December 4, 2024 • 31 mins
Holidays can be a time of joy, family, and fun—but they can also throw a wrench into your child’s sleep routine. Whether it’s late-night celebrations, travel to visit relatives, or adjusting to time zone changes, holiday sleep disruptions are a challenge for many parents. But don’t worry—we’ve got you covered.
In this episode of The Sleep Edit, Arielle Greenleaf and Dr. Craig Canapari discuss practical strategies for navigating holiday sleep challenges for children of all ages. From tips for maintaining flexibility while traveling, to handling sugar-fueled energy spikes and keeping routines intact, this conversation is packed with actionable advice to help your family enjoy the season while staying (relatively) well-rested. They’ll even share some pro tips, like the ultimate New Year’s Eve bedtime trick you won’t want to miss.
Remember: holiday sleep doesn’t have to be perfect—it just has to work for you and your family. So, give yourself some grace, enjoy the cookies, and focus on the quality of your time together.
Links
- Dr. Canapari's guide to Vacation "Sleep"
- Studies on sugar consumption and sleep
- Study of 287 children ages 8-12 showing no association between sugar and sleep or behavioral change
- Study of 2600 children aged 6-12 showing that more sugar consumption was associated with decreased sleep duration
- Metanalysis of studies of young children 0-5 showing worse diet and higher sugar intake were associated with lower sleep quality
Timestamps
- 00:00 Introduction and Disclaimer
- 01:13 Navigating Holiday Sleep Challenges
- 03:18 Travel Tips for Parents
- 06:04 Managing Sleep in Different Environments
- 13:30 Handling Naps and Bedtime During Holidays
- 22:19 Dealing with Food and Sugar
- 28:50 Final Tips and Holiday Wishes
- 30:53 Conclusion and Resources
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Craig Canapari MD (00:02):
Welcome to the Sleep Edit, a podcast devoted to helping
tired kids and parents sleep better.
We focus on actionable evidence-basedsleep advice, so everyone in your
home can sleep through the night.
Now, a quick disclaimer, this podcastis for general informational purposes
only and does not constitute thepractice of medicine, nursing, or
other professional healthcare services,including the giving of medical advice.
(00:27):
No doctor patient relationship is formed.
The use of this information andthe materials linked to this
podcast and any associated videocontent are at the user's own risk.
The content on the show is not intendedto be a substitute for professional
medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Users should not disregard ordelay obtaining medical help for
(00:50):
any medical condition they have.
Or that their children may have,they should seek the assistance
of their healthcare professionalsfor any such conditions.
Nothing stated here reflectsthe views of our employers or
the employees of our guests.
Enjoy the show.
Okay.
Arielle Greenleaf (01:17):
And I'm Ariel Greenleaf.
Craig Canapari MD (01:20):
We thought since it is closing in on the end of the
year, we would talk about navigatingholiday sleep challenges for parents
and children, because this isn't a timeof year associated with the best sleep.
Arielle Greenleaf (01:31):
No.
Craig Canapari MD (01:34):
If there's a through line for this, I'd say, you
know, we may get in the weeds a littlebit here, but the main thing is.
It's not gonna be perfect.
That's okay.
Enjoy your time with yourfriends and family and you can
sort it all out in January.
It's really gonna be okay.
Arielle Greenleaf (01:48):
Yeah, I totally agree.
I remember as a new parent, I had aSeptember baby, so I had, a two and a
half month old or something like that, andI got a memory from 10 years ago saying
what does one do to keep an infant onschedule During the holidays she goes to
(02:08):
bed between seven and eight every night.
I don't know how that's gonna be possibleif I have a house full of people,
but, it was definitely a tough year.
But then a year later I thoughtthe holidays were always gonna
be sleepless and horrible.
a year later everything was fine.
sometimes it's roughand then it gets better.
Craig Canapari MD (02:24):
I think if it's your first child and if it's
a really young infant, it feelstotally overwhelming, right?
Arielle Greenleaf (02:32):
Yeah.
I think that's the biggest thing just try.
I think you gave really good advice.
we can just stop the show now.
Just enjoy the holidays.
Craig Canapari MD (02:40):
Enjoy the holidays as best you can.
you have to extend yourself alittle bit of grace, You're gonna
be dealing with grandparents andaunts and uncles who are really
excited to spend time with the baby.
for me, as we were just talking aboutbefore the show, a little bit older than
Arielle, my parents would often applythe best seventies parenting technique
and knowledge to, you know, and, and notunderstand why we are doing things in a
(03:03):
certain way, Parenting has changed and theway we think about problems have changed.
we weren't gonna be sitting around,smoking cigarettes and drinking,
vodka tonics and playing pinochle withthe neighbors, during the holidays.
Not that my parents do thatanymore either, but that's what
it was like when I was a kid.
let's break it down by thechallenges, parents can face.
one is just.
(03:23):
Travel, right?
This may be the first timeyou are taking your child and
spending the night somewhere else.
if you had a baby in September or August,this might be the first time you're
leaving the cocoon of your home where,you know, you may be still struggling
with your child's sleep, but at least youhave more control over what's happening.
Arielle Greenleaf (03:45):
Yeah, I, I.
Actually working with someone right nowwhose son just doing remarkably well.
I mean a toddler who had neverslept through the night and she had
attempted sleep training severaltimes and it just, wasn't working.
However, she needed to get outof the house and go see family
and she said, okay, let's justgive it a try and do a nap at.
(04:08):
At my sister's house, let's do auntie nap.
And it did not go that well.
I think that if your children aresleeping well at home and they go
down easily and then you travel andsuddenly they don't, you go back to
giving yourself grace and understandingthat this is an exciting time for them
(04:28):
too, even if they're young and theycan't express that, and offering help.
It's not gonna like undo anysleep training you've done or
any good habits you've created.
It's just helping your baby orchild get the rest they need so
that you can all have a good time.
Craig Canapari MD (04:45):
parents become very rigid about routines and, the
perfect environmental settings.
Those are also the kids that maybehave a little bit less flexibility.
I remember I had close friends, beforeI had kids their kid was 15 months old
and we would play Mario party and theirkid would sleep on a cushion on the
floor that kid could sleep anywhere.
(05:07):
They weren't stressed about this.
If you struggled with your child'ssleep, you probably have a little bit of.
You're still carrying a littlebit of worry, that you're going to
derail everything that you've done.
the fact is these holiday trips,often are pretty short trips, right?
Like a couple of nights of screwy sleep atyour in-laws Is not going to destroy your
(05:29):
kid's sleep for the next three months.
You just have to go back to the routinesthat got you to a place of success.
we were talking a little bitabout, time zones and stuff.
it kind of depends, right?
that's a special case.
Arielle Greenleaf (05:42):
Mm-Hmm.
Craig Canapari MD (05:42):
But some families will be flying, some families
are gonna be driving, some peopleare gonna have people visiting.
what do you think parents should do?
Hopefully what this is gonnadrop, before Thanksgiving, at
least before the winter holidays.
anything parents should be doing.
A week or two before they travel.
Arielle Greenleaf (06:02):
It's a good question.
I think going back to what you weresaying about people that have, struggled
with their child's sleep and they'vedone a lot of work to get their
child in a good place, you can alwayspractice putting your child in a pack
and play or seeing how they nap there.
If you are, Going to a differenttime zone, you can start to try to
(06:24):
shift the schedule, but ultimately,I really feel like you just have to
go with the flow when you get there.
I don't feel that there's aton of stuff that you should
be doing in preparation for it,
Creates more anxiety.
But some things that you can think aboutare when you get to your destination, what
is the sleeping space going to look like?
Are you going to have an, is your childgonna have their own sleeping space?
(06:47):
Are you gonna be sharing a room together?
are you in a hotel room?
Are you at someone's home?
Can we control?
Let's bring the white noise machine.
Let's bring, blackout shades.
They have travel blackoutshades, or, if you're in a hotel
room, that's not a problem.
if you have a toddler who likes to havea nightlight, bring the nightlight,
(07:07):
bring, the lovey that your toddler likes.
try to make it comfortable for themand recreate a similar situation
as they would have at home.
my clients have alwaysgotten very creative.
if staying anywhere where they're supposedto room share with their child, and
they're nervous because the child cansee them and they're overstimulated.
They have often used bathrooms andclosets as alternative sleep spaces.
(07:34):
Just during that temporary periodso that the child can have their own
space and isn't, waking up and seeingmom and dad there and wanting to get
into bed with them being creativeis good, but also, getting into the
mindset that you need to be flexibleand you're gonna get through it.
And the ultimate goal is just totry to keep your child well rested.
Whether that means holding themor, passing 'em off to grandma
(07:58):
halfway through the night.
Craig Canapari MD (08:00):
I think where your kids sleep, creativity,
extends to older kids too.
what struck me was my, wife's aunt anduncle have a beach place in Long Island.
So everybody would go and we'd kindof, if we could, it's great to match up
the kids who are on similar schedules.
even if you could cohort peopletogether in a sleeping environment,
(08:22):
like there was, a big closet.
two of the younger kids who werenot infants Were in a little closet
together they were both early risers,so that was great because they
didn't get the non early risers up.
and it is funny too, I think theflip side is parents are worried
about it, but also, sometimes.
Other people have to be alittle bit flexible too, right?
Like, if you are the first person withsmall children and you go to stay with
(08:43):
your brother and his wife or something,and they're used to sleeping on noon
on the weekends, I mean, let me sellyou, they're also gonna be disappointed
in your child's sleeping habits.
Christmas morning might happen a littlebit earlier than they were expecting.
Arielle Greenleaf (08:55):
you're not looking at brunch.
You're looking at early morning.
Craig Canapari MD (09:00):
Brunch is not a thing that, people with small children have.
I remember Christmas morning we usedto, now I live fairly close to my
folks, but we used to come down andmy parents had a Keurig my dad would
get the good coffee, but they'd makeindividual things with a Keurig.
it would be like six in the morning,and my dad would be just Working on this
(09:21):
machine, for what felt like 20 minutesto produce four adult size cup of coffee.
And I was just dying.
And I'm like, my God dad,can you move this along?
I love you, God are great.
But next time what I would'vedone is front my own coffee maker.
Arielle Greenleaf (09:39):
There you go.
Craig Canapari MD (09:40):
It would actually be able to produce a whole pot of
coffee, which is, the start of whatyou need on those early mornings you
know, something that I am interested inbecause I think it would've been great
for my kids who are, especially onekid was a light sensitive early riser.
these sort of, Sleep pods kind ofthings, that some parents ask me about.
Arielle Greenleaf (10:01):
I mean, in theory, they're great.
I don't know.
If they're necessarily safe.
I think I'd have to look into that more.
But, I think anything that can give achild their own space and have it dark.
'cause children are sensitive to lightand the sun is coming up earlier.
So any way to sort of make them feel,you know, and you have to also remember
(10:26):
that young children in their cribsfeel safe in that enclosed space.
making sure they don't feelvulnerable can be really helpful.
I don't 100% know the safety factsaround them and I didn't have
one when Ashley was an infant.
So in theory, they look amazing.
Craig Canapari MD (10:45):
Well, I think this is a good point.
If you're traveling with an infant,you need to make sure that you
have a safe sleep environment.
Cribs can be rented in cities and towns.
If you're staying in ahotel, you can get them.
Make sure that your child is sleepingin a safe environment, especially with a
young infant, toddlers or preschoolers.
That's where I think some of thesepod things might be really useful.
It's almost Like a popup tent ora cave where a kid can go into, if
(11:08):
you're sharing a room, I think thatmight be a fun and safe thing to do.
But with infants, getthe safe sleep first.
don't put your child in some antiquecrib that your mom got at a flea
market because it's probably not safe.
Pack and plays are safe, right?
Like, can you use a mac and play but don'thave soft pillows, blankets, et cetera.
Arielle Greenleaf (11:27):
And I think some hotels have cribs if you
ask, they'll have a rollaway crib.
that's something you can do aheadof time figure out wherever you're
going, figure out that sort of thing.
several times we rented cribs, atrental homes or, got them at hotels
and they were really helpful.
Craig Canapari MD (11:46):
You know, I think that that is, And, and
again, like a lot of times you'retraveling in car, it's easy, right?
Like bring a pack and play, whatever.
But if you're flying somewhere andyou can, rent something and have
it available when you get there, ifyou're visiting family, being like,
Hey, could you pick this up for me?
then you go from traveling lightto traveling with an infant.
(12:06):
It's like you're.
It's like you're ready for aexpedition to the Himalayas.
It's insanity.
Arielle Greenleaf (12:12):
Yeah.
Craig Canapari MD (12:14):
one thing I'm gonna tell you guys, if your child has a
transitional object, like a favoritestuffed animal, be very careful
that that makes the return trip.
then it makes the trip outand makes the trip back.
My older boy has a stuffed bear that hegot in infancy If we left this in a rest
stop, I would've driven three hours backto get this because I, you know, honestly,
(12:35):
I think he would've been fine, but Iwould've been panicked if we'd lost it.
I remember at one point it was like,should we buy another one and launder
it a bunch No, it was too late.
Honestly, you never know what magic causesyour child to pick a transitional object.
I have two kids.
One had one.
He was very attached to one, couldnot have cared less about any
stuffed animals, but if you get oneearly on, your kid seems to like
(12:57):
it, buy another one immediately andalternate them so you've got a backup.
Arielle Greenleaf (13:01):
Yeah, I was stuck because I could not find a backup
Craig Canapari MD (13:04):
Well, yeah, a lot of animals, they're like seasonal, right?
Arielle Greenleaf (13:06):
and it's just like a little lovey with a head and like a
little blanket on it, so very easy to getcaught up in things and be left behind.
So yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Craig Canapari MD (13:19):
Well, as the Marines say, two is one is one is numb.
they were actually talkingabout stuffed animals,
Arielle Greenleaf (13:28):
Stop.
Craig Canapari MD (13:29):
Okay.
So, what do you think about the nappingat weird times that can happen on
Arielle Greenleaf (13:34):
Yeah.
Craig Canapari MD (13:34):
the car, the plane?
I'm, I'm like, my God, ifyou're kidnaps in the plane,
I mean, thank you lucky stars.
everyone on the plane is gonnagive you a standing ovation of
your child deaths on the plane.
Arielle Greenleaf (13:43):
Absolutely.
I think as far as car travel goes,I do think if you have a child that
sleeps well in the car plan, the.
Travel around nap times or even bedtime.
anytime you can maximize the sleepbecause you're gonna be in random places.
And if your child doesn't sleep wellin random places, utilize the car.
(14:07):
Absolutely.
I actually do have clients who scheduleflights at certain times, like around
nap times, and it's been successful.
they usually have to supportthe child and it's usually like
an infant or a young toddler.
but like probably older toddlerswould be a little difficult.
I think that naps over holidays.
(14:27):
when your child is tired,it's pretty obvious.
So if you can prioritize helping themget a little bit of rest, I would not
recommend skipping naps, especially withyounger infants and toddlers, because
that will be a nightmare for everybody.
even if your toddler is sleepingon you or, on your lap or
something like that, that's fine.
(14:48):
But it is important to make sure that yourchild is getting rest throughout the day.
And then being mindful of bedtime.
I know that's really tough withdinners and things like that,
but sometimes, it can backfire ifyou're pushing too far for bedtime.
Craig Canapari MD (15:03):
I do love the idea of the car, especially
if you have a car seat.
sometimes you're cominginto somebody else's house.
as important as your child's sleepschedule is, people may not like it.
If you're like, please be quiet'cause my baby needs to sleep.
Now, if they have a car seat andyou can take them from a ride, it
may not be their usual nap, butthey get like 20 or 30 minutes of
(15:24):
sleep, You can decompress from the.
stress that sometimeshappens in the holidays.
It's just, it's fraught foreveryone spending time with family.
Arielle Greenleaf (15:34):
Back in the early days, I decided that I couldn't give
up control, so I decided I was justgoing to host as much as I could.
and that allowed me less stress.
This is not gonna be true for everybody.
Some people find it very stressfulto host, but it allowed me to
(15:55):
have my child in her own space.
And be able to put her down to sleepat normal times and use extra white
noise, move people into different rooms.
it was much less stressful than metrying to say, oh, I gotta zip over
here and then I gotta go over tothis grandmother's house and that
(16:15):
grandfather's house and this in-law sofor me, hosting was a lifesaver, but
I know that's not true for everyone.
But being able to control herschedule still, alleviated my stress.
Craig Canapari MD (16:28):
I'd say too, you mentioned shuttling from house to house.
if you live close to your relatives,it's okay You don't have to do
everything, You can sit something out.
if you're going someplace else fordinner and then somebody else's house for
dessert, it's okay for one of the parentsto opt outta that and say, you know what?
Like, you know, if I stay with myin-laws, that would usually be me.
I should be like, okay, I'm gonnago back to the house with the kids.
(16:49):
You guys hang out longer,that's totally cool.
your 15 month old doesn't have toparticipate in every single activity.
it's quality, not quantity.
one thing I want to talkabout is something that.
When my kids were little, used toget talked about a lot more, which
is parents wanting to give theirkids Benadryl or diphenhydramine
to fall asleep with travel.
it's really something that's notrecommended, for a couple of reasons.
(17:10):
it can be a little tricky todose you're basically giving.
1.5.
The dose is 1.5.
Their, their kilo, their kilosand wait every six hours.
the math is not alwayseasy for tired parents.
diphenhydramine can also have aparadoxical response, so it can
actually make your kid hyper.
so you can imagine if you're on acrowded plane and it's time for your
(17:31):
toddler to sleep and you give themedicine that's, just disinhibiting
them and making them crazy.
That might not work well.
I'd say it's probably one of thosethings that I would steer clear of.
Arielle Greenleaf (17:39):
Yeah, I have actually had a couple of
clients over the years who not.
I did not recommend this,just to make that very clear.
Have given, their childrenBenadryl, on a transatlantic
flight or something like that.
And it has caused the oppositeeffect where the child is just
bonkers and off the walls.
Benadryl in general isn'ta great thing, right?
(18:02):
They're just saying it's notvery great for anybody right now.
So, but either way, it candefinitely make, children bonkers.
Craig Canapari MD (18:11):
And I'd say like melatonin two, like.
If you, yeah, again, if you're flyingovernight talk to your pediatrician.
Like, you wanna makesure the dose is right.
You wanna make sure it's notgonna cause any problems.
Whether there's stuff that your,your child, your child's health
issues or something like that.
And like, probably don't try somethingthe first time, when you're on a plane.
(18:32):
we, We flew to England overnight whenCharlie was seven months we thought
about leaving him with relatives mywife went to see a lactation consultant
who told her that he would grieve thebreast if he stayed behind, which I think
is, a pretty messed up thing to say.
So we're ended up bringing him and, hedid not, he cried the whole overnight
flight and then we had to drive 300miles on the wrong side of the road.
(18:54):
he immediately adjusted to the schedule inEngland to the point where we would expect
him to be sleeping in and getting up late.
But no, he was up withDawn, when we got there.
my advice to you is if you have theopportunity to take a nice trip to
England and you have the opportunityto leave your child behind, I
empower you to make that decision.
Arielle Greenleaf (19:14):
Yeah.
Craig Canapari MD (19:14):
Great pictures, and it was a great time, Might
have been more fun without it.
Love you Charlie.
let's talk a little bitabout time zone stuff.
to skip around the outlinea little bit and then maybe
come back to the food stuff.
'cause I think that, it's worth, it's,you know, this again, this is one of
those things that people are maybegonna stress a little bit about and,
Arielle Greenleaf (19:32):
Yeah, I think,
Craig Canapari MD (19:34):
yeah,
Arielle Greenleaf (19:34):
I think there's always, I mean, I work with parents.
Of children who have sleep problems.
eventually they don't.
Once they work with me, they don't.
But, the people that come to me arestressed and so even an hour time
change, parents are freaking out.
I think for just an hour time change.
(19:55):
you can keep your childon their normal schedule.
You don't have to make.
Dramatic shifts.
of course, if you're going like six hours,the other way, that's a different thing.
But just a, an hour, you may justwanna consider keeping your child
on the same, same, schedule.
Craig Canapari MD (20:13):
Most families are not traveling.
Five or six hours, right?
If you're staying in the USthe most, you're probably
traveling is two or three hours.
Now if you're flying east, it's veryeasy to stay on the same schedule,
imagine you're on California time, soyour kid is sleeping from seven to seven.
you fly to the east coast andall of a sudden they're in a
(20:34):
10:00 PM to 10:00 AM schedule.
lean into that.
Stay up a little bit later.
Have them sleep in a little bit.
If your room's dark, maybeyou'll be successful.
it's harder if you're goingthe opposite direction.
Your child is on a seven to sevenschedule and they fly from New York
to San Francisco and all of a suddenthey are on a 4:00 PM to 4:00 AM
Schedule, that's less fun for everyone.
(20:55):
that being said, if you can make it work,you can try to stay in the same schedule.
You know, it's funny, we had some friendswere very fortunate they were taking
it around the world trip, and they'relike, what do we do about our kids sleep?
the math is too complicated.
You're just, you're, you're flyinglike all these different time zones,
just like, you know, the kids were likejunior high aged kids, but you're just
(21:16):
gonna be dealing with some jet lag.
I'd say your average holidaytrip, it's a couple of nights,
stay on your home schedule.
don't worry about it too much.
if you're staying longer, naturallight exposure can be really helpful.
physical activity, limitingscreen time, though I empower you.
If your kid's on the plane and they wantthe iPad, just let 'em have the iPad.
Arielle Greenleaf (21:34):
Absolutely.
Craig Canapari MD (21:35):
I don't like kids being on screens all the time, but in situations
that are both stressful and boring.
I think it's totally okay.
Like parents in the doctor's office, thereare three year olds coming to sleep clinic
and they're taking the kid's phone away.
When I'm talking to them, I'mlike, let them have the phone.
This is a totally appropriatetime for your child to be
entertained and not stressed.
Arielle Greenleaf (21:53):
Mm-Hmm.
Craig Canapari MD (21:56):
I think this is such a new first parent lesson to learn.
If the kids want to watch more TV thanyou're used to, it's not gonna kill them.
Arielle Greenleaf (22:06):
Right,
Craig Canapari MD (22:08):
set your limits but also recognize that they raised
you, you probably turned out okay.
They're not gonna destroy your childwith a little bit of extra cartoons,
Arielle Greenleaf (22:18):
Right, exactly.
But I think that goes into the foodstuff that you're talking about as well.
If you're thinking about being spoiled indifferent ways, we're thinking about sugar
and candy and treats and all the things.
Craig Canapari MD (22:31):
I was so excited for Christmas cookies.
That is my jam.
this is one of those things I kind oftook a little bit of a dive into Sugar
chocolate stuff I say, first of all,all of the literature looking at the
relationship between food and specificallysugar intake and children's sleep
was looking at kids' habitual diets.
(22:52):
So, looking at kids', theevidence is all over the place.
There was an Australian study,and I'll put these on the show
notes, about 300 kids, age, 12.
Almost all these kids, 81% of them wereover the recommended sugar intake limits.
The proportion of sugar in their diet wasnot associated with behavioral change.
but there's another much larger study atabout 2,600 kids, six to 12, and found
(23:17):
that kids who were having more sugarybeverages specifically had decreased
sleep duration and increased sleep debt.
On school days.
So I think there is something tobe said, if you're having soda or
juice, that's like sugar water thatimmediately hits your bloodstream.
if you're having a cookie, somethingwith fat in it, your glucose peak is
(23:38):
probably gonna be a little bit less.
But at the end of the day, if your kidwants to have a cookie, let them have a
cookie, it's Christmas or it's Hanukkah orwhatever, like the message shouldn't be.
Let's all, let's all restrictour diets because I think
that can also be unhealthy.
that being said, it'squality, not quantity.
Have you letting your kidenjoy some Christmas cookies?
That's great.
Letting your kid eat allthe Christmas cookies.
(24:01):
Probably not necessary.
Arielle Greenleaf (24:03):
mean also just know your kid because I feel like some children
are very sensitive to different thingsand others, you know, they can watch
their iPad and all day long until badtime and eat a whole jar of sugar and
they'll go to bed and sleep 12 hours.
So it really depends on your child too.
Craig Canapari MD (24:23):
You know, this is the hard thing about being a parent, right?
Christmas is stress.
Maybe you're a little stressed 'causeyou're dealing with your family.
there's a lot of chaotic energy going on.
Your kid is probably more likely to have atantrum than they would otherwise, right?
being tired, being revved up.
you know what gets kids more nutsthan getting a bunch of presents,
(24:43):
it's got so much stress, like goodstress, but it really gets them up.
you relax a little bit about the iPad,you take it away, you kid has a tantrum.
My son was reminiscing about his visitingfriends and it wasn't a holiday, I'm
like, you're done with your screen time.
he took his iPad, he's probablysix and he smashed it on the ground
something in a memory came up withthis trip and the thing was broken.
(25:05):
I'm like, well, okay, I guessyou don't have that anymore.
Arielle Greenleaf (25:08):
Right.
Craig Canapari MD (25:08):
But you
Arielle Greenleaf (25:09):
Well.
Craig Canapari MD (25:10):
Yeah.
if it makes your kids totally agro,maybe be a little bit careful.
but you know, I, I was, you had goback in the literature where they're
actually doing glucose challenges onkids to see if it affects their behavior.
there was no change inaggressive behavior.
Compared to placebo.
if you know your kid can't toleratethis, that's fine, but make sure they
have something else they can enjoy.
Arielle Greenleaf (25:30):
Yeah.
Craig Canapari MD (25:31):
I think in general I see a lot of parents who
are very restrictive about theirkids' foods, for behavioral reasons,
which usually there's not a lot ofevidence for you can parent your
child any way you want, but sometimes.
It's one thing if they have a peanutallergy, don't give them peanut butter,
but if like, you're like, oh, they geta little hyperactive with sugar, you
know, don't be like, well, you can'thave dessert, and everybody else is.
(25:53):
That's kind of how I feel about that.
Arielle Greenleaf (25:56):
Yeah.
I think it is interesting that you bringup tantrums too because that ties back to
what we've been saying Even if sleep iswonky try to keep your child well rested.
Usually children are tantrumingwhen they're tired or hungry, so
keep them well rested and fed.
don't just feed them sugar,make sure they're having sugar,
(26:17):
but also a piece of broccoli.
Or some protein, those are thetwo things that really lead
to, in my opinion, tantrums.
Craig Canapari MD (26:25):
For me, the main thing with having too much sugar, unless
your child has diabetes or something,is that sugar crash you get, afterwards.
if they've had nothing but a cupof ginger ale and a bunch of candy,
they're probably gonna be freakingout it really can be a challenge.
I remember when my kids were littleand everybody's running around?
Are they really gonna sit at the tableand eat a pork chop or something?
It's not happening.
Arielle Greenleaf (26:46):
your Turkey.
Craig Canapari MD (26:48):
Oh man.
Can I just say I'm not a big Turkey guy.
We're hosting a big Thanksgiving,and I'm like, trytophan.
We love that in sleep world, right?
It's great.
But, I just feel likeIt's hard to cook it.
Right.
I'd rather everybody had a, if I had aminiature cape on myself, I'd be happier.
Arielle Greenleaf (27:03):
I think you're not alone.
I just went to a Friendsgivingyesterday and there was no Turkey.
I am hosting two Thanksgivings,so I have 2 28 pound turkeys
to pick up this weekend.
I don't mind Turkey'cause I like the sides.
gimme the gravy and I'll just.
put the sides around it andthen the turkey's kind of
hidden by everything else.
Craig Canapari MD (27:22):
has to be there, I guess like, so I, I think
we've kind of covered like yeah,keep your, keep, keep your kids'
schedule as routine as possible, butrecognize it's not gonna be perfect.
what do you do if it's yourkid's bedtime and they're totally
jazzed up, how can you kind of
Arielle Greenleaf (27:39):
sure.
Just taking them out,changing their environment.
even if it's like a walk outside, abath or, just going into a different
room that's darker and quieter itmight take a little bit of time
before they actually settle because.
when they're all jazzed up, it can,take some time but I think removing
(28:00):
yourself and your child from thatsituation, even a car ride, like you
were saying, just some sort of change ofscenery to calm them down and, get them
to a place of, calmer can be helpful.
Craig Canapari MD (28:12):
Yeah, get them outside.
Change a scene.
I mean, it's 60 degrees today.
where I am, which is not typical fallweather, but if it's, it's cold, like
yeah, your kids can play outside the cold.
That's okay.
Arielle Greenleaf (28:24):
Definitely get them some physical activity.
even if they're babies,go outside with them.
get outside, get the fresh air.
Craig Canapari MD (28:31):
The cool dad or mom, take them outside and
play a game with them, kick a ballaround, do something like that.
the natural light exposurecan be really helpful as well.
try to channel some of that crazyenergy so they're not just slapping
their siblings or something like that.
Arielle Greenleaf (28:44):
And I think, it's so easy to say this now,
10 years into parenting but.
try not to stress, tryto let go a little bit.
I know it's hard to let go,especially for those who have worked
so hard on your child's sleep.
but I promise you,you'll get back on track.
If you have a regular, beautiful scheduleand routine, you'll get back there.
(29:11):
Merry Christmas.
Happy Hanukkah.
Happy Kwanza.
Happy New Year.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Craig Canapari MD (29:17):
Yeah, I would agree.
The what got you here will,will your routines just when you
get home, just go back to them.
it'll be okay.
Hey, I have one pro tip I wanna share.
We can probably open
Arielle Greenleaf (29:27):
hear it.
Craig Canapari MD (29:28):
So, new Year's, right?
What do we know about New Year's?
You stay up till midnight.
Well, I remember one year wewere staying with some friends.
The kids were probably.
I think my oldest son was maybe 10 or 11and they wanted to stay up to midnight.
And the last thing I wanted was to behanging out with my kids at midnight.
so we set all the clocks in thehouse significantly later, and
(29:54):
parents, Netflix actually hasa ball drop thing you can play.
at an earlier time tosimulate a new year's.
so our kids went to bed at nine o'clockand then they couldn't sleep for a
while 'cause they were so excited.
the next day my oldestson was probably up to 11.
He's like, I was up till likefour or five in the morning.
It was crazy.
(30:15):
here's my pro tip.
just lie to your kids.
Arielle Greenleaf (30:20):
you're simulating things to promote their health
and allow them to have fun whileyou're keeping them on track.
Craig Canapari MD (30:27):
And I think my kids do know that we did this.
we didn't routinely lie to them,but honestly, I thought it was
kind of funny too, and I was supersurprised that it actually worked.
so yeah, that's all I've got.
as Arielle said, give yourself a break.
Give your kids a break.
Be flexible.
You're gonna be fine.
Arielle Greenleaf (30:41):
Absolutely.
Craig Canapari MD (30:44):
A peaceful, calm holiday season to everyone.
Enjoy yourself.
Enjoy some sweets.
Try not to be too stressed.
Arielle Greenleaf (30:52):
Amen.
Craig Canapari MD (30:53):
Okay.
Thanks so much forlistening to the Sleep edit.
You can find transcripts atthe web address Sleeped show.
You can also find video of theepisodes at that address as
well as in my YouTube channel.
You can find me at Dr.
Craig canna perry.com and on allsocial media at D-R-C-A-N-A-P-A-R-I.
(31:19):
You can find Ariel atInstagram at Ariel Greenleaf.
That's A-R-I-E-L-L-E-G-R-E-E-N-L-E-A.
If you like the flavor of the advice here.
Please check out my book.
It's Never Too Late to Sleep.
Train the Low Stress Way to high QualitySleep for babies, kids, and parents.
(31:40):
It's available whereverfine books are sold.
If you found this useful, pleasesubscribe at Spotify or Apple Podcast
and share it with your friends.
It really helps as we're tryingto get the show off the ground.
Thanks.
Welcome to the Sleep Edit, a podcast devoted to helping
tired kids and parents sleep better.
We focus on actionable evidence-basedsleep advice, so everyone in your
home can sleep through the night.
Now, a quick disclaimer, this podcastis for general informational purposes
only and does not constitute thepractice of medicine, nursing, or
other professional healthcare services,including the giving of medical advice.
(00:27):
No doctor patient relationship is formed.
The use of this information andthe materials linked to this
podcast and any associated videocontent are at the user's own risk.
The content on the show is not intendedto be a substitute for professional
medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Users should not disregard ordelay obtaining medical help for
(00:50):
any medical condition they have.
Or that their children may have,they should seek the assistance
of their healthcare professionalsfor any such conditions.
Nothing stated here reflectsthe views of our employers or
the employees of our guests.
Enjoy the show.
Okay.
Arielle Greenleaf (01:17):
And I'm Ariel Greenleaf.
Craig Canapari MD (01:20):
We thought since it is closing in on the end of the
year, we would talk about navigatingholiday sleep challenges for parents
and children, because this isn't a timeof year associated with the best sleep.
Arielle Greenleaf (01:31):
No.
Craig Canapari MD (01:34):
If there's a through line for this, I'd say, you
know, we may get in the weeds a littlebit here, but the main thing is.
It's not gonna be perfect.
That's okay.
Enjoy your time with yourfriends and family and you can
sort it all out in January.
It's really gonna be okay.
Arielle Greenleaf (01:48):
Yeah, I totally agree.
I remember as a new parent, I had aSeptember baby, so I had, a two and a
half month old or something like that, andI got a memory from 10 years ago saying
what does one do to keep an infant onschedule During the holidays she goes to
(02:08):
bed between seven and eight every night.
I don't know how that's gonna be possibleif I have a house full of people,
but, it was definitely a tough year.
But then a year later I thoughtthe holidays were always gonna
be sleepless and horrible.
a year later everything was fine.
sometimes it's roughand then it gets better.
Craig Canapari MD (02:24):
I think if it's your first child and if it's
a really young infant, it feelstotally overwhelming, right?
Arielle Greenleaf (02:32):
Yeah.
I think that's the biggest thing just try.
I think you gave really good advice.
we can just stop the show now.
Just enjoy the holidays.
Craig Canapari MD (02:40):
Enjoy the holidays as best you can.
you have to extend yourself alittle bit of grace, You're gonna
be dealing with grandparents andaunts and uncles who are really
excited to spend time with the baby.
for me, as we were just talking aboutbefore the show, a little bit older than
Arielle, my parents would often applythe best seventies parenting technique
and knowledge to, you know, and, and notunderstand why we are doing things in a
(03:03):
certain way, Parenting has changed and theway we think about problems have changed.
we weren't gonna be sitting around,smoking cigarettes and drinking,
vodka tonics and playing pinochle withthe neighbors, during the holidays.
Not that my parents do thatanymore either, but that's what
it was like when I was a kid.
let's break it down by thechallenges, parents can face.
one is just.
(03:23):
Travel, right?
This may be the first timeyou are taking your child and
spending the night somewhere else.
if you had a baby in September or August,this might be the first time you're
leaving the cocoon of your home where,you know, you may be still struggling
with your child's sleep, but at least youhave more control over what's happening.
Arielle Greenleaf (03:45):
Yeah, I, I.
Actually working with someone right nowwhose son just doing remarkably well.
I mean a toddler who had neverslept through the night and she had
attempted sleep training severaltimes and it just, wasn't working.
However, she needed to get outof the house and go see family
and she said, okay, let's justgive it a try and do a nap at.
(04:08):
At my sister's house, let's do auntie nap.
And it did not go that well.
I think that if your children aresleeping well at home and they go
down easily and then you travel andsuddenly they don't, you go back to
giving yourself grace and understandingthat this is an exciting time for them
(04:28):
too, even if they're young and theycan't express that, and offering help.
It's not gonna like undo anysleep training you've done or
any good habits you've created.
It's just helping your baby orchild get the rest they need so
that you can all have a good time.
Craig Canapari MD (04:45):
parents become very rigid about routines and, the
perfect environmental settings.
Those are also the kids that maybehave a little bit less flexibility.
I remember I had close friends, beforeI had kids their kid was 15 months old
and we would play Mario party and theirkid would sleep on a cushion on the
floor that kid could sleep anywhere.
(05:07):
They weren't stressed about this.
If you struggled with your child'ssleep, you probably have a little bit of.
You're still carrying a littlebit of worry, that you're going to
derail everything that you've done.
the fact is these holiday trips,often are pretty short trips, right?
Like a couple of nights of screwy sleep atyour in-laws Is not going to destroy your
(05:29):
kid's sleep for the next three months.
You just have to go back to the routinesthat got you to a place of success.
we were talking a little bitabout, time zones and stuff.
it kind of depends, right?
that's a special case.
Arielle Greenleaf (05:42):
Mm-Hmm.
Craig Canapari MD (05:42):
But some families will be flying, some families
are gonna be driving, some peopleare gonna have people visiting.
what do you think parents should do?
Hopefully what this is gonnadrop, before Thanksgiving, at
least before the winter holidays.
anything parents should be doing.
A week or two before they travel.
Arielle Greenleaf (06:02):
It's a good question.
I think going back to what you weresaying about people that have, struggled
with their child's sleep and they'vedone a lot of work to get their
child in a good place, you can alwayspractice putting your child in a pack
and play or seeing how they nap there.
If you are, Going to a differenttime zone, you can start to try to
(06:24):
shift the schedule, but ultimately,I really feel like you just have to
go with the flow when you get there.
I don't feel that there's aton of stuff that you should
be doing in preparation for it,
Creates more anxiety.
But some things that you can think aboutare when you get to your destination, what
is the sleeping space going to look like?
Are you going to have an, is your childgonna have their own sleeping space?
(06:47):
Are you gonna be sharing a room together?
are you in a hotel room?
Are you at someone's home?
Can we control?
Let's bring the white noise machine.
Let's bring, blackout shades.
They have travel blackoutshades, or, if you're in a hotel
room, that's not a problem.
if you have a toddler who likes to havea nightlight, bring the nightlight,
(07:07):
bring, the lovey that your toddler likes.
try to make it comfortable for themand recreate a similar situation
as they would have at home.
my clients have alwaysgotten very creative.
if staying anywhere where they're supposedto room share with their child, and
they're nervous because the child cansee them and they're overstimulated.
They have often used bathrooms andclosets as alternative sleep spaces.
(07:34):
Just during that temporary periodso that the child can have their own
space and isn't, waking up and seeingmom and dad there and wanting to get
into bed with them being creativeis good, but also, getting into the
mindset that you need to be flexibleand you're gonna get through it.
And the ultimate goal is just totry to keep your child well rested.
Whether that means holding themor, passing 'em off to grandma
(07:58):
halfway through the night.
Craig Canapari MD (08:00):
I think where your kids sleep, creativity,
extends to older kids too.
what struck me was my, wife's aunt anduncle have a beach place in Long Island.
So everybody would go and we'd kindof, if we could, it's great to match up
the kids who are on similar schedules.
even if you could cohort peopletogether in a sleeping environment,
(08:22):
like there was, a big closet.
two of the younger kids who werenot infants Were in a little closet
together they were both early risers,so that was great because they
didn't get the non early risers up.
and it is funny too, I think theflip side is parents are worried
about it, but also, sometimes.
Other people have to be alittle bit flexible too, right?
Like, if you are the first person withsmall children and you go to stay with
(08:43):
your brother and his wife or something,and they're used to sleeping on noon
on the weekends, I mean, let me sellyou, they're also gonna be disappointed
in your child's sleeping habits.
Christmas morning might happen a littlebit earlier than they were expecting.
Arielle Greenleaf (08:55):
you're not looking at brunch.
You're looking at early morning.
Craig Canapari MD (09:00):
Brunch is not a thing that, people with small children have.
I remember Christmas morning we usedto, now I live fairly close to my
folks, but we used to come down andmy parents had a Keurig my dad would
get the good coffee, but they'd makeindividual things with a Keurig.
it would be like six in the morning,and my dad would be just Working on this
(09:21):
machine, for what felt like 20 minutesto produce four adult size cup of coffee.
And I was just dying.
And I'm like, my God dad,can you move this along?
I love you, God are great.
But next time what I would'vedone is front my own coffee maker.
Arielle Greenleaf (09:39):
There you go.
Craig Canapari MD (09:40):
It would actually be able to produce a whole pot of
coffee, which is, the start of whatyou need on those early mornings you
know, something that I am interested inbecause I think it would've been great
for my kids who are, especially onekid was a light sensitive early riser.
these sort of, Sleep pods kind ofthings, that some parents ask me about.
Arielle Greenleaf (10:01):
I mean, in theory, they're great.
I don't know.
If they're necessarily safe.
I think I'd have to look into that more.
But, I think anything that can give achild their own space and have it dark.
'cause children are sensitive to lightand the sun is coming up earlier.
So any way to sort of make them feel,you know, and you have to also remember
(10:26):
that young children in their cribsfeel safe in that enclosed space.
making sure they don't feelvulnerable can be really helpful.
I don't 100% know the safety factsaround them and I didn't have
one when Ashley was an infant.
So in theory, they look amazing.
Craig Canapari MD (10:45):
Well, I think this is a good point.
If you're traveling with an infant,you need to make sure that you
have a safe sleep environment.
Cribs can be rented in cities and towns.
If you're staying in ahotel, you can get them.
Make sure that your child is sleepingin a safe environment, especially with a
young infant, toddlers or preschoolers.
That's where I think some of thesepod things might be really useful.
It's almost Like a popup tent ora cave where a kid can go into, if
(11:08):
you're sharing a room, I think thatmight be a fun and safe thing to do.
But with infants, getthe safe sleep first.
don't put your child in some antiquecrib that your mom got at a flea
market because it's probably not safe.
Pack and plays are safe, right?
Like, can you use a mac and play but don'thave soft pillows, blankets, et cetera.
Arielle Greenleaf (11:27):
And I think some hotels have cribs if you
ask, they'll have a rollaway crib.
that's something you can do aheadof time figure out wherever you're
going, figure out that sort of thing.
several times we rented cribs, atrental homes or, got them at hotels
and they were really helpful.
Craig Canapari MD (11:46):
You know, I think that that is, And, and
again, like a lot of times you'retraveling in car, it's easy, right?
Like bring a pack and play, whatever.
But if you're flying somewhere andyou can, rent something and have
it available when you get there, ifyou're visiting family, being like,
Hey, could you pick this up for me?
then you go from traveling lightto traveling with an infant.
(12:06):
It's like you're.
It's like you're ready for aexpedition to the Himalayas.
It's insanity.
Arielle Greenleaf (12:12):
Yeah.
Craig Canapari MD (12:14):
one thing I'm gonna tell you guys, if your child has a
transitional object, like a favoritestuffed animal, be very careful
that that makes the return trip.
then it makes the trip outand makes the trip back.
My older boy has a stuffed bear that hegot in infancy If we left this in a rest
stop, I would've driven three hours backto get this because I, you know, honestly,
(12:35):
I think he would've been fine, but Iwould've been panicked if we'd lost it.
I remember at one point it was like,should we buy another one and launder
it a bunch No, it was too late.
Honestly, you never know what magic causesyour child to pick a transitional object.
I have two kids.
One had one.
He was very attached to one, couldnot have cared less about any
stuffed animals, but if you get oneearly on, your kid seems to like
(12:57):
it, buy another one immediately andalternate them so you've got a backup.
Arielle Greenleaf (13:01):
Yeah, I was stuck because I could not find a backup
Craig Canapari MD (13:04):
Well, yeah, a lot of animals, they're like seasonal, right?
Arielle Greenleaf (13:06):
and it's just like a little lovey with a head and like a
little blanket on it, so very easy to getcaught up in things and be left behind.
So yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Craig Canapari MD (13:19):
Well, as the Marines say, two is one is one is numb.
they were actually talkingabout stuffed animals,
Arielle Greenleaf (13:28):
Stop.
Craig Canapari MD (13:29):
Okay.
So, what do you think about the nappingat weird times that can happen on
Arielle Greenleaf (13:34):
Yeah.
Craig Canapari MD (13:34):
the car, the plane?
I'm, I'm like, my God, ifyou're kidnaps in the plane,
I mean, thank you lucky stars.
everyone on the plane is gonnagive you a standing ovation of
your child deaths on the plane.
Arielle Greenleaf (13:43):
Absolutely.
I think as far as car travel goes,I do think if you have a child that
sleeps well in the car plan, the.
Travel around nap times or even bedtime.
anytime you can maximize the sleepbecause you're gonna be in random places.
And if your child doesn't sleep wellin random places, utilize the car.
(14:07):
Absolutely.
I actually do have clients who scheduleflights at certain times, like around
nap times, and it's been successful.
they usually have to supportthe child and it's usually like
an infant or a young toddler.
but like probably older toddlerswould be a little difficult.
I think that naps over holidays.
(14:27):
when your child is tired,it's pretty obvious.
So if you can prioritize helping themget a little bit of rest, I would not
recommend skipping naps, especially withyounger infants and toddlers, because
that will be a nightmare for everybody.
even if your toddler is sleepingon you or, on your lap or
something like that, that's fine.
(14:48):
But it is important to make sure that yourchild is getting rest throughout the day.
And then being mindful of bedtime.
I know that's really tough withdinners and things like that,
but sometimes, it can backfire ifyou're pushing too far for bedtime.
Craig Canapari MD (15:03):
I do love the idea of the car, especially
if you have a car seat.
sometimes you're cominginto somebody else's house.
as important as your child's sleepschedule is, people may not like it.
If you're like, please be quiet'cause my baby needs to sleep.
Now, if they have a car seat andyou can take them from a ride, it
may not be their usual nap, butthey get like 20 or 30 minutes of
(15:24):
sleep, You can decompress from the.
stress that sometimeshappens in the holidays.
It's just, it's fraught foreveryone spending time with family.
Arielle Greenleaf (15:34):
Back in the early days, I decided that I couldn't give
up control, so I decided I was justgoing to host as much as I could.
and that allowed me less stress.
This is not gonna be true for everybody.
Some people find it very stressfulto host, but it allowed me to
(15:55):
have my child in her own space.
And be able to put her down to sleepat normal times and use extra white
noise, move people into different rooms.
it was much less stressful than metrying to say, oh, I gotta zip over
here and then I gotta go over tothis grandmother's house and that
(16:15):
grandfather's house and this in-law sofor me, hosting was a lifesaver, but
I know that's not true for everyone.
But being able to control herschedule still, alleviated my stress.
Craig Canapari MD (16:28):
I'd say too, you mentioned shuttling from house to house.
if you live close to your relatives,it's okay You don't have to do
everything, You can sit something out.
if you're going someplace else fordinner and then somebody else's house for
dessert, it's okay for one of the parentsto opt outta that and say, you know what?
Like, you know, if I stay with myin-laws, that would usually be me.
I should be like, okay, I'm gonnago back to the house with the kids.
(16:49):
You guys hang out longer,that's totally cool.
your 15 month old doesn't have toparticipate in every single activity.
it's quality, not quantity.
one thing I want to talkabout is something that.
When my kids were little, used toget talked about a lot more, which
is parents wanting to give theirkids Benadryl or diphenhydramine
to fall asleep with travel.
it's really something that's notrecommended, for a couple of reasons.
(17:10):
it can be a little tricky todose you're basically giving.
1.5.
The dose is 1.5.
Their, their kilo, their kilosand wait every six hours.
the math is not alwayseasy for tired parents.
diphenhydramine can also have aparadoxical response, so it can
actually make your kid hyper.
so you can imagine if you're on acrowded plane and it's time for your
(17:31):
toddler to sleep and you give themedicine that's, just disinhibiting
them and making them crazy.
That might not work well.
I'd say it's probably one of thosethings that I would steer clear of.
Arielle Greenleaf (17:39):
Yeah, I have actually had a couple of
clients over the years who not.
I did not recommend this,just to make that very clear.
Have given, their childrenBenadryl, on a transatlantic
flight or something like that.
And it has caused the oppositeeffect where the child is just
bonkers and off the walls.
Benadryl in general isn'ta great thing, right?
(18:02):
They're just saying it's notvery great for anybody right now.
So, but either way, it candefinitely make, children bonkers.
Craig Canapari MD (18:11):
And I'd say like melatonin two, like.
If you, yeah, again, if you're flyingovernight talk to your pediatrician.
Like, you wanna makesure the dose is right.
You wanna make sure it's notgonna cause any problems.
Whether there's stuff that your,your child, your child's health
issues or something like that.
And like, probably don't try somethingthe first time, when you're on a plane.
(18:32):
we, We flew to England overnight whenCharlie was seven months we thought
about leaving him with relatives mywife went to see a lactation consultant
who told her that he would grieve thebreast if he stayed behind, which I think
is, a pretty messed up thing to say.
So we're ended up bringing him and, hedid not, he cried the whole overnight
flight and then we had to drive 300miles on the wrong side of the road.
(18:54):
he immediately adjusted to the schedule inEngland to the point where we would expect
him to be sleeping in and getting up late.
But no, he was up withDawn, when we got there.
my advice to you is if you have theopportunity to take a nice trip to
England and you have the opportunityto leave your child behind, I
empower you to make that decision.
Arielle Greenleaf (19:14):
Yeah.
Craig Canapari MD (19:14):
Great pictures, and it was a great time, Might
have been more fun without it.
Love you Charlie.
let's talk a little bitabout time zone stuff.
to skip around the outlinea little bit and then maybe
come back to the food stuff.
'cause I think that, it's worth, it's,you know, this again, this is one of
those things that people are maybegonna stress a little bit about and,
Arielle Greenleaf (19:32):
Yeah, I think,
Craig Canapari MD (19:34):
yeah,
Arielle Greenleaf (19:34):
I think there's always, I mean, I work with parents.
Of children who have sleep problems.
eventually they don't.
Once they work with me, they don't.
But, the people that come to me arestressed and so even an hour time
change, parents are freaking out.
I think for just an hour time change.
(19:55):
you can keep your childon their normal schedule.
You don't have to make.
Dramatic shifts.
of course, if you're going like six hours,the other way, that's a different thing.
But just a, an hour, you may justwanna consider keeping your child
on the same, same, schedule.
Craig Canapari MD (20:13):
Most families are not traveling.
Five or six hours, right?
If you're staying in the USthe most, you're probably
traveling is two or three hours.
Now if you're flying east, it's veryeasy to stay on the same schedule,
imagine you're on California time, soyour kid is sleeping from seven to seven.
you fly to the east coast andall of a sudden they're in a
(20:34):
10:00 PM to 10:00 AM schedule.
lean into that.
Stay up a little bit later.
Have them sleep in a little bit.
If your room's dark, maybeyou'll be successful.
it's harder if you're goingthe opposite direction.
Your child is on a seven to sevenschedule and they fly from New York
to San Francisco and all of a suddenthey are on a 4:00 PM to 4:00 AM
Schedule, that's less fun for everyone.
(20:55):
that being said, if you can make it work,you can try to stay in the same schedule.
You know, it's funny, we had some friendswere very fortunate they were taking
it around the world trip, and they'relike, what do we do about our kids sleep?
the math is too complicated.
You're just, you're, you're flyinglike all these different time zones,
just like, you know, the kids were likejunior high aged kids, but you're just
(21:16):
gonna be dealing with some jet lag.
I'd say your average holidaytrip, it's a couple of nights,
stay on your home schedule.
don't worry about it too much.
if you're staying longer, naturallight exposure can be really helpful.
physical activity, limitingscreen time, though I empower you.
If your kid's on the plane and they wantthe iPad, just let 'em have the iPad.
Arielle Greenleaf (21:34):
Absolutely.
Craig Canapari MD (21:35):
I don't like kids being on screens all the time, but in situations
that are both stressful and boring.
I think it's totally okay.
Like parents in the doctor's office, thereare three year olds coming to sleep clinic
and they're taking the kid's phone away.
When I'm talking to them, I'mlike, let them have the phone.
This is a totally appropriatetime for your child to be
entertained and not stressed.
Arielle Greenleaf (21:53):
Mm-Hmm.
Craig Canapari MD (21:56):
I think this is such a new first parent lesson to learn.
If the kids want to watch more TV thanyou're used to, it's not gonna kill them.
Arielle Greenleaf (22:06):
Right,
Craig Canapari MD (22:08):
set your limits but also recognize that they raised
you, you probably turned out okay.
They're not gonna destroy your childwith a little bit of extra cartoons,
Arielle Greenleaf (22:18):
Right, exactly.
But I think that goes into the foodstuff that you're talking about as well.
If you're thinking about being spoiled indifferent ways, we're thinking about sugar
and candy and treats and all the things.
Craig Canapari MD (22:31):
I was so excited for Christmas cookies.
That is my jam.
this is one of those things I kind oftook a little bit of a dive into Sugar
chocolate stuff I say, first of all,all of the literature looking at the
relationship between food and specificallysugar intake and children's sleep
was looking at kids' habitual diets.
(22:52):
So, looking at kids', theevidence is all over the place.
There was an Australian study,and I'll put these on the show
notes, about 300 kids, age, 12.
Almost all these kids, 81% of them wereover the recommended sugar intake limits.
The proportion of sugar in their diet wasnot associated with behavioral change.
but there's another much larger study atabout 2,600 kids, six to 12, and found
(23:17):
that kids who were having more sugarybeverages specifically had decreased
sleep duration and increased sleep debt.
On school days.
So I think there is something tobe said, if you're having soda or
juice, that's like sugar water thatimmediately hits your bloodstream.
if you're having a cookie, somethingwith fat in it, your glucose peak is
(23:38):
probably gonna be a little bit less.
But at the end of the day, if your kidwants to have a cookie, let them have a
cookie, it's Christmas or it's Hanukkah orwhatever, like the message shouldn't be.
Let's all, let's all restrictour diets because I think
that can also be unhealthy.
that being said, it'squality, not quantity.
Have you letting your kidenjoy some Christmas cookies?
That's great.
Letting your kid eat allthe Christmas cookies.
(24:01):
Probably not necessary.
Arielle Greenleaf (24:03):
mean also just know your kid because I feel like some children
are very sensitive to different thingsand others, you know, they can watch
their iPad and all day long until badtime and eat a whole jar of sugar and
they'll go to bed and sleep 12 hours.
So it really depends on your child too.
Craig Canapari MD (24:23):
You know, this is the hard thing about being a parent, right?
Christmas is stress.
Maybe you're a little stressed 'causeyou're dealing with your family.
there's a lot of chaotic energy going on.
Your kid is probably more likely to have atantrum than they would otherwise, right?
being tired, being revved up.
you know what gets kids more nutsthan getting a bunch of presents,
(24:43):
it's got so much stress, like goodstress, but it really gets them up.
you relax a little bit about the iPad,you take it away, you kid has a tantrum.
My son was reminiscing about his visitingfriends and it wasn't a holiday, I'm
like, you're done with your screen time.
he took his iPad, he's probablysix and he smashed it on the ground
something in a memory came up withthis trip and the thing was broken.
(25:05):
I'm like, well, okay, I guessyou don't have that anymore.
Arielle Greenleaf (25:08):
Right.
Craig Canapari MD (25:08):
But you
Arielle Greenleaf (25:09):
Well.
Craig Canapari MD (25:10):
Yeah.
if it makes your kids totally agro,maybe be a little bit careful.
but you know, I, I was, you had goback in the literature where they're
actually doing glucose challenges onkids to see if it affects their behavior.
there was no change inaggressive behavior.
Compared to placebo.
if you know your kid can't toleratethis, that's fine, but make sure they
have something else they can enjoy.
Arielle Greenleaf (25:30):
Yeah.
Craig Canapari MD (25:31):
I think in general I see a lot of parents who
are very restrictive about theirkids' foods, for behavioral reasons,
which usually there's not a lot ofevidence for you can parent your
child any way you want, but sometimes.
It's one thing if they have a peanutallergy, don't give them peanut butter,
but if like, you're like, oh, they geta little hyperactive with sugar, you
know, don't be like, well, you can'thave dessert, and everybody else is.
(25:53):
That's kind of how I feel about that.
Arielle Greenleaf (25:56):
Yeah.
I think it is interesting that you bringup tantrums too because that ties back to
what we've been saying Even if sleep iswonky try to keep your child well rested.
Usually children are tantrumingwhen they're tired or hungry, so
keep them well rested and fed.
don't just feed them sugar,make sure they're having sugar,
(26:17):
but also a piece of broccoli.
Or some protein, those are thetwo things that really lead
to, in my opinion, tantrums.
Craig Canapari MD (26:25):
For me, the main thing with having too much sugar, unless
your child has diabetes or something,is that sugar crash you get, afterwards.
if they've had nothing but a cupof ginger ale and a bunch of candy,
they're probably gonna be freakingout it really can be a challenge.
I remember when my kids were littleand everybody's running around?
Are they really gonna sit at the tableand eat a pork chop or something?
It's not happening.
Arielle Greenleaf (26:46):
your Turkey.
Craig Canapari MD (26:48):
Oh man.
Can I just say I'm not a big Turkey guy.
We're hosting a big Thanksgiving,and I'm like, trytophan.
We love that in sleep world, right?
It's great.
But, I just feel likeIt's hard to cook it.
Right.
I'd rather everybody had a, if I had aminiature cape on myself, I'd be happier.
Arielle Greenleaf (27:03):
I think you're not alone.
I just went to a Friendsgivingyesterday and there was no Turkey.
I am hosting two Thanksgivings,so I have 2 28 pound turkeys
to pick up this weekend.
I don't mind Turkey'cause I like the sides.
gimme the gravy and I'll just.
put the sides around it andthen the turkey's kind of
hidden by everything else.
Craig Canapari MD (27:22):
has to be there, I guess like, so I, I think
we've kind of covered like yeah,keep your, keep, keep your kids'
schedule as routine as possible, butrecognize it's not gonna be perfect.
what do you do if it's yourkid's bedtime and they're totally
jazzed up, how can you kind of
Arielle Greenleaf (27:39):
sure.
Just taking them out,changing their environment.
even if it's like a walk outside, abath or, just going into a different
room that's darker and quieter itmight take a little bit of time
before they actually settle because.
when they're all jazzed up, it can,take some time but I think removing
(28:00):
yourself and your child from thatsituation, even a car ride, like you
were saying, just some sort of change ofscenery to calm them down and, get them
to a place of, calmer can be helpful.
Craig Canapari MD (28:12):
Yeah, get them outside.
Change a scene.
I mean, it's 60 degrees today.
where I am, which is not typical fallweather, but if it's, it's cold, like
yeah, your kids can play outside the cold.
That's okay.
Arielle Greenleaf (28:24):
Definitely get them some physical activity.
even if they're babies,go outside with them.
get outside, get the fresh air.
Craig Canapari MD (28:31):
The cool dad or mom, take them outside and
play a game with them, kick a ballaround, do something like that.
the natural light exposurecan be really helpful as well.
try to channel some of that crazyenergy so they're not just slapping
their siblings or something like that.
Arielle Greenleaf (28:44):
And I think, it's so easy to say this now,
10 years into parenting but.
try not to stress, tryto let go a little bit.
I know it's hard to let go,especially for those who have worked
so hard on your child's sleep.
but I promise you,you'll get back on track.
If you have a regular, beautiful scheduleand routine, you'll get back there.
(29:11):
Merry Christmas.
Happy Hanukkah.
Happy Kwanza.
Happy New Year.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Craig Canapari MD (29:17):
Yeah, I would agree.
The what got you here will,will your routines just when you
get home, just go back to them.
it'll be okay.
Hey, I have one pro tip I wanna share.
We can probably open
Arielle Greenleaf (29:27):
hear it.
Craig Canapari MD (29:28):
So, new Year's, right?
What do we know about New Year's?
You stay up till midnight.
Well, I remember one year wewere staying with some friends.
The kids were probably.
I think my oldest son was maybe 10 or 11and they wanted to stay up to midnight.
And the last thing I wanted was to behanging out with my kids at midnight.
so we set all the clocks in thehouse significantly later, and
(29:54):
parents, Netflix actually hasa ball drop thing you can play.
at an earlier time tosimulate a new year's.
so our kids went to bed at nine o'clockand then they couldn't sleep for a
while 'cause they were so excited.
the next day my oldestson was probably up to 11.
He's like, I was up till likefour or five in the morning.
It was crazy.
(30:15):
here's my pro tip.
just lie to your kids.
Arielle Greenleaf (30:20):
you're simulating things to promote their health
and allow them to have fun whileyou're keeping them on track.
Craig Canapari MD (30:27):
And I think my kids do know that we did this.
we didn't routinely lie to them,but honestly, I thought it was
kind of funny too, and I was supersurprised that it actually worked.
so yeah, that's all I've got.
as Arielle said, give yourself a break.
Give your kids a break.
Be flexible.
You're gonna be fine.
Arielle Greenleaf (30:41):
Absolutely.
Craig Canapari MD (30:44):
A peaceful, calm holiday season to everyone.
Enjoy yourself.
Enjoy some sweets.
Try not to be too stressed.
Arielle Greenleaf (30:52):
Amen.
Craig Canapari MD (30:53):
Okay.
Thanks so much forlistening to the Sleep edit.
You can find transcripts atthe web address Sleeped show.
You can also find video of theepisodes at that address as
well as in my YouTube channel.
You can find me at Dr.
Craig canna perry.com and on allsocial media at D-R-C-A-N-A-P-A-R-I.
(31:19):
You can find Ariel atInstagram at Ariel Greenleaf.
That's A-R-I-E-L-L-E-G-R-E-E-N-L-E-A.
If you like the flavor of the advice here.
Please check out my book.
It's Never Too Late to Sleep.
Train the Low Stress Way to high QualitySleep for babies, kids, and parents.
(31:40):
It's available whereverfine books are sold.
If you found this useful, pleasesubscribe at Spotify or Apple Podcast
and share it with your friends.
It really helps as we're tryingto get the show off the ground.
Thanks.
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