April 27, 2025 • 18 mins
What does authentic autism advocacy look like when powered by faith? Ron Sandison offers a compelling answer in this thought-provoking conversation from the International Autism Summit. As a mental health professional speaking to over 30,000 people annually across 70 events worldwide, Ron brings a unique perspective shaped by his extraordinary gift—15,000 scriptures memorized word-perfect—and his journey as one of only two openly autistic licensed ministers in the Assemblies of God's 114-year history.
Ron takes us behind the pages of his new book, "Adulting on the Spectrum," revealing the critical connection challenges autistic individuals face. "Most of us are like old, 30-year-old Velcro shoes—we don't connect well," he explains, before outlining his three-part framework for building meaningful relationships through mentoring, marketing, and the ability to delight others. Through powerful stories and accessible metaphors, Ron demonstrates how identifying personal strengths while accommodating limitations can transform an autistic person's relationship with both the world and themselves.
The conversation tackles persistent misconceptions head-on, particularly the damaging assertion that autism can be "outgrown." Ron eloquently describes how autism's manifestation evolves from childhood meltdowns to adult "neuro-crashes," emphasizing that sensory challenges persist regardless of outward appearance or public speaking abilities. His vision for truly inclusive faith communities goes beyond token participation, advocating for autistic voices in leadership positions where they can influence institutional change. Most powerfully, Ron introduces his concept of developing a "hope complex" through spiritual connection, offering neurodivergent individuals an antidote to the "hopeless complex" that often accompanies autism's social and employment challenges. Whether you're autistic, support someone who is, or simply want to understand neurodiversity through a spiritual lens, Ron's insights will transform your perspective on advocacy, faith, and human potential.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi and thank you for joining us here at the second
annual International AutismSummit.
Today we are doing apre-recorded interview with one
of our favorite, favoritefriends and advocates, ron
Sanderson.
Ron, thank you so much foragreeing to pre-record this
panel message for us so that wecould include you in the summit
(00:24):
this year.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
message for us so that we could include you in the
summit this year.
Well, thanks so much for havingme.
I just wish I could be in Utah,where it's nice and warm
Michigan's kind of cold still.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, it is getting to be real nice.
This week It'll be in the 70s,so looking forward to that for
sure.
Well, I'm so excited to haveyou and I want to first give you
a huge thank you, because youhave donated your new book to
our auction or silent auction,and so I hope everybody's going
over and bidding to get theircopy of Adulting on the Spectrum
.
I'm really, really excited toget into this book and I can't
(01:00):
wait to hear the feedback fromeveryone.
So before we get, just jumpinto these questions.
For everyone that hasn't heardof you or doesn't know who you
are, give us a littleintroduction and then we'll jump
into these.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So I'm a mental health worker.
I speak at 70 events a year onautism.
30,000 people just got backfrom speaking in New York,
kansas, tulsa and Missouri and Ispeak all around the world on
autism and I have fourtraditionally published books
and one of the things I'm doingnow is I have the Honey Badger
Verse of the Day and you can goon Instagram to see the videos
(01:39):
or on YouTube.
I average about 5,000 views aweek and I have a unique gift
15,000 scriptures memorized wordperfect, including 22 books in
New Testament.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
That's incredible, ron.
I'm sure people wonder how inthe world did you get to
memorize all of those scriptures?
But just practice and passion.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Temple Grandin said it best Talent attracts mentors.
In my junior year of highschool I memorized 2,000 Bible
verses and the person who hadthe most in the world memorized
at the time, dr Jack Van Impey15,000.
He had an open house and when Imet him he found out I had a
bunch of verses memorized at age18, like a baton he got.
(02:29):
He quoted 50 verses.
I gave him word reference onthem and he said you have a
talent, I'm going to help yourefine it.
And from him I learned how toactually memorize efficiently.
Where you put them on notecards, you memorize by subject
and you go over them once amonth, each verse and the ones
you've had memorized for a longtime once every two months, and
(02:50):
then they'll stick forever.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's amazing, ron.
We're so proud of you for that.
And what an amazing talent andthank goodness you had such a
cool mentor to help you.
You know polish it and narrowit down and everything.
That's great.
Well, you know you mentionedyou memorize over 15,000
scriptures and you've authoredseveral books too.
(03:14):
How has your faith shaped yourautism advocacy in your daily
life?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So I think the way my faith has shaped my advocacy is
that we have a great advocatein Christ and he teaches us how
to advocate.
In fact, he used a parable inLuke 18, 1 through 6, about the
unjust judge and the widow whokept coming to grant me justice
against my adversary, and Ithink that we can learn from
(03:40):
that.
The actual Greek word there forcoming is chepes, and it's a
raw, steel individual, like ahoney badger, who keeps coming
and doesn't give up.
And I think, as people on thespectrum, we need to advocate
and advocate until we get ouraccommodation and we should
never give up in advocacybecause it takes a while for
(04:04):
there to be change.
My senior year of high school,they wouldn't let people past
the age limit compete innon-contact sports in high
school and I had to go all theway to Cincinnati courts and
challenge the rule of theMichigan High School Athletic
Association.
I won my case.
Later on it became a presentsetting case.
So people with autism and otherdisabilities who are in a
(04:26):
non-contact sport like track orcross country are able to
compete past the age limit.
And I think that we need tohave that Chavez attitude steel,
raw individual.
We keep coming and we don'tgive up.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I love that Wonderful answer on that one.
I love that I have your newbook here, adulting on the
Spectrum.
Everybody who hasn't got a copygo over to the auction, bid on
your copy and get yourself thiscopy.
You share personal insights andlessons from your own journeys.
What's one thing you hope thatevery young person hears from
(05:04):
your book?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
The one thing I want everyone to realize on the
autism spectrum and this willhelp you connect Most of us are
like old, 30-year-old Velcroshoes we don't connect well Is
this we learn to take ourstrengths and adapt and
accommodate for our limitations.
We build connections.
When I was in college I went tocollege with a guy and his name
(05:26):
was Ryan Tatter and he had onedream to influence the world
with music.
He knew his strength was music.
He knew his limitation was heonly had a Yamaha keyboard.
It was from Kmart, it was $50.
So he didn't have greatequipment and there wasn't
social media, so a lot of peopledidn't hear of his music.
So he didn't have greatequipment and there wasn't
social media, so a lot of peopledidn't hear of his music.
(05:47):
So what he did was this helooked for connections.
He realized that in Tulsa,every corner you have a
megachurch.
So he went there to thesemegachurchs that said I'd love
to do concerts and use yourequipment and be able to record.
And he ended up being able todo concerts and record on DVDs
and CDs his music.
And then, when he graduatedwith his marketing degree, he
(06:09):
went where he knew his gift wasneeded and that was Tennessee
and, as preparation mean,opportunity would have it, mtv
showed up at the hotel where hegot a job and he turned in his
DVD, won Battle of the Bands andthe rest is history.
Won Republic.
He wrote the song We'll BeCounting Stars, halo and many
(06:34):
others and just the one song,fiancee's Song, made over 4.5
million.
But people with autism, we don'tknow how to find those
connections.
We don't know how to adapt toour environment using our
strengths and overcome ourlimitations.
My book, adulting on theSpectrum, will teach people how
to do that and then they won'tbe like 30-year-old Velcro shoes
(06:57):
be able to connect.
And then connection has threeparts mentoring and support team
has three parts mentoring andsupport team, marketing and then
, finally, ability to delight.
People with autism a lot oftimes have difficulty filtering,
make it difficult to have theability to delight.
(07:18):
And by learning those skillsthe skies are the limits.
If you shoot for the stars andyou miss, you just might moon
someone and hit the moon.
And that's what my book isgoing to teach you is how to
develop those skills, how to seeconnections and how to make
those connections in the jobopportunities into relationship
opportunities, intoopportunities to impact your
(07:41):
world.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I love that you know you had said that you speak at
over 70 events a year.
Congratulations on that, by theway.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Is there any?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
reoccurring questions or misconceptions that come up
that you often hear and want totalk about today.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yes, one of the ones that really comes up a lot is
you don't look autistic.
I just had that happen when Ispoke to 250 people at the
largest church, in UMC Church inthe United States, resurrection
Church, and I always respondthis way.
My mom said this when I wasseven years old and someone said
(08:25):
in the congregation you don'tlook autistic, I'd love for him
to have a full blown meltdown.
And you say he doesn't lookautistic.
And even this day I still haveautistic moments.
Easter we were going to abrunch.
The place we went to brunch hadprobably 300 people in there
(08:46):
and I was sensory overwhelmedand the sensory overwhelm makes
me very difficult being able toadapt to my environment.
And even though I speak to largeaudiences, it's something
different when people arebanging into you with plates
filled with steak or salmon thatsmells like high heaven and I
(09:09):
think that it's a misconception.
Is that when we get older welose autism and that you outgrow
autism.
That's another thing.
You must have outgrown autism.
Be speaking with big white signin a large church.
I don't outgrow autism.
It just affects me differentlyas I get older and it affects me
(09:31):
less with meltdowns and morewith neuro-overwhelm and then
neuro-crashes.
What I mean neuro-crashesthey're different than meltdowns
when you're an adult.
When I was a kid, if I was inthat environment I would have
been screaming.
That whole buffet would havebeen going up in the air.
But now what happens is when Iget home from that event, I have
(09:54):
neuro crash and I just lose allmy energy and I just go to bed
early.
So I think that autism changesas we get older and people don't
always realize it, and alsothat kids with autism they're
going to grow up to be adultswith autism and people don't
talk about that and that needsto be a subject.
And again, adulting on thespectrum realize that there's
(10:18):
adults on the spectrum.
I can't it went out for asecond.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I know Darn it Technical things for a second.
I know, darn it Technicalthings, right?
Yeah, oh, that's to be expected.
We just roll with the puncheshere.
But no, I like how you saidthat and I think that you're
right about.
You have to re, you refineyourself as you grow, whether
you're typical or autistic, youknow you refine yourself, you
(11:09):
refine your skills, you refineyour autistic um challenges or
you know your support, likeyou're able to get more supports
or less if you're an adult andyou're non-speaking.
That must be tricky, but youknow.
You know there's just so muchto still be understood and to be
(11:31):
advocated for and I love that.
Now you know.
I think a big question in thecommunity is because there are
so many churches.
How can churches andcommunities become more
inclusive for autisticindividuals and their families?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So here's how Inclusion is getting people in
the door.
Diversity is having people withdifferent neurological ways of
interpreting, and belongingmeans they have a voice at the
table, and I think that one ofthe most important things we can
do is help people with autismhave a voice at the table.
And I think that one of themost important things we can do
is help people with autism havea voice at the table and in fact
(12:11):
, when they're in places ofleadership, they're actually
making decisions.
And it can start out smallinclusion and that could be
having someone with autism readthe daily prayers that are for
the church or read the scripturefor the day, and then it can
move up to a position wherethey're actually over people and
(12:36):
helping them, maybe as a youthpastor, maybe as a youth
volunteer working in the Sundayschool program.
But until they have a voice atthe table, we're just acting
like they're actually included.
And I look at the Assemblies ofGod.
I just got licensed in theAssemblies of God last November
(13:00):
and I'm the first licensedAssemblies of God minister.
Now there's two.
There's one in England too, afemale who's on the spectrum,
but the history is 114 years andwe know that now one in every
31 people is diagnosed withautism, so that's about 5%.
(13:22):
Then why have 38,000 people?
Why are there only two that theAssemblies of God are
acknowledging as being on theautism spectrum who are actually
saying they're on the autismspectrum?
Statistically, it should behundreds if there's 38,000
licensed and ordained ministersin the Assemblies of God.
But I think that once we getour voice heard, once we get in
(13:45):
those positions where we're ableto influence the church, things
are going to change.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I love that.
I hope so, I really do, and Ithink that you're doing
wonderful work and I'm reallygrateful that you and this other
woman in England are, you know,heading kind of pioneering the
leadership role in this, andmore to come, more to come for
sure.
Look up to you, you know, asI'm sure many young autistics do
(14:21):
, and say I'm gonna, I'm gonnashoot for the stars, just like
Ron Sanderson, you know, withyour background, how do you see
the intersection of spiritualsupport and mental health
playing a role forneurodivergent individuals in
the community?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
So, I see it this way is that 80% of people with
autism suffer from anxiety ormental health issues and if we
can get a place where we developa hope complex, we can change
that.
A lot of people with autism,due to bullying, communication
struggles, relationshipstruggles, chronic
(14:57):
underemployment or unemployment,have experienced a hopeless
complex.
If we can develop aspirituality where we connect
with Christ, where we connectwith God and we use our talents,
then we're going to developself-efficiency and that's the
belief that if I begin somethingI'm able to carry on to
completion.
That's what the hope complex isit's self-realization.
(15:21):
I like sharing this story.
There's a shepherd he's a goodshepherd Takes his sheep to
green pastures and waters themevery day.
One day he hears an unusualsound.
It sounds like this.
So he goes and investigates andhe finds a little lion cub
whose mom was killed by apoacher.
(15:42):
He starts raising the lion cubwith the sheep and it becomes
skittish like a sheep.
It actually thinks it's a sheep.
Four years goes by Now the lioncub who thinks he's a sheep
becomes a lion who thinks he's asheep.
And one day the shepherd'staking a noonday nap, hears a
scuffle, sees a lion coming uponthe flock.
(16:02):
The lion, who thinks he's asheep is running, the sheep are
running.
He bats the lion over the headand later in the day he takes
the lion who thinks he's a sheepand the sheep to a pond to get
water to drink.
And the lion who thinks he's asheep sees his reflection, he
realizes true identity.
He's a king of the jungle andit was pretty bad for those
(16:24):
sheep after that and a lot oftimes with autism, with
spirituality, with mental health, we are kind of sheepish.
We don't realize our gifts, ourtalent, and that we can connect
with a living God and use ourgifts and develop
self-efficiency and do amazingthings.
And that's one of the things Iwant to help is spirituality,
(16:47):
mental health and that hopecomplex.
In fact, that's what my fifthbook is going to be on
developing a hope complex,proactive approach to mental
health.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I love that, ron.
That's really, really importantfor our youth and our society
today.
I think that's going to be areally big, big book to come out
and really help hundreds,thousands of people.
What's been so great to catchup with you and it's so fun to
be able to watch probably forboth of us how much you have
(17:20):
grown over the years and seeeach other's.
You know, different summits andevents and books coming out,
and so I'm just so glad to sharethis space on this journey with
you and have you here with metoday, and we'll get you to Salt
Lake soon enough, I promise youyeah.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I've already been to the Salt Lake and on the Dead
Sea and I'd love to see the SaltLake in Utah and floating on
the water.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
That's right.
It is very interesting.
It's an interesting experience,that's for sure.
Well, gosh, it's been so muchfun to meet with you today.
Thanks again for your time andreally thank you from me and the
whole community for the value,the work, the authenticity you
(18:09):
bring.
I'm just so proud and honoredto be your friend, to have you
here and just to share yourmessage with everyone for the
International Autism Summit thisyear.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me and remember the
Honey Badger Versa Day onInstagram and YouTube.
Get inspired today, get animpact, powerful word and
subscribe.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Love that, Ron.
Thank you.
Hi and thank you for joining us here at the second
annual International AutismSummit.
Today we are doing apre-recorded interview with one
of our favorite, favoritefriends and advocates, ron
Sanderson.
Ron, thank you so much foragreeing to pre-record this
panel message for us so that wecould include you in the summit
(00:24):
this year.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
message for us so that we could include you in the
summit this year.
Well, thanks so much for havingme.
I just wish I could be in Utah,where it's nice and warm
Michigan's kind of cold still.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, it is getting to be real nice.
This week It'll be in the 70s,so looking forward to that for
sure.
Well, I'm so excited to haveyou and I want to first give you
a huge thank you, because youhave donated your new book to
our auction or silent auction,and so I hope everybody's going
over and bidding to get theircopy of Adulting on the Spectrum
.
I'm really, really excited toget into this book and I can't
(01:00):
wait to hear the feedback fromeveryone.
So before we get, just jumpinto these questions.
For everyone that hasn't heardof you or doesn't know who you
are, give us a littleintroduction and then we'll jump
into these.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So I'm a mental health worker.
I speak at 70 events a year onautism.
30,000 people just got backfrom speaking in New York,
kansas, tulsa and Missouri and Ispeak all around the world on
autism and I have fourtraditionally published books
and one of the things I'm doingnow is I have the Honey Badger
Verse of the Day and you can goon Instagram to see the videos
(01:39):
or on YouTube.
I average about 5,000 views aweek and I have a unique gift
15,000 scriptures memorized wordperfect, including 22 books in
New Testament.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
That's incredible, ron.
I'm sure people wonder how inthe world did you get to
memorize all of those scriptures?
But just practice and passion.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Temple Grandin said it best Talent attracts mentors.
In my junior year of highschool I memorized 2,000 Bible
verses and the person who hadthe most in the world memorized
at the time, dr Jack Van Impey15,000.
He had an open house and when Imet him he found out I had a
bunch of verses memorized at age18, like a baton he got.
(02:29):
He quoted 50 verses.
I gave him word reference onthem and he said you have a
talent, I'm going to help yourefine it.
And from him I learned how toactually memorize efficiently.
Where you put them on notecards, you memorize by subject
and you go over them once amonth, each verse and the ones
you've had memorized for a longtime once every two months, and
(02:50):
then they'll stick forever.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's amazing, ron.
We're so proud of you for that.
And what an amazing talent andthank goodness you had such a
cool mentor to help you.
You know polish it and narrowit down and everything.
That's great.
Well, you know you mentionedyou memorize over 15,000
scriptures and you've authoredseveral books too.
(03:14):
How has your faith shaped yourautism advocacy in your daily
life?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So I think the way my faith has shaped my advocacy is
that we have a great advocatein Christ and he teaches us how
to advocate.
In fact, he used a parable inLuke 18, 1 through 6, about the
unjust judge and the widow whokept coming to grant me justice
against my adversary, and Ithink that we can learn from
(03:40):
that.
The actual Greek word there forcoming is chepes, and it's a
raw, steel individual, like ahoney badger, who keeps coming
and doesn't give up.
And I think, as people on thespectrum, we need to advocate
and advocate until we get ouraccommodation and we should
never give up in advocacybecause it takes a while for
(04:04):
there to be change.
My senior year of high school,they wouldn't let people past
the age limit compete innon-contact sports in high
school and I had to go all theway to Cincinnati courts and
challenge the rule of theMichigan High School Athletic
Association.
I won my case.
Later on it became a presentsetting case.
So people with autism and otherdisabilities who are in a
(04:26):
non-contact sport like track orcross country are able to
compete past the age limit.
And I think that we need tohave that Chavez attitude steel,
raw individual.
We keep coming and we don'tgive up.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I love that Wonderful answer on that one.
I love that I have your newbook here, adulting on the
Spectrum.
Everybody who hasn't got a copygo over to the auction, bid on
your copy and get yourself thiscopy.
You share personal insights andlessons from your own journeys.
What's one thing you hope thatevery young person hears from
(05:04):
your book?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
The one thing I want everyone to realize on the
autism spectrum and this willhelp you connect Most of us are
like old, 30-year-old Velcroshoes we don't connect well Is
this we learn to take ourstrengths and adapt and
accommodate for our limitations.
We build connections.
When I was in college I went tocollege with a guy and his name
(05:26):
was Ryan Tatter and he had onedream to influence the world
with music.
He knew his strength was music.
He knew his limitation was heonly had a Yamaha keyboard.
It was from Kmart, it was $50.
So he didn't have greatequipment and there wasn't
social media, so a lot of peopledidn't hear of his music.
So he didn't have greatequipment and there wasn't
social media, so a lot of peopledidn't hear of his music.
(05:47):
So what he did was this helooked for connections.
He realized that in Tulsa,every corner you have a
megachurch.
So he went there to thesemegachurchs that said I'd love
to do concerts and use yourequipment and be able to record.
And he ended up being able todo concerts and record on DVDs
and CDs his music.
And then, when he graduatedwith his marketing degree, he
(06:09):
went where he knew his gift wasneeded and that was Tennessee
and, as preparation mean,opportunity would have it, mtv
showed up at the hotel where hegot a job and he turned in his
DVD, won Battle of the Bands andthe rest is history.
Won Republic.
He wrote the song We'll BeCounting Stars, halo and many
(06:34):
others and just the one song,fiancee's Song, made over 4.5
million.
But people with autism, we don'tknow how to find those
connections.
We don't know how to adapt toour environment using our
strengths and overcome ourlimitations.
My book, adulting on theSpectrum, will teach people how
to do that and then they won'tbe like 30-year-old Velcro shoes
(06:57):
be able to connect.
And then connection has threeparts mentoring and support team
has three parts mentoring andsupport team, marketing and then
, finally, ability to delight.
People with autism a lot oftimes have difficulty filtering,
make it difficult to have theability to delight.
(07:18):
And by learning those skillsthe skies are the limits.
If you shoot for the stars andyou miss, you just might moon
someone and hit the moon.
And that's what my book isgoing to teach you is how to
develop those skills, how to seeconnections and how to make
those connections in the jobopportunities into relationship
opportunities, intoopportunities to impact your
(07:41):
world.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I love that you know you had said that you speak at
over 70 events a year.
Congratulations on that, by theway.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Is there any?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
reoccurring questions or misconceptions that come up
that you often hear and want totalk about today.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yes, one of the ones that really comes up a lot is
you don't look autistic.
I just had that happen when Ispoke to 250 people at the
largest church, in UMC Church inthe United States, resurrection
Church, and I always respondthis way.
My mom said this when I wasseven years old and someone said
(08:25):
in the congregation you don'tlook autistic, I'd love for him
to have a full blown meltdown.
And you say he doesn't lookautistic.
And even this day I still haveautistic moments.
Easter we were going to abrunch.
The place we went to brunch hadprobably 300 people in there
(08:46):
and I was sensory overwhelmedand the sensory overwhelm makes
me very difficult being able toadapt to my environment.
And even though I speak to largeaudiences, it's something
different when people arebanging into you with plates
filled with steak or salmon thatsmells like high heaven and I
(09:09):
think that it's a misconception.
Is that when we get older welose autism and that you outgrow
autism.
That's another thing.
You must have outgrown autism.
Be speaking with big white signin a large church.
I don't outgrow autism.
It just affects me differentlyas I get older and it affects me
(09:31):
less with meltdowns and morewith neuro-overwhelm and then
neuro-crashes.
What I mean neuro-crashesthey're different than meltdowns
when you're an adult.
When I was a kid, if I was inthat environment I would have
been screaming.
That whole buffet would havebeen going up in the air.
But now what happens is when Iget home from that event, I have
(09:54):
neuro crash and I just lose allmy energy and I just go to bed
early.
So I think that autism changesas we get older and people don't
always realize it, and alsothat kids with autism they're
going to grow up to be adultswith autism and people don't
talk about that and that needsto be a subject.
And again, adulting on thespectrum realize that there's
(10:18):
adults on the spectrum.
I can't it went out for asecond.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I know Darn it Technical things for a second.
I know, darn it Technicalthings, right?
Yeah, oh, that's to be expected.
We just roll with the puncheshere.
But no, I like how you saidthat and I think that you're
right about.
You have to re, you refineyourself as you grow, whether
you're typical or autistic, youknow you refine yourself, you
(11:09):
refine your skills, you refineyour autistic um challenges or
you know your support, likeyou're able to get more supports
or less if you're an adult andyou're non-speaking.
That must be tricky, but youknow.
You know there's just so muchto still be understood and to be
(11:31):
advocated for and I love that.
Now you know.
I think a big question in thecommunity is because there are
so many churches.
How can churches andcommunities become more
inclusive for autisticindividuals and their families?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So here's how Inclusion is getting people in
the door.
Diversity is having people withdifferent neurological ways of
interpreting, and belongingmeans they have a voice at the
table, and I think that one ofthe most important things we can
do is help people with autismhave a voice at the table.
And I think that one of themost important things we can do
is help people with autism havea voice at the table and in fact
(12:11):
, when they're in places ofleadership, they're actually
making decisions.
And it can start out smallinclusion and that could be
having someone with autism readthe daily prayers that are for
the church or read the scripturefor the day, and then it can
move up to a position wherethey're actually over people and
(12:36):
helping them, maybe as a youthpastor, maybe as a youth
volunteer working in the Sundayschool program.
But until they have a voice atthe table, we're just acting
like they're actually included.
And I look at the Assemblies ofGod.
I just got licensed in theAssemblies of God last November
(13:00):
and I'm the first licensedAssemblies of God minister.
Now there's two.
There's one in England too, afemale who's on the spectrum,
but the history is 114 years andwe know that now one in every
31 people is diagnosed withautism, so that's about 5%.
(13:22):
Then why have 38,000 people?
Why are there only two that theAssemblies of God are
acknowledging as being on theautism spectrum who are actually
saying they're on the autismspectrum?
Statistically, it should behundreds if there's 38,000
licensed and ordained ministersin the Assemblies of God.
But I think that once we getour voice heard, once we get in
(13:45):
those positions where we're ableto influence the church, things
are going to change.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I love that.
I hope so, I really do, and Ithink that you're doing
wonderful work and I'm reallygrateful that you and this other
woman in England are, you know,heading kind of pioneering the
leadership role in this, andmore to come, more to come for
sure.
Look up to you, you know, asI'm sure many young autistics do
(14:21):
, and say I'm gonna, I'm gonnashoot for the stars, just like
Ron Sanderson, you know, withyour background, how do you see
the intersection of spiritualsupport and mental health
playing a role forneurodivergent individuals in
the community?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
So, I see it this way is that 80% of people with
autism suffer from anxiety ormental health issues and if we
can get a place where we developa hope complex, we can change
that.
A lot of people with autism,due to bullying, communication
struggles, relationshipstruggles, chronic
(14:57):
underemployment or unemployment,have experienced a hopeless
complex.
If we can develop aspirituality where we connect
with Christ, where we connectwith God and we use our talents,
then we're going to developself-efficiency and that's the
belief that if I begin somethingI'm able to carry on to
completion.
That's what the hope complex isit's self-realization.
(15:21):
I like sharing this story.
There's a shepherd he's a goodshepherd Takes his sheep to
green pastures and waters themevery day.
One day he hears an unusualsound.
It sounds like this.
So he goes and investigates andhe finds a little lion cub
whose mom was killed by apoacher.
(15:42):
He starts raising the lion cubwith the sheep and it becomes
skittish like a sheep.
It actually thinks it's a sheep.
Four years goes by Now the lioncub who thinks he's a sheep
becomes a lion who thinks he's asheep.
And one day the shepherd'staking a noonday nap, hears a
scuffle, sees a lion coming uponthe flock.
(16:02):
The lion, who thinks he's asheep is running, the sheep are
running.
He bats the lion over the headand later in the day he takes
the lion who thinks he's a sheepand the sheep to a pond to get
water to drink.
And the lion who thinks he's asheep sees his reflection, he
realizes true identity.
He's a king of the jungle andit was pretty bad for those
(16:24):
sheep after that and a lot oftimes with autism, with
spirituality, with mental health, we are kind of sheepish.
We don't realize our gifts, ourtalent, and that we can connect
with a living God and use ourgifts and develop
self-efficiency and do amazingthings.
And that's one of the things Iwant to help is spirituality,
(16:47):
mental health and that hopecomplex.
In fact, that's what my fifthbook is going to be on
developing a hope complex,proactive approach to mental
health.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I love that, ron.
That's really, really importantfor our youth and our society
today.
I think that's going to be areally big, big book to come out
and really help hundreds,thousands of people.
What's been so great to catchup with you and it's so fun to
be able to watch probably forboth of us how much you have
(17:20):
grown over the years and seeeach other's.
You know, different summits andevents and books coming out,
and so I'm just so glad to sharethis space on this journey with
you and have you here with metoday, and we'll get you to Salt
Lake soon enough, I promise youyeah.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I've already been to the Salt Lake and on the Dead
Sea and I'd love to see the SaltLake in Utah and floating on
the water.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
That's right.
It is very interesting.
It's an interesting experience,that's for sure.
Well, gosh, it's been so muchfun to meet with you today.
Thanks again for your time andreally thank you from me and the
whole community for the value,the work, the authenticity you
(18:09):
bring.
I'm just so proud and honoredto be your friend, to have you
here and just to share yourmessage with everyone for the
International Autism Summit thisyear.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me and remember the
Honey Badger Versa Day onInstagram and YouTube.
Get inspired today, get animpact, powerful word and
subscribe.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Love that, Ron.
Thank you.
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