The City of Vancouver is revolutionizing how construction permits are approved. At BUILDEX Vancouver 2025, we had the opportunity to chat with Corrie Okell, General Manager of Development, Buildings, and Licensing at the City of Vancouver, about how digital transformation is reducing permit wait times and reshaping the builder-city relationship.
Learn how the city has implemented technologies like ePlan, which allows for 24/7 drawing submissions. While the transition was initially challenging for paper-dependent professionals, this digital shift has created unprecedented flexibility for both industry and city staff.
What’s truly groundbreaking is Vancouver’s new approach to application quality. Poor submissions have historically caused endless back-and-forth delays. Now, innovative tools like the Project Requirements Exploration Tool (PRET) help property owners understand what can be built on their lot before submitting, while the new eComply system automatically identifies non-compliant elements in drawings in real time.
These technologies support Vancouver's ambitious 3-3-3-1 Permit Approval Framework:
✅ 3 days to approve home renovation permits (including those for mobility and accessibility-related upgrades).
✅ 3 weeks to approve single-family home and townhouse permits.
✅ 3 months to approve permits for professionally designed multi-family and mid-rise projects where zoning is already in place.
✅ 1 year to approve permits for high-rise or large-scale projects.
Want to know how these permitting innovations could impact your next project? Subscribe to The Site Visit for insights from construction industry leaders shaping the future of building.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Site.
Visit Podcast.
Leadership and Perspective fromConstruction with your host,
james Faulkner.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Recorded live from the show floor at BuildX
Vancouver 2025.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
All right, I am very, very honored to have you here.
Thank you, corey O'Kell, fromthe city of Vancouver.
So you are the general managerof development, buildings and
licensing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yes, I am.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you, it's nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yes, here we are at BuildX.
So what do you think of theshow so far?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's pretty good.
So far, so good.
Yeah this is my second yearcoming down here.
Yeah, it's super interestingfar so good.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, this is my second year coming down here and
yeah, it's super interesting.
Yeah, it's kind of interesting,I guess, from being up at uh,
at your offices, you're up onbroadway and your whole foods.
There is that where you guysstill are now yeah, I'm at uh
10th and camby oh 10th and thevan city building is where our
offices are.
Okay, yeah, okay yeah I used togo in.
Oh yeah, no, that's right, yeah, okay, yeah, no, exactly,
you're um, so exactly where youare.
So you know, very, veryinteresting.
(01:05):
So from being at the office anddoing all the things you do
there and then coming down hereand then just getting that hyper
sense of there's so much goingon and so many lives and all
that all wrapped up and all ofthe things that you see on a
daily basis, pretty crazy right?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, it is pretty crazy Pretty crazy, right?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, it is pretty crazy, all right.
So we're going to talk todayabout you know processes with
City Hall, you know approvals intechnology, etc.
And you know sort of where yousee things going, what
progresses you've seen over timeand how things are going.
So let's just chat a little bitabout like digital
(01:45):
transformation.
So there's something that maybeyou could sort of shed some
light to this Does the push fortechnology always have to
address the lowest commondenominator for people to
provide access?
So let's just say, for instance, that a contractor is like a
low-tech contractor and they doeverything by paper, and is
(02:05):
there some kind of rules whereyou have to still allow people
to use paper if they want to?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Not anymore, not anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
So just take me through that.
In terms of when people pulldrawings from the city, are
those provided digitally nowonly only?
Or are they paper plans if theywant to pay for them?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, so we made a huge digital initial shift
through COVID.
Okay, so when we had to closedown our doors and not touching
anything we used to I mean,people used to line up, we used
to have rules of people bringingin their plans, and then we
implemented technology calledePlan so they could upload their
drawings either digitally orprovide as a PDF, and that's
(02:51):
when we started to just take ineverything in a digital format
and using technology to reviewthose plans and we stopped
taking in paper about a year agonow.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Okay, okay, interesting, okay.
Now, in terms of the formats,like at Cytomax, we have a
drawings module where you canupload your drawings, and so is
there with many uploads ofdrawings for construction
management software platforms.
There are requirements forthose types of drawings.
On what kind of formats thatthey are.
(03:21):
Is there any restrictions interms of a drawing being a flat
vector drawing versus, like, araster drawing, which would be a
PDF that has handwritten thingsin it, because a digital
document could be just a PDFwith photos in it.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, so right now it's pretty much we're taking in
PDFs for most things On ourother things, like for our
digital transformation, for ourlow density we're starting to
have specific kinds of formatsof those drawings that can be
uploaded, that are more of likethe 3D model instead of just
being a PDF.
(03:58):
Yeah, like a 2D drawing OkayInteresting.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So because I know that a lot of drawings that are
let's say they're rasterized,they're basically flat, so if
you were to zoom into them, theywould get blurry at some point
when you zoom in, keep zoomingin, Whereas a vector-based
drawing is resolutionindependent.
You keep zooming in and it justkeeps clearing itself up
because it's actually a line,Like a wall line would actually
(04:23):
be a coordinate in metadata inan actual document rather than a
photo yeah, so we're.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
We're working on having an integration so that we
can have different kinds ofdrawings in the pdfs that we
have right okay, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So is it this digital transformation?
What like bottom?
Like, have you you had peopleup in arms about it?
Has it been like?
Oh my God, it didn't used to belike this.
What sort of how do you heard?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, so from when we had to go just to paper, like
get rid of the paper and uploaddrawings, I think initially
there are some people that havebeen working with paper for
years and years and years.
It was a challenge for yearsand years and years.
it was a challenge, so we gaveleeway to try and get them to a
place where they could havedigital stamps and start to be
able to use the technology tohelp, and I think now it's just
(05:14):
common practice.
I think a lot of people don'tgo in person for things, so
their preference is to uploadsomething.
It makes us so.
We're 24-7.
You can upload drawings,drawings, you can upload your
questions into our portal, so Ithink it's given more
flexibility for industry forsure oh okay, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Um, so in terms of um , the sort of how often do are
you getting drawings and likethey're just wrong, like people
submit things and then there'schecking from Do you're looking
at?
Let's say that they get adigital drawing set from you and
(05:54):
then they modify that and thenthey make just a terrible error,
so something's totally out.
How much of a delay does thatcreate?
Typically, if somebody doesn'tget something quite right and
they're trying to get their youknow inspection done, for
instance?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
yeah, so.
So that does cause a lot ofback and forth because they
could upload it.
It may take a couple days forit to be reviewed, yeah, and
then if it's wrong, we have togo back to them, and that is one
of the key things is like, thequality of the submissions is
what started us on our digitaljourney.
That makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, the quality of submissions is hard because you
know sometimes, like you know,with not every renovation is
you're going to go to anarchitect for some.
Sometimes you know constructioncompanies have internal teams
that they know how to do CAD,they know how to do these
drawings, and it isn't anarchitect.
I mean, if you're going to doespecially with some of your
(06:52):
renovation projects, so maybe,maybe, um, this is something
that people don't know.
Is that what?
When did you um?
When did you um announce orrelease the program for
renovations under a certaindollar amount?
Uh, were able to get a permitin a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Okay, so it was about a year ago and we started a
residential renovation fasttrack.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, so people, if they're doing like a low scope
of renovation, they can uploadtheir drawings.
We review them within a coupleof days and then it's basically
an inspector goes out to verifythe work.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So that's allowed us for our 3331 platform from the
ABC party and our mayor andcouncil.
It's allowed us to meet thatfirst target of three days.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Okay, so ABC pushed that through.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
They ran on a platform of 3-3-3-1, which is
renovations within three days,low density within three weeks,
mid-rise within three months forpermits and then one year for
rezonings.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, so is the rezoning thinga gong show, like with the
laneway houses and all thatstuff?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, I don't know For larger developers.
Rezoning doesn't sit within mydepartment.
That sits in with planning andurban design.
But they did a lot of work inplanning around reducing the
zoning.
So bringing in for residentialzones like an R11, which allows
(08:25):
now multiplexes and much easierto apply for permits rather than
having to go through thatrezoning process.
It allows those to be builtbroadly throughout the city.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Okay, so what other transformations from a digital
point of view do you see comingdown the pike?
You were saying that somethings would be 3D modeled for
some of your larger projects.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, so I'll speak to what we're undergoing right
now.
Our main focus is low-densityhousing.
So a couple of years ago westarted our digital
transformation project and itwas really about that complete
application coming in, like wespoke about before.
So we found a lot of time inthe low-density housing stream.
People are often homeownerswanting to do their own work.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They may not hire an architect, and so they have a
lot of questions.
They don't know what to submit.
So we brought in a projectrequirement tool called PrEP is
what we call it where people cango and look at their lot and
say what do I want to build here, what could I build here?
And so they can enter a bunchof data into the system and I'll
(09:32):
say this is what you can buildon your lot, whether it's a
single family house in a lanewayor it's a multiplex or whatever
that might be, it actuallytells them what they can build
on their lot.
The second phase which we'repiloting right now is e-comply,
which then allows, when they getto like, oh I think I want to
(09:53):
build this here, they can submittheir drawings and it'll
basically right away reviewthose drawings and tell them
what does not comply with ourregulations.
So if the building's too big,if the setback's too small, so
it'll actually look at that forthem, and all that work out
front is then helping us getthem to where they can then
(10:14):
submit an application that is inmore compliance than it would
have been before thosetechnologies were implemented.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, that's pretty cool.
So and this is mostly obviouslylike for the detached single
family home, that is, these lotsare just not exploited for
density.
So is that the main goal ofCity of Vancouver to make sure
there's enough like lanewayhouses and all that are
obviously going to increasedensity within neighborhoods?
Is that kind of the mandate?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't know if that's our.
That's where we've started onthe digital path.
We want to expand that tohigher density with development
permits, building permits.
But we wanted to startsomewhere where it's very
repetitive and high volume.
So that allowed us to trial thesoftware and really see what's
working and what isn't, and thenengage with industry to see how
(11:00):
we have to change it to workfor them, to see how we have to
change it to work for them.
So that's everywhere, fromlaneway house, single family
dwelling, multiplex and duplexis all being trialed right now
in that scope.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Right, okay, yeah, it's so interesting for the
homeowner.
You hear this oh the city.
And how does that become moreof a symbiotic relationship
rather than an adversarial one?
It just seems like from youknow, as I was saying before the
(11:41):
podcast, lots of friendsthey've renovated, lots of
condos, done all this stuff.
I'd want to confirm that that'sall he did for a while.
And you hear oh the city, ohthe city, oh the city, oh the
city.
And this is all the complaintsI've heard over the years.
So how does it level set?
For is it the fact that maybeit's when people feel they have
(12:03):
ownership over something, itfeels like maybe they don't have
the autonomy they thought thatthey did?
Because I think that isprobably like the baseline of it
, the baseline of frustration.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, I feel that a lot of the time it's a shared
well, I know it's a sharedjourney.
So when we talked before thatthat you know we don't maybe get
a totally complete applicationand then they, um don't know
what they have to submit.
So there's a bit of back andforth and it's like, well, the
city's being unreasonable, um,but the implementation of these
(12:36):
tools.
Our goal is that there won't bethat back and forth anymore and
it isn't just the city, becausethey'll have provided us like
the best information possibleright away, which then helps us
to then expedite any kind ofadditional review we'd have to
do on our end.
And as soon as we get back tosomebody, if there's
deficiencies or things that theyhave to change, the sooner they
(12:58):
get back to us is the faster.
Then we'll get back to themwith their permit.
Right, okay, is the faster,then we'll get back to them with
their permit.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Right, okay, in terms of buildings that were built a
certain way in the past, andthen people want to do a
renovation and then they like aparticular format of something.
Maybe they want, I don't know,maybe they have, maybe there's
(13:29):
something that they know that onnew builds you can't have
anymore.
Maybe it's like a gas range orit's a something like that.
Right, and they're like hellbent on that and they want that
thing, and but they know, ifthey do a renovation over a
certain that, this, the citymight say well, you know, if
you're going to redo yourkitchen, you can't put this in
this time.
Is that does that like?
(13:49):
And there's probably a myriadof things that are the way the
building used to be, and if youwant to change it now, you have
to update it on a number ofthings that weren't actually in
your plan.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, yeah.
So that is a challenge I willagree that that many people
often face.
So there, you know, we know ourum.
Lots of homes within the cityare older and people maybe want
to upgrade them and they have tocomply with the new regulations
.
So it's not like you can goback in time to I don't know
1970 when your house was builtit.
(14:23):
Now, looking at at what thecode is today, because we're
trying to build that moreresilient city where you know,
looking at um, looking at thingslike code that's around, um,
it's failing me right now, butif there's an earthquake like we
, have I know seismic, there yougo, seismic yeah.
(14:43):
Right.
So, looking at you know, isthere a ability that they have
to do seismic upgrades?
And that's both residential andcommercial.
You know we always look foropportunities to make our city
better and if somebody's comingin and renovating in a
commercial building, quite oftenit's like well, how much of it
can you make more resilient andseismically upgrade?
(15:04):
And I know that that'sobviously a conversation that
goes around quite often and youknow we're trying to look at
ways to support business aroundthose things support homeowners,
but there are some code thingsthat they just have to comply
with that are hard, and that'swhy we often also tell them that
you know, hiring a professionalis usually will know exactly
(15:24):
what needs to happen and itmakes it a much more smoother
process for them as well.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Do you have like ancillary consultants that can
help people with this stuff?
Because I think there's this.
I think the fear for a lot ofpeople is and this is the
bottleneck a lot of people haveis this fear of the unknown.
I don't know who I'm dealingwith at the city.
It's this big bureaucracy.
They don't know who I'm dealingwith at the city.
It's this big bureaucracy.
They don't know.
There's no relationship untilmaybe an inspector's involved.
(15:52):
Other than that it's justemails.
But is there any?
Because I would think it wouldprobably help the city if you
guys could say well, if you wantto pay extra to this, we can
recommend somebody who canliaise with us to sort of smooth
(16:14):
out the bumps for you, becauseI think that there's sometimes a
communication gap in betweenthis and it creates an
adversarial relationship.
So is there any kind of bodythat does it besides regular
consultants?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, it would be hard for us to take a position
to be advising on who theyshould reach out to, because
we're just, you know, we'reneutral in that way.
But we're always open ifsomebody's having challenges and
sometimes when things getescalated to me, they're like,
oh, we've been going back andforth for six months on
(16:47):
something and I'm like, is thisthe first time it's been
escalated?
Have you talked to anybody else?
And they're like, no, wehaven't.
I'm like, okay, well, you couldhave.
You know, like we actuallyencourage people to request
in-person meetings if they don'tunderstand To request, or if it
has to be, you know, a teamsmeeting or whatever.
We encourage that because Ithink things get resolved so
(17:11):
much faster in person and it'sso much clarity is provided when
you can have that in-person,one-on-one with your project
facilitator or your projectcoordinator.
So we are encouraging that.
I mean that did shift throughCOVID and you know we're well
out of COVID and we're lookingout of COVID and we're looking
at a new model for our servicescenter where we can bring back
more of that one-on-oneinteraction where people can
(17:33):
come in and get advice from uson the projects they're trying
to undergo.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, I mean, you must have probably seen over the
years, thanks to YouTube,everyone kind of knows how to do
things these days, and probablypretty well.
I mean, there's things that alot of people would have had to
go to trade school to even learn.
Now it's like here I'll showyou how to do it, and that's got
to be complex for you guys,because everyone thinks they can
(17:59):
do it.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, we get doodles on napkins of people that think
they can.
This is the renovation I wantto do and it's just like hand
drawn and not understanding thatwe need something a little bit
more than that.
So I think there is a lot of doit yourselfers.
I think that sometimes thatcreates where they're not
pulling permits and then downthe road if they're wanting to
(18:24):
do something else on a largerscale and inspectors have to
come in or we're reviewingprevious plans, then you know
that can create issues as wellfor work that they've done on
their own that potentially theyshould have at least gotten a
permit for much headache.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
is it like if you could eliminate the the crap
drawings factor of ofsubmissions?
How much time do you think thattakes?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
like if you still get emails going back and forth
delays everything just becausethe drawing wasn't quite right
yeah, the drawing, theinformation provided, the
documents being provided and andwith the technology that's what
we're trying to eliminate isthat back and forth, so people
know right up front what theyneed to submit?
It takes weeks off of theprocess.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, it would.
So it would seem like anartificial intelligence layer
would be very helpful there,like immediately on submission,
for the AI to be able to giveyou an instant result.
That it's not right Somehow.
So if you were to submit adrawing, for instance, and
(19:30):
there's obviously clear errorsin it compared to another set,
because obviously you have apermanent application number and
that application number has thelot address and etc.
And it could have access tothose plans and it could collate
those things together andprovide here's where errors are
immediately or within fiveminutes, rather than taking a
(19:52):
week, because a week can turninto oh, I've got to do a
revision another week to anotherweek of approval to it, like
this could be way quicker.
So have you guys gone down thatroad of thinking of an
artificial intelligence layerfor drawing submissions?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, it's something I mean.
Ai is a buzzword nowadays.
Everybody's using it.
I think that there's a lot ofvalue in it.
There's a lot to still explorethere.
The technology that we're usingto look at plans does have a
bit of that component in itwhere it's like you're
submitting it and it's lookingat what complies and what
doesn't comply.
We're just at the initial trialperiod with that and then we're
(20:32):
going to be expanding that andgrowing on that in the upcoming
months and years.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, interesting.
So what I find something thatyou mentioned earlier is that
there was a push from citycouncil it's an ABC party at
that time to be able to get the3-3, what was it?
3-3?
3-3-3-1.
3-3-3-1.
(20:58):
Four years of having people inthere is a long time, and these
days things move so quickly,time and so these days things
move so quickly and it's, Ithink, what sometimes do you
(21:19):
feel that there is a disconnect,communication wise, between the
general public and City Hall,the building, your office, and
to sort of create someconfidence and level setting, I
think trying to get rid of theadversarial part, Because I'll
give you an example of somethingthat is crazy.
(21:41):
This is the feeling that thepublic has.
They'll see something for anapplication or plans to redo the
Granville District when all ourroads have holes everywhere.
What are we doing?
Get the basics down so peoplethink that is your department,
(22:02):
even though it's civil roads andall that.
Everyone thinks it's the samething.
Everyone says the city, thecity, the city, and you guys get
lumped into that and actuallyyou guys are doing a lot of work
.
This city is very complicated.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It is very complicated.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Huge amount of dollars and also, as you can
imagine, the compression ofinterest rates and developers
like up to here with pressure.
I mean, you've probably seenmany coloring books of all sorts
of situations where you're likeGod, this is crazy, what's
going on in the city.
So what do you think about that?
How can there be a lessadversarial relationship in
(22:42):
general, the general discourseand communication between the
public and the city?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, I you know what I think we I think we're doing
a really good job oncommunicating out all the work
that we're doing about theinitiatives that are underway.
I mean, for my department Iwork very closely with our
engineering team and ourplanning team to try and
coordinate that and get thatword out of all the work we're
trying to do, especially in thedevelopment realm and how can we
(23:07):
support developers?
Being a public servant, it'slike I want to serve my
community and make sure it's abetter place, regardless of what
else is going on, and knowingthat we're in a housing crisis,
and how can I support that andsupporting the city of Vancouver
and the people that want tolive here and stay here, Um, so
(23:29):
I think that's really like afocus every day that people need
to understand we are trying tomake it better for for everybody
, regardless of what departmentwe're in or, um, what different
mandates come we.
We know what we have to do andeverybody feels the pressure
right now.
I know developers are feelingpressures.
(23:49):
You know we feel pressuresevery day to try and assist in
any way we can.
So just trying to continuallyget the word out, I think is
important.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, and I said before the podcast, you know
your inspectors that come by arevery good.
Before the podcast, you knowyour inspectors that come by are
very good.
I have to say, like we had anelectrical inspector come by,
super great guy, nice guy, camein.
You could tell years and yearsof experience.
It was just like oh so you knowwhen it works, it works very
(24:22):
well.
And I think, you know, I thinkthat there's sometimes there's
not enough credit given to thosepeople who do such a great job.
I think that there's also, likeyou know, we have this.
You know the housing crisis,you know, as we many talk about,
(24:44):
is a multifaceted problem.
You know it's also beingconflated with homelessness,
which isn't the same thing.
Yeah, you know, we have thiscrown jewel of the downtown and
Vancouver that is a shorelinelandlocked area.
You can't move into the water.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
You can't push people off the beach and't move into
the water.
You can't push people off thebeach and start building on the
water, so it does have to gobackwards, and this is the same
everywhere else in the world.
It's not a Vancouver uniqueexperience.
It's every coastal city that isbeautiful goes through the same
thing.
So the affordability side ofthings is very, very difficult
(25:27):
to do.
If developers want to make aspread per square foot, you
can't blame them for it.
I mean, they just want andactually you know, if I look at
some of the obviously we try notto name names in the podcast,
so I'm not going to but there'sa few developers in Vancouver
that have made the skylineabsolutely stunning.
They've done beautiful work anddefined the city and you know,
(25:50):
there, there, it seems as thoughthere's doesn't seem to be a
lot of, I think.
When do you think thatspeculation and trying to make
money off real estate all thetime is just the main issue here
, because it becomes such aneconomy?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I don't know.
I think we we went through aperiod of time when there was
high speculation and just youknow, land and people like
you've got to get your offer inand no conditions and yeah um,
and I feel that that's kind oflevel set a little bit From my
perspective is that we're tryingto be creative, we're trying to
(26:31):
bring in new forms ofdevelopment that will make the
city better around the multiplexthat we brought in last year,
where we thought we'd only get100 applications in a year, and
now we have over 390 in stream.
So it's things like that that.
I think, will just enhance thecity and make it better and give
more opportunities fordifferent kinds of housing for
(26:53):
people.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah Well, we now have this being in a time where
we're all looking to get as muchout of the same as possible.
The problem is, the same haschanged.
It's not the same anymore.
You know, years ago youwouldn't have known that apple's
(27:16):
a three trillion dollar companyit's true okay, we used to talk
about being a multi-millionaire, now it's a billionaire.
Okay, if you go 10, 15 yearsdown the road, it's going to be
2000 bucks a square footeverywhere because Apple's $3
trillion Everything keeps movingup.
(27:36):
Butter's $9.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Oh, I know, I grew up in the city of Vancouver so
I've seen it change over timeand there are things that, oh no
, it'll never get higher, it'llnever change.
The city skyline will stay thesame.
And just the amount of changethat's happened, especially in
the last, I'd say, 20 years, 20years yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Is substantial and just beyond what I ever imagined
.
Yeah, yeah, 20 years, yeah,like that.
I think you know the investmentin I don't know.
We're sort of getting off trackin terms of you know what, what
you do, but I think it it's allum, it's all collate, it's all
correlated in terms of where thepressure happens.
You get pressure from youroffice because people are trying
(28:37):
to squeeze something out of outof very little right, and it
puts a lot of pressure on youguys.
It's time, it's money, it'slike I need to get that done,
that's all.
It's money, it's like I need toget this done, and that's all
because everyone's trying to getsomething very quickly and
there's a lot of pressure aroundthat.
If we were as productive andsalaries like you know, I have a
team in the US and I have ateam in Canada the salaries
(28:59):
aren't the same.
Why?
It's because we don't get asmuch done.
We wish we would, but it's justnot the case.
So I think that, having thisshared self-esteem of the city
(29:23):
of Vancouver, I think it's lowon morale in general.
I hear it all the time I can'tmake money in Vancouver, it's
not a serious business city,blah, all that stuff.
I mean there's all the peoplecoming from overseas.
They just sit here.
No one goes to their apartments.
Like I look at apartments,they're all dark yeah I live in
a nice area, but it's all darkdown there.
I'm like what does?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
anybody live here?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
it's crazy and and you know the there's been all of
these programs that have gonein place and et cetera, for in
order to have, you know, tomitigate that.
But it's, yeah, it, as I said,everything is correlated to the
pressure that you guys have todeal with.
So, from it comes from digitaltransformation, it comes to
efficiencies, bottlenecks.
(30:04):
Everyone blames everything,every problem.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
On the city.
Yeah, well, they do.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, you know, and I think that you know, we've got
a lot of this isn't with thecity of Vancouver in terms of,
you know, planning and licensing, but I think the city's got a
lot of growing up to do andlicensing, but I think the
city's got a lot of growing upto do.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, I feel that in the last few years, the work
that is underway and continuesto be underway is going to come
to fruition, where it will behighlighted more broadly.
It's like you know, you got todo all that behind the scenes
work first before you can thenpromote the thing you know.
And then, even with our newgeneral manager of planning,
he's doing some fantastic workon that side of the house too.
(30:52):
So you know he's doing therezoning and the city plans, and
then you know we're reallyworking on efficiencies in
permitting and streamliningthings that way.
And then, just you know, youspeak a bit to.
You know people are leaving thecity and we're.
You know we've also donebusiness licensing in my
portfolio too, and we've done aton of work in that area as well
(31:15):
, just so people can get theirlicenses almost right away.
There's no backlog anymore andwe digitized all of that work.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So everything's online, do you?
Great, that's good to hear.
Oh, yeah, I, I know it comes.
It's so easy to do.
Yeah, now it is.
It's like oh, good job on that.
Very well done.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
You used to be a bit of a pain in the ass, yeah you
used to have to come in papereverything, and now it's like
all online, super quick.
Yeah, pay a credit card done.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
This has been super great.
Thank you very much for yourservice.
On behalf of everyone inVancouver, thank you for doing a
great job.
Thank you for sitting with me.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you for theinvitation.
Yeah, I know I got sort of inthe weeds in a multifaceted
conversation, but I thinkeverything is, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
It is.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
All right.
Well, it would be nice to haveyou again, maybe in the studio
and chat again, and sometimes wehave a glass of wine and do
that.
I don't know if you're allowedto do that in your city time,
but Maybe after hours.
Maybe after hours.
That's the right conversation.
This is why you're aprofessional.
Okay, corey?
Thank you very much.
I really appreciate your timeand enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, thanks for the conversation.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Okay, Thank you.
Well, that does it for anotherepisode of the Site Visit.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to stay connected withus by following our social
accounts on Instagram andYouTube.
You can also sign up for ourmonthly newsletter at
sitemaxsystemscom slash the sitevisit, where you'll get
(32:40):
industry insights, pro tips andeverything you need to know
about the Site Visit podcast andSitemax, the job site and
construction management tool ofchoice for thousands of
contractors in North America andbeyond.
Sitemax is also the engine thatpowers this podcast.
All right, let's get back tobuilding.
Welcome to the Site.
Visit Podcast.
Leadership and Perspective fromConstruction with your host,
james Faulkner.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Recorded live from the show floor at BuildX
Vancouver 2025.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
All right, I am very, very honored to have you here.
Thank you, corey O'Kell, fromthe city of Vancouver.
So you are the general managerof development, buildings and
licensing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yes, I am.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you, it's nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yes, here we are at BuildX.
So what do you think of theshow so far?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's pretty good.
So far, so good.
Yeah this is my second yearcoming down here.
Yeah, it's super interestingfar so good.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, this is my second year coming down here and
yeah, it's super interesting.
Yeah, it's kind of interesting,I guess, from being up at uh,
at your offices, you're up onbroadway and your whole foods.
There is that where you guysstill are now yeah, I'm at uh
10th and camby oh 10th and thevan city building is where our
offices are.
Okay, yeah, okay yeah I used togo in.
Oh yeah, no, that's right, yeah, okay, yeah, no, exactly,
you're um, so exactly where youare.
So you know, very, veryinteresting.
(01:05):
So from being at the office anddoing all the things you do
there and then coming down hereand then just getting that hyper
sense of there's so much goingon and so many lives and all
that all wrapped up and all ofthe things that you see on a
daily basis, pretty crazy right?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, it is pretty crazy Pretty crazy, right?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, it is pretty crazy, all right.
So we're going to talk todayabout you know processes with
City Hall, you know approvals intechnology, etc.
And you know sort of where yousee things going, what
progresses you've seen over timeand how things are going.
So let's just chat a little bitabout like digital
(01:45):
transformation.
So there's something that maybeyou could sort of shed some
light to this Does the push fortechnology always have to
address the lowest commondenominator for people to
provide access?
So let's just say, for instance, that a contractor is like a
low-tech contractor and they doeverything by paper, and is
(02:05):
there some kind of rules whereyou have to still allow people
to use paper if they want to?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Not anymore, not anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
So just take me through that.
In terms of when people pulldrawings from the city, are
those provided digitally nowonly only?
Or are they paper plans if theywant to pay for them?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, so we made a huge digital initial shift
through COVID.
Okay, so when we had to closedown our doors and not touching
anything we used to I mean,people used to line up, we used
to have rules of people bringingin their plans, and then we
implemented technology calledePlan so they could upload their
drawings either digitally orprovide as a PDF, and that's
(02:51):
when we started to just take ineverything in a digital format
and using technology to reviewthose plans and we stopped
taking in paper about a year agonow.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Okay, okay, interesting, okay.
Now, in terms of the formats,like at Cytomax, we have a
drawings module where you canupload your drawings, and so is
there with many uploads ofdrawings for construction
management software platforms.
There are requirements forthose types of drawings.
On what kind of formats thatthey are.
(03:21):
Is there any restrictions interms of a drawing being a flat
vector drawing versus, like, araster drawing, which would be a
PDF that has handwritten thingsin it, because a digital
document could be just a PDFwith photos in it.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, so right now it's pretty much we're taking in
PDFs for most things On ourother things, like for our
digital transformation, for ourlow density we're starting to
have specific kinds of formatsof those drawings that can be
uploaded, that are more of likethe 3D model instead of just
being a PDF.
(03:58):
Yeah, like a 2D drawing OkayInteresting.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So because I know that a lot of drawings that are
let's say they're rasterized,they're basically flat, so if
you were to zoom into them, theywould get blurry at some point
when you zoom in, keep zoomingin, Whereas a vector-based
drawing is resolutionindependent.
You keep zooming in and it justkeeps clearing itself up
because it's actually a line,Like a wall line would actually
(04:23):
be a coordinate in metadata inan actual document rather than a
photo yeah, so we're.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
We're working on having an integration so that we
can have different kinds ofdrawings in the pdfs that we
have right okay, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So is it this digital transformation?
What like bottom?
Like, have you you had peopleup in arms about it?
Has it been like?
Oh my God, it didn't used to belike this.
What sort of how do you heard?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, so from when we had to go just to paper, like
get rid of the paper and uploaddrawings, I think initially
there are some people that havebeen working with paper for
years and years and years.
It was a challenge for yearsand years and years.
it was a challenge, so we gaveleeway to try and get them to a
place where they could havedigital stamps and start to be
able to use the technology tohelp, and I think now it's just
(05:14):
common practice.
I think a lot of people don'tgo in person for things, so
their preference is to uploadsomething.
It makes us so.
We're 24-7.
You can upload drawings,drawings, you can upload your
questions into our portal, so Ithink it's given more
flexibility for industry forsure oh okay, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Um, so in terms of um , the sort of how often do are
you getting drawings and likethey're just wrong, like people
submit things and then there'schecking from Do you're looking
at?
Let's say that they get adigital drawing set from you and
(05:54):
then they modify that and thenthey make just a terrible error,
so something's totally out.
How much of a delay does thatcreate?
Typically, if somebody doesn'tget something quite right and
they're trying to get their youknow inspection done, for
instance?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
yeah, so.
So that does cause a lot ofback and forth because they
could upload it.
It may take a couple days forit to be reviewed, yeah, and
then if it's wrong, we have togo back to them, and that is one
of the key things is like, thequality of the submissions is
what started us on our digitaljourney.
That makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, the quality of submissions is hard because you
know sometimes, like you know,with not every renovation is
you're going to go to anarchitect for some.
Sometimes you know constructioncompanies have internal teams
that they know how to do CAD,they know how to do these
drawings, and it isn't anarchitect.
I mean, if you're going to doespecially with some of your
(06:52):
renovation projects, so maybe,maybe, um, this is something
that people don't know.
Is that what?
When did you um?
When did you um announce orrelease the program for
renovations under a certaindollar amount?
Uh, were able to get a permitin a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Okay, so it was about a year ago and we started a
residential renovation fasttrack.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, so people, if they're doing like a low scope
of renovation, they can uploadtheir drawings.
We review them within a coupleof days and then it's basically
an inspector goes out to verifythe work.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So that's allowed us for our 3331 platform from the
ABC party and our mayor andcouncil.
It's allowed us to meet thatfirst target of three days.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Okay, so ABC pushed that through.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
They ran on a platform of 3-3-3-1, which is
renovations within three days,low density within three weeks,
mid-rise within three months forpermits and then one year for
rezonings.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, so is the rezoning thinga gong show, like with the
laneway houses and all thatstuff?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, I don't know For larger developers.
Rezoning doesn't sit within mydepartment.
That sits in with planning andurban design.
But they did a lot of work inplanning around reducing the
zoning.
So bringing in for residentialzones like an R11, which allows
(08:25):
now multiplexes and much easierto apply for permits rather than
having to go through thatrezoning process.
It allows those to be builtbroadly throughout the city.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Okay, so what other transformations from a digital
point of view do you see comingdown the pike?
You were saying that somethings would be 3D modeled for
some of your larger projects.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, so I'll speak to what we're undergoing right
now.
Our main focus is low-densityhousing.
So a couple of years ago westarted our digital
transformation project and itwas really about that complete
application coming in, like wespoke about before.
So we found a lot of time inthe low-density housing stream.
People are often homeownerswanting to do their own work.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They may not hire an architect, and so they have a
lot of questions.
They don't know what to submit.
So we brought in a projectrequirement tool called PrEP is
what we call it where people cango and look at their lot and
say what do I want to build here, what could I build here?
And so they can enter a bunchof data into the system and I'll
(09:32):
say this is what you can buildon your lot, whether it's a
single family house in a lanewayor it's a multiplex or whatever
that might be, it actuallytells them what they can build
on their lot.
The second phase which we'repiloting right now is e-comply,
which then allows, when they getto like, oh I think I want to
(09:53):
build this here, they can submittheir drawings and it'll
basically right away reviewthose drawings and tell them
what does not comply with ourregulations.
So if the building's too big,if the setback's too small, so
it'll actually look at that forthem, and all that work out
front is then helping us getthem to where they can then
(10:14):
submit an application that is inmore compliance than it would
have been before thosetechnologies were implemented.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, that's pretty cool.
So and this is mostly obviouslylike for the detached single
family home, that is, these lotsare just not exploited for
density.
So is that the main goal ofCity of Vancouver to make sure
there's enough like lanewayhouses and all that are
obviously going to increasedensity within neighborhoods?
Is that kind of the mandate?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't know if that's our.
That's where we've started onthe digital path.
We want to expand that tohigher density with development
permits, building permits.
But we wanted to startsomewhere where it's very
repetitive and high volume.
So that allowed us to trial thesoftware and really see what's
working and what isn't, and thenengage with industry to see how
(11:00):
we have to change it to workfor them, to see how we have to
change it to work for them.
So that's everywhere, fromlaneway house, single family
dwelling, multiplex and duplexis all being trialed right now
in that scope.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Right, okay, yeah, it's so interesting for the
homeowner.
You hear this oh the city.
And how does that become moreof a symbiotic relationship
rather than an adversarial one?
It just seems like from youknow, as I was saying before the
(11:41):
podcast, lots of friendsthey've renovated, lots of
condos, done all this stuff.
I'd want to confirm that that'sall he did for a while.
And you hear oh the city, ohthe city, oh the city, oh the
city.
And this is all the complaintsI've heard over the years.
So how does it level set?
For is it the fact that maybeit's when people feel they have
(12:03):
ownership over something, itfeels like maybe they don't have
the autonomy they thought thatthey did?
Because I think that isprobably like the baseline of it
, the baseline of frustration.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, I feel that a lot of the time it's a shared
well, I know it's a sharedjourney.
So when we talked before thatthat you know we don't maybe get
a totally complete applicationand then they, um don't know
what they have to submit.
So there's a bit of back andforth and it's like, well, the
city's being unreasonable, um,but the implementation of these
(12:36):
tools.
Our goal is that there won't bethat back and forth anymore and
it isn't just the city, becausethey'll have provided us like
the best information possibleright away, which then helps us
to then expedite any kind ofadditional review we'd have to
do on our end.
And as soon as we get back tosomebody, if there's
deficiencies or things that theyhave to change, the sooner they
(12:58):
get back to us is the faster.
Then we'll get back to themwith their permit.
Right, okay, is the faster,then we'll get back to them with
their permit.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Right, okay, in terms of buildings that were built a
certain way in the past, andthen people want to do a
renovation and then they like aparticular format of something.
Maybe they want, I don't know,maybe they have, maybe there's
(13:29):
something that they know that onnew builds you can't have
anymore.
Maybe it's like a gas range orit's a something like that.
Right, and they're like hellbent on that and they want that
thing, and but they know, ifthey do a renovation over a
certain that, this, the citymight say well, you know, if
you're going to redo yourkitchen, you can't put this in
this time.
Is that does that like?
(13:49):
And there's probably a myriadof things that are the way the
building used to be, and if youwant to change it now, you have
to update it on a number ofthings that weren't actually in
your plan.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, yeah.
So that is a challenge I willagree that that many people
often face.
So there, you know, we know ourum.
Lots of homes within the cityare older and people maybe want
to upgrade them and they have tocomply with the new regulations
.
So it's not like you can goback in time to I don't know
1970 when your house was builtit.
(14:23):
Now, looking at at what thecode is today, because we're
trying to build that moreresilient city where you know,
looking at um, looking at thingslike code that's around, um,
it's failing me right now, butif there's an earthquake like we
, have I know seismic, there yougo, seismic yeah.
(14:43):
Right.
So, looking at you know, isthere a ability that they have
to do seismic upgrades?
And that's both residential andcommercial.
You know we always look foropportunities to make our city
better and if somebody's comingin and renovating in a
commercial building, quite oftenit's like well, how much of it
can you make more resilient andseismically upgrade?
(15:04):
And I know that that'sobviously a conversation that
goes around quite often and youknow we're trying to look at
ways to support business aroundthose things support homeowners,
but there are some code thingsthat they just have to comply
with that are hard, and that'swhy we often also tell them that
you know, hiring a professionalis usually will know exactly
(15:24):
what needs to happen and itmakes it a much more smoother
process for them as well.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Do you have like ancillary consultants that can
help people with this stuff?
Because I think there's this.
I think the fear for a lot ofpeople is and this is the
bottleneck a lot of people haveis this fear of the unknown.
I don't know who I'm dealingwith at the city.
It's this big bureaucracy.
They don't know who I'm dealingwith at the city.
It's this big bureaucracy.
They don't know.
There's no relationship untilmaybe an inspector's involved.
(15:52):
Other than that it's justemails.
But is there any?
Because I would think it wouldprobably help the city if you
guys could say well, if you wantto pay extra to this, we can
recommend somebody who canliaise with us to sort of smooth
(16:14):
out the bumps for you, becauseI think that there's sometimes a
communication gap in betweenthis and it creates an
adversarial relationship.
So is there any kind of bodythat does it besides regular
consultants?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, it would be hard for us to take a position
to be advising on who theyshould reach out to, because
we're just, you know, we'reneutral in that way.
But we're always open ifsomebody's having challenges and
sometimes when things getescalated to me, they're like,
oh, we've been going back andforth for six months on
(16:47):
something and I'm like, is thisthe first time it's been
escalated?
Have you talked to anybody else?
And they're like, no, wehaven't.
I'm like, okay, well, you couldhave.
You know, like we actuallyencourage people to request
in-person meetings if they don'tunderstand To request, or if it
has to be, you know, a teamsmeeting or whatever.
We encourage that because Ithink things get resolved so
(17:11):
much faster in person and it'sso much clarity is provided when
you can have that in-person,one-on-one with your project
facilitator or your projectcoordinator.
So we are encouraging that.
I mean that did shift throughCOVID and you know we're well
out of COVID and we're lookingout of COVID and we're looking
at a new model for our servicescenter where we can bring back
more of that one-on-oneinteraction where people can
(17:33):
come in and get advice from uson the projects they're trying
to undergo.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, I mean, you must have probably seen over the
years, thanks to YouTube,everyone kind of knows how to do
things these days, and probablypretty well.
I mean, there's things that alot of people would have had to
go to trade school to even learn.
Now it's like here I'll showyou how to do it, and that's got
to be complex for you guys,because everyone thinks they can
(17:59):
do it.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, we get doodles on napkins of people that think
they can.
This is the renovation I wantto do and it's just like hand
drawn and not understanding thatwe need something a little bit
more than that.
So I think there is a lot of doit yourselfers.
I think that sometimes thatcreates where they're not
pulling permits and then downthe road if they're wanting to
(18:24):
do something else on a largerscale and inspectors have to
come in or we're reviewingprevious plans, then you know
that can create issues as wellfor work that they've done on
their own that potentially theyshould have at least gotten a
permit for much headache.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
is it like if you could eliminate the the crap
drawings factor of ofsubmissions?
How much time do you think thattakes?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
like if you still get emails going back and forth
delays everything just becausethe drawing wasn't quite right
yeah, the drawing, theinformation provided, the
documents being provided and andwith the technology that's what
we're trying to eliminate isthat back and forth, so people
know right up front what theyneed to submit?
It takes weeks off of theprocess.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, it would.
So it would seem like anartificial intelligence layer
would be very helpful there,like immediately on submission,
for the AI to be able to giveyou an instant result.
That it's not right Somehow.
So if you were to submit adrawing, for instance, and
(19:30):
there's obviously clear errorsin it compared to another set,
because obviously you have apermanent application number and
that application number has thelot address and etc.
And it could have access tothose plans and it could collate
those things together andprovide here's where errors are
immediately or within fiveminutes, rather than taking a
(19:52):
week, because a week can turninto oh, I've got to do a
revision another week to anotherweek of approval to it, like
this could be way quicker.
So have you guys gone down thatroad of thinking of an
artificial intelligence layerfor drawing submissions?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, it's something I mean.
Ai is a buzzword nowadays.
Everybody's using it.
I think that there's a lot ofvalue in it.
There's a lot to still explorethere.
The technology that we're usingto look at plans does have a
bit of that component in itwhere it's like you're
submitting it and it's lookingat what complies and what
doesn't comply.
We're just at the initial trialperiod with that and then we're
(20:32):
going to be expanding that andgrowing on that in the upcoming
months and years.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, interesting.
So what I find something thatyou mentioned earlier is that
there was a push from citycouncil it's an ABC party at
that time to be able to get the3-3, what was it?
3-3?
3-3-3-1.
3-3-3-1.
(20:58):
Four years of having people inthere is a long time, and these
days things move so quickly,time and so these days things
move so quickly and it's, Ithink, what sometimes do you
(21:19):
feel that there is a disconnect,communication wise, between the
general public and City Hall,the building, your office, and
to sort of create someconfidence and level setting, I
think trying to get rid of theadversarial part, Because I'll
give you an example of somethingthat is crazy.
(21:41):
This is the feeling that thepublic has.
They'll see something for anapplication or plans to redo the
Granville District when all ourroads have holes everywhere.
What are we doing?
Get the basics down so peoplethink that is your department,
(22:02):
even though it's civil roads andall that.
Everyone thinks it's the samething.
Everyone says the city, thecity, the city, and you guys get
lumped into that and actuallyyou guys are doing a lot of work
.
This city is very complicated.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It is very complicated.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Huge amount of dollars and also, as you can
imagine, the compression ofinterest rates and developers
like up to here with pressure.
I mean, you've probably seenmany coloring books of all sorts
of situations where you're likeGod, this is crazy, what's
going on in the city.
So what do you think about that?
How can there be a lessadversarial relationship in
(22:42):
general, the general discourseand communication between the
public and the city?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, I you know what I think we I think we're doing
a really good job oncommunicating out all the work
that we're doing about theinitiatives that are underway.
I mean, for my department Iwork very closely with our
engineering team and ourplanning team to try and
coordinate that and get thatword out of all the work we're
trying to do, especially in thedevelopment realm and how can we
(23:07):
support developers?
Being a public servant, it'slike I want to serve my
community and make sure it's abetter place, regardless of what
else is going on, and knowingthat we're in a housing crisis,
and how can I support that andsupporting the city of Vancouver
and the people that want tolive here and stay here, Um, so
(23:29):
I think that's really like afocus every day that people need
to understand we are trying tomake it better for for everybody
, regardless of what departmentwe're in or, um, what different
mandates come we.
We know what we have to do andeverybody feels the pressure
right now.
I know developers are feelingpressures.
(23:49):
You know we feel pressuresevery day to try and assist in
any way we can.
So just trying to continuallyget the word out, I think is
important.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, and I said before the podcast, you know
your inspectors that come by arevery good.
Before the podcast, you knowyour inspectors that come by are
very good.
I have to say, like we had anelectrical inspector come by,
super great guy, nice guy, camein.
You could tell years and yearsof experience.
It was just like oh so you knowwhen it works, it works very
(24:22):
well.
And I think, you know, I thinkthat there's sometimes there's
not enough credit given to thosepeople who do such a great job.
I think that there's also, likeyou know, we have this.
You know the housing crisis,you know, as we many talk about,
(24:44):
is a multifaceted problem.
You know it's also beingconflated with homelessness,
which isn't the same thing.
Yeah, you know, we have thiscrown jewel of the downtown and
Vancouver that is a shorelinelandlocked area.
You can't move into the water.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
You can't push people off the beach and't move into
the water.
You can't push people off thebeach and start building on the
water, so it does have to gobackwards, and this is the same
everywhere else in the world.
It's not a Vancouver uniqueexperience.
It's every coastal city that isbeautiful goes through the same
thing.
So the affordability side ofthings is very, very difficult
(25:27):
to do.
If developers want to make aspread per square foot, you
can't blame them for it.
I mean, they just want andactually you know, if I look at
some of the obviously we try notto name names in the podcast,
so I'm not going to but there'sa few developers in Vancouver
that have made the skylineabsolutely stunning.
They've done beautiful work anddefined the city and you know,
(25:50):
there, there, it seems as thoughthere's doesn't seem to be a
lot of, I think.
When do you think thatspeculation and trying to make
money off real estate all thetime is just the main issue here
, because it becomes such aneconomy?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I don't know.
I think we we went through aperiod of time when there was
high speculation and just youknow, land and people like
you've got to get your offer inand no conditions and yeah um,
and I feel that that's kind oflevel set a little bit From my
perspective is that we're tryingto be creative, we're trying to
(26:31):
bring in new forms ofdevelopment that will make the
city better around the multiplexthat we brought in last year,
where we thought we'd only get100 applications in a year, and
now we have over 390 in stream.
So it's things like that that.
I think, will just enhance thecity and make it better and give
more opportunities fordifferent kinds of housing for
(26:53):
people.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah Well, we now have this being in a time where
we're all looking to get as muchout of the same as possible.
The problem is, the same haschanged.
It's not the same anymore.
You know, years ago youwouldn't have known that apple's
(27:16):
a three trillion dollar companyit's true okay, we used to talk
about being a multi-millionaire, now it's a billionaire.
Okay, if you go 10, 15 yearsdown the road, it's going to be
2000 bucks a square footeverywhere because Apple's $3
trillion Everything keeps movingup.
(27:36):
Butter's $9.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Oh, I know, I grew up in the city of Vancouver so
I've seen it change over timeand there are things that, oh no
, it'll never get higher, it'llnever change.
The city skyline will stay thesame.
And just the amount of changethat's happened, especially in
the last, I'd say, 20 years, 20years yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Is substantial and just beyond what I ever imagined
.
Yeah, yeah, 20 years, yeah,like that.
I think you know the investmentin I don't know.
We're sort of getting off trackin terms of you know what, what
you do, but I think it it's allum, it's all collate, it's all
correlated in terms of where thepressure happens.
You get pressure from youroffice because people are trying
(28:37):
to squeeze something out of outof very little right, and it
puts a lot of pressure on youguys.
It's time, it's money, it'slike I need to get that done,
that's all.
It's money, it's like I need toget this done, and that's all
because everyone's trying to getsomething very quickly and
there's a lot of pressure aroundthat.
If we were as productive andsalaries like you know, I have a
team in the US and I have ateam in Canada the salaries
(28:59):
aren't the same.
Why?
It's because we don't get asmuch done.
We wish we would, but it's justnot the case.
So I think that, having thisshared self-esteem of the city
(29:23):
of Vancouver, I think it's lowon morale in general.
I hear it all the time I can'tmake money in Vancouver, it's
not a serious business city,blah, all that stuff.
I mean there's all the peoplecoming from overseas.
They just sit here.
No one goes to their apartments.
Like I look at apartments,they're all dark yeah I live in
a nice area, but it's all darkdown there.
I'm like what does?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
anybody live here?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
it's crazy and and you know the there's been all of
these programs that have gonein place and et cetera, for in
order to have, you know, tomitigate that.
But it's, yeah, it, as I said,everything is correlated to the
pressure that you guys have todeal with.
So, from it comes from digitaltransformation, it comes to
efficiencies, bottlenecks.
(30:04):
Everyone blames everything,every problem.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
On the city.
Yeah, well, they do.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, you know, and I think that you know, we've got
a lot of this isn't with thecity of Vancouver in terms of,
you know, planning and licensing, but I think the city's got a
lot of growing up to do andlicensing, but I think the
city's got a lot of growing upto do.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, I feel that in the last few years, the work
that is underway and continuesto be underway is going to come
to fruition, where it will behighlighted more broadly.
It's like you know, you got todo all that behind the scenes
work first before you can thenpromote the thing you know.
And then, even with our newgeneral manager of planning,
he's doing some fantastic workon that side of the house too.
(30:52):
So you know he's doing therezoning and the city plans, and
then you know we're reallyworking on efficiencies in
permitting and streamliningthings that way.
And then, just you know, youspeak a bit to.
You know people are leaving thecity and we're.
You know we've also donebusiness licensing in my
portfolio too, and we've done aton of work in that area as well
(31:15):
, just so people can get theirlicenses almost right away.
There's no backlog anymore andwe digitized all of that work.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So everything's online, do you?
Great, that's good to hear.
Oh, yeah, I, I know it comes.
It's so easy to do.
Yeah, now it is.
It's like oh, good job on that.
Very well done.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
You used to be a bit of a pain in the ass, yeah you
used to have to come in papereverything, and now it's like
all online, super quick.
Yeah, pay a credit card done.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
This has been super great.
Thank you very much for yourservice.
On behalf of everyone inVancouver, thank you for doing a
great job.
Thank you for sitting with me.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you for theinvitation.
Yeah, I know I got sort of inthe weeds in a multifaceted
conversation, but I thinkeverything is, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
It is.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
All right.
Well, it would be nice to haveyou again, maybe in the studio
and chat again, and sometimes wehave a glass of wine and do
that.
I don't know if you're allowedto do that in your city time,
but Maybe after hours.
Maybe after hours.
That's the right conversation.
This is why you're aprofessional.
Okay, corey?
Thank you very much.
I really appreciate your timeand enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, thanks for the conversation.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Okay, Thank you.
Well, that does it for anotherepisode of the Site Visit.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to stay connected withus by following our social
accounts on Instagram andYouTube.
You can also sign up for ourmonthly newsletter at
sitemaxsystemscom slash the sitevisit, where you'll get
(32:40):
industry insights, pro tips andeverything you need to know
about the Site Visit podcast andSitemax, the job site and
construction management tool ofchoice for thousands of
contractors in North America andbeyond.
Sitemax is also the engine thatpowers this podcast.
All right, let's get back tobuilding.
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