The conversation starts with a memory many families know too well: an early checkup, a handful of red flags, and years of whispered support plans. From there, we move into motion—Carol Waldman shares how a lonely path through therapies and IEPs grew into public advocacy, culminating in a unanimous San Diego measure to expand training and hiring for neurodiverse adults. Along the way, we unpack what real inclusion looks like: a high school three-pointer that turned tokenism into belonging, a faith community that gave meaningful roles instead of sidelined programs, and a DC internship that paired mentorship with responsibility.
We talk plainly about autism’s spotlight: awareness is up, but understanding often lags behind. Carol challenges the “cause vs. cure” narrative and makes a case for funding supports that change daily life—teacher training, sensory-aware classrooms, transition programs, and workplaces designed for different minds. She walks us through Andrew’s journey—pushing past lowered expectations, building confidence, navigating a pandemic quarantine alone, joining a new city’s social fabric, and learning the gritty skills of networking and persistence. These are not headline moments; they’re the scaffolds of independence.
If you’re an educator, you’ll hear concrete ways to reframe goals without shrinking expectations. If you’re an employer or HR leader, you’ll get a blueprint for inclusive job design, mentorship, and transparent communication. And if you’re a policymaker or advocate, you’ll see why data-backed programs and accountability in public hiring matter more than press releases. Most of all, you’ll feel the throughline: do not underestimate neurodiverse potential. Expect growth, provide tools, and watch confidence turn opportunity into outcome.
Subscribe, share this conversation with someone who needs it, and leave a review with one change you want to see in schools or workplaces. Your ideas help us push this movement from visibility to real access.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Hi, thanks for joining the SJ Child show today.
I'm so excited to have CarolWaldman here.
Uh, her son was just recently inthe 1 in 31 summit on the
advocates panel, and it's sobeautiful to see advocates find
their comfortable space andreally like find their voice and
(00:24):
speak up for themselves.
And kind of like Carol had said,just you learn something from
every single person that comeson and shares.
Um, and I'm so happy to have youon here today to get to know you
a little bit better.
And um, we miss you uh being notbeing able to be there, but
(00:45):
we're so glad that you know youjoined and um cheered everyone
on, and it means so, so much.
So thank you so much for beinghere today.
Oh, Sarah, thank you for havingme.
It's exciting, and I am thrilledto learn more about you.
I did do a little bit of, youknow, a little chat GPT, give me
(01:06):
some talking points um with MissCarol.
And so I'm really excited tohear about um more about your
advocacy and policy works andand things to that you're doing.
And I just can't imagine thechanges that you are making,
have seen, or an undertaking.
(01:28):
So um before we get started,please give our audience an
introduction, let us know alittle bit about yourself and
we'll get started.
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Sure.
Um, I'm Carol Waldman.
I'm a mom of three kids.
Actually, they're young adultsnow, um, 23, um, uh, 21 and 18.
Um, my professional backgroundis working in politics.
Um, I've spent many yearsworking at the local, um, state,
(01:59):
and federal level for electedofficials and on numerous
campaigns.
Um, and I'm deeply compass uhpassionate about neurodiversity
because my own son, Andrew,who's 23, was diagnosed on the
autism spectrum at around agefive.
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
And that's a a pretty usual, I don't know,
maybe for boys, right?
Um, age that that they sometimesget diagnosed.
Um, what have you seen in kindof the growth of diagnosis being
now have had it for many yearstill today?
(02:42):
Like, what do you see in thecommunity now?
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Well, you know, it's interesting when Andrew was
diagnosed, it was in LA, and hehad it started out when he went
to his three-year-old doctor'sappointment and he wasn't
jumping and wasn't answeringquestions.
And when he was assessed by adevelopmental pediatrician, she
says, Oh, you know, he hassignificant delays in gross
motor and fly motor skills, um,a little bit in speech, um, but
(03:11):
but no other clear diagnosis ofanything.
And so in preschool, too, he umhe he was showing signs of
playing by himself and you know,repetitive behaviors.
Ultimately, um, we had to get anaid, and then at some point
around five, yeah, into theelementary school years is when
(03:32):
they actually diagnosed him umAsperger's being on the autism
spectrum.
Um one of the things back then,too, is we didn't talk about it.
People didn't, even in theschool setting, you know, maybe
it was mentioned in the initialIEP, but after that, the word
autism wasn't in the vocabulary.
(03:55):
And all throughout these years,we didn't talk about it among
our amongst our peers andfriends.
So I felt like the journey wasso different, so lonely with all
these like therapies and socialgroups and um private coaches,
and I very isolating.
But I think today it's just I Imean, I think it people will
(04:19):
talk about it more, but I don'tknow, you know, how it is when
they're younger, but it's justneurodiversity is sort of
something people know about,whereas before no one ever used
that word.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
And how do you feel now, kind of in this era where
in this last you know, eight,six to eight months, the word
autism is now in the mind andears and kind of more than ever
before across the whole nation,whether good or bad, the word
(04:54):
autism is still there where itwas never before.
And how do you think, like, whatdo you think about that and how
we can shift and and change thatnow?
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Well, I mean, I'm glad that it is, you know, it is
talked about, however, there'sso much um lack of understanding
of what because we really don'tknow what really causes it.
And I think there's a lot ofinformation that is not
(05:29):
necessarily true.
And I think that um I just thinkthat the way they had portrayed
it as, you know, oh, we're gonnafind a cure for it.
I just think I think it's beenaround for so many years.
And I just think that well, likeagain, while I'm glad that
(05:50):
people know the term autism,what that means.
I just think that there just hasto be a better understanding and
where we should be researching,you know, more on programs
versus the cause, because umthese kids need more support in
schools, and and what alsoscaries with the the government
(06:12):
and the department of educationand and the resources that we
need at the schools, um that'swhere we need them.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
100%.
And you know, I would love tosee.
Um, I couldn't agree more thatthe education behind the word
now needs to be fueled intothose minds because that's
exactly what's missing.
And there's a quote I love touse, and that's a little bit of
knowledge turns fear intounderstanding.
(06:43):
And that's what they need.
They just need because we'rejust at like the tip of the
iceberg, we're just showing theyjust understand this like tiny
little little bit when there'sthis huge complex version of
what is to be seen.
Um, and I really, in mynon-medical, non-scientific
(07:04):
professional opinion, really inmy heart of hearts, feel like uh
the evolution of the human brainis what we're seeing.
And I think that at some point,it would be really lovely to
have this wider kind of um graceand understanding that human
(07:31):
experiences are never the same.
It's always different for everysingle person.
And I think that it's it justlike you said, we need to offer
more supports and how we cansupport these wide range of uh
neurotypes and learning types sothat we can really give access
(07:55):
to this community who has beenlocked away for better terms,
you know, um from access of somany things for so long.
And I'm just really proud of thework you're doing and and thank
goodness we have somebody withyou know good intentions behind
(08:17):
those things to help move thingsforward.
SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
Thanks.
You know, one of the um thingswe did most recently, 20 seems
like a most recently, but it'slike maybe 2022.
Andrew and I went to the Boardof San Diego Board of
Supervisors and I actually spokeon behalf of legislation that
would um require them to openthe doors uh for work and
(08:42):
training for neurodiverseemployees.
And it it unanimously passed,and it was just so great.
And that's um another area sinceAndrew's 23.
What you know, he wants to work,he wants to possibly go to law
school, he's interested inpolicy, and uh finding, you
(09:04):
know, him finding a job andfinding a workplace that
supports his needs um is just soimportant.
And so I've been exploring morein that area.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
So I love that.
And that's what we do as I thinkthat people like us, women and
moms like us, who are fueled byour kiddos' need to and want to
succeed and opportunities thatthey deserve to have in the
world.
Um, it creates so much.
(09:37):
There's there's not enough thankyous out there for moms that do
the work um to help, and andit's so lovely that he is now
advocating for himself.
I mean, um it was great to hearhim say, like, sometimes people
(09:57):
didn't listen to me.
And I was like, that's exactlywhat people need to hear,
Andrew.
That's the the world needs tohear that.
They need to hear that you didnot feel listened to, you felt
put aside and things like that.
I know that was heartbreaking.
I'm so sorry, like the not, youknow, just shine a light.
But he was so brave to say that,and then to just be like, and
(10:20):
you're like, we're like, we arelistening, we are on pins and
needles, like everyone islistening now.
And I hope he knew that and feltthat.
And um, moving forward, likeeveryone will see that and just
know that like this is a kid whosees what's going on, uh, just
like the so many of them, andaren't being aren't being
(10:43):
listened to, aren't beingrespected as they deserve to be
in the workplace.
Um, so this is gonna set somechange ahead for the community.
And I love the fact that we had,you know, people like TAC, the
from Colorado, and the kind ofoversight that he was able to
(11:05):
have of maybe the trades thatthey were missing that they now
want to get more access to haveand to teach their, you know,
teaching autistic communitytrades.
Like that's a fantastic program.
I'm just so proud of them.
So it's exciting to see all ofthese new collaborations that
(11:25):
can come about, opportunities.
But um, Andrew has a brightfuture, and I have no doubt for
him that um he'll not only goafter what he wants, but now
maybe advocate for himself inways that he never has before,
and realize that he has us as acommunity to totally back him
(11:48):
and support him and justwhatever he needs.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
So good to hear.
It is so good to hear.
And, you know, when he wasspeaking at the um on the panel,
you know, I thought about hishigh school years and how, you
know, I I remember in his junioryear, he wanted to take more AP
classes.
And and there was this like, oh,Andrew, you know, one one's
enough, you know, you couldprobably just do one.
(12:13):
And that was part of the thewhole IEP process and not
wanting to overwhelm him.
Yeah.
Um, but then at the same time,we really encourage him to play
basketball.
And he wasn't the best on theteam, but he under he was so um
dedicated and devoted that inthe senior year, um they put him
(12:35):
on the varsity basketball team.
And it was sort of theunderstanding that you would um
you would play only if they'rewinning or they're losing, but
it wouldn't really, he wouldn'treally affect the game.
And he was hesitant about that.
But I said, you know, it's good,you'll be social, you'll
practice, you'll get yourexercise.
So one night he goes out thereand they let him play and he
(12:58):
makes it three-pointer, and um,the crowd goes wild.
Like everybody starts to do thewave, the um whole ASB like
section is screaming, all thethe the parents, and everybody
just people start running downand hugging him and finding him.
And it goes on Max Preps, um,which is like a sports app that
(13:22):
a lot of people like to watch,and it goes viral.
And you know, his confidence,you know, by just including him
into this sport, this sword, andhe was just this new person on
campus, you know, and I justmade me think about like like
the highlights, right?
There were a lot of lows, andthen there's a lot of there's
(13:43):
highlights too, but that's whatyou want.
SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Oh, isn't that the truth?
Um like I've gotta collectmyself here.
It's so it's so true, you know.
Seeing DJ um a blossom in thisnew time of the Special
Olympics, and like having peopleembrace him and really just want
(14:10):
him to be a part of it, like Isee a different part of him like
evolving, and it is sowonderful, and it's every
parent's dream in this state orjourney on this, you know, and
that that happens that they'reaccepted and that people want to
(14:30):
make friends with them and theywant to make friends with
others, and it's been somethingthat hasn't been a regular thing
here for us.
And oh, it's just it it's kindof like all of the flowers that
I've planted this year.
I've never been a gardener and Ilove houseplants, but I've never
planted outside, and I can goout and see more colors than
(14:53):
I've ever seen before, and it'shappening with him too, so it's
kind of lovely, you know, thatit's yeah, it does.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
I and I think you know, the things that we get so
excited about, like as parents,um, it's the little things that
that that can be such milestonesfor us.
Um, I think with Andrew, youknow, I was always trying to
like just get get to be average,right?
But you know, we all just want,you know, we want our kids to
(15:23):
thy to thrive, but I just wantedhim to fit in.
Yeah.
Um, one of the um um topics, youknow, with culture and um that
you've you've I've heard youtalk about with Andrew, it's
interesting because our templewas really, really uh is very
great with inclusivity.
(15:45):
And we're fortunate to have umour advisor, and I think you've
met him, Craig Parks.
Oh, yeah.
He's the music person, but hewas also the teen advisor.
And fortunately, Andrew uh, youknow, took classes from him.
He was there all along the way,and Andrew got to be Andrew is
(16:05):
bar mitzfoot.
Andrew uh went to like religiousschool, a teen journey program.
He also um was on the board ofthe youth group and he was
encouraged to run for office.
He worked at the camp Craigstarted, he was a camper, then a
counselor.
(16:26):
Somebody who understands, right?
Because Craig has a a youngadult now um with special needs,
and so that made such a bigdifference, right?
And just wow, that that uhforever grateful.
And the temple still iswonderful, you know.
It's just um, you know, it'sreally very inclusive, and so
(16:52):
that was something that waswonderful for us.
SPEAKER_00 (16:54):
And how is he finding his way now in
Washington, D.C.?
Can we can we talk touch onthat?
Is that okay?
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
Or no, no, you know, so he started out in DC doing an
internship.
He worked, so there's thiscompany, and I found this on the
internet um called BroadFutures, and it's a program that
mentors young neurodiverseadults um in jobs in Washington,
(17:22):
D.C.
area.
And so he went out there and heworked, they got him an
internship at the Cormac Group,which is um a legislative and
bipartisan lobbying type firm,and he loved it.
And he would meet with like thepeople from Broad Features once
a week.
Um, and they were great.
And so that was three months,and then it ended, and now you
(17:46):
know, he's on his own trying tofind a job, and that's where
it's just you know, it could bethe climate, it's just it's just
hard to find a work.
I mean, broad features did whatthey were supposed to do, and
then now he's on his own.
Um, so it's it's it is hard.
It is hard.
He's but he's so persistent andinterviewing and networking that
(18:09):
I think, wow, if he had justbeen handed a job, he would not
be acquiring these skills.
Yeah, he's working with someonewho I know you've mentioned
Jacob um Levy, Jacob sponsoreduh summit.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
In fact, yeah, that's great.
I it's one of them all, Carol.
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
No, I found him like on LinkedIn, like nobody told me
about these people.
I'm like, okay, let's try thisout.
And you know, I communicated, Ireached out to him and
communicated.
I'm like, can you help Andrew?
He's like, I definitely.
So he has been working withAndrew on his LinkedIn and
reaching out, and he's soresourceful.
And so that's where we are.
(18:48):
We'll see.
Because I'm we're supportingAndrew, and at some point, you
know, he's also has to figureout like maybe there's a
different place to live, ormaybe he can find a job there.
But um so yeah, I think it'sstill it's unsettling for me
because I just want him to have,you know, find something a job,
and then no, you know, we justwant them to be independent.
(19:12):
Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
Well, I have a feeling we know all the right
people to talk to.
So I think that there's reallygreat things in line for for
Andrew.
I'm excited.
And he's open up in locations,it doesn't have to be DC.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
I think he just you know, I said, Do you want to
come to San Diego?
No, like I think he wants hisown city, he's really good.
Like at when he was in DC, he'slike, Oh, I tried, I joined a
pickleball league.
Well, he's never playedpickleball in his life before.
Um I love that also prior tothat.
I have to say he took a tripwith a a travel group, not
(19:51):
knowing anybody, and he went toAustralia.
I mean, he didn't go toAustralia, he's with the
Australians, but he went toEurope like a couple of summers
ago.
SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
He just he's brave, very brave.
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
And you're brave too, okay.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
I led him to go to Wisconsin, and it was sort of at
the end of COVID.
And um, well, not really then,it was the fall of 2020, and he
actually um uh was in the dorm.
And then in February that year,he actually got COVID.
And first he was exposed toCOVID, then they told him he had
(20:29):
to live in a hotel and they tookhim to a hotel, and he was there
for 14 days, and he had to stayin the hotel.
He wasn't allowed to leave theroom.
And um at that point, I'm like,okay, I'm done being brave.
But then I said, Okay, well,let's get all relatives,
friends, and we're just gonnacall him and support him.
(20:51):
And he's like, he called me,he's like, Can I order some um
did he love it?
He did, he's like, Can I ordersome items from Walmart?
You know, because I am sick, andyou know, and he had his own TV
and own bathroom.
So he actually he actually wasfine.
I mean, after he got over havingCOVID, but like of course, you
(21:13):
know.
It just made me think like I wasso worried about his mental
health, like, oh my god, likewhat do you do?
You're all the way in Wisconsin.
He's like, oh, you know, he'slike, he ordered foods, a razor,
whatever he needed.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
Like I love that.
I just love that.
I think that they're so lucky,we're so blessed that they're so
lucky not to have the whateverit is in our minds that makes us
worry or judge ourselves orthings like that.
Like I know DJ doesn't have thatpart of uh, I don't even know
(21:53):
what part of the mind that is,but I think you know what I'm
talking about.
I think it's so lovely, it'sjust like refreshing and and
beautiful, and that's why I loveto invite all of these amazing
people because so many of themjust have this innocent grace
(22:13):
and fierce, you know,persistence for life and for
just like being the best personthey can be.
And those are the kind of peopleI want to surround myself with
all the time.
I'm so sorry, I'm so emotional.
This one, Carol.
But it it is just so touching,and I'm really just really
grateful that we got to do this.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
Yeah, you know, I I have to say though, they changed
so much because when he was inelementary school or even middle
school, how would I couldn'thave told you he was gonna go
off to University of Wisconsin?
You know, I and then in highschool, even, you know, you just
don't know.
(22:54):
Um, I just knew to advocate forhim because had I not, even with
the great public school that wewere in, you know, there's still
this question, well, should hegraduate?
Should he like what's your planfor him?
Like, what?
Have to have a plan?
Of course he's gonna graduate.
But you realize you do like as aparent, you had to, and and it
(23:15):
really, you know, I have twoother kids, so I was like, oh my
God, this is like full-time plusjob.
Yeah.
But I want to empower otherparents too, because I've been
there and um, you know, I'm justso grateful the supports I've
had, but it was also hard, youknow.
It's and now I'm in this, youknow, journey of like this next
(23:40):
chapter in our life, and it'sit's hard.
And yet I I know that there'llbe great things.
I think he's gonna do greatthings, and I think I'll be able
to help others at some with thisprocess as well.
SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
Yeah, he already has.
I mean, the amount of peoplethat have already seen the
summit and watched the advocatepanel, like he already inspired
others, he's already madechanges and like changed lives.
Yeah, absolutely.
And mine, you know, like heliterally, I'm so grateful to
(24:18):
have you guys as newconnections.
And um I think it's just sospecial that we can have, and
I've said this in the past on alot of different podcasts, but I
think it's so important that wetake time to um nurture
relationships with those thatare come before us at the same
(24:40):
time, kind of that at the samejourney we're at, and the people
who will come behind us orwhatever you want to call it,
and then help them and be umable to reach your hand out to
them because it's it's sodifferent for each family, but
the the thing that is all thesame is that you only feel
(25:04):
isolated until you know that youhave this community, and then
that goes away and you just feellove from then on out.
So, and I hope that you know youfound that in your own community
with your own and with us nowhere.
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Yeah, no, I mean, you know, yeah, I still need it,
and and yeah, I I also I mean,my dream would like I'd love to
see a neurodiverse placementagency.
I would love to see so much moreout there.
I'm like, oh, can I start that?
You know, you know, how do I dothis?
And and also with my backgroundin policy, and you know, I I'm a
(25:41):
delegate and uh on theDemocratic Central Committee, so
I'm so active in politics.
I want to, you know, be up therewhen legislation or or make a
difference in legislation um aswell.
So so I'm in this, you know, andI love meeting people outside of
California too, because we thisis just great, you know, meeting
(26:05):
and and then I'd like to go moreto some of the you know
in-person type events as well.
And I love all the virtualsummits, but yeah, but
connecting is really importantbecause we can help each other,
and I just feel like we need it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
Absolutely.
Well, I invite you to return asa guest in the future to, you
know, we can dive deeper intomore policy talk and things and
and but it was so nice to get toknow you today on a personal
level and um and really talkabout you know your journey with
Andrew and just so grateful forum all the opportunities that
(26:47):
you provided for him and howstrong and and resilient and
amazing, what an amazinggentleman he he is today.
Thanks, Sarah.
I enjoyed talking to you too.
I know it's so great.
I would love to stay in touch.
Um, I'm sure that our we couldhave some really great deep
conversations about so manythings.
(27:09):
Um is there uh social media oranywhere that you uh connect
with people that you want peopleto go follow that if they have
questions that they can reachout to you on email or anything
like that?
SPEAKER_01 (27:23):
Sure.
Um I'm on LinkedIn.
Great.
Um and I'm on and I can sendthat information to you,
LinkedIn and um Facebook andInstagram.
Um working on a Facebook page ora website.
I'm working on a website rightnow because I love that.
Want to share some of the I'vebeen on a couple other podcasts,
(27:45):
so I want to share thesepodcasts too.
Um and then email.
I can give my email.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
It's I can give it now, or I can yeah, I can just
plug it into the show notes,that'd be perfect.
And then you can just and Ialready have it actually.
If you want to give me anotherone, so that's perfect.
Um, yeah, I love that.
Thank you so much.
Any last um advice or um wordsjust for the week or anything
you'd like to share?
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Uh let me see.
Um, I just I think one of thethings I just that came to my
mind was just don'tunderestimate your child or
sibling or you know, whoever isneurodiverse.
Just there there's so much thatcan be done and and that the
(28:35):
person can do.
Uh it's not the same foreverybody, but let them shoot
for the stars.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
Isn't that the truth?
And I love that little sayingtoo.
If you if you shoot for themoon, you if you don't reach the
moon, you can land in the stars,something like that, right?
Shoot for the moon.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so cute, but agreed, yes,and um especially being brave
enough to you know a let toallow your neurodiverse child to
(29:08):
try new things, to beindependent, to have some more
independent opportunities.
Um, I know it's hard and tricky,but there are wonderful groups
out there, amazing resources.
Please reach out if you're everquestioning or needing help with
any of those types of things.
Reach out to me.
And and please, if you'reinterested in in connecting with
(29:30):
Carol to um, please reach out toher and follow her as well.
Um, thank you so much.
I look forward to staying intouch, and I'm I'm excited to
see what happens um in thefuture for everyone involved.
Thanks, Sarah.
Hi, thanks for joining the SJ Child show today.
I'm so excited to have CarolWaldman here.
Uh, her son was just recently inthe 1 in 31 summit on the
advocates panel, and it's sobeautiful to see advocates find
their comfortable space andreally like find their voice and
(00:24):
speak up for themselves.
And kind of like Carol had said,just you learn something from
every single person that comeson and shares.
Um, and I'm so happy to have youon here today to get to know you
a little bit better.
And um, we miss you uh being notbeing able to be there, but
(00:45):
we're so glad that you know youjoined and um cheered everyone
on, and it means so, so much.
So thank you so much for beinghere today.
Oh, Sarah, thank you for havingme.
It's exciting, and I am thrilledto learn more about you.
I did do a little bit of, youknow, a little chat GPT, give me
(01:06):
some talking points um with MissCarol.
And so I'm really excited tohear about um more about your
advocacy and policy works andand things to that you're doing.
And I just can't imagine thechanges that you are making,
have seen, or an undertaking.
(01:28):
So um before we get started,please give our audience an
introduction, let us know alittle bit about yourself and
we'll get started.
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Sure.
Um, I'm Carol Waldman.
I'm a mom of three kids.
Actually, they're young adultsnow, um, 23, um, uh, 21 and 18.
Um, my professional backgroundis working in politics.
Um, I've spent many yearsworking at the local, um, state,
(01:59):
and federal level for electedofficials and on numerous
campaigns.
Um, and I'm deeply compass uhpassionate about neurodiversity
because my own son, Andrew,who's 23, was diagnosed on the
autism spectrum at around agefive.
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
And that's a a pretty usual, I don't know,
maybe for boys, right?
Um, age that that they sometimesget diagnosed.
Um, what have you seen in kindof the growth of diagnosis being
now have had it for many yearstill today?
(02:42):
Like, what do you see in thecommunity now?
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Well, you know, it's interesting when Andrew was
diagnosed, it was in LA, and hehad it started out when he went
to his three-year-old doctor'sappointment and he wasn't
jumping and wasn't answeringquestions.
And when he was assessed by adevelopmental pediatrician, she
says, Oh, you know, he hassignificant delays in gross
motor and fly motor skills, um,a little bit in speech, um, but
(03:11):
but no other clear diagnosis ofanything.
And so in preschool, too, he umhe he was showing signs of
playing by himself and you know,repetitive behaviors.
Ultimately, um, we had to get anaid, and then at some point
around five, yeah, into theelementary school years is when
(03:32):
they actually diagnosed him umAsperger's being on the autism
spectrum.
Um one of the things back then,too, is we didn't talk about it.
People didn't, even in theschool setting, you know, maybe
it was mentioned in the initialIEP, but after that, the word
autism wasn't in the vocabulary.
(03:55):
And all throughout these years,we didn't talk about it among
our amongst our peers andfriends.
So I felt like the journey wasso different, so lonely with all
these like therapies and socialgroups and um private coaches,
and I very isolating.
But I think today it's just I Imean, I think it people will
(04:19):
talk about it more, but I don'tknow, you know, how it is when
they're younger, but it's justneurodiversity is sort of
something people know about,whereas before no one ever used
that word.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
And how do you feel now, kind of in this era where
in this last you know, eight,six to eight months, the word
autism is now in the mind andears and kind of more than ever
before across the whole nation,whether good or bad, the word
(04:54):
autism is still there where itwas never before.
And how do you think, like, whatdo you think about that and how
we can shift and and change thatnow?
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Well, I mean, I'm glad that it is, you know, it is
talked about, however, there'sso much um lack of understanding
of what because we really don'tknow what really causes it.
And I think there's a lot ofinformation that is not
(05:29):
necessarily true.
And I think that um I just thinkthat the way they had portrayed
it as, you know, oh, we're gonnafind a cure for it.
I just think I think it's beenaround for so many years.
And I just think that well, likeagain, while I'm glad that
(05:50):
people know the term autism,what that means.
I just think that there just hasto be a better understanding and
where we should be researching,you know, more on programs
versus the cause, because umthese kids need more support in
schools, and and what alsoscaries with the the government
(06:12):
and the department of educationand and the resources that we
need at the schools, um that'swhere we need them.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
100%.
And you know, I would love tosee.
Um, I couldn't agree more thatthe education behind the word
now needs to be fueled intothose minds because that's
exactly what's missing.
And there's a quote I love touse, and that's a little bit of
knowledge turns fear intounderstanding.
(06:43):
And that's what they need.
They just need because we'rejust at like the tip of the
iceberg, we're just showing theyjust understand this like tiny
little little bit when there'sthis huge complex version of
what is to be seen.
Um, and I really, in mynon-medical, non-scientific
(07:04):
professional opinion, really inmy heart of hearts, feel like uh
the evolution of the human brainis what we're seeing.
And I think that at some point,it would be really lovely to
have this wider kind of um graceand understanding that human
(07:31):
experiences are never the same.
It's always different for everysingle person.
And I think that it's it justlike you said, we need to offer
more supports and how we cansupport these wide range of uh
neurotypes and learning types sothat we can really give access
(07:55):
to this community who has beenlocked away for better terms,
you know, um from access of somany things for so long.
And I'm just really proud of thework you're doing and and thank
goodness we have somebody withyou know good intentions behind
(08:17):
those things to help move thingsforward.
SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
Thanks.
You know, one of the um thingswe did most recently, 20 seems
like a most recently, but it'slike maybe 2022.
Andrew and I went to the Boardof San Diego Board of
Supervisors and I actually spokeon behalf of legislation that
would um require them to openthe doors uh for work and
(08:42):
training for neurodiverseemployees.
And it it unanimously passed,and it was just so great.
And that's um another area sinceAndrew's 23.
What you know, he wants to work,he wants to possibly go to law
school, he's interested inpolicy, and uh finding, you
(09:04):
know, him finding a job andfinding a workplace that
supports his needs um is just soimportant.
And so I've been exploring morein that area.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
So I love that.
And that's what we do as I thinkthat people like us, women and
moms like us, who are fueled byour kiddos' need to and want to
succeed and opportunities thatthey deserve to have in the
world.
Um, it creates so much.
(09:37):
There's there's not enough thankyous out there for moms that do
the work um to help, and andit's so lovely that he is now
advocating for himself.
I mean, um it was great to hearhim say, like, sometimes people
(09:57):
didn't listen to me.
And I was like, that's exactlywhat people need to hear,
Andrew.
That's the the world needs tohear that.
They need to hear that you didnot feel listened to, you felt
put aside and things like that.
I know that was heartbreaking.
I'm so sorry, like the not, youknow, just shine a light.
But he was so brave to say that,and then to just be like, and
(10:20):
you're like, we're like, we arelistening, we are on pins and
needles, like everyone islistening now.
And I hope he knew that and feltthat.
And um, moving forward, likeeveryone will see that and just
know that like this is a kid whosees what's going on, uh, just
like the so many of them, andaren't being aren't being
(10:43):
listened to, aren't beingrespected as they deserve to be
in the workplace.
Um, so this is gonna set somechange ahead for the community.
And I love the fact that we had,you know, people like TAC, the
from Colorado, and the kind ofoversight that he was able to
(11:05):
have of maybe the trades thatthey were missing that they now
want to get more access to haveand to teach their, you know,
teaching autistic communitytrades.
Like that's a fantastic program.
I'm just so proud of them.
So it's exciting to see all ofthese new collaborations that
(11:25):
can come about, opportunities.
But um, Andrew has a brightfuture, and I have no doubt for
him that um he'll not only goafter what he wants, but now
maybe advocate for himself inways that he never has before,
and realize that he has us as acommunity to totally back him
(11:48):
and support him and justwhatever he needs.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
So good to hear.
It is so good to hear.
And, you know, when he wasspeaking at the um on the panel,
you know, I thought about hishigh school years and how, you
know, I I remember in his junioryear, he wanted to take more AP
classes.
And and there was this like, oh,Andrew, you know, one one's
enough, you know, you couldprobably just do one.
(12:13):
And that was part of the thewhole IEP process and not
wanting to overwhelm him.
Yeah.
Um, but then at the same time,we really encourage him to play
basketball.
And he wasn't the best on theteam, but he under he was so um
dedicated and devoted that inthe senior year, um they put him
(12:35):
on the varsity basketball team.
And it was sort of theunderstanding that you would um
you would play only if they'rewinning or they're losing, but
it wouldn't really, he wouldn'treally affect the game.
And he was hesitant about that.
But I said, you know, it's good,you'll be social, you'll
practice, you'll get yourexercise.
So one night he goes out thereand they let him play and he
(12:58):
makes it three-pointer, and um,the crowd goes wild.
Like everybody starts to do thewave, the um whole ASB like
section is screaming, all thethe the parents, and everybody
just people start running downand hugging him and finding him.
And it goes on Max Preps, um,which is like a sports app that
(13:22):
a lot of people like to watch,and it goes viral.
And you know, his confidence,you know, by just including him
into this sport, this sword, andhe was just this new person on
campus, you know, and I justmade me think about like like
the highlights, right?
There were a lot of lows, andthen there's a lot of there's
(13:43):
highlights too, but that's whatyou want.
SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Oh, isn't that the truth?
Um like I've gotta collectmyself here.
It's so it's so true, you know.
Seeing DJ um a blossom in thisnew time of the Special
Olympics, and like having peopleembrace him and really just want
(14:10):
him to be a part of it, like Isee a different part of him like
evolving, and it is sowonderful, and it's every
parent's dream in this state orjourney on this, you know, and
that that happens that they'reaccepted and that people want to
(14:30):
make friends with them and theywant to make friends with
others, and it's been somethingthat hasn't been a regular thing
here for us.
And oh, it's just it it's kindof like all of the flowers that
I've planted this year.
I've never been a gardener and Ilove houseplants, but I've never
planted outside, and I can goout and see more colors than
(14:53):
I've ever seen before, and it'shappening with him too, so it's
kind of lovely, you know, thatit's yeah, it does.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
I and I think you know, the things that we get so
excited about, like as parents,um, it's the little things that
that that can be such milestonesfor us.
Um, I think with Andrew, youknow, I was always trying to
like just get get to be average,right?
But you know, we all just want,you know, we want our kids to
(15:23):
thy to thrive, but I just wantedhim to fit in.
Yeah.
Um, one of the um um topics, youknow, with culture and um that
you've you've I've heard youtalk about with Andrew, it's
interesting because our templewas really, really uh is very
great with inclusivity.
(15:45):
And we're fortunate to have umour advisor, and I think you've
met him, Craig Parks.
Oh, yeah.
He's the music person, but hewas also the teen advisor.
And fortunately, Andrew uh, youknow, took classes from him.
He was there all along the way,and Andrew got to be Andrew is
(16:05):
bar mitzfoot.
Andrew uh went to like religiousschool, a teen journey program.
He also um was on the board ofthe youth group and he was
encouraged to run for office.
He worked at the camp Craigstarted, he was a camper, then a
counselor.
(16:26):
Somebody who understands, right?
Because Craig has a a youngadult now um with special needs,
and so that made such a bigdifference, right?
And just wow, that that uhforever grateful.
And the temple still iswonderful, you know.
It's just um, you know, it'sreally very inclusive, and so
(16:52):
that was something that waswonderful for us.
SPEAKER_00 (16:54):
And how is he finding his way now in
Washington, D.C.?
Can we can we talk touch onthat?
Is that okay?
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
Or no, no, you know, so he started out in DC doing an
internship.
He worked, so there's thiscompany, and I found this on the
internet um called BroadFutures, and it's a program that
mentors young neurodiverseadults um in jobs in Washington,
(17:22):
D.C.
area.
And so he went out there and heworked, they got him an
internship at the Cormac Group,which is um a legislative and
bipartisan lobbying type firm,and he loved it.
And he would meet with like thepeople from Broad Features once
a week.
Um, and they were great.
And so that was three months,and then it ended, and now you
(17:46):
know, he's on his own trying tofind a job, and that's where
it's just you know, it could bethe climate, it's just it's just
hard to find a work.
I mean, broad features did whatthey were supposed to do, and
then now he's on his own.
Um, so it's it's it is hard.
It is hard.
He's but he's so persistent andinterviewing and networking that
(18:09):
I think, wow, if he had justbeen handed a job, he would not
be acquiring these skills.
Yeah, he's working with someonewho I know you've mentioned
Jacob um Levy, Jacob sponsoreduh summit.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
In fact, yeah, that's great.
I it's one of them all, Carol.
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
No, I found him like on LinkedIn, like nobody told me
about these people.
I'm like, okay, let's try thisout.
And you know, I communicated, Ireached out to him and
communicated.
I'm like, can you help Andrew?
He's like, I definitely.
So he has been working withAndrew on his LinkedIn and
reaching out, and he's soresourceful.
And so that's where we are.
(18:48):
We'll see.
Because I'm we're supportingAndrew, and at some point, you
know, he's also has to figureout like maybe there's a
different place to live, ormaybe he can find a job there.
But um so yeah, I think it'sstill it's unsettling for me
because I just want him to have,you know, find something a job,
and then no, you know, we justwant them to be independent.
(19:12):
Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
Well, I have a feeling we know all the right
people to talk to.
So I think that there's reallygreat things in line for for
Andrew.
I'm excited.
And he's open up in locations,it doesn't have to be DC.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
I think he just you know, I said, Do you want to
come to San Diego?
No, like I think he wants hisown city, he's really good.
Like at when he was in DC, he'slike, Oh, I tried, I joined a
pickleball league.
Well, he's never playedpickleball in his life before.
Um I love that also prior tothat.
I have to say he took a tripwith a a travel group, not
(19:51):
knowing anybody, and he went toAustralia.
I mean, he didn't go toAustralia, he's with the
Australians, but he went toEurope like a couple of summers
ago.
SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
He just he's brave, very brave.
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
And you're brave too, okay.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
I led him to go to Wisconsin, and it was sort of at
the end of COVID.
And um, well, not really then,it was the fall of 2020, and he
actually um uh was in the dorm.
And then in February that year,he actually got COVID.
And first he was exposed toCOVID, then they told him he had
(20:29):
to live in a hotel and they tookhim to a hotel, and he was there
for 14 days, and he had to stayin the hotel.
He wasn't allowed to leave theroom.
And um at that point, I'm like,okay, I'm done being brave.
But then I said, Okay, well,let's get all relatives,
friends, and we're just gonnacall him and support him.
(20:51):
And he's like, he called me,he's like, Can I order some um
did he love it?
He did, he's like, Can I ordersome items from Walmart?
You know, because I am sick, andyou know, and he had his own TV
and own bathroom.
So he actually he actually wasfine.
I mean, after he got over havingCOVID, but like of course, you
(21:13):
know.
It just made me think like I wasso worried about his mental
health, like, oh my god, likewhat do you do?
You're all the way in Wisconsin.
He's like, oh, you know, he'slike, he ordered foods, a razor,
whatever he needed.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
Like I love that.
I just love that.
I think that they're so lucky,we're so blessed that they're so
lucky not to have the whateverit is in our minds that makes us
worry or judge ourselves orthings like that.
Like I know DJ doesn't have thatpart of uh, I don't even know
(21:53):
what part of the mind that is,but I think you know what I'm
talking about.
I think it's so lovely, it'sjust like refreshing and and
beautiful, and that's why I loveto invite all of these amazing
people because so many of themjust have this innocent grace
(22:13):
and fierce, you know,persistence for life and for
just like being the best personthey can be.
And those are the kind of peopleI want to surround myself with
all the time.
I'm so sorry, I'm so emotional.
This one, Carol.
But it it is just so touching,and I'm really just really
grateful that we got to do this.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
Yeah, you know, I I have to say though, they changed
so much because when he was inelementary school or even middle
school, how would I couldn'thave told you he was gonna go
off to University of Wisconsin?
You know, I and then in highschool, even, you know, you just
don't know.
(22:54):
Um, I just knew to advocate forhim because had I not, even with
the great public school that wewere in, you know, there's still
this question, well, should hegraduate?
Should he like what's your planfor him?
Like, what?
Have to have a plan?
Of course he's gonna graduate.
But you realize you do like as aparent, you had to, and and it
(23:15):
really, you know, I have twoother kids, so I was like, oh my
God, this is like full-time plusjob.
Yeah.
But I want to empower otherparents too, because I've been
there and um, you know, I'm justso grateful the supports I've
had, but it was also hard, youknow.
It's and now I'm in this, youknow, journey of like this next
(23:40):
chapter in our life, and it'sit's hard.
And yet I I know that there'llbe great things.
I think he's gonna do greatthings, and I think I'll be able
to help others at some with thisprocess as well.
SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
Yeah, he already has.
I mean, the amount of peoplethat have already seen the
summit and watched the advocatepanel, like he already inspired
others, he's already madechanges and like changed lives.
Yeah, absolutely.
And mine, you know, like heliterally, I'm so grateful to
(24:18):
have you guys as newconnections.
And um I think it's just sospecial that we can have, and
I've said this in the past on alot of different podcasts, but I
think it's so important that wetake time to um nurture
relationships with those thatare come before us at the same
(24:40):
time, kind of that at the samejourney we're at, and the people
who will come behind us orwhatever you want to call it,
and then help them and be umable to reach your hand out to
them because it's it's sodifferent for each family, but
the the thing that is all thesame is that you only feel
(25:04):
isolated until you know that youhave this community, and then
that goes away and you just feellove from then on out.
So, and I hope that you know youfound that in your own community
with your own and with us nowhere.
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Yeah, no, I mean, you know, yeah, I still need it,
and and yeah, I I also I mean,my dream would like I'd love to
see a neurodiverse placementagency.
I would love to see so much moreout there.
I'm like, oh, can I start that?
You know, you know, how do I dothis?
And and also with my backgroundin policy, and you know, I I'm a
(25:41):
delegate and uh on theDemocratic Central Committee, so
I'm so active in politics.
I want to, you know, be up therewhen legislation or or make a
difference in legislation um aswell.
So so I'm in this, you know, andI love meeting people outside of
California too, because we thisis just great, you know, meeting
(26:05):
and and then I'd like to go moreto some of the you know
in-person type events as well.
And I love all the virtualsummits, but yeah, but
connecting is really importantbecause we can help each other,
and I just feel like we need it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
Absolutely.
Well, I invite you to return asa guest in the future to, you
know, we can dive deeper intomore policy talk and things and
and but it was so nice to get toknow you today on a personal
level and um and really talkabout you know your journey with
Andrew and just so grateful forum all the opportunities that
(26:47):
you provided for him and howstrong and and resilient and
amazing, what an amazinggentleman he he is today.
Thanks, Sarah.
I enjoyed talking to you too.
I know it's so great.
I would love to stay in touch.
Um, I'm sure that our we couldhave some really great deep
conversations about so manythings.
(27:09):
Um is there uh social media oranywhere that you uh connect
with people that you want peopleto go follow that if they have
questions that they can reachout to you on email or anything
like that?
SPEAKER_01 (27:23):
Sure.
Um I'm on LinkedIn.
Great.
Um and I'm on and I can sendthat information to you,
LinkedIn and um Facebook andInstagram.
Um working on a Facebook page ora website.
I'm working on a website rightnow because I love that.
Want to share some of the I'vebeen on a couple other podcasts,
(27:45):
so I want to share thesepodcasts too.
Um and then email.
I can give my email.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
It's I can give it now, or I can yeah, I can just
plug it into the show notes,that'd be perfect.
And then you can just and Ialready have it actually.
If you want to give me anotherone, so that's perfect.
Um, yeah, I love that.
Thank you so much.
Any last um advice or um wordsjust for the week or anything
you'd like to share?
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Uh let me see.
Um, I just I think one of thethings I just that came to my
mind was just don'tunderestimate your child or
sibling or you know, whoever isneurodiverse.
Just there there's so much thatcan be done and and that the
(28:35):
person can do.
Uh it's not the same foreverybody, but let them shoot
for the stars.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
Isn't that the truth?
And I love that little sayingtoo.
If you if you shoot for themoon, you if you don't reach the
moon, you can land in the stars,something like that, right?
Shoot for the moon.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so cute, but agreed, yes,and um especially being brave
enough to you know a let toallow your neurodiverse child to
(29:08):
try new things, to beindependent, to have some more
independent opportunities.
Um, I know it's hard and tricky,but there are wonderful groups
out there, amazing resources.
Please reach out if you're everquestioning or needing help with
any of those types of things.
Reach out to me.
And and please, if you'reinterested in in connecting with
(29:30):
Carol to um, please reach out toher and follow her as well.
Um, thank you so much.
I look forward to staying intouch, and I'm I'm excited to
see what happens um in thefuture for everyone involved.
Thanks, Sarah.
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