February 24, 2022 • 41 mins
This week the guys visit with perhaps the greatest racing driver you've never heard of...Tommy Byrne. Tommy's early days in Ireland had no aspirations of ever becoming a driver. By chance, he was given an opportunity and so the story begins. From the slowest to the fastest in the same season in Formula 1, this is The Skinny on Tommy Byrne.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Skinny with Rico and Kenna is a production of
I Heart Radio. I'm Tommy Burn and this is the
Skinny from the Fatheads I Wear Studio in Speedway, Indiana.
This is the Skinny brought to you by Toyota and
General Tire. This segment of the Skinny is brought to
(00:21):
you by Toyota once again. Welcome back to the Skinny.
Kim Stout here, ready to have a great time. My
buddy Rico Elmore sitting right alongside Michael Young back there.
Run under controls. So if you can see us and
we're clear, give him props. If we're a little fuzzy,
well that's Michael. Everything looks fuzzy. We've got a great
(00:46):
friend of mine in here today and I had the
pleasure of meeting him a few years ago. He's probably
the fastest driver you've never heard of. There's a number
of drivers that certainly know who he is. He certainly
made a name were himself in his heyday, for sure.
But we're talking about a guy that's good enough to
beat Irton Senna. Talking about a guy that ran quicker
(01:10):
in a championship winning or at least a race winning
Formula One McLaren car Um, we're talking about one of
the best race car drivers in the history of race
car drivers that got just that close but could not
get there. Tommy Burn, Welcome to the show Man. Thank you,
(01:30):
thanks for having me. Yeah. Absolutely, Uh your story. As
I mentioned before, you know, I had a pleasure of
meeting you back at mid Ohio, I guess somewhere along
the way and my son Robert, was racing. I think
we were doing something and it was a Detroit Detroit
one of the Nissans I was. I was driving coaching
and me and you were watching your son drive run
into Really that's right because you said you said the
(01:52):
real drivers will show up here in the rain, we
had a river running through them. Is slow Nissan, I
think it was, but he did good because of the
rain it was, so we picked up a few spots. Yeah, uh,
that's exactly right. So and we became buddies. And of
course I had a chance to read your book in
the meantime. And uh, he has a book out. It's
called Crash and burn It is an absolute worthwhile reading.
(02:16):
I think it's Crashed and Burned, isn't it? Crash and Burned?
Crash and burned. I don't know you wrote it. Well,
the book is crashed and burned b y r n
e D and the documentary is crashing, burned b r N.
So I get confused. You know what I was looking
for that I was looking for it. It was I
was spelling your name. I was doing the same thing.
I was spelling the name. Yeah, exactly. Actually that's how
(02:38):
they would have done it. That documentary was awesome. It's
a it's on Amazon Prime, and I told you we've
done it that way too. But hey, I think it's
three ninety nine on Amazon Prime. You get a kick
of that. I'm supposed to get a kick of it.
But okay, well I did it last night. It was
the Irish guy who did the movie from me said, Tommy,
get that fifty cents. He goes, Tommy, you probably never
(02:59):
get any of this. There's yeah, I get your pen ready,
there's your first marker, there's your first Sorry about the Beeves, Michael,
but the so watching the documentary, it's it's good. It's
very good, very entertaining, but it doesn't go into the
(03:21):
detail clearly because of the time constraints that the book
goes into. Well, the book I I actually wrote the
book myself with Marcus and I would. I started off
writing it by hand because I couldn't type at the time,
years ago. And then I found a right of Marcus,
who's to form any one correspondent, and then I would
I'd write it by hand, I'd send it to him
(03:43):
and then he would pick and choose why he was
going to use, and so I that there are my words.
And then when I started doing the documentary with the
Irish guys, really nice guys. They were trying to get
me to tell the same story. But when I was
in the book, I was either high or drinking. I
(04:04):
just had to get that right, you know moods. I
was on the Arab pin or something in first class,
and I feel, oh, yeah, I'll start. That's how I
did the book. And but so it's very hard to
do the same thing with the movies. So I think
the movie is pretty it's pretty doom and gloom, because
I really, yeah, I may not have made it all
the way to the top monu wise, but I was
(04:24):
always happy. You were always happy. Well that's good because
you certainly do not get that feel exactly like as
you say from the documentary, it's like, you know, it's
it's like your entire life slipped away. Say Angel's Ashes,
you know. I don't know if you ever watched that one,
but that was very depressing Irish movie as well. And
so no, that's actually not me. I'm I'm usually more happy,
but I watched it once. I can't I couldn't watch
(04:47):
it after that. But a lot of people like it,
you know, I mean it's a documentary. The book, the
book is is very entertaining. They can get that? Can
they get that on Amazon? The book is I actually
on my website, my website crash over burn. It's actually
crash burn dot com. B u r M b y
(05:10):
r an. Okay, alright, alright, clarification. Three different spellings for
three different things. I mean I did, so I watched it.
Uh you know, I knew who you were and uh
and uh much respect. I mean, it's just where you
came from. Uh. You know, I worked. I've worked to
(05:34):
get anything I've ever had. My family was hard workers,
you know. But we didn't have the golden pot at
the end of the rainbow. So it took took all
of us that made it to make it make it
that way. But you know, it's uh, it's got to
be difficult. I mean, and you said you watched it
one time, which I totally I totally get. I think
(05:56):
I think I read my book once too. I can't
believe I wrote what I wrote. Yeah, I'm sure that,
I'm sure that that's a good time in itself. But
but yeah, just some of the stuff in the in
the documentary and and uh and uh the highest of
the highs and definitely some lows, lowest of the lows.
So it's a that's a that's a tough gig. Much
(06:18):
respect for for being able to to go through it.
There's some people that can't take themselves back through you
know this stuff. And and uh, I watch I watch
a lot of different music stuff and Johnny cash is
Johnny cashes deal was much of the same where he
went back to where his family the homestead and pretty wild.
(06:39):
So the the I guess the best way to describe
you as just a scrapper from Ireland. I mean, just
a little dude from a little town family with with
you know, modest means at best, and your first race car.
You you literally got your mom to do a second
mortgage or alone on her house. Or she stood behind
(06:59):
you had the first The first first one was fifty
uh pounds of punch at the time, that's what you
call it. Um it was, And I think that wasn't
that hard to get The second one, Yes, she I
walked with her to the bank, and there's five other
kids involved. It's not just it's not just me. I
was just better at, you know, getting things, a getting
(07:21):
what I wanted. So I got it to the bank
and we just I told her what to say, and
she lied to him and told him that we were
building an extension on the house for my sister who
was pregnant and had to move in, you know, and
getting married, and that she did. Um, we got the money.
I think if we could do that today with the bike, yeah,
probably not gonna happen. Got had on and they're like,
(07:43):
we don't care. Tell them they're gonna have to live,
you know. And that was the easy part of the gig.
I mean, once you got the race car, now you
had to perform, and it was just you. Oh yeah,
I crashed the first. I could write a book on
just the first two years of me trying to get something.
We absolutely no idea what we were doing. I had
no car, I had no trailer. I had a lot
(08:04):
of friends. I borrowed everybody, helped me at everybody. Because
I say I'm going to be a driver. I was
going to be a welder in America. That was my goal.
When I was fifteen years of age, I was been
serving my time as an apprentice welder and I used
to watch a lot of John Wayne movies Christmas time
because we only had three channels back in Ireland and
John Wynn was always on the holidays. So for some reason,
(08:27):
I always want to come to America. So my my
mind made up I was going to come to America
as a welder. And a friend of mine went over
and he was making fortunes and you know, so I say, yeah,
that's what I'll do. And then I was going to
be mechanic. Well, the mechanic, it's very simple. I'm very
happy with my life with working on cards. Since I
was tiny, I just loved working on cars. And then
(08:47):
my friend went to a school in Ireland's only one
track in Ireland and he paid fifteen punts for fifteen
laps and then in the race car and Groan pre
just came out of like I just watched the while
before that, and I see in the cars parked out,
said our local hotel. And then I said that I
had no license driving license, So I said, dude, ask
(09:08):
you for a license. He goes, Nope. So I got
a lift up there up to Mandela. It was raining.
I did fifteen laps and I spun seven times out
of the fift in the rain, and that was it.
When I was finished, at the end of it was
only wasn't that long. Then I decided it was gonna
be risk car driver instead of a mechanic welder, and
(09:28):
I was it. I just full focus from that moment, dawn,
and for some other reason, I just thought that I
was the best drive in the world. Don't ask me
where he came from. I have no idea. My mom
didn't start driving still she was forty, and my dad
never drove at all, So I have no idea where
the talent came from, where anything came from. But that's
(09:49):
what happened with me, and and I didn't have a hero,
So I never had any heroes in racing because I
wasn't going to be a risk car driver. I didn't
watch and you know, I just started all this nineteen
seventy six, and that which didn't help me when I
went to drive him, because you know, everybody says, so
you know who's you're who's your hero? And I go
(10:10):
me so I said, I think that's modest, probably probably
a lots of stuff that you know, if you you
know you, there's other ways of going too bad, I guess.
But my biggest problem is I'm pretty honest, and I
have a very hard time. I'm not telling the truth well.
And I think if you know, a lot of people
will take that and they'll put a twist on it
(10:30):
that he was. He was cocky, he was arrogant. But
knowing you, I only know you mildly if you will,
but knowing you and your personality, I could see you
saying I'm my hero with a chuckle, in a lighthearted way,
not in a cocky are and like, you know, I
am the man, not that way, you know, to have
a little bit of fun with yourself, And yeah, I don't.
(10:52):
Maybe maybe not, but maybe at the time I actually did,
I was my hero. But here, I mean, the first
part of it is believing in yourself off right, That's
like I started the eye Work company. I knew how
to put them on exactly. Yeah, I I didn't know
anything past that. I mean, if if if, if, if
a team manager comes to you and wants to give
(11:12):
you a job, which doesn't happen that often and racy,
and he says, so, tomm me, how do you think
do you think you're a pretty good driver? And if
I answered, well, thank you, I'm I'm not I'm not bad.
I think I'll think I'll get I think I might
get better. So well, so he's gonna hire you? Or
then you said you're pretty good driving, yet best drive
(11:33):
in the world. Then you were yeah, there you go again.
I was gonna say the worst word than that. And
so you know, you're you're doomed if you do or
if you don't. You know, so um yeah, definitely yeah.
I think the good guys do answer that way and
a firm but of course they do now more than ever.
(11:54):
Right and now you know now right, but now now,
I mean, you know, you get you know, you get
these drivers out there that start talking like that, and
I was like, yeah, I like his attitude. Then they're like, oh,
what is he talking about? You know, That's kind of
what I was watching this and I was like, well,
how that's how they talk all the time now, I mean,
you know, and and uh and a lot worse and
(12:17):
a lot further so. But it's, uh, it's interesting seeing
how how that progression and just people didn't have the
temperament for it. You know, when was the last time
somebody called your foot and a half? Last two weeks ago? Oh? Really? Yeah?
Something just walking by and just shouted up because not
(12:39):
that many people know the funding half story funding footing
a half his When I was an apprentice welder, I
was fifteen years the vidge and my the guy was
working for it because I was so I was really small,
I mean a small enough, but I was fifteen. I
didn't spread until I was like seventeen or eighteen, so
I went to like four ft no, five ft six
(13:01):
or whatever. But so he started calling me foot in half.
And I was never there. I was never where supposed
to be. I was always all screwing around or doing
something or just doing stuff I wasn't supposed to be
doing all. He was just screaming out thought, naha funna.
And so that's that was my nickname, and that at
that time was half. We'll take a quick break on
(13:22):
that note, and we'll be right back with more from
Conny Burn. This segment of the Skinny is brought to
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Welcome back to the Skinny Way of Tommy Byrne and
the studio with us here and uh great to have
him where. This a story is second to none, still
(14:03):
heavily involved by the way in the industry, you just
same from time to time. I happened to bump into
him at the twenty four hours of Daytona. It's good
to see you down there. Um as we're talking about
your story, working your working your way up through I
wanna I gotta mention a couple of different things both
in the documentary and in the book. But you were
I mentioned at the top of the show, you were
(14:24):
faster than I written, Senate Nikki Lauda. And the reason
I used those two is because there's some proof there.
We can not really this anything. I never got to
race against him, Oh you didn't. I thought he was
a teammate that you raced. You know, he was the
same team as me. I was a year ahead of him.
He was done. He was done one to me. The
only time I ever raced against there and Senate was
(14:45):
and we did a risk and in Formula three and
nineteen I think it was three. I won the championship
year before and he wanted in the Formula four to
tis and and then I was doing European Forma three
and he was doing bridges for him, and we're in
the same race together. I qualified six. Martin Brundon was
a second, The sender was first, she crashed off. I
finished second, that's it. And then then in Macau he
(15:08):
was in a role that was an answer and the
court he wanted to race over there and I was third.
So we never got We never did get back the
way that I wanted to one day. And as far
as the Test, Nikolade wasn't there, and Nikkola I drove
Nikolad his car. He was there the week before and
it was half it wasn't exactly dry, so that wouldn't
be fair. But Terry Bootson was the one that was
(15:29):
there exactly. I got out of the car that he
could out of the car and I got in, so
that that was the one he was and that was
apples Apple. So yeah, you can say it, but again
I can't tell. I can't tell a lie. So Nicki
wasn't there, but um, but the car was definitely. We
heard that she raised to his to his tires on
(15:50):
his car and you wont no that that that that's
that's in the book. But I used to get the
cars for all the Brazilians because I worked with Ralph
Firm and I drove for Ralph Firm and Van Demon
and I had friends in London with US car dealerships,
so I would get the car for Ralph too. I
(16:11):
just sell the Brazilian and give to them. So I
got one for Senna. His name was I hurting the
silver at the time, and so I got a call
and Ralph give it to him and actually send it.
Never paid for the car, so he never did. So
he Ralph give him a basically a road call for free.
And then was Senna retired at the end of that year,
and I drove his car in the in the Formula
fourth festival. He retired for racing, and he'd have the
(16:33):
car there and I just never Ralph never got to
me but taking it back or selling it or whatever.
He just left it there. And I had the same
type car and I get a puncture, so instead of
getting the puncture figs, I just take it off. The
card was sitting there and so I did that a
couple of times. So now it looks like because my
car was a sport model, so on the car sitting
there saying his car supposed the times, but not really
(16:55):
send because he never paid for it and he's not
coming back any so it what's the matter. So and
so he did come back. He came up with that
town to anybody, and I was in the office and
he came in. He took one knock at his car
with all the tires were flat on it and the
different colors and everything, and that he came in and
just started screaming and chatting at me, and he just
lost his mind. Yeah, he wanted to be the shoot
(17:16):
out and for you know, for fucking borrowing. We didn't
even belong to him or cars, so he um. So
he was very angry, and most likely he was angry
because when he retired he was driving for me for
won two championships, but for me, for his festival was
(17:37):
the most the most important rays that manufacturer could win.
And Route was a manufacturer, and he asked me, Tommy Ken,
you can you send it? Just left me, you know,
high and dry, can you win the race? I just
wanted to form met four two Tasan championships, the European
one on the British one, and I said, sure, that
would send his car and that special there was a
(17:58):
special engine that he used to get that race, and
whoever was leading the championship minister would give them what's
called it was called Patch super engine, and everybody that
won the festival got the engine and it was like
probably half a second lap quicker than the other one.
So I said, was sending his car on that engine,
no problem? And and I did. I won all four
(18:18):
races and won the festival and got a free Formula
three ride the next week for from Barbara and then
the guy I drove for Murray Taylor. He was so
impressed that he got got the money for me, raced
by race for the next year, so I send it.
Didn't retire at that time, and I would never have
won the I've finished second the year before in the
(18:40):
festival and meant nothing. Robert and Marina want it, and
then that changed everything. Even after winning four championships, I
had nothing. I wasn't going anywhere until I won for
me FOURD Festival and then bomb that got me Formula
three and and then I did Formula One for those
couple of races at the same time as I was
doing Formula three, because that's the same of store. That's
(19:00):
kind of what happened here. He was. He was pissed
and obviously I want in his car. And the car
number was sixty. Pretty amazing. Is that important? I don't
know how you even said that, but because I didn't
find out till years later, I just did. Somebody you know,
sent me a picture of the car, and I've just
seen the number and I didn't know what it was
at the time. When I was driving it. I saw
(19:21):
the car that you jumped in the black was that
a player's car that you ran in the documentary. That
are you talking about the Formula one car? I think so, yeah,
the Nikki lad car. It was a Malburry car. There
was a black car recent not not back. Oh yeah
(19:41):
that was that was Jim just an Arrow, my sponsor,
Jim McGuire. That was his Formula three car and he
had he had depended like kimmy racking and Formula one
car at the time. That's what that was a Formula
three car at mid Ohio. That's cool ride. Yeah, it's
just again like in the in the my documentary, Um,
(20:02):
you see me driving my car and I got out
of the car, you know, my former three car. I
was walking because we had acted a little bit, and
I'm walking past with my friend going, hey, look at that.
Here's my car over there, even though we did it
ten times, you know, walked back and forth. He goes, oh, yeah,
I look at that. So we walked over and started
looking at it, and then the owner goes, do you
want to drive it? I said yeah, sure, So then
(20:22):
I get into it and then we drove and I
didn't want to drive it because of a piece. There
you go again, So I get I get into the car,
and I the cameras around me taking a picture of me,
and then I drove tuck off, drove off in the
wrong gear, second gear instead of first, and the owner's gone,
I hope he doesn't mess with clutch up. So I
took off around the track and then you see then
(20:44):
the camera pans to me driving around the track at
Brand's hatch, and I didn't drive the call all on
the track. I drove the car around the corner and
the guys came running over, the director and the producer
and stuff, and and give me a bottle of water
and I threw the water in and run my head
and everything, which is my idea because for sweat. And
then they drove right back to where when I started from.
(21:06):
And then I tuck my hammet off and all the
sweat and every going, Wow, that was the best. That
was just some Yeah, that was so much, so much fun.
Never drove call it all right, Yeah, yeah you had me,
so you did well. It was a great acting. What
was the story where I think you were gonna have
(21:26):
a test? I think you were having a test. Maybe
they had somebody fast inside of the car. Then they
were going they told you they were going to make
some changes to the car, maybe move the pedals for
you or something like that. And I might be getting
two different stories confused here, but at some point you
decided I'm not going to drive today. I went to
the bar, had a few drinks, and then all of
a sudden I got a phone call and they wanted
(21:47):
me to come back. Yeah, that was That was Dijon,
I think it was their niece. And we had to
qualify for the Monaco for me A three rays and
dum and I raised here before I finished third and
fourth I think before in the former three of Monica.
But for some reason, and there's so many cars, I
had to pre qualify or something like that. So I
was driving for Anson, Gary Anderson, and who was Anson
(22:10):
Formula one Eddie. Jordan's designed the Formula one car for
Eddie and the Stewart Formula one car. So it rained
and it was raining so bad the track was flooded,
so it was canceled. So we all went down to
a local French cafe. Me and Gary were behind the
contra teaching them how to make real Irish coffees, So
we drank a lot of Irish coffees. The whole team
(22:33):
was there was me and Gary and the mechanics, so
we had more than one, probably like six or seven,
maybe ten. And the next thing is we got word
that cogresses back on again, so you no, you know,
it wasn't intentional, but you know, we all had to
go back to the track and I think I started
last or something for whatever reason, and I got up
(22:55):
to six, which was good enough to qualify for the
race for the Monica and carry. Anderson said me, is it.
I have no idea how you drove that down because
I couldn't even see him coming because he was showing
me to bid board and he was so drunky, couldn't
see me coming. It's just just note a story, but
it's true. That's what happened. So it's interesting. You we
(23:18):
were talking about Connor earlier and one of the things
that we asked him when he was here. One of
the things we asked him earlier when he was here
or when he was in the studio, and I know,
I'm we've sponsored it for a long time. Could do
a great guy. He's like, he's like, we asked him
if there was any era that he could have ran,
(23:42):
you know, with any car what would have been. He's like, oh,
early two thousand's. He's like these guys when they would
have you know, they would get down at the track,
they would get on a jet. They were in the
Bahamas and he was talking about Checkter and you know
Dixon back of the day, way before he was married,
and a bunch of these other guys, Weldon and all
(24:04):
of them, and it was just interesting to hear him,
hear him talk about it. And I actually met Pastrana
through through Connors. Yeah, and uh we were uh we
had sponsored Connors truck race out at out at Vegas,
not the one where he tried to plow the wall
(24:24):
down or anything, but the the other truck race. But
it was, it was It was great and Travis just
an amazing guy. But Connor, he he he's one about
having fun and he's a he's a really nice guy.
I'm glad that I'm glad he got Seve a deal
for this year because he's a I like him. I
(24:44):
think a full year with A with A with the
same team, and I think he's got a pretty good
engineer and a pretty good team around him, you know,
with Eddie and those guys. I think that I think
he could have an opportunity. And of course, you know
when Pastrana was on we We're you know, we are
are Sweet for Fatheads is in turn two and you
(25:06):
know Connor's leading the race. You know, we're part of
this deal. We're sitting there and like everybody in the suite,
I'm like, be quiet, like I'm watching it on TV
so I can keep button. You don't watching all of it, right,
that's probably hammer too, but that's beside the point. But
I'm sitting there watching it and this tire comes out
(25:28):
of the sky and I'm like, did you see when Connor,
when when Graham Rayhall hit the wall, the tire blows off,
goes goes flying. Any any idea how high that was?
I mean literally it was straight up. Connors driving around
(25:50):
just smokes the front end of it. That's the That's
the look at the Irish. We don't that's all, thank you.
The look at the Irish is that I don't. I
don't think I got much luck, you know. I mean,
it's crazy. But going back to the IndyCar O'Connor and
it's the most competitive series in the world and there's
(26:10):
no doubt about it. The whole field. Sometimes it's covered
by one second. It's just he's just just think about
every single thing has to go right, did you get
close to the found they're all they're all good drivers.
Not It's not like, you know, there's a bunch of winkers.
It is interesting, you know, when the I r L
started and you know, I don't know all the all
(26:30):
the stuff that went on between cart and in you
know how all that split up, and you know, everybody's
got their own side of it. But at the end
of the day, you know, the Hall and George family said,
you know, this is the way we want to do it,
and quite frankly, they had the money to do it
the way they wanted to do it, which is generally
(26:52):
the way things work. Well. When they first started, I
mean you know, there were there were some teams that
were in there that oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, definitely shouldn't
have been out there. That was the time to win Indy,
if you have any chance of all the winning it
with Yeah, yeah, it was when it was any It
was when it was easy to win. Would have been
probably round about that time. Easy a right right now,
(27:13):
it's it's just crazy, al right, guys, We're gonna take
a quick breakcre one more time. We'll be right back
with more from Tommy burn This segment of the Skinny
is brought to you by Toyota. Welcome back to the Skinny.
Kim Stanton, Rico Elmore sitting alongside, and we have Tommy
Burne who's joined us here in the studio. Quick note,
(27:35):
side note that man signed my competition license off. Yeah,
the ohile he he was my instructor and went through
all the sessions and uh yep, he signed her off.
At the end of the day, I must say I've
been working at mid Ohio. Probably not because I was
done in Mexico. Obviously we don't have time to go
through all of it. But if anybody wants to find out,
(27:56):
going off to check out the documentary and crash and Burned.
Yeah b U, R, M, Y R and D for
the book or by r any or or burn. Just
try it both ways. You are in ead. Just think
of a way to spell burn and give her a
try and you get it. You get something, You get
(28:17):
it one way or the other. Okay, now I've lost
my train in the talk talk to text that will
come back. We were telling you were you brought up Mexico,
so let's just let's just stay in. It was done
in Mexico, and I was just, you know, it's I
should have quit ten years earlier. You know, I've got
a real job. But you keep you your hanging for
one more year, one more year, because you know there's
always a chance of getting you know, a couple of
(28:38):
hundred grand or maybe even better than that. So I
just waited. I just hung on. And because they didn't
any lights, and I want, I want a bunch of
racing any lights. I started again when I came to America,
and then I was kind of getting to a low ebb.
And then I went to Mexico to sell a helmet
and then I end up meeting some crazy people down there,
and I got to drive down there, and I raised
down there, and it was sponsored by Quicker Said and
(29:00):
Yellow Pages. It was called Sectional Maria Yellow Pages and
Corona and so Quaker State Corona and Yellow Pages, and
it was driving Formula two and Formula three. And I
was getting paid. I was getting paid cash because I
said I needed cash because I didn't trust the Mexicans
to pay me, because I just didn't. So I was
(29:21):
getting nine thou nine cash sent to me by FedEx,
which is very dangerous. That was that was the first
time I got a center because I wasn't gonna go
down there with getting the money, and so that was
sent to me the first time, and then after that
I was bringing back nine to use because they don't check,
(29:41):
you know, if it's ten thou exactly. So um so
if anybody stopped, they just think it was a drug dealer,
but I wasn't. But it was partly in a lot
down in Mexico, and I met a guy called Orto.
He's in the boat and he helped my team. A
lot great people down there under they're racing crazy. I
mean there are for me one you think politics have
(30:03):
had and formula one. Mexico's worse. So I was kind
of getting a lot of party and too much party.
Any time of the day, like one o'clock in the day,
I could pick my phone up by an apartment down
there in Zona Rosa. I could pick my phone up
one o'clock, call any of ten people and just party
for the rest of the day and then maybe into
the night. And so in the end there was a
(30:24):
lot of girls involved too, and you know, nakedness and
just craziness and or show. My friend for some reason
just went crazy one night and stars shooting not me, um,
and that he missed and I and I had to
hide a couple of girls because you know, they we're
running around naked, and then the guns ride and that
(30:47):
they were all hiding behind me. So I then got
the gun off him, and I and I got the
bullets out of it and give him a gun back.
I give him the gunback with no bullets, and then
I hid myself in the room. And then next morning
he usually forgot about it, you know, the next day
he would forget about his craziness. And then the next
day he came at six o'clock in the morning knocking
(31:08):
on my door looking for the bullets. So I said,
there's only one reason he wants to bullets. It was
the trend shoot me again. So um, I went, I
snuck out, snuck out of there. I got a taxi
across the other side of Mexico City to my team
owner and told him, I said, this guy is he's crazy,
that they're want to kill kill me or kill somebody
else or kill himself. But I probably need to need
(31:29):
to get out of here now. So I left. I
went back to Florida and then and I talked to
Cavin Fish. I actually got me a job, I said, Cavin,
I need to get I need to get something going here.
He was chiefly struck the midd Ohio. He got me
a job there, and now I've been there. I've been
there ever since. But sometimes I did a hundred and
fifty days a year. Last year I did like thirty
(31:52):
and then so I'm I've been at mid Ohio lots
and knots and the orchard guy that that tried to
shoot me, he was dead five days later. He drowned
in the swimming pool in mixed and he was very,
very wealthy, and so I just it was just time
to move on, you know, man, man, some crazy times.
(32:12):
How long how long time frame wise did you compete
down there in Mexico with two years? Two years? So
so there was a fair amount of good times down there. Yeah, yeah,
two years. I want I only want a couple of races,
So it's still just yeah, just crazy stuff. You still
have to have the car. If you haven't got the car,
you're not gonna win. You know, you have to have
good cars because there's a decent driver. Allenberg was down
(32:34):
there and Rod McLeod he worked for Ron worked for
a time years ago. Rod, he's a good drive, big
driver coach now for fer Our Challenge. Now. It was
very competitive Inople and every day there's something in the
paper and I was X for me one driver, so
they you know, so I could you know, I didn't
have any any time, any hard time partying anywhere. So
(32:58):
after the after that test with McClure, and you knew
you were laid down a time, um, but you didn't
get the gig. I was never gonna I was never
going to. I was never going to get a gig.
Before I went there, I knew that I had no drive,
but I still was going to get the drive the
best car in Formula one and then and I was
(33:18):
definitely telling my old team and for formerly one to
come and watch me because they were telling me I
couldn't drive and them, so I said, will come watch
me when I do the mc claren test, because that's
paid for by Marlborough. By Marlborough because I won the
British Former three championships, So the first three drivers get
a test in the in the McLaren that happens every year.
So I already run around down this before all this
(33:41):
and talked to him. There was no drives and there
was everybody was signed up. There was nothing available. No
matter what I did, I wasn't going to make any difference.
And a couple of years later then there was test
drives available and everything else, so things open up and change,
but right at that time, there was nothing. There was
nothing happening. Now I did go pretty quick, and it
(34:02):
turns out I didn't have a great car because they
they didn't give me full of gas. And that was
Tony van Dungen, Tony, if you're listening, So that was
kind of that was the story that I was talking about.
Were they They said they were going to make some
change it, but Tony slowed the car down. Well, when
I went, we all everybody goes to McClaren. He gets
fitted like a month before you drive the car, very professionally.
(34:25):
Remember they were not probably the number one team, one
of the top four teams in the in the world.
So we all went and we got fitted at different times,
very well done. So whenever Terry boots and got out
of the car and I got in the change the
pedals for me and I was twenty years later, I
was riding around I think it was called Lake and
I met Tony van Dungan who was a mechanic that day,
(34:46):
him and and Riley and Scott Scott Mark Scott was
the other mechanic. And he said, hey, Tommy, how are
you doing. I haven't seen it for twenty years. How's
it going? What are you doing? That's well, I'm doing,
there's there's doing some driver coach and worked in Middle Ohio,
web case maybe, and he said, he said, you know, man,
you're so fast that day and you weren't even he
didn't even have the best car as well. I had
(35:08):
the same card to Terrie Boots and got out of
and I can enter. He goes, yeah, but we were
told not to give you full throttle when you get
into it. I just went, why was that? He goes,
somebody didn't want you to go fast? I guess, And
that kind of how many years later, twenty years later
this when I this one, I was writing the book.
I started writing the book of this years I didn't know.
And then we had to get Tony van Dungen on
(35:30):
record to say that, to tell the truth and he did,
and Markus went around Dennis and asked round Dennis why
why they did that? And they said, well because that
was Nikki Lauds. So he admitted doing it. He said,
there was Nikkel lads risk car and we didn't want
told me to crash it, so we gave him. So
that's why we did that. And Leo sair I was
(35:53):
I was in touch with him or he got in
touch with me. Years later. He drove the same car
the next day, him and Nick Mason from Pink Floyd.
So they drove the car the next day. But Ron
was worried about me crash niccoll. He wasn't worried about
Leo Sarony. So it's just that's when you learn, you know,
you'll just learn about when you're a race car driver.
(36:15):
You're on your round for a short time, no let's
say anything from maybe ten years we say on average,
but the teams around forever, so everybody knows everybody, so
you have to be very careful what you say. Yeah,
and it's a small, small world as big as it
is very small, there's a lot of interconnection for sure.
So that test was so yes, So I didn't have
(36:37):
false trottle and and they won't showing me the right
time to They didn't they give me a ten point
one and one of my friends was getting me at
nine point six. It's just I didn't even I didn't
think nothing of it because hey, it's McLaren, the best
team in the world. I didn't even think about anything
anything like that. So I was pretty shocked twenty years later.
(36:59):
So so even though even though everything was done, the
time I already did was really really good compared to
try Boots and who went on, by the way to
do very well in Formula One. And if I had
got the real times with the real car, you never know,
somebody might have at least I would have had to
say it. But I will say one thing. I I
(37:20):
drove the worst, one of the worst cars in the
grid in Formula one, the Theodore, and one month later
I drove one of the best cars in Formula one.
So I ended off my Formula One career four seconds
lap difference in not qualifying. I'm being on pull for
the for the British Chran Pries, so at least I
I had something to hang my head on. So I
(37:41):
knew that I at least I knew I could do
it and everybody has seen it. I knew I could
have done Driver in the world. Wow, Dan, I would
have said it. Now, I'm not saying I love it.
In one of the things that I that I did see,
uh so Tony Stuart very close friend. Um an enormous
(38:04):
helmet collection. Tonty. Yes, I think I've seen it on YouTube. Yeah,
you don't have you don't have any of your stuff me? Yeah, no,
I give it. I give everything away. Wow, that sound
one one has. Scott Harrington Actually, uh Ron Burton. Ron
Burton had one of my helmets because I swapped the
(38:27):
hammet for He did me a very beautiful painting of
Aaron Hart Senior and Jeff Gordon on a briefcase and
that's one of a kind. I still have it. So
Ron did that for me, and I give him one
of my hammets, and I think it wasn't Young and
Jack for a long time and then and then Ron
sold everything and one of the things was my hammet
and Calvin Fishes. Calvin did the same thing. He got
(38:49):
a painting from Ron and he give him on one
of his hammets, and Scott Harrington got him from Darren
Jack SNAr Harrington has both their helmets. But I don't care.
I could give it about Hammets, trophies or anything. But
now my son, Jeff, my younger son, he wants stuff
for the grandkids. So now anything I can find, I'll
just I send it over to him. So the trophies
(39:10):
you went back, you know, to your friend's place, you know,
in the in the Jeff, the ones, the ones who
were there left. Now my son Jeff came over from England.
I was over there and there a couple of a
couple of weeks ago, and he went over and he
took them all. So he's got them back in England.
Night show up. Good luck trying to polish him. It's
pretty cool though, when you're pulling him out again. The
(39:31):
documentary that was very very good stuff. So all right,
And I wasn't into show if he's that that much.
And I remember I remember winning a race at Service
and I would show them to the to the fans.
You know, I was just chowing down. So of course
I a trophy down one day to the fan and
it fell on the ground and the broken to pieces,
and everybody saw the booing. Me almost as good as
(39:53):
Kyle Busch busting the guitar of the Sam Bass gave
him Nashville because I just on my old team to
have a piece of it. Oh boy, well, I mean
that's what they do, rock and rulers right there. Right
on that note, we're gonna wrap things up here because
we're done as well. It's been great to have Tommy Interfo.
Thank you. Thanks for making the trip, buddy. I know,
(40:14):
I know schedules are tight, but we appreciate you coming
in here well hearing the stories. If you get a chance,
check them out, both the documentary and the book well
worth to read. You'll have a good time, I promise you.
And that is a character right there that can wheel
a car crash of burn at Yahoo dot com. No, no, no,
that's that's my Sorry, that's my that's my email. Yeah,
(40:39):
that's not your Really, we're not gonna say the other one.
Thanks all right, guys, go to Skinny. Thanks for being
with us here on the Skinny. This episode has been
brought to you by Yoda and General Tires. For the
latest and sunglasses, optical brains, accessories, and apparel. Be sure
(41:02):
to check out batheads dot com Bat's bath Heads with
a Z production facilities provided by Fatheads I Wear Studios.
All rights reserved. The Skinny with Rico and Kenna is
a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Skinny with Rico and Kenna is a production of
I Heart Radio. I'm Tommy Burn and this is the
Skinny from the Fatheads I Wear Studio in Speedway, Indiana.
This is the Skinny brought to you by Toyota and
General Tire. This segment of the Skinny is brought to
(00:21):
you by Toyota once again. Welcome back to the Skinny.
Kim Stout here, ready to have a great time. My
buddy Rico Elmore sitting right alongside Michael Young back there.
Run under controls. So if you can see us and
we're clear, give him props. If we're a little fuzzy,
well that's Michael. Everything looks fuzzy. We've got a great
(00:46):
friend of mine in here today and I had the
pleasure of meeting him a few years ago. He's probably
the fastest driver you've never heard of. There's a number
of drivers that certainly know who he is. He certainly
made a name were himself in his heyday, for sure.
But we're talking about a guy that's good enough to
beat Irton Senna. Talking about a guy that ran quicker
(01:10):
in a championship winning or at least a race winning
Formula One McLaren car Um, we're talking about one of
the best race car drivers in the history of race
car drivers that got just that close but could not
get there. Tommy Burn, Welcome to the show Man. Thank you,
(01:30):
thanks for having me. Yeah. Absolutely, Uh your story. As
I mentioned before, you know, I had a pleasure of
meeting you back at mid Ohio, I guess somewhere along
the way and my son Robert, was racing. I think
we were doing something and it was a Detroit Detroit
one of the Nissans I was. I was driving coaching
and me and you were watching your son drive run
into Really that's right because you said you said the
(01:52):
real drivers will show up here in the rain, we
had a river running through them. Is slow Nissan, I
think it was, but he did good because of the
rain it was, so we picked up a few spots. Yeah, uh,
that's exactly right. So and we became buddies. And of
course I had a chance to read your book in
the meantime. And uh, he has a book out. It's
called Crash and burn It is an absolute worthwhile reading.
(02:16):
I think it's Crashed and Burned, isn't it? Crash and Burned?
Crash and burned. I don't know you wrote it. Well,
the book is crashed and burned b y r n
e D and the documentary is crashing, burned b r N.
So I get confused. You know what I was looking
for that I was looking for it. It was I
was spelling your name. I was doing the same thing.
I was spelling the name. Yeah, exactly. Actually that's how
(02:38):
they would have done it. That documentary was awesome. It's
a it's on Amazon Prime, and I told you we've
done it that way too. But hey, I think it's
three ninety nine on Amazon Prime. You get a kick
of that. I'm supposed to get a kick of it.
But okay, well I did it last night. It was
the Irish guy who did the movie from me said, Tommy,
get that fifty cents. He goes, Tommy, you probably never
(02:59):
get any of this. There's yeah, I get your pen ready,
there's your first marker, there's your first Sorry about the Beeves, Michael,
but the so watching the documentary, it's it's good. It's
very good, very entertaining, but it doesn't go into the
(03:21):
detail clearly because of the time constraints that the book
goes into. Well, the book I I actually wrote the
book myself with Marcus and I would. I started off
writing it by hand because I couldn't type at the time,
years ago. And then I found a right of Marcus,
who's to form any one correspondent, and then I would
I'd write it by hand, I'd send it to him
(03:43):
and then he would pick and choose why he was
going to use, and so I that there are my words.
And then when I started doing the documentary with the
Irish guys, really nice guys. They were trying to get
me to tell the same story. But when I was
in the book, I was either high or drinking. I
(04:04):
just had to get that right, you know moods. I
was on the Arab pin or something in first class,
and I feel, oh, yeah, I'll start. That's how I
did the book. And but so it's very hard to
do the same thing with the movies. So I think
the movie is pretty it's pretty doom and gloom, because
I really, yeah, I may not have made it all
the way to the top monu wise, but I was
(04:24):
always happy. You were always happy. Well that's good because
you certainly do not get that feel exactly like as
you say from the documentary, it's like, you know, it's
it's like your entire life slipped away. Say Angel's Ashes,
you know. I don't know if you ever watched that one,
but that was very depressing Irish movie as well. And
so no, that's actually not me. I'm I'm usually more happy,
but I watched it once. I can't I couldn't watch
(04:47):
it after that. But a lot of people like it,
you know, I mean it's a documentary. The book, the
book is is very entertaining. They can get that? Can
they get that on Amazon? The book is I actually
on my website, my website crash over burn. It's actually
crash burn dot com. B u r M b y
(05:10):
r an. Okay, alright, alright, clarification. Three different spellings for
three different things. I mean I did, so I watched it.
Uh you know, I knew who you were and uh
and uh much respect. I mean, it's just where you
came from. Uh. You know, I worked. I've worked to
(05:34):
get anything I've ever had. My family was hard workers,
you know. But we didn't have the golden pot at
the end of the rainbow. So it took took all
of us that made it to make it make it
that way. But you know, it's uh, it's got to
be difficult. I mean, and you said you watched it
one time, which I totally I totally get. I think
(05:56):
I think I read my book once too. I can't
believe I wrote what I wrote. Yeah, I'm sure that,
I'm sure that that's a good time in itself. But
but yeah, just some of the stuff in the in
the documentary and and uh and uh the highest of
the highs and definitely some lows, lowest of the lows.
So it's a that's a that's a tough gig. Much
(06:18):
respect for for being able to to go through it.
There's some people that can't take themselves back through you
know this stuff. And and uh, I watch I watch
a lot of different music stuff and Johnny cash is
Johnny cashes deal was much of the same where he
went back to where his family the homestead and pretty wild.
(06:39):
So the the I guess the best way to describe
you as just a scrapper from Ireland. I mean, just
a little dude from a little town family with with
you know, modest means at best, and your first race car.
You you literally got your mom to do a second
mortgage or alone on her house. Or she stood behind
(06:59):
you had the first The first first one was fifty
uh pounds of punch at the time, that's what you
call it. Um it was, And I think that wasn't
that hard to get The second one, Yes, she I
walked with her to the bank, and there's five other
kids involved. It's not just it's not just me. I
was just better at, you know, getting things, a getting
(07:21):
what I wanted. So I got it to the bank
and we just I told her what to say, and
she lied to him and told him that we were
building an extension on the house for my sister who
was pregnant and had to move in, you know, and
getting married, and that she did. Um, we got the money.
I think if we could do that today with the bike, yeah,
probably not gonna happen. Got had on and they're like,
(07:43):
we don't care. Tell them they're gonna have to live,
you know. And that was the easy part of the gig.
I mean, once you got the race car, now you
had to perform, and it was just you. Oh yeah,
I crashed the first. I could write a book on
just the first two years of me trying to get something.
We absolutely no idea what we were doing. I had
no car, I had no trailer. I had a lot
(08:04):
of friends. I borrowed everybody, helped me at everybody. Because
I say I'm going to be a driver. I was
going to be a welder in America. That was my goal.
When I was fifteen years of age, I was been
serving my time as an apprentice welder and I used
to watch a lot of John Wayne movies Christmas time
because we only had three channels back in Ireland and
John Wynn was always on the holidays. So for some reason,
(08:27):
I always want to come to America. So my my
mind made up I was going to come to America
as a welder. And a friend of mine went over
and he was making fortunes and you know, so I say, yeah,
that's what I'll do. And then I was going to
be mechanic. Well, the mechanic, it's very simple. I'm very
happy with my life with working on cards. Since I
was tiny, I just loved working on cars. And then
(08:47):
my friend went to a school in Ireland's only one
track in Ireland and he paid fifteen punts for fifteen
laps and then in the race car and Groan pre
just came out of like I just watched the while
before that, and I see in the cars parked out,
said our local hotel. And then I said that I
had no license driving license, So I said, dude, ask
(09:08):
you for a license. He goes, Nope. So I got
a lift up there up to Mandela. It was raining.
I did fifteen laps and I spun seven times out
of the fift in the rain, and that was it.
When I was finished, at the end of it was
only wasn't that long. Then I decided it was gonna
be risk car driver instead of a mechanic welder, and
(09:28):
I was it. I just full focus from that moment, dawn,
and for some other reason, I just thought that I
was the best drive in the world. Don't ask me
where he came from. I have no idea. My mom
didn't start driving still she was forty, and my dad
never drove at all, So I have no idea where
the talent came from, where anything came from. But that's
(09:49):
what happened with me, and and I didn't have a hero,
So I never had any heroes in racing because I
wasn't going to be a risk car driver. I didn't
watch and you know, I just started all this nineteen
seventy six, and that which didn't help me when I
went to drive him, because you know, everybody says, so
you know who's you're who's your hero? And I go
(10:10):
me so I said, I think that's modest, probably probably
a lots of stuff that you know, if you you
know you, there's other ways of going too bad, I guess.
But my biggest problem is I'm pretty honest, and I
have a very hard time. I'm not telling the truth well.
And I think if you know, a lot of people
will take that and they'll put a twist on it
(10:30):
that he was. He was cocky, he was arrogant. But
knowing you, I only know you mildly if you will,
but knowing you and your personality, I could see you
saying I'm my hero with a chuckle, in a lighthearted way,
not in a cocky are and like, you know, I
am the man, not that way, you know, to have
a little bit of fun with yourself, And yeah, I don't.
(10:52):
Maybe maybe not, but maybe at the time I actually did,
I was my hero. But here, I mean, the first
part of it is believing in yourself off right, That's
like I started the eye Work company. I knew how
to put them on exactly. Yeah, I I didn't know
anything past that. I mean, if if if, if, if
a team manager comes to you and wants to give
(11:12):
you a job, which doesn't happen that often and racy,
and he says, so, tomm me, how do you think
do you think you're a pretty good driver? And if
I answered, well, thank you, I'm I'm not I'm not bad.
I think I'll think I'll get I think I might
get better. So well, so he's gonna hire you? Or
then you said you're pretty good driving, yet best drive
(11:33):
in the world. Then you were yeah, there you go again.
I was gonna say the worst word than that. And
so you know, you're you're doomed if you do or
if you don't. You know, so um yeah, definitely yeah.
I think the good guys do answer that way and
a firm but of course they do now more than ever.
(11:54):
Right and now you know now right, but now now,
I mean, you know, you get you know, you get
these drivers out there that start talking like that, and
I was like, yeah, I like his attitude. Then they're like, oh,
what is he talking about? You know, That's kind of
what I was watching this and I was like, well,
how that's how they talk all the time now, I mean,
you know, and and uh and a lot worse and
(12:17):
a lot further so. But it's, uh, it's interesting seeing
how how that progression and just people didn't have the
temperament for it. You know, when was the last time
somebody called your foot and a half? Last two weeks ago? Oh? Really? Yeah?
Something just walking by and just shouted up because not
(12:39):
that many people know the funding half story funding footing
a half his When I was an apprentice welder, I
was fifteen years the vidge and my the guy was
working for it because I was so I was really small,
I mean a small enough, but I was fifteen. I
didn't spread until I was like seventeen or eighteen, so
I went to like four ft no, five ft six
(13:01):
or whatever. But so he started calling me foot in half.
And I was never there. I was never where supposed
to be. I was always all screwing around or doing
something or just doing stuff I wasn't supposed to be
doing all. He was just screaming out thought, naha funna.
And so that's that was my nickname, and that at
that time was half. We'll take a quick break on
(13:22):
that note, and we'll be right back with more from
Conny Burn. This segment of the Skinny is brought to
you by General Tire. It's more than just a slogan.
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Welcome back to the Skinny Way of Tommy Byrne and
the studio with us here and uh great to have
him where. This a story is second to none, still
(14:03):
heavily involved by the way in the industry, you just
same from time to time. I happened to bump into
him at the twenty four hours of Daytona. It's good
to see you down there. Um as we're talking about
your story, working your working your way up through I
wanna I gotta mention a couple of different things both
in the documentary and in the book. But you were
I mentioned at the top of the show, you were
(14:24):
faster than I written, Senate Nikki Lauda. And the reason
I used those two is because there's some proof there.
We can not really this anything. I never got to
race against him, Oh you didn't. I thought he was
a teammate that you raced. You know, he was the
same team as me. I was a year ahead of him.
He was done. He was done one to me. The
only time I ever raced against there and Senate was
(14:45):
and we did a risk and in Formula three and
nineteen I think it was three. I won the championship
year before and he wanted in the Formula four to
tis and and then I was doing European Forma three
and he was doing bridges for him, and we're in
the same race together. I qualified six. Martin Brundon was
a second, The sender was first, she crashed off. I
finished second, that's it. And then then in Macau he
(15:08):
was in a role that was an answer and the
court he wanted to race over there and I was third.
So we never got We never did get back the
way that I wanted to one day. And as far
as the Test, Nikolade wasn't there, and Nikkola I drove
Nikolad his car. He was there the week before and
it was half it wasn't exactly dry, so that wouldn't
be fair. But Terry Bootson was the one that was
(15:29):
there exactly. I got out of the car that he
could out of the car and I got in, so
that that was the one he was and that was
apples Apple. So yeah, you can say it, but again
I can't tell. I can't tell a lie. So Nicki
wasn't there, but um, but the car was definitely. We
heard that she raised to his to his tires on
(15:50):
his car and you wont no that that that that's
that's in the book. But I used to get the
cars for all the Brazilians because I worked with Ralph
Firm and I drove for Ralph Firm and Van Demon
and I had friends in London with US car dealerships,
so I would get the car for Ralph too. I
(16:11):
just sell the Brazilian and give to them. So I
got one for Senna. His name was I hurting the
silver at the time, and so I got a call
and Ralph give it to him and actually send it.
Never paid for the car, so he never did. So
he Ralph give him a basically a road call for free.
And then was Senna retired at the end of that year,
and I drove his car in the in the Formula
fourth festival. He retired for racing, and he'd have the
(16:33):
car there and I just never Ralph never got to
me but taking it back or selling it or whatever.
He just left it there. And I had the same
type car and I get a puncture, so instead of
getting the puncture figs, I just take it off. The
card was sitting there and so I did that a
couple of times. So now it looks like because my
car was a sport model, so on the car sitting
there saying his car supposed the times, but not really
(16:55):
send because he never paid for it and he's not
coming back any so it what's the matter. So and
so he did come back. He came up with that
town to anybody, and I was in the office and
he came in. He took one knock at his car
with all the tires were flat on it and the
different colors and everything, and that he came in and
just started screaming and chatting at me, and he just
lost his mind. Yeah, he wanted to be the shoot
(17:16):
out and for you know, for fucking borrowing. We didn't
even belong to him or cars, so he um. So
he was very angry, and most likely he was angry
because when he retired he was driving for me for
won two championships, but for me, for his festival was
(17:37):
the most the most important rays that manufacturer could win.
And Route was a manufacturer, and he asked me, Tommy Ken,
you can you send it? Just left me, you know,
high and dry, can you win the race? I just
wanted to form met four two Tasan championships, the European
one on the British one, and I said, sure, that
would send his car and that special there was a
(17:58):
special engine that he used to get that race, and
whoever was leading the championship minister would give them what's
called it was called Patch super engine, and everybody that
won the festival got the engine and it was like
probably half a second lap quicker than the other one.
So I said, was sending his car on that engine,
no problem? And and I did. I won all four
(18:18):
races and won the festival and got a free Formula
three ride the next week for from Barbara and then
the guy I drove for Murray Taylor. He was so
impressed that he got got the money for me, raced
by race for the next year, so I send it.
Didn't retire at that time, and I would never have
won the I've finished second the year before in the
(18:40):
festival and meant nothing. Robert and Marina want it, and
then that changed everything. Even after winning four championships, I
had nothing. I wasn't going anywhere until I won for
me FOURD Festival and then bomb that got me Formula
three and and then I did Formula One for those
couple of races at the same time as I was
doing Formula three, because that's the same of store. That's
(19:00):
kind of what happened here. He was. He was pissed
and obviously I want in his car. And the car
number was sixty. Pretty amazing. Is that important? I don't
know how you even said that, but because I didn't
find out till years later, I just did. Somebody you know,
sent me a picture of the car, and I've just
seen the number and I didn't know what it was
at the time. When I was driving it. I saw
(19:21):
the car that you jumped in the black was that
a player's car that you ran in the documentary. That
are you talking about the Formula one car? I think so, yeah,
the Nikki lad car. It was a Malburry car. There
was a black car recent not not back. Oh yeah
(19:41):
that was that was Jim just an Arrow, my sponsor,
Jim McGuire. That was his Formula three car and he
had he had depended like kimmy racking and Formula one
car at the time. That's what that was a Formula
three car at mid Ohio. That's cool ride. Yeah, it's
just again like in the in the my documentary, Um,
(20:02):
you see me driving my car and I got out
of the car, you know, my former three car. I
was walking because we had acted a little bit, and
I'm walking past with my friend going, hey, look at that.
Here's my car over there, even though we did it
ten times, you know, walked back and forth. He goes, oh, yeah,
I look at that. So we walked over and started
looking at it, and then the owner goes, do you
want to drive it? I said yeah, sure, So then
(20:22):
I get into it and then we drove and I
didn't want to drive it because of a piece. There
you go again, So I get I get into the car,
and I the cameras around me taking a picture of me,
and then I drove tuck off, drove off in the
wrong gear, second gear instead of first, and the owner's gone,
I hope he doesn't mess with clutch up. So I
took off around the track and then you see then
(20:44):
the camera pans to me driving around the track at
Brand's hatch, and I didn't drive the call all on
the track. I drove the car around the corner and
the guys came running over, the director and the producer
and stuff, and and give me a bottle of water
and I threw the water in and run my head
and everything, which is my idea because for sweat. And
then they drove right back to where when I started from.
(21:06):
And then I tuck my hammet off and all the
sweat and every going, Wow, that was the best. That
was just some Yeah, that was so much, so much fun.
Never drove call it all right, Yeah, yeah you had me,
so you did well. It was a great acting. What
was the story where I think you were gonna have
(21:26):
a test? I think you were having a test. Maybe
they had somebody fast inside of the car. Then they
were going they told you they were going to make
some changes to the car, maybe move the pedals for
you or something like that. And I might be getting
two different stories confused here, but at some point you
decided I'm not going to drive today. I went to
the bar, had a few drinks, and then all of
a sudden I got a phone call and they wanted
(21:47):
me to come back. Yeah, that was That was Dijon,
I think it was their niece. And we had to
qualify for the Monaco for me A three rays and
dum and I raised here before I finished third and
fourth I think before in the former three of Monica.
But for some reason, and there's so many cars, I
had to pre qualify or something like that. So I
was driving for Anson, Gary Anderson, and who was Anson
(22:10):
Formula one Eddie. Jordan's designed the Formula one car for
Eddie and the Stewart Formula one car. So it rained
and it was raining so bad the track was flooded,
so it was canceled. So we all went down to
a local French cafe. Me and Gary were behind the
contra teaching them how to make real Irish coffees, So
we drank a lot of Irish coffees. The whole team
(22:33):
was there was me and Gary and the mechanics, so
we had more than one, probably like six or seven,
maybe ten. And the next thing is we got word
that cogresses back on again, so you no, you know,
it wasn't intentional, but you know, we all had to
go back to the track and I think I started
last or something for whatever reason, and I got up
(22:55):
to six, which was good enough to qualify for the
race for the Monica and carry. Anderson said me, is it.
I have no idea how you drove that down because
I couldn't even see him coming because he was showing
me to bid board and he was so drunky, couldn't
see me coming. It's just just note a story, but
it's true. That's what happened. So it's interesting. You we
(23:18):
were talking about Connor earlier and one of the things
that we asked him when he was here. One of
the things we asked him earlier when he was here
or when he was in the studio, and I know,
I'm we've sponsored it for a long time. Could do
a great guy. He's like, he's like, we asked him
if there was any era that he could have ran,
(23:42):
you know, with any car what would have been. He's like, oh,
early two thousand's. He's like these guys when they would
have you know, they would get down at the track,
they would get on a jet. They were in the
Bahamas and he was talking about Checkter and you know
Dixon back of the day, way before he was married,
and a bunch of these other guys, Weldon and all
(24:04):
of them, and it was just interesting to hear him,
hear him talk about it. And I actually met Pastrana
through through Connors. Yeah, and uh we were uh we
had sponsored Connors truck race out at out at Vegas,
not the one where he tried to plow the wall
(24:24):
down or anything, but the the other truck race. But
it was, it was It was great and Travis just
an amazing guy. But Connor, he he he's one about
having fun and he's a he's a really nice guy.
I'm glad that I'm glad he got Seve a deal
for this year because he's a I like him. I
(24:44):
think a full year with A with A with the
same team, and I think he's got a pretty good
engineer and a pretty good team around him, you know,
with Eddie and those guys. I think that I think
he could have an opportunity. And of course, you know
when Pastrana was on we We're you know, we are
are Sweet for Fatheads is in turn two and you
(25:06):
know Connor's leading the race. You know, we're part of
this deal. We're sitting there and like everybody in the suite,
I'm like, be quiet, like I'm watching it on TV
so I can keep button. You don't watching all of it, right,
that's probably hammer too, but that's beside the point. But
I'm sitting there watching it and this tire comes out
(25:28):
of the sky and I'm like, did you see when Connor,
when when Graham Rayhall hit the wall, the tire blows off,
goes goes flying. Any any idea how high that was?
I mean literally it was straight up. Connors driving around
(25:50):
just smokes the front end of it. That's the That's
the look at the Irish. We don't that's all, thank you.
The look at the Irish is that I don't. I
don't think I got much luck, you know. I mean,
it's crazy. But going back to the IndyCar O'Connor and
it's the most competitive series in the world and there's
(26:10):
no doubt about it. The whole field. Sometimes it's covered
by one second. It's just he's just just think about
every single thing has to go right, did you get
close to the found they're all they're all good drivers.
Not It's not like, you know, there's a bunch of winkers.
It is interesting, you know, when the I r L
started and you know, I don't know all the all
(26:30):
the stuff that went on between cart and in you
know how all that split up, and you know, everybody's
got their own side of it. But at the end
of the day, you know, the Hall and George family said,
you know, this is the way we want to do it,
and quite frankly, they had the money to do it
the way they wanted to do it, which is generally
(26:52):
the way things work. Well. When they first started, I
mean you know, there were there were some teams that
were in there that oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, definitely shouldn't
have been out there. That was the time to win Indy,
if you have any chance of all the winning it
with Yeah, yeah, it was when it was any It
was when it was easy to win. Would have been
probably round about that time. Easy a right right now,
(27:13):
it's it's just crazy, al right, guys, We're gonna take
a quick breakcre one more time. We'll be right back
with more from Tommy burn This segment of the Skinny
is brought to you by Toyota. Welcome back to the Skinny.
Kim Stanton, Rico Elmore sitting alongside, and we have Tommy
Burne who's joined us here in the studio. Quick note,
(27:35):
side note that man signed my competition license off. Yeah,
the ohile he he was my instructor and went through
all the sessions and uh yep, he signed her off.
At the end of the day, I must say I've
been working at mid Ohio. Probably not because I was
done in Mexico. Obviously we don't have time to go
through all of it. But if anybody wants to find out,
(27:56):
going off to check out the documentary and crash and Burned.
Yeah b U, R, M, Y R and D for
the book or by r any or or burn. Just
try it both ways. You are in ead. Just think
of a way to spell burn and give her a
try and you get it. You get something, You get
(28:17):
it one way or the other. Okay, now I've lost
my train in the talk talk to text that will
come back. We were telling you were you brought up Mexico,
so let's just let's just stay in. It was done
in Mexico, and I was just, you know, it's I
should have quit ten years earlier. You know, I've got
a real job. But you keep you your hanging for
one more year, one more year, because you know there's
always a chance of getting you know, a couple of
(28:38):
hundred grand or maybe even better than that. So I
just waited. I just hung on. And because they didn't
any lights, and I want, I want a bunch of
racing any lights. I started again when I came to America,
and then I was kind of getting to a low ebb.
And then I went to Mexico to sell a helmet
and then I end up meeting some crazy people down there,
and I got to drive down there, and I raised
down there, and it was sponsored by Quicker Said and
(29:00):
Yellow Pages. It was called Sectional Maria Yellow Pages and
Corona and so Quaker State Corona and Yellow Pages, and
it was driving Formula two and Formula three. And I
was getting paid. I was getting paid cash because I
said I needed cash because I didn't trust the Mexicans
to pay me, because I just didn't. So I was
(29:21):
getting nine thou nine cash sent to me by FedEx,
which is very dangerous. That was that was the first
time I got a center because I wasn't gonna go
down there with getting the money, and so that was
sent to me the first time, and then after that
I was bringing back nine to use because they don't check,
(29:41):
you know, if it's ten thou exactly. So um so
if anybody stopped, they just think it was a drug dealer,
but I wasn't. But it was partly in a lot
down in Mexico, and I met a guy called Orto.
He's in the boat and he helped my team. A
lot great people down there under they're racing crazy. I
mean there are for me one you think politics have
(30:03):
had and formula one. Mexico's worse. So I was kind
of getting a lot of party and too much party.
Any time of the day, like one o'clock in the day,
I could pick my phone up by an apartment down
there in Zona Rosa. I could pick my phone up
one o'clock, call any of ten people and just party
for the rest of the day and then maybe into
the night. And so in the end there was a
(30:24):
lot of girls involved too, and you know, nakedness and
just craziness and or show. My friend for some reason
just went crazy one night and stars shooting not me, um,
and that he missed and I and I had to
hide a couple of girls because you know, they we're
running around naked, and then the guns ride and that
(30:47):
they were all hiding behind me. So I then got
the gun off him, and I and I got the
bullets out of it and give him a gun back.
I give him the gunback with no bullets, and then
I hid myself in the room. And then next morning
he usually forgot about it, you know, the next day
he would forget about his craziness. And then the next
day he came at six o'clock in the morning knocking
(31:08):
on my door looking for the bullets. So I said,
there's only one reason he wants to bullets. It was
the trend shoot me again. So um, I went, I
snuck out, snuck out of there. I got a taxi
across the other side of Mexico City to my team
owner and told him, I said, this guy is he's crazy,
that they're want to kill kill me or kill somebody
else or kill himself. But I probably need to need
(31:29):
to get out of here now. So I left. I
went back to Florida and then and I talked to
Cavin Fish. I actually got me a job, I said, Cavin,
I need to get I need to get something going here.
He was chiefly struck the midd Ohio. He got me
a job there, and now I've been there. I've been
there ever since. But sometimes I did a hundred and
fifty days a year. Last year I did like thirty
(31:52):
and then so I'm I've been at mid Ohio lots
and knots and the orchard guy that that tried to
shoot me, he was dead five days later. He drowned
in the swimming pool in mixed and he was very,
very wealthy, and so I just it was just time
to move on, you know, man, man, some crazy times.
(32:12):
How long how long time frame wise did you compete
down there in Mexico with two years? Two years? So
so there was a fair amount of good times down there. Yeah, yeah,
two years. I want I only want a couple of races,
So it's still just yeah, just crazy stuff. You still
have to have the car. If you haven't got the car,
you're not gonna win. You know, you have to have
good cars because there's a decent driver. Allenberg was down
(32:34):
there and Rod McLeod he worked for Ron worked for
a time years ago. Rod, he's a good drive, big
driver coach now for fer Our Challenge. Now. It was
very competitive Inople and every day there's something in the
paper and I was X for me one driver, so
they you know, so I could you know, I didn't
have any any time, any hard time partying anywhere. So
(32:58):
after the after that test with McClure, and you knew
you were laid down a time, um, but you didn't
get the gig. I was never gonna I was never
going to. I was never going to get a gig.
Before I went there, I knew that I had no drive,
but I still was going to get the drive the
best car in Formula one and then and I was
(33:18):
definitely telling my old team and for formerly one to
come and watch me because they were telling me I
couldn't drive and them, so I said, will come watch
me when I do the mc claren test, because that's
paid for by Marlborough. By Marlborough because I won the
British Former three championships, So the first three drivers get
a test in the in the McLaren that happens every year.
So I already run around down this before all this
(33:41):
and talked to him. There was no drives and there
was everybody was signed up. There was nothing available. No
matter what I did, I wasn't going to make any difference.
And a couple of years later then there was test
drives available and everything else, so things open up and change,
but right at that time, there was nothing. There was
nothing happening. Now I did go pretty quick, and it
(34:02):
turns out I didn't have a great car because they
they didn't give me full of gas. And that was
Tony van Dungen, Tony, if you're listening, So that was
kind of that was the story that I was talking about.
Were they They said they were going to make some
change it, but Tony slowed the car down. Well, when
I went, we all everybody goes to McClaren. He gets
fitted like a month before you drive the car, very professionally.
(34:25):
Remember they were not probably the number one team, one
of the top four teams in the in the world.
So we all went and we got fitted at different times,
very well done. So whenever Terry boots and got out
of the car and I got in the change the
pedals for me and I was twenty years later, I
was riding around I think it was called Lake and
I met Tony van Dungan who was a mechanic that day,
(34:46):
him and and Riley and Scott Scott Mark Scott was
the other mechanic. And he said, hey, Tommy, how are
you doing. I haven't seen it for twenty years. How's
it going? What are you doing? That's well, I'm doing,
there's there's doing some driver coach and worked in Middle Ohio,
web case maybe, and he said, he said, you know, man,
you're so fast that day and you weren't even he
didn't even have the best car as well. I had
(35:08):
the same card to Terrie Boots and got out of
and I can enter. He goes, yeah, but we were
told not to give you full throttle when you get
into it. I just went, why was that? He goes,
somebody didn't want you to go fast? I guess, And
that kind of how many years later, twenty years later
this when I this one, I was writing the book.
I started writing the book of this years I didn't know.
And then we had to get Tony van Dungen on
(35:30):
record to say that, to tell the truth and he did,
and Markus went around Dennis and asked round Dennis why
why they did that? And they said, well because that
was Nikki Lauds. So he admitted doing it. He said,
there was Nikkel lads risk car and we didn't want
told me to crash it, so we gave him. So
that's why we did that. And Leo sair I was
(35:53):
I was in touch with him or he got in
touch with me. Years later. He drove the same car
the next day, him and Nick Mason from Pink Floyd.
So they drove the car the next day. But Ron
was worried about me crash niccoll. He wasn't worried about
Leo Sarony. So it's just that's when you learn, you know,
you'll just learn about when you're a race car driver.
(36:15):
You're on your round for a short time, no let's
say anything from maybe ten years we say on average,
but the teams around forever, so everybody knows everybody, so
you have to be very careful what you say. Yeah,
and it's a small, small world as big as it
is very small, there's a lot of interconnection for sure.
So that test was so yes, So I didn't have
(36:37):
false trottle and and they won't showing me the right
time to They didn't they give me a ten point
one and one of my friends was getting me at
nine point six. It's just I didn't even I didn't
think nothing of it because hey, it's McLaren, the best
team in the world. I didn't even think about anything
anything like that. So I was pretty shocked twenty years later.
(36:59):
So so even though even though everything was done, the
time I already did was really really good compared to
try Boots and who went on, by the way to
do very well in Formula One. And if I had
got the real times with the real car, you never know,
somebody might have at least I would have had to
say it. But I will say one thing. I I
(37:20):
drove the worst, one of the worst cars in the
grid in Formula one, the Theodore, and one month later
I drove one of the best cars in Formula one.
So I ended off my Formula One career four seconds
lap difference in not qualifying. I'm being on pull for
the for the British Chran Pries, so at least I
I had something to hang my head on. So I
(37:41):
knew that I at least I knew I could do
it and everybody has seen it. I knew I could
have done Driver in the world. Wow, Dan, I would
have said it. Now, I'm not saying I love it.
In one of the things that I that I did see,
uh so Tony Stuart very close friend. Um an enormous
(38:04):
helmet collection. Tonty. Yes, I think I've seen it on YouTube. Yeah,
you don't have you don't have any of your stuff me? Yeah, no,
I give it. I give everything away. Wow, that sound
one one has. Scott Harrington Actually, uh Ron Burton. Ron
Burton had one of my helmets because I swapped the
(38:27):
hammet for He did me a very beautiful painting of
Aaron Hart Senior and Jeff Gordon on a briefcase and
that's one of a kind. I still have it. So
Ron did that for me, and I give him one
of my hammets, and I think it wasn't Young and
Jack for a long time and then and then Ron
sold everything and one of the things was my hammet
and Calvin Fishes. Calvin did the same thing. He got
(38:49):
a painting from Ron and he give him on one
of his hammets, and Scott Harrington got him from Darren
Jack SNAr Harrington has both their helmets. But I don't care.
I could give it about Hammets, trophies or anything. But
now my son, Jeff, my younger son, he wants stuff
for the grandkids. So now anything I can find, I'll
just I send it over to him. So the trophies
(39:10):
you went back, you know, to your friend's place, you know,
in the in the Jeff, the ones, the ones who
were there left. Now my son Jeff came over from England.
I was over there and there a couple of a
couple of weeks ago, and he went over and he
took them all. So he's got them back in England.
Night show up. Good luck trying to polish him. It's
pretty cool though, when you're pulling him out again. The
(39:31):
documentary that was very very good stuff. So all right,
And I wasn't into show if he's that that much.
And I remember I remember winning a race at Service
and I would show them to the to the fans.
You know, I was just chowing down. So of course
I a trophy down one day to the fan and
it fell on the ground and the broken to pieces,
and everybody saw the booing. Me almost as good as
(39:53):
Kyle Busch busting the guitar of the Sam Bass gave
him Nashville because I just on my old team to
have a piece of it. Oh boy, well, I mean
that's what they do, rock and rulers right there. Right
on that note, we're gonna wrap things up here because
we're done as well. It's been great to have Tommy Interfo.
Thank you. Thanks for making the trip, buddy. I know,
(40:14):
I know schedules are tight, but we appreciate you coming
in here well hearing the stories. If you get a chance,
check them out, both the documentary and the book well
worth to read. You'll have a good time, I promise you.
And that is a character right there that can wheel
a car crash of burn at Yahoo dot com. No, no, no,
that's that's my Sorry, that's my that's my email. Yeah,
(40:39):
that's not your Really, we're not gonna say the other one.
Thanks all right, guys, go to Skinny. Thanks for being
with us here on the Skinny. This episode has been
brought to you by Yoda and General Tires. For the
latest and sunglasses, optical brains, accessories, and apparel. Be sure
(41:02):
to check out batheads dot com Bat's bath Heads with
a Z production facilities provided by Fatheads I Wear Studios.
All rights reserved. The Skinny with Rico and Kenna is
a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from
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