July 8, 2024 • 43 mins
What if your greatest weakness was actually your greatest strength? Come along with us on the Simple Grace podcast as we welcome Chris Crabari, a steadfast friend and associate pastor at Reunion Church. Raised in a missionary household, Chris's journey from a childhood acceptance of Jesus during Vacation Bible School to an earnest, self-owned faith is nothing short of inspiring. He offers a moving testament to the power of children's ministry and the pivotal moments that define our spiritual paths, sharing how he discovered that faith must be personal and distinct from that of his parents.
We then navigate the profound and often challenging terrain of embracing disability through the lens of faith. Facing personal challenges like autism, we discuss how God's grace can evolve to meet us where we are, transforming perceived weaknesses into opportunities for His glory to shine. Through reflective biblical passages, we explore how our human frailty is a testament to God's strength, encouraging listeners to see their challenges as divine opportunities rather than setbacks.
Lastly, we delve into the universal experience of trials and surrender, drawing on Paul's reflections in 2 Corinthians. We illuminate how overwhelming hardships can lead us to shift our trust from ourselves to God. Through the lives of biblical figures such as Jesus, Moses, King Saul, and King David, we underscore the transformative power of humility, faith, and maintaining a personal connection with God. This episode is a beacon of hope, guiding us to discover the profound victory that lies in surrendering to God's grace and resurrection power. Join us for an episode that promises to enrich your spiritual journey and strengthen your faith.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
and hello again everybody.
This is pastor sean at simplegrace, and this is another
episode of the simple gracepodcast.
I'm uh glad that you found usand I hope that you're
encouraged in the new covenantof grace.
We're going to have aconversation today with chris
krabari, who's a good friend.
I'm gonna go ahead and bringhim in here.
(00:23):
Hey, chris.
Chris, how you doing?
I think you've muted there yougo.
How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
How you doing today.
It's been a really busy dayhere at work so I just wrapped
up work, but yeah, yeah, goingreally good.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Awesome.
Well, before we get into ourconversation, I just want to do
a verse of the week that we talkabout.
Today's verse of the week isRomans 5.2.
Do a verse of the week that wetalk about.
Today's verse of the week isRomans 5.2.
It says through whom?
Jesus, the Lord Jesus, we haveaccess by faith into this grace
in which we stand and rejoice inthe hope of the glory of God.
And I bring that verse upbecause it's one of the most
(00:58):
important verses that teaches ushow we access the grace of God
that he promises in the newcovenant of grace.
You know it's ours and he saysit's all been given to you.
You're a new creation, you haveeverything that you need, but
it's by faith that you'll accessthat.
So it's the living dependenceupon him, the living connection
(01:20):
with him.
Jesus never says he wants tohelp us live the Christian life.
He says he wants to live us,live the Christian life.
He says he wants to live theChristian life through us and
our whole identity is based onwhat he did on the cross and
then his promises that he makesto us.
So as we get into this now,that's just going to be kind of.
(01:41):
Our foundation is living byfaith, and we'll see if that
connects with what you tell us.
Yeah, so, chris, why don't youtell us a little bit about
yourself?
Uh, we've been friends forquite a while and uh, so, uh,
I'd like to just give you thefloor and tell us how you became
a christian, what the what itlooked like for chris krabari to
(02:02):
grow up in this cruel, cruelworld.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll go high level and then, if
there's like a point you want toemphasize, that's totally cool.
So, let's see, grew up inCalifornia for the first 10
years of my life and then ourfamily moved to Colorado in 2007
.
And then been here ever sincethey all left me and I'm still
(02:26):
here.
So, um, I, I'm like a fakenative in Colorado.
So I, I love Colorado, lovebeing here, love what God's
doing with Christians here inColorado.
Um, I got saved.
It's hard to remember the orderI get, but I believe it was when
I was nine at a vacation Bibleschool and I can, I will always
(02:49):
emphasize the importance of kidsministry because of my own
testimony of.
I don't remember the leader, Idon't know their name or who
they were or whatever, but youknow we just you know how VPS
usually ends during the summer,where there's like a gospel
presentation and the teachertalks about the gospel and Jesus
and grace, and I grew up aChristian.
So I was like, oh, I alreadyknow this stuff.
(03:09):
Like my mom and dad areChristian, like they were
missionaries, you know for yearsin the 90s, like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Where were they?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
missionaries at.
So they were missionaries in, Ibelieve it's just Russia was
the big one.
My dad was there for like ninemonths.
Russia was the big one.
My dad was there for like ninemonths.
And then my mom was there for alittle but she was pregnant.
So she had to go home earlyCause she did not want to give
birth to a baby in Russia post1989 and all that.
(03:35):
So cause they went out in 94,93.
So right after the collapse andof the Soviet union.
So, yeah, not the best time.
Yeah, so like not the idealtime.
The Soviet Union?
So yeah, not the best time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so like notthe ideal time to give birth to
my sister.
So my mom went back but my dadwas out there for like I think
it was nine months or close to ayear, Like he was out there for
(03:57):
a minute as a missionary.
So and then I think I think theysaid they were missionaries in
Ireland, which is like okay, I'mpretty sure the whole country's
Christian, but but yeah, thosewere the two countries.
So but yeah, anyway, I grew upwith like a mission, kind of a
mission mentality in the home ofyou know, like, whether it's
(04:20):
local or global, there's amission somewhere that God has
you on.
So with that backdrop, when Iwas nine in the vbs it's the
summer, like it just didn'tresonate a personal relationship
with jesus, until this leaderkind of um pressed and like
asked like hey, do you guys havea relationship with jesus?
(04:40):
Like what do you think aboutjesus?
What do you?
You've learned all this stuffabout god, like creation and
redemption and all this stuff,um, and then he kind of really
emphasized the big thing for mewas that, like your parents have
relationship with Jesus, butyou don't yet and you get to,
and that's something that youneed and you get to have God's
grace.
And that was kind of the kickerfor me of like, oh, like
(05:03):
everyone, like you're not justborn into it, you know, you're
not born into a relationshipwith Jesus.
You get to have one and start arelationship, kind of like a
marriage or anything.
It's just not there.
You have to like go meet theperson and learn who they are
and stuff.
So, yeah, got saved at nine andthen, yeah, ever since then
have been a Christian, kind ofjust grew up a church kid and
(05:25):
now I faithfully serve at areunion church as an associate
pastor, teaching when the otherguys don't want to.
So that's kind of like the, themini version of my testimony,
but yeah, I mean, I mean that'skind of the high level for me or
my testimony.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
OK, thank you.
Yeah, so we you know we're heretalking about the grace of god
and the new covenant and livingby faith.
So tell me, in your life, whathas been the impact of grace and
maybe what was the developmentof your understanding of grace
(06:04):
over time and maybe differentseasons or eras of your life?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, I think I kind of take the way that NT Wright
kind of thinks about faith,where there's kind of like
phases of being a Christianwhere you kind of not circular
but you kind of go back to thesame things over and over in
your faith, where you know youthink you figured out grace at
one phase and then the nextphase you're like, oh, this is
(06:30):
really what grace is, and thenthis is really what grace is.
So, yeah, for me, I think thefirst time I understood the
encounter with God's grace is mymom's parenting, you know,
growing up with autism and herhaving to learn how to be
graceful with me, and then sheasking for God's grace to be in.
How do you raise someone withautism?
(06:53):
And also there's other, there'sfour other kids in the family.
How does she do all that as astay at home mom?
And I learned a lot of this asI got older too, but just how
difficult it was to raisesomeone who's on the spectrum,
who's autistic, who is not likethe other kids, but you don't
know why either, and it's thenineties and there's not a lot
of resources, um, and then Ithink, as I got older, um, I
(07:16):
think like, say, high schooltime.
Uh, my brother and I my olderbrother and I had a lot of
friction where we stoppedtalking to each other.
We hated each other.
There's a lot of distance thereand it took a long time to heal
, you know, a brokenrelationship in the home.
And I think it was right, whenhe was about to leave for
college, that we kind ofreconciled and got to encounter
(07:37):
God's grace again.
And then, I think recently Ilearned grace.
I feel like every day now in amuch deeper way.
Now that I'm married in ministryit's kind of hard, like God
makes it very obvious how muchgrace he gives in so many ways,
you know, especially now that mywife's pregnant, she has her
(07:58):
daughter that's going to be bornin October, in October, like,
just the amount of time of timesI asked for grace in the last
six months has probably beenmore than any other time in my
life.
You know just that.
You know, with all thecomplications and the scares and
it just yeah, I think, as theseasons go on, every time I ask
(08:21):
for grace it's a more deeper,more understanding of no God.
I need all of your grace, notlike just this area, like every
corner and inch and cinch of mylife.
I need you in everything,whereas I think when I was
younger in faith it was more ofwell.
I need you in this thing becauseI have an addiction, or I need
(08:41):
this grace in school or work orthis relationship.
It was never.
You know all of God's grace allthe time, which your book
brilliantly points out that youknow it's an all or nothing
thing with God.
So, yeah, I think as theseasons go on, my understanding
of grace just gets deeper anddeeper grace just gets deeper
(09:09):
and deeper, man, hearing youtalk about um having autism.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
You know because I have a son who has autism, uh,
john, and he's uh 21 now andhe's great, he is awesome, he's
such a sweetheart, uh, but itwasn't always easy.
In fact, it was one of thegreatest trials in in our lives
my wife and I.
It was, you know, raising achild with disability.
(09:32):
You having a disability in thatway perspective that we haven't
even talked about on thispodcast.
Really Like what does that makeyou think?
When I just kind of bring upthat topic, because you
(09:56):
mentioned it a little bit, butcould you dive in even deeper
into that Because I think youmight have some insight that
would be really really helpfulfor anybody following Jesus.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
So go deeper on that, for me, really helpful for
anybody following Jesus.
So go to your own that.
So one of my favorite passagesin the Bible is I wish I knew
where it was, but it's in theGospels.
It's in there, and it's whenJesus essentially talks about
the, the man who's blind, andall the disciples like, ah, who
made this guy blind?
Was it his father's sin?
Was it this, was it that?
And then Jesus just abruptly islike no, I made him blind, like
(10:30):
I did.
You know, I chose that.
You know who has made the deafand blind and all that.
It was me, so that God may beglorified.
And it's such a profound versebecause it both makes sense to
me right now, in this moment,and also, doesn't you know,
because there's days where it'slike, well, you know, is this
(10:51):
part of sin?
Is it not?
Is it?
Is it my corrupted nature?
Is it God blessing me withsomething, some insight into the
world to see things differentlyor look at things differently?
See things differently or lookat things differently, like um,
and I think that's one of thoseverses that really helps,
especially with um.
Oh, who is the guy that davidhelped?
(11:12):
Was it michael or michellemephibosheth?
Yeah, that's who it was.
That's who it was, where we seeall these examples of people
who have quote-unquotedisabilities and how God's grace
is just overflowing for thosepeople, just as much as
everybody else.
But I think the best startingpoint is that that passage with
Jesus is his perspective of like, no, like I made you that way
(11:36):
and I love you that way.
Like I'm going to be glorifiedthrough your life and you matter
.
You're not a mistake.
So I think that's the startingpoint when you talk about
disability and grace and who Godis his character.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Paul said you know that he had this thorn in the
side, some sort of weakness,some sort of struggle.
We don't know exactly what itwas.
Maybe he was blind or whatever.
Um and uh, he said he pleadedwith god three times that it
would be taken away yeah and Ibet, I bet those prayers were
(12:14):
epic.
Yeah, I bet, I bet they were,like you know, for the glory of
your kingdom, this healing, youknow, for the Thunderous.
Yeah, I mean just yeah.
I mean he had every probablyargument, you know, and yet the
Lord just told him no, yeah.
(12:35):
And then on the third time, hegave him a simple response.
And it's just so profound andthe Lord is so glorious when he
says my strength is made perfectin weakness.
My grace is sufficient for you.
We think of our weakness as aliability.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Especially to God.
I think of my sin as aliability to God.
I think of all my weakness as aliability to God.
I think of all my weakness as aliability to God.
He looks at us as an asset.
It's our humanity.
That is the vehicle that hislife is delivered to this world.
(13:20):
It's the Amazon truck that thepackage of his grace has
delivered his word, our lives.
And even so, you know, he madeus human and then he put us in
broken bodies sometimes, or havebroken parts to our physique or
or psyche, or all thisbrokenness, and we're like, yeah
(13:40):
, what like, how, what Like, howcan this be for your glory, god
?
Yeah, but we don't understand atthe first glance that the
weaker we are, the more he'sglorified when we represent his
son and deliver his son to thepeople around us by faith right,
(14:04):
because it all has to do withfaith Can we trust not only his
plan and his purpose but that hewill live through us?
Because the Bible still saysthat every person is to present
their members to God, no matterhow wrinklyly weird and weak our
(14:25):
members are.
We're to present them to thelord as being alive from the
dead, to do righteousness to, tolet his, to let jesus live
through us in that.
So sorry, I took a few momentsto like sneak a preach in there,
but no, no, no, I mean isn'thalf of being a pastor is
seeking, seeking to preach, likein the middle of lunch or
(14:47):
podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
So, um, or an argument, um, I'll just leave it
at that.
Um, but no, like I always thinkof, uh, romans, chapter 9,
about vessels of honor anddishonor.
Like, at the end of the day,we're all vessels and some
vessels are chipped and some arepainted well and beautiful and
(15:08):
adorned um, but every vessel canbe a vessel of honor and
dishonor and it's not up to uswhat type of vessel we are.
God decides ultimately.
Um, and I know that chapter canoften lead to a lot of very
deep theological um underningsof like, well, how does God do
that and why?
And it's like, well, I don't, Idon't.
(15:29):
I think the main thing is thatwe're vessels and then you know
God has a plan and there's apurpose behind it and you're not
God, so you don't necessarilyneed to know why.
Sometimes you know, like Paul,we don't ever have an answer to
why Paul got the thorn to side.
Like we never got an answer toa lot of people that suffer in
the Bible, like Joe, joe neverfound out why he went through
(15:50):
what he went through.
Yeah, habakkuk.
When Habakkuk, we just wentthrough a series at our church
and and, frustratingly, you readthe whole book and there's
never a moment where God's likeall right, here's why I did what
I did.
You know, sending this, Ibelieve, is the Chaldeans to you
know, basically crush you andbattle and enslave your people
(16:12):
and all this stuff.
And Habakkuk was like, why he'slike?
And then God just completelyanswered differently and did not
give him the answer he wasexpecting.
So it's like over and over.
There's this pattern of like.
No, no, just trust me.
Like like God.
God has this.
Like you don't need, you don'tneed to know.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, and John the Baptist.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
John the Baptist Right, the red herring of the
Bible, yeah, yeah, so he's likeJesus.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
what is going on here ?
Like I'm your best friend, I'myour cousin, why don't you tell
me what's going on right?
And uh, he never gets an answerlike no.
And there's this book by um.
Um, oh, it's drawing a blankright now, but it's called the
prisoner in the third cell, umI've read that it's a great book
(17:02):
.
Yeah, and it deals with thatvery question of the fact that
we don't get to understand why,maybe on this side of heaven,
but there will be a day when wewalk hand in hand with Jesus and
we will get all the whysanswered.
It comes through relationship,right, but he knows that what we
need more than the answer whyis answered?
(17:22):
Uh, it'll it.
It comes through relationship,right, but he knows that what we
need more than the answer whyis him?
Yeah, he knows that, and hegives himself, without reserve,
100 of the time to us, andthat's the one thing that we can
depend on as we're, as we'regoing through these trials is is
that he gives himselfcompletely without reservation
(17:44):
to us, and not just walking nextto us but to live through us,
the intimacy and therelationship of a heavenly
father, of a bridegroom.
The Holy Spirit is all of thatto us, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Even Joseph has one of the best responses to this in
Genesis 50, 20, where it's whatyou, my brothers, intended for
evil, god made for good.
Like.
There are ways and things thatGod is doing that are beyond our
understanding, and I even readin one book, just one of those
books on God's sovereignty oflike.
Have we ever considered that ifwe did know everything on God's
(18:24):
mind that it would be too muchto handle?
Like that it would be too muchto like we'd be frozen,
essentially, like stuck in ourstep of like?
Oh, that's what's going on.
Like that's why this ishappening.
Oh, I don't.
I don't want to do anything now,like I'm, I'm overwhelmed, you
know and I, it's kind of likewhen, when you're a kid and you
have to trust your parents, or,as a parent, your kid has to
(18:45):
trust you of like, hey, if youknew everything on my mind of
the bills are due today and Ihave a thing happening at work
and my boss is angry at me andthere's tension in the marriage
and this other sibling told methis thing and this other
sibling ran into the street andI just saved their life and now
I'm like panicking, like like somany things are going on you
don't even know.
You know, like you just got totrust me, like it's like the
(19:08):
only trust me, bro, that mattersin life is when Jesus tells us
like no, just trust me, all ofmy grace, all the time.
You're good, you're safe,you're in the canopy of my wings
and you don't need to knoweverything, which is weird
because in our Western Americansociety we're very knowledge
based.
You know, we don't go torestaurants until we check Yelp.
(19:29):
Or we don't go do things untilwe know absolutely with 1000
percent certainty this is thebest thing ever.
Or, if you're me, like youdon't watch a movie unless
you've read every review likeit's just we need to know, we
just need to know these things,and god's like you know.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Just trust me yeah, um, because it seems like it's a
risk.
Yeah, why would I take anunnecessary risk if I can
prepare myself with moreinformation?
Or you, you know?
So where's that line of likeliving by faith versus doing due
(20:07):
diligence to try to see scopeout what's ahead?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, I like the way that John Lennox kind of defines
faith is that faith is not anabsence, it's not the absence of
evidence, it's theunderstanding of it.
Of that you know, god has beenevident in my life over and over
again of delivering, of beingthere.
You know all the promises ofGod, like the advice that I give
(20:34):
a lot of people, because we'vehad a lot of.
We have one funeral coming upfor our church and then someone
else who might be having someonepass away their daughter and
she's like well, what do I do?
And you know it's hard to justtell someone that we have to
keep trusting God, even in thesetimes of deep, deep darkness,
that God's grace is here somehow, even if I can't tell you what
(20:56):
that is, because it's not my jobto tell you.
I don't know what's going on.
You know, um, but we do knowthat you know, like this, this
church member that we have,whose daughter has cerebral
palsy and she's 42.
So she's well beyond thelifespan that was expected of
her.
Um, I believe the averageperson with cerebral palsy lives
(21:19):
maybe to the age of 10, 15, 20,and she's double that you know.
So there's a promise there of,like you know God told this
member in our church that yourdaughter is going to have a long
full life and she has.
She's lived longer than almostanybody else with that sort of
again disability, where God'swork and grace has been known,
(21:41):
where people have seen her lifeand like, wow, like this is
amazing.
This is an amazing testimony.
It's like, yeah, well, it'sbecause God, because the doctors
can't explain it.
No one can explain it, you know.
So I think, yeah, I think Idon't know maybe you can shed
light on this but I think ourunderstanding of grace is really
(22:02):
revealed and our trust isreally revealed.
And the tough times, not theeasy ones, because it's like oh
do I really trust God witheverything and every aspect, and
so I think that's where theevidence is revealed is.
You know, is my trust evident?
It's evident when it's tested.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, so in 2 Corinthians you're absolutely
right.
In 2 Corinthians, chapter 1,paul sheds some light on that.
He says for we do not want youto be ignorant brethren of our
trouble which came to us in Asia.
So apparently somethinghappened to him in Asia.
You know, he doesn't ever tellus what it is at all.
(22:48):
And I think that's because hedoesn't want us to get hung up
on that detail, because he wantsus to apply this to our lives,
because look what he says thatwe were burdened beyond measure.
So something was a burden onthem and it was beyond measure,
which means you couldn't measureit.
If you tried to stretch out ameasuring tape, it would come to
(23:12):
the end and the trouble was waybigger than that.
There's a bigger problem andyou could even fathom than you
could even imagine.
And then he says burden beyondmeasure, above strength, that
means whatever this trial was,no matter how hard they tried,
they could never overcome it.
And that's again these trials.
(23:35):
And Paul wants us to think ofour own lives and we can
identify with this and I canidentify a trial that can't be
measured.
And I can identify a trial thatis, no matter how hard I tried,
I couldn't overcome it, so thatwe despaired even of life.
I mean he literally said theywould rather have died than go
through this trial, and so manyof us can identify with that.
(23:59):
I mean where death would be asweet release for compared to
the thing that we're goingthrough.
Right, yes, we had the Okay.
Now he's starting to bring somespiritual knowledge to it.
He says, yes, we had thesentence of death in ourselves.
So there's the purpose.
There's something that neededto die, and that's the purpose
(24:22):
of this trial so that, so thatwe should not trust in ourselves
, but in God, who raises thedead.
Yeah, what an amazing andbeautiful, perfect justification
and and purpose for trials andthe worst trials.
(24:45):
There's something in me thatneeds to die.
What is that?
It's my self-trust.
It's my thinking that I canlive the Christian life, my
thinking that there's somethingI can do or need to do to get
myself out of this trial or toobtain some sort of victory in
this trial.
God's already won the victory.
How do I get it?
I die.
(25:05):
I have to understand that I'vedied with him on the cross and
that identity piece is so hugebecause, along with dying with
him on the cross, I can alsobelieve that I have been raised
with him.
And that's where he says thatwe should not trust in ourselves
, but in god, who raises thedead.
Who is me?
Yeah, I am he, I am the one,yeah, most of the dead.
(25:28):
And it says who delivered usfrom so great a death and does
deliver us and we trust willstill deliver us.
So it doesn't matter what timeframe of your life the past, the
present or the future, thatthis you know.
Trial is happening, but it's umthe resurrection.
Life of grace is efficient,effective and powerful in all
(25:51):
those things.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
So anyway that, yes, paul does give us the perfect
teaching on what um trials areable to accomplish in our lives.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, one.
That's what I've starteddubbing the surrendered life.
There's the enslaved life andthe surrendered life.
And the enslaved life is youknow, I get to live however I
want, do whatever I want, I'm myown God.
Even if I don't believe in God,I am my own God.
You know that's to live howeverI want, do whatever I want.
I'm my own God.
Even if I don't believe in God,I am my own God.
You know, that's just howpeople operate.
(26:25):
And then the surrendered lifeis a paradox, because to find
victory from sin and death andshame and all of that, you have
to give up like like, completelygive up, like I.
I Can't do any of this and Ineed someone else who's greater
and stronger and loving All theOmnis, omni-benevolent,
(26:47):
omni-potent, Just somebody,beyond all these struggles that
I have to swoop in and save theday.
I need Superman, because I'mtied to the tracks, there's
goons around and I can't doanything, helpless.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I haven't heard the word goons in a long time.
I know right.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I just watched a movie trailer.
I think that's why.
But I think what's crazy islike when we deny God's grace.
It's like someone who's tied tothe tracks.
He's like no, I'm good Superman, I got this, I'm my own God.
You know, I'm strong enough,I'm great enough, I'm good
enough.
You know, I've been in asituation like this before and
(27:27):
God's basically standing therelike Superman, like you.
Sure, there's a train comingand there's bad guys and you
can't do this.
You literally can't.
You need me, you need a momentof grace all the time.
And the surrendered life is theacknowledgement of there's
something missing that only Godcan fill, and it's his grace and
it's his power and it's his umresurrection ability to save us
(27:49):
that we can't, you know Um.
So that paradox is reallypowerful.
That true victory in God is umrealizing I'm a victim to sin
and then I'm damaged and I needgod in every aspect of my life,
every way.
I need to just fully surrenderand embrace the process of
(28:10):
radical transformation andcharacter formation.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, so it's beautiful um what happens when
you hold on to idols in yourheart.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Then you don't fully surrender I don't think you're
fully connected to god when youfully, when you're not fully,
just have god in mind, um, solike.
I think idols come in allshapes and forms.
There's the easy ones, likethere's the idol of um sexual
(28:51):
gratification, of pornography or, um, you know sleeping around.
There's the easy idols of work,of I need to look the best and
be the best so that I havemeaning and purpose in my life.
People need to know that I'mgreat, people need to know my
name.
And then there's the smalleridols, where I think of small
(29:16):
idols.
Right now we're expecting adaughter, and just the
conversations you have around anewborn of like oh, what size
are they right now?
Are they in this percentile orthat percentile?
And I've never looked at thepercentile because I don't care,
you know, I'm just glad that Ihave a daughter on the way.
Like it doesn't matter how theyshow up.
You know they could show upwith four legs and I'd still
(29:37):
love them.
Like it's my daughter.
You know, it doesn't matter.
Like it it's my daughter, itdoesn't matter it literally
doesn't matter, but everyquestion is like oh, where are
they at?
How are they doing?
Always this comparison andcomparison is the killer of joy.
True joy is only found in Jesusand comparison is where sin
comes in.
Of like, oh, but are you great?
(29:59):
Jesus, stand on this mountainand look above all these lands
Fall off and the angels willcatch you.
You know all these temptationsthat the Satan gives of
greatness and glory and gold,and it's useless and worthless
when we really think about it.
But that's the hard partbecause we're sinners also in
the sanctification story Is thatthose things look really
(30:24):
appealing in the moment, andeven for people who have been
walking with Jesus for a verylong time, because they usually
tempt us when we're the mostsusceptible and the most
troubled.
You know, like, I think, of allthe people that we consult and
comfort in church, and everytime they talk about a struggle
(30:46):
happening in their marriage orwork or something, it usually
started right after a period ofintense stress and testing or
trouble, or it sneaks its way invery slowly in a very easy time
in life yeah um yeah, all timeswhen you are tempted to take
(31:11):
you know, when you make choicesto not be, uh, vigilant yeah
Speaker 1 (31:18):
your connection with jesus like, oh, I don't need to
pray, I don't need to seek him.
You know and I'm not sayingprayer is like this magic thing,
but it's indicative of arelationship with him that's
built on humility and faith isthat we're praying and we're
seeking him in the word, justdelighting in his presence and
(31:39):
delighting in his face, right.
So you know, our identity isfound there, in our personal
connection with him.
So, as we are growing in thatidentity and becoming firm in
that identity and standingstrong in that identity, that's
what Jesus was able to respondwith every time the devil
(32:02):
tempted him.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, that identity.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
That's what jesus was able to respond with every time
the devil tempted him.
Yeah, you know the devil.
Right before that, god said youare my beloved son.
Right then the devil comesalong and says if you're the son
you know, the devilconveniently leaves out that,
the love relationship part andhe wanted, uh, jesus, to think
(32:24):
of himself in terms of myperformance, what I do, not, who
I am, and that's what the devilis always trying to get us to
do.
So it's our identity and whatJesus has already said is true
about us that we discoverthrough intimate relationship
with him that that's what youknow, gives us the strength to
(32:49):
cast out those idols and thenhelps us to present our members
as instruments for his life andrighteousness to live through.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, and I think the scary thing that my dad always
says too is that most people whoare deceived don't even know
that they're deceived.
And having idols is a granddeception, and we always joke
like, sometimes like, oh, Ican't believe so and so famous
person was in a cult or in thiscrazy group group, and it's like
(33:19):
, well, yeah, they didn't either.
At first.
You know, um, you didn'trealize you're going to get
hooked on um whatever substanceor addiction to your phone or
sex or whatever it is.
You didn't know that at thebeginning.
It was just a little compromise, it was a window of opportunity
, you know.
You thought you could get awayand you didn't.
(33:41):
You got hooked, you know, um.
So deception is scary because Ithink a lot of times we don't
even know that we're deceived.
And my wife and I talk aboutthat a lot of like what are,
what are the things that you seein me that I don't?
And we'll have thatconversation sometimes of like,
well, lately you've had justlike a really um short temper,
you know, and it's like, oh well, if I read about moses, I know
(34:02):
what really short temper, youknow, and it's like, oh well, if
I read about Moses, I know whata short temper can lead to.
You know, or or?
Lately you've been verycowardly around committing to
things.
Oh well, if we look at KingSaul, we know what cowardice
leads to.
It leads to being anointed byGod to be the leader of the
Jewish people and then beingde-anointed.
(34:22):
You know what like how does thathappen, you know, because of
this pattern of slowly fallingmore and more into the deception
of you know, it's all on me,which our church.
The reason I bring that up iswe're going through the life of
King David and it's amazing justto see the humility and faith
(34:43):
that David had in God and allthose trials and situations.
For the most part, he failed,of course, but then, of course,
the author of 1 Samuel is doingthis parallel of like oh, here's
the two, the only two peoplewho are anointed in this book,
saul and David.
And Saul starts out cowardlyand stays more cowardly.
(35:05):
You know, when he's introducedas King, he's hiding behind
luggage Um.
When he's called out to fightGoliath, he hides in a tent
instead of the front lines, Um,whereas David is out in the open
and just trusting God.
He's like this guy, this guy'sgonna, you know, scare you, like
that's it.
You know I've taken lions andbears and God guy's gonna, you
know, scare you, like that's it.
You know I've taken lions andbears and God delivered me then
(35:26):
he will deliver me now, like whywould I be?
scared, um, so I don't know.
I I wonder if there's ascripture that maybe touches on
how the, how humility and faithin God can um be empowering in a
(35:46):
way?
Because David had this, like nowthat we're going through it,
this empowered cadence in hisearly years of just no, god's
got this.
I don't need to like this.
I don't want to say pride, butmaybe like boasting in the Lord
and the way that he carriedhimself in his young years.
That is really unique in theBible, at least that we've
(36:09):
discovered when going throughthe series of like oh no, he
just had absolute surrender, hewas just fully trusting God,
this little 16 year old, youknow, trusting God more than a
grown man that didn't want to gointo battle or all these other
stories that are the first halfof or the latter half of, first
samuel, um, but yeah, it'sinteresting how humiliating
(36:31):
faith is, actually kind of likea no, I'm proud to be god's
child, I'm proud to be full ofhis grace, I'm proud to like be
empowered by him.
The holy spirit, um, yeah, butyou would know more than I maybe
.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Well, it says in second corinthians, chapter
three, that, uh, we use great.
Therefore, we use greatboldness of speech.
Yeah, you know where we'reproclaiming our total, utter
dependency on jesus, and we'rewe proudly proclaim that it's
never me, it's always him.
And then it's the power workingin him, yeah, that raised him
(37:06):
from the dead, yeah, that isworking through us, alive in us.
I think that one's in galatiansor ephesians, uh, and so as, as
we present our members to him,reckon the things to be true
that god has revealed to us, uh,his life and his power is the
thing you know.
And that's a life of humilityand faith.
(37:26):
It's a relational life, youknow, by faith, we reckon the
things to be true that he'srevealed to us through His
Spirit, and then, with humility,we present our lives to Him and
say here I'm an open book.
I fill my heart, fill my mind,my mind is yours, my eyes are
yours, my hand's yours,everything belongs to you.
So, live through me, and hedoes.
(37:48):
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, you actually just reminded me of one of my
favorite scriptures, micah,chapter seven, verse eight,
where Micah is talking to God.
It's like this wrap up betweenthe whole book and highly
recommend a book.
It's like top five book for mein the Bible.
And it just ends with this,like just hinting and allusions
to the grace that's to come.
And verse eight talks about howMicah says though I fall, I
(38:16):
will rise.
The Lord will be a light for me,kind of alluding to like, no
matter what happens in theseason of israel and what's
going on, um, though I dwell indarkness, the lord will light
for me.
That, um, in the end it's allgoing to work out, whether now
or later or even into eternity.
That, um, even micah had thatconfidence, that boldness of.
(38:41):
Even in the old covenant he hada new covenant mentality, which
is interesting, um, yeah, yeah,yeah.
I always love when, with newcovenant eyes, we can look at
the old testament and see godsprinkling like, oh, something,
something crazy is about to godown, you have no idea.
(39:01):
And just the way he alludes tothe grace that's to come for all
people.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, it truly is all about Jesus and it points to
him, whether it's lookingforward or looking back, yeah,
and I think that's great.
Well, so let's let's wrap it uphere yeah, what do you think
the future holds for you?
What are you called to do?
What is the lord doing in yourlife?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
yeah, I think um, right now it's um.
I'm thinking a lot aboutfatherhood because I'm being
becoming a father for the firsttime, so what that looks like.
And I've already started theapology tour to my own dad of
like, um, you know just, I'msorry, I did this.
I'm sorry I did that you knowhe's like, that's okay.
(39:50):
Um, you have a few more storiesbefore you catch up to the other
siblings with kids, causeapparently they apologize all
the time.
Um, now that they're raisingkids.
So I think fatherhood is one.
Um, I think there's definitelybeen a turn in my maturity.
I've noticed just personallywith Jesus, because we actually
had one story and I'll keep itbrief, but around week 15, where
(40:14):
we had a big trial during thepregnancy where we thought my
wife Glory had a miscarriage andshe had all the signs of
miscarriage.
It was Sunday morning.
I was meant to preach thatmorning and an hour before
church, you know, she wakes up.
We see the signs of miscarriage, if you know what they are
Don't want to be graphic on thecall and we're like we got to go
(40:35):
to the hospital, we go to theemergency room and from eight to
three we're there the whole dayand I can't stop crying.
But going back to thatidolization, I realized I had an
idol, that I loved my daughtermore than God and I kind of did
battle with God in prayer oflike am I still good if she goes
(40:56):
to heaven, if you don't see heragain?
Am I still good if you get toraise her and you and you get to
be a dad here on earth insteadof seeing her later on.
You know, and that was like abig, big learning curve of like,
yes, god, you are still goodWhether or not I get to have my
daughter on earth or in eternity.
(41:17):
And even now, with all thefunerals that are happening,
it's like God is still good,even in this dark, dark time for
a lot of our members.
So, yeah, so I think right nowit's a refining in the
sanctification story.
For me, it's a refining processthat's going on.
Awesome, it's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well, thank you, I think you've been very well
spoken today and you can tellthat God has been developing you
into the image of Christ, andso it's it's cool.
It's been cool to connect withyou again today.
Yeah, we got to get.
We got to get Andrew on hereand and get him get his story
too.
So we'll I'm going to wrap usup with a moment of prayer and
(41:59):
then we'll we'll be done.
Yeah.
So, our heavenly father, we justinvite you into our lives and
everyone who's listening we justinvite you into our lives.
Show us your good, good grace.
You are a tremendous father.
You never fail, you have aheart of love for us and you
(42:20):
certainly are willing to walkwith us through any trial, and
you have purposes that are sodeep that we may not even be
able to understand, but we canknow the things that are very
true, which is that you are goodand you are loving and you love
us.
So we stand on those things.
I pray for Chris.
(42:41):
I pray that you give him thepower of your spirit as he
preaches, as he serves, as heworks and as he is a father and
a husband.
In Jesus' name, I pray, Amen.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
All right, well, thanks, chris.
We'll wrap it up here.
Talk to you next time.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, appreciate it, man.
Thank you so much, bye.
and hello again everybody.
This is pastor sean at simplegrace, and this is another
episode of the simple gracepodcast.
I'm uh glad that you found usand I hope that you're
encouraged in the new covenantof grace.
We're going to have aconversation today with chris
krabari, who's a good friend.
I'm gonna go ahead and bringhim in here.
(00:23):
Hey, chris.
Chris, how you doing?
I think you've muted there yougo.
How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
How you doing today.
It's been a really busy dayhere at work so I just wrapped
up work, but yeah, yeah, goingreally good.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Awesome.
Well, before we get into ourconversation, I just want to do
a verse of the week that we talkabout.
Today's verse of the week isRomans 5.2.
Do a verse of the week that wetalk about.
Today's verse of the week isRomans 5.2.
It says through whom?
Jesus, the Lord Jesus, we haveaccess by faith into this grace
in which we stand and rejoice inthe hope of the glory of God.
And I bring that verse upbecause it's one of the most
(00:58):
important verses that teaches ushow we access the grace of God
that he promises in the newcovenant of grace.
You know it's ours and he saysit's all been given to you.
You're a new creation, you haveeverything that you need, but
it's by faith that you'll accessthat.
So it's the living dependenceupon him, the living connection
(01:20):
with him.
Jesus never says he wants tohelp us live the Christian life.
He says he wants to live us,live the Christian life.
He says he wants to live theChristian life through us and
our whole identity is based onwhat he did on the cross and
then his promises that he makesto us.
So as we get into this now,that's just going to be kind of.
(01:41):
Our foundation is living byfaith, and we'll see if that
connects with what you tell us.
Yeah, so, chris, why don't youtell us a little bit about
yourself?
Uh, we've been friends forquite a while and uh, so, uh,
I'd like to just give you thefloor and tell us how you became
a christian, what the what itlooked like for chris krabari to
(02:02):
grow up in this cruel, cruelworld.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll go high level and then, if
there's like a point you want toemphasize, that's totally cool.
So, let's see, grew up inCalifornia for the first 10
years of my life and then ourfamily moved to Colorado in 2007
.
And then been here ever sincethey all left me and I'm still
(02:26):
here.
So, um, I, I'm like a fakenative in Colorado.
So I, I love Colorado, lovebeing here, love what God's
doing with Christians here inColorado.
Um, I got saved.
It's hard to remember the orderI get, but I believe it was when
I was nine at a vacation Bibleschool and I can, I will always
(02:49):
emphasize the importance of kidsministry because of my own
testimony of.
I don't remember the leader, Idon't know their name or who
they were or whatever, but youknow we just you know how VPS
usually ends during the summer,where there's like a gospel
presentation and the teachertalks about the gospel and Jesus
and grace, and I grew up aChristian.
So I was like, oh, I alreadyknow this stuff.
(03:09):
Like my mom and dad areChristian, like they were
missionaries, you know for yearsin the 90s, like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Where were they?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
missionaries at.
So they were missionaries in, Ibelieve it's just Russia was
the big one.
My dad was there for like ninemonths.
Russia was the big one.
My dad was there for like ninemonths.
And then my mom was there for alittle but she was pregnant.
So she had to go home earlyCause she did not want to give
birth to a baby in Russia post1989 and all that.
(03:35):
So cause they went out in 94,93.
So right after the collapse andof the Soviet union.
So, yeah, not the best time.
Yeah, so like not the idealtime.
The Soviet Union?
So yeah, not the best time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so like notthe ideal time to give birth to
my sister.
So my mom went back but my dadwas out there for like I think
it was nine months or close to ayear, Like he was out there for
(03:57):
a minute as a missionary.
So and then I think I think theysaid they were missionaries in
Ireland, which is like okay, I'mpretty sure the whole country's
Christian, but but yeah, thosewere the two countries.
So but yeah, anyway, I grew upwith like a mission, kind of a
mission mentality in the home ofyou know, like, whether it's
(04:20):
local or global, there's amission somewhere that God has
you on.
So with that backdrop, when Iwas nine in the vbs it's the
summer, like it just didn'tresonate a personal relationship
with jesus, until this leaderkind of um pressed and like
asked like hey, do you guys havea relationship with jesus?
(04:40):
Like what do you think aboutjesus?
What do you?
You've learned all this stuffabout god, like creation and
redemption and all this stuff,um, and then he kind of really
emphasized the big thing for mewas that, like your parents have
relationship with Jesus, butyou don't yet and you get to,
and that's something that youneed and you get to have God's
grace.
And that was kind of the kickerfor me of like, oh, like
(05:03):
everyone, like you're not justborn into it, you know, you're
not born into a relationshipwith Jesus.
You get to have one and start arelationship, kind of like a
marriage or anything.
It's just not there.
You have to like go meet theperson and learn who they are
and stuff.
So, yeah, got saved at nine andthen, yeah, ever since then
have been a Christian, kind ofjust grew up a church kid and
(05:25):
now I faithfully serve at areunion church as an associate
pastor, teaching when the otherguys don't want to.
So that's kind of like the, themini version of my testimony,
but yeah, I mean, I mean that'skind of the high level for me or
my testimony.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
OK, thank you.
Yeah, so we you know we're heretalking about the grace of god
and the new covenant and livingby faith.
So tell me, in your life, whathas been the impact of grace and
maybe what was the developmentof your understanding of grace
(06:04):
over time and maybe differentseasons or eras of your life?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, I think I kind of take the way that NT Wright
kind of thinks about faith,where there's kind of like
phases of being a Christianwhere you kind of not circular
but you kind of go back to thesame things over and over in
your faith, where you know youthink you figured out grace at
one phase and then the nextphase you're like, oh, this is
(06:30):
really what grace is, and thenthis is really what grace is.
So, yeah, for me, I think thefirst time I understood the
encounter with God's grace is mymom's parenting, you know,
growing up with autism and herhaving to learn how to be
graceful with me, and then sheasking for God's grace to be in.
How do you raise someone withautism?
(06:53):
And also there's other, there'sfour other kids in the family.
How does she do all that as astay at home mom?
And I learned a lot of this asI got older too, but just how
difficult it was to raisesomeone who's on the spectrum,
who's autistic, who is not likethe other kids, but you don't
know why either, and it's thenineties and there's not a lot
of resources, um, and then Ithink, as I got older, um, I
(07:16):
think like, say, high schooltime.
Uh, my brother and I my olderbrother and I had a lot of
friction where we stoppedtalking to each other.
We hated each other.
There's a lot of distance thereand it took a long time to heal
, you know, a brokenrelationship in the home.
And I think it was right, whenhe was about to leave for
college, that we kind ofreconciled and got to encounter
(07:37):
God's grace again.
And then, I think recently Ilearned grace.
I feel like every day now in amuch deeper way.
Now that I'm married in ministryit's kind of hard, like God
makes it very obvious how muchgrace he gives in so many ways,
you know, especially now that mywife's pregnant, she has her
(07:58):
daughter that's going to be bornin October, in October, like,
just the amount of time of timesI asked for grace in the last
six months has probably beenmore than any other time in my
life.
You know just that.
You know, with all thecomplications and the scares and
it just yeah, I think, as theseasons go on, every time I ask
(08:21):
for grace it's a more deeper,more understanding of no God.
I need all of your grace, notlike just this area, like every
corner and inch and cinch of mylife.
I need you in everything,whereas I think when I was
younger in faith it was more ofwell.
I need you in this thing becauseI have an addiction, or I need
(08:41):
this grace in school or work orthis relationship.
It was never.
You know all of God's grace allthe time, which your book
brilliantly points out that youknow it's an all or nothing
thing with God.
So, yeah, I think as theseasons go on, my understanding
of grace just gets deeper anddeeper grace just gets deeper
(09:09):
and deeper, man, hearing youtalk about um having autism.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
You know because I have a son who has autism, uh,
john, and he's uh 21 now andhe's great, he is awesome, he's
such a sweetheart, uh, but itwasn't always easy.
In fact, it was one of thegreatest trials in in our lives
my wife and I.
It was, you know, raising achild with disability.
(09:32):
You having a disability in thatway perspective that we haven't
even talked about on thispodcast.
Really Like what does that makeyou think?
When I just kind of bring upthat topic, because you
(09:56):
mentioned it a little bit, butcould you dive in even deeper
into that Because I think youmight have some insight that
would be really really helpfulfor anybody following Jesus.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
So go deeper on that, for me, really helpful for
anybody following Jesus.
So go to your own that.
So one of my favorite passagesin the Bible is I wish I knew
where it was, but it's in theGospels.
It's in there, and it's whenJesus essentially talks about
the, the man who's blind, andall the disciples like, ah, who
made this guy blind?
Was it his father's sin?
Was it this, was it that?
And then Jesus just abruptly islike no, I made him blind, like
(10:30):
I did.
You know, I chose that.
You know who has made the deafand blind and all that.
It was me, so that God may beglorified.
And it's such a profound versebecause it both makes sense to
me right now, in this moment,and also, doesn't you know,
because there's days where it'slike, well, you know, is this
(10:51):
part of sin?
Is it not?
Is it?
Is it my corrupted nature?
Is it God blessing me withsomething, some insight into the
world to see things differentlyor look at things differently?
See things differently or lookat things differently, like um,
and I think that's one of thoseverses that really helps,
especially with um.
Oh, who is the guy that davidhelped?
(11:12):
Was it michael or michellemephibosheth?
Yeah, that's who it was.
That's who it was, where we seeall these examples of people
who have quote-unquotedisabilities and how God's grace
is just overflowing for thosepeople, just as much as
everybody else.
But I think the best startingpoint is that that passage with
Jesus is his perspective of like, no, like I made you that way
(11:36):
and I love you that way.
Like I'm going to be glorifiedthrough your life and you matter
.
You're not a mistake.
So I think that's the startingpoint when you talk about
disability and grace and who Godis his character.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Paul said you know that he had this thorn in the
side, some sort of weakness,some sort of struggle.
We don't know exactly what itwas.
Maybe he was blind or whatever.
Um and uh, he said he pleadedwith god three times that it
would be taken away yeah and Ibet, I bet those prayers were
(12:14):
epic.
Yeah, I bet, I bet they were,like you know, for the glory of
your kingdom, this healing, youknow, for the Thunderous.
Yeah, I mean just yeah.
I mean he had every probablyargument, you know, and yet the
Lord just told him no, yeah.
(12:35):
And then on the third time, hegave him a simple response.
And it's just so profound andthe Lord is so glorious when he
says my strength is made perfectin weakness.
My grace is sufficient for you.
We think of our weakness as aliability.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Especially to God.
I think of my sin as aliability to God.
I think of all my weakness as aliability to God.
I think of all my weakness as aliability to God.
He looks at us as an asset.
It's our humanity.
That is the vehicle that hislife is delivered to this world.
(13:20):
It's the Amazon truck that thepackage of his grace has
delivered his word, our lives.
And even so, you know, he madeus human and then he put us in
broken bodies sometimes, or havebroken parts to our physique or
or psyche, or all thisbrokenness, and we're like, yeah
(13:40):
, what like, how, what Like, howcan this be for your glory, god
?
Yeah, but we don't understand atthe first glance that the
weaker we are, the more he'sglorified when we represent his
son and deliver his son to thepeople around us by faith right,
(14:04):
because it all has to do withfaith Can we trust not only his
plan and his purpose but that hewill live through us?
Because the Bible still saysthat every person is to present
their members to God, no matterhow wrinklyly weird and weak our
(14:25):
members are.
We're to present them to thelord as being alive from the
dead, to do righteousness to, tolet his, to let jesus live
through us in that.
So sorry, I took a few momentsto like sneak a preach in there,
but no, no, no, I mean isn'thalf of being a pastor is
seeking, seeking to preach, likein the middle of lunch or
(14:47):
podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
So, um, or an argument, um, I'll just leave it
at that.
Um, but no, like I always thinkof, uh, romans, chapter 9,
about vessels of honor anddishonor.
Like, at the end of the day,we're all vessels and some
vessels are chipped and some arepainted well and beautiful and
(15:08):
adorned um, but every vessel canbe a vessel of honor and
dishonor and it's not up to uswhat type of vessel we are.
God decides ultimately.
Um, and I know that chapter canoften lead to a lot of very
deep theological um underningsof like, well, how does God do
that and why?
And it's like, well, I don't, Idon't.
(15:29):
I think the main thing is thatwe're vessels and then you know
God has a plan and there's apurpose behind it and you're not
God, so you don't necessarilyneed to know why.
Sometimes you know, like Paul,we don't ever have an answer to
why Paul got the thorn to side.
Like we never got an answer toa lot of people that suffer in
the Bible, like Joe, joe neverfound out why he went through
(15:50):
what he went through.
Yeah, habakkuk.
When Habakkuk, we just wentthrough a series at our church
and and, frustratingly, you readthe whole book and there's
never a moment where God's likeall right, here's why I did what
I did.
You know, sending this, Ibelieve, is the Chaldeans to you
know, basically crush you andbattle and enslave your people
(16:12):
and all this stuff.
And Habakkuk was like, why he'slike?
And then God just completelyanswered differently and did not
give him the answer he wasexpecting.
So it's like over and over.
There's this pattern of like.
No, no, just trust me.
Like like God.
God has this.
Like you don't need, you don'tneed to know.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, and John the Baptist.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
John the Baptist Right, the red herring of the
Bible, yeah, yeah, so he's likeJesus.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
what is going on here ?
Like I'm your best friend, I'myour cousin, why don't you tell
me what's going on right?
And uh, he never gets an answerlike no.
And there's this book by um.
Um, oh, it's drawing a blankright now, but it's called the
prisoner in the third cell, umI've read that it's a great book
(17:02):
.
Yeah, and it deals with thatvery question of the fact that
we don't get to understand why,maybe on this side of heaven,
but there will be a day when wewalk hand in hand with Jesus and
we will get all the whysanswered.
It comes through relationship,right, but he knows that what we
need more than the answer whyis answered?
(17:22):
Uh, it'll it.
It comes through relationship,right, but he knows that what we
need more than the answer whyis him?
Yeah, he knows that, and hegives himself, without reserve,
100 of the time to us, andthat's the one thing that we can
depend on as we're, as we'regoing through these trials is is
that he gives himselfcompletely without reservation
(17:44):
to us, and not just walking nextto us but to live through us,
the intimacy and therelationship of a heavenly
father, of a bridegroom.
The Holy Spirit is all of thatto us, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Even Joseph has one of the best responses to this in
Genesis 50, 20, where it's whatyou, my brothers, intended for
evil, god made for good.
Like.
There are ways and things thatGod is doing that are beyond our
understanding, and I even readin one book, just one of those
books on God's sovereignty oflike.
Have we ever considered that ifwe did know everything on God's
(18:24):
mind that it would be too muchto handle?
Like that it would be too muchto like we'd be frozen,
essentially, like stuck in ourstep of like?
Oh, that's what's going on.
Like that's why this ishappening.
Oh, I don't.
I don't want to do anything now,like I'm, I'm overwhelmed, you
know and I, it's kind of likewhen, when you're a kid and you
have to trust your parents, or,as a parent, your kid has to
(18:45):
trust you of like, hey, if youknew everything on my mind of
the bills are due today and Ihave a thing happening at work
and my boss is angry at me andthere's tension in the marriage
and this other sibling told methis thing and this other
sibling ran into the street andI just saved their life and now
I'm like panicking, like like somany things are going on you
don't even know.
You know, like you just got totrust me, like it's like the
(19:08):
only trust me, bro, that mattersin life is when Jesus tells us
like no, just trust me, all ofmy grace, all the time.
You're good, you're safe,you're in the canopy of my wings
and you don't need to knoweverything, which is weird
because in our Western Americansociety we're very knowledge
based.
You know, we don't go torestaurants until we check Yelp.
(19:29):
Or we don't go do things untilwe know absolutely with 1000
percent certainty this is thebest thing ever.
Or, if you're me, like youdon't watch a movie unless
you've read every review likeit's just we need to know, we
just need to know these things,and god's like you know.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Just trust me yeah, um, because it seems like it's a
risk.
Yeah, why would I take anunnecessary risk if I can
prepare myself with moreinformation?
Or you, you know?
So where's that line of likeliving by faith versus doing due
(20:07):
diligence to try to see scopeout what's ahead?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, I like the way that John Lennox kind of defines
faith is that faith is not anabsence, it's not the absence of
evidence, it's theunderstanding of it.
Of that you know, god has beenevident in my life over and over
again of delivering, of beingthere.
You know all the promises ofGod, like the advice that I give
(20:34):
a lot of people, because we'vehad a lot of.
We have one funeral coming upfor our church and then someone
else who might be having someonepass away their daughter and
she's like well, what do I do?
And you know it's hard to justtell someone that we have to
keep trusting God, even in thesetimes of deep, deep darkness,
that God's grace is here somehow, even if I can't tell you what
(20:56):
that is, because it's not my jobto tell you.
I don't know what's going on.
You know, um, but we do knowthat you know, like this, this
church member that we have,whose daughter has cerebral
palsy and she's 42.
So she's well beyond thelifespan that was expected of
her.
Um, I believe the averageperson with cerebral palsy lives
(21:19):
maybe to the age of 10, 15, 20,and she's double that you know.
So there's a promise there of,like you know God told this
member in our church that yourdaughter is going to have a long
full life and she has.
She's lived longer than almostanybody else with that sort of
again disability, where God'swork and grace has been known,
(21:41):
where people have seen her lifeand like, wow, like this is
amazing.
This is an amazing testimony.
It's like, yeah, well, it'sbecause God, because the doctors
can't explain it.
No one can explain it, you know.
So I think, yeah, I think Idon't know maybe you can shed
light on this but I think ourunderstanding of grace is really
(22:02):
revealed and our trust isreally revealed.
And the tough times, not theeasy ones, because it's like oh
do I really trust God witheverything and every aspect, and
so I think that's where theevidence is revealed is.
You know, is my trust evident?
It's evident when it's tested.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, so in 2 Corinthians you're absolutely
right.
In 2 Corinthians, chapter 1,paul sheds some light on that.
He says for we do not want youto be ignorant brethren of our
trouble which came to us in Asia.
So apparently somethinghappened to him in Asia.
You know, he doesn't ever tellus what it is at all.
(22:48):
And I think that's because hedoesn't want us to get hung up
on that detail, because he wantsus to apply this to our lives,
because look what he says thatwe were burdened beyond measure.
So something was a burden onthem and it was beyond measure,
which means you couldn't measureit.
If you tried to stretch out ameasuring tape, it would come to
(23:12):
the end and the trouble was waybigger than that.
There's a bigger problem andyou could even fathom than you
could even imagine.
And then he says burden beyondmeasure, above strength, that
means whatever this trial was,no matter how hard they tried,
they could never overcome it.
And that's again these trials.
(23:35):
And Paul wants us to think ofour own lives and we can
identify with this and I canidentify a trial that can't be
measured.
And I can identify a trial thatis, no matter how hard I tried,
I couldn't overcome it, so thatwe despaired even of life.
I mean he literally said theywould rather have died than go
through this trial, and so manyof us can identify with that.
(23:59):
I mean where death would be asweet release for compared to
the thing that we're goingthrough.
Right, yes, we had the Okay.
Now he's starting to bring somespiritual knowledge to it.
He says, yes, we had thesentence of death in ourselves.
So there's the purpose.
There's something that neededto die, and that's the purpose
(24:22):
of this trial so that, so thatwe should not trust in ourselves
, but in God, who raises thedead.
Yeah, what an amazing andbeautiful, perfect justification
and and purpose for trials andthe worst trials.
(24:45):
There's something in me thatneeds to die.
What is that?
It's my self-trust.
It's my thinking that I canlive the Christian life, my
thinking that there's somethingI can do or need to do to get
myself out of this trial or toobtain some sort of victory in
this trial.
God's already won the victory.
How do I get it?
I die.
(25:05):
I have to understand that I'vedied with him on the cross and
that identity piece is so hugebecause, along with dying with
him on the cross, I can alsobelieve that I have been raised
with him.
And that's where he says thatwe should not trust in ourselves
, but in god, who raises thedead.
Who is me?
Yeah, I am he, I am the one,yeah, most of the dead.
(25:28):
And it says who delivered usfrom so great a death and does
deliver us and we trust willstill deliver us.
So it doesn't matter what timeframe of your life the past, the
present or the future, thatthis you know.
Trial is happening, but it's umthe resurrection.
Life of grace is efficient,effective and powerful in all
(25:51):
those things.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
So anyway that, yes, paul does give us the perfect
teaching on what um trials areable to accomplish in our lives.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, one.
That's what I've starteddubbing the surrendered life.
There's the enslaved life andthe surrendered life.
And the enslaved life is youknow, I get to live however I
want, do whatever I want, I'm myown God.
Even if I don't believe in God,I am my own God.
You know that's to live howeverI want, do whatever I want.
I'm my own God.
Even if I don't believe in God,I am my own God.
You know, that's just howpeople operate.
(26:25):
And then the surrendered lifeis a paradox, because to find
victory from sin and death andshame and all of that, you have
to give up like like, completelygive up, like I.
I Can't do any of this and Ineed someone else who's greater
and stronger and loving All theOmnis, omni-benevolent,
(26:47):
omni-potent, Just somebody,beyond all these struggles that
I have to swoop in and save theday.
I need Superman, because I'mtied to the tracks, there's
goons around and I can't doanything, helpless.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I haven't heard the word goons in a long time.
I know right.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I just watched a movie trailer.
I think that's why.
But I think what's crazy islike when we deny God's grace.
It's like someone who's tied tothe tracks.
He's like no, I'm good Superman, I got this, I'm my own God.
You know, I'm strong enough,I'm great enough, I'm good
enough.
You know, I've been in asituation like this before and
(27:27):
God's basically standing therelike Superman, like you.
Sure, there's a train comingand there's bad guys and you
can't do this.
You literally can't.
You need me, you need a momentof grace all the time.
And the surrendered life is theacknowledgement of there's
something missing that only Godcan fill, and it's his grace and
it's his power and it's his umresurrection ability to save us
(27:49):
that we can't, you know Um.
So that paradox is reallypowerful.
That true victory in God is umrealizing I'm a victim to sin
and then I'm damaged and I needgod in every aspect of my life,
every way.
I need to just fully surrenderand embrace the process of
(28:10):
radical transformation andcharacter formation.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, so it's beautiful um what happens when
you hold on to idols in yourheart.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Then you don't fully surrender I don't think you're
fully connected to god when youfully, when you're not fully,
just have god in mind, um, solike.
I think idols come in allshapes and forms.
There's the easy ones, likethere's the idol of um sexual
(28:51):
gratification, of pornography or, um, you know sleeping around.
There's the easy idols of work,of I need to look the best and
be the best so that I havemeaning and purpose in my life.
People need to know that I'mgreat, people need to know my
name.
And then there's the smalleridols, where I think of small
(29:16):
idols.
Right now we're expecting adaughter, and just the
conversations you have around anewborn of like oh, what size
are they right now?
Are they in this percentile orthat percentile?
And I've never looked at thepercentile because I don't care,
you know, I'm just glad that Ihave a daughter on the way.
Like it doesn't matter how theyshow up.
You know they could show upwith four legs and I'd still
(29:37):
love them.
Like it's my daughter.
You know, it doesn't matter.
Like it it's my daughter, itdoesn't matter it literally
doesn't matter, but everyquestion is like oh, where are
they at?
How are they doing?
Always this comparison andcomparison is the killer of joy.
True joy is only found in Jesusand comparison is where sin
comes in.
Of like, oh, but are you great?
(29:59):
Jesus, stand on this mountainand look above all these lands
Fall off and the angels willcatch you.
You know all these temptationsthat the Satan gives of
greatness and glory and gold,and it's useless and worthless
when we really think about it.
But that's the hard partbecause we're sinners also in
the sanctification story Is thatthose things look really
(30:24):
appealing in the moment, andeven for people who have been
walking with Jesus for a verylong time, because they usually
tempt us when we're the mostsusceptible and the most
troubled.
You know, like, I think, of allthe people that we consult and
comfort in church, and everytime they talk about a struggle
(30:46):
happening in their marriage orwork or something, it usually
started right after a period ofintense stress and testing or
trouble, or it sneaks its way invery slowly in a very easy time
in life yeah um yeah, all timeswhen you are tempted to take
(31:11):
you know, when you make choicesto not be, uh, vigilant yeah
Speaker 1 (31:18):
your connection with jesus like, oh, I don't need to
pray, I don't need to seek him.
You know and I'm not sayingprayer is like this magic thing,
but it's indicative of arelationship with him that's
built on humility and faith isthat we're praying and we're
seeking him in the word, justdelighting in his presence and
(31:39):
delighting in his face, right.
So you know, our identity isfound there, in our personal
connection with him.
So, as we are growing in thatidentity and becoming firm in
that identity and standingstrong in that identity, that's
what Jesus was able to respondwith every time the devil
(32:02):
tempted him.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, that identity.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
That's what jesus was able to respond with every time
the devil tempted him.
Yeah, you know the devil.
Right before that, god said youare my beloved son.
Right then the devil comesalong and says if you're the son
you know, the devilconveniently leaves out that,
the love relationship part andhe wanted, uh, jesus, to think
(32:24):
of himself in terms of myperformance, what I do, not, who
I am, and that's what the devilis always trying to get us to
do.
So it's our identity and whatJesus has already said is true
about us that we discoverthrough intimate relationship
with him that that's what youknow, gives us the strength to
(32:49):
cast out those idols and thenhelps us to present our members
as instruments for his life andrighteousness to live through.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, and I think the scary thing that my dad always
says too is that most people whoare deceived don't even know
that they're deceived.
And having idols is a granddeception, and we always joke
like, sometimes like, oh, Ican't believe so and so famous
person was in a cult or in thiscrazy group group, and it's like
(33:19):
, well, yeah, they didn't either.
At first.
You know, um, you didn'trealize you're going to get
hooked on um whatever substanceor addiction to your phone or
sex or whatever it is.
You didn't know that at thebeginning.
It was just a little compromise, it was a window of opportunity
, you know.
You thought you could get awayand you didn't.
(33:41):
You got hooked, you know, um.
So deception is scary because Ithink a lot of times we don't
even know that we're deceived.
And my wife and I talk aboutthat a lot of like what are,
what are the things that you seein me that I don't?
And we'll have thatconversation sometimes of like,
well, lately you've had justlike a really um short temper,
you know, and it's like, oh well, if I read about moses, I know
(34:02):
what really short temper, youknow, and it's like, oh well, if
I read about Moses, I know whata short temper can lead to.
You know, or or?
Lately you've been verycowardly around committing to
things.
Oh well, if we look at KingSaul, we know what cowardice
leads to.
It leads to being anointed byGod to be the leader of the
Jewish people and then beingde-anointed.
(34:22):
You know what like how does thathappen, you know, because of
this pattern of slowly fallingmore and more into the deception
of you know, it's all on me,which our church.
The reason I bring that up iswe're going through the life of
King David and it's amazing justto see the humility and faith
(34:43):
that David had in God and allthose trials and situations.
For the most part, he failed,of course, but then, of course,
the author of 1 Samuel is doingthis parallel of like oh, here's
the two, the only two peoplewho are anointed in this book,
saul and David.
And Saul starts out cowardlyand stays more cowardly.
(35:05):
You know, when he's introducedas King, he's hiding behind
luggage Um.
When he's called out to fightGoliath, he hides in a tent
instead of the front lines, Um,whereas David is out in the open
and just trusting God.
He's like this guy, this guy'sgonna, you know, scare you, like
that's it.
You know I've taken lions andbears and God guy's gonna, you
know, scare you, like that's it.
You know I've taken lions andbears and God delivered me then
(35:26):
he will deliver me now, like whywould I be?
scared, um, so I don't know.
I I wonder if there's ascripture that maybe touches on
how the, how humility and faithin God can um be empowering in a
(35:46):
way?
Because David had this, like nowthat we're going through it,
this empowered cadence in hisearly years of just no, god's
got this.
I don't need to like this.
I don't want to say pride, butmaybe like boasting in the Lord
and the way that he carriedhimself in his young years.
That is really unique in theBible, at least that we've
(36:09):
discovered when going throughthe series of like oh no, he
just had absolute surrender, hewas just fully trusting God,
this little 16 year old, youknow, trusting God more than a
grown man that didn't want to gointo battle or all these other
stories that are the first halfof or the latter half of, first
samuel, um, but yeah, it'sinteresting how humiliating
(36:31):
faith is, actually kind of likea no, I'm proud to be god's
child, I'm proud to be full ofhis grace, I'm proud to like be
empowered by him.
The holy spirit, um, yeah, butyou would know more than I maybe
.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Well, it says in second corinthians, chapter
three, that, uh, we use great.
Therefore, we use greatboldness of speech.
Yeah, you know where we'reproclaiming our total, utter
dependency on jesus, and we'rewe proudly proclaim that it's
never me, it's always him.
And then it's the power workingin him, yeah, that raised him
(37:06):
from the dead, yeah, that isworking through us, alive in us.
I think that one's in galatiansor ephesians, uh, and so as, as
we present our members to him,reckon the things to be true
that god has revealed to us, uh,his life and his power is the
thing you know.
And that's a life of humilityand faith.
(37:26):
It's a relational life, youknow, by faith, we reckon the
things to be true that he'srevealed to us through His
Spirit, and then, with humility,we present our lives to Him and
say here I'm an open book.
I fill my heart, fill my mind,my mind is yours, my eyes are
yours, my hand's yours,everything belongs to you.
So, live through me, and hedoes.
(37:48):
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, you actually just reminded me of one of my
favorite scriptures, micah,chapter seven, verse eight,
where Micah is talking to God.
It's like this wrap up betweenthe whole book and highly
recommend a book.
It's like top five book for mein the Bible.
And it just ends with this,like just hinting and allusions
to the grace that's to come.
And verse eight talks about howMicah says though I fall, I
(38:16):
will rise.
The Lord will be a light for me,kind of alluding to like, no
matter what happens in theseason of israel and what's
going on, um, though I dwell indarkness, the lord will light
for me.
That, um, in the end it's allgoing to work out, whether now
or later or even into eternity.
That, um, even micah had thatconfidence, that boldness of.
(38:41):
Even in the old covenant he hada new covenant mentality, which
is interesting, um, yeah, yeah,yeah.
I always love when, with newcovenant eyes, we can look at
the old testament and see godsprinkling like, oh, something,
something crazy is about to godown, you have no idea.
(39:01):
And just the way he alludes tothe grace that's to come for all
people.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, it truly is all about Jesus and it points to
him, whether it's lookingforward or looking back, yeah,
and I think that's great.
Well, so let's let's wrap it uphere yeah, what do you think
the future holds for you?
What are you called to do?
What is the lord doing in yourlife?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
yeah, I think um, right now it's um.
I'm thinking a lot aboutfatherhood because I'm being
becoming a father for the firsttime, so what that looks like.
And I've already started theapology tour to my own dad of
like, um, you know just, I'msorry, I did this.
I'm sorry I did that you knowhe's like, that's okay.
(39:50):
Um, you have a few more storiesbefore you catch up to the other
siblings with kids, causeapparently they apologize all
the time.
Um, now that they're raisingkids.
So I think fatherhood is one.
Um, I think there's definitelybeen a turn in my maturity.
I've noticed just personallywith Jesus, because we actually
had one story and I'll keep itbrief, but around week 15, where
(40:14):
we had a big trial during thepregnancy where we thought my
wife Glory had a miscarriage andshe had all the signs of
miscarriage.
It was Sunday morning.
I was meant to preach thatmorning and an hour before
church, you know, she wakes up.
We see the signs of miscarriage, if you know what they are
Don't want to be graphic on thecall and we're like we got to go
(40:35):
to the hospital, we go to theemergency room and from eight to
three we're there the whole dayand I can't stop crying.
But going back to thatidolization, I realized I had an
idol, that I loved my daughtermore than God and I kind of did
battle with God in prayer oflike am I still good if she goes
(40:56):
to heaven, if you don't see heragain?
Am I still good if you get toraise her and you and you get to
be a dad here on earth insteadof seeing her later on.
You know, and that was like abig, big learning curve of like,
yes, god, you are still goodWhether or not I get to have my
daughter on earth or in eternity.
(41:17):
And even now, with all thefunerals that are happening,
it's like God is still good,even in this dark, dark time for
a lot of our members.
So, yeah, so I think right nowit's a refining in the
sanctification story.
For me, it's a refining processthat's going on.
Awesome, it's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well, thank you, I think you've been very well
spoken today and you can tellthat God has been developing you
into the image of Christ, andso it's it's cool.
It's been cool to connect withyou again today.
Yeah, we got to get.
We got to get Andrew on hereand and get him get his story
too.
So we'll I'm going to wrap usup with a moment of prayer and
(41:59):
then we'll we'll be done.
Yeah.
So, our heavenly father, we justinvite you into our lives and
everyone who's listening we justinvite you into our lives.
Show us your good, good grace.
You are a tremendous father.
You never fail, you have aheart of love for us and you
(42:20):
certainly are willing to walkwith us through any trial, and
you have purposes that are sodeep that we may not even be
able to understand, but we canknow the things that are very
true, which is that you are goodand you are loving and you love
us.
So we stand on those things.
I pray for Chris.
(42:41):
I pray that you give him thepower of your spirit as he
preaches, as he serves, as heworks and as he is a father and
a husband.
In Jesus' name, I pray, Amen.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
All right, well, thanks, chris.
We'll wrap it up here.
Talk to you next time.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, appreciate it, man.
Thank you so much, bye.
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