February 24, 2024 • 44 mins
Navigating life's storms with integrity and peace is a formidable challenge, especially under the watchful eyes of a faith community. Join us as our guest, Pastor Josh Taransky, opens up about his compelling journey from a pastor's child to experiencing a profound spiritual awakening. In a candid conversation, we explore the trials and tribulations of his divorce and remarriage, revealing how grace has been the cornerstone of resilience and personal growth in both our lives.
The essence of grace doesn't end with personal stories; it extends its transformative power into our ministries. Our episode traverses the delicate balance of leading a congregation through vulnerability, where one's personal life becomes an open book for the world to assess. We delve into the teachings of Acts 20:32 and John 15, discussing practical ways to cultivate an intimate relationship with God, which in turn, bears fruit in every aspect of life and leadership.
Finally, the episode wouldn't be complete without acknowledging the voices that have shaped our approach to faith and service. We reminisce about the indelible impact of mentors like Brian Brodersen and Bob Hoekstra while giving a nod to contemporary thinkers such as N.T. Wright and James Davison Hunter. Their insights into Christian living steer our dialogue toward the future of the church's role in society, all punctuated with a light-hearted Super Bowl prediction that ties our shared faith with the universal language of sports.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, welcome everybody.
Thank you so much for joiningthe Slow Grace podcast again,
and today I have a very specialguest.
Josh Taransky is my guest.
How are you doing, hey, sean?
Good to see you.
I'm doing great, awesome.
So Josh and I met at BibleCollege in 2001.
(00:26):
No, the fall of 2000.
No, we met in 2001.
So sorry, I was there one yearand then you came the year
following me, because we were inthe same room together.
I remember that.
So thank you for being on.
Josh as a pastor out inBaltimore and he's done a lot of
interesting things in his life.
So we're going to we're goingto have some interesting
(00:46):
conversations here.
I'm looking forward to it.
I'd like to get started byreading Acts 2032, just to
highlight something reallyinteresting.
It says so Paul is going andhe's planting churches all over
Asia, and he gives thiscommendation at the end of when
he's leaving a church plant.
He says so now rather than Icommend you to God and to the
(01:10):
word of his grace, which is ableto build you up and give you an
inheritance among all those whoare sanctified, and I just
absolutely love that textbecause it shows that Paul
basically had one strategy forchurch planting and ministry in
general, and that strategy wasto teach people about grace.
(01:33):
I've tried to implement that inmy life and the churches that
I've been involved in.
Planting is to have no otherstrategy except grace and as
learn about what that means.
It means humility walking andhumility walking in faith, and
those two simple things is howkind of grace operates.
(01:54):
You know, human effort ortrying isn't really a part of
that equation, but there is alot of hard work when it comes
to serving the Lord or you knowyou use it's a very exciting
life to dive into the risen lifeof Christ.
So I think we're going to seesome of those things come out in
this conversation with Josh.
(02:14):
So, josh, I'm going to let yourun with where you came from,
how you began and what your lifewas like, kind of growing up,
especially around the context ofwhat religion was like in your
relationship with God.
So take it away.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Awesome, yeah.
So I grew up in a pastor'sfamily.
I'm actually a third generationchurch planter, became a church
planter about seven years ago,but I grew up in the church and
in New Jersey, my dad a pastorand evangelical free church and
then planted a couple of Calvarychapels in New Jersey.
(02:53):
I grew up not wanting to haveanything to do with the church
because I just could not connectwith the people.
There are a few people that Ireally respected, but for the
most part I felt like the peoplethat I witnessed weekend week
out at the church were just notpeople that I respected.
(03:15):
I think I aspired to be like abaseball player or an actor, and
it was when I was 13 and I wasvisiting my grandpa that he made
a.
He got a challenge me, made anoffer and said I'll pay you $100
to memorize a hundred Bibleverses while you're with me for
the next three weeks.
(03:36):
And I thought there's no waythat I can memorize a hundred
Bible verses in the next.
It just this like short periodof time.
And he's a no, no, no, I'llwork with you.
And so he had been deeplyinfluenced by the navigators and
he got out some three by fivecars.
He says let's start with theverses that you know really well
(03:56):
.
And we started just going over,you know, psalm 23 and the
Lord's Prayer, and he dideverything he could to kind of
get me to like the 25 Bibleverse mark, and then from there
every morning I would just kindof work on learning new
scriptures in his garage.
And by the time I was done withthat trip, three weeks in,
(04:20):
really on the way to the airport, I memorized the last verse and
he paid me $100.
But it was as I was in theprocess of memorizing these
verses that my heart changed.
I came alive spiritually andrealized that God wanted to have
a personal relationship with meand that his word was
(04:41):
fundamental to that.
The economy of thatrelationship and it was the
other half of the conversation Iwas having in my head was his
word, and so that was the pointat which I felt like I was
spiritually alive and from therestarted walking with the Lord
(05:02):
and went to Bible college in1999.
And then, yeah, you're, you're,my paths crossed and we were
deeply influenced by some of theteachers that were there at
Cabrichapel Bible College duringthat time, and so that's kind
of that was my early days, andfrom there the ministry was
(05:23):
married, had kids, served in afew different ministry contexts
with college and then assistantpastor and communications
director for a large church, andthen ended up in Baltimore as a
church planter, and so that isthe framework of my story.
(05:46):
One of the most significantevents that happened was that my
wife of 19 years wanted to endour marriage in 2020.
And so I went through a divorceand went through a.
Very just now looking back onit was a painful but fascinating
process.
It was the richest spiritualexperience that I had had to
(06:12):
date, watched God work in mylife through immense pain and
fear, and am now remarried, havebeen married now for two years
to my wife, crystal, and we havea blended family with seven
kids, and I am continuing topastor and lead a Haven City
(06:35):
church in Baltimore, maryland.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Awesome.
So you know I have only donethree, four episodes so far, so
we're pretty new at thebeginning of this and so people
might not know my story alsobecause we really intersect
there.
So you know, right after BibleCollege I got married and had
two kids and then my wife alsochose to end our marriage, chose
(07:03):
to, you know.
She decided she didn't want tobe a Christian anymore and kind
of went all completely that wayand so was a single dad of three
boys for a long time.
It was, I guess, not that long,but a few months and then God
brought me my wife, dana, whoI've now been married to for 15
(07:24):
years and is the greatest thingin my life.
And so but you know peoplethink you're crazy when you say
that was the hardest, mostpainful thing, but also the
thing that was the most powerful, the most full of lights, the
most full of warmth with me andJesus.
(07:45):
Jesus and I.
I grew to depend on him in waysI never could before.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think that was my eyes were open to how much, not
only that I needed him, but thathe was available to me, that he
wanted to engage with me.
So much so that there are timeswhen I look back so fondly on
those times of pain becausethere was such intimacy with
(08:14):
Christ.
Have you, did you experiencesome of that?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, I think that going through the divorce
process was an opportunity forme to lean into how I had been
discipled and trained.
I had been taught some thingsspecifically about what it means
to be a Christian and how Godworks in real life, and I felt
(08:47):
like God gave me grace to walkthrough that season and to
maintain my integrity, and itwas not pleasant at the time,
but now, looking back on it, itis, I like.
(09:08):
My great joy is that God provedhimself and that the things
that I had read from the Bibleand the things that I was
leaning into as, like God, yousay that this is who you are.
You say that this is how youwant me to be.
You say that this is what'simportant to you.
God proved himself to be trueto those things and I'm grateful
(09:34):
that God gave me An ability Towalk through that scenario In a
way where I felt like I couldsay I have a clean conscience
mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, what was the what was the most difficult part
?
I Guess we'll just dive intothis a little bit deeper.
What was the most difficultpart?
The biggest temptations thatyou face, being in ministry at
the same time as, like yourfamily saying it, like it's
falling apart.
It seems like what was, whatwas the hardest part of all of
(10:13):
that?
I?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Think the hardest part in walking through a
divorce as a pastor is thedesire to like, justify yourself
and To try to publicly yeah, totalk about it and to say, look,
(10:41):
I haven't done anything wrong,or you know I didn't deserve
this, or, and so the just.
I Think that that was reallyhard.
Yeah, you really want to.
You know you're in thisleadership position and you want
people to perceive you in aspecific way, and I I went the
(11:04):
opposite direction.
I decided my metaphor is I'mgonna take off my clothes in
public, basically, and let otherpeople Be a part of my life and
let an outside group ofChristians evaluate my life and
listen to my kids.
And you know, if I've doneanything wrong, then I don't
need to be a pastor.
There's nothing that Pastoringis just a role.
(11:28):
It's not my eternal role, andso, yeah, I think that that was.
There was a lot that, a lotthat occurred during that season
of just having to be patientand quiet and Not return evil
(11:50):
for evil.
I think that those are the.
I think Romans 12 it was wasvital talks about being a person
of peace.
Everything you can do, as muchas depends on you be a person of
peace.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So yeah, so you've been a part of large churches,
small churches.
You've worked for Like a radiostation, right, did you do some
radio?
You've been in like a preachingpart.
You've been in like morebackground.
I think how would you say thatunderstanding, grace and the new
(12:28):
covenant is Is important in inthose ministry contexts.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, I think grace in those ministry contexts.
I think the last pastor that Iworked for before I planted
Haven City Church, I was apastor named Brian Brodersen and
Brian was a great example ofgrace to me and the Holy Spirit
was oftentimes Convicting me ofbeing very task oriented as I
(13:03):
watched Brian be Relational withpeople and it was this.
He was a living, breathingexample of where I needed Just
the economy of grace to infectmy way of doing ministry.
When you're part of a bigchurch which was the last
(13:24):
setting I was in before thischurch plant there's a lot of
pressure to kind of keep themachine going.
And If you have a big church orin Brian's case, brian took
over a large church there'sfinancial pressure, there's
crowds and you would think thatthere's all of this there you
(13:47):
inherit a stress of like thisthing's got to grow, we've got
to live up to the history andthe heritage and the legacy
that's here and and so watchingBrian Brodersen do ministry and
have a just a patience and apeace that was entrusting that,
(14:08):
that type of pressure to God,was very significant to me.
It was a great example.
So I think I, you know, I inanother setting, I when I was 25
I went and started a Biblecollege in Hawaii as a part of a
ministry of a church and Ididn't do that Well.
I was very like wrapped up andmy identity was very tie-in with
(14:33):
starting that school and itfelt like I didn't have a good
work life balance and I I didn'twalk in God's grace in that
same way that I saw Brian walkin grace later on in ministry.
(14:55):
So I think a church that isEmbracing the new covenant is a
church that's rejecting thoseexternal pressures and leaning
into the John 15 abiding lifeand they're letting God write
(15:18):
the story and determine what thefruit will look like, and
there's a cooperation with God,like Paul Says.
I think that second Corinthians6, we're workers together with
God, but there's not a, there'snot a drive, there's not a human
like driving for pushingforward of like.
(15:39):
Here's what the results that wehave to see.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
So John 15 is a is an absolutely vital, central piece
to what it looks like to towalk in the new covenant.
What, when you teach that?
What?
What do you highlight?
Like, how do you explain it Tosomebody?
Let's say, somebody's hearingthis for the first time.
They're like what is this John15?
What is abiding in Christ?
How would you describe abidingin Christ?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Hmm, I think it's it really goes back to just framing
up how do you handlerelationships, and I think it's
a really important point to make.
How do you handle relationshipsand what does it mean for you
to be close to the people aroundyou and how did that closeness
transpire and what are kind ofyour?
(16:34):
How do you relate to others?
And then understanding so Ithink there's different relate
Are ways that people dorelationships, and not all of
them are bad or good, I wouldsay they're amoral.
But understanding thatrelationship is central to the
(16:54):
new covenant and that's whatJesus is leaning into in John 15
.
He's saying that the results ofyour life, which you know, john
.
John is talking about theabiding life, but the synoptic
gospels are all about fruit andthe fruit that comes from your
life and your life's like a tree, and good things come from good
trees and bad things come frombad trees.
(17:15):
So the idea of being fruitfulis, all in all, four gospels.
But then John says, hey, you'reconnected to the vine and that
is this relationship that flows.
I was looking at this last weekand in my own life just
(17:38):
thinking, yeah, what does thatmean for me?
And over this last, starting anew year, what does it mean, and
so really practically it meanswhat is keeping, evaluating,
what's keeping me from thatsense of closeness, and so it's
(18:00):
meant just a renewed emphasis onhey, I want to get up here, I
need more time because I'mtime-oriented, I can't just have
like a little.
I like to spend a lot of timereading my Bible and talking to
the Lord about what I'm reading,and then for me it means
(18:21):
meditating on that throughoutthe day and returning back to
the things that I was reading inthe morning.
So, yeah, I think that that'sit, but can I just say one more
thing about the John 15 piece?
Jesus doesn't just drop theabiding life into John 15.
Before John 15, he has beentraining his disciples and
(18:45):
telling his disciples that heabides in the Father and the
Father in him and that hedoesn't do anything without the
Father and that he doesn't sayanything without the Father.
He doesn't do anything withoutthe Father guiding him.
And so he's modeled for threeyears the abiding life and he's
made it really clear that thewords and works of his life are
(19:06):
the result of him being in theFather and the Father in him.
And then he comes along andtells his disciples okay, I want
you to be in me, which is thesecond kind of in relationship.
But then he goes beyond John 15and he says and the Spirit, I'm
going to leave you, but theSpirit's going to be in you.
So he continues this one beingin the other and producing fruit
(19:34):
.
And then he tells the saints,he says in John 17,.
Like, you're going to be in theworld, I've called you to be in
the world.
And so, yeah, the whole Johnthing is fascinating that it
doesn't just start in John 15 ofthe abiding life or the one
thing being in another, it's allthe way throughout John.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, and you got.
You and I were both reallyimpacted by Bob Hoekstra, who
was one of our teachers at BibleCollege and he was just an
incredible teacher of grace andhe called that abiding
relationship that in.
He called that united closeness.
(20:16):
So you're so close that you'reunited.
And the illustration he alwaysused, which I'm totally going to
steal he said it's like asponge, because the sponge is in
the ocean.
But if you take that sponge andyou pick it up and you squeeze
it, the ocean comes out of thesponge because the ocean is in
(20:37):
the sponge.
So it's this two way, almostinception, like united closeness
.
United being united in Christ,obviously by faith through his
death and resurrection, gives usthis relationship of united
closeness.
(20:57):
And then, as he leans into theterm relationship and
relationship and relationship,bob would always bring up the
those two very important termsof humility and faith, the way
that grace works, and that'swhat he would call them
relational realities, becausehumility is saying God, I need
(21:18):
you and faith is saying God, Itrust you.
And in that engagement withJesus you get.
You get all the new covenant,you get all of his grace.
That is what it looks like toabide, you know, to stay
connected with him is to keep inthis position where, like I
know, I need him and that'sgoing to depend on him, which
(21:42):
describes a really, you know,neat relationship with God.
And then what we get out of itis this united closeness where
we get everything that he cangive.
Every blessing that heavencould give is ours in Christ.
That's beautiful, do youremember?
I?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
love that.
That analogy I remember.
I remember him teaching that.
Yeah, yeah, I remember when Bobwould teach that it was, it was
significant.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
You know no one would ever accuse Bob of being the
most dynamic speaker, but he wasincredibly good at those those
explanations that would click inyour mind to help you
understand something, and that'swhat I appreciated most about
(22:34):
his ministry.
If anyone ever wants to go backand look at his stuff, living
in Christorg is his website andI think it still has a number of
his teachings and including theentire Bible college course
called growing in grace.
So 31 hours of content rightthere.
If you want to dig in thatliving in Christorg.
Certainly my ministry has beencompletely formed by and modeled
(23:03):
after, kind of how I learnedabout grace from him, who was
the most impactful pastor inyour life.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That's a really good question.
There are a few pastors thathave deeply influenced me.
One I mentioned already, BrianBrodersen.
I grew up under Joe Foch'sverse by verse, Bible teaching
on Sunday nights and Wednesdaynights when I was 1617 years.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
He's in Philly or is he in New Jersey?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
He's at Cabbage Apple Philadelphia, which is about 35
minute drive from where I lived.
My dad was a huge influence onme and my dad was very practical
and a really good kind ofoffset to some of the more
(24:06):
ethereal kind of teachings thatwere out there that I was
getting but not really likeworking it into real life.
My grandpa deeply influenced mylife, really emphasizing like
scripture memorization.
Yeah, I think those individualsand then you know, I think the
(24:28):
thing that's funny about BobHoekstra's ministry is that is
just the level of impact that hehad was profound and he really
dialed in some specific, somespecific teachings.
He taught those over and overagain to Bible college students
(24:48):
and I went on after Biblecollege to run Bible colleges
and would continue to getstudents that would transfer
from the campus in Marietta andthey would say, well, like you
know, they would just talk aboutthe impact that Bob had had on
their life.
So it has always impressed mejust the fruitfulness of his
(25:14):
teaching.
There's something to be saidthere in terms of legacy and,
yeah, I am shocked that he wasfrankly boring in his teaching
style but more fruitful than anyother teacher I had in Bible
college.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I would say the exact same thing.
I fell asleep in his class.
I'm not joking, it was at twoo'clock in the afternoon and
you're a Bible college studentand you had a lot going on.
But it was also kind of amazingin his class because you don't
know when the message of gracein the New Covenant will just
(25:59):
knock someone out and just theywould get the aha moment and you
don't know which part it wouldbe.
But you could just sit andwatch, like sit in the back, and
you would just get someone tobe like oh, I get it now, and
there would be like an audibleexplanation or you know, it's
just watching people get pickedoff by a sniper.
It was like that's how I thinkof Bob Hope, because it was
(26:22):
class, because it was I don'tknow what it was Like for me.
I know the exact moment is whenhe said if you think being a
Christian and growing insanctification is about trying
harder, I have great news foryou.
It's actually the opposite.
It's about learning to rest inthe finished work of Christ and
(26:42):
sanctification is a free giftthat no one could earn.
But that's okay, because Godwas freely passing it out.
He was freely willing to giveus sanctification and that just
transformed my life.
I was so burdened by how do Ichange, how do I transform?
(27:03):
And I had seen some but I justdidn't know how it worked and I
wanted to analyze it and knowhow it worked and to have a
simple explanation of abiding.
Christ, through humility andfaith and grace, is yours.
His grace comes, flows intoyour life and it was just so
freeing and has been kind of thefoundation of my ministry for
(27:25):
25 years church planting andwhatever else I've been able to
be a part of.
So it's been really, reallypowerful and impactful.
So well, let's move into today.
Yeah, what do you got going onand how is ministry going and
what are you excited about?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Wow, that's a good question.
So I was really impacted by theMissional Movement, which was
the idea of living as amissionary in your everyday life
, where you live.
And so when I moved toBaltimore, my spiritual hunger
(28:12):
and passion was I want to justlive as a Christian in a
neighborhood consistently andinvest right there and just try
to be as authentic in my faithas possible and man God, let me
really have a beautiful seasonof doing that and in the process
(28:34):
, both planting a church in aneighborhood called Fells Point
and it is not an easy place toplant a church.
There have been a number ofattempts to plant churches in
Fells Point and God hasgraciously sustained us.
He's given us church partners.
There's about four other largerchurches that financially
(28:57):
support us, and my church iscomposed of a broad
socioeconomic range of people.
And in the process of plantingour church, I was looking for a
building and found out thatthere was a relief center in our
(29:20):
neighborhood that's owned bythe Lutherans, the Lutheran
Mission Society and they werelooking for a change, a
different way of doing theirministry, and so I was looking
for a building.
They were looking for adirector of the center, and so
it was a trade.
I came in as the new directorand they let us use the building
(29:43):
to plant the church out ofinitially, and it was a blessing
in disguise, it became a goodlaunching point to introduce
myself to the neighborhood.
Instead of just coming in andsaying I'm starting a church,
come to my church, I was able tosay, hey, I run a relief center
and I'm a pastor, and so itmade it very clear like I'm here
(30:04):
to help, I'm here to providerelief, I'm here, and it was
very it was.
You know, look, I didn'tstrategically look for that type
of ministry, but it shouldn'thave been surprising, because I
had done relief type work orwork with vulnerable people
groups many times before, and soI run this relief center.
(30:31):
That now, since the beginning ofCOVID so 2020, probably in
April 2020, we started pickingup food from local warehouses in
a box truck and we that thequantity of food has grown.
So we now feed about 1500households every week on three
(30:52):
different days Tuesdays, fridaysand Saturdays.
We distribute about a milliondollars worth of food every
month and we now have so muchfood that comes in or is
entrusted to us that we now pushit out to 32 other food
pantries around the city andthat network is called the Food
(31:15):
Access Coalition, which I leadalong with a guy named Matt
Stevens, and it's so it runsparallel.
We don't run hostile to thelocal government.
We work kind of in alongside ofthe planning department of
Baltimore City.
We don't not depend on them forany resources, but we're not
trying to thwart them in any oftheir efforts either, and we're
(31:36):
trying to make Jesus knownthrough loving our neighbors, by
providing for their physical,physical needs.
So that's what my ministrylooks like.
I gather a smaller congregationon Sunday and trying to grow a
church locally and kind of happywith where it's at and praying
(32:01):
that more people want to have arelationship with Jesus in a 10
to Sunday morning service andthen all week receiving food in.
In fact, there may be somebackground noise here in a
little bit, because our truckwill show up here at our center
where I'm recording this from,and there my drivers, latino,
(32:24):
got awesome volunteers that areLatino, they're joyful, they're
loud, they scream in Spanish ateach other because they love
each other so much.
It's a lot of fun.
So that's what my life lookslike.
That's what ministry looks likeright now, and so I'm going
through a season personally.
So I feel like I called me andgifted me to pastor, which I've
(32:46):
enjoyed, and many people kind ofwho knew me watched me plant
Haven City Church and they feltlike man.
That is the most human I'veever seen you be Like.
You're just really flourishing,which is an awesome testimony
to God's grace.
But I'm also going through aseason where I'm seeing how
living out my faith means.
(33:09):
It means doing things that arereally practical, like starting
businesses and and hiring peoplein my church to work in those
businesses.
So I had a media company for awhile.
Where I was, I was making alittle bit of money, but most of
(33:29):
the jobs I was getting I wasjust passing them off to people
in my church, because I have alot of people in my church that
are struggling financially.
So I think that's exciting.
To me, 2024 is really a seasonof kind of having a portfolio,
recognizing that God's work inmy life manifests itself
sometimes as a relief center,sometimes as pastoring the
(33:52):
church, sometimes running asuccessful business, sometimes
as coordinating, you know, anetwork of churches that are
distributing food to people whoare vulnerable, and sometimes
it's a one off effort where it'sjust like, hey, let's, let's do
this thing this one time, andso that's plus.
It's a lot to have seven kidsthat are all teenagers.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I understand.
I have six boys, oldest being21, he's turned 21 on Saturday,
you got it and 21, 20, 19, 19,18, and 16.
All boys, oh Lord, it's.
It's a lot.
Last question here for me Tellme about your team.
(34:41):
What does your team look likethat surrounds you?
And how do you, how do youteach them to do ministry by
grace, the way that BrianBrodersen taught you?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
That's a really good question.
So my team, 90% of my team Ihave to talk to them through a
translator or through atranslation in messages, because
they speak Spanish and I speakno Spanish, and so walking in
(35:17):
the new covenant for me rightnow means that I am in, I'm
trusting that God has theirdiscipleship story in his hands
and that their spiritualformation is not dependent on my
capacity to communicate withthem, and so most of my team is
(35:41):
volunteers here that speakSpanish, in our relief center
and then in my church.
I think the way that God'sgrace is evident and hopefully,
that the training in my life isthat we're we are pulling from
every possible discipleshipschema that's out there, right,
(36:09):
every kind of differentChristian influence or or tribe
that's out there is.
Basically, we're crammedtogether in a church.
You have black, filipino,latino, white, poor, wealthy.
We got people that drive inwith their outies and push their
shopping homeless shoppingcarts in, people that are
mentally ill, people that are,you know, killing it in their
(36:31):
jobs and doing really well, andin that setting, I think that
you know my conversation aroundthe communion table is like this
cup that we're going to sharehere.
This is the, the new covenantand it represents this grace
that is enabling us not just todo overt Christian acts of
(36:52):
evangelism or discipleship orattending church or volunteering
a church, but it is the graceto do normal Monday and normal
Tuesday, go into our week and tointo just our native
environments and to live out afruitful, a fruitful life where
the things that we're studyingright now, we're going through
(37:14):
the sermon now, this stuffbecomes just, it overflows.
It's just, it's our nativetongue, that we love people that
are difficult to love, that wehave a different sexual ethic,
that we have a different way ofunderstanding values and what's
valuable, because we live inthis, this the kingdom of heaven
(37:36):
okay, I lied.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
One more question yeah, what book has been most
impactful for you recently?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
hmm, that's a tough one yeah, I would say I
definitely come back to.
There's two books.
Let me pull them up here on myon my kindle app.
One of them is anti rights book, about being after.
(38:21):
It's called after you believe,and he wrestles with okay, now
that you're saved, what do youdo?
What does it mean to live outthe Christian life?
And I appreciate the way thathe wrestles with that idea.
And so after you believe is onebook that has had a significant
(38:42):
influence.
And then let's see if you havea one here.
It's James Hunter Davis.
To change the world change theworld.
James Davison is James DavisonHunter is the author's name, and
(39:06):
he is a professor I think it'sat Yale, and so he talks about
what, what will change the world.
And I grew up in a Christianitythat was very much focused on
(39:29):
changing the world through likepolitics and that type of thing,
and he really advocates forChristians living out their
faith in very like normal,natural ways.
So you kind of I have a videoon my YouTube channel about this
(39:50):
, about how the world is changedthrough like philosophers,
ideas being popularized byeducate, educators and
entertainers, and then it'sadopted, those, those
philosophical ideas that arekind of propagated by
entertainers and educators, thenyou know the populace kind of
(40:13):
adopts those ideas.
They form the thinking ofsociety.
And then you have politiciansthat run in a democratic society
for office, and if they don'thold to what's already been
adopted as popular, they won'twin their position in office.
And what he says is like look,if you're, as a Christian, if
(40:34):
you're investing in politics,you're way downstream from where
culture is being shaped, and sowhat we need to be doing is we
need to replace our emphasis, gofurther upstream, realize that
we hold one of the greatestphilosophies.
We hold the greatest philosophy, and we need to articulate that
(40:54):
in a way that that is, that isattractive and wants to be
adopted by educators, andentertainers say that's kind of
like a condensed version of it.
So, yeah, both of those bookshad a pretty profound impact.
I think all my life, oh, justin the last couple of years cool
(41:16):
.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I love it, man.
That's really cool.
It makes me think back to theverse that we kind of brought up
at the beginning, which is acts2032, that Paul says I commend
you to God into the word of hisgrace, which is able to build
you up and give you aninheritance.
Paul was like that, you know.
He said I got this philosophy,I got a plan.
(41:37):
Now you guys run with it.
You know, all you need is isgrace, and to be able to
understand grace and be able tounderstand the realities for
yourself, be able to walk inthose realities and then be able
to, you know, reproduce thoserealities and people that you
can teach.
My goal is that there's arevival and revolution in the
(41:58):
church of understanding grace.
Not that people don't get it,but I think that there's
definitely confusion when, whenit comes to the sanctification
aspect of grace, everybody getsjustification.
You know that your, your sins,are forgiven by grace alone.
If you don't know that, you'rereally not even a Christian yet
(42:19):
because you can't earn, youcan't earn forgiveness and so.
But it's the, it's thetransformation.
How are we changed?
How are we transform?
How does sanctification happenwhen you just get that?
That is also the free gift ofgrace that it is able to build
you up.
Then it's like everything justkind of gets, gets unlocked for
(42:40):
for believers that I've seen.
So thank you for being a part ofspreading the message of grace
in the in the city of Baltimore.
You guys just got your heartsbroken in the NFL, so I'm sure
there's a lot of people ready toaccept Jesus so doing the work
(43:01):
of the kingdom.
I guess I don't know, but hebreaks my Broncos hearts every
day, so we'll see what happens.
Super, we're recording thislike a week before the Super
Bowl, but yes, it actually won'tcome out till after the Super
Bowl.
But I guess who you gonna pick.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
We'll lay it out KC or San Francisco yeah,
definitely KC yeah, yeah okay,yeah, that's definitely,
definitely my pick, just becausethat's my wife's pick and I
don't want to have any disunityin my home, my head my heart
(43:45):
says San Francisco, but my headsays Patrick Mahomes just ain't
going down, that's right.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
So try man.
Well, it's been awesome to talkwith you and to be united with
you.
You're an awesome brother inChrist.
Thank you for that.
I look forward to connectingmore with you and if we can do
ministry together, definitelylet me know.
But thank you, we'll go andwrap it up there.
It's been a good one.
We'll talk to you later.
(44:14):
Bye now thanks, john.
Okay, welcome everybody.
Thank you so much for joiningthe Slow Grace podcast again,
and today I have a very specialguest.
Josh Taransky is my guest.
How are you doing, hey, sean?
Good to see you.
I'm doing great, awesome.
So Josh and I met at BibleCollege in 2001.
(00:26):
No, the fall of 2000.
No, we met in 2001.
So sorry, I was there one yearand then you came the year
following me, because we were inthe same room together.
I remember that.
So thank you for being on.
Josh as a pastor out inBaltimore and he's done a lot of
interesting things in his life.
So we're going to we're goingto have some interesting
(00:46):
conversations here.
I'm looking forward to it.
I'd like to get started byreading Acts 2032, just to
highlight something reallyinteresting.
It says so Paul is going andhe's planting churches all over
Asia, and he gives thiscommendation at the end of when
he's leaving a church plant.
He says so now rather than Icommend you to God and to the
(01:10):
word of his grace, which is ableto build you up and give you an
inheritance among all those whoare sanctified, and I just
absolutely love that textbecause it shows that Paul
basically had one strategy forchurch planting and ministry in
general, and that strategy wasto teach people about grace.
(01:33):
I've tried to implement that inmy life and the churches that
I've been involved in.
Planting is to have no otherstrategy except grace and as
learn about what that means.
It means humility walking andhumility walking in faith, and
those two simple things is howkind of grace operates.
(01:54):
You know, human effort ortrying isn't really a part of
that equation, but there is alot of hard work when it comes
to serving the Lord or you knowyou use it's a very exciting
life to dive into the risen lifeof Christ.
So I think we're going to seesome of those things come out in
this conversation with Josh.
(02:14):
So, josh, I'm going to let yourun with where you came from,
how you began and what your lifewas like, kind of growing up,
especially around the context ofwhat religion was like in your
relationship with God.
So take it away.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Awesome, yeah.
So I grew up in a pastor'sfamily.
I'm actually a third generationchurch planter, became a church
planter about seven years ago,but I grew up in the church and
in New Jersey, my dad a pastorand evangelical free church and
then planted a couple of Calvarychapels in New Jersey.
(02:53):
I grew up not wanting to haveanything to do with the church
because I just could not connectwith the people.
There are a few people that Ireally respected, but for the
most part I felt like the peoplethat I witnessed weekend week
out at the church were just notpeople that I respected.
(03:15):
I think I aspired to be like abaseball player or an actor, and
it was when I was 13 and I wasvisiting my grandpa that he made
a.
He got a challenge me, made anoffer and said I'll pay you $100
to memorize a hundred Bibleverses while you're with me for
the next three weeks.
(03:36):
And I thought there's no waythat I can memorize a hundred
Bible verses in the next.
It just this like short periodof time.
And he's a no, no, no, I'llwork with you.
And so he had been deeplyinfluenced by the navigators and
he got out some three by fivecars.
He says let's start with theverses that you know really well
(03:56):
.
And we started just going over,you know, psalm 23 and the
Lord's Prayer, and he dideverything he could to kind of
get me to like the 25 Bibleverse mark, and then from there
every morning I would just kindof work on learning new
scriptures in his garage.
And by the time I was done withthat trip, three weeks in,
(04:20):
really on the way to the airport, I memorized the last verse and
he paid me $100.
But it was as I was in theprocess of memorizing these
verses that my heart changed.
I came alive spiritually andrealized that God wanted to have
a personal relationship with meand that his word was
(04:41):
fundamental to that.
The economy of thatrelationship and it was the
other half of the conversation Iwas having in my head was his
word, and so that was the pointat which I felt like I was
spiritually alive and from therestarted walking with the Lord
(05:02):
and went to Bible college in1999.
And then, yeah, you're, you're,my paths crossed and we were
deeply influenced by some of theteachers that were there at
Cabrichapel Bible College duringthat time, and so that's kind
of that was my early days, andfrom there the ministry was
(05:23):
married, had kids, served in afew different ministry contexts
with college and then assistantpastor and communications
director for a large church, andthen ended up in Baltimore as a
church planter, and so that isthe framework of my story.
(05:46):
One of the most significantevents that happened was that my
wife of 19 years wanted to endour marriage in 2020.
And so I went through a divorceand went through a.
Very just now looking back onit was a painful but fascinating
process.
It was the richest spiritualexperience that I had had to
(06:12):
date, watched God work in mylife through immense pain and
fear, and am now remarried, havebeen married now for two years
to my wife, crystal, and we havea blended family with seven
kids, and I am continuing topastor and lead a Haven City
(06:35):
church in Baltimore, maryland.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Awesome.
So you know I have only donethree, four episodes so far, so
we're pretty new at thebeginning of this and so people
might not know my story alsobecause we really intersect
there.
So you know, right after BibleCollege I got married and had
two kids and then my wife alsochose to end our marriage, chose
(07:03):
to, you know.
She decided she didn't want tobe a Christian anymore and kind
of went all completely that wayand so was a single dad of three
boys for a long time.
It was, I guess, not that long,but a few months and then God
brought me my wife, dana, whoI've now been married to for 15
(07:24):
years and is the greatest thingin my life.
And so but you know peoplethink you're crazy when you say
that was the hardest, mostpainful thing, but also the
thing that was the most powerful, the most full of lights, the
most full of warmth with me andJesus.
(07:45):
Jesus and I.
I grew to depend on him in waysI never could before.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think that was my eyes were open to how much, not
only that I needed him, but thathe was available to me, that he
wanted to engage with me.
So much so that there are timeswhen I look back so fondly on
those times of pain becausethere was such intimacy with
(08:14):
Christ.
Have you, did you experiencesome of that?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, I think that going through the divorce
process was an opportunity forme to lean into how I had been
discipled and trained.
I had been taught some thingsspecifically about what it means
to be a Christian and how Godworks in real life, and I felt
(08:47):
like God gave me grace to walkthrough that season and to
maintain my integrity, and itwas not pleasant at the time,
but now, looking back on it, itis, I like.
(09:08):
My great joy is that God provedhimself and that the things
that I had read from the Bibleand the things that I was
leaning into as, like God, yousay that this is who you are.
You say that this is how youwant me to be.
You say that this is what'simportant to you.
God proved himself to be trueto those things and I'm grateful
(09:34):
that God gave me An ability Towalk through that scenario In a
way where I felt like I couldsay I have a clean conscience
mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, what was the what was the most difficult part
?
I Guess we'll just dive intothis a little bit deeper.
What was the most difficultpart?
The biggest temptations thatyou face, being in ministry at
the same time as, like yourfamily saying it, like it's
falling apart.
It seems like what was, whatwas the hardest part of all of
(10:13):
that?
I?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Think the hardest part in walking through a
divorce as a pastor is thedesire to like, justify yourself
and To try to publicly yeah, totalk about it and to say, look,
(10:41):
I haven't done anything wrong,or you know I didn't deserve
this, or, and so the just.
I Think that that was reallyhard.
Yeah, you really want to.
You know you're in thisleadership position and you want
people to perceive you in aspecific way, and I I went the
(11:04):
opposite direction.
I decided my metaphor is I'mgonna take off my clothes in
public, basically, and let otherpeople Be a part of my life and
let an outside group ofChristians evaluate my life and
listen to my kids.
And you know, if I've doneanything wrong, then I don't
need to be a pastor.
There's nothing that Pastoringis just a role.
(11:28):
It's not my eternal role, andso, yeah, I think that that was.
There was a lot that, a lotthat occurred during that season
of just having to be patientand quiet and Not return evil
(11:50):
for evil.
I think that those are the.
I think Romans 12 it was wasvital talks about being a person
of peace.
Everything you can do, as muchas depends on you be a person of
peace.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So yeah, so you've been a part of large churches,
small churches.
You've worked for Like a radiostation, right, did you do some
radio?
You've been in like a preachingpart.
You've been in like morebackground.
I think how would you say thatunderstanding, grace and the new
(12:28):
covenant is Is important in inthose ministry contexts.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, I think grace in those ministry contexts.
I think the last pastor that Iworked for before I planted
Haven City Church, I was apastor named Brian Brodersen and
Brian was a great example ofgrace to me and the Holy Spirit
was oftentimes Convicting me ofbeing very task oriented as I
(13:03):
watched Brian be Relational withpeople and it was this.
He was a living, breathingexample of where I needed Just
the economy of grace to infectmy way of doing ministry.
When you're part of a bigchurch which was the last
(13:24):
setting I was in before thischurch plant there's a lot of
pressure to kind of keep themachine going.
And If you have a big church orin Brian's case, brian took
over a large church there'sfinancial pressure, there's
crowds and you would think thatthere's all of this there you
(13:47):
inherit a stress of like thisthing's got to grow, we've got
to live up to the history andthe heritage and the legacy
that's here and and so watchingBrian Brodersen do ministry and
have a just a patience and apeace that was entrusting that,
(14:08):
that type of pressure to God,was very significant to me.
It was a great example.
So I think I, you know, I inanother setting, I when I was 25
I went and started a Biblecollege in Hawaii as a part of a
ministry of a church and Ididn't do that Well.
I was very like wrapped up andmy identity was very tie-in with
(14:33):
starting that school and itfelt like I didn't have a good
work life balance and I I didn'twalk in God's grace in that
same way that I saw Brian walkin grace later on in ministry.
(14:55):
So I think a church that isEmbracing the new covenant is a
church that's rejecting thoseexternal pressures and leaning
into the John 15 abiding lifeand they're letting God write
(15:18):
the story and determine what thefruit will look like, and
there's a cooperation with God,like Paul Says.
I think that second Corinthians6, we're workers together with
God, but there's not a, there'snot a drive, there's not a human
like driving for pushingforward of like.
(15:39):
Here's what the results that wehave to see.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
So John 15 is a is an absolutely vital, central piece
to what it looks like to towalk in the new covenant.
What, when you teach that?
What?
What do you highlight?
Like, how do you explain it Tosomebody?
Let's say, somebody's hearingthis for the first time.
They're like what is this John15?
What is abiding in Christ?
How would you describe abidingin Christ?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Hmm, I think it's it really goes back to just framing
up how do you handlerelationships, and I think it's
a really important point to make.
How do you handle relationshipsand what does it mean for you
to be close to the people aroundyou and how did that closeness
transpire and what are kind ofyour?
(16:34):
How do you relate to others?
And then understanding so Ithink there's different relate
Are ways that people dorelationships, and not all of
them are bad or good, I wouldsay they're amoral.
But understanding thatrelationship is central to the
(16:54):
new covenant and that's whatJesus is leaning into in John 15
.
He's saying that the results ofyour life, which you know, john
.
John is talking about theabiding life, but the synoptic
gospels are all about fruit andthe fruit that comes from your
life and your life's like a tree, and good things come from good
trees and bad things come frombad trees.
(17:15):
So the idea of being fruitfulis, all in all, four gospels.
But then John says, hey, you'reconnected to the vine and that
is this relationship that flows.
I was looking at this last weekand in my own life just
(17:38):
thinking, yeah, what does thatmean for me?
And over this last, starting anew year, what does it mean, and
so really practically it meanswhat is keeping, evaluating,
what's keeping me from thatsense of closeness, and so it's
(18:00):
meant just a renewed emphasis onhey, I want to get up here, I
need more time because I'mtime-oriented, I can't just have
like a little.
I like to spend a lot of timereading my Bible and talking to
the Lord about what I'm reading,and then for me it means
(18:21):
meditating on that throughoutthe day and returning back to
the things that I was reading inthe morning.
So, yeah, I think that that'sit, but can I just say one more
thing about the John 15 piece?
Jesus doesn't just drop theabiding life into John 15.
Before John 15, he has beentraining his disciples and
(18:45):
telling his disciples that heabides in the Father and the
Father in him and that hedoesn't do anything without the
Father and that he doesn't sayanything without the Father.
He doesn't do anything withoutthe Father guiding him.
And so he's modeled for threeyears the abiding life and he's
made it really clear that thewords and works of his life are
(19:06):
the result of him being in theFather and the Father in him.
And then he comes along andtells his disciples okay, I want
you to be in me, which is thesecond kind of in relationship.
But then he goes beyond John 15and he says and the Spirit, I'm
going to leave you, but theSpirit's going to be in you.
So he continues this one beingin the other and producing fruit
(19:34):
.
And then he tells the saints,he says in John 17,.
Like, you're going to be in theworld, I've called you to be in
the world.
And so, yeah, the whole Johnthing is fascinating that it
doesn't just start in John 15 ofthe abiding life or the one
thing being in another, it's allthe way throughout John.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, and you got.
You and I were both reallyimpacted by Bob Hoekstra, who
was one of our teachers at BibleCollege and he was just an
incredible teacher of grace andhe called that abiding
relationship that in.
He called that united closeness.
(20:16):
So you're so close that you'reunited.
And the illustration he alwaysused, which I'm totally going to
steal he said it's like asponge, because the sponge is in
the ocean.
But if you take that sponge andyou pick it up and you squeeze
it, the ocean comes out of thesponge because the ocean is in
(20:37):
the sponge.
So it's this two way, almostinception, like united closeness
.
United being united in Christ,obviously by faith through his
death and resurrection, gives usthis relationship of united
closeness.
(20:57):
And then, as he leans into theterm relationship and
relationship and relationship,bob would always bring up the
those two very important termsof humility and faith, the way
that grace works, and that'swhat he would call them
relational realities, becausehumility is saying God, I need
(21:18):
you and faith is saying God, Itrust you.
And in that engagement withJesus you get.
You get all the new covenant,you get all of his grace.
That is what it looks like toabide, you know, to stay
connected with him is to keep inthis position where, like I
know, I need him and that'sgoing to depend on him, which
(21:42):
describes a really, you know,neat relationship with God.
And then what we get out of itis this united closeness where
we get everything that he cangive.
Every blessing that heavencould give is ours in Christ.
That's beautiful, do youremember?
I?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
love that.
That analogy I remember.
I remember him teaching that.
Yeah, yeah, I remember when Bobwould teach that it was, it was
significant.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
You know no one would ever accuse Bob of being the
most dynamic speaker, but he wasincredibly good at those those
explanations that would click inyour mind to help you
understand something, and that'swhat I appreciated most about
(22:34):
his ministry.
If anyone ever wants to go backand look at his stuff, living
in Christorg is his website andI think it still has a number of
his teachings and including theentire Bible college course
called growing in grace.
So 31 hours of content rightthere.
If you want to dig in thatliving in Christorg.
Certainly my ministry has beencompletely formed by and modeled
(23:03):
after, kind of how I learnedabout grace from him, who was
the most impactful pastor inyour life.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That's a really good question.
There are a few pastors thathave deeply influenced me.
One I mentioned already, BrianBrodersen.
I grew up under Joe Foch'sverse by verse, Bible teaching
on Sunday nights and Wednesdaynights when I was 1617 years.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
He's in Philly or is he in New Jersey?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
He's at Cabbage Apple Philadelphia, which is about 35
minute drive from where I lived.
My dad was a huge influence onme and my dad was very practical
and a really good kind ofoffset to some of the more
(24:06):
ethereal kind of teachings thatwere out there that I was
getting but not really likeworking it into real life.
My grandpa deeply influenced mylife, really emphasizing like
scripture memorization.
Yeah, I think those individualsand then you know, I think the
(24:28):
thing that's funny about BobHoekstra's ministry is that is
just the level of impact that hehad was profound and he really
dialed in some specific, somespecific teachings.
He taught those over and overagain to Bible college students
(24:48):
and I went on after Biblecollege to run Bible colleges
and would continue to getstudents that would transfer
from the campus in Marietta andthey would say, well, like you
know, they would just talk aboutthe impact that Bob had had on
their life.
So it has always impressed mejust the fruitfulness of his
(25:14):
teaching.
There's something to be saidthere in terms of legacy and,
yeah, I am shocked that he wasfrankly boring in his teaching
style but more fruitful than anyother teacher I had in Bible
college.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I would say the exact same thing.
I fell asleep in his class.
I'm not joking, it was at twoo'clock in the afternoon and
you're a Bible college studentand you had a lot going on.
But it was also kind of amazingin his class because you don't
know when the message of gracein the New Covenant will just
(25:59):
knock someone out and just theywould get the aha moment and you
don't know which part it wouldbe.
But you could just sit andwatch, like sit in the back, and
you would just get someone tobe like oh, I get it now, and
there would be like an audibleexplanation or you know, it's
just watching people get pickedoff by a sniper.
It was like that's how I thinkof Bob Hope, because it was
(26:22):
class, because it was I don'tknow what it was Like for me.
I know the exact moment is whenhe said if you think being a
Christian and growing insanctification is about trying
harder, I have great news foryou.
It's actually the opposite.
It's about learning to rest inthe finished work of Christ and
(26:42):
sanctification is a free giftthat no one could earn.
But that's okay, because Godwas freely passing it out.
He was freely willing to giveus sanctification and that just
transformed my life.
I was so burdened by how do Ichange, how do I transform?
(27:03):
And I had seen some but I justdidn't know how it worked and I
wanted to analyze it and knowhow it worked and to have a
simple explanation of abiding.
Christ, through humility andfaith and grace, is yours.
His grace comes, flows intoyour life and it was just so
freeing and has been kind of thefoundation of my ministry for
(27:25):
25 years church planting andwhatever else I've been able to
be a part of.
So it's been really, reallypowerful and impactful.
So well, let's move into today.
Yeah, what do you got going onand how is ministry going and
what are you excited about?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Wow, that's a good question.
So I was really impacted by theMissional Movement, which was
the idea of living as amissionary in your everyday life
, where you live.
And so when I moved toBaltimore, my spiritual hunger
(28:12):
and passion was I want to justlive as a Christian in a
neighborhood consistently andinvest right there and just try
to be as authentic in my faithas possible and man God, let me
really have a beautiful seasonof doing that and in the process
(28:34):
, both planting a church in aneighborhood called Fells Point
and it is not an easy place toplant a church.
There have been a number ofattempts to plant churches in
Fells Point and God hasgraciously sustained us.
He's given us church partners.
There's about four other largerchurches that financially
(28:57):
support us, and my church iscomposed of a broad
socioeconomic range of people.
And in the process of plantingour church, I was looking for a
building and found out thatthere was a relief center in our
(29:20):
neighborhood that's owned bythe Lutherans, the Lutheran
Mission Society and they werelooking for a change, a
different way of doing theirministry, and so I was looking
for a building.
They were looking for adirector of the center, and so
it was a trade.
I came in as the new directorand they let us use the building
(29:43):
to plant the church out ofinitially, and it was a blessing
in disguise, it became a goodlaunching point to introduce
myself to the neighborhood.
Instead of just coming in andsaying I'm starting a church,
come to my church, I was able tosay, hey, I run a relief center
and I'm a pastor, and so itmade it very clear like I'm here
(30:04):
to help, I'm here to providerelief, I'm here, and it was
very it was.
You know, look, I didn'tstrategically look for that type
of ministry, but it shouldn'thave been surprising, because I
had done relief type work orwork with vulnerable people
groups many times before, and soI run this relief center.
(30:31):
That now, since the beginning ofCOVID so 2020, probably in
April 2020, we started pickingup food from local warehouses in
a box truck and we that thequantity of food has grown.
So we now feed about 1500households every week on three
(30:52):
different days Tuesdays, fridaysand Saturdays.
We distribute about a milliondollars worth of food every
month and we now have so muchfood that comes in or is
entrusted to us that we now pushit out to 32 other food
pantries around the city andthat network is called the Food
(31:15):
Access Coalition, which I leadalong with a guy named Matt
Stevens, and it's so it runsparallel.
We don't run hostile to thelocal government.
We work kind of in alongside ofthe planning department of
Baltimore City.
We don't not depend on them forany resources, but we're not
trying to thwart them in any oftheir efforts either, and we're
(31:36):
trying to make Jesus knownthrough loving our neighbors, by
providing for their physical,physical needs.
So that's what my ministrylooks like.
I gather a smaller congregationon Sunday and trying to grow a
church locally and kind of happywith where it's at and praying
(32:01):
that more people want to have arelationship with Jesus in a 10
to Sunday morning service andthen all week receiving food in.
In fact, there may be somebackground noise here in a
little bit, because our truckwill show up here at our center
where I'm recording this from,and there my drivers, latino,
(32:24):
got awesome volunteers that areLatino, they're joyful, they're
loud, they scream in Spanish ateach other because they love
each other so much.
It's a lot of fun.
So that's what my life lookslike.
That's what ministry looks likeright now, and so I'm going
through a season personally.
So I feel like I called me andgifted me to pastor, which I've
(32:46):
enjoyed, and many people kind ofwho knew me watched me plant
Haven City Church and they feltlike man.
That is the most human I'veever seen you be Like.
You're just really flourishing,which is an awesome testimony
to God's grace.
But I'm also going through aseason where I'm seeing how
living out my faith means.
(33:09):
It means doing things that arereally practical, like starting
businesses and and hiring peoplein my church to work in those
businesses.
So I had a media company for awhile.
Where I was, I was making alittle bit of money, but most of
(33:29):
the jobs I was getting I wasjust passing them off to people
in my church, because I have alot of people in my church that
are struggling financially.
So I think that's exciting.
To me, 2024 is really a seasonof kind of having a portfolio,
recognizing that God's work inmy life manifests itself
sometimes as a relief center,sometimes as pastoring the
(33:52):
church, sometimes running asuccessful business, sometimes
as coordinating, you know, anetwork of churches that are
distributing food to people whoare vulnerable, and sometimes
it's a one off effort where it'sjust like, hey, let's, let's do
this thing this one time, andso that's plus.
It's a lot to have seven kidsthat are all teenagers.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I understand.
I have six boys, oldest being21, he's turned 21 on Saturday,
you got it and 21, 20, 19, 19,18, and 16.
All boys, oh Lord, it's.
It's a lot.
Last question here for me Tellme about your team.
(34:41):
What does your team look likethat surrounds you?
And how do you, how do youteach them to do ministry by
grace, the way that BrianBrodersen taught you?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
That's a really good question.
So my team, 90% of my team Ihave to talk to them through a
translator or through atranslation in messages, because
they speak Spanish and I speakno Spanish, and so walking in
(35:17):
the new covenant for me rightnow means that I am in, I'm
trusting that God has theirdiscipleship story in his hands
and that their spiritualformation is not dependent on my
capacity to communicate withthem, and so most of my team is
(35:41):
volunteers here that speakSpanish, in our relief center
and then in my church.
I think the way that God'sgrace is evident and hopefully,
that the training in my life isthat we're we are pulling from
every possible discipleshipschema that's out there, right,
(36:09):
every kind of differentChristian influence or or tribe
that's out there is.
Basically, we're crammedtogether in a church.
You have black, filipino,latino, white, poor, wealthy.
We got people that drive inwith their outies and push their
shopping homeless shoppingcarts in, people that are
mentally ill, people that are,you know, killing it in their
(36:31):
jobs and doing really well, andin that setting, I think that
you know my conversation aroundthe communion table is like this
cup that we're going to sharehere.
This is the, the new covenantand it represents this grace
that is enabling us not just todo overt Christian acts of
(36:52):
evangelism or discipleship orattending church or volunteering
a church, but it is the graceto do normal Monday and normal
Tuesday, go into our week and tointo just our native
environments and to live out afruitful, a fruitful life where
the things that we're studyingright now, we're going through
(37:14):
the sermon now, this stuffbecomes just, it overflows.
It's just, it's our nativetongue, that we love people that
are difficult to love, that wehave a different sexual ethic,
that we have a different way ofunderstanding values and what's
valuable, because we live inthis, this the kingdom of heaven
(37:36):
okay, I lied.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
One more question yeah, what book has been most
impactful for you recently?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
hmm, that's a tough one yeah, I would say I
definitely come back to.
There's two books.
Let me pull them up here on myon my kindle app.
One of them is anti rights book, about being after.
(38:21):
It's called after you believe,and he wrestles with okay, now
that you're saved, what do youdo?
What does it mean to live outthe Christian life?
And I appreciate the way thathe wrestles with that idea.
And so after you believe is onebook that has had a significant
(38:42):
influence.
And then let's see if you havea one here.
It's James Hunter Davis.
To change the world change theworld.
James Davison is James DavisonHunter is the author's name, and
(39:06):
he is a professor I think it'sat Yale, and so he talks about
what, what will change the world.
And I grew up in a Christianitythat was very much focused on
(39:29):
changing the world through likepolitics and that type of thing,
and he really advocates forChristians living out their
faith in very like normal,natural ways.
So you kind of I have a videoon my YouTube channel about this
(39:50):
, about how the world is changedthrough like philosophers,
ideas being popularized byeducate, educators and
entertainers, and then it'sadopted, those, those
philosophical ideas that arekind of propagated by
entertainers and educators, thenyou know the populace kind of
(40:13):
adopts those ideas.
They form the thinking ofsociety.
And then you have politiciansthat run in a democratic society
for office, and if they don'thold to what's already been
adopted as popular, they won'twin their position in office.
And what he says is like look,if you're, as a Christian, if
(40:34):
you're investing in politics,you're way downstream from where
culture is being shaped, and sowhat we need to be doing is we
need to replace our emphasis, gofurther upstream, realize that
we hold one of the greatestphilosophies.
We hold the greatest philosophy, and we need to articulate that
(40:54):
in a way that that is, that isattractive and wants to be
adopted by educators, andentertainers say that's kind of
like a condensed version of it.
So, yeah, both of those bookshad a pretty profound impact.
I think all my life, oh, justin the last couple of years cool
(41:16):
.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I love it, man.
That's really cool.
It makes me think back to theverse that we kind of brought up
at the beginning, which is acts2032, that Paul says I commend
you to God into the word of hisgrace, which is able to build
you up and give you aninheritance.
Paul was like that, you know.
He said I got this philosophy,I got a plan.
(41:37):
Now you guys run with it.
You know, all you need is isgrace, and to be able to
understand grace and be able tounderstand the realities for
yourself, be able to walk inthose realities and then be able
to, you know, reproduce thoserealities and people that you
can teach.
My goal is that there's arevival and revolution in the
(41:58):
church of understanding grace.
Not that people don't get it,but I think that there's
definitely confusion when, whenit comes to the sanctification
aspect of grace, everybody getsjustification.
You know that your, your sins,are forgiven by grace alone.
If you don't know that, you'rereally not even a Christian yet
(42:19):
because you can't earn, youcan't earn forgiveness and so.
But it's the, it's thetransformation.
How are we changed?
How are we transform?
How does sanctification happenwhen you just get that?
That is also the free gift ofgrace that it is able to build
you up.
Then it's like everything justkind of gets, gets unlocked for
(42:40):
for believers that I've seen.
So thank you for being a part ofspreading the message of grace
in the in the city of Baltimore.
You guys just got your heartsbroken in the NFL, so I'm sure
there's a lot of people ready toaccept Jesus so doing the work
(43:01):
of the kingdom.
I guess I don't know, but hebreaks my Broncos hearts every
day, so we'll see what happens.
Super, we're recording thislike a week before the Super
Bowl, but yes, it actually won'tcome out till after the Super
Bowl.
But I guess who you gonna pick.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
We'll lay it out KC or San Francisco yeah,
definitely KC yeah, yeah okay,yeah, that's definitely,
definitely my pick, just becausethat's my wife's pick and I
don't want to have any disunityin my home, my head my heart
(43:45):
says San Francisco, but my headsays Patrick Mahomes just ain't
going down, that's right.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
So try man.
Well, it's been awesome to talkwith you and to be united with
you.
You're an awesome brother inChrist.
Thank you for that.
I look forward to connectingmore with you and if we can do
ministry together, definitelylet me know.
But thank you, we'll go andwrap it up there.
It's been a good one.
We'll talk to you later.
(44:14):
Bye now thanks, john.
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