December 2, 2021 • 36 mins
This week the guys sit down with Impact Racing's Ben O'Connor. Get a peek on how driver safety and safety developments happen at one of racing's top safety companies
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Skinny with Riego and Kenna is a production of
I Heart Radio. I'm Ben O'Connor and this is the
Skinny from the fat Heads I Wear Studios in Speedway, Indiana.
This is the Skinny brought to you by Toyota, Rhino, Classified,
General Tire and Dream Giveaway. This segment of the Skinny
(00:24):
is brought to you by Toyota. Welcome to the Skinny
once again. Ken'stop Michael Young sitting alongside. And have a
very good friend here in the studio who spends a
lot of time here in the Indianapolis area as well.
He is the VP of sales and marketing for Impact
and I never know whether to say impact, safety, impact racing,
(00:44):
but you'll get the just of it. All said and done.
Welcome to the show. Ben O'Connor is with us. Hey,
how you doing. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Great man, Thank you very much for coming out. And uh,
we'll get a chance to pick your brain and find
out what what's coming up in the world of safety.
But as you guys des ribe yourself to fans at
home listening in what is the proper description for the company?
(01:05):
I think you know we we manufacture safet equipment for
motor sports, mostly driver safety equipment helmets, suits, shoes, and gloves,
but we also manufacture automotive safety equipment as well, restraints
and seating things like that. So so the company originally
started off by some guy named Bill Simpson, so of
course we've lost him since, very very important to our industry,
(01:29):
of course, and then it made its way to UH
Robbie Price, UH Robbie Pierce and UM and then was
eventually acquired by Sparko if I'm correcting that, But you
guys operate as though you're an independent Yeah, correct, We
operated our own entity, that's correct. So um, it's interesting
(01:49):
the story of impact racing and and impact and how
it all started. Safety is one of those innovations that
consistently when it changes, and as I'm not sure when
you started with the company, but I know when Bill
started the company and what its focus was on. It's
it's like a moving dartboard that safety is constantly evolving
(02:13):
and changing, but you never get to the finish line,
if if that makes sense. It's always it's always changing,
and that's the most difficult part of what I think
your industry is is finding that new thing. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean we like to say we reserve the right
to learn. Right, You're you're always you're always learning. You
don't know what you don't know. Uh, any time an
event happens, you know, you look at that and you
(02:34):
evaluate things and you look for ways that you can
improve on on what on what you're doing. So yeah,
you're you're right, it's constantly evolving. So let's say there's
uh an entire year in in the various forms of
motorsports and the people that you serve, and there's nothing
really that traumatic of an incident that that that you
could go, oh, there's something we can learn from that
(02:56):
is there is there something to learn from every crash,
every and that it even though it might be a
minor incident. Yeah, yeah, I would say definitely. You know,
there's always something you can learn from every every event,
every incident. It is, no matter whether you have access
to what happened and things like that. But but even
behind the scenes, you know, even without that, you're you're
still always constantly developing. And it may be something as
(03:18):
simple as maybe trying to make the equipment more comfortable. Right,
maybe it's not necessarily directly related to safety, although something
being comfortable is certainly uh related to safety in terms
of economics. If if the driver is more comfortable, he's
more focused on the task at hand, and of course,
the best way to prevent injuries to prevent an event
for ever happening, right, So, so we're always looking at
(03:39):
ways improved the comfort of of the atoms as well.
So that means lighter fabrics, maybe softer lighter fabrics for
the suits, uh, comfortable in tears, for the helmets, lighter helmets,
comfortable gloves. You've seen a transition over the years from
gloves that were more traditionally sown where the seams are
inside the glove, to now they're on the outside in
many cases. And that's all to just prevent bunching up.
(04:02):
And that's little stuff, but but it has a profound
effect on the driver and their performance. They may not
even realize it. It's subconscious, right, but if but again,
if they're not worried about if they're not fidgeting, right,
they're more focused on on the driving, and that makes
them a safer driver, and not just for them, everybody
around them too. So I'm curious, uh you guys deal
(04:23):
with f I A all the time. UM No, no,
not not as much A little bit in f I
are mostly s F. So so to get those, um,
those requirements completed, I'm kind of curious if if all
of the safety companies collaborate and work together to some degree,
or is everybody running their own path just trying to
(04:44):
advance what they can inside of their walls a bit
of both. There are certain from a from a broad
stroke perspective, there are organizations like I c M s
UH that a lot of the safety manufacturers are part
of where we'll meet at counsels maybe annually, to have
an annual council and discuss various different things. And and
(05:04):
the people involved in that that council are people from
all walks of life, you know, medical experts, manufacturers, race tracks, UH,
safety personnel from the race tracks, and and the purpose
that is to to discuss various different topics and learn
from each other in the world of safety. Um, you'll
pick up all kinds of stuff, you know, doing that.
(05:25):
But then there is also of course that you know
that independent you know, strive ourselves to to better ourselves
and and find and learn new things as well, particularly
in the area of I would say of helmets. So
so while you have this council where you may discuss
the effects of concussion, so you can learn a little
bit more from the science aspect of it. Then we
(05:46):
take that information and we'll go back and say, Okay,
how can we build a better helmet based on these
things that we learned, you know, and these from these
conferences and things like that. So so that's our job
is to build a better product. But you know, as
a council, we all learn from each other that way.
So I'm curious who comes up with the bar. Who
does sf I set the bar? I mean, do they
(06:07):
do their homework or do they go to the safety
safety companies like like yourselves, and say, we need this
product to be better than what it is now, or
we believe that if you were to construct something in
this manner, it's gonna make it better. That's gonna be
our new rating. How does that take place? How do
(06:27):
they how do they make you guys tow the line
or do you bring them ideas and nice say wow,
that's great, that's going to be the bar right there.
Typically it's more, you know, we have to the line.
Right Typically they're setting the standards in most cases, there
is typically feedback periods for certain things, particularly look at
SNELL on the helmet side. They'll announce propose changes, and
(06:49):
then then they'll take feedback from the manufacturers based on
that saying, hey, this is this is Yeah, maybe is
cost prohibitive you know, or something like that, or no,
here's why we feel that that this won't work and
it's not actually making it safeter because maybe we're making
this thing safer, but it's going to have a downside
effect in another area. But for the most part, you
(07:09):
take s f I, SNELL f I. They set the
standards and then the manufacturers meet meet the standards, and
I'm sorry, it is a pricey it is a pricey stamp, right,
I mean to get s f I UM certified for
your products. I remember Bill back in the day battling
with those guys to some degree over some of the
hardware and the stuff that that he felt was sufficient
(07:32):
but had not gone through the s f I process.
But to go through the s f I process really
raised the price of everything that he was he was
selling across the board. So I guess what I'm trying
to relate to the fans at home is this is
no easy task that you guys have to get through. Yeah, yeah,
and it's not. And the challenge isn't so much that
(07:52):
any one thing isn't very expensive. It's the thousands of
things that that, of course you have to get through
the standard. So like a Hans device, there's a number
of different items on that device that has to be certified, right,
I mean from the clips to the straps to the
device itself. I mean there's a you think of it as, oh,
(08:13):
that's a Hans device one piece, but it's not really
broken down that way, is it. Yeah, no, exactly. There's
many things that they test. So again you take you
look at a helmet for example, when when you're a
helmet testing, we don't just send a helmet, so multiple helmets, right,
seven eight helmets, and because they need to do a
wide variety of different testing on the helmets, not just
(08:34):
impact resistance, right, It's it's you know, fire resistance of
the interior. It's how strong the anchors are in the
helmet for the FHR so they don't pull out of
the helmet. Uh, it's you know, shield performance, It's it's
all it's a plethora of different things. Right. So so
when you look at that. You know, from a manufactured perspective,
we have to build multiple helmets to send them. Of
(08:55):
course that takes a little bit from production right when
we're doing that. Now that's just you know, one style
of helmet. Now you've got several different styles of helmets
that you have to go through. And it's not an
expensive process. It it is very expensive that testing processes. Um.
So yeah, I've always found it fascinating the safety restraint.
How it's been basically the same since the very beginning,
(09:16):
but you guys have evolved the safety restraint and it's
interesting something that you look at and say, oh, how
can that be any better? Right, You've made it better.
It's fascinating that you picked up on that. As I
tell people that all the time, it's from its basic element.
It's probably the original piece of safety equipment. And you
look back at motorsports, you know, in in other than
(09:39):
maybe the helmets, right, Um, but it's it's probably one
of the most simplistic but yet most complex in terms
of everything that goes into it and how it interacts
with with the human body, you know, the biomechanics of it,
and that's those are the things that that we're always
learning and looking to improve. You know, ten years ago,
(09:59):
nobody would dream of using a two intra straint motorsports, right.
It was unheard of. People are scared to death that
they weren't strong enough. That you just you had to
have that. And you don't know for sure where that
came from, but can only assume that that goes back
to people. At some point someone took a set out
of a piece of military equipment said hey, we could
use these for motorsports, just to be really great, right,
(10:20):
And it was done for the strength the textiles would
advanced so much and strengths not even an issue. We
contested the very very highest standards of requirements by by
s f I f I whoever, and meet it with
the two inches straight no problem, typically to the point
where the hardware user will fail before right to strap this.
But but what we've learned is the importance of you
(10:42):
know where the restraint sits in your in your hip right,
how it sits down that hip pocket, so that you
can get it tighter and and prevent things like a
pelvic Tilton Afford event, right, which creates which you can
get back injuries from. So things like that and how
that affects and how they sit on f hrs. F
HRS changed a lot of that as well. Uh, you
wanted to be narrow, so they sit better in the
(11:03):
FHR device, but it also keeps it closer to the neck,
which which helps prevent stern of injuries because you're keeping
things closer center. In how belts are mounted, angles like
that in whether you know you're going for your typical
five point to six point Ken and Robert can definitely
test to the you know, the advantages of going to
a six point restrain over five point, right, Robert having
(11:26):
experienced an injury from a five point restraint um in
the different ways that that they're mounted. So yeah, it's
there's a lot that goes interstrange. It's it's pretty fascinating.
And then just the adjusters and you know where they
fasten it all out. Ben O'Connor is with us sees
a wealth of information to give you a look at
what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to
safety and the development of for the products that we
(11:48):
all use here on the motorsports industry. We're gonna take
a quick breakare and we'll be right back on the
other side. This segment of the Skinny. It's brought to
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at dream giveaway dot com. Welcome back to the Skinny.
We have been O'Connor with us here, vice president of
sales and Marketing for Impact, and UH some great insight
(12:32):
behind what it takes to get the products approved that
they sell to us to make sure that they are
to the proper standard. And of course it's a it's
a wide variety of product and a wide variety of
standards if you don't necessarily need some of those certifications. UH.
As we talked to you and you were mentioning the
shoulder straps, as they've gone back to the two inch
(12:54):
and they lay in lay in the channel now and
as you mentioned, very very strong, UH, We've been in
a couple of six suations. You you mentioned my son Robert,
and we just had a situation even a little bit
earlier this year where I was able to watch courtesy
of an onboard came or something. I'll give you a car.
We can use this in the video portion of the show.
But Uh, he went over a big table top in
(13:16):
the UTV, landed flat, overshot at landed flat, and when
he landed flat, a number of things happened, uh simultaneously
that put him in a really bad situation. And he
had done everything properly in terms of getting in the car.
He has the latest equipment courtesy of you guys, and uh,
things were as tight and as good as proper as
(13:39):
they could possibly be whenever he left. But when he landed,
the compression the cushion in the seat compressed, his spine
compressed to some degree. Whenever those two things happened, the
shoulder belts immediately became loose. Now, I mean we're talking
a couple of inches easy, right, if not more. And
(14:01):
the steering wheel. When he is sitting in the car
and the steering wheel is here, he can move his
head about halfway to that steering wheel. But during this process,
his face hit the steering wheel hard enough that it
popped the face mask back open. And it was quite
I mean, and he is here wearing a head and
neck for straint device, all the stuff, he had all
(14:23):
the proper stuff on, but it was absolutely mind boggling
to see how much the body compresses. I know what
conversely stretches. You know, when people are in a barrel
roll or flipping. You know how much does the human
neck stretches its inches? Correct? Yeah, yeah, so you look
at you know, FHR device is a really good example, right,
and the purposes is to prevent a basslar skull fracture.
(14:46):
Basically needs written skull separates from the neck. But but
your head can move stretch from your neck an amazing
amount before that's really an issue. So these devices are
really just a limit that very extreme motion to prevent
that type of injury. Uh. It's it's interesting that you
say what you said, because we've seen footage over and
(15:06):
over similar things where a driver's helmet will will hit
a doghouse that's maybe you know, elbow level over thirteen
inches and then getting back in the car and replica
and can't move more than six inches no matter how
hard they try. So it is fascinating how much the
human body moves. One of the things that we stress
(15:27):
a lot, and it's this isn't direct related to a
specific product, but when you're laying out your car, the
importance of making sure that there aren't things in the
way that that you could hit because your body moves
so much. Um, you know. One of the things that
we've seen is things like battery cut off switches and
things like that where people's knees getting you know, injured
(15:48):
because they'll hit a switch on the dash or something
you don't think about because you really do move around
a lot in an event. It's it's pretty fascinating. I
crashed a pro buggy that is probably around two thousand
fourteen or team somewhere in there. Uh, and didn't flip.
Just two of us got together mid air, landed sideways. Uh.
It was. It was. It was a rough moment, but
(16:08):
could have been a matter of fact, I thought it
was gonna be way, way worse. But when I got
out of that car, I felt like, let me beat
the hell out of me with a pipe. I had
a big gouge out of my shin my elbows were
beat up, my shins were beat up. I mean, like
you say, I mean, I felt like I had hit
every device inside of that car. Um. It's it's pretty crazy,
um to think about all the all the things that
(16:31):
that the body does hit inside of one of those things.
I mean, I ended up with elbow pads and and
shin guards, you know, just to go racing again, which
a lot of some of the guys do, some of
the guys don't. But yeah, it's it's pretty amazing how
much we we move around inside of these things, despite
doing everything as best we know. Now. Yeah, it's why,
you know, containment such an important thing. We talk a
(16:51):
lot about containment, you know, and and keeping the body
contained in that So you'll see a NASCAR and other
forms of motorsports now where they're really they're having poured seats,
you know, they have the halos around them. I mean,
they're really in a cocoon. And that really is the
limit those types of motions, those those things that can happen.
But you know, even everybody's everyday race car, even if
(17:11):
they don't have the funds to do that, you know,
it's just take some time and look around the vehicle
and you're set up and look at things that may
become problematic. Pad stuff that you wouldn't normally think about. Padding.
Everybody thinks about padding, you know, the roll cage and
things around the helmet, But what about your legs, your knees.
Just just like you said, your shins get banged up
because they're hitting it underneath of the dash. Things you
(17:32):
wouldn't even think about, you know, but when you're flipping
upside down in a bearable, your extremities are flopping around everywhere, right,
So yeah, you gotta you gotta think about that stuff.
Is there a near perfect safety device? You know what?
I would say that that that's a pretty open ended question.
But if you had to pick, when I said, the
(17:53):
FHR is pretty damn good, you know that that probably
original haunts design. You know, that concept really is responsible
for saving a lot of lives. Um uh there there
are certainly other things that were groundbreaking the industry that
are that are right up there, But I don't you know, again,
it goes back to what we said about nothing's perfect.
(18:15):
You're always evolving, you can always learn, you can always
change things. But uh that that's pretty darn good. Uh
Uh suits. You know that the driver's suits, you know,
they've gotten to be pretty darn good. But again, you
can't have too much protection in terms of time, you know,
which is what you're which is what you're looking for
(18:35):
in a in a suit? Right. You talked about the
gloves at the top of the show and taking the
scenes from the inside to the outside. What was the
the the revelation that someone thought, oh, let's do it
on the What what caused that development to happen? You know,
I wish, I wish I could say we did, but
we didn't. That wasn't one of those things that we
came up with. What we certainly understood the reasoning for
(18:57):
it when we saw it. It was one of those
oh course, you know. Well, I think what happened is
is one of the things. Gloves are sewn inside out.
That's how you naturally, it's how you make them. So
I think would probably happen someone at some point said, Wow,
this feels really good without having all that stuff inside.
(19:17):
But originally it looked really odd, It looked unfinished, It
didn't write people. You tend to look at it, Oh
that's not very good looking. When now it's becoming standard
now it's cool. Right now you see and it's like, wow,
that's really cool. You've got external stategic glove. That's awesome. Right,
But there's a science behind it too, right, it has
a practical purpose because it does it doesn't bunch up
on the fingers as much. You know, it's like you'll
see a silicon and boast. Fingers and palms now are
(19:40):
become pretty pretty standard instead of leather, and that's just
for extra grip and and much thinner. So you have
that better tactle feel of the steering well write better
better connection between driver and vehicle. So so again those
are the kind of things that are you wouldn't typically
think of in terms of direct safety, but certainly having
a better grip on the steroid, better feeling the stream
(20:01):
will is going to make a better driver. Again, you
better focus at what you're doing. So I'm blown away.
I mean, the one thing that I think all the
fans can see on a regular basis is how the
seat development has progressed. I mean you see that in
cup any car. You don't see it because as you mentioned,
the seats are poured. The guys literally sit down in
in a solution and it and the seat is molded
(20:22):
around them. But you never really get a chance to
see that. I do know, and talking to some of
the some of the doctors there and emergency personnel with IndyCar,
how things have gotten better. The halo around their head
and the padding to keep you know, to keep their
head from being in for lack of a better description
of paint shaker if you will. Um. But as you
take a look at the drivers in NASCAR, now their
(20:44):
heads are almost almost wedged into that seat. You try
to stop that motion. So if they do barrel roll
the big run. You know, if you're over here and
you've got some gap that big run, whenever you hit
it's tough. But when you take it all away, uh,
now your head doesn't have a chance to move around
and kind of stabilize your eyes, if you will. I
(21:05):
mean it, it's you have the minor vibrations inside, which
which affects your vision. It's it's pretty cool to see
how far they've come to tackle both ends of that, right, right, Yeah,
of course you know that situation where they're really tight
like that. Again, it's about containment in limiting body motion, right,
But that particular scenario, don't know if it's really tight
like that too. They could be really detrimental safety have
(21:27):
a been drive shaft exactly. I mean it would be
so bad, right, terrible, right, So, but but the offset
or but the benefit you know far outways that that possibility.
But then you look at different forms of motorsports, right,
and there's no one size fits all solution. Right, Poured
containment eye containment seats don't work well. And in certain
(21:49):
forms of support, like like off road, you know, they
actually need that little bit of motion, need to be
able to move around a little bit more so than
you would in a situation like that because the vehicles
transmitting so much energy to the driver. Right, that would
be a scenario where you know, the halos are becoming
somewhat popular in off road, but you have to be
really careful with that too, because if you get a
(22:10):
strong side to side motion, you can literally bounce off
the halo and get concussed. Because it's not just the
sharp impacts that cost concussion, it's really the brain moving
inside the skull. You know, everybody's from there, we're shaking
baby syndrome. Well, adults can get that too, right, if
your head is shaking around, even if it's not hitting anything,
you can still get concussed. So so you have to
(22:30):
look at those. You know different things like that. Every
vehicle is different, every form of motorsports different. You know
something that they don't use in any other form of
motorsport that's pretty popular in off road is you know,
a suspension seat. And then there's certain scenarios in a
pure g out situation, you can't beat a proper suspension seat.
I mean you take force for examples, reduction energy. So
(22:53):
in terms of preventing spinal injuries and that pure g
out scenari there's there's nothing better. If you have a
hard shell seat in you the frame bottoms on a
on a on a dirt or whatever. Your body absorbs
all that energy. Whatever the cushion is is going to
take that out. But that's it and the body has
to take all that other energy. Now, there are other
advantages in the heart shall see people argue in terms
(23:14):
of keeping the spinal line properly in an event, like
we talked about the containment right, things like that and
stress due to to bouncing. There's an effect that's known
as a like a double hit and a spend seat
where you where you compressed. You feel that when you
come back up, you hit the restraints and you feel that,
so you're you're kind of according you know, they're an
(23:35):
accordion effect right in the body, and and over a
long haul that that can wear on a driver a
little bit. So you're seeing a lot of drivers now
switch to more of a heart shell seat for that reason.
But you have to understand there is a little bit
there is that outset chance that that you could, you know,
have a spinal energy res result of compression in that
that one scenario of the pure gy out scenario. So
(23:57):
so those are kind of differences that you see. So
spending some time here with Ben O'Connor giving us a
good look at what they look at over the different
forms of our different can you can you just disciplines?
Can you kick me? Michael? Apparently the needle is stuff disciplines,
different disciplines of other sports. So it goes and no,
(24:21):
it's not that early in the morning, so we'll take
a quick break here and we'll be back on the
other side. This segment of the skinny has been brought
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you at Rhino dot Co. Welcome back to the Skinny.
We have been O'Connor here from impact and giving us
some really great behind the behind the closed doors if
you will look at what they deal with on a
daily basis for safety to try and keep our drivers
as and crew members as safe as absolutely possible in
(25:47):
this sport that we love. I've got to think that
when you're watching a racing event, you're looking at it
completely different than most of the people. That that is
so true because you do everything that you see, you know,
every event, anything that happens on track. You're looking at
so many different things. And then when you hear about
(26:08):
rule changes, you know the same thing. You know, we
look at things, I I believe differently than a lot
of people do because we understand the cause and effect
of a lot of things. Right. So sometimes you'll see
sanction bidies will make a rule change. It's like, Okay,
that's great, you're you're you're preventing this, but you're creating
another problem, right. But yeah, when you're watching a race,
(26:29):
you're seeing things and and even little stuff you're like,
oh yeah, that that probably hurt. That was not to
get too far into the weeds. But the way that
at least the Indy cars are made, they're made to
dissipate the energy and to break apart the safer barrier
made to absorb energy. What is the goal for the
(26:52):
driver themselves to keep them as stationary as humanly possible.
Because you talked about the brain jostling around. Should the
body have a little bit of GiB to help it
absorb the internals? Does that make sense? What is the
goal for the drivers to keep a stationary as possible?
And I know as I hit the microphone there, what
(27:12):
is the ultimate goal? Yeah, typically that that's really the goal.
You want them to stay as stationary as possible because
you always have there's always an accordion effect with any event.
And I'll go back to concussions because it's something we
can relate to. Is you know, if your helmet hits something,
it stops, your skull moves, it hits the liner of
the helmet, your brain moves, and it hits the skull.
(27:33):
So you have this cascade of events. You really want
to limit those multiple you know, hits like that and
it goes for a forward event in terms of restraints
and things like that, which is why you want to
stay you know, relatively relatively tight. Now that said, you know,
restraints do stretch and that does help slow down that
motion as well, but you don't want them so loose
(27:55):
that you slam against the restraint, right because now you're
you're gonna get injuries from from that. So you want
to be tight, unim as tight as you can in
the natural stretch of the material of the webbing is
really gonna help slow that motion down. It's kind of
like what they do in terms of energy absorption in
the in the chas Seas and things like that, and
Indy cars as you mentioned, NASCAR of course been doing
(28:15):
that for years, and of course the O. E. M
has been doing it, you know, forever. So I find
it fascinating With the helmet, Is it the gold and
helmets are constantly evolving and changing with materials with weight.
Is the head supposed to be as tight as humanly
possible inside the helmet? What is the goal of the padding,
the material it's made of, the ultimate goal for the helmet,
(28:38):
for the driver and the safety of the head. Yeah,
we'd like to see a tight helmet. Yeah, there's some
drivers though Again it gets back to that comfort thing.
If it if it's painful, obviously it's too tight and
it's gonna distract from the driving and you're creating another situation.
But in terms of purely from a concussion standpoint or
head injury stamp, I shouldn't say concussions many different forms,
(28:59):
but yeah, you want to limit that motion again to
eliminate that that cascading effect that I talked about. You
want to wear a pretty darn tight helmet, you know,
to the point now where it's hurting that. You know,
the tighter, tighter, the better. Who does the material development
for you? Do you? Is that an in house thing
where you're constantly looking at different types of plastics, different
types of materials for the for the suits, for the restraints.
(29:21):
How does that work? So so it's a collaboration between
us and our vendor partners, particularly on the suit fabric side,
because we don't mail our own fabrics, right, but but
we do work with a couple uh manufacturers of the
of the fabrics that will come to us, you know,
and they're constantly evolving as well, say hey we've got
this new fabric slider breeze better, or the the TPP
(29:42):
performance of the fire performances you know, increased over x. Right. Um,
so we're looking at that helmets somewhat similar, although the
helmet development side, least in our case, because we do
all that in house, I mean manufacture right here in Indianapolis.
You know, a lot of like the layup of the
shell and all that in the mixture of what uh
(30:04):
what fabrics or materials are used that that's all developed
by us, you know, that's that's on us to figure out. Okay,
we need a little bit of this this you know
material here, followed by that and a layer of that,
multiple layers maybe notable layers, not throughout the helmet. Maybe
it's right so that that all comes comes back on us.
But we also depend on our our vendor partners there
(30:25):
too to come up with you know, new things, particularly
like the liners themselves. You know, hey, we've got a better,
you know, better way manufacturing this so that it's more consistent.
Maybe something like that. Right, is there is there a
place that any driver can go online? Um? Quite possibly
your website. I don't know, but you mentioned it before.
(30:47):
And I do know that when we set our car up,
my son is pretty tall at six four, so typically
does not fit in the normal seat. And the bars
the where the straps go on or need to be adjusted,
so you know, for example, the shoulder belts. I mean,
if he said, in any normal car, they would go
up and around his shoulder be pulling down compressing instead
(31:08):
of more pulling back. And I know there's a there's
a preferred angle of that belt. It's not straight across,
there's a small angle there, and then you would already
mentioned that where the hip belt should go. Is there
someplace where mom and pop can figure out exactly how
they should be strapping in their kids, because I feel
like it's the most incorrect thing done on a regular basis, Yeah,
(31:31):
just because of lack of knowledge more. Yeah, yeah, it is.
It's an educational process for sure. Um. You know, on
our website we do have uh different very different diagrams
or catalog also show proper mounting and the differences between
say three inch and two inch and things like that,
and frankly programs like this. You know, I've done several
of these over the last few years where we're evangelizing
(31:55):
the benefits of two inch or straints and and in
other things like cam walks in off road and things
like that which they used to do. Right. So, uh,
it is an educational process for sure. And you're right,
a lot of people just they just don't know, you know,
so since I have to take the message to them.
You you mentioned camlocks of course, um, the rotary style
(32:16):
which we do use an off road now and and
primarily because by your advice. Now, the rules in the
series that we were in before wouldn't allow it, but
we have been able to sense change over to that.
But as we look at the progression of safety products,
I think the phone has come a long ways. The
progressive foam, as it gets denser, as the head is
moving back and forth in the containment seats, the camlocks,
(32:38):
the head restraint devices, the belts from three inch to
two inch. What what are you guys working on now?
What's is there a is there a big thing around
the corner or is everything just baby steps getting getting better?
The industry has come so far it really is more
now it's baby steps. Really, You're you're just looking for
(32:58):
that little improvement here and there. You know. We're looking
at things like like the adjusters on their strengths and
making sure they're easy to use so they're easy to tighten,
to get the driver tighter in the in the cockpit
and things like that. A lot of things related to
comfort again, right, it's one thing to be safe, you
also have to be comfortable too, So things like that.
I can't say there's any aha things in the horizon
(33:22):
that way, you know, in terms of that um they
would just be improvements on existing designs and concepts really
that I know of. Uh So, so if there is
one out there, it's not gonna be from us. Unfortunately,
somebody's got something other better mousetrap for something, you know,
it's we'll see. But uh I think a lot of
us just incremental all of this. How are things tested
in house? Do you take them out of house? Where
(33:43):
where do you test? If you have an AHA moment?
If you will, how do you test the aha? So
so there's a couple of different things that depends on
what it is. Helmuts, we we test right in house.
We as we call drop helmets and we literally drop
helmet on an anivil in different shape anvils and things
like that, and you measure the energy forces. So that
stuff's done in house, right, So, and we have we've
(34:06):
learned a lot, you know, doing that over the years.
You'll find some improvements that way, restraints or tested through
s f I s f I laboratories. They're gonna play
out there in Power, California. Uh that they do stuff.
And then of course SNELL for for helmets right and snow,
they'll they'll offer all of them, offer additional service, not
just testing for certification, but you can send R and
(34:27):
D samples right to have testing done that way and
then give your feedback that way, so you learn that way. Yeah,
so because the bill to do all the testing in house,
it would be be pretty expensive to bill to do that.
Ben O'Connor here with Impact, vice president of sales and Marketing.
He will be at the p r I show if
you have a chance to get there. That will happen
(34:48):
at the beginning of December. Make sure you stop by
and talk to him. A wonderful gentleman, as you can tell,
just full of information to help you out and whatever
your case may be, one way or the other, and
we'll gladly spend some time with you. A wonderful company
with wonderful product. They've been in the game for a
long long time, extremely knowledgeable people. We appreciate you taking
(35:10):
the time. I know you're just across town here, not
too far away, but still a very busy man and
uh back and forth the Phoenix. So I'm glad we
got you while you were here in Indy. Yeah, thanks again,
thanks for having me. Love it. Yeah, pleasure for sure. Michael,
Thanks buddy, Carl, Thanks as always my friend. Matter of
fact is this Carl's final shows. Could be Carl's final show.
(35:30):
We might try to work something out here. Official crash dummy,
crash test dummy Carl. So he's done a wonderful job
if it is his final show with us. Thanks man,
You've been awesome to work with and you've given us
a great product, so we certainly appreciate it. I hope
you enjoyed the show here. I'm kin Stout. Thanks for
watching the Skinny. Thanks for being with us here on
the Skinny. This episode has been brought to you by Toyota,
(35:53):
Rhino Classifies, Dream Giveaway and General Tire for the latest
and sunglasses, optical frames, accessories and apparel. Be sure to
check out bathheads dot com. That's bath Heads with a Z.
Production facilities provided by Fatheads I Wear Studios. All rights reserved.
The Skinny with Rico and Kenna is a production of
(36:16):
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
The Skinny with Riego and Kenna is a production of
I Heart Radio. I'm Ben O'Connor and this is the
Skinny from the fat Heads I Wear Studios in Speedway, Indiana.
This is the Skinny brought to you by Toyota, Rhino, Classified,
General Tire and Dream Giveaway. This segment of the Skinny
(00:24):
is brought to you by Toyota. Welcome to the Skinny
once again. Ken'stop Michael Young sitting alongside. And have a
very good friend here in the studio who spends a
lot of time here in the Indianapolis area as well.
He is the VP of sales and marketing for Impact
and I never know whether to say impact, safety, impact racing,
(00:44):
but you'll get the just of it. All said and done.
Welcome to the show. Ben O'Connor is with us. Hey,
how you doing. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Great man, Thank you very much for coming out. And uh,
we'll get a chance to pick your brain and find
out what what's coming up in the world of safety.
But as you guys des ribe yourself to fans at
home listening in what is the proper description for the company?
(01:05):
I think you know we we manufacture safet equipment for
motor sports, mostly driver safety equipment helmets, suits, shoes, and gloves,
but we also manufacture automotive safety equipment as well, restraints
and seating things like that. So so the company originally
started off by some guy named Bill Simpson, so of
course we've lost him since, very very important to our industry,
(01:29):
of course, and then it made its way to UH
Robbie Price, UH Robbie Pierce and UM and then was
eventually acquired by Sparko if I'm correcting that, But you
guys operate as though you're an independent Yeah, correct, We
operated our own entity, that's correct. So um, it's interesting
(01:49):
the story of impact racing and and impact and how
it all started. Safety is one of those innovations that
consistently when it changes, and as I'm not sure when
you started with the company, but I know when Bill
started the company and what its focus was on. It's
it's like a moving dartboard that safety is constantly evolving
(02:13):
and changing, but you never get to the finish line,
if if that makes sense. It's always it's always changing,
and that's the most difficult part of what I think
your industry is is finding that new thing. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean we like to say we reserve the right
to learn. Right, You're you're always you're always learning. You
don't know what you don't know. Uh, any time an
event happens, you know, you look at that and you
(02:34):
evaluate things and you look for ways that you can
improve on on what on what you're doing. So yeah,
you're you're right, it's constantly evolving. So let's say there's
uh an entire year in in the various forms of
motorsports and the people that you serve, and there's nothing
really that traumatic of an incident that that that you
could go, oh, there's something we can learn from that
(02:56):
is there is there something to learn from every crash,
every and that it even though it might be a
minor incident. Yeah, yeah, I would say definitely. You know,
there's always something you can learn from every every event,
every incident. It is, no matter whether you have access
to what happened and things like that. But but even
behind the scenes, you know, even without that, you're you're
still always constantly developing. And it may be something as
(03:18):
simple as maybe trying to make the equipment more comfortable. Right,
maybe it's not necessarily directly related to safety, although something
being comfortable is certainly uh related to safety in terms
of economics. If if the driver is more comfortable, he's
more focused on the task at hand, and of course,
the best way to prevent injuries to prevent an event
for ever happening, right, So, so we're always looking at
(03:39):
ways improved the comfort of of the atoms as well.
So that means lighter fabrics, maybe softer lighter fabrics for
the suits, uh, comfortable in tears, for the helmets, lighter helmets,
comfortable gloves. You've seen a transition over the years from
gloves that were more traditionally sown where the seams are
inside the glove, to now they're on the outside in
many cases. And that's all to just prevent bunching up.
(04:02):
And that's little stuff, but but it has a profound
effect on the driver and their performance. They may not
even realize it. It's subconscious, right, but if but again,
if they're not worried about if they're not fidgeting, right,
they're more focused on on the driving, and that makes
them a safer driver, and not just for them, everybody
around them too. So I'm curious, uh you guys deal
(04:23):
with f I A all the time. UM No, no,
not not as much A little bit in f I
are mostly s F. So so to get those, um,
those requirements completed, I'm kind of curious if if all
of the safety companies collaborate and work together to some degree,
or is everybody running their own path just trying to
(04:44):
advance what they can inside of their walls a bit
of both. There are certain from a from a broad
stroke perspective, there are organizations like I c M s
UH that a lot of the safety manufacturers are part
of where we'll meet at counsels maybe annually, to have
an annual council and discuss various different things. And and
(05:04):
the people involved in that that council are people from
all walks of life, you know, medical experts, manufacturers, race tracks, UH,
safety personnel from the race tracks, and and the purpose
that is to to discuss various different topics and learn
from each other in the world of safety. Um, you'll
pick up all kinds of stuff, you know, doing that.
(05:25):
But then there is also of course that you know
that independent you know, strive ourselves to to better ourselves
and and find and learn new things as well, particularly
in the area of I would say of helmets. So
so while you have this council where you may discuss
the effects of concussion, so you can learn a little
bit more from the science aspect of it. Then we
(05:46):
take that information and we'll go back and say, Okay,
how can we build a better helmet based on these
things that we learned, you know, and these from these
conferences and things like that. So so that's our job
is to build a better product. But you know, as
a council, we all learn from each other that way.
So I'm curious who comes up with the bar. Who
does sf I set the bar? I mean, do they
(06:07):
do their homework or do they go to the safety
safety companies like like yourselves, and say, we need this
product to be better than what it is now, or
we believe that if you were to construct something in
this manner, it's gonna make it better. That's gonna be
our new rating. How does that take place? How do
(06:27):
they how do they make you guys tow the line
or do you bring them ideas and nice say wow,
that's great, that's going to be the bar right there.
Typically it's more, you know, we have to the line.
Right Typically they're setting the standards in most cases, there
is typically feedback periods for certain things, particularly look at
SNELL on the helmet side. They'll announce propose changes, and
(06:49):
then then they'll take feedback from the manufacturers based on
that saying, hey, this is this is Yeah, maybe is
cost prohibitive you know, or something like that, or no,
here's why we feel that that this won't work and
it's not actually making it safeter because maybe we're making
this thing safer, but it's going to have a downside
effect in another area. But for the most part, you
(07:09):
take s f I, SNELL f I. They set the
standards and then the manufacturers meet meet the standards, and
I'm sorry, it is a pricey it is a pricey stamp, right,
I mean to get s f I UM certified for
your products. I remember Bill back in the day battling
with those guys to some degree over some of the
hardware and the stuff that that he felt was sufficient
(07:32):
but had not gone through the s f I process.
But to go through the s f I process really
raised the price of everything that he was he was
selling across the board. So I guess what I'm trying
to relate to the fans at home is this is
no easy task that you guys have to get through. Yeah, yeah,
and it's not. And the challenge isn't so much that
(07:52):
any one thing isn't very expensive. It's the thousands of
things that that, of course you have to get through
the standard. So like a Hans device, there's a number
of different items on that device that has to be certified, right,
I mean from the clips to the straps to the
device itself. I mean there's a you think of it as, oh,
(08:13):
that's a Hans device one piece, but it's not really
broken down that way, is it. Yeah, no, exactly. There's
many things that they test. So again you take you
look at a helmet for example, when when you're a
helmet testing, we don't just send a helmet, so multiple helmets, right,
seven eight helmets, and because they need to do a
wide variety of different testing on the helmets, not just
(08:34):
impact resistance, right, It's it's you know, fire resistance of
the interior. It's how strong the anchors are in the
helmet for the FHR so they don't pull out of
the helmet. Uh, it's you know, shield performance, It's it's
all it's a plethora of different things. Right. So so
when you look at that. You know, from a manufactured perspective,
we have to build multiple helmets to send them. Of
(08:55):
course that takes a little bit from production right when
we're doing that. Now that's just you know, one style
of helmet. Now you've got several different styles of helmets
that you have to go through. And it's not an
expensive process. It it is very expensive that testing processes. Um.
So yeah, I've always found it fascinating the safety restraint.
How it's been basically the same since the very beginning,
(09:16):
but you guys have evolved the safety restraint and it's
interesting something that you look at and say, oh, how
can that be any better? Right, You've made it better.
It's fascinating that you picked up on that. As I
tell people that all the time, it's from its basic element.
It's probably the original piece of safety equipment. And you
look back at motorsports, you know, in in other than
(09:39):
maybe the helmets, right, Um, but it's it's probably one
of the most simplistic but yet most complex in terms
of everything that goes into it and how it interacts
with with the human body, you know, the biomechanics of it,
and that's those are the things that that we're always
learning and looking to improve. You know, ten years ago,
(09:59):
nobody would dream of using a two intra straint motorsports, right.
It was unheard of. People are scared to death that
they weren't strong enough. That you just you had to
have that. And you don't know for sure where that
came from, but can only assume that that goes back
to people. At some point someone took a set out
of a piece of military equipment said hey, we could
use these for motorsports, just to be really great, right,
(10:20):
And it was done for the strength the textiles would
advanced so much and strengths not even an issue. We
contested the very very highest standards of requirements by by
s f I f I whoever, and meet it with
the two inches straight no problem, typically to the point
where the hardware user will fail before right to strap this.
But but what we've learned is the importance of you
(10:42):
know where the restraint sits in your in your hip right,
how it sits down that hip pocket, so that you
can get it tighter and and prevent things like a
pelvic Tilton Afford event, right, which creates which you can
get back injuries from. So things like that and how
that affects and how they sit on f hrs. F
HRS changed a lot of that as well. Uh, you
wanted to be narrow, so they sit better in the
(11:03):
FHR device, but it also keeps it closer to the neck,
which which helps prevent stern of injuries because you're keeping
things closer center. In how belts are mounted, angles like
that in whether you know you're going for your typical
five point to six point Ken and Robert can definitely
test to the you know, the advantages of going to
a six point restrain over five point, right, Robert having
(11:26):
experienced an injury from a five point restraint um in
the different ways that that they're mounted. So yeah, it's
there's a lot that goes interstrange. It's it's pretty fascinating.
And then just the adjusters and you know where they
fasten it all out. Ben O'Connor is with us sees
a wealth of information to give you a look at
what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to
safety and the development of for the products that we
(11:48):
all use here on the motorsports industry. We're gonna take
a quick breakare and we'll be right back on the
other side. This segment of the Skinny. It's brought to
you by Dream Giveaway. Dream Giveaway has been giving away
high end American muscle cars to raise money for charity
since two thousand seven. Dream Giveaway is known for giving
away classic and new muscle and paying the federal taxes
(12:10):
so the winners don't have to For twenty five dollars,
you can jump in the game and part of that
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of the coolest cars on the planet. Check it out
at dream giveaway dot com. Welcome back to the Skinny.
We have been O'Connor with us here, vice president of
sales and Marketing for Impact, and UH some great insight
(12:32):
behind what it takes to get the products approved that
they sell to us to make sure that they are
to the proper standard. And of course it's a it's
a wide variety of product and a wide variety of
standards if you don't necessarily need some of those certifications. UH.
As we talked to you and you were mentioning the
shoulder straps, as they've gone back to the two inch
(12:54):
and they lay in lay in the channel now and
as you mentioned, very very strong, UH, We've been in
a couple of six suations. You you mentioned my son Robert,
and we just had a situation even a little bit
earlier this year where I was able to watch courtesy
of an onboard came or something. I'll give you a car.
We can use this in the video portion of the show.
But Uh, he went over a big table top in
(13:16):
the UTV, landed flat, overshot at landed flat, and when
he landed flat, a number of things happened, uh simultaneously
that put him in a really bad situation. And he
had done everything properly in terms of getting in the car.
He has the latest equipment courtesy of you guys, and uh,
things were as tight and as good as proper as
(13:39):
they could possibly be whenever he left. But when he landed,
the compression the cushion in the seat compressed, his spine
compressed to some degree. Whenever those two things happened, the
shoulder belts immediately became loose. Now, I mean we're talking
a couple of inches easy, right, if not more. And
(14:01):
the steering wheel. When he is sitting in the car
and the steering wheel is here, he can move his
head about halfway to that steering wheel. But during this process,
his face hit the steering wheel hard enough that it
popped the face mask back open. And it was quite
I mean, and he is here wearing a head and
neck for straint device, all the stuff, he had all
(14:23):
the proper stuff on, but it was absolutely mind boggling
to see how much the body compresses. I know what
conversely stretches. You know, when people are in a barrel
roll or flipping. You know how much does the human
neck stretches its inches? Correct? Yeah, yeah, so you look
at you know, FHR device is a really good example, right,
and the purposes is to prevent a basslar skull fracture.
(14:46):
Basically needs written skull separates from the neck. But but
your head can move stretch from your neck an amazing
amount before that's really an issue. So these devices are
really just a limit that very extreme motion to prevent
that type of injury. Uh. It's it's interesting that you
say what you said, because we've seen footage over and
(15:06):
over similar things where a driver's helmet will will hit
a doghouse that's maybe you know, elbow level over thirteen
inches and then getting back in the car and replica
and can't move more than six inches no matter how
hard they try. So it is fascinating how much the
human body moves. One of the things that we stress
(15:27):
a lot, and it's this isn't direct related to a
specific product, but when you're laying out your car, the
importance of making sure that there aren't things in the
way that that you could hit because your body moves
so much. Um, you know. One of the things that
we've seen is things like battery cut off switches and
things like that where people's knees getting you know, injured
(15:48):
because they'll hit a switch on the dash or something
you don't think about because you really do move around
a lot in an event. It's it's pretty fascinating. I
crashed a pro buggy that is probably around two thousand
fourteen or team somewhere in there. Uh, and didn't flip.
Just two of us got together mid air, landed sideways. Uh.
It was. It was. It was a rough moment, but
(16:08):
could have been a matter of fact, I thought it
was gonna be way, way worse. But when I got
out of that car, I felt like, let me beat
the hell out of me with a pipe. I had
a big gouge out of my shin my elbows were
beat up, my shins were beat up. I mean, like
you say, I mean, I felt like I had hit
every device inside of that car. Um. It's it's pretty crazy,
um to think about all the all the things that
(16:31):
that the body does hit inside of one of those things.
I mean, I ended up with elbow pads and and
shin guards, you know, just to go racing again, which
a lot of some of the guys do, some of
the guys don't. But yeah, it's it's pretty amazing how
much we we move around inside of these things, despite
doing everything as best we know. Now. Yeah, it's why,
you know, containment such an important thing. We talk a
(16:51):
lot about containment, you know, and and keeping the body
contained in that So you'll see a NASCAR and other
forms of motorsports now where they're really they're having poured seats,
you know, they have the halos around them. I mean,
they're really in a cocoon. And that really is the
limit those types of motions, those those things that can happen.
But you know, even everybody's everyday race car, even if
(17:11):
they don't have the funds to do that, you know,
it's just take some time and look around the vehicle
and you're set up and look at things that may
become problematic. Pad stuff that you wouldn't normally think about. Padding.
Everybody thinks about padding, you know, the roll cage and
things around the helmet, But what about your legs, your knees.
Just just like you said, your shins get banged up
because they're hitting it underneath of the dash. Things you
(17:32):
wouldn't even think about, you know, but when you're flipping
upside down in a bearable, your extremities are flopping around everywhere, right,
So yeah, you gotta you gotta think about that stuff.
Is there a near perfect safety device? You know what?
I would say that that that's a pretty open ended question.
But if you had to pick, when I said, the
(17:53):
FHR is pretty damn good, you know that that probably
original haunts design. You know, that concept really is responsible
for saving a lot of lives. Um uh there there
are certainly other things that were groundbreaking the industry that
are that are right up there, But I don't you know, again,
it goes back to what we said about nothing's perfect.
(18:15):
You're always evolving, you can always learn, you can always
change things. But uh that that's pretty darn good. Uh
Uh suits. You know that the driver's suits, you know,
they've gotten to be pretty darn good. But again, you
can't have too much protection in terms of time, you know,
which is what you're which is what you're looking for
(18:35):
in a in a suit? Right. You talked about the
gloves at the top of the show and taking the
scenes from the inside to the outside. What was the
the the revelation that someone thought, oh, let's do it
on the What what caused that development to happen? You know,
I wish, I wish I could say we did, but
we didn't. That wasn't one of those things that we
came up with. What we certainly understood the reasoning for
(18:57):
it when we saw it. It was one of those
oh course, you know. Well, I think what happened is
is one of the things. Gloves are sewn inside out.
That's how you naturally, it's how you make them. So
I think would probably happen someone at some point said, Wow,
this feels really good without having all that stuff inside.
(19:17):
But originally it looked really odd, It looked unfinished, It
didn't write people. You tend to look at it, Oh
that's not very good looking. When now it's becoming standard
now it's cool. Right now you see and it's like, wow,
that's really cool. You've got external stategic glove. That's awesome. Right,
But there's a science behind it too, right, it has
a practical purpose because it does it doesn't bunch up
on the fingers as much. You know, it's like you'll
see a silicon and boast. Fingers and palms now are
(19:40):
become pretty pretty standard instead of leather, and that's just
for extra grip and and much thinner. So you have
that better tactle feel of the steering well write better
better connection between driver and vehicle. So so again those
are the kind of things that are you wouldn't typically
think of in terms of direct safety, but certainly having
a better grip on the steroid, better feeling the stream
(20:01):
will is going to make a better driver. Again, you
better focus at what you're doing. So I'm blown away.
I mean, the one thing that I think all the
fans can see on a regular basis is how the
seat development has progressed. I mean you see that in
cup any car. You don't see it because as you mentioned,
the seats are poured. The guys literally sit down in
in a solution and it and the seat is molded
(20:22):
around them. But you never really get a chance to
see that. I do know, and talking to some of
the some of the doctors there and emergency personnel with IndyCar,
how things have gotten better. The halo around their head
and the padding to keep you know, to keep their
head from being in for lack of a better description
of paint shaker if you will. Um. But as you
take a look at the drivers in NASCAR, now their
(20:44):
heads are almost almost wedged into that seat. You try
to stop that motion. So if they do barrel roll
the big run. You know, if you're over here and
you've got some gap that big run, whenever you hit
it's tough. But when you take it all away, uh,
now your head doesn't have a chance to move around
and kind of stabilize your eyes, if you will. I
(21:05):
mean it, it's you have the minor vibrations inside, which
which affects your vision. It's it's pretty cool to see
how far they've come to tackle both ends of that, right, right, Yeah,
of course you know that situation where they're really tight
like that. Again, it's about containment in limiting body motion, right,
But that particular scenario, don't know if it's really tight
like that too. They could be really detrimental safety have
(21:27):
a been drive shaft exactly. I mean it would be
so bad, right, terrible, right, So, but but the offset
or but the benefit you know far outways that that possibility.
But then you look at different forms of motorsports, right,
and there's no one size fits all solution. Right, Poured
containment eye containment seats don't work well. And in certain
(21:49):
forms of support, like like off road, you know, they
actually need that little bit of motion, need to be
able to move around a little bit more so than
you would in a situation like that because the vehicles
transmitting so much energy to the driver. Right, that would
be a scenario where you know, the halos are becoming
somewhat popular in off road, but you have to be
really careful with that too, because if you get a
(22:10):
strong side to side motion, you can literally bounce off
the halo and get concussed. Because it's not just the
sharp impacts that cost concussion, it's really the brain moving
inside the skull. You know, everybody's from there, we're shaking
baby syndrome. Well, adults can get that too, right, if
your head is shaking around, even if it's not hitting anything,
you can still get concussed. So so you have to
(22:30):
look at those. You know different things like that. Every
vehicle is different, every form of motorsports different. You know
something that they don't use in any other form of
motorsport that's pretty popular in off road is you know,
a suspension seat. And then there's certain scenarios in a
pure g out situation, you can't beat a proper suspension seat.
I mean you take force for examples, reduction energy. So
(22:53):
in terms of preventing spinal injuries and that pure g
out scenari there's there's nothing better. If you have a
hard shell seat in you the frame bottoms on a
on a on a dirt or whatever. Your body absorbs
all that energy. Whatever the cushion is is going to
take that out. But that's it and the body has
to take all that other energy. Now, there are other
advantages in the heart shall see people argue in terms
(23:14):
of keeping the spinal line properly in an event, like
we talked about the containment right, things like that and
stress due to to bouncing. There's an effect that's known
as a like a double hit and a spend seat
where you where you compressed. You feel that when you
come back up, you hit the restraints and you feel that,
so you're you're kind of according you know, they're an
(23:35):
accordion effect right in the body, and and over a
long haul that that can wear on a driver a
little bit. So you're seeing a lot of drivers now
switch to more of a heart shell seat for that reason.
But you have to understand there is a little bit
there is that outset chance that that you could, you know,
have a spinal energy res result of compression in that
that one scenario of the pure gy out scenario. So
(23:57):
so those are kind of differences that you see. So
spending some time here with Ben O'Connor giving us a
good look at what they look at over the different
forms of our different can you can you just disciplines?
Can you kick me? Michael? Apparently the needle is stuff disciplines,
different disciplines of other sports. So it goes and no,
(24:21):
it's not that early in the morning, so we'll take
a quick break here and we'll be back on the
other side. This segment of the skinny has been brought
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This segment of the Skinny is brought to you by
Rhino Classified. Tired of all those ads and random stuff
(25:04):
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you at Rhino dot Co. Welcome back to the Skinny.
We have been O'Connor here from impact and giving us
some really great behind the behind the closed doors if
you will look at what they deal with on a
daily basis for safety to try and keep our drivers
as and crew members as safe as absolutely possible in
(25:47):
this sport that we love. I've got to think that
when you're watching a racing event, you're looking at it
completely different than most of the people. That that is
so true because you do everything that you see, you know,
every event, anything that happens on track. You're looking at
so many different things. And then when you hear about
(26:08):
rule changes, you know the same thing. You know, we
look at things, I I believe differently than a lot
of people do because we understand the cause and effect
of a lot of things. Right. So sometimes you'll see
sanction bidies will make a rule change. It's like, Okay,
that's great, you're you're you're preventing this, but you're creating
another problem, right. But yeah, when you're watching a race,
(26:29):
you're seeing things and and even little stuff you're like,
oh yeah, that that probably hurt. That was not to
get too far into the weeds. But the way that
at least the Indy cars are made, they're made to
dissipate the energy and to break apart the safer barrier
made to absorb energy. What is the goal for the
(26:52):
driver themselves to keep them as stationary as humanly possible.
Because you talked about the brain jostling around. Should the
body have a little bit of GiB to help it
absorb the internals? Does that make sense? What is the
goal for the drivers to keep a stationary as possible?
And I know as I hit the microphone there, what
(27:12):
is the ultimate goal? Yeah, typically that that's really the goal.
You want them to stay as stationary as possible because
you always have there's always an accordion effect with any event.
And I'll go back to concussions because it's something we
can relate to. Is you know, if your helmet hits something,
it stops, your skull moves, it hits the liner of
the helmet, your brain moves, and it hits the skull.
(27:33):
So you have this cascade of events. You really want
to limit those multiple you know, hits like that and
it goes for a forward event in terms of restraints
and things like that, which is why you want to
stay you know, relatively relatively tight. Now that said, you know,
restraints do stretch and that does help slow down that
motion as well, but you don't want them so loose
(27:55):
that you slam against the restraint, right because now you're
you're gonna get injuries from from that. So you want
to be tight, unim as tight as you can in
the natural stretch of the material of the webbing is
really gonna help slow that motion down. It's kind of
like what they do in terms of energy absorption in
the in the chas Seas and things like that, and
Indy cars as you mentioned, NASCAR of course been doing
(28:15):
that for years, and of course the O. E. M
has been doing it, you know, forever. So I find
it fascinating With the helmet, Is it the gold and
helmets are constantly evolving and changing with materials with weight.
Is the head supposed to be as tight as humanly
possible inside the helmet? What is the goal of the padding,
the material it's made of, the ultimate goal for the helmet,
(28:38):
for the driver and the safety of the head. Yeah,
we'd like to see a tight helmet. Yeah, there's some
drivers though Again it gets back to that comfort thing.
If it if it's painful, obviously it's too tight and
it's gonna distract from the driving and you're creating another situation.
But in terms of purely from a concussion standpoint or
head injury stamp, I shouldn't say concussions many different forms,
(28:59):
but yeah, you want to limit that motion again to
eliminate that that cascading effect that I talked about. You
want to wear a pretty darn tight helmet, you know,
to the point now where it's hurting that. You know,
the tighter, tighter, the better. Who does the material development
for you? Do you? Is that an in house thing
where you're constantly looking at different types of plastics, different
types of materials for the for the suits, for the restraints.
(29:21):
How does that work? So so it's a collaboration between
us and our vendor partners, particularly on the suit fabric side,
because we don't mail our own fabrics, right, but but
we do work with a couple uh manufacturers of the
of the fabrics that will come to us, you know,
and they're constantly evolving as well, say hey we've got
this new fabric slider breeze better, or the the TPP
(29:42):
performance of the fire performances you know, increased over x. Right. Um,
so we're looking at that helmets somewhat similar, although the
helmet development side, least in our case, because we do
all that in house, I mean manufacture right here in Indianapolis.
You know, a lot of like the layup of the
shell and all that in the mixture of what uh
(30:04):
what fabrics or materials are used that that's all developed
by us, you know, that's that's on us to figure out. Okay,
we need a little bit of this this you know
material here, followed by that and a layer of that,
multiple layers maybe notable layers, not throughout the helmet. Maybe
it's right so that that all comes comes back on us.
But we also depend on our our vendor partners there
(30:25):
too to come up with you know, new things, particularly
like the liners themselves. You know, hey, we've got a better,
you know, better way manufacturing this so that it's more consistent.
Maybe something like that. Right, is there is there a
place that any driver can go online? Um? Quite possibly
your website. I don't know, but you mentioned it before.
(30:47):
And I do know that when we set our car up,
my son is pretty tall at six four, so typically
does not fit in the normal seat. And the bars
the where the straps go on or need to be adjusted,
so you know, for example, the shoulder belts. I mean,
if he said, in any normal car, they would go
up and around his shoulder be pulling down compressing instead
(31:08):
of more pulling back. And I know there's a there's
a preferred angle of that belt. It's not straight across,
there's a small angle there, and then you would already
mentioned that where the hip belt should go. Is there
someplace where mom and pop can figure out exactly how
they should be strapping in their kids, because I feel
like it's the most incorrect thing done on a regular basis, Yeah,
(31:31):
just because of lack of knowledge more. Yeah, yeah, it is.
It's an educational process for sure. Um. You know, on
our website we do have uh different very different diagrams
or catalog also show proper mounting and the differences between
say three inch and two inch and things like that,
and frankly programs like this. You know, I've done several
of these over the last few years where we're evangelizing
(31:55):
the benefits of two inch or straints and and in
other things like cam walks in off road and things
like that which they used to do. Right. So, uh,
it is an educational process for sure. And you're right,
a lot of people just they just don't know, you know,
so since I have to take the message to them.
You you mentioned camlocks of course, um, the rotary style
(32:16):
which we do use an off road now and and
primarily because by your advice. Now, the rules in the
series that we were in before wouldn't allow it, but
we have been able to sense change over to that.
But as we look at the progression of safety products,
I think the phone has come a long ways. The
progressive foam, as it gets denser, as the head is
moving back and forth in the containment seats, the camlocks,
(32:38):
the head restraint devices, the belts from three inch to
two inch. What what are you guys working on now?
What's is there a is there a big thing around
the corner or is everything just baby steps getting getting better?
The industry has come so far it really is more
now it's baby steps. Really, You're you're just looking for
(32:58):
that little improvement here and there. You know. We're looking
at things like like the adjusters on their strengths and
making sure they're easy to use so they're easy to tighten,
to get the driver tighter in the in the cockpit
and things like that. A lot of things related to
comfort again, right, it's one thing to be safe, you
also have to be comfortable too, So things like that.
I can't say there's any aha things in the horizon
(33:22):
that way, you know, in terms of that um they
would just be improvements on existing designs and concepts really
that I know of. Uh So, so if there is
one out there, it's not gonna be from us. Unfortunately,
somebody's got something other better mousetrap for something, you know,
it's we'll see. But uh I think a lot of
us just incremental all of this. How are things tested
in house? Do you take them out of house? Where
(33:43):
where do you test? If you have an AHA moment?
If you will, how do you test the aha? So
so there's a couple of different things that depends on
what it is. Helmuts, we we test right in house.
We as we call drop helmets and we literally drop
helmet on an anivil in different shape anvils and things
like that, and you measure the energy forces. So that
stuff's done in house, right, So, and we have we've
(34:06):
learned a lot, you know, doing that over the years.
You'll find some improvements that way, restraints or tested through
s f I s f I laboratories. They're gonna play
out there in Power, California. Uh that they do stuff.
And then of course SNELL for for helmets right and snow,
they'll they'll offer all of them, offer additional service, not
just testing for certification, but you can send R and
(34:27):
D samples right to have testing done that way and
then give your feedback that way, so you learn that way. Yeah,
so because the bill to do all the testing in house,
it would be be pretty expensive to bill to do that.
Ben O'Connor here with Impact, vice president of sales and Marketing.
He will be at the p r I show if
you have a chance to get there. That will happen
(34:48):
at the beginning of December. Make sure you stop by
and talk to him. A wonderful gentleman, as you can tell,
just full of information to help you out and whatever
your case may be, one way or the other, and
we'll gladly spend some time with you. A wonderful company
with wonderful product. They've been in the game for a
long long time, extremely knowledgeable people. We appreciate you taking
(35:10):
the time. I know you're just across town here, not
too far away, but still a very busy man and
uh back and forth the Phoenix. So I'm glad we
got you while you were here in Indy. Yeah, thanks again,
thanks for having me. Love it. Yeah, pleasure for sure. Michael,
Thanks buddy, Carl, Thanks as always my friend. Matter of
fact is this Carl's final shows. Could be Carl's final show.
(35:30):
We might try to work something out here. Official crash dummy,
crash test dummy Carl. So he's done a wonderful job
if it is his final show with us. Thanks man,
You've been awesome to work with and you've given us
a great product, so we certainly appreciate it. I hope
you enjoyed the show here. I'm kin Stout. Thanks for
watching the Skinny. Thanks for being with us here on
the Skinny. This episode has been brought to you by Toyota,
(35:53):
Rhino Classifies, Dream Giveaway and General Tire for the latest
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(36:16):
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