What if the key to meaningful connections isn't trying harder to fit in, but learning how to authentically stand out? Coach Lee Hopkins transforms this question into life-changing guidance for late-diagnosed autistic adults struggling with social connections.
Growing up watching sitcoms where problems resolved neatly in 30 minutes, Coach Lee assumed real relationships would follow the same pattern. Instead, he spent decades "destroying relationships" without understanding why. Through therapy, he discovered the foundation of connection—acknowledging that both he and others had feelings—but something was still missing. As an undiagnosed autistic person, his direct communication style clashed with neurotypical expectations, leaving him perpetually disconnected despite being surrounded by people.
Sarah Brafford shares similar experiences of feeling "like a unicorn in the horse and cow pasture," visible but fundamentally different. Both describe the exhaustion of masking—that survival strategy of nodding, smiling, and suppressing authentic responses to appear "normal." When they finally attempted to unmask, rejection often followed, creating a painful cycle that kept them isolated.
The conversation takes a powerful turn as Coach Lee reveals his transformative insight: "Rejection is redirection." Through his coaching practice, Patterns of Possibility, he guides clients to identify their values and seek connections in aligned environments. Rather than forcing yourself into spaces that require masking, he suggests finding communities where your authentic self naturally fits. The path requires vulnerability—something he teaches through practical, actionable steps rather than vague encouragements to "just be yourself."
Whether you're autistic, neurodivergent, or simply feeling disconnected, this episode offers hope through personal stories of finding genuine connection. Learn how small acts of recognition—like thanking the often-overlooked workers in our daily lives—can create ripples of positive change while building your connection muscles.
Ready to move from merely being invited to truly belonging? Visit PatternsOfPossibility.com for free resources, including a 7-minute guide on "How to be vulnerable without being overexposed" and information about joining the Trust and Thrive Tribe community.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The SJ Childs Show is Backford's 13th season.
Join Sarah Brafford and the SJChilds Show team as they explore
the world of autism and sharestories of hope and inspiration.
This season we're excited tobring you more autism summits
featuring experts and advocatesfrom around the world.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Go to sjchildsorg.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hi, thanks for joining the SG Child show today.
You're in for a greatconversation, so hope you're
having a great day, afternoon,morning, whatever you're doing,
if you're going for a jog orgoing to get some lunch or on a
nice drive just enjoy thisconversation and I know you'll
learn something I always do, soexcited to have Coach Lee
(01:00):
Hopkins with me today.
And today we're going to talkabout some really passionate
things that I resonate with,things that I know my listeners
resonate with.
So you're going to want tolisten.
You're going to want to makesure to get the website and
socials after this so that youcan go and follow.
(01:22):
And yeah, hi, coach, how areyou doing today?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Sarah, I'm doing really good today.
We're going to have a lot offun talking connecting.
Very excited to be here and tospeak to your audience.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Thank you, and I love the wall Is that?
Are those vines?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Yes, so I have some vines here on this.
They're not real, unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Well, I mean, I want them to be real, but the ones on
my right that are far behind me, those are real, I will I want
my pothos, have lots of goldenpothos and I want them to just
fill up the space because I lovethat kind of energy I do too,
as you can see, and I, I and Ihave a little fake guy way over
in the corner underneath thisguy to give it a little life or
(02:09):
a little fill.
So that's funny, but yeah.
I love my plants Exactly.
Oh gosh, it's so nice to haveyou here today and I know we're
going to have a greatconversation.
Let's just kind of start at thebeginning, I suppose.
Give us an introduction, let usknow a little bit about
yourself and what brought youhere today.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Sure, I am Coach Lee Hopkins.
I'm the social connectionscoach for the late diagnosed
autistic adult, and I do thisbecause I struggled with making
meaningful relationships for myentire life.
So social connections I meanfriends, family, business,
coworkers, whoever it was, youname it.
I destroyed it and I justdidn't know what I was doing.
(02:52):
I didn't know how to create arelationship.
I didn't know that my family itwas a bit dysfunctional, we
would say.
People just weren't connecting,as I saw on TV.
So I grew up in the 90s and Isaw love and connection on TV,
full House, family Matters,fresh Prince.
(03:14):
All they do is just resolveissues in 30 minutes and
everybody's happy to talk outtheir problems.
And I thought you know what?
Whatever's happening in myfamily life isn't happening with
me.
I mean, I don't want it tocontinue happening.
So I'm going to go out thereinto the world and I'm going to
find those relationships that Isee on TV.
(03:34):
And boy, I was wrong, sarah.
I went out there into the worldwith no understanding of myself
and how to make relationshipsand it just fell apart.
I created the same disastrouskinds of relationships that I
saw in my family members or inother people that I was
(03:55):
connected with and I was like,oh, this is the worst, I don't
know what I'm doing, I need somehelp and support with this.
So I went to get some therapyto learn more about me and
myself, and I learned that I hadfeelings.
I had feelings and other peoplehad feelings.
So I didn't learn about autismyet I was in my thirties.
(04:18):
I didn't learn about autism yet, I just learned.
Other people had feelings and Ihad feelings, and that was the
key to making relationships.
And still, I was, like you know, going out there talking to
people with my newfound feelings, acknowledging their feelings.
There was just something offabout me and about the
connections that I was trying tomake, the confusion that I had
(04:40):
about how people talk to eachother and, furthermore, people
just wouldn't say exactly whatthey met or how they felt.
And I started to realize that,well, everybody has feelings,
but they're hiding them.
They're hiding them and I,autistic I want to tell you
exactly how I feel.
I want you to tell me exactlyhow you feel.
(05:01):
And I didn't realize this wassomething that was a trait of
autism until fairly recently.
So that's how I got to what Ido today.
It's an all personal lifeexperience.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I think that that's the best type of experience to
learn from.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I think education is where itbelongs, what it does for who it
does it for.
But living experience is soincredibly, um, important and
(05:34):
valuable.
It can bring so many lessonsfor people everywhere, um, who
didn't even know sometimes thatyou know they were maybe not
realizing that they had thesefeelings and I just I'm really
love what you had said aboutthat and the fact that you
(05:58):
recognized this is lookingdifferent to me.
I'm going to go find out why.
Thank you, thank you for youknow, showing up for yourself
and saying, hey, this, maybethis could look different.
You know, why does it?
And, and I understand exactlywhat you're saying, and
(06:20):
sometimes I really needclarification in conversations.
Yes, and I'm not trying to be.
You know, as a child, I wouldhave, of course, been viewed as
sassy and talking back and Iwould have never done that.
I'm a generalist daughter, so.
But you know, now I'm like Idon't understand.
(06:43):
Now I have a loving spousewho's also autistic, you know,
late diagnosed.
Now he and I, I can just say Idon't understand.
No, this is, this is not makingsense to me, and I slow him
down and I say wait, we gotta,we gotta we gotta start from the
beginning, cause I don'tunderstand this.
Yes, it's so nice to havesomebody on the same page, not
(07:07):
that we are on the same page ofour conversation, but in that.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
In the same sense that you really have to be able
to have those tools to bridgethe gap, because everyone is
trying to be heard, understood,appreciated and accepted be
heard, understood, appreciatedand accepted.
And the method or what they doto go about doing that is
different from what youexperience or what you're used
to because of their own lifeexperiences.
(07:32):
So I've run into people whojust don't want to share their
feelings because it's never beensafe for them and I'm like tell
me everything.
And they're like whoa, whoa,whoa, slow it down, slow it down
.
I don't want to tell youanything because I don't know
how you're going to treat it andit doesn't feel safe to me.
And I'm like wait a minute,you're not being forthcoming.
(07:55):
Well, I have to have the toolsto understand that they don't
feel safe, know that it's notabout me, and then also it's the
same for me.
I've not felt safe sharing myfeelings with other people or
even asking, like you and yourhusband have this ability to ask
and to to receive informationfrom each other.
But you know, so many times Ithink especially this is true
(08:18):
for a lot of people who haven'tbeen diagnosed autistic, but
they do have that question Ijust don't understand why
everybody else has figured itout.
What's wrong with you?
And they're like oh, I don'tthink that I should ask that
anymore, because every time I doI get in trouble for it, I get
shamed for it or be called alittle smarty pants.
(08:38):
Because you're asking theobvious.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Quotes the obvious the obvious quotes, the obvious
yeah, oh no.
It's fascinating and I thinkthat there's not enough um
education for everyone about thesocial constructs, of what
needs to be held together tohave, foster and, you know,
(09:05):
continue having relationshipswith people.
And I.
It's interesting because Ipersonally don't think it's been
something that no, I take thatback.
It's been something that I'vestruggled with, more in secret,
I suppose, than anything else.
Like people would look at meand never think that, oh, you
have a problem or you don't havea problem.
(09:26):
You know, making friends orreaching people, but when I was
growing up and I I've beenquoted in so many podcasts
saying this I literally feltlike a unicorn in the horse and
cow pasture, like I was not thesame as those other people
around me and I never fit inwith the groups.
I was friends with all of them,but I was never friends with
(09:50):
all of them.
Does that make sense?
Like individually, but never ina group or as like I was never
part of it.
I could just like know themoutside of whatever, but yeah,
it was, I was never included, Isuppose, and that's always, and
you always look back at yourselfand say you know what's wrong,
(10:13):
Like I, I'm pretty sure I looklike the rest of them, Like I
don't understand.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Yeah, it's.
It's a feeling like you'reinvited but you're really not
welcome there in this space,because you're going to say
something weird or you're goingto do something, or you're
thinking of something or you'renot sure about what to say.
I don't know if that was yourexperience, but that was
certainly my experience and Ijust wanted to avoid the group
scene altogether when I wasyounger.
But then I you know, I startedmasking and I'd be curious to
(10:43):
know about your experience withmasking.
I've discovered it.
I'm like well, this is it.
You know no more asking dumbquestions that are going to get
me in the trouble.
Just nod your head, smile andjust laugh at what other people
say.
Just smile, just do what theydo, because you're going to make
the relationships work.
(11:04):
If you come out of your shelland you start asking questions,
they're not going to like you.
So I've done that for so manyyears, probably for my teens,
until I would say you know, 30s,mid 30s I'm early 40s now but I
really started to take off thatmask for after so many years
(11:25):
decades even.
We were so conditioned withthat.
I'd be curious to know aboutyour experience because it was
helpful, but also it was alonely experience.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
So lonely and you know what.
I'm glad that you asked andit's exciting that you did,
because I don't know thatanybody has really ever asked me
about my masking experiencesand I think that you know, kind
of like you, I didn't evenrealize.
You know, I got my diagnosis at45.
And so it was going backthrough my mind and all of the
(12:00):
time.
But who really saw it was myhusband.
We've been together for 21years and so he really knows me
better than anyone, than myparents.
They'd been divorced for years,so they don't really know me
because they only knew me alittle bit because they lived in
different states and I'm, youknow.
So truly this is the person whoI've been with the longest in
(12:23):
my lifetime.
Truly, this is the person whoI've been with the longest in my
lifetime.
And there was a point in whichthe fight and flight shut off
and my husband said it wasalmost like I didn't lose
hearing, but I was not hearingas much as I had used, like I
(12:43):
was always on guard, I wasalways on.
I was always kind of like highyou know high anxiety, high
energy, Um, and I think thatthat came from years of
(13:07):
obviously being an only child toa military father, um, who was,
you know, very strict and sokind of like you said, just um,
do as you're told, like, show upand do what you're supposed to.
And that's what you do, andthat's what I did for show up
and do what you're supposed to,and that's what you do, and
that's what I did for.
And then, when it was time forme to make my own decisions, I'd
say I went a little off therails for a while.
(13:28):
It was like what decisions Ican make?
Them all the wrong ones.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
So now you shouldn't make those decisions.
You'll make that decision Likewell, I'm going to try it out
because I'm done.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
following your rules.
I'm going to do what.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I want to do.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah.
So I'd say that now I feel likeand it's so interesting because
I started podcasting before Iknew and so I could even
probably look back at like thevery beginning you know episodes
and stuff and still see thetense version of myself or
whatnot realizing, hey, likeyou're, you haven't you know,
(14:23):
you've just been like a mom insweatpants and a ponytail for so
long that you haven't doneanything for yourself.
And now you're like puttingdresses on and doing your hair
and hey, you still look nice andyou can still have friends and
meet people and do this and it.
I started realizing like, okay,I really have this like self
love and like caretaker you knowproblem where I only care for
(14:47):
others and I don't look anddon't respect myself as the same
.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah, that's something that I experienced too
.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, it's been huge for that to have changed and to
I feel like I'm I've let go ofthat person.
Not that I I'm not still anamazing caretaker for those I
love, but I'm also really morebalanced in what I need to, like
(15:17):
the last six months even.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Yeah, you have to be and that's what really creates
the relationships.
You know, I was a caretaker ora person who just gave and gave
and gave a people pleaserbecause that was going to keep
me safe.
I recognize that if I give andI give my time, effort and
energy to other people, thatthey're going to invite me to be
around and just like they'regoing to invite me, but maybe
(15:41):
I'm not welcome because I'm notshowing up, I'm not going to
share with you, I'm not going totell you a little bit about who
I am, because I was afraid toshow you that, because I
immediately believed that Iwould be attacked if I did it or
if I'd ask a question or if Ishowed up in a way that just
didn't match what they wanted,that felt good to me.
(16:02):
I wouldn't do that and so asmuch as I thought that being
there for other people or beinga people pleaser was going to
help me get closer to otherpeople, it just never worked.
It never worked because theyreally want authenticity and I
was afraid of rejection of thatauthenticity and it was a wild
(16:24):
thing to really discover.
And you know, my autism allowsme to catch these patterns,
pattern recognition, seekingthese patterns all over the
place and recognizing that, okay, I understand, it's a pattern
of me showing up not as myself.
So now, when I take this maskoff, let me show up as myself.
(16:45):
And I got rejected.
I would get rejected.
I'm like, oh no, wait a minute.
The universe is so cruel, waita minute.
I thought that this was theanswer.
And I get rejected.
And I know that there arepeople out there who are having
this exact experience wherethey're finally ready to stop
people pleasing.
They out there who are havingthis exact experience where
(17:08):
they're finally ready to stoppeople pleasing, they're finally
ready to stop giving upthemselves for other people and
they want to be known forthemselves.
But the problem that I found isthat we just go to the same
places.
We go to the same places withthe same kinds of people.
Now, for me personally, I movedaround the country.
I moved from Ohio to Californiato Chicago and I finally
thought well, you know, I movedaround the country.
I moved from Ohio to Californiato Chicago and I finally
thought well, you know, I'mgoing to unmask and be my
authentic self.
And it just kept gettingrejected because I kept going to
(17:29):
the same kinds of places, eventhough I was in different states
, I kept going to the same kindsof places and doing the same
kinds of things around thepeople that I was familiar with
and that didn't break thepattern.
So I kept getting rejected.
It's like no, lee, coach Lee,this is not the place for you to
be, but, oh, I don't know whereelse to be.
(17:50):
I don't want to be alone.
We get stuck in that space, too, where we're just like I don't
want to be alone.
I want people to understand meright now, right now, and I get
that pain.
But there's a period of timewhere we have to reimagine,
reinvent and become ourauthentic self.
Be comfortable with facingrejection, because you may have
(18:12):
lived decades avoiding it, andfeeling it for the first time in
several decades so intensely byshowing your authentic self is
going to make you crumble, it'sgoing to make you scared and
you're not going to want to goout there.
But the truth is you need toprepare yourself for that,
because rejection is redirectionand everybody's going to
understand you.
(18:32):
You don't understand everybody.
You don't want to knoweverybody either, but you want
those people who are going toknow your authentic self and it
seems like you there, but youwant those people who are going
to know your authentic self andit seems like you, sarah, have
this relationship with yourhusband where you do, you're
able to unmask, and they're ableto look at you and say, oh hey,
I see that you're not takingcare of yourself in this way.
Let me see what's going on.
(18:55):
Let's talk, let's be open witheach other, and I think we're
all looking for that, but thefirst hint of not getting it
makes us run away.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, especially if you have it, go for it I was
gonna say I love that you saidrejection is direct redirection,
because we say rejection isprotection yeah so it's very,
you know, it's so so similarthat we were like, and you know,
while you were thinking I waslike, you know I'm, yes, number
one consider myself one of theluckiest humans on the earth
(19:31):
that I've get emotional hairfound like literally my soulmate
, who I thought I didn't knowwhat it was going to be like to
not be lonely.
I didn't.
Sometimes I don't even rememberwhat it's like and I don't ever
want to remember again, youknow, but that's how lucky that
(19:51):
it's been for me and, um, Iwould, I'll never take it for
granted and I think that that'ssomething that people, that
people possibly, you know, likeyou said, they really you have
to come to a place where numberone for me it started out as a
friendship, which is where I wasable to be my real self and
(20:15):
really just raw and like, sayall the bad things Cause this is
somebody that I never hadanticipated having a
relationship with, and so allthe raw, dirty garbage came out,
and it was nice because it wassomebody who you know, that we
shared all of this crazy stuffwith each other, and then we
(20:37):
started to realize that we werespending so much time together.
Maybe that had to be somethingwith that and you're going to
love this.
We flipped a quarter.
Whether we should date or not,heads we date tails.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
We don't Wow what happened.
How did it go?
Yeah right.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
We are here today.
We still flip quarters forreasons sometimes you know, to
really trust the universe put uson the right path to begin with
, and now we have ultimate trust, I would say, in that we found
so much work, but it's beenmutual and it's all been.
(21:22):
You know this teamwork and,yeah, it came with some amazing
things because he had a sisterwith down syndrome that he grew
up with and so he already hadthis like understanding of what
it looked like to have a foreversister, a forever roommate, a
(21:42):
forever person with you.
And so when our son wasdiagnosed which was our kind of
beginning of our journey at 16months old, and we realized at
that point this is our foreverknow roommate and kind of in his
situation, and so it was sonice that he already had that
(22:04):
heart, that he already had that,like you know that love for
other people care of and supportand nurture.
Oh, it's so great, yeah, I meanit just so much easier.
And then you know, we have twokids, are on our own and and he
also has a daughter that's movedaway and has her own family,
(22:25):
and it's just crazy.
It's crazy how much time canpass and how much things can
change.
But you know, yeah, there'snever a day when I would go back
to wanting to, yeah, to havingto be scared and being alone
again.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
So yeah, I understand it's awful to to be in that
space and, you know, I think theworst part about it for me was
to look at others and think thatthey had it all together and
they're not alone and nobodyunderstands what it feels like
to be so alone.
Well, hey, the pandemic reallyhelped other people understand
(23:03):
and I think that, yeah right, Imean, it's been five years since
it and there's so many peopleout there who were just busy and
pretending and really notconnected.
They were busy doing somethingwith other people and not really
connected.
We're busy doing something withother people and not really
connected.
That's what I was doing.
(23:23):
I was busy doing other thingswith other people.
I was in clubs andorganizations and commuting back
and forth to work and I wasn'treally connected with those
people.
I couldn't call anybody andtell them about my problems.
I couldn't call anybody andtell them about the exciting
things that I was going to do onthe weekend.
I couldn't do those things.
I didn't have a real connection.
(23:45):
And I found that during thepandemic, a lot of people got to
spend time alone.
And I spent some time alone andthe universe really opened up
to me and said look, lee, do youwant what you have?
I mean you have a nice job, youcan order DoorDash every day.
You never had to cook foryourself.
If you want what you have Imean you have a nice job, you
can order DoorDash every day.
You never had to cook foryourself if you want, so you can
do that, but you're sittinghere alone and you're eating all
(24:07):
day, all the time.
Do you want this or do you wantsomething else?
And I chose the something else.
I chose this the coaching, thehelping people make more
meaningful relationships, andit's what I do for myself too.
Everything I like we talkedabout at the beginning
everything I do is based on myown life experience, and so I
tell my clients to go out there.
(24:28):
And if you're struggling tomeet people, because I work with
people who are adults and whoare people come to me usually 35
and plus 35 and older becausethey've already set a routine
and now they're discovering thatthey need to unmask, in the
first place, what it feels likefacing that rejection and then
discovering who they are.
(24:49):
And so I tell them you have togo out there and go to places,
and I know I just talked abouthow, if you go out there and you
get rejected.
It feels awful, I understand,but we start a whole new way to
go out there.
We talk about where you need togo and what you need to talk
about specifically.
And I'll share with you apersonal anecdote.
(25:09):
Last weekend I just went out toa charity event to help sort
clothing, so it was more like avolunteering event.
It sorted thrift clothing,sorting thrift clothing so it
was more like a volunteeringevent sorting thrift clothing,
and I loved it because italigned with my values.
I chose this place.
(25:29):
It aligned with my valuesbecause I want to speak to
people who believe in recycling,I want to talk to people who
believe in giving back, and so Ialso love thrifting myself, and
so all those things match mycriteria.
And when I say go out there tomeet people and go to places,
I'm not talking about going toclubs.
I'm talking about going toplaces that align with your
(25:51):
values.
And if you don't know what yourvalues are because you've masked
for so long and you're afraidto talk to people because you
don't know what to talk about,then this is the way to do it.
You really have to spend sometime figuring out yourself and
then going out there to connectwith people facing that
rejection, and that's where Ihelp my clients, help my clients
(26:12):
through that process todiscover, because I've been
there, I know what it feels likeit's awful to be alone.
And if you stay at home and youthink nobody understands me
nobody, I wish somebodyunderstands me You're going to
be stuck there.
There are plenty of people whounderstand you.
I'm one of them.
Sj is one of them.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
Yeah, we were one of those people.
We were those people and wefound something greater.
And you can too.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah, and that's when you decided to do patterns of
possibility.
And for those who are listening, um, um, you can go check out
patternsofpossibilitycom.
Hopefully that is the correctwebsite.
That is correct and I love that.
(27:06):
Earlier in our conversation,you had mentioned how you are
able to see these patterns.
So that's so wonderful that youcame up with that name of it
and everything.
So that's so wonderful that you, you know, came up with that
name of it and everything.
How do you help people seetheir own patterns?
Is there kind of any kind ofyou know, worksheets or what do
(27:30):
you do as far as helping people?
Do they need to start graphingthemselves to see what they're
doing?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Maybe that's what I'm good at.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I like to chart.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
You know, I, in my former life I was an analyst who
worked with numbers to tellstories.
So this is where my mysuperpowers of looking at
patterns and telling storiescome into play little data
points.
So I want you all to write downthese data points for me.
But, seriously, I have usedthat to help me and I recognize
(28:07):
help people recognize thepatterns from down to their
self-talk and what they'resaying to each other, or what
they're saying to themselves, orwhere they're going, how
they're behaving in those spacesand the results that they're
getting from those spaces.
Help them understand more abouthow they're showing up.
I like to consider myself ashiny cosmic mirror, a shiny
(28:29):
mirror who helps you understandwho you are and what you see.
We all are reflections of eachother and I want to tell you
what I'm experiencing with youso that you can understand what
other people are experiencingwith you, so that you can make
different choices.
And if you go to my website, Idon't have any worksheets
available for you just yet,actually, but I do have a really
(28:53):
awesome seven minute video.
If you're afraid of you know,making authentic connections,
you're afraid of going out thereand you don't want to open up
to people.
This video is called how to bevulnerable without being
overexposed, because the key toconnection really is being
vulnerable.
You really do have to open up,to show somebody something.
You can't just do things forthem.
(29:15):
You can't just show up for themin ways that you hope that they
would show up for you.
You can't just do things forthem.
You can't just show up for themin ways that you hope that they
would show up for you.
You have to be able to givethem a reason to show up.
If they know you, if they careabout you, if they like you for
who you are, then they will showup for you.
So in this video I talk forseven minutes.
I break it down.
I even have a little chart, Ihave a whiteboard that I go
(29:37):
through the process with when Italk about it.
Because we're autistic, right,we want actionable steps.
It's not just get out there anddo it.
That's so much.
And people would tell me thatJust go do it.
Just go be yourself.
I can't.
I don't know how.
What do you mean I'm getting?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
rejected.
I didn't even tell me, write itdown help me.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
So this really gives you some actionable steps how to
be vulnerable without beingoverexposed.
So go watch the video.
It's just seven minutes long.
There's nothing you have tosign up for.
If you love it, if you like it,if you learn something from it,
leave a comment that's all Iask and share it with other
people.
If it was helpful for you andif you wanted to work with me,
(30:17):
you can find opportunities to dothat as well.
I'll just share quickly that Iam organizing a Trust and Thrive
tribe, so it's to get peopletogether to talk about their
experiences so they feel lessalone and go through some
coaching to understand.
This is where you get access totons of resources to help you
(30:40):
make meaningful connections andyou get to talk to me as well.
So you can sign up for the waitlist and learn more about what
the Trust and Thrive Tribe is atthe PatternsOfPossibilitycom.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I love that PatternsOfPossibilitycom for you
listeners and viewers.
Of course, you saw the websiteand can go ahead and copy and
paste it right now, so excitedto learn more about that.
And there's there's one thing Ilove.
It's connecting people and youknow, I really found that early
(31:14):
on in my journey.
It was um a parent the mypreschool at.
He was only in preschool at thetime, but the principal at the
school said you know, I alwayssee you talking to all the other
parents out there, and that'ssomething I've never been afraid
of is talking to new people, tostrangers.
I've always had this um, Idon't know, longing, I guess, if
(31:39):
you will, to want to maybe makeconnections, and so I will put
myself out there and I'm a riskyperson like that.
I suppose I'll do it and I findthat now you know you've
learned what works and whatdoesn't.
Doesn't I compliment especiallythe.
I call them the thanklesspeople, the people that don't.
(32:02):
People don't stop to thank.
I stop and thank the lady who'staking the garbage out in the
hospital or the person who's,you know, sweeping outside the
Home Depot or whatever, like.
I always stop and thank thosepeople and say I see your hard
work and everything, because Ithink that, first of all,
(32:23):
spreading kindness is the bestway to you know, bring it back
to yourself, and I love to watchpeople light up when they are
just not feeling valued.
maybe and you can see that in alot of, just like you know, in a
lot of people out in the world,and so I don't know maybe
that's a superpower, just to beable to see where you can shine
(32:46):
light.
You know Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
I think that's a beautiful way to look at it.
I encourage people to go outthere and shine your light,
because in this world ofdarkness and people are
constantly angry and frustratedif they just had a little bit of
thank you, if they just had alittle bit of light shed on them
, if they just had someone tosay, hey, I see you and I
appreciate you, the world wouldbe a better place.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yep, well, I'm out there doing it, yeah.
So I challenge you, listeningand viewing, to do the same Step
up and do it right.
Let's do this, let's make ithappen.
I think that it's a rippleeffect and it can really create
change.
(33:30):
I love what you're doing andI'm really grateful for the
services and the time thatyou're spending for the autistic
community, especially the latediagnosed autistic community,
and how important it is to, likeyou said, not only be invited
(33:51):
but be welcome and belong in aplace where you can feel safe
and unmask and be yourself andalways reach out to, like Coach
Lee said himself, or myself, andwe'd be happy to help you find
resources if you are strugglingto find them in your own
(34:13):
community.
So please let us know.
It's been such a pleasure toget to know you today.
Are there some other placesthat people can go and find you?
Social medias, things like that?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Absolutely.
You can find me atpatternsofpossibilitycom.
Of course that's my website.
And then I'm at Patterns ofPossibility on all social media.
That's YouTube, linkedin,facebook, tiktok.
I'm out there, but most active.
I'm most active, believe it ornot, on LinkedIn I am.
(34:46):
I also have a podcast.
I should mention that.
It's called the Patterns ofPossibility Podcast.
You can also find me there.
I talk a moment.
The structure of the podcast isI talk a bit about an issue
that my clients are facing and Ishare some insight and then I
answer a question on.
I answer a user question or awrite-in question about
(35:07):
something that someone isstruggling with with their
relationships, friendships,coworkers, whatever it is, and I
give them some insight andadvice.
So if you want to listen, ifyou want some insight and advice
also, you can write me atpatterns of possibility at
gmailcom.
You can connect with me viaemail too.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
That's fantastic.
Thank you so so much.
Those are wonderful resources.
I'm a shareaholic, so you'll beseeing your stuff thrown about
around and, yes, if I have areference, I will be using it.
So I love to, yeah, and there'softentimes people asking, um uh
(35:48):
, for coaches.
So I love to have my list of my, you know, favorite coaches to
recommend to people, and I thinkit's so important that we, you
know, are able to kind of tailorand connect each person with
the people that they would needthe most.
So thank you so much forbringing these wonderful
(36:11):
resources to my audience and tomyself, and I look forward to
staying in touch because I thinkwe're going to have some good
conversations and somecollaborations in the future.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, sarah aka SJChilds, for having me here and
being able to share your storywith me and allowing me to share
my story with your audience.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
It was a really great conversation.
Thank you so much with youraudience, that was a really
great conversation.
Thank you so much for your time.
We'll be in touch In the heartof the city.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
She's shining bright.
Oh yeah, stories of love andcourage.
All throughout the night, hervoice resonating An anthem for
all.
Through the trials and thetrials, she answers the call.
A mother and a fighter,breaking barriers and strife.
Love is her guide.
She'll never hide.
(37:22):
She's changing the world foryou With a heart that speaks in
strong Empathies, a melody.
In her journey we all belong.
Followers gather Like stars inthe night.
So bright, 44,000 voicessharing in the light.
(37:45):
She stands for family,advocates for more, a movement
of compassion.
Ways we'll soar Podcaststogether, symphony of support,
getting life changing report.
She's changing the world foryou, thank you.
(38:13):
And clear.
Together we ride, sheddingfears and every heart she plants
the seed of understanding andlove for dearly me.
Thank you.
The SJ Childs Show is Backford's 13th season.
Join Sarah Brafford and the SJChilds Show team as they explore
the world of autism and sharestories of hope and inspiration.
This season we're excited tobring you more autism summits
featuring experts and advocatesfrom around the world.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Go to sjchildsorg.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hi, thanks for joining the SG Child show today.
You're in for a greatconversation, so hope you're
having a great day, afternoon,morning, whatever you're doing,
if you're going for a jog orgoing to get some lunch or on a
nice drive just enjoy thisconversation and I know you'll
learn something I always do, soexcited to have Coach Lee
(01:00):
Hopkins with me today.
And today we're going to talkabout some really passionate
things that I resonate with,things that I know my listeners
resonate with.
So you're going to want tolisten.
You're going to want to makesure to get the website and
socials after this so that youcan go and follow.
(01:22):
And yeah, hi, coach, how areyou doing today?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Sarah, I'm doing really good today.
We're going to have a lot offun talking connecting.
Very excited to be here and tospeak to your audience.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Thank you, and I love the wall Is that?
Are those vines?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Yes, so I have some vines here on this.
They're not real, unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Well, I mean, I want them to be real, but the ones on
my right that are far behind me, those are real, I will I want
my pothos, have lots of goldenpothos and I want them to just
fill up the space because I lovethat kind of energy I do too,
as you can see, and I, I and Ihave a little fake guy way over
in the corner underneath thisguy to give it a little life or
(02:09):
a little fill.
So that's funny, but yeah.
I love my plants Exactly.
Oh gosh, it's so nice to haveyou here today and I know we're
going to have a greatconversation.
Let's just kind of start at thebeginning, I suppose.
Give us an introduction, let usknow a little bit about
yourself and what brought youhere today.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Sure, I am Coach Lee Hopkins.
I'm the social connectionscoach for the late diagnosed
autistic adult, and I do thisbecause I struggled with making
meaningful relationships for myentire life.
So social connections I meanfriends, family, business,
coworkers, whoever it was, youname it.
I destroyed it and I justdidn't know what I was doing.
(02:52):
I didn't know how to create arelationship.
I didn't know that my family itwas a bit dysfunctional, we
would say.
People just weren't connecting,as I saw on TV.
So I grew up in the 90s and Isaw love and connection on TV,
full House, family Matters,fresh Prince.
(03:14):
All they do is just resolveissues in 30 minutes and
everybody's happy to talk outtheir problems.
And I thought you know what?
Whatever's happening in myfamily life isn't happening with
me.
I mean, I don't want it tocontinue happening.
So I'm going to go out thereinto the world and I'm going to
find those relationships that Isee on TV.
(03:34):
And boy, I was wrong, sarah.
I went out there into the worldwith no understanding of myself
and how to make relationshipsand it just fell apart.
I created the same disastrouskinds of relationships that I
saw in my family members or inother people that I was
(03:55):
connected with and I was like,oh, this is the worst, I don't
know what I'm doing, I need somehelp and support with this.
So I went to get some therapyto learn more about me and
myself, and I learned that I hadfeelings.
I had feelings and other peoplehad feelings.
So I didn't learn about autismyet I was in my thirties.
(04:18):
I didn't learn about autism yet, I just learned.
Other people had feelings and Ihad feelings, and that was the
key to making relationships.
And still, I was, like you know, going out there talking to
people with my newfound feelings, acknowledging their feelings.
There was just something offabout me and about the
connections that I was trying tomake, the confusion that I had
(04:40):
about how people talk to eachother and, furthermore, people
just wouldn't say exactly whatthey met or how they felt.
And I started to realize that,well, everybody has feelings,
but they're hiding them.
They're hiding them and I,autistic I want to tell you
exactly how I feel.
I want you to tell me exactlyhow you feel.
(05:01):
And I didn't realize this wassomething that was a trait of
autism until fairly recently.
So that's how I got to what Ido today.
It's an all personal lifeexperience.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I think that that's the best type of experience to
learn from.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I think education is where itbelongs, what it does for who it
does it for.
But living experience is soincredibly, um, important and
(05:34):
valuable.
It can bring so many lessonsfor people everywhere, um, who
didn't even know sometimes thatyou know they were maybe not
realizing that they had thesefeelings and I just I'm really
love what you had said aboutthat and the fact that you
(05:58):
recognized this is lookingdifferent to me.
I'm going to go find out why.
Thank you, thank you for youknow, showing up for yourself
and saying, hey, this, maybethis could look different.
You know, why does it?
And, and I understand exactlywhat you're saying, and
(06:20):
sometimes I really needclarification in conversations.
Yes, and I'm not trying to be.
You know, as a child, I wouldhave, of course, been viewed as
sassy and talking back and Iwould have never done that.
I'm a generalist daughter, so.
But you know, now I'm like Idon't understand.
(06:43):
Now I have a loving spousewho's also autistic, you know,
late diagnosed.
Now he and I, I can just say Idon't understand.
No, this is, this is not makingsense to me, and I slow him
down and I say wait, we gotta,we gotta we gotta start from the
beginning, cause I don'tunderstand this.
Yes, it's so nice to havesomebody on the same page, not
(07:07):
that we are on the same page ofour conversation, but in that.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
In the same sense that you really have to be able
to have those tools to bridgethe gap, because everyone is
trying to be heard, understood,appreciated and accepted be
heard, understood, appreciatedand accepted.
And the method or what they doto go about doing that is
different from what youexperience or what you're used
to because of their own lifeexperiences.
(07:32):
So I've run into people whojust don't want to share their
feelings because it's never beensafe for them and I'm like tell
me everything.
And they're like whoa, whoa,whoa, slow it down, slow it down
.
I don't want to tell youanything because I don't know
how you're going to treat it andit doesn't feel safe to me.
And I'm like wait a minute,you're not being forthcoming.
(07:55):
Well, I have to have the toolsto understand that they don't
feel safe, know that it's notabout me, and then also it's the
same for me.
I've not felt safe sharing myfeelings with other people or
even asking, like you and yourhusband have this ability to ask
and to to receive informationfrom each other.
But you know, so many times Ithink especially this is true
(08:18):
for a lot of people who haven'tbeen diagnosed autistic, but
they do have that question Ijust don't understand why
everybody else has figured itout.
What's wrong with you?
And they're like oh, I don'tthink that I should ask that
anymore, because every time I doI get in trouble for it, I get
shamed for it or be called alittle smarty pants.
(08:38):
Because you're asking theobvious.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Quotes the obvious the obvious quotes, the obvious
yeah, oh no.
It's fascinating and I thinkthat there's not enough um
education for everyone about thesocial constructs, of what
needs to be held together tohave, foster and, you know,
(09:05):
continue having relationshipswith people.
And I.
It's interesting because Ipersonally don't think it's been
something that no, I take thatback.
It's been something that I'vestruggled with, more in secret,
I suppose, than anything else.
Like people would look at meand never think that, oh, you
have a problem or you don't havea problem.
(09:26):
You know, making friends orreaching people, but when I was
growing up and I I've beenquoted in so many podcasts
saying this I literally feltlike a unicorn in the horse and
cow pasture, like I was not thesame as those other people
around me and I never fit inwith the groups.
I was friends with all of them,but I was never friends with
(09:50):
all of them.
Does that make sense?
Like individually, but never ina group or as like I was never
part of it.
I could just like know themoutside of whatever, but yeah,
it was, I was never included, Isuppose, and that's always, and
you always look back at yourselfand say you know what's wrong,
(10:13):
Like I, I'm pretty sure I looklike the rest of them, Like I
don't understand.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Yeah, it's.
It's a feeling like you'reinvited but you're really not
welcome there in this space,because you're going to say
something weird or you're goingto do something, or you're
thinking of something or you'renot sure about what to say.
I don't know if that was yourexperience, but that was
certainly my experience and Ijust wanted to avoid the group
scene altogether when I wasyounger.
But then I you know, I startedmasking and I'd be curious to
(10:43):
know about your experience withmasking.
I've discovered it.
I'm like well, this is it.
You know no more asking dumbquestions that are going to get
me in the trouble.
Just nod your head, smile andjust laugh at what other people
say.
Just smile, just do what theydo, because you're going to make
the relationships work.
(11:04):
If you come out of your shelland you start asking questions,
they're not going to like you.
So I've done that for so manyyears, probably for my teens,
until I would say you know, 30s,mid 30s I'm early 40s now but I
really started to take off thatmask for after so many years
(11:25):
decades even.
We were so conditioned withthat.
I'd be curious to know aboutyour experience because it was
helpful, but also it was alonely experience.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
So lonely and you know what.
I'm glad that you asked andit's exciting that you did,
because I don't know thatanybody has really ever asked me
about my masking experiencesand I think that you know, kind
of like you, I didn't evenrealize.
You know, I got my diagnosis at45.
And so it was going backthrough my mind and all of the
(12:00):
time.
But who really saw it was myhusband.
We've been together for 21years and so he really knows me
better than anyone, than myparents.
They'd been divorced for years,so they don't really know me
because they only knew me alittle bit because they lived in
different states and I'm, youknow.
So truly this is the person whoI've been with the longest in
(12:23):
my lifetime.
Truly, this is the person whoI've been with the longest in my
lifetime.
And there was a point in whichthe fight and flight shut off
and my husband said it wasalmost like I didn't lose
hearing, but I was not hearingas much as I had used, like I
(12:43):
was always on guard, I wasalways on.
I was always kind of like highyou know high anxiety, high
energy, Um, and I think thatthat came from years of
(13:07):
obviously being an only child toa military father, um, who was,
you know, very strict and sokind of like you said, just um,
do as you're told, like, show upand do what you're supposed to.
And that's what you do, andthat's what I did for show up
and do what you're supposed to,and that's what you do, and
that's what I did for.
And then, when it was time forme to make my own decisions, I'd
say I went a little off therails for a while.
(13:28):
It was like what decisions Ican make?
Them all the wrong ones.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
So now you shouldn't make those decisions.
You'll make that decision Likewell, I'm going to try it out
because I'm done.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
following your rules.
I'm going to do what.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I want to do.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah.
So I'd say that now I feel likeand it's so interesting because
I started podcasting before Iknew and so I could even
probably look back at like thevery beginning you know episodes
and stuff and still see thetense version of myself or
whatnot realizing, hey, likeyou're, you haven't you know,
(14:23):
you've just been like a mom insweatpants and a ponytail for so
long that you haven't doneanything for yourself.
And now you're like puttingdresses on and doing your hair
and hey, you still look nice andyou can still have friends and
meet people and do this and it.
I started realizing like, okay,I really have this like self
love and like caretaker you knowproblem where I only care for
(14:47):
others and I don't look anddon't respect myself as the same
.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah, that's something that I experienced too
.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, it's been huge for that to have changed and to
I feel like I'm I've let go ofthat person.
Not that I I'm not still anamazing caretaker for those I
love, but I'm also really morebalanced in what I need to, like
(15:17):
the last six months even.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Yeah, you have to be and that's what really creates
the relationships.
You know, I was a caretaker ora person who just gave and gave
and gave a people pleaserbecause that was going to keep
me safe.
I recognize that if I give andI give my time, effort and
energy to other people, thatthey're going to invite me to be
around and just like they'regoing to invite me, but maybe
(15:41):
I'm not welcome because I'm notshowing up, I'm not going to
share with you, I'm not going totell you a little bit about who
I am, because I was afraid toshow you that, because I
immediately believed that Iwould be attacked if I did it or
if I'd ask a question or if Ishowed up in a way that just
didn't match what they wanted,that felt good to me.
(16:02):
I wouldn't do that and so asmuch as I thought that being
there for other people or beinga people pleaser was going to
help me get closer to otherpeople, it just never worked.
It never worked because theyreally want authenticity and I
was afraid of rejection of thatauthenticity and it was a wild
(16:24):
thing to really discover.
And you know, my autism allowsme to catch these patterns,
pattern recognition, seekingthese patterns all over the
place and recognizing that, okay, I understand, it's a pattern
of me showing up not as myself.
So now, when I take this maskoff, let me show up as myself.
(16:45):
And I got rejected.
I would get rejected.
I'm like, oh no, wait a minute.
The universe is so cruel, waita minute.
I thought that this was theanswer.
And I get rejected.
And I know that there arepeople out there who are having
this exact experience wherethey're finally ready to stop
people pleasing.
They out there who are havingthis exact experience where
(17:08):
they're finally ready to stoppeople pleasing, they're finally
ready to stop giving upthemselves for other people and
they want to be known forthemselves.
But the problem that I found isthat we just go to the same
places.
We go to the same places withthe same kinds of people.
Now, for me personally, I movedaround the country.
I moved from Ohio to Californiato Chicago and I finally
thought well, you know, I movedaround the country.
I moved from Ohio to Californiato Chicago and I finally
thought well, you know, I'mgoing to unmask and be my
authentic self.
And it just kept gettingrejected because I kept going to
(17:29):
the same kinds of places, eventhough I was in different states
, I kept going to the same kindsof places and doing the same
kinds of things around thepeople that I was familiar with
and that didn't break thepattern.
So I kept getting rejected.
It's like no, lee, coach Lee,this is not the place for you to
be, but, oh, I don't know whereelse to be.
(17:50):
I don't want to be alone.
We get stuck in that space, too, where we're just like I don't
want to be alone.
I want people to understand meright now, right now, and I get
that pain.
But there's a period of timewhere we have to reimagine,
reinvent and become ourauthentic self.
Be comfortable with facingrejection, because you may have
(18:12):
lived decades avoiding it, andfeeling it for the first time in
several decades so intensely byshowing your authentic self is
going to make you crumble, it'sgoing to make you scared and
you're not going to want to goout there.
But the truth is you need toprepare yourself for that,
because rejection is redirectionand everybody's going to
understand you.
(18:32):
You don't understand everybody.
You don't want to knoweverybody either, but you want
those people who are going toknow your authentic self and it
seems like you there, but youwant those people who are going
to know your authentic self andit seems like you, sarah, have
this relationship with yourhusband where you do, you're
able to unmask, and they're ableto look at you and say, oh hey,
I see that you're not takingcare of yourself in this way.
Let me see what's going on.
(18:55):
Let's talk, let's be open witheach other, and I think we're
all looking for that, but thefirst hint of not getting it
makes us run away.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, especially if you have it, go for it I was
gonna say I love that you saidrejection is direct redirection,
because we say rejection isprotection yeah so it's very,
you know, it's so so similarthat we were like, and you know,
while you were thinking I waslike, you know I'm, yes, number
one consider myself one of theluckiest humans on the earth
(19:31):
that I've get emotional hairfound like literally my soulmate
, who I thought I didn't knowwhat it was going to be like to
not be lonely.
I didn't.
Sometimes I don't even rememberwhat it's like and I don't ever
want to remember again, youknow, but that's how lucky that
(19:51):
it's been for me and, um, Iwould, I'll never take it for
granted and I think that that'ssomething that people, that
people possibly, you know, likeyou said, they really you have
to come to a place where numberone for me it started out as a
friendship, which is where I wasable to be my real self and
(20:15):
really just raw and like, sayall the bad things Cause this is
somebody that I never hadanticipated having a
relationship with, and so allthe raw, dirty garbage came out,
and it was nice because it wassomebody who you know, that we
shared all of this crazy stuffwith each other, and then we
(20:37):
started to realize that we werespending so much time together.
Maybe that had to be somethingwith that and you're going to
love this.
We flipped a quarter.
Whether we should date or not,heads we date tails.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
We don't Wow what happened.
How did it go?
Yeah right.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
We are here today.
We still flip quarters forreasons sometimes you know, to
really trust the universe put uson the right path to begin with
, and now we have ultimate trust, I would say, in that we found
so much work, but it's beenmutual and it's all been.
(21:22):
You know this teamwork and,yeah, it came with some amazing
things because he had a sisterwith down syndrome that he grew
up with and so he already hadthis like understanding of what
it looked like to have a foreversister, a forever roommate, a
(21:42):
forever person with you.
And so when our son wasdiagnosed which was our kind of
beginning of our journey at 16months old, and we realized at
that point this is our foreverknow roommate and kind of in his
situation, and so it was sonice that he already had that
(22:04):
heart, that he already had that,like you know that love for
other people care of and supportand nurture.
Oh, it's so great, yeah, I meanit just so much easier.
And then you know, we have twokids, are on our own and and he
also has a daughter that's movedaway and has her own family,
(22:25):
and it's just crazy.
It's crazy how much time canpass and how much things can
change.
But you know, yeah, there'snever a day when I would go back
to wanting to, yeah, to havingto be scared and being alone
again.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
So yeah, I understand it's awful to to be in that
space and, you know, I think theworst part about it for me was
to look at others and think thatthey had it all together and
they're not alone and nobodyunderstands what it feels like
to be so alone.
Well, hey, the pandemic reallyhelped other people understand
(23:03):
and I think that, yeah right, Imean, it's been five years since
it and there's so many peopleout there who were just busy and
pretending and really notconnected.
They were busy doing somethingwith other people and not really
connected.
We're busy doing something withother people and not really
connected.
That's what I was doing.
(23:23):
I was busy doing other thingswith other people.
I was in clubs andorganizations and commuting back
and forth to work and I wasn'treally connected with those
people.
I couldn't call anybody andtell them about my problems.
I couldn't call anybody andtell them about the exciting
things that I was going to do onthe weekend.
I couldn't do those things.
I didn't have a real connection.
(23:45):
And I found that during thepandemic, a lot of people got to
spend time alone.
And I spent some time alone andthe universe really opened up
to me and said look, lee, do youwant what you have?
I mean you have a nice job, youcan order DoorDash every day.
You never had to cook foryourself.
If you want what you have Imean you have a nice job, you
can order DoorDash every day.
You never had to cook foryourself if you want, so you can
do that, but you're sittinghere alone and you're eating all
(24:07):
day, all the time.
Do you want this or do you wantsomething else?
And I chose the something else.
I chose this the coaching, thehelping people make more
meaningful relationships, andit's what I do for myself too.
Everything I like we talkedabout at the beginning
everything I do is based on myown life experience, and so I
tell my clients to go out there.
(24:28):
And if you're struggling tomeet people, because I work with
people who are adults and whoare people come to me usually 35
and plus 35 and older becausethey've already set a routine
and now they're discovering thatthey need to unmask, in the
first place, what it feels likefacing that rejection and then
discovering who they are.
(24:49):
And so I tell them you have togo out there and go to places,
and I know I just talked abouthow, if you go out there and you
get rejected.
It feels awful, I understand,but we start a whole new way to
go out there.
We talk about where you need togo and what you need to talk
about specifically.
And I'll share with you apersonal anecdote.
(25:09):
Last weekend I just went out toa charity event to help sort
clothing, so it was more like avolunteering event.
It sorted thrift clothing,sorting thrift clothing so it
was more like a volunteeringevent sorting thrift clothing,
and I loved it because italigned with my values.
I chose this place.
(25:29):
It aligned with my valuesbecause I want to speak to
people who believe in recycling,I want to talk to people who
believe in giving back, and so Ialso love thrifting myself, and
so all those things match mycriteria.
And when I say go out there tomeet people and go to places,
I'm not talking about going toclubs.
I'm talking about going toplaces that align with your
(25:51):
values.
And if you don't know what yourvalues are because you've masked
for so long and you're afraidto talk to people because you
don't know what to talk about,then this is the way to do it.
You really have to spend sometime figuring out yourself and
then going out there to connectwith people facing that
rejection, and that's where Ihelp my clients, help my clients
(26:12):
through that process todiscover, because I've been
there, I know what it feels likeit's awful to be alone.
And if you stay at home and youthink nobody understands me
nobody, I wish somebodyunderstands me You're going to
be stuck there.
There are plenty of people whounderstand you.
I'm one of them.
Sj is one of them.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
Yeah, we were one of those people.
We were those people and wefound something greater.
And you can too.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah, and that's when you decided to do patterns of
possibility.
And for those who are listening, um, um, you can go check out
patternsofpossibilitycom.
Hopefully that is the correctwebsite.
That is correct and I love that.
(27:06):
Earlier in our conversation,you had mentioned how you are
able to see these patterns.
So that's so wonderful that youcame up with that name of it
and everything.
So that's so wonderful that you, you know, came up with that
name of it and everything.
How do you help people seetheir own patterns?
Is there kind of any kind ofyou know, worksheets or what do
(27:30):
you do as far as helping people?
Do they need to start graphingthemselves to see what they're
doing?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Maybe that's what I'm good at.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I like to chart.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
You know, I, in my former life I was an analyst who
worked with numbers to tellstories.
So this is where my mysuperpowers of looking at
patterns and telling storiescome into play little data
points.
So I want you all to write downthese data points for me.
But, seriously, I have usedthat to help me and I recognize
(28:07):
help people recognize thepatterns from down to their
self-talk and what they'resaying to each other, or what
they're saying to themselves, orwhere they're going, how
they're behaving in those spacesand the results that they're
getting from those spaces.
Help them understand more abouthow they're showing up.
I like to consider myself ashiny cosmic mirror, a shiny
(28:29):
mirror who helps you understandwho you are and what you see.
We all are reflections of eachother and I want to tell you
what I'm experiencing with youso that you can understand what
other people are experiencingwith you, so that you can make
different choices.
And if you go to my website, Idon't have any worksheets
available for you just yet,actually, but I do have a really
(28:53):
awesome seven minute video.
If you're afraid of you know,making authentic connections,
you're afraid of going out thereand you don't want to open up
to people.
This video is called how to bevulnerable without being
overexposed, because the key toconnection really is being
vulnerable.
You really do have to open up,to show somebody something.
You can't just do things forthem.
(29:15):
You can't just show up for themin ways that you hope that they
would show up for you.
You can't just do things forthem.
You can't just show up for themin ways that you hope that they
would show up for you.
You have to be able to givethem a reason to show up.
If they know you, if they careabout you, if they like you for
who you are, then they will showup for you.
So in this video I talk forseven minutes.
I break it down.
I even have a little chart, Ihave a whiteboard that I go
(29:37):
through the process with when Italk about it.
Because we're autistic, right,we want actionable steps.
It's not just get out there anddo it.
That's so much.
And people would tell me thatJust go do it.
Just go be yourself.
I can't.
I don't know how.
What do you mean I'm getting?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
rejected.
I didn't even tell me, write itdown help me.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
So this really gives you some actionable steps how to
be vulnerable without beingoverexposed.
So go watch the video.
It's just seven minutes long.
There's nothing you have tosign up for.
If you love it, if you like it,if you learn something from it,
leave a comment that's all Iask and share it with other
people.
If it was helpful for you andif you wanted to work with me,
(30:17):
you can find opportunities to dothat as well.
I'll just share quickly that Iam organizing a Trust and Thrive
tribe, so it's to get peopletogether to talk about their
experiences so they feel lessalone and go through some
coaching to understand.
This is where you get access totons of resources to help you
(30:40):
make meaningful connections andyou get to talk to me as well.
So you can sign up for the waitlist and learn more about what
the Trust and Thrive Tribe is atthe PatternsOfPossibilitycom.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I love that PatternsOfPossibilitycom for you
listeners and viewers.
Of course, you saw the websiteand can go ahead and copy and
paste it right now, so excitedto learn more about that.
And there's there's one thing Ilove.
It's connecting people and youknow, I really found that early
(31:14):
on in my journey.
It was um a parent the mypreschool at.
He was only in preschool at thetime, but the principal at the
school said you know, I alwayssee you talking to all the other
parents out there, and that'ssomething I've never been afraid
of is talking to new people, tostrangers.
I've always had this um, Idon't know, longing, I guess, if
(31:39):
you will, to want to maybe makeconnections, and so I will put
myself out there and I'm a riskyperson like that.
I suppose I'll do it and I findthat now you know you've
learned what works and whatdoesn't.
Doesn't I compliment especiallythe.
I call them the thanklesspeople, the people that don't.
(32:02):
People don't stop to thank.
I stop and thank the lady who'staking the garbage out in the
hospital or the person who's,you know, sweeping outside the
Home Depot or whatever, like.
I always stop and thank thosepeople and say I see your hard
work and everything, because Ithink that, first of all,
(32:23):
spreading kindness is the bestway to you know, bring it back
to yourself, and I love to watchpeople light up when they are
just not feeling valued.
maybe and you can see that in alot of, just like you know, in a
lot of people out in the world,and so I don't know maybe
that's a superpower, just to beable to see where you can shine
(32:46):
light.
You know Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
I think that's a beautiful way to look at it.
I encourage people to go outthere and shine your light,
because in this world ofdarkness and people are
constantly angry and frustratedif they just had a little bit of
thank you, if they just had alittle bit of light shed on them
, if they just had someone tosay, hey, I see you and I
appreciate you, the world wouldbe a better place.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yep, well, I'm out there doing it, yeah.
So I challenge you, listeningand viewing, to do the same Step
up and do it right.
Let's do this, let's make ithappen.
I think that it's a rippleeffect and it can really create
change.
(33:30):
I love what you're doing andI'm really grateful for the
services and the time thatyou're spending for the autistic
community, especially the latediagnosed autistic community,
and how important it is to, likeyou said, not only be invited
(33:51):
but be welcome and belong in aplace where you can feel safe
and unmask and be yourself andalways reach out to, like Coach
Lee said himself, or myself, andwe'd be happy to help you find
resources if you are strugglingto find them in your own
(34:13):
community.
So please let us know.
It's been such a pleasure toget to know you today.
Are there some other placesthat people can go and find you?
Social medias, things like that?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Absolutely.
You can find me atpatternsofpossibilitycom.
Of course that's my website.
And then I'm at Patterns ofPossibility on all social media.
That's YouTube, linkedin,facebook, tiktok.
I'm out there, but most active.
I'm most active, believe it ornot, on LinkedIn I am.
(34:46):
I also have a podcast.
I should mention that.
It's called the Patterns ofPossibility Podcast.
You can also find me there.
I talk a moment.
The structure of the podcast isI talk a bit about an issue
that my clients are facing and Ishare some insight and then I
answer a question on.
I answer a user question or awrite-in question about
(35:07):
something that someone isstruggling with with their
relationships, friendships,coworkers, whatever it is, and I
give them some insight andadvice.
So if you want to listen, ifyou want some insight and advice
also, you can write me atpatterns of possibility at
gmailcom.
You can connect with me viaemail too.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
That's fantastic.
Thank you so so much.
Those are wonderful resources.
I'm a shareaholic, so you'll beseeing your stuff thrown about
around and, yes, if I have areference, I will be using it.
So I love to, yeah, and there'softentimes people asking, um uh
(35:48):
, for coaches.
So I love to have my list of my, you know, favorite coaches to
recommend to people, and I thinkit's so important that we, you
know, are able to kind of tailorand connect each person with
the people that they would needthe most.
So thank you so much forbringing these wonderful
(36:11):
resources to my audience and tomyself, and I look forward to
staying in touch because I thinkwe're going to have some good
conversations and somecollaborations in the future.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, sarah aka SJChilds, for having me here and
being able to share your storywith me and allowing me to share
my story with your audience.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
It was a really great conversation.
Thank you so much with youraudience, that was a really
great conversation.
Thank you so much for your time.
We'll be in touch In the heartof the city.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
She's shining bright.
Oh yeah, stories of love andcourage.
All throughout the night, hervoice resonating An anthem for
all.
Through the trials and thetrials, she answers the call.
A mother and a fighter,breaking barriers and strife.
Love is her guide.
She'll never hide.
(37:22):
She's changing the world foryou With a heart that speaks in
strong Empathies, a melody.
In her journey we all belong.
Followers gather Like stars inthe night.
So bright, 44,000 voicessharing in the light.
(37:45):
She stands for family,advocates for more, a movement
of compassion.
Ways we'll soar Podcaststogether, symphony of support,
getting life changing report.
She's changing the world foryou, thank you.
(38:13):
And clear.
Together we ride, sheddingfears and every heart she plants
the seed of understanding andlove for dearly me.
Thank you.
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