[Revisiting] Revolutionizing Health Care Delivery - Dr. Brian Hill (HipNation) - The Small Business Safari

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
But, secondly, you're going to understand why did
doctors get into business.
They didn't do it for the bigfat paycheck, man.
You didn't go to school for 14years because you thought, man,
I'm going to go get my big houseon the beach, I'm going to do
this I'm going to do.
No, you did it because youwanted to help people, and this,
what we're talking about nowand that's what Doc keeps
talking about, and that's what Ireally want you guys all here

(00:22):
is that their why is just likeour why as a small business
owner.
Right, their why was to helppeople.
Welcome to the Small BusinessSafari, where I help guide you
to avoid those traps, pitfallsand dangers that lurk when
navigating the wild world ofsmall business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse

(00:44):
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in adventure team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
All right, everybody, bend over, get ready, it's time to get

(01:08):
your physical on.
We're going to talk to a doctorwho is going to revolutionize
how you think about medicine,what you think about health care
, what you think about howhealth care should be
administered and how youactually, as a small business
owner, are probably going tomiss out if you don't understand
how this whole thing works, butit's going to be a good time.

(01:28):
But before we get to that.
So I hate that my doctor'sactually in here, because I had
to fill all these forms and theysaid how much do you drink?
And I went occasionally.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Oh, so you really are his doctor.
No, he's not my physical doctor.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Not yet, but eventually he will be mine.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, especially if I'm turned it this way.
It's like do you drinkoccasionally?
Do you smoke?
Oh, never, no.
And how often do you work out?
Oh, every day, two hours a day.
So now he's seeing the realthing.
He's down here in the basementwith us seeing the big liquor
wall behind us and seeing thatwe're having a bourbon while we

(02:07):
talk.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
So there goes the myths.
Uh, because there's a pillthat'll fix everything right.
Without a doubt, it's the easybutton, although I tell guys I
mean the excitement of christmasyou know, so I'm a urologist by
training and I generally tellpeople how do you know you're an
alcoholic is if you drink morethan your urologist.
So so far you're okay, allright but there's still time.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
I thank you, I need it all.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Right, we got dr brian hill some good jokes uh,
this is gonna be fun.
There's some good jokes allright, doc, it's exciting.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
We got dr brian hill um, who has just mentioned.
He is a urologist andpracticing urologist and still
practicing, but he's had thisrevolutionary idea and he's
developed it and we're going totalk about that because uh truly
is revolutionary, and I boughtinto it and have my family on it
and getting ready to put mywhole company on it.
This is something that I again.

(02:54):
You want to rage against themachine.
You want to change things.
Do not start protesting.
That's bullshit, right?
That's not the way you makechange happen.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
You make change happen by finding some
revolutionary idea, gettingthere and then telling people
about how cool it is.
So with that, alan, let's getstarted.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
You got serious on me for a second.
I did.
I was back to the urology jokes.
All right, let's go back tourology.
Well, actually, all right.
So, doc, right, you're growingup.
Uh, you grew up in virginia andI mean, how the hell did you go
?
Yeah, I, I'm going to work onurology and I love how they use
the word urology.
And where did that name comefrom?
And where the hell, why didn'tit come out with what we're all
thinking?

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well, nobody could actually say that I was going to
put that into a podcast.
But I probably won't say that.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
No go ahead yeah yeah , yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Well, it's of thing.
I mean, you're a doctor, butdid I say I'm not sure if I was
supposed to see now my whole.
Everything from here forward isgone I mean the whole.
Uh, it's my credibility dotyeah um yeah, so urology is fun,
I mean in the end.
I mean, just as far as goinginto medicine I think I told you
we were talking a while back,chris I mean I love medicine.
Medicine is just an awesomeplace to be urology is fun.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I never thought I would hear that sentence.
I've got that voice.
Well, for you, yeah, not forthe end user, oh, when I get to
end users, I get it.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Hey, look at you coming in with a pun.
But growing up, how were youintroduced to medicine and why
did you determine that was yourpath?

Speaker 3 (04:19):
You know it's kind of interesting.
There really wasn't anything inmy lifestyle, my upbringing, I
mean I was a kid of a FBI guy asa father Uh, I never had
anything that really kind of hadthat aha moment that, oh, you
need to be a doctor.
It was just on my heart, I meanI I remember telling my parents
when I was five years old I'mlike I'm going to grow up and be
a doctor, and of course myparents were like sure, you go

(04:41):
out there and you pick your noseand run around the backyard,
but you're going to be a doctor,no doubt.
But no, it was just always oneof those things that I just knew
I was supposed to be.
So where did you go to school?
So I went to a small school forundergrad in Virginia called
Eastern Mennonite University andthen, after finishing up there,
stayed in Virginia, went to theMedical College of Virginia for
my medical school training.

(05:02):
We had the knife and gun clubat the time.
Uh, at the time richmond wasthe number two per capita, uh,
murder, um capital in the world.
So just behind new orleans, wow.
So you got obviously got a lotof experience, hands-on training
there yeah, it's always kind ofgood to pick that out, and then
you'll go ahead medical schoolthat.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
So that's four plus four.
Wait, hang on, that's eightyears.
Yes, uh, for most of us who arenormal, I'm sorry, higher math,
so how about that?

Speaker 2 (05:28):
no, you're doing a great job counting on this
episode, chris.
I'm just still laughing at thefact that he's got great toys,
which is kind of sadistic.
And then, oh and then, yay, Ihappen to be in the murder
capital of the world, and so,lucky me, you can, you can see
how you got to be geared to bein medicine.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, that's right.
Clearly you got to have a goodsense of humor and you got to
really love other people.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
It's a little bit of schadenfreude going on here,
right, mild amount of insanity,but you know.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
To do what we do in this world, you have to be a
little insane and to thinkdifferently, you have to be
willing to walk in.
That you know.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Box of errors, All, but then you got to for this
it's a specialty right, so youhave to go more.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
So I did so.
I finished up my four years ofmedical training and then went
and did my residency in urology.
That was a six-year program,did that at the University of
Maryland.
So about what is that?
14 years in post-training onboard.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, so clearly dedicated right Willing to put
the time in.
I think we figured that out.
I wish I knew him better.
There's so many jokes, Right.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I know.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
And he went to Maryland for that.
When I think of Maryland, whatdo you think of Crabs?
You're like oh, where are wegoing?

Speaker 3 (06:33):
now, I don't know.
I think at that time I thinkMaryland motto amongst the
medical community was the citythat breeds, and so I guess
there was a significant amountof STDs in the world of Maryland
, but fortunately that was notmy world, all right.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
I operate.
So you get out and then you dowhat every doctor after 14 years
in it's time to go make somemoney.
So what'd you do?

Speaker 3 (06:56):
So I did so.
I actually looked around theUnited States, figured out where
I wanted to go, set up shop,had an opportunity to kind of
decide where we wanted to go.
We found that Atlanta wasinteresting, intriguing.
So we decided to come toAtlanta, joined a medical
practice here, a urologypractice here in Atlanta,
started working and got to knowmy wife because we had
disappeared from each other forabout 10 years there.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, so all right.
So the lady you're stillmarried to was here when you
first got started doing that.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Wow, she's been with me since uh, you know, finishing
undergrad Wow.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
She's you were the potential.
Yeah, I guess that's the word.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
You had higher potential earning power.
Now she's looking at me goingreally him is this who I waited
for?

Speaker 2 (07:31):
yeah in all those years, all right.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
So you come to atlanta, you start you, you get
into it.
Uh, obviously very successfuland it's a great way to make
money.
I mean, you put all this timein, so that's awesome.
So, uh, you're doing this thing, and then you have this idea.
How did this idea come out?
And then let's talk about thisone now.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, so no great.
So we started working for alittle bit.
You know, like I said, it was amatter of kind of, you know,
hopefully paying off a littledebt from medical school
residency, getting my you know,my wife a little bit.
But to be honest with you, yourealize very quickly when you
come out of practicing medicinethat what you're working in is a
healthcare system, and thehealthcare system is not
necessarily about healthcare.
There's all these other playerskind of into the mix, things
you're never taught or trainedabout as you kind of go through

(08:13):
medical work.
And so it was very apparentvery early on that the
healthcare system was a mess.
And I'm somebody, as you guyswill find out, has a very big
mouth and a very shortwillingness to sit by and kind
of let things run sideways.
And so soon thereafter Idecided to engage in some policy
think tanks.
I started working here in thestate of Georgia on some think

(08:34):
tanks, started trying to figureout where the issues in our
society always had a bigger ideaabout footprints in the world
in the world, and so kind ofthat foray into think tanks,
policy making, made me delveinto, start thinking about
healthcare, certainly more andmore as an MD on a think tank
you're going to be couched intomedical.
And that love and passion ofmedicine kind of bore through to

(08:56):
the point where we said youknow what healthcare is a mess,
you know, and how do we go aheadand try to make this morass
better.
And that was the foray ofreally jumping into finding
something better.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
This is a big one because I would say, right now
you're you're trying to tackle,like a, a monster problem that's
bigger than my thinking, whichwhich doesn't it doesn't mean a
lot, cause I definitely didn'tgo to school for 14 years Like
doc here did.
But that's a big, a big ask,right, like doc here did.
But, uh, that's a big, uh, bigask, right to go.
I'm gonna go, you know what?
I'm gonna go fix health care inthe us and oh, by the way, I'm

(09:28):
not the president.
Yeah, so, as you jumped intothis, was it naivete or did you
feel like you know what?
I really think I can make thisneedle move I think we can make
the needle move.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
I mean, it's both right.
Anytime you build something,you're gonna go.
It's both.
But whether you start a smallbusiness and you come in with a
naivete of going, oh this isgoing to be easy, it's not going
to take a lot of time, it's notgoing to take a lot of money,
it's easy Well, nothing is easyin this world that's worth it.

(10:00):
This is the same thing.
And so, thankfully, the naivetekind of really started building
out our company, working in thepolicy world and looking at the
structure of the healthcaresystem, seeing these
stakeholders that are at play inthe healthcare system and
realizing how intransigent it is.
But was not deterred because,again I go back to, I am just
too unwilling to sit back and bequiet and not try to fix

(10:22):
something I mean is a big.
I mean for me.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
I mean, you talk about and I know you love this
when I have no idea what mom isabout to be dropped.
I mean, I know this is a bigpleasure of yours, but what,
what is it?
What did you guys?
What did you do?

Speaker 3 (10:34):
all right, doc, what'd you do?
What'd you do?
Yeah, so very simply, and Ican't say simply I don't think,
yeah, no it's so bad, chris, Iknow I didn't.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
I didn't let alan prep for this one, I mean, and I
even I texted him earlier inthe day I'm like what are we
talking about?
About, it's gonna be great.
No, he didn't even say that.
He just like pretended like hewas working.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
I did, I did pretend like it was working, all right
but I think the good thing aboutthat, alan, is it kind of just
allows you to kind of hear whatwe're talking about and, from
your side, interject and and Isaid I think provide value of of
what the heck did Brian justsay.
Does it make sense?

Speaker 2 (11:04):
So just, for the audience.
He's got a serious Bill Haderthing going on, don't you think?

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh, he definitely looks like Bill.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Hader.
Yeah, man, I got a little JimCarrey every once in a while,
yeah, but yeah, I'll take theBill Hader.
Yeah, he's younger, he'syounger.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Is he sexier?

Speaker 1 (11:18):
I don't know if You're actually too personal.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
I would say, if you had to say one of them was sexy,
it would be Bill Hader over JimCarrey.
I don't think I guess I would,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I guess I'd do that.
There you go.
So Ace Ventura.
We got a new podcast coming out.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
I just had to get you guys a new idea on a podcast.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Drake guys rating hot guy.
I a little bit to your question, Alan.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
I mean.
So I always tell people what ishealthcare in today's world and
what do we see when we kind ofthink about healthcare?
And healthcare really is a taleof the health insurance
industry that's wagging the dog.
So healthcare, when wegenerally think about healthcare
, is we go, hey, we're takingmoney.
We think about healthcare.

(12:07):
Is we go, hey, we're takingmoney.
We think about health insurance, right, we're taking money and
putting this money into this pot.
We call it premiums.
We're going to put it into thispot that is called Blue Cross
or United or Cigna, and that potof money is going to be used to
go out there and help me buyhealthcare.
And that's the healthcare system.
We've got a third party payerkind of in the middle of all of
this, and so all of the moneythat we put together in
healthcare is funneling throughthis third party, and that third
party takes your money andtakes your money and then says,

(12:29):
okay, now, alan, you're going togo see Brian and oh yeah, by
the way, I'm going to pay Brianyour money, but I'm going to
filter a whole lot of effort andwork and costs and everything
in the middle of that and I'mgoing to tell Brian what he
needs to do to take care of you,and I'm going to make it really
, really expensive, because allof those interactions have an
awful lot of people in them andwe said, wait a minute, why in
the world are all of thesepeople standing in the world of

(12:49):
healthcare and making thingsexorbitantly expensive?
Maybe if we rebuilt healthcarethe same way we kind of buy
everything else in our world,through direct contracting and
direct working with the peoplewho provide us a service, maybe
if we got rid of all thosemiddlemen, maybe, just maybe,
the cost of healthcare woulddrop like a rock and maybe
doctors would start listening topeople you know, instead of the
insurance industry, and maybewe can make the healthcare a

(13:12):
little bit more affordable and alittle more patient-centered.
And I don't know, changehealthcare a little bit Sounds
easy, doc.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Sounds easy, you know .

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Come on, start asking questions.
Oh well, and I think about when, I think about the crazy cost
of health care.
I, I realize you've got thatmiddleman totally trying to make
money, obviously you got adoctor who's trying to make
money and then you have, um, newtechnology and the ability to
spend gobs of money trying tofix one person's issue that
maybe 30 years ago we, wecouldn't fix.
And I I don't want to sound so,you know, just so clinical

(13:52):
about it, but you know.
So where am I going with this?
I?
don't know you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
So all right, you know let me help you a little
bit.
So, yeah, please, we pay thedoctor who did 14 years, paid a
lot of money to get thistraining.
We pay him and he should bepaid, right.
Right, I mean back in my world,right?
You know, I went with a cheaperoption.
Oh, good for you.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, and you think about it, what are you doing
with urology?
Oh, I went with a cheaperdoctor, the total socialized
medicine, and the doctors aren'tmaking very much money.
I want our doctors to choke onthe amount of money they make.
I want them to make a lot ofmoney because I want the best
people, the smartest people, tobecome doctors.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
100% right this is one thing you don't go.
You know, I got three bids.
I want the cheapest one, no.
So I want that guy to make thatmoney the guy looking at me,
the lady looking at me, whoever.
But what Brian's talking aboutis so he has to use a special
billing code, and if he uses thewrong billing code now, he has
to be trained.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh, it's a bureaucratic nightmare, but I
guess what I was getting atearlier, just to kind of try to
crash land that plane is withthe general rising cost of
health care.
You also have all this newtechnology and to treat certain
diseases and issues can getreally expensive.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Diseases and issues can get really expensive and
since we're all in a pool, we'reall you know, all of our rates
go up because we're paying for alot of stuff that we used to
not be able to do.
But you're saying, like 50years ago, if I had an ailment
like perhaps I drank a littletoo much and I was going down
today I'm going to get saved bya pill, but 50 years ago I'm

(15:22):
dead yeah, you could put it thatway and I should be dead.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, I think you kind of you know you got what
you deserved.
At that point I'll ask you thisright?

Speaker 3 (15:31):
So we've got this beautiful right.
I've got this beautiful pieceof technology in my hand.
I'm sitting here looking at myiPhone.
Unbelievable piece oftechnology Didn't exist, right,
we took somebody to the moonwith, with technology, less than
this.
Yet I can sit here and holdthis wonderful piece of
technology in my hand that cantalk to anybody around the world

(15:51):
, can text anybody around theworld, and it's affordable,
right.
Why?
Right?
Why is an apple phoneaffordable?
That everybody right in theunited states and pretty much
around the world right, has asmartphone?
So great technology.
Is it a technology issue?
Or is it how we actually buythings, how we pay for things,
the price, price transparency,the competition in the
marketplace Right?
Maybe it's that I don't have athird party helping me buy my
iPhone?

(16:11):
Right, that iPhone actually hasto respond to me as a consumer
and it's got to create a pricepoint that's actually affordable
by me.
And maybe that's some of thesecret sauce that we need to put
together into the world ofhealth care.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
So this is why I bought into it, because we both
said the same thing and we'lljust say it again, and that's
what Doc was just saying I wantthe specialists to get paid what
they deserve, a hundred percent, but I don't need 25 people
between them and me getting paidalong.
That as well.
And as somebody who didconsulting work and I actually
worked for a very short timewith healthcare companies, but

(16:46):
most of my time was spent infinancial services I will tell
you some of those buildings thatyou go into, some of these big
providers that we just talkedabout, are immaculate, 1000% Taj
Mahals and you're like wait aminute, my healthcare premium
just paid for that.
It didn't pay for the doctorthat I get to see, or, I'm sorry
, and my daughter's about to bea physician's assistant.

(17:09):
I'm not going to bang on this.
I love my PA daughter, but I getto see a PA after I wait for 45
minutes and they say, I'm sorry, after eight minutes you have
to go.
So I didn't get this.
They, who I want to get paid aton, got to see me for eight
minutes, but they're being toldhey, to make your numbers, we
need to have a bunch of peopleflowing through this office so
we can bill, because we have topay the healthcare companies for

(17:33):
the billing rates, and so allthe money goes off and it's not
the one helping you and me sitin our office.
Yeah, it's very transactional.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
It very and an expensive transactional process,
right.
That becomes part of theproblem is that the ability or
the way that I get paid as aphysician is very expensive.
The transaction is againhappening through a third party,
not from you paying from medirectly right.
But it's filtering through toChris's point all of these
middlemen that are standing inhealthcare that are doing the
coding and the billing and theprior authorizing and

(18:02):
pre-certifying and denyingclaims because you put the wrong
code in or you didn't check theright box, and that's going to
come back to your office andthen you've got to refile that
bill again and you're going totry to get paid 90 days later
from that office visit.
That was 120 bucks.
Why am I running that throughan expensive bureaucracy?
That's an insurance industryand if I do all of that and I've
got to keep all of this backoffice administrative costs to

(18:23):
try to get that money back inthe door 90 days later, my gosh,
I've got to see an awful lot ofpeople in order to generate the
revenue and I'm going to beworking until two o'clock in the
afternoon or three o'clock inthe afternoon just to pay
overhead costs and pound as manypeople through my office so
that maybe the last three orfour people a day I see they're
actually people I'm putting inmy pocket as making right.
And so we've created a systemthat is so ridiculously

(18:43):
expensive and requires just avolume of throughput of patients
in order to try to cover youroverhead costs and then get a
little bit of money left over inthe back end If we go.
Wait a minute.
Maybe maybe if we actually madeit easier for that
transactional process to happenfor physicians getting paid for
the medical care they'reproviding, without it running
through that huge bureaucracyand all the back office and all
the administrative costs maybemy doctor can see less people,

(19:06):
because it's money that's notflowing out of the system, it's
staying with them.
Maybe my doctor can actuallyget paid a little bit more.
Maybe my doctor can actuallyfocus on me, because he's not
trying to run me out the door.
She's trying to run me out thedoor in the next seven minutes
because I've got to hurry to getthrough all these other people
and it's just going.
If we can get rid of thisridiculous middle that's been
built in this transactionalprocess that is healthcare, the

(19:27):
cost of care could drop like arock, and the quality of care,
because now you become thecenter point of it, rather than
the insurance company canimprove.
And so it's really a matter ofwe say right, this
intermediating, what has becomethis very expensive, sclerotic
middleman called the insuranceindustry that takes?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
over healthcare using some big words.
But okay, so outside of goingto back to paying cash or
bringing my cow or a couple ofchickens to get my unit worked
on, you.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Oh my god, it's coming right back.
He's a urology doc.
We're talking to like totalbody health things I mean, what
is the solution?

Speaker 2 (20:07):
because you you do have people, you know, I mean
not everybody.
The whole idea of the insuranceis to kind of spread out the
costs.
So I get lucky and I'mreasonably healthy, I don't cost
the system much.
But you know, chris with hisCaligula-like lifestyle just is
a real drain on the society,health-wise, hypothetically.

(20:27):
Again.
I keep forgetting to use thatword, hypothetically, please.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
I mean, I can't say it really.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I usually say just an imaginary person whose name
rhymes with Chris.
I keep forgetting to do that.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
So you have to have.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
It seems like maybe you've got to.
I can't wait to hear what youhave, but there has to be some
sort of blend between me payingwith chickens and this bloated
behemoth?

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yes then there is, and the bloated behemoth is an
unnecessary animal.
Now in today's world thatdoesn't do anybody any good,
except for themselves and maybetheir shareholders.
That's just the reality of theinsurance industry.
Take an awful lot of money offthe top, make it really
difficult for us to, as medicine, provide medical care to you
all and make it really expensivefor you to go buy their product
called health insurance and tomake healthcare my product I

(21:16):
sell, really expensive.
So we go, let's stop that.
Let's rethink healthcare alittle bit and take this concept
of insurance and put it aside,you know, for a second, and go.
If I wanted to make healthcareitself efficient and remarkable,
right, how would we just buildthat first, you know, and for
employer groups who are spendingright, second biggest bottom

(21:37):
line item on their P&L right istheir health insurance and it's
the one they can't control.
It's the one that's going upall the time.
You follow, maybe oftentimesyour payroll and then you got
your right health insurancepremiums and so we go.
If we wanted to rebuild thisand make healthcare first
valuable for people, powerfulfor people, from the side of
medicine, I would tell you andas we've expounded upon, I'm a

(21:58):
urologist, but I would say themost important person in your
healthcare existence and theexistence of our society is your
primary care doctor.
So let's just first focus onwhat studies consistently show
around the world and healthsystems looking at the
functionality of health systemsand actually improving the
quality of care and having theirsociety live longer, happier,
healthier lives.

(22:19):
Primary care has been shown tobe the linchpin.
Well, like I said, in our worldthose primary care doctors are
running around seeing 22 to 25people a day.
They're miserable.
Spending half their timedealing with an insurance
company right, can't stand whatthey're doing, dealing prior
authorizations.
They're burnt out.
60% of doctors are burnt out inmedicine and they're going.
Wait a minute, I grew up to bea doctor because I'm going to
build an insurance company andspend my time focusing on them.

(22:40):
We go that's awful.
So let's rewire that productand let's do this instead.
Let's just have primary care,walk away from insurance.
Nobody's going to go bankruptwith their primary care doctor.
I mean, what's the point ofinsurance?
High cost, catastrophic event Ihaven't seen a primary care
event cause somebody to gobankrupt.
So we go.
Let's have doctors in theprimary care space, walk away

(23:01):
and just direct contract withyou and you by service, you know
, just set up a membership model.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
Do you have what it takes to start your own business
?
Are you tired of the nine tofive corporate job and ready to
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You need to check out From theZoo to the Wild, the book by
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(23:32):
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Lalamia shares his path tosuccess in this industry,
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(23:53):
perform at the highest levels.
Whether you're a small businesstrying to scale or a franchise
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habits, leadership style andcustomer-oriented processes to
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(24:13):
So if you're ready to takecontrol of your future, get a
copy of From the Zoo to the Wildtoday, available on Amazon pay
like you go pay a gym, which Iam hearing a little of that so.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
So here a couple things that I love about what.
What doc has built, uh and done.
I mean, he's bucking againstthe trend.
So hang on, if you got a smallbusiness, stay with me, man.
I know you're in your truck,you're rolling, you're trying to
figure out what the hell's init for me.
There's two things in it foryou.
Number one you're going to learnabout how a guy saw an idea and
bucked a trend way bigger thanall of us bro, I'm telling you,

(24:59):
all of us and gal.
But secondly, you're going tounderstand why did doctors get
into business?
They didn't do it for the bigfat paycheck man.
You didn't go to school for 14years because you thought, man,
I'm going to go get my big houseon the beach, I'm going to do
this.

(25:19):
No, you did it because youwanted to help people.
And this, what we're talkingabout now and that's what Doc
keeps talking about, and that'swhat I really want you guys all
here, is that their why is justlike our why as a small business
owner.
Right, their why was to helppeople, and in the world that
they're creating now, you don'tsee that why, and if you're ever
in corporate America and youpaid your premiums and your
company paid a half to a third,or back to when my wife was at

(25:42):
IBM.
They paid for all of it back inthe day, big blue, we didn't
even think about it.
We're like, eh, whatever, youknow, we were young, we were
healthy, but you saw your doctorif you're lucky for 10 to 15
minutes, and so what doc issaying is, let's, let's put this
back to the generalpractitioner.
So, uh, you went for an extrasix years.
These guys go for still eightyears, but when you go see them,

(26:02):
uh, and I have, I sat there fortwo hours talking about
everything that I have goingwrong with me and, believe me,
we could have gone for eighthours, alan, I know that know,
Cliff notes huh.
I did do cliff notes and thewhole time going how much did
you drink Occasionally?
So anyway, thank God theydidn't have lie detectors.

(26:23):
I swear to God, it's an idea.
Actually, after hearing this,you're probably right, but no,
and so far my wife's been there.
My kids are scheduling a tripto come back and do this as well
.
And you're right.
It was the first time in mymedical life where somebody
actually sat there, listened tome, talked to me and then

(26:44):
started offering advice no,let's do this, let's do that,
wait a minute, hey.
Instead of just saying let'sthrow pills at it or do this,
and so for me, I got better careand I'm directly paying for my,
my, my best care through that.
Now, as a small business owner,I have never provided
healthcare for my company andnow, for the first time ever, I

(27:07):
can see it as an affordableoption for me to be able to do
it, because in my world it'svery hard for me to compete and
offer healthcare.
And I can see it as anaffordable option for me to be
able to do it, because in myworld it's very hard for me to
compete and offer healthcare andI can't do what big blue did I
mean?
Again my handyman rates.
Uh, and some people in this roomwill tell you that I, I spent,
I pay, uh, I charge a lot ofmoney.
Are you really looking at me?
No, you, you do no-transcript.

(27:54):
And that's the doc who's beentrained to again play to his why
or her why, and that is.
I want to help people.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
So that's what this is.
So basically, you can contractper employee for you know, like
some sort of an annual contract,and they or is it monthly pay
per go.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
So the way they go yeah, again, it's still a
monthly thing.
So the program and I'm going tojump to it now so the program
that you would have if I wentnormal healthcare world they
would like okay, here's myhealthcare, here's, you know,
pick one of the big four or fivethat are out there.
You get to offer that to yourcompany.
By law you have to do 50because you're going through us.

(28:32):
Our numbers, uh, start in the400s and go up.
So now you have to pay 200 peremployee.
It's a non-starter.
And then I go, I ask myemployees are you willing to pay
200 a month for health care?
And they're like no, no, no.
And and doc is sitting hereshaking they won't, they won't
do it, no, unless you're goingto pay for all of it.

(28:52):
I'm like, well, if I pay forall of it, then we're not going
to have as many jobs and Iprobably can't employ all of you
guys.
So they're like we don't wantit.
All right, so I don't do that.
I started looking at this option.
If I do this, I can paywhatever is allowed, whatever I
feel that I can afford, and askthem.
But here's the deal.
I didn't start at 400.
I started at half that Okay.

(29:15):
So now I ask the guys can youpay $100 a month?
Yeah, all right, I'll do it now.
And you're like, okay, now Ihave healthier employees and I
have handymen, I have remodelers, I have project managers, I
have office staff.
And they're like, yeah, I'll doit, all right.
Well, here's how the programworks and here's what you get.
So it's not all panacea, right,but it's also more appropriate
to the way it works.

(29:36):
And these guys go get and meetwith a primary doctor, and they
get time with that primarydoctor, and now they learn about
what's going on.
And when they say, I have aproblem, now we can talk about
that.
So where does it happen?
Here's where it happens.
These guys.
What they do is a hip nationhere in Atlanta, and now you
guys are uh, how many States areyou in now?

(29:57):
12, 12 States.
So, uh, they had this idea.
You pay a lot less per month,you get access to your primary
doctor.
Who, doc said, was yourlinchpin, and I'm, I'm speaking
for him because you got to hearthis.
And then, if you have a majorevent, um, their example.

(30:19):
An example is I broke my leg,now what Well, you go into the
ER and you do the thing.
You come in, you tell everybodyI'm going to self-pay and here's
where the crazy stuff goes.
So they teach you how to workthrough the system.
They didn't teach us how towork through the system.
I'm going to tell you I alreadylearned how to work through the
system because I told you Ididn't do health care right.
Watch this One of my guys in mytruck had a heart attack on

(30:42):
I-575.
If you don't know, 575 here inAtlanta, it is a super speedway.
It's just blanketed as ahighway.
So he was going 90 miles anhour and started to black out.
He got the car under controland got off the road.
He had a heart attack.
He went in.
I did not offer healthcare.
He went in there and what hesaid was to the doctors and they

(31:04):
came in and they said well, hesaid I'm going to have to
self-pay.
So what did they do?
They put through.
Uh, they, they take care of him, number one, because that's
what.
That's what hospitals aresupposed to do.
Thank god again, they're.
Why, right?
You get to the people and then,after it's done, it's like all
right, we gotta figure out howto pay it.
And he's I can't, they go.
All right, we're going to putyou on a payment plan.
Okay, so the payment plan.

(31:26):
He will probably pay until hedies.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
So go ahead, not us.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
So I'll throw this for guys that are listening and
businesses and gals what I meantby he's going to die 50 years
from now, I mean the guy he'sstill healthy, still working
with you.
This happened three years ago.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
So I'll throw it.
So the why that you allhopefully should be listening,
and maybe why I was hopefullyasked to be here, is we do have
a heart for, for for businesses.
We really want to see twothings happen for businesses I
want them to be able to bring ahigh quality, affordable product
to their employees and andthat's what we've built for
employees and businesses and Iwant their employees to get

(32:05):
great healthcare right.
And so you know part of whatwe're the, the mechanics that we
can talk about a little bit,the, the, what undergirds the
economics of how we work.
You know, it's kind of what wewere talking about a little bit
before, but what the economicsdrive is that we can go to an
employer group and who can be onBlue Cross or United or Cigna,
and we can say walk away fromthat, Stop paying ridiculous

(32:28):
premiums.
I talked to an employer grouptoday.
They're paying $800 for anemployee only on their insurance
plan.
You go, walk away from that.
It's not paying that.
Half your employees can'tafford it, Most of your
employees can't afford it.
Even if you're paying 50, 75%,Stop wasting money that going to
the insurance company and let'sinstead have you join our model
of how we provide and how webelieve healthcare can and

(32:49):
should work, and our model isbased on two pillars.
You know, and again, huge, hugecost savings that are going to
come from the employer and theemployee.
By working on our platform andusing the way we work, One,
everybody's going to get thataccess to a great primary care
experience that Chris talkedabout.
Our primary care doctors takecare of a couple hundred people

(33:09):
instead of thousands of people.
Our primary care doctors seesix or eight people a day
instead of 25 people a day.
We do that because our primarycare doctors have walked away
from insurance and all theridiculous bureaucratic cost and
join us and their job is to doone thing and one thing only
take care of a great.
I mean do a great job takinggreat care of a small number of

(33:29):
people.
Give them your cell phone, Givethem unlimited office visits,
Give them access through textingand telemedicine and just go be
a doctor.
And because I'm not billing aninsurance company because of all
those administrative costs aregone away, our doctors can
actually get paid well becausewe're not funneling money out to
an insurance industry.
It's staying in the office andif our costs are less, You're

(33:51):
billing less than keeping more,and I'm not billing at all
because it's a monthlymembership.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
It's easy, but they keep it Again.
Where do I want my money to go?
I want my money to go to theperson who's taking care of me,
not the person five states awaywho's administering and doing
all this stuff.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
So that's the first piece, so if you don't mind,
chris, that's that first pieceof going great access, great
primary care.
But then the other pillar thatyou mentioned there and the way
we access healthcare, is how dowe, if I leave my primary care
and it's included in our productright, there is no additional
charges included in our monthlycost but if I leave that space

(34:33):
of the primary care, because badthings can happen to our bodies
and I maybe need a CAT scan oran MRI, or maybe I have a heart
attack or maybe I need to havesurgery, right, the question
becomes in that space, right One, how do we pull dollars
together for an employer to makesure that we've got the money
to be able to pay for thatmedical issue?
Well, one thing we've done iswe've helped create this kind of
a co-op style model where wetake employer groups and pull

(34:56):
employer groups together and golet's, let's pull our dollars
into this fund, you know, andand we use a platform that's
called medical cost sharing,which is almost like
crowdfunding, and we go let'spull all of our dollars together
and put them in this fund, notgive them to the insurance
company, but let's do itourselves because, as we
mentioned, insurance companiesare expensive and costly and
drive us all crazy in healthcare, let's do it ourselves.

(35:18):
And now that we've got thisdollar in the fund, how do we
want to go and purchase thosehealthcare services in the world
the x-rays and the officevisits?
Well, we can buy it through aninsurance company, but again we
talked about all the chaos thatcomes with buying things for an
insurance company.
Or we can do something reallysimple.
Medicine is willing to offertheir services me as a urologist

(35:43):
and hospitals and imagingcenters and ambulatory surgery
centers.
We're willing to offer ourservices at a discounted rate,
significantly discounted rate.
If you pay me today, If youdon't make me have to fight with
an insurance company and carry60% administrative costs to try
to get money in my door 90 dayslater, I'll give you a discount.

(36:04):
And so when we go out and wesay all my primary care is
included but the per unit costof care, when I step out of that
office, I'm going to be buyingit as a self-pay customer and
buying it at that 30 to 75%discount.
Now I'm buying healthcare atits real price because I'm not
funding the middleman of theinsurance costs in healthcare,

(36:27):
I'm just buying the service.
So now the price per unit ofcare drops.
And now we talked about withChris.
We've got this money in thispot, right, our crowdfunding
kind of pot and we go oh great,brian's business is in this and
Chris's business is in Alan'sbusiness.
We're all in this pot togetherand we've got a lot of
businesses around the UnitedStates that have their money in
this pot here together and, ifGod forbid, something bad

(36:53):
happens to Alan, we're going touse the money in our pot to go
buy that medical care for Alan.
We're going to help give youthe funds to do so, but we're
going to buy it as a self-paidcustomer and pay for it at its
real price and make sure themedicine gets paid quickly and
easily and efficiently, ratherthan having to fight 90 days
later to get paid.
And since that cost of care isless, in that way, the premium
that we charge the monthly wecall it a contribution that

(37:14):
monthly contribution drops by 50to 60%.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
The cost, right.
So let's talk real dollars inthis one.
So the scenario I just talkedabout, and this is the one that
we actually used to figure outif this is going to be a good
fit for me.
He did have a heart attack.
It was three years ago.
He is on a payment plan and hewill.
He's on a payment planliterally until again he passes,
which hopefully will be ahundred, you know, maybe 90, but

(37:40):
whatever.
In this scenario, had he been ona healthcare program that I
would have been able to offer tohim, he would have been in, he
would have been paying $150 to$200 a month and then, in this
situation, he would have came inand said hey, sir, how would
you like to pay?
He goes well, I'm going toself-pay, I'm going to pay you

(38:01):
today.
They went okay.
Well, instead of charging you$300,000, we're going to charge
you $100,000, a third.
It would have been a third.
Check this out.
And, by the way, hiscontribution to this deal would
have been a third.
Yep, check this out.
And, by the way, hiscontribution in this deal would
have been a thousand.
He would have to only pay athousand dollars to that and
he's done, he's out, he's nothaving to pay for the rest of

(38:22):
his life.
Our fund pays the rest, thefund pays the rest.
But you see what the thehospital system just did.
They're like oh, you mean,you're going to pay me today.
I don't have to do these stupidbilling codes and 75 billing
codes and make sure I get paidand get da-da-da-da.
So they took all theadministration away.
Because, again, as a smallbusiness owner, what are you
thinking?
Pay me today, I'm going to giveyou a deal.
You pay me cash, bro.

(38:43):
I'll do anything to anybodyanytime.
You've heard me say that allthe time.
Oh, I'm going to put.
Can you finance me?
Yeah, sure I can.
Let me tell you what thatnumber is going to look like.
So they lowered their price by.
It would have been a thirdlower by self-pay and my
employee would only have beenout of pocket $1,000.
And then our contribution ofour group and the groups that we

(39:06):
joined would have paid the restand he would have only been had
to pay $1,000 today.
Right now he's stroking a checkevery month just for and I'm
processing hard.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
It is hard, I'd say it's hard.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
It's a lot to take in and I would tell you actually I
put dr the ringer doing this um, and I'm still putting them
through it because I haven't putmy company on it yet, um, but
we met uh once, twice, thenagain with my family, and then
we got, we joined uh, becauseI'm obviously I'm self-employed,
um, I had been riding my wife'sinsurance for years.

(39:42):
She's retired, so we had tofigure this out and he got on
the phone with my wife, talkedher through it all.
We've been through it.
My kids understand it.
My daughter, you know, going toPA school.
We'll be off it, hopefully veryfreaking soon.
I mean, this is going on solong, doc, again, your parents
must have said after 14 years,you were off the, I was off the,

(40:04):
I was off the payroll for along time.
Okay, good, yeah, you know whatdaughters though different,
right, they're always right here, god, oh, yeah, yeah, an audi,
by the way an audi.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
She just got an audi.
I thought you're talking aboutbelly button.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
No, no, it is, it is a healthcare.
It is a healthcare.
You know conversation.
So yeah, so it's interesting,and to be granular and to give
like a business is a granularidea.
I said I mean most businesseswe're seeing today are paying
800 for an employee only.
I see employee family plans andit's certainly in the small
business space we're gettingcrushed.
I mean they're paying 2600 foran employee family plan and

(40:39):
that's for these employees towalk around with a 7,500 max out
of pocket if I get sick family15,000 if two of us get sick in
our family and I'm paying a tonof money to do so.
So for us, on just a regular,straight employee solution, the
one that's the most common thatI see employers go with, it's
$3.38 a month.

(41:01):
That includes all of theirprimary care, their doctor's
cell phone, no co-pays for theirprimary care office.
Visit an hour and a half withtheir doctor to talk about life
and health and wellness andpartner with you to actually
really be a doctor in your life.
And God forbid if something badhappens to me.
I'm going to pay the firstthousand dollars I'm going to
present as a self-pay customerto choose the right price in

(41:22):
healthcare.
It's all I'm doing.
I tell people when I say I'mself-pay, the healthcare system
has self-pay rates.
We're just accessing that priceon our list of charges, called
our charge master.
I'm going to present as aself-pay.
I'm going to pay the firstthousand and our fund, right
through our medical cost sharingplatform, is going to pay for
the remainder after that, not7,500, a thousand.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Is there a little bit of risk?
You know, you go one hospitaland self-pay rate is discounted
a certain amount and anotherhospital is discounted a
completely.
Maybe some hospital doesn'teven discount it.
I mean it.
It to me it seems like thereseems like there's a lot of
variables or risk there.
So the trust, I don't know whatthe right word is, it's not
trust.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
So beautiful the piece on this is that and again,
this is a physician-built modeland mindset around this.
The beautiful piece in thespace of pricing healthcare is
you're right, there isvariability, which is a problem.
Right, that's a problem alittle bit in healthcare is why
in the world does one hospitalcost more than another?
Why does one CT scan cost morethan another?
When it's the same CT scanbeing read by the same
radiologist, it just one happensto be housed in a different

(42:29):
location hospital and onehappens to be housed in an
outpatient imaging center.
Why?
Why are they radicallydifferent prices and why are you
guys not aware of that?
We should know that thereshould be price transparency in
this and so one we believe in.
If we can drive that pricetransparency, we're going to
really create some realsolutions here.
But the variability in thatself-pay pricing does occur.

(42:52):
I think it's good for people tosee that it creates consumerism
.
But the other piece is thatusually, again, most hospital
systems, imaging centers,ambulatory surgical centers,
physicians have discountedself-pay rates better than
insurance rates.
But even the ones that aren'tquote unquote discounted,
usually what they're going tocharge you is the insurance rate
.
So the worst case scenario isthe cash rate is the same as

(43:14):
what your insurance rate wouldhave been, as opposed to
significantly discounted.
And where that impacts is notour member right, our member
pays the first $1,000.
You know.
And where that impacts is notour member right, our member
pays the first thousand dollars.
What it impacts is our fund,because our fund is what's
paying out after that thousanddollars, and so we all want to
be good stewards.
Consumers and I don't wantChris's pay have to go up.
Right, his monthly contributionhave to go up next year.

(43:36):
I'm hoping Chris goes.
Yeah, I think I'm going to gobuy that MRI at $499 over here
at First Look MRI, instead ofgoing and paying $3,000 for that
same exact MRI at ahospital-based imaging center.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
So I said two things you don't want to go to the
cheapest guy right, because thecheapest guy would be the worst
guy.
But what we're talking about isaffordable and quality and
inequality and g and inequalityand gouging and pricing.
So I think one of the questions, if I was listening, would be
like all right, doc, so I gowith you guys, instead of paying
the big guys, I'm paying you.
Now how come you're not gougingme?
I mean so.

(44:14):
So how come you're not?

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Yeah, so so we've done two things right.
That's just a great question.
So one, our co-op is anonprofit.
So we put together a nonprofitin that co-op, you know, and so
that's functioning.
And really it's a communityowned, membership owned kind of
co-op where we put the capitalinto you know.
So we've kind of said, hey,that's a good way to put money
into that.
Now I tell people I'm a freemarket capitalist, just them.
Free market capitalism happensin the world when you bring

(44:38):
forward a better product at abetter price, grow in the
marketplace and overcome thoseold stakeholders that are either
providing a worse product or ahigher cost product.
There's lots of room in thismarketplace of healthcare to
come in at a lower price point.
We are and do very well whichwe are.
And so price gouging how doesprice gouging get controlled?
Then you guys go out and buybeer.

(44:58):
Well, you see the price of it.
You compare against.
Do I want to buy that beer orthat beer?
Price transparency andcompetition in the marketplace
is what drives down price.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
So this is a really crude analogy, but I love it.
So my son goes to UGA, we go upthere, and I said, hey, I'm
going to go out and buy somebeer and pizza for you guys,
because I made them all fix upthe house that we own up there.
And my son said, dad, don't goto this one, go out by the place
.
You're buying pizza, becauseyou'll find the beer is more

(45:28):
like what you expect to pay.
You're like it's the same damnbeer.
This can over here.
And so I said you know, Iforgot to get ice.
So I strolled in there and Ilooked and, sure enough, the
price of the beer was likedouble.
Why?
Because it's closer to campusand perhaps, uh, a nice id might
uh take care of business youknow, let's just, let's say,

(45:51):
let's just say I was carded.
Uh, because the cameras arelooking.
Who's going to card this baldguy anyway?
But uh, so that's the point,you know.
So I'm not saying it's badhealth care if you go this way.
It's great, affordable healthcare, see, because what's
happened is the society that wegot into and we go through
everything and I'm definitelynot going to go political

(46:12):
because we're almost done withthis uh podcast but, um, you've
got to start to understand that,uh, everything comes with a
price and everything you saidsaid it early, right?
Nothing in life is worth itunless it's easy.
So you did it, doc, you've donethis.
Obviously, you get somekickback, you get some deal on
doing this.
We didn't even get into thebusiness model.
We just talked about how goodthis is.

(46:34):
But I feel like your why isdouble-fold in your life, not
only helping people, but alsohelping people find great,
affordable healthcare.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
No, that's our mission.
I mean so for me.
I'm one of these people thatrealized that I kind of
mentioned the beginning.
I'm one of 15 kids.
I grew up with 11 adoptedbrothers and sisters.
Right, I kind of grew up withthis perspective of going.
How do we go out and change theworld?
You know, and I'm I'm blessedto be coming with me when I,

(47:05):
when I leave, let's go ahead andleave a heck of a footprint
here on this world, and so myheart and vision is going.
How do we make healthcareaffordable, you know, for my, my
sister that works at a daycarecenter?
And how do we help my brother,who runs an HVAC company, be
able to afford great healthcarefor his employees?
I think they deserve it.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
So can an individual sign on, or is it just company
only?

Speaker 3 (47:19):
So we do individuals, so probably about 80% of our,
our, our businesses on the groupside, just more businesses, but
we do individuals as well.
And and if I step back and justkind of like I said, for maybe
people that are listening andjust to kind of give you an idea
of what we can do, which is isjust awesome, you know, we had a
15 person company reach out tous, you know, and there was a
plumbing company, thirdgeneration family company, and
they had, like I said, four guysthat were on their insurance

(47:42):
plan through Aetna becausethey're the only ones who could
afford it.
Right, the foreman and theowners and the other guys were
like I just can't afford thisthing.
We walked in there with oursolution for these guys and said
, hey, join us, walk away fromAetna.
And when they did, because theysaid yes, they were able to buy
healthcare for all 15 of thoseguys and still come out $15,000

(48:04):
less per year than what theywere paying for four on Aetna.
We bought healthcare to 15people and not only just
healthcare.
We brought a personal primarycare physician to those 15 guys
and gals.
They got their doctor's cellphone and they didn't even have
an inkling of access tohealthcare.
Now they got $0 cost to gospend an hour with their primary
care doctor to talk about lifeand health and wellness, and God

(48:25):
forbid if they get sick.
That prior Aetna plan had a$8,000 to max out a pocket.
Now the guys get sick.
It's a thousand bucks.
I mean, right, that's, that'stransformational in medicine.
For businesses, you know, to beable to help improve the
quality of care for theiremployees, improve their bottom

(48:45):
line, take that capital to beused for capital expenditures,
help them increase the salariesfor their employees.
I mean it's just why are wehaving so much money go through
an insurance industry and takingaway valuable capital from a
small business?
Let's stop that game.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Amen, man, this has been amazing because, uh, I got
questions still.
Oh my god, all right yeah, caljust two.
I I got no.
No, we're not stopping thisthing, guys.
Hang in there.
By the way, he's going to tellus what areas he can help you
with after this episode and putin the show notes.
But, alan, yeah, I'm justthinking about this from a

(49:19):
business model.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
How do you even start this?
How do you have the capital todo it?
Because there have to becertain limits.
So Chris in his lifestyle, someterminal.
So let's say there's a guynamed Chris and he gets some
disease and he's capped out at1,000.
I mean you don't have unlimitedresources.

(49:42):
I mean how does that work?
That's one question.
I got another one, yeah I'llhear that one first.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
So so right, that that thousand.
So I'll give an example to you.
Know around that and andhopefully maybe this will help a
little bit.
So I always like kind of realexamples in the real world.
So one of our members, greatguy, chris chris having a name
chris, yeah, sorry, sorry, alan.
Anyway, so he's from Alabama,decided to go out go skiing,
joined us, said I'm going to goskiing out in Colorado.

(50:08):
I did, by the way, and so whenhe was skiing in Colorado he
fell down and broke his neck.
Bad day, durango.
Didn't break my neck, did notbreak your neck, hopefully,
right.
So bad issue Gets life flightedto the local hospital there
because I'm self-pay, right, I'mgoing to pick the magic price
on that hospital's charge masterin colorado and be self-pay,
said I'm self-pay.
They admitted him, stabilizedhis neck really bad day.

(50:32):
Found out that he had cancerthat had spread to his neck and
that's why he broke it so easy.
Oh, bad day that's a bad day broflown back down to, you know,
alabama, university of alab,alabama, birmingham, is right
where he was.
He was in Birmingham, goodschool, great place, great
school, stabilized his neck, puthim through radiation therapy,
chemotherapy, treated hismetastatic disease.

(50:52):
Now he wants to sell us and theentire price.
Right the charge, master, rightthe game.
That's this healthinsurance-based world $2.1
million dollars, 2.1, 2.1million.
But he used the magic word I'mself-pay, right, so your own
insurance plan premiums, highpremiums, going out to pay all
of that money that I'm having topay every month in this premium
to overpay for that health careservice that we bought as a

(51:15):
self-paid customer for 650 000check that one out.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
All right, so our fund, back to alan's point.
Our fund has to pay that, yes,so what if there's a lot of uh?

Speaker 2 (51:28):
other people name that names rhyme with chris but
falling off the record, but I'mway better skier than this dude.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Uh, because I did not get hurt.
I'm kidding, but no.
So let's say there's a run onthe fund.
All right, then what?

Speaker 3 (51:41):
we raise.
We raise our monthlycontribution, right, because the
dollars are only going to payfor the healthcare for our
members.
And so we go, hey, if we have abad run on our fund and we look
at the spend on the fund and aswe get through our renewal
process of re-upping businessesand individuals, we go, hey, we
need to increase premiums.
And if there's less is there wedon't reduce, we generally stay

(52:02):
stable.
We haven't reduced yet.
So if I look back for the pastfive years, what have we
increased?
Our premiums and we call themcontributions.
We increased 3% last yearbecause, well, inflation, if you
haven't noticed, has been up alittle bit.
Yeah, that's less thaninflation.
And then, a couple of yearsbefore that, we did 10% because
of that big inflationary push,right after the change of the
office.
All right, but we put money inour capital.

(52:24):
But this is a beautiful piece,right?
Our capital is not beingdistributed to shareholders.
The money is not being used tobuild huge, beautiful buildings
in every major metropolitan areathat hospitals or the insurance
companies do, as you mentioned.
The mausoleums that are beingbuilt out here, that are
remarkable Mausoleum.
It is a place of death from myperspective.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
I love that.
They're amazing.
I've been to a couple of themand they are pretty amazing.
All right, One more question.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Keep going, man.
That's all we're here.
You've got to be facingheadwinds.
I mean, when you drain theswamp, the swamp doesn't want to
be drained and it fights back.
What's happening out there?

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Now rights back.
What's happening out there Now?
That's a great, great question.
So fortunately, yeah, thank youman, we've been a little bit
below the radar that won't last.
It won't last and that's okay.
And we've got some hedges righton the.
We've done some things on thepolitical side that actually
create a little bit of bandwidthon us on creating, you know,
getting some legislation acrossthe finish line.
That creates some barriers andprotection.
The other piece around this iswho pays for most of healthcare

(53:21):
in the United States?
Businesses do, and businessesare pretty powerful and every
politician has to.
Right, because it's reallygoing to be a political play.
Right, our product and the costand the effectiveness of our
products is so much better thananything you're going to be able
to buy in the marketplace withBlue Cross, united, cigna, you
know, and we call them.
The book is out there, you know.
So the only way they cancontrol us, right, it's trying

(53:43):
to create legislation against us.
But we step into businesses andwe go hey, by the way, we, we're
going to help you save $15,000and make sure every single one
of your employees has a greathealthcare solution, or we're
going to walk in your businessand save you.
We'll save businesses with 20people $180,000, right, we go,
we're going to save you a ton ofmoney.
We start growing business tobusiness to business and putting
all of that capital back intothat local community and back

(54:05):
into the pockets of thoseemployees and back into the
capital expenditures of thosebusinesses and every single one
of those people vote.
Why didn't they shut down?
Right, the taxicab industrywanted to shut down Uber.
Why didn't they?
Because all those constituents,for all those politicians, took
Uber and if they shut down Uber, those politicians weren't
going to have a job anymore.
Right, so you create a greatproduct that solves a major

(54:28):
problem, right, for employers inthis society of ours and
individuals in this society, andmedicine in this society.
You solve that.
Come on, I'll be happy to takea fight, but that's one I'm not
going to worry about winning.
We might be David and Gliath alittle bit, but I got my rock
and I'm not too worried that myrock's not going to take david
down, goliath down, alan.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
amen to that you like your rock.
Yeah, I like the rock.
Do you want to keep going?
No, I'm good.
No man, we're going to rockthis stuff out, all right, hey,
everybody.
Uh, brian, where are our?
Sorry, it's a brian doctor thatain't'll be.
Brian, dr Brian, I know whatstates are you.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
So our focus so I'll hit you on this Our focus is
really, kind of, honestly, theGeorgia marketplace is our hyper
focus right now, and by thatI'm really even talking about
the.
This major metropolitan Atlantaarea is my hyper focus.
It's our I can't say a Petridish, but this is really where
we're seeing ourselves to wantto rapidly grant, you know, grow
and expand.
Um, that being said, I mean wecan.
We're expanding in florida,we're in texas, we're in alabama

(55:25):
, we're in tennessee, we're insouth carolina.
So we've got our tentaclesspreading out as we move along.
But my, my focus is here allright.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
So, listen, he's uh figuring it out.
I know, uh, as alan has said,we're in 15 continents, and I
think we're in what?
Uh?
25 planets, now, a couple ofgalaxies, yeah, sure.
So, uh, guys, if you're hearingthis outside.
What we're talking about,though, is revolutionary.
This is a business model.
This is a guy who I'm a doctor,I was trained to be a doctor.

(55:55):
I want to help my why, and Ifigured out something different,
and then I saw something Ididn't like, and he's a
disruptor.
That's how we make businesshappen, that's what small
businesses do, and that's whathe's talking about doing.
If you're here in Georgia, dude, go look this guy up.
Brian Hill, hip nation.
We'll put all the deets in theuh, in the uh, show notes.
It's gonna happen because thisstuff is real stuff, because I'm

(56:18):
a uh, I'm a believer, and ittook me a long time.
I'll be honest.
This is one of those thingswhere I don't sign up day one.
I'm, the engineer in me has tofigure it all out, and I, man, I
, I it's exciting, I mean youknow, because I will tell you
what the solution right, doesn'tknow, is it actually?
uh, two of my friends havesigned up with them already.
So because they're like you,already believe in it, I'm like

(56:41):
yeah well, so boom, yeah, andeverybody put their companies on
it already, because it's thatgood.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
I mean, everybody either just is a part of the
system, or then they go, oh, orwe'll do a government plan, and
neither of them work.
Yes, and this is reallyexciting, right?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (56:58):
this is the thing, yeah, exactly that you hit on
right.
So social, uh, social, uh uh,educate or social, um, what's
the word?
Medicine?
Thank you, I I know so many uhso many people coming from
canada that are working downhere to get away from that and
the.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
The narrative you're being told is oh, it's great
because it's free.
Well, it's not.
Nothing's free, no, and andthis, you know this if you're 20
and you're healthy, yeah, it'sgreat, but if you need a knee
replaced, good luck you know.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
All right.
So back to brian's point.
I'm gonna end here and thenwe're gonna ask him the famous
four questions.
Free market free market doctorsis who I want to work with?
Right, because they want tomake as much money as they can,
because they're really good atwhat they do.
Yep, what does everybody fromCanada do?
Come down to the US and say,hey, I'm down here for the
summer.
Oh, my God, my eye hurt.

(57:49):
And, by the way, we do loveCanada.
We do love Canada.
Hey, canadians love you guys.
Right?
I'm sorry that I'm bringingthis up so sorry.
Hockey's the best sport.
Actually, you're not going tojoke with me on that one.
Your beer is so much better.
The beer and the hockey is somuch better, yay, and I went to
school north of where mostCanadians live, that's true.
That's where I play football,all right.

(58:12):
So that's where my 6'8 and 6'9guys were with me, my pillars.
At every bar I went to as Iwreaked havoc with everybody,
all.
At every bar I went to as Iwreaked havoc with everybody,
all right, doc, how can we find?

Speaker 3 (58:22):
you online.
So our hipnationcom that'sH-I-P.
P as in Paul nationcom Come toour website, take a look at what
we're doing.
If you're interested inlearning more, hearing more,
we've got a simple little clicka button on the website get a
quote, have a conversation withour team.
We are loving what we're doingto try to help make businesses
better and provide a bettersolution to their employees.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Feel the passion.
Everybody this is awesomeComing through it.
You're driving around in yourtruck, You're figuring it out.
If you hung with us this long,let's hang a little bit longer,
Doc.
What's the best book you wouldadvise for a business book
trying to scale a business?

Speaker 3 (58:56):
A business book I could degrade so old you know
kind of, but it is an oldie butgoodie, um, so I I think that's
been very valuable.
Um, walking backwards, I foundthat as a really interesting
book and a book about Amazon, uh, and kind of talks about how
they approached you know, kindof looking at innovative ideas
within Amazon and how theypresented those to each other.
So I think that's a maybe onethat I found very helpful.

(59:18):
I haven't heard that one before.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
I like that.
Well, that is a good one.
Yeah, I like the case studybooks anyway.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
All right.
The reason I said business,because I was afraid he was
going to start bringing out someof your urology books.
I don't want to hear aboutthose tools or the instruments,
or none of those.
The rusty saw.
Bite this, what Bite down, son.
You won't hear a thing.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
all right, uh, number two uh, what's the favorite
feature of?

Speaker 1 (59:48):
your home, oh my pool , oh beautiful, why?

Speaker 3 (59:50):
uh, because it's just a place my wife and I get to
kind of escape into and justswim and it's where we do our
exercise, and it's just a placeof solitude.
So, do you have a swim up bar?
No, swim up bar, although Iwould say this so my wife will
laugh.
So we, we, I'm more of a scotchperson, so so we'll put a
scotch at the end and we'll swim.
You know, swim laps back andforth and and as you're swimming

(01:00:12):
, you just stop at the end andsip on your scotch and just keep
on going back and forth.
I like this doctor yeah, he ismy that kind of doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
I get a pool and I just just got to be a.
We have a teddy bed and we havea swim bar, but don't worry
about that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
All right back to me.
Do I need that lie detectortest again?

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Let's talk about me.
Let's talk about me, can wetalk?

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
about me more.
Yeah, all right, all right, doc, one of the big things,
obviously.
Alan and I have done a lot ofhome services stuff.
I work in the home servicesindustry, but one of the big
things that we talk about,though, is customer service is
huge everywhere, and when we'reout there, we're kind of
customer service freaks.
Exactly what's a customerservice pet peeve?

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
of yours, oh, everything that happens in
medicine.
So you walk into a physician'soffice, what's the very first
thing they say to you?
Ask for your card.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
What's your insurance card?

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
they go, hi, alan, welcome to my office, great to
see you I was thinking aboutthat earlier when you were
talking yeah, can you fill thisout again?
Yeah, fill this, but you feelthis paperwork out again.
You're like I just filled itout like three months ago,
nothing's changed.
Sorry, fill it out again.
There's no customer service andthe hippa it will, exactly.
Well, it's really billingdocuments, right.
And the reason why is why?
Because it's not about you,it's about the insurance company
.
It tells you once again thatwhen you walk in, they go what's
your insurance card?
They're going to go.

(01:01:26):
I'm going to do what theinsurance company tells me to do
, because they're my payer, notyou.
Get them out, you know.
So everything that happens inmedicine not everything, but
medicine is pretty poor on thecustomer service side, we all
have to admit that's a prettybig pet peeve, right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
I I mean every time you walk in there like I don't
know you.
But but, sherry, I was herelike a month ago to run blood
because I don't have any issues.
But I might have been there, myliver might've been having some
problems.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Yeah, hypothetically.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
I brought my friend's blood.
Can you use this?
All right, all right, last one,let's do it.
All right, all right, last one,let's do it.
Give us a DIY nightmare story.
I want to hear how the doctorworked at his own house and
almost lost his finger.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
So, to be honest with you, I'm smart enough to
realize that I am a terrible DIYperson and my ability ends in
the operating room.
My toys work there, but I tellpeople if there's anything I
need to do outside of that, I'mgoing to have to call somebody
else in that's a lot smarter andskilled than I am.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Oh, I got a surgery question so if you look at your
schedule and you go oh, tomorrowI get to do this procedure
which one gets you excited?

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Oh, I love taking kidneys out with cameras, see,
it's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Holy, see, it's fun.
Holy shit, dude.
I was about to you know whatone of my favorite ones like
when I hear hey, we're gonnaspan 23 feet that we engineered
we.
But that one gets me excited.
He just said I take kidneys outwith cameras and I think on
that one we gotta oh my god, getout of here, go make it happen.
Brian hill, dr brian hill, he,because he deserved it.
Man, 14 freaking years doingwhat he did.
Dr brian hill, hip nationmaking a difference.

(01:03:06):
Go listen to this episode ifyou didn't listen to it listen
again.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Well, they wouldn't be listening to it now if they
weren't listening to it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
No, I think I think sometimes people pick up the
last part of the great last one.
No, I don't think that thatworks.
All right, we're out here.
Go make it a big day.
Let's go.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}[Revisiting] Revolutionizing Health Care Delivery - Dr. Brian Hill (HipNation)