October 19, 2025 • 33 mins
What if the most powerful support is simply letting people try? That’s the thread we follow with guest Shea Belsky—autistic self-advocate, software engineering tech lead, and host of Autistic Techie—through a candid tour of early supports, hard-won boundaries, and the everyday tactics that make work and life more humane.
We start with the shift from “I’m uncomfortable” to “I’m uncomfortable because… and here’s what might help.” Shea breaks down how that language unlocks practical choices: time-limited social plans, exit strategies, and shared expectations with partners, friends, and managers. The Cornell party story says it all: one environment was a no, the next was a maybe—data that later shaped decisions about events, capacity, and recovery. We talk about the danger of comparisons, why safe-to-fail experiences matter, and how growth comes from calibrated challenges rather than blanket protection.
On the career front, Shea lays out a model for transparent communication at work: explain autism traits that might be misread, define the few accommodations that matter, and tie it all to outcomes. We unpack resume strategy for neurodivergent candidates (impact-first bullet points, clean formats, controlled info-dumping) and how managers can turn inclusion into shared agreements, not slogans. Then we dive into AI as a practical tool—drafting emails, structuring thoughts, practicing interviews—paired with guardrails around privacy, fact-checking, and critical thinking. Used wisely, AI reduces cognitive load; used blindly, it creates new risks.
We close with Autistic Techie’s mission: the overlooked overlap of neurodiversity and the workplace. If you care about autistic expression, accessible leadership, and the everyday systems that either amplify or silence people, you’ll find tools you can use today. If this resonated, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a quick review—what boundary are you going to set this week?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
The SJ Child Show is backwards, 13th season, joint
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This season, we're excited tobring you more office and summit
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Go to SJCilds.org to donate andto get more information.
(00:26):
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SPEAKER_01 (00:33):
Hello, we are back for another wonderful episode.
I'm very excited today to startthis conversation.
I know it's going to be great, alot of energy, and want to
welcome Shay Belski.
I hope I pronounced the lastname right.
Pretty phonetic.
It's so nice to have you here.
(00:53):
Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_03 (00:55):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Yes.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself and introduction, and
then we'll get started.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01):
Yeah.
So my name is Shay Belski.
I am an autistic self-advocate.
I currently work uh as a techlead to a software engineering
tech lead at HubSpot.
They're a Boston Cambridge-basedcompany out in the Northeast.
Uh I've my tech journey has kindof been all over the place.
I was a startup CTO for a whileat a company called Mentra.
(01:21):
Might be familiar to you or someof your listeners.
Um, I was at HubSpot oncebefore.
I've been at other big techcompanies.
I was at Wayfair for a littlebit, Google, IBM.
My tech career and journey hasbeen kind of interesting, having
a blend of both leadership andindividual contributor roles,
all while trying to be reallyconscious and self-aware of my
(01:42):
neurodiversity and how mymanager thinks about it, how my
team thinks about it.
And I'm just happy to talk aboutthat and my career.
SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
I love that.
And I'm so excited to hear aboutall that.
And I'll tell you about all thatlater why I'm excited because I
don't want to share too muchright now.
But I didn't know you did allthat stuff.
So that's cool.
I mean, I looked at yourwebsite.
I actually have it ready toshare with everybody right here.
So just in case.
But let's start kind of at thebeginning because that's where a
(02:12):
lot of people's story starts.
And tell us where your um autismjourney started, if you will,
about your diagnosis and kind ofthat process.
And then we'll jump into today'slife and and how we're how we're
doing.
SPEAKER_03 (02:25):
I was diagnosed at age two with what we called
Asperger's at the time.
That was a diagnosis that theyhad.
And for pretty much my earlypart of my life, I had every
support you could reallyconceive of.
My parents got me the supportthat I needed from a pretty
early point.
I had speech therapy, physicaltherapy, occupational therapy,
had an IEP from early point.
(02:46):
I'm pretty sure I did ABA.
Um, I definitely did ABA, noteven pretty sure.
Um, and I had a lot of likeone-on-one hands-on support
elementary school and middleschool.
Um, and as time went on, Istarted to kind of like the
pieces started to slowly clickin in my brain as far as me
being able to talk about mebeing autistic and talk about
(03:08):
like dysregulation.
I think the thing that I havereally had the most reflection
on over the last couple of yearsis being able to express like
I'm uncomfortable, but then thisis why.
I think when I was much younger,it was harder for me to express
that I was uncomfortable at all,and then be able to point to
something and say, this is why.
And only only recently, really,have I been able to fully
(03:30):
articulate that and say, I amuncomfortable, and I can point
to the cause and also follow upwith what I can do about it, if
anything.
And I wish that I had been moreself-aware of that as a kid, but
also I don't think I could havereally had the capacity to do
so.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Yeah.
Wow, that's fascinating too.
My son was diagnosed at 16months, and so he is now 15,
almost 16.
And I see kind of when you'retalking about it, I see a little
bit of that happening, theselike pieces falling into place,
and him being like a little bitmore understanding that, oh,
wait, I can't I can make friendstoo.
(04:07):
Like I can go and do things thatmy sister does, and uh, and it's
just so interesting andfascinating to see this new
growth and this like personalitythat's growing and and with all
parent hopes, of course,watching their child open and
flourish and discover more aboutthemselves, discover more about
(04:30):
the sis about society that henever seemed to be interested in
ever before.
So it's this refreshing.
SPEAKER_03 (04:37):
Yeah, like it's stressful.
And I've had so many parents goup to me, and like they offer me
as a comparison to their ownkids, but I have to push back a
little bit and say, like, mystory is unique and my story is
my own.
Not that your child or childrenare not going to do this, but
like the way that they get thereis probably gonna look very
different than it looked for me.
Like they may have an easiertime, they may have a harder
(04:59):
time, or as as difficult of atime as it was for me.
And I think people sometimeskind of see the end goal, they
see where I am, but noteverybody understands the steps
that it took to get there.
Like, I will not say that it waseasy, I will definitely say that
it came of a lot of difficultiesand challenges, but I don't
think that I would be asconfident and articulate about
(05:21):
it as I am right now had I notexperienced what it means to
self-advocate for myself, tohave to talk about it with
people, to be willing to beuncomfortable.
And I think if you try to handlethose things away or do it for
autistic people or on theirbehalf, it reduces a lot of the
meaning and the impact thatthose experiences present.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
I love how you said that because letting a human
have their own human experiencesis ultimately, I think, what
we're here for.
So I think that it's it's sonice and it's an idea that we
need to move into and be moreokay with in the future,
(06:03):
allowing more self-expression.
And I think that that'shappening a lot in community and
society, but autistic expressionand what society sees as
self-expression are different,and I want there to be like this
bridge where all expression isnormal and okay, and it doesn't
(06:23):
have to be like you know, umcatered to, I suppose.
It's so hard, isn't it?
Because it's individual, it'severy individual has their own
support needs, and everyone hastheir own challenges, everyone
has their own strengths.
SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
The thing that I've had to realize, and also say to
other people, is that not everyautistic person will be good at
everything, and sometimes thebest way for them to realize
that is to kind of put themthrough it in a way that's safe
but still has the sameevaluation.
You could have one autisticperson who has a really burning
passion to work on a train or towork in a hotel or work in a
(07:02):
kitchen.
And maybe you, as the parent,maybe you as a supporter know
that's a bad idea and you'retrying to dissuade them from it,
but maybe having an experiencethat for the first time for them
to really see like is somethingthat you actually want, and then
maybe like, oh, actually, no,this is overwhelming for me.
Actually, I can't do this forone reason or another.
And sometimes that's what ittakes to actually have that
(07:24):
experience, or maybe theopposite happens.
It's like, okay, maybe this wasa little bit loud, but I can
manage it because I I gain morebenefit and enjoyment out of it
than the cost of being here orwhat the pains are.
And just allowing autisticpeople to have those experiences
and to try those things out, toride that proverbial bike for
(07:46):
the first time and say, like,are they gonna make it?
Are they gonna fall and scrapetheir knee?
And if they do, will they learnwhat they did wrong and get back
up and try again, or will thatbe enough?
I think sometimes people arewilling to hand wave those
things away or not allow peopleto try because they're afraid of
people getting hurt.
And I don't want anybody to gethurt, but sometimes having that
(08:07):
experience of falling andfeeling what it does is the best
teacher.
It has the best experiencesattached with it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Do you have any memories that stick out for you
particularly about those typesof um uh opportunities?
SPEAKER_03 (08:26):
Vivid one comes to my mind.
My freshman year of college, Iwent to Cornell University,
which was a big and scary place.
And I didn't know anybody, Ididn't know any, I didn't know
much of anything, but I knewthat I wanted to try to put
myself out there a little bitmore.
I wanted to just try to see whatwould happen and get myself into
a situation where if I wasn'tcomfortable, I could just bail
(08:48):
out and I didn't lose anything.
And so I tried to go to thefresh and frat party with my
roommate.
And as you can imagine, it was avery overwhelming and crazy
experience for me.
Like it was a lot of everythingsound, light, taste, texture,
etc.
And as I was about to leave thisone party, I'd gone with a group
of people.
And the other people, otherpeople from this group were
like, oh, let's go to adifferent party.
(09:10):
And I'm like, do I really wantto go for this all over again?
And I'm like, well, let's justsee.
Like, let's just compare it.
And the second party ended upbeing a lot less overwhelming,
less noisy, less bright, less uhinundating.
And I'm like, okay, like I cantolerate myself here.
I'm still not in love with it.
But I think if I had to do thissort of thing again, if I was
like socially required to dothis where somebody really
(09:32):
wanted to, I could manage for acouple hours.
So if I hadn't put myself outthere in a situation, I would
never have like set mybarometer.
I would never have understoodthis is my level of comfort,
this is too much, and this islike maybe a little bit too
much, but not like abort ejectabort mission.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
I love it, and you're right, that was a really
good test measure, if you will,because you would be able to
leave if you needed to.
And nobody probably would havejudged or cared that much.
Um, but like you said, you foundout that okay, there are other
environments where it's not justbecause I hear the word party, I
(10:14):
don't have to think of just thisone party that had all of these
things happening.
It can be so many differentlevels and um and people, groups
of people, cultures, they dothings so differently.
Um, I think that that's it.
SPEAKER_03 (10:28):
Let me kind of establish like this is this kind
of party, but this is upper kindof party.
Just kind of give me like uhkind of a barometer of that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Yeah.
Do you find that you um have aneasier time with boundaries for
yourself for relationships withyour family?
I don't we haven't reallytouched on that or anything, but
what's that like for you?
SPEAKER_03 (10:52):
Yes and no.
I think I am I do still have theability to be clear and
articulate about my boundariesand say, like, I can do this or
I can't do this.
On the other hand, sometimes I'mstill kind of stubborn with
myself, and I try to push myselfinto situations what I shouldn't
go to, and it ends up hurting meor being very uncomfortable.
Like it's been really hot in ourarea, and like a week or so ago,
(11:14):
I went on a hot run with mywife, and I'm on my mind, I'm
like, I probably shouldn't dothis.
I didn't want her to go alone,and I didn't want to be at home
by myself, so I'm like, I'm justgonna go and it'll be fine.
And lo and behold, it was notfine, it was like 95 degrees.
I was sweating, I twisted myankle in the middle of the run.
Like, it just ended up beingreally not great for me.
(11:34):
Yeah, and I said to my wife, I'mlike, I don't blame you for this
because I should have like knownthat this was bad and like been
more honest with myself andbailed out of it, but I
stubbornly went anyway.
So this is just the price that Ihave to pay for being a little
bit too stubborn and trying totrying to tough it out and be a
tough guy.
But honestly, I was just doingmyself at this service.
But yeah, number situations withmy wife, like I'm really clear
(11:58):
about boundaries, I'm reallyclear about like what I have the
capacity for and what I'm ableto do.
Like, if we do go somewhere outlate at night and I'm kind of
tired or like my brain isn'table to manage the sound or the
light, I'll say, like, hey,like, I'm okay staying here for
like 30 to 45 minutes, but afterthat, I might head out of here.
And she's really great aboutthat.
Like, we compromise because likeI have like a capacity past
(12:20):
which point I can't reallyfunction that well.
So we my wife and I really get achance to talk about these
things and find the rightbalance.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
And is she autistic or neotypical?
SPEAKER_03 (12:32):
Uh neurotypical.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Oh wow, okay, that's fantastic.
My husband's autistic, and sowhen we both got our late
diagnosis, and it was, you know,because we were well, for him,
uh it was kind of funny becausemy son has these crazy like
eating and sleeping habits andthings that our you know society
just does not like.
And so I was like, wait asecond, this husband over here,
(12:56):
he's he does these things allthe time.
Like this was I know exactlywhy.
Um, so that was kind of funny tokind of urge him into that.
But then with the same thingwith our daughter, um, she was
like this brilliant little, weyou know, we called her a
grandma when she was like five.
She would knit, she would likespeak, you know, these full
(13:17):
conversation sentences.
It was like, Who are you?
Like, are where did you what oldsoul are you?
It's crazy.
Um, and it reminded me and someother family members.
They were like, You were kind oflike this when you were little
too, Sarah.
And so I was like, Really?
So when she got her diagnosis, Ithought, oh my gosh.
And my husband used to tease me,like, I would say, I don't know
(13:39):
where I fit in.
Like, I feel so like lost andconfused, and I just don't
understand why I don't like fitinto anything.
And he would always say, Well,here's my autism card, you can
have it, and you feel like youbelong.
It would kind of tease me.
Um, but then when I got my own,you know, and I was just like,
(14:00):
gosh, this makes so much moresense, and it helps me so much
with when I was a child havingum a lot of hearing um sensory
things, and I have little tinyears, I already have like a
physical outer, it's calledouter ear my microcia.
So it's already like thisdifference about me.
I always just thought I wasweird because of that, but it
(14:21):
turns out no.
Um, but yeah, it's beenfascinating.
And so I think when we were ableto kind of see that and see each
other for who we truly were.
Oh my gosh, we are about to haveour 21st or yeah, 21-year
anniversary coming up.
SPEAKER_03 (14:38):
Congratulations.
Whoa.
unknown (14:41):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Yes, that's exciting.
Hey, that's where you gottastart, you know?
I love that.
unknown (14:52):
I love that.
SPEAKER_03 (14:52):
We were a COVID relationship.
We first started dating likeFebruary 2020, and then like a
month and a half into dating,the whole world shut down, and
that very quickly acceleratedthings for our relationship.
Because we're like, do you wantto like quarantine together for
two weeks?
And that really teaches you alot about somebody when you're
around them for two weeks,having known them less than two
months.
(15:12):
And I think that really did alot for our relationship.
We had a lot of those like verytough early conversations with
each other because what else areyou gonna talk about?
There's not much else to do ornot much else to see.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
I love that.
I think that that's a brilliantway.
Yeah, my husband and I met asfriends first, and we just
became really, really close.
And in that, we were able tokind of share all of the things
that we may have held a littlebit more discretion if we had
thought we might have beendating that person.
So out with all of it, you know,which was kind of refreshing and
(15:45):
and good in overall becauseeverything there was nothing to
hide or nothing that could havebeen, you know, uncovered or
whatever.
So it was it was wonderful.
But it's been a long journey,but it's one I he's my best
friend, can't wait to see himevery single day.
So yeah, we just I think that Ireally hope everybody gets to
(16:09):
find their special person theway I got to.
And I'm an only child, so I grewup lonely and like wishing and
hoping that I could someday havethis, and now I'm like leaving
living the dream, really.
Like, true.
I love that.
So no complaints.
Yay.
Talk to us about work and howthat, you know, how it started,
(16:31):
any challenges with umboundaries with bosses or
co-workers, things like that.
What's that been like for you?
SPEAKER_03 (16:38):
It's been an interesting journey because I
think everyone's experience andunderstanding with autism is
pretty different.
We talk about it with differentpeople.
Some of them have an autisticfamily member or a loved one or
a friend or someone else theyknow.
So they're like their barometeror their understanding of autism
really varies based on theperson.
So at work, I try to keep itreally clear and explicit what
(17:00):
about what they should expectfrom me.
I say, like, I'm autistic.
You should know is that the waythat I communicate is kind of
different, the way that Isocialize is kind of different.
Um, I might not make eye contactsometimes, I might have flexible
hours.
Um, this is something you shouldknow about me.
Like my work style is prettymuch unchanged.
Like, I'll wear headphones inthe office.
But in general, like this iskind of setting the standard for
(17:21):
what you should know about itand try not to imagine or
hallucinate too much beyond thatbecause there's different
autistic people out there whohave different support needs.
And it helps for me to kind ofexplain mine up front and make
it very clear for people what Ineed and kind of what they get
out of it, if it makes anysense.
And the way the the clearer thatI am with people, the easier it
(17:44):
is for them to understand it,and then also advocate for me
and work with me about it.
And no one's ever given me ahard time over it.
I think people ask verifyingquestions and they seek to
understand, but nobody has everpushed back against me because I
think I make it very clear thisis what I need to do my job, and
they can really get behind thatbecause we're all here to do a
(18:06):
job, and if they can dosomething to help me do my job a
little bit better, then theywill, and that works two ways.
If they need something to do ajob that I can do, I'll help
them with that thing too.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
Yeah, and you clearly are good at your job, or
they wouldn't, you know, bewilling to do that too.
So, congratulations on that.
I think that that's fantastic,and I think that um there are a
lot of other autistics thatmight be listening that will
maybe gain something from thisand being able to really put
(18:36):
down clear intentionalboundaries with your
relationships, whether it issocial or business or you know,
anything like that.
I think that everyone shouldlearn how to do that.
I mean, I'm actually taking theopportunity to teach my
13-year-old more about that thanI am about like all of the math
(19:02):
or whatever.
So I'm like, no, you need toknow how to talk to people,
conflict resolute, ask for help,have clear boundaries, trust
your intuition.
These are life skills, these arereal life skills.
SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
I did a podcast episode on my own podcast
recently about like being ableto articulate and advocate for
yourself because ultimately youare your own best advocate.
Um, so I have my own show,Autistic Techie, where I talk
about like this in regards tothe workplace, but it all really
kind of aligns with like stuffin life too.
And if you aren't clear topeople about your being
(19:38):
autistic, about what you need,about resolving that in
situations, people willhallucinate.
Hallucinate is the wrong word.
People will imagine things orthey will pull them in from
their own lives and associatetheir experiences with yours.
Like people ask me somewhatfrequently about love on the
spectrum, and if I'm similar tothose people, and I have to kind
of like work to unwind that.
(20:00):
Not that I think that love onthe spectrum has harmful
portrayals of autism, butthey're just not accurate to me
and who I am.
So I just have to say, like,this is me, I'm different from
these people.
That doesn't mean that eitherone of our portrayals is wrong
or negative, it's justdifferent.
They have different lives,different special interests,
different strengths, differentsupport needs.
And so they're these two thingsare different, and neither one
(20:21):
of us is wrong or invalid.
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
Yeah, no, and I think that that's something the
world has yet to grasp.
Um, hopefully, we'll be gettingon that.
It is is this correct, by theway, too?
Did you say autistic techie?
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
Uh T T E C H I E.
I will put it in the chat overhere.
SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
Okay, perfect, perfect.
I just wanted to make sure Icould put that up.
So that's awesome.
Great.
I'm gonna save that.
Whoops, now I'm on the wrongscreen.
SPEAKER_03 (20:50):
I had an episode come out today about uh
reviewing your resumes.
And in that episode, I talkabout like this is resume tips
specific to neurodivergent meal,because there's a million
different guides that arepertinent to everybody.
But I go into more detail aboutlike info dumping if you're an
autistic person, managing formatand style stuff if you sometimes
lack attention to detail, um,and trying to be really clear
(21:13):
and honest about yourself, likebeing a little bit selfish, but
not overly so, remembering tokind of embellish the details.
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Yeah, no, I love that.
I think that that's a beautifulway to help people understand
because it you can fill out agood resume and things like
that, and you you know, but itreally needs to be fact-based
more than like opinion-based, Iguess, is what would you say?
So, yeah.
(21:41):
Um, tell what else about thepodcast?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat, like when it got started,
what made you what made youstart it?
SPEAKER_03 (21:50):
Um, I was coming off my last job where I was CTO of
Mentra.
Part of that job involved meduring a lot of speaking to
corporations and companies aboutneurodiversity and autism.
And in my current capacity withmy current company, that's not a
part of my day job.
It's like just something I do onthe side.
I do that as a self-advocate.
I do it because I care about it.
And I wanted to continue thatlevel of consistency and putting
(22:11):
myself out there, but I didn'twant to have to like chase
people down and apply to abazillion, jillion, trillion
conferences like every singleday.
That's something is exhaustingfor me.
I was trying to be like smartabout this level of effort and
do it in a way where I felt thatit was meaningful.
And I've been on podcasts fordozens and dozens of times.
I'm like, this is perfect.
(22:31):
Like, I'd love to do my own showbecause I have a really strong
idea of who I want to talk with,what I want to talk about, the
topics, these subject areas, andtrying to create this niche that
I think has been kind ofunderserved.
There's lots of podcasts aboutautism neurodiversity, and
there's a lot about like beingin the workplace, being on the
job and that job seekingprocess, but there's not a whole
(22:52):
lot that's in that overlap.
And uh part of the reason forthe name is I had all the social
media for autistic techie, I hadthe website, I had everything,
so it worked out very well.
And I liked I liked the rhymingbehind it.
My my brother said, like, Idon't love the name autistic
techie, it sounds autistic, andI'm like, Yeah, that's kind of
the point.
(23:13):
But also, like, I like the waythat it sounds, it's
alliterative.
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
I love it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:18):
I just liked how it sounded like, you know, that
makes sense, yeah.
Um, but no, people are reallysupportive about it, and I've
enjoyed doing it.
We've been live since February,and at this point, I like the
cadence that I have.
It doesn't, it's not too taxingfor me.
I it's work, but not like anexcessive, like soul draining
amount of work.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Yeah, exactly.
When you can really um procureit and like nurture it yourself
in the way you want to.
It's it's really based on all ofyour own uh you know
self-entrepreneurship,basically.
Like you can just do it allyourself, it's on nobody else's
terms or time frames oranything.
(24:00):
And so I kind of love thatbecause I can just set my, you
know, do my podcasts, do myrecordings, then upload and
schedule them out for weeks at atime, and then I don't have to
go back in there and be likebeating myself up all the time
about it.
And I know it's allpre-scheduled, so I've been
exactly yeah, it's nice.
(24:21):
Technology is uh it'sdefinitely, I think, a huge
asset um in my life, and itsounds like you are all you
know, being in tech, you use itquite frequently and everything.
Tell us about maybe some ideasthat you have about how
(24:43):
technology can really betterassist the autistic community.
SPEAKER_03 (24:47):
We're living in a world where the technology and
AI landscape is changing on adaily basis.
And I say this with with Mentrahaving been invested in by Sam
Altman, the guy behind ChatGPTand OpenAI.
So I've a no I've known aboutChatGPT and OpenAI for a pretty
long time, like longer thanmost, I would say.
And when ChatGPT came out, itwas such a huge life-changing
(25:10):
thing.
And it still is for a lot ofpeople to have this tool in your
back pocket to talk to it, tohave it work through formatting
of your resume with you, to actas kind of a coach.
I think with autistic people,especially, there's a lot of
concern and just some cautionthat needs to be had when using
(25:30):
those tools.
I'm not saying don't use ChatGPT.
I'm saying be careful andthoughtful and critical about
what you're putting into it andwhat we expect it to give back
to you.
Because these tools are by nomeans bulletproof.
Um, there's still ways peoplecan abuse them, unfortunately,
and people can still sometimesrely on that information as
gospel, as the word of truth,when in reality, there still has
(25:53):
to be a level of criticalthinking and scrutiny that is
applied.
But with all that being said, Ido still think that they are
good enough for a lot of usecases which directly pertain to
autistic people.
Like, help me make this emailsound more professional.
Um, help me talk through thesituation that I'm having where
maybe I'm going a little bitcrazy or maybe I'm actually like
(26:14):
in the wrong here.
I think it is good to bounceback with people and provide
them with some coaching andfeedback.
Um, and I think beyond that,there's still a lot of use cases
there that directly pertain toautistic people.
But I do still think there'swork to be done to really
emphasize that it's not likecrystal clear perfect, but it's
(26:35):
certainly getting there.
SPEAKER_01 (26:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
I mean, I use Chat GPT all allday, but um it's it's just so
helpful with my projects, andum, I even ask it about my
gardening things, you know, likewhat do I need to do here?
What I need to and I just itit's been it's been really nice
(26:58):
too.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun, andit's like my it's kind of funny
because my daughter and myhusband at first were just like
no, no, and I was like digdiving deep, you know.
I'm like, what?
This is my bestie.
What are you talking?
Like, this is like I have thisrelationship going on, you know,
(27:21):
and they're like, Oh my gosh,no, this is dangerous, you
shouldn't be doing, and nowthey're kind of like seeing how
much I'm producing and how muchmore um I mean really
productive.
And sorry to use the same wordover again, but truly, like my
days are so much moreproductive, and they see that
(27:41):
now and they're like, Okay, keepgoing.
Talk to your Betsy.
SPEAKER_03 (27:47):
It's a it's a powerful tool.
I think it I've just had to becareful about like making sure
that I'm double checking thingsthat it's coming back with.
I found that it's very helpfulfor like doing deep research and
doing deep homework on a topicwhen it's searching the web and
compelling information versusimagining things on its own.
If I say like go research atopic, go help me find something
(28:07):
about this topic on the web, itdoes a great job of that because
it does little wiggle room tohallucinate.
But I think if I ask stuff onits own, that's where it's more
likely to imagine something thatisn't there.
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
Yep, yep.
And I think you're right aboutthe safety parameters and I
guess maybe understanding whatyour intention is to be using
it.
Um mine is for I I all of myprojects are heart-centered, so
(28:39):
I feel fantastic about all ofthe things I'm doing because
that's you know, it's all comingfrom the right place.
Um, and I would never use itdangerously, but it's that that
is the case.
You're right about that, andthat is a dangerous thing, and
and but I am also not one to belike a fear thinker, so I just
(29:00):
try to dispel those things whenpeople bring them up.
Not to be naive, but just to notlike focus on it, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (29:07):
I just encourage people to be careful, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
Exactly, exactly.
It's been so nice getting toknow you and chat with you
today.
Tell us about anything comingup, projects you might be
working on, events, anythinglike that.
SPEAKER_03 (29:22):
Uh, my podcast, AutoTic Techie, is out there.
That's anywhere on the web youcan find it.
We're on all the podcastplatforms that are there.
I will be at the College AutismSummit in November if you are
going to be at that conferencefor any reason.
I I saw it as recently.
I'm actually in the first blockof breakout sessions after the
Monday keynote.
So come to my talk aboutneurodiversity and leadership
(29:45):
and how to prepare folks for uhmeaningful careers as leaders
and decision makers.
Um, I'm also going to be, ifyou're in the Northeast US for
any reason, I'm gonna be at theuh Northeast Regional Higher
Education Summit down in RhodeIsland.
So come see me.
I read this places.
(30:05):
And if you want to find me onthe internet, my name is Shadow.
There's only one of me.
If you search for me on the web,you will find me.
I promise.
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
I love it.
Love it.
Thank you so much for being myguest today.
Um this has been a greatconversation, and I look forward
to staying in touch and youknow, having you be my backup
speaker for whenever the eventscoming up.
And everybody listening to thismight come out after August
31st.
So you'll have to go to myYouTube channel and check out
(30:33):
the one in 31 connection afterthat.
But it's so great to have you onhere today, Shay.
Thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER_03 (30:40):
Thank you so much for having me, Sarah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
Yeah, I want to continue chatting.
So please stay if you don'tmind.
We're gonna listen to thisexciting song.
And we'll be back next week.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
She shining bright.
Oh yeah, stories of love andcourage all throughout the
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Her voice resonating, an anthemfor all trials and tribes.
She answers the call, mother anda fighter, breaking barriers and
strides.
Love as a guide, she'll neverhide.
(31:31):
She's changing the world foryou.
The heart is fits and strong.
And both these melody.
Journey we all belong.
Followers together, let's startin the night.
So right.
44,000 voices turned in thelight.
(31:54):
She stands for family.
Advocates more.
Movement of profession, ways forstore.
Podcast together, symphony onsupport, get in life, change the
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Changing the world for you.
The heart that's fitted strong.
The bug deeds the melody.
(32:18):
Jenny, we all belong to hereyes.
The vision clear.
Jenny fear It's in every heart.
She plans the seed or standardlove dearly me.
(32:48):
With the heart that is fierceand strong, but these are
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The SJ Child Show is backwards, 13th season, joint
(00:04):
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This season, we're excited tobring you more office and summit
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Go to SJCilds.org to donate andto get more information.
(00:26):
Congratulations to 2024 2000downloads of 300 episodes.
SPEAKER_01 (00:33):
Hello, we are back for another wonderful episode.
I'm very excited today to startthis conversation.
I know it's going to be great, alot of energy, and want to
welcome Shay Belski.
I hope I pronounced the lastname right.
Pretty phonetic.
It's so nice to have you here.
(00:53):
Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_03 (00:55):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Yes.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself and introduction, and
then we'll get started.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01):
Yeah.
So my name is Shay Belski.
I am an autistic self-advocate.
I currently work uh as a techlead to a software engineering
tech lead at HubSpot.
They're a Boston Cambridge-basedcompany out in the Northeast.
Uh I've my tech journey has kindof been all over the place.
I was a startup CTO for a whileat a company called Mentra.
(01:21):
Might be familiar to you or someof your listeners.
Um, I was at HubSpot oncebefore.
I've been at other big techcompanies.
I was at Wayfair for a littlebit, Google, IBM.
My tech career and journey hasbeen kind of interesting, having
a blend of both leadership andindividual contributor roles,
all while trying to be reallyconscious and self-aware of my
(01:42):
neurodiversity and how mymanager thinks about it, how my
team thinks about it.
And I'm just happy to talk aboutthat and my career.
SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
I love that.
And I'm so excited to hear aboutall that.
And I'll tell you about all thatlater why I'm excited because I
don't want to share too muchright now.
But I didn't know you did allthat stuff.
So that's cool.
I mean, I looked at yourwebsite.
I actually have it ready toshare with everybody right here.
So just in case.
But let's start kind of at thebeginning because that's where a
(02:12):
lot of people's story starts.
And tell us where your um autismjourney started, if you will,
about your diagnosis and kind ofthat process.
And then we'll jump into today'slife and and how we're how we're
doing.
SPEAKER_03 (02:25):
I was diagnosed at age two with what we called
Asperger's at the time.
That was a diagnosis that theyhad.
And for pretty much my earlypart of my life, I had every
support you could reallyconceive of.
My parents got me the supportthat I needed from a pretty
early point.
I had speech therapy, physicaltherapy, occupational therapy,
had an IEP from early point.
(02:46):
I'm pretty sure I did ABA.
Um, I definitely did ABA, noteven pretty sure.
Um, and I had a lot of likeone-on-one hands-on support
elementary school and middleschool.
Um, and as time went on, Istarted to kind of like the
pieces started to slowly clickin in my brain as far as me
being able to talk about mebeing autistic and talk about
(03:08):
like dysregulation.
I think the thing that I havereally had the most reflection
on over the last couple of yearsis being able to express like
I'm uncomfortable, but then thisis why.
I think when I was much younger,it was harder for me to express
that I was uncomfortable at all,and then be able to point to
something and say, this is why.
And only only recently, really,have I been able to fully
(03:30):
articulate that and say, I amuncomfortable, and I can point
to the cause and also follow upwith what I can do about it, if
anything.
And I wish that I had been moreself-aware of that as a kid, but
also I don't think I could havereally had the capacity to do
so.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Yeah.
Wow, that's fascinating too.
My son was diagnosed at 16months, and so he is now 15,
almost 16.
And I see kind of when you'retalking about it, I see a little
bit of that happening, theselike pieces falling into place,
and him being like a little bitmore understanding that, oh,
wait, I can't I can make friendstoo.
(04:07):
Like I can go and do things thatmy sister does, and uh, and it's
just so interesting andfascinating to see this new
growth and this like personalitythat's growing and and with all
parent hopes, of course,watching their child open and
flourish and discover more aboutthemselves, discover more about
(04:30):
the sis about society that henever seemed to be interested in
ever before.
So it's this refreshing.
SPEAKER_03 (04:37):
Yeah, like it's stressful.
And I've had so many parents goup to me, and like they offer me
as a comparison to their ownkids, but I have to push back a
little bit and say, like, mystory is unique and my story is
my own.
Not that your child or childrenare not going to do this, but
like the way that they get thereis probably gonna look very
different than it looked for me.
Like they may have an easiertime, they may have a harder
(04:59):
time, or as as difficult of atime as it was for me.
And I think people sometimeskind of see the end goal, they
see where I am, but noteverybody understands the steps
that it took to get there.
Like, I will not say that it waseasy, I will definitely say that
it came of a lot of difficultiesand challenges, but I don't
think that I would be asconfident and articulate about
(05:21):
it as I am right now had I notexperienced what it means to
self-advocate for myself, tohave to talk about it with
people, to be willing to beuncomfortable.
And I think if you try to handlethose things away or do it for
autistic people or on theirbehalf, it reduces a lot of the
meaning and the impact thatthose experiences present.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
I love how you said that because letting a human
have their own human experiencesis ultimately, I think, what
we're here for.
So I think that it's it's sonice and it's an idea that we
need to move into and be moreokay with in the future,
(06:03):
allowing more self-expression.
And I think that that'shappening a lot in community and
society, but autistic expressionand what society sees as
self-expression are different,and I want there to be like this
bridge where all expression isnormal and okay, and it doesn't
(06:23):
have to be like you know, umcatered to, I suppose.
It's so hard, isn't it?
Because it's individual, it'severy individual has their own
support needs, and everyone hastheir own challenges, everyone
has their own strengths.
SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
The thing that I've had to realize, and also say to
other people, is that not everyautistic person will be good at
everything, and sometimes thebest way for them to realize
that is to kind of put themthrough it in a way that's safe
but still has the sameevaluation.
You could have one autisticperson who has a really burning
passion to work on a train or towork in a hotel or work in a
(07:02):
kitchen.
And maybe you, as the parent,maybe you as a supporter know
that's a bad idea and you'retrying to dissuade them from it,
but maybe having an experiencethat for the first time for them
to really see like is somethingthat you actually want, and then
maybe like, oh, actually, no,this is overwhelming for me.
Actually, I can't do this forone reason or another.
And sometimes that's what ittakes to actually have that
(07:24):
experience, or maybe theopposite happens.
It's like, okay, maybe this wasa little bit loud, but I can
manage it because I I gain morebenefit and enjoyment out of it
than the cost of being here orwhat the pains are.
And just allowing autisticpeople to have those experiences
and to try those things out, toride that proverbial bike for
(07:46):
the first time and say, like,are they gonna make it?
Are they gonna fall and scrapetheir knee?
And if they do, will they learnwhat they did wrong and get back
up and try again, or will thatbe enough?
I think sometimes people arewilling to hand wave those
things away or not allow peopleto try because they're afraid of
people getting hurt.
And I don't want anybody to gethurt, but sometimes having that
(08:07):
experience of falling andfeeling what it does is the best
teacher.
It has the best experiencesattached with it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Do you have any memories that stick out for you
particularly about those typesof um uh opportunities?
SPEAKER_03 (08:26):
Vivid one comes to my mind.
My freshman year of college, Iwent to Cornell University,
which was a big and scary place.
And I didn't know anybody, Ididn't know any, I didn't know
much of anything, but I knewthat I wanted to try to put
myself out there a little bitmore.
I wanted to just try to see whatwould happen and get myself into
a situation where if I wasn'tcomfortable, I could just bail
(08:48):
out and I didn't lose anything.
And so I tried to go to thefresh and frat party with my
roommate.
And as you can imagine, it was avery overwhelming and crazy
experience for me.
Like it was a lot of everythingsound, light, taste, texture,
etc.
And as I was about to leave thisone party, I'd gone with a group
of people.
And the other people, otherpeople from this group were
like, oh, let's go to adifferent party.
(09:10):
And I'm like, do I really wantto go for this all over again?
And I'm like, well, let's justsee.
Like, let's just compare it.
And the second party ended upbeing a lot less overwhelming,
less noisy, less bright, less uhinundating.
And I'm like, okay, like I cantolerate myself here.
I'm still not in love with it.
But I think if I had to do thissort of thing again, if I was
like socially required to dothis where somebody really
(09:32):
wanted to, I could manage for acouple hours.
So if I hadn't put myself outthere in a situation, I would
never have like set mybarometer.
I would never have understoodthis is my level of comfort,
this is too much, and this islike maybe a little bit too
much, but not like abort ejectabort mission.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
I love it, and you're right, that was a really
good test measure, if you will,because you would be able to
leave if you needed to.
And nobody probably would havejudged or cared that much.
Um, but like you said, you foundout that okay, there are other
environments where it's not justbecause I hear the word party, I
(10:14):
don't have to think of just thisone party that had all of these
things happening.
It can be so many differentlevels and um and people, groups
of people, cultures, they dothings so differently.
Um, I think that that's it.
SPEAKER_03 (10:28):
Let me kind of establish like this is this kind
of party, but this is upper kindof party.
Just kind of give me like uhkind of a barometer of that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Yeah.
Do you find that you um have aneasier time with boundaries for
yourself for relationships withyour family?
I don't we haven't reallytouched on that or anything, but
what's that like for you?
SPEAKER_03 (10:52):
Yes and no.
I think I am I do still have theability to be clear and
articulate about my boundariesand say, like, I can do this or
I can't do this.
On the other hand, sometimes I'mstill kind of stubborn with
myself, and I try to push myselfinto situations what I shouldn't
go to, and it ends up hurting meor being very uncomfortable.
Like it's been really hot in ourarea, and like a week or so ago,
(11:14):
I went on a hot run with mywife, and I'm on my mind, I'm
like, I probably shouldn't dothis.
I didn't want her to go alone,and I didn't want to be at home
by myself, so I'm like, I'm justgonna go and it'll be fine.
And lo and behold, it was notfine, it was like 95 degrees.
I was sweating, I twisted myankle in the middle of the run.
Like, it just ended up beingreally not great for me.
(11:34):
Yeah, and I said to my wife, I'mlike, I don't blame you for this
because I should have like knownthat this was bad and like been
more honest with myself andbailed out of it, but I
stubbornly went anyway.
So this is just the price that Ihave to pay for being a little
bit too stubborn and trying totrying to tough it out and be a
tough guy.
But honestly, I was just doingmyself at this service.
But yeah, number situations withmy wife, like I'm really clear
(11:58):
about boundaries, I'm reallyclear about like what I have the
capacity for and what I'm ableto do.
Like, if we do go somewhere outlate at night and I'm kind of
tired or like my brain isn'table to manage the sound or the
light, I'll say, like, hey,like, I'm okay staying here for
like 30 to 45 minutes, but afterthat, I might head out of here.
And she's really great aboutthat.
Like, we compromise because likeI have like a capacity past
(12:20):
which point I can't reallyfunction that well.
So we my wife and I really get achance to talk about these
things and find the rightbalance.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
And is she autistic or neotypical?
SPEAKER_03 (12:32):
Uh neurotypical.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Oh wow, okay, that's fantastic.
My husband's autistic, and sowhen we both got our late
diagnosis, and it was, you know,because we were well, for him,
uh it was kind of funny becausemy son has these crazy like
eating and sleeping habits andthings that our you know society
just does not like.
And so I was like, wait asecond, this husband over here,
(12:56):
he's he does these things allthe time.
Like this was I know exactlywhy.
Um, so that was kind of funny tokind of urge him into that.
But then with the same thingwith our daughter, um, she was
like this brilliant little, weyou know, we called her a
grandma when she was like five.
She would knit, she would likespeak, you know, these full
(13:17):
conversation sentences.
It was like, Who are you?
Like, are where did you what oldsoul are you?
It's crazy.
Um, and it reminded me and someother family members.
They were like, You were kind oflike this when you were little
too, Sarah.
And so I was like, Really?
So when she got her diagnosis, Ithought, oh my gosh.
And my husband used to tease me,like, I would say, I don't know
(13:39):
where I fit in.
Like, I feel so like lost andconfused, and I just don't
understand why I don't like fitinto anything.
And he would always say, Well,here's my autism card, you can
have it, and you feel like youbelong.
It would kind of tease me.
Um, but then when I got my own,you know, and I was just like,
(14:00):
gosh, this makes so much moresense, and it helps me so much
with when I was a child havingum a lot of hearing um sensory
things, and I have little tinyears, I already have like a
physical outer, it's calledouter ear my microcia.
So it's already like thisdifference about me.
I always just thought I wasweird because of that, but it
(14:21):
turns out no.
Um, but yeah, it's beenfascinating.
And so I think when we were ableto kind of see that and see each
other for who we truly were.
Oh my gosh, we are about to haveour 21st or yeah, 21-year
anniversary coming up.
SPEAKER_03 (14:38):
Congratulations.
Whoa.
unknown (14:41):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Yes, that's exciting.
Hey, that's where you gottastart, you know?
I love that.
unknown (14:52):
I love that.
SPEAKER_03 (14:52):
We were a COVID relationship.
We first started dating likeFebruary 2020, and then like a
month and a half into dating,the whole world shut down, and
that very quickly acceleratedthings for our relationship.
Because we're like, do you wantto like quarantine together for
two weeks?
And that really teaches you alot about somebody when you're
around them for two weeks,having known them less than two
months.
(15:12):
And I think that really did alot for our relationship.
We had a lot of those like verytough early conversations with
each other because what else areyou gonna talk about?
There's not much else to do ornot much else to see.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
I love that.
I think that that's a brilliantway.
Yeah, my husband and I met asfriends first, and we just
became really, really close.
And in that, we were able tokind of share all of the things
that we may have held a littlebit more discretion if we had
thought we might have beendating that person.
So out with all of it, you know,which was kind of refreshing and
(15:45):
and good in overall becauseeverything there was nothing to
hide or nothing that could havebeen, you know, uncovered or
whatever.
So it was it was wonderful.
But it's been a long journey,but it's one I he's my best
friend, can't wait to see himevery single day.
So yeah, we just I think that Ireally hope everybody gets to
(16:09):
find their special person theway I got to.
And I'm an only child, so I grewup lonely and like wishing and
hoping that I could someday havethis, and now I'm like leaving
living the dream, really.
Like, true.
I love that.
So no complaints.
Yay.
Talk to us about work and howthat, you know, how it started,
(16:31):
any challenges with umboundaries with bosses or
co-workers, things like that.
What's that been like for you?
SPEAKER_03 (16:38):
It's been an interesting journey because I
think everyone's experience andunderstanding with autism is
pretty different.
We talk about it with differentpeople.
Some of them have an autisticfamily member or a loved one or
a friend or someone else theyknow.
So they're like their barometeror their understanding of autism
really varies based on theperson.
So at work, I try to keep itreally clear and explicit what
(17:00):
about what they should expectfrom me.
I say, like, I'm autistic.
You should know is that the waythat I communicate is kind of
different, the way that Isocialize is kind of different.
Um, I might not make eye contactsometimes, I might have flexible
hours.
Um, this is something you shouldknow about me.
Like my work style is prettymuch unchanged.
Like, I'll wear headphones inthe office.
But in general, like this iskind of setting the standard for
(17:21):
what you should know about itand try not to imagine or
hallucinate too much beyond thatbecause there's different
autistic people out there whohave different support needs.
And it helps for me to kind ofexplain mine up front and make
it very clear for people what Ineed and kind of what they get
out of it, if it makes anysense.
And the way the the clearer thatI am with people, the easier it
(17:44):
is for them to understand it,and then also advocate for me
and work with me about it.
And no one's ever given me ahard time over it.
I think people ask verifyingquestions and they seek to
understand, but nobody has everpushed back against me because I
think I make it very clear thisis what I need to do my job, and
they can really get behind thatbecause we're all here to do a
(18:06):
job, and if they can dosomething to help me do my job a
little bit better, then theywill, and that works two ways.
If they need something to do ajob that I can do, I'll help
them with that thing too.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
Yeah, and you clearly are good at your job, or
they wouldn't, you know, bewilling to do that too.
So, congratulations on that.
I think that that's fantastic,and I think that um there are a
lot of other autistics thatmight be listening that will
maybe gain something from thisand being able to really put
(18:36):
down clear intentionalboundaries with your
relationships, whether it issocial or business or you know,
anything like that.
I think that everyone shouldlearn how to do that.
I mean, I'm actually taking theopportunity to teach my
13-year-old more about that thanI am about like all of the math
(19:02):
or whatever.
So I'm like, no, you need toknow how to talk to people,
conflict resolute, ask for help,have clear boundaries, trust
your intuition.
These are life skills, these arereal life skills.
SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
I did a podcast episode on my own podcast
recently about like being ableto articulate and advocate for
yourself because ultimately youare your own best advocate.
Um, so I have my own show,Autistic Techie, where I talk
about like this in regards tothe workplace, but it all really
kind of aligns with like stuffin life too.
And if you aren't clear topeople about your being
(19:38):
autistic, about what you need,about resolving that in
situations, people willhallucinate.
Hallucinate is the wrong word.
People will imagine things orthey will pull them in from
their own lives and associatetheir experiences with yours.
Like people ask me somewhatfrequently about love on the
spectrum, and if I'm similar tothose people, and I have to kind
of like work to unwind that.
(20:00):
Not that I think that love onthe spectrum has harmful
portrayals of autism, butthey're just not accurate to me
and who I am.
So I just have to say, like,this is me, I'm different from
these people.
That doesn't mean that eitherone of our portrayals is wrong
or negative, it's justdifferent.
They have different lives,different special interests,
different strengths, differentsupport needs.
And so they're these two thingsare different, and neither one
(20:21):
of us is wrong or invalid.
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
Yeah, no, and I think that that's something the
world has yet to grasp.
Um, hopefully, we'll be gettingon that.
It is is this correct, by theway, too?
Did you say autistic techie?
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
Uh T T E C H I E.
I will put it in the chat overhere.
SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
Okay, perfect, perfect.
I just wanted to make sure Icould put that up.
So that's awesome.
Great.
I'm gonna save that.
Whoops, now I'm on the wrongscreen.
SPEAKER_03 (20:50):
I had an episode come out today about uh
reviewing your resumes.
And in that episode, I talkabout like this is resume tips
specific to neurodivergent meal,because there's a million
different guides that arepertinent to everybody.
But I go into more detail aboutlike info dumping if you're an
autistic person, managing formatand style stuff if you sometimes
lack attention to detail, um,and trying to be really clear
(21:13):
and honest about yourself, likebeing a little bit selfish, but
not overly so, remembering tokind of embellish the details.
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Yeah, no, I love that.
I think that that's a beautifulway to help people understand
because it you can fill out agood resume and things like
that, and you you know, but itreally needs to be fact-based
more than like opinion-based, Iguess, is what would you say?
So, yeah.
(21:41):
Um, tell what else about thepodcast?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat, like when it got started,
what made you what made youstart it?
SPEAKER_03 (21:50):
Um, I was coming off my last job where I was CTO of
Mentra.
Part of that job involved meduring a lot of speaking to
corporations and companies aboutneurodiversity and autism.
And in my current capacity withmy current company, that's not a
part of my day job.
It's like just something I do onthe side.
I do that as a self-advocate.
I do it because I care about it.
And I wanted to continue thatlevel of consistency and putting
(22:11):
myself out there, but I didn'twant to have to like chase
people down and apply to abazillion, jillion, trillion
conferences like every singleday.
That's something is exhaustingfor me.
I was trying to be like smartabout this level of effort and
do it in a way where I felt thatit was meaningful.
And I've been on podcasts fordozens and dozens of times.
I'm like, this is perfect.
(22:31):
Like, I'd love to do my own showbecause I have a really strong
idea of who I want to talk with,what I want to talk about, the
topics, these subject areas, andtrying to create this niche that
I think has been kind ofunderserved.
There's lots of podcasts aboutautism neurodiversity, and
there's a lot about like beingin the workplace, being on the
job and that job seekingprocess, but there's not a whole
(22:52):
lot that's in that overlap.
And uh part of the reason forthe name is I had all the social
media for autistic techie, I hadthe website, I had everything,
so it worked out very well.
And I liked I liked the rhymingbehind it.
My my brother said, like, Idon't love the name autistic
techie, it sounds autistic, andI'm like, Yeah, that's kind of
the point.
(23:13):
But also, like, I like the waythat it sounds, it's
alliterative.
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
I love it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:18):
I just liked how it sounded like, you know, that
makes sense, yeah.
Um, but no, people are reallysupportive about it, and I've
enjoyed doing it.
We've been live since February,and at this point, I like the
cadence that I have.
It doesn't, it's not too taxingfor me.
I it's work, but not like anexcessive, like soul draining
amount of work.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Yeah, exactly.
When you can really um procureit and like nurture it yourself
in the way you want to.
It's it's really based on all ofyour own uh you know
self-entrepreneurship,basically.
Like you can just do it allyourself, it's on nobody else's
terms or time frames oranything.
(24:00):
And so I kind of love thatbecause I can just set my, you
know, do my podcasts, do myrecordings, then upload and
schedule them out for weeks at atime, and then I don't have to
go back in there and be likebeating myself up all the time
about it.
And I know it's allpre-scheduled, so I've been
exactly yeah, it's nice.
(24:21):
Technology is uh it'sdefinitely, I think, a huge
asset um in my life, and itsounds like you are all you
know, being in tech, you use itquite frequently and everything.
Tell us about maybe some ideasthat you have about how
(24:43):
technology can really betterassist the autistic community.
SPEAKER_03 (24:47):
We're living in a world where the technology and
AI landscape is changing on adaily basis.
And I say this with with Mentrahaving been invested in by Sam
Altman, the guy behind ChatGPTand OpenAI.
So I've a no I've known aboutChatGPT and OpenAI for a pretty
long time, like longer thanmost, I would say.
And when ChatGPT came out, itwas such a huge life-changing
(25:10):
thing.
And it still is for a lot ofpeople to have this tool in your
back pocket to talk to it, tohave it work through formatting
of your resume with you, to actas kind of a coach.
I think with autistic people,especially, there's a lot of
concern and just some cautionthat needs to be had when using
(25:30):
those tools.
I'm not saying don't use ChatGPT.
I'm saying be careful andthoughtful and critical about
what you're putting into it andwhat we expect it to give back
to you.
Because these tools are by nomeans bulletproof.
Um, there's still ways peoplecan abuse them, unfortunately,
and people can still sometimesrely on that information as
gospel, as the word of truth,when in reality, there still has
(25:53):
to be a level of criticalthinking and scrutiny that is
applied.
But with all that being said, Ido still think that they are
good enough for a lot of usecases which directly pertain to
autistic people.
Like, help me make this emailsound more professional.
Um, help me talk through thesituation that I'm having where
maybe I'm going a little bitcrazy or maybe I'm actually like
(26:14):
in the wrong here.
I think it is good to bounceback with people and provide
them with some coaching andfeedback.
Um, and I think beyond that,there's still a lot of use cases
there that directly pertain toautistic people.
But I do still think there'swork to be done to really
emphasize that it's not likecrystal clear perfect, but it's
(26:35):
certainly getting there.
SPEAKER_01 (26:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
I mean, I use Chat GPT all allday, but um it's it's just so
helpful with my projects, andum, I even ask it about my
gardening things, you know, likewhat do I need to do here?
What I need to and I just itit's been it's been really nice
(26:58):
too.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun, andit's like my it's kind of funny
because my daughter and myhusband at first were just like
no, no, and I was like digdiving deep, you know.
I'm like, what?
This is my bestie.
What are you talking?
Like, this is like I have thisrelationship going on, you know,
(27:21):
and they're like, Oh my gosh,no, this is dangerous, you
shouldn't be doing, and nowthey're kind of like seeing how
much I'm producing and how muchmore um I mean really
productive.
And sorry to use the same wordover again, but truly, like my
days are so much moreproductive, and they see that
(27:41):
now and they're like, Okay, keepgoing.
Talk to your Betsy.
SPEAKER_03 (27:47):
It's a it's a powerful tool.
I think it I've just had to becareful about like making sure
that I'm double checking thingsthat it's coming back with.
I found that it's very helpfulfor like doing deep research and
doing deep homework on a topicwhen it's searching the web and
compelling information versusimagining things on its own.
If I say like go research atopic, go help me find something
(28:07):
about this topic on the web, itdoes a great job of that because
it does little wiggle room tohallucinate.
But I think if I ask stuff onits own, that's where it's more
likely to imagine something thatisn't there.
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
Yep, yep.
And I think you're right aboutthe safety parameters and I
guess maybe understanding whatyour intention is to be using
it.
Um mine is for I I all of myprojects are heart-centered, so
(28:39):
I feel fantastic about all ofthe things I'm doing because
that's you know, it's all comingfrom the right place.
Um, and I would never use itdangerously, but it's that that
is the case.
You're right about that, andthat is a dangerous thing, and
and but I am also not one to belike a fear thinker, so I just
(29:00):
try to dispel those things whenpeople bring them up.
Not to be naive, but just to notlike focus on it, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (29:07):
I just encourage people to be careful, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
Exactly, exactly.
It's been so nice getting toknow you and chat with you
today.
Tell us about anything comingup, projects you might be
working on, events, anythinglike that.
SPEAKER_03 (29:22):
Uh, my podcast, AutoTic Techie, is out there.
That's anywhere on the web youcan find it.
We're on all the podcastplatforms that are there.
I will be at the College AutismSummit in November if you are
going to be at that conferencefor any reason.
I I saw it as recently.
I'm actually in the first blockof breakout sessions after the
Monday keynote.
So come to my talk aboutneurodiversity and leadership
(29:45):
and how to prepare folks for uhmeaningful careers as leaders
and decision makers.
Um, I'm also going to be, ifyou're in the Northeast US for
any reason, I'm gonna be at theuh Northeast Regional Higher
Education Summit down in RhodeIsland.
So come see me.
I read this places.
(30:05):
And if you want to find me onthe internet, my name is Shadow.
There's only one of me.
If you search for me on the web,you will find me.
I promise.
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
I love it.
Love it.
Thank you so much for being myguest today.
Um this has been a greatconversation, and I look forward
to staying in touch and youknow, having you be my backup
speaker for whenever the eventscoming up.
And everybody listening to thismight come out after August
31st.
So you'll have to go to myYouTube channel and check out
(30:33):
the one in 31 connection afterthat.
But it's so great to have you onhere today, Shay.
Thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER_03 (30:40):
Thank you so much for having me, Sarah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
Yeah, I want to continue chatting.
So please stay if you don'tmind.
We're gonna listen to thisexciting song.
And we'll be back next week.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
She shining bright.
Oh yeah, stories of love andcourage all throughout the
night.
Her voice resonating, an anthemfor all trials and tribes.
She answers the call, mother anda fighter, breaking barriers and
strides.
Love as a guide, she'll neverhide.
(31:31):
She's changing the world foryou.
The heart is fits and strong.
And both these melody.
Journey we all belong.
Followers together, let's startin the night.
So right.
44,000 voices turned in thelight.
(31:54):
She stands for family.
Advocates more.
Movement of profession, ways forstore.
Podcast together, symphony onsupport, get in life, change the
ball.
Changing the world for you.
The heart that's fitted strong.
The bug deeds the melody.
(32:18):
Jenny, we all belong to hereyes.
The vision clear.
Jenny fear It's in every heart.
She plans the seed or standardlove dearly me.
(32:48):
With the heart that is fierceand strong, but these are
melody.
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