Podcast 32 – Why Are Food Memories So Powerful?

There is much to be said about the power of food memories: their ability to transcend time and space, their emotional evocation, and the desire to recreate them all impact who we are as humans and individuals. Watch on YouTube https://youtu.be/Cnq5Zb1atXo Oxford defines nostalgia as "a sentimental longing for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations". For me, there is perhaps no greater trigger of nostalgia than food and the smell of food. Food memories have played an integral role in who I am, and who Tara is, and serve as a strong foundation for Sip and Feast. But we are not unique in this respect, and while preparing for this episode we found there is a bit of science involved. Decoding food memories I recently read an article in the BBC about the power of food memories in which the author, Susanna Zaraysky, talks about the strong feelings experienced when eating the same berries she enjoyed as a toddler in the former USSR. She too was intrigued by the power of food memories and sought out Susan Krauss Whitbourne, professor of psychology at U Mass Amherst, to explore this a bit more. "Food memories involve very basic, nonverbal, areas of the brain that can bypass your conscious awareness. This is why you can have strong emotional reactions when you eat a food that arouses those deep unconscious memories. You can't put those memories into words, but you know there is something that the food triggers deep within your past", Whitbourne told Zaraysky. In this episode we discuss our own food memories, from Ziggy's Deli's Texas Style Chicken, to the smell of yeasty bread, and from fried zucchini to lemon Italian ices, and the power they have over us to this day. Resources Why food memories are so powerful BBC article Shrimp Fra Diavolo Recipe Spaghetti alla Nerano Recipe Hungarian Goulash Recipe Marinara Sauce Recipe Baked Chicken and Potatoes If you enjoyed the Why Are Food Memories So Powerful episode, leave a comment below and let us know!   We love your questions. Please send them to [e-mail] (remove the 11111 for our contact). There’s no question not worth asking. If you enjoy our weekly podcast, support us on Patreon and you will get 2 more bonus episodes each month! Thanks for listening! For a complete list of all podcast episodes, visit our podcast episode page.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
- Welcome back to the Sip

(00:01):
and Feast podcast, episodenumber 32, the Power
of Food Memories.
So, the question to get you warmed
up here, think about this.
You are wherever.
It doesn't matter whereyou are, you take a bite
of something, you are instantlytransported back in time.
It's the taste, but it's moreso the smell, right, Tara?

(00:24):
- I think it's a combinationof both that has the ability
to bring you back
and it kind of triggers a memory of,
maybe it's the first timethat you ate that food,
but you can clearly see
where you are, who is with you.

(00:44):
Maybe it actuallyconjures up other smells.
'cause I find that sometimes happens.
I can remember a smell,
but it has to be activated by ano,
by a taste or another smell. It's
- Very interesting how something just
hits you like a ton of bricks.
Mm-Hmm. . So for me, like,
and we'll go, we're gonna goover a bunch of them today,

(01:05):
a bunch of, uh, differentones that we have.
Uh, ones that like really always stand.
They like stand the test of time with me.
Anytime I'm making say,zucchini I'm brought back to
in a specific way, I'm broughtback to my grandmother.
It's just like that.
It's so transforms me.

(01:27):
And then once you get transformed,
then you actually start remembering
what you looked like at thetime, what you were doing. You
- Can remember the sunlight.
Yeah. Shining in the room.It's so powerful. Think it
- Truly is.
It's, it's, uh, has to dosomething with, uh, the science
of the brain and howwe store these memories

(01:47):
and how they kind of get locked away.
And then they, you know,they're in a vault, I guess.
And then they don't comeoutta the vault until
the smell like opens the vault.
Yeah. It's, it's a very, very odd thing.
- There is science behind it.
And honestly, one could do an entire
dissertation on the subject.

(02:07):
So we're not gonna get intotoo much of the science
of it here.
Although, um, I dowanna say, you know, Jim
and I did read an article
that I thought was really interesting.
Um, it's, it was from the BBC
and it was called Why FoodMemories Are So Powerful.
In the article, theauthor who was from, um,

(02:31):
the former USSR, I forgetexactly where she was from,
but she talks about coming here.
I think that her familysettled in California,
and then at one point shewent back to, she went back
to Russia and she ate some
strawberries that were there.
Meanwhile, she's hadstrawberries in the US

(02:54):
but she had not eaten thesespecial types of strawberries
or other berries that werespecifically from that region
where she was an a toddler and an infant.
And it triggered all ofthese different memories.
And she shared thatinformation with her mom.
And her mom explained, well, you used
to eat these berries all the time when,

(03:15):
when you were a toddler.
And it's just, I guess thatkind of prompted her to,
to write this whole article,
which I think is really interesting.
And we'll definitely link here.
But one of the things, um,that she quotes in this article
is from a professor of psychology

(03:37):
at the University ofMassachusetts Amherst.
Her name is Susan Kraus Whitburn.
And she said, food memories involve very,
I'm gonna read this 'causeit's, uh, it's a quote.
Food memories involve verybasic non-verbal areas
of the brain that can bypassyour conscious awareness.

(03:58):
This is why you can have strongemotional reactions when you
eat a food that arouses thosedeep unconscious memories.
You can't put those memories into words.
But you know, there is something
that the food triggersdeep within your past.
The memory goes beyond the food itself
to the associations youhave to that long ago.
Memory, whether with a place or a person,

(04:20):
because food memories form,without any conscious editing,
they take on all the attributes
of the situations inwhich they were acquired.
They also can become associated
with the activities involvedin the act of cooking.
The food, the chocolate cupcake,
a close family member taught you
to make when they were young, became part
of a larger experience with that person.

(04:41):
Your recollection of familymeals similarly take on
additional emotional meaningthat then become associated
with those smells and tastes.
There's a little bit of thescience, they're not too much,
but it's a good explanation I think of,
of why we feel the way wedo when we eat certain foods
or smell certain things.

(05:03):
Right. The things that wesmell doesn't just have
to be food.
It can be perfume.
The smell of moan grass.
- Absolutely.- In the, in the summer.
- Yeah. You can like smellsunshine. You can smell, yeah.
The ocean, the sand, um, the forest,

(05:24):
like the breeze on the lake.
- Mm-Hmm. .- I
really, uh, thought that was good.
How, how you set that upthere. I love your voice.
You have an excellentpodcasting voice. .
You should maybe think about doing,
doing that one of these days.
- I'm available if anybody'sinterested. .
- She's got a better voice than me.

(05:44):
Um, it's same mike,
but her voice just comesthrough a lot better. I
- Think you have a great voice. Well,
- Thank you.
Thank you. I I have my greentea right now to, uh, you know,
you're supposed to drink something warm.
Mm-Hmm. to helpyou. Mm-Hmm. .
Yeah. And it, and it helpsimmensely. Yeah. All right.
So now that we did the introhere, let's actually talk about
specific memories for us.

(06:06):
Yeah. And I have a feelingwhen we discuss these, maybe
these stories, these memories will
snap you back in time.
Mm-Hmm. ortransport you back in time.
That's the better way to say it.
- I like am already getting emotional
because I know like someof these memories that,

(06:26):
like the food brings up for me,
makes me feel nostalgicfor my time as a kid.
Yeah. So I'm already getting like,
choked up at the anticipation of TikTok
- .
I can, I, I can tell you are.
And, uh, that's, that's, Ithink that's very touching.
Uh, I am not getting emotional yet,
but I do have a little twitch in my eye,
so don't mistake thatfor getting emotional.
- I've had a twitch in my lefteye since before Christmas.

(06:49):
This is, we're recordingthis on New Year's Day,
but I feel like the lack of sleep
and just feeling stressedleading up to the holidays,
I just, my eyes justbeen twitching nonstop.
- My eyes actually improvedduring the holidays.
I have bad eyes because I spend
10 hours plus a day lookingat a computer screen, which is
not good for anyone.

(07:10):
We're society. We all have to do this now.
It's, it's nice to have oneof the non-tech related jobs
where you don't haveto look at the screen.
But anyway, I had a numberof days off during, uh, this,
this time, this, this holiday period.
And it, my eyes were ableto improve. That's good.
That's, that's it.
And in a nutshell, likeI went to an eye doctor.
He's, uh, person's like,

(07:30):
gotta stop looking at the screen so much.
Well, I'm like, well, how do I,
I I really can't do that. Yeah.
- It's really- Hard. I got reading glasses from him.
I digress. Which, let's gointo the memories. Okay.
First memory for me, thesearen't in any particular order.
I have like 50 of these,
but these were ones thatreally stand the test of time.

(07:52):
So there is this barbecuesauce, this barbecue sauce.
The name of the barbecuesauce is open pit.
Many of you will know. Openpit right away when I say that.
Many of you won't. Tara,did you know o do you know
what open pit is beforeI told you about it?
- No,- No.
- I probably had it. I justdidn't know what it was.

(08:12):
- So Open Pitt has this distinctive taste,
tangy vinegary taste.
Uh, I think the bottle saysit's a Kansas City barbecue
sauce, I think, but I might be wrong.
Anyway, it's a barbecuesauce that is a popular
barbecue sauce in delis, longIsland, delis, New York delis,
I would assume delisin Westchester as well.

(08:36):
It's probably because it's on the trucks
of the food distributors likeDe Carro and places like that.
Re Restaurant Depot probably stocks it.
Any deli I've ever been to, it's open pit.
But when I was a kid rightdown the street from me,
I was blessed to have a deli.
So the deli's name was Ziggy's Deli.

(08:57):
And it also then switched to,uh, uh, bridge Street Deli,
because Bridge Street is the intersection,
the intersected street where I grew up on,
and same owners I think and everything.
And it was just like, kind of in almost
like a residential development.
'cause all I would have todo is ride my bike down down
to the end of the street, make a right,
hit a cul-de-sac, jump through there.

(09:17):
And then I hit like,kind of like a main area.
There was like a seven 11
and a whole bunch ofstores and everything.
But this deli, which is nowwhere Dunkin Donuts was there,
and me
and my friends, you know,from when we were young,
we would always ride our bikes there.
And we would pick up heroes.
And the two heroes that wewould have the most were
the Texas style chickenand the hot cheesy beef.

(09:40):
So the Texas style chicken is
the one with the barbecue sauce.
It's a chicken culet,
like a good breaded chicken culet pounded
flat, nice big culet.
Uh, the good hero rolls
that are available everywherein, in the New York area.
You know, the bread andthen mozzarella cheese
and this barbecue sauce.
Really, really simple.
But just the combinationof these was just amazing.

(10:02):
I have a friend, uh, James,
and you know, he still,I still talk to him.
He messages me and he's like,
when are you gonna make a video for, uh,
the Texas style chicken ?
So it's like, it's been inour consciousness forever,
but anytime I have thatbarbecue sauce, it sends me
back in time to riding a bikewhen I was 11 years old with,

(10:23):
with my brother who was nine.
And you know, my friends and getting
that Texas style chicken.
The reason the memory gotunlocked the other day is
because we got heroes fromthis place called Seaport Deli.
Seaport Deli is the most famousdeli in all of Long Island,
or one of the most famous guy Fieri.
Went there for Diners, drives and Dives.

(10:43):
It's right where we livenow. It's a wonderful deli.
It's been there for likeabout 70 years, I believe.
They got pictures dating backto the fifties or sixties,
and I got a sandwich from them.
Amazing Sandwich. They have some
of the best heroes of any place.
And right when I bit that sandwich,
because it had barbecue sauce on it.
Mm-Hmm. , I wastransported back in time.

(11:05):
- I love that. You know
who I think would like that sandwich? Sam.
- Sam. Yeah. - She loves barbecuesauce on everything. It's
- Such a simple sandwich becausethe sandwiches at Seaport
Deli are anything but simple.
So this is the, this is therecent hero that I got. Mm-Hmm.
. Like theSeaport Deli one had like
all the stuff that I hadon the Texas style chicken,

(11:27):
then it had like sweet potato fries
and like German potato salad .
And just, I mean, these heroesare, they're, they're so big
and they're such a good value.
Like when you take a bag fromthere, like four heroes. Yeah.
You need, like, you need help to hold
that bag to get outta there. If
- You go there, you might look
and be like, why am Igonna spend $16 for a hero?

(11:48):
Trust me, when you getthe hero or the sandwich
or whatever it is that you get, you get it
like three meals out of it.
Yeah. So it's, you'renot really spending $16
- .
Yeah. I love this place.And they have, um,
they like have like famous I think
players baseball players Right.
And who've gone there. And
so the sandwich is named after them.
They have like local politiciansand stuff. Well, they

(12:12):
- Had a local firefighter.
- Firefighter, yeah.
- Yeah. I don't know. I don't think
they named anything after a
- Politician.
Who, who was the firefighter?Was that the Jacob deGrom?
- No, it's something.
- Was that a baseball? That's a baseball
- Player.
Jason. Jason and Matt'sor something like that.
Jason and Matt's. But yeah, a lot of the
sandwiches are named after Yeah.
Local people, which is pretty cool. Yeah.
- So that's my memory. What's yours?
- Okay. So one of my triggering memories

(12:34):
is my, my grandmother's salad dressing.
So when I say my grandmother,I mean my dad's mom,
she passed away whenI was in second grade.
So I was really little. Um,
but her salad dressing, well,
I don't still not 100% sureeverything that was in it.
Every time I taste something,Like I, I think I've kind

(12:58):
of nailed her salad dressing .
I've tried so many different times.
Whenever I taste somethingthat tastes like her salad
dressing, it transportsme back to her kitchen.
And I can remember how she smelled.
I can remember how her brastrap would always like fall

(13:18):
down her, her shoulder.
Like I'm just transported to that.
And I'm actually like,transported in such a way that
when I'm envisioning myselfthere, I'm seeing myself
through like a child's eyes.
Mm-Hmm. Like, I'm imaginingthe room around me,
but not through an adult's eyes,but through a child's eyes.
Which is so strange and interesting. It's,

(13:41):
- Yeah, it's like out of body's in
- Experience. It's, it really is.
- It's like when you die, whenyou're on the operating table
and you're looking downat the doctor's operating
- On you.
Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.And actually I think this was
one of the recipes
that I would really liketo include in the cookbook.
Again, she never wrote arecipe down or anything,

(14:03):
but I've worked through the years to try
and now her, the tasteof her salad dressing.
- Well, we've spokenabout this in the past.
I believe it was probablysimilar to the way, um, say like,
Luso in Smithtown makes their dressing.
Mm-Hmm. do, do you,
does it taste similar to that?
- Um, sort of, because
- Luso, I'm, I thinkthey're using vegetable oil.

(14:25):
Yeah. Not olive oil. Definitely.And white vinegar. Mm-Hmm.
, uh, really simple.
Uh, I think those onions are blanched
that go in the salad. Yeah.
- She was definitely notusing extra virgin olive oil.
I think she was using maybea mixture of olive oil
and then maybe some othertype of oil to neutralize it.
Or not to neutralize it,but just to save money.

(14:46):
- Vegetable oil didn't havea stigma back then. Yeah.
Vegetable oil was thepredominant oil that was used.
And even if you look at old,it's true Italian cookbooks
that were written for Americain the, you know, fifties,
sixties, seventies.
It's all, it's
vegetable oil, everything.Mm-Hmm. .
- Yeah.- Or Crisco.
- Well, what I would like to do is,
and it's something that I'vebeen doing the past couple
times, I've made salad dressing.

(15:08):
I've been cutting the extravirgin with avocado oil. Hmm.
- Because that's a neutral oil
- To neutralize it a little bit.
Yeah. And I think that I,
I like it better that way actually.
Yeah. Which is kind of weird. The
- Olive oil, like, I mean,the vegetable oil stigma is a,
is a new thing for sure.
We know that from a lot of thecomments we get, uh, people

(15:28):
y younger pe younger cooks,people who are starting
to learn for the first time.
I, when I say younger cook,
I mean someone who's likefive years of cooking.
Uh, everything they're learning now.
Everything they're being told is from a,
is a new generation Mm-Hmm.
Of instruction. So if they,they're not exposed to any of
that old cooking styles
or cookbooks, it's willwill be very far into them.

(15:50):
Mm-Hmm. .Yeah. Yeah. Alright,
let's move on to the next one. All
- Right.
What's your next memory? Jim
- Shrimp.
Fra Diablo. So I did a video
for this one when I started the channel.
It, we're gonna do another one.
Uh, if you wanna really laugh,
I recommend you watch the video.
I have the ponytail,massive hair in that video
and just, um, ,I either look ridiculous

(16:12):
or awesome, depending on,
- You look like KeanuReeves, like Brother .
It's maybe like a little shorter. You're
- Like, you look like shorter and fatter.
Bizarre. Keanu Reeves. Yeah.. Thanks Tara. You're
- Welcome.
.
- Um, yeah. No, I had thehair. The hair was long.
But anyway, that video,uh, forget about the hair.
It's not, it, it's when Ifirst started making videos.

(16:35):
So the audio and thevideo quality aren't up
to snuff, I would say.
So anyway, getting backto the memory here.
Shrimp Fried Diablo.
I have a very intimate relationship with.
So when I was young, we didn't go
to many restaurants when I was a kid.
And I think that myexperience was probably, was,

(16:56):
was quite similar to many ofthe people that are listening
to this terror who are,who are around our age.
Probably there were lessrestaurants back then. Mm-Hmm.
than there are now. Yeah.
- Definitely. At least- From what I
- Remember anyway.
At least in Long Island. I mean,
we grew up in long on on Long Island.
In Long Island, whicheveryou wanna say, . Yeah.
Um, we weren't, we didn'tgrow up in the city

(17:18):
where there were obviouslymore restaurants,
- But evens, if you grew upin the city, you would've had
to have been a wealthy family to
- Experience that.
Yeah. Go to the tavern on thegreen, things like that. Yeah.
I, yeah. No, I mean, where I grew up,
I grew up in Farmingdale.
We rarely went to a restaurant. Yeah.
In fact, my parents rarelywent to restaurants.
And if they did, it wasusually for their anniversary.
And they would either go to,um, a Chinese restaurant,

(17:42):
which was in Farmdalecalled the Lotus Garden,
or they would go to Francesco's
or Bella Napoli.
I think Francesco's was inFarmingdale, maybe Beth Page.
It was like Right, right,right there on the border.
And Bella Napoli was on Route 1 0 9. Yeah.
In Farmingdale. I don'tthink it's there anymore.

(18:03):
- I don't even rememberthe place that I had it.
But my story essentiallyis, that was the first dish
when I was 10,
or maybe eight, I would say like eight,
maybe, maybe a little bit younger.
That was the dish that Ialways wanted to order. Mm-Hmm.
as a kid. And, you know, my,
my parents let us, let me
and my brother orderfrom the big, you know,

(18:25):
the, the adult menu.
And that was the one.
And I always, now even to this day,
every time I have shrimpDiablo, whether I make it
or I don't really orderit at restaurants, it just
zooms me back to when I was a kid.
Mm-Hmm. ordering it.
And like, my dad would be like, is
that spicy enough for you?

(18:46):
Uh, do you want more spice in there?
Because it was like, it waslike, oh, you, you know,
you're young, you'regonna try the spicy dish.
Mm-Hmm. .Which, you know, admittedly,
there's no, there's reallyno spicy Italian food.
Yeah. Italian food is not spicy.
Even the most spicy food,the collabion stuff is

(19:07):
tame compared to other, othercuisines like Thai and Indian.
And, uh, I'm not telling you
probably anything you don't know.
But back then, I think myfamily's tolerance anyway
for spice was a lot less.
To this day, my mom thinkstoo many chili flakes are
are are too spicy. Sometimes
- Black pepper's a littletoo spicy for her. Yeah,

(19:28):
- Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. So, so I was like adventurous.
They thought I was adventuroushaving the shrimp fry the vo.
But anytime I have it now I am, uh,
I'm transported back immediatelybeing that little kid
wanting to order fromthe big person's menu.
- Nice. I like that one.- What do you have?
- So I have, and this is more of,
I guess a smell than a taste.

(19:52):
This is yeast. So anytime I smell yeast,
like when I'm about tomake, like, I make the,
those dinner rolls thatI use yeast for, um,
whenever I have a smell thatyeast kind of like mixed
with the flour and the water
or whatever liquid itis that I'm using, it

(20:13):
transports me back to this one day.
In particular when I was little,
I really think I must have been three
because I don't thinkmy sister was born yet.
My sister, uh, my sisterand I are four years apart.
So there was this one day where my mom,
she would occasionallymake this oatmeal bread

(20:33):
and she had to use yeast for it.
And I remember her like prepping the dough
and then putting it in front of the window
with a towel over it.
And then I remember like,we, we left out the back door
and we walked around andwent through the gate,
and then we walked to this park that was
around the block from my house.
And it was like a beautiful summer day.

(20:55):
But I can really remember like
the sun hitting theside, like the side gate
of our house as we were leaving.
And I remember like thinking,oh, when we come back,
we're gonna get to have this bread.
Yeah. 'cause she did, like,
my mom was very good explaining things
to me when I was that age.
You know, she would say, Tara, we're gonna

(21:15):
do this because of this.
- And you were a good listener. Yeah.
- No, I, I think I was a good listener.
I think I always have been.
I enjoy listening to peoplemore than I enjoy talking.
Um, which makes me kind of agood match for you, .
- That's right.- But anyway, I, I love
that smell of yeast.
Um, it just

(21:38):
- Transports me.
I love that smell. I lovethat smell too. Yeah.
- And you know, my dad shared with me
that he also loves that smell. I
- Think it's a great, you know,I think it's a primal smell.
So it is. I know likeyeast has been created for
all of modern homo homo sapiens time.
Mm-Hmm. whetherby accident originally
and then eventually usedproperly to make bread

(22:02):
and to ferment.
Mm-Hmm. , uh,
what was the first typeof alcohol, honey? Right.
- Well, honestly, I don't meat.So meat is fermented honey.
But I think the Egyptians invented beer.
- They invented beer. And I
- Think beer might be older than meat.
Yeah. But I don't know.I'm not a food historian.
Although I, I wish I was.

(22:23):
'cause I think that would be an
awesome type of thing to study.
But I don't know. SoI'm just kind of Yeah.
- But the, but the process of using yeast,
harnessing yeast Yeah. Is a primal.
- It is. It's the sameas like, it's the same
as like smelling meat,cooking over a fire.
Oh yeah. Like, that's primal.
It helps something that primal part of the
- Brain.

(22:43):
Let me ask you something about that,
a little bit of tangent here.
So we have a, we havea good amount of vegan
and vegetarian listeners.
Yeah. So what do you think about that?
You say the meat is a primal smell now
for vegan and vegetarians.
Is that's something that,does that affect them
that primal smell or not?
Or do you think it's liketheir rational brains override

(23:06):
that primal urge? So
- I can only speak for myself.
So I spent a great deal of time
during my younger years as a vegetarian.
Right. Um, in fact, I haveanother memory that kind
of ties into this in a little bit.
But, um, we became vegetarianswhen I was eight years old.

(23:29):
My mom read Fit for Life byHarvey and Marilyn Diamond.
And we, she decided that our family would,
would no longer consume meat.
Um, so from the time Iwas eight until probably
the time I was in high school

(23:50):
and started sneaking chicken sandwiches
or chicken nuggets from theschool cafeteria, um, I can say
that for me, I constantly
craved meat.
If I would go to a friend'sbarbecue or family's barbecue,
and I would smell it, it smelled amazing.

(24:10):
I would see commercialson TV for like cold cuts
and I would just want tojump through the screen
and eat the meat. Now I
- Don't, this video is notsponsored by the meat council.
- It's not, I, I don't know,like if, if there's any truth,
scientific truth to this,
but I, I've heard thatthere are certain, um, diets

(24:33):
for your blood type,
and I am type O type O's
apparently are the originalblood type of humans.
And they need a more, um,like more like a paleo diet
where there's a lot ofmeat, there's berries,
seeds, things like that.
Um, so I don't know if it's
because of my blood type, I think,

(24:53):
or if it's because just I,
- Is that really based on science though?
I think, I don't know. That's the,
that sounds like a bunchof gobbly. Good. I've,
- You know, I've, I'veheard, I've heard that.
And I think type ab islike the newest blood type
and they're better suitedwith a vegetarian diet. We
- Need more, we need moreOleg over here. Yeah.
- . So
- That's the universal blood that you, uh,
have in hospital for anybody. So

(25:15):
- I, I'm only answering formyself as a former vegetarian
that I constantly craved it.
Now, I think it would beinteresting to hear from some
of our vegan or vegetarian listeners if
you do have those cravingsand what you do to kind of I
- Am, I am interested in that.
So yeah. If, if that isyour, uh, your lifestyle,

(25:37):
and I, again, the reason I mentioned it,
because I know there area good amount that are,
please leave a comment, let us know.
And also for all of you,please like, and share this
and subscribe, not just hear on YouTube.
If you're watching this,if you are watching this

(25:58):
subscribe on Apple or Spotify,
whichever is your preferredpodcast listening source,
you'll get notified there.
We release them the exact same time.
So basically it mattersif you're, you know,
if you're in a car, you'llprobably wanna listen.
Uh, versus if you're home,maybe you're watching.
But that really helps us out.
If you give ratings to this on Apple

(26:18):
or Spotify, that also helps us out.
Mm-Hmm. , thisis something that Tara, well,
I can only speak for myself.
This is something that Ireally love doing and Right.
It's, we're in episode number32 today, so it's 32 weeks.
I, I kind of enjoy doing this more
so than making the cooking videos.

(26:39):
That doesn't mean we're, we're,
we're con we're we're continuingon the cooking videos.
Do not worry about that.But I, I don't know.
I I really like doing this. Doyou, what do you think, Tara?
- I think it's certainly,I think it's easier than
making a cooking video.
There's less that can go
- Wrong. Go
- Wrong, I guess.
Yeah. I mean, when we'redoing this, it's just,
it really is like, we'rehaving a conversation.

(27:00):
Like, I mean, maybelike you're a little bit
of a nicer version of yourself.
No, I'm kidding. But no, when,
when we're in this podcastroom recording our podcast,
we're having a real conversation.
So many times we'll be in our office
and we'll have conversations like this,
and then we're like, oh, thatshould have been a podcast.

(27:21):
Yeah. Because this is howwe are in real life. Yeah.
I mean, I'm, I'm actuallya little bit more sarcastic
off camera 'cause I can,
- There were a number .
- I try to be on good behavior.
- There were a number ofcomments for today's episode,
which was episode number31, which was, uh, the food,
- The food for- 2024 saw.
- I saw someone. Theywere, they mentioned.

(27:42):
They were like, I don't,I don't even wanna come
here to watch you two argue.
Yeah. Which I, I agree. I mean,
- Again, we're, we're not episode,
we're not in episode 320 here.
We haven't been doing it for seven years.
So we are kind of feeling this out.
I I will tr try to, I'mtrying to be honest here is,
this is our normal kindof conversation there.

(28:04):
Probably as, as Tara said though,
there's a little bit more sarcasm involved
- Yeah. In real life. Yeah.
- Yeah. But anyway, I digress.
Please leave the reviews, the ratings.
A five star rating, not a,not a one star rating. Okay.
Enough of that. Let's goon to the next memory. All
- Right.
- Tell me, what is my next memory? Tara
- Fried zucchini. You put on your
- List.

(28:25):
Ooh, fried zucchini. Okay.
So this one transportsme quicker than anything.
So when I am frying zucchini
and I fry zucchini duringthe summer when I grow 'em,
or, you know, buy 'em fromthe store, they're abundant.
They're everywhere. WheneverI fry the disks in the olive
oil I for, for making,whether it's spaghetti murano

(28:45):
or just, just a simple fried zucchini,
it's just delicious inolive oil by itself.
Once they come out, A littlesalt on there. Mm-Hmm.
, I amtransported immediately back to
the basement kitchen my grandmother had.
And because she'd always be down there
like frying zucchini almost all the time.

(29:06):
I mean, I know that wasn'tthe only thing she made,
but if when I was a kid, itkind of felt that way to me.
Mm-Hmm. . Andwhat she would do is she would
fry 'em, maybe a little salt,
but often just a dusting of, uh, pecorino
or, uh, you know, Parmesancheese on, on there.
And then she would use them to make pasta,
but off often she would just take them
and then mix them in some eggs
for like a zucchini egg omelet.

(29:27):
Mm-Hmm. . Thatsounds like good, like scrambled
eggs with zucchini or maybe a
frittata or something like that.
But I, when I have zucchini,I am, I'm transported back.
Yeah, that sounds any type of frying too.
It's, I could even belike when I'm doing the
sticks and breading them. Yeah.
- Can you make that fordinner tonight? ?
- I'm secret. You wantthat, right? Yeah. Like,
- I want fried zucchini.
- Yeah.- Well, sounds

(29:48):
- So good.
Are you talking about just thefried zucchini or spaghetti
- Murano?
No, like spaghetti murano.Spaghetti murano. Yeah. Yeah.
- If you haven't had spaghetti Murano
make it, what are you waiting for?
It's a simple dish. You will love it.
- But your grandma didn't call it that?
No, she just called it,what did she call it?
Fried, she called zucchini pasta.
- Right. Fried zucchini. Uh, spaghetti.
- Spaghetti. Yeah. Because
- She didn't know the, shedidn't know the names of this.
You know, you gotta thinkabout like, these people,

(30:09):
they come here and theydon't have the names of it,
but they just, they
- Just know how to make it.
- They're just Yeah. They're,they know how to make it.
It's what their mothermade all the time. Mm-Hmm.
. Yeah. And, and that's it.
- So my next memory, um, involves
a lemon Italian ice.
And I'm gonna sharesomething a little fun fact.

(30:31):
So one of my favorite authors is Mike
Viking, or Viking.
He's Danish. So I don't knowif I'm pronouncing his last
name correctly, but I listenedto a bunch of his books.
He runs the Happiness Research Institute,
which is based in Copenhagen.
And he talks a lot aboutthe Scandinavian concept of

(30:55):
Hua, H-H-Y-G-G-E.
Again, not the best pronunciation.
He did put out a book a coupleof years ago called The Art
of Making Memories prior tothat book, in order for him
to conduct some of his research,he did a worldwide study
that he opened to all of his followers.
And I actually participated in the survey.

(31:15):
And one of the questionswas, um, to recall one
of your earliest childhoodmemories and to describe it.
So I described mine and itactually wound up in his book.
- Yeah. I'll put it right here so people
can see it Right in front of my head.
is that in focus, right?
It, it's always tries to grabmy eyes. Okay. That's why.

(31:36):
So that's why I had to cover my face.
- Yeah. So it made itsway into his book walk.
And this was a quote from my memory,
walking down the main streetin the town I grew up in
with my mom while eatinga lemon Italian ice.
So I say that
because when I have a lemon Italian ice
and it, I'm not talking likea Merino's Italian ice from

(31:58):
the grocery store.
I'm talking about anItalian ice from a pizzeria.
- Yeah. With the white cup- In a white Dixie cup. Yeah.
Okay. Those are the, that'swhat I'm talking about.
I am transported back to Farmingdale
circa 1981.
Maybe. I don't know. I was born in 1978,

(32:18):
so maybe it was that time.
I was really little. My momwould take me to Gino's Pizza
and I would always ask for an ice.
I would get an a lemon Italian ice.
And there used to be, Ithink it's still there,
like a little villagegreen in Farmingdale.
And they used to have a fountain.
I don't know if thefountain is still there,

(32:40):
but I remember the fountainbeing on, I remember the smell
of the water from the fountain.
And I remember it just beinga warm, beautiful summer day.
So when I taste thelemon Italian ice, that's
what I'm like immediately brought back to.
- Yeah. I mean ice, I, I thinkthe ices have, that's one
that you can easilytransport yourself back.
'cause a lot of those memoriesare during the summer. Yeah.

(33:02):
So like, whether it was like the truck
that would come around Yes.
That would have them. Um,or the p local pizzeria
or, or whatever.
They would have them. Imean, I remember like,
like the old days, theydidn't have a lot of flavors.
They had, uh, yeah, I think the place,
I think it was likepineapple, believe it or not.
Mm-Hmm. . The chocolate chip,
- You mean vanilla? Vanilla chip with the

(33:23):
- Chocolate chip vanilla chip.
Yeah. Mm-Hmm. lemon,
obviously. Mm-Hmm.
- Chocolate- And Chocolate.
- Cherry.- Cherry.
And that was like kind of itRainbow, rainbow rainbow. Yeah.
- Yeah. Those were the main flavors.
I think that's another thing we're
gonna include in the cookbook.
- Yeah. Well, how to make 'em. Yeah.
They're, I think they'refairly simple to do. Mm-Hmm.
. I think it'llbe, I think it'll be nice.

(33:44):
And that's what the cookbook will be.
We're kind of in this limbo state now.
We, we, I wish I could snapmy fingers and have it out,
but that's not, we don't wanna put out,
we wanna put out thebest product possible.
So it will be, it willtake a while to do. Yeah.
- Definitely. All right,Jim, next on your list is

(34:05):
the pool bag bar burger.
- Yeah. So pool bag.
Um, I don't know if you're listening,
if you worked in the city, uh,
what was it like in the thirties?
Murray Hill area? I say?I think so. Yeah. Yeah.
We went there for, for a few years until

(34:25):
it was gone.
I think the whole block wasbought by a developer. Mm-Hmm.
. And like a highrise was put up over there
and which is, you know,the history of the city
and it's just always doing that.
But this place had the smell
of this place when I would go in there
and I used to go there with,uh, people I worked with first.

(34:46):
That's how like I foundout at the bar, we,
we would get drinks and play pool,
but the burger they hadwas just, in my opinion,
it was the best burger in thecity at that period of time.
Everybody was sayingPatrick Kavanaugh's had
the best burger in the city.
Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.Now there's some other places,
and I'm like a time capsule of like
how the city was like inthe two thousands,
like the early two thousands.

(35:08):
Um, I'm, I'm sure PatrickKavanaugh is still there though,
but this place, pool bag,the burger was just so
juicy and the best ever.
And so now anytime we're at an Irish bar,
I always compare it.
Mm-Hmm. against that burger. Mm-Hmm.

(35:28):
. So I guessthe memory essentially is
when I'm in that, I like theIrish bars that we go to now.
Mm-Hmm. . AndI smell the bar, you know,
the beer on the floor
and you know, the little bit of, um, yeah.
Like stale, musty flavor,uh, flavor smell. It's
- A good musty smell.
- Musty smell a bar. Yeah.
And, but I will, once I likesmell a burger coming by,

(35:51):
it will always transport me back there.
What about you? What didyou think of that burger?
- I loved that burger. Itwas so good. I, I think
- Simple- Burger.
It was simple. And I thinkmore than the burger,
it was just like that feeling that like,
we would meet there, I thinkit was every Thursday we would
go there and we would play golden tea.

(36:13):
- Remember that? Oh yeah.Golden Tea. Another time
- Capsule.
Yeah. And we would play pool.
And the beer that we had whenwe were there was Sam Adams.
- Sam Adams. Yeah. Like,- I never,
I don't remember getting SamAdams anywhere else other
than that place.
But that was like the beerthat we would drink when
we, when we would go there. I
- Always remember there was two guys.
Do you remember those guys who were
always in there playing pool?
They would bring their pool sticks. Yeah.

(36:35):
- It was like, oh myGod, I forgot about that.
Remember that? Yeah. That guy.Yeah. That guy was serious.
- They were just like, these guys were
business, all business.
I mean, they, they worked, you know? Yeah.
They would come after work,but I forgot about that.
They had their sticks and, you know,
he would like take it outtathe pouch, unscrew it together
and, uh, yeah.
Yeah. Play against him.
I used to love beatinghim when I beat him.

(36:56):
- You didn't beat him. I
- Was good.
I I still am good, you know.
But no, I, I beat him occasionally.
I mean, most of the time he beat me.
But no, when I would, when Iwould get him, I mean, listen,
you know, clocks strikes12 twice a day, you know?
- Yeah, true. All right. So my, that
- Doesn't make, I don't like how you,
you threw me under the bus there.
I'm actually a good pool player. You know,

(37:18):
- We had a pool tablein our, in our old house
that the previous owner left there
for us. Oh God. Remember that?
- I mean, they left itfor us, didn't they?
This was, this is our,
like two houses ago we had this pool table
and we knew the previousowner, so we took it off them.
Yeah. But it was not, itdidn't fit in the room.

(37:39):
- It was in the living room.- So like, you couldn't,
it was like the Seinfeld episodewhere you would, you know,
you'd be like trying to, youhave to use like the mini stick
every time or like, gothrough the window. Yeah.
- No, but we, it was in our living room
and when we moved into thehouse, it was like right
before Sammy was born.
So we were using the pooltable to as like a changing,
- Changing table. That's what it was.
- And then we eventually,we had to pay Oh yeah.

(38:01):
AC company to come andtake the pool table apart
and move it into the basement
because there's, it's made with slate
or something like a fewdifferent pieces of slate
- That it's heavy table weighs like 600
- Cups.
Yeah. So it needed to beprofessionally disassembled
and then reassembled and
- Releveled.
Yeah. I mean, I could have done it all,
but IWI would've needed a, a hand,
I would've definitely need another person,

(38:21):
because the top is, it's inmultiple pieces, the top Mm-Hmm.
- .- Yeah. So it has to be shimmed.
So it's, but you can't have it
where it's like, where it just bumps
- In, right?
- Yeah. Yeah. And then it like needs
to be refuted and, Mm-Hmm.
- Just, you know.
Yeah. That was a, thatwas an interesting time.
But yeah, Sammy, Sammy had apool tables or changing table.
Um, okay. So my next memory, Jim, is,

(38:44):
was actually triggered recently,
I don't even know if you remember this,
but you had made Hungarian goulash.
Okay. And I took a bite of it
and I was like, oh my God,I've, I've had this before.
So, and it brought me back
and I'm like, I rememberhaving my mom make this.
So again, this must have beendefinitely before I was eight,

(39:07):
because that was whenwe became vegetarian.
But it brought me backto that period of time.
I haven't tasted anythinglike it since then.
And I did ask my mom, I waslike, did you make a beef stew
with like, peppers in it?
And because it, it, the,
the goulash is unlike reallyany other type of beef stew

(39:28):
that I've had in recent years. Yeah.
- It's not supposed to be stew.
- Have any I know it's notst I know it's not stew.
- How many people let us know it's
- Supposed beew.
I know. It's more like asoup. So my mom did say
that her grandmother, whowas my mom, was raised
by her grandmother thatshe used to use peppers
and onions in her beef stew.

(39:48):
So that I guess must'vebeen how my mom made it.
But that's what it tasted like.It tasted like that goulash.
Now I don't know if peppers,paprika pepper in it too.
My, my great
- The peppers itself, when you cook it
Yeah. Will will have that taste.
- My great grandmother was c check. Yeah.
So I don't know if it was, Idon't know if they use a lot
of paprika in the Czech Republic.

(40:10):
Yeah. I don't know. I, I, I don't know.
But it, your goulash tastedlike that beef stew. Hmm.
And it, I, I, I, like,
I hadn't tasted it in many, many years.
- Yeah. It's so nice when,when that happens to you
and you're like, I'vehad this before. Mm-Hmm.
- . Yep.- I got one more.
That is a real quick one.
But it definitely like unlocks.

(40:34):
That's the smell now.
So it's the smell of essentially
making a good marinara sauce.
So I was on, I cookedin from when I was young
and I was pretty proficient,
but I never was able to quiteget my food to taste like
that typical, uh, Italian

(40:57):
restaurant in New York circa 1980 or 1995.
Basically heavy on garlic, red sauce,
fair food, basically.
REOs, you know, that's what REOs is.
REOs is like the, you know,the most exclusive and one,
but all the places are thesame, whether it's Carmines, um,

(41:19):
and like La Palmer outhere in Long Island,
or Tony di Napoli in the city.
They're all, they're all thesame. The food is simple.
And I wanted this sauce to be, have
that super garlic flavor.
So I was kept, kept onexperimenting with it.
And at this time I was living in the city.
I was 21 or 22, like right out of college.

(41:42):
I, um, started doing well with my job.
So I was able to rent.
And I was on a six floorwalkup on the upper East side.
And I would make food there,
test out food while myroommate was eating can
of soup every night,or, uh, and tortillas,
- Toti, Tostitos,- .
He was like this guy, the,the amount of content he had

(42:04):
for me when I was cooking there,
it was like he would just look at me.
He had, he had his soup in his
plastic Tupperware thing. Well, you
- Could've eaten your food.
- I offered, I did offer. Yeah.
But he would just like,what are you doing, Jim?
What are you doing? Andeating the Tostitos.
But anyway, I was workingon my sauce during
that period of time, .
And I finally nailed it.

(42:24):
Like I put in like 15 cloves of garlic,
- Whole cloves,- Whole closs.
I think we went to La Palmerbef right before this. Yeah.
So I was like, noticing what they did.
And the trick is the garlic,when it, it can't just,
you see so much stuff.
Like, and these are like good chefs.
They're like, like, and I'mtalking like really good chefs.
They're like, don't letthe garlic get any color.

(42:45):
Don't burn the gar. Don't do listen.
If you know, you know whatI'm talking about, that's not
how you do food with red sauce.
Okay. You gotta actually puta lot of color on the garlic
and like, they'll put it on,they'll make it to the point
where it's almost likedarkish brown, but in the oil.

(43:07):
And I was putting like six,
seven tablespoons of olive oil in there.
And the garlic when it hit it,
and I would do the clove on both sides,
they were getting likesuper gold and toasty.
Mm-Hmm. . Thenwhen you put the tomatoes in
and they hit, and whenthose tomatoes hit the oil,
and I was just like,because up until that point,
I was like listening to thosereally supposedly good chefs

(43:28):
with three stars next to their name.
But once the garlic hit there
and the sauce hit the garlic,it was, it was an epiphany.
Mm-Hmm. the best sauce ever.
And then, you know, you had it right
after I did it. Well, it
- Tasted, it tasted like La Parma.
Yeah. It's like you finally figured out
how La Parma made their, Idon't wanna say marinara,
because they use it in everything.

(43:49):
They use it everyth itin their clam sauce.
They use it in their rabata.It's, it's always those whole,
- You know, what do- Garlic cloves
that are like almost burnt?
- And you know whatthey do, how they do it.
I noticed this, I was lookingin the back deep fryer.
I was not a deep fryer, butI was looking in the back of,
uh, I forget which place it was.
They had a bowl the size of
it was this big, it wasfilled with the garlic.

(44:10):
So it wasn't confi,
but it was Oh, thegarlic was already done.
In the oil. In the oil. Sowhat they do then, the start,
start, they just take a lace, lidle,
they throw it all in the pan.
So then whether they're doing clam sauce
or tomatoes or whatever Mm-Hmm.
That's how they do it. That's a good idea.
It's a great idea. Yeah.
So that's how, that's howthese restaurants, most
of them I assume are doing it.
Yeah. And, uh, it, itjust unlocked it for me.

(44:32):
So now that memory, everytime I have that smell,
when I get my garlic to thatstage, I am transported back
to Manhattan.
You know? Mm-Hmm. ,uh, 2000. What one? Yeah.
Right around there. Yeah. And that's it.
That's when ire, that's like really
when the epiphany happened.
Mm-Hmm. Priorto that, like in college,

(44:53):
I was making, like, I was doing well,
I was making good stuff for,for, for my friends, which was,
which is weird, you know, um,
like it was like three in the morning.
Um, but I didn't have thesauce nailed yet. Yeah.
I think I nailed itright then, right? Yeah.
- Yep. I- Remember in that old pre-war building,
when the power would go out,
it had fuses in the bottom.

(45:14):
It and the fuse box waslocated at the bottom of
this restaurant calledCafe Bun Gusto. Yep.
- You lived- . And I would have
to knock on the door for the restaurant.
I'd be like, my power wasout. I'm on the sixth floor.
And I would go in there and,um, I, I had the, I couldn't,
I didn't have fuses atfirst, so I would buy 'em.
So then I bought a bunch of 'em.
'cause it happened a few times. Mm,

(45:35):
- It did.
Yeah. It was aninteresting time. The Jim.
So one of the thingstalking about like, memories
and food, these two thingsthat I'm going to name
that we have recipesfor on our site, we get
so many comments from peoplethat like, they made this

(45:56):
and it brought them backto their aunt's kitchen
or their grandma's kitchen,
or these recipes seem tounlock most of the memories
for our followers, viewers, you know what,
however you wanna call yourself.
The first one is yourchicken and potatoes dish.
So I don't know what it is about it.
There's a lot of oregano, there's garlic,

(46:18):
there's something magical about that dish.
I think it's outrageously delicious.
But so many people say that, that someone
that they love who's nolonger here used to make that
and it transports them.
The other, the other recipes,
and I'm gonna say it's three
of them really are the delisalads, the potato salad,

(46:38):
the macaroni salad, and the coleslaw.
Those three deli style saladshave unlocked so many memories
for folks.
And they've, you know, they,they're always commenting.
They're like, I can't believe,
- Yeah,- This is it.
This is the one. It transported me.
- So they're both, Tara is spot on here.

(47:00):
And I would say, I'll go on, on a limb.
If we can nail the heroes hero bread
and the rolls, then thatone would probably be,
that would put us in like Hall
of Fame status. It would, those are,
- Those are gonna be hard.
Those are hard to nail. Yeah.
You have to go to Modern Bakery

(47:21):
and ask them for their recipe.
- No, it's, it's the way they're
baking them too in the oven.
I would have to like getour oven set up to do it.
So it would be a lot of testing.
And you know, the, theunfortunate reality is like,
I can't spend that much time on one thing.
Mm-Hmm. . I mean, I could,
and I feel like, I feellike we should get that.

(47:43):
Um, once you nail the hero,you'll have the, uh, it's,
it's like, you know, it's called a Kaiser,
but it's not a Kaiser, it's not,
- It's a soft round rollwith soft, with poppy seeds.
Yeah. It's not a Kaiser.
- Yeah. Like- You can't substitute one for the other
- . Yeah,
- That's right. You know, you just
- Can't.
So anyway, but yeah, as far as the chicken
and potatoes, that one is,

(48:05):
I think like everybody'sgrandmother made that dish.
Mm-Hmm. . And they all had
like, a little bit of variation.
Some would use more garlic or more onion.
I actually put onion and garlic in ours.
I put a lot of cheese in it too.
But the real trick, likethe game changer for
that recipe is the oil.
You gotta like make thechicken swim in oil. Mm-Hmm.

(48:25):
like, people willoften say, they'll be like,
are you sure this is recipe is correct?
I'm like, yeah, it is. You needa lot of oil for it. Mm-Hmm.
a lot of oil
and prob probably back then, grandma's
and Nona's weren't even using olive oil.
They were probably usingvegetable oil for it. Mm-Hmm.
. But, uh, I use olive oil.
And then as far as the, thesalads, the trick there,

(48:48):
and I didn't make it a hundredpercent replica of the delis.
The one thing that I wasmissing was the decorator mayo.
So the decorator Mayo is athicker version of Hellman's and
or whatever the Restaurant Depot brand is.
It's like the imitation helmets.
But it's a thicker mayo
because I'll, I'll notice likewhen I make it, so this is,

(49:09):
if you're, if you're into these salads
and you wanna make 'emperfect, you can buy
that mayo from Amazon.
Or if you do have a restaurant supply
store, you can get it from them.
And the difference is it makesthe salads like look like
thicker, like whiter versus when I did it,
it was a little bit more transparent.
But I actually heard you couldjust turn regular mayo into

(49:31):
decorator mayo by, uh, whiskingit, like power whisking
- It.
Oh, like adding air to it. Yeah.
- It'll just get thicker.Mm-Hmm. .
So interesting. Try, try that.
If, if you're, if you'redead set on it. Yeah.
- That's- Cool. All right.
So that's what we had for today.
There's plenty more memories I have.
I'm sure you have a bunch of memories too.
If you have a really goodone, leave it in the comments.

(49:52):
Remember, send us your questions.
We didn't do any questions today
because this one was alittle bit, uh, longer.
Mm-Hmm. than, than normal.
But still, we love your questions.
Send them to [e-mail].
As I said in the middle,I'm gonna say it again.
Rate this podcast, subscribe,follow it on Apple, Spotify,
YouTube, and like it, andshare it and tell your friends

(50:16):
and your neighbors and anybodyelse who will listen to you.
Right, Tara? Yes.
- Thank you.- We'll see you next time.