The legendary Keith Kunz joins us along with up and comer driver Daison Pursley

Rico and Ken welcome Keith Kunz and Daison Pursley to the studio. You can’t talk about the world of open wheel midget and sprint car racing without hearing from the legendary Keith Kunz. Keith Kunz Motorsports is the All-Time National Event Winning Team, with 9 Chili Bowl Championships and 114 Midget wins among their many accomplishments. Daison Pursley is an up and coming young driver on Keith’s team. As the 2017 USAC Micro Champ, Daison talks about his career goals and what it’s like to work alongside the best in the business.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm Jason Persley, I'm Keith Coons and this is the
skinny from the fat Heads I Wear Studios in Speedway, Indiana.
This is the skinny brought to you by Toyota, Rhino, Classified,
General Tire and Dream Giveaway. This segment of the skinny
is brought to you by General Tire. The summer is

(00:24):
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summer with General Tire. For more information, visit General Tire
dot Com. Welcome ladies and gentlemen to another edition of
the skinny. Kent Stanton Rico Elmore in the House and
then one of the best of all time and still

(01:08):
making tracks. Inside of the USACH series, we have Mr
Keith Coon's in the House and one of his young guns,
Dason Pursley, will join us as well. Looking forward to
this show as they're kicking off the one race season.
Everybody's excited. Finally, I feel like we're getting past the
pandemic stuff. At least we're all racing again, because a
year ago we were not. If you're not familiar with

(01:31):
Keith Coon's and Keith Coon's Motorsports, just to get you
up to speed a little bit, this guy and his
team have won the Chili Bowl eight times. I believe
at the end of twenty had a hundred and fourteen
midget wins inside of USAK alone and ten championships. And
that's the likes of nine racing, I mean, the best

(01:52):
of all time. And I know we're gonna talk about
that a little bit further down the road. But you've
had incredible drivers all along the a with you, some
of the superstars, Rico Abrew, Christopher Bell, Kyle Larson, Tony Stewart,
Dave Darling, j Drake, Tracy Hinz, co Wit, Brian Clawson.
I mean, the list goes on and on and on.
And young guns again, Buddy Kovoyd of course doing a

(02:14):
great job, Dason doing a great job, but you've had
some of the best come up through your your team
and just go on to see the highest highs of
this sport. And without question, if you're in the open
wheel world and you know anything about midgets and sprint cars,
you know Keith Coon's name. And if you're a parent,
you want to talk to Keith Coon's because you want

(02:35):
your kid inside of a car. It doesn't matter what
it is. But it's much easier said than done. But boy,
oh boy, congratulations on all the success. And I know
it hasn't come easily. Yeah, thanks, Um, No, it's it's
just uh, something I've done all my life, you know.
And I think if you do something long enough, you
know you have success. And I've been very fortunate to

(02:57):
have a lot of good drivers and a lot of
good connections along away and got me to where I
am today. So you kick things off here and I
can go back to I want to say it's about
two when you and your brother Rusty got your first
win with And I gotta tell this funny little story
because it hung me out. I was doing a live
ARCA show and Andy we got to talk about Andy Hillenberg,

(03:20):
and I thought it was the same Andy Hillenberg that
ran an Arca, that won the Chili Bowl. But it's
two different. I mean, one of the chances there's too
Andy Hillenberg's in racing, but two different. No, not related
at all. But you guys won the Chili Bowl with
Oklahoma Andy Hillenberg, not the one that ran ran an Arca.
But going back too, with your brother, you enjoyed some

(03:42):
success right off the bat and and I have some
information here of course, which we'll talk about all along
the way, but you saw some success there there early
on with your brother. Two is when we really took off. Um,
we got hooked up with Larry Howard and Paige Jones
and pay Age one my first use Act race for
me at Kokomo and that was in two and then

(04:05):
nine three page one Belleville for me, and then January
of ninety four won the Chili Bowl with Hillenburg. And
you know, so it was kind of a combination of
that Belleville win in ninety three and start the year
off in ninety four with with Hillenburg and won the
Chili Bowl, and that was that was what really launched everything.

(04:26):
I was just gonna say, is that kind of what
put you guys on the map? I mean, not that
you weren't on the map before, but but all of
a sudden, norbody's eyes are open. Yeah, you know. At
that point, uh, we were just two brothers. We worked
jobs and did it as a hobby, you know, and
was able to get some good drivers and got hooked
up with Page and Larry Howard, and uh, Larry really

(04:48):
taught us how to race, you know, and put his
in connection with a lot of good racing manufacturer products
and people, and surrounded ourselves with you know, Iver Sanders
from Hoosier and Corey Phillips from Advanced. You know, just
kind of got all the connections all of a sudden
and and learned how to really work on race cars

(05:10):
and stuff like that, and was able to get good,
good drivers and and got fortunate and won a couple
of big races. And it was after after the Chili
Bowl and ninety four um Gary's Rounyan called me and
wanted me to come out and help him with a
sleepy trip. And I went out there and I think

(05:31):
it was like April or something like that, and helped
him and I talked him into hiring me full time.
Came back, talked to the wife and packed up the
kids and we moved to California and that was beginning
of April May something like that where the song came from,
packed up the kids and moved. Ye. So, and at

(05:52):
that time, I mean we were, you know, if we
were just really living paycheck to paycheck and living in
a mobile home and you know, growing up in the
country and just backyard racers and had a chance to
go work on race cars for a living homes and
you know probably well ninety four, they would have been

(06:18):
about six seven years old, you know, twindows. Yeah, so,
uh yeah, it was kind of a it was a
no brainer to me. You know, it was a jumping
income is opportunity, you know of living in a in
a mobile home, you know, with wife and two kids

(06:40):
and barely make it, you know, so we uh get
a chance to go work for Zrunians. You know, we
were already had a name and everything, you know, and
moved to California. Probably the toughest thing was talking the
grandparents all in into it, you know. Yeah, oh yeah,
so you know the way we went. Um went out

(07:02):
there and work worked with him for a little bit
with Sleepy and you know, Sleepy was a little bit
past his Prime at that point, you know, and and
it just wasn't the same, you know. And I kind
of worked with him for a few months and kind
of got to a point where you know, I wasn't
we weren't clicking and things weren't happening. So I kind

(07:24):
of went to Gary and George and said, you know,
you really don't need me out here, you know, And
they were like, no, no, no, no, you know, what
do you want to do as well? You know, I'd
like to run somebody else. So they said, you got
the job, you want to hire somebody, you know. So
I was the bad guy and the whole thing. Um,
you know, from there, we we actually hired Donnie Beechler. Um,

(07:47):
you know, I knew Donnie from back here in Springfield, Illinois,
and UM, we got Donnie to come out and start
running for us, and UM, a couple of the bigger races,
we had Steve Knepper drive for US and Tommy ys
Us drove bell Ville fours, and you know, one a
bunch started winning in some races that year with Donnie Beechler,
and then at the end of the year won the

(08:08):
four crown. Was Steve Kinnepper INSERNI and stuff and um.
So at the end of ninety four, John Lawson, who
was running out there locally with Billy Boat, he approached
me and wanted me to come work for him, which
they were in Fresnol, just up the road from by Celia.
So by November, you know, John had hired me. So

(08:34):
I left Zurunians and went up there and started working
with him and Billy Boat for and Journeyans kept Beachler
and you know, went on, had a lot of success
with him. Were you left? But happened that they got
a driver that was up to speed? Yeah, they weren't.
They weren't. They weren't real thrilled with me when I left,
you know. Um, but you know I've worked with him

(08:56):
all through four. So then my first race with loss
in as go to the Chili Bowl. Of course, who
wins at Donnie Beechler in Serenia car. I'm sure they
were great. A little payback, yeah, you know, a little
carl there. So yeah, then I worked with John and
Billy and that was another explosion year for me. You know,

(09:20):
we had so much success with Billy um one thirty
something racist you know, a lot of national races and
that was. You know, when we're in California, everybody kind
of on the on the midget scene was like, well,
you know they're California or went in Western States, racist
and all that. Well, when the national races all came,
Billy want them all, well you're on the West Coast.

(09:43):
So then we came back and with one Belleville and yeah,
you know once and people still say that, yeah, oh
you know they can run all the California tracks, and well,
you know, it's still kind of true, right when you
agree with California. Did I say when the Midwest boys
come out, well we'll know where really yeah? Yeah, but
that's back then, you know, I mean it was the

(10:05):
same thing. You know, the West Coast guys there's you're
only as good as the guys you're run against. But
we beat all the national guys when they came out,
and you know, and came back to Belleville, and that
really kind of solidified it for everybody. You know that
how good Billy it really was. Um. Then you know,
we kind of finished the year off. I think we've
won thirty something races that year, and then we started

(10:27):
nineties six off at the Copper World and we were
doing a little bit of pavement out there, you know,
we were running the pavement on the West Coast and
all that, and we had a combo car, you know,
and of course you had the nine team and we
went to Phoenix and one Phoenix with Billy in a
combo car. Then Kenny Irwin and Tony Kearny and I

(10:49):
think it might have been I think it was Tony.
I think it was Tony. Yeah, yeah, because I just
watched it the other day and Tony kind of faded
and it was Kenny and Billy kind of broke away,
and Kenny had it one going into turn three and
kind of got trapped behind the lapt card and Billy
drove around him. So it's, uh, it's it's interesting, especially

(11:11):
what you know, uh, watching Chad, you know, Chad come
through and and now of course what he's doing, you know,
being a team owner, which with success, he's taking the
car owner around here and knowing how to work on
him and being a driver. You know, he's been very successful.
That's what Tony I said that he says, he says, yeah,

(11:32):
that that that kid hasn't met the wall quick enough
to realize that that doesn't feel good and that's how
That's how I ended up where I'm at you. And
in n six I drove. I started driving. I was
that was gonna be one of my questions. I was
gonna work days and in here, but I was gonna say,

(11:53):
do you realize he drove? He was Actually I started driving,
you know. I mean I've been around. I didn't know anything. Know,
it wasn't any good driving and had my own car,
and um my dad said, you know you was My
brother had been driving it and some other people, and
Dad's like, you know, we're going to Granite City, you

(12:15):
drive it. So I got in and droving, did pretty decent,
you know, or did all right? Um So I drove
like in eighties six and then part of eighty seven,
I was running St. Louis and dairy Land, and um
I crashed it at the Beaver damn Fairgrounds. I spun
out and kind of was sitting there in the middle

(12:36):
of the corner and I kind of looked and I
see a car coming and coming and coming, and I
mean just drove right in the side of me, and
and it it took the wind out of me, you know,
and I couldn't breathe for what seemed an eternity, and
I was hurt. I was hurting, you know. I didn't
go to hospital or anything. But on the way home,
my dad kind of he got me, says, I'm not
raising your kids. You're done. And that was the end. Though,

(12:59):
scared dad, that's not worth it. Yeah, I'm not gonna
I'm not gonna take the blame of this one. Yeah,
he said, I'm not raising your kids, you know. So
so from then on I was able to I was
able to get guys like Kevin Osen and Kevin Dody
and Roger Branson and some of them, guys d Well,
I mean, if you put Olsen in the car, you
have no fear, so you have no fear, no fair,

(13:19):
no fear, no sense, I mean yeah, And that's that's
kind of how I started really learning how to work
on a car, because the car was up front all
of a sudden, you know, and you can do things
and see what really understand it. Somebody was moving the
car the right way and knew what was going on
with it. Yeah, they knew what they wanted. And I
was teaching you, yea, I was teaching me as well.

(13:40):
So I was very fortunate. I had good drivers to
the feed off along the way and Learn comes along
and you and Pete Willoughby hook up and you wake
up the sleeping giant who thought they had them all
covered one two in the championship. At the end of
ninety six, John called me and said, hey, this there's
this guy over. He just wanted to start a midget team.

(14:00):
You know, he's got a car. His name is Pete Willoughby,
and you would you be interested in it? So, um
my call. Talked to Pete a little bit, and I
came back to Tera hat the hundred at the end
of and met him and kind of struck a deal
right there, and you know, said will start up. And
he had a kid driving for him. Um and I

(14:23):
can't even think a J. I can't remember his name.
He was driving for him and A J. Davis and
he got hurt somewhere on pavement and broke his neck
and didn't paralyze him, but he was he was out
for a while. And that was kind of gonna be
as kid, you know, because he came up through goat
carts and Pete was in the goat carts and um,

(14:47):
so then I came back and this was like right
before the Chili Bowl, and Jason actually came back. Jason
Leffler came back and drove for Pete at the hundred
and they run second that year. And that was Jason
was really close with my my brother Rusty because of
Larry Howard, and they had already kind of struck a

(15:11):
deal to come bring Jason back in. You know, they
knew I was coming back to work on the cars,
and Rusty lived in Springfield and he would come to
the tracks and take care of Jason, and I was
going to take care of, you know, the whole whole team.
And then, uh, with that kid being hurt going into
Chili Bowl, Pete said who we want to get for

(15:33):
the other guy? And I instantly said j Drake. And
Jay was in New Zealand racing and he says, well,
I think you can get him for the Chili Bowl.
And so I called Jay and he wasn't planning on
coming back, and I said, hey, you know this deal
that I went to, you know, we want to do
the whole national deal. Would you be interesting? So Jay

(15:55):
left his New Zealand deal right in the middle of
it and came back to Chili Bowl. I wonder if
that's when he wrecked. Uh, if that's funny, that was Yeah,
that was somewhere in the next year. Uh. Yeah, it
might have been that that year. Yeah, we were, we
were on the show, and of course Rob is talking

(16:16):
talking about and then of course he's talking about Jay
and Jays like man, you know, I don't know, and
talking about Clepper in seven. I was. I was chatting
with him and he said, he said, I remember going
to Winchester one year, he said, I think it was
around ven, he said, And the first time we'd been there,

(16:36):
he said, and I saw Keith, he said. He said,
I didn't really know him. He said, So I told
Clay said, he said, I knew he knew a lot,
he said. So I told Clay, he said, I said,
go over there and talk to that guy. He's been
here before. He's good, like see what you can get
from him. And uh and sure enough, he says, he says,
he comes back. He said he kind of got us
in the window, gave us springs and bars and kind

(16:57):
of told us where to go, he says. But the
key thing that he said was there's a bump going
into turn number one, and you gotta either turned down
underneath it or you gotta wait till you get past
the turn because if you turn the wheel and then
hit it, you're gonna flip out of the park. And
then Clay's description was and probably die a lot of

(17:19):
truth that they got the message. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So
so that's how kind of ninety seven started off. You know,
It's what Pete Willa Beebe and the owner and uh
J Drake, Jason, Jason Leffler as our drivers, you know,
and and the nine car was the team at that point.
Is that when Jason was living with Tony down there

(17:40):
is this you guys were in Columbus. Yeah, we were
in Columbia. Jason was living with Tony and I think
Jay came over and lived with Pete. That's when Tony
was talking about they are racing the the Honda fifties
in the bast Yeah. He had like a garage and
it had like two posts in and we would race
around the post on that thing. I mean, I mean, well,

(18:01):
this one was pretty big. This one that Tony was
talking about was where they had the shop lights strung
out in the backyard and when he was passing Leffler
and uh and reach over and hit the kill switch
on their bike go by him and then they're trying
to get it started back up and then kicked their
legs out drop them over. It's like, so, Dason, you've

(18:24):
been perfect on the show so far. You haven't made
a single mistake. You're doing great. Now here's your time.
Two thousand seventeen micro Champ right for U Sack. Yeah,
that was Um, I think Ports City was kind of
sanctioning and now six Hunter was sanctioned by USACH. So, um,
you know that was pretty cool to kind of pick
up that with you know, my family and my dad,

(18:45):
you know, just traveling a little bit, and UM, I
know I felt like that kind of definitely put my
name out there in the USAK when we got to
hear the USAK banquet and you know, end up being
around all these people. That was definitely pretty cool. And
I think the first time I met him was probably then.
It was probably then, I think, um, definitely then, or

(19:07):
maybe the following chili bowl after that. It was one
of those. It was that it might have been at
the banquet there because I didn't realize this a time
to have to have been with me for maybe the
first year or something. His mom posted this picture and
there was this little kid all dressed up at the
banquet and he came up to me and said, I
want to drive for you someday. And here we are

(19:27):
three years later driving And he worked for you for
a couple of years too, Is that correct? Do you
work Did you work on the crew with the Chili Bowl? No? No, no,
I thought I thought you had worked on the crew
for a couple of years before you actually drove for it.
So this is your third year, third year. So he
started driving for me in two thousand nineteen would have
been his first year. Did you win your first two

(19:49):
heat racist you said, heat racists? Yeah, Arizona. I wasn't
old enough to run it that year, the very first
year I started, I can only run power and then um,
my birthday is October twentieth, so I could on the
Web Coast Swing. And then yeah, very very first to
u sacky races at Arizona and ended up picking up those. Yeah,
so good, good success. Do you consider your Chili Ball

(20:10):
this year of success? Yeah? It was. It was honestly
really cool. You're happy with it? With with the results,
I mean, I don't know, I get it that everybody
wants to go to the top. But I mean all
things consider, yeah, I mean, you only get to do
you know, get rookie of the race one time, or
you know, you only get to try it once, and
we were able to do that. So, um, that was
definitely a good goal of mine going into the week.
But um, of course you always want to make the

(20:30):
A main and um, definitely came up a couple of
spots short in that, but you know, good efforts for sure. Yeah,
you had a good run there. I think you came
out of the B on on Tuesday night and then
ended up ninth in the A. I mean from deep
I want to say seventeenth or something like that. Yeah,
it was. There was definitely something like that. And you know,
the last couple of laps happened to you know, rub
up around the bottom. Um, but that's just you know

(20:50):
how it goes sometimes. And uh at Chili Bowl this
year was definitely different than as been years passed with
the track and you know the pandemic and everything. Yeah
yeah yeah, and then uh sucking and the sea on
Saturday and then and the beat. Yeah, we're up to
a couple of spots away. Man, we're up to eight
or so and then the yellow came out and I
had to give up a you know, a couple of

(21:10):
those spots, but um, you know, it was definitely cool
just to you know, finally turn sixteen and finally get
their race on Saturday night was pretty amazing. Stay with us,
We're gonna take a quick break. Care we have more
from the young gun. Sitting right alongside the legend Keith
Kon himself. This segment of the Skinny is brought to

(21:33):
you by Toyota once again. Welcome back to the Skinny.
This is our Toyota behind the Wheel segment, and we
couldn't have two better players than Factory Toyota. Guys here,
I guess it's safe to say Factory Toyota. Keith Coon's
once again, Dason Personley sitting alongside and one of the
development drivers for Toyota is Dason and uh, certainly you've

(21:55):
seen that path work very nicely for Christopher Bell. Scene
makes it up to the top. I think. An interesting
story which was a real big learning lesson for Toyota
was Kyle Larson, of course, and Kyle Larson coming up
through the ranks with you when you're Toyota sponsored and
a great relationship with him, and we want to talk
about that too. How that all came about? Um, when

(22:17):
when the switch happened, Because it wasn't it wasn't like
we switched to Toyota and went right to the top.
It took a little scrap and a little learning. But
for the development driver, the young gun over there, Um,
how exciting is it to to at least be on
the radar screen. It's definitely something that Um, you know,
you gotta take a lot of you know, pride in
and pleasure and for sure. So um, you know, to

(22:39):
be hooked up with Keith Coons and everyone out Toyota
is is pretty amazing. And you know, just like you said,
to kind of watch Christopher bell Um you know grow
up kind of at ports City where I'm growing up
at and it's pretty cool to you know, try to
follow his footsteps all the way to the you know
top as you know that would be the cup Cup cars. So, um,
you know that's definitely, you know, one of my goals
and I feel like I'm definitely on the way to

(23:00):
doing that. So how does that relationship happen? Keith? Who
found him? Toyota find him or did you find him? Um?
He kind of found me. He told him wanted to
drive for him. His dad came over and seen us,
and they were just wanting trying to decide what to do.
And his dad came over and seeing me and Pete

(23:22):
and I talked to us for a while, and um,
before we left Gateway, he said, that's this is what
I'm gonna do, you know? So is that an option
with you? Can? Can a dad come over and talk
to you and and sign his son up? Or do
you take up? I mean, I would think that you're
in a position now and given your limited amount of time,
because if everything that you do and then a sheer

(23:42):
number of cars that you handle, you're gonna pick the
cream of the crop. You're not just gonna say yes
to somebody, you know. And that's the question everybody that
always wants to know is how does it work with
Keith Cuon's Motorsports. Um? We we we run Keith Kuon's
Motorsports as a business, you know. Um, most people in
racing have something to fall back on, a business that

(24:06):
supports their racing. And me and Pete have been able
to do racing as they living. And it's how crazy
to think of in midget and sprint car racing that
you can do that. But um, that all kind of
came about in Pete owned the trucking company and the

(24:26):
trucking company went under and I was on the payroll.
They're working for Pete and you know, at that point
he came to me and said, hey, you know we're
going to close down the trucking company. Um. And I
was like, you know, well I can go. I'll go
talk to John and I can go somewhere and work
on race cars, you know. And He's like no, he said,
let's just race is Let's just race and see how

(24:48):
long we can survive. You know, at that time, we
had j Drake driving for us, and um, I called
all the sponsors up with the race car and you
know Earl Gerdy and John Godfrey and they all said
the they would stick with me. So we formed keeps
going some motorsports at that point, um, you know, and
we raced for a living just by hiring good guys

(25:09):
to go win races. And then eventually, you know, I
got parents that come to me and say, how do
I get my kid in your in your car? You know, well,
you know, cost money, cost money, cost money. Either a
sponsors cost money, and and that that's the thing is
you know, everybody once that's jealous out there wants to say,

(25:34):
you know rich kids, Well I would do the same
thing for mine, and every parent would, and then every
parent out there, and what those broke, what those other
guys so is their parents all helped them. Right, whether
they're running their own team or whatever, somebody's paying for it.
So whether whether you come to me and hire me

(25:58):
the run of team and and put your kid in
my car, or you're gonna spend the money yourself, it's
the same thing. I mean, I was sitting there, I
was sitting there talking upon yeah exactly. And I was
sitting there talking to Barber, you know, Brett, and we
were just talking and he guess what, he was here earlier,
and I said, you know, we're getting ready to a show.
Keith Coins one of his guys coming in and uh,

(26:19):
you know, so we're sitting there and he says, yeah,
he goes, you know, what a deal he has going on.
I said, it's a great business. But you know what,
it's a great business that he loves. I'm in the
eyeware business. Have I always loved it? No? Have you
always loved racing. No, because it's just the way it is.
It is business right, and you know, if it wasn't,

(26:40):
it'd be called a vacation, and you know, you wouldn't
have to worry about that. But at the end of
the day, Brett goes, yeah, I didn't think that was
a good deal when you know, when we were doing
our thing. He goes, Now, I got a garage full
of useless stuff and it's still you know, I still
paid the same. You know. That's the thing is I
think when when a lot of the parents that come

(27:03):
to ours are good business people and they look at
it as they got you know, three or food dollar
investment in their truck and trailer and they got to
go buy cars and motors and and what they spend
a year. And by coming to us, you know, we
get you. We can get you up to speed instantly almost.

(27:25):
You know, the learning curve what will take you five years,
we can do in a year. You know, Um, that's
a lot of money. That's a lot of a lot
of savings right there. So you can stand there and
look at it and think, you know, I can buy
them midget and I can buy this, and we can
get we gotta I gotta truck. We'll get a trailer.
We don't need all that. We're not carrying five cars.
But but whenever you walk over, if you take a

(27:47):
look at a winning program like yours, and you walk
into the shop, the first thing I asked myself is
how long is it gonna take me to catch that guy?
Because I know what the answer is. The answer is never.
I'm never catching that guy in the end. You know,
it's it's always the same teams that rown up front,
whether it's myself, the nine car Clauson Marshall, you know,

(28:09):
but you know, no matter who they bring along and develop,
they always end up going to the front. Yeah, and
we get guys. You know, there's there's little teams out
there that can come in and compete with you, um,
but not day after day after day, and and learning
how to run for championships and you know, no one
that you gotta finish racist and going from race track

(28:31):
to race track and already knowing how to talk to
these kids and tell them where to run at and
where their groove is. Winchester, Yeah exactly. I mean, you
know who doesn't go around in and want to go
a whole that's bad. So so we've you know, over
the years, we've had parents come to us, and we've

(28:52):
always hired guys to run our house car, which was
j Drake, Um, Kyle Larson, Christopher Belle, you know, and
and the whole Toyota thing kind of evolved, you know,
I mean there was there was some pretty lean years
there were you know, me and Pete only took enough
to pay our bills and everything else went back into assets,

(29:16):
buying cars and building the team and building a team,
and you know, Cole Wits dad came to us in
two thousand and eight and they were running you know,
he was just sixteen running local sprint car and Um,
I think he went to Bubby Jones and Bubby actually

(29:36):
told him that you need to go see Keith. So
they came to us and run the midget and sprint
car and Cole was sixteen that year when we won
the USAC Championship, you know, and it was Yeah, So
at the end of two thousand and eight when we
won the championship, Steve Lewis had been with Toyota I
think for three years. I think they started like in

(29:57):
two thousand five maybe, and that's when first came on
the scene, and at the end of two thousand and eight,
Steve Lewis decided he was going to quit, and I
think I think part of that was, you know, Bobby's
was kind of already tied in with Ford and they
kind of split a little bit there, and you know,

(30:17):
the magic at all kind of went away, and you know,
everybody caught up a little bit. And so at the
two at the end of two thousand and eight, Toyota
came to it and said, we want cold with and
you know, the champion running of Toyota. You know, we
can give you the Steve Lewis Dell, which was basically
they was going to supply motors for coal, was it um.

(30:40):
So we did it, and you know went out two
thousand nine and really struggled. Um you know, went from
winning six races that year too, not winning a race
at all, bare barely run the top five. You know,
it was a seventh place car all of a sudden,
you know, every night. And we did that through two

(31:02):
thousand nine and then you know, Cole moved on after that,
went to uh UM NASCAR with the Red Bull stuff.
So at the beginning of two thousand and ten, I
had Dave Darlin running the dirt and Brian Clawson running
the pavement for me, and Brian was running the pavement

(31:25):
and my stuff and then his family car on the dirt.
And again we struggled with both of those guys all
year long. Uh, never won a race and didn't Dave
was driving the ninth stuff before, right, Yeah, he had
been driving the he had already been in the nine car.
So what do you think had happened because the nine
car was was so dominant. Well even when they were

(31:47):
in when they were in the Toyota stuff, they weren't
that they weren't you know, they want a couple of
races like a phoenix and that maybe I think with
Dave Steele Um some of the big tracks, it was
something where they could get them. Really. Yeah. But but
in the beginning and the Toyota thing was all about
you know, they did they build all them motors with

(32:08):
um Larry Slutter kind of was the developer the whole thing,
and Pink but they did them all at TRD and
Slutter was kind of there um and it was all
about the big number on those things is all they
ever kind of looked at and Rick Long at Speedway.
Had been doing my Mopar sprint car stuff, and he

(32:31):
was doing all Casey Kane stuff, and he was doing
Casey's midget motors and Brad Sweet was killing everybody with
the Mopar stuff. Yeah. So in two thousand and ten,
you know, I kind of got to the point and
I kept I got to the point where I told him,
you know, I can't keep going on like this, you know,

(32:52):
and I've been asking them, you know, let Rick Long
have a motor let Rick Long have a motor. Well.
At some point through that year they got together, I
think with Gary Stanton and Rick Long, and they developed
a new head and new injection on it, and we
got the very first one going into Turkey Night and

(33:13):
with Brian and we hadn't won a race in two years,
and we went out and dominated Turkey Night. Yeah, we
went out in hot lapt and I went we got something. Yeah,
we can race now. You know when they so I was,
I was partners with six R when the whole Silver
Crown thing, you know went on, and we had Brian

(33:33):
Tyler and magourios right and uh and um man, those
engines were wild. I mean just you know, so Toyota
builds these brand new engines for Cup and then or
for the truck series truck series, and then they changed them.

(33:57):
They changed them the next year. So they had this
man massive amount of money in these engines. Well I
was able to get sponsored. We got sponsored six of them. Well,
they actually sent a couple to short Course off road
to which was Grieves. But it was so the power
band was so narrow, it was just it was just
whenever it hit, it would knocked tire off. But the

(34:18):
driveability wasn't there really for short course of you know,
with a long RPM band. But right, so they so
uh claxed and reworked those engines and clackxed and you
know he's crazy anyhow, but Clackson's like, you wouldn't believe
the insides of these and you know, as how they
so the thing of it was, so the next year

(34:39):
they came and they had to have a new engine. Well,
I mean it was Toyota went right back after him again.
That's when they start putting restrictor plates on Toyota stuff.
But and that's what they did when they kind of
built the midget motor like they used the truck head.
They had all them truck kids laying around and that's
what they used on the midget motor you know. So

(35:00):
he was in the middle of all this. Shaggy was
all Ye, Shaggy was all in the middle of it.
Still to this day, Shaggy is the guy you know
that great great friends. We don't tell many people that
I thought about having him. Try to call in today,
to be honest. It so so, you know, at at
the end of two thousand, We've won Turkey Night and

(35:22):
and then Brian was going back to run his family
car in two thousand eleven full time. So me and
Pete was like, you know, we need somebody that can
compete with Brian, and we needed to hire a new
guy for two thousand eleven. And again, you know, Toyota
were just kind of supplying Thos motors for our house
car and we were doing some rental stuff and had

(35:44):
some Messlingers and some Fontanas and um, so we were
we were at I'd been out to Paris at the
end of two thousand and ten and watched the us
EX sprint cars and Kyle was driving fre Glen Cross
and he was back there running eighth or ninth, and
it might have been Tim Clauson I was there with,

(36:05):
and I asked Dancy, Who's who is in that car
and he told me, said that he's I'll see this
this kid, he said, he's really good, you know. So
he gets out of the cars, this a little kid,
you know. Um it was like yeah, yeah. So so
we were at the Chili Bowl, you know, to start
two thousand and eleven. I don't know who I had
driving for me at that point, um, but we had

(36:29):
about five guys on our list that we wanted, kind
of trying to figure out who to get for two
thousand and eleven, and I told Pete, I said, go
over and go over and watch this kid. You know,
that's that kid I was telling me about. And so
he's in gleaning crossing those midget he goes out in
hot laps and hot laps, and Pete comes back to

(36:49):
me and goes, that's our time. You know. It was
it was strictly watching him in hot laps and that
was it. So that us The week kind of went
on and Kyle was really fast and I think he's
out in the heat race or something, and you know,
sitting there in the pits the cars, you know, that
high off the ground. It's like, you know, and he's

(37:10):
driving a crap out of this thing and and he
turns it over and I mean big time up in
the fence and everything else. And Pete comes back to
me goes, that's still our guy. So and he had
been talking to him and and you know, through the week,
and you know, finally eventually asking him said you know
him and his parents and say, you know, would you

(37:32):
like to come back and run the USACH national deal
for US, you know, for two thousand eleven. And Kyle
was like, I don't know, I want to go sprint
car racing. And you know, you listen to the dad
tell you know, and he's like, Kyle, you know who
these guys are. You know? You know, uh, but they
kind of had hopes. Kyle had had hopes and they've

(37:54):
been running some sprint car stuff and he wanted to
go the world of outlaw racing at that point. So
you know, it took him were three weeks and they
called us and said yeah, you know, and we hired
him cold. I mean, didn't bring a dime to the
table at all, you know, contrary to what everybody believes. Um.
And we kind of started the season off in in

(38:14):
I think two, we went to Tucson and he won
a couple of races and you know, started season off
with USAK and he was getting better and better, and
um we bought, uh, we bought a Silver Crown car
to kind of help him, you know. And he went
out and the first time out in a Silver Crown
car set quick time at Milwaukee, and you know, Robin

(38:34):
Miller was there, and Robin was Robin was a big
instrument I think in Kyle's career. You know, Um, I
knew Robin and he had kind of seen him and
instantly new and he was telling all the indiecar guys,
you know, you need to watch this guy held heart,
he said, he said, you better get him. Yeah, he

(38:56):
was talking about that. Kyle went out and practice there
at Milwaukee that day and and I think Robin Miller
had the whole paddock watching him, you know, and you know,
all the gannasty My call was um a good friend
of ours, and he was he was watching him, and
he had him over there on the on the on
the box and stuff, and you know, so um Toyota

(39:20):
at that point was just kind of getting involved and
you know, uh, um Lee White was the president and
he wasn't a great open wheel fan, you know, so, um,
Gary Reid was trying to feed Kyle through the NASCAR
system and took him around and introduced cheam and everywhere

(39:43):
they went, you know, somebody's like, oh, yeah, great, but
who's gonna pay for it? And uh, we went to
we went to Indie in May and I went up
there with Kyle to meet some people, and um, it
was through Spire Mother Sports. At that point, the guy says, hey,
he says, you know, we're gonna go up and meet

(40:05):
Tony George Jr. You know, he was in charge of
Diorra l at that time. So I was like, you know,
that was kind of all of a sudden. So we
went up there and thinking, okay, you know, yeah, they
want to see Kyle Larson, you know, and we really
hadn't would You could tell he was going to be good,
but nothing had really happened at that point. So we
went up and met him in the same thing. You know,
in the end, he's like, well, you know, who's gonna

(40:26):
pay for this? You know, what do you do? How
much money you got? And I was like no, you know,
well but but but but the problem is. You know,
that's what's happened to the sport and and all of
these you know, these Johnny Parsons, these A J's, these Mario's,
all these guys like that. You know, they come along
in what these promoters I mean like Agga Janey and

(40:50):
he knew how to do it. Yeah, he paid these
guys to get there, no matter what. Hey and Bobby
answer was on the Uncle Bobby who love him was
on the show. What the us I was telling us about,
you know, race and for agg and this and that.
But if you don't have a show, and you've got
a bunch of I don't know who they are, right,
And any car did miss it, and any cart missed

(41:12):
the mark by missing Kyle. They were the first ones
to miss it. And I can assure you this because
I know the inner workings of Toyota and what you're
talking about. By the time that deal was over with Kyle,
they were never going to let that happen again. We're
gonna take a quick break here. We'll be back on
the other side and tell you the final chapter of

(41:33):
Kyle larson story involvement with Toyota. So hang tight, we'll
be right back and once again, welcome back to what's
the name of this thing? Yeah, it's with Rico and
a big sign on they called the Skinny. It's absolutely
no reference to Rico or myself. Keith Coon's here on

(41:57):
the show, Dason personally also along with us and uh
in this Toyota behind the wheel segment that we were covering.
We're gonna extend it here a little bit because we
want to hear the end of the story that involved
Kyle Larson as he as he developed and came onto
your team. Obviously a huge, hugely successful driver in open
wheel racing with u Sak not much he couldn't not

(42:20):
much more, he couldn't have won, you know, I mean
along the way. But now he's wanted item for the
big team. So you've got the biggest, the biggest of
Biggs looking at him, and Ganassi ends up ends up
snagging him away. And of course the key factor there
is Ganassi with Chevrolet at the time. Yeah, you know,
and that was that was at the end of two
thousand and eleven, you know, And and David Wilson took

(42:42):
over to president of TRD and David be had a
big open wheel fan. Yeah, he was. They all kind
of I was surprised because they had this guy right
there and they're they're pulling their hand and none of
us had any contracts. Everything was a handshake, you know.
And and then Nassy stepped in and say, you know,

(43:04):
I'll take a chance on Kyle, and and uh, you know,
and then Kyle had the success in the trucks and
stuff like that, and that's when Toyota, David and Tyler
Gibbs and Jack Arden came to us. And you go
out and find it another kindle Larson so quick question,
and I've often wondered, I always I shouldn't just ask
Chip about it at some point, I guess or Kyle.

(43:26):
But I had heard that the the diversity program had
something to do with that as well. When Chip was
able to take advantage of that, Yeah, Yeah, the way
I understand it was basically, you know, Spire was kind
of trying to become Kyle's manager at that time, and
they went to Chip and and I think Chip basically said,

(43:50):
here's I don't know what it was to dollars, you know,
let's get him in some Arcus stuff and you know,
let's our budget for the year cup coming year. Well
at the same time, you know, they got Kyle into
the NASCAR Diversity program, which was the kne In East

(44:11):
stuff and basically it didn't even cost get Nasty, hardly
nothing that first year because it was all through the
NASCAR Diversity program. He run the kN In Deal and
you know, and one it on the last lap deal
at the end of the season won the championship and
that was that Max Siegel's deal. That's what I was thinking. Yeah,

(44:33):
they still have that now, you know, they have that
diversity program. And I met so I met Max Siegel.
Don't get too far off here. I met Max when
he was the president of the I and we were
at a excuse me, at a bar. I know it.
It was the first time I'd ever went to a bar.
But we were at a bar and he came up

(44:54):
to me said he eureko Elmore and like yeah, and
he says on my seagull. I'm like okay, so I
didn't know I was asking. Then he gave me his card.
I'm like, oh, okay, well that's that's cool. So but
then shortly after that he started that K and N thing,
which is really really super cool. Yeah. Yeah, so you know,

(45:17):
at that point, they came to it and said, finding
other guy, you know, and you know when we kind
of got to meet Jack Irving and Tyler Gibbs and
really meet those guys that good, good people could make
things happen. You know, Jack Irving super right. I've talked
to him, I don't know how many times along the way,
just trying to understand what Toyota was looking for in

(45:38):
drivers at the time, because I wanted to obviously try
to work my shown and I talked to you at
the time, but he had already passed the window for
for you know, they're the drivers that they were looking at.
And he said that, he said, it's part of my fault,
he said, I think we're looking at guys too young sometimes,
he said, but it's partly my fault. He said, we're
looking at kids that are thirteen years old, twelve, thirteen,
fourteen coming up through And that's what they were doing.

(45:59):
You know, for the longest time, they were looking at
real young kids because they were looking at you know,
the investment for the length of term that they're going
to get him. And kind of you know, Jack was
Jack's the guy, I mean, he watches everything that goes on.
I mean, he knows everything that's going on with kids
coming up. You know, that's a professional baseball scouting, yes,

(46:22):
you know. I mean you don't even kids, you don't
even know that he's looking at him, but he knows,
he knows who's who who and coming up through racing.
So we we actually Kyle was a big part of
us hiring Christopher was Pete went to Christopher had actually

(46:42):
raced against us UM in that twenty one car that
he was driving back then, and we were at Granite
City and was parked right next to us, and Kyle
was driving for us, and he just he run our
ass off for in Kyle's ass off in the heat, right,
you know, and you know, and he gets out of

(47:03):
the car and he looks so you know, baby faced.
He looked like Jason Myers, That's what are He reminded me,
and I knew Jason. So he reminded us as of
a young young Jason Myers. And we went I think
to uh Spoon River and he runs second to us maybe,
and that was what I knew of him, you know.
So Pete went to UM Little Rock, Arkansas the short

(47:25):
track Nationals to watch I don't know if he was
watching Kyle or watching something, and Christopher was there and
he think he was in might have been in fertile
stuff at that time, and he runs second almost every night.
And Pete called him. He said, I remember that kid
that was parked next to us. Yeah, he said that
kid's good. And Kyle was one that told him, you know,

(47:46):
told Pete to really watching. So um at the end
of that year, we kind of was like, well, let's
give him a shot at the Chili Bowl, you know.
So Pete had called him and and hired him to
run the Chili Bowl, and he made it. I think
to the b main was never anything spectacular, there was

(48:07):
nothing that just really wowed you, but there was something
there that told us. You know, everybody asks us what
you see in them guys, and you don't know what
it is. It's just there's something that just says, this
kid can do it, you know. And so again we
asked him to drive for us in two thousand and
twelve and pretty big shoes to fill, you know, Kyle Larson,

(48:30):
you know, and he just went out and exploded on
the scene, you know, won the championship in his rookie year,
and you know, Toyota was just at that point, they're
just a static you know, this kid, and that's when
they said, we don't know how we're gonna do it,
we're gonna but we're we're gonna figure out a way

(48:51):
to to do something here, you know. And it took
all year and by the end of the year they
were trying to trying to create this path, you know,
and Jack Irvin and Tyler Gibbs was the mastermind of that.
And it was basically, you know, start here Keith Coon's,
you know, we'll get you in a super late model

(49:11):
at at Joe Gibbs and then you know, or with
Kyle Bush and then you know, maybe maybe a truck
race the following year. And you know, it was it
was like a seven year plan to bring somebody up through. Well,
you know, Christopher went and did the super late Model
thing and started winning and that instantly, and you know,

(49:35):
promised him, I think it was two thousand thirteen. They
probably I think they might have promised him one race
in a truck, you know, and it led to six
races or seven races, you know, and and you know,
that's how they created the whole Toyota driver development thing
was all around Christopher Bell, you know, and they didn't
know how to do it. It was kind of always
a moving target. But the thing with Toyota is they

(50:00):
they always under promised, you know, they would never think
that they couldn't. They would always do more than what
they could ever say they would, you know. Yeah, and
it was kind of a thing you know, to you know,
you just put your trust in them, and you know,
they always did what they said they would do or
more so we've always tried to put our trust in them,

(50:23):
you know, and our drivers and and you know, and
that's how the whole thing kind of has developed over
the years. And you know, and it's it's evolved. And
you know, they've created a um uh what they call
uh performance center down there now where you know, they
bring they bring the kids in that are and do

(50:44):
media training with them. Do you know, they have a doctor,
a coach and do physical training and you know, do
a concussion test at the beginning of the year and
um you know Wigham and check their fat content. And
it's got all of our kids on They've got them,

(51:04):
all of our kids. Obviously, Kevin Olsen passed the the concussion. Yeah,
they've got all the kids on on health nutrition diets,
you know, because their big thing they've yeah, they've learned that,
you know, in these five mile races. You know, it's
it's um, it's not only physical, but it's mental at

(51:29):
the end of these races, you know, and that's all
about your health and and stuff like that. So you know,
it's it's been a given everything that's that's equal. My
limited time inside of an off road car, I mean,
I was I was just struggling to make it to
the end of the race. But but the good guys
and given everything's equal and equipment, the the guy that's

(51:49):
in a little better shape, there's one guy that's getting
tired and and he wants to go. And then there's
another guy that's not tired and he's hungry, you know,
and he's like, I'm waiting for the last five laps.
And that is their thing is you know that they've
they've learned that the mental sharpness at the end of
the five hundred mile racist makes makes a difference. You know. Um,
they're simulators down there at ther Dye. They have they

(52:12):
have the world's best simulators, you know, and they've they've
gotten all of our kids on it. Jason's been there,
you know, pretty consistently this year running the stock car stuff,
and Buddy and Kaylee and um, they've just they've really
helped all of our kids kind of give them the
opportunities to showcase their talent. And then in the end,

(52:35):
it's it's all performance based. You know. They can give
you all the opportunities in the world, but in the
end you have to get results. So another great Toyota
driver that was before the before the turn, right, Cody
swansor exactly. So it's like, you know, we we are

(52:58):
very involved with him of course to have him for
a long time, and it's just it's like, I mean
he went down and ran that that World Series of
Stock Cars or whatever it wasn't somewhere. Yeah, I went
down there and watched and I was I was absolutely
shocked at I've seen him there for one and I
mean he was competitive and run up front every night,

(53:19):
ended up winning one I think one that he won
the one and the whole thing for the pros yet
but I told him, I said, here's the deal, I said.
So he raced, he raced the the ARCA race at Iowa,
and uh when when he was done, he was. He
was all upset, you know, and I'm sorry I let

(53:41):
you down. I wouldn't blame you if you never sponsored
me coming to dude is the hardest person on himself.
And uh, I mean before he ever went out, I
put my put my arm around him and I said, listen,
here's one thing I'm gonna tell you. All right, I said,
I'm gonna tell you something. I said, go be safe
and have fun. I said, the rest of it will
work its way out. Okay, I said, you just go

(54:04):
do that and it'll help. It'll happen. So anyhow, he
goes down and he tells me, he is, I want
to go run this. What do you think? And I said, okay,
well let me see what all the deal is and
this and that. So he gets me the information. We
already had somebody running in it, but he wanted to
run it, and I want to help him. So anyhow,
I said, I said, okay, well, what's what's the deal.

(54:24):
And so he tells me to deal. I said, okay,
I'm in. I'll do it. And I said, but one rule.
He said, what's that? I said, if you don't put
a bumper on somebody a little, I said, you're done.
I'm never doing another thing with you in a stock
car again. He's like, well, you know, I really want to,
you know, raise him clean and said, I said, I said,
I didn't tell you to park them just right. Just

(54:47):
put a bumper on him, let him know you're there
or something, okay. And I think after two or three
nights he learned and he find I think he finally
did pretty end of the week, and so part of
the fun and that it's not like open wheels so much.
Let's pause for a moment here to take a quick break.
This segment of the Skinny it's brought to you by
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(55:08):
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(55:30):
dot com. Say you had a great year last year
and both Power I and in usaks as you were
making making some noise over there, grabbed your first national
win and power I last year and fifth in the points,
so solid effort there and and obviously in u Sack
didn't get a win, but you were inside of the
top five. They're a handful of times as well. So
what's the what's the goal this year? A matter of fact,

(55:51):
by the way, we have to congratulating fresh off of
win last weekend, Thank you guys, I appreciate that. But um,
you know, definitely a goal would be, you know, to
pick up that first USACK win would would definitely be something.
And um, you know, maybe about in the animated week
or a little bit after that, maybe look at the
point standings and you know, see where we are at that.
But um, you know, to get that first USACK went

(56:13):
off our chest will be you know, something that we're
gonna look forward to. And you know, I definitely think
we have a shot at it for sure. We watch
you guys grow and it's part of the fun, and
I know Keith loves it too. It's it's fun to
watch you guys gain that confidence and then start flexing
a little bit fine, you know, not not just okay,
I found my space, but I need a little bit
of that space now too, so I'm gonna go take some.

(56:33):
But after a year of racing at that level and
with the talent that you've been with, you feel great
about coming in this year. I'm the confidence high. Uh,
it definitely is. And then you know, you don't know
where you kind of rack up going into the year
besides the first race, and um, you know we were
able to click off to top five finishes at Florida,
so you know our confidence is really good after that,

(56:53):
and um, you know just kind of like you said,
the equipments there and you know there's usually no excuses there,
so it's usually up to you to you know, find
the results that you want to find. And um, you
know it's definitely kind of I guess you could say
threatening when you're racing against wind, them and stuff that
have more experience than you do being even being alive,
So um, you kind of look at that. But at
the end of the day, you guys are all grace

(57:14):
car drivers and you all want the same thing, and
um that's of course, to win. I'd bet you that
if you looked up as stats in the last races,
he ain't finished otyle the top five unless it was
a DNF, you know, And so we we ended the
season really really strong, you know, almost got him a
win that was probably one of his DNFs right on
second and last lap and got upside down trying to

(57:36):
trying to beat measurable, Yeah, kind of trying to step
What a difference in frame of mind to climb us
out of the car and think to yourself, Man, I
hope I do good tonight, versus climbing on the car
and thinking, man, I'm gonna go win this thing. You know,
I've got a shot at winning this, you know. And
that's having all the guys on. You know, we six
sixty eight different guys. You've kind of you've got Buddy

(57:57):
co Floyd and we had Canon McIntosh to kind set
the bar, and Christopher and Kyle when they would come back,
or Rico you know, you got the bar. You know.
You know, early in the year we might have been
struggling a little bit. We're bringing in Christopher or Kyle,
and all of a sudden it's like, you know, there's
nothing wrong with our stuff. You guys just gotta step
it up. This is the bar. And they all did,

(58:19):
you know, and these young kids got something to judge
off of. You know, So who have you got to
the shop? Now? Jay's there, right? Jay? Yeah? We hired
Jay back. You know, Jay after driving for me and
was gone doing all kinds of different things. I was
gonna say, let's say the last name, J Drake. Yeah,
you know, and I want to say that because in
the very beginning of your career that you're talking about,

(58:39):
J Drake was your driver and you still with you. Yeah,
I think it's probably been probably been four years now.
I hired a couple of things. Is Um, I'm not
a great driver coach. You know, I can watch the
race car and watch the race track and know what

(59:00):
to do, and I feed off of that. I can
feed off of, you know, the guy that's out in
the first heat race and see what my car is doing,
and know what to change for the next kid and
the next kid. But actually, you know, they all they
come to you sometimes and go, well, what am I
doing wrong? What do I need to do? I don't know. Yeah,
your cars, I don't know what you need to do right,

(59:20):
but you're doing something wrong. And that's exactly how I
put it to him. Sometimes, you know, I know That's
why I asked you. So we brought J in. You know,
I needed I need somebody that could relate to and
kind of be that driver coach. So that was that
was Jay's main purpose. He had a CDL. I needed
a truck driver, and then me and Pete as well.

(59:42):
As our business has grown, we needed a third person
to kind of help take some of that off of us,
you know, the you know, managing the team members and
you know, getting the trucks. If we needed something, you know,
just less things. So J probably does more than anybody

(01:00:03):
at Keith Guns Motorsports. I mean, for the people that
are listening in and aren't familiar with the size of
your operation. How many cars do you have working at
any given time, we have probably around twenty two cars
in the shop just midgets. Um, we have fifteen complete
cars at all times. Um. You know we run six
to seven, Like last weekend, I think we took thirteen

(01:00:26):
cars with us to run six. Will make sure we
have spare cars. You know. The way it works is
if we crash today, you know that kid's gonna race tomorrow.
You know, we just pull out another car. We Um,
it's easier to have the stuff already done is to
try to rebuild it and at the track, at the
track in the parking lot. So, um, you can't have

(01:00:48):
enough spares. I know, I know you need money to
run the business. But does Toyota ever come to you
and say, hey, we'd like to see you put this
guy in the car or is that your call? The
driver you're called of the time? It's our all. Yeah,
they never. I mean when you see we talked about
Jack Irming being the scout looking at guys. So Jack
doesn't come to you and say no, no, he really doesn't.

(01:01:10):
You know, Um, I think he depends on us to
kind of telling him who we're looking at, and then
then he kind of oversees that and watches them. You know,
really curious about that happened. Yeah, they just kind of
look at who's coming to us and who we're looking at,
and then judge off of that and watch the results

(01:01:34):
and performance and and that's how they decide who they
want to help and stuff like that, you know, by
by the results that they see coming up to So, Dason,
how important is it for you to be able to
go to a J. Drake and say, you know, can
you help me out with this? Or do you see
what I'm doing or I'm struggling with this, you know,
can can you help help me work around it? Is

(01:01:55):
it nice to have that guy. It's it's really nice
to have that guy. And Jay's really good at explaining
stuff to drivers and like a driver since where we
kind of understand it and um, you know exactly what
he's talking about, and um, you know, it's pretty cool
to have him at the track and you can kind
of ask anybody. Um, all the crew chiefs that kind
of drove micros and whatnot, so they kind of all knew,

(01:02:16):
you know, how the racing world works and everything. So
you can pretty much ask anybody around the pits and
they've all been in a car and kind of you know,
can tell you what you're doing wrong or what you're
doing right. How about Rico. I haven't really raised with Rico, Um,
you know, Indian a midjor week or whatnot, but um,
you know, kind of like he said, how there's two
different trailers. I've never been you know, parked drive beside

(01:02:38):
um Rico in the same trailers. So I haven't really
talked to him that much, but I did lean on
him quite a bit at a Chili Bowl this year,
So that was definitely cool to That's what I was
talking about. The best people. Yeah, absolutely know you have
a guy like that on your team. He's he's got
to keep the whole thing in an uproar on a regularlysis. Yeah,
you know, Rico has a lot of fun to be around. Um,

(01:02:59):
really real they determined, you know, just you know, not
only very talented, but man, the just he wants to
win so bad, you know, and that seems anything anything, Yeah,
you know, and and you know, hard on himself probably
you know, Harry his own worst you know, critic um,

(01:03:22):
but man, such so much talent there and you know,
one on a lot of a lot of races of
Rico and they were they were, They're exciting when he wins.
So I know you're still close with your brother. Um,
we've talked about some really cool stuff here and and
important stuff. But let's let's let's free this thing up
a little bit and have a little bit of fun,
because I know you have to have a plethora of

(01:03:44):
racing stories and some of the best ones are getting
to the races, are coming back home and we always
talk about Tony Stewart. You know, when you when he
was going to the races, his dad would fall asleep,
and but he would fall asleep behind the wheel, and
Tony would be leaning over the console, you know, steering.
Did you ever hear those stories when he was go
kart racing? Oh? Yeah, yeah, I mean dad could For Jason,

(01:04:05):
his dad could could wedge his foot against the they
call it the doghouse, transmission tunnel whatever, and and his
so the truck would stay like right on steps. Before
they had a thing called cruise cruse. So so he
was just leaning forward over the doghouse and he would
just you just steer the truck. And we we asked him,
he said, what if something bad happened, he goes, I
just nudging, he'd wake up. You know. Yeah I was.

(01:04:30):
We were coming back after the Chilia Bowl and I
was driving, had a van with a twenty four ft
enclosed trail. Boy. Yeah, I topped over a hill and
a semi kind of went by me, and next thing
you know, I'm out of control, whipping back and forth
down through the medium and turned the van upside down,
flipped it over to where the van's laying right all

(01:04:51):
the way on its top, the trailers on its side,
and my dad's hanging from the ceiling. We had a
cooler in there, so everybody was that and I had
to reach over and put my dad out the seatbelt
because he is suspended from the ceiling. At that point,
anything crazy with you got any trips to know, I
don't think, hey, on the on the road circus, you'll

(01:05:16):
you'll get them enough. He's young enough, he's got it,
he's got time to get him. And it's all that
stuff when you look back, you know, at your career,
at the camaraderie and the friendships, and you know, talking
about your employees that have been with you for so
many years, that always speaks volume of the company and
the people that they're working for. So um it's when
I look at you and your career. Matter a matter

(01:05:39):
of fact, before we came into the studio here, you said,
the first time you've been home for five weeks that
we did the shootout and then the Chili Bowl, and
I just stayed there the whole time, and then I
was home maybe a week I think when we went
to Florida. And by time I got back from Florida,
I stayed home for maybe two weeks and I had
to run down to the sawyers and built more cars,

(01:06:00):
and um, here you are twenty five years later, moving
from a mobile home and living in a mobile home,
living in exactly I get I get it. Mine park
out back right now. He's just been gone for four
weeks and I'm the same way. But I come home
and I think, you know, my wife's gonna be excited
to see me, and then she goes, when are you leaving? Yeah,
they get used to. So I've been home three weeks

(01:06:24):
this year is all I've been home. I got home
Monday night, and the same thing. My wife's like, when
you're leaving? How long are you gonna be gone? Like,
he doesn't need to go with me here. We got
grandkids now, so that's her. Yeah, yeah, she ain't leaving
the baby. So so our micro deal has been real good.

(01:06:45):
You know, we're running this week here and Dason's been
helping me find the balance on the cars, and you know,
since that's where he comes from, it's it's really I
needed somebody good again to they get the under standing
of them cars, and and they're so similar to the midgets,
you know, so I've I've adapted and and he was

(01:07:09):
a top three every race there in the last week
that we run. So I've got a lot of new
kids coming up. Gavin Michelle came and drove for me
down there at this weekend. He's gonna get to do
a little bit of midget stuff with me. Um. I
got a kid, kid from Pennsylvania, Gavin Miller is going
to start with me this week. Another kid out of Tennessee,

(01:07:30):
Blake Daniels. He's gonna run some micro stuff. And I've
even got a guy coming from New Zealand, Campbell Stewart,
who's gonna run stuff for me this summer. I see.
You know, this world is full of a law of percentages,
and there's more and more girls joining the ranks by
the day. So you know, once once we reach whatever

(01:07:53):
that magical number is for that percentage, and then I
know when we're going to stumble along. You know, amazing talent.
But I just keep waiting. I keep thinking, one of
these girls, it's really gonna gonna wake everybody up and
shoot to the front. Yeah, we've been We've had some
really good girls, you know. Um Uh. Holly Shelton was
kind of the start of our female driver development diversity

(01:08:17):
program to Toyota and she was with us for three
years and did a really good job. Um yeah, they
kind of they kind of started that whole thing through
the diversity program. And but again I think it was
a startup deal where they didn't know what exactly they
were going to do, and and they never gave Holly

(01:08:40):
the opportunities to go do some stock car stuff and
show what she could do because she was very, very talented.
And then again she was at that age where she
was twenty three or twenty four, and it's like, you know,
there's nothing we're gonna be able to complete this with her,
you know, so it was time to try somebody else,
And we tried uh, Holly Hall and you know one year,

(01:09:03):
and then they fed her some stock car stuff last year.
And and now Kaylee Bryson she came on the scene
and as getting some stock car opportunities this year. But yeah,
there's so many more girls that are running and getting
better and better. Um, you know, Jade Amphardiesian is very
very talented, probably the most talented went out there right
now at at fourteen years old. Um, So as more

(01:09:28):
and more girls come along, you know, they're getting better
and and starting to the percentages is what it is
the females versus males. You know, they're they're going to
be more and more running up front and winning. Racist.
We haven't had a chance to talk about your brother.
Another great story in its own own right, but and
so much success as well. But what were you guys

(01:09:49):
doing as kids? I mean, I mean obviously now on
the motorcycles, but what was life like? You know in
the coon Coon's house, Riding motorcycles was all we ever did,
you know, and until we got and uh um, you know,
kind of got into high school and that, and then
a couple of them had some few street rods, and
you know, we all started hanging around each other. But

(01:10:10):
eventually we all started going to midget racing, you know,
come up, going up through there, and it's just all
we've ever done. How much have you seen the cars
actually change in terms of cars set up and how
they act, how they react, you know, how how maybe
the chassis have advanced, whatever the case may be. But
how much have they changed from the nineties to today?

(01:10:31):
You know when when when you being involved in it,
you kind of look at them and you go, there,
ain't nothing's really changed. You don't know, the pickups are different.
You know, all the points are the same, this, that,
and the other. But then when you see one sitting
there that's from the nineties, You're like, wow, what a difference.
You know when you watch the races you watched, you know,
I watched the Chili Bowls from when we first won

(01:10:53):
it in ninety four with Hillenburg, and I look at
a race today and I'm like, God, they look so
slow and horrible and were sitting in the grandstands or
maybe if somebody's sitting with us, you know, we're watching
prelim knights or something a Chili Bowl. You know. Some
of the old timer guys, well, look and say, our
cars never drove off the turn like that. They just
did not have that grip. The cars are so much

(01:11:14):
more stable, you know, and you can drive them twice
as hard and they hook up. They don't want to
turn over, you know. So I mean there's that the
competitive and this is so close now. You know, there's
so many guys back then, you know, yeah, you can
you walk into Chili Bowl and you've got you know,

(01:11:37):
ten guys and I can name you, I can name
you ten the ten guys that are gonna be competitive
and being Saturday night. Now it's you know, fifty guys
that you know, you're just wondering who's gonna miss the show.
I mean I get goose bumps talking about it because
it is the most amazing thing to watch those guys
not lift, no were the other guys gonna go anticipating
what they need to do, keeping an eye on the

(01:11:58):
guy behind him that's gonna try to slide them to
do the same thing. It's, man, talk about having your
head on on. It's it's it's so tough and so hard,
and it's it's hard to stay mentally focused anymore. There.
It's it's tough deal. So what's the goal there dayson?
I mean, I know you're gonna tell me, Cup, but

(01:12:19):
but what's the goal to run up through and and
uh the next handful of years here and of course
make your run at your career. Yeah, um, you know,
like you said, definitely of um but the next handful
of years, I definitely won't try to get dabbled into
a little bit of pavement stuff. But um, main goal
this year is to, you know, try to win a
couple of us at races and and get our known

(01:12:39):
or name really known out here. Is Um, you know
that that would be the big thing, and just to
come out here and race with these guys is something
that I've I've dreamed of and um, you know, now
that we're finally doing it, it's something to be you know,
really cool about. So I can see you going the
cup you know, of course, and we've seen that path happen. Um.
I'm often surprised that people like you in the open

(01:13:00):
wheel world don't seem to mention Indy Car any thoughts
of IndyCar. Uh not really. Um, you know, we watched
the Indianapolis every year, of course, but Indy has you know,
not been something I've ever been necessarily a fan of.
Like I'm you know, I always watched it or anything,
But I don't know something that you're drawn to. Yeah,
it's not something that I've drawn to for sure. I

(01:13:21):
just really, you know, don't watch it, you know, like
on every day weekend or you know, keep up the
results or um I couldn't even know name me a
guy that races in it now, So do you find
out odd Keith, because I mean it's just open wheel
to open wheel versus open wheel too. I want to
get in a cup car, but I think a lot
of that is the connection with NASCAR. NASCAR has the
connection with Open Wheel, you know. I mean all the

(01:13:43):
way from the teams to the manufacturers. They're they're involved there,
they're accessible to to our guys, you know. And and
you know, he knows a lot of the NASCAR drivers
and his friends with him, and and you know team
members that are NASCAR team members, a lot of them
come from the Open Wheel stuff. And and you know,

(01:14:06):
we go to a midget race or Michael Racing. You know,
you go to Millbridge and all of the NASCAR crews
are there. You know, we don't have that connection with
IndyCar stuff. You know, you never see them guys, And
it's a different it's just a different world nowadays. I
think than than than than we are, um. But the

(01:14:27):
NASCAR there's such a such a connection, you know. And
that's it's just the way it is so with you
in the world that you're in and all these cars
that you mentioned that are inside of your shop and
you're adding more with the micros. We have our good
friends that Rhino Classified that that sell racing parts. Actually

(01:14:48):
Ryan Matturski, the president of Rhino Classified, started started his
career because the buddy has had a garage full of
old racing stuff and he wanted to know if he
could help him sell it. So that's what he did,
and uh and he's come out with, uh with a
business called Rhino Classifies, where they're selling used race car parts.

(01:15:09):
How important is something like that to you? I mean
you guys recycle that stuff? Do you sell it back? Off? Is?
Is that a good platform for you to, uh, to
take advantage of to to the fans out there that
might want to get into this world. We don't sell.
We sell a little bit of stuff, but honestly, we
we use our stuff up. I mean there's some of

(01:15:30):
our cars that are four or five years old, and
you know we used the the PC carbon body stuff
now and I mean there's some of that stuff seven
eight years old and repair it and um, you know
the frames can be straightened, and um, we run stuff.
We go through a lot of equipment. You know, run
that many cars and that many races and and we

(01:15:52):
get our use out of it. Door it's usually not
sellable when we're done with it. Wow. That's uh, that's
that's using one for sure. It's called economics. Getting the
most for your money. Well, we can't thank you guys
enough for taking time out, especially Keith. Your schedule is amazing.
I mean, I I the thought goes through my head.

(01:16:12):
I'm like, I'm just gonna call and ask. I don't know,
my chances are slimming none, and slim is probably out
the lunch, but I'm gonna ask. And you said you're
spooned right away and said sure, man. And I can't
thank you enough for for taking a little bit of time.
I know you've got a shot full of cards that
that would love your attention as you sit here and
uh and goof off with us a little bit. But
I can't thank you enough for coming over. Man. Yeah,

(01:16:33):
you're probably you're making me work late, right, Sorry about that.
And Jason thank you as well. Man. It's great to
have you in here, and great to see the young
face be hungry and and go chase his dreams. It's
really cool stuff. Yeah, thank you guys for having me.
It's you know, appreciate talking to anybody I can. It's
very cool to be on your show. Yeah, very well spoken,

(01:16:54):
certainly very mature, and I think that's what this industry does.
You've got to you've got to step up to the
plate and looks like you're doing a great job of that.
So best of luck here in hope you get that
first you sec national event, win, and and plenty more
to go with it as well. Again, thank you too,
Dason personally and Keith Coons himself for coming on to
this episode of the Skinning. We hope you enjoyed it.

(01:17:15):
Thanks for being with us here on the Skinny. This
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(01:17:38):
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