December 9, 2024 • 27 mins
Facing the complexities of divorce is challenging enough, but when special needs are involved, the journey can feel even more daunting. Join us as we explore this sensitive topic with Mary Ann, a special needs divorce coach who has not only lived through the experience but has dedicated her career to helping others navigate these turbulent waters. Through her work with Special Family Transitions, Mary Ann offers invaluable insights into managing the emotional and logistical hurdles of divorce, especially for families with children on the autism spectrum. We discuss the high divorce rates in these communities and the urgent need for resources that prioritize the well-being of children, while also fostering effective communication between all parties involved.
Throughout our candid conversation, we emphasize the critical role self-care plays in maintaining emotional balance during a divorce. Mary Ann shares practical strategies like exercise and gratitude to mitigate stress, along with the importance of treating interactions with an ex-spouse professionally to encourage amicable resolutions. Looking ahead, Mary Ann reveals her plans to launch a private Facebook group in 2025, designed to offer a supportive community for families facing similar challenges. This episode isn't just a guide through the storm; it's an empowering toolkit, providing listeners with the understanding and support needed to focus on positive outcomes during one of life's most difficult transitions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi and thanks for joining the SG Child Show today.
I'm so excited for thisconversation.
First off, I absolutely was sothrilled to find someone like
Marianne that was out theredoing this amazing work that I
hadn't seen before.
So that's exciting because weall want to, you know, find
(00:30):
something that maybe we hadn'tthought could help in a
situation or an area of familieslives in something that is a
very vulnerable and hard timefor families to go through, the
(00:51):
time where they need the mostsupport, and that is divorce.
And so we're going to touch onsome of these subjects today, so
they might be sensitive.
Or, you know, get your Kleenexboxes just in case, because I
should have brought mine, infact, because I know I'm
probably going to cry a littlebit, but that's okay.
You know, the great part aboutit is really focusing and
(01:11):
highlighting the service thatshe's providing for these
families and, through this, thedelicate times that they're
going through.
So, marianne, it's such apleasure to have you here.
I'm so, so excited to talk toyou.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Thanks, sarah, so excited to be here.
Thanks for inviting me on yourshow.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, absolutely, and you know you were part of the
one in 36 mix too, and I'm soglad that we connected and you
were able to share what you doin that summit, because I know
that it brought a lot ofattention for people who, even
people who reached out to me andsaid, hey, could I, you know,
(01:51):
find somebody that could help me, and so I was able to recommend
.
So thank you so much.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself and kind of what
brought you to the destination.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Sure.
So I'm a mom of two now youngadults on opposite ends of the
autism spectrum.
They're now in their earlytwenties, and several years ago
I faced an unexpected divorce,and so I had to figure out how
to navigate that but also how totake care of my kids, and in
(02:25):
the process I learned so much.
I learned that there weren'tmany resources out there to help
, but I did do the legwork.
I had to get a team of people.
I had to educate them, educatemyself, and so I thought it was
kind of silly, for the highdivorce rate that we have among
families with differentabilities, that there's not more
(02:45):
help and we shouldn't have torecreate the wheel every time
somebody goes through this.
So I decided I'm going to takemy knowledge and get more
knowledge and I started SpecialFamily Transitions my first time
having my own company andbecame a special needs divorce
coach.
So since then I've got allkinds of certifications.
I'm a thought leader in thefield, but I'm real proud of the
work I do because, like yousaid, it's a difficult time for
(03:06):
people.
It's something that no oneplans for or wishes for, but
sometimes it happens, and thereality is it happens a lot
about 80% of families with somekind of autism diagnosis or
special needs or whatever gothrough a difficult life
transition.
Sometimes they work it out anda lot of times they don't.
But the important thing is ishow do we get through that
process in a way that puts thekids first, also respects
(03:31):
ourselves in the process and andend up with good results and
outcome for the future for allof us?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Absolutely, and do you offer this coaching online
as well as in person?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
you offer this coaching online as well as in
person?
I do.
I do.
I'm based in Houston, but a lotof my clients are all over the
country and different parts ofthe world as well.
So, yeah, I'm happy to dosessions on Zoom.
Even the ones locally like todo it online as well.
I'm happy to do it face-to-faceon Zoom, or some people like
the privacy of doing it on thephone.
That way they don't have toshow their face.
(04:09):
So, either way, I'm happy to doit.
I'm happy to support people, nomatter where they are in the
process just thinking about itinitially, going through it or
even after divorce how to handlesome co-parenting type
challenges, how to support thekids in the future, help them
cope with what's happening.
I'm not a mental healthprofessional, I'm not a legal
professional, but I try to takekind of best practice from what
I've learned and learn aboutyour people's situation and help
them come up with some goodways to go forward that?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
what do you call them Spouses it should take to
initiate with their kids, andyou know, I guess you really
have to be cognizant of the agegroup and the ability to
(04:58):
comprehend the information.
What do you suggest is the bestway for someone to start that
process?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah.
So I would say, do it gradually, don't spring it onto the
surprise.
I just had to email thismorning from somebody who
attended one of my webinarspresentations I did recently,
and she was having a hard timebecause she just got served.
Somebody came to the door andit was a shock to her and her
young adult son that was home,who was on the spectrum, and so
(05:29):
they're trying to cope with thatand deal with that.
So, in addition to all thethings you go through, all the
feelings you have to figure out,okay, you know how do I act as
a role model to my son?
We don't want to bad mouthanybody, we don't want to
distance the child from eitherparent, but you know, I would
suggest, if you're thinkingabout this or you know this is
(05:51):
kind of on the horizon, don'tspring it on the other side.
Do it in a manner that'srespectful to everybody involved
.
Just, you know, say this isn't,you know, working out.
We tried.
I mean definitely try.
If it's not going to work out,it's not going to work out.
And there's no, there's noshame in that.
It used to kind of be seen as ataboo, but so many families go
(06:15):
through this and it is betterfor a child to be in two
separate homes than one wherethere's a lot of conflict and
then issues arise from there.
So don't feel like you can'tget divorced because you're
trying to do what's best foryour child.
Then issues arise from there.
So don't feel like you can'tget divorced because you're
trying to do what's best foryour child.
A lot of times it's not thebest situation for them to be in
a home where there's a lot ofconflict and anxiety, and then
that will then transfer to thechild too.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, that's the truth.
This is a tough question.
How honest do you think parentsneed to be with their child or
children about the details orreasons and at some point, if
they decide maybe they're tooyoung to have all the
information, is it appropriateor necessary for them to be
(06:57):
forthcoming for any in thefuture?
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, so definitely, like you said, it's going to be
age appropriate, but you neverwant to share the intimate
personal, private details aboutthe split to the child.
It's not laid their place.
You know, that's more for acoach, for you to share, that
for your attorney and fortrusted adult individuals.
So, even if your child is anadult, it's not something that
(07:23):
we want to share necessarily.
What we want to do with thekids, whether they're young or
older and depending on theirlevel, we want to handle it
differently is to let them knowthis is the situation Both
parents don't care about you andlove you and want to support
you, but things are going tolook different.
So one way I approach it for myfamily when I was facing it,
(07:44):
because I couldn't really findpeople to help me explain it to
my kids.
So I created a social story andthat's what I use in a very
positive fashion, positive tone,to explain what was happening,
what they could expect.
I called it what's happening tomy family, because that's
really what the kids want toknow is you know, where am I
(08:05):
going to live, when am I goingto see each parent, where am I
going to go to school and whatis my life going to look like.
Because you know, as we know, alot of people on the spectrum
like predictability and don'tlike change sometimes.
So we want to kind of help withthat transition, to do like I
said, in a gradual manner, besupportive in that.
(08:25):
But they don't have to see themessy side of divorce.
That's not our role.
We should shield them.
Sometimes we think maybe if achild is nonverbal and we're
having conversations, maybe theywon't understand, but they can
understand Even if they can'tspeak.
They can usually understandwhat we're saying.
If they don't understand thewords, they may understand the
tone and gestures and so on.
So we want to shield the kidsfrom that because we don't want
(08:46):
to create even more anxiety andissues for them that they may
face as they go through this too.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Absolutely.
What do you think about sharingthe information with, like the
schools, or with your employers?
Where do you need to be, youknow, draw the line or be
forthcoming with that.
If you're going throughsomething probably rough, I
would expect you might want togive them more information right
(09:14):
, I mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So definitely you don't want to spill everything
to your parties, like a schoolor your employer, if it's some,
like you, details that maybeshouldn't be shared or that
should be more private, but notto say that divorce needs to be
private.
We want to inform the schoolsand the teachers and the village
that we're working with thatare helping our kids, to let
(09:35):
them know what's happening, soif they see some behaviors and
some things that seem unusual tothem, they can attribute it to
oh, because of the divorce, notto just say someone's being lazy
or aggressive or sad for noreason.
This way, they have a reason anda context and hopefully they
can provide support as well atschool, and so for your employer
as well.
You know it may take someenergy and some time to get
(10:00):
through the process and makephone calls, and you may not be
your best self every day asyou're dealing with some of the
challenges and emotions thatyou're going through, and so you
want to let the employer knowthat you're going through this.
You want to get your work doneand you will maybe work as as
need be, maybe after hours,because you may have some
appointments that you have toattend to, but but once again
(10:21):
you want to let them know kindof what's going on to a certain
degree, so that they be seem alittle bit off, I guess,
compared to usual.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, I agree completely.
I think it's important toremain understanding that you do
live in a community and themore you kind of lean into the
community, the better.
That that can help you getthrough some of these really
tough times, especially throughdivorce and custody.
(10:51):
What about when it comes tocustody plans and things like
that?
Do you help them lay out plansfor timing and scheduling?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Right.
So when you have a child withany kind of disability, you have
some flexibility and you do forany kind of divorce as well.
But figure out what's going tobe best for that child.
Is it going to be like astandard formula and possession
schedule or maybe somethingthat's more tailored to you and
your needs and what's best foryour child?
So you know, a lot of kids Imentioned with autism don't like
(11:25):
a lot of transitions, so onewhere you're spending, you know,
every other day or a couple ofdays with mom and dad and switch
back and forth.
That may not be the bestsolution for you.
It may be.
If someone's been a caregiverfor that child, maybe they spend
more time or time during theweek and maybe the other parent,
who maybe is out working hardfor the family to continue
(11:45):
supporting the child financially, maybe they have different
times because of their demandson their schedule.
And if parents work, thenyou've got to find a solution
that is going to work as well.
But yeah, there's alwaysapproaches, so don't yeah kind
of think can I put the childfirst?
As you're going through thisprocess, you know how can we
arrange our schedules and makeagreements and get through this
(12:07):
process, so that we put thechild first and what's going to
benefit them now and in thefuture?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Absolutely, yeah, it's so hard.
Every family is different andobviously every marriage and
relationship is so verydifferent too.
Are there some guidelines thatyou might give the kids for
talking or making sure that theyfeel open to, to, you know,
(12:36):
being involved?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, so definitely we want the kids, whatever their
age and whatever their ability,to express themselves in the
way that they can.
One thing that is a positive, Iguess you know, in this process
is kids have to learn, or shouldlearn, to advocate for
themselves, to share with mom,to share with dad or whoever
they're going to be spendingtime with and what things that
(13:01):
are bothering them, as well asthings that they want and maybe
don't work for them in thathousehold.
So if one parent maybe isn'tfamiliar and has a different
parenting style, which is OK,right, but the child has to let
the parent.
This is what works and whatdoesn't work and this is what I
like.
So you know, having a mentalhealth professional kind of help
(13:22):
, that process can be useful togive them the skills to do that.
But also you can createparenting plans and use
communication type approaches,that where you can share the
information with the otherparents Say, one parent hasn't
been the primary caregiver,hasn't been as involved Then we
(13:44):
want to share information sothat the child is comfortable
and each parent is comfortablewith with with them during their
time.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Absolutely yeah, and when we are, you know, really
intentional with our kids andand really looking at what their
needs are and everything, Ieven though it's such a hard
process, I'm sure it's betterwhen you can kind of understand
(14:14):
and be able to accommodate inand hopefully have both parties
doing the same work as much aspossible.
And sometimes that's not goingto be possible and there are
going to be, you know, roughertimes than others and that's
just unfortunate.
But it's great that you aresomebody there that they can
(14:37):
reach out to and this is such awonderful service and so
important to have those familiesfeel like this situation isn't
the kind of end of you know,there's a light at the end of
the tunnel and they can seemoving forward, that it can be a
healthier situation for them.
(14:58):
Let's definitely touch on, Ithink, an important part that
I'm I think maybe gets missed,and that's self-care.
How should a person goingthrough this?
What are some tips you mightgive the parents for themselves
(15:18):
and for their kids, forself-care?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
That's a good question.
As you said, you're kind ofenrolled in the motion of
divorce and so I help people asa coach to go from the motion of
divorce to the business ofdivorce.
But how do we do that?
We have to recognize that thisis a big event in our lives and
there's a grief cycle, so it'snot affecting just us, but also
the kids are facing that as well.
So just be cognizant.
And it's okay to feel differentemotions and go through
(15:44):
different phases, whether it'sanger, denial, bargaining and
finally want to get toacceptance.
But if we don't take care ofourselves, we're not going to be
able to make good decisions indivorce and make good decisions
for our kids and be there forour kids.
If we're just stressed out andangry all the time, are we
really being a good parent?
And so if you can try to findsome help whether it's respite
(16:05):
or have people come in, or whenthe child is in school, perhaps
have time for your self-care anddo whatever you need to do to
eat healthy, exercise, whateverit looks like to you, or just a
few moments to relax, have fun,meet up with some friends,
whatever self-care might looklike to you, so it could be
(16:27):
something, even for five minutes, just being grateful for what
you do have.
So I heard a quote recentlythat you can't be grateful and
stress at the same time.
So just take a moment to justbe grateful for what we do have.
And granted, things are tough,so I'm not trying to paint a
rosy picture all the time, butwe want to say, ok, what is it
(16:47):
that we want our future to looklike?
What is the goal that we havefor ourselves and for our kids?
And, like you said, the wholepoint of this is to come up with
a bright and positive futurefor everybody involved.
It may look different indifferent families and maybe an
amicable divorce, or maybe moreof a high conflict divorce, but
either way, there's ways toapproach it so that you become
(17:09):
your best self and communicatein the best way possible to your
child, to your soon to be exspouse and to your divorce team,
because the more in control andimposed you are, then, the more
seriously you'll be taken by byeverybody that you're coming
across with.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I really agree and you know I have a friend going
through kind of a rough timeright now and I was just saying
you know you need to just reallyfocus on the things you're
doing.
Whatever things that otherperson isn't doing or is, you
don't need to bring that to theeveryone's table and everything.
(17:48):
Everyone's attention likereally remain like introspective
with yourself and and notputting, um, you know, the blame
or kind of it's really hardbecause when you're whoops,
excuse me when you're hurt oryou're going through something
like that, I mean I think it's ahuman emotion to feel defensive
(18:09):
or things like that.
But yeah, you have to be reallycareful with um ears listening
and um, really take the steps todo things like journaling,
maybe, to get out your feelings.
Or, um, take the time to have acoach that you can talk to
(18:29):
about the really frustratingparts, so that you don't have to
feel like that you're pent upwith these emotions and feelings
, that you can't talk about them, but that you're not sharing
them with coworkers, you're notsharing them with your kids and
you're really making a plan tomove forward for the success for
(18:49):
all of you involved, becausereally you came together with
the intention that it was goingto work and it doesn't.
Most people don't wish horrible.
They don't want to seehorribleness for the other
person.
So remember to be kind, and toyourself, to your kids, to the
(19:14):
other partner for sure.
What do you think is someadvice that you would give
families, whether they're kindof at the beginning or in the
middle of this?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I would say don't rush intoanything.
Don't rush into makingdecisions.
Don't rush to tell the otherparty the first thing that comes
to your mind.
We want to sit on things, wewant to kind of see what's best
for us, maybe consult withprofessionals before making
(19:47):
drastic steps or say things thatyou can't take back.
Everything that's out there intext and email can be considered
proof.
So everything that you're goingto say to your spouse, whether
it's verbal or written, make theassumption that a third party,
like a judge, may see thatcommunication.
So we always want to be at ourbest.
(20:08):
Treat this like you would abusiness deal, in a way where
you know what would you say toyour employer.
Are you going to, what kind oflanguage would you use, what
kind of tone?
Because the more upset you are,then you're going to raise the
other person's level of emotionas well.
So want to try to keep thingsas even keel as possible.
Granted, you may have the otherperson is up here, but we want
(20:30):
to try to be calm so we canhopefully bring down their level
as well.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, absolutely no.
I love that outlook actually,because the more someone can
maybe remove the emotions of it,even though it is extremely an
emotional time and I can onlysay that now you know
retrospectively, looking back athow emotional it was that I
think I was 22 or something whenI went through my first divorce
(20:58):
, so my only, only divorce Iplan on ever having, by the way,
but it was and I didn't havekids at the time and so and even
just having to go throughsomething like that.
But I also am child of divorcedparents and I'm an only child
and I'm an autistic, latediagnosed autistic and so when I
(21:21):
look back at those things and Ilook back at the kind of trauma
that was the life that I had,unfortunately, yeah, I would
hope that someone like you to beable to go and give advice and
help families go through thatand hopefully families are a
(21:43):
little bit more open to gettinghelp now than they were then,
like when it was more, like yousaid, a little bit more hush
hush and don't let anyone knowthis is happening Like it's
happening, the rates you knowthis is distics.
So better to be prepared.
Have somebody in your corner.
More importantly, be your bestself, like you said.
(22:06):
I really love that.
You said that Expect that athird party will have access to
all of the communication.
I love that you said that thatis something that people really
need to keep in mind.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Post on social media anything negative about the
other person.
I mean, you can use it to learnand inspire yourself and learn
from podcasts and differentthings that are out there which
are quite a few, but and shareadvice.
But but, yeah, there's thingsto motivate you to learn, maybe,
about how to approach differentsituations, and there's books
(22:40):
and happy to share resources,but it's important to remember
that, um, we're always going tobe a co-parent with that other
parent.
We may not be married to them,but when you have a child with
you know these, where bothparents will continue to
hopefully stay, remain involved,you're going to have to have
that ongoing relationship.
It may not be, you know, aloving one, but it should be
(23:01):
respectful and one where you canhopefully be in the same room
and, if you're not, at leastcommunicate as you need to about
that child.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, because really, most importantly, your child
I'm sure for both parties is soimportant and you do want to
know that they are getting thebest care that they can get, no
matter whether it's from you, acaretaker, your spouse.
So put them um, put them first,put their dignity and their um
(23:34):
privacy and all of those thingsfirst.
I I I do agree with that.
It is so nice to have you onand to catch up with you.
Tell people where they can goto find you, to get more
information, and then maybewe'll see if there's anything up
(23:55):
and coming that you might bedoing soon.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Sure, yeah.
So my social media is in mywebsite.
Name is Special FamilyTransitions, so people can
connect with me on all those.
I have a contact form on mywebsite that people can reach
out to me at and tell me abouttheir situation.
I'm happy to do a complimentarysession to learn about your
situation and discuss how Imight be able to help.
So most of my work right now isone-on-one coaching, but my
(24:22):
plan is to develop a groupcoaching program.
So if you're interested inbeing part of the pilot or an
upcoming session when that getsoff the ground, then please
reach out to me as well.
But I have also a mini course Icreated for people to kind of
get the basics.
It's more geared toward themoms, but it's really good for
anybody to figure out steps theyneed to take and things they
need to think about when they'regoing through this process.
(24:43):
Because one thing that isunique about this versus, say, a
typical divorce, is that you'regoing to have to plan for the
child's needs in the future, notjust when they turn 18 and hope
that everything's going to befine after that, because it may
or may not, and so you have toplan.
Okay, how are we going tohopefully together take care of
the expenses and needs that theyoung adult or child may have
(25:06):
going forward.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, website Special Family Transitions.
Just want to make sure I get itall quickly, okay, good.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Wonderful.
Follow me on my personalFacebook as well.
It's Mary Ann Pano Hughes.
But, yeah, happy to support you.
Most of my work is done withone parent, but I've also gone
through mediation training andparenting coordination training
so I can help and work with bothfamilies.
(25:37):
It's hard for both parents ifthey would like to try to get on
the same page and talk aboutsome things that they can do so
that the divorce doesn't becomea high conflict situation.
So the way kind of approach itand how to maybe talk to each
other at the beginning stages,so that we're we have a kind of
a roadmap for going forward.
Even if you do work withlawyers during or after our
discussions even if you do workwith lawyers, you know during or
(25:58):
after you know our discussions-yeah, absolutely, and you know,
always keep in mind that youthere is support out there that
you know you're.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
If you have an attorney and you think maybe you
need a coach, ask them if theyhave recommendations.
Right, and just you don't haveto go through this alone.
You don't have to go throughmany situations alone.
There's, there's communities.
Please reach out to Marianne ormyself if you have questions,
if you need resources, and we'reso excited to to have you on
and to have this specialresource available for our
(26:40):
listeners.
So, thank you so so much.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Thank you, appreciate it.
Like you said, it's a hardprocess but you'll get through
it, get the right team anddefinitely get people who
understand special needs anddisabilities and autism as part
of the process to better supportyou and your and your kids.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Oh, I love that.
Oh, anything um coming up foryou events or anything you might
be doing.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah.
So, like I said, I'm kind ofgetting ready for as recorded as
end of 2024, getting ready tokick off some things in 2025.
So definitely reach out to me.
I'm starting a private Facebookgroup too, so definitely get on
that and I'll share moreinformation on all my social
media as well.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, that's great.
Like a support group kind ofgroup.
I love that Wonderful.
Well, it's been so nice to chatwith you today and I look
forward to staying in touch.
Great, thank you, thank you.
Hi and thanks for joining the SG Child Show today.
I'm so excited for thisconversation.
First off, I absolutely was sothrilled to find someone like
Marianne that was out theredoing this amazing work that I
hadn't seen before.
So that's exciting because weall want to, you know, find
(00:30):
something that maybe we hadn'tthought could help in a
situation or an area of familieslives in something that is a
very vulnerable and hard timefor families to go through, the
(00:51):
time where they need the mostsupport, and that is divorce.
And so we're going to touch onsome of these subjects today, so
they might be sensitive.
Or, you know, get your Kleenexboxes just in case, because I
should have brought mine, infact, because I know I'm
probably going to cry a littlebit, but that's okay.
You know, the great part aboutit is really focusing and
(01:11):
highlighting the service thatshe's providing for these
families and, through this, thedelicate times that they're
going through.
So, marianne, it's such apleasure to have you here.
I'm so, so excited to talk toyou.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Thanks, sarah, so excited to be here.
Thanks for inviting me on yourshow.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, absolutely, and you know you were part of the
one in 36 mix too, and I'm soglad that we connected and you
were able to share what you doin that summit, because I know
that it brought a lot ofattention for people who, even
people who reached out to me andsaid, hey, could I, you know,
(01:51):
find somebody that could help me, and so I was able to recommend
.
So thank you so much.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself and kind of what
brought you to the destination.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Sure.
So I'm a mom of two now youngadults on opposite ends of the
autism spectrum.
They're now in their earlytwenties, and several years ago
I faced an unexpected divorce,and so I had to figure out how
to navigate that but also how totake care of my kids, and in
(02:25):
the process I learned so much.
I learned that there weren'tmany resources out there to help
, but I did do the legwork.
I had to get a team of people.
I had to educate them, educatemyself, and so I thought it was
kind of silly, for the highdivorce rate that we have among
families with differentabilities, that there's not more
(02:45):
help and we shouldn't have torecreate the wheel every time
somebody goes through this.
So I decided I'm going to takemy knowledge and get more
knowledge and I started SpecialFamily Transitions my first time
having my own company andbecame a special needs divorce
coach.
So since then I've got allkinds of certifications.
I'm a thought leader in thefield, but I'm real proud of the
work I do because, like yousaid, it's a difficult time for
(03:06):
people.
It's something that no oneplans for or wishes for, but
sometimes it happens, and thereality is it happens a lot
about 80% of families with somekind of autism diagnosis or
special needs or whatever gothrough a difficult life
transition.
Sometimes they work it out anda lot of times they don't.
But the important thing is ishow do we get through that
process in a way that puts thekids first, also respects
(03:31):
ourselves in the process and andend up with good results and
outcome for the future for allof us?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Absolutely, and do you offer this coaching online
as well as in person?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
you offer this coaching online as well as in
person?
I do.
I do.
I'm based in Houston, but a lotof my clients are all over the
country and different parts ofthe world as well.
So, yeah, I'm happy to dosessions on Zoom.
Even the ones locally like todo it online as well.
I'm happy to do it face-to-faceon Zoom, or some people like
the privacy of doing it on thephone.
That way they don't have toshow their face.
(04:09):
So, either way, I'm happy to doit.
I'm happy to support people, nomatter where they are in the
process just thinking about itinitially, going through it or
even after divorce how to handlesome co-parenting type
challenges, how to support thekids in the future, help them
cope with what's happening.
I'm not a mental healthprofessional, I'm not a legal
professional, but I try to takekind of best practice from what
I've learned and learn aboutyour people's situation and help
them come up with some goodways to go forward that?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
what do you call them Spouses it should take to
initiate with their kids, andyou know, I guess you really
have to be cognizant of the agegroup and the ability to
(04:58):
comprehend the information.
What do you suggest is the bestway for someone to start that
process?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah.
So I would say, do it gradually, don't spring it onto the
surprise.
I just had to email thismorning from somebody who
attended one of my webinarspresentations I did recently,
and she was having a hard timebecause she just got served.
Somebody came to the door andit was a shock to her and her
young adult son that was home,who was on the spectrum, and so
(05:29):
they're trying to cope with thatand deal with that.
So, in addition to all thethings you go through, all the
feelings you have to figure out,okay, you know how do I act as
a role model to my son?
We don't want to bad mouthanybody, we don't want to
distance the child from eitherparent, but you know, I would
suggest, if you're thinkingabout this or you know this is
(05:51):
kind of on the horizon, don'tspring it on the other side.
Do it in a manner that'srespectful to everybody involved
.
Just, you know, say this isn't,you know, working out.
We tried.
I mean definitely try.
If it's not going to work out,it's not going to work out.
And there's no, there's noshame in that.
It used to kind of be seen as ataboo, but so many families go
(06:15):
through this and it is betterfor a child to be in two
separate homes than one wherethere's a lot of conflict and
then issues arise from there.
So don't feel like you can'tget divorced because you're
trying to do what's best foryour child.
Then issues arise from there.
So don't feel like you can'tget divorced because you're
trying to do what's best foryour child.
A lot of times it's not thebest situation for them to be in
a home where there's a lot ofconflict and anxiety, and then
that will then transfer to thechild too.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, that's the truth.
This is a tough question.
How honest do you think parentsneed to be with their child or
children about the details orreasons and at some point, if
they decide maybe they're tooyoung to have all the
information, is it appropriateor necessary for them to be
(06:57):
forthcoming for any in thefuture?
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, so definitely, like you said, it's going to be
age appropriate, but you neverwant to share the intimate
personal, private details aboutthe split to the child.
It's not laid their place.
You know, that's more for acoach, for you to share, that
for your attorney and fortrusted adult individuals.
So, even if your child is anadult, it's not something that
(07:23):
we want to share necessarily.
What we want to do with thekids, whether they're young or
older and depending on theirlevel, we want to handle it
differently is to let them knowthis is the situation Both
parents don't care about you andlove you and want to support
you, but things are going tolook different.
So one way I approach it for myfamily when I was facing it,
(07:44):
because I couldn't really findpeople to help me explain it to
my kids.
So I created a social story andthat's what I use in a very
positive fashion, positive tone,to explain what was happening,
what they could expect.
I called it what's happening tomy family, because that's
really what the kids want toknow is you know, where am I
(08:05):
going to live, when am I goingto see each parent, where am I
going to go to school and whatis my life going to look like.
Because you know, as we know, alot of people on the spectrum
like predictability and don'tlike change sometimes.
So we want to kind of help withthat transition, to do like I
said, in a gradual manner, besupportive in that.
(08:25):
But they don't have to see themessy side of divorce.
That's not our role.
We should shield them.
Sometimes we think maybe if achild is nonverbal and we're
having conversations, maybe theywon't understand, but they can
understand Even if they can'tspeak.
They can usually understandwhat we're saying.
If they don't understand thewords, they may understand the
tone and gestures and so on.
So we want to shield the kidsfrom that because we don't want
(08:46):
to create even more anxiety andissues for them that they may
face as they go through this too.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Absolutely.
What do you think about sharingthe information with, like the
schools, or with your employers?
Where do you need to be, youknow, draw the line or be
forthcoming with that.
If you're going throughsomething probably rough, I
would expect you might want togive them more information right
(09:14):
, I mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So definitely you don't want to spill everything
to your parties, like a schoolor your employer, if it's some,
like you, details that maybeshouldn't be shared or that
should be more private, but notto say that divorce needs to be
private.
We want to inform the schoolsand the teachers and the village
that we're working with thatare helping our kids, to let
(09:35):
them know what's happening, soif they see some behaviors and
some things that seem unusual tothem, they can attribute it to
oh, because of the divorce, notto just say someone's being lazy
or aggressive or sad for noreason.
This way, they have a reason anda context and hopefully they
can provide support as well atschool, and so for your employer
as well.
You know it may take someenergy and some time to get
(10:00):
through the process and makephone calls, and you may not be
your best self every day asyou're dealing with some of the
challenges and emotions thatyou're going through, and so you
want to let the employer knowthat you're going through this.
You want to get your work doneand you will maybe work as as
need be, maybe after hours,because you may have some
appointments that you have toattend to, but but once again
(10:21):
you want to let them know kindof what's going on to a certain
degree, so that they be seem alittle bit off, I guess,
compared to usual.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, I agree completely.
I think it's important toremain understanding that you do
live in a community and themore you kind of lean into the
community, the better.
That that can help you getthrough some of these really
tough times, especially throughdivorce and custody.
(10:51):
What about when it comes tocustody plans and things like
that?
Do you help them lay out plansfor timing and scheduling?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Right.
So when you have a child withany kind of disability, you have
some flexibility and you do forany kind of divorce as well.
But figure out what's going tobe best for that child.
Is it going to be like astandard formula and possession
schedule or maybe somethingthat's more tailored to you and
your needs and what's best foryour child?
So you know, a lot of kids Imentioned with autism don't like
(11:25):
a lot of transitions, so onewhere you're spending, you know,
every other day or a couple ofdays with mom and dad and switch
back and forth.
That may not be the bestsolution for you.
It may be.
If someone's been a caregiverfor that child, maybe they spend
more time or time during theweek and maybe the other parent,
who maybe is out working hardfor the family to continue
(11:45):
supporting the child financially, maybe they have different
times because of their demandson their schedule.
And if parents work, thenyou've got to find a solution
that is going to work as well.
But yeah, there's alwaysapproaches, so don't yeah kind
of think can I put the childfirst?
As you're going through thisprocess, you know how can we
arrange our schedules and makeagreements and get through this
(12:07):
process, so that we put thechild first and what's going to
benefit them now and in thefuture?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Absolutely, yeah, it's so hard.
Every family is different andobviously every marriage and
relationship is so verydifferent too.
Are there some guidelines thatyou might give the kids for
talking or making sure that theyfeel open to, to, you know,
(12:36):
being involved?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, so definitely we want the kids, whatever their
age and whatever their ability,to express themselves in the
way that they can.
One thing that is a positive, Iguess you know, in this process
is kids have to learn, or shouldlearn, to advocate for
themselves, to share with mom,to share with dad or whoever
they're going to be spendingtime with and what things that
(13:01):
are bothering them, as well asthings that they want and maybe
don't work for them in thathousehold.
So if one parent maybe isn'tfamiliar and has a different
parenting style, which is OK,right, but the child has to let
the parent.
This is what works and whatdoesn't work and this is what I
like.
So you know, having a mentalhealth professional kind of help
(13:22):
, that process can be useful togive them the skills to do that.
But also you can createparenting plans and use
communication type approaches,that where you can share the
information with the otherparents Say, one parent hasn't
been the primary caregiver,hasn't been as involved Then we
(13:44):
want to share information sothat the child is comfortable
and each parent is comfortablewith with with them during their
time.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Absolutely yeah, and when we are, you know, really
intentional with our kids andand really looking at what their
needs are and everything, Ieven though it's such a hard
process, I'm sure it's betterwhen you can kind of understand
(14:14):
and be able to accommodate inand hopefully have both parties
doing the same work as much aspossible.
And sometimes that's not goingto be possible and there are
going to be, you know, roughertimes than others and that's
just unfortunate.
But it's great that you aresomebody there that they can
(14:37):
reach out to and this is such awonderful service and so
important to have those familiesfeel like this situation isn't
the kind of end of you know,there's a light at the end of
the tunnel and they can seemoving forward, that it can be a
healthier situation for them.
(14:58):
Let's definitely touch on, Ithink, an important part that
I'm I think maybe gets missed,and that's self-care.
How should a person goingthrough this?
What are some tips you mightgive the parents for themselves
(15:18):
and for their kids, forself-care?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
That's a good question.
As you said, you're kind ofenrolled in the motion of
divorce and so I help people asa coach to go from the motion of
divorce to the business ofdivorce.
But how do we do that?
We have to recognize that thisis a big event in our lives and
there's a grief cycle, so it'snot affecting just us, but also
the kids are facing that as well.
So just be cognizant.
And it's okay to feel differentemotions and go through
(15:44):
different phases, whether it'sanger, denial, bargaining and
finally want to get toacceptance.
But if we don't take care ofourselves, we're not going to be
able to make good decisions indivorce and make good decisions
for our kids and be there forour kids.
If we're just stressed out andangry all the time, are we
really being a good parent?
And so if you can try to findsome help whether it's respite
(16:05):
or have people come in, or whenthe child is in school, perhaps
have time for your self-care anddo whatever you need to do to
eat healthy, exercise, whateverit looks like to you, or just a
few moments to relax, have fun,meet up with some friends,
whatever self-care might looklike to you, so it could be
(16:27):
something, even for five minutes, just being grateful for what
you do have.
So I heard a quote recentlythat you can't be grateful and
stress at the same time.
So just take a moment to justbe grateful for what we do have.
And granted, things are tough,so I'm not trying to paint a
rosy picture all the time, butwe want to say, ok, what is it
(16:47):
that we want our future to looklike?
What is the goal that we havefor ourselves and for our kids?
And, like you said, the wholepoint of this is to come up with
a bright and positive futurefor everybody involved.
It may look different indifferent families and maybe an
amicable divorce, or maybe moreof a high conflict divorce, but
either way, there's ways toapproach it so that you become
(17:09):
your best self and communicatein the best way possible to your
child, to your soon to be exspouse and to your divorce team,
because the more in control andimposed you are, then, the more
seriously you'll be taken by byeverybody that you're coming
across with.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I really agree and you know I have a friend going
through kind of a rough timeright now and I was just saying
you know you need to just reallyfocus on the things you're
doing.
Whatever things that otherperson isn't doing or is, you
don't need to bring that to theeveryone's table and everything.
(17:48):
Everyone's attention likereally remain like introspective
with yourself and and notputting, um, you know, the blame
or kind of it's really hardbecause when you're whoops,
excuse me when you're hurt oryou're going through something
like that, I mean I think it's ahuman emotion to feel defensive
(18:09):
or things like that.
But yeah, you have to be reallycareful with um ears listening
and um, really take the steps todo things like journaling,
maybe, to get out your feelings.
Or, um, take the time to have acoach that you can talk to
(18:29):
about the really frustratingparts, so that you don't have to
feel like that you're pent upwith these emotions and feelings
, that you can't talk about them, but that you're not sharing
them with coworkers, you're notsharing them with your kids and
you're really making a plan tomove forward for the success for
(18:49):
all of you involved, becausereally you came together with
the intention that it was goingto work and it doesn't.
Most people don't wish horrible.
They don't want to seehorribleness for the other
person.
So remember to be kind, and toyourself, to your kids, to the
(19:14):
other partner for sure.
What do you think is someadvice that you would give
families, whether they're kindof at the beginning or in the
middle of this?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I would say don't rush intoanything.
Don't rush into makingdecisions.
Don't rush to tell the otherparty the first thing that comes
to your mind.
We want to sit on things, wewant to kind of see what's best
for us, maybe consult withprofessionals before making
(19:47):
drastic steps or say things thatyou can't take back.
Everything that's out there intext and email can be considered
proof.
So everything that you're goingto say to your spouse, whether
it's verbal or written, make theassumption that a third party,
like a judge, may see thatcommunication.
So we always want to be at ourbest.
(20:08):
Treat this like you would abusiness deal, in a way where
you know what would you say toyour employer.
Are you going to, what kind oflanguage would you use, what
kind of tone?
Because the more upset you are,then you're going to raise the
other person's level of emotionas well.
So want to try to keep thingsas even keel as possible.
Granted, you may have the otherperson is up here, but we want
(20:30):
to try to be calm so we canhopefully bring down their level
as well.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, absolutely no.
I love that outlook actually,because the more someone can
maybe remove the emotions of it,even though it is extremely an
emotional time and I can onlysay that now you know
retrospectively, looking back athow emotional it was that I
think I was 22 or something whenI went through my first divorce
(20:58):
, so my only, only divorce Iplan on ever having, by the way,
but it was and I didn't havekids at the time and so and even
just having to go throughsomething like that.
But I also am child of divorcedparents and I'm an only child
and I'm an autistic, latediagnosed autistic and so when I
(21:21):
look back at those things and Ilook back at the kind of trauma
that was the life that I had,unfortunately, yeah, I would
hope that someone like you to beable to go and give advice and
help families go through thatand hopefully families are a
(21:43):
little bit more open to gettinghelp now than they were then,
like when it was more, like yousaid, a little bit more hush
hush and don't let anyone knowthis is happening Like it's
happening, the rates you knowthis is distics.
So better to be prepared.
Have somebody in your corner.
More importantly, be your bestself, like you said.
(22:06):
I really love that.
You said that Expect that athird party will have access to
all of the communication.
I love that you said that thatis something that people really
need to keep in mind.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Post on social media anything negative about the
other person.
I mean, you can use it to learnand inspire yourself and learn
from podcasts and differentthings that are out there which
are quite a few, but and shareadvice.
But but, yeah, there's thingsto motivate you to learn, maybe,
about how to approach differentsituations, and there's books
(22:40):
and happy to share resources,but it's important to remember
that, um, we're always going tobe a co-parent with that other
parent.
We may not be married to them,but when you have a child with
you know these, where bothparents will continue to
hopefully stay, remain involved,you're going to have to have
that ongoing relationship.
It may not be, you know, aloving one, but it should be
(23:01):
respectful and one where you canhopefully be in the same room
and, if you're not, at leastcommunicate as you need to about
that child.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, because really, most importantly, your child
I'm sure for both parties is soimportant and you do want to
know that they are getting thebest care that they can get, no
matter whether it's from you, acaretaker, your spouse.
So put them um, put them first,put their dignity and their um
(23:34):
privacy and all of those thingsfirst.
I I I do agree with that.
It is so nice to have you onand to catch up with you.
Tell people where they can goto find you, to get more
information, and then maybewe'll see if there's anything up
(23:55):
and coming that you might bedoing soon.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Sure, yeah.
So my social media is in mywebsite.
Name is Special FamilyTransitions, so people can
connect with me on all those.
I have a contact form on mywebsite that people can reach
out to me at and tell me abouttheir situation.
I'm happy to do a complimentarysession to learn about your
situation and discuss how Imight be able to help.
So most of my work right now isone-on-one coaching, but my
(24:22):
plan is to develop a groupcoaching program.
So if you're interested inbeing part of the pilot or an
upcoming session when that getsoff the ground, then please
reach out to me as well.
But I have also a mini course Icreated for people to kind of
get the basics.
It's more geared toward themoms, but it's really good for
anybody to figure out steps theyneed to take and things they
need to think about when they'regoing through this process.
(24:43):
Because one thing that isunique about this versus, say, a
typical divorce, is that you'regoing to have to plan for the
child's needs in the future, notjust when they turn 18 and hope
that everything's going to befine after that, because it may
or may not, and so you have toplan.
Okay, how are we going tohopefully together take care of
the expenses and needs that theyoung adult or child may have
(25:06):
going forward.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, website Special Family Transitions.
Just want to make sure I get itall quickly, okay, good.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Wonderful.
Follow me on my personalFacebook as well.
It's Mary Ann Pano Hughes.
But, yeah, happy to support you.
Most of my work is done withone parent, but I've also gone
through mediation training andparenting coordination training
so I can help and work with bothfamilies.
(25:37):
It's hard for both parents ifthey would like to try to get on
the same page and talk aboutsome things that they can do so
that the divorce doesn't becomea high conflict situation.
So the way kind of approach itand how to maybe talk to each
other at the beginning stages,so that we're we have a kind of
a roadmap for going forward.
Even if you do work withlawyers during or after our
discussions even if you do workwith lawyers, you know during or
(25:58):
after you know our discussions-yeah, absolutely, and you know,
always keep in mind that youthere is support out there that
you know you're.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
If you have an attorney and you think maybe you
need a coach, ask them if theyhave recommendations.
Right, and just you don't haveto go through this alone.
You don't have to go throughmany situations alone.
There's, there's communities.
Please reach out to Marianne ormyself if you have questions,
if you need resources, and we'reso excited to to have you on
and to have this specialresource available for our
(26:40):
listeners.
So, thank you so so much.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Thank you, appreciate it.
Like you said, it's a hardprocess but you'll get through
it, get the right team anddefinitely get people who
understand special needs anddisabilities and autism as part
of the process to better supportyou and your and your kids.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Oh, I love that.
Oh, anything um coming up foryou events or anything you might
be doing.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah.
So, like I said, I'm kind ofgetting ready for as recorded as
end of 2024, getting ready tokick off some things in 2025.
So definitely reach out to me.
I'm starting a private Facebookgroup too, so definitely get on
that and I'll share moreinformation on all my social
media as well.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, that's great.
Like a support group kind ofgroup.
I love that Wonderful.
Well, it's been so nice to chatwith you today and I look
forward to staying in touch.
Great, thank you, thank you.
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