February 25, 2025 • 47 mins
Sales is more than just closing a deal—it's about the mindset that drives your interactions with potential clients. In this episode, we sit down with Jacob Hicks to unpack the nuances of a successful sales mindset. We explore why understanding the value of every interaction can have a profound effect on your business growth. Jacob emphasizes the importance of being genuinely curious about your customers' pain points, enabling you to uncover hidden opportunities for additional sales.
He discusses how to maintain a customer-centric approach, focusing on value selling as you engage with clients, ensuring their needs are met beyond the immediate issue at hand. We further delve into practical strategies for consistent follow-up that not only reinforce the value you provide but also help you stay present in the minds of your clients. Jacob also highlights the importance of maintaining an abundance mindset amid the challenges faced within the sales cycle.
Are you struggling to maintain motivation during slow sales periods? This episode will resonate with you as we share insights on celebrating small wins and the role of grit in overcoming obstacles. Jacob’s process includes affirmations and visualization to reset your mindset for each client interaction, aiming to create a better experience for you and them.
Whether you're in sales or looking to improve your business relations, this episode equips you with practical tools and inspiration to shift your mindset from scarcity to abundance. Tune in, discover new insights, and prepare to approach your sales strategy with renewed passion and purpose! Don’t forget to subscribe and share your thoughts with us after listening!
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're saying just keep talking to them and you're
going to find four pain pointsthat might lead to more business
.
Exactly, is that what I'mhearing?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, because we're talking about the immediate
issue and then the long term,right.
So again, you might have comeover to their home just to fix
that one problem.
But as you're talking to themthey say, hey, in six months I'm
thinking about expanding myhome or renovating, and maybe
that's work that you do.
So you log that away in yourhead or in your CRM, as
everybody should have, and thenin three, four, five, whatever
months, you reach out to themagain and say hey, john, it was
(00:30):
great to chat with you.
How's the water heater doing?
I know last time we talked youwere talking about looking into
an expansion in your home.
Are you ready to have thatconversation?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help
guide you to avoid those traps,pitfalls and dangers that lurk
when navigating the wild worldof small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through the
(01:04):
safari and get you to themountaintop.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Now we're on.
I know we're rolling.
No, we're not.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
We are rolling, alan, if the lady didn't tell me
we're recording.
I know because you know what.
Our guest has preempted ourlady with his own phantom.
Taker ai is taking over alan Idon't like it no, you're gonna
have to embrace it, my friend.
Embrace it today.
Everybody banks trap in ifyou're driving around making
things happen like we all needto happen every day.
(01:39):
We're solving problems everyday.
I'm solving no, all right, so Ican't even wrap.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm really glad you didn't go any further with that,
okay, good all right.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
So today we got jacob hips on and we're going to talk
a lot more about sales mindset.
Um, I asked jacob to talk aboutthat um when we uh kind of were
talking about doing all this,because I don't know if we all
have what we need to have to dothis.
You know the sales mindset.
How do you get yourself in thatright mindset to do the sales,
because that's your lifeblood,that's how you're going to grow
(02:12):
your business, right?
You're going to say, oh, I cando referrals.
Oh, you know, I got customerbase.
Uh, no, uh, you got to be insales.
You got to be in that salesmindset.
It's so hard to keep yourselfin that mindset.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
But before we do that , alan, oh, would you like to
talk about something else?
I would.
Does it have anything to dowith you?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Of course, so let me, let's go there.
Oh my God, let me tell you I'mmaking a star out of you, Guys,
if you're not listening to thispodcast, if you're listening to
it, man man, go out there andcheck me out.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
If they're not listening to the podcast, then
they're not going to hear whatyou have to say.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Well then you're not listening.
Listen, listen now, everybody,please listen now.
Lean in.
You didn't take your meds today.
Chrislolamiacom.
Baby, we're going worldwidehere soon.
That podcast is getting someserious juice.
Go out there and tell yourfriends to listen to this one.
(03:06):
Just literally had somebodytell me check this out.
You ready?
Yeah, I'm ready.
She says Chris.
I just had a student of minesay I saw that you took a
picture with Chris Laulamia inAtlanta.
I didn't know, you knew him, Ilove his podcast.
She was on his Zoom call.
Like how old is this student?
Well, he's trying to start hisown business in athens oh okay,
(03:27):
he goes.
I love bottom line.
I love what chris and alan hi Iget a little mention.
I get a little mention of whathe brings to the table this
guy's my favorite about becausethey've helped me figure out how
to start my business.
My kids have been telling me tostart a business.
I didn't know if I wanted to doit.
I'm on this class right nowbecause I see a niche in this
(03:48):
area that you can help me with.
So she reached out and westarted talking and I said all
right, we're going to get you onmy podcast as well.
She goes yeah, I didn't realizehow big of a celebrity you are.
I said well, let me tell her.
Let me tell you how big I shewas totally stroking you what I
mean?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
you're so easy to manipulate.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Oh, my God, don't call it catfishing.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Don't call it catfishing, alan oh my God.
I believe that's what that wasAll right.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
So actually I know her.
She's on our podcast.
It's Janet Engel.
Oh, janet, yeah, but she wastelling me, big of a star you
are.
I'm like oh, janet, please,you've been with me.
I'm a big star, I'm a legend inmy own mind.
Everybody, you can kiss my ringnow.
Okay, thank you, jacob hicks.
Thank you, I want to get to thenext thing.
So, jacob, you're from iowa.
Oh, was I preventing you.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yes, sir, I am from small town go hawks, go hawks.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Baby and chiefs chiefs yeah, chiefs, chiefs.
No.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
He's got a winner team.
You know what I hate thatwinner team Don't get me wrong.
That's it, Alan we're done.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
You know what?
That was the end of the dynasty.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Thanks for having me on Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
You know what?
You know what?
I swear all been waiting forthe Lions to win, because they
drive cars that were built bythe Lions.
They are all getting aroundbecause of the D baby, and
(05:15):
that's right, kid Rock comingdown on your town, eminem,
making it happen, we're alldoing it.
We're going to kick the crapout of the lowly Chiefs.
And no, we are not.
They can cry.
And so what did I do?
I watched the super bowl bymyself.
No, I did in protest was nobodyhere.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
No, I should have had you over in my house.
You know what I had?
No, my buddy in texas sent me anine pound brisket, 48 jalapeno
cheddar smoked sausages.
I made tam tamales pintos.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
All right, so I didn't advertise it because I
did play golf in the morning.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
By yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
No, I played with people.
Okay, real people, real people,not just magic, but real people
.
Who watched me snap a realwedge over my real real?
Did you really?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
break a club I did.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I was so mad, alan, did you chunk or chili dip or
double I I uh, that one Ichunked.
Yep, I chunked it because Ikeep buying these stock clubs
off you should buy cheaper clubs, just so you, I can't.
Well, that's what I just did.
I bought a stock club which isan inch shorter.
Uh, you can't tell this, jacob,because we're sitting.
Alan is, uh, six, seven, six,eight, maybe seven, four, I
don't even know.
(06:23):
But uh, and I'm six, two, so a.
You can't tell this, jacob,because we're sitting.
Alan is 6'7", 6'8", maybe 7'4",I don't even know, and I'm 6'2"
, so a little bit of a tallerguy.
But my clubs are all an inchlonger, right?
Yeah, so I tried to get anotherwedge because I lost one Wink
wink.
It's in the pond.
Wink wink.
Hey, alan, we don't talk aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I'm Italian, jacob, so I don't know if you know
Italians.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
We don't talk about where they go, his club is
sleeping with the fishes.
That's probably true, but thisone has been a stock club and I
went for it and I had to leandown a little further.
I was actually starting to getmy groove back on and I just
chunked the crap out of him.
I'm like that's it.
I back on and I just chunkedthe crap out of him, like that's
(07:11):
it, I'm done.
I keep trying to work with you.
You're not working with me,we're done.
And the.
I have these three guys I playwith.
They're in my club, they knowme.
I played with two of thembefore and the third guy's like
whoa.
Did that just happen?
Oh, it just happened.
My friend, what hole were youon?
we were on 13 okay, so you youcould limp home it's, it's worse
when it happens on the thirdhole.
Yeah, hey, choke up on a nineiron jacob, that's right.
All right, so go hawks.
(07:32):
Great job.
So let's talk a little bit, canwe please?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
yeah, I want to know what he has to say about sales
all right, let's talk salesmindset.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So, jacob, let's talk about how do we get in the
right sales mindset.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So I mean really the first.
The first thing you have tobear in mind is if you are
coming from value, then youaren't bothering people, because
most people, particularlyentrepreneurs, if they are
selling, they think that theyare to be bothering people if
they're following up with themconsistently over the next
several months or years orwhatever the case might be.
So if you are focusing onproviding value and actually
serving your customer andproviding quality information to
them, then you aren't botheringthem.
(08:11):
That's usually the first issuethat people are really
struggling with.
The second thing that I alwaysrecommend to people is
implementing systems over thelong term, so you actually know
what will happen as soon as youmeet somebody at a networking
event and then the follow-upsfrom the first, you know, couple
of weeks to the next few months.
Then over the course of thenext several years, you actually
know exactly how you're goingto be communicating with them
(08:34):
and how that's going to belooking all right.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
So let's talk about this value selling.
We talk about this one a lot,but I think for a lot of people
that don't get it yet, yeah, soyou have a good example.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So the best examples I've been able to give folks
when you're talking about likethis, this selling from value
and providing follow up, isfirst need to come from
curiosity, meaning that you arereally trying to understand
where this person is in theirlife and what they might be
looking for, and be willing totell them like hey, I don't know
that my services or productsnecessarily make sense for you
(09:08):
right now, and here's why.
But usually in order to reallyclose a sale, we have to
identify four problems for anindividual prospect and we have
to generally four problems toreally identify the given
solutions to and to get thosefour problems.
Usually we have to ask at least12 questions in order to get
(09:30):
those identified.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Now, when it comes to so wait a minute, I want to
unpack that a little bit,because I think most people in
sales it's like you want to findtheir hot button or their
heartburn it kind of implies oneproblem.
Yeah, so you're saying fourproblems.
I mean, do you you have fourdifferent categories or are you
saying in any scenario there'sfour?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I say four problems like talk about like four
different pain points, like fourdifferent areas that they might
be hurting or struggling orjust finding difficulty in.
Because when you focus only onlike the heartburn, like you
were just talking about, thenusually as sales folks we can
get a little on theshort-sighted side, meaning that
I know that this person ishaving X, y and Z problem and I
(10:15):
have X, a, b and C solution, soI'm gonna go in and sell super
hard because I know that'll getme an immediate sale.
But you wanna make sure you'recontinuing to identify problems,
to continue to provide value tothat person immediately so you
get that immediate sale,hopefully then also be able to
provide value to them over thenext several months to years.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
All right, I'm still not done with this.
You keep going, dude, becauseI'm taking notes on this.
So Chris is going into acustomer's house, he's got a
professional handyman service.
He's all that customer's house.
He's got a professionalhandyman service.
He's all that, he knows he'sgood, and they identify a pain
(10:53):
point and he can sell the dealright on that one.
You're saying keep digging upmore pain.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
So keep just finding things to provide value to them.
So if you're like, if you'reusing, like your example, like
you're, a handyman service, andusually, at least in my
experience, people will call youbecause hey, you know my water
heater isn't working or you knowwhatever the case might be, and
when you're going into theirhome, have a conversation with
them and see where theirproblems are, and keep talking
to them and keep askingquestions and keep coming from
(11:18):
curiosity until you identifypotential other options or other
potential pain points.
Because, as we know, when itcomes to like handyman services,
usually things can break, butthings will generally last
longer if we maintain them well,so providing that maintenance
for them can be another optiontoo.
So I always say keep digginguntil you find multiple pain
(11:41):
points.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I love that one Keep digging You're going to make
them cry if you get four painpoints.
I say keep digging points.
I love that one, keep digging,right.
You're gonna make them cry ifyou get four pain points.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I I still keep digging.
I love that I am well, here'sthe thing.
So, hey, you brought the waterheater up thing, and so that
really not too many happen thatway.
But let's go.
Drywall, or this handle's notworking or this sink fixer's not
working or my door.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
My door keeps sticking.
How?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
about that one.
Let's skip that one.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
A little inside baseball there.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
That's not fun.
We're going to end this podcastin a minute.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
There's going to be a horse head in my bed.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know what I think Alan's going to find where that
club went.
All right For everybody.
Yes, I replaced Alan's frontdoor and, yes, that thing keeps
sticking.
It's not sticking right now.
It works like a champ.
All right, I had to come outthere and do some final touches
on it.
But, going back to it, so, mrand Mrs Jones, I came out today,
(12:41):
I'm looking at this.
Yeah, I got drywall.
I need to get fixed.
I have two sink fixtures I wantto change out in the hall bath
and my kids' bathroom upstairs,and so you know the pain point.
But you don't.
And so you ask well, why are wedoing this?
Well, you know we want tochange things.
Okay, here's the next questionwhy now?
Right, so why is this importantto you now?
(13:04):
So back to Alan.
Why is it so important to youto make sure that front door
opens?
Well, I found out, actuallywith Alan, but he doesn't know,
as I did dig, because thecleaner comes in through the
front door and she likes to puther big old freaking shoulder
into the front door.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
She's a tiny littleian woman and she has to
hit it like a linebacker to openthe six foot four, 350.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Samoan is a little.
I don't know who is, but she'strying to break my front door
and I'm kidding, but uh.
So I knew that she couldn't getin the front door and that's a
problem, because she's afraid totell alan that there's a
problem.
And when she's afraid to tellalan there's a problem, then the
wife has to get involved.
And if the wife has to getinvolved, and if the wife has to
get involved, who does not likeconflict and does not like to
(13:49):
talk to anybody has to say I'mso sorry that I had to let you
in.
Lupita or whatever her name is.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Let's just call her Lupita.
Judy would just use the backdoor for the rest of her life
rather than have a conversationwith you.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
So we did why?
And then why?
Now, right, that's number two.
So I agree with Jacob You'vegot to keep digging, Ask those
questions you don't know, right?
I don't know what I don't know,but what I found out from Alan
when I was there and I was notperturbed.
I made jokes about this.
Is he listening?
I hear wait, Hank, was he goingto turn?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
He's an asshole.
This is live on the air no, butuh, he was right.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Well, here's what I heard my cleaning lady can't
come through the front door,therefore judy feels like she
has to sit there and wait forher to let her in.
So there is no conflict.
And I heard all of that, evenwith you saying, well, it might
clean it.
Because I was like man, howoften do you use your front door
, dude?
And I was like, uh-huh, I gotit, I'm actually trying.
You use your front door, dude?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
And I was like uh-huh , I got it.
I'm actually trying to use myfront door a lot.
I mean, here in the South itseems like everybody goes to
their garage.
Yeah, of course we do, yeah,but it seems like in the South
also, your garage doors break alot and they trap you in.
So I'm like trying, I'veactually got a schedule to
(15:04):
grease my rails once a quarter,yeah and hey, let's use the
front door, like it's supposedto, more often.
And then the cool little doorthat you put into the little
private barbecue deck, we usethat one too.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
So let me tell a little story about uh how I grew
up.
So my dad, I uh, opened thedoor and I closed it.
And I opened the door at thecar door and closed it again.
And he turns around and he justscreams at me.
The door has so many open andcloses.
You decide if you're going outor if you're staying in.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Sam is the man.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, that's right, he's not listening to this
podcast, even though he's beenon it.
But, yes, he's formed me.
So, jacob, back to sales,finding those problem points,
let's talk a little bit moreabout that.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You hear those pain points.
How do you react as a sales guy?
How do you keep going?
You want to just startcataloging these things in your
head Again, going to our exampleof the handyman that comes over
to fix the door that's gettingstuck as you're chatting with
somebody and you're discoveringthese other issues and other
things.
Just start cataloging thesethings in your head.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Chris is just giving me the double birds while we
keep talking about that doorthat sticks.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yep, that's true, but at least in my mind, if you
find, let's say, three or fourmore immediate projects in
somebody's home as you'retalking to them, but they just
haven't reached out to you orsomebody else to fix them yet, I
mean you could offer them somesort of package deal, Say, hey,
you had me come over to fix thisproblem, but if we do all this
together I can give you a betterrate.
But then you can also providejust again, providing value to
(16:37):
them, not necessarily as moneyin your pocket, but let's say
you're talking to them, Maybethey're thinking about, you know
, renovating their house oradding an addition or something
like that.
Maybe that's not the work thatyou do, but you know the people
in the business, right.
So again, you're providingvalue.
To say, hey, you know, I knowthat you're looking into, um,
you know expanding your home andI know some really, really
(16:57):
great folks that can get allthat stuff done for you you're
not saying we need to find fourpain points on that one item.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
You're saying just keep talking to them and you're
going to find four pain pointsthat might lead to more business
.
Exactly, is that what I'mhearing?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, because we're talking about the immediate
issue and then the long term,right.
So again, you might have comeover to their home just to fix
that one problem.
But as you're talking to them,they say, hey, in six months I'm
thinking about expanding myhome or renovating, and maybe
that's work that you do.
So you, you log that away inyour head or in your CRM, as
everybody should have, and then,in you know, three, four, five,
whatever months, you reach outto them again and say you know,
(17:39):
hey, john, it was great to chatwith you.
How's you know the water heaterdoing?
I know last time we talked youwere talking about looking into
an expansion in your home.
Are you ready to have thatconversation?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Love that point.
You actually hit on one that'sa big one.
So you're a sales guy, you'rein the house and you're talking
and they say, well, here's myimmediate need, and of course
you solve that immediate needand you don't try to oversell
because you're trying to getthat one sale.
You know, I know guys espousedlike hey, go in there and try to
give them as much as you can.
(18:10):
I'm like, yeah, I think you gotto give them the ticket and the
immediate need.
But you just hit a, serve thatimmediate need, solve it and
then turn back around and say,hey, while I was there you said
X, y, z.
So how do you put that intoyour sales methodology and your
sales follow-up?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
So when it comes to like, you have to have the
systems in place, and I mean,fortunately, a lot of
entrepreneurs that I have workedwith or I have talked to they
use, like, excel spreadsheets,which that's okay, very, very,
very early on, and I say onlyokay, but really at some point
you have to establish, you haveto start building out a CRM of
(18:47):
some sort.
When I say CRM a clientresource manager, customer
relationship manager, whateveryou want to call it and there's
a there's a million of them outthere anymore.
And what I always recommend tofolks is you know, take whatever
your industry is let's say it'syou know home maintenance stuff
again and just do homemaintenance CRM and see what
comes up.
And usually there's a lot ofvery industry specific ones out
(19:07):
there anymore.
But what that will againgenerally allow you to do is
when you meet somebody and yougo over to their house, you meet
them one time to fix whateverit is that their house.
Then you can jot a note toyourself.
So you know, hey, when I wastalking to John, we fixed this
thing and he said he was talkingabout fixing something else or
doing an expansion on his homein six months.
Then you go into your CRM, youput those notes in there and
(19:30):
then you leave yourself a noteto reach out to them again.
But you have to be consistent.
You can't just say, hey, I wentover to John's house, I fixed
his sink for him and he wastalking about expanding his home
, and then I'm going to reachout to him again in five months
because by then it's gone cold.
So what you want to do is youwant to have consistent
follow-up and consistent contactwith him, not to say like you
know, hey, you know we're, youknow are you ready to do your
(19:52):
thing yet, but just providingvalue and saying, no, hey,
here's the.
I know I've done a lot of myhome expansion, home renovations
, and here's you know kind of mythree or four tips that people
really easily overlook and Iwant to make sure to send that
over to you.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It was a good email and just saying it For our
listeners who aren't using a CRM.
I mean, the key to me is thefact that you can idiot proof
the triggers.
So in this case the example yougave in six months they need to
do this X, y, z.
You can put in a reminder tofollow up with them in six
months, but, to your point, whatyou also need to set up is some
(20:26):
sort of a campaign to stay intouch with them during those six
months.
Chris, you've got that going onright, you just switched.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
CRMs.
We did just switch CRMs, and Iwill tell you that one of the
things that we're lacking inthis is the drip campaign that
we're talking about, and that isthe because.
Again, 42% of our business lastyear, 42% of our business was
for repeat customers, and so inthe handyman world that's the
benefit, and in any world it is.
But you know again, in otherareas that I know the best,
(20:53):
which is home services.
If I replace your airconditioner, I'm probably going
to service it for the next 15.
But I'm not going to replace itfor another 15.
If I painted your house, I'mlucky if I come back in three,
five or seven, and so I knowthat we have a lot more repeat.
But back to that drip campaignstaying present, staying top of
mind, and one of the things uh,jacob, you you kind of alluded
(21:17):
to it, but I'll hit this one foryou uh, for us, my urgency is
to get your money their urgency,let's just call it like it is
Did he didn't say that?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
No, he really didn't.
He was talking about value, ohvalue.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, I just want your money, chris Lalamia.
Oh, did I paraphrase wrong,jacob?
I apologize.
We'll take that out of context,that's all right, I like money
too.
As John Ray told me edit, takethat out.
Oh, it's not going to happen,don't worry, we don't do that
here, so it's go back in.
So back to this again.
I just want your money, I justwant your, but our, our deal is
(21:55):
we want to, but it's not apriority for these folks and you
got to stay in front of them tomake this a priority and I like
how you said that, because youmake that at least, at least
available to them.
It's an option.
You're not pressuring them, you.
You just tell them hey,remember when we talked before,
it was this and are you stillready for that?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, I was going to say too, I mean, your drip
campaign doesn't have to be allabout that one thing, like, for
example, when I was in realestate.
One of my favorite kind offollows is, every fall, once it
starts getting colder, we wouldsend out an email to everybody
we'd worked with and say, hey,make sure to disconnect your
hoses in your yard and take allthe water out of them.
(22:35):
You want to make sure they'renot freezing on you, and that's
a value add.
That's not really selling themon anything.
I mean there's tons of stuffout there.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You're just staying in front of them.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
You're staying in front of them and you're
providing value, which I thinkour newsletter did.
You see my last newsletter.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I did.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Did you watch my video?
Oh my God, I don't think I didEdit Alan's not here any longer
Alan is with my wedge.
What?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
All right, I normally do, I think this time I just
wanted to scroll down and seehow long it was.
It was a rather voluminousemail.
It was 115 on the video.
No I didn't watch the video.
I just wanted to see how longthe actual text was.
Oh, it just kind of kept goingBecause it meets for everybody.
We're at a 47% open.
So are you more of the shotgunapproach rather than the sniper?
(23:23):
What do you say about that insales?
Just kind of just blasteverything, throw spaghetti on
the wall and see if anythingsticks.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I've got more bourbon Jacob is that a good newsletter
strategy.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So I mean you want to .
I mean you want to be targetedand you want to at least in my
opinion, when you're using yourCRM you can be very targeted in
your in your tagging.
So I mean if you met somebody ata networking event and you talk
to them about you know whateverhandyman work stuff, then make
a note of that and say, hey,they were talking about sync
stuff and you can send them aspecific, you know, sync related
(23:55):
value driven follow upinformation.
So I'm a big believer in,generally speaking, you can kind
of just do kind of mass emails,but you also want to be as
specific as you can.
So like, let's say, you aredoing some video work or you're
writing a blog post or whateverabout very specific thing, very
specific issue that people arehaving generally, you can go
(24:16):
back into your notes and say, oh, these you know five or 10
people when we talked last theywere struggling with that.
So I'm going to send them aspecific email just for them and
say you know, hey, I know lasttime we talked we were.
You know you know.
Hey, I know last time we talkedwe were.
You know you were strugglingwith this.
I just wrote this great articleabout it.
I'd love for you to check itout.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Hopefully it helps so you can be very, very targeted
and general at the same time.
All right, go ahead, I'm goingto.
I'm going to completely switchtopics.
So I, if you want to finishthis thread, let's go.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I've got a sales question Go.
You talk about fearless sales,and I love that phrase because I
think the best salespeoplereally act like they could care
less if the customer buys or not.
How do you have that mindsetwhen you have to go back to
(25:00):
Chris's office and he's going topop your tires and slit your
throat if you don't actually hita certain closing percentage?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
There know there's that hypothetically,
hypothetically, a Chris, let'ssay his name is Chris.
It's a hypothetical and a Chrisat the same time.
So and that might have happened.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
So I mean it's a couple of things really.
I mean this is like a more of ageneral kind of mindset piece
is like where are you reallycoming from?
And when I say that usuallypeople are either coming from
scarcity or they're coming fromabundance.
And when I say that, that meansthat you are either fear-driven
and, like you're, you'reworried about your boss, you
know chewing you out, or you'reworried about not making your
(25:42):
next sale because you know youneed to pay rent or whatever.
But and those things can bevery well be true but when you
come from abundance and youchoose, you have to choose to
come from abundance, meaningthat, yes, I want to make this
sale, I want to please my boss,but if it doesn't happen, I can
only control what I can control.
And if it, if it doesn't happen, then I'm going to go out.
(26:02):
And I'm going to go outtomorrow.
I'm going to do it again andagain and again until, like you
know, close the deals greatquestion, great answer.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I'm gonna give you one, thank you.
It's been a while since I'vegotten one.
You got one, one, one, okay,and so I'm still at zero.
So I love, jacob.
You hit on exactly what happensif you're going out there
selling scared, if you're goingout there selling like if I
don't make this sale, my kidswon't eat.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
They smell it, they feel it your kids are going to
be skinny you're.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
You got skinny kids, and what do you want?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
but how do you get that mindset of abundance when
you know your kids are going tobe skinny?
No, it's scary kids.
I know I want fat kids, but mykids are skinny and how do I
keep them from?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
so that's our uh our line that we've we've heard
before is but how do you do itright?
You got to ship that mindset toabundance because you know what
you may not be the right fitfor me as a customer for my
services, because I am so good,so good that you have to have me
so good, right?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
so, jacob, tell me how I'm so good so I mean
honestly, I think you hit thenail on the head.
A lot of sales people like theycome from scarcity and they're,
I mean, terrified they have tomake their numbers or whatever
the case might be.
What I always recommend tofolks is practice, being
comfortable, gettinguncomfortable, and what I mean
by that is you don't have to,like you know, go out and like,
let's say, you've never soldbefore.
(27:19):
You don't have to go outtomorrow and do you know a
hundred cold calls when you'venever done it before.
You're, you know, freakingterrified about it.
But what if you go out tomorrowand your whole goal is to have
one great conversation whileyou're cold calling and just
going through your call cyclelike that and just slowly,
incrementally getting used tobeing uncomfortable, and
(27:39):
eventually your comfort zonewill shift and you'll become
again more comfortable beinguncomfortable.
Like I've said a hundred timesalready, what I always recommend
to folks, too, is find whatyou're good at and stick to it.
So a lot of folks inparticularly in the sales world,
they are either like they'rereally good at follow-up, or
(28:02):
they're really good at closing,or they're really good at cold
calling, or whatever the casemight be.
Find that thing that you arereally really great at and stick
to it and find those small wins, and the small wins will help
drive the things you'reuncomfortable doing man, that's
a great point, because we justtalked about this.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
My own sales organization is that.
You know, momentum buildsmomentum, right?
Yep and uh, that's yogi birramomentum what a lot builds
momentum, this podcast,especially in this moment.
So, but we talk about findthose small wins and uh,
actually I'm going to bring thatback to my guys is that, hey,
what do you think you're thebest at?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
then go, let's go win at that you're right, because
when you're hot and you're on ayou're on a hot closing streak,
it just is so easy to get thenext one and you're not worried
about getting the next onebecause you just crushed the
last four or five.
How do you get that samemindset when you're 0 for 5 on
your last appointments?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's the harder part.
That's when grit shows up, andI mean I think maybe sales
arguably may be among the toptwo or three industries probably
where you have to have somelevel of grit.
You just have to be willing tosuck it up and continue.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
You just have to have that in you hey, so as a lions
fan, cheese fan, by the waycoming down lions.
Uh, super bowl champs 2026 justabout to happen.
Oh, go ahead, you call it, Ijust called it.
Um, our word of the year isgrit and so, but let's go back
to sales.
What is grit in sales?
I mean, define that for us.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So I think grit well, my definition of grit, I think,
is true in sales, but also trueacross industries and the way I
define grit is just thewillingness to continue, meaning
that sure you're experiencingself-doubt, maybe you just
started a business and you'relike man, I cannot find clients.
Things are sucking Like.
This is not great.
You continue anyway and in myexperience, if you're just
willing to continue while havinga learning mindset, then I
(29:56):
really don't think you can loseas long as you continue and you
continue to learn.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
So you got to have a short memory, right.
I mean, I think that's the.
Uh, I've taken a couple ofthings away'm going to keep
typing this down because I wantto share it with my guys,
because I think right now what'shappened to us in home services
is that in the winter, we'retaping this one now in February
of 2025.
So the winter months are alwaysslower for us in Atlanta,
(30:21):
because in December, if you'reserious about something, you get
it done.
In January, you're paying offcredit card debts In February,
it's still kind of cold here andyou only live in three rooms.
I don't care where you live inthe entire US, from the north to
the south, you only still livein three rooms.
If you have four seasons comingaround and so people ask me in
Michigan because I'm from thereoriginally, oh man, you must be
(30:42):
killing it 12 months a year.
I'm like, yeah, dude.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
I'm always killing it .
Speaker 3 (30:46):
But no, what happens is we get really slow and it's
hard to sell.
So back to the selling.
Thing is that I keep yelling atthese guys going hey man, you
got to convert every time you'rethere.
I'm going to use this one.
Let's find the one thing you'rereally good at.
Maybe it's the sales process,Maybe it's being there, being in
(31:11):
front of the customer then sellbetter.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Maybe it's your follow-up, maybe it's your
preparation, maybe it's thedetail you provide to them, I
don't know.
I love that idea.
Yeah, well, I can also say,when it comes to things are
struggling, you're just notgetting the closings that you
want.
Control what you can control,which is usually going to be the
amount of calls or meetingsthat you're setting, and then
make sure that you arecelebrating whatever small wins
might be coming up along the way.
And that can be like hey, we'renot getting the closings, but
hey, I made 100 cold calls today.
(31:33):
I set five more meetings.
That's a win in my book.
You close no business, sure,but I still consider that a win.
And you need to establishyourself as somebody who
celebrates those kinds of wins.
And it doesn't have to be hey,I'm going to take two weeks off
and go on a vacation, but itcould be hey, it's a beautiful
day outside, I'm going to go ona five minute walk, or I'm going
to grab a you know my favoritecoffee, or you know whatever the
(31:54):
case might be.
Just some small things thatwill reinforce that you are
doing the things you need to bedoing.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Not for nothing, alan , I forgot to tell you this part
, but yeah, next hole birdie.
Oh, you showed that club.
Huh, that validated my angerand I looked at the three guys.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
The rest of the clubs are just quaking in the back.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I looked at the other three guys.
I said never underestimateangry golf forever.
When people say find your zenin golf, I said angry golf
always works All right.
But no, that was a great, thatwas so fun.
That was so fun, that was sofun.
But did I celebrate that?
Win Jacob, absolutely 1,000%.
No, I was still mad because Istay angry.
(32:39):
So let's talk about that.
You know it's hard to get outof that doldrums, right, you've
had an 0 for a streak and it'shard.
And back to that winter.
It's a cold winter, you're notseeing the sales.
Your boss is on you like blahblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
How do you flip your mindsetbefore you go into that sales
call?
Tell us how you get your headright first.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
So my mindset always starts, it starts right first
thing in the morning withgratitude.
I'm a big believer that youknow.
If people always say likeattitude of gratitude, I think
it's the opposite.
I think if we, if we practiceintentional gratitude, then that
will lead to a better attitude.
So for me personally, I have alist of I don't know several
hundred different things nowwhere every day I try to think
(33:21):
of a new reason that I'mgrateful.
And in my life, particularly inthe last couple of years when I
been struggling or you're overor whatever, I will find reasons
to be grateful for the suckLike, find reasons to be
grateful for the things that arehurting or struggling or
because all of that is teachingyou at the end of the day.
And then, when it comes toflipping the switch, like right
(33:42):
before the sales meeting, I'm abig believer in visualization,
and that doesn't have to be,again, anything crazy, but it
could just be.
You know, you showed up to thatperson's house or whatever it
is, and take two minutes beforeyou walk into their house and
just visualize you going inthere and crushing it and it's
just a crazy great meeting.
You close a bunch of business,you have a great potential
(34:03):
business coming up, and thatwill I mean that ultimately lead
to success too, because you'recoming in, ready to go, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Be grateful for the suck Chris.
You know what Podcast titleright there.
Do you actually keep a list ofthings you're grateful for?
It sounds like you do.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yeah, well, for my last proper job W2 job it was a
really, really bad fit job and Ihated it and I was in that job
for well over a year and for amajority of it I hated all like
every single day, but everysingle day I would try to wake
up and think of a new reason Iwas grateful for that crappy job
.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
So, as I left my own business, or left the corporate
world to start my own business,nobody ever said God, I wish I
could stay here and get my W-2and get my paycheck every other
Friday.
God, I wish I could stay hereand get my benefits paid2 and
get my paycheck every otherFriday.
God, I wish I could stay hereand get my benefits paid for.
God, I wish I could get hereand get 3% on my match.
(35:01):
They all went.
Oh, chris, I wish I was youstarting my own business.
You're like, you know,motherfucker.
You know you're not, BecauseI'm telling you what people ask
me after four years.
You know I first started thebusiness.
What do you miss?
I said I missed that paycheck,bro.
I missed that paycheck, I saidbecause I was going to break
even in 18 months.
It only took me 36.
Yay, we, oh my god.
(35:22):
Way to go, chris.
Oh, you're amazing.
And it didn't happen.
So you're right.
You gotta, you gotta, you gottabe grateful for the suck.
Um, and I'm not, by the way, Iget angry at it.
Uh, that's the way I solvethings and that's what my
therapist has told me, I can dothat.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Grateful is not snapping your club over your
knee.
That's not so, jacob.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
I'm sorry, but if we play golf, just know that I'm
grateful that you're looking atme snapping my angry club over
my angry it doesn't know if weever do play golf.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I'm I'm terrible and I think the only round of 18 I
ever shot I was like 50 over, soI think you're probably okay
you know what?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
and here's the thing if I, if everyone else is
playing really bad around me oreverybody else is playing really
good, I just don't say it withme, care you don't care, because
I'm all about what I'm doing.
100 consumed with yourself I am,and I can't get out of my own
way, jacob, because my mindsetblows.
So let's get back to mindset.
So my guys go into sales callsand we talk about this.
(36:20):
I keep telling them hey guys,when you get outside of that car
, do whatever you got to do, dothe power pose, get your hands
in the air, but you got to flushthe trash.
The most important person inthat world is that sales call
that person you're talking toTalk about how you embrace that
moment and what should we bedoing?
Not to overdo it, but do it.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
So I mean, like the visualization piece and like the
power posing, I mean that canbe a ton of fun just to get you
in that right.
You know headspace.
Personally, I'm a big believerin understanding your why.
Because I mean if you don'tunderstand, like, why you're
doing what you're doing, then itdoesn't really matter anyway.
And just saying like, hey, Iwant to get a big commission is
not not nearly deep enough.
That's what I call a soft why.
We need to understand like, hey, maybe you do get a big
(37:04):
commission, but what does thatbig commission do for?
For you, for your family, foryour life?
All that kind of good stuff.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I love that idea but Alan's picking on this a little
bit.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I'm not picking on us , I'm picking on you.
Your whole existence is a soft.
Why?
According to Jacob, from what Ijust heard, no, but I know, but
I'm trying to.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Actually, what I was writing down was how do I take
my soft why?
And make theirs the hard why?
How do you make me more money,mfers, so I can go back to Vegas
on my private jet?
Hey, let I go back to vegas onmy private jet.
Hey, let's get everybody notkidding.
Hey, that's why you're podcast,because that's how we got here.
Um, but yeah, you're right.
I mean, I think you're rightwhen you walk in and, uh allen's
(37:44):
, we're making jokes about this.
But when I get in there, themost important person in the
world not my kids, not my wife,not my parents it is that
customer that I'm sitting eye toeye with and making that happen
.
And if you sit there and buyinto that and then sell from the
abundance mindset, tell me youcan't win.
You have to win.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Well and like and finding the things like I always
I call it um, like my, myretreat point.
So like, let's say, you go intosomebody's house, you're trying
to close business and you'rejust not getting anywhere, like,
how do you still make this awin?
And I think the ultimate, likethe very last resort, is
allowing them to um them,allowing you to contact them
again and following up with them, because I mean, at least in my
(38:25):
mind I'm, I'm kind of asalesperson that I will follow
up with you until either I dieor you die, and that's happened
before.
So I mean just finding those butfinding that, that those small
wins, even if you aren't closingthe business right, then, and
there are, I mean, critical overthe longterm.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, I told my guys drive for the no and uh one of
my new sales guys a couple ofyears ago, said so, you want
everybody to say no.
I said no, you want to drivethem to the point where they
just say no because you justfound out they're not ready.
Why now?
Why not now, right, and theyjust told you no, yeah, um, yeah
(39:03):
.
So I think that's powerful.
You know, what's funny is uh,we've worked with some elderly
people, we do a lot of aging andplace work and uh, we joke and
it's not funny but it's morbid,but it's gotta be funny because
I'm getting older and mymorbidity is getting closer is
uh, is I hurry up and get thatjob done before they die?
Yep, hurry up and get that, yes, before they die.
(39:24):
I love that.
So I.
So what are some routines orsome keywords you use to get
yourself ready to go?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Um, well, I mean, like I said, the visualization,
like I said before, and reallyunderstanding where your mindset
is currently.
Like if you're like say like oh, for you know 20 or whatever,
and you're struggling right now,like having like really playing
like that, like the mentalJenga, like that mental jujitsu,
and like saying like, no, I amgoing to get something done
because I'm doing the activityto get those things right.
I to get something done becauseI'm I'm doing the activity to
(39:56):
get those things right.
Um, I'm a big believer in inaffirmations too.
So, like for for me, forexample, on my bathroom year,
every morning, I read through myaffirmations that can be just
like hey, I'm, this is going tobe a great day.
Um, please let me, you know,bless those around me and to be
blessed as well.
And like finding like that kindof positivity will, I mean,
galvanize you, particularly withthe gratitude piece too alan,
do you do that in the pot?
Speaker 3 (40:17):
number morning valid, because alan's a uh, I mean
alan's a christ believer, he's afollower, he's a big guy.
I mean, all right, so am I.
But um, we talk about, is thatwhat you do in the pot every
morning?
I don't want to tell you what Ido there, I don't want to hear
about that, but but here's thepoint.
The point is, when you wake upevery morning, you've got to
reset your mindset, right?
Yep, you've got to get yourselfready.
(40:38):
I've actually just offeredmyself up to go talk to a Girl
Scout troop.
Alan, you're going to love this.
You offered, or they asked.
No, I offered.
Okay, because the Girl Scouts.
So you know, president Nary, Ihad the Girl Scouts come out and
sell Girl Scout cookies at ourlocal Nary event.
We had 175 people there, it wasan amazing event.
(40:59):
And they came in and I toldthem.
I came out to them and I saidgirls, what are we selling?
They said cookies.
I said okay, good, mental note,jacob.
What are they selling?
They said cookies Value Talk.
Let's talk for a minute.
They cookies value talk, let'stalk for a minute.
They said cookies, what can wefix them with?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
so tell me what I should teach the girl scout
about what they're they'rethey're actually selling I mean,
I guess I haven't sold cookiesbefore, but I mean finding,
jacob, you've never eaten girlscout cookies I've had your,
I've eaten them.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I haven't sold them, dude.
I have not only eaten them, Ihave hoovered them.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
You don't have to sell Girl Scout cookies.
I mean, I seriously, they justfly out of their little hands
into my truck you open, I openone.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
I'm like I'm just going to have one.
No, this one Samoa.
And the next thing I know, thewhole box is gone.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, Samoa is the best.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
And I just go to my next cookies as fast as I can.
That one's a fact.
Oh my God, those Girl Scoutcookies go down.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I'm like what are they selling though?
Honestly, I mean, because Imean I assume most of these, you
know, these girls are like theyprobably are here in Iowa where
they're setting up shops, youknow, like on a street corner or
whatever they're doing at aWalmart or something, and as
people come in and out of astore, you say, hey, you want to
buy some cookies.
Honestly, if it were me, Iwould say they are selling
experience, as weird as thatmight sound.
Because, like, really, whatthey want, like when, at least
(42:22):
when I'm buying cookies, likeyou want to, like I feel like
people just don't have thecharisma to like to sell like
that.
But you gotta be really, reallybig, of a big personality, you
know, say, hey, sir, you want tobuy some cookies, don't you?
Like?
What are you doing?
Come over here, you want to buycookies.
What are you doing?
Like being like really big,like that and like having a lot
of fun with your, your customersand telling people like, yeah,
I bought cookies, but man, likethese little girls were having
(42:44):
such a great time and like itwas so much fun to listen to
them talk and talk aboutwhatever they were, you know,
using the money for, like I feellike that would probably be
like really what they're sellingso the curmudgeon alan, who's
trying to watch this figure,does not like that because he
does not like cute little girlswho are really trying to just
help themselves get better andbecome young, independent women.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
You are putting down the young independent woman.
No, I just don't know.
I don't know how.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah I don't know how much you have to put into the
Girl Scout cookie sales, becausethey're so god dang good.
They are that good, you knowthey're good, you know you want
them.
Open your freaking purse upsidedown and just give me all your
money.
That should appeal to you,chris right?
I just want your money.
I just want your money.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
I just want your money.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
And in exchange you get these really yummy things
that are going to probably makeyou fat and you know, fight with
self-loathing and guilt andstuff, as you shove them all
into your face.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
And I have body dysmorphia all day long.
So I do so, jacob.
This has been awesome, man.
I love how you talked aboutsales mindset, but I'm going to
finish with what I learned fromwhat he just said is that to
sell Girl Scout cookies, forwhat I want is the most money I
can possibly get Girl Scoutcookies for what I want is the
most money I can possibly get,because if my daughter sells the
most Girl Scout cookies which,by the way, my daughter will not
(44:00):
be selling Girl Scout cookies,she's now an adult that you got
to be focused on the experienceand you got to make it happen
and you got to always be sellingyourself.
I don't care what you're doingevery single day.
You got to change your mindset.
You can't have a bad day.
You can have.
Change your mindset.
You can't have a bad day.
You can have a bad moment, youcan't have a bad day.
That's impossible.
You got to stop that.
Actually, that's the one thingthat I push in my kids.
(44:22):
You did not have a bad day.
You had a bad moment.
You let the bad day happen, butyou had a bad moment.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
You could have flipped the script Well, and
usually to go off of that for aminute like the like.
You had a bad moment and yourreaction to it was to ruin the
rest of your day.
You can't control like whathappened.
You can only control yourreaction.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
A hundred percent.
Love that, love it.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I'm saying You're the guy who snapped your nine iron
over your knee.
I had a bad moment, and what'dI do after that?
You snapped your club and theynever use it again it again.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
And what did I do after that?
You spited it by getting abirdie on the next hole.
That's right, and I loved everyminute of that and I and I'll
tell you what don't everunderestimate me, and spite,
because that is definitelymotivating.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
That could be your next book, spite sales all right
, I'll let you know when thatcomes out.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Jacob, that's awesome dude.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
You've been dropping the drums.
You've been making it happen.
Let's make it all happen.
Stale's mindset starts with you.
You've got to set it every day.
Jacob how can everybody findyou?
Speaker 2 (45:21):
So easiest is going to be through my website,
jacobhickscoachcom, so feel freeto drop me a note.
I love to hear from folks.
I'm on social media I meanFacebook, LinkedIn, TikTok,
Instagram, of course and thenjust recently launched my own
podcast, Purpose Driven Progress.
You can find that on Apple andSpotify, of course.
We've got a lot of good nuggetsin there for you.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Purpose Driven Podcast Jacob Hicks, that's
Jacob with a C Hicks H-I-C-K-S.
We'll put it all in the notes.
Go find it out, man.
Follow this kid, go check himout.
I'll tell you what.
All the feedback I'm gettingfrom uh, the folks I've been
hearing from who listen to ourpodcast, they listen, they want
to check out and they come checkyou out and see if it's going
to be a worthwhile.
(46:02):
So go ahead, hit him up, man.
He says, hey, come talk to me,let's go do it.
Man, go out there and talk tohim, find out what you can find
out.
Let's do it.
Everybody else, if you're notgoing to hit jac up, are you
really ready to change yourmindset?
Alan, I don't think so.
Let's snap that freaking wedge.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Let's make it happen, get yourself up that
mountaintop.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
We're going to go make money.
Cheers everybody.
You're saying just keep talking to them and you're
going to find four pain pointsthat might lead to more business
.
Exactly, is that what I'mhearing?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, because we're talking about the immediate
issue and then the long term,right.
So again, you might have comeover to their home just to fix
that one problem.
But as you're talking to themthey say, hey, in six months I'm
thinking about expanding myhome or renovating, and maybe
that's work that you do.
So you log that away in yourhead or in your CRM, as
everybody should have, and thenin three, four, five, whatever
months, you reach out to themagain and say hey, john, it was
(00:30):
great to chat with you.
How's the water heater doing?
I know last time we talked youwere talking about looking into
an expansion in your home.
Are you ready to have thatconversation?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help
guide you to avoid those traps,pitfalls and dangers that lurk
when navigating the wild worldof small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through the
(01:04):
safari and get you to themountaintop.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Now we're on.
I know we're rolling.
No, we're not.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
We are rolling, alan, if the lady didn't tell me
we're recording.
I know because you know what.
Our guest has preempted ourlady with his own phantom.
Taker ai is taking over alan Idon't like it no, you're gonna
have to embrace it, my friend.
Embrace it today.
Everybody banks trap in ifyou're driving around making
things happen like we all needto happen every day.
(01:39):
We're solving problems everyday.
I'm solving no, all right, so Ican't even wrap.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm really glad you didn't go any further with that,
okay, good all right.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
So today we got jacob hips on and we're going to talk
a lot more about sales mindset.
Um, I asked jacob to talk aboutthat um when we uh kind of were
talking about doing all this,because I don't know if we all
have what we need to have to dothis.
You know the sales mindset.
How do you get yourself in thatright mindset to do the sales,
because that's your lifeblood,that's how you're going to grow
(02:12):
your business, right?
You're going to say, oh, I cando referrals.
Oh, you know, I got customerbase.
Uh, no, uh, you got to be insales.
You got to be in that salesmindset.
It's so hard to keep yourselfin that mindset.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
But before we do that , alan, oh, would you like to
talk about something else?
I would.
Does it have anything to dowith you?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Of course, so let me, let's go there.
Oh my God, let me tell you I'mmaking a star out of you, Guys,
if you're not listening to thispodcast, if you're listening to
it, man man, go out there andcheck me out.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
If they're not listening to the podcast, then
they're not going to hear whatyou have to say.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Well then you're not listening.
Listen, listen now, everybody,please listen now.
Lean in.
You didn't take your meds today.
Chrislolamiacom.
Baby, we're going worldwidehere soon.
That podcast is getting someserious juice.
Go out there and tell yourfriends to listen to this one.
(03:06):
Just literally had somebodytell me check this out.
You ready?
Yeah, I'm ready.
She says Chris.
I just had a student of minesay I saw that you took a
picture with Chris Laulamia inAtlanta.
I didn't know, you knew him, Ilove his podcast.
She was on his Zoom call.
Like how old is this student?
Well, he's trying to start hisown business in athens oh okay,
(03:27):
he goes.
I love bottom line.
I love what chris and alan hi Iget a little mention.
I get a little mention of whathe brings to the table this
guy's my favorite about becausethey've helped me figure out how
to start my business.
My kids have been telling me tostart a business.
I didn't know if I wanted to doit.
I'm on this class right nowbecause I see a niche in this
(03:48):
area that you can help me with.
So she reached out and westarted talking and I said all
right, we're going to get you onmy podcast as well.
She goes yeah, I didn't realizehow big of a celebrity you are.
I said well, let me tell her.
Let me tell you how big I shewas totally stroking you what I
mean?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
you're so easy to manipulate.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Oh, my God, don't call it catfishing.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Don't call it catfishing, alan oh my God.
I believe that's what that wasAll right.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
So actually I know her.
She's on our podcast.
It's Janet Engel.
Oh, janet, yeah, but she wastelling me, big of a star you
are.
I'm like oh, janet, please,you've been with me.
I'm a big star, I'm a legend inmy own mind.
Everybody, you can kiss my ringnow.
Okay, thank you, jacob hicks.
Thank you, I want to get to thenext thing.
So, jacob, you're from iowa.
Oh, was I preventing you.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yes, sir, I am from small town go hawks, go hawks.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Baby and chiefs chiefs yeah, chiefs, chiefs.
No.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
He's got a winner team.
You know what I hate thatwinner team Don't get me wrong.
That's it, Alan we're done.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
You know what?
That was the end of the dynasty.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Thanks for having me on Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
You know what?
You know what?
I swear all been waiting forthe Lions to win, because they
drive cars that were built bythe Lions.
They are all getting aroundbecause of the D baby, and
(05:15):
that's right, kid Rock comingdown on your town, eminem,
making it happen, we're alldoing it.
We're going to kick the crapout of the lowly Chiefs.
And no, we are not.
They can cry.
And so what did I do?
I watched the super bowl bymyself.
No, I did in protest was nobodyhere.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
No, I should have had you over in my house.
You know what I had?
No, my buddy in texas sent me anine pound brisket, 48 jalapeno
cheddar smoked sausages.
I made tam tamales pintos.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
All right, so I didn't advertise it because I
did play golf in the morning.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
By yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
No, I played with people.
Okay, real people, real people,not just magic, but real people
.
Who watched me snap a realwedge over my real real?
Did you really?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
break a club I did.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I was so mad, alan, did you chunk or chili dip or
double I I uh, that one Ichunked.
Yep, I chunked it because Ikeep buying these stock clubs
off you should buy cheaper clubs, just so you, I can't.
Well, that's what I just did.
I bought a stock club which isan inch shorter.
Uh, you can't tell this, jacob,because we're sitting.
Alan is, uh, six, seven, six,eight, maybe seven, four, I
don't even know.
(06:23):
But uh, and I'm six, two, so a.
You can't tell this, jacob,because we're sitting.
Alan is 6'7", 6'8", maybe 7'4",I don't even know, and I'm 6'2"
, so a little bit of a tallerguy.
But my clubs are all an inchlonger, right?
Yeah, so I tried to get anotherwedge because I lost one Wink
wink.
It's in the pond.
Wink wink.
Hey, alan, we don't talk aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I'm Italian, jacob, so I don't know if you know
Italians.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
We don't talk about where they go, his club is
sleeping with the fishes.
That's probably true, but thisone has been a stock club and I
went for it and I had to leandown a little further.
I was actually starting to getmy groove back on and I just
chunked the crap out of him.
I'm like that's it.
I back on and I just chunkedthe crap out of him, like that's
(07:11):
it, I'm done.
I keep trying to work with you.
You're not working with me,we're done.
And the.
I have these three guys I playwith.
They're in my club, they knowme.
I played with two of thembefore and the third guy's like
whoa.
Did that just happen?
Oh, it just happened.
My friend, what hole were youon?
we were on 13 okay, so you youcould limp home it's, it's worse
when it happens on the thirdhole.
Yeah, hey, choke up on a nineiron jacob, that's right.
All right, so go hawks.
(07:32):
Great job.
So let's talk a little bit, canwe please?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
yeah, I want to know what he has to say about sales
all right, let's talk salesmindset.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So, jacob, let's talk about how do we get in the
right sales mindset.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So I mean really the first.
The first thing you have tobear in mind is if you are
coming from value, then youaren't bothering people, because
most people, particularlyentrepreneurs, if they are
selling, they think that theyare to be bothering people if
they're following up with themconsistently over the next
several months or years orwhatever the case might be.
So if you are focusing onproviding value and actually
serving your customer andproviding quality information to
them, then you aren't botheringthem.
(08:11):
That's usually the first issuethat people are really
struggling with.
The second thing that I alwaysrecommend to people is
implementing systems over thelong term, so you actually know
what will happen as soon as youmeet somebody at a networking
event and then the follow-upsfrom the first, you know, couple
of weeks to the next few months.
Then over the course of thenext several years, you actually
know exactly how you're goingto be communicating with them
(08:34):
and how that's going to belooking all right.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
So let's talk about this value selling.
We talk about this one a lot,but I think for a lot of people
that don't get it yet, yeah, soyou have a good example.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So the best examples I've been able to give folks
when you're talking about likethis, this selling from value
and providing follow up, isfirst need to come from
curiosity, meaning that you arereally trying to understand
where this person is in theirlife and what they might be
looking for, and be willing totell them like hey, I don't know
that my services or productsnecessarily make sense for you
(09:08):
right now, and here's why.
But usually in order to reallyclose a sale, we have to
identify four problems for anindividual prospect and we have
to generally four problems toreally identify the given
solutions to and to get thosefour problems.
Usually we have to ask at least12 questions in order to get
(09:30):
those identified.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Now, when it comes to so wait a minute, I want to
unpack that a little bit,because I think most people in
sales it's like you want to findtheir hot button or their
heartburn it kind of implies oneproblem.
Yeah, so you're saying fourproblems.
I mean, do you you have fourdifferent categories or are you
saying in any scenario there'sfour?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I say four problems like talk about like four
different pain points, like fourdifferent areas that they might
be hurting or struggling orjust finding difficulty in.
Because when you focus only onlike the heartburn, like you
were just talking about, thenusually as sales folks we can
get a little on theshort-sighted side, meaning that
I know that this person ishaving X, y and Z problem and I
(10:15):
have X, a, b and C solution, soI'm gonna go in and sell super
hard because I know that'll getme an immediate sale.
But you wanna make sure you'recontinuing to identify problems,
to continue to provide value tothat person immediately so you
get that immediate sale,hopefully then also be able to
provide value to them over thenext several months to years.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
All right, I'm still not done with this.
You keep going, dude, becauseI'm taking notes on this.
So Chris is going into acustomer's house, he's got a
professional handyman service.
He's all that customer's house.
He's got a professionalhandyman service.
He's all that, he knows he'sgood, and they identify a pain
(10:53):
point and he can sell the dealright on that one.
You're saying keep digging upmore pain.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
So keep just finding things to provide value to them.
So if you're like, if you'reusing, like your example, like
you're, a handyman service, andusually, at least in my
experience, people will call youbecause hey, you know my water
heater isn't working or you knowwhatever the case might be, and
when you're going into theirhome, have a conversation with
them and see where theirproblems are, and keep talking
to them and keep askingquestions and keep coming from
(11:18):
curiosity until you identifypotential other options or other
potential pain points.
Because, as we know, when itcomes to like handyman services,
usually things can break, butthings will generally last
longer if we maintain them well,so providing that maintenance
for them can be another optiontoo.
So I always say keep digginguntil you find multiple pain
(11:41):
points.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I love that one Keep digging You're going to make
them cry if you get four painpoints.
I say keep digging points.
I love that one, keep digging,right.
You're gonna make them cry ifyou get four pain points.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I I still keep digging.
I love that I am well, here'sthe thing.
So, hey, you brought the waterheater up thing, and so that
really not too many happen thatway.
But let's go.
Drywall, or this handle's notworking or this sink fixer's not
working or my door.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
My door keeps sticking.
How?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
about that one.
Let's skip that one.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
A little inside baseball there.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
That's not fun.
We're going to end this podcastin a minute.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
There's going to be a horse head in my bed.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know what I think Alan's going to find where that
club went.
All right For everybody.
Yes, I replaced Alan's frontdoor and, yes, that thing keeps
sticking.
It's not sticking right now.
It works like a champ.
All right, I had to come outthere and do some final touches
on it.
But, going back to it, so, mrand Mrs Jones, I came out today,
(12:41):
I'm looking at this.
Yeah, I got drywall.
I need to get fixed.
I have two sink fixtures I wantto change out in the hall bath
and my kids' bathroom upstairs,and so you know the pain point.
But you don't.
And so you ask well, why are wedoing this?
Well, you know we want tochange things.
Okay, here's the next questionwhy now?
Right, so why is this importantto you now?
(13:04):
So back to Alan.
Why is it so important to youto make sure that front door
opens?
Well, I found out, actuallywith Alan, but he doesn't know,
as I did dig, because thecleaner comes in through the
front door and she likes to puther big old freaking shoulder
into the front door.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
She's a tiny littleian woman and she has to
hit it like a linebacker to openthe six foot four, 350.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Samoan is a little.
I don't know who is, but she'strying to break my front door
and I'm kidding, but uh.
So I knew that she couldn't getin the front door and that's a
problem, because she's afraid totell alan that there's a
problem.
And when she's afraid to tellalan there's a problem, then the
wife has to get involved.
And if the wife has to getinvolved, and if the wife has to
get involved, who does not likeconflict and does not like to
(13:49):
talk to anybody has to say I'mso sorry that I had to let you
in.
Lupita or whatever her name is.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Let's just call her Lupita.
Judy would just use the backdoor for the rest of her life
rather than have a conversationwith you.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
So we did why?
And then why?
Now, right, that's number two.
So I agree with Jacob You'vegot to keep digging, Ask those
questions you don't know, right?
I don't know what I don't know,but what I found out from Alan
when I was there and I was notperturbed.
I made jokes about this.
Is he listening?
I hear wait, Hank, was he goingto turn?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
He's an asshole.
This is live on the air no, butuh, he was right.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Well, here's what I heard my cleaning lady can't
come through the front door,therefore judy feels like she
has to sit there and wait forher to let her in.
So there is no conflict.
And I heard all of that, evenwith you saying, well, it might
clean it.
Because I was like man, howoften do you use your front door
, dude?
And I was like, uh-huh, I gotit, I'm actually trying.
You use your front door, dude?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
And I was like uh-huh , I got it.
I'm actually trying to use myfront door a lot.
I mean, here in the South itseems like everybody goes to
their garage.
Yeah, of course we do, yeah,but it seems like in the South
also, your garage doors break alot and they trap you in.
So I'm like trying, I'veactually got a schedule to
(15:04):
grease my rails once a quarter,yeah and hey, let's use the
front door, like it's supposedto, more often.
And then the cool little doorthat you put into the little
private barbecue deck, we usethat one too.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
So let me tell a little story about uh how I grew
up.
So my dad, I uh, opened thedoor and I closed it.
And I opened the door at thecar door and closed it again.
And he turns around and he justscreams at me.
The door has so many open andcloses.
You decide if you're going outor if you're staying in.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Sam is the man.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, that's right, he's not listening to this
podcast, even though he's beenon it.
But, yes, he's formed me.
So, jacob, back to sales,finding those problem points,
let's talk a little bit moreabout that.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You hear those pain points.
How do you react as a sales guy?
How do you keep going?
You want to just startcataloging these things in your
head Again, going to our exampleof the handyman that comes over
to fix the door that's gettingstuck as you're chatting with
somebody and you're discoveringthese other issues and other
things.
Just start cataloging thesethings in your head.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Chris is just giving me the double birds while we
keep talking about that doorthat sticks.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yep, that's true, but at least in my mind, if you
find, let's say, three or fourmore immediate projects in
somebody's home as you'retalking to them, but they just
haven't reached out to you orsomebody else to fix them yet, I
mean you could offer them somesort of package deal, Say, hey,
you had me come over to fix thisproblem, but if we do all this
together I can give you a betterrate.
But then you can also providejust again, providing value to
(16:37):
them, not necessarily as moneyin your pocket, but let's say
you're talking to them, Maybethey're thinking about, you know
, renovating their house oradding an addition or something
like that.
Maybe that's not the work thatyou do, but you know the people
in the business, right.
So again, you're providingvalue.
To say, hey, you know, I knowthat you're looking into, um,
you know expanding your home andI know some really, really
(16:57):
great folks that can get allthat stuff done for you you're
not saying we need to find fourpain points on that one item.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
You're saying just keep talking to them and you're
going to find four pain pointsthat might lead to more business
.
Exactly, is that what I'mhearing?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, because we're talking about the immediate
issue and then the long term,right.
So again, you might have comeover to their home just to fix
that one problem.
But as you're talking to them,they say, hey, in six months I'm
thinking about expanding myhome or renovating, and maybe
that's work that you do.
So you, you log that away inyour head or in your CRM, as
everybody should have, and then,in you know, three, four, five,
whatever months, you reach outto them again and say you know,
(17:39):
hey, john, it was great to chatwith you.
How's you know the water heaterdoing?
I know last time we talked youwere talking about looking into
an expansion in your home.
Are you ready to have thatconversation?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Love that point.
You actually hit on one that'sa big one.
So you're a sales guy, you'rein the house and you're talking
and they say, well, here's myimmediate need, and of course
you solve that immediate needand you don't try to oversell
because you're trying to getthat one sale.
You know, I know guys espousedlike hey, go in there and try to
give them as much as you can.
(18:10):
I'm like, yeah, I think you gotto give them the ticket and the
immediate need.
But you just hit a, serve thatimmediate need, solve it and
then turn back around and say,hey, while I was there you said
X, y, z.
So how do you put that intoyour sales methodology and your
sales follow-up?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
So when it comes to like, you have to have the
systems in place, and I mean,fortunately, a lot of
entrepreneurs that I have workedwith or I have talked to they
use, like, excel spreadsheets,which that's okay, very, very,
very early on, and I say onlyokay, but really at some point
you have to establish, you haveto start building out a CRM of
(18:47):
some sort.
When I say CRM a clientresource manager, customer
relationship manager, whateveryou want to call it and there's
a there's a million of them outthere anymore.
And what I always recommend tofolks is you know, take whatever
your industry is let's say it'syou know home maintenance stuff
again and just do homemaintenance CRM and see what
comes up.
And usually there's a lot ofvery industry specific ones out
(19:07):
there anymore.
But what that will againgenerally allow you to do is
when you meet somebody and yougo over to their house, you meet
them one time to fix whateverit is that their house.
Then you can jot a note toyourself.
So you know, hey, when I wastalking to John, we fixed this
thing and he said he was talkingabout fixing something else or
doing an expansion on his homein six months.
Then you go into your CRM, youput those notes in there and
(19:30):
then you leave yourself a noteto reach out to them again.
But you have to be consistent.
You can't just say, hey, I wentover to John's house, I fixed
his sink for him and he wastalking about expanding his home
, and then I'm going to reachout to him again in five months
because by then it's gone cold.
So what you want to do is youwant to have consistent
follow-up and consistent contactwith him, not to say like you
know, hey, you know we're, youknow are you ready to do your
(19:52):
thing yet, but just providingvalue and saying, no, hey,
here's the.
I know I've done a lot of myhome expansion, home renovations
, and here's you know kind of mythree or four tips that people
really easily overlook and Iwant to make sure to send that
over to you.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It was a good email and just saying it For our
listeners who aren't using a CRM.
I mean, the key to me is thefact that you can idiot proof
the triggers.
So in this case the example yougave in six months they need to
do this X, y, z.
You can put in a reminder tofollow up with them in six
months, but, to your point, whatyou also need to set up is some
(20:26):
sort of a campaign to stay intouch with them during those six
months.
Chris, you've got that going onright, you just switched.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
CRMs.
We did just switch CRMs, and Iwill tell you that one of the
things that we're lacking inthis is the drip campaign that
we're talking about, and that isthe because.
Again, 42% of our business lastyear, 42% of our business was
for repeat customers, and so inthe handyman world that's the
benefit, and in any world it is.
But you know again, in otherareas that I know the best,
(20:53):
which is home services.
If I replace your airconditioner, I'm probably going
to service it for the next 15.
But I'm not going to replace itfor another 15.
If I painted your house, I'mlucky if I come back in three,
five or seven, and so I knowthat we have a lot more repeat.
But back to that drip campaignstaying present, staying top of
mind, and one of the things uh,jacob, you you kind of alluded
(21:17):
to it, but I'll hit this one foryou uh, for us, my urgency is
to get your money their urgency,let's just call it like it is
Did he didn't say that?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
No, he really didn't.
He was talking about value, ohvalue.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, I just want your money, chris Lalamia.
Oh, did I paraphrase wrong,jacob?
I apologize.
We'll take that out of context,that's all right, I like money
too.
As John Ray told me edit, takethat out.
Oh, it's not going to happen,don't worry, we don't do that
here, so it's go back in.
So back to this again.
I just want your money, I justwant your, but our, our deal is
(21:55):
we want to, but it's not apriority for these folks and you
got to stay in front of them tomake this a priority and I like
how you said that, because youmake that at least, at least
available to them.
It's an option.
You're not pressuring them, you.
You just tell them hey,remember when we talked before,
it was this and are you stillready for that?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, I was going to say too, I mean, your drip
campaign doesn't have to be allabout that one thing, like, for
example, when I was in realestate.
One of my favorite kind offollows is, every fall, once it
starts getting colder, we wouldsend out an email to everybody
we'd worked with and say, hey,make sure to disconnect your
hoses in your yard and take allthe water out of them.
(22:35):
You want to make sure they'renot freezing on you, and that's
a value add.
That's not really selling themon anything.
I mean there's tons of stuffout there.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You're just staying in front of them.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
You're staying in front of them and you're
providing value, which I thinkour newsletter did.
You see my last newsletter.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I did.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Did you watch my video?
Oh my God, I don't think I didEdit Alan's not here any longer
Alan is with my wedge.
What?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
All right, I normally do, I think this time I just
wanted to scroll down and seehow long it was.
It was a rather voluminousemail.
It was 115 on the video.
No I didn't watch the video.
I just wanted to see how longthe actual text was.
Oh, it just kind of kept goingBecause it meets for everybody.
We're at a 47% open.
So are you more of the shotgunapproach rather than the sniper?
(23:23):
What do you say about that insales?
Just kind of just blasteverything, throw spaghetti on
the wall and see if anythingsticks.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I've got more bourbon Jacob is that a good newsletter
strategy.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So I mean you want to .
I mean you want to be targetedand you want to at least in my
opinion, when you're using yourCRM you can be very targeted in
your in your tagging.
So I mean if you met somebody ata networking event and you talk
to them about you know whateverhandyman work stuff, then make
a note of that and say, hey,they were talking about sync
stuff and you can send them aspecific, you know, sync related
(23:55):
value driven follow upinformation.
So I'm a big believer in,generally speaking, you can kind
of just do kind of mass emails,but you also want to be as
specific as you can.
So like, let's say, you aredoing some video work or you're
writing a blog post or whateverabout very specific thing, very
specific issue that people arehaving generally, you can go
(24:16):
back into your notes and say, oh, these you know five or 10
people when we talked last theywere struggling with that.
So I'm going to send them aspecific email just for them and
say you know, hey, I know lasttime we talked we were.
You know you know.
Hey, I know last time we talkedwe were.
You know you were strugglingwith this.
I just wrote this great articleabout it.
I'd love for you to check itout.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Hopefully it helps so you can be very, very targeted
and general at the same time.
All right, go ahead, I'm goingto.
I'm going to completely switchtopics.
So I, if you want to finishthis thread, let's go.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I've got a sales question Go.
You talk about fearless sales,and I love that phrase because I
think the best salespeoplereally act like they could care
less if the customer buys or not.
How do you have that mindsetwhen you have to go back to
(25:00):
Chris's office and he's going topop your tires and slit your
throat if you don't actually hita certain closing percentage?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
There know there's that hypothetically,
hypothetically, a Chris, let'ssay his name is Chris.
It's a hypothetical and a Chrisat the same time.
So and that might have happened.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
So I mean it's a couple of things really.
I mean this is like a more of ageneral kind of mindset piece
is like where are you reallycoming from?
And when I say that usuallypeople are either coming from
scarcity or they're coming fromabundance.
And when I say that, that meansthat you are either fear-driven
and, like you're, you'reworried about your boss, you
know chewing you out, or you'reworried about not making your
(25:42):
next sale because you know youneed to pay rent or whatever.
But and those things can bevery well be true but when you
come from abundance and youchoose, you have to choose to
come from abundance, meaningthat, yes, I want to make this
sale, I want to please my boss,but if it doesn't happen, I can
only control what I can control.
And if it, if it doesn't happen, then I'm going to go out.
(26:02):
And I'm going to go outtomorrow.
I'm going to do it again andagain and again until, like you
know, close the deals greatquestion, great answer.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I'm gonna give you one, thank you.
It's been a while since I'vegotten one.
You got one, one, one, okay,and so I'm still at zero.
So I love, jacob.
You hit on exactly what happensif you're going out there
selling scared, if you're goingout there selling like if I
don't make this sale, my kidswon't eat.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
They smell it, they feel it your kids are going to
be skinny you're.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
You got skinny kids, and what do you want?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
but how do you get that mindset of abundance when
you know your kids are going tobe skinny?
No, it's scary kids.
I know I want fat kids, but mykids are skinny and how do I
keep them from?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
so that's our uh our line that we've we've heard
before is but how do you do itright?
You got to ship that mindset toabundance because you know what
you may not be the right fitfor me as a customer for my
services, because I am so good,so good that you have to have me
so good, right?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
so, jacob, tell me how I'm so good so I mean
honestly, I think you hit thenail on the head.
A lot of sales people like theycome from scarcity and they're,
I mean, terrified they have tomake their numbers or whatever
the case might be.
What I always recommend tofolks is practice, being
comfortable, gettinguncomfortable, and what I mean
by that is you don't have to,like you know, go out and like,
let's say, you've never soldbefore.
(27:19):
You don't have to go outtomorrow and do you know a
hundred cold calls when you'venever done it before.
You're, you know, freakingterrified about it.
But what if you go out tomorrowand your whole goal is to have
one great conversation whileyou're cold calling and just
going through your call cyclelike that and just slowly,
incrementally getting used tobeing uncomfortable, and
(27:39):
eventually your comfort zonewill shift and you'll become
again more comfortable beinguncomfortable.
Like I've said a hundred timesalready, what I always recommend
to folks, too, is find whatyou're good at and stick to it.
So a lot of folks inparticularly in the sales world,
they are either like they'rereally good at follow-up, or
(28:02):
they're really good at closing,or they're really good at cold
calling, or whatever the casemight be.
Find that thing that you arereally really great at and stick
to it and find those small wins, and the small wins will help
drive the things you'reuncomfortable doing man, that's
a great point, because we justtalked about this.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
My own sales organization is that.
You know, momentum buildsmomentum, right?
Yep and uh, that's yogi birramomentum what a lot builds
momentum, this podcast,especially in this moment.
So, but we talk about findthose small wins and uh,
actually I'm going to bring thatback to my guys is that, hey,
what do you think you're thebest at?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
then go, let's go win at that you're right, because
when you're hot and you're on ayou're on a hot closing streak,
it just is so easy to get thenext one and you're not worried
about getting the next onebecause you just crushed the
last four or five.
How do you get that samemindset when you're 0 for 5 on
your last appointments?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's the harder part.
That's when grit shows up, andI mean I think maybe sales
arguably may be among the toptwo or three industries probably
where you have to have somelevel of grit.
You just have to be willing tosuck it up and continue.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
You just have to have that in you hey, so as a lions
fan, cheese fan, by the waycoming down lions.
Uh, super bowl champs 2026 justabout to happen.
Oh, go ahead, you call it, Ijust called it.
Um, our word of the year isgrit and so, but let's go back
to sales.
What is grit in sales?
I mean, define that for us.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So I think grit well, my definition of grit, I think,
is true in sales, but also trueacross industries and the way I
define grit is just thewillingness to continue, meaning
that sure you're experiencingself-doubt, maybe you just
started a business and you'relike man, I cannot find clients.
Things are sucking Like.
This is not great.
You continue anyway and in myexperience, if you're just
willing to continue while havinga learning mindset, then I
(29:56):
really don't think you can loseas long as you continue and you
continue to learn.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
So you got to have a short memory, right.
I mean, I think that's the.
Uh, I've taken a couple ofthings away'm going to keep
typing this down because I wantto share it with my guys,
because I think right now what'shappened to us in home services
is that in the winter, we'retaping this one now in February
of 2025.
So the winter months are alwaysslower for us in Atlanta,
(30:21):
because in December, if you'reserious about something, you get
it done.
In January, you're paying offcredit card debts In February,
it's still kind of cold here andyou only live in three rooms.
I don't care where you live inthe entire US, from the north to
the south, you only still livein three rooms.
If you have four seasons comingaround and so people ask me in
Michigan because I'm from thereoriginally, oh man, you must be
(30:42):
killing it 12 months a year.
I'm like, yeah, dude.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
I'm always killing it .
Speaker 3 (30:46):
But no, what happens is we get really slow and it's
hard to sell.
So back to the selling.
Thing is that I keep yelling atthese guys going hey man, you
got to convert every time you'rethere.
I'm going to use this one.
Let's find the one thing you'rereally good at.
Maybe it's the sales process,Maybe it's being there, being in
(31:11):
front of the customer then sellbetter.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Maybe it's your follow-up, maybe it's your
preparation, maybe it's thedetail you provide to them, I
don't know.
I love that idea.
Yeah, well, I can also say,when it comes to things are
struggling, you're just notgetting the closings that you
want.
Control what you can control,which is usually going to be the
amount of calls or meetingsthat you're setting, and then
make sure that you arecelebrating whatever small wins
might be coming up along the way.
And that can be like hey, we'renot getting the closings, but
hey, I made 100 cold calls today.
(31:33):
I set five more meetings.
That's a win in my book.
You close no business, sure,but I still consider that a win.
And you need to establishyourself as somebody who
celebrates those kinds of wins.
And it doesn't have to be hey,I'm going to take two weeks off
and go on a vacation, but itcould be hey, it's a beautiful
day outside, I'm going to go ona five minute walk, or I'm going
to grab a you know my favoritecoffee, or you know whatever the
(31:54):
case might be.
Just some small things thatwill reinforce that you are
doing the things you need to bedoing.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Not for nothing, alan , I forgot to tell you this part
, but yeah, next hole birdie.
Oh, you showed that club.
Huh, that validated my angerand I looked at the three guys.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
The rest of the clubs are just quaking in the back.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I looked at the other three guys.
I said never underestimateangry golf forever.
When people say find your zenin golf, I said angry golf
always works All right.
But no, that was a great, thatwas so fun.
That was so fun, that was sofun.
But did I celebrate that?
Win Jacob, absolutely 1,000%.
No, I was still mad because Istay angry.
(32:39):
So let's talk about that.
You know it's hard to get outof that doldrums, right, you've
had an 0 for a streak and it'shard.
And back to that winter.
It's a cold winter, you're notseeing the sales.
Your boss is on you like blahblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
How do you flip your mindsetbefore you go into that sales
call?
Tell us how you get your headright first.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
So my mindset always starts, it starts right first
thing in the morning withgratitude.
I'm a big believer that youknow.
If people always say likeattitude of gratitude, I think
it's the opposite.
I think if we, if we practiceintentional gratitude, then that
will lead to a better attitude.
So for me personally, I have alist of I don't know several
hundred different things nowwhere every day I try to think
(33:21):
of a new reason that I'mgrateful.
And in my life, particularly inthe last couple of years when I
been struggling or you're overor whatever, I will find reasons
to be grateful for the suckLike, find reasons to be
grateful for the things that arehurting or struggling or
because all of that is teachingyou at the end of the day.
And then, when it comes toflipping the switch, like right
(33:42):
before the sales meeting, I'm abig believer in visualization,
and that doesn't have to be,again, anything crazy, but it
could just be.
You know, you showed up to thatperson's house or whatever it
is, and take two minutes beforeyou walk into their house and
just visualize you going inthere and crushing it and it's
just a crazy great meeting.
You close a bunch of business,you have a great potential
(34:03):
business coming up, and thatwill I mean that ultimately lead
to success too, because you'recoming in, ready to go, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Be grateful for the suck Chris.
You know what Podcast titleright there.
Do you actually keep a list ofthings you're grateful for?
It sounds like you do.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yeah, well, for my last proper job W2 job it was a
really, really bad fit job and Ihated it and I was in that job
for well over a year and for amajority of it I hated all like
every single day, but everysingle day I would try to wake
up and think of a new reason Iwas grateful for that crappy job
.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
So, as I left my own business, or left the corporate
world to start my own business,nobody ever said God, I wish I
could stay here and get my W-2and get my paycheck every other
Friday.
God, I wish I could stay hereand get my benefits paid2 and
get my paycheck every otherFriday.
God, I wish I could stay hereand get my benefits paid for.
God, I wish I could get hereand get 3% on my match.
(35:01):
They all went.
Oh, chris, I wish I was youstarting my own business.
You're like, you know,motherfucker.
You know you're not, BecauseI'm telling you what people ask
me after four years.
You know I first started thebusiness.
What do you miss?
I said I missed that paycheck,bro.
I missed that paycheck, I saidbecause I was going to break
even in 18 months.
It only took me 36.
Yay, we, oh my god.
(35:22):
Way to go, chris.
Oh, you're amazing.
And it didn't happen.
So you're right.
You gotta, you gotta, you gottabe grateful for the suck.
Um, and I'm not, by the way, Iget angry at it.
Uh, that's the way I solvethings and that's what my
therapist has told me, I can dothat.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Grateful is not snapping your club over your
knee.
That's not so, jacob.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
I'm sorry, but if we play golf, just know that I'm
grateful that you're looking atme snapping my angry club over
my angry it doesn't know if weever do play golf.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I'm I'm terrible and I think the only round of 18 I
ever shot I was like 50 over, soI think you're probably okay
you know what?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
and here's the thing if I, if everyone else is
playing really bad around me oreverybody else is playing really
good, I just don't say it withme, care you don't care, because
I'm all about what I'm doing.
100 consumed with yourself I am,and I can't get out of my own
way, jacob, because my mindsetblows.
So let's get back to mindset.
So my guys go into sales callsand we talk about this.
(36:20):
I keep telling them hey guys,when you get outside of that car
, do whatever you got to do, dothe power pose, get your hands
in the air, but you got to flushthe trash.
The most important person inthat world is that sales call
that person you're talking toTalk about how you embrace that
moment and what should we bedoing?
Not to overdo it, but do it.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
So I mean, like the visualization piece and like the
power posing, I mean that canbe a ton of fun just to get you
in that right.
You know headspace.
Personally, I'm a big believerin understanding your why.
Because I mean if you don'tunderstand, like, why you're
doing what you're doing, then itdoesn't really matter anyway.
And just saying like, hey, Iwant to get a big commission is
not not nearly deep enough.
That's what I call a soft why.
We need to understand like, hey, maybe you do get a big
(37:04):
commission, but what does thatbig commission do for?
For you, for your family, foryour life?
All that kind of good stuff.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I love that idea but Alan's picking on this a little
bit.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I'm not picking on us , I'm picking on you.
Your whole existence is a soft.
Why?
According to Jacob, from what Ijust heard, no, but I know, but
I'm trying to.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Actually, what I was writing down was how do I take
my soft why?
And make theirs the hard why?
How do you make me more money,mfers, so I can go back to Vegas
on my private jet?
Hey, let I go back to vegas onmy private jet.
Hey, let's get everybody notkidding.
Hey, that's why you're podcast,because that's how we got here.
Um, but yeah, you're right.
I mean, I think you're rightwhen you walk in and, uh allen's
(37:44):
, we're making jokes about this.
But when I get in there, themost important person in the
world not my kids, not my wife,not my parents it is that
customer that I'm sitting eye toeye with and making that happen
.
And if you sit there and buyinto that and then sell from the
abundance mindset, tell me youcan't win.
You have to win.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Well and like and finding the things like I always
I call it um, like my, myretreat point.
So like, let's say, you go intosomebody's house, you're trying
to close business and you'rejust not getting anywhere, like,
how do you still make this awin?
And I think the ultimate, likethe very last resort, is
allowing them to um them,allowing you to contact them
again and following up with them, because I mean, at least in my
(38:25):
mind I'm, I'm kind of asalesperson that I will follow
up with you until either I dieor you die, and that's happened
before.
So I mean just finding those butfinding that, that those small
wins, even if you aren't closingthe business right, then, and
there are, I mean, critical overthe longterm.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, I told my guys drive for the no and uh one of
my new sales guys a couple ofyears ago, said so, you want
everybody to say no.
I said no, you want to drivethem to the point where they
just say no because you justfound out they're not ready.
Why now?
Why not now, right, and theyjust told you no, yeah, um, yeah
(39:03):
.
So I think that's powerful.
You know, what's funny is uh,we've worked with some elderly
people, we do a lot of aging andplace work and uh, we joke and
it's not funny but it's morbid,but it's gotta be funny because
I'm getting older and mymorbidity is getting closer is
uh, is I hurry up and get thatjob done before they die?
Yep, hurry up and get that, yes, before they die.
(39:24):
I love that.
So I.
So what are some routines orsome keywords you use to get
yourself ready to go?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Um, well, I mean, like I said, the visualization,
like I said before, and reallyunderstanding where your mindset
is currently.
Like if you're like say like oh, for you know 20 or whatever,
and you're struggling right now,like having like really playing
like that, like the mentalJenga, like that mental jujitsu,
and like saying like, no, I amgoing to get something done
because I'm doing the activityto get those things right.
I to get something done becauseI'm I'm doing the activity to
(39:56):
get those things right.
Um, I'm a big believer in inaffirmations too.
So, like for for me, forexample, on my bathroom year,
every morning, I read through myaffirmations that can be just
like hey, I'm, this is going tobe a great day.
Um, please let me, you know,bless those around me and to be
blessed as well.
And like finding like that kindof positivity will, I mean,
galvanize you, particularly withthe gratitude piece too alan,
do you do that in the pot?
Speaker 3 (40:17):
number morning valid, because alan's a uh, I mean
alan's a christ believer, he's afollower, he's a big guy.
I mean, all right, so am I.
But um, we talk about, is thatwhat you do in the pot every
morning?
I don't want to tell you what Ido there, I don't want to hear
about that, but but here's thepoint.
The point is, when you wake upevery morning, you've got to
reset your mindset, right?
Yep, you've got to get yourselfready.
(40:38):
I've actually just offeredmyself up to go talk to a Girl
Scout troop.
Alan, you're going to love this.
You offered, or they asked.
No, I offered.
Okay, because the Girl Scouts.
So you know, president Nary, Ihad the Girl Scouts come out and
sell Girl Scout cookies at ourlocal Nary event.
We had 175 people there, it wasan amazing event.
(40:59):
And they came in and I toldthem.
I came out to them and I saidgirls, what are we selling?
They said cookies.
I said okay, good, mental note,jacob.
What are they selling?
They said cookies Value Talk.
Let's talk for a minute.
They cookies value talk, let'stalk for a minute.
They said cookies, what can wefix them with?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
so tell me what I should teach the girl scout
about what they're they'rethey're actually selling I mean,
I guess I haven't sold cookiesbefore, but I mean finding,
jacob, you've never eaten girlscout cookies I've had your,
I've eaten them.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I haven't sold them, dude.
I have not only eaten them, Ihave hoovered them.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
You don't have to sell Girl Scout cookies.
I mean, I seriously, they justfly out of their little hands
into my truck you open, I openone.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
I'm like I'm just going to have one.
No, this one Samoa.
And the next thing I know, thewhole box is gone.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, Samoa is the best.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
And I just go to my next cookies as fast as I can.
That one's a fact.
Oh my God, those Girl Scoutcookies go down.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I'm like what are they selling though?
Honestly, I mean, because Imean I assume most of these, you
know, these girls are like theyprobably are here in Iowa where
they're setting up shops, youknow, like on a street corner or
whatever they're doing at aWalmart or something, and as
people come in and out of astore, you say, hey, you want to
buy some cookies.
Honestly, if it were me, Iwould say they are selling
experience, as weird as thatmight sound.
Because, like, really, whatthey want, like when, at least
(42:22):
when I'm buying cookies, likeyou want to, like I feel like
people just don't have thecharisma to like to sell like
that.
But you gotta be really, reallybig, of a big personality, you
know, say, hey, sir, you want tobuy some cookies, don't you?
Like?
What are you doing?
Come over here, you want to buycookies.
What are you doing?
Like being like really big,like that and like having a lot
of fun with your, your customersand telling people like, yeah,
I bought cookies, but man, likethese little girls were having
(42:44):
such a great time and like itwas so much fun to listen to
them talk and talk aboutwhatever they were, you know,
using the money for, like I feellike that would probably be
like really what they're sellingso the curmudgeon alan, who's
trying to watch this figure,does not like that because he
does not like cute little girlswho are really trying to just
help themselves get better andbecome young, independent women.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
You are putting down the young independent woman.
No, I just don't know.
I don't know how.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah I don't know how much you have to put into the
Girl Scout cookie sales, becausethey're so god dang good.
They are that good, you knowthey're good, you know you want
them.
Open your freaking purse upsidedown and just give me all your
money.
That should appeal to you,chris right?
I just want your money.
I just want your money.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
I just want your money.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
And in exchange you get these really yummy things
that are going to probably makeyou fat and you know, fight with
self-loathing and guilt andstuff, as you shove them all
into your face.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
And I have body dysmorphia all day long.
So I do so, jacob.
This has been awesome, man.
I love how you talked aboutsales mindset, but I'm going to
finish with what I learned fromwhat he just said is that to
sell Girl Scout cookies, forwhat I want is the most money I
can possibly get Girl Scoutcookies for what I want is the
most money I can possibly get,because if my daughter sells the
most Girl Scout cookies which,by the way, my daughter will not
(44:00):
be selling Girl Scout cookies,she's now an adult that you got
to be focused on the experienceand you got to make it happen
and you got to always be sellingyourself.
I don't care what you're doingevery single day.
You got to change your mindset.
You can't have a bad day.
You can have.
Change your mindset.
You can't have a bad day.
You can have a bad moment, youcan't have a bad day.
That's impossible.
You got to stop that.
Actually, that's the one thingthat I push in my kids.
(44:22):
You did not have a bad day.
You had a bad moment.
You let the bad day happen, butyou had a bad moment.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
You could have flipped the script Well, and
usually to go off of that for aminute like the like.
You had a bad moment and yourreaction to it was to ruin the
rest of your day.
You can't control like whathappened.
You can only control yourreaction.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
A hundred percent.
Love that, love it.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I'm saying You're the guy who snapped your nine iron
over your knee.
I had a bad moment, and what'dI do after that?
You snapped your club and theynever use it again it again.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
And what did I do after that?
You spited it by getting abirdie on the next hole.
That's right, and I loved everyminute of that and I and I'll
tell you what don't everunderestimate me, and spite,
because that is definitelymotivating.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
That could be your next book, spite sales all right
, I'll let you know when thatcomes out.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Jacob, that's awesome dude.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
You've been dropping the drums.
You've been making it happen.
Let's make it all happen.
Stale's mindset starts with you.
You've got to set it every day.
Jacob how can everybody findyou?
Speaker 2 (45:21):
So easiest is going to be through my website,
jacobhickscoachcom, so feel freeto drop me a note.
I love to hear from folks.
I'm on social media I meanFacebook, LinkedIn, TikTok,
Instagram, of course and thenjust recently launched my own
podcast, Purpose Driven Progress.
You can find that on Apple andSpotify, of course.
We've got a lot of good nuggetsin there for you.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Purpose Driven Podcast Jacob Hicks, that's
Jacob with a C Hicks H-I-C-K-S.
We'll put it all in the notes.
Go find it out, man.
Follow this kid, go check himout.
I'll tell you what.
All the feedback I'm gettingfrom uh, the folks I've been
hearing from who listen to ourpodcast, they listen, they want
to check out and they come checkyou out and see if it's going
to be a worthwhile.
(46:02):
So go ahead, hit him up, man.
He says, hey, come talk to me,let's go do it.
Man, go out there and talk tohim, find out what you can find
out.
Let's do it.
Everybody else, if you're notgoing to hit jac up, are you
really ready to change yourmindset?
Alan, I don't think so.
Let's snap that freaking wedge.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Let's make it happen, get yourself up that
mountaintop.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
We're going to go make money.
Cheers everybody.
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