May 31, 2024 • 54 mins
What if one moment of despair could transform your entire life? On this episode of the Simple Grace Podcast, we sit down with Vaibhav "Sunny" Kapoor and journey through his remarkable transition from a Hindu upbringing in India to finding a profound Christian faith. Through godly connections, including a friendship blossomed through our mutual pastor in Denver, we uncover the powerful impact of faith in overcoming life's deepest challenges. Sunny opens up about his family's struggles and his childhood fears, providing a poignant backdrop for his extraordinary spiritual transformation.
I recount a deeply personal and emotional story from my first year of college, where hopelessness led me to the brink of contemplating ending my life. A childhood memory of a compassionate Christian prayer prompted a desperate plea to Jesus, which resulted in a miraculous reunion with a long-lost friend who offered hope and an invitation to church. This moment marked the beginning of a transformative journey, culminating in a life-changing encounter with Jesus on October 21, 2000. My belief in Jesus was unexpectedly affirmed, leading to an emotional release and an inexplicable joy that reaffirmed my newfound faith.
Sunny’s divine calling then takes center stage as he details his move back to India and his subsequent mission in the United States. Inspired by a vivid dream about America and sustained by God's grace, his family navigated emotional challenges and obtained visas in miraculous ways. We discuss his vision for cross-cultural church planting, fostering community-based, multicultural churches, and the enriching experiences from navigating cultural contrasts. Join us for an inspiring episode filled with stories of hope, transformation, and the relentless power of faith.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, good afternoon everybody.
We are back.
I know it's been a long, longtime.
We were on a quite a hiatus.
We had a lot of stuff going onin the ministry, getting a lot
of stuff started.
Part of that has to do withsome of the guests that, with
the guests that we have today.
I'm very, very excited.
We're going to jump right intoit.
So I'm going to bring in here,let's's bring in.
(00:23):
So this is a vibe of sunny.
He goes by also here in america, kapoor, um, so say hello to
everyone hello everyone, today'sconversation yeah yes, yes.
So, as you guys know, this isthe simple grace podcast, where
we talk about the new covenantof grace and how it's made an
(00:45):
impact in our lives.
So I am honored to have Sonnywith us today because of the
impact that I've seen grace haveon his life, just as I have in
all the guests that we've had onthe podcast so far.
So, sonny, let's just start alittle bit by talking about how
(01:06):
we got connected.
So I'll let you tell the storyin your words.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, it's been a phenomenal way.
The Lord connected us and I'mso honored to know you Well.
As you know, the last year theLord laid on our hearts to move
to the United States for Hisministry, for His work, and we
(01:33):
were led to come to Colorado,especially Denver, and when the
Lord spoke to us we pretty muchknew nobody here, like
absolutely no one.
That was a step of faith and sowe came here last year
September and we were prayingfor some godly connections and
some friendships in the city andthat's where the Lord connected
(02:00):
me to a pastor locally and hemet you and when he he met you,
he just felt that you and I needto connect and that's where our
connection happened and I thinkit's been two, three months.
Uh, man, our friendship is suchan honoring thing to me and I'm
(02:23):
so blessed to know you and yourministry and what you've been
doing.
Yeah you have you've already hada great impact on my life, so I
thank the Lord for this.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So describe that first coffee shop meeting that
we had, because I have myperspective of you.
Know, I just started kind ofsharing my story, but what was
it like for you?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It came as a shock because I was not expecting what
happened in that meeting.
I just thought I'll meet a newpastor or a man of God, just you
know to know and have aconnection.
But then, when you startedtalking about how the Lord has
been leading your life and butthen, when you started talking
(03:12):
about how the Lord has beenleading your life and you know
your ministry in the past andhow this simple grace vision
came to you in 2021.
And we started talking aboutthe content of the book though
the book was still closed and itwas just lying on the table, it
kind of started talking to mealready.
It kind of started talking tome already and I felt so
connected to this um vision andyou know what this book had to
say.
Yeah, so it was.
It was.
It came at the right time and,uh, I needed that word and I
(03:37):
needed that understanding in mylife.
Uh, you know, because I'm in anew season and I know the Lord
wanted to do new things in mylife and, yeah, you're coming
into my life and the book andthe revelation that you have is
definitely God ordained.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, and we started kind of hanging out.
We went out to dinner thatnight with your family and my
family and we just startedhanging out and then we started
getting into the word togetherUm, and we still do that, um and
uh, just still growing.
Uh, we'll get into more of kindof how that's grown and what
that's uh blossomed into later,but uh, needless to say, it's,
(04:21):
it's been amazing and there'salready dozens, if not hundreds,
of people that have beenimpacted just from that one
meeting around the world.
So I am humbled by God'swonderful grace.
But we got to find out whoVaibhav is.
I am so excited to share thisstory with everybody.
(04:44):
Of course I've heard it, butwe'll pretend like I haven't
heard it yet.
So tell us about your story.
What is this that we're talkingabout?
Why should we know you and whatshould we know about God's work
and power displayed in yourlife?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah Well, if anyone wants to know me, I can only say
that my desire would be if youknow me, you would know the Lord
through me and know the Lord ina deeper way.
And if my story can help, mytestimony can help and my
(05:27):
journey can help people inknowing the Lord better, that
would be my greatest joy.
So if I have to share mytestimony and go back a little
bit in time, not a little bitbut a lot back.
I would go back to the time whenI was just seven years old and
(05:51):
one night I was sleeping in myroom and I heard a loud noise
and when I woke up in the middleof the night I went out.
I saw that my parents werehaving a fight, and it was very
horrifying and very scary inthat age.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Now, did you grow up in a Christian family?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
No, no, I'm born in a Hindu family.
Yeah, thank you for asking.
That clarifies more.
And in India, right In India,in New Delhi, there's a small
town near New Delhi calledGhaziabad.
It was known for crime andnothing else, yeah, and so, yeah
(06:39):
, we were a Hindu family.
And in that age, that particularnight, when I came out of the
room, I saw my parents fightingand it just scared me to death.
And in that young age I didn'tknow what exactly is going on,
but I knew something is wrongand it was very saddening, it
(07:02):
was very heartbreaking and itwas very saddening, it was very
heartbreaking.
It wasn't a very pleasant view.
So that night, that very uniquefear gripped my heart, and from
that night onwards I realizedalmost every day that things are
not going well.
And somehow I felt that theyare good people, my parents are
(07:28):
so nice.
Yet things were out of controland they couldn't handle what
they were going through, and sothat became our life in a way
that would be everyday thing,every week thing, and back then
my father was doing pretty wellfinancially.
(07:51):
I still remember back then whenCoke and Pepsi came to India
and so a new plant came up nearour house for Pepsi and my
father was working for Pepsi andI think he was a store manager.
He had a very good position, hewas earning pretty well and
1990, in India hardly anybodyhad like cars or anything.
(08:15):
Most of the people were on likemotorbikes or scooters, you
know, like two wheelers.
But my father had two cars andhe was doing pretty well but
slowly, gradually, he startedlosing everything.
Um, his company was locked downand he lost the job, the car
(08:37):
was sold and so we had toliterally move back to our
grandparents house and and itwas just a single room on the
roof and it wasn't fancy, andand then, yeah, there were
always those fictions in thehouse.
And what happened?
(08:58):
Um, when, probably when I was 10or 11, I I realized that my
mother is now hit with majordepression and she thought she's
a very qualified woman in Indiato have a master's degree in
two subjects.
Like she did master's degreetwice in her life.
(09:21):
Very educated, she was aprincipal in the school.
She lost the job, herconfidence was hit and her hand
was broken again and again.
Her left hand has been brokenfour times in different
occasions pretty much the samebone and she had four surgeries
(09:43):
in her one hand, so that kind ofbondage that just took over our
family.
And so she went into majordepression and she used to just
sleep, you know, sometimes fortwo days at a stretch, and she
would just get up, eat something, have the medicine again and
sleep back again.
(10:04):
And she would just cry up, eatsomething, have the medicine
again and sleep back again.
And she would just cry and justbe very sorrowful and very
depressed.
And we were very stressed abouther as I was growing up, me and
my sister my sister was fouryears, she is four years younger
to me and, yeah, my father whenhe lost everything.
(10:26):
You know he had alcohol issuesas well and then he got into a
lot of debts.
That humiliated him a lot, man.
(10:50):
He literally came to a place oflike a man who failed in life
and couldn't do much or sustainthe success.
So that hit him hard.
And then they were, they werehaving issues, they were, they
never had oneness and thataffected me and my, my sister,
uh, as children of the house.
You know, sometimes parentsdon't realize but their shouting
and screaming impacts the childin a very deep way.
(11:10):
So that hit my confidence and,yeah, so growing up, my mother
was on the bed for a long, longtime and my father was in debt
and alcohol.
And I remember in our teenage mysister attempted suicide twice
(11:38):
and it was very painful for thefamily, and so I saw her on the
bed a lot of times.
She had suicidal thoughts, shewas depressed, she would just
want to be, you know, in her ownzone.
So I knew she's struggling, mymother is struggling, my father
(11:59):
is struggling.
So that was my teenage, youknow, and probably before that
it started like that, and everytime I would talk to my mother
she would put this pressure onme that I'm in this house
because of you guys.
And that was part of the Indianculture.
(12:19):
You know, women fight and likethey are strong in their
covenants, so they don't give upeasily and most of the times
they stay in a marriage or inthe house for kids.
Um, so he would.
She would just say that youknow, I'm here for my kids and
when they'll grow up, I leave.
(12:39):
And when sunny turns 18, youknow I, I'll just feel that my
responsibility is done and I'lljust, you know, leave.
And she didn't realize that itwas hitting me hard.
It was impacting me in a verynegative way it was killing my
joy to grow up.
I didn't want to turn 18.
(12:59):
I somehow hated my birthdaysbecause I was haunted with this
statement that she will leavewhen I'll grow up.
And I loved her and I stilllove her, you know, and I just
missed her that we could havegreat time as a family.
But it was very, very like itwas horrible.
(13:20):
It was horrible, and yeah, so Iwould.
I was growing up with this fear.
Then, you know, betrayed byfriends and never valued by the
people in the world, I developeddepression in my teenage and I
(13:42):
didn't mention it to anybody.
I would cry in classrooms, Iwould.
I would cry in classrooms, Iwould cry sitting in parks,
public parks.
I would not want to go home andI didn't feel cared and loved.
And there was always thisstress growing up about money,
(14:05):
you know so, relatives also,when you don't have a lot of
money, you're not valued and allthat stuff.
So we were having all thoseinsecurities in us.
So it was just taking grip overme fear, inferiority, complex,
low confidence and thendepression and that feelings of
sadness and I would just cry.
(14:26):
And then I felt like I have tofight with all this.
But I had no support I.
There was no truth of anyspirituality in me.
So I was searching for answersand in that tenure of my teenage
my way out was anger.
(14:51):
So anytime I wanted to defeatdepression, I used anger.
So I started cutting myselfwith blades and I would give
pain to my body.
I still have some scars on myleft hand.
I used to write like fullstatements, like sentence, you
(15:13):
know, like with grammar, and Iwould just give pain to myself
and I would be angry.
I would break things, I wouldpunch the walls, I would just
hit a normal dog on the street,just kick a street dog.
I would just do crazy things tolet my feelings come out.
(15:37):
And I developed a lot of angerissues and then frustrations
that why my cousins are soblessed and who is going to
provide for me as I grow up andwill I ever be able to go to a
good college or stuff like that.
So I had all these you knowinsecurities in me.
(15:58):
But I also had a question allmy teenage Is there anybody who
can fix this?
Is there a remedy?
Can someone help me and myfamily?
Like is there a power?
Is there a God?
Is there any religion that canhelp me.
(16:20):
And I was born in a Hindu familyso I was also quite inclined
towards religion because I wasdesperate and I wanted God to do
something for me.
So I've been to mountains tomake sacrifices and I've been to
(16:41):
rivers to you know do therituals.
And I've been to rivers to youknow do the rituals.
There came a time that I evenwent to a couple of mosques far
like, not nearby.
I've traveled like 20 hours ona train, 10 hours on a train,
like went far places in India tothe popular mosque.
You know that something canhappen for me.
(17:08):
So I did it very heartedly andbut every passing year things
were just getting worse and Iwas losing hope in life and so
my mother used to say, when I'llturn 18, she's gonna leave.
And so I remember I did grow upand it was a big fight again
and you know she just left andshe went to my uncle's house
(17:31):
because her parents were notalive and so her brother, elder
brother, is the same.
I was in the.
They lived in the sameneighborhood in India, so she
left and she stayed there and Ididn't know what's going to
happen now and it felt like therelatives are involved and the
(17:54):
stories are going out and it wasjust a mess.
And anytime I looked at myparents I felt they are so good.
You know, they're good people.
They don't want to damageanybody, they are not cheaters
or they're not people who havemade use of anybody.
They are nice people.
They are good people.
But why are families goingthrough this?
(18:17):
So I was very much in pain andthat night I remember I went up
on the roof of we lived on thethird floor and I didn't tell
anybody but I was crying.
I was crying hard and I lookeddown from the roof and I wanted
to jump and end my life.
I just lost all hope and I wastired of that environment.
(18:42):
I was tired to see my sisterhad to start working right after
you know, giving the exams forgrade 12 and like trying our
best that we can pull ourselvesup again in life.
But everything felt verydistorted and it was hopeless
(19:04):
situation for me.
So I was on the roof and I justwanted to die and commit
suicide.
I was already going through alot of pain in my life more than
a decade and a rejection, a lotof rejection from all the sides
in life.
And in that moment, when Iwanted to jump, I was reminded
(19:25):
of this event that took place inmy life when I was in grade two
and now this is college firstyear and I was reminded that I
had a friend and a Christianfamily in the neighborhood and I
was there one evening at theirhouse and we were making some
(19:45):
crafts for school, like craftwork, and so there came a
brother from a ministry calledJesus Calls.
It's a great ministry in Indiaand it was a prayer-based
ministry.
They have reached millions ofpeople in India and all over the
world.
So a brother came from thatministry to pray for that family
(20:08):
and I was there and I stillremember that my friend's mother
looked at that brother and saidas you're praying for us as a
family, why don't you pray forall these kids who are in my
house?
And we were like six, sevenkids, you know, making crafts
and painting.
So, and I still remember hisface, his expressions.
He was so full of compassionand he was from south of India,
(20:33):
he didn't know much Hindi, butyet he was so passionate to pray
for people and I still rememberthat when he prayed for all of
us, I was the only child who wascrying.
Right, I was just crying,sitting there on the floor,
didn't know what's happening tome, but I was crying and I liked
what he was doing and that's it.
(20:55):
After that, there was no contactwith any church.
I never had a Bible, never wentto any church or never heard a
sermon.
And after so many years, I'm inmy first year of college and I
want to end my life and I'mreminded of this event.
And when I'm reminded of this,I said maybe I've missed one God
(21:17):
and I haven't checked with himif he can help me.
And I just, in desperation Istill remember I looked up to
the sky and said Jesus, if youare able and you are alive, save
me and my family.
And that's all I said.
(21:37):
I didn't even say an amen inthe end, because I didn't know
that you have to say an amen inthe end.
I just, with the brokenness ofmy heart, I looked up and said
Jesus, if you are able, if youare really alive, can you do
this?
That's it, that's all I said.
And I was still crying, I wasstill in a mess, no hope for my
(21:58):
life, for my family, for myparents, for my sister, didn't
know what's going to happentomorrow.
And in that moment, as I saidit, I looked, I turned on my
roof and my same friend wasstanding on the roof with me and
we had no connection for sixyears.
(22:21):
In grade seven he changed hisschool.
I was in St Paul's Academy.
I've studied in St Paul'sAcademy.
I've studied in St Paul'sAcademy.
That's also something that justblows my mind, that I would
study in a school with ApostlePaul's name, not knowing
anything about the Bible.
And so he left the school andhe went to Ingram Institute.
(22:43):
That is another school and wehad no contact.
Our friendship was not carryingon in these times.
I had new friends.
But here he is on my roof aftersix years and I was shocked.
And when I asked him, like howcome you're here, he said you
know, I just fell this morning.
I just heard this that I needto just find you and I just need
(23:06):
to meet you.
I have to.
It's like, wow, this isbeautiful.
So I shared within hey, youknow what I'm going through all
this and my family is goingthrough all this.
And I never shared with youbecause we live in the same
neighborhood and in india if youleak things, it just goes to
every house.
You know, people are so muchinvolved with what's happening
(23:27):
in the neighbor's house.
So so we were scared so I nevershared with him.
And when I did share with him,he heard me and was very
compassionate towards me and hesaid get ready next day,
tomorrow, get ready and I'lltake you somewhere, I'll take
you to the church.
I said, man, you know what I'mtired, I've tried everything.
(23:50):
And I said, man, you know whatI'm tired, I've tried everything
and I don't know if I'm readyto go to the church, you know.
But he said, no, you have to.
And he kind of forced me andencouraged me, and so next day I
got ready, he took me to.
It was 21st October, the year2000, tuesday.
(24:10):
And yeah, I went to a churchnear my house and there was no
service going on and thepastor's house was next door.
So we knocked at the door andhis wife opened the door and
said pastor is not at home, butif you guys want to wait, you
can come and wait.
So we came in around 12 o'clockand, yeah, I remember we just
(24:34):
kept waiting the whole day andhe came at around four o'clock.
So I stayed there for fourhours just waiting for the
pastor to come and um and and myfriend was also with me and
when he came he had bags in hishands because he went for
shopping to Delhi and he gotstuff for his kids and he got
(24:56):
busy with the kids and this andthat and the kind of life that
I've lived till.
Then I was so hardened in myself, I was so offended all the time
that I started feeling the samething for that pastor and I
started getting offended.
Why is he not focused on me?
Why is he not talking to me?
(25:16):
You know, and like he's busyand I'm waiting for four hours
and all that.
You know, bad feelings andthoughts were just coming in me
and before that I just wanted togo in those four hours.
I just wanted to leave becauseI was hearing.
These thoughts were so heavy inme that you're wasting your
time.
There is no God.
(25:37):
You are programmed fordestruction.
Your family is a perfectexample of destruction.
These kind of feelings andvoices were in my head.
But I'm glad I sat there forfour hours and when he came I
was offended.
Anyways, he came, he sat infront of me and my friend
introduced me to him and saidhe's my friend, sonny and he
(26:01):
needs prayer.
Can you pray for him?
And all he said was sure, let'spray.
And I was like what?
You're not even asking meanything like, please, I need to
open up, I need to share, Iwant to talk 18 years of things
in me, you know, if not 18, 11years of pain that I'm carrying.
(26:21):
I need to pour it out.
But he didn't ask me anythingand probably the lord stopped
him and he said let's pray.
So, very like half-heartedly, Iclosed my eyes and and just
took my head down and I thoughtto myself you know what I wasted
this day?
No matter, whatever he wants todo, he can do, and I'm out of
(26:42):
this place.
Um, but before he prayed, heopened his eyes again and looked
at me and said I want to askyou a question before I pray for
you.
And I think that questionchanged my life forever.
And he asked me do you believein Jesus?
Now, living a life like that,for so many years I had no faith
(27:08):
on anyone.
Many years I had no faith onanyone.
In fact, I wanted to be so rudewith him.
I just wanted to tell him Idon't believe in jesus.
And I also wanted to tell him.
Sir, I don't even believe inyou.
I'm that pissed off with life.
Do what you want to do, and I'mout of this place.
I think you cannot help me.
(27:29):
I think I'm wasting my time.
So I wanted to be very, veryrude and upfront.
But my very first miraclehappened that day, which I call
a miracle.
Might not be a miracle for somepeople, but for me it was a
miracle indeed.
The miracle was the moment Iwanted to open my mouth and say
(27:49):
no, I don't believe in Jesus.
The moment I opened my mouth, Isaid yes, I do.
And I was like what, no, no, Ididn't want to say this.
And the moment I said yes, Ibelieve in Jesus, something
happened inside of me, likesomething was waiting inside of
me to respond to that questionfor years.
(28:12):
And the moment I said yes, I do, I felt I felt loved.
I felt this jesus is liketaking over me.
I felt closeness to him.
I felt he's in the room.
I could just feel it likethere's something happening and
I bursted in tears and initiallyI felt embarrassed inside that
(28:37):
why am I crying in front of astranger?
But then, a couple of minutesin crying, I realized this is
not me and it's beautiful and Ishould just let it go.
And exactly, I did, exactlywhat I felt.
I just surrendered in thatmoment.
(28:58):
And then I started realizing, mygoodness, this is not normal
crying.
This is not the crying thatI've been doing for the last one
decade.
This is so beautiful because Ifelt joy, I felt light while
crying and I felt that everytear rolling down my cheek
something is melting away, likeit's just coming out of me, and
(29:21):
I call it an encounter withJesus.
And I cried probably for like40, 45 minutes I didn't time it,
but I know it was a long timeand I don't remember a single
word that pastor prayed for.
(29:43):
I couldn't hear him.
I think he also didn't knowwhat's happening inside of me,
between me and Jesus.
And after, when I was donecrying, I just felt I'm the most
joyful person on the face ofthis earth.
I asked myself what are youtalking about?
(30:03):
What problem?
There is no problem in yourlife.
There is nothing wrong in yourlife.
Everything just lookedbeautiful.
Life came back as if there isnothing wrong Like this.
God will fix it, you know.
And it was so beautiful,beautiful experience I had with
(30:24):
Jesus, and no counseling needed,no word of God was given to me,
no scripture was shared with me.
Maybe he was busy, or he didn'tfeel it's the right time, or
maybe I was so overwhelmed Idon't know the reasons, but I
(30:46):
all I know is that I had nothingto tell him.
I couldn't explain what I'mfeeling.
We got up and when we left, Ileft that house and I didn't
tell this to anybody, not evento the pastor, but I was leaving
that house speaking to myselfthat I belong to Jesus.
(31:07):
This God is real.
There was nothing like nocounseling needed to, or no word
of God needed, no sinner'sprayer needed for me to be
convinced.
I knew this experience is real.
I couldn't deny it.
I left that house as a believer, as a child of God, as I was
seeing this inside of me Ibelong to this God Jesus.
(31:29):
He's real.
I was seeing this inside of me.
I belong to this God Jesus.
He's real.
And that was the beginning of aglorious journey.
Came home, you know things werejust the same.
There were so many things thathappened.
We might not have time to coverup everything, but I would just
pursue God every day.
I would just go to church everyday.
I would just ask them to openthe church for me to sit there.
(31:50):
I would try to read the word,try to pray, try to just read
the songbooks.
I would not understand anything, but I would just love it.
I would just love being at thefeet of Jesus.
And that became my life andlong story cut short.
Soon my parents united again andI spoke to them and I said you
(32:13):
know what Jesus loves you?
And I started praying for myfamily.
And they are still together.
24 years they are stilltogether.
And they had their ups anddowns, they had their rough
patches, but the Lord stillblessed them and over the course
of time.
Initially they were very upsetwith me for going to the church
(32:37):
because they thought, if Ibecome a Christian in Indian
community, who's going to marrymy sister?
So they have social bondages intheir minds.
They were so troubled by thefeedback of people.
They were so troubled by thefeedback of people.
People from our neighborhoodused to come and try to convince
my father to complain in policethat they are converting our
(32:58):
son.
So that kind of stuff happened.
My uncles were not happy.
One threatened me that I'mgoing to lock your church up.
And I know police, I knowpoliticians, I'm going to lock
your church up.
And I know police, I knowpoliticians, I'm going to shut
down this church.
I told him you can do that.
We'll come on the road, we'llcome on the street and worship
our God.
You know you can lock thechurch.
(33:23):
I had an uncle from California,my father's friend.
He came to India and asked meoh, you go to church for a girl,
you like a Christian girl,that's why you go to the church.
And I said I don't like anyChristian girl, I go to church
for my Jesus.
So there was persecution,misinterpretations why I go to
(33:45):
church.
So much happened few years.
But I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the persecution, Iloved it and I kept growing in
the Lord came in ministry Wellbefore I talk about the ministry
.
So my mother came out ofdepression and suicidal spirit
left her.
(34:05):
My sister she's a born againbeliever.
My mother is baptized.
My sister is baptized.
My sister she's a born againbeliever.
My mother is baptized.
My sister is baptized.
My sister's husband is baptized.
The entire family gave theirhearts to the Lord over the
period of time and the Lordblessed us.
Our jobs came back, even gaveus a business.
(34:26):
Our debts were paid.
The honor came back in thecommunity, relatives came back,
we got a bigger house, weexpanded as a family, we were
blessed and and and everythingcame to a place where, if, all
things became beautiful.
And I got the answer that I, thequestion that I had in my
(34:49):
teenage who can fix this?
I got the answer Jesus can fixthis.
He brought me out of depression.
He dealt with my anger issues.
He gave me confidence.
He gave me identity from a guywho never wanted to open his
mouth, was very shy, very scaredof public appearances and
didn't want to open my mouth, uh, just became confident.
(35:13):
I started preaching about jesusto everybody my friends, my, my
neighbors, my.
I was just so confident.
He just changed my personalityfrom inside and he did so much
for us, so much, everything, andfixed my story.
And, you know, we were notgoing towards destruction
(35:34):
anymore.
We were progressing towardsblessings in life and spiritual
blessings above all.
And then I was 21.
One day the Lord spoke to meand said hey, what I did for you
.
I want you to go to the wholeworld and tell that I can do the
same for them.
I am the answer.
And if I can listen and hearthe prayer of a Hindu boy
(35:57):
without an amen.
In the end, I can listen tothem, I love them, I can heal
this broken world.
I am the answer and I just saidyes to his call when I was 21.
And I said I'm going to servemy God, came full time, left my
job and just started serving theLord.
I was not even 23 when Iplanted my first church in New
(36:19):
Delhi, near New Delhi, india,and nobody knew me in the city
and God did amazing things.
And 2011, the Lord asked us toplant more churches in India and
we started expanding.
I started raising leaders in2011 and training pastors to
(36:40):
plant more churches in India.
By 2018, we had five or sixchurches in India.
When the Lord spoke to me andmy wife to go to South Africa to
plant a church, we moved toSouth Africa, stayed there for
two years, planted a couple ofchurches there, moved back to
India in 2021.
And three years I lived inIndia and strengthened the
(37:03):
churches there and just helpedthem to grow more.
And so now we have ninechurches in India and two
churches in South Africa.
And last year the Lord broughtus to the United States to carry
on ministry and plant morechurches and be the voice in
this land and just help younglives and help the current
(37:25):
churches to reach out to thecommunities and just be a
healthy community for the peoplein the nation.
So that has been our story.
The Lord has been good and I'mvery thankful to Him.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Awesome, so tell me more about being called to
America.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Tell me more about being called to America.
Yeah, so it's a story in itselfand it just blows my mind every
time I think about it.
So when we moved back to India,I was kind of okay if the Lord
had to settle us in India and Ithought, maybe I've touched two
(38:08):
nations and this is good for myage and I can just settle down
and just be an overseer of thechurches in Indian plant wood
churches.
But I also knew that the Lordhad laid a burden on my heart
for America, because I've beencoming to the United States
(38:28):
since 2014 to preach in a fewchurches, so I've been involved
in some, you know, just being aguest speaker in churches in
California and North Carolinaand Arizona and Texas and I
think, West Virginia also, andVirginia also, if I start
remembering probably 10 states.
(38:50):
I've preached.
Every time I came, I had aburden and I felt that there is
something that the Lord wants todo through me in this land.
But I never knew what it wouldbe.
And last year the Lord gave mea dream in January and in that
(39:10):
dream I saw the entire map ofthe United States and I saw all
the states are wounded and theyare bleeding and it was a very I
would say it wasn't verypleasant the dream.
(39:31):
And as I saw it, I saw the LordJesus standing in the middle of
the map and he whistled in thatdream.
And when he whistled I sawpeople from all sides came into
(39:55):
the United States, like peoplecame in from the borders of the
United States and they werecarrying first aid kits and the
Lord looked at them and said go,heal the land.
And when I saw that dream itjust took hold of me and I right
(40:17):
away knew that it's not justthe burden, burden, but the time
is coming that the Lord isgoing to open the doors for us
and take us there as a thirdnation that we would be touching
to do what he wants us to do.
And that's where this visionbecame so strong in me that I
(40:39):
have to make this move.
It was already so manytransitions for my family, for
my kids it wasn't easy.
My daughter, just in 10 yearsshe already had like five
schools and changing of thenations and cultures and it was
hectic in a way and to tell themagain that we are packing our
(40:59):
bags again and taking anotherstep of faith.
I thought it might be difficultbecause my daughter was getting
attached to India a lot.
But the moment I said it, justthe grace of God, you know, just
took over and what we cannot dois covered by the grace of God.
Grace is provided to us becausewe are not self-sufficient even
(41:32):
to fulfill the call of God overour lives.
We are not sufficient, but hehas made us sufficient to preach
the message of the new covenant.
And so when I said yes and mywife said yes, the grace just
came over us.
And even our kids got ready andmy parents got ready to release
us once again.
And they were getting old and Iwas very worried about them
that, hey, I'm leaving themagain second time in life.
And they were 64-ish, 65 when Iwent to South Africa.
(41:57):
Now they are 70 plus and theyare getting old.
But everything just came inline.
Visas miraculously came for usto work here religiously.
These visas take six to ninemonths.
Our visas came in 16 hours.
That was an incredibletestimony of how the Lord showed
(42:18):
up.
And I, rather we knew that wehave to make a move.
And so, yeah, and why Colorado?
Why Denver?
Because God had to connect meto Sean.
No, I'm just kidding, butthat's true as well.
But that's true as well.
That's a blessing.
The real reason why I choseDenver, Colorado, is because we
(42:41):
saw the Lord standing in themiddle of the nation and we felt
that this is it.
We have to go there and revivalwill flow from the mountains of
Colorado.
And we believed that word thatwas given to us.
And, yeah, we just took a stepof faith.
Three days before the flight, Ihad no clue where I'll head out
(43:05):
from the airport when I land inDenver, and I've never been
here, I didn't know how Denverlooks like.
So it was just a step of faithand, yeah, that's how it all
happened.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Wow, that's an incredible, incredible story.
All of it is absolutelyincredible, and you can see
God's work and power in yourlife.
So let's talk about what theplan is.
What's the?
What is the ministry that Godhas laid on your heart for now
(43:38):
and for the future?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Sure.
So last three years I've beenan overseer and a church planter
.
I've been a pastor for almost15 years of my life, but last
three years the Lord led me notto plant a church when I moved
(44:01):
back to India and he asked me tojust oversee churches and plant
new churches.
And he asked me to just overseechurches and plan new churches,
like, the newest church that weplanted is two weeks back near
the airport in New Delhi, india,and so I want to carry on with
(44:25):
that vision and that structurethat God has given me and what
he has made me.
How the ministry is going tolook like in US is that I will
be helping a lot of young peopleto plant churches.
I really want to be a churchplanter that identifies, trains
and helps young people to plantchurches, and so that will be
(44:46):
the major part of the calling.
I'll be training up a bunch ofpeople, whoever the Lord brings
my way, and he will bring theTimothys to Paul that Paul can
father them and mentor them andtrain them, and so that'll be
one part of what I really wantedto train them, raise them and
(45:11):
then also help them plantchurches and do the journey with
them and like not disappear,but when they plant the church,
I'll still be involved and seeif they need my help or
suggestion or, you know, anymentorship if they want, or any
mentorship if they want.
Second part would be I saw inlast few months living here in
(45:35):
Colorado, or US as general, thatchurches really need to become
more community-based churchesrather than just being
race-based, and they should bereaching out to the more
immigrants, because 14% of thepopulation of United States are
(45:56):
immigrants and if you talk aboutDenver, there are 36,000 Indian
families, there are Mexicans,there are Afghanistanis, there
are Nepalis, there areBangladeshis, pakistanis, people
from Venezuela are moving hereat a great pace, people from
(46:17):
Uganda and so many Africannations.
And, yeah, there's so much ofwork that established churches
can do to reach out to thecommunities and become a
cross-culture community church.
And I think there is a gap ifthey can be helped or, if I use
(46:41):
the right word, if they can beeducated in the right way how to
get this thing done.
I think I see myself as a greattool in the hands of the Lord
for this that if I can just helpchurches and tell them because
I have kind of an experiencewith cross-culture, cross-ocean,
cross-nation church planting.
(47:03):
So I understand mindsets, Iunderstand how they can be led,
what are their reservations,what they need, what they don't
want to see in a church.
So I think if I can bring thatto a table for a church who's
entrusted in reaching out tomore communities, that really,
(47:24):
really strengthened the churchlocally in the United States.
So these are the two thingsthat I really want to serve.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Okay, I'm sure everybody wants to know what
about all your churches in Indiaand South Africa?
How is the Lord using you stillin those relationships?
Speaker 2 (47:47):
I'm fully involved in mentoring them and fathering
them and just standing with them.
Anyhow, they need my help,suggestions, prayers, advices,
even training from the word ofGod, and so I'm Apostle Paul
would write letters to thechurches that he has planted.
(48:09):
Praise God, we can do zoomcalls, yeah, and Google me, so
you're still using the samemedium in regularly teaching
them and mentoring them.
If the Lord allows me, I mightgo to India in a couple of
months and I already I'mplanning a pastors and leaders
conference in which we're goingto bring all our pastors and
(48:29):
leaders in one place and we'regoing to stay there for like two
, three days and have differentsessions and fellowships and Q&A
sessions and also that theykeep improving and keep doing
the work of the Lord.
So I'm fully involved in allthe churches that we have
planted.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, I actually know that already.
I just wanted everyone to knowand I know that because when we
met, you arranged for us to do aclass.
So I'm teaching a class withall of the leaders and all the
pastors among all your churchesand so I'm getting to know them
(49:08):
and I see the impact that youhave had in their lives because
of the way they talk to you,because of the way they talk
about you.
I mean it's incredible the lovethat they have for you and for
your wife and for your family.
They are incredible and aswe've I think we've done three
(49:33):
Friday morning Bible studieswith them, it's Friday night for
them, friday morning for us.
Man, it's been absolutelyincredible to see, as we've been
talking about grace and the newcovenant and the old covenant,
as we've been talking aboutgrace and the new covenant and
the old covenant, they arebrilliant and they get it and
they ask really good questionsand they apply wisdom.
(49:54):
It's really been one of themost incredible groups.
I think we have 53 people inour Zoom every week and that's
just been so, so fun, impactfulfor me, because I just am full
of joy when I see peoplereceiving the gospel of grace
and and learn and just kind ofhaving their eyes and their
hearts opened to the wondersthat jesus has given us and is
(50:18):
supplied for us by his grace.
Um, it's so, so, so beautiful.
So I've enjoyed those, uh,those times and we're going to
be meeting for, I think, sevenmore weeks.
We got going, maybe eight ifwe're, but it's, it's really
been fun.
So I've enjoyed that connectionso much.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
I'm glad to hear that .
Speaker 1 (50:44):
So if people want to find out more about your
ministry, do you have a website?
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Yes, it's www.5ofkapoorcom.
V-a-i-b-h-a-v-k-a-p-o-o-rcom.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Okay, so just your namecom.
That that works, correct.
Okay, so that's the same namethat'll be in the title of this
episode Vibe of Kapoorcom.
I'll pause, I'll put it in theshow notes as well.
Thank you for anyone who'sinterested in, please check out
the website, cause I know he'sworked really hard on having it
(51:25):
communicate.
You can also support Vibe Lovethere.
I know that he's a missionaryhere to America and so he won't
ask you to support, but I willask you to get on there and
support his ministry and whatGod is doing, because I think
it's one of the most valuablethings in our church is planting
(51:45):
new churches, training youngpastors, giving away ministry
support, building others up.
We don't have to run the bigshow.
We don't have to be the bigshot.
We can let the whole body ofChrist be a body that's got
different parts and differentmembers, and I think you're
(52:07):
going to lead a revolution ofthat.
You know smaller churches butpeople being sent out to
ministry, so I'm excited aboutthat.
Yeah, okay.
So what is the strangest thingabout America?
Speaker 2 (52:34):
You're putting me on the spot.
I love everything about America.
There's nothing strange as such.
It's different, you know, likewhere I come from, it's a
different culture.
It's a very appointment-basedcountry.
(52:56):
You have to have an appointment.
In India, you can knock doorsand just go to anybody's house
anytime.
The culture shock is something.
Yeah, I would say people arevery lonely here.
The switches work opposite.
You're off is india's on, andyou're on is india's off okay,
(53:17):
that's a good one, it'sconfusing.
Then drive-thru bank wassomething that blew my mind.
That's a very strange concept.
That was so cool.
Yeah, and yeah, there isnothing small here.
Your small Coke is our largeCoke, so we don't have the large
(53:44):
size that you have in US andIndia.
So these are strange things forsure.
Yeah, yeah, but it's alsoexciting and so amazing.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Cool, that's awesome, man.
Okay, well, we're going to wrapit up there.
I think you've given peopleinspiration.
I think you've been, you'veshown a light on the
faithfulness, the supernaturallove and power of Jesus, which
is all wonderful and glorifiedJesus, and I'm happy that you've
(54:17):
learned about grace and thatyou're applying it to your life
and your ministries, and thatall the guys, all the pastors
that you're connected with, arenow getting a huge dose of new
covenant grace and learning howto apply it so that, um, so that
they can experience the neverending full supply of all that
(54:38):
Jesus has for them.
Uh, so, praise the Lord, thankyou so much for being on today
and, uh, we will talk to youagain soon.
Well, good afternoon everybody.
We are back.
I know it's been a long, longtime.
We were on a quite a hiatus.
We had a lot of stuff going onin the ministry, getting a lot
of stuff started.
Part of that has to do withsome of the guests that, with
the guests that we have today.
I'm very, very excited.
We're going to jump right intoit.
So I'm going to bring in here,let's's bring in.
(00:23):
So this is a vibe of sunny.
He goes by also here in america, kapoor, um, so say hello to
everyone hello everyone, today'sconversation yeah yes, yes.
So, as you guys know, this isthe simple grace podcast, where
we talk about the new covenantof grace and how it's made an
(00:45):
impact in our lives.
So I am honored to have Sonnywith us today because of the
impact that I've seen grace haveon his life, just as I have in
all the guests that we've had onthe podcast so far.
So, sonny, let's just start alittle bit by talking about how
(01:06):
we got connected.
So I'll let you tell the storyin your words.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, it's been a phenomenal way.
The Lord connected us and I'mso honored to know you Well.
As you know, the last year theLord laid on our hearts to move
to the United States for Hisministry, for His work, and we
(01:33):
were led to come to Colorado,especially Denver, and when the
Lord spoke to us we pretty muchknew nobody here, like
absolutely no one.
That was a step of faith and sowe came here last year
September and we were prayingfor some godly connections and
some friendships in the city andthat's where the Lord connected
(02:00):
me to a pastor locally and hemet you and when he he met you,
he just felt that you and I needto connect and that's where our
connection happened and I thinkit's been two, three months.
Uh, man, our friendship is suchan honoring thing to me and I'm
(02:23):
so blessed to know you and yourministry and what you've been
doing.
Yeah you have you've already hada great impact on my life, so I
thank the Lord for this.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So describe that first coffee shop meeting that
we had, because I have myperspective of you.
Know, I just started kind ofsharing my story, but what was
it like for you?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It came as a shock because I was not expecting what
happened in that meeting.
I just thought I'll meet a newpastor or a man of God, just you
know to know and have aconnection.
But then, when you startedtalking about how the Lord has
been leading your life and butthen, when you started talking
(03:12):
about how the Lord has beenleading your life and you know
your ministry in the past andhow this simple grace vision
came to you in 2021.
And we started talking aboutthe content of the book though
the book was still closed and itwas just lying on the table, it
kind of started talking to mealready.
It kind of started talking tome already and I felt so
connected to this um vision andyou know what this book had to
say.
Yeah, so it was.
It was.
It came at the right time and,uh, I needed that word and I
(03:37):
needed that understanding in mylife.
Uh, you know, because I'm in anew season and I know the Lord
wanted to do new things in mylife and, yeah, you're coming
into my life and the book andthe revelation that you have is
definitely God ordained.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, and we started kind of hanging out.
We went out to dinner thatnight with your family and my
family and we just startedhanging out and then we started
getting into the word togetherUm, and we still do that, um and
uh, just still growing.
Uh, we'll get into more of kindof how that's grown and what
that's uh blossomed into later,but uh, needless to say, it's,
(04:21):
it's been amazing and there'salready dozens, if not hundreds,
of people that have beenimpacted just from that one
meeting around the world.
So I am humbled by God'swonderful grace.
But we got to find out whoVaibhav is.
I am so excited to share thisstory with everybody.
(04:44):
Of course I've heard it, butwe'll pretend like I haven't
heard it yet.
So tell us about your story.
What is this that we're talkingabout?
Why should we know you and whatshould we know about God's work
and power displayed in yourlife?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah Well, if anyone wants to know me, I can only say
that my desire would be if youknow me, you would know the Lord
through me and know the Lord ina deeper way.
And if my story can help, mytestimony can help and my
(05:27):
journey can help people inknowing the Lord better, that
would be my greatest joy.
So if I have to share mytestimony and go back a little
bit in time, not a little bitbut a lot back.
I would go back to the time whenI was just seven years old and
(05:51):
one night I was sleeping in myroom and I heard a loud noise
and when I woke up in the middleof the night I went out.
I saw that my parents werehaving a fight, and it was very
horrifying and very scary inthat age.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Now, did you grow up in a Christian family?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
No, no, I'm born in a Hindu family.
Yeah, thank you for asking.
That clarifies more.
And in India, right In India,in New Delhi, there's a small
town near New Delhi calledGhaziabad.
It was known for crime andnothing else, yeah, and so, yeah
(06:39):
, we were a Hindu family.
And in that age, that particularnight, when I came out of the
room, I saw my parents fightingand it just scared me to death.
And in that young age I didn'tknow what exactly is going on,
but I knew something is wrongand it was very saddening, it
(07:02):
was very heartbreaking and itwas very saddening, it was very
heartbreaking.
It wasn't a very pleasant view.
So that night, that very uniquefear gripped my heart, and from
that night onwards I realizedalmost every day that things are
not going well.
And somehow I felt that theyare good people, my parents are
(07:28):
so nice.
Yet things were out of controland they couldn't handle what
they were going through, and sothat became our life in a way
that would be everyday thing,every week thing, and back then
my father was doing pretty wellfinancially.
(07:51):
I still remember back then whenCoke and Pepsi came to India
and so a new plant came up nearour house for Pepsi and my
father was working for Pepsi andI think he was a store manager.
He had a very good position, hewas earning pretty well and
1990, in India hardly anybodyhad like cars or anything.
(08:15):
Most of the people were on likemotorbikes or scooters, you
know, like two wheelers.
But my father had two cars andhe was doing pretty well but
slowly, gradually, he startedlosing everything.
Um, his company was locked downand he lost the job, the car
(08:37):
was sold and so we had toliterally move back to our
grandparents house and and itwas just a single room on the
roof and it wasn't fancy, andand then, yeah, there were
always those fictions in thehouse.
And what happened?
(08:58):
Um, when, probably when I was 10or 11, I I realized that my
mother is now hit with majordepression and she thought she's
a very qualified woman in Indiato have a master's degree in
two subjects.
Like she did master's degreetwice in her life.
(09:21):
Very educated, she was aprincipal in the school.
She lost the job, herconfidence was hit and her hand
was broken again and again.
Her left hand has been brokenfour times in different
occasions pretty much the samebone and she had four surgeries
(09:43):
in her one hand, so that kind ofbondage that just took over our
family.
And so she went into majordepression and she used to just
sleep, you know, sometimes fortwo days at a stretch, and she
would just get up, eat something, have the medicine again and
sleep back again.
(10:04):
And she would just cry up, eatsomething, have the medicine
again and sleep back again.
And she would just cry and justbe very sorrowful and very
depressed.
And we were very stressed abouther as I was growing up, me and
my sister my sister was fouryears, she is four years younger
to me and, yeah, my father whenhe lost everything.
(10:26):
You know he had alcohol issuesas well and then he got into a
lot of debts.
That humiliated him a lot, man.
(10:50):
He literally came to a place oflike a man who failed in life
and couldn't do much or sustainthe success.
So that hit him hard.
And then they were, they werehaving issues, they were, they
never had oneness and thataffected me and my, my sister,
uh, as children of the house.
You know, sometimes parentsdon't realize but their shouting
and screaming impacts the childin a very deep way.
(11:10):
So that hit my confidence and,yeah, so growing up, my mother
was on the bed for a long, longtime and my father was in debt
and alcohol.
And I remember in our teenage mysister attempted suicide twice
(11:38):
and it was very painful for thefamily, and so I saw her on the
bed a lot of times.
She had suicidal thoughts, shewas depressed, she would just
want to be, you know, in her ownzone.
So I knew she's struggling, mymother is struggling, my father
(11:59):
is struggling.
So that was my teenage, youknow, and probably before that
it started like that, and everytime I would talk to my mother
she would put this pressure onme that I'm in this house
because of you guys.
And that was part of the Indianculture.
(12:19):
You know, women fight and likethey are strong in their
covenants, so they don't give upeasily and most of the times
they stay in a marriage or inthe house for kids.
Um, so he would.
She would just say that youknow, I'm here for my kids and
when they'll grow up, I leave.
(12:39):
And when sunny turns 18, youknow I, I'll just feel that my
responsibility is done and I'lljust, you know, leave.
And she didn't realize that itwas hitting me hard.
It was impacting me in a verynegative way it was killing my
joy to grow up.
I didn't want to turn 18.
(12:59):
I somehow hated my birthdaysbecause I was haunted with this
statement that she will leavewhen I'll grow up.
And I loved her and I stilllove her, you know, and I just
missed her that we could havegreat time as a family.
But it was very, very like itwas horrible.
(13:20):
It was horrible, and yeah, so Iwould.
I was growing up with this fear.
Then, you know, betrayed byfriends and never valued by the
people in the world, I developeddepression in my teenage and I
(13:42):
didn't mention it to anybody.
I would cry in classrooms, Iwould.
I would cry in classrooms, Iwould cry sitting in parks,
public parks.
I would not want to go home andI didn't feel cared and loved.
And there was always thisstress growing up about money,
(14:05):
you know so, relatives also,when you don't have a lot of
money, you're not valued and allthat stuff.
So we were having all thoseinsecurities in us.
So it was just taking grip overme fear, inferiority, complex,
low confidence and thendepression and that feelings of
sadness and I would just cry.
(14:26):
And then I felt like I have tofight with all this.
But I had no support I.
There was no truth of anyspirituality in me.
So I was searching for answersand in that tenure of my teenage
my way out was anger.
(14:51):
So anytime I wanted to defeatdepression, I used anger.
So I started cutting myselfwith blades and I would give
pain to my body.
I still have some scars on myleft hand.
I used to write like fullstatements, like sentence, you
(15:13):
know, like with grammar, and Iwould just give pain to myself
and I would be angry.
I would break things, I wouldpunch the walls, I would just
hit a normal dog on the street,just kick a street dog.
I would just do crazy things tolet my feelings come out.
(15:37):
And I developed a lot of angerissues and then frustrations
that why my cousins are soblessed and who is going to
provide for me as I grow up andwill I ever be able to go to a
good college or stuff like that.
So I had all these you knowinsecurities in me.
(15:58):
But I also had a question allmy teenage Is there anybody who
can fix this?
Is there a remedy?
Can someone help me and myfamily?
Like is there a power?
Is there a God?
Is there any religion that canhelp me.
(16:20):
And I was born in a Hindu familyso I was also quite inclined
towards religion because I wasdesperate and I wanted God to do
something for me.
So I've been to mountains tomake sacrifices and I've been to
(16:41):
rivers to you know do therituals.
And I've been to rivers to youknow do the rituals.
There came a time that I evenwent to a couple of mosques far
like, not nearby.
I've traveled like 20 hours ona train, 10 hours on a train,
like went far places in India tothe popular mosque.
You know that something canhappen for me.
(17:08):
So I did it very heartedly andbut every passing year things
were just getting worse and Iwas losing hope in life and so
my mother used to say, when I'llturn 18, she's gonna leave.
And so I remember I did grow upand it was a big fight again
and you know she just left andshe went to my uncle's house
(17:31):
because her parents were notalive and so her brother, elder
brother, is the same.
I was in the.
They lived in the sameneighborhood in India, so she
left and she stayed there and Ididn't know what's going to
happen now and it felt like therelatives are involved and the
(17:54):
stories are going out and it wasjust a mess.
And anytime I looked at myparents I felt they are so good.
You know, they're good people.
They don't want to damageanybody, they are not cheaters
or they're not people who havemade use of anybody.
They are nice people.
They are good people.
But why are families goingthrough this?
(18:17):
So I was very much in pain andthat night I remember I went up
on the roof of we lived on thethird floor and I didn't tell
anybody but I was crying.
I was crying hard and I lookeddown from the roof and I wanted
to jump and end my life.
I just lost all hope and I wastired of that environment.
(18:42):
I was tired to see my sisterhad to start working right after
you know, giving the exams forgrade 12 and like trying our
best that we can pull ourselvesup again in life.
But everything felt verydistorted and it was hopeless
(19:04):
situation for me.
So I was on the roof and I justwanted to die and commit
suicide.
I was already going through alot of pain in my life more than
a decade and a rejection, a lotof rejection from all the sides
in life.
And in that moment, when Iwanted to jump, I was reminded
(19:25):
of this event that took place inmy life when I was in grade two
and now this is college firstyear and I was reminded that I
had a friend and a Christianfamily in the neighborhood and I
was there one evening at theirhouse and we were making some
(19:45):
crafts for school, like craftwork, and so there came a
brother from a ministry calledJesus Calls.
It's a great ministry in Indiaand it was a prayer-based
ministry.
They have reached millions ofpeople in India and all over the
world.
So a brother came from thatministry to pray for that family
(20:08):
and I was there and I stillremember that my friend's mother
looked at that brother and saidas you're praying for us as a
family, why don't you pray forall these kids who are in my
house?
And we were like six, sevenkids, you know, making crafts
and painting.
So, and I still remember hisface, his expressions.
He was so full of compassionand he was from south of India,
(20:33):
he didn't know much Hindi, butyet he was so passionate to pray
for people and I still rememberthat when he prayed for all of
us, I was the only child who wascrying.
Right, I was just crying,sitting there on the floor,
didn't know what's happening tome, but I was crying and I liked
what he was doing and that's it.
(20:55):
After that, there was no contactwith any church.
I never had a Bible, never wentto any church or never heard a
sermon.
And after so many years, I'm inmy first year of college and I
want to end my life and I'mreminded of this event.
And when I'm reminded of this,I said maybe I've missed one God
(21:17):
and I haven't checked with himif he can help me.
And I just, in desperation Istill remember I looked up to
the sky and said Jesus, if youare able and you are alive, save
me and my family.
And that's all I said.
(21:37):
I didn't even say an amen inthe end, because I didn't know
that you have to say an amen inthe end.
I just, with the brokenness ofmy heart, I looked up and said
Jesus, if you are able, if youare really alive, can you do
this?
That's it, that's all I said.
And I was still crying, I wasstill in a mess, no hope for my
(21:58):
life, for my family, for myparents, for my sister, didn't
know what's going to happentomorrow.
And in that moment, as I saidit, I looked, I turned on my
roof and my same friend wasstanding on the roof with me and
we had no connection for sixyears.
(22:21):
In grade seven he changed hisschool.
I was in St Paul's Academy.
I've studied in St Paul'sAcademy.
I've studied in St Paul'sAcademy.
That's also something that justblows my mind, that I would
study in a school with ApostlePaul's name, not knowing
anything about the Bible.
And so he left the school andhe went to Ingram Institute.
(22:43):
That is another school and wehad no contact.
Our friendship was not carryingon in these times.
I had new friends.
But here he is on my roof aftersix years and I was shocked.
And when I asked him, like howcome you're here, he said you
know, I just fell this morning.
I just heard this that I needto just find you and I just need
(23:06):
to meet you.
I have to.
It's like, wow, this isbeautiful.
So I shared within hey, youknow what I'm going through all
this and my family is goingthrough all this.
And I never shared with youbecause we live in the same
neighborhood and in india if youleak things, it just goes to
every house.
You know, people are so muchinvolved with what's happening
(23:27):
in the neighbor's house.
So so we were scared so I nevershared with him.
And when I did share with him,he heard me and was very
compassionate towards me and hesaid get ready next day,
tomorrow, get ready and I'lltake you somewhere, I'll take
you to the church.
I said, man, you know what I'mtired, I've tried everything.
(23:50):
And I said, man, you know whatI'm tired, I've tried everything
and I don't know if I'm readyto go to the church, you know.
But he said, no, you have to.
And he kind of forced me andencouraged me, and so next day I
got ready, he took me to.
It was 21st October, the year2000, tuesday.
(24:10):
And yeah, I went to a churchnear my house and there was no
service going on and thepastor's house was next door.
So we knocked at the door andhis wife opened the door and
said pastor is not at home, butif you guys want to wait, you
can come and wait.
So we came in around 12 o'clockand, yeah, I remember we just
(24:34):
kept waiting the whole day andhe came at around four o'clock.
So I stayed there for fourhours just waiting for the
pastor to come and um and and myfriend was also with me and
when he came he had bags in hishands because he went for
shopping to Delhi and he gotstuff for his kids and he got
(24:56):
busy with the kids and this andthat and the kind of life that
I've lived till.
Then I was so hardened in myself, I was so offended all the time
that I started feeling the samething for that pastor and I
started getting offended.
Why is he not focused on me?
Why is he not talking to me?
(25:16):
You know, and like he's busyand I'm waiting for four hours
and all that.
You know, bad feelings andthoughts were just coming in me
and before that I just wanted togo in those four hours.
I just wanted to leave becauseI was hearing.
These thoughts were so heavy inme that you're wasting your
time.
There is no God.
(25:37):
You are programmed fordestruction.
Your family is a perfectexample of destruction.
These kind of feelings andvoices were in my head.
But I'm glad I sat there forfour hours and when he came I
was offended.
Anyways, he came, he sat infront of me and my friend
introduced me to him and saidhe's my friend, sonny and he
(26:01):
needs prayer.
Can you pray for him?
And all he said was sure, let'spray.
And I was like what?
You're not even asking meanything like, please, I need to
open up, I need to share, Iwant to talk 18 years of things
in me, you know, if not 18, 11years of pain that I'm carrying.
(26:21):
I need to pour it out.
But he didn't ask me anythingand probably the lord stopped
him and he said let's pray.
So, very like half-heartedly, Iclosed my eyes and and just
took my head down and I thoughtto myself you know what I wasted
this day?
No matter, whatever he wants todo, he can do, and I'm out of
(26:42):
this place.
Um, but before he prayed, heopened his eyes again and looked
at me and said I want to askyou a question before I pray for
you.
And I think that questionchanged my life forever.
And he asked me do you believein Jesus?
Now, living a life like that,for so many years I had no faith
(27:08):
on anyone.
Many years I had no faith onanyone.
In fact, I wanted to be so rudewith him.
I just wanted to tell him Idon't believe in jesus.
And I also wanted to tell him.
Sir, I don't even believe inyou.
I'm that pissed off with life.
Do what you want to do, and I'mout of this place.
I think you cannot help me.
(27:29):
I think I'm wasting my time.
So I wanted to be very, veryrude and upfront.
But my very first miraclehappened that day, which I call
a miracle.
Might not be a miracle for somepeople, but for me it was a
miracle indeed.
The miracle was the moment Iwanted to open my mouth and say
(27:49):
no, I don't believe in Jesus.
The moment I opened my mouth, Isaid yes, I do.
And I was like what, no, no, Ididn't want to say this.
And the moment I said yes, Ibelieve in Jesus, something
happened inside of me, likesomething was waiting inside of
me to respond to that questionfor years.
(28:12):
And the moment I said yes, I do, I felt I felt loved.
I felt this jesus is liketaking over me.
I felt closeness to him.
I felt he's in the room.
I could just feel it likethere's something happening and
I bursted in tears and initiallyI felt embarrassed inside that
(28:37):
why am I crying in front of astranger?
But then, a couple of minutesin crying, I realized this is
not me and it's beautiful and Ishould just let it go.
And exactly, I did, exactlywhat I felt.
I just surrendered in thatmoment.
(28:58):
And then I started realizing, mygoodness, this is not normal
crying.
This is not the crying thatI've been doing for the last one
decade.
This is so beautiful because Ifelt joy, I felt light while
crying and I felt that everytear rolling down my cheek
something is melting away, likeit's just coming out of me, and
(29:21):
I call it an encounter withJesus.
And I cried probably for like40, 45 minutes I didn't time it,
but I know it was a long timeand I don't remember a single
word that pastor prayed for.
(29:43):
I couldn't hear him.
I think he also didn't knowwhat's happening inside of me,
between me and Jesus.
And after, when I was donecrying, I just felt I'm the most
joyful person on the face ofthis earth.
I asked myself what are youtalking about?
(30:03):
What problem?
There is no problem in yourlife.
There is nothing wrong in yourlife.
Everything just lookedbeautiful.
Life came back as if there isnothing wrong Like this.
God will fix it, you know.
And it was so beautiful,beautiful experience I had with
(30:24):
Jesus, and no counseling needed,no word of God was given to me,
no scripture was shared with me.
Maybe he was busy, or he didn'tfeel it's the right time, or
maybe I was so overwhelmed Idon't know the reasons, but I
(30:46):
all I know is that I had nothingto tell him.
I couldn't explain what I'mfeeling.
We got up and when we left, Ileft that house and I didn't
tell this to anybody, not evento the pastor, but I was leaving
that house speaking to myselfthat I belong to Jesus.
(31:07):
This God is real.
There was nothing like nocounseling needed to, or no word
of God needed, no sinner'sprayer needed for me to be
convinced.
I knew this experience is real.
I couldn't deny it.
I left that house as a believer, as a child of God, as I was
seeing this inside of me Ibelong to this God Jesus.
(31:29):
He's real.
I was seeing this inside of me.
I belong to this God Jesus.
He's real.
And that was the beginning of aglorious journey.
Came home, you know things werejust the same.
There were so many things thathappened.
We might not have time to coverup everything, but I would just
pursue God every day.
I would just go to church everyday.
I would just ask them to openthe church for me to sit there.
(31:50):
I would try to read the word,try to pray, try to just read
the songbooks.
I would not understand anything, but I would just love it.
I would just love being at thefeet of Jesus.
And that became my life andlong story cut short.
Soon my parents united again andI spoke to them and I said you
(32:13):
know what Jesus loves you?
And I started praying for myfamily.
And they are still together.
24 years they are stilltogether.
And they had their ups anddowns, they had their rough
patches, but the Lord stillblessed them and over the course
of time.
Initially they were very upsetwith me for going to the church
(32:37):
because they thought, if Ibecome a Christian in Indian
community, who's going to marrymy sister?
So they have social bondages intheir minds.
They were so troubled by thefeedback of people.
They were so troubled by thefeedback of people.
People from our neighborhoodused to come and try to convince
my father to complain in policethat they are converting our
(32:58):
son.
So that kind of stuff happened.
My uncles were not happy.
One threatened me that I'mgoing to lock your church up.
And I know police, I knowpoliticians, I'm going to lock
your church up.
And I know police, I knowpoliticians, I'm going to shut
down this church.
I told him you can do that.
We'll come on the road, we'llcome on the street and worship
our God.
You know you can lock thechurch.
(33:23):
I had an uncle from California,my father's friend.
He came to India and asked meoh, you go to church for a girl,
you like a Christian girl,that's why you go to the church.
And I said I don't like anyChristian girl, I go to church
for my Jesus.
So there was persecution,misinterpretations why I go to
(33:45):
church.
So much happened few years.
But I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the persecution, Iloved it and I kept growing in
the Lord came in ministry Wellbefore I talk about the ministry
.
So my mother came out ofdepression and suicidal spirit
left her.
(34:05):
My sister she's a born againbeliever.
My mother is baptized.
My sister is baptized.
My sister she's a born againbeliever.
My mother is baptized.
My sister is baptized.
My sister's husband is baptized.
The entire family gave theirhearts to the Lord over the
period of time and the Lordblessed us.
Our jobs came back, even gaveus a business.
(34:26):
Our debts were paid.
The honor came back in thecommunity, relatives came back,
we got a bigger house, weexpanded as a family, we were
blessed and and and everythingcame to a place where, if, all
things became beautiful.
And I got the answer that I, thequestion that I had in my
(34:49):
teenage who can fix this?
I got the answer Jesus can fixthis.
He brought me out of depression.
He dealt with my anger issues.
He gave me confidence.
He gave me identity from a guywho never wanted to open his
mouth, was very shy, very scaredof public appearances and
didn't want to open my mouth, uh, just became confident.
(35:13):
I started preaching about jesusto everybody my friends, my, my
neighbors, my.
I was just so confident.
He just changed my personalityfrom inside and he did so much
for us, so much, everything, andfixed my story.
And, you know, we were notgoing towards destruction
(35:34):
anymore.
We were progressing towardsblessings in life and spiritual
blessings above all.
And then I was 21.
One day the Lord spoke to meand said hey, what I did for you
.
I want you to go to the wholeworld and tell that I can do the
same for them.
I am the answer.
And if I can listen and hearthe prayer of a Hindu boy
(35:57):
without an amen.
In the end, I can listen tothem, I love them, I can heal
this broken world.
I am the answer and I just saidyes to his call when I was 21.
And I said I'm going to servemy God, came full time, left my
job and just started serving theLord.
I was not even 23 when Iplanted my first church in New
(36:19):
Delhi, near New Delhi, india,and nobody knew me in the city
and God did amazing things.
And 2011, the Lord asked us toplant more churches in India and
we started expanding.
I started raising leaders in2011 and training pastors to
(36:40):
plant more churches in India.
By 2018, we had five or sixchurches in India.
When the Lord spoke to me andmy wife to go to South Africa to
plant a church, we moved toSouth Africa, stayed there for
two years, planted a couple ofchurches there, moved back to
India in 2021.
And three years I lived inIndia and strengthened the
(37:03):
churches there and just helpedthem to grow more.
And so now we have ninechurches in India and two
churches in South Africa.
And last year the Lord broughtus to the United States to carry
on ministry and plant morechurches and be the voice in
this land and just help younglives and help the current
(37:25):
churches to reach out to thecommunities and just be a
healthy community for the peoplein the nation.
So that has been our story.
The Lord has been good and I'mvery thankful to Him.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Awesome, so tell me more about being called to
America.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Tell me more about being called to America.
Yeah, so it's a story in itselfand it just blows my mind every
time I think about it.
So when we moved back to India,I was kind of okay if the Lord
had to settle us in India and Ithought, maybe I've touched two
(38:08):
nations and this is good for myage and I can just settle down
and just be an overseer of thechurches in Indian plant wood
churches.
But I also knew that the Lordhad laid a burden on my heart
for America, because I've beencoming to the United States
(38:28):
since 2014 to preach in a fewchurches, so I've been involved
in some, you know, just being aguest speaker in churches in
California and North Carolinaand Arizona and Texas and I
think, West Virginia also, andVirginia also, if I start
remembering probably 10 states.
(38:50):
I've preached.
Every time I came, I had aburden and I felt that there is
something that the Lord wants todo through me in this land.
But I never knew what it wouldbe.
And last year the Lord gave mea dream in January and in that
(39:10):
dream I saw the entire map ofthe United States and I saw all
the states are wounded and theyare bleeding and it was a very I
would say it wasn't verypleasant the dream.
(39:31):
And as I saw it, I saw the LordJesus standing in the middle of
the map and he whistled in thatdream.
And when he whistled I sawpeople from all sides came into
(39:55):
the United States, like peoplecame in from the borders of the
United States and they werecarrying first aid kits and the
Lord looked at them and said go,heal the land.
And when I saw that dream itjust took hold of me and I right
(40:17):
away knew that it's not justthe burden, burden, but the time
is coming that the Lord isgoing to open the doors for us
and take us there as a thirdnation that we would be touching
to do what he wants us to do.
And that's where this visionbecame so strong in me that I
(40:39):
have to make this move.
It was already so manytransitions for my family, for
my kids it wasn't easy.
My daughter, just in 10 yearsshe already had like five
schools and changing of thenations and cultures and it was
hectic in a way and to tell themagain that we are packing our
(40:59):
bags again and taking anotherstep of faith.
I thought it might be difficultbecause my daughter was getting
attached to India a lot.
But the moment I said it, justthe grace of God, you know, just
took over and what we cannot dois covered by the grace of God.
Grace is provided to us becausewe are not self-sufficient even
(41:32):
to fulfill the call of God overour lives.
We are not sufficient, but hehas made us sufficient to preach
the message of the new covenant.
And so when I said yes and mywife said yes, the grace just
came over us.
And even our kids got ready andmy parents got ready to release
us once again.
And they were getting old and Iwas very worried about them
that, hey, I'm leaving themagain second time in life.
And they were 64-ish, 65 when Iwent to South Africa.
(41:57):
Now they are 70 plus and theyare getting old.
But everything just came inline.
Visas miraculously came for usto work here religiously.
These visas take six to ninemonths.
Our visas came in 16 hours.
That was an incredibletestimony of how the Lord showed
(42:18):
up.
And I, rather we knew that wehave to make a move.
And so, yeah, and why Colorado?
Why Denver?
Because God had to connect meto Sean.
No, I'm just kidding, butthat's true as well.
But that's true as well.
That's a blessing.
The real reason why I choseDenver, Colorado, is because we
(42:41):
saw the Lord standing in themiddle of the nation and we felt
that this is it.
We have to go there and revivalwill flow from the mountains of
Colorado.
And we believed that word thatwas given to us.
And, yeah, we just took a stepof faith.
Three days before the flight, Ihad no clue where I'll head out
(43:05):
from the airport when I land inDenver, and I've never been
here, I didn't know how Denverlooks like.
So it was just a step of faithand, yeah, that's how it all
happened.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Wow, that's an incredible, incredible story.
All of it is absolutelyincredible, and you can see
God's work and power in yourlife.
So let's talk about what theplan is.
What's the?
What is the ministry that Godhas laid on your heart for now
(43:38):
and for the future?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Sure.
So last three years I've beenan overseer and a church planter
.
I've been a pastor for almost15 years of my life, but last
three years the Lord led me notto plant a church when I moved
(44:01):
back to India and he asked me tojust oversee churches and plant
new churches.
And he asked me to just overseechurches and plan new churches,
like, the newest church that weplanted is two weeks back near
the airport in New Delhi, india,and so I want to carry on with
(44:25):
that vision and that structurethat God has given me and what
he has made me.
How the ministry is going tolook like in US is that I will
be helping a lot of young peopleto plant churches.
I really want to be a churchplanter that identifies, trains
and helps young people to plantchurches, and so that will be
(44:46):
the major part of the calling.
I'll be training up a bunch ofpeople, whoever the Lord brings
my way, and he will bring theTimothys to Paul that Paul can
father them and mentor them andtrain them, and so that'll be
one part of what I really wantedto train them, raise them and
(45:11):
then also help them plantchurches and do the journey with
them and like not disappear,but when they plant the church,
I'll still be involved and seeif they need my help or
suggestion or, you know, anymentorship if they want, or any
mentorship if they want.
Second part would be I saw inlast few months living here in
(45:35):
Colorado, or US as general, thatchurches really need to become
more community-based churchesrather than just being
race-based, and they should bereaching out to the more
immigrants, because 14% of thepopulation of United States are
(45:56):
immigrants and if you talk aboutDenver, there are 36,000 Indian
families, there are Mexicans,there are Afghanistanis, there
are Nepalis, there areBangladeshis, pakistanis, people
from Venezuela are moving hereat a great pace, people from
(46:17):
Uganda and so many Africannations.
And, yeah, there's so much ofwork that established churches
can do to reach out to thecommunities and become a
cross-culture community church.
And I think there is a gap ifthey can be helped or, if I use
(46:41):
the right word, if they can beeducated in the right way how to
get this thing done.
I think I see myself as a greattool in the hands of the Lord
for this that if I can just helpchurches and tell them because
I have kind of an experiencewith cross-culture, cross-ocean,
cross-nation church planting.
(47:03):
So I understand mindsets, Iunderstand how they can be led,
what are their reservations,what they need, what they don't
want to see in a church.
So I think if I can bring thatto a table for a church who's
entrusted in reaching out tomore communities, that really,
(47:24):
really strengthened the churchlocally in the United States.
So these are the two thingsthat I really want to serve.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Okay, I'm sure everybody wants to know what
about all your churches in Indiaand South Africa?
How is the Lord using you stillin those relationships?
Speaker 2 (47:47):
I'm fully involved in mentoring them and fathering
them and just standing with them.
Anyhow, they need my help,suggestions, prayers, advices,
even training from the word ofGod, and so I'm Apostle Paul
would write letters to thechurches that he has planted.
(48:09):
Praise God, we can do zoomcalls, yeah, and Google me, so
you're still using the samemedium in regularly teaching
them and mentoring them.
If the Lord allows me, I mightgo to India in a couple of
months and I already I'mplanning a pastors and leaders
conference in which we're goingto bring all our pastors and
(48:29):
leaders in one place and we'regoing to stay there for like two
, three days and have differentsessions and fellowships and Q&A
sessions and also that theykeep improving and keep doing
the work of the Lord.
So I'm fully involved in allthe churches that we have
planted.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, I actually know that already.
I just wanted everyone to knowand I know that because when we
met, you arranged for us to do aclass.
So I'm teaching a class withall of the leaders and all the
pastors among all your churchesand so I'm getting to know them
(49:08):
and I see the impact that youhave had in their lives because
of the way they talk to you,because of the way they talk
about you.
I mean it's incredible the lovethat they have for you and for
your wife and for your family.
They are incredible and aswe've I think we've done three
(49:33):
Friday morning Bible studieswith them, it's Friday night for
them, friday morning for us.
Man, it's been absolutelyincredible to see, as we've been
talking about grace and the newcovenant and the old covenant,
as we've been talking aboutgrace and the new covenant and
the old covenant, they arebrilliant and they get it and
they ask really good questionsand they apply wisdom.
(49:54):
It's really been one of themost incredible groups.
I think we have 53 people inour Zoom every week and that's
just been so, so fun, impactfulfor me, because I just am full
of joy when I see peoplereceiving the gospel of grace
and and learn and just kind ofhaving their eyes and their
hearts opened to the wondersthat jesus has given us and is
(50:18):
supplied for us by his grace.
Um, it's so, so, so beautiful.
So I've enjoyed those, uh,those times and we're going to
be meeting for, I think, sevenmore weeks.
We got going, maybe eight ifwe're, but it's, it's really
been fun.
So I've enjoyed that connectionso much.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
I'm glad to hear that .
Speaker 1 (50:44):
So if people want to find out more about your
ministry, do you have a website?
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Yes, it's www.5ofkapoorcom.
V-a-i-b-h-a-v-k-a-p-o-o-rcom.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Okay, so just your namecom.
That that works, correct.
Okay, so that's the same namethat'll be in the title of this
episode Vibe of Kapoorcom.
I'll pause, I'll put it in theshow notes as well.
Thank you for anyone who'sinterested in, please check out
the website, cause I know he'sworked really hard on having it
(51:25):
communicate.
You can also support Vibe Lovethere.
I know that he's a missionaryhere to America and so he won't
ask you to support, but I willask you to get on there and
support his ministry and whatGod is doing, because I think
it's one of the most valuablethings in our church is planting
(51:45):
new churches, training youngpastors, giving away ministry
support, building others up.
We don't have to run the bigshow.
We don't have to be the bigshot.
We can let the whole body ofChrist be a body that's got
different parts and differentmembers, and I think you're
(52:07):
going to lead a revolution ofthat.
You know smaller churches butpeople being sent out to
ministry, so I'm excited aboutthat.
Yeah, okay.
So what is the strangest thingabout America?
Speaker 2 (52:34):
You're putting me on the spot.
I love everything about America.
There's nothing strange as such.
It's different, you know, likewhere I come from, it's a
different culture.
It's a very appointment-basedcountry.
(52:56):
You have to have an appointment.
In India, you can knock doorsand just go to anybody's house
anytime.
The culture shock is something.
Yeah, I would say people arevery lonely here.
The switches work opposite.
You're off is india's on, andyou're on is india's off okay,
(53:17):
that's a good one, it'sconfusing.
Then drive-thru bank wassomething that blew my mind.
That's a very strange concept.
That was so cool.
Yeah, and yeah, there isnothing small here.
Your small Coke is our largeCoke, so we don't have the large
(53:44):
size that you have in US andIndia.
So these are strange things forsure.
Yeah, yeah, but it's alsoexciting and so amazing.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Cool, that's awesome, man.
Okay, well, we're going to wrapit up there.
I think you've given peopleinspiration.
I think you've been, you'veshown a light on the
faithfulness, the supernaturallove and power of Jesus, which
is all wonderful and glorifiedJesus, and I'm happy that you've
(54:17):
learned about grace and thatyou're applying it to your life
and your ministries, and thatall the guys, all the pastors
that you're connected with, arenow getting a huge dose of new
covenant grace and learning howto apply it so that, um, so that
they can experience the neverending full supply of all that
(54:38):
Jesus has for them.
Uh, so, praise the Lord, thankyou so much for being on today
and, uh, we will talk to youagain soon.
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