June 10, 2025 • 49 mins
Every job is a sales job, and every interaction is a sales interaction. Learning to understand needs, help people, find solutions collaboratively, and remove the "ick factor" from the sales process transforms how we approach all our business relationships.
• Sales begins with selling yourself authentically and consistently
• Your body language constitutes 80% of communication, even in virtual settings
• The true bottlenecks often occur after the sale—in service, follow-up, and billing
• Many companies create "transactionships" instead of relationships with customers
• Customers need to feel seen, felt, and heard throughout their experience
• Getting employees involved in sales requires showing how it benefits them personally
• Effective retention begins at the first interaction, not after the transaction
• Ask for referrals, reviews, and repeat business instead of hoping they'll happen
Check out Dr. Cindy McGovern's books "Every Job is a Sales Job" and "Sell Yourself" at drcindy@drcindy.com or follow her at 1ST Lady of Sales on all platforms.
#ORANGELEAFACADEMY#SMALLBUSINESSSAFARI#BOURBON#SELLING
https://drcindy.com/orange-leaf-academy/
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And when I realized what it really is it's about
understanding needs, helpingpeople, figuring out solutions
together, collaboration I waslike, oh dang, I've been doing
this my whole life.
I just didn't call it sales,but we do have that ick factor
about it.
We all think of sort of thepushy, manipulative, cheesy
sales guy that's such a smallminute portion of salespeople,
(00:23):
and even those guys don't wantto be that.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
So let's change the script on sale.
Yeah, yeah, but polyester'sgoing out.
Polyester sands of bells aregoing out.
Brother, I'm telling you thatthe tie that's a little too
short.
The sands of bells coming over.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The big belly gonna sell me a car gone yeah what can
I do to put you in this cartoday, today, today.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Tommy.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Two Thumbs, that's what I call him.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
All right, what is Tommy?
Two Thumbs.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
He's literally the avatar that I think people have
of a cheesy sales guy or gal.
Right, it's like, hey, what'sit going to take, like you said
and I even teach this when I'mdoing seminars and workshops
with clients and I have it onthe board and it's a guy
sunglasses inside lots of goldchains, pinky rings, shirt on
button to the belly button.
You know the whole thing lotsof cologne slacks, absolutely,
(01:13):
absolutely canoe.
Oh, there's gotta be somethingfrom a drugstore, for sure right
top shelf drugstore top shelfdrugstore, right Top shelf
drugstore, all right so.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Tommy, two thumbs.
Welcome to the Small BusinessSafari where I help guide you to
avoid those traps, pitfalls anddangers that lurk when
navigating the wild world ofsmall business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
(01:47):
and professional goals.
So strap in adventure team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
Alan, you man, my God, you area chit chat.
You just can't shut me up today.
Oh, my god, we're gonna have.
(02:08):
You know what?
I got the mute button ready togo right now and I got the dump
button for sure, because I'm notsure what's going to come out
of this episode.
But you and your, your saucymouth, I don't know I just sorry
, sorry, I apologize in advance.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
They call it working blue.
That's what they call it.
Is that why we're explicit?
All me, all these years it'sbeen you all these fucking years
.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I can't believe this is going on.
This is crazy.
Well, guys, great episode ontap.
Today we are going to talkabout what is the linchpin, what
is the secret, what is thething that actually makes your
business roll?
Is it being good at your books?
Absolutely.
Is it being good at being aprocess documenter, of course.
Is it good at making sure thatpeople pay you?
(02:49):
Well, let me tell you aboutthat, ladies and gentlemen.
Yes, but what makes it work?
Alan go, you got to drive sales, you got to have sales, and you
know what.
We're not just going to gograde school sales shit here
today, boys.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
No girls.
How about grade school?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
sales shit here today .
Boys, no girls.
How about high school sales?
No, I can, I say no, we have ajunior.
Junior college sales nope, noteven there.
We're going higher.
Keep going, alan, keep going.
Undergrad sales oh my god, no,we have graduated from there,
we're off the bachelor's masters, masters of sales, no no, no,
my god.
We're going to the pop, we'regoing to the pinnacle.
Where are we going, alan?
The doctor, we have the doctor,dr cindy begovern in the house.
First lady of sales doc, thanksfor coming in and let's go.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Thanks, for having me guys.
It's a pleasure to be here, andI just already know this is
going to be a hoot, so let's dothis let's do this, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
So all right, doc, we need a lot of help in sales.
We all do.
We all wish we were better atit.
We all think sometimes we thinkwe're really good at it until
you get hit in the nose and, asthey say, that's mike tyson.
Everybody has a plan to get inthe nose.
So you have made your life'smission of getting into sales
and helping people with it.
So what's the secret?
(03:57):
Give us just I'm sure it's justone line, and we're going to
close up this episode.
Call it good, doc is fiveminutes.
We're done right now all it is.
Is that all it takes, doc?
What do?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
we do.
I mean, if you want a one-liner, it's really the fact that
every job is a sales job andevery interaction is a sales
interaction and you have totreat every single one as such
gold nugget right off the rip.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I you know, and I've said something similar and I'm
not nearly as educated as ourguests, but, like I always, even
my reverend father was asalesman.
Your dentist is a salesperson,always be selling Always.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
You know what I told young people the same thing when
we did the summer internshipprogram is that when you're in
college you're still sellingyourself.
You better be thinking aboutyourself a hundred percent right
.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And that mindset is so important because and I think
you use the word ick and takingthe ick- out of sales because
there's so many people that justthink it's this vile practice
that only snakes use, and it'snot true.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
That's so true and I used to think that, truth be
told, I never wanted to be insales.
And I got put into a sales roleand when I realized what it
really is it's aboutunderstanding needs, helping
people, figuring out solutionstogether, collaboration I was
like, oh dang, I've been doingthis my whole life.
I just didn't call it sales.
But we do have that ick factorabout it.
(05:17):
We all think of sort of thepushy, manipulative, cheesy
sales guy.
That's such a small, smallminute portion of sales people,
and even those guys don't wantto be that.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So let's change the script on sales.
Yeah, polyester sands bells aregoing out, brother, I'm telling
you that the tie that's alittle too short.
The sands bells coming over.
The big belly gonna sell me acar gone.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, what can I do to put you in this car today,
today, today?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
tell me two thumbs, that's what I call him all right
, what does tommy two thumbs?
he's literally the avatar that Ithink people have of a cheesy
sales guy or gal.
Right, it's like, hey, what'sit gonna take?
Like you said, and you know I,I even teach this when I'm doing
seminars and workshops withclients and I have it on the
board and it's a guy sunglassesinside lots of gold chains,
(06:09):
pinky rings, shirt on button tothe belly button.
You know the whole thing lotsof cologne slacks, absolutely,
absolutely canoe.
Oh, there's gotta be somethingfrom the, from a drugstore, for
sure right top shelf drugstoretop top shelf drugstore, so all
right so.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Tommy, two thumbs and you're talking about breaking
the mold, so let's, let's getinto that a little bit.
So how do we become bettersalespeople?
What are?
What are things we need to bedoing?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
The first thing is it's just being conscientious
about the fact that you'realready selling, and I believe
we sell ourselves before we sellanything.
Right, but I don't trust you.
I'm not trusting whateveryou're selling me.
So if we start everyinteraction recognizing this is
a sales exchange, that alreadymakes you better because you go
in with that awareness.
(06:59):
You go in with probably abetter plan for the conversation
and think about it.
Anytime somebody goes in topitch their services, they go in
to have a conversation withtheir spouse about I want to go
here to dinner instead of there.
You think about it ahead oftime.
You have a little bit of a plan.
You're like oh, I'm not, I'mnot going to talk to my spouse
now because they're ticked offbecause they just walked in the
door.
I'm going to give it 15 minutes, wait till they have their
(07:21):
glass of wine.
Then I'm gonna I'm gonnaapproach it at sales so all
right.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
What she's saying is is get people to drink wine and
then you can sell.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
That's what I heard so it reminds me of uh, last
night we had our nary event anduh, we have drinks at these
events.
I said I know everybody comeshere for the great education
because, but let's face it, wedo have alcohol here and the
executive director of our non isover there going.
No, no, it's not a drinkingevent.
I said, I'm sorry, everybody,it's not a drinking event.
150 people.
I said, and speaking of notdrinking events, next month
(07:53):
event we call it a brew bashbecause we're having it at a
brewery, right, I said, but it'sreally a trade appreciation
event, everybody.
So it's not about drinking.
So you're back to selling.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah.
So, Dr Cindy, I got a questionfor you.
If you're trying to get peopleto realize that they're always
selling, how much?
How much do you talk about bodylanguage and that?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
nonverbal communication.
So in the U S in particular,body language is about 80% of
the message.
Of course, so 80, about 80% ofthe of the message and we forget
about that.
It's not just your actual body,it's your tone, it's the
inflection in your voice, therate of your speech.
So even if you're on the phoneor over 2D video message or
(08:31):
something like that, you'restill selling that body language
.
So I think that's a big part ofit is that nonverbal aspect of
the communication is a huge part.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, you hit on one.
I've actually used it in ourbiz.
I picked up from somebody.
It's a well-known.
I don't know where it came from, but it's a 738 55 rule.
People remember seven percentof what you say, 38 of how you
say it, 55 of how you're actingwhile you say it and uh, alan's
looking at me going 7 30.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, I'm just thinking about how fast you talk
and the fact that you'reitalian and you use your hands a
lot.
Does that make you better?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I don't know if that no definitely doesn't make me
better, because only people arepicking about three and a half
percent of what I'm saying.
So, uh, so I think the bodylanguage you talked about that,
but you actually talked aboutone thing.
Let's talk about this for aminute.
A lot of us, we're all gettingback to in-person sales, but
this zoom sales, the video saleshow do you do body language
over that?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
so funny.
People kind of get freaked outby the 2D aspect of it, but the
truth of the matter is you'restill talking to another human.
There's still a 3D on the otherside, so you need to behave as
if they're sitting across thetable from you.
And that's literally how Iteach it when I'm coaching
people on this.
We're sitting across the tablefrom one another.
I'm in California, you guys arein Georgia today, but it's
(09:44):
literally like we're sitting atsomebody's table, and if you
approach it that way, thenyou're actually going to have
more natural body language.
When you forget you'reliterally sitting with someone,
that's when your body languagebecomes very tilted and kind of
fake.
And the other part of it too isand y'all will appreciate this,
I also firmly believe you dressthe part.
(10:06):
So a lot of people kind of dowhat I call the mullet of
clothing.
They'll do business on the topand you know, sweatpants on the
bottom business in the front,party in the back.
But she is not from thepanhandle of florida at all is
she no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Hey, you need to ask her that how much her truck was
lifted.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Well, we're going to get there in a minute.
I want to hear it.
I want to business the frontpart.
But you're right, if you're notpresent with what's going on,
you can really get stilted.
Is that what you said?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, no, but.
I want her to finish thatthought everybody Hang on.
Go put your pants on, okay, butI believe it's sort of you dress
while you play, well, right.
But I also think that it'srecognizing that this is really
still a meeting and even ifyou're in sweatpants, you're
(10:55):
going to behave differently.
We know this.
This is why we make childrendress up right.
They're going to be on theirbest behavior and their Sunday
best sort of a thing.
So I do think that there'ssomething to be said about.
I also think it's the wayyou're projecting.
You know, the day that you'regoing to wear your hot pink
sweatpants is the day your techis going to bust and you're
going to have to stand up andeverybody's going to see your
hot pink sweatpants.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
So you know not saying oh hello, Not saying you
have any.
Thank God, I took those toGoodwill.
Man, oh boy, man, I'm oh boy,Zoom, it's over, Uh-oh, I'm
coming back.
So are we not there?
No, we're there.
I just killed the video bymistake.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Follow up on that.
We have a much more casualsociety today, so is dressing
the part meaning just being alittle bit better than sloppy or
a little bit better than theenvironment would call for?
How do you define that today?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, I think it goes directly to your personal brand
and kind of who you are.
So I'm.
I'm usually a little bit moreprofessional, just.
But that's my brand, that's whoI am, that's what I like she
does.
But I also thank you but I but Ilive in san francisco, so like
here it's, you know, the nicehoodie is your business room
attire and that's okay, it'saccepted here.
So if I go back to, you know,the South, and in Atlanta it's
(12:10):
going to be a little bit moreformal and New York city it's
going to be much more formal.
So it just kind of depends onwhere you're at.
But I think it really is aboutthe reflection of you and what
you want to put out there intothe world, and so I will always
want to put out sort of thatpositive professional image.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
She had, she had, I want to.
I think we snuck it in there.
I just love that phrase though.
Dress well, play well.
That is so key.
You know, you know my mother.
I remember when I went for myfirst interview.
It was going to be for amachine shop.
Right, I was just.
Actually, I was going to work.
(12:48):
I'm going to interview for adoc job.
She goes you're interviewingfor the job you want to be, not
the job you have.
You're the job you're askingfor well, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So I'm in dr cindy, I'm in commercial real estate
and I think about this a lot.
So if you think about aresidential real estate agent,
it's white Lexus bottle, blonde,lots of cologne and some sort
of a suit.
In commercial it's different.
I might be tromping throughsome woods, I might be going
through a dirty warehouse andthere still are some people in
(13:18):
my side of real estate who willput on a suit, but it almost
seems cheesy.
It goes back to that Tommy TwoThumbs.
And so it's like where is thathappy medium, to where I wanna
address competently, I wanna letthem feel like, okay, I'm
dealing with somebody who knowswhat they're doing, but at the
same time it's just, it's areally tough balance.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
It is a tough balance , but I think it goes back to
sort of again what you want toproject.
So, for instance, my guess is,if you were meeting with me and
I was an investor and you hadbeen traipsing through a
warehouse and you were coveredin dust and you had work boots
on and it had a hard hat at somepoint when you showed up to
that meeting to try to win mymoney, you're going to tell me
what you did earlier.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
You're going to actually explain it.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
You're not going to be like, hey, here I am, I'm
showing up.
You're going to say, oh gosh,you know, I forgive the dust,
here's what's been happening.
Then I know sort of the contextof it.
I know you were checking outthe warehouse.
You want me to buy or you wantme to invest in.
So I think it's the way we sellit.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Ieling services I tell all my sales guys.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Uh, over the years, I'm like you're gonna wear a red
polo because red is the call toaction.
I said, but you're always goingto have khaki work pants on and
you're always going to have thetape measure on the side of
your belt and you're going tohave a portfolio that you can
write it, even with electronics.
I said, because you need tolook the part.
(14:41):
You look the part of.
Yeah, I can't see your hands.
They better be callous, becauseI'm expecting you know how to
do this.
I said, but on the flip side, Idon't expect you to be wearing
a polo shirt or a button-downshirt with long sleeves and
wearing your loafers and pullingup in a mercedes because they
go, wait a minute.
You're supposed to be aconstruction guy, but we looked
more professional than mostconstruction guys in their mind.
(15:02):
And then I make all mytechnicians.
Those guys all wear uh t-shirts, uh, while they're working
around, but everybody wearskhaki pants as well.
Same thing.
It's that image play well,dress well.
I mean dress well, play well.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You said something I want to ask the doctor about.
What do you think about?
Red is a call to action asopposed to.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know, maybe stop or blood but it does cover up
blood really well.
I'm not going to lie, I'veproven that.
That's what helped one of theguys squirt away.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I mean, it's a hazard of the job.
No, there's a lot of psychologyaround colors and things like
that, and yellows and reds arethings that are used to sort of
gain attention.
Orange is another one.
So I think it's really aboutagain the brand that you want to
portray.
But I think it's really aboutagain the brand that you want to
portray, but I think for you itis a eye-catching, like hey,
we're here to help and so I loveit.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
That's great.
All right, let's talk a littlebit more about that.
Dr Cindy, I thought we were ateam.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I'm sorry, we'll come back later Everest, we'll get
through the gab on, All right.
So you've obviously talked alot about sales.
In fact, we didn't reallycredential her.
I mean, she actually goes allthe way around the world
teaching people how to sell.
So what are the things you findthat people need the most help
(16:18):
with in selling themselves andselling?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
what they're doing?
Oh, great question.
The first thing is, when you'reselling yourself, you've got to
be super intentional aroundwhat you're putting out into the
world and it's got to beconsistent.
And I find a lot of people havesort of brands in conflict with
one another, where you knowthere's somebody from nine to
five and then there's somebodyelse from five to nine Gives
people a difficult way of havingto file you in their brain.
(16:41):
We need to know who you are.
We want to be consistent.
We see this with celebritiesall the time, right when they
kind of go off brand and we'relike, oh, didn't think that
person was going to do that andthey're human, okay, so maybe
that was, you know, a mistake,maybe it was a branding blunder.
But I think a lot of peopledon't realize that the world is
watching 24 seven.
(17:01):
Nowadays it is social media.
You never know when somebody isgoing to be snapping a picture.
We have cameras in our pocketsand you've got to live that
brand everywhere you go.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, that's, that's right.
24, seven on the brand you knowI found too is that we've been
out and, uh, ellen, I lovenetworking.
That's how we met originally.
We always push that toeverybody.
That's a great way to get intosales is to go out and network
and talk with people.
But when you've ever foundsomebody who has like three
businesses and they come up toyou and they're giving you like
three different cards and you'retrying to figure out what the
hell they're doing, you're likeI don't even know what you do,
(17:34):
right, yeah, yeah which card areyou giving me?
are you a carpet cleaner?
Are you a publisher?
Are you a marketing specialist?
I don't know, and this is theguy I don't know.
You probably know the guy I'mthinking of so, dr cindy, just a
hypothetical situation.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
if asking for a friend, if, uh, this friend goes
to vegas and wants to have agreat time in the sports book,
does he have to stand brandthere or can he?
Can he cut loose a little bitand not care what other people
see?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It depends on what they're trying to put into the
universe, you know, andrecognizing that we may or may
not be talking about somebody Idon't know I don't either.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Hey, big daddy's in the house.
Man, when I get to vegas, baby,it's big time and I'm letting
everybody know how big it is,that's right.
Hey, you want to work with me?
We're big time baby, all right,all right, so that's staying on
.
Brand, please, she's.
She's way too professional.
Obviously, consistency.
Wow, doesn't that suck, thatshe's so professional I hate.
I hate how consistent she isstaying.
(18:34):
It's staying on brand, I know.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I keep trying to wield her brain to destroy you
and I can't.
I know it, just it won't work.
She's too consistent.
No, she is.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Right.
So you go around, you talk withcompanies.
What do people mostly ask youto come and talk to them about?
To help empower theirSalesforce?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, great question.
If they have a sales team, it'sreally working with the sales
team to help them shorten theirsales cycle, gain stickier
clients, better referrals,bigger network.
If they don't have a sales team, or if they have a sales team
but they're realizing, the otherhalf of the house, service side
, needs a little assistance too.
It's working with thenon-salespeople and that's a lot
(19:11):
of the work that we end updoing too is, you know, sales
can bring it in.
Somebody else is likely the onekeeping it, and I truly believe
every job is a sales job.
So we go in and we're helpingeverybody to recognize
everything you do is in sales.
We sort of define it as if youcan tick somebody off, if you
can make their day or if you caninfluence their opinion of your
organization, you're in sales.
(19:32):
So by definition, that'sliterally everybody that works
for you boy.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
She brought up something that really resonates
with me.
Everybody in your organizationis part of the sales process,
and I've got a friend of minewho's new in an industry and
they were just bought out byprivate equity and everything is
great, until it comes to thebilling department, and the
billing department is anightmare.
And so the product's great, theservice is, and the billing
department is a nightmare, andso the product's great, the
service is great, theinstallation's great, all of
(19:58):
that's great.
And then until it comes to themoney piece, and they're killing
repeat business.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
And that's a huge bottleneck.
And funny enough that youmentioned finance and sort of
bookkeeping area.
That's a big bottleneck that wefind in a lot of our
organizations.
We do an assessment first andwe learn kind of what's working,
what's not working, and that isone of the bottleneck areas.
Service is a bottleneck andtimely communication and then
when it gets up that food chainand billing and then sort of the
(20:27):
recap are where the stickypoints are.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
All right, this is a big one, because again, left
brain, right brain, all right.
Doc, you were in school.
How many accountants did youwork with that were good at
sales?
I mean that's, you're basicallytelling these accountants hey,
they're like hey, what do youthink your job is?
Oh, my job is to get the moneyin for the company, cause if I
don't get the money in, you guyscan't go sell more.
(20:50):
But you're saying, hey, do youget that brain to go?
Okay, by the way, you're right,I'm in sales.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I'm going to give you a good question on that, and
it's three to one, by the way.
Doc, I'm way upside down, allright, thank you All right
Answer.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I'm going to pull over everybody put the windows
up, listen turn the volume up,here we go.
So when you're talking tosomebody who's really going to
vehemently oppose the fact thatthey're in sales, you start with
the fact that reminding themthey're selling themselves
already and it's not whatthey're wanting, because that's
what's happening is, they'realready selling, but they're
selling this.
We're not going to help you,we're the ones that control all
(21:26):
the beans.
You can't do this.
It's like, hey, you want thesales team to turn in their
expense reports faster?
Maybe don't be a jerk.
Maybe you know you want theclients to actually be able to
get you the information that youneed so that you can turn the
billing around.
How are you asking?
How are you requesting theirpartnership?
How are you asking for theinformation?
(21:46):
How are you communicating?
It's like IT.
It is one of my favorites,because I always say, well,
we're not in sales and I go oh,you are the most critical point
of sales because you're.
When everything broke down, soyou got to sell these people on
the fact that they're not idiotsbecause, yes, I already
restarted my computer, you gotto sell them on the fact that
you're here to help and youliterally deal with crises every
(22:08):
day.
So what are you putting outthere?
Are you truly selling what youmean to be selling?
And that's where you start toshift their mindset and get
their buy-in so that they canrecognize it makes their life
easier if they approach it froma sales lens.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
What a great perspective.
Turn that lens around, isyou're already selling?
No, I'm not, exactly You'reanti-selling bro.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Whether you like it or not, you're selling.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
You want to sell to make your job easier?
Yeah, I love that.
You know, helping people justkind of put the lens back on
themselves, that's.
That's a great line that Ithink will help a lot of people
with that.
The IT people you're right,they should look at themselves
as heroes, not the oh my God, Igot another picnic.
You've ever heard of that one?
No, oh yeah, all right.
I got another picnic.
You've ever heard of that one?
No, oh yeah, all right.
I got to tell you my picnicstory.
(22:55):
So we were implementing a callcenter years ago when I was in
consulting before I got intobanking, and we implemented a
very sophisticated call centerin the late 90s that did a
computer pop and integration,and so it was pretty complicated
, right.
But again, at the end of theday, it comes down to a CSR or
somebody taking the phone call.
And it comes down to a CSR orsomebody taking the phone call
(23:18):
and they, if we implemented thesystem, you'd have to run around
this, the, the facility, youknow a hundred people, I mean
just think of see a cubes.
And I'm running around with myteam, I'm part of the team, and
you come over and you find outwhat the problem is and you go
yeah, I'm here, yep, we got itfigured out, yeah, it's just a
picnic, so we're just just gonnahave a good old time with it
(23:39):
and we'll get it all figured out.
And because you can't piss offthe csr and say the problem's in
chair, not in computer, sothat's a picnic.
So there you go.
We kept them happy because youhad to keep these people really
happy, because they were alwaysthey were.
It was a call center forfinancial management, your money
.
So all right, all right, doc,so you're back, you're helping
companies realign, getthemselves into sales, and you
are helping a lot of thesepeople in the back office, not
(24:01):
so much in the front sales line.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
We do the front sales too.
It just kind of depends.
But a lot of the clients thatcome to us, their sales team is
doing fine.
They're losing the sale on theback end.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
So they come to us to help stop.
That's got to be a big aha fora lot of companies, cause I
would assume most people justassume, okay, I need to, you
know, get a higher conversionrate or something like that.
More leads, more prospects thatpart of the funnel.
But you're talking a lot moreabout the rest of the sales
process that they don't evenrealize is part of the sales
process, and especially when itcomes to repeat referral sales
as well process, and especiallywhen it comes to repeat referral
sales as well.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Oh yeah, she talked, she talked.
You know again how much does itcost to acquire a customer, how
much does it cost to keep acustomer, and in my business, 40
of my business is repeatcustomers there you go.
So that's why I, you know, I Idid the presentation for nary
called customer services sales.
I just didn't.
I did it more like on a gradelevel uh, grade school level as
opposed to doc here.
But I love what you're sayingabout that.
But how do you get, how docompanies come to that
(25:00):
realization?
Aha, it's not my sales team,it's the other guys that need
help with that.
That's gotta be a hard sell onyour part to get them to go.
Yeah, we have the problem.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It is to a degree, but we're we're a consulting
company, so we go in and weassess the organization first,
so we do confidential one-on-oneinterviews with depending on
how big the company is.
We just did one for a 3000person company and we did about
200 interviews and in that weliterally are finding out what's
working, what's not working.
And I'll give you a quick story.
So there was a title insurancecompany you guys are in real
(25:30):
estate, so you know that worldand we found out that they had a
really productive sales team.
But what was ending uphappening is they were sneaking
out the back door, so they werebringing in something like 60
new customers a month.
They were losing like 62.
And so they couldn't figure outwhy they kept staying even.
And I said, well, let's look atthis, let's look at the math,
let's figure this out.
(25:52):
And what we were realizing isthey were really just treading
water at that point and we hadto figure out why people were
leaving.
And so we started looking at it, we started looking at reviews,
we really dug deep and itwasn't that sales wasn't doing a
great job, they were, but theywere selling what I would call a
transaction ship.
Just give me one.
Just try us one time.
Just give me a bone, just giveus one, give me one.
(26:15):
Just try us one time.
Just give me a bone, just giveus one.
I gave you one.
Okay, is that really what youwant?
So there was no alliance with areal estate agent sending the
business.
On the flip side of that, theescrow teams were looking at
this going well, alan doesn'twork with us, alan works with
so-and-so down the street.
He's not our client.
Yeah, that's called a prospect,so let's maybe invite him to
(26:36):
stay.
And so it was sort of bothsides of the house really needed
to step up a little bitdifferently to be able to not
only bring those clients andmake them feel welcome, but keep
them there and grow them.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah that, throw me a bone.
It actually works.
But then you better do a greatjob with that one bone.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, I love that line transactionship, not
relationship.
Yeah, so good.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Well it is.
It's like you're only as goodas the last transaction.
And it's funny, because whenyou ask them to throw you a bone
, think about even what you'reasking.
Like seasoned salesprofessionals, mess this one up,
in my opinion too, becausethey'll ask for an order, a try,
versus a partnership.
I don't want you to try us once.
I want you to try us, I wantyou to love us and I want you to
tell everybody else about us.
(27:19):
So you're still looking for arelationship with that person.
Ask for what you want, takewhat you can get.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, it's an opportunity to prove yourself as
a way.
I always looked at that.
You know, try me once so I canprove myself, because I
understand that you're not goingto sign up for a lifelong
relationship.
But once you see how we do it,then you're going to be much
more inclined to do so.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, but you, you're coming at it from the no like
and trust and know you're goingto deliver on it.
I get, I get what's going on.
If you're just out there justbringing them in, you're
bringing them in the gate andyou're taking their tiki and
you're hitting the road andyou're just the sales hawker at
the circus tent, you don't knowwhat's going on inside the
circus tent.
That's right.
The monkeys are in there goingcrazy.
Where's the bearded lady?
(28:02):
Where's the bearded lady?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I thought you said man, what a picture you're
painting on this one.
Well again, sales problems.
You mentioned three bottlenecks.
One we touched on was theaccounting side of things.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
What were the other two again?
So the service side and thensort of the follow-up after the
whole transaction.
If they are, you know how doyou keep the customer engaged
after they're finished withtheir whatever service or
product that you bought?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
what are some best practices on that, on the
retention and following up?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
great question so first of all, the.
The challenge is you actuallyhave to recognize that the
retention begins at the verybeginning of the partnership.
And this is another piece whereI find that a lot of even
seasoned sales pros mess up isto look to get married.
Here.
We're going to wow you.
This first date's going to beamazing, but I'm telling you
(28:59):
this is going to be where youwant to be.
So it's setting that stage.
The second part of it is throughthe whatever experiences for
the customer making sure they'rebeing seen, felt and heard.
They need to be truly seen.
What do they need?
Are we understanding that theybe truly seen?
What do they need?
Are we understanding that theyneed to feel like they belong
there and they need to be heardwith regard to what their needs
(29:20):
are.
They're being unmet, whateverthat is.
And then the last piece is oncethe transaction is over, what is
your sort of touch points?
To stay in front of them, andthis is where a lot of companies
end up not realizing they'recreating transaction ships.
They have no way to keep themcoming back.
They have no way to stay intouch with them.
So that's why they get onmailing lists and things like
that, but have you asked them tocome back?
(29:41):
Did you ask them to send you areferral If they had a great
experience?
Did you ask for that Googlereview so you can continue
online?
Did you ask them to follow youonline?
There's a lot of ways to stayin touch with customers where
they're not really in your house, but they're at least in your
ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
So, wow, this is you got one.
Yeah, oh boy, then I'm going tohold mine back.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
No, we've been doing this podcast.
How long, chris?
Three and a half years, yeah,and we love referrals and we
can't figure out a way otherthan just natural and organic.
And you know, just asking forthem, is there such a thing as
any kind of a referral system orprogram that actually works?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I'd be curious to know how you're asking for
referrals.
So how do you do it now?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Well me, I usually beg, I plead.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Do you cry?
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I do, I can actually I'd have one drop that can come
out of my eye.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
More tears?
No, how do we do?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
it.
You know what we?
We don't ask.
I don't actually go for the askand the referrals.
Now again with our, with ourcustomer base, what we do.
I've got 17,000 people in myemail database, so we email out
information every once a monthand it's a starts with a video
for me a little bit about thehome, a little bit about the
home, a little bit about thisand not asking, but also
(30:57):
explaining hey, we've gothandyman for a day, but we never
asked for that referral.
And um, but back to back to yourpoint.
I would tell you we tried this.
I said, hey, look, if you referme to your friend, I'll take 25
off or I'll give you a 25 giftcard.
Backfired on me, they said,well, I don't want the money,
just do my, do my friend rightand give them the 25 bucks.
That's where I found it keptblowing up on me.
(31:17):
And then I've had othercontractors who refer a lot of
smaller jobs to us say, hey, weneed to get a kickback.
I'm like all right, you have areferral system.
What do you want me to do?
Yeah, I want to get sevenpercent of every job you do.
I'm like what do you think I'mmaking, bro?
I mean it's you want my wholenet.
I'm like that ain't happening.
So yeah, I did.
(31:38):
To Alan's point I have notfound a good one yet that if
implemented works other thanbeing authentic, where people
just go, man, I want my friendto work with this great company.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
And that's actually the best way to do it, but you
do have to ask and you have tocontinue to ask, because the
problem is, if you ask at theend of the job, they may not
have anybody in mind that has aneed.
They may not have anyone thatthey can come up with like at
this moment that needs thehandyman.
That's where your, yournewsletter comes in, though.
I think that's really powerful.
You stay in front of them, butis there an ask in the
newsletter?
(32:09):
That's another place.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
How often do we keep in touch?
I was going to be rude andstart writing that down, but I'm
like I can't do that.
All right, that's I.
Uh, I'm telling cindy right now, when you listen to this,
remind me we need to do the askin the next newsletter?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
yeah, I love that.
So what would you ask people?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
want to help you people want to help you yeah
like, like, listen to thispodcast, man, if you like.
If you like this thing.
Now this is how it sounds.
Uh, let me know if this soundsdesperate.
Man, can you just tell somebodyelse about us?
We should be up as big assmartless.
We should be as big as rogerfor the love of god but, can you
help a brother?
Oh man, come on please cry morewas that a little?
(32:48):
Was that a little too whiny?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I, I, you know, I kind of like the tears.
I think I mean they work.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
So you know, I say go for it but, but I think, put
the food on my kid's table.
I've done that one.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, well, there you go, that one too.
You know my kids are gonnastarve, but I think that it's
really about being authenticabout their experience and
making sure that you're honoringwhatever that was.
Getting that honest feedback,hey, how was this?
Like?
Did we do everything you neededus to do?
Yeah, we loved working with youtoo, cause you're not a psycho.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Like do you?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
have any non-psycho neighbors that you can recommend
?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I like that line a lot.
You know what actually.
That's how I asked.
You know, the problem is yournext book.
Is that you know now?
Because when I first started mybusiness, my big aha moment
which is what I put in my bookwas that I was for the first
time in my entire life I was ina retail business.
I had been either in a machineshop, in engineering, in
consulting or working in banking, but this is the first time I
(33:39):
was working with the generalpublic.
And you think your neighborsare normal, man brother, I'm
going to tell you, if you lookaround and you say all my
neighbors are normal, I'mtelling you one of the three,
you isn't.
And if you're looking andsaying those two are normal,
it's probably you.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah, you're the crazy one,dude.
You're the crazy uncle.
You're the one I do not want togo into your house because
you're nuts, psycho, always one.
It took a negative.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Let's go positive, all right you're running all the
emotions today.
Oh boy, I'm crying.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I'm angry.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I know it's what all your therapists you keep holding
.
I know we got to give him abelly laugh before the episode
is over all of the emotions.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
That's a good one.
Yeah right, thank you, doc.
I'd see you're welcome.
Oh, my god.
Oh, where was I going?
I?
I had another big question.
I was gonna ask you, um, andnow I completely lost it.
Hmm, go figure, hummingbird,all right, let's talk about your
book, and then I'll remember.
So you got a book, you got acouple books, you got books that
are actually not even inenglish so new york times
best-selling books, how aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
yeah, am I feeling a little less than yeah I do,
because I do like the fact thatyou know he's always rubbing in
that usually our guest has abook, chris has a book, alan
doesn't have a book.
But I'm like you know, if I'mnot gonna have a book, that's
okay, because she has a book.
Alan doesn't have a book, butI'm like you know, if I'm not
going to have a book, that'sokay Because she has a New York
times bestselling book.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
So we don't even bring up the fact that I wrote a
book.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
All right doc.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
How can we find your book?
What are they it does talkabout?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
it.
Uh, the first book was calledevery job is a sales job, but
it's literally the book I wishsomebody had given me when I was
probably 18.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
It's the book, I didn't learn.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, and and you know it's funny I have three
degrees in communication fromamazing school and I didn't get
taught what was in that book.
So I think we really need to tohelp people to learn that sales
is not just a business skill,it's a life skill.
So that was the first book, andthen the second book is sell
yourself, and it's aboutpersonal branding and
recognizing that you're sellingyourself before you sell
(35:36):
anything, and your reputationwhich we would have called it
back when we were younger, nowit's called personal brand is
really yours to write, and it'salso yours to lose, and
recognizing that everything youdo and, quite frankly,
everything you don't do isaffecting people's perception of
that.
So craft it the way that youwant to, sort of like your mom's
(35:57):
advice dress for the job youwant.
Craft yourself for the brandthat you want.
Make sure that you'rereinforcing that out there and
being authentic and y'all arefrom the South side, y'all
understand this.
Don't get a little big for yourbritches, right?
You got to be you.
You got to be authentic everysingle day and every interaction
.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Yeah, authenticity, I think, is big.
That's one of the biggestthings we push in our sales
process is that I'm going togive you all the lines.
I'm going to do this and youknow we have a hard job in our
case because you've got to beestimator and salesperson all at
the same time and again you gotto use your.
You got to use the detail partof your brain and then you also
use the sales part.
But I, like I can tell you howI do it.
But you got to be you and likethe current guy I'm training is
(36:37):
a very straight dude.
He just doesn't do the sarcasmand humor that I do, like if
somebody says something, they'relike, hey, can you fit around
there?
I'm like I'm not that fat yet,uh, you know.
But he can't do that.
So I'm like you, you got to beyou, you gotta, you gotta.
And so I'm trying to figure outlines he can use that will help
him.
But you know they can't befunny off, because I I'll never
(36:58):
forget I tried to use a line oneof my sales guys did with a
customer because I can be funny,but I can't be this funny and
the guy says something and myother sales guys have said
sometimes you've got to put yourbig boy pants on and saddle up
and ride.
So I said sometimes you got toput your big boy pants up and
settle out and ride.
And he looked at me and I lookback and it was one of those
things, like you know, again dothe old RCA Victor dog right.
(37:19):
We both did this and I said Iapologize.
I said I was trying to use asales line that one of my guys
taught me.
I said I just don't have it.
He goes yeah, don't ever usethat one again.
I ended up getting the jobbecause I was off.
I said look, you're authentic Iwas.
I was like, let me back up.
You know, right, I'm a generalcontractor.
I'm telling you you got options.
You can do it this way or thatway, but my recommendation is to
(37:40):
do it the more expensive waybecause I think it'll come back
and bite you.
I think you should try it again.
That was the best I challengedyou.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Look to me and I looked at him and I went.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's not statistically relevant.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
You need at least five.
Do I do?
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Sometimes you got to put your big boy bridges on
saddle up and ride.
I just didn't have that in me.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
I just have images of the movie Tommy Boy when he was
trying to use the phrase.
And it's like the same kind ofthing.
It's got to be your bull, solike there you go.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
And then at the end we actually use that one.
In fact, we actually used thatone.
In fact, we just used this insales training.
This morning, when he goes, guysays nope, he goes, all righty.
Then all right, we're done,okie dokie, okie, dokie, all
righty then great, great, greatmovie, oh my goodness but that's
a sales movie but.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
I need to videotape him, uh, when he does this, this
, uh, saddle up and ride again.
I'm gonna need to see video.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
So yeah, that could be.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
That could be your number one short that you know
what I'm gonna have to, probablycindy remind me.
We're gonna do that one.
I'm gonna play that one backout because if, if you could
have been there and seen, I mean, I'm living this vividly now,
and it's been like put your faceon when you do it I should.
Yeah, right, so that's what Iwas going to ask, doc.
All right, doc.
So you grew up in the panhandleof florida.
(38:59):
For those who don't know thepanhandle of florida or florida
in general, if you're acontractor from florida, it's
not how.
If you lifted your truck, it'sjust how many inches you lifted
your truck.
So how many inches did you liftyour pickup truck before you
left?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I didn't have a truck , I had a little red car with
T-tops.
That's how long ago.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Oh, cars with T-tops.
Oh, of course you did.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
From the panhandle.
Of course I had a car withT-tops, of course you did
Smoking the bandit she's riding.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Absolutely, it's awesome, all right.
So you got two books out,obviously, and a new york times
bestseller.
So you guys, guys, we aregetting seriously for free,
you're getting a chance tolisten to how cool we are, but
we're gonna have to wrap thissucker up because we've got
probably like 10 more minutesand I definitely want to get to
those final four questions.
(39:52):
But, um, is there one more bigquestion?
What did we miss?
What is the one secret Give me?
Speaker 2 (39:59):
something.
I love that question, thoughwhat's the question I didn't ask
.
The question I didn't ask.
Yeah, what's the best question?
We didn't ask.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Great question.
The question you didn't askthat I think your audience would
really like to know is how doyou get everybody in your
organization involved in thesales process?
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Well, you fire the ones that don't right.
Chris, that's what I do.
Am I wrong?
Yes, and.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yes and yes and.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yes, and.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
But they've got to be bought in right, like that's
part of the challenge.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
They've got to be bought in, right, like that's
part of the challenge.
They got to be bought in withwhat you're doing here.
When they see the other oneswith the box in their hand
walking out the door, then theybuy in quick, right?
Chris?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
I mean, I didn't even let him go out with the box, he
just grabbed his mouse and saidI'm done.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Fear works, fear works.
I mean, use that Fear and power.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Thank yes, and All right, Doc, give us a better one
.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
But I think it's about getting them bought into
how this is going to help them.
At the end of the day and Ithink that's the part we forget
is the mandate is given,everybody's going to do this,
and that's something we tell ourclients all the time.
They'll say well, this is amandatory meeting.
Never say that.
Never say that, because thatmeans you've taken completely
away my human choice.
Never say that, because thatmeans you've taken completely
(41:16):
away my human choice.
What you want to do is givepeople options, help them to see
there is an easier path to dothis.
If you adopt this, there is jobsecurity.
If you start to do these things, you will have greater team
members that you can lean on,because we will have capacity to
hire.
There are lots of ways to helpthem to see how this is going to
benefit them.
At the end of the day and Ithink a lot of leaders skip that
(41:37):
they just sort of throw out themandate or they'll give the
goal and say, okay, well,everybody go do it, do they know
how.
And then you have to give themsupport.
You have to give them help andcoaching and training on it as
well, but the way to do it isget them to see why this is
going to help them first, andthen it helps the company.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Amen, that is awesome .
I love that one Cause I dotraining with my uh, my entire
office, uh, we get together, uheverybody, every other Wednesday
and I had one guy and I've hadmultiple guys over the years
come up and say hey, you don'tpay me for the training.
I said you want 20 bucks forthat hour.
You can, I said, but if you'renot catching what I'm putting
down, I said you're missing outon 500 bucks this month, this
week alone.
(42:17):
I'm cause I'm teaching you howto get add on sales.
I'm teaching you how to get abetter transaction.
I'm teaching you how to getinto a transaction with a
customer, make it happen and getout of there and get a tip, get
a review, which I actually payyou for.
I'm like, if that's what you'rethinking the whole time you're
in training, and then on theflip side the positive side of
this is, I've had some guys sayyou know what?
Um I?
I actually start to lookforward to that training.
(42:39):
I didn't believe it in thebeginning, but now I get what
you're, what you're doing, andit's helped me and I've been
able to do great things for myfamily.
So I'd love hearing that.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Wow, love that.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
All right, doc, we all need to figure out how to
find you.
So how do we find you?
And let's get into those finalfour questions.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Excellent.
So I can be found at drcindycom, d-r-c-i-n-d-ycom or at 1ST
Lady of Sales, first Lady ofSales, on all the different
platforms andorangeleafconsultingcom
orangeleafacademycom.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
We'll put those all in the show notes.
We're going to do all that.
Now, let's get into it, shallwe?
Let's do it All right.
What is the favorite book youwould refer to our audience that
you didn't write?
That's right, and it doesn'thave to be a bestseller.
Disclaimer Come on.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So the book that I used to use when I was a college
professor, that I used forinterpersonal communication, was
how to Win Friends and Inf.
It's an oldie but a goodie andI think it should be required
reading for adulting.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
So hands down.
We don't use mandatory.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
No, it's going to make your life better.
We're going to make your lifebetter.
That was a test the doctor gaveus right there.
Yeah, that's good, we werelistening, I was listening, I'm
opting in.
I'm opting in.
Yes, please, yes, please.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
All right, the favorite feature of your home,
my balcony.
Actually, all right, because goahead, lay it out.
I can see the transamericabuilding, it's because you're in
san francisco on the hill.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
That's looking awesome.
We're in a great city to be in.
I know it's getting some badpress but uh, but people who
live there are like dude wrong.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, I don't go by that area anyway, so it doesn't
matter it's funny you say thatliterally everybody's like, oh
my gosh, are you guys stillthere?
I'm like y'all know me, I'mkind of prissy, like I wouldn't
be here if it was what the newsis showing all right, awesome,
all right.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
So you talked about this, customer service and sales
and all that.
One of the things that alan andI really pride ourselves on is
that, when it comes to customerservice, we are customer service
freaks, yeah, let's go.
All right, doc.
What is the customer servicepet peeve of yours when you're
out and you're the customer?
Speaker 1 (44:43):
having to repeat myself what say that?
Speaker 3 (44:48):
sarcasm, smart ass, don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
We're all of them gold star for both, right yeah
all, all right.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Give us an example.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
So you tell one person, then you get transferred
to another person, or you gotto go tell this person the story
, then you got to go tell it tothem.
Or they say, oh, I just readyour notes.
Can you tell it to me again?
No, you're wasting my time.
These are billable hours.
I told it to one person.
That should be enough to get mea solution, and that is one of
my biggest pet peeves is havingto just repeat it excellent,
(45:19):
that's a, that is a great one.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
All right, all right.
Prissy t-tops, here we go.
We got to hear a diy nightmarestory, though, because we love
this stuff.
I just brought this thing up tosomebody else the other day and
I'm like no, I want, I wantsomething better.
He goes oh, dude, I just don'tdo much.
I'm like, dude, I can tell youlike every one of my fingers has
had a nail in it.
(45:41):
I said there are.
I mean, yeah, I know, don'tworry, they're still here.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Um, I didn't cut them yet, yet one left, um, so so
give us a DIY, because you showit to me an awful lot.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, that's right so , truth be told, I'm not much of
a diy kind of gal, but I waspretty proud of myself that I
figured out how to resurface thebathroom cabinets.
And my husband was out of townand I you know you can find
anything on youtube and thehardware store you find the guy
that looks like he knows whathe's doing and then he'll help
you.
So I uh, I them all all thedifferent cabinet parts off, got
(46:17):
everything done.
This was a long time ago.
Not proud of this, but I didn'thave like an electric
screwdriver, so I was literallydoing this with it, couldn't
figure out which hinge went withwhich one, couldn't get the
doors back on the right ways, soended up having to call
(46:38):
somebody to come and help me atthe very end who bought his
magic electric screwdriver anddid what took me 45 minutes in
like five minutes.
So, a little embarrassed by that, but hey, it's a true story.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
That's a little one, but that's a big one.
People don't realize that one.
So sometimes you get in thereand you start deconstructing
everything.
You're like you know what?
I'm going to change out my ownoutlet, I can do that.
And you go in there and it's athree-way and they're like oh, I
did that.
Um all here.
Here's the thing I would telleverybody always take a picture
of it with your phone before youget started in today's world
and then don't be afraid toactually go ahead and put some
(47:13):
numbers on things.
It's okay, you can tape it,because you don't know how it
goes together.
And uh, that's, that'sdefinitely a great lesson.
And that's what happened to youwith your hinges and those
cabinet doors.
That's amazing.
Yep, that's funny.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
It's a good one.
Funny.
You say that he actually askedme he goes.
Did you number them?
No, the youtube video did nottell me to number them uh, this
is so well, I love zoom um.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
It says I raised my hand, uh, to talk.
I'm like I don't.
I don't raise my hand to talk,I just talk, baby.
All right, everybody, you justwent to graduate school, so go
get your caps on graduationseason.
Move that tassel over to theright side, I would.
I don't even know, that doesn'tmatter.
What was it, doc?
You did it a couple times I'mtrying to remember.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Oh, from the left to the right, you've done it,
you've graduated.
Go put some of this.
I don't even know, it doesn'tmatter.
What was it, doc?
Speaker 3 (47:56):
You did it a couple times I'm trying to remember oh
yep, left side, right side, moveit from the left to the right.
You've done it, you'vegraduated.
Go, put some of this stuff inaction.
Go back and re-listen to it.
My challenge to you is beforeyou get to that next episode,
try something.
Always be selling yourself.
Doc this with some of yourfolks.
Share this with other peopletoo.
Let them know, follow us, giveus a share, put your big white
britches on, chris, and let's goout and saddle up and ride.
(48:19):
We're out of here, Cheerseverybody, Thank you for
listening to this episode of theSmall Business Safari.
Remember your positive attitudewill help you achieve that
higher altitude you're lookingfor in the wild world of small
business ownership.
And until next time, make it agreat day.
And when I realized what it really is it's about
understanding needs, helpingpeople, figuring out solutions
together, collaboration I waslike, oh dang, I've been doing
this my whole life.
I just didn't call it sales,but we do have that ick factor
about it.
We all think of sort of thepushy, manipulative, cheesy
sales guy that's such a smallminute portion of salespeople,
(00:23):
and even those guys don't wantto be that.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
So let's change the script on sale.
Yeah, yeah, but polyester'sgoing out.
Polyester sands of bells aregoing out.
Brother, I'm telling you thatthe tie that's a little too
short.
The sands of bells coming over.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The big belly gonna sell me a car gone yeah what can
I do to put you in this cartoday, today, today.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Tommy.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Two Thumbs, that's what I call him.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
All right, what is Tommy?
Two Thumbs.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
He's literally the avatar that I think people have
of a cheesy sales guy or gal.
Right, it's like, hey, what'sit going to take, like you said
and I even teach this when I'mdoing seminars and workshops
with clients and I have it onthe board and it's a guy
sunglasses inside lots of goldchains, pinky rings, shirt on
button to the belly button.
You know the whole thing lotsof cologne slacks, absolutely,
(01:13):
absolutely canoe.
Oh, there's gotta be somethingfrom a drugstore, for sure right
top shelf drugstore top shelfdrugstore, right Top shelf
drugstore, all right so.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Tommy, two thumbs.
Welcome to the Small BusinessSafari where I help guide you to
avoid those traps, pitfalls anddangers that lurk when
navigating the wild world ofsmall business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
(01:47):
and professional goals.
So strap in adventure team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
Alan, you man, my God, you area chit chat.
You just can't shut me up today.
Oh, my god, we're gonna have.
(02:08):
You know what?
I got the mute button ready togo right now and I got the dump
button for sure, because I'm notsure what's going to come out
of this episode.
But you and your, your saucymouth, I don't know I just sorry
, sorry, I apologize in advance.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
They call it working blue.
That's what they call it.
Is that why we're explicit?
All me, all these years it'sbeen you all these fucking years
.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I can't believe this is going on.
This is crazy.
Well, guys, great episode ontap.
Today we are going to talkabout what is the linchpin, what
is the secret, what is thething that actually makes your
business roll?
Is it being good at your books?
Absolutely.
Is it being good at being aprocess documenter, of course.
Is it good at making sure thatpeople pay you?
(02:49):
Well, let me tell you aboutthat, ladies and gentlemen.
Yes, but what makes it work?
Alan go, you got to drive sales, you got to have sales, and you
know what.
We're not just going to gograde school sales shit here
today, boys.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
No girls.
How about grade school?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
sales shit here today .
Boys, no girls.
How about high school sales?
No, I can, I say no, we have ajunior.
Junior college sales nope, noteven there.
We're going higher.
Keep going, alan, keep going.
Undergrad sales oh my god, no,we have graduated from there,
we're off the bachelor's masters, masters of sales, no no, no,
my god.
We're going to the pop, we'regoing to the pinnacle.
Where are we going, alan?
The doctor, we have the doctor,dr cindy begovern in the house.
First lady of sales doc, thanksfor coming in and let's go.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Thanks, for having me guys.
It's a pleasure to be here, andI just already know this is
going to be a hoot, so let's dothis let's do this, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
So all right, doc, we need a lot of help in sales.
We all do.
We all wish we were better atit.
We all think sometimes we thinkwe're really good at it until
you get hit in the nose and, asthey say, that's mike tyson.
Everybody has a plan to get inthe nose.
So you have made your life'smission of getting into sales
and helping people with it.
So what's the secret?
(03:57):
Give us just I'm sure it's justone line, and we're going to
close up this episode.
Call it good, doc is fiveminutes.
We're done right now all it is.
Is that all it takes, doc?
What do?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
we do.
I mean, if you want a one-liner, it's really the fact that
every job is a sales job andevery interaction is a sales
interaction and you have totreat every single one as such
gold nugget right off the rip.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I you know, and I've said something similar and I'm
not nearly as educated as ourguests, but, like I always, even
my reverend father was asalesman.
Your dentist is a salesperson,always be selling Always.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
You know what I told young people the same thing when
we did the summer internshipprogram is that when you're in
college you're still sellingyourself.
You better be thinking aboutyourself a hundred percent right
.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And that mindset is so important because and I think
you use the word ick and takingthe ick- out of sales because
there's so many people that justthink it's this vile practice
that only snakes use, and it'snot true.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
That's so true and I used to think that, truth be
told, I never wanted to be insales.
And I got put into a sales roleand when I realized what it
really is it's aboutunderstanding needs, helping
people, figuring out solutionstogether, collaboration I was
like, oh dang, I've been doingthis my whole life.
I just didn't call it sales.
But we do have that ick factorabout it.
(05:17):
We all think of sort of thepushy, manipulative, cheesy
sales guy.
That's such a small, smallminute portion of sales people,
and even those guys don't wantto be that.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So let's change the script on sales.
Yeah, polyester sands bells aregoing out, brother, I'm telling
you that the tie that's alittle too short.
The sands bells coming over.
The big belly gonna sell me acar gone.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, what can I do to put you in this car today,
today, today?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
tell me two thumbs, that's what I call him all right
, what does tommy two thumbs?
he's literally the avatar that Ithink people have of a cheesy
sales guy or gal.
Right, it's like, hey, what'sit gonna take?
Like you said, and you know I,I even teach this when I'm doing
seminars and workshops withclients and I have it on the
board and it's a guy sunglassesinside lots of gold chains,
(06:09):
pinky rings, shirt on button tothe belly button.
You know the whole thing lotsof cologne slacks, absolutely,
absolutely canoe.
Oh, there's gotta be somethingfrom the, from a drugstore, for
sure right top shelf drugstoretop top shelf drugstore, so all
right so.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Tommy, two thumbs and you're talking about breaking
the mold, so let's, let's getinto that a little bit.
So how do we become bettersalespeople?
What are?
What are things we need to bedoing?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
The first thing is it's just being conscientious
about the fact that you'realready selling, and I believe
we sell ourselves before we sellanything.
Right, but I don't trust you.
I'm not trusting whateveryou're selling me.
So if we start everyinteraction recognizing this is
a sales exchange, that alreadymakes you better because you go
in with that awareness.
(06:59):
You go in with probably abetter plan for the conversation
and think about it.
Anytime somebody goes in topitch their services, they go in
to have a conversation withtheir spouse about I want to go
here to dinner instead of there.
You think about it ahead oftime.
You have a little bit of a plan.
You're like oh, I'm not, I'mnot going to talk to my spouse
now because they're ticked offbecause they just walked in the
door.
I'm going to give it 15 minutes, wait till they have their
(07:21):
glass of wine.
Then I'm gonna I'm gonnaapproach it at sales so all
right.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
What she's saying is is get people to drink wine and
then you can sell.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
That's what I heard so it reminds me of uh, last
night we had our nary event anduh, we have drinks at these
events.
I said I know everybody comeshere for the great education
because, but let's face it, wedo have alcohol here and the
executive director of our non isover there going.
No, no, it's not a drinkingevent.
I said, I'm sorry, everybody,it's not a drinking event.
150 people.
I said, and speaking of notdrinking events, next month
(07:53):
event we call it a brew bashbecause we're having it at a
brewery, right, I said, but it'sreally a trade appreciation
event, everybody.
So it's not about drinking.
So you're back to selling.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah.
So, Dr Cindy, I got a questionfor you.
If you're trying to get peopleto realize that they're always
selling, how much?
How much do you talk about bodylanguage and that?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
nonverbal communication.
So in the U S in particular,body language is about 80% of
the message.
Of course, so 80, about 80% ofthe of the message and we forget
about that.
It's not just your actual body,it's your tone, it's the
inflection in your voice, therate of your speech.
So even if you're on the phoneor over 2D video message or
(08:31):
something like that, you'restill selling that body language
.
So I think that's a big part ofit is that nonverbal aspect of
the communication is a huge part.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, you hit on one.
I've actually used it in ourbiz.
I picked up from somebody.
It's a well-known.
I don't know where it came from, but it's a 738 55 rule.
People remember seven percentof what you say, 38 of how you
say it, 55 of how you're actingwhile you say it and uh, alan's
looking at me going 7 30.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, I'm just thinking about how fast you talk
and the fact that you'reitalian and you use your hands a
lot.
Does that make you better?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I don't know if that no definitely doesn't make me
better, because only people arepicking about three and a half
percent of what I'm saying.
So, uh, so I think the bodylanguage you talked about that,
but you actually talked aboutone thing.
Let's talk about this for aminute.
A lot of us, we're all gettingback to in-person sales, but
this zoom sales, the video saleshow do you do body language
over that?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
so funny.
People kind of get freaked outby the 2D aspect of it, but the
truth of the matter is you'restill talking to another human.
There's still a 3D on the otherside, so you need to behave as
if they're sitting across thetable from you.
And that's literally how Iteach it when I'm coaching
people on this.
We're sitting across the tablefrom one another.
I'm in California, you guys arein Georgia today, but it's
(09:44):
literally like we're sitting atsomebody's table, and if you
approach it that way, thenyou're actually going to have
more natural body language.
When you forget you'reliterally sitting with someone,
that's when your body languagebecomes very tilted and kind of
fake.
And the other part of it too isand y'all will appreciate this,
I also firmly believe you dressthe part.
(10:06):
So a lot of people kind of dowhat I call the mullet of
clothing.
They'll do business on the topand you know, sweatpants on the
bottom business in the front,party in the back.
But she is not from thepanhandle of florida at all is
she no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Hey, you need to ask her that how much her truck was
lifted.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Well, we're going to get there in a minute.
I want to hear it.
I want to business the frontpart.
But you're right, if you're notpresent with what's going on,
you can really get stilted.
Is that what you said?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, no, but.
I want her to finish thatthought everybody Hang on.
Go put your pants on, okay, butI believe it's sort of you dress
while you play, well, right.
But I also think that it'srecognizing that this is really
still a meeting and even ifyou're in sweatpants, you're
(10:55):
going to behave differently.
We know this.
This is why we make childrendress up right.
They're going to be on theirbest behavior and their Sunday
best sort of a thing.
So I do think that there'ssomething to be said about.
I also think it's the wayyou're projecting.
You know, the day that you'regoing to wear your hot pink
sweatpants is the day your techis going to bust and you're
going to have to stand up andeverybody's going to see your
hot pink sweatpants.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
So you know not saying oh hello, Not saying you
have any.
Thank God, I took those toGoodwill.
Man, oh boy, man, I'm oh boy,Zoom, it's over, Uh-oh, I'm
coming back.
So are we not there?
No, we're there.
I just killed the video bymistake.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Follow up on that.
We have a much more casualsociety today, so is dressing
the part meaning just being alittle bit better than sloppy or
a little bit better than theenvironment would call for?
How do you define that today?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, I think it goes directly to your personal brand
and kind of who you are.
So I'm.
I'm usually a little bit moreprofessional, just.
But that's my brand, that's whoI am, that's what I like she
does.
But I also thank you but I but Ilive in san francisco, so like
here it's, you know, the nicehoodie is your business room
attire and that's okay, it'saccepted here.
So if I go back to, you know,the South, and in Atlanta it's
(12:10):
going to be a little bit moreformal and New York city it's
going to be much more formal.
So it just kind of depends onwhere you're at.
But I think it really is aboutthe reflection of you and what
you want to put out there intothe world, and so I will always
want to put out sort of thatpositive professional image.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
She had, she had, I want to.
I think we snuck it in there.
I just love that phrase though.
Dress well, play well.
That is so key.
You know, you know my mother.
I remember when I went for myfirst interview.
It was going to be for amachine shop.
Right, I was just.
Actually, I was going to work.
(12:48):
I'm going to interview for adoc job.
She goes you're interviewingfor the job you want to be, not
the job you have.
You're the job you're askingfor well, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So I'm in dr cindy, I'm in commercial real estate
and I think about this a lot.
So if you think about aresidential real estate agent,
it's white Lexus bottle, blonde,lots of cologne and some sort
of a suit.
In commercial it's different.
I might be tromping throughsome woods, I might be going
through a dirty warehouse andthere still are some people in
(13:18):
my side of real estate who willput on a suit, but it almost
seems cheesy.
It goes back to that Tommy TwoThumbs.
And so it's like where is thathappy medium, to where I wanna
address competently, I wanna letthem feel like, okay, I'm
dealing with somebody who knowswhat they're doing, but at the
same time it's just, it's areally tough balance.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
It is a tough balance , but I think it goes back to
sort of again what you want toproject.
So, for instance, my guess is,if you were meeting with me and
I was an investor and you hadbeen traipsing through a
warehouse and you were coveredin dust and you had work boots
on and it had a hard hat at somepoint when you showed up to
that meeting to try to win mymoney, you're going to tell me
what you did earlier.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
You're going to actually explain it.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
You're not going to be like, hey, here I am, I'm
showing up.
You're going to say, oh gosh,you know, I forgive the dust,
here's what's been happening.
Then I know sort of the contextof it.
I know you were checking outthe warehouse.
You want me to buy or you wantme to invest in.
So I think it's the way we sellit.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Ieling services I tell all my sales guys.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Uh, over the years, I'm like you're gonna wear a red
polo because red is the call toaction.
I said, but you're always goingto have khaki work pants on and
you're always going to have thetape measure on the side of
your belt and you're going tohave a portfolio that you can
write it, even with electronics.
I said, because you need tolook the part.
(14:41):
You look the part of.
Yeah, I can't see your hands.
They better be callous, becauseI'm expecting you know how to
do this.
I said, but on the flip side, Idon't expect you to be wearing
a polo shirt or a button-downshirt with long sleeves and
wearing your loafers and pullingup in a mercedes because they
go, wait a minute.
You're supposed to be aconstruction guy, but we looked
more professional than mostconstruction guys in their mind.
(15:02):
And then I make all mytechnicians.
Those guys all wear uh t-shirts, uh, while they're working
around, but everybody wearskhaki pants as well.
Same thing.
It's that image play well,dress well.
I mean dress well, play well.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You said something I want to ask the doctor about.
What do you think about?
Red is a call to action asopposed to.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know, maybe stop or blood but it does cover up
blood really well.
I'm not going to lie, I'veproven that.
That's what helped one of theguys squirt away.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I mean, it's a hazard of the job.
No, there's a lot of psychologyaround colors and things like
that, and yellows and reds arethings that are used to sort of
gain attention.
Orange is another one.
So I think it's really aboutagain the brand that you want to
portray.
But I think it's really aboutagain the brand that you want to
portray, but I think for you itis a eye-catching, like hey,
we're here to help and so I loveit.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
That's great.
All right, let's talk a littlebit more about that.
Dr Cindy, I thought we were ateam.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I'm sorry, we'll come back later Everest, we'll get
through the gab on, All right.
So you've obviously talked alot about sales.
In fact, we didn't reallycredential her.
I mean, she actually goes allthe way around the world
teaching people how to sell.
So what are the things you findthat people need the most help
(16:18):
with in selling themselves andselling?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
what they're doing?
Oh, great question.
The first thing is, when you'reselling yourself, you've got to
be super intentional aroundwhat you're putting out into the
world and it's got to beconsistent.
And I find a lot of people havesort of brands in conflict with
one another, where you knowthere's somebody from nine to
five and then there's somebodyelse from five to nine Gives
people a difficult way of havingto file you in their brain.
(16:41):
We need to know who you are.
We want to be consistent.
We see this with celebritiesall the time, right when they
kind of go off brand and we'relike, oh, didn't think that
person was going to do that andthey're human, okay, so maybe
that was, you know, a mistake,maybe it was a branding blunder.
But I think a lot of peopledon't realize that the world is
watching 24 seven.
(17:01):
Nowadays it is social media.
You never know when somebody isgoing to be snapping a picture.
We have cameras in our pocketsand you've got to live that
brand everywhere you go.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, that's, that's right.
24, seven on the brand you knowI found too is that we've been
out and, uh, ellen, I lovenetworking.
That's how we met originally.
We always push that toeverybody.
That's a great way to get intosales is to go out and network
and talk with people.
But when you've ever foundsomebody who has like three
businesses and they come up toyou and they're giving you like
three different cards and you'retrying to figure out what the
hell they're doing, you're likeI don't even know what you do,
(17:34):
right, yeah, yeah which card areyou giving me?
are you a carpet cleaner?
Are you a publisher?
Are you a marketing specialist?
I don't know, and this is theguy I don't know.
You probably know the guy I'mthinking of so, dr cindy, just a
hypothetical situation.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
if asking for a friend, if, uh, this friend goes
to vegas and wants to have agreat time in the sports book,
does he have to stand brandthere or can he?
Can he cut loose a little bitand not care what other people
see?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It depends on what they're trying to put into the
universe, you know, andrecognizing that we may or may
not be talking about somebody Idon't know I don't either.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Hey, big daddy's in the house.
Man, when I get to vegas, baby,it's big time and I'm letting
everybody know how big it is,that's right.
Hey, you want to work with me?
We're big time baby, all right,all right, so that's staying on
.
Brand, please, she's.
She's way too professional.
Obviously, consistency.
Wow, doesn't that suck, thatshe's so professional I hate.
I hate how consistent she isstaying.
(18:34):
It's staying on brand, I know.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I keep trying to wield her brain to destroy you
and I can't.
I know it, just it won't work.
She's too consistent.
No, she is.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Right.
So you go around, you talk withcompanies.
What do people mostly ask youto come and talk to them about?
To help empower theirSalesforce?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, great question.
If they have a sales team, it'sreally working with the sales
team to help them shorten theirsales cycle, gain stickier
clients, better referrals,bigger network.
If they don't have a sales team, or if they have a sales team
but they're realizing, the otherhalf of the house, service side
, needs a little assistance too.
It's working with thenon-salespeople and that's a lot
(19:11):
of the work that we end updoing too is, you know, sales
can bring it in.
Somebody else is likely the onekeeping it, and I truly believe
every job is a sales job.
So we go in and we're helpingeverybody to recognize
everything you do is in sales.
We sort of define it as if youcan tick somebody off, if you
can make their day or if you caninfluence their opinion of your
organization, you're in sales.
(19:32):
So by definition, that'sliterally everybody that works
for you boy.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
She brought up something that really resonates
with me.
Everybody in your organizationis part of the sales process,
and I've got a friend of minewho's new in an industry and
they were just bought out byprivate equity and everything is
great, until it comes to thebilling department, and the
billing department is anightmare.
And so the product's great, theservice is, and the billing
department is a nightmare, andso the product's great, the
service is great, theinstallation's great, all of
(19:58):
that's great.
And then until it comes to themoney piece, and they're killing
repeat business.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
And that's a huge bottleneck.
And funny enough that youmentioned finance and sort of
bookkeeping area.
That's a big bottleneck that wefind in a lot of our
organizations.
We do an assessment first andwe learn kind of what's working,
what's not working, and that isone of the bottleneck areas.
Service is a bottleneck andtimely communication and then
when it gets up that food chainand billing and then sort of the
(20:27):
recap are where the stickypoints are.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
All right, this is a big one, because again, left
brain, right brain, all right.
Doc, you were in school.
How many accountants did youwork with that were good at
sales?
I mean that's, you're basicallytelling these accountants hey,
they're like hey, what do youthink your job is?
Oh, my job is to get the moneyin for the company, cause if I
don't get the money in, you guyscan't go sell more.
(20:50):
But you're saying, hey, do youget that brain to go?
Okay, by the way, you're right,I'm in sales.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I'm going to give you a good question on that, and
it's three to one, by the way.
Doc, I'm way upside down, allright, thank you All right
Answer.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I'm going to pull over everybody put the windows
up, listen turn the volume up,here we go.
So when you're talking tosomebody who's really going to
vehemently oppose the fact thatthey're in sales, you start with
the fact that reminding themthey're selling themselves
already and it's not whatthey're wanting, because that's
what's happening is, they'realready selling, but they're
selling this.
We're not going to help you,we're the ones that control all
(21:26):
the beans.
You can't do this.
It's like, hey, you want thesales team to turn in their
expense reports faster?
Maybe don't be a jerk.
Maybe you know you want theclients to actually be able to
get you the information that youneed so that you can turn the
billing around.
How are you asking?
How are you requesting theirpartnership?
How are you asking for theinformation?
(21:46):
How are you communicating?
It's like IT.
It is one of my favorites,because I always say, well,
we're not in sales and I go oh,you are the most critical point
of sales because you're.
When everything broke down, soyou got to sell these people on
the fact that they're not idiotsbecause, yes, I already
restarted my computer, you gotto sell them on the fact that
you're here to help and youliterally deal with crises every
(22:08):
day.
So what are you putting outthere?
Are you truly selling what youmean to be selling?
And that's where you start toshift their mindset and get
their buy-in so that they canrecognize it makes their life
easier if they approach it froma sales lens.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
What a great perspective.
Turn that lens around, isyou're already selling?
No, I'm not, exactly You'reanti-selling bro.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Whether you like it or not, you're selling.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
You want to sell to make your job easier?
Yeah, I love that.
You know, helping people justkind of put the lens back on
themselves, that's.
That's a great line that Ithink will help a lot of people
with that.
The IT people you're right,they should look at themselves
as heroes, not the oh my God, Igot another picnic.
You've ever heard of that one?
No, oh yeah, all right.
I got another picnic.
You've ever heard of that one?
No, oh yeah, all right.
I got to tell you my picnicstory.
(22:55):
So we were implementing a callcenter years ago when I was in
consulting before I got intobanking, and we implemented a
very sophisticated call centerin the late 90s that did a
computer pop and integration,and so it was pretty complicated
, right.
But again, at the end of theday, it comes down to a CSR or
somebody taking the phone call.
And it comes down to a CSR orsomebody taking the phone call
(23:18):
and they, if we implemented thesystem, you'd have to run around
this, the, the facility, youknow a hundred people, I mean
just think of see a cubes.
And I'm running around with myteam, I'm part of the team, and
you come over and you find outwhat the problem is and you go
yeah, I'm here, yep, we got itfigured out, yeah, it's just a
picnic, so we're just just gonnahave a good old time with it
(23:39):
and we'll get it all figured out.
And because you can't piss offthe csr and say the problem's in
chair, not in computer, sothat's a picnic.
So there you go.
We kept them happy because youhad to keep these people really
happy, because they were alwaysthey were.
It was a call center forfinancial management, your money
.
So all right, all right, doc,so you're back, you're helping
companies realign, getthemselves into sales, and you
are helping a lot of thesepeople in the back office, not
(24:01):
so much in the front sales line.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
We do the front sales too.
It just kind of depends.
But a lot of the clients thatcome to us, their sales team is
doing fine.
They're losing the sale on theback end.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
So they come to us to help stop.
That's got to be a big aha fora lot of companies, cause I
would assume most people justassume, okay, I need to, you
know, get a higher conversionrate or something like that.
More leads, more prospects thatpart of the funnel.
But you're talking a lot moreabout the rest of the sales
process that they don't evenrealize is part of the sales
process, and especially when itcomes to repeat referral sales
as well process, and especiallywhen it comes to repeat referral
sales as well.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Oh yeah, she talked, she talked.
You know again how much does itcost to acquire a customer, how
much does it cost to keep acustomer, and in my business, 40
of my business is repeatcustomers there you go.
So that's why I, you know, I Idid the presentation for nary
called customer services sales.
I just didn't.
I did it more like on a gradelevel uh, grade school level as
opposed to doc here.
But I love what you're sayingabout that.
But how do you get, how docompanies come to that
(25:00):
realization?
Aha, it's not my sales team,it's the other guys that need
help with that.
That's gotta be a hard sell onyour part to get them to go.
Yeah, we have the problem.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It is to a degree, but we're we're a consulting
company, so we go in and weassess the organization first,
so we do confidential one-on-oneinterviews with depending on
how big the company is.
We just did one for a 3000person company and we did about
200 interviews and in that weliterally are finding out what's
working, what's not working.
And I'll give you a quick story.
So there was a title insurancecompany you guys are in real
(25:30):
estate, so you know that worldand we found out that they had a
really productive sales team.
But what was ending uphappening is they were sneaking
out the back door, so they werebringing in something like 60
new customers a month.
They were losing like 62.
And so they couldn't figure outwhy they kept staying even.
And I said, well, let's look atthis, let's look at the math,
let's figure this out.
(25:52):
And what we were realizing isthey were really just treading
water at that point and we hadto figure out why people were
leaving.
And so we started looking at it, we started looking at reviews,
we really dug deep and itwasn't that sales wasn't doing a
great job, they were, but theywere selling what I would call a
transaction ship.
Just give me one.
Just try us one time.
Just give me a bone, just giveus one, give me one.
(26:15):
Just try us one time.
Just give me a bone, just giveus one.
I gave you one.
Okay, is that really what youwant?
So there was no alliance with areal estate agent sending the
business.
On the flip side of that, theescrow teams were looking at
this going well, alan doesn'twork with us, alan works with
so-and-so down the street.
He's not our client.
Yeah, that's called a prospect,so let's maybe invite him to
(26:36):
stay.
And so it was sort of bothsides of the house really needed
to step up a little bitdifferently to be able to not
only bring those clients andmake them feel welcome, but keep
them there and grow them.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah that, throw me a bone.
It actually works.
But then you better do a greatjob with that one bone.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, I love that line transactionship, not
relationship.
Yeah, so good.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Well it is.
It's like you're only as goodas the last transaction.
And it's funny, because whenyou ask them to throw you a bone
, think about even what you'reasking.
Like seasoned salesprofessionals, mess this one up,
in my opinion too, becausethey'll ask for an order, a try,
versus a partnership.
I don't want you to try us once.
I want you to try us, I wantyou to love us and I want you to
tell everybody else about us.
(27:19):
So you're still looking for arelationship with that person.
Ask for what you want, takewhat you can get.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, it's an opportunity to prove yourself as
a way.
I always looked at that.
You know, try me once so I canprove myself, because I
understand that you're not goingto sign up for a lifelong
relationship.
But once you see how we do it,then you're going to be much
more inclined to do so.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, but you, you're coming at it from the no like
and trust and know you're goingto deliver on it.
I get, I get what's going on.
If you're just out there justbringing them in, you're
bringing them in the gate andyou're taking their tiki and
you're hitting the road andyou're just the sales hawker at
the circus tent, you don't knowwhat's going on inside the
circus tent.
That's right.
The monkeys are in there goingcrazy.
Where's the bearded lady?
(28:02):
Where's the bearded lady?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I thought you said man, what a picture you're
painting on this one.
Well again, sales problems.
You mentioned three bottlenecks.
One we touched on was theaccounting side of things.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
What were the other two again?
So the service side and thensort of the follow-up after the
whole transaction.
If they are, you know how doyou keep the customer engaged
after they're finished withtheir whatever service or
product that you bought?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
what are some best practices on that, on the
retention and following up?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
great question so first of all, the.
The challenge is you actuallyhave to recognize that the
retention begins at the verybeginning of the partnership.
And this is another piece whereI find that a lot of even
seasoned sales pros mess up isto look to get married.
Here.
We're going to wow you.
This first date's going to beamazing, but I'm telling you
(28:59):
this is going to be where youwant to be.
So it's setting that stage.
The second part of it is throughthe whatever experiences for
the customer making sure they'rebeing seen, felt and heard.
They need to be truly seen.
What do they need?
Are we understanding that theybe truly seen?
What do they need?
Are we understanding that theyneed to feel like they belong
there and they need to be heardwith regard to what their needs
(29:20):
are.
They're being unmet, whateverthat is.
And then the last piece is oncethe transaction is over, what is
your sort of touch points?
To stay in front of them, andthis is where a lot of companies
end up not realizing they'recreating transaction ships.
They have no way to keep themcoming back.
They have no way to stay intouch with them.
So that's why they get onmailing lists and things like
that, but have you asked them tocome back?
(29:41):
Did you ask them to send you areferral If they had a great
experience?
Did you ask for that Googlereview so you can continue
online?
Did you ask them to follow youonline?
There's a lot of ways to stayin touch with customers where
they're not really in your house, but they're at least in your
ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
So, wow, this is you got one.
Yeah, oh boy, then I'm going tohold mine back.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
No, we've been doing this podcast.
How long, chris?
Three and a half years, yeah,and we love referrals and we
can't figure out a way otherthan just natural and organic.
And you know, just asking forthem, is there such a thing as
any kind of a referral system orprogram that actually works?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I'd be curious to know how you're asking for
referrals.
So how do you do it now?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Well me, I usually beg, I plead.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Do you cry?
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I do, I can actually I'd have one drop that can come
out of my eye.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
More tears?
No, how do we do?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
it.
You know what we?
We don't ask.
I don't actually go for the askand the referrals.
Now again with our, with ourcustomer base, what we do.
I've got 17,000 people in myemail database, so we email out
information every once a monthand it's a starts with a video
for me a little bit about thehome, a little bit about the
home, a little bit about thisand not asking, but also
(30:57):
explaining hey, we've gothandyman for a day, but we never
asked for that referral.
And um, but back to back to yourpoint.
I would tell you we tried this.
I said, hey, look, if you referme to your friend, I'll take 25
off or I'll give you a 25 giftcard.
Backfired on me, they said,well, I don't want the money,
just do my, do my friend rightand give them the 25 bucks.
That's where I found it keptblowing up on me.
(31:17):
And then I've had othercontractors who refer a lot of
smaller jobs to us say, hey, weneed to get a kickback.
I'm like all right, you have areferral system.
What do you want me to do?
Yeah, I want to get sevenpercent of every job you do.
I'm like what do you think I'mmaking, bro?
I mean it's you want my wholenet.
I'm like that ain't happening.
So yeah, I did.
(31:38):
To Alan's point I have notfound a good one yet that if
implemented works other thanbeing authentic, where people
just go, man, I want my friendto work with this great company.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
And that's actually the best way to do it, but you
do have to ask and you have tocontinue to ask, because the
problem is, if you ask at theend of the job, they may not
have anybody in mind that has aneed.
They may not have anyone thatthey can come up with like at
this moment that needs thehandyman.
That's where your, yournewsletter comes in, though.
I think that's really powerful.
You stay in front of them, butis there an ask in the
newsletter?
(32:09):
That's another place.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
How often do we keep in touch?
I was going to be rude andstart writing that down, but I'm
like I can't do that.
All right, that's I.
Uh, I'm telling cindy right now, when you listen to this,
remind me we need to do the askin the next newsletter?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
yeah, I love that.
So what would you ask people?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
want to help you people want to help you yeah
like, like, listen to thispodcast, man, if you like.
If you like this thing.
Now this is how it sounds.
Uh, let me know if this soundsdesperate.
Man, can you just tell somebodyelse about us?
We should be up as big assmartless.
We should be as big as rogerfor the love of god but, can you
help a brother?
Oh man, come on please cry morewas that a little?
(32:48):
Was that a little too whiny?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I, I, you know, I kind of like the tears.
I think I mean they work.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
So you know, I say go for it but, but I think, put
the food on my kid's table.
I've done that one.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, well, there you go, that one too.
You know my kids are gonnastarve, but I think that it's
really about being authenticabout their experience and
making sure that you're honoringwhatever that was.
Getting that honest feedback,hey, how was this?
Like?
Did we do everything you neededus to do?
Yeah, we loved working with youtoo, cause you're not a psycho.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Like do you?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
have any non-psycho neighbors that you can recommend
?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I like that line a lot.
You know what actually.
That's how I asked.
You know, the problem is yournext book.
Is that you know now?
Because when I first started mybusiness, my big aha moment
which is what I put in my bookwas that I was for the first
time in my entire life I was ina retail business.
I had been either in a machineshop, in engineering, in
consulting or working in banking, but this is the first time I
(33:39):
was working with the generalpublic.
And you think your neighborsare normal, man brother, I'm
going to tell you, if you lookaround and you say all my
neighbors are normal, I'mtelling you one of the three,
you isn't.
And if you're looking andsaying those two are normal,
it's probably you.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah, you're the crazy one,dude.
You're the crazy uncle.
You're the one I do not want togo into your house because
you're nuts, psycho, always one.
It took a negative.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Let's go positive, all right you're running all the
emotions today.
Oh boy, I'm crying.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I'm angry.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I know it's what all your therapists you keep holding
.
I know we got to give him abelly laugh before the episode
is over all of the emotions.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
That's a good one.
Yeah right, thank you, doc.
I'd see you're welcome.
Oh, my god.
Oh, where was I going?
I?
I had another big question.
I was gonna ask you, um, andnow I completely lost it.
Hmm, go figure, hummingbird,all right, let's talk about your
book, and then I'll remember.
So you got a book, you got acouple books, you got books that
are actually not even inenglish so new york times
best-selling books, how aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
yeah, am I feeling a little less than yeah I do,
because I do like the fact thatyou know he's always rubbing in
that usually our guest has abook, chris has a book, alan
doesn't have a book.
But I'm like you know, if I'mnot gonna have a book, that's
okay, because she has a book.
Alan doesn't have a book, butI'm like you know, if I'm not
going to have a book, that'sokay Because she has a New York
times bestselling book.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
So we don't even bring up the fact that I wrote a
book.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
All right doc.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
How can we find your book?
What are they it does talkabout?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
it.
Uh, the first book was calledevery job is a sales job, but
it's literally the book I wishsomebody had given me when I was
probably 18.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
It's the book, I didn't learn.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, and and you know it's funny I have three
degrees in communication fromamazing school and I didn't get
taught what was in that book.
So I think we really need to tohelp people to learn that sales
is not just a business skill,it's a life skill.
So that was the first book, andthen the second book is sell
yourself, and it's aboutpersonal branding and
recognizing that you're sellingyourself before you sell
(35:36):
anything, and your reputationwhich we would have called it
back when we were younger, nowit's called personal brand is
really yours to write, and it'salso yours to lose, and
recognizing that everything youdo and, quite frankly,
everything you don't do isaffecting people's perception of
that.
So craft it the way that youwant to, sort of like your mom's
(35:57):
advice dress for the job youwant.
Craft yourself for the brandthat you want.
Make sure that you'rereinforcing that out there and
being authentic and y'all arefrom the South side, y'all
understand this.
Don't get a little big for yourbritches, right?
You got to be you.
You got to be authentic everysingle day and every interaction
.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Yeah, authenticity, I think, is big.
That's one of the biggestthings we push in our sales
process is that I'm going togive you all the lines.
I'm going to do this and youknow we have a hard job in our
case because you've got to beestimator and salesperson all at
the same time and again you gotto use your.
You got to use the detail partof your brain and then you also
use the sales part.
But I, like I can tell you howI do it.
But you got to be you and likethe current guy I'm training is
(36:37):
a very straight dude.
He just doesn't do the sarcasmand humor that I do, like if
somebody says something, they'relike, hey, can you fit around
there?
I'm like I'm not that fat yet,uh, you know.
But he can't do that.
So I'm like you, you got to beyou, you gotta, you gotta.
And so I'm trying to figure outlines he can use that will help
him.
But you know they can't befunny off, because I I'll never
(36:58):
forget I tried to use a line oneof my sales guys did with a
customer because I can be funny,but I can't be this funny and
the guy says something and myother sales guys have said
sometimes you've got to put yourbig boy pants on and saddle up
and ride.
So I said sometimes you got toput your big boy pants up and
settle out and ride.
And he looked at me and I lookback and it was one of those
things, like you know, again dothe old RCA Victor dog right.
(37:19):
We both did this and I said Iapologize.
I said I was trying to use asales line that one of my guys
taught me.
I said I just don't have it.
He goes yeah, don't ever usethat one again.
I ended up getting the jobbecause I was off.
I said look, you're authentic Iwas.
I was like, let me back up.
You know, right, I'm a generalcontractor.
I'm telling you you got options.
You can do it this way or thatway, but my recommendation is to
(37:40):
do it the more expensive waybecause I think it'll come back
and bite you.
I think you should try it again.
That was the best I challengedyou.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Look to me and I looked at him and I went.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's not statistically relevant.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
You need at least five.
Do I do?
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Sometimes you got to put your big boy bridges on
saddle up and ride.
I just didn't have that in me.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
I just have images of the movie Tommy Boy when he was
trying to use the phrase.
And it's like the same kind ofthing.
It's got to be your bull, solike there you go.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
And then at the end we actually use that one.
In fact, we actually used thatone.
In fact, we just used this insales training.
This morning, when he goes, guysays nope, he goes, all righty.
Then all right, we're done,okie dokie, okie, dokie, all
righty then great, great, greatmovie, oh my goodness but that's
a sales movie but.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
I need to videotape him, uh, when he does this, this
, uh, saddle up and ride again.
I'm gonna need to see video.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
So yeah, that could be.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
That could be your number one short that you know
what I'm gonna have to, probablycindy remind me.
We're gonna do that one.
I'm gonna play that one backout because if, if you could
have been there and seen, I mean, I'm living this vividly now,
and it's been like put your faceon when you do it I should.
Yeah, right, so that's what Iwas going to ask, doc.
All right, doc.
So you grew up in the panhandleof florida.
(38:59):
For those who don't know thepanhandle of florida or florida
in general, if you're acontractor from florida, it's
not how.
If you lifted your truck, it'sjust how many inches you lifted
your truck.
So how many inches did you liftyour pickup truck before you
left?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I didn't have a truck , I had a little red car with
T-tops.
That's how long ago.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Oh, cars with T-tops.
Oh, of course you did.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
From the panhandle.
Of course I had a car withT-tops, of course you did
Smoking the bandit she's riding.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Absolutely, it's awesome, all right.
So you got two books out,obviously, and a new york times
bestseller.
So you guys, guys, we aregetting seriously for free,
you're getting a chance tolisten to how cool we are, but
we're gonna have to wrap thissucker up because we've got
probably like 10 more minutesand I definitely want to get to
those final four questions.
(39:52):
But, um, is there one more bigquestion?
What did we miss?
What is the one secret Give me?
Speaker 2 (39:59):
something.
I love that question, thoughwhat's the question I didn't ask
.
The question I didn't ask.
Yeah, what's the best question?
We didn't ask.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Great question.
The question you didn't askthat I think your audience would
really like to know is how doyou get everybody in your
organization involved in thesales process?
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Well, you fire the ones that don't right.
Chris, that's what I do.
Am I wrong?
Yes, and.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yes and yes and.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yes, and.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
But they've got to be bought in right, like that's
part of the challenge.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
They've got to be bought in, right, like that's
part of the challenge.
They got to be bought in withwhat you're doing here.
When they see the other oneswith the box in their hand
walking out the door, then theybuy in quick, right?
Chris?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
I mean, I didn't even let him go out with the box, he
just grabbed his mouse and saidI'm done.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Fear works, fear works.
I mean, use that Fear and power.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Thank yes, and All right, Doc, give us a better one
.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
But I think it's about getting them bought into
how this is going to help them.
At the end of the day and Ithink that's the part we forget
is the mandate is given,everybody's going to do this,
and that's something we tell ourclients all the time.
They'll say well, this is amandatory meeting.
Never say that.
Never say that, because thatmeans you've taken completely
away my human choice.
Never say that, because thatmeans you've taken completely
(41:16):
away my human choice.
What you want to do is givepeople options, help them to see
there is an easier path to dothis.
If you adopt this, there is jobsecurity.
If you start to do these things, you will have greater team
members that you can lean on,because we will have capacity to
hire.
There are lots of ways to helpthem to see how this is going to
benefit them.
At the end of the day and Ithink a lot of leaders skip that
(41:37):
they just sort of throw out themandate or they'll give the
goal and say, okay, well,everybody go do it, do they know
how.
And then you have to give themsupport.
You have to give them help andcoaching and training on it as
well, but the way to do it isget them to see why this is
going to help them first, andthen it helps the company.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Amen, that is awesome .
I love that one Cause I dotraining with my uh, my entire
office, uh, we get together, uheverybody, every other Wednesday
and I had one guy and I've hadmultiple guys over the years
come up and say hey, you don'tpay me for the training.
I said you want 20 bucks forthat hour.
You can, I said, but if you'renot catching what I'm putting
down, I said you're missing outon 500 bucks this month, this
week alone.
(42:17):
I'm cause I'm teaching you howto get add on sales.
I'm teaching you how to get abetter transaction.
I'm teaching you how to getinto a transaction with a
customer, make it happen and getout of there and get a tip, get
a review, which I actually payyou for.
I'm like, if that's what you'rethinking the whole time you're
in training, and then on theflip side the positive side of
this is, I've had some guys sayyou know what?
Um I?
I actually start to lookforward to that training.
(42:39):
I didn't believe it in thebeginning, but now I get what
you're, what you're doing, andit's helped me and I've been
able to do great things for myfamily.
So I'd love hearing that.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Wow, love that.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
All right, doc, we all need to figure out how to
find you.
So how do we find you?
And let's get into those finalfour questions.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Excellent.
So I can be found at drcindycom, d-r-c-i-n-d-ycom or at 1ST
Lady of Sales, first Lady ofSales, on all the different
platforms andorangeleafconsultingcom
orangeleafacademycom.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
We'll put those all in the show notes.
We're going to do all that.
Now, let's get into it, shallwe?
Let's do it All right.
What is the favorite book youwould refer to our audience that
you didn't write?
That's right, and it doesn'thave to be a bestseller.
Disclaimer Come on.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So the book that I used to use when I was a college
professor, that I used forinterpersonal communication, was
how to Win Friends and Inf.
It's an oldie but a goodie andI think it should be required
reading for adulting.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
So hands down.
We don't use mandatory.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
No, it's going to make your life better.
We're going to make your lifebetter.
That was a test the doctor gaveus right there.
Yeah, that's good, we werelistening, I was listening, I'm
opting in.
I'm opting in.
Yes, please, yes, please.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
All right, the favorite feature of your home,
my balcony.
Actually, all right, because goahead, lay it out.
I can see the transamericabuilding, it's because you're in
san francisco on the hill.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
That's looking awesome.
We're in a great city to be in.
I know it's getting some badpress but uh, but people who
live there are like dude wrong.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, I don't go by that area anyway, so it doesn't
matter it's funny you say thatliterally everybody's like, oh
my gosh, are you guys stillthere?
I'm like y'all know me, I'mkind of prissy, like I wouldn't
be here if it was what the newsis showing all right, awesome,
all right.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
So you talked about this, customer service and sales
and all that.
One of the things that alan andI really pride ourselves on is
that, when it comes to customerservice, we are customer service
freaks, yeah, let's go.
All right, doc.
What is the customer servicepet peeve of yours when you're
out and you're the customer?
Speaker 1 (44:43):
having to repeat myself what say that?
Speaker 3 (44:48):
sarcasm, smart ass, don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
We're all of them gold star for both, right yeah
all, all right.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Give us an example.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
So you tell one person, then you get transferred
to another person, or you gotto go tell this person the story
, then you got to go tell it tothem.
Or they say, oh, I just readyour notes.
Can you tell it to me again?
No, you're wasting my time.
These are billable hours.
I told it to one person.
That should be enough to get mea solution, and that is one of
my biggest pet peeves is havingto just repeat it excellent,
(45:19):
that's a, that is a great one.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
All right, all right.
Prissy t-tops, here we go.
We got to hear a diy nightmarestory, though, because we love
this stuff.
I just brought this thing up tosomebody else the other day and
I'm like no, I want, I wantsomething better.
He goes oh, dude, I just don'tdo much.
I'm like, dude, I can tell youlike every one of my fingers has
had a nail in it.
(45:41):
I said there are.
I mean, yeah, I know, don'tworry, they're still here.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Um, I didn't cut them yet, yet one left, um, so so
give us a DIY, because you showit to me an awful lot.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, that's right so , truth be told, I'm not much of
a diy kind of gal, but I waspretty proud of myself that I
figured out how to resurface thebathroom cabinets.
And my husband was out of townand I you know you can find
anything on youtube and thehardware store you find the guy
that looks like he knows whathe's doing and then he'll help
you.
So I uh, I them all all thedifferent cabinet parts off, got
(46:17):
everything done.
This was a long time ago.
Not proud of this, but I didn'thave like an electric
screwdriver, so I was literallydoing this with it, couldn't
figure out which hinge went withwhich one, couldn't get the
doors back on the right ways, soended up having to call
(46:38):
somebody to come and help me atthe very end who bought his
magic electric screwdriver anddid what took me 45 minutes in
like five minutes.
So, a little embarrassed by that, but hey, it's a true story.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
That's a little one, but that's a big one.
People don't realize that one.
So sometimes you get in thereand you start deconstructing
everything.
You're like you know what?
I'm going to change out my ownoutlet, I can do that.
And you go in there and it's athree-way and they're like oh, I
did that.
Um all here.
Here's the thing I would telleverybody always take a picture
of it with your phone before youget started in today's world
and then don't be afraid toactually go ahead and put some
(47:13):
numbers on things.
It's okay, you can tape it,because you don't know how it
goes together.
And uh, that's, that'sdefinitely a great lesson.
And that's what happened to youwith your hinges and those
cabinet doors.
That's amazing.
Yep, that's funny.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
It's a good one.
Funny.
You say that he actually askedme he goes.
Did you number them?
No, the youtube video did nottell me to number them uh, this
is so well, I love zoom um.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
It says I raised my hand, uh, to talk.
I'm like I don't.
I don't raise my hand to talk,I just talk, baby.
All right, everybody, you justwent to graduate school, so go
get your caps on graduationseason.
Move that tassel over to theright side, I would.
I don't even know, that doesn'tmatter.
What was it, doc?
You did it a couple times I'mtrying to remember.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Oh, from the left to the right, you've done it,
you've graduated.
Go put some of this.
I don't even know, it doesn'tmatter.
What was it, doc?
Speaker 3 (47:56):
You did it a couple times I'm trying to remember oh
yep, left side, right side, moveit from the left to the right.
You've done it, you'vegraduated.
Go, put some of this stuff inaction.
Go back and re-listen to it.
My challenge to you is beforeyou get to that next episode,
try something.
Always be selling yourself.
Doc this with some of yourfolks.
Share this with other peopletoo.
Let them know, follow us, giveus a share, put your big white
britches on, chris, and let's goout and saddle up and ride.
(48:19):
We're out of here, Cheerseverybody, Thank you for
listening to this episode of theSmall Business Safari.
Remember your positive attitudewill help you achieve that
higher altitude you're lookingfor in the wild world of small
business ownership.
And until next time, make it agreat day.
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