What if the key to solving your construction workforce challenges was hidden in plain sight? Tracy Austin, Chief Talent Officer at Elevated Talent Consulting and host of the People Strategy Podcast, reveals that the complaints you hear on job sites contain valuable information about what your team actually needs to succeed.
Traci offers a profound shift in perspective that can transform how construction leaders respond to workforce challenges. When companies learn to decode workers' complaints rather than dismiss them, they unlock powerful insights that lead to higher quality work, greater employee engagement, and significantly improved retention rates.
Drawing from her unique background, Traci bridges the gap between construction operations and people management. She outlines three core programs that help construction companies retain valuable talent: a structured mentorship program for the first 90 days, leadership development that empowers workers to take ownership over quality and teamwork, and strategic retention planning that includes one-on-ones and career pathing.
Austin addresses one of construction's most pressing challenges: bridging the generational divide between traditional "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality and younger workers seeking work-life balance. Her solution centers on creating clear, cascading goals that align individual aspirations with company objectives, allowing for flexibility in approach while maintaining commitment to shared outcomes. This alignment helps companies accommodate personal needs while ensuring project deadlines and quality standards are met.
For small construction companies without dedicated HR departments, Austin's "satellite HR" approach provides accessible expertise without the overhead of full-time specialists. This model helps even the smallest contractors implement professional people strategies that dramatically improve workforce stability. Ready to transform how your construction company retains its best people? This episode provides the blueprint you've been searching for.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So where are you calling in from today?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oof yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Wow, okay, this is very, very cool.
And what's the politicalfeeling down there right now?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know it's a mix.
However, we're in a town whereDiane Hendricks lives and has
her businesses.
So if you know, Diane Hendricks, the ABC supply company and
huge construction.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So you know there is a very strong support of Trump,
but then you also have a veryyou know it's polarized, it's
incredibly, incredibly polarized.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, yeah so yeah, that all in podcast is very good
to listen to, because they justit's.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm going to.
Oh, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, it's the Silicon Valley guys.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And then David Sachs went into the Trump
administration as the cryptoczar, but he used to be the
fourth host on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh, amazing.
Yeah, so they kind of helpedTrump get in, but now they're
because they were very liberalbefore then.
They got to know Trump and thenthey all went to the White
House.
They all got to know him.
But now they're very smart.
Guys Like Chamath Paliyapati isa billionaire.
They're all from Silicon Valley, ex-facebook, so they're all
smart guys.
But now they're actuallylooking at the tariffs and
(01:17):
trying to figure out how this isgoing to work and they dissect
it very well.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Amazing.
I'm definitely going to listento it.
It's the last episode.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I think they get into it at about 39 minutes and 55
seconds, so I would scrubforward All right.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Wisconsin known for cheese, right, yes, yeah, known
for cheese for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Welcome to the site.
Visit podcast leadership andperspective from construction
with your host, james Falkner.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Business as usual, as it has been for so long now
that it goes back to what wewere talking about before and
hitting the reset button.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know you read all the books.
You read the email, you readScaling Up, you read Good to
Great.
You know I could go on.
We've got to a place where wefound the secret serum.
We found the secret potion.
We can get the workers in.
We know where to get them.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Once I was on the job site for a while and actually
we had a semester concrete and Iordered like a Korean Finnish
patio out front of the site show.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yesterday I was down at Dallas and a guy just hit me
up on LinkedIn out of the blueand said he was driving from
Oklahoma to Dallas to meet withme because he heard the Faber
Connect platform on your guys'podcast Home.
It crush it and love it and wecelebrate these values every
single day.
Let's get down to it.
Tracy Austin, calling fromWisconsin.
(02:43):
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I'm doing great Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
You're very, very welcome.
So you've got a podcast of yourown.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I do.
It's called the People StrategyPodcast and we focus on
building people's strategies intrade organizations so folks
stay long term because it's mucheasier to retain than it is to
hire these days.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes, I would agree with that.
Very expensive to hire.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Absolutely Getting the fit and the onboarding and
the oh, it's just such a yeah,just keep the people you have,
so much better.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Absolutely, and there's some fun strategies for
keeping the people that you have.
You've got to listen to whatthey're saying, which a lot of
times comes out in complaints.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh, in complaints, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, so you know, if you think about what are the
key complaints that you have in,you know your clients, what
specifically comes up and youknow knowing the type of
platform that you're running andI was kind of taking a look at
that what are the complaintsthat your clients share with you
.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, well, it's interesting that I always find
that the developer and then intothe GC, this is basically just
a transfer of business problemsall the way down to when the
thing's built, and that transferof problems.
I find that at some point Ithink great companies have a
very even distribution of thoseand understand what they all are
(04:10):
.
I think companies that don't dowell are the ones that try and
hide it all.
And you end up with thispassive, aggressive pressure
because you're not open enough.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Absolutely, and that's a key of what you just
said being open enough, becauseif we're willing to listen to
the complaints, every complaintis just a poorly worded request.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh, I like that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
And so, as we listen to our employees, a lot of times
when they feel unheard, they'recomplaining.
They're complaining about nothaving the right tools, they're
complaining about not havingenough people, they're
complaining about not havingenough information for what's
needed, or so-and-so didn't showup.
All of those are actuallyrequests.
So when we can really listen into what the complaints are and
(04:58):
understand that they're requestsand turn them into a request,
we start engaging our teambecause they feel heard and
they're getting what they needin order to be successful.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Well, I'm sure in the time ofthis podcast, everyone's
complaining about these tariffs,so it's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yes, they are.
They are complaining about that.
There's a ton of complaintsabout that.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Are those requests that are never heard or requests
of a different type ofcomplaints?
I have no idea what that was.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think that there's some fog over what's really
going on and what's the wholepicture?
It feels like a bit of a lackof transparency.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It is a lack of transparency.
Well, the problem is that not alot of people really want to
dig deep into it.
They just want to hear asoundbite and then make their
judgment.
But yeah, that's.
It's a very difficult timewe're in, but yourself and
ourselves here at the Site,visit Podcast and and SiteMax
we're trying to give moreinformation, so that's good.
(05:57):
All right, so let's get into itAll right.
So there's music and we willcut now to you again.
So what's Wisconsin like thesedays?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, it's spring and it's cold.
Yet what I love about Wisconsinis the and both that you have
politically, because it leads tosome amazing conversations.
It's an amazing place to grow afamily because you've got.
The cost of living is lowerthan most parts, yeah, and you
have four seasons, and I lovefour seasons.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Four seasons are great we have that in Vancouver.
I mean, I will say that the wetrainy is too long in the tooth,
Like it gets and even right nowit's just dark and oh, I can't
handle it, yeah, but um, so it'sinteresting to I'll find that
the, that the um, the HRelements and, uh, the culture
(06:52):
piece of construction is highlycorrelated with cost of living
and cost per square foot, um, inthe areas that they're uh, you
know that we would be discussing.
So what's the average homeprice value, detached home price
, in your area?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
At this point it's about $275,000.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
$275,000.
Okay, so yeah, almost justaround under $400,000 Canadian.
Yeah, because here it's $1.2million wow again.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Wisconsin is a great place from cost of living and to
raise a family.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, and that 1.2 million is is not a great
detached home in vancouver,right, yeah, so, yeah, it's,
it's interesting, um, so maybejust give us.
I'm fascinated to talk to youbecause I think we're we have we
share a lot of similarperspectives.
I'm sure I used to have an HRbranded employer background of
(07:54):
doing employee valuepropositions in my old career,
so I understand the HRpositioning and sentiment
paradigm pretty well.
But let's just chat about you.
For instance, how'd you getinto this?
Give us your background.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I grew up in a family where mygrandpa ran his own home
building construction businessthat my dad was a part of, and
my dad now runs a GC.
My mom was in HR, so I kind offell into this and both between
the two.
So I've been in HR for 20 plusyears at this point and really
(08:35):
specialize in constructiontrades.
Why it is so much fun seeingthe impact, especially when we
can create such an impact andownership with you know line
staff that are out on the site,knowing that they have a voice
in what's happening and theybecome really engaged, which
means the quality of their workimproves.
(08:55):
That's really fun.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And so your consultancy and just tell us
sort of the work that you do soyour consultancy and just tell
us sort of the work that you do.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, absolutely so.
What we do is we work withorganizations.
Really, once folks are hired,we're focused on retention and
leadership.
So we have three core programs.
One is on mentoring the first90 days and providing
individuals that opportunity tolearn some leadership skills
while they're on site so thatthey one are given permission
(09:30):
that they can impact positivelywhat's happening with co-workers
.
Otherwise, the complaint weoften hear is well, they're not
pulling their slack, they're notdoing what they're supposed to
be doing.
Therefore, I have to do it allright.
So well, guess what theresolution of that is?
It's time for you to step up,and we're going to give you some
tools to do that, while havingsome ownership within it, so
(09:51):
that these new guys and galscoming in stay, because one of
the biggest issues is, the morewe turn over, the longer it
takes for folks to get up tospeed, and it results in lower
quality and it results in lowerquality.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
All very, very usable tactical strategies you have
there.
So what was the impetus of thename Elevated?
You just decided that was the.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah.
So the impetus of ElevatedTalent was we're a predictive
index partner, so we do use thebehavioral tools to get fit to
role, but also aligning teamstogether.
When we have a strategy, we'reexecuting.
If we don't have the rightplayers on that team, you know
it doesn't execute well.
(10:33):
The other piece of that is weall have strengths.
Well, the opposite of everysingle strength is a weakness,
and I would much rather turn upthe strengths of every single
person on that team than playwhack-a-mole on the weaknesses
and so elevated we elevate eachperson, versus playing
whack-a-mole on the weaknesses,because that's no fun and that
drives turnover as well.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So what do you think is one of the biggest
disconnects between leadershipand the workforce doing the work
?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So I think one of the biggest disconnects between
leadership and the workforce isthat engagement and what's
actually happening.
And so you know, what we findis that great leader has enough
time in the field, on the jobsite, understanding what's
happening.
There's empathy for what'sthere.
They're curious about what'sreally happening and not just
(11:32):
the sound bites of what'shappening.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I see.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Because you know, if we can understand what's
happening on a job site, ifwe've got a guy that's been with
us for 20 years and all of asudden we start seeing
performance and the complaintsabout this guy coming up.
You know the question is,what's really going on?
Versus he's just not workingout, let's move him out.
Well, let's figure out what'sreally going on.
And the way we do that is wereally start looking at that and
(12:00):
say, first off, let's go askhim what's going on.
Right and this is anaccountability tactic as well,
right, and I don't like the wordtactic necessarily, but it is,
you know.
So it's essentially saying, hey, what's going on?
And he's probably going togrumble and say nothing and we
say OK.
So here's some data points thatwe're seeing.
We really want to understand sowe can support you.
(12:20):
A lot of times, we find there'ssomething going on at home,
there's something going on withhealth, there's something going
on that they don't want to name.
Well, if we haven't yet builttrust, they're not going to
share that and we can't supportthem personally, which means we
can't support themprofessionally, which means the
productivity on our job site isgoing down.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Right.
So I've always wondered this isthat depending on the type of
construction that is being done?
Obviously, on the GC side youhave some self-performance
individuals who are working onthe site and then the sub-trades
(13:02):
is a little different of aballgame because they're all
showing up at someone else's joband depending on what that
trade is, on how technical it is, you're going to see a
different distribution of income, a different distribution of
happiness, depending on whatkind of a trade it is.
Yeah, for sure know what kind ofa trade it is yeah, for
(13:24):
instance, if you are, um, ifyou're doing more of a dirty,
very manual job versus, um, uh,wiring internet, fiber optic
cable and having to go to tradeschool for five years to know
how to do that.
Right, right, right.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So yeah, so we work with air balance controllers,
which, if you think about airbalance controllers, this is
like second tier subs, Right?
And so you know, most of theseorganizations are 10 employees,
like you know.
The bigger ones might be 50,but they're tiny.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And so within that, they're in doing some pretty
grunt work.
Most of them are trained,pulled right out of high school.
They're trained.
They're not necessarily goingto a tech school.
So the key here is how do wegain the ownership, which I
think was your question.
Right Is, how do we gain theownership of these individuals?
And part of that is thementorship that happens.
(14:24):
So what is the relationship,especially with these small
companies, between the owner andthese new hires coming in or
their second person, because alot of times they're still
running the tools.
The owner's still running thetools.
They're still out in the field.
And so the key is when we cancreate really strong mentorship
programs.
(14:44):
It creates ownership becausenow they start to see a track
into some other areas ofresponsibility if they want it,
and the ones that don't are asgolden as the ones that are,
because we still need theexperienced guys and gals that
show up and do the work each day.
A lot of times you're going outon two-man cruise with us.
We need the folks that takeownership in it, that take pride
(15:08):
in what they can look at andnot have to go back and redo a
job.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, fair enough, you know a lot of.
I had a fellow named Sean Graywho was on our podcast and was
talking about how much money iswasted on redos and redos.
There can be many factors onwhy something's being redone.
(15:33):
It could be back to the drawinglevel, it could be a whole host
of of reasons, um, buttypically it does come down to
somewhere down the value chain.
is project consciousness wasslipped somewhere someone wasn't
paying attention to some detailand it ended ended up, uh-oh,
they come to look at an areawhere they're supposed to be
(15:55):
doing work and we can installthis here, because this is not
what the drawing says, and thathappens a lot.
Also, though, you have to have aworkforce that is able to have
enough capacity in theirattention to be able to pay
(16:17):
attention, Correct, Correct, andyou know, with the intersection
of you've heard this a lot ofmental health and construction
you have a lot of.
In many industries also, likein the military as well, you
have a lot of inherited lifeissues that come into the
(16:37):
workspace.
So, for instance, somebodycould be coming to work and
they're already redliningmentally.
They've already got youprobably heard that you can only
hold five to seven things inyour attention at any time, and
when a lot of those spots aretaken up by things that are just
(17:00):
eating away.
You can't shut them out.
It could be a marital issue, itcould be a financial issue, it
could be your children, it couldbe a whole host of other things
, but you need the bandwidth tobe able to do a job well.
So what I'm always curious isin terms of when you're saying
(17:21):
you're trying to retain thepeople you have, what
responsibility is it withgovernments and like programs
that are coming to help thesub-trade that does have 10
employees that might not havethese programs in their mind?
They're redlining to begin with.
They're dealing with jobs thatare going sideways.
(17:42):
Not all jobs are profitable andsometimes they have to show up
on site as well and do thisself-performance as an owner.
And do this self-performance asan owner and now they're
expected to now be coaches andmentors and mental health
experts.
And you know, in order to helpthis go forward, what
(18:05):
responsibility do you thinkthere is for programs, tax
breaks, et cetera, for thatsmall business owner in
construction to be able to helpthose people to retain them?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's such a phenomenal
question.
And there is one of my favoritepodcast guests, which may soon
be your podcast guest.
His name is Bruce Martin.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Bruce works in actually for Marsha McLennan so,
but he is solely focused onmental health in construction.
Yes, he still does the sitevisits.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yes, he still does all of those items.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
But what I've really seen here and I partner with him
quite frequently is reallylooking at and saying how do we
support individuals and ensuringthat, with the insurance
packages that are available,that one mental health is
included in it?
And two that your employeeassistance programs are is
included in it.
And two, that your employeeassistance programs are also
included in it.
But there's been enoughresearch within that and sharing
(19:00):
so that the stigma is taken offof mental health and the EAP,
so that these individuals canreally get the support that they
need.
And the key here is tying thatsupport into the work
performance and the quality oflife, because we all have
seasons of life right so earlierin the show I had mentioned.
Hey, this individual that's beenwith us for 20 years all of a
(19:21):
sudden performance is dropping.
What the heck's going on?
It could be divorce.
It could be wife has cancer, itcould be a kid just ended up in
rehab.
It could be all of those thingsthat have a huge impact.
So here we need to look at anand both of what's available and
ensure that they know whatthose resources are, Because,
guess what, the company owner isnot going to know that as an
(19:44):
organization of 10 or even 50.
You need to have a really goodinsurance broker that is on your
side, that can take this on tosay, yes, here's what we offer
and here's where that cansupport.
And you know.
The key with all of these iswho's on your team to help this
in the specialized areas right,we specialize just in coaching
and leadership development.
We don't do anything else.
(20:04):
Why?
Because we can do that reallywell.
It's going to be the same thingin each of these other areas is
build your team so that you caneasily make a referral and
there is an obligation that youdo have that built in and that
those are available through thehealth insurance options.
Otherwise, our workforcecontinues to decrease because
(20:26):
they don't have the support thatthey need to be successful.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, that's a very, very good point to be successful
.
Yeah, that's a very, very, verygood point and it just made
I've actually never reallythought about this until you
just mentioned that point isthat you know, human beings,
regardless of income level, allhave similar problems.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
But the thing is when you said impact the impact for
somebody who's making 50 grand ayear versus the impact for
somebody making 150 grand a year?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Significant.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
It's the same human issue but the impact is just
confounded by a whole host ofthings.
I mean just the life situationof struggling to begin with and
then this event happens and itcompletely can take them out,
especially in the US, like withhealth insurance et cetera.
(21:17):
Can you just double click onhealth insurance with
construction companies ingeneral?
Is there what percentage, wouldyou say, of these companies
that have 20 or less employeeshave the kind of insurance that
is contributing to 401ks, likethat really kind of good
insurance?
Would you say it's a largepercentage.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So, based on the clients that we work with and of
course I don't have the numbersin front of me, so I'm trying
to go through my head of what Iknow, right, yeah, the more
professional ones, like theengineering firms, and and those
have much more than some of theothers.
And what I will also say iseach specialty area does have
(22:00):
different profit margins, right,yeah, for sure.
So each specialty area does havedifferent profit margins.
So you know, you're plumbing,your electricians typically have
a higher profit margin than,let's say, your air balance
controllers, for whatever reason, right.
So with that being said, thatis going to impact, you know.
But each state also has.
You know, the different impact.
In the US there is this magicnumber of 50.
(22:24):
So below 50, it's essentiallyfocused on what your experience
is for your group of employeesversus over 50.
What your experience is foryour group of employees versus
over 50.
You're now in group programs.
That is a different level.
So it's much, much moreexpensive for organizations
under 50 than it is over 50.
And that's a huge impact as well, which isn't great for the
(22:49):
number of small businesses thatare in the US, and there's a
significant number of them,especially in the trades.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, I always find there's a significant number of
them, especially in the trades.
Yeah, I always find there's acultural thing and maybe you can
add some extra color to thiswhen we're trying to bring the
younger generation forward inthese smaller companies.
They need some inspiration andsome role modeling that connects
(23:18):
with them.
And I think sometimes when theowner-operator is demonstrating
frustration constantly anddemonstrating that things are
hard and that has a huge mentalimpact on the possible
motivation of the lowerworkforce, because the signal to
(23:41):
them is, even if I crush it, Idon't even want that person's
job because I don't even likewhat they're going through.
Right, and when I was growingup and you know I've had very
few jobs but the you know,growing up I was pretty much an
entrepreneur since I was young.
But the couple of times I didhave a job, I always looked up
at the owner or the seniorleadership and you know they
(24:04):
always had a nicer car or theyhad better clothes or they had a
better life and they had abetter home.
you know good family, all thatkind of stuff and it would be a
role model that you would aspireto be.
And I think in construction, Ithink, because of the soft
skills that might be missing onthe leadership side, that
(24:28):
owner-operators kind of missthat piece.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I think that there is some of that and I will
name.
I've not really experiencedthat where I live, and so you
named earlier.
Tell me about Wisconsin, right.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Tell me about.
So we have something incrediblehere called Hendrix CareerTech,
which that's a part of ABCAmerican Builders and
Contractors.
You know it's one of the sistercompanies and what's great
about that is Hendrix CareerTechoffers for kids as young as
sixth grade, taking them intoall the trades.
So you know, my kids have gonethrough a youth apprenticeship
(25:05):
program in construction.
They went through a plumbingtwo or three day, they went
through welding, they wentthrough hospitality.
They went through all of thesedifferent trades.
Hospitality is not a trade, bythe way.
However, you know it was all ofthe different opportunities so
that they can figure out veryyoung what they like and what
(25:27):
they don't like.
And you know Ken and DianeHendricks, you know growing up
in this town where they foundedtheir organization.
What I absolutely love isthey're instilling this dare to
dream.
So there's so many smallorganizations that have grown
out of this idea of when you candare to dream, you can step
(25:47):
into it.
So as an owner, you do have aresponsibility for how you paint
that picture, and how you paintthat picture A thousand percent
has an impact in how thoseothers are going to step up,
because you're the example andif you're not a great example,
you're not going to have greatemployees, right?
So you know what you bring in isalso what you're reaping within
(26:09):
this.
You know, and when I look atother organizations that I that
I worked with across the country, you know, and talking with
many of these owners, like I'dmentioned earlier, it's really
getting them the opportunity toshare the concerns that they
have and create solutions in aroom where they're not with
their team.
So when they go back to theirteam, they have the ability to
(26:32):
separate out.
Here's the example that I'msetting and why and let's not
forget the things to be gratefulfor and what the gratitudes are
with many of those focused onleadership.
I always start with what areyour three wins, and I have
(26:54):
every single person name whatare your three wins this week,
including the owner.
The reason for that is it's soeasy for us to go negative, but
not always easy to reallyacknowledge the things that are
going right, and that is aculture shift, because now we're
starting to focus on what'sgoing right and what happens is
that snowballs into more andmore things going right, because
now we're starting to focus onwhat's going right and what
(27:15):
happens is that snowballs intomore and more things going right
, because now we've created theaccountability around it.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
So how does that get squaredfor the different generations
who, let's say, are typically Idon't want to get political, but
I'm going to because typicallyit is they built America, it's
(28:00):
Americana, it's very and this isa positive note this is a more
conservative mindset, andthey're having to hire the
liberal millennial kids who havebeen bubble wrapped and they're
(28:21):
going I, my values, are nottranscending here and not
connecting, because I come fromthe school of hard knocks and
we're gonna think, think tough,and we're going to build America
and we're going to do thesethings.
And then the millennials arelike, yeah, but you know, I need
work-life balance and I needthis and all the stuff that
(28:42):
they've been told over the yearswhich actually is costing
America money.
Correct, it's not actuallyearning us anything.
So how did?
How do you square that from aleadership point of view?
Do you hear that a lot?
Do you hear that there's?
I do.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, this pull you know we're going to pull
yourself up by the bootstraps,right?
And this also goes into we'remaking 50 grand a year versus
150 to 200 grand a year, right?
There's a completely differentsafety net there, right?
So I just want to name that,that sometimes, this pull up by
your bootstraps, it's acompletely different safety net
there, right?
So I just want to name that,that sometimes, this pull up by
(29:18):
your bootstraps, it's a verydifferent bootstrap we're
pulling up today than we were 40years ago.
So, with that being said,there's two key ways that we
really look at that.
One is what are thoseorganizational values and are we
naming it?
So you talked about employeevalue proposition earlier.
You know we want to ensure thatour organizational values are
aligned with an individual'spersonal values.
If they are not, then guesswhat?
(29:40):
You're not going to be a fit andwe shouldn't be hiring you into
the organization period.
Yeah, there's some gray areahere, right, and so the key is,
what can we continue to kind oflook at and say we both agree
with this and that's typicallygoals.
So what are those goals thatthe individual has and what are
the goals that the organizationhas?
(30:01):
And this is where we cascadegoals.
We've got our organizationalgoals by quarter for the year.
We have the leadership teamgoals by quarter for the year,
then we have the individual teamso that could be different
departments and then theindividual goals.
Those goals need to cascade.
So if the you know, if the goalis that this job gets done by
this date at this budget, and X,y and Z, guess what?
(30:24):
That's the goal.
Can we all agree that that'swhere we're going?
Yes, okay, let's talk aboutwhat it takes to actually get
there.
Right now we're shifting intothese others where our approach
to it becomes incrediblyimportant to merging the pull up
by the bootstraps and just getit done into.
I want to have work lifebalance.
This skill I want to get, youknow.
(30:54):
I want to get into theapprenticeship program and I
want to make $90,000 a year.
Okay, guess what.
All of those things arepossible, but here's the reality
for the possibility of that.
Are you willing to have enoughskin in the game to hit that
goal which aligns with the goalsthat we have?
And now we can ground ourselfinto goals so that, when we need
to work Saturday and we need towork a 12 hour shift on
(31:14):
Saturday because that's what'sneeded Did we agree that this
was the goal that we're goingtowards?
Yes, we did.
Amazing.
Now it's also paying attentionand saying hey, I understand,
you've got a kiddo that has abaseball game on Tuesday and
Thursday nights at 6 PM.
Yeah, I'm going to make sureyou're at that game at 6.
If I have to kick you out at545 to get there.
(31:36):
Yet I will need you here onSaturday.
And this is the and both ofwhat's important and knowing our
folks enough to know how do weplay the and both with it.
Yeah, so that we're meeting theneeds personally and
professionally.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Wow.
So can I ask you just a littlebit about your business?
I mean, do you?
This is a very cerebralconversation we're having here
and so, and a lot of companiesthat are, you know, 10, 20
people they don't have, theycan't afford an HR manager.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
No, they cannot.
Right so they absolutely cannot.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So is your service to provide this piece that's
totally missing, because thiscoordination piece, working with
leadership, for them to be ableto see the light, for you to
align values, et cetera, for youto have a pitch that is going
to resonate and will generatethe prospects to have fits on
(32:36):
the onboarding side of things.
And is that part of the servicethat you guys do?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, it, 100% is.
So this is what we call ourpeople strategy roadmap, and
what we're doing is we're sayingwhat is your business strategy?
How are you going about doingthe thing that you're doing?
What are the results that youwant, both now, this year and in
the future?
Right, we need to know how thisthing is growing.
What does it look like?
And what happens in the middleis people and processes.
(33:03):
You take care of the people thatwe need to execute on this
strategy and that's where westart putting these pieces
together and that's where youknow the coaching of either the
owner or whoever's in thatexecutive leadership team comes
(33:25):
into place.
And then we bring in our threecore programs, which are mentor
program, which goes back to howdo we onboard our individuals,
because we know if we have apoor onboarding program, they're
going to leave and they'regoing to be providing, you know,
not very great work.
They're not.
It's not going to be qualitywork, because we haven't set the
(33:45):
accountability of.
This is the expectation at thebeginning.
So we start out looking at jobdescription, which everyone
rolls their eyes at.
It's an and both to it, but weneed to know what is the quality
of work that's acceptable andrequired, and then we hold
everyone to that bar, includingthe owner, as we talked about
earlier.
(34:05):
Otherwise our quality starts togo.
So we've got the onboardingprogram, our new hire mentor
program, then we have aleadership development program
and we take a very much acoaching approach, as you can
probably hear yeah, you know,it's not, you did something
wrong, you know, blah, blah,blah, and we're yelling at you
for it and somebody's throwing acell phone through a trailer
(34:26):
window.
That was, you know, the oldschool construction management.
What we're doing is we'rereally looking and saying we're
coaching folks because we don'twant to give them a checklist
where they don't have to thinkfor themselves.
So we're going to start askingquestions.
What do you think the impact ofcutting that corner is?
(34:47):
What's the structural impact ofwhat we just did?
What's the impact going to bewhen this hospital gets up and
running and XYZ doesn't workright?
We start asking the questionsso that they start questioning
the quality of work that they'redoing, without telling them you
just did a poor job, right?
I don't think anyone probablyresponds very well to that.
We will for a short term, butif we understand the reason why
(35:11):
and we feel engaged in theprocess we start to take
ownership, and that's what wework on through our leadership
development program.
And then our team retentionprogram is focused on
one-on-ones and talent, pathwayplanning and performance
management.
So those three programs,coupled with the strategy and
(35:32):
the coaching, is what we do.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Wow, that's awesome and I would imagine that you
know being this sort ofsatellite HR layer.
So, for instance, I'm justgoing to add a little color to
that.
In my old career.
I used to, when I had the brandagency.
We used to have a somethingcalled brand satellite and I
(35:56):
would pitch the fact thattypically most companies can't
afford to have a brand manager.
It's a hundred and plusthousand dollar job back in that
time this is 15, 17 years ago,right?
So I used to say for X dollarsa month 17 years ago, right?
So I used to say for X dollarsa month.
(36:17):
We will, our agency will bethat and you have access to call
us anytime.
We're a consultant for you, andthat was a small retainer for a
fraction of what that wouldcost to have that person.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Do you have that same Yep, it's the same exact thing,
perfect.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
That's so good, because you know what, that it's
such an important layer that ittakes a huge amount of pressure
off that owner-operator to knowthat they have a layer that is
fully communicating what theyare wanting.
Because I find what happens isa lot of employers are kind of
(36:50):
on their best behavior whenthey're hiring but they're kind
of not being that genuinebecause they're just they need
that worker so bad that they'regoing to just act really good,
and then the person gets inthere and like, wow, this is
what I thought it was going tobe.
That person was on their bestbehavior at the time.
So you, so it's.
I think what you're, whatyou're doing, is really, really
(37:11):
great, because there's a lot ofmyths going on.
Can I just ask you about thisone thing that I've?
I also have these like themesof, you know, being a brand guy
and a storyteller and all Ialways think of things.
Concept of construction in itsessence is a transfer of dreams.
(37:43):
So I know and this, I know it'sgonna sound weird, but I want
your perspective on this so whena property developer um sees a
parcel of land, they get avision.
They go this is what I want todo here.
We could, probably.
It's not always just about money.
Sometimes it's like it's apassion.
There's a design element.
They want to be a positiveimpact to the environment or
(38:05):
wherever they are.
They want to make a greatbuilding and they want great
design.
They want to influence designaround the area.
There's lots of altruisticthings that kind of happen there
, and it's not just about makingthe dollar.
It's making the dollar with funand with passion as well.
So you take that passion andwhere I think there is a miss in
construction is that all theway down the value chain, you're
(38:28):
and the developer expects thatpassion to be transcending all
the way down to the field workerand they're like I can't even
afford to live in this thingthat you're dreaming about.
So, why should I be passionateabout your dream of misalignment
(38:51):
of passion and value?
That I think there are probablya lot of smart people out there
, a lot smarter than me.
Maybe you're one of them whocan put programs in place to
transfer that passion and makepeople understand that there is
value in delivering for otherpeople.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
There is value in delivering for other people,
yeah, and what's important tothem and to have this empathy
that you're trying to makesomething good in the world.
The project is important.
It's not just about your job.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Absolutely, absolutely, and some of that
comes through with questionsright.
And I mean and I'm going to tella story here, then circle it
back.
You know I remember drivingaround in the truck with my dad,
with him pointing out thebuildings that he was a part of
building.
Yeah, and that pride, right,and so much of that.
(39:45):
Even you know the guys that Iwill talk to.
You know I do a mentorshipprogram for several construction
companies, but when locally.
You know, one of the questionsthat I asked them is why do you
do the work that you do everyday?
These are framers.
You know, these are line level.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Some of them are in an apprenticeship program, some
of them are not.
And you know that question ofwhy do you do what you do.
And they're like because we aremaking this town so much better
than what it was before.
The blight that used to be onthe corner is now this beautiful
four-story condo building.
You're right, I can't live init right now, but I don't have
to look at that other thinganymore.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
And it's making this community better for my kids.
I can drive around town and say, hey, I was a part of building
that building.
As I'm looking out my you knowwindow right now, looking at a
building across the street, andthat pride and that excitement
of what is the legacy that youwant to live and when we can
start to ask those questions ofour team members coming in and
(40:46):
at the start of projects, it'sone of those that becomes really
important.
And my son, who's 17, did ayouth apprenticeship program
last summer and you know, andhe's doing another one this
summer for a local GC, and he'dcome home and I'm like, how was
work?
It was awful.
Well, why was it awful?
All I did was sweep all daylong.
Okay, well, what was the impactof sweeping?
(41:07):
Well, I don't know, it wasclean.
Well, what was it clean for?
Well, so that we could do thisor that.
And I'm like, well, whatbuilding were you working at?
Well, I was at the library,cool.
So what's the impact of that onour town?
Well, I don't know.
Well, here's the impact for me.
Does that maybe translate foryou?
So sometimes it's having thosequestions to start to pull the
(41:30):
curiosity out.
I will tell you it doesn'ttypically happen inside of the
conversation.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
No, it does not, it shows up later on.
Right, yeah, do you thinkthere's an alignment of values
in general in the corpus ofculture these days?
That is just expecting thingswithout any patience, and people
want things way too quicklythese days.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Oh, I do.
I do believe that and that'spart of the culture.
It's a massive piece.
Yeah Well, the other thing thatI will say, without getting way
too political here, with oureducation system, however our
education system is set up to, Itell you how to do it.
You do it that way.
We've taken so much creativityout of our educationing space
(42:20):
that used to be an old papermill.
You know, like the innovationto recreate what we have to
enable community to cometogether through these buildings
(42:43):
is incredible, and that we haveto tie back to what is really
important.
And there is a cultural changein mindset that we unfortunately
have, I am finding, have anobligation with our employees to
shift based on the way theschool systems are versus the
way the cultures are inside oforganizations.
(43:05):
And yes, it's very differentfrom a 10-employee organization
to a 50-employee organization,to a 100-employee organization.
There's huge distinctionsbetween that.
And if you don't create theculture consciously, it'll
create itself, and we defineculture as the behaviors that
you allow and don't allow tohappen.
So what are we going to createand how are we going to hold the
(43:28):
accountability so we can takepride in the building that we
just drove by?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
You know what?
You are the first person whohas echoed what I've been saying
is culture.
That I've heard, that Iactually have heard, because you
have said the same thing,because a lot of people talk
about culture.
I mean, it's such a buzzword.
I've heard it for years.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I hate it yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Well, so my definition of it is just the
same thing you just said.
I've always said it's the netbehavior of an organization.
That's what the culture is.
So you guys can decide whetherto steer it in a way.
You can't define it.
You can steer it, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Yeah, and if you can steer it with yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
So if you can steer it with things that are are
going to make an impact, thenyou know if it's like if you
have a corporate value of uh, wedon't like jerks, for instance,
okay, well, live and breathethat if someone's being a jerk,
give them a warning If they doit again.
Sorry, you don't fit here, so,um, but I love the fact that you
just said that about culture,because I find what's funny
(44:37):
about it is a lot of peopleunderneath leadership.
Obviously, the people workingat companies expect culture to
be this top-down initiative thatjust happens and they don't
feel they're accountable for itat all.
They just want to receive it.
They don't want to participatein it, which I find is it's poor
(45:02):
leadership when you don'texplain that to people.
So, for instance, if you want,I always said this with my older
company.
It was if you take care of thecompany, the company will take
care of you in a time of need100%.
(45:25):
So I'm asking you to put thecompany first, within the bounds
of our employment agreement.
So, do that, and then there'sgoing to come a time when you're
going to not be feeling well,or you're going to need
something for your kids, orthere's going to be a life event
that you need a company to saythey put their neck out for us
(45:50):
and now it's time for us torepay the favor.
But I don't think that that isthe beginning behavior today.
I think it's what have you donefor me lately?
Attitude coming into a company,what are you going to do for me
, especially when there's atight labor market?
Yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I know that you've got five positions open.
Those positions have been openfor three months and I'm here.
So, yeah, give me a good offer.
That kind of attitude Whereasit's good that they're showing
up, I guess hire that personthat's toxic from day one,
because what ends up happeningis you lower your bar and
setting out very clearly here isthe expectations, but here's
also what we provide.
And that goes back to thatemployee value proposition.
And you know what?
(46:56):
There's sometimes smallerorganizations that may pay a
little bit less and someactually may pay more, but it's
looking at and saying what isthe culture we're creating and
what's incredibly importantwithin that and how we're
building it.
So you know that WIIFM istypically across someone's
forehead, yet it is.
What is it that you want tocontribute?
Yet it is.
What is it that you want tocontribute?
And that I love that questionbecause what do you want to
contribute and what will driveyou to continue to stay at that
(47:20):
level?
And I'm really looking for thatperson that's hungry.
They may not have any of theskill sets, but they're hungry.
Great, we can feed that.
And what's important to youthat you have as a takeover
Sometimes I hear it's XYZ truckthat I'm working towards or it's
whatever.
It is Right, guess what we're?
(47:41):
I'm going to take that intoaccount and that becomes a piece
that, whenever we do a one onone, that's a check in piece.
Hey, how's that account goingtowards that truck, you know?
Hey, I know baby's due in threemonths.
What plans do you have for that?
Right, we're truly checking inpersonally, you know.
It's I don't know the, theradical candor book, right, care
(48:03):
personally, you know, and whenwe can care personally, that
translates into to the, thetrust, but also the commitment
where I'm going to do anythingfor you, because I know you're
going to do that for me too.
And we have a high level barthat we both want to reach,
because that's theaccountabilities that we've set
up and that's the culture thatwe've set up.
(48:23):
And when someone starts to fallunderneath that, I know it's
going to immediately beaddressed.
If it's not guess what that'son the manager and the owner of
the organization.
You just are killing yourculture.
So let's have those hardconversations, let's have those
tough conversations, but let'sdo it in a way that has empathy
(48:43):
and that has compassion and hasstrong levels of accountability
to raise that person up, becausemore than likely you see them
bigger than they see themselves.
That's awesome so let's get themto that high level point.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Well, you know, there's been many times where
I've seen a young individual whois just wide-eyed and wants to
do something, and it's likeopening a pop can.
That effervescence of youth andvulnerability and innocence
(49:17):
that wants to do something, thatI think is one of the most
precious resources we have.
And how do we get more of that?
Because I think what I'm seeingfrom a youth level is less of
that.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
I'm not seeing those people coming up and I think you
definitely see it a lot through.
I won't bring religion into ittoo much, but I think that the
religious framework oftenprovides that that respect.
You know I'm not a particularlyreligious person but I do have a
(49:55):
lot of religious friends and Isee their kids and I go.
That's kind of a betteroperating system.
It doesn't matter what religionis, just in general, just
something that has some kind ofa framework of community respect
.
And I think it's those thatsort of don't have a lot of
values to begin with that showup with more of an expectation
(50:16):
than they do with that archetypethat I was just mentioning.
So as you and I were chattingabout culture there and saying
this, the net behavior do yousee a huge difference between
leaders who are charismatic andthose who are flat?
(50:40):
Depending on the zip that peoplehave on the work site from a
leader that's like has acharacter.
You know there's a lot ofpeople like that.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Right, and I think so .
There's two things.
I want to go back to what youjust said about youth, so I
don't want to lose that point.
But onto the charismatic versusflat.
I think what's more importantthan charismatic versus flat is
can I trust what you say, thatyou're going to do it, and can I
trust that you have my back?
Both a charismatic person cando that and a flat person can do
(51:12):
that.
That's the integrity part, yes,but both the charismatic and a
flat person can also not havethe integrity to follow through
on it.
So I guess I'm looking at itmore from the integrity Thank
you for giving me the word fromthe integrity standpoint than
from you know how rah-rah outthere are they Right, and I do
think that that is important,along with the natural behaviors
(51:34):
of the individual.
We have some folks that arejust very out there and you know
they want the accolades foreverything, and others that just
want to put their head down anddo the work.
Yeah, the key here is whatsupport do they receive, right,
and some are never going to askfor it and others are going to
(51:54):
complain about what they don'thave versus ask for what they
want, right.
So I do think that that's a keythere.
And, as I love your pop cananalogy, because it's like as
soon as you open it, you getlike the carbonation and all
that fizz, but the longer itsits, the flatter it sits right.
So I think a key here with thisis knowing every single person
(52:18):
has the ability to pop that canopen no matter what, and it is
our job to capture those bubblesand say, all right, we're going
to capture the carbon, thebubbles, the carbon.
I love it.
We're going to capture thatcarbon and we're going to.
We're going to figure out howdo we continue to reignite that,
based on what's important tothem.
(52:38):
And you know, when you weretalking a little bit about
religion versus non-religion, Ispent my first 10 years in
nonprofit organizations and Iworked with a program called
Fresh Start.
So these are kids that havebeen kicked out, expelled from
the public high school and comeinto this work program, which
(52:58):
they're teaching them trades.
And I have to tell you, in mytime working with these kids,
they felt so unseen and somisunderstood and therefore
started getting involved withgangs, started getting involved
with groups because they weregiven the attention that they
didn't have at home.
(53:19):
Mostly one parent households,other things were going on at
home that was not payingattention to the kids that were
there.
So not that we as employerswant to be parents necessarily
of new hires coming in.
Yet at the same time, there is apiece here where it looks at
and says what does thisindividual need to hit their
(53:40):
highest potential?
What does this individual needin order to go from here to here
?
And how much of a pain in theass is that going to be and are
we willing to invest in it?
Right Now there's the and bothwith it, because there's some
where we can create programsthat work incredibly incredibly
well to work folks through that.
Yet when people feel seen andheard and that somebody has
(54:04):
their back, they will do justabout anything to get that.
And I do think that that's areally important piece because
that first 90 days you know theymay say something or they may
do something.
If we don't hold themaccountable immediately, that
behavior will continue and thatonboarding period is the most
(54:25):
important period you're going tohave with a new individual and
an individual long-term.
If that individual didn't havea great onboarding, those
behaviors follow all the waythrough.
So I'd love for your listenersto really think about how are we
onboarding our team and are weinstilling the culture and the
values and the behaviorsimmediately with it?
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
I can think of many exampleswhere you see a significant
veneer that is there and thenwhen you get into the company
it's like, oh, I didn't think itwas going to.
I thought it was gonna bebetter than this Right yeah, and
(55:06):
so and that's exactly whatyou're saying is that you know
you're not living up to thestandards of your.
It's almost like you know youcould call it, in a elementary
point of view, of falseadvertising you know Right the
bait and switch.
The bait and switch.
Yeah, exactly, but yeah, that'sa very, that's a very good
point.
I don't think that there isenough attention, you know, like
(55:26):
the whole body syndrome concept.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
The body syndrome Body syndrome was basically.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
like you know, we need a person to fill this role,
Just fill it.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Oh, the warm body syndrome.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,don't do that.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, I know Don't do that.
But I think a lot are like thatbecause it's the transfer of
problems.
Right, it's a you could call it.
Is it people power?
Is it still manpower?
I'm still confused.
We need the amount of, you know, hands-on site to accomplish,
you know, the contracts we have,et cetera, to finish the
project.
Yeah, so I think there's a youknow not having, yeah, that
(56:04):
clear communication program.
That's consistent.
That's the other part.
You know, one thing we used todo on the employer brand side of
things which was really hard todo, especially in big companies
.
I did them from big banks, likemulti-billion dollar
corporations, and what was hardwas having an employer value
(56:25):
proposition that was attractivefor new hires and attracting new
prospects, but one that thecurrent workforce, if they saw
those job ads out there, thatthey would go.
Yeah, we're like that, becauseoften what would happen?
And they go, they'readvertising this.
It's not like that in here.
There would be a misalignmentof reality from what they're
(56:48):
trying to pitch.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
So that can very often happen.
That's that veneer again thatwe're talking about.
So if there is a possibility ofbeing able to have a aligned
onboarding, transfer andcommunication of values and a
fit conversation because I thinkthat there is an opportunity to
(57:14):
really engage people when youquestion whether or not they
will fit with you, it's likehaving standards.
You know, you probably havesaid to your clients like this
many times.
It's kind of like dating right,when you meet somebody you
either are so desperate thatyou'll just take anybody or
(57:34):
you're going to say you knowwhat, I kind of have a standards
for a partner or a relationshipthat I want to get into.
I just won't accept that I havemore self-esteem than that and
that corporate self-esteemsometimes is totally missed.
So what you're doing withmaking sure that the values of
the company are a communicationpiece that mirrors the corporate
(57:55):
self-esteem, so that there isthis we just don't just take
anybody.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
And if you work for a company that just takes anybody
and everybody, you don't feellike anybody I know that kind of
sounds.
You don't feel value if anybodycan just get what you have,
because there's no exclusivitythere or you didn't.
There's no earned value there,whereas if you go into a company
(58:24):
that communicates clearly thatthey don't just take anybody,
well, I got in, okay.
So there's an uptick for me.
There's like, yeah, I got intothis company.
People say that They'll go to abarbecue and they'll say so.
I heard you start a new job.
Yeah, there was tons ofcandidates, but I'm the one that
got in.
They don't accept anybody.
That it's crazy to know whatthat message and confidence will
(58:49):
do to a person, how that willchange over time how they see
themselves in life to a person,how that will change over time
how they see themselves in life.
It might just be that job, butit set them on a completely
different trajectory to adifferent place in life that
they didn't have that experience.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
There's so much pride in it, right, there's so much
pride specifically in that.
So, if your listeners are going, okay, how do I do this?
I just I want to give you somequick things to think about, of
how you can do this and again,we don't do the higher portion
any longer but what we would dois we would set up a scorecard
that was based on veryspecifically what are the
(59:25):
behavioral traits that we needfor this job?
So we're very specificallylooking at things like detail,
orientation right, we're veryspecifically looking at are they
able to follow some of theseprocesses yet still have some
creativity when things go wrong?
And you've got to figure outhow do I make this thing fit?
It doesn't follow the plan, butI know we've got these other
(59:46):
items that we have to take intoaccount.
Company values would be thesecond piece of that.
Then the third would be theskill set.
So what are they walking inwith?
So we're looking at those.
That scorecard for hire rollsover into the same exact
scorecard that you are going tobe measured on for your
(01:00:06):
performance appraisals.
That impacts your bonus.
Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Gotcha.
What's added to that, then, isthose personal goals that align
to team goals, that align toorganizational goals the cascade
that we talked about previously, and that becomes a way that we
can say can this person getthis job done?
When we start doing that now,once they're inside of the
organization things like beingable to be eligible for an
(01:00:34):
apprenticeship program, beingeligible for the mentorship
program that we talked aboutthat gives them additional
leadership training, also givesthem that sticker on their hard
hat that says that they're anapprentice, which means that any
new hire can go to.
Those are really big deals,right?
I mean, it's amazing when I'mteaching these mentor programs
(01:00:54):
and they're so excited for thesticker at the end, right, like,
it's incredible because itshows the distinction of how
they have expectations up front,and I love bringing up and
(01:01:17):
saying what is the definition ofgood?
If you and I don't have thesame definition of good, one of
us is going to be sinking theboat and one of us is going to
be out there doing thisgangbusters job and upset at me
for not doing good work when Ithink that I am.
So it's so important we havereally clear definitions up
(01:01:39):
front that we all agree upon, sothat we know the expectations.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Jeez, you've been doing this a while.
Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
I can tell you're very good at it, so you can see
the passion here I do, I do funbecause when we create clarity,
folks step into it yeah, no,that's very good.
Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
The um.
You know, when we prepare forthese podcasts, as you know, we
kind of send notes around emailsand you know tatiana who
coordinates she's awesome,coordinates the podcast she's
phenomenal yeah, we get, if weget a few questions, and I've
got one point here and I know we, as I do.
You know what the cool thingabout the conversation we've had
is Is I do have four talkingpoints here that are.
(01:02:23):
You know, bring these things up.
This is not a question andanswer period, this is a
conversation, but we've coveredeverything already.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
But without actually asking those questions, which is
cool.
But there is one specific thingthat I just want you to respond
to is one of the first thingwas stop bitching, start
pitching, and can you?
You know before we?
We've been an hour and a bitnow, but I really want to make
sure that you that's yeah, it'sgot a lot of sizzle, so give us
(01:02:54):
what you mean by that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Absolutely.
We actually talked about it atthe very beginning and that was
how do we turn complaints intorequests.
So when we say stop bitching,start pitching, it's really
about listening into you.
Walk out on a job site, youhear all of the complaints of
everything that's not working.
Well, every complaint is apoorly worded request, right, so
pitching equals request.
(01:03:18):
So as leaders we need to startlistening into what is the
request so we can start askingfor it, which means we're
pitching for what we want andneed in order to get something
done, and sometimes that requestis as simple as I need a
different tool, or I need youknow an outline of how to do
this, because I've never done itbefore.
(01:03:39):
Sometimes it's will you holdthis person accountable because
they are completely draggingdown our entire work site?
Or can you, like, hold thisperson accountable because their
attitude is stinky, right, itmakes everyone else not want to
work.
So this idea of stop bitchingand start pitching really goes
into company culture.
How do we shift from complaintsinto hey, I'm empowered and I
(01:04:04):
have the permission to make therequest for what I need.
I may not always get what I askfor, but guess what?
The better requests I have thattie to the goal, the more
likely I'm going to be to get it.
Therefore, I'm going to startmaking better pitches or
requests, because it's going toelevate everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Ah, okay, Well, that was a great tie-in.
So yeah, I've been looking atthat for an hour.
I'm going, what does this mean?
So, yeah it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Well, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Okay, Tracy.
Well, how do people find youand how do they hire you guys?
Where do they find you?
Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Absolutely so.
Our website'selevatedtalentconsultingcom, our
leadership class.
We have a cohort startingbeginning of May and that one is
virtual.
I do have ones in person, butthat one is virtual.
If you wanted to put two peoplein it, I always recommend two
people because then they canbring it back and they have
somebody to bounce it off ofwhen leadership says no because
(01:04:58):
they don't understand it yet.
So two people is key.
Also, check out our podcast.
It's called the People StrategyPodcast and we go into you know
all of these people strategiesthat impact the quality of work
that you're doing and keep yourfolks engaged, which means that
they stay with you, continuingto perform high quality work.
Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Fantastic.
Okay, well, this has beenawesome.
Thank you very much, tracy.
Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Well, that does it for another episode of the Site
Visit.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to stay connected withus by following our social
accounts on Instagram andYouTube.
You can also sign up for ourmonthly newsletter at
sitemaxsystemscom slash the sitevisit, where you'll get
industry insights, pro tips andeverything you need to know
(01:05:57):
about the site visit podcast andsitemax, the job site and
construction management tool ofchoice for thousands of
contractors in North America andbeyond.
Sitemax is also the engine thatpowers this podcast.
All right, let's get back tobuilding.
So where are you calling in from today?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oof yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Wow, okay, this is very, very cool.
And what's the politicalfeeling down there right now?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know it's a mix.
However, we're in a town whereDiane Hendricks lives and has
her businesses.
So if you know, Diane Hendricks, the ABC supply company and
huge construction.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So you know there is a very strong support of Trump,
but then you also have a veryyou know it's polarized, it's
incredibly, incredibly polarized.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, yeah so yeah, that all in podcast is very good
to listen to, because they justit's.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm going to.
Oh, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, it's the Silicon Valley guys.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And then David Sachs went into the Trump
administration as the cryptoczar, but he used to be the
fourth host on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh, amazing.
Yeah, so they kind of helpedTrump get in, but now they're
because they were very liberalbefore then.
They got to know Trump and thenthey all went to the White
House.
They all got to know him.
But now they're very smart.
Guys Like Chamath Paliyapati isa billionaire.
They're all from Silicon Valley, ex-facebook, so they're all
smart guys.
But now they're actuallylooking at the tariffs and
(01:17):
trying to figure out how this isgoing to work and they dissect
it very well.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Amazing.
I'm definitely going to listento it.
It's the last episode.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I think they get into it at about 39 minutes and 55
seconds, so I would scrubforward All right.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Wisconsin known for cheese, right, yes, yeah, known
for cheese for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Welcome to the site.
Visit podcast leadership andperspective from construction
with your host, james Falkner.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Business as usual, as it has been for so long now
that it goes back to what wewere talking about before and
hitting the reset button.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know you read all the books.
You read the email, you readScaling Up, you read Good to
Great.
You know I could go on.
We've got to a place where wefound the secret serum.
We found the secret potion.
We can get the workers in.
We know where to get them.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Once I was on the job site for a while and actually
we had a semester concrete and Iordered like a Korean Finnish
patio out front of the site show.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yesterday I was down at Dallas and a guy just hit me
up on LinkedIn out of the blueand said he was driving from
Oklahoma to Dallas to meet withme because he heard the Faber
Connect platform on your guys'podcast Home.
It crush it and love it and wecelebrate these values every
single day.
Let's get down to it.
Tracy Austin, calling fromWisconsin.
(02:43):
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I'm doing great Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
You're very, very welcome.
So you've got a podcast of yourown.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I do.
It's called the People StrategyPodcast and we focus on
building people's strategies intrade organizations so folks
stay long term because it's mucheasier to retain than it is to
hire these days.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes, I would agree with that.
Very expensive to hire.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Absolutely Getting the fit and the onboarding and
the oh, it's just such a yeah,just keep the people you have,
so much better.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Absolutely, and there's some fun strategies for
keeping the people that you have.
You've got to listen to whatthey're saying, which a lot of
times comes out in complaints.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh, in complaints, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, so you know, if you think about what are the
key complaints that you have in,you know your clients, what
specifically comes up and youknow knowing the type of
platform that you're running andI was kind of taking a look at
that what are the complaintsthat your clients share with you
.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, well, it's interesting that I always find
that the developer and then intothe GC, this is basically just
a transfer of business problemsall the way down to when the
thing's built, and that transferof problems.
I find that at some point Ithink great companies have a
very even distribution of thoseand understand what they all are
(04:10):
.
I think companies that don't dowell are the ones that try and
hide it all.
And you end up with thispassive, aggressive pressure
because you're not open enough.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Absolutely, and that's a key of what you just
said being open enough, becauseif we're willing to listen to
the complaints, every complaintis just a poorly worded request.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh, I like that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
And so, as we listen to our employees, a lot of times
when they feel unheard, they'recomplaining.
They're complaining about nothaving the right tools, they're
complaining about not havingenough people, they're
complaining about not havingenough information for what's
needed, or so-and-so didn't showup.
All of those are actuallyrequests.
So when we can really listen into what the complaints are and
(04:58):
understand that they're requestsand turn them into a request,
we start engaging our teambecause they feel heard and
they're getting what they needin order to be successful.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Well, I'm sure in the time ofthis podcast, everyone's
complaining about these tariffs,so it's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yes, they are.
They are complaining about that.
There's a ton of complaintsabout that.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Are those requests that are never heard or requests
of a different type ofcomplaints?
I have no idea what that was.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think that there's some fog over what's really
going on and what's the wholepicture?
It feels like a bit of a lackof transparency.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It is a lack of transparency.
Well, the problem is that not alot of people really want to
dig deep into it.
They just want to hear asoundbite and then make their
judgment.
But yeah, that's.
It's a very difficult timewe're in, but yourself and
ourselves here at the Site,visit Podcast and and SiteMax
we're trying to give moreinformation, so that's good.
(05:57):
All right, so let's get into itAll right.
So there's music and we willcut now to you again.
So what's Wisconsin like thesedays?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, it's spring and it's cold.
Yet what I love about Wisconsinis the and both that you have
politically, because it leads tosome amazing conversations.
It's an amazing place to grow afamily because you've got.
The cost of living is lowerthan most parts, yeah, and you
have four seasons, and I lovefour seasons.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Four seasons are great we have that in Vancouver.
I mean, I will say that the wetrainy is too long in the tooth,
Like it gets and even right nowit's just dark and oh, I can't
handle it, yeah, but um, so it'sinteresting to I'll find that
the, that the um, the HRelements and, uh, the culture
(06:52):
piece of construction is highlycorrelated with cost of living
and cost per square foot, um, inthe areas that they're uh, you
know that we would be discussing.
So what's the average homeprice value, detached home price
, in your area?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
At this point it's about $275,000.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
$275,000.
Okay, so yeah, almost justaround under $400,000 Canadian.
Yeah, because here it's $1.2million wow again.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Wisconsin is a great place from cost of living and to
raise a family.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, and that 1.2 million is is not a great
detached home in vancouver,right, yeah, so, yeah, it's,
it's interesting, um, so maybejust give us.
I'm fascinated to talk to youbecause I think we're we have we
share a lot of similarperspectives.
I'm sure I used to have an HRbranded employer background of
(07:54):
doing employee valuepropositions in my old career,
so I understand the HRpositioning and sentiment
paradigm pretty well.
But let's just chat about you.
For instance, how'd you getinto this?
Give us your background.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I grew up in a family where mygrandpa ran his own home
building construction businessthat my dad was a part of, and
my dad now runs a GC.
My mom was in HR, so I kind offell into this and both between
the two.
So I've been in HR for 20 plusyears at this point and really
(08:35):
specialize in constructiontrades.
Why it is so much fun seeingthe impact, especially when we
can create such an impact andownership with you know line
staff that are out on the site,knowing that they have a voice
in what's happening and theybecome really engaged, which
means the quality of their workimproves.
(08:55):
That's really fun.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And so your consultancy and just tell us
sort of the work that you do soyour consultancy and just tell
us sort of the work that you do.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, absolutely so.
What we do is we work withorganizations.
Really, once folks are hired,we're focused on retention and
leadership.
So we have three core programs.
One is on mentoring the first90 days and providing
individuals that opportunity tolearn some leadership skills
while they're on site so thatthey one are given permission
(09:30):
that they can impact positivelywhat's happening with co-workers
.
Otherwise, the complaint weoften hear is well, they're not
pulling their slack, they're notdoing what they're supposed to
be doing.
Therefore, I have to do it allright.
So well, guess what theresolution of that is?
It's time for you to step up,and we're going to give you some
tools to do that, while havingsome ownership within it, so
(09:51):
that these new guys and galscoming in stay, because one of
the biggest issues is, the morewe turn over, the longer it
takes for folks to get up tospeed, and it results in lower
quality and it results in lowerquality.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
All very, very usable tactical strategies you have
there.
So what was the impetus of thename Elevated?
You just decided that was the.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah.
So the impetus of ElevatedTalent was we're a predictive
index partner, so we do use thebehavioral tools to get fit to
role, but also aligning teamstogether.
When we have a strategy, we'reexecuting.
If we don't have the rightplayers on that team, you know
it doesn't execute well.
(10:33):
The other piece of that is weall have strengths.
Well, the opposite of everysingle strength is a weakness,
and I would much rather turn upthe strengths of every single
person on that team than playwhack-a-mole on the weaknesses
and so elevated we elevate eachperson, versus playing
whack-a-mole on the weaknesses,because that's no fun and that
drives turnover as well.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So what do you think is one of the biggest
disconnects between leadershipand the workforce doing the work
?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So I think one of the biggest disconnects between
leadership and the workforce isthat engagement and what's
actually happening.
And so you know, what we findis that great leader has enough
time in the field, on the jobsite, understanding what's
happening.
There's empathy for what'sthere.
They're curious about what'sreally happening and not just
(11:32):
the sound bites of what'shappening.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I see.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Because you know, if we can understand what's
happening on a job site, ifwe've got a guy that's been with
us for 20 years and all of asudden we start seeing
performance and the complaintsabout this guy coming up.
You know the question is,what's really going on?
Versus he's just not workingout, let's move him out.
Well, let's figure out what'sreally going on.
And the way we do that is wereally start looking at that and
(12:00):
say, first off, let's go askhim what's going on.
Right and this is anaccountability tactic as well,
right, and I don't like the wordtactic necessarily, but it is,
you know.
So it's essentially saying, hey, what's going on?
And he's probably going togrumble and say nothing and we
say OK.
So here's some data points thatwe're seeing.
We really want to understand sowe can support you.
(12:20):
A lot of times, we find there'ssomething going on at home,
there's something going on withhealth, there's something going
on that they don't want to name.
Well, if we haven't yet builttrust, they're not going to
share that and we can't supportthem personally, which means we
can't support themprofessionally, which means the
productivity on our job site isgoing down.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Right.
So I've always wondered this isthat depending on the type of
construction that is being done?
Obviously, on the GC side youhave some self-performance
individuals who are working onthe site and then the sub-trades
(13:02):
is a little different of aballgame because they're all
showing up at someone else's joband depending on what that
trade is, on how technical it is, you're going to see a
different distribution of income, a different distribution of
happiness, depending on whatkind of a trade it is.
Yeah, for sure know what kind ofa trade it is yeah, for
(13:24):
instance, if you are, um, ifyou're doing more of a dirty,
very manual job versus, um, uh,wiring internet, fiber optic
cable and having to go to tradeschool for five years to know
how to do that.
Right, right, right.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So yeah, so we work with air balance controllers,
which, if you think about airbalance controllers, this is
like second tier subs, Right?
And so you know, most of theseorganizations are 10 employees,
like you know.
The bigger ones might be 50,but they're tiny.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And so within that, they're in doing some pretty
grunt work.
Most of them are trained,pulled right out of high school.
They're trained.
They're not necessarily goingto a tech school.
So the key here is how do wegain the ownership, which I
think was your question.
Right Is, how do we gain theownership of these individuals?
And part of that is thementorship that happens.
(14:24):
So what is the relationship,especially with these small
companies, between the owner andthese new hires coming in or
their second person, because alot of times they're still
running the tools.
The owner's still running thetools.
They're still out in the field.
And so the key is when we cancreate really strong mentorship
programs.
(14:44):
It creates ownership becausenow they start to see a track
into some other areas ofresponsibility if they want it,
and the ones that don't are asgolden as the ones that are,
because we still need theexperienced guys and gals that
show up and do the work each day.
A lot of times you're going outon two-man cruise with us.
We need the folks that takeownership in it, that take pride
(15:08):
in what they can look at andnot have to go back and redo a
job.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, fair enough, you know a lot of.
I had a fellow named Sean Graywho was on our podcast and was
talking about how much money iswasted on redos and redos.
There can be many factors onwhy something's being redone.
(15:33):
It could be back to the drawinglevel, it could be a whole host
of of reasons, um, buttypically it does come down to
somewhere down the value chain.
is project consciousness wasslipped somewhere someone wasn't
paying attention to some detailand it ended ended up, uh-oh,
they come to look at an areawhere they're supposed to be
(15:55):
doing work and we can installthis here, because this is not
what the drawing says, and thathappens a lot.
Also, though, you have to have aworkforce that is able to have
enough capacity in theirattention to be able to pay
(16:17):
attention, Correct, Correct, andyou know, with the intersection
of you've heard this a lot ofmental health and construction
you have a lot of.
In many industries also, likein the military as well, you
have a lot of inherited lifeissues that come into the
(16:37):
workspace.
So, for instance, somebodycould be coming to work and
they're already redliningmentally.
They've already got youprobably heard that you can only
hold five to seven things inyour attention at any time, and
when a lot of those spots aretaken up by things that are just
(17:00):
eating away.
You can't shut them out.
It could be a marital issue, itcould be a financial issue, it
could be your children, it couldbe a whole host of other things
, but you need the bandwidth tobe able to do a job well.
So what I'm always curious isin terms of when you're saying
(17:21):
you're trying to retain thepeople you have, what
responsibility is it withgovernments and like programs
that are coming to help thesub-trade that does have 10
employees that might not havethese programs in their mind?
They're redlining to begin with.
They're dealing with jobs thatare going sideways.
(17:42):
Not all jobs are profitable andsometimes they have to show up
on site as well and do thisself-performance as an owner.
And do this self-performance asan owner and now they're
expected to now be coaches andmentors and mental health
experts.
And you know, in order to helpthis go forward, what
(18:05):
responsibility do you thinkthere is for programs, tax
breaks, et cetera, for thatsmall business owner in
construction to be able to helpthose people to retain them?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's such a phenomenal
question.
And there is one of my favoritepodcast guests, which may soon
be your podcast guest.
His name is Bruce Martin.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Bruce works in actually for Marsha McLennan so,
but he is solely focused onmental health in construction.
Yes, he still does the sitevisits.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yes, he still does all of those items.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
But what I've really seen here and I partner with him
quite frequently is reallylooking at and saying how do we
support individuals and ensuringthat, with the insurance
packages that are available,that one mental health is
included in it?
And two that your employeeassistance programs are is
included in it.
And two, that your employeeassistance programs are also
included in it.
But there's been enoughresearch within that and sharing
(19:00):
so that the stigma is taken offof mental health and the EAP,
so that these individuals canreally get the support that they
need.
And the key here is tying thatsupport into the work
performance and the quality oflife, because we all have
seasons of life right so earlierin the show I had mentioned.
Hey, this individual that's beenwith us for 20 years all of a
(19:21):
sudden performance is dropping.
What the heck's going on?
It could be divorce.
It could be wife has cancer, itcould be a kid just ended up in
rehab.
It could be all of those thingsthat have a huge impact.
So here we need to look at anand both of what's available and
ensure that they know whatthose resources are, Because,
guess what, the company owner isnot going to know that as an
(19:44):
organization of 10 or even 50.
You need to have a really goodinsurance broker that is on your
side, that can take this on tosay, yes, here's what we offer
and here's where that cansupport.
And you know.
The key with all of these iswho's on your team to help this
in the specialized areas right,we specialize just in coaching
and leadership development.
We don't do anything else.
(20:04):
Why?
Because we can do that reallywell.
It's going to be the same thingin each of these other areas is
build your team so that you caneasily make a referral and
there is an obligation that youdo have that built in and that
those are available through thehealth insurance options.
Otherwise, our workforcecontinues to decrease because
(20:26):
they don't have the support thatthey need to be successful.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, that's a very, very good point to be successful
.
Yeah, that's a very, very, verygood point and it just made
I've actually never reallythought about this until you
just mentioned that point isthat you know, human beings,
regardless of income level, allhave similar problems.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
But the thing is when you said impact the impact for
somebody who's making 50 grand ayear versus the impact for
somebody making 150 grand a year?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Significant.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
It's the same human issue but the impact is just
confounded by a whole host ofthings.
I mean just the life situationof struggling to begin with and
then this event happens and itcompletely can take them out,
especially in the US, like withhealth insurance et cetera.
(21:17):
Can you just double click onhealth insurance with
construction companies ingeneral?
Is there what percentage, wouldyou say, of these companies
that have 20 or less employeeshave the kind of insurance that
is contributing to 401ks, likethat really kind of good
insurance?
Would you say it's a largepercentage.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So, based on the clients that we work with and of
course I don't have the numbersin front of me, so I'm trying
to go through my head of what Iknow, right, yeah, the more
professional ones, like theengineering firms, and and those
have much more than some of theothers.
And what I will also say iseach specialty area does have
(22:00):
different profit margins, right,yeah, for sure.
So each specialty area does havedifferent profit margins.
So you know, you're plumbing,your electricians typically have
a higher profit margin than,let's say, your air balance
controllers, for whatever reason, right.
So with that being said, thatis going to impact, you know.
But each state also has.
You know, the different impact.
In the US there is this magicnumber of 50.
(22:24):
So below 50, it's essentiallyfocused on what your experience
is for your group of employeesversus over 50.
What your experience is foryour group of employees versus
over 50.
You're now in group programs.
That is a different level.
So it's much, much moreexpensive for organizations
under 50 than it is over 50.
And that's a huge impact as well, which isn't great for the
(22:49):
number of small businesses thatare in the US, and there's a
significant number of them,especially in the trades.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, I always find there's a significant number of
them, especially in the trades.
Yeah, I always find there's acultural thing and maybe you can
add some extra color to thiswhen we're trying to bring the
younger generation forward inthese smaller companies.
They need some inspiration andsome role modeling that connects
(23:18):
with them.
And I think sometimes when theowner-operator is demonstrating
frustration constantly anddemonstrating that things are
hard and that has a huge mentalimpact on the possible
motivation of the lowerworkforce, because the signal to
(23:41):
them is, even if I crush it, Idon't even want that person's
job because I don't even likewhat they're going through.
Right, and when I was growingup and you know I've had very
few jobs but the you know,growing up I was pretty much an
entrepreneur since I was young.
But the couple of times I didhave a job, I always looked up
at the owner or the seniorleadership and you know they
(24:04):
always had a nicer car or theyhad better clothes or they had a
better life and they had abetter home.
you know good family, all thatkind of stuff and it would be a
role model that you would aspireto be.
And I think in construction, Ithink, because of the soft
skills that might be missing onthe leadership side, that
(24:28):
owner-operators kind of missthat piece.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I think that there is some of that and I will
name.
I've not really experiencedthat where I live, and so you
named earlier.
Tell me about Wisconsin, right.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Tell me about.
So we have something incrediblehere called Hendrix CareerTech,
which that's a part of ABCAmerican Builders and
Contractors.
You know it's one of the sistercompanies and what's great
about that is Hendrix CareerTechoffers for kids as young as
sixth grade, taking them intoall the trades.
So you know, my kids have gonethrough a youth apprenticeship
(25:05):
program in construction.
They went through a plumbingtwo or three day, they went
through welding, they wentthrough hospitality.
They went through all of thesedifferent trades.
Hospitality is not a trade, bythe way.
However, you know it was all ofthe different opportunities so
that they can figure out veryyoung what they like and what
(25:27):
they don't like.
And you know Ken and DianeHendricks, you know growing up
in this town where they foundedtheir organization.
What I absolutely love isthey're instilling this dare to
dream.
So there's so many smallorganizations that have grown
out of this idea of when you candare to dream, you can step
(25:47):
into it.
So as an owner, you do have aresponsibility for how you paint
that picture, and how you paintthat picture A thousand percent
has an impact in how thoseothers are going to step up,
because you're the example andif you're not a great example,
you're not going to have greatemployees, right?
So you know what you bring in isalso what you're reaping within
(26:09):
this.
You know, and when I look atother organizations that I that
I worked with across the country, you know, and talking with
many of these owners, like I'dmentioned earlier, it's really
getting them the opportunity toshare the concerns that they
have and create solutions in aroom where they're not with
their team.
So when they go back to theirteam, they have the ability to
(26:32):
separate out.
Here's the example that I'msetting and why and let's not
forget the things to be gratefulfor and what the gratitudes are
with many of those focused onleadership.
I always start with what areyour three wins, and I have
(26:54):
every single person name whatare your three wins this week,
including the owner.
The reason for that is it's soeasy for us to go negative, but
not always easy to reallyacknowledge the things that are
going right, and that is aculture shift, because now we're
starting to focus on what'sgoing right and what happens is
that snowballs into more andmore things going right, because
now we're starting to focus onwhat's going right and what
(27:15):
happens is that snowballs intomore and more things going right
, because now we've created theaccountability around it.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
So how does that get squaredfor the different generations
who, let's say, are typically Idon't want to get political, but
I'm going to because typicallyit is they built America, it's
(28:00):
Americana, it's very and this isa positive note this is a more
conservative mindset, andthey're having to hire the
liberal millennial kids who havebeen bubble wrapped and they're
(28:21):
going I, my values, are nottranscending here and not
connecting, because I come fromthe school of hard knocks and
we're gonna think, think tough,and we're going to build America
and we're going to do thesethings.
And then the millennials arelike, yeah, but you know, I need
work-life balance and I needthis and all the stuff that
(28:42):
they've been told over the yearswhich actually is costing
America money.
Correct, it's not actuallyearning us anything.
So how did?
How do you square that from aleadership point of view?
Do you hear that a lot?
Do you hear that there's?
I do.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, this pull you know we're going to pull
yourself up by the bootstraps,right?
And this also goes into we'remaking 50 grand a year versus
150 to 200 grand a year, right?
There's a completely differentsafety net there, right?
So I just want to name that,that sometimes, this pull up by
your bootstraps, it's acompletely different safety net
there, right?
So I just want to name that,that sometimes, this pull up by
(29:18):
your bootstraps, it's a verydifferent bootstrap we're
pulling up today than we were 40years ago.
So, with that being said,there's two key ways that we
really look at that.
One is what are thoseorganizational values and are we
naming it?
So you talked about employeevalue proposition earlier.
You know we want to ensure thatour organizational values are
aligned with an individual'spersonal values.
If they are not, then guesswhat?
(29:40):
You're not going to be a fit andwe shouldn't be hiring you into
the organization period.
Yeah, there's some gray areahere, right, and so the key is,
what can we continue to kind oflook at and say we both agree
with this and that's typicallygoals.
So what are those goals thatthe individual has and what are
the goals that the organizationhas?
(30:01):
And this is where we cascadegoals.
We've got our organizationalgoals by quarter for the year.
We have the leadership teamgoals by quarter for the year,
then we have the individual teamso that could be different
departments and then theindividual goals.
Those goals need to cascade.
So if the you know, if the goalis that this job gets done by
this date at this budget, and X,y and Z, guess what?
(30:24):
That's the goal.
Can we all agree that that'swhere we're going?
Yes, okay, let's talk aboutwhat it takes to actually get
there.
Right now we're shifting intothese others where our approach
to it becomes incrediblyimportant to merging the pull up
by the bootstraps and just getit done into.
I want to have work lifebalance.
This skill I want to get, youknow.
(30:54):
I want to get into theapprenticeship program and I
want to make $90,000 a year.
Okay, guess what.
All of those things arepossible, but here's the reality
for the possibility of that.
Are you willing to have enoughskin in the game to hit that
goal which aligns with the goalsthat we have?
And now we can ground ourselfinto goals so that, when we need
to work Saturday and we need towork a 12 hour shift on
(31:14):
Saturday because that's what'sneeded Did we agree that this
was the goal that we're goingtowards?
Yes, we did.
Amazing.
Now it's also paying attentionand saying hey, I understand,
you've got a kiddo that has abaseball game on Tuesday and
Thursday nights at 6 PM.
Yeah, I'm going to make sureyou're at that game at 6.
If I have to kick you out at545 to get there.
(31:36):
Yet I will need you here onSaturday.
And this is the and both ofwhat's important and knowing our
folks enough to know how do weplay the and both with it.
Yeah, so that we're meeting theneeds personally and
professionally.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Wow.
So can I ask you just a littlebit about your business?
I mean, do you?
This is a very cerebralconversation we're having here
and so, and a lot of companiesthat are, you know, 10, 20
people they don't have, theycan't afford an HR manager.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
No, they cannot.
Right so they absolutely cannot.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So is your service to provide this piece that's
totally missing, because thiscoordination piece, working with
leadership, for them to be ableto see the light, for you to
align values, et cetera, for youto have a pitch that is going
to resonate and will generatethe prospects to have fits on
(32:36):
the onboarding side of things.
And is that part of the servicethat you guys do?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, it, 100% is.
So this is what we call ourpeople strategy roadmap, and
what we're doing is we're sayingwhat is your business strategy?
How are you going about doingthe thing that you're doing?
What are the results that youwant, both now, this year and in
the future?
Right, we need to know how thisthing is growing.
What does it look like?
And what happens in the middleis people and processes.
(33:03):
You take care of the people thatwe need to execute on this
strategy and that's where westart putting these pieces
together and that's where youknow the coaching of either the
owner or whoever's in thatexecutive leadership team comes
(33:25):
into place.
And then we bring in our threecore programs, which are mentor
program, which goes back to howdo we onboard our individuals,
because we know if we have apoor onboarding program, they're
going to leave and they'regoing to be providing, you know,
not very great work.
They're not.
It's not going to be qualitywork, because we haven't set the
(33:45):
accountability of.
This is the expectation at thebeginning.
So we start out looking at jobdescription, which everyone
rolls their eyes at.
It's an and both to it, but weneed to know what is the quality
of work that's acceptable andrequired, and then we hold
everyone to that bar, includingthe owner, as we talked about
earlier.
(34:05):
Otherwise our quality starts togo.
So we've got the onboardingprogram, our new hire mentor
program, then we have aleadership development program
and we take a very much acoaching approach, as you can
probably hear yeah, you know,it's not, you did something
wrong, you know, blah, blah,blah, and we're yelling at you
for it and somebody's throwing acell phone through a trailer
(34:26):
window.
That was, you know, the oldschool construction management.
What we're doing is we'rereally looking and saying we're
coaching folks because we don'twant to give them a checklist
where they don't have to thinkfor themselves.
So we're going to start askingquestions.
What do you think the impact ofcutting that corner is?
(34:47):
What's the structural impact ofwhat we just did?
What's the impact going to bewhen this hospital gets up and
running and XYZ doesn't workright?
We start asking the questionsso that they start questioning
the quality of work that they'redoing, without telling them you
just did a poor job, right?
I don't think anyone probablyresponds very well to that.
We will for a short term, butif we understand the reason why
(35:11):
and we feel engaged in theprocess we start to take
ownership, and that's what wework on through our leadership
development program.
And then our team retentionprogram is focused on
one-on-ones and talent, pathwayplanning and performance
management.
So those three programs,coupled with the strategy and
(35:32):
the coaching, is what we do.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Wow, that's awesome and I would imagine that you
know being this sort ofsatellite HR layer.
So, for instance, I'm justgoing to add a little color to
that.
In my old career.
I used to, when I had the brandagency.
We used to have a somethingcalled brand satellite and I
(35:56):
would pitch the fact thattypically most companies can't
afford to have a brand manager.
It's a hundred and plusthousand dollar job back in that
time this is 15, 17 years ago,right?
So I used to say for X dollarsa month 17 years ago, right?
So I used to say for X dollarsa month.
(36:17):
We will, our agency will bethat and you have access to call
us anytime.
We're a consultant for you, andthat was a small retainer for a
fraction of what that wouldcost to have that person.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Do you have that same Yep, it's the same exact thing,
perfect.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
That's so good, because you know what, that it's
such an important layer that ittakes a huge amount of pressure
off that owner-operator to knowthat they have a layer that is
fully communicating what theyare wanting.
Because I find what happens isa lot of employers are kind of
(36:50):
on their best behavior whenthey're hiring but they're kind
of not being that genuinebecause they're just they need
that worker so bad that they'regoing to just act really good,
and then the person gets inthere and like, wow, this is
what I thought it was going tobe.
That person was on their bestbehavior at the time.
So you, so it's.
I think what you're, whatyou're doing, is really, really
(37:11):
great, because there's a lot ofmyths going on.
Can I just ask you about thisone thing that I've?
I also have these like themesof, you know, being a brand guy
and a storyteller and all Ialways think of things.
Concept of construction in itsessence is a transfer of dreams.
(37:43):
So I know and this, I know it'sgonna sound weird, but I want
your perspective on this so whena property developer um sees a
parcel of land, they get avision.
They go this is what I want todo here.
We could, probably.
It's not always just about money.
Sometimes it's like it's apassion.
There's a design element.
They want to be a positiveimpact to the environment or
(38:05):
wherever they are.
They want to make a greatbuilding and they want great
design.
They want to influence designaround the area.
There's lots of altruisticthings that kind of happen there
, and it's not just about makingthe dollar.
It's making the dollar with funand with passion as well.
So you take that passion andwhere I think there is a miss in
construction is that all theway down the value chain, you're
(38:28):
and the developer expects thatpassion to be transcending all
the way down to the field workerand they're like I can't even
afford to live in this thingthat you're dreaming about.
So, why should I be passionateabout your dream of misalignment
(38:51):
of passion and value?
That I think there are probablya lot of smart people out there
, a lot smarter than me.
Maybe you're one of them whocan put programs in place to
transfer that passion and makepeople understand that there is
value in delivering for otherpeople.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
There is value in delivering for other people,
yeah, and what's important tothem and to have this empathy
that you're trying to makesomething good in the world.
The project is important.
It's not just about your job.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Absolutely, absolutely, and some of that
comes through with questionsright.
And I mean and I'm going to tella story here, then circle it
back.
You know I remember drivingaround in the truck with my dad,
with him pointing out thebuildings that he was a part of
building.
Yeah, and that pride, right,and so much of that.
(39:45):
Even you know the guys that Iwill talk to.
You know I do a mentorshipprogram for several construction
companies, but when locally.
You know, one of the questionsthat I asked them is why do you
do the work that you do everyday?
These are framers.
You know, these are line level.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Some of them are in an apprenticeship program, some
of them are not.
And you know that question ofwhy do you do what you do.
And they're like because we aremaking this town so much better
than what it was before.
The blight that used to be onthe corner is now this beautiful
four-story condo building.
You're right, I can't live init right now, but I don't have
to look at that other thinganymore.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
And it's making this community better for my kids.
I can drive around town and say, hey, I was a part of building
that building.
As I'm looking out my you knowwindow right now, looking at a
building across the street, andthat pride and that excitement
of what is the legacy that youwant to live and when we can
start to ask those questions ofour team members coming in and
(40:46):
at the start of projects, it'sone of those that becomes really
important.
And my son, who's 17, did ayouth apprenticeship program
last summer and you know, andhe's doing another one this
summer for a local GC, and he'dcome home and I'm like, how was
work?
It was awful.
Well, why was it awful?
All I did was sweep all daylong.
Okay, well, what was the impactof sweeping?
(41:07):
Well, I don't know, it wasclean.
Well, what was it clean for?
Well, so that we could do thisor that.
And I'm like, well, whatbuilding were you working at?
Well, I was at the library,cool.
So what's the impact of that onour town?
Well, I don't know.
Well, here's the impact for me.
Does that maybe translate foryou?
So sometimes it's having thosequestions to start to pull the
(41:30):
curiosity out.
I will tell you it doesn'ttypically happen inside of the
conversation.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
No, it does not, it shows up later on.
Right, yeah, do you thinkthere's an alignment of values
in general in the corpus ofculture these days?
That is just expecting thingswithout any patience, and people
want things way too quicklythese days.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Oh, I do.
I do believe that and that'spart of the culture.
It's a massive piece.
Yeah Well, the other thing thatI will say, without getting way
too political here, with oureducation system, however our
education system is set up to, Itell you how to do it.
You do it that way.
We've taken so much creativityout of our educationing space
(42:20):
that used to be an old papermill.
You know, like the innovationto recreate what we have to
enable community to cometogether through these buildings
(42:43):
is incredible, and that we haveto tie back to what is really
important.
And there is a cultural changein mindset that we unfortunately
have, I am finding, have anobligation with our employees to
shift based on the way theschool systems are versus the
way the cultures are inside oforganizations.
(43:05):
And yes, it's very differentfrom a 10-employee organization
to a 50-employee organization,to a 100-employee organization.
There's huge distinctionsbetween that.
And if you don't create theculture consciously, it'll
create itself, and we defineculture as the behaviors that
you allow and don't allow tohappen.
So what are we going to createand how are we going to hold the
(43:28):
accountability so we can takepride in the building that we
just drove by?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
You know what?
You are the first person whohas echoed what I've been saying
is culture.
That I've heard, that Iactually have heard, because you
have said the same thing,because a lot of people talk
about culture.
I mean, it's such a buzzword.
I've heard it for years.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I hate it yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Well, so my definition of it is just the
same thing you just said.
I've always said it's the netbehavior of an organization.
That's what the culture is.
So you guys can decide whetherto steer it in a way.
You can't define it.
You can steer it, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Yeah, and if you can steer it with yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
So if you can steer it with things that are are
going to make an impact, thenyou know if it's like if you
have a corporate value of uh, wedon't like jerks, for instance,
okay, well, live and breathethat if someone's being a jerk,
give them a warning If they doit again.
Sorry, you don't fit here, so,um, but I love the fact that you
just said that about culture,because I find what's funny
(44:37):
about it is a lot of peopleunderneath leadership.
Obviously, the people workingat companies expect culture to
be this top-down initiative thatjust happens and they don't
feel they're accountable for itat all.
They just want to receive it.
They don't want to participatein it, which I find is it's poor
(45:02):
leadership when you don'texplain that to people.
So, for instance, if you want,I always said this with my older
company.
It was if you take care of thecompany, the company will take
care of you in a time of need100%.
(45:25):
So I'm asking you to put thecompany first, within the bounds
of our employment agreement.
So, do that, and then there'sgoing to come a time when you're
going to not be feeling well,or you're going to need
something for your kids, orthere's going to be a life event
that you need a company to saythey put their neck out for us
(45:50):
and now it's time for us torepay the favor.
But I don't think that that isthe beginning behavior today.
I think it's what have you donefor me lately?
Attitude coming into a company,what are you going to do for me
, especially when there's atight labor market?
Yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I know that you've got five positions open.
Those positions have been openfor three months and I'm here.
So, yeah, give me a good offer.
That kind of attitude Whereasit's good that they're showing
up, I guess hire that personthat's toxic from day one,
because what ends up happeningis you lower your bar and
setting out very clearly here isthe expectations, but here's
also what we provide.
And that goes back to thatemployee value proposition.
And you know what?
(46:56):
There's sometimes smallerorganizations that may pay a
little bit less and someactually may pay more, but it's
looking at and saying what isthe culture we're creating and
what's incredibly importantwithin that and how we're
building it.
So you know that WIIFM istypically across someone's
forehead, yet it is.
What is it that you want tocontribute?
Yet it is.
What is it that you want tocontribute?
And that I love that questionbecause what do you want to
contribute and what will driveyou to continue to stay at that
(47:20):
level?
And I'm really looking for thatperson that's hungry.
They may not have any of theskill sets, but they're hungry.
Great, we can feed that.
And what's important to youthat you have as a takeover
Sometimes I hear it's XYZ truckthat I'm working towards or it's
whatever.
It is Right, guess what we're?
(47:41):
I'm going to take that intoaccount and that becomes a piece
that, whenever we do a one onone, that's a check in piece.
Hey, how's that account goingtowards that truck, you know?
Hey, I know baby's due in threemonths.
What plans do you have for that?
Right, we're truly checking inpersonally, you know.
It's I don't know the, theradical candor book, right, care
(48:03):
personally, you know, and whenwe can care personally, that
translates into to the, thetrust, but also the commitment
where I'm going to do anythingfor you, because I know you're
going to do that for me too.
And we have a high level barthat we both want to reach,
because that's theaccountabilities that we've set
up and that's the culture thatwe've set up.
(48:23):
And when someone starts to fallunderneath that, I know it's
going to immediately beaddressed.
If it's not guess what that'son the manager and the owner of
the organization.
You just are killing yourculture.
So let's have those hardconversations, let's have those
tough conversations, but let'sdo it in a way that has empathy
(48:43):
and that has compassion and hasstrong levels of accountability
to raise that person up, becausemore than likely you see them
bigger than they see themselves.
That's awesome so let's get themto that high level point.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Well, you know, there's been many times where
I've seen a young individual whois just wide-eyed and wants to
do something, and it's likeopening a pop can.
That effervescence of youth andvulnerability and innocence
(49:17):
that wants to do something, thatI think is one of the most
precious resources we have.
And how do we get more of that?
Because I think what I'm seeingfrom a youth level is less of
that.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
I'm not seeing those people coming up and I think you
definitely see it a lot through.
I won't bring religion into ittoo much, but I think that the
religious framework oftenprovides that that respect.
You know I'm not a particularlyreligious person but I do have a
(49:55):
lot of religious friends and Isee their kids and I go.
That's kind of a betteroperating system.
It doesn't matter what religionis, just in general, just
something that has some kind ofa framework of community respect
.
And I think it's those thatsort of don't have a lot of
values to begin with that showup with more of an expectation
(50:16):
than they do with that archetypethat I was just mentioning.
So as you and I were chattingabout culture there and saying
this, the net behavior do yousee a huge difference between
leaders who are charismatic andthose who are flat?
(50:40):
Depending on the zip that peoplehave on the work site from a
leader that's like has acharacter.
You know there's a lot ofpeople like that.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Right, and I think so .
There's two things.
I want to go back to what youjust said about youth, so I
don't want to lose that point.
But onto the charismatic versusflat.
I think what's more importantthan charismatic versus flat is
can I trust what you say, thatyou're going to do it, and can I
trust that you have my back?
Both a charismatic person cando that and a flat person can do
(51:12):
that.
That's the integrity part, yes,but both the charismatic and a
flat person can also not havethe integrity to follow through
on it.
So I guess I'm looking at itmore from the integrity Thank
you for giving me the word fromthe integrity standpoint than
from you know how rah-rah outthere are they Right, and I do
think that that is important,along with the natural behaviors
(51:34):
of the individual.
We have some folks that arejust very out there and you know
they want the accolades foreverything, and others that just
want to put their head down anddo the work.
Yeah, the key here is whatsupport do they receive, right,
and some are never going to askfor it and others are going to
(51:54):
complain about what they don'thave versus ask for what they
want, right.
So I do think that that's a keythere.
And, as I love your pop cananalogy, because it's like as
soon as you open it, you getlike the carbonation and all
that fizz, but the longer itsits, the flatter it sits right.
So I think a key here with thisis knowing every single person
(52:18):
has the ability to pop that canopen no matter what, and it is
our job to capture those bubblesand say, all right, we're going
to capture the carbon, thebubbles, the carbon.
I love it.
We're going to capture thatcarbon and we're going to.
We're going to figure out howdo we continue to reignite that,
based on what's important tothem.
(52:38):
And you know, when you weretalking a little bit about
religion versus non-religion, Ispent my first 10 years in
nonprofit organizations and Iworked with a program called
Fresh Start.
So these are kids that havebeen kicked out, expelled from
the public high school and comeinto this work program, which
(52:58):
they're teaching them trades.
And I have to tell you, in mytime working with these kids,
they felt so unseen and somisunderstood and therefore
started getting involved withgangs, started getting involved
with groups because they weregiven the attention that they
didn't have at home.
(53:19):
Mostly one parent households,other things were going on at
home that was not payingattention to the kids that were
there.
So not that we as employerswant to be parents necessarily
of new hires coming in.
Yet at the same time, there is apiece here where it looks at
and says what does thisindividual need to hit their
(53:40):
highest potential?
What does this individual needin order to go from here to here
?
And how much of a pain in theass is that going to be and are
we willing to invest in it?
Right Now there's the and bothwith it, because there's some
where we can create programsthat work incredibly incredibly
well to work folks through that.
Yet when people feel seen andheard and that somebody has
(54:04):
their back, they will do justabout anything to get that.
And I do think that that's areally important piece because
that first 90 days you know theymay say something or they may
do something.
If we don't hold themaccountable immediately, that
behavior will continue and thatonboarding period is the most
(54:25):
important period you're going tohave with a new individual and
an individual long-term.
If that individual didn't havea great onboarding, those
behaviors follow all the waythrough.
So I'd love for your listenersto really think about how are we
onboarding our team and are weinstilling the culture and the
values and the behaviorsimmediately with it?
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
I can think of many exampleswhere you see a significant
veneer that is there and thenwhen you get into the company
it's like, oh, I didn't think itwas going to.
I thought it was gonna bebetter than this Right yeah, and
(55:06):
so and that's exactly whatyou're saying is that you know
you're not living up to thestandards of your.
It's almost like you know youcould call it, in a elementary
point of view, of falseadvertising you know Right the
bait and switch.
The bait and switch.
Yeah, exactly, but yeah, that'sa very, that's a very good
point.
I don't think that there isenough attention, you know, like
(55:26):
the whole body syndrome concept.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
The body syndrome Body syndrome was basically.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
like you know, we need a person to fill this role,
Just fill it.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Oh, the warm body syndrome.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,don't do that.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, I know Don't do that.
But I think a lot are like thatbecause it's the transfer of
problems.
Right, it's a you could call it.
Is it people power?
Is it still manpower?
I'm still confused.
We need the amount of, you know, hands-on site to accomplish,
you know, the contracts we have,et cetera, to finish the
project.
Yeah, so I think there's a youknow not having, yeah, that
(56:04):
clear communication program.
That's consistent.
That's the other part.
You know, one thing we used todo on the employer brand side of
things which was really hard todo, especially in big companies
.
I did them from big banks, likemulti-billion dollar
corporations, and what was hardwas having an employer value
(56:25):
proposition that was attractivefor new hires and attracting new
prospects, but one that thecurrent workforce, if they saw
those job ads out there, thatthey would go.
Yeah, we're like that, becauseoften what would happen?
And they go, they'readvertising this.
It's not like that in here.
There would be a misalignmentof reality from what they're
(56:48):
trying to pitch.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
So that can very often happen.
That's that veneer again thatwe're talking about.
So if there is a possibility ofbeing able to have a aligned
onboarding, transfer andcommunication of values and a
fit conversation because I thinkthat there is an opportunity to
(57:14):
really engage people when youquestion whether or not they
will fit with you, it's likehaving standards.
You know, you probably havesaid to your clients like this
many times.
It's kind of like dating right,when you meet somebody you
either are so desperate thatyou'll just take anybody or
(57:34):
you're going to say you knowwhat, I kind of have a standards
for a partner or a relationshipthat I want to get into.
I just won't accept that I havemore self-esteem than that and
that corporate self-esteemsometimes is totally missed.
So what you're doing withmaking sure that the values of
the company are a communicationpiece that mirrors the corporate
(57:55):
self-esteem, so that there isthis we just don't just take
anybody.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
And if you work for a company that just takes anybody
and everybody, you don't feellike anybody I know that kind of
sounds.
You don't feel value if anybodycan just get what you have,
because there's no exclusivitythere or you didn't.
There's no earned value there,whereas if you go into a company
(58:24):
that communicates clearly thatthey don't just take anybody,
well, I got in, okay.
So there's an uptick for me.
There's like, yeah, I got intothis company.
People say that They'll go to abarbecue and they'll say so.
I heard you start a new job.
Yeah, there was tons ofcandidates, but I'm the one that
got in.
They don't accept anybody.
That it's crazy to know whatthat message and confidence will
(58:49):
do to a person, how that willchange over time how they see
themselves in life to a person,how that will change over time
how they see themselves in life.
It might just be that job, butit set them on a completely
different trajectory to adifferent place in life that
they didn't have that experience.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
There's so much pride in it, right, there's so much
pride specifically in that.
So, if your listeners are going, okay, how do I do this?
I just I want to give you somequick things to think about, of
how you can do this and again,we don't do the higher portion
any longer but what we would dois we would set up a scorecard
that was based on veryspecifically what are the
(59:25):
behavioral traits that we needfor this job?
So we're very specificallylooking at things like detail,
orientation right, we're veryspecifically looking at are they
able to follow some of theseprocesses yet still have some
creativity when things go wrong?
And you've got to figure outhow do I make this thing fit?
It doesn't follow the plan, butI know we've got these other
(59:46):
items that we have to take intoaccount.
Company values would be thesecond piece of that.
Then the third would be theskill set.
So what are they walking inwith?
So we're looking at those.
That scorecard for hire rollsover into the same exact
scorecard that you are going tobe measured on for your
(01:00:06):
performance appraisals.
That impacts your bonus.
Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Gotcha.
What's added to that, then, isthose personal goals that align
to team goals, that align toorganizational goals the cascade
that we talked about previously, and that becomes a way that we
can say can this person getthis job done?
When we start doing that now,once they're inside of the
organization things like beingable to be eligible for an
(01:00:34):
apprenticeship program, beingeligible for the mentorship
program that we talked aboutthat gives them additional
leadership training, also givesthem that sticker on their hard
hat that says that they're anapprentice, which means that any
new hire can go to.
Those are really big deals,right?
I mean, it's amazing when I'mteaching these mentor programs
(01:00:54):
and they're so excited for thesticker at the end, right, like,
it's incredible because itshows the distinction of how
they have expectations up front,and I love bringing up and
(01:01:17):
saying what is the definition ofgood?
If you and I don't have thesame definition of good, one of
us is going to be sinking theboat and one of us is going to
be out there doing thisgangbusters job and upset at me
for not doing good work when Ithink that I am.
So it's so important we havereally clear definitions up
(01:01:39):
front that we all agree upon, sothat we know the expectations.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Jeez, you've been doing this a while.
Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
I can tell you're very good at it, so you can see
the passion here I do, I do funbecause when we create clarity,
folks step into it yeah, no,that's very good.
Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
The um.
You know, when we prepare forthese podcasts, as you know, we
kind of send notes around emailsand you know tatiana who
coordinates she's awesome,coordinates the podcast she's
phenomenal yeah, we get, if weget a few questions, and I've
got one point here and I know we, as I do.
You know what the cool thingabout the conversation we've had
is Is I do have four talkingpoints here that are.
(01:02:23):
You know, bring these things up.
This is not a question andanswer period, this is a
conversation, but we've coveredeverything already.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
But without actually asking those questions, which is
cool.
But there is one specific thingthat I just want you to respond
to is one of the first thingwas stop bitching, start
pitching, and can you?
You know before we?
We've been an hour and a bitnow, but I really want to make
sure that you that's yeah, it'sgot a lot of sizzle, so give us
(01:02:54):
what you mean by that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Absolutely.
We actually talked about it atthe very beginning and that was
how do we turn complaints intorequests.
So when we say stop bitching,start pitching, it's really
about listening into you.
Walk out on a job site, youhear all of the complaints of
everything that's not working.
Well, every complaint is apoorly worded request, right, so
pitching equals request.
(01:03:18):
So as leaders we need to startlistening into what is the
request so we can start askingfor it, which means we're
pitching for what we want andneed in order to get something
done, and sometimes that requestis as simple as I need a
different tool, or I need youknow an outline of how to do
this, because I've never done itbefore.
(01:03:39):
Sometimes it's will you holdthis person accountable because
they are completely draggingdown our entire work site?
Or can you, like, hold thisperson accountable because their
attitude is stinky, right, itmakes everyone else not want to
work.
So this idea of stop bitchingand start pitching really goes
into company culture.
How do we shift from complaintsinto hey, I'm empowered and I
(01:04:04):
have the permission to make therequest for what I need.
I may not always get what I askfor, but guess what?
The better requests I have thattie to the goal, the more
likely I'm going to be to get it.
Therefore, I'm going to startmaking better pitches or
requests, because it's going toelevate everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Ah, okay, Well, that was a great tie-in.
So yeah, I've been looking atthat for an hour.
I'm going, what does this mean?
So, yeah it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Well, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Okay, Tracy.
Well, how do people find youand how do they hire you guys?
Where do they find you?
Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Absolutely so.
Our website'selevatedtalentconsultingcom, our
leadership class.
We have a cohort startingbeginning of May and that one is
virtual.
I do have ones in person, butthat one is virtual.
If you wanted to put two peoplein it, I always recommend two
people because then they canbring it back and they have
somebody to bounce it off ofwhen leadership says no because
(01:04:58):
they don't understand it yet.
So two people is key.
Also, check out our podcast.
It's called the People StrategyPodcast and we go into you know
all of these people strategiesthat impact the quality of work
that you're doing and keep yourfolks engaged, which means that
they stay with you, continuingto perform high quality work.
Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Fantastic.
Okay, well, this has beenawesome.
Thank you very much, tracy.
Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Well, that does it for another episode of the Site
Visit.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to stay connected withus by following our social
accounts on Instagram andYouTube.
You can also sign up for ourmonthly newsletter at
sitemaxsystemscom slash the sitevisit, where you'll get
industry insights, pro tips andeverything you need to know
(01:05:57):
about the site visit podcast andsitemax, the job site and
construction management tool ofchoice for thousands of
contractors in North America andbeyond.
Sitemax is also the engine thatpowers this podcast.
All right, let's get back tobuilding.
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