From Window Cleaner to Exterior Lighting: Lighting up a Niche | Ryan Lee - The Small Business Safari

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So you started a podcast in landscape lighting,
which is as niche-y as I canpossibly imagine.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
It has to be.
It has to be the niche-iestniche I've ever niched.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
It is the niche-iest niche of niches.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
He's the niche-iest niche of ever, niches.
Put that in the gold nuggets.
Welcome to the Small BusinessSafari where I help guide you to
avoid those traps, pitfalls anddangers that lurk when
navigating the wild world ofsmall business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse

(00:34):
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to the mount.
What's this shit, alan?
Because I'm gonna make thisthing go.

(00:54):
We gotta get going.
Everybody, you dial in and tryto figure out what's going on.
Here we go.
This week just got anotheremail, did you, saying hey,
chris, thanks for the shout out,appreciate it, appreciate it,
nary.
So everybody knows.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'm part of the National Association.
You're just name-droppingbecause oh, who's president?
Oh, that's me.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, that's right.
That's only in Atlanta, though.
This is a national person whosaid hey, I just love how you
pumped up Nary.
Let me tell you why that's cool.
I'd seen her two months ago ata conference and she said she
went back to the podcast and sheis a loyal listener checking

(01:31):
things out.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Love your banter.
One of the things she said wasstop using the f word was
probably what she said, really,instead of the less, alan, I
think so baby, yeah so don't usethe f word and nary in the same
sentence.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
So yeah, you can use st thomas of francis of assisi,
that's right, which he has done,and I have, by the way, and
drop the f bomb.
And I have said sometimes thecatholic church, we got to get
the f out of our own way.
I've done that too, but let'skeep going, shall we so?
Um, we got a great guest ontoday, man.
This guy totally differentservice is he different?

Speaker 1 (02:05):
because he's so good looking and all that hair.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
All right guys go to YouTube Once again, alan and
Chris.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Cindy, why do you do this to us?

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, cindy, you're listening to this.
It's your fault and I'm blamingyou, and you could deposit
right now and amp me up and putRyan down, or can you take
Ryan's beautiful head of hairoff his head and give it to us?
Look at the beard and the beard.
I know he's got everything.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Oh, he's got it all.
Whatever I feel like we'redoing a S&L skip he's just
shallow.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
He's going to have nothing to add today.
Guys, we got Ryan Normally.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I'm just here for my good looks, which that's why I'm
not good on podcasts, becauseI'm better just on, like just
pictures and videos, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
But if I have to talk , this could be bad, and the
worst part is he has a betterradio voice than we do he really
, and I am on the radio, you'reon the podcast, everything we
said we have a face for radio.
Now he has a voice for radio.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Thanks, for putting up with us ryan, thanks for
coming on, man.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
We can't wait to keep talking to you.
Let's get going I love it.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Thanks for having me.
It's an honor, honestly.
Uh, I've already had a blast.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
And then we we haven't even gotten started yeah
, the stuff off air was prettygood yeah, guys, we we talked a
little bit off air, but we leftit in the green room and we're
going to leave it right therebecause what's more important
for all of us you're drivingaround is you really don't want
to know that Chris is Popefanboying right now, because
when we're taping this, theconclave is going on.

(03:30):
This is a big time for all ofus in our Catholic faith, really
excited about it.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Who did you put your money on?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
So I went for the.
So I put money on the Italianguy one and I went Asian guy
second.
But I will not bet on thatbecause that is for blasphemy.
That's bad people.
What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Dad doesn't listen, so I'm good you can just go to
confession, though for thatright I can't.
It all gets resolved on.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Saturday bro, I can do anything.
Quick story I may or may nothave ended up in the detention
office in high school when Iargued that the word F-U-C-K was
not in the Bible.
Therefore it's not a bad word.
May or may not Will not tellyou.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
So unpack that a little bit.
So any word that's not in theBible is not a bad word.
Was that your logic?
That's where I fucking camefrom.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Okay, and how did that go?

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Any word that's not in there is not exactly right I
didn't see that you know it hadthe other ones, but it didn't
have this one and I did not usehis name in vain it sounds like
you just like to make up yourown rules to whatever game
you're playing.
Hello welcome to my world, ryanso welcome to why I'm not a
lawyer, uh, which is why myson's going to law school, and
one of the best friends is alawyer and now a judge.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, chris needs to be surrounded by people who care
about him, who can also protecthim and keep him out of a lot
of problems that he usuallycreates for himself.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, so Welcome to Own your Own Business, ryan,
you've done this, you've startedyour own business, you've
rocketed up and you're actuallygiving back.
We're going to talk about yourpodcast later, because one of
the things we we love about thatis that you did it, and so when
I saw your profile come up, Iwas like, oh, we've got to have
you on, so talk a little bitabout how did you get into this

(05:15):
biz to begin with, just the bizyou're in yeah, the quick
backstory, really it's.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
It didn't start with this business.
It started with another,another one when I was getting
married.
I was completely broke and $8an hour was not going to cut it,
so I decided, man, she musthave been really in love.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Oh stop right there.
It was the beard, I guess.
Back up, honey.
I don't have any money.
He's got great game, bro.
Look at me, he must have greatgame.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
He is a great singer.
Oh, dude, yeah, that's, that'slike the ultimate right.
I mean, you don't ever want toget married with money, because
then you find out later theydon't.
It wasn't the beard, you knowwhat I mean.
So no, literally I was.
I thought I invented the windowcleaning industry.
I the only experience I hadwith window cleaning was at the
gas station where you got thesqueegee with the backside
rubber thing.
I literally I went down to.
I looked in the phone book, Ifound a cleaning store thing.
I literally I went down to, Ilooked in the phone book, I
found a cleaning store.
I go down to state street.
This was back in 2001.
And I go in there and I'm likedo you guys have like a like

(06:11):
squeegees and stuff?
I want to clean windows?
You know, like the gas stationthey go.
We don't have that.
But we have this whole cleaningaisle.
And like I didn't invent thecleaning industry, it was
already there.
They had squeegees, holsters,all this stuff.
So we literally got likeknocked doors that whole summer,
made some money, made about 15grand and could afford to get
married.
I mean, it wasn't, like youknow, super posh wedding, but it
was enough to get married.

(06:31):
So that was my introduction toentrepreneurship.
I was like, wait a minute, Ican just go hustle, grind, knock
doors, make money and not haveto, like, have a boss.
That was pretty epic.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
So let's talk about that for a minute.
You know a lot of us.
How long have you been doingyour business now?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
How many years?
Well, I started my lightingbusiness in 2007.
So, whatever, that is 18 yearsnow.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
You still tell that story and you can see that
glimmer in your eye, and I'vetalked about this before.
I go back to some of the mostfun times I've had was probably
that first second year I was inwhen I was out there finishing
something up for a customer orhelping out one of my guys, and
the customer is just so thrilledand they give you $20 as a tip
and you're like wow, and here Iam now, you know, not being able

(07:18):
to see all that, just gettingthe reviews and everything that
we do, and I think a lot of uswould go back to a simpler time.
We wouldn't go back to thatsimpler money which, by the way,
I was kicking my ass kicked in,I was not making any money, but
you had that fun, you had thathustle.
Is that something where it likelit you on fire there?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, yeah, well, it was a blast.
I had never experiencedanything like that.
I had, I guess, a little bitlike even growing up I would go
knock doors and like shovelwalks and make 20 bucks and I
was like Holy cow, like I have$20, because earlier I didn't
have $20 and now I can spend $20.
So I kind of had that you knowexperience.
But I didn't.
Also, I didn't have like familyor a father to show me how to

(08:01):
start a business or anythinglike that.
I just thought that you weresupposed to go to school and
then get a job and then and thenafter school it was going to be
like a sweet job too.
You know like at least 100grand company, car cell phone,
like all the the bells andwhistles.
You know insurance.
I don't know why insurance isattractive, but it was like at

(08:21):
the time it was so yeah, thatthat was awesome he was.
He was way more progressivethan we were at that time yeah
so you didn't have anybody, likeI had a rich uncle.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
I mean, there's always somebody in your life
you're like oh, I want to belike that and that's what drives
you into.
I mean, we always talk about iton our podcast.
Entrepreneurs are either justlike extruded from the corporate
world or they came from youknow some sort of family that
was full of entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
No, I, literally I went to.
I went to school so fastforward.
I.
I did that thing for the summer, but I didn't know that I could
make that a business.
I mean, I had no confidence inthat.
I just knew that I made moneyand got married.
But then then my my goal was togo to school.
I wanted to be.
It was the.
I was going to be the first onein my family to get a degree.
I was going to change my familytrajectory forever.

(09:08):
So then I go back to school andnow I can't clean windows
because that's two hours away.
And I literally got an $8 anhour job In college.
I made $8 an hour working atthe computer lab and I was kind
of proud of it too, because Imoved up.
I started at $6 and then sevenand then eight.
Right, I didn't, I didn't know.
Yeah, like I was a badass, Iwas like assistant manager of

(09:30):
the computer lab.
You know two, two labs oncampus, all right mental image.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
This guy is really good looking, but my mental
image is like totally best by afew, or I were, you know,
assistant manager of thecomputer lab.
It would be what you think, andthen exactly ryan.
Ryan does not.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
All of a sudden, all the hot girls are like oh, I
like computers we'd have thecollared shirt with the short
sleeves and the tie that doesn'tgo a little bit under our belly
.
But the small, this small stuff.
And then we'd have the uh, thetwo tight pants and, like, um, I
got the badge that saysassistant manager right here.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, what you need, girl, I got you yeah, you need
me to pull up google for you.
Maybe a little safari, a littlechrome, what do you want?

Speaker 3 (10:09):
oh, I got your google , I got your safari.
Hey, baby, look at that, he'stalking.
All kinds of sexy talk.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Now I even took adobe class, so I learned photoshop,
illustrator.
What do you need?
You know what I mean, like talkdirty to me right?

Speaker 3 (10:23):
oh my god, he was the man and he was buried at the
time which is even more.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, that's that.
That became a problem, socounseling yeah, counseling.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Next thing, you know your wife's like what's his
problem?
Well, he is trying to pick upgirls at the computer lab at
work.
Well, his, his, his uh line isuh, do you want to hear about
adobe?

Speaker 2 (10:42):
yeah, no, really dope that's pretty much how it went
down so no I didn't have like, Ijust wanted to get a degree and
make money.
I I was driven by money,partially because I think I grew
up a single mother and wedidn't have money.
So what did she do?
She was an accountant, so sheworked for an insurance company

(11:04):
and went into work every frigginday, did the same thing for
like 30 plus years, uh, and sheset a good example for you.
Oh yeah, like hard work and getwhat you want, whatever.
But I also felt like, well,what are those guys doing across
the street because they have aboat, you know what I mean?
And we don't have a boat andwe're not even rich enough to

(11:26):
get invited to go on the boat.
You know what I mean.
So I I did get motivated to towant money just because I didn't
have it.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
I think so you didn't have the male role model.
That's so interesting, uh.
But the mother, uh, obviouslyfor a lot of us is a very big
deal.
Grandmmothers form a lot ofwhere we're at.
She taught you how to make wine, right, my grandmother?
No, she taught me how to cook.
My grandmother did not teach mehow to make wine.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh, it was the uncle.
It was all the uncles In thebathtub.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
All the bathtub.
Jim the Semido, he loves it, heloves it.
So I grew up Sicilian familyover here and so, yeah, that was
not a fun.
Actually, I look back at itvery fondly Because my guts
almost came out of my body.
How'd you?

Speaker 1 (12:09):
get to Texas.
You started in Salt Lake, right?
You grew up in Salt Lake.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
So at this time, my brother it's kind of interesting
because my brother and I arelike polar opposites, I mean,
I'm kind of like the one who'ssaving the family name.
He's kind of like trying todestroy it at the same time Are
you older or younger, I'm thebaby.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
I'm the youngest.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
And you're saving the family.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Well, it's a work in progress.
I hear you, bro.
So he moved to Texas.
We joke and say he was runningfrom the law.
But legitimately he was runningfrom the law, and I'm not
kidding when I say this at onepoint and I know it's just utah,
it doesn't compare to, you know, other 49 states, but he was
utah's most wanted at some point.
Really, yes, dude nice goldnugget.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Here we're talking to the brother of utah's most
wanted at one point this makesus true crime.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
We're gonna be in the top oh my god, our podcast.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, why you're?

Speaker 2 (13:02):
gonna go viral podcast.
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely atrue crime, no business talk.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
What did he do?
That's a whole other episode.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
We just got to plant the seed Utah's most wanted.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
He's running from the law, moves to Texas to live
with my aunt and uncle.
He's out there and he's tryingto figure out what to do His
reset.
I said, dude, I'm in collegeand I'm working on graduating.
I said you should do windowcleaning because I invented the
window cleaning industry.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
That's right Back to the window cleaning.
By the way, I invented it.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
You know what there's ?

Speaker 3 (13:36):
these stores.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
You can go buy products now.
Back then you didn't used to beable to.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
There's Steve Jobs.
There's Steve Jobs, you didn'tuse to be able to.
There's steve jobs.
There's steve jobs.
There's bill gates, and thenthere's me.
I know how to clean windows.
I've invented pretty much, yeah, still salesman even then.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
I love that but I literally said I'm like dude,
for like 750 bucks you get aladder, a squeegee, a bucket.
If you hate it, two days lateryou'll have your money back and
then you can figure out yourlife.
But, as as your younger brother, that's all I know how to do.
Go, do that.
The houses are bigger in Texasthan Utah.
People have more money.
You're going to go from like a12 window house to a 50 window
house.
You know, I think it would begood.

(14:14):
So he literally just starteddoing that and before you know
it, he's got a business notquite a full on business like
real business, but definitelysolopreneur making a hundred 150
grand a year.
And he's doing that.
Now I'm finishing school, I getmy marketing degree and then I
decided I'm going to get my MBA.
I'm in these classes and we'retalking about like scenarios of,

(14:37):
you know, manufacturing andeconomics, finance, marketing,
sales, and all I could think waslike dude'm gonna move to texas
and blow up my brother's windowcleaning company.
We're gonna take it from thissolo thing to like 26 million
locations and like bebazillionaires, right, well, I
convinced my wife.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
okay, we're gonna probably designed your yacht in
monaco already, didn't you?

Speaker 2 (15:00):
yes, it's there.
I haven't picked it up yet.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, yeah, peoples, I let them use windows of the
seas.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Ooh, I like that.
Yeah yeah.
So I'll have this master plan.
We're going to move down there.
We literally go down there andbuy a house.
Like we go down there to lookfor a house and buy a house.
We buy a house.
We're celebrating.
Oh my gosh, this is going to beso cool.
He goes oh hey, I forgot totell you I did these landscape

(15:28):
lighting jobs and I was likewhat's landscape lighting I have
.
No, I don't even know whatyou're talking about.
Oh, people like the houses, thetrees, all this.
I'm like what kind of idiotwould spend money lighting
houses and trees?
I don't even know what thatmeans.
Remember, we grew up with nomoney, right?
I said no, they spent a lot ofmoney and I did these two jobs.
They were $4,000 each.
I said, hold on one minute.
If you're telling me that I cango out and sell a $4,000 job in

(15:49):
the same time that I can go doa $250 window cleaning job, I'm
going for $4,000 all day long,right?

Speaker 3 (15:56):
All day baby.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
So literally that night, we got on Google, we
started researching domain names.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
I'm like we're not cleaning windows, we're gonna be
a lighting business and that'show we got into it.
Dude, that's awesome.
They all right.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
I but again, eight dollars an hour, kid.
Um, how did you buy a house?
Well, through that time, uh,after I graduated, I got a job
in um marketing and you know Itold you I was going to get like
six figures signing bonus yeah,that's tough it was 40 000 no
car, no benefits, gap, no,nothing.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
The 40 000 once upon a time, was the number dude uh
that was our, our age even then.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Um I, I.
So.
I went to school, got mymaster's degree.
All my buddies did not.
I got my master's in mechanicalengineering, almost got my PhD,
long story short, did not dothat here.
I am really smarter than themand I meet my wife, who was my
girlfriend at the time, andthey're all making three times
as much as my $38,000 a year job.

(17:01):
I'm like.
So much for being smart dumbass.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Right, that's how I feel.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
And oh, by the way, you get to work six days a week
in manufacturing which I went.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
So it took me four years to get my marketing degree
.
I got that marketing job for 40grand.
Then I decided, so I got my mbawhile working.
So it was like the executivemba, you know okay, solid means
you're working while you getyour mba?

Speaker 1 (17:23):
yeah, follow you, yep all right, so that's how you're
qualified uh, that wasdefinitely pressure from the
father-in-law.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
There you go.
He was like listen, um, ifyou're gonna amount to anything,
you're gonna get an mba.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Really, I don't know that he said those words, but
that's what I heard I hear you,my, my daughter was in love with
you for eight dollars an hour,but you better get your mba,
yeah all right, so I'll just 4040 grand a year.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Although for us we didn't have any kids at the time
I was like dude, we're richlike we never had this kind of
money, you know uh, when I metmy wife, uh, she was working at
ibm in charlotte, north carolina, um and um.
The first time I met her family, I was in grad school, and all
of them are from detroit,michigan, and we all worked in
the automotive industry one wayor the other.

(18:14):
And when I went back, they alllooked at me and the first time
I met them, literally they linedup to say goodbye, because I
went to meet them atThanksgiving and they're all in
the Italian family too.
And they all came up to me andsaid hey, if you need a job, hey
, sounds like you're done onyour luck.
Hey, if you need a job, hey,you, you know we always can get
you on the line.
Hey, and I was like your wholefamily thinks I'm deadbeat.

(18:37):
What the hell.
She goes well, you don't makeany money and I work for ibm.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, but, but,but I'm going to be a mechanical
.
I mean, I'm going to be a.
You know, I'm getting my phd.
And she goes yeah, my familydoesn't understand that.
They're electricians, lineworkers, uh, uh, machinists.
I'm like, yeah, but I was amachinist.

(18:57):
They're like, yeah, but they,they, they think you can't
figure out how to get a job, soyou went to school.
I'm like, oh, my god that's howI felt.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I mean, I'm pretty sure family freaking, I'm pretty
sure her dad was like that.
And now that, now that my kidsare getting older, I understand
it a lot more.
I got a daughter who's a seniorand I'm going to like vet these
guys that she's going to date,right.
But at the time I'm like, dude,screw off, like you don't know
who I am, you don't know who I'mgoing to become.
Like why are you judging me?
But obviously he's looking outfor his daughter.
But I think it was like, dude,this guy is not going to perform

(19:37):
.
He's coming from a divorcedhave, a uh, a good trajectory.
What's he gonna do?
So I was like, okay, I'll do mymba.
Like I just you know I'm gonnawork and I'll do it at night.
Um, during that time, I workedat that marketing company for a
year and I was getting like,dude, I'm worth more than this.
This is pissing me off.
I was asking for raises, I wasasking for more work.
They were like, nope, this iswhat you do.
So I went and got a sales job.
I was like, no, I'm gonna gomake money.
And I went and interviewed.
I sucked at interviewing.
It took me like literally like50 interviews.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I'm not even kidding did you just like go look at me?
No, I mean alan, really, sothat wouldn't work.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Okay, you're hired he's joking, because he was at
enterprise you would have hiredhim in a heartbeat.
100 right, but he has to havechops yeah, but he does well.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, but I didn't know what I knew now I didn't
have the confidence.
I didn't.
I mean, this was you know, I'm21 years old, right?
So I'm trying to.
Now I'm 25 years old, I'minterviewing for these, I'm
interviewing for these jobs now,I'm sorry.
No, you know when I'minterviewed for these jobs, I
get the sales job my no.
You know, when I'm interviewedfor these jobs, my very first

(20:37):
year I make a hundred grand.
I'm like the top rep that's howI afforded the house.
Like I started making somereally good money and I was like
, hey, do you guys care if Ijust work from Texas, like if I
moved to Texas, can I workremote?
And this is crazy.
This is before COVID, beforeremote workers existed.
They're like yeah, you'rekilling it for us, we don't care
where you work from, just keepdoing your thing.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
So you're able to build your business as a side
hustle while you're getting afull-time kick.
All right, that's awesome,great move.
All right, you went down there,brother, down there on the lam
doing this when in Texas,dallas-fort Worth.
Okay, so you can't find them,and let's face it, that last
name, you can't find them.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, I can't tell you any more specifics.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, we're going to leave it right there, so for
that first year I did both.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
And what was kind of crazy is I had big, big goals
for the lighting business and wedidn't hit those numbers.
But we did $350,000 our firstyear and those numbers.
But we did 350 grand our firstyear and I was and I was still
working full time.
But now, instead of the top rep, I was not the fifth rep, the
10th, I was like 15, 20, I mean,I just wasn't.
You can't be a master at both,you can't.
You can't do both.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah so we use that to seed the business.
You got into it.
You started landscape lighting.
You, uh, you guys totallyditched uh window cleaning
because you can only make somany dollars.
$7 a window, what was it?
What would you guys charge awindow?

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Well, dude, when I started I had no idea I was
charging three bucks a window inand out and I was like, but it
was like 15 bucks an hour.
I was like double the normalrate.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
So I didn't know what I didn't know.
But you know that now is thatit should have been seven a
window all day long.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, now I I pay to get my windows cleaned and it's
eight dollars a pane, so you'retalking like 16 a window.
Yeah right, oh well, and Ihappily pay it because I don't
want to clean windows.
I got better shit I gotta do.
I can make more than that I'llnever forget.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
As a handyman company we uh we cleaned windows.
Once I quoted it, the ladycalled me up and said next time
somebody tells you or asks youto clean windows, just tell her
or him.
You don't know how to.
It was that bad.
I said I'll come back and fixit.
My guy had streaks all over theflipping place.
I was like you're right, becauseback in the day it was seven,

(22:53):
seven inside and out.
That was before 19.
But here we are in 2025.
Building materials have gone up40%.
Yeah, just in five years, laborhas gone up another X percent.
Doesn't matter, the numbers wehave in our head have got to
stop, because that's just notthe truth.
So you get into lighting, andit's definitely a luxury

(23:14):
business, it's a want not a need.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Did you do any uh crazy jobs for dallas cowboys or
anything like that, anycelebrity jobs and?

Speaker 2 (23:25):
we yeah, we did.
We did some high-end jobs, forsure, and some of them you have
to sign an nda and, like you,you literally can't say anything
about it.
What did they want to light up?

Speaker 1 (23:34):
what's that?
What did they want to light up?
What's that?
What did they want to light?

Speaker 2 (23:36):
up, just their house, their pool area, their cabanas,
all that, actually, the moreinteresting people were like.
I remember I went and did aquote for a Dallas Cowboys
player one time.
And this is the challenge whenyou deal with some of these
well-known public figures, evenif they're not even well-known,
if they, if they're making money, they, if they don't trust you

(23:57):
like a thousand percent, thenthey think you're screwing them
over.
I went and gave a quote to alady.
We set up a demo, showed herwhat it was going to look like.
There wasn't much to light, tobe honest, and it was only 3000
bucks.
I told her hey, it's 3000 bucks.
Are you kidding me?
What are you ripping me off?
Because my husband's on theteam?
Blah, blah, blah.
I mean, she went off on me, wow, kicked me off the property and

(24:17):
I'm like three thousand dollars, that's our minimum like if you
had more I would charge youmore.
There's, this is all like this.
Is it like this is gonna?
This is what it looks like.
It's three grand.
You can't find anyone to do itfor less.
I mean you can always findsomeone cheaper, but you're not
gonna find better, you know solet's talk about that for a
minute, because I want to diveinto the sales process.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
We talk a lot and we've, you've, you've been on,
you have your own podcast andwe're going to get to that in a
minute.
Um, but the sales process.
What did you learn and where doyou feel like your sales guys
now need to understand the salesprocess the best?

Speaker 2 (24:48):
well, I learned a lot , um, through that experience.
Many others, um, I, I developeda whole sales process based on
all the mistakes I made.
So one of the tips like thatlady had no idea and if you've
never had landscape lighting andyou hear an average job is
$12,000, that's going to seemhigh to you because you just
don't have a reference.
Someone could have a $300,000car sitting in their front yard

(25:11):
and still think $10,000 forlighting is expensive because
they've never paid it Right, butthey know that those types of
cars cost 300,000.
So no big deal.
So one of the tools that Ireally started using was called
the price marinade, so we wouldtell people up front on the
phone pre-qualifying.
Hey, just so you know, ourminimum is about 3,500 and an

(25:31):
average job is between eight and10.
Does that sound about like whatyou're looking for?
And some people would be likeno, that's a lot of money.
I thought it was going to be500 bucks.
You know what?
Feel free to look around If youfeel like you know you guys
decide to do professionallighting.
You'll see that it actually hasa lot more than 500.
We'd love to come out and callyou, but totally understand,
don't want to waste your timeand we wouldn't go out there.

(25:53):
Sometimes those people call youback two days later and be like
you know what, we just didn'tknow.
We did ask around our friendsand it turns out that's what it
is.
Why don't you guys come out andgive us a quote?

Speaker 3 (26:02):
So you have a pre-qualified lead and you did
not waste your time educatingsomebody and sending somebody
out for an $80 lead or a $100lead that you paid for for
somebody to drive out there,just to tell somebody that, well
, what were you thinking?
Well, I was thinking that thereare solar lights that you can
just plop in for $1 a piece fromthe dollar store.

(26:23):
That's not what we're talkingabout, man and sometimes you can
get the bite, but sometimesyou've got to do that price
condition.
So I think again,pre-qualifying your customer is
such a big thing.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
It totally starts with that.
It saves a lot of frustrationon both ends and I, you know as
much as I was pissed that ladywasted my time.
She's still pissed at me that Iwasted hers.
She just didn't know.
So it would have been real easyto have that phone call or
conversation on the phone to say, hey, this is where it is.
The problem is know, especiallywith lighting, people, even
rich people, go to costco andyou can get a kit for like 500

(26:56):
bucks.
So then they're like what's itgoing to cost 500 bucks to get
this installed?
It's like, well, maybe, but notfrom us.
You know like we're going touse much higher quality lights
with 10, 15 year warranties.
We're going to put a designtogether.
We're going to actually buryyour wire.
Do proper connections, properwiring methods, proper
transformers.
Make sure everything's vaultedright.
There's a lot more to aprofessional lighting

(27:17):
installation than a diy allright.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
So as you grew your business, um, you started to
figure out the priceconditioning, do this, do that,
um, what were some of the bigthings you had to learn from
scaling?

Speaker 2 (27:31):
well, one was, you know I.
I thought it was just easier tojust do it yourself.
It's so hard to um learn todelegate, because the first time
you ever do something you suckat it.
So the first time you hiresomeone you tell them hey, do
this thing, and they don't do it.
They don't do it the way you,you think they should, and the
problem is your common sense isnot their common sense.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
It's not common, my friends.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Common sense is not common.
Yeah, they would own thebusiness and you would be
reporting to them, type thing.
So that was a really hard thingto learn, because you try it
once you hire someone, you tellthem what to do with your common
sense.
They don't do it.
So you're like screw it, I'mgoing back, I'm just going to
stay small.
And you gave up on all thispotential of your future

(28:17):
opportunities just because youweren't good at training, just
because you weren't good atdelegating.
That, to me, is the hardestpart of scaling.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, great point, I love that one.
All right, so you went downthere, you and your brother.
You go into business together.
Did you stay in businesstogether?

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Well, that's why we're here.
So I read this book calledTraction, and Traction is like
the Bible.
It's like, yeah, gino.
So I read that book andliterally midway through and
talking about some differentthings of hiring and the right
person in the right seats, Iknew when I was reading that
book that my brother and I weregoing to have to break up
because we basically were twovisionaries.

(28:54):
We were two people in one boxtrying to run the company.
He wants to go left and he wantsto go to the lake and wake surf
and you know party.
And I want to go right to buildan empire.
I want to do we're going toHouston, austin, we're going to
blow this thing up, exit for 50mil.
Like, I'm going big.
He's like, dude, you work toomuch.
I'm like you don't work enough.
So, like, if he wants to goleft and I want to go right, we

(29:16):
go right down the middle.
No one's happy and that's thatwas this huge epiphany.
So done, he's like dude, I'myou're.
I'm a guy for you're thebusiness guy.

(29:36):
I can fix stuff, I'm streetsmart, but I can't do this.
So he ended up buying me out ofthe business in 2019 okay and
it worked out well.
You guys are still brothers,still brothers, it's not you
know a lot of people will go ohman, I want to do what you did
and sell your, sell my business.
I'm like, why, like, I want todo what you did and sell my
business.
I'm like, why, like, if youknew the whole reason why I sold

(29:57):
my business, I didn't want tosell my business.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
You sold it for your family.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, why would you spend 10 years building
something and then give someonethe upside Like?
That was a huge on papermistake on my part, but it
wasn't a mistake, it just had tobe done and it's.
It's been really good for mebecause I didn't make a ton of
money off that exit, but what itallowed me to do is do what I
want to do Right.
And now there's one visionaryat the top of a company and I
get to steer the ship.

(30:22):
And so now I started landscapelighting secrets where we
basically it's a community, it'sa coaching and community
program where we help otherpeople start and grow their own
landscape lighting businessesand collapse time.
Just eliminate all the mistakesI made over 12 years, basically
.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Love it, man.
Collapse time.
I love that phrase.
That's a great phrase.
And you're still great withyour brother, so that's huge.
You know, coming from anItalian family where they say
blood's thicker than water, Ican argue that one a lot,
because there's a reason.
I went into business by myselfand didn't involve any of my
family.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
So you started a podcast in landscape lighting,
which is as niche-y as I canpossibly imagine.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
It has to be.
It has to be the niche-iestniche I've ever niched.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
It is the niche-iest niche of niches.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
He's the niche-iest niche of ever niches.
Put that in the gold nuggetswell, it's kind of crazy.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
So I I didn't even mean like.
I didn't mean like, oh, I'mgonna sell my business and then
I'm gonna coach others and likethis is the plan.
Like no, I don't, I don't knowhow to plan that.
Like there's no way I couldfigure this out.
When I sold my business, I wastrying to figure out what I
wanted to do.
I was doing some digitalmarketing for, for, for people.
I had friends that ownbusinesses and like dude, how do
what you did with your companyfor us?
I'm like, okay.

(31:37):
So I was doing Facebook ads,online reviews, um, google ads,
websites, and I was doing, okay,covid happened, half my clients
fired me.
I don't know if you guysremember, but like everyone was
freaking out and they were likedude, we don't know what we're
going to do.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
You think, yeah, yeah , they, they and they were like
dude we don't know what we'regoing to do.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
You think yeah, yeah, and I was kind of relieved
because I was like dude, I hatethis.
Like these were some of thekind of friends of mine and one
month they'd be like dude,you're awesome man, you got us
60 leads Like this is freakingphenomenal.
The next month they're likedude, must be nice in Utah
riding dirt bikes and mountainbiking.
Huh, we only got 30 leads, bro.
I'm like you only got 30 leads.

(32:14):
Like I'm sorry that you'resuccessful and they're like well
, but the month before was 60.
I'm like okay, like we're nothaving this conversation what's
a utah version of?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
you're dead to me, chris.
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (32:25):
uh, that's a good one .
Yeah, how do you use that?
Yeah, you from utah went totexas.
Probably figure out some reallycolorful words out of texas.
So do you do in Utah, whensomebody says that and you can't
say, go fuck yourself, that'sexactly right.
So what do you say?

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Like because in the South we say bless your heart,
yeah, yeah, I say bless yourheart, and then just don't
answer their phone call anymore.
Yeah, you know, I love it,especially when people go.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Well, chris you're so crude.
I love it, especially whenpeople go well, chris, you're so
crude.
We bless their hearts.
I'm like you're saying the samething, you're just saying it
differently, and you're justputting a velvet glove over that
.
Brass knuckles that I'm flyingthrough anyway, let's go.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
They weren't bad breakups.
It just was like you know what.
I totally understand.
I'm sorry that you don't wantto work with me and I'm grateful
.
You know grateful.
So then then I started going.
You know what?
I have a chance.
I have a real chance right nowto reset and do it whatever I
want in my life.
What do I really want to do?
And I was at a marketingconference and they were talking
about what you're calling andwhat are you good at and what
are you pro at.
And I'm like I don't know.
I'm like decent at a lot ofstuff, but I've never really

(33:27):
thought I'm like the best atanything.
But I kept coming back to this,like I was like mountain biking
, dirt biking, fishing I likethese things, but I'm not going
to teach someone how to do it,even lighting, like there's
people that are better than me.
But I just kept coming back toit and I had people reaching out
saying how did you grow alighting business to like a few
million dollars a year?
That's insane.
You only did lighting.
And, like you didn't do drugs,you didn't sell anything.

(33:48):
I'm like no, just lighting.
So I hired a coach and I saidhelp me put this together.
I want to teach people how togrow their businesses and I was
going to be home service secrets.
I was just going to teachpainters anyone who's dealing
with a homeowner let me teachyou my proven processes.
But my coach was the one thatgoes dude every time you talk
about lighting.

(34:08):
That's when you light up, likeyou don't care about roofers and
painters and stuff, like, andyou've never done that, like
just be the lighting guy.
And I'm like but the lightingguy is like too niche, like
who's gonna listen?
Is there?
Is there, I don't even know ifthe industry is that big.
So, um, I decided to kind ofalmost prove him wrong.
I was like all right, I'll showyou.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah, right and uh screw you, dude, because I know
there's money, more riches, my,my boat's in Monaco still
waiting for me.
It's not on the Lighting Prospodcast, exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
All that said, what is the size of the lighting
industry in the US?
Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
It's freaking awesome .
I mean I just don't see myselfdoing anything else because we
have so many people now in ourprogram and then I decided to
start a podcast.
I'm like you know what I'mgoing to.
This is going to be mymarketing tool.
I'm going to build an audienceand, uh, it's literally my
number one lead generator is mypodcast, because you get to
build this relationship withpeople and and let them into

(35:07):
your life and tell these storiesand everything else.
So we don't have, we're nevergonna have, millions of
followers, but it doesn't matter.
Like the people that do listen,the people that do follow,
we're changing their lives andit's never like I don't.
Really.
I joke around like, oh, we'regoing to go viral, but I don't
want to go viral.
I just want to go viral withinthe lighting community, viral

(35:29):
where it matters.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, I would still want to go viral.
I am.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
I'm a whore.
I'm a whore, come on.
Hey, I'm an italian whore, sohe can't imagine that so anyway
so back to this.
I think one of the things thatpeople uh miss and it's really
scary to niche down, but youknow it, we know it, we've
talked about it to a ton ofpeople, you got a, got a niche
man.
I mean our podcast.
We're serving people trying toscale a small business.

(35:57):
We've talked about this overand over.
We're in entrepreneurship.
Wish we were in true crime.
Almost got there.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
We almost did today.
You're welcome.
We've done it a couple of times, right.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
We've been there a couple of other times.
One of them is probably thebest one ever Paul burleson, who
just got inducted into thenational hall of fame for uh
home services are you?
Serious.
I didn't even know what that is, but that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Paul burleson.
Yeah, he's a great dude.
Did he make?
Did he make that up like doeshe come up with his own awards?
Seriously, that's a great idea,ryan I don't know, paul, I do
that I made.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
I don't know if you guys know this, but I'm the host
of the number one landscapelighting podcast in the world
well, and you invented uh windowcleaning it's the only way I
love that, you know, I love thechutzpah of a young man saying
but go back to when you're a kid, is it chutzpah or is it
chutzpah?

Speaker 2 (36:45):
well, I don't know, since I I gotta google that
jewish friend ever means yeahthat I ever met my life.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
You don't use jewish words if you don't know how to
say it.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
I have Jewish friends .

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Now I can say that.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
How do you spell it?
I don't think it works that way.
What is it, chespa?

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Chespa is a Spanish language word.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yes, let's go.
That's not what you were saying.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Remember.
I lived in Texas.
We don't speak Jewish, we speakSpanish.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
We speak, we speak.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Spanish, we don't speak.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
We speak.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
We're not part of the US.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
I know that one.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
My son's in a school in Waco, Texas.
We speak Texan.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Holy crap, you were in Dallas, which is a little bit
more metropolitan, but man,when you got to Waco, man, there
is one country and they call itTexas.
It ain't the US, bro.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Absolutely.
I was like, no, we're all partof it.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Thank God for them.
Yeah, no, it's hilarious.
They have their own truck downthere, their own pickup model.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, and you should buy a Ford.
No, it's still Chevy no it'snot.
It is F-150.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Settle the story right now.
What do you drive?
Does this how it ends?
He probably drives a Prius.
It's not going to end.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Don't say that, ryan, are you serious?
Don't ruin it.
Don't you dare say that aboutRyan, that handsome good-looking
man drives a big Chevy truck.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
He drives a Ford no.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
The reason I drive a Ram is because it's got six
seats for my four kids and mywife.
But I do want a Ford.
I've got two Ford Broncos andthen my truck is my Ram.
So I would be driving a Ford ifI could get the six we will
allow that.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
All right, I will not allow that.
But Ken, coming from Detroit,you have no idea.
Growing up, my dad bought Iguess this story is so adjunct,
but I'm going to do it anyway.
My dad bought a Suzuki back inthe day what I know because he
had to go back and forth to hisfacility, because he was a civil

(38:48):
engineer and he had to keepgoing back and forth.
So he bought it.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Sam in a Suzuki?
I don't see it.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
I know, and it was a stick shift, which again it was
the cheapest thing you could buy, because that's Sam, so cheap,
and that's my dad, my dad's fromBuffalo, new York, son of an
Italian immigrant, the wholething, and he gets it.
So I go out, I take the car outto meet my girlfriend and I

(39:14):
show up at their parents' houseand Grandpa's there and Grandpa
sees me and likes me, grandpaand the entire family supplies
parts to the Big Three back inthe day.
This is you know.
And he sees me, he waves, helocks the door and walks away.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
I thought he was joking.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
He was like don't ever come to this house again
with that car and I was like, oh, uh, heard, done.
That is awesome.
Yeah, we're going back to theoldsmobile.
So, all right, ryan, you'vedone.
You found your passion.
You know it's hard to do whatyou've done the leap, but also I
don't.
I have to imagine what was thehardest of all of them Going out
there and hustling, when it wasa single mom doing windows,
going out there, moving down tobrother starting a landscaping

(40:03):
lighting business, leavingbrother and starting your own
business.
What was the hardest of thosethree?

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Hardest one was the middle of the lighting business.
I wouldn't say the hardest wasgetting started, because there's
that honeymoon phase whereyou're like, dude, I don't give
a shit if I'm not making anymoney, we're just having fun.
You know, like this is theamerican dream to be broke and
out doing what I want and nothaving a boss.
But I would say after that,like years three through nine,

(40:31):
that grind phase was the worst.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah yeah, I think that's where people uh miss that
.
You said that three throughnine and it wasn't like all bad
because you're in the middle ofit and you're you're digging.
But you're digging and you'relike you're digging, wait a
minute, my, my boat in monaco isstill waiting for me and I've
got the name picked out alreadyand it's going to be an awesome
name.
What was it again?

Speaker 2 (40:54):
windows of the sea, windows of the seas.
I think that's what windows ofthe seas yeah, thank you for
reminding me.
I actually forgot that it wassitting there.
I'm assuming they're charteringit out or something.
Yeah, they're waiting for you.
They're waiting for you people.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
You're like, no, I can do this, but you're like, no
, but the america dream is, I'msupposed to be broke.
You go back to the mostromantic phase of all of our
businesses.
It was the beginning, um, andhow we did it.
But where do we want to be?
And you know, people say yourwhy and alan, we talk about this
a lot.
My why has evolved so hard and,yeah, so many different ways is
it?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
really um, yeah, from like big boat and fast cars to
fast cars and big boat it justchanges the order.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yeah, I think so no, so not fast cars.
I'm out because I can't getinto those things anymore.
Is that why you're justdrinking water.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
You're trying to slim down so you can get into a fast
car.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
You want like a CRV, like a Honda CRV, oh my God.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
You just said blasphemy.
You know what?
Honestly see again Honda CRV.
That's not in the fucking Bibleyou can't say that.
But for me that's a bad wordthat's worse than the F word.
Well, you can say it, becauseit's not in the Bible, exactly.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
You can use that one.
So how old are your kids now?
Ryan, We've got 17, 15, 12, and10.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Talk about your wife a little bit.
She's had to put up with a lot.
She bought into eight bucks anhour.
She went to Texas, I'm assuming, oh yeah, raising the kids.
She's still here.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
I don't know how, but it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
What's the beard?
We know that.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah, obviously it's the good looks.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
It's crazy, dude, if I didn't have her.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Someone's got to be raising these kids.
You think I'm taking them alltheir stuff and doing their.
She's literally over thereright now doing homework with
the kids.
Like my kids would be dropouts.
They would be nothing like.
It would be a bad situationover here burden on society.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Do not for your wife do not take that as a reason not
to go with ryan and hiscoaching uh, with landscape
secrets, because he's here tocoach you, not his kids.
Yeah, exactly, I'll leave themto the, to the wife yeah, no it,
and that's that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Like, when they were young, I didn't.
I, I was not a good dad.
It's not that I was a bad dad,but I just wasn't present.
And what's crazy, you talkabout your why.
My whole purpose of doing thisand being successful and like
doing this thing and showing theworld was so that I could be
the dad that I didn't have.
And and then, ironically, I'mout looking at lights, doing
demos, moving lights arounduntil midnight and my wife's

(43:23):
going where the hell are you?
We're popping out kids likecrazy.
So we literally went to therapyto figure this shit out.
She had to call me out and tellme you suck.
And I'm still grateful for that, because I didn't know.
I literally just thought Ididn't have this example of like
this mold, like this is whatyou got to be, and that's one of
my whys now is like, hey guys,this isn't just about making

(43:46):
money, it's what has to be trueto make money and be a good
father, mother, leader, becauseyou don't have to pick one over
the other.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
For years I did and unfortunately, I chose my
business and I didn't have toyou didn't know what you wanted
to be, but she helped you seewhat you needed to be.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yeah, yeah, but it's way more intentional now it's,
it's still a hard uh it you know, back to the.
Remember the old seesaws, ellen, oh yeah, yeah, it's a hard
seesaw to balance, you know, uh,because we talk about work-life
balance and, um, people thinkit's 50, 5050, and, brother, it
ain't.
It never is, it just is not.
Not if you're going to do this,not if you're going to start

(44:25):
your own business, what you doget is personal freedom for your
time, which is awesome, so youget a chance to be involved with
your kids and present at themost important times of their
life, whether it's sports orafter school activities.
And then maybe you're workingto the wee hours after they go
to bed or whatever it is.
But promise you, it is not easy, it's still hard.

(44:46):
You have to go back after itand get after it and go work and
later doing the other thingsearlier.
You're getting up at 5 aminstead of 6 am.
You're doing things earlier soyou can be there when they wake
up, get them off to school.
I mean, that's the part that'srewarding the reason.
When I started my business Ilook back on I was in a country
club community.
All the entrepreneurs wereplaying golf on friday afternoon

(45:09):
and I was down at the bankworking and I started saying
wait a minute, among otherthings.
I was like how come you guysare all golfing on Friday, you
guys are all made, and then youfind out after you get into it.
Yeah, they golfed on Friday,but guess what they did on
Saturday morning Worked.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Saturday and sometimes Sunday.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
Uh-huh, amen, that's what we did, but you do it
because you love it, but that'swhere you're able to be a
present father, and so it's hard, but it's fun, man, it's so
rewarding right oh yeah, I mean,the thing that I wish I would
have done earlier is just beintentional, because, like, if
you want to golf fridays, youtotally can.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
If you want to golf wednesday, like you actually can
have freedom.
But the problem is we start ourbusinesses for the freedom and
then we don't have enoughintention behind it, so it
actually becomes a trap andwe're like handcuffed and we
have to go do all these thingsbecause we we think that it
requires us to do everything.
So we're putting out all thesefires.
So what we do is we help peopleprevent the fire from happening

(46:12):
altogether, you know, and thenreplace yourself early, early on
, so that you're not wearingthese five, six different hats,
and then it's actually fun.
Like on, so that you're notwearing these five, six
different hats, and then it'sactually fun.
Like you should have fun everyday at work.
You shouldn't be pissed likecrap.
It's Monday, I got to go in,you start this thing.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Well, I do that every Monday anyway.
It still doesn't matter, 17years into it.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Brian, do you help people other than people in the
lighting business?
Not right now.
I mean, it's not that like.
If someone wants to call me,I'm like do you do lighting?
No, all right, screw off you're.
You're dead to me, doublefingers from birds yeah, pretty
much I'm anti anything lighting,so you don't do lighting well
screw you.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
You're gone.
You're a loser.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I guess you hate money and you hate your life.
Enjoy being miserable wisdomfrom ryan.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Droplets from ryan right, I just I was to the bone
to ryan.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Ryan says do you love lighting?

Speaker 1 (47:05):
no, I was testing his commitment to the niche
pre-qualify, pre-qualify babyway big right.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
We've.
We've had a painting pros guyon who said I said hey, would
you uh, happen stance like takea handyman up at atlanta?
No, and he went, no.
I said, even if he's at fivemillion a year, he goes.
No, I'm like wow, that'sdedication.
I said I'm not kidding, I'll,I'll spend money with you, you

(47:31):
still know.
I'm like all right, fair enoughlet me how much we talking.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Right, but he, but he stopped.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
I was like all right man, I was like all right, but
stay true to it, because yourniche is bringing the riches.
We talked about that.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yes, no, I love the lighting community.
It's definitely my passion.
But seriously, how much?

Speaker 3 (47:53):
were you talking?
I love Ryan.
He's still got it, baby.
All right, let's go.
We got our famous fourquestions, Ryan.
Before we do that, how doeseverybody find you and your
podcast and who you are?

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Well, just, you know Google or something, I don't
know.
So I've got a few differentthings.
I got my YouTube and Instagramat Landscape Lighting Secrets.
On both of those, ryan Lee onFacebook, but there's multiple

(48:24):
Ryan Le lee's so I don't knowhow to write me there.
You're tough, you need a lot ofmia.
Yeah, there's a lot of ryan lee.
So, uh, my podcast is lightingfor profits and I will say I do
have people that comment andleave reviews on there.
Like man, I'm not, I'm inpainting, I'm in another
industry.
This is all helpful stuff.
So, like, screw you.
Yeah, I'm like, pleaseunsubscribe.
Like, if you give me anotherfive-star review again, I'm
coming after you, bitch right,come on, man, you got to get me
back on there.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
We got it.
Let me, let's come on, we'llchop it up.
I'll kill those lighting guys.
I'll tell them all kinds ofstupid handyman, stupid landing
landscaping stories I've everdone.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
They're gonna love me yeah, we don't want to muddy up
the waters, we don't want themgetting diluted here.
You know, we want them to stay,stay in the lane with lighting.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Keep me away from them, then, all right.
All right, let's go back to it.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Look at this guy.
He's super niched.
He's got the background and hisshirt that he's wearing, dude,
it's the same as the background.
I mean he's laser focus.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
I love brand, but hey , I mean, I mean seriously right
, and can I bring the pipesright, bringing it down?
I got the trusted toolbox.
Let's's go, all right, let's goGive us a book that you would
recommend to our audience.
Trying to scale a business, tostart a business.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
The first book that I read that got me going on my
path not the first book ever,but the first book like business
book was E-Myth EntrepreneurialMyth.
Yeah, man.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Gerber's been a classic.
Yeah, so good.
It helped me actually in themiddle of it.
It helped me stop being sofrustrated because I wanted to
be the big brain, I wanted to bethe manager and I wasn't the
best technician in the world.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Look at the big brains on Chris.
Look at me, baby, I got bigbraids.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
All right.
What I thought the entrepreneurwas was you're supposed to be
good at all those?
It gave me the same thing itgave me.
It liberated me from thisfeeling of like why do I suck at
being a manager, like is this,like other people are better
than me at this and it's like,yeah, because they figured out
that they're not good at amanager and they just hired out
so that was right, that was huge.
So e-myth the second one.
Let me just throw that out.

(50:12):
There is newer book called buyback your time, and the reason
why I like that one is because,once you understand the e-myth
and understand the whole process, buy back your time, like this,
is the whole blueprint forreplacing yourself and going
from operating your business toowning it.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
So he talks about hire an admin, then you're going
to replace fulfillment or yourinstallation, whatever it is
then you're going to replacesales, write down, buy back your
time and edit this out, but shewon't.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
But it doesn't matter kidding cindy, give me the
cliff's notes on buy back yourtime.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
All right, love that one oh yeah, cindy, really tell
me.
Tell me how to buy back by timeI love that.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
All right, what's a favorite feature of your home?
Feature of my home lighting theoutdoor lighting bro what do
you got?

Speaker 1 (50:58):
so what does the lighting guy have on his own
home?

Speaker 3 (51:00):
You gotta send us an email on that one, Is it like?
I wanna see what it looks like.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Just like you know the whole neighborhood Woo.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
No, I'm thinking we turn our lights on and the whole
state just dims.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
I'm talking Christmas vacation lights Every night.
Oh, there goes Ryan againshowing off yeah, everybody.
And he's got a big penis in themiddle of it.
Go down, look at me.
No it's actually not that atall, but somehow you threw that
in there.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
No, it's tasteful lighting.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
That's the thing.
Welcome to my world, Ryan.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Yeah, a lot of it always goes back to penises with
him.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
I don't know why it really does, still watching for
the Pope and talking aboutpenises.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
That's the reason we have confession every Saturday
morning.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Typical Catholic joke , right oh.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
God All right.
Oh my God, oh, here we go, youready.
Can you handle it?

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Outdoor lighting.
That's my favorite feature.
Outdoor lighting, of course.
Specifically what though?

Speaker 2 (52:04):
He outplays the convention which outdoor
lighting.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Yeah, I mean.
What is it?
I mean, does your house lookamazing compared to everybody in
the street?

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Well, yeah, I mean, of course, but I don't know.
So if I I don't know Like, Ilike my backyard, we built a
pool last year, so that's fun.
Okay, when you say feature like, do you want me to name like a?

Speaker 1 (52:24):
specific peak.
No, I just kind of want to knowin outdoor lighting like.
What is the deal?
What is the big deal?
Like what?

Speaker 3 (52:32):
So I have outdoor lighting on the front of the
house.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
If you're, chris, yeah but did you get
professionally designed the youwant your neighbors to say suck
it yeah I do, by the way.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
That's right.
What do you send you?

Speaker 2 (52:44):
I'll send you guys some some photos of like yeah,
we're gonna post those photos.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
Go check me out instagram, chris lalamia.
I'm gonna post those things outthere.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
We'll get it and it's gonna be under chris lalamia
hashtag.
Suck it, oh yeah, 100 everytime, and thanks to ryan.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah, because most people don't know what good
outdoor lighting looks like.
Like any lights better than nolight.
I agree, can be a challenge,because you probably think your
house looks good where you sendme your picture.
I'm going to tear it apart.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
I'm going to tell you dollar lights in the backyard
because my wife put them outthere and I was like, I'm like,
and that probably looks good toyou.
My wife can spend some money,bro, so I was like I wasn't
gonna tell her give me yournumber yeah, I know, yeah, ryan
ryan, this is a good prospectfor you, she goes, those look
good.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
I'm like, yeah, baby, those look great, I just love
if nicole says this is what Iwant, that's what chris buys,
that's exactly well, that's whyhe's a good husband.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Yeah, yeah, so I got the front yards all lit up at
the backyard with the pool.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah, I'm like all right all right, I I did have a
guy and he lived in like myneighborhood in texas, was like
a just a what I call a regularneighborhood 250 000 home and he
spent like 14 000 on lighting.
And I'm like, what the heck isit like?
Did you?
Did you hear?
Did you hear what I said?
It wasn't 1400, it's 14 000.
I'm like, dude, you're, you'relike, and he, he's like, yeah,

(53:59):
is that not normal?
I said no, it's totally normal.
Yeah, and he told me he goeswhat Mrs Martin wants, mrs
Martin gets.
Yeah, and I'll always rememberthat.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Never write the check for the customer that they want
to write Exactly.
You will never spend that money, but if they want to, god love
them, let's go.
Yeah right, all right.
Next question so we talk aboutcustomer service and we've been
talking about a little bit, justonce in a while a little bit
yeah so, but we're kind ofcustomer service freaks let's go

(54:30):
, alan.
What's a customer service?
Pet peeve of yours.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
When you are out there, you're the customer well,
actually I got uh two that cometo mind.
Number one, you know, what Ihate is and this happens, I
don't know how it's like theuniverse is god's trying to tell
me something, I don't know.
I go into a restaurant and Isay, yeah, table for two.
And they, instead of being likewelcoming, they're like okay,
um, it's gonna be like five tosix minute wait.

(54:56):
And I'm like and and and thenwhat?
Like?
What are you talking?
Are you trying to talk me outof coming into the restaurant
right now?
Like, why don't you say it in anice way, to be like no, not a
worries, if you want to have aseat, we'll get you seated in
the next five to ten minutes.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
You just hit it right you just hit it with oh my god,
I had a sales guy.
I'm training him right now.
So we do the whole salesprocess.
We're in handyman remodelingbusiness and we're doing
handyman and he does the wholething.
We go through 35, 40 minuteswith this guy and he looks at
the guy and says so, do you havea hope?

(55:31):
Number?
okay no, not really.
He goes well.
It looks like it's gonna bebetween 22, $2,200 and $2,500.
I'm like, dude, you're likewe're telling a eulogy.
I'm like here comes the end ofour relationship.
I've enjoyed our 35 minutes,but now it's all over, Because
I'm sorry to tell you that foryou to have everything taken

(55:53):
care of that you just got toldit's going to be this much money
for us?

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Oh, we're not going to work, is it?

Speaker 3 (55:58):
that you just got told it's going to be this much
money for us, we're not going towork, is it as an award-winning
, well-noted company?
I'm like, dude, are you joking?
He goes.
I did.
I said you planted that thing.
I said we'll sell it because,um, he, I'm on the radio, the
whole thing.
But I would say, but you justwent.
Oh, I'm so sorry, thatfrustrates me like no other.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
It is about how you present it and this isn't just a
one-time thing.
I'm telling you now I've keyedmy wife in on this.
I'm like does it seem likethey're trying to tell us to not
come in and now she knows she'slike man?
Everywhere we go, they do thesame thing.
I'm like why?
Doesn't someone come in andthen give them some training.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Instead of saying good news, I can get you in five
minutes.
You're like oh my God, you'reright, five minutes here in
Atlanta.
Sometimes, if we don't have areservation on the weekend, it
could be an hour and a half.
I'll take it.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
This, literally, is their tone.
Yeah, it's going to be like 20minutes.
Dude, if I owned thisrestaurant, you'd be fired
immediately.
Yeah, oh, I love that.
That 20 minutes is nothing like.
We came to wait 20 minutes yeah, you know what I mean, like
where's the bar I'm in?

Speaker 3 (57:01):
all right, last one, give us a diy nightmare story.
Diy, yeah, you did something,fire happened, water maybe
impaled yourself, just cut alittle finger off or something
yeah, so I got something I didat my own house, but I have all
10, that, uh, literally three ofthe five, 10 have been impaled.

(57:25):
Yeah, wow, oh yeah I mean it'scalled a hand clamp, bro.
I'm like, oh shit, I just putone through my figure I think I
don't.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
I don't necessarily have anything like extremely
gory or anything to do withpenises, but I would say it
really comes down to the factthat anytime I try to do diy,
like I think it's going to takean hour, and I'm telling you,
dude, luckily lowes is not toofar, because I'm back and forth,
back and forth, and sometimesit takes more than the day, it

(57:57):
takes two days and my wife'slike looking at me, like her dad
used to look at me, like Idon't know what I'm doing, like
I need an MBA and I'm likelisten, I know what I'm doing
here.
The YouTube video shows thisgasket, but when I opened it up,
it didn't have this gasket.
That's the only reason I'mgoing back, not not because I
don't know what I'm doing.
I know what I'm doing, I'mhighly qualified, but this

(58:18):
YouTube video showed the wronggasket.
So it's not me, it's the video,it's the gasket I love the five
.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
You know what that's?
A DIY number story.
People go, oh, I can do thismyself.
I'm like all right, and thenthey'll never tell you, because
nobody ever calls back thecontractor and says oh, by the
way, it took me all day to dowhat you told me, it would take
an hour and I was not willing topay you $180 for one hour.
I'm like, okay, but that'sexactly what happened.
You went back and forth toDepot Lowe's Menards.

(58:47):
Wherever you are, it happens alot.
Four or five times and you godamn it, damn it, damn it One
more time.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
And then all of a sudden, yeah, then you, then you
open up the next layer of thehatch or whatever, and then it's
like now I gotta go get thedifferent tool.
Are you kidding me?
Now I'm involving auto zone inin addition to the hardware
store.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
This is bad.
This is bad.
Riley from lighting hashappened.
It's gotta go.
Alan.
Landscape lighting secrets.
Do you know why?
I know that.
Why do you know that?
Because it's all over.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
He does awesome.
You ready to go?
I am.
Are you ready to go?

Speaker 3 (59:27):
I don't know yet, I'm still thinking.
I just want to bask in theglory of landscape lighting, of.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Ryan, it's amazing he hit on one.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
I'm actually just basking in people.
Those are hilarious Becausethis is so fun, because when
people do that, they have noclue that they just wasted their
entire flipping weekend.
Do something they're like oh,anybody can do this.
Anybody can do this.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
I'll put my own lighting in.
I'll go to Costco and get thekit.
Yeah, I'll do that.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
I just love that one.
I'm basking in the glow.
All love that one.
I'm just I'm basking in theglow.
All right, kids, we learnedsomething this week.
We did.
We gotta go, we gotta makesomething happen.
You know what you gotta do.
I hope you learned somethingtoo Fast forward one and a half
speed.
I doubt you can listen to me inone and a half, because you
gotta try as hard as you canthat's what Chris says Do as I
say, not as I do.

(01:00:15):
Because I do it over time.
We got to keep going, keepgetting up that mountain.
Let's go make something happen.
Make it go.
Let's go make some flippingmoney, baby.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Cheers everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Thanks, Ryan, Thank you for listening to this
episode of the Small BusinessSafari.
Remember your positive attitudewill help you achieve that
higher altitude you're lookingfor in the wild world of small
business ownership.
And until next time, make it agreat day.

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From Window Cleaner to Exterior Lighting: Lighting up a Niche | Ryan Lee

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}From Window Cleaner to Exterior Lighting: Lighting up a Niche | Ryan Lee