March 3, 2025 • 28 mins
Step into the vibrant world of clinical education through simulation with this immersive episode of our podcast! As we engage with Erin, a passionate nurse educator from New Zealand, we delve into the powerful impact that simulation training has on healthcare professionals and patient outcomes. Discover how organizations like the International Pediatric Simulation Society (IPSS) are pivotal in uniting practitioners from around the globe to share invaluable resources and insights. <br><br>Erin shares her journey into simulation and highlights her groundbreaking course, "Sim to Lead," which prepares healthcare workers to lead critical emergencies effectively. Through rich storytelling, we examine how these simulations not only hone technical skills but also emphasize essential leadership qualities in high-pressure situations. <br><br>Join in as we unpack the challenges and opportunities facing the simulation community, encouraging healthcare professionals to find their tribe and engage with others. This conversation is an invitation to rethink the ways we approach clinical education and to embrace the collaborative spirit that makes this field so dynamic.<br><br>Are you ready to transform your perspective on healthcare education? Don’t miss out on this engaging discussion, and be sure to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
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Episode Transcript
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Disclaimer/ Innovation Sim (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in
this program are those of thespeakers and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions orpositions of anyone at
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simulation needs.
Welcome to The Sim Cafe, apodcast produced by the team at
Innovative Sim Solutions, editedby Shelly Houser.
Join our host, Deb Tauber, andco-host Jerrod Jeffries as they
sit down with subject matterexperts from across the globe to
reimagine clinical educationand the use of simulation.
(01:08):
So pour yourself a cup ofrelaxation, sit back, tune in
and learn something new from TheSim Cafe.
Deb Tauber (01:25):
Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe.
Welcome, Jerrod, thanks forbeing on, and welcome Erin,
Bennett from New Zealand.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners a little bit about
yourself?
Erin Carn-Bennett (01:40):
Thanks, Deb, and thank you so much for
inviting me to come on to TheSim Cafe.
I feel really honored to bewith you both today and with
your listeners.
So my name's Erin, as Deb'salluded to, so I'm in Auckland,
new Zealand, and I am a nurseeducator with the Douglas
Starship Simulation Program,which is in Starship.
(02:02):
Child Health is the onlypediatric only hospital in the
country and we work on a grantthat we receive from the Douglas
Charitable Trust and we sort ofservice the entire hospital
that we work in.
But we also go out and do a lotof outreach throughout the
country as well to help peopleset up simulation programs and
(02:25):
pediatrics across New Zealand,and my background is in
pediatric emergency nursing.
So I was a new graduate therein 2007 and I worked my way up
and became a charge nurse inthat area and then I went and
worked in Rotorua Taupo, whichis sort of in the central North
Island of New Zealand, of theNorth Island of New Zealand, for
(02:49):
a little while and I was anurse unit manager down there
for the inpatient ward andcommunity.
I've got my master's andclinical prescribing and, yeah,
I also work with healthysimulation.
com, so I'm a writer and contentcreator with them and I've been
(03:09):
doing that for a couple ofyears, which I absolutely love
as well.
Yeah, and then we have our ownpodcast too sim nurse nz and um.
I also help to set IPSS , thepodcast, and I'm pretty involved
IPSS , which is theInternational Pediatric
Simulation Society, and I'mserving a term on the board at
(03:30):
the moment with them.
So, yeah, that's pretty much mein a nutshell.
Jerrod Jeffries (03:34):
You cover all avenues there.
Really that's full scope.
Erin Carn-Bennett (03:41):
Wow.
Jerrod Jeffries (03:41):
I really don't know how you have all the time,
but I'm certainly impressed.
Wow, I really don't know howyou have all the time, but I'm
certainly impressed.
I want to also dig into alittle bit about IPSS if you
don't mind, starting absolutelyfrom your involvement and also
the board but can we talk alittle bit about the society and
what purpose, mission, you know, kind of regional coverage it
takes and so on for sure.
Erin Carn-Bennett (04:02):
So IPSS is quite a small society because
it's very specialized right inkind of neonatal and pediatric
simulation.
It's very internationally basedand the mission is pretty much
for everyone within this kind ofvery small segment of
simulation to be able to shareresources, and we have a lot of
(04:26):
drive to get resources into lowand middle income countries as
well.
So we are very passionate aboutthat and I really love going to
IPSSW, which is the annualconference.
It's just it's a really lovelycommunity family feel because
there's only you know, sort ofoften two to three hundred
(04:48):
people there and there's somereally big names there of
simulation that come and attendthat conference, and because
it's so small and intimate andyou get to actually go and have
conversations with these peopleand be in quite small rooms and
ask really curious questions andthings.
It's just such a fantasticsociety to be involved with.
(05:09):
Some of the team members thatstarted our program here in
Auckland, new Zealand, were veryinvolved in the setup of IPSS
and so, yeah, as a team we'vejust sort of stayed on and
become very involved in thesociety and we're very
passionate about it as well.
Deb Tauber (05:28):
Thank you so much for all you're doing with that
work and I appreciate hearing alittle bit about the history of
it.
Erin Carn-Bennett (05:36):
Thank you.
We're small, so it's notwithout challenges, you know,
but we are extremely passionateand determined, To your point.
it's so much more intimate onthe some, on some of the smaller
side.
You know, looking at themacross.
Unfortunately I haven'tanything done in new zealand yet
, but it's, you know, looking atthe us, even to Europe, the
size in t the Americas isusually so much larger and you
(05:56):
know there's benefits, butthere's also drawbacks to that
size and in the same same way,to those within europe.
it's maybe a little smaller andyou get this intimate and more,
build that relationship a lotmore, and I can only imagine
what it's like down there aswell.
Deb Tauber (06:08):
So yeah, yeah.
Now Erin, how did you actuallyget into simulation itself?
I see how you got into PEDS.
I've followed that one.
Erin Carn-Bennett (06:17):
So I really grew up with the simulation
program here.
So when I started my time as anew graduate nurse in the
Children's Emergency Departmentin Starship Hospital, the
simulation program was juststarting really, and the people
who founded it here Mike Shepard, Trish Wood they became quite
(06:42):
involved with Boston Children'sHospital and Peter Weinstock and
things, and so they sort ofbrought their CRM training
program through into thehospital and got a network
started and started doing thetraining here.
So I really grew up with theprogram and got to really
(07:02):
experience it.
And as my time went on as acharge nurse, I was struggling
more and more with thechallenges of being in hospital
management.
And I still to this day, kindof really remember the day that
I had my final charge nurseshift in the ED and we had a
(07:22):
team on and we had a child thatcame in in a shockable arrest
and there was a group of muchyounger nurses in the room.
I was the senior nurse andthese nurses were just so slick
and there was three shocksdelivered to the patient and you
know, rosc was gained and andit was just like everyone was
(07:43):
just this highly effective teamand that is just such a low
frequency event in pediatricsand I just I was a wreck
afterwards.
I was like shaking like a leafand these girls were all like
high-fiving each other and itwas just phenomenal and it was
just like wow, we've trained forthis in simulation and got a
really good outcome for thispatient and it was just really
(08:05):
mind blowing and I was reallyleft with the profoundness of it
and I've always really lovedteaching and educating and
mentoring and coaching peopleand, yeah, I ended up getting
pretty burnt out in hospitalmanagement, to be honest, and
the first thing that I thoughtwas you know, when I really
thought about what do I actuallywant to do?
It was like, oh my gosh, I wantto go and do simulation.
Thing that I thought was youknow, when I really thought
about what do I actually want todo, it was like, oh my gosh, I
(08:27):
want to go and do simulation.
And I was just extremelyfortunate that, within a couple
of weeks of me being like I needto leave this job and go back
to Auckland, that a post came upin that exact role and so I was
able to apply and wassuccessful and I just knew that
this job was not going to comeup again.
(08:48):
So it was just really a seriesof fortunate events that I'm
incredibly grateful for, to befair, and I started in
simulation in 2019.
So you know, I'm still fairlyearly in my simulation career
really, but, yeah, it's justbeen the best decision that I've
made, really, I think, in mycareer.
(09:09):
To be honest.
Deb Tauber (09:10):
Good, Now do you have a favorite or most
impactful simulation story?
Erin Carn-Bennett (09:17):
I do so and this story is kind of like
actually from fairly early in mydebriefing career.
I love debriefing, it's one ofmy most favorite things to do,
and I was.
I've probably been debriefingfor maybe a year, maybe two
years, so I was still prettypretty early on in my journey
and I was debriefing in an areathat I have never worked in and
(09:40):
I don't have any clinicalexpertise in whatsoever.
But I was debriefing a seniornurse around her leadership
skills in a resuscitation and Ireally formed this connection
with her and it was kind of likethis charge nurse to charge
nurse type situation and it wasjust so amazing to really feel
(10:05):
the connection of everyone inthe room come together and to
talk about how she had led thisteam.
And then we sort of did a bitof a flip around and we sort of
talked about when things haven'tgone so well with leadership
and it meant that some of themore junior nurses in the room
felt really safe to bevulnerable about some of these
(10:27):
things that have been happeningin their department around
leadership in multiple differentcircumstances and it was just
so powerful to be able to hearthis perspective brought forward
with a charge nurse present inthe room as well, and it was
just kind of like this real Idon't know I call it my nirvana
debriefing moment where it wasjust I don't know.
(10:49):
I've been chasing it ever since.
I mean, had some great debriefssince, but not quite to that
same standard, but yeah, it wasjust.
It was this incredibly profoundmoment for me and actually for
everyone in that room really,and it was through everyone
being able to share together.
So, yeah, I often still, evennow, reflect back on that
(11:12):
debrief.
Yeah, Right.
Deb Tauber (11:15):
I think that there's special cases that you.
They just trigger a memory.
In fact, when you were sharingthe story about the pediatric
code on the floor, I rememberedbeing in a situation very
similar the resuscitation withhim.
And we were able to resuscitatehim but it turned out that his
(11:42):
brother had pushed him in.
So I mean the thinking aboutthat whole story.
It was everybody who had taughtPALS.
We were the ones who were doingthe resuscitation, so it just
went smooth and, just like yousaid, the high five afterward
because you knew you did.
You did something that you'dlearned in simulation and made a
difference.
Erin Carn-Bennett (12:03):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the thing
right is we don't always win inresuscitation, but it's about we
have to overcome so much to beable to perform in these moments
.
You know, mentally, physically,all the things right.
And if we have those reallyingrained teamwork skills and
(12:24):
we've practiced and we'vepracticed, that's when I think
it really starts to cometogether in those really really
challenging circumstances.
Deb Tauber (12:33):
Right, right Now.
Let's talk a little bit aboutSim to Lead.
I know that you're active withthat.
I'd like to learn more.
We'd like to learn a little bitabout Sim to Lead.
I know that you're active withthat.
I'd like to learn more.
We'd like to learn a little bitmore about that, thank you.
Erin Carn-Bennett (12:44):
So Sim to Lead is a course that Dr
Kang-Hee Gan and I have createdover the last kind of three
years within our program andwe've been incredibly fortunate
(13:12):
through all of the exposure andtraining and constant training
that we've had and access toexperts that trust us to
actually not guinea pig, but youknow to roll these things out
and to refine them and topractice them and to learn as we
go as well.
So sim to lead is a course thatwe created essentially because
(13:33):
we wanted people to feelprepared to be leaders of
critical events orresuscitations, and we are
essentially training to have amedical event manager and a
nursing co-leader inresuscitations, for them to work
together and to have kind ofskills in leadership, teamwork
(13:56):
and also to overcome mentalchallenges and things as well.
So things like you know, whenyou become really overwhelmed
and you just can't thinkmentally, physically, how do you
overcome that to then be ableto run an effective
resuscitation?
And you know, I think acrossthe globe we are really facing
(14:18):
challenges of staff being pushedto have to lead these events
and things much sooner than theywould have in the past because
of the attrition of staff andthings.
So how do we prepare people tofeel like they are confident and
have the skills to be able todo that.
So that's essentially whatSim2Lead is, and it's a high
(14:41):
fidelity simulation course, butthere are coaches who are
training these leaders in sideby side coaching at the same
time, and we've now got it to apoint where we're really happy
with it.
We're actually about to submitour first paper about it, which
is really exciting.
It will be my first publicationcertainly not Kang's, but
(15:05):
definitely mine.
So, yeah, it's been just such aphenomenal experience and to
also work in a team who havealso just been incredibly
supportive and really enabledthis to happen too, and we're
just now at the point wherewe're starting to train more
facilitators as well, uh, so isit a class that you go to and
(15:29):
attend?
Deb Tauber (15:30):
so I understand it's for helping leaders to learn
how to lead.
Erin Carn-Bennett (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we do.
It's a four-hour course, sothey have like a one hour at the
start of kind of.
We have a segment in therewhich we refer to as the
campfire, which is just like areally connecting experience of
just conversations aroundpeople's experiences, what they
want to learn, where they're at,where they've been, can get
(15:56):
some really amazing stories andskills shared that people
actually are already using, thatyou don't know about, and then
we sort of teach them.
I guess the kind of foundationof it was.
I remember saying to Kang likeI feel like it's like a chess
board, like we need to show themwhere to put their counters on
(16:16):
the chessboard, Like what's thestrategy, what are the reliable
things that we can teach peopleevery time that they can lean on
in these really challengingsituations that they have to
lead in.
So that's kind of been thefoundation of the course.
They have the didactic for anhour at the start which we try
to really embody.
(16:37):
We're not the experts, we arehere to learn as well and we're
really trying to just keep thehierarchy really flat and really
sharing as well, and then fromthere we go into.
We're still trying to refine it, but we currently do four
simulation scenarios onetabletop, then three in-situ
(17:00):
scenarios with a pediatricmannequin where at the moment
we're still umming and ahhing asto whether we cut that down to
three or not.
So it's constantly beingrevised and refined.
You should say yeah.
Deb Tauber (17:13):
Very, very cool, so thanks for sharing that.
Jared, do you have anyquestions about?
Jerrod Jeffries (17:19):
yeah, I mean it sounds more like you're
creating the science or kind ofa process that's with it, but
then there's always art on topand you know, as, as the old
saying goes, you know you'veseen one simulation site, you've
seen one, and, but there aresimilarities and patterns you
can apply to others.
But it sounds like you'reiterating, based off, you know,
(17:41):
the feedback you're getting,which is great, and I love to
see that it's Symtolead isgrowing.
Erin Carn-Bennett (17:48):
And is that just in New Zealand, or is that
across, you know?
Jerrod Jeffries (17:51):
Australia or other places as well?
Erin Carn-Bennett (17:53):
Yeah, so, yeah, it's just within our
hospital at the moment.
But yeah, we have had interest.
There has been a pediatriccenter in the States that was
interested and they kind ofobserve the simulations and be
on teams and things and beinvolved in the conversations
(18:22):
and things, and also we includedthem in the debrief as well.
So that was quite aninteresting experience.
Yeah, yeah, so not too surewhere it'll head in the future,
but we're just kind of rollingwith it and we've got our
program within the ED, which is,you know, pretty solid at the
moment.
I think we're running three orfour courses there this year.
(18:43):
We also run it for the NICU aswell.
I think we did that a couple oftimes last year.
We did, I think, close to 10courses of it last year.
So, yeah, we're just rollingwith.
However it pans out.
Really, we're building theairplane while we fly it, I
guess you could say.
Deb Tauber (19:03):
Thank you.
Jerrod Jeffries (19:04):
I think the best ones always do.
You got to launch, you got togo, you got to launch.
Deb Tauber (19:09):
Absolutely so, Erin.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe podcast.
You have a podcast, obviously,Jerrod, and I have a podcast,
and why don't you tell us alittle bit about how you started
it and kind of what some ofyour favorite things have been
since you've been on thisjourney?
Erin Carn-Bennett (19:27):
Yeah, I mean, it's been such a huge learning
experience and there's been somany skills that I've learned
about.
One of my best friends fromhigh school works in radio.
She's quite a famous radio hostin New Zealand and so she kind
of helped to get me in touchwith some people to help with
(19:48):
some stuff to get going, becauseshe knew people who were kind
of podcast producers for some ofthe top teams in the country
here and things like that.
So we were really lucky to havesome really good mentorship
from the start to get going andthings and the learning
continues.
But, yeah, in terms of guests,it's been phenomenal.
(20:08):
Our kind of ethos with sim nurseNZ is uh, we, our morning
ritual as a team is that we allsit and we have coffee and
there's myself, alisonCartwright and Marie Collinson
who are the three nurseeducators for the Douglas
Starship Simulation Program andwe were just finding we were
having these morning coffeeconversations and solving the
(20:31):
world's problems and we werelike man, we should be recording
this stuff.
It's pretty cool.
And so, yeah, we, in theclassic new zealand way we were
then on a team fishing trip andwe kind of dropped in that, hey,
you know how we're buildingthis new sim center.
Maybe we could have like apodcast suite in there.
And we were kind of like jokingaround with our big bosses and
(20:53):
they were like you can have apodcast if you want.
So then that kind of justsnowballed from there.
But essentially the ethos isthat we wanted to capture these
coffee style conversations of itjust being really casual, which
is sort of the New Zealand wayto be fair, but just allowing
the magic to kind of happen, andnot too rigid, and so we just
(21:19):
kind of went with that.
We were really blown away by.
We'd reached out to a number ofpretty big heavy hitters in the
simulation community and we'repretty early in the game here
and everyone just kind of cameon board and was really really
giving.
We've had some amazing guestsand it's it's really interesting
(21:41):
.
I'm not sure if you find it aswell, but, um, you kind of
forget you're in recording apodcast and yeah, it just kind
of becomes this naturalconversation and it's really fun
, especially with the three ofus.
We're all a bit, we're allslightly crazy, so it gets a
little, a little wild at times.
But yeah, we'd like to make itfun, we like to make jokes and
(22:03):
we learn so much, and so much ofwhat we've learned on the
podcast actually then permeatesthrough into our simulation
program as well.
So it's very much professionaldevelopment for us actually to
honest, I couldn't agree, Icould not agree more.
Deb Tauber (22:20):
I can't tell you the amount of gifts that our guests
have given us with their timeand their talent and their
stories, and I just feel so, sofortunate.
To have had the opportunity andthen, you know, to get Jared to
join made it even more excitingand fun.
Erin Carn-Bennett (22:39):
Yeah, thank you, yeah.
And I think on top of that isthen you meet in person.
Jerrod Jeffries (22:43):
Of course, most podcasts are virtual these days
and you know you connect withthem at a large conference,
wherever it is in the world, oryou hear a story of two other
people connecting throughlistening to someone else's pod.
You know being a guest on.
That to me is just absolutelyincredible when you hear a story
of a listener and then a guestsay oh, I started doing this and
(23:03):
you were the catalyst, or youknow because it was disseminated
through podcasts.
you're able to then connect andthat just really really warms me
.
But a lot of benefits, that'sfor sure.
Deb Tauber (23:12):
Absolutely.
I think.
The other thing that I've foundmost recently is more and more
people are asking to beinterviewed because it takes so
long to get your information outthere if you're going to be
peer reviewed and published.
By the time you get published,it's old news, it's old
information.
It's been just a great way todisseminate information and I
(23:37):
think we've got close to 150episodes.
Erin Carn-Bennett (23:41):
Wow, it's so impressive.
Deb Tauber (23:45):
Well, I think the fun thing is if you go to my
website, innovativesimsolutions.
com, you can type a person'sname in the podcast area and
their podcast will pop up ifthey've done an interview.
Erin Carn-Bennett (23:57):
Yeah, it's great, isn't it?
It's all that stuff.
That is incredibly helpful.
And you know, we started theSimNurseNZ podcast and we were
actually in Lisbon in Portugalfor the IPSSW in, I must say,
2023.
And then we all of a suddenwere being approached.
(24:18):
We had some little businesscards we were giving out and
things, and then I think Ijoined yeah, that was that was
the conference that I, it wasannounced I was joining the
board and so then conversationswere happening.
I had people come over andthey're like oh, you have a
podcast, we want a podcast,let's do, let's make one.
And so it just kind of onepodcast is now led into two
(24:40):
podcasts and it's been cool tothen now mentor.
You're watching people gothrough that process of I'm sure
you both remember, when youfirst start releasing podcasts
and things, that kind of likeanxiety of putting things out
into the internet and out intothe universe, and so coaching
and mentoring another group ofpeople to go through that was
(25:04):
really fascinating as well, andthere's just so many ways to do
it as well.
And you speak to other peoplelike I spoke to Victoria Brazel
and David Shablack and you knowthey'll share with you how they
do things and then you're like,oh, wow, like there's just
there's so many ways that youcan produce a podcast and it's
(25:25):
really, really fascinating andthere's so many skills that you
can learn that go alongside itas well.
Deb Tauber (25:31):
Right, yeah, David and William have been a lot of
help to us.
Yeah, appreciated their supportand we are here to support you
as well.
I'm excited for you on thispodcast journey across the world
and the other side of the world.
Now, do you have any finalwords you'd like to leave our
(25:51):
listeners?
Erin Carn-Bennett (25:52):
with.
I think if you are insimulation and you aren't part
of an organization, I think it'sa really good thing to do.
And that's not necessarily IPCSor SSIH or anything really I
mean those are wonderfulorganizations for sure.
But I think joining asimulation organization and
(26:14):
finding your tribe and justreally getting involved, you
know, in a special interestgroup or a committee or
something, is so beneficial.
You meet so many wonderful,amazing human beings.
You get access to a lot ofincredible resources and things.
If you're going to a conference,just go and talk to people.
That's, I mean I still I know Ipodcast and whatnot.
(26:38):
That's still something I dostruggle with a bit is just be
brave and go over and talk topeople.
Or go and have lunch with youknow, move around different
tables and go to the welcomedrinks and just go and say hi.
And it's just really amazingwhen you start to ask questions
of people of where they're fromand what they've done.
And the simulation community isso wonderful.
(27:00):
And, yeah, I just I would lovefor you to come and listen to
our podcast as well if you wouldlike to.
And uh, yeah, obviously SimCafe as well wonderful podcast.
So that's probably my finalwords, really, I guess thank you
, Jerro jared.
Deb Tauber (27:18):
You have any questions or anything?
Jerrod Jeffries (27:20):
no, I I appreciate you being on Erin.
It's great to get a perspectivefrom the other side of the
world, but also to realize thechallenges and what we're going
through.
And the connections you canmake are, of course, global and
hopefully it makes the world alittle bit smaller, being able
to connect and share your voice.
So thank you.
Deb Tauber (27:38):
Yeah, thank you so much, yep, all right, well, with
that, happy simulating.
Disclaimer/ Innovation S (27:45):
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simulation needs.
Welcome to The Sim Cafe, apodcast produced by the team at
Innovative Sim Solutions, editedby Shelly Houser.
Join our host, Deb Tauber, andco-host Jerrod Jeffries as they
sit down with subject matterexperts from across the globe to
reimagine clinical educationand the use of simulation.
(01:08):
So pour yourself a cup ofrelaxation, sit back, tune in
and learn something new from TheSim Cafe.
Deb Tauber (01:25):
Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe.
Welcome, Jerrod, thanks forbeing on, and welcome Erin,
Bennett from New Zealand.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners a little bit about
yourself?
Erin Carn-Bennett (01:40):
Thanks, Deb, and thank you so much for
inviting me to come on to TheSim Cafe.
I feel really honored to bewith you both today and with
your listeners.
So my name's Erin, as Deb'salluded to, so I'm in Auckland,
new Zealand, and I am a nurseeducator with the Douglas
Starship Simulation Program,which is in Starship.
(02:02):
Child Health is the onlypediatric only hospital in the
country and we work on a grantthat we receive from the Douglas
Charitable Trust and we sort ofservice the entire hospital
that we work in.
But we also go out and do a lotof outreach throughout the
country as well to help peopleset up simulation programs and
(02:25):
pediatrics across New Zealand,and my background is in
pediatric emergency nursing.
So I was a new graduate therein 2007 and I worked my way up
and became a charge nurse inthat area and then I went and
worked in Rotorua Taupo, whichis sort of in the central North
Island of New Zealand, of theNorth Island of New Zealand, for
(02:49):
a little while and I was anurse unit manager down there
for the inpatient ward andcommunity.
I've got my master's andclinical prescribing and, yeah,
I also work with healthysimulation.
com, so I'm a writer and contentcreator with them and I've been
(03:09):
doing that for a couple ofyears, which I absolutely love
as well.
Yeah, and then we have our ownpodcast too sim nurse nz and um.
I also help to set IPSS , thepodcast, and I'm pretty involved
IPSS , which is theInternational Pediatric
Simulation Society, and I'mserving a term on the board at
(03:30):
the moment with them.
So, yeah, that's pretty much mein a nutshell.
Jerrod Jeffries (03:34):
You cover all avenues there.
Really that's full scope.
Erin Carn-Bennett (03:41):
Wow.
Jerrod Jeffries (03:41):
I really don't know how you have all the time,
but I'm certainly impressed.
Wow, I really don't know howyou have all the time, but I'm
certainly impressed.
I want to also dig into alittle bit about IPSS if you
don't mind, starting absolutelyfrom your involvement and also
the board but can we talk alittle bit about the society and
what purpose, mission, you know, kind of regional coverage it
takes and so on for sure.
Erin Carn-Bennett (04:02):
So IPSS is quite a small society because
it's very specialized right inkind of neonatal and pediatric
simulation.
It's very internationally basedand the mission is pretty much
for everyone within this kind ofvery small segment of
simulation to be able to shareresources, and we have a lot of
(04:26):
drive to get resources into lowand middle income countries as
well.
So we are very passionate aboutthat and I really love going to
IPSSW, which is the annualconference.
It's just it's a really lovelycommunity family feel because
there's only you know, sort ofoften two to three hundred
(04:48):
people there and there's somereally big names there of
simulation that come and attendthat conference, and because
it's so small and intimate andyou get to actually go and have
conversations with these peopleand be in quite small rooms and
ask really curious questions andthings.
It's just such a fantasticsociety to be involved with.
(05:09):
Some of the team members thatstarted our program here in
Auckland, new Zealand, were veryinvolved in the setup of IPSS
and so, yeah, as a team we'vejust sort of stayed on and
become very involved in thesociety and we're very
passionate about it as well.
Deb Tauber (05:28):
Thank you so much for all you're doing with that
work and I appreciate hearing alittle bit about the history of
it.
Erin Carn-Bennett (05:36):
Thank you.
We're small, so it's notwithout challenges, you know,
but we are extremely passionateand determined, To your point.
it's so much more intimate onthe some, on some of the smaller
side.
You know, looking at themacross.
Unfortunately I haven'tanything done in new zealand yet
, but it's, you know, looking atthe us, even to Europe, the
size in t the Americas isusually so much larger and you
(05:56):
know there's benefits, butthere's also drawbacks to that
size and in the same same way,to those within europe.
it's maybe a little smaller andyou get this intimate and more,
build that relationship a lotmore, and I can only imagine
what it's like down there aswell.
Deb Tauber (06:08):
So yeah, yeah.
Now Erin, how did you actuallyget into simulation itself?
I see how you got into PEDS.
I've followed that one.
Erin Carn-Bennett (06:17):
So I really grew up with the simulation
program here.
So when I started my time as anew graduate nurse in the
Children's Emergency Departmentin Starship Hospital, the
simulation program was juststarting really, and the people
who founded it here Mike Shepard, Trish Wood they became quite
(06:42):
involved with Boston Children'sHospital and Peter Weinstock and
things, and so they sort ofbrought their CRM training
program through into thehospital and got a network
started and started doing thetraining here.
So I really grew up with theprogram and got to really
(07:02):
experience it.
And as my time went on as acharge nurse, I was struggling
more and more with thechallenges of being in hospital
management.
And I still to this day, kindof really remember the day that
I had my final charge nurseshift in the ED and we had a
(07:22):
team on and we had a child thatcame in in a shockable arrest
and there was a group of muchyounger nurses in the room.
I was the senior nurse andthese nurses were just so slick
and there was three shocksdelivered to the patient and you
know, rosc was gained and andit was just like everyone was
(07:43):
just this highly effective teamand that is just such a low
frequency event in pediatricsand I just I was a wreck
afterwards.
I was like shaking like a leafand these girls were all like
high-fiving each other and itwas just phenomenal and it was
just like wow, we've trained forthis in simulation and got a
really good outcome for thispatient and it was just really
(08:05):
mind blowing and I was reallyleft with the profoundness of it
and I've always really lovedteaching and educating and
mentoring and coaching peopleand, yeah, I ended up getting
pretty burnt out in hospitalmanagement, to be honest, and
the first thing that I thoughtwas you know, when I really
thought about what do I actuallywant to do?
It was like, oh my gosh, I wantto go and do simulation.
Thing that I thought was youknow, when I really thought
about what do I actually want todo, it was like, oh my gosh, I
(08:27):
want to go and do simulation.
And I was just extremelyfortunate that, within a couple
of weeks of me being like I needto leave this job and go back
to Auckland, that a post came upin that exact role and so I was
able to apply and wassuccessful and I just knew that
this job was not going to comeup again.
(08:48):
So it was just really a seriesof fortunate events that I'm
incredibly grateful for, to befair, and I started in
simulation in 2019.
So you know, I'm still fairlyearly in my simulation career
really, but, yeah, it's justbeen the best decision that I've
made, really, I think, in mycareer.
(09:09):
To be honest.
Deb Tauber (09:10):
Good, Now do you have a favorite or most
impactful simulation story?
Erin Carn-Bennett (09:17):
I do so and this story is kind of like
actually from fairly early in mydebriefing career.
I love debriefing, it's one ofmy most favorite things to do,
and I was.
I've probably been debriefingfor maybe a year, maybe two
years, so I was still prettypretty early on in my journey
and I was debriefing in an areathat I have never worked in and
(09:40):
I don't have any clinicalexpertise in whatsoever.
But I was debriefing a seniornurse around her leadership
skills in a resuscitation and Ireally formed this connection
with her and it was kind of likethis charge nurse to charge
nurse type situation and it wasjust so amazing to really feel
(10:05):
the connection of everyone inthe room come together and to
talk about how she had led thisteam.
And then we sort of did a bitof a flip around and we sort of
talked about when things haven'tgone so well with leadership
and it meant that some of themore junior nurses in the room
felt really safe to bevulnerable about some of these
(10:27):
things that have been happeningin their department around
leadership in multiple differentcircumstances and it was just
so powerful to be able to hearthis perspective brought forward
with a charge nurse present inthe room as well, and it was
just kind of like this real Idon't know I call it my nirvana
debriefing moment where it wasjust I don't know.
(10:49):
I've been chasing it ever since.
I mean, had some great debriefssince, but not quite to that
same standard, but yeah, it wasjust.
It was this incredibly profoundmoment for me and actually for
everyone in that room really,and it was through everyone
being able to share together.
So, yeah, I often still, evennow, reflect back on that
(11:12):
debrief.
Yeah, Right.
Deb Tauber (11:15):
I think that there's special cases that you.
They just trigger a memory.
In fact, when you were sharingthe story about the pediatric
code on the floor, I rememberedbeing in a situation very
similar the resuscitation withhim.
And we were able to resuscitatehim but it turned out that his
(11:42):
brother had pushed him in.
So I mean the thinking aboutthat whole story.
It was everybody who had taughtPALS.
We were the ones who were doingthe resuscitation, so it just
went smooth and, just like yousaid, the high five afterward
because you knew you did.
You did something that you'dlearned in simulation and made a
difference.
Erin Carn-Bennett (12:03):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the thing
right is we don't always win inresuscitation, but it's about we
have to overcome so much to beable to perform in these moments
.
You know, mentally, physically,all the things right.
And if we have those reallyingrained teamwork skills and
(12:24):
we've practiced and we'vepracticed, that's when I think
it really starts to cometogether in those really really
challenging circumstances.
Deb Tauber (12:33):
Right, right Now.
Let's talk a little bit aboutSim to Lead.
I know that you're active withthat.
I'd like to learn more.
We'd like to learn a little bitabout Sim to Lead.
I know that you're active withthat.
I'd like to learn more.
We'd like to learn a little bitmore about that, thank you.
Erin Carn-Bennett (12:44):
So Sim to Lead is a course that Dr
Kang-Hee Gan and I have createdover the last kind of three
years within our program andwe've been incredibly fortunate
(13:12):
through all of the exposure andtraining and constant training
that we've had and access toexperts that trust us to
actually not guinea pig, but youknow to roll these things out
and to refine them and topractice them and to learn as we
go as well.
So sim to lead is a course thatwe created essentially because
(13:33):
we wanted people to feelprepared to be leaders of
critical events orresuscitations, and we are
essentially training to have amedical event manager and a
nursing co-leader inresuscitations, for them to work
together and to have kind ofskills in leadership, teamwork
(13:56):
and also to overcome mentalchallenges and things as well.
So things like you know, whenyou become really overwhelmed
and you just can't thinkmentally, physically, how do you
overcome that to then be ableto run an effective
resuscitation?
And you know, I think acrossthe globe we are really facing
(14:18):
challenges of staff being pushedto have to lead these events
and things much sooner than theywould have in the past because
of the attrition of staff andthings.
So how do we prepare people tofeel like they are confident and
have the skills to be able todo that.
So that's essentially whatSim2Lead is, and it's a high
(14:41):
fidelity simulation course, butthere are coaches who are
training these leaders in sideby side coaching at the same
time, and we've now got it to apoint where we're really happy
with it.
We're actually about to submitour first paper about it, which
is really exciting.
It will be my first publicationcertainly not Kang's, but
(15:05):
definitely mine.
So, yeah, it's been just such aphenomenal experience and to
also work in a team who havealso just been incredibly
supportive and really enabledthis to happen too, and we're
just now at the point wherewe're starting to train more
facilitators as well, uh, so isit a class that you go to and
(15:29):
attend?
Deb Tauber (15:30):
so I understand it's for helping leaders to learn
how to lead.
Erin Carn-Bennett (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we do.
It's a four-hour course, sothey have like a one hour at the
start of kind of.
We have a segment in therewhich we refer to as the
campfire, which is just like areally connecting experience of
just conversations aroundpeople's experiences, what they
want to learn, where they're at,where they've been, can get
(15:56):
some really amazing stories andskills shared that people
actually are already using, thatyou don't know about, and then
we sort of teach them.
I guess the kind of foundationof it was.
I remember saying to Kang likeI feel like it's like a chess
board, like we need to show themwhere to put their counters on
(16:16):
the chessboard, Like what's thestrategy, what are the reliable
things that we can teach peopleevery time that they can lean on
in these really challengingsituations that they have to
lead in.
So that's kind of been thefoundation of the course.
They have the didactic for anhour at the start which we try
to really embody.
(16:37):
We're not the experts, we arehere to learn as well and we're
really trying to just keep thehierarchy really flat and really
sharing as well, and then fromthere we go into.
We're still trying to refine it, but we currently do four
simulation scenarios onetabletop, then three in-situ
(17:00):
scenarios with a pediatricmannequin where at the moment
we're still umming and ahhing asto whether we cut that down to
three or not.
So it's constantly beingrevised and refined.
You should say yeah.
Deb Tauber (17:13):
Very, very cool, so thanks for sharing that.
Jared, do you have anyquestions about?
Jerrod Jeffries (17:19):
yeah, I mean it sounds more like you're
creating the science or kind ofa process that's with it, but
then there's always art on topand you know, as, as the old
saying goes, you know you'veseen one simulation site, you've
seen one, and, but there aresimilarities and patterns you
can apply to others.
But it sounds like you'reiterating, based off, you know,
(17:41):
the feedback you're getting,which is great, and I love to
see that it's Symtolead isgrowing.
Erin Carn-Bennett (17:48):
And is that just in New Zealand, or is that
across, you know?
Jerrod Jeffries (17:51):
Australia or other places as well?
Erin Carn-Bennett (17:53):
Yeah, so, yeah, it's just within our
hospital at the moment.
But yeah, we have had interest.
There has been a pediatriccenter in the States that was
interested and they kind ofobserve the simulations and be
on teams and things and beinvolved in the conversations
(18:22):
and things, and also we includedthem in the debrief as well.
So that was quite aninteresting experience.
Yeah, yeah, so not too surewhere it'll head in the future,
but we're just kind of rollingwith it and we've got our
program within the ED, which is,you know, pretty solid at the
moment.
I think we're running three orfour courses there this year.
(18:43):
We also run it for the NICU aswell.
I think we did that a couple oftimes last year.
We did, I think, close to 10courses of it last year.
So, yeah, we're just rollingwith.
However it pans out.
Really, we're building theairplane while we fly it, I
guess you could say.
Deb Tauber (19:03):
Thank you.
Jerrod Jeffries (19:04):
I think the best ones always do.
You got to launch, you got togo, you got to launch.
Deb Tauber (19:09):
Absolutely so, Erin.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe podcast.
You have a podcast, obviously,Jerrod, and I have a podcast,
and why don't you tell us alittle bit about how you started
it and kind of what some ofyour favorite things have been
since you've been on thisjourney?
Erin Carn-Bennett (19:27):
Yeah, I mean, it's been such a huge learning
experience and there's been somany skills that I've learned
about.
One of my best friends fromhigh school works in radio.
She's quite a famous radio hostin New Zealand and so she kind
of helped to get me in touchwith some people to help with
(19:48):
some stuff to get going, becauseshe knew people who were kind
of podcast producers for some ofthe top teams in the country
here and things like that.
So we were really lucky to havesome really good mentorship
from the start to get going andthings and the learning
continues.
But, yeah, in terms of guests,it's been phenomenal.
(20:08):
Our kind of ethos with sim nurseNZ is uh, we, our morning
ritual as a team is that we allsit and we have coffee and
there's myself, alisonCartwright and Marie Collinson
who are the three nurseeducators for the Douglas
Starship Simulation Program andwe were just finding we were
having these morning coffeeconversations and solving the
(20:31):
world's problems and we werelike man, we should be recording
this stuff.
It's pretty cool.
And so, yeah, we, in theclassic new zealand way we were
then on a team fishing trip andwe kind of dropped in that, hey,
you know how we're buildingthis new sim center.
Maybe we could have like apodcast suite in there.
And we were kind of like jokingaround with our big bosses and
(20:53):
they were like you can have apodcast if you want.
So then that kind of justsnowballed from there.
But essentially the ethos isthat we wanted to capture these
coffee style conversations of itjust being really casual, which
is sort of the New Zealand wayto be fair, but just allowing
the magic to kind of happen, andnot too rigid, and so we just
(21:19):
kind of went with that.
We were really blown away by.
We'd reached out to a number ofpretty big heavy hitters in the
simulation community and we'repretty early in the game here
and everyone just kind of cameon board and was really really
giving.
We've had some amazing guestsand it's it's really interesting
(21:41):
.
I'm not sure if you find it aswell, but, um, you kind of
forget you're in recording apodcast and yeah, it just kind
of becomes this naturalconversation and it's really fun
, especially with the three ofus.
We're all a bit, we're allslightly crazy, so it gets a
little, a little wild at times.
But yeah, we'd like to make itfun, we like to make jokes and
(22:03):
we learn so much, and so much ofwhat we've learned on the
podcast actually then permeatesthrough into our simulation
program as well.
So it's very much professionaldevelopment for us actually to
honest, I couldn't agree, Icould not agree more.
Deb Tauber (22:20):
I can't tell you the amount of gifts that our guests
have given us with their timeand their talent and their
stories, and I just feel so, sofortunate.
To have had the opportunity andthen, you know, to get Jared to
join made it even more excitingand fun.
Erin Carn-Bennett (22:39):
Yeah, thank you, yeah.
And I think on top of that isthen you meet in person.
Jerrod Jeffries (22:43):
Of course, most podcasts are virtual these days
and you know you connect withthem at a large conference,
wherever it is in the world, oryou hear a story of two other
people connecting throughlistening to someone else's pod.
You know being a guest on.
That to me is just absolutelyincredible when you hear a story
of a listener and then a guestsay oh, I started doing this and
(23:03):
you were the catalyst, or youknow because it was disseminated
through podcasts.
you're able to then connect andthat just really really warms me
.
But a lot of benefits, that'sfor sure.
Deb Tauber (23:12):
Absolutely.
I think.
The other thing that I've foundmost recently is more and more
people are asking to beinterviewed because it takes so
long to get your information outthere if you're going to be
peer reviewed and published.
By the time you get published,it's old news, it's old
information.
It's been just a great way todisseminate information and I
(23:37):
think we've got close to 150episodes.
Erin Carn-Bennett (23:41):
Wow, it's so impressive.
Deb Tauber (23:45):
Well, I think the fun thing is if you go to my
website, innovativesimsolutions.
com, you can type a person'sname in the podcast area and
their podcast will pop up ifthey've done an interview.
Erin Carn-Bennett (23:57):
Yeah, it's great, isn't it?
It's all that stuff.
That is incredibly helpful.
And you know, we started theSimNurseNZ podcast and we were
actually in Lisbon in Portugalfor the IPSSW in, I must say,
2023.
And then we all of a suddenwere being approached.
(24:18):
We had some little businesscards we were giving out and
things, and then I think Ijoined yeah, that was that was
the conference that I, it wasannounced I was joining the
board and so then conversationswere happening.
I had people come over andthey're like oh, you have a
podcast, we want a podcast,let's do, let's make one.
And so it just kind of onepodcast is now led into two
(24:40):
podcasts and it's been cool tothen now mentor.
You're watching people gothrough that process of I'm sure
you both remember, when youfirst start releasing podcasts
and things, that kind of likeanxiety of putting things out
into the internet and out intothe universe, and so coaching
and mentoring another group ofpeople to go through that was
(25:04):
really fascinating as well, andthere's just so many ways to do
it as well.
And you speak to other peoplelike I spoke to Victoria Brazel
and David Shablack and you knowthey'll share with you how they
do things and then you're like,oh, wow, like there's just
there's so many ways that youcan produce a podcast and it's
(25:25):
really, really fascinating andthere's so many skills that you
can learn that go alongside itas well.
Deb Tauber (25:31):
Right, yeah, David and William have been a lot of
help to us.
Yeah, appreciated their supportand we are here to support you
as well.
I'm excited for you on thispodcast journey across the world
and the other side of the world.
Now, do you have any finalwords you'd like to leave our
(25:51):
listeners?
Erin Carn-Bennett (25:52):
with.
I think if you are insimulation and you aren't part
of an organization, I think it'sa really good thing to do.
And that's not necessarily IPCSor SSIH or anything really I
mean those are wonderfulorganizations for sure.
But I think joining asimulation organization and
(26:14):
finding your tribe and justreally getting involved, you
know, in a special interestgroup or a committee or
something, is so beneficial.
You meet so many wonderful,amazing human beings.
You get access to a lot ofincredible resources and things.
If you're going to a conference,just go and talk to people.
That's, I mean I still I know Ipodcast and whatnot.
(26:38):
That's still something I dostruggle with a bit is just be
brave and go over and talk topeople.
Or go and have lunch with youknow, move around different
tables and go to the welcomedrinks and just go and say hi.
And it's just really amazingwhen you start to ask questions
of people of where they're fromand what they've done.
And the simulation community isso wonderful.
(27:00):
And, yeah, I just I would lovefor you to come and listen to
our podcast as well if you wouldlike to.
And uh, yeah, obviously SimCafe as well wonderful podcast.
So that's probably my finalwords, really, I guess thank you
, Jerro jared.
Deb Tauber (27:18):
You have any questions or anything?
Jerrod Jeffries (27:20):
no, I I appreciate you being on Erin.
It's great to get a perspectivefrom the other side of the
world, but also to realize thechallenges and what we're going
through.
And the connections you canmake are, of course, global and
hopefully it makes the world alittle bit smaller, being able
to connect and share your voice.
So thank you.
Deb Tauber (27:38):
Yeah, thank you so much, yep, all right, well, with
that, happy simulating.
Disclaimer/ Innovation S (27:45):
Thanks to Innovative Sim Solutions for
sponsoring this week's podcast.
With over 50 years ofexperience, they'll bring your
next simulation center to lifewith ease, confidence, while
saving you time and money.
Contact them today.
Thanks for joining us here atthe Sim Cafe.
(28:08):
We hope you enjoyed.
Visit us at www.
innovativesimsolutionscom and besure to hit that like and
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