were snowed in for four days.
(10:58):
There was no food left in thehotel.
We had to walk to the programin our shoes.
That was.
The snow was up to our knees.
Jane and I are Jane lives inHawaii and I live in Florida we
were very ill prepared for thisvery snowy site review.
And we get to the buildingwhich was probably only three
(11:19):
blocks away, but it felt like itwas 17 miles away by the time.
We marched our way through thesnow and we were greeted by the
SimOps person who was the onlyperson who could get to the
building.
It was completely insane, butthey gave us a wonderful tour.
He was very sweet.
We did most of the site reviewon phone because no one had any
(11:39):
internet, nobody had anyconnectivity.
We couldn't even read ourdocuments that we had.
It was just completely nuts.
That was one of the mostinteresting ones, I think I did.
Deb Tauber (11:49):
Those are so memorable yeah.
Dawn Shocken (11:51):
And the other one that I had.
That's really really cool is Idid a site review in Johns
Hopkins at the School of Nursingand we went down to their
research lab where they weretrying to get research as part
of their accreditation.
They had an arm that was doingcentral line placement.
It was a robotic arm doingcentral line placements on
(12:13):
various different mannequins andit had 100% accuracy and I was
so wowed by that, and so they'retrying to get a patent for that
arm because that could thenpotentially be a game changer
for patient safety, because arobot's always going to do the
same thing and it's not going tomake mistakes.
It's always going to be sterile, it's always going to.
(12:34):
You know, there's no, noproblems for trying to remember
the steps or anything.
And it was just so cool and Iwas trying to imagine myself as
a patient laying on a table witha robotic arm trying to put a
central line in my chest.
I mean, I was just like tryingto envision what that would look
like.
So that was pretty interestingtoo.
I could go on for four hours.
Deb Tauber (13:02):
Yes, I'm sure you could Well, and I think some of
the policies and procedures thatwe've had to create have been
based on some of your outliersduring the accreditation site
visits that you've.
You know witnessed.
Dawn Shocken (13:10):
Yeah, I had the most interesting policy and
procedure that we created abouttaking funds, because I was in
China for a site review, inwhich the minister of health
came in with a bag of money andhanded it to myself and the two
other reviewers and the onereviewer just slid it over to me
and he says you're the siteleader, you take care of this.
(13:33):
It was like 15 or $20,000 in$100 bills.
I somehow have somethingwritten on my face just put
throw money at her, she'll.
She'll deal with it.
Probably and we were.
We were really in a picklebecause China's China, so what
do you do with that?
So I called Kristen, notremembering that we were 12
(13:54):
hours difference.
She's in the emergency roomwith her tiny baby girl who had
fallen off of a chair and hither head and had to get stitches
.
And I'm like Kristen, I'm justnot sure what to do.
I have all this cash sitting infront of me.
She says, well, you can't takecash.
I said, yes, I know, I signed adocument when I came in that I
would not be leaving with morethan like $100 in my pocket.
(14:20):
And now we have this.
And she said, well, can youjust walk away from it.
I said I don't know, I'll try,and that's what we did.
We walked away from it.
We just left all that money onthe table.
I'm pretty sure the Minister ofHealth was quite confused,
because that was probablysomething they did.
I don't know but that we.
Then I called Deb and I said wehave to create a policy about,
when you travel overseas, whatthis looks like.
So we spent a while creatingpolicies on that.
Deb Tauber (14:42):
I think it got to do with with just gifting and
overall that you know we can'tas reviewers, we can't just
accept gifts.
Dawn Shocken (14:52):
Yeah, that was a hard one.
$15, dollars would have been amajor gift, you know yep yeah I
mean, I don't know what to say.
Jerrod Jeffries (15:01):
I mean these, these stories?
Like deb, we get some good,good ones, but I don't.
I think these are.
You just keep raising them upand up oh, believe me, don's got
some stories.
Deb Tauber (15:15):
Yeah, with all that you're doing, what can we do to
help in your mission, yourmission of, you know, liking to
change the face of medicaleducation?
Dawn Shocken (15:25):
I think we're doing a really good job making
sure the accreditations that wedo mirror the standards, like
that people are actually meetingstandards, that we're not just
signing things off and saying,yeah, you're doing this, yeah,
you're doing that.
It's just like with some of theeducation we do.
We've created a really goodfoundation for people in
(15:46):
simulation to be able to provideeducation and assessment and
safety to our patients in areally standardized fashion,
which I really appreciate.
The simulation is not one sizefits all, but having the
perspective that what is themost important to us, which is
(16:07):
the safety of our patients,stays as our front and center
and our guiding force, and theneverything beyond that helps
guide that and that's themission and vision that I
operate on.
That's the passion I bring tothe table with my students at
USF or with anyone that I'mteaching at all.
I try to have that You're notthere to cause mayhem.
(16:30):
You're there to create a senseof safety.
Their lives are in your hands.
This is the worst day of theirlife, because anybody in a
healthcare setting when they'retrying to seek care, that's not
a great scene.
So remembering that, comingfrom that kind of point of view,
that's the perspective andwe're doing a good job.
(16:50):
We're helping people do that.
We're teaching it across theglobe for people to really pay
attention, be aware, be kind.
Deb Tauber (17:01):
Yeah, because absolutely you know you speak to
those moments that matter topatients, when they're you know
they're having the worst time oftheir life and we have to
consider that and treat themwith compassion and with empathy
, with respect that they deserve, especially in those times.
Aren't you have any questionsfor Jared?
Dawn Shocken (17:22):
and I Well, I'm not quite sure what Jerrod does.
Jerrod Jeffries (17:28):
Oh, you said you were in Nashville.
Dawn Shocken (17:30):
That was all you said.
Jerrod Jeffries (17:31):
Well, I of course, help Deb doing the
podcast of Sim Cafe as a co-host, but in addition I have a
company called Beaker Healthwhere we are an education
marketplace.
So we white label with healthcare simulation organizations
and we help them improve thecontent by allowing disseminate
through all members.
Improve the content by allowingit to disseminate through all
(17:54):
members and so you're able toshare best practices and raise
the benchmark within healthcaresimulation.
So we work with SimGhost Aspie,we've worked with INASCL
Simulation, Canada.
So different groups in order tohelp grow membership, push up
best practices and also savetime from the organizational
side.
So we're removing the timeburden while raising best
practices and also save timefrom the organizational side.
So no one.
So we're removing the timeburden and while raising best
(18:16):
practices and visibility.
Dawn Shocken (18:18):
That's cool.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Deb Tauber (18:21):
Thank you, Dawn.
Do you have any final closingthoughts for our listeners, for
our listeners that you want themto take away from today,
besides the funny stories?
Dawn Shocken (18:32):
Well, we just are launching the standards for
human simulation, which I thinkare really exciting.
Looking at standardizedpatients and how we can support
their roles within oursimulation community is so
important.
ASPIE has some very finestandards of best practice that
we've built our standards upon,and individuals will be able to
(18:57):
apply for human simulation andcore without having to do all
the other incidental areas ofaccreditation that we offer in
accreditation.
But I think it's important torecognize that as a community
we're all working together.
So having thoughts that peopleare putting out standards of
(19:19):
best practice and thensupporting them and then be
blind to the group that they'recoming from, that everybody's
working on the same thing forthe safety of our patients, is
where I would leave this.
Deb Tauber (19:32):
Thank you.
Yeah, you've done so much withthat and it's so exciting to see
the three programs that wererecognized for achieving this
and all the other programs thatare interested in becoming
accredited.
And what makes this differentfor you?
What are some of the thingsthat you didn't see coming
(19:53):
during this time?
Dawn Shocken (19:55):
I think the thing that makes it different for what
we're calling human simulationslash standardized patient is.
For a long time it wasconsidered SPs, were considered
a modality, and we used thatword SPs to dehumanize the fact
that they were people who wereproviding a service with us.
(20:16):
And so by creating standardsthat recognize that they're part
of the education, that they'repart and parcel of how we do
both teaching and feedback andassessments and feedback as part
of our community is reallyimportant, and that's been
revisioned by the standards ofbest practice that ASPIE put out
(20:39):
several years ago, but alsobecause they're also coming up
with their own accreditationprocess of whatever that looks
like.
I haven't looked at it in greatdetail, but the recognition
that as we grow as a simulationcommunity, we embrace the fact
that those who are working asstandardized patients.
(21:02):
They may not be our formaleducators, but they are part of
our community and they'rerepresenting the patient
perspective at all times.
So I think I'm very excitedabout that.
Deb Tauber (21:13):
Thank you.
Thank you for all you're doingJerrod , do you have anything
you want to follow up with?
Jerrod Jeffries (21:17):
No, I appreciate the time and all
you've done for the healthcaresimulation industry.
You're a woman of many storiesand hopefully we get the chance
to hear a few more of themoffline.
Dawn Shocken (21:26):
Absolutely.
A glass of white wine and aquiet place, perfect, perfect.
Deb Tauber (21:31):
Thank you very much, and a quiet place, perfect,
thank you very much and happysimulating, thank you.
Disclaier/ SimVS ad/ Intro (21:37):
You too.
Thanks again Sim VS forsponsoring this week's podcast.
SimV hInnovativeei SimSolutions is your one-stop shop
(22:21):
for your simulation needs Aturnkey solution.
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