December 2, 2025 • 56 mins
What happens when a regulatory attorney trades Wall Street stress for barber-chair swagger? Jessica shows how instinct, culture, and system design built a luxury grooming brand that outlasted the copycats.
Summary:
Jessica, founder of Mad Men Barbershop, shares how she turned gut calls, culture, and brand discipline into a multi-location grooming experience that grew stronger through competition and COVID. We unpack instinct-based decision-making, the split between creative vision and operational discipline, scaling culture across shops, and how social media keeps both clients and staff accountable. Jessica also opens up about writing Pivot And Slay and Selfish Is A Superpower, and speaks candidly about ambition, parenting, identity, and the practical hiring and vibe-setting tactics that keep her team aligned. This episode is all about building a lifestyle brand that stands the test of time—no matter who tries to copy it.
🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@TheSmallBusinessSafari
💡 GOLD NUGGETS
• Founding Mad Men Barbershop as a lifestyle brand, not a commodity
• Why instinct often beats perfect plans in early entrepreneurship
• How Jessica handled copycats—and why doubling down on culture works
• COVID shutdown survival decisions and reopening timing
• Scaling vibe, expectations, and accountability across multiple locations
• Writing Pivot And Slay and Selfish Is A Superpower
• How ambitious women navigate identity, parenting, and business growth
• Hiring, training, and culture-setting that keeps standards high
🔗 Guest Links
• Website: https://pivotandslay.com
https://www.madmenbarbershop.com
• Instagram: @pivotandslay
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/thejessicadennehy-7b629a201
• Books: Pivot And Slay & Selfish Is A Superpower (Amazon)
🌍 Follow The Small Business Safari
• Instagram | @smallbusinesssafaripodcast
• LinkedIn | linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia
• Website | https://chrislalomia.com
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
So you said something really important.
The difference between you andyour competition is you it's the
ownership and it's your culturethat you create.
How when you go from twolocations where it's manual
basketball reference, man toman, and then suddenly you've
got four locations and it'szone.
I mean you can't be in all fourplaces at once.
(00:21):
How do you make sure that whatmade you special and made the
customers stay with you insteadof going to these fakes?
How do you how do you make thathappen?
SPEAKER_05 (00:30):
I'm already in zone defense over here.
I'm a football fan, so Iunderstand the football-wise,
but I'm already in zone defensebecause my business partner
lives in upstate New York, whichis about five hours away.
So I'm already here with both ofthese shops on my radar.
Um, and so I think adding moreis definitely going to be
(00:51):
stressful and different.
And so I'll have to report backto you on how that goes.
But right now, um, how I managethat, and it's funny because
someone told me the other daythat I'm like a duck, that I
look so calm on the on the topside, but underneath I'm like
this with my feet going, right?
And I think that's the perfectanalogy for business ownership
(01:11):
because it looks like I'm neverworking because I'm like, I have
a lot of freedom in how I canstructure my day.
I'm not at the shops all thetime.
One's open 13 years, one's openeight years.
They're very, very established.
My they run very like well-oiledmachines without me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help
guide you to avoid those traps,pitfalls, and dangers that lurk
when navigating the wild worldof small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggets ofinformation and invite guests to
help accelerate your extent tothat mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there, and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
(01:48):
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through the
safari.
Alan, I'm vibing, baby.
I'm telling you what, man, thisis gonna be an awesome episode.
(02:09):
Um, I am a fanboy of our guest,and uh she is a vibe.
She is not just a person, she'snot just a business owner, she's
a vibe.
You've actually used the wordstock.
And I'm wondering, do we need totalk restraining more?
Well, we're the good news istoday we're zooming.
So I think I've got the uh therequired between us and the fact
that she was a lawyer beforeprobably give me a deep chip
(02:30):
anyway.
But uh before we do that, Alan,we got to talk about what?
Me, of course.
All right, so I was up inChicago, right?
What should we talk about?
Right, up in Chicago doing mynarry thing, right?
Uh, because you're thepresident.
I'm president here in Atlantaand on the national court, thank
you.
Um and I went and I got to gracethe Milwaukee home show.
So I went up to Chicago, didthat, and then I I drove up to
(02:52):
Milwaukee to see their homeshow.
Totally crazy.
I had such a blast seeing howthese guys pulled off a home
show in a in a smaller marketthan Atlanta.
Um, but they did a really goodjob, and I had a lot of fun
because I get to go in there andthey went, Oh, you're on the
national board.
So everybody wanted to talk tome.
I just the way you like it.
I did.
So I I brought out the I broughtout the crown, I brought out the
(03:13):
scepter, I did ring.
I did, I got to bring outbecause Catholic, you know, the
the in the you know, Catholicguy, Chicago, Pope.
I said, you know, I'm close.
Uh I'm Catholic.
SPEAKER_00 (03:25):
You're Pope adjacent.
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
Jason, exactly right.
So, you know what was coolthough, is you get to see people
in your industry doing things indifferent markets, and it really
uh opens your eyes for what youcan do in your market.
And I think getting thatperspective and bringing it back
to what you do and how you dothings is a super cool thing.
And right on the heels of that,I had told somebody, I said I
would never do a home show.
(03:48):
I was just going to go there.
And lo and behold, just guesswhat my buddy Alan does is he
sends me to an Amway meeting.
Um, if you've ever been to oneof those, that's where they am
attack you and tell you you'regonna drink the Kool-Aid and do
it.
But in this case, it was ourlocal chamber here outside of
Atlanta in Johns Creek, whereAlan said, Hey, I just want you
to talk to these guys becausethey want to start a home show.
(04:08):
And he didn't tell me that untilI got there.
I did too.
Are you sure about that?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
You you know, I told you I go.
Are you sure about that?
Yes.
And I said, I know the guy andpartners, right?
Chisp, yeah.
Never listen.
You're just sitting therereading the paper, going,
uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05 (04:24):
It's like a marriage.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Yeah.
You're gonna have to I mightneed your therapist number.
Right.
So I I no, I told you home show,and you just started shaking
your head.
No, no, no.
They don't want to do it for it.
So I'm like, okay, they need totalk to you.
And and they were gonna buy youdrinks, and you just big daddy'd
and bought them drinks.
I did.
Felt ambushed, even though I'dalready told you.
(04:48):
I was so totally ambushed.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
And so what's going on now?
Guess what?
You went to a home show, thatwas awesome.
And guess what?
So tomorrow I'm going to do theradio, and guess what I'm going
to do now?
Is I'm going to meet the guywho's the committee chair who
goes, Great, can't wait to meetwith you, Chris.
We're going to get this thinggoing.
We're going to rock this thing.
I like, hey, just pump yourbrakes a little bit there,
Tiger.
I mean, I'm all in for 100% go,go, go, because that's what I
did.
I said, but I don't know, man.
(05:12):
We're going to have to talk alittle bit more.
He goes, No, no, no, we're goingto make this happen.
I'm like, oh shit.
So what have I done?
All right.
Let's get to our guest, shallwe?
Oh, we have a guest.
We do.
Okay.
Uh, we've referred to her alittle bit.
She is a vibe.
She is Jessica Dennehy.
She is a reformed lawyer whostarted a business, still has
the business, wrote a book.
(05:32):
Alan, have you read a book?
Yeah, they have uh big pictures.
Okay.
Doing coloring snowflakes.
All right.
No, she wrote a real book calledPivot and Slay.
Um, I have uh been following heron social media.
She's a great follower on socialmedia because you get a real
window into just the person thatis a business owner and kind of
what you do and how you do it.
(05:53):
So I am thrilled to have Jessicaon and we get a chance to kick
it around a bit.
Welcome, Jessica.
SPEAKER_05 (05:59):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
Great.
All right.
We gotta talk first.
Hang on, we gotta get into thisone.
He's so excited.
I am so excited.
I'm like, I mean, normally he'sexcited, but he's really
excited.
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
All right, why law school?
SPEAKER_05 (06:12):
Well, it feels like a whole it feels like a whole
lifetime ago, but I when I wasyounger, like 10, 11, I just
love to hear other people'sperspectives.
And so I would always challengethem and be like, I knew what I
thought about a subject, but Iwould ask someone, like, what do
you think about this?
And all those taboo categoriesof conversation that people are
(06:34):
like, oh, you can't talk about.
I'm like, no, no, I want to talkabout it because I don't want to
fight with you, but I want tounderstand your side.
And eventually I realized thatthat was a really great
characteristic to have whenyou're a lawyer.
Because if you're gonna go totrial, you need to understand
what the other person's sidewill be, what emotions they'll
play on, and how you cancounteract those.
(06:55):
And so I just realized I'm gonnabe a great lawyer one day.
And I I ever since I was 11, Iwanted to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
So you so you listen to them so you can gut them.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (07:07):
I know what you're doing because my I like to
understand people, you know,yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
Because my son is almost the same as you, is uh,
he's always wanted to be alawyer.
So tell me what what am Isupposed to be feeling?
Because he's in he's in his oneL year finishing up his first
one at Baylor, uh, coming homein the week.
What what am I supposed to bedoing with him when he comes
back?
Is he gonna be trying toempathize with me and then gut
me?
SPEAKER_05 (07:33):
I feel like the first year of law school is the
worst year of your life.
It's just they make you have somany theoretical conversations
that when you are with aroundother people, all you tend to do
is argue with them.
So I'm just gonna give it to youstraight.
I would prepare for him to thinkhe knows everything and feel
like he's far smarter than youare.
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
I think that's good luck this Christmas.
Oh, this is gonna be a funChristmas because he's coming
home to work in a uh DA's officeabout two and a half hours away
up in the North CarolinaMountains.
So we'll see him.
SPEAKER_05 (08:04):
Oh wow.
I worked at a DA's office toowhen I was in law school.
So it's good, it's good for yourresume and good to learn that
side of things.
SPEAKER_00 (08:12):
Oh, good.
How a law did you practice?
SPEAKER_05 (08:15):
I ended up in my third year taking a securities
and regulations course, which Ihad never had any interest in
before because I truly hatenumbers.
But I don't know, I loved it somuch.
And I was going to Brooklyn Law,it's right by Wall Street, and
um, my professor worked at theNew York Stock Exchange, and she
took a liking to me and she gaveme an internship, and I worked
(08:37):
my butt off in this internship.
And when I graduated, the NewYork Stock Exchange hired me as
a regulatory attorney, and I didthat for 10 years.
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
Whoa.
Yeah, 10 years on Wall Street asan attorney.
SPEAKER_05 (08:49):
10 years on Wall Street as an attorney.
I worked so basically the stockexchange is its own regulatory
body.
So we do all of not the criminalwork, the SEC does the criminal
work and we do um the workthat's not criminal.
So we take people's licensesaway and we fine them and things
like that.
But as a lawyer, it was greatbecause there's not a lot of
(09:10):
opportunities to go immediatelyfrom law school and be thrown
into questioning people in adeposition or being at trial.
And this job allowed me to dothat.
And I love trial.
So it I had a lot of fun there.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Yeah, yeah, I got it.
I know.
SPEAKER_05 (09:27):
Well, you know, I I have a very bubbly personality,
and the number one compliment Iget is when someone's like, You
don't seem like a lawyer at all.
And I'm like, Thank you, becauseI don't fit in.
But I realized as a young lawyeron Wall Street, I was a woman, I
was 26, and the guys on WallStreet don't like that.
And so I learned very early onthat my greatest superpower was
(09:48):
my kindness because it made themfeel like they were in control,
even though they weren't.
And uh I got to use that to myadvantage, which was fun.
It's a little evil, but youknow, these guys were stealing
money from people, so I didn'tfeel that bad about it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:02):
I love it.
She's smiling the whole time.
She's smiling.
You know what?
She's I think she was smilingwhile she got to you, Alan.
SPEAKER_05 (10:07):
I mean, only if you do bad things.
SPEAKER_02 (10:11):
Well, we don't, yeah.
Don't do bad things, Alan,please.
For the love.
All right.
So uh you're you're working,you're killing it on law on uh
Wall Street, uh, and you decideto start a business.
Tell us how do you do that?
Because it's it's a similarstory that Alan and I have too.
He had the big daddy job atEnterprise.
I was sitting here at a reregional bank, big daddy job,
and said, screw it, we're gonnago start a business.
(10:32):
So tell us how you did that.
SPEAKER_05 (10:34):
So it wasn't my idea.
Um, I'm not gonna try to takecredit for it, but at the time I
was married and I was pregnantwith my first daughter, very,
very pregnant.
And my husband at the time wasreally unhappy in his career and
he really wanted to work forhimself.
And he said, I have this greatidea.
I was wondering what you thinkabout it.
And I really thought it was agood idea.
(10:55):
So we decided to that theperfect time would be now
because I was working full-timeand I could fund our life and we
can take this risk and still beable to like maintain our
lifestyle, which a lot ofentrepreneurs can't do.
Um, I'm not saying that it waseasy, it was still really scary
and hard, especially because Ithink we signed our first lease
(11:16):
a week before I had this baby.
Um, but that's that's how thewhole business was born.
And after I was really once Ihad my daughter and I didn't see
her a lot because I was workingso much on Wall Street, I was
really unhappy.
And that's when um we decided tomake the business bigger so that
(11:36):
we can both be in it and we canuh I can leave Wall Street.
And so that's how it allhappened.
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
So I I'm wondering what our listeners driving down
the street think that herbusiness is.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Yeah, no, I think we have to take it a little bit
longer.
Hold it, huh?
Stay at that red light for justa minute longer, guys.
Hang on.
SPEAKER_05 (11:55):
I don't think people would guess it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
I really don't know.
Not in a million years.
SPEAKER_05 (11:59):
No, no, I definitely don't look like a lawyer, but I
100% don't look like the ownerof this business.
SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
Right.
I love it.
Let's keep it.
Let's keep it.
Oh my gosh, what is this nottrue crime?
SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
It's not true crime.
SPEAKER_02 (12:10):
No, what's this?
This would be like mystery.
Yeah, that's definitely waybetter than Hotel.
Puzzles.
Yeah, love it.
So um, I you know, that'sactually similar to what Alan
and I did too.
And people always ask, it musthave been easier to make the
leap, knowing that you used toyou at least had one income
because both of our wives hadgreat jobs.
(12:30):
Uh, my wife had a super job.
I never felt that though.
I never felt like, you knowwhat, if I go out there and just
completely fail, or I'll put in30, 40 hours.
I don't feel like that.
How how did you feel?
SPEAKER_05 (14:40):
I did not feel like that either.
I was I was completely terrifiedbecause um I just bought my
house.
I just bought my first house, mystill, my still house that I
still have.
And I was about to have a baby,which I had also never done
before.
So there was nothing easy aboutalso being like, oh yeah, let's
open a business because my mylaw job is very predictable.
(15:05):
You know, I know what hours Ihave to work, I know what my
paycheck is gonna be, I know howmuch is taken out for taxes and
healthcare and blah, blah, blah.
And business ownership is theantithesis of that.
You never know what the what themoney flow is gonna be like.
You have no idea if you're gonnakill it, if you're not, if one
month's gonna suck, at the nextmonth you'll be a millionaire.
Like you just don't know.
(15:25):
And I at that point in my lifewas very risk-averse, very
methodical, very left brain,very logical.
And I was not at all preparedmentally for uh the stress of a
small business.
And I was not calm.
Me having a job didn't make mefeel any better about this.
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
You know, uh funny because uh Ellen jokes about
therapy, but I guess mosteverybody who listens most knows
that uh that I am.
Uh, and it was because of this.
I mean, um, it almost cost me mymarriage uh the same thing.
I I took a very risk-averse ladyand said, Hey, I'm just gonna
throw it all the way.
I'm quitting my job and startinga business.
She's like, wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
stop.
(16:06):
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
And she felt like I trapped her.
And uh, I, you know, it took along time and we're we're still
hanging in there, but it's umit's tough.
SPEAKER_05 (16:15):
It's hard.
I mean, I got divorced in themiddle of uh growing my
business, um, our business.
We're still business partners.
Um, and I think that it puts alot of strain on your marriage
to be business partners, ittakes a lot of strain.
You know, at that time when wefirst opened, he was the one who
was in it all the time, and Iwas still working.
And so he was obsessing aboutit, and I couldn't really
(16:38):
understand that because I wasobsessing about my
responsibilities, you know, andwe weren't on the same page with
the things that we were worryingabout, and it's hard, it's hard.
SPEAKER_00 (16:48):
So at that point when you opened the business,
was there a thought that at somepoint you would roll into it?
SPEAKER_05 (16:55):
Or no, at that moment, no.
I never thought I'd want it wasnot part of the original plan.
The plan was this would be greatfor him, it would be a great way
for him to have a creativeoutlet and to not have a boss,
which are the things that hewanted.
And I thought we would just Iwould probably just stay at
work.
But what I didn't see coming wasI held this baby in my arms and
(17:19):
I became ultra, ultra feminine.
I was like in my masculineenergy on Wall Street, you know,
and I was like, ah, kids,whatever.
I can get a I can get someone tostay with them during the day.
And then I went, I had to goback from maternity leave six
months later, and I I I didn'twant to.
I cried.
And the whole time during mymaternity leave, I had her
(17:39):
strapped on to me, you know, inthe baby carrier.
And he and I were at the shops.
We were painting them, we werelike, you know, designing them,
we were opening them, we weretrying to do advertisements on
the streets, like panning outflyers, and she was there the
whole time.
And then I was kind of like,huh, I like this.
This is kind of fun.
This is kind of exciting, right?
(18:00):
And it planted the seed forlike, if I don't want to go
back, and that's fun andexciting.
Like, maybe one day I won't haveto.
Maybe, maybe one day I can be init.
SPEAKER_00 (18:08):
And that's kind of how what she is saying is
exactly what my wife heardthrough when we had our first
baby.
She is a rock star accountant onthe partner track, the whole
nine yards.
And we have a baby, and I justI'll never forget that first day
after maternity leave, and she'sgot to drop it off at daycare.
(18:32):
I'll never forget.
SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
I know, I heard he said it.
Oh my god, you are such a man.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah, oh my god, John, I knowwhat I need to do.
John, get your gun and comeshoot it.
Yeah, because this didn't justcome back from a hunt.
SPEAKER_05 (18:45):
Not something I saw coming.
It was was the pain that causedme to leave her.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
And and I'll tell you, she struggled with it for a
long time because every day shewent to work, she felt like a
horrible mother, and every dayshe stayed home.
She felt like she was gettingdumber by the second and missing
out.
SPEAKER_05 (19:01):
Oh, I feel that.
Yeah.
That's that's why I lovebusiness ownership.
Like for the lady listeners, Isay this to my daughters all the
time.
Like, I'm so grateful for thisexperience because with this, I
get to be the crazy successfulentrepreneur that I want to be
and understand business and growas a human being in the business
(19:23):
world.
And then I still get to go downto the girls' school and
volunteer with all the moms whodon't have jobs, right?
For the book fair and thisfundraiser and that fundraiser.
And I'm around all the time fordrop-off and pickup and and
homework.
And it's like I get the best ofboth of these worlds.
And I'm super grateful for that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:43):
That is so cool.
Such a successful path.
I mean, uh being there.
And you know, that uh that'sawesome because a lot of us, uh,
you know, it struck, especiallyin the beginning, you talked
about those struggles.
And it's hard to be in themoment and see that it can
happen.
You know, people talk about thatall the time.
You know, you just got tovisualize it, you know, but do
the vision board.
You gotta do all that.
But it's another thing to sitthere at 3:30 in the morning as
(20:04):
we talk about.
I'm usually curled up on thecouch, you know, rocking back
and forth with the fetalposition, going, what the hell
did I just do to my family?
What the hell did I just do tomy family?
Because there's a lot ofpressure.
I said, Don't worry, don'tworry, man.
I'm gonna be I'm gonna supplantmy income, I'm gonna be a
millionaire.
Uh, and that was 17 years ago.
Um, still working on that.
How's it going?
(20:24):
So it's tough.
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
Uh so you uh have so many questions because once we
reveal what the business is,it's like, how how do you walk
away from, I'm assuming, apretty fat job on Wall Street?
Let's say it.
How am I gonna replace it?
SPEAKER_05 (20:39):
I mean, I think every single person in my life
thought I was completely crazy.
Like, how could you give up thisdream job that you worked your
whole life for to do this, thisto like open this business?
Like this, almost like they theymaybe thought it was beneath me
almost, which is pretty fun toshow off now how successful the
(21:01):
business is and be like, yeah,well, I make more money this way
than I did before.
So haha, suckers, and uh, I'mvolunteering with my kids a lot,
I'm on vacation a lot.
It's great, it's great.
But but I think any logicalperson would have said, This is
crazy.
It wasn't logical.
(21:21):
You know, business usually isn'tlogical.
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
It is interesting how people make assumptions, and
I'm one of them because Iremember in our early days in
the chamber and you meetsomebody, it's like, oh, I've
got a dog grooming business, oh,I've got the blah, blah, blah,
whatever the franchises are.
And you just sort of make theseassumptions and then find out
they were titans of business inthe corporate world before they
just decided to go do that.
So I could this is this isreally fun.
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
All right, let's reveal it.
Should we reveal it?
All right, no, I'm not doing it.
I don't even know what it is.
I'm kidding.
Ah, all right, Jessica.
What did you start?
SPEAKER_05 (21:53):
I started a brand of luxury barbershops.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
So you're talking to two bald guys.
Um, I don't know if you can.
SPEAKER_05 (22:03):
You could, yeah.
Hot shave.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
Very popular.
Um, I'll bet you uh luxury.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
No.
SPEAKER_05 (22:14):
We're in Long Island, New York, which is 30
minutes outside of Manhattan.
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
So you guys saw this market, you evaluated it, looked
at it.
Did you guys build a businessplan for this before you
started, or just said notjumping?
SPEAKER_05 (22:27):
Ha ha ha ha.
A business plan?
No.
We 100% did not have a plan.
We had a plan in our brain.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
So you said, you know what, instead of going to
the barbershop, like I did growup going to a barbershop,
literally, the pole in Michigan,on the side of Detroit.
Yeah.
The pole that barber was beendoing it for 150 years, go in
there, everybody's smoking theaqua velvet and cigarettes.
Exactly right.
That was my barbershopexperience.
So you go in there and they'dalways be playing cribbage,
talking about something to dowith numbers and something else
(22:59):
to do with horses.
I didn't really understand.
Um, don't worry, it's an Italianthing.
We can't talk about it.
You know what I'm saying?
I got a guide for that.
Uh, so you guys come up withthis idea for a luxury barber
shop.
So tell them how that's adifferentiator.
SPEAKER_05 (23:14):
It was his idea because uh clearly I've never
been to a barber shop before.
I owned a barbershop because I Idon't have sons and I'm a girl.
So I I don't know the experiencethat you guys have, but what he
was saying, basically describinga business like you just
described, and he's kind offancy, you know, like he likes
nice stuff.
And he was like, I don't want tosit here and get my hair cut.
(23:36):
And the only other option,again, this is 13 years ago, was
to go to a woman's salon, whichhe also didn't like.
So he's like, I want to justcreate a place, like you said,
I'm a vibe.
He wanted to create a vibe.
He wanted to create a placewhere guys feel like guys, but
there's still it's still abarber shop.
It's like, but it's relaxing,but it's elevated.
(23:57):
And so he wanted to make it likevintage, uh, serve espresso and
just be able guys to come relax,watch TV, get a shape, get a
cut.
And you know, that's what thatwas his vision.
And he brought it to life.
We didn't have a business plan.
We didn't neither of us cuthair.
I'm a lawyer.
(24:18):
He is a custom clothingdesigner.
Nope.
He is a custom clothingdesigner.
Oh, and so he's creative.
Stylist.
Oh my god.
Nope.
And and still to this day,neither of us cut hair.
Um, but I think there's beautyin that because we had to figure
it out.
Like we had to figure out whatlicenses we need, where to buy
barber chairs and supplies.
(24:39):
Like we had to kind of breakinto this world where we didn't
really know anything before.
So that was pretty scary, butalso really like it's exciting.
You guys know what I mean.
It's like the most excitingthing and also the most
terrifying thing at the sameexact time.
It's you can't explain it andit's not for everybody.
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
It is right.
I mean, again, it's hard toexplain, but you've never felt
more alive.
SPEAKER_00 (25:01):
Uh I think the time that you rode a roller coaster
that was beyond what you thoughtyou were comfortable with.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
You you as soon as you got the and you look over.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Oh, no, wait, no, just stop.
Wait, wait, no, let me.
Oh, here we go.
Holy shit.
Oh, I'm going upside down.
And then you're like, that wasawesome.
Oh my god, my shit broke mydeck.
That was so awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (25:21):
I wonder if she if they would have done a business
plan if they needed the money.
I mean, at the time, you hadthis this job.
You're an attorney, you're safe.
And if if the little extentYeah, I funded it.
SPEAKER_05 (25:34):
You I funded it so he didn't need to convince
anyone but me.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
Yeah, no, and and I and I'm not taking that lightly.
Trust me, trust me.
But you still had a hugefallback, so you didn't feel
like you needed to overplan it.
It's just like, what you know,you just kind of did it on the
go, which is interesting.
But it's interesting that he didnot know how to cut hair.
SPEAKER_05 (25:55):
So you you know, no, we took a huge leap of faith,
and frankly, I think it was myfirst lesson in trusting my gut
instinct because that, like Isaid, I was very type A back
then.
Now I'm not, but then I was.
And so for me to be sooverprotective financially of my
(26:17):
funds, of my family, my house,blah, blah, blah.
And to see him present this tome and in my gut, my heart of
hearts, be like, this is a homerun.
Just do it.
You'll figure it out later.
That is the scariest moment ofmy life, but also the first time
that I really took a leap offaith without really
(26:37):
understanding how much um, likehow we were gonna make it
happen.
We didn't, we didn't know.
And that's the first chance Itook where like I didn't really
know if it was gonna work, but Iwanted to find out.
And I think in entrepreneurship,that trusting that being able to
hear your your voice inside ofyou like that and and then trust
it blindly is a huge asset.
(27:00):
And the trick is though, youhave to know um when you're when
your excited voice is talking,when your logical voice is
talking, when your true gut istalking.
And I think over the years youjust kind of figure that out.
But that was like my firstmemory of really going all in on
something just based offinstinct.
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
So I'm assuming he had this image in his mind of
what he wanted it to look like.
But I I'm also assuming neitherof you knew how to hire
somebody.
Probably didn't know how to setpricing, none of that stuff.
I mean, was it was there amentor in the in the picture or
somebody that gave you some adno no?
SPEAKER_05 (27:37):
Nothing.
This was the two of us.
And and really at that point, itwas mostly him because remember,
we signed a lease and I had ababy the next week.
So I'm not gonna pretend like Iwas in some boardroom making
real decisions.
Like I was really trusting him.
He's great creatively, he stillis.
He's got such a great eye forthings, he's got his temperature
on the pulse, he's very good atseeing trends.
(28:00):
He shines in all of thosecategories.
And so he just put his nose tothe grindstone and he did all
those things.
He created the price list andand the vibe and um the vision
for the company and now and withadvertising, he kind of took
like a Ralph Lorentz approachwhere you know the ads are not
really about clothes, they'reabout like focusing on a
(28:23):
lifestyle of feeling and emotionthat you want the customer to
feel when they're with yourbrand.
And that is um how he reallymade a splash with the ads at
first.
And we were on a tight budget.
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Um, so he just kind of what were some of the things
that you put in place to justcreate this elevated experience?
SPEAKER_05 (28:48):
I think that at that time the movie Mad Men or the
show rather was very popular andit was kind of like a guys'
club, you know, in the 60s ofguys on uh Madison Avenue.
And he really he really wentwith that because that was
something popular in that momentand um created a feel for men
(29:11):
that when they're sitting inthere, they kind of feel like
they're transported back to thattime and that they can just kind
of like be gentlemen hanging outwith other gentlemen and
relaxing, and it's like a guy'splace, you know?
And that's really that's reallythe theme that he went with to
create the brand.
And it took off because at thatpoint there was nothing like it
(29:33):
here.
The barbershop industry wasn'tlike it is now, 13 years later.
It was very basic back then, andnow it's one of the biggest
growing, largest growingindustries at this point.
So it's we were kind of like onthe front end of that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
So there you go.
See, I'm I'm telling you, if uhif I was today and I was in my
uh late 20s, going where I amnow, I probably would have done
it.
I probably would have put it.
I would have, I would haveprobably put the hair back on.
SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
And then go but the the thing is you never the thing
about ownership of a business islike you can never just sit back
and relax.
Like it's not like he has, wehave changed the vibe of the
shop so many times over the last13 years because you have to
stay current and you have tocontinue creating.
And I think um that's kind ofwhere being partners with
(30:24):
someone it can come in handybecause if you're a solo person
starting a business, you're nowresponsible for all of the
details and all of the creativework.
And that can be really hardbecause they're completely two
different mindsets.
Um, for him, he gets to alwaysbe in that creative mindset,
which is great because he'salways pushing the business
forward with his new vision andrevamping the style so that it
(30:48):
stays interesting to people.
And he gets to do all that.
And I get to stay in more of mycomfort zone in terms of what I
am good at, which is keepingeverything in line, doing all
the financing, the day-to-daywork.
I'm a people person, he is not.
So I can deal with all of thehiring and staffing and all of
that.
So I think um having having apartner that is different than
(31:13):
you and has different attributesand strengths is really
important too.
And for the people who are outthere trying to start businesses
on their own, I can see why thatwould be an extra hurdle for
them having to take off that capand try to put the other one on.
SPEAKER_02 (31:27):
So you guys get started, you get rolling.
Um, was there ever a time whereyou went, uh-oh, this ain't
working, man?
I'm sorry, man.
Great idea.
Just no, I'm done.
We're done, we're out of here.
We gotta go.
SPEAKER_05 (31:40):
Yes, but later.
We had already opened three whenwe had that problem.
We got to three locations.
We got to three locations beforewe hit a speed bump.
Ah, well, we hit speed bumps,but basically what was happening
is after the second location,people were catching on that
this was a good.
Business idea.
And so people in the areastarted to try to replicate the
(32:01):
business.
But the thing is, it's the it'sreally the owners that make the
business successful.
So you can replicate what thebusiness looks like.
But if you don't have thededication and drive and
creativity that the people whoare running the business have,
you'll never really trulyrecreate it.
But temporarily, people will getpulled to these businesses just
(32:22):
because they're new and theyhave a similar look.
So that started to happen.
But the real big hiccup cameduring COVID because we couldn't
operate.
So those were really toughtimes.
All three were in Long Island atthe time?
No, we had two in Long Islandand then we actually opened one
in the Dominican Republic.
SPEAKER_02 (32:43):
Closer to the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_05 (32:45):
Well, all of our staff, most of our staff is
Dominican.
And so they've been, they alwaysencouraged us like to go there.
So we did.
Luckily for us, right beforeCOVID, we got um an offer to for
someone to buy it.
So thank God, because then COVIDhit like two months later, and
it was really a struggle.
Like I'm sure many peoplelistening can understand.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Oh yeah.
I so for me in my business, Iwas deemed essential.
Um, but that still didn't meanwe could not work in houses.
We had to work outside ofhouses.
Uh people would vacate thehouse, we'd come in and fix
things.
Um, so I was one of the skeletoncrew, all the remodeling just
uh, but we were in Georgia andwe opened up again back to our
governor.
Thank God he was who he was.
Thank you.
(33:26):
Yeah, because I was only downreally for from March, uh March
16th to Memorial Day.
Um wow, that's not too bad.
It wasn't uh that was and good.
And then and then uh, well, youguys had they're all employees,
right?
You guys are they 1099 yourbrothers?
They're mostly contractors,yeah.
So I had mostly employees.
So when I heard, hey, here comesthis PPP, we're the government,
(33:48):
we're here to help.
I'm like, yeah, I've heardthat's shipping for and sure
enough, I got it.
I was like, woohoo, finally,something paid off.
But uh that was able that thatallowed me to bring a bunch of
people back to work early, andthen we started cranking, and
then we just started running outof people because you couldn't
find people in the in theshortage.
But yeah, it was a weird time.
I know, right back on it's sucha wacko time, man.
(34:11):
So how long were you guys notable to cut hair or and or two
six or seven months?
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05 (34:18):
Yeah, it was hard.
And there were there were somemoments during there where we're
like, are we gonna be out?
But you know, I feel like thattime of that time of our lives
is weird for everybody.
But I think what I want to focuson in answering this question is
more of the fact that at somepoint you're going to have a
struggle, not like COVID,because hopefully we'll never
have that again.
(34:38):
But more along the lines ofpeople seeing your success and
trying to replicate that andtake away a piece of your
market.
And I think that's the scariestpart of business ownership is
when in the moment when thathappens.
Cause I remember when that washappening to us and we were
panicked.
And the funny part is all thosepeople that tried to do that,
they didn't last very long atthe end of the day.
(35:00):
Because I think you have to staystrong and double down in those
moments where you're losingbusiness.
Your instinct is, oh, we got tosave money, we got to make sure
we're cutting this corner orthat corner.
But I we did the opposite.
And I would strongly suggestthat other people do that is go
all in, like advertise againstthese people, take a stand and
(35:24):
fight the bullies because that'sthe only way you will survive.
And this is your business, thisis your livelihood, this is how
you feed your family.
Like, you can't, it's not forthe weak.
Like, you have to go out thereand fight the fight.
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
We're gonna go back to the beginning, right?
She lured people in so she couldgut them.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (35:42):
Thank you.
Excellent.
With a smile.
Uh with a smile.
Uh smiles, yeah.
She smiles.
So all right, so you sold aDominican.
Now, how many places do you havenow?
And where are they?
SPEAKER_05 (35:53):
We have two because we we were looking for another
one before COVID.
And then I don't know how it isin Atlanta, but in New York, the
prices have only just stoppedinflating recently.
So I'm actually in contractright now with two other
locations.
I'm not sure we're we'renegotiating still, you know, how
that can go.
(36:13):
We lost one back in March incontract negotiations, but we
we've been finding so many thisyear.
This is our like third one thatwe've been able to get to the
contract stage with.
So hopefully soon we'll have abunch.
SPEAKER_00 (36:27):
So you said something really important.
The difference between you andyour competition is you it's the
ownership and it's your culturethat you create.
How when you go from twolocations where it's a
basketball reference, man toman, and then suddenly you get
four locations and it's zone.
I mean, you can't be in all fourplaces at once.
(36:49):
How do you make sure that whatmade you special and made the
customers stay with you insteadof going to these fakes?
How do you how do you make thathappen?
SPEAKER_05 (36:57):
I'm already in zone defense over here.
I'm a football fan, so Iunderstand the reference
football-wise, but I'm alreadyin zone defense because my
business partner lives inupstate New York, which is about
five hours away.
So I'm already here with both ofthese shops on my radar.
Um, and so I think adding moreis definitely going to be
(37:18):
stressful and different.
And so I'll have to report backto you on how that goes.
But right now, um, how I managethat.
And it's funny because someonetold me the other day that I'm
like a duck, that I look so calmon the on the top side, but
underneath I'm like this with myfeet going, right?
And I think that's the perfectanalogy for business ownership
(37:38):
because it looks like I'm neverworking because I'm like, I have
a lot of freedom in how I canstructure my day.
I'm not at the shops all thetime.
One's open 13 years, one's openeight years.
They're very, very established.
My they run very like well-oiledmachines without me.
But I'm always working becauseI'm always talking to those
guys, to all the staff, makingsure, looking in on making sure
(38:02):
everything is good, talking tothe vendors, blah, blah, blah.
So I think it will just be moreof that.
But uh, because the other twoare so established, I think that
it might be a little bit easierat this stage to keep growing.
So then the next two, I'll haveto be there more, you know, and
make them as established as thefirst two.
And I think that's the hardestpart because you're in the
trenches in the first couple ofyears.
(38:24):
You got to be there all thetime.
You got to get the staffacclimated to the way that you
run the business, to what youwant, set the tone, build a
rapport with them, um, buildtrust, you know.
So um that part is hard and it'shard to do with multiple
locations, no doubt.
So stay tuned for how Iaccomplished that.
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (38:44):
We're gonna we're staying we're gonna stay tuned.
You're gonna have to let us knowbecause I think that's uh that's
phenomenal.
Um, so I think we're coming tothe end.
I think we got about 10, 15 moreminutes, but um, one of the
things I'm really impressed withis your social media vibe and
what you do.
And so is that a personaloutlet?
Is that a way for you?
Because um, seeing you onFacebook and doing all the stuff
(39:05):
you do, I I'm not gonna come upand get my haircut at Mad Men
barber shops in Long Islandbecause I'm in Atlanta.
So yeah, tell us why you'redoing that.
Is that part of your socialmedia?
Is it a strategy?
Is it just an outlet for you?
SPEAKER_05 (39:19):
It just kind of morphs through the years.
Like it that started duringCOVID because a lot of people
didn't have they didn't knowwhat to do with themselves in
terms of their business.
So I just started talking aboutmy business and what we were
doing, and people really likedit.
So I was like, oh, people areliking this.
I'm here not having much to do.
If I can help people, that wouldmake me feel useful in this time
(39:40):
where I can't work.
So it started out like that.
And then it just kind of becameit's not, it's not to promote
mad men per se, it's just toshow people how I live my life.
And I guess at this point, well,obviously I've I've written two
books, Pivot and Slay andSelfish is a superpower.
So I promote those books onthere.
(40:01):
But mostly I feel like it'stherapeutic for me and for the
people that follow me.
They get inspiration from theway that I live my life.
And for me, it's more of um Iguess staying accountable.
It's a good way for me to stayaccountable.
Like I'm showing people how whatthings I'm trying to do this
(40:22):
year, which motivates them,which makes me feel good.
But then it also motivates me tofollow through with all of my
goals.
So I think it's like a two-waystreet.
It like works as therapy, so soto speak, like in keeping me
accountable for things, but alsois helping other people learn
how to structure their day.
Like these little routines thatI think are so obvious, like
(40:43):
have helped me, and this is justthe way I think and live.
Other people are like, I neverthought of that.
And then it kind of makes yourealize like we all have
something useful to say.
And if we can make thoseconnections and, you know, help
people along the way, why not?
So now that's kind of what mysocial media has become is just
me sharing my life and you know,talking about what I do every
(41:05):
day and in in the business andin my personal life.
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
Chris is nodding his head, like he's totally vibing
with you.
And I'm like, there is no waythat what you're doing is so
that we can keep youaccountable.
Yo, you do not want to beaccountable for anyone.
SPEAKER_02 (41:21):
How well do I know?
She said that I was like, see,Alan, that's what I'm doing with
my social media posts.
It's like when the Falcons gottheir ass kicked on Sunday and
it took me an hour and a half toget home after that ass kicking.
I posted that all over theplace.
I never got more likes than Ihave.
Like, hey, look at us with thetrusted toolbox.
Don't be scary, don't wheel itin your house.
No, but that that one got a lotof likes because I was smoking
(41:44):
mad.
Oh my God.
SPEAKER_05 (41:46):
So it's funny.
Yeah, so it's funny because Ithink social media is weird.
Like, if you have a businessthat you can create revenue
through social media, that'sgreat.
I don't.
Um, my business, like you said,is more localized.
Um but I I feel like sometimeswhen you're just being you,
that's when the people connectwith you the most.
Whether you can monetize it ornot is a different story, but
(42:07):
I'm really not on there forthat.
SPEAKER_02 (42:10):
Me neither, Alan.
I we can't handle that.
But stop, Alan.
Please.
If we're talking to a lady,please.
I mean, she's a lawyer, she'sgonna gut you.
She's from New York.
Yeah, that worse.
Oh, yeah.
She's probably she said shedied.
SPEAKER_05 (42:23):
I didn't even register that as anything
important.
Did you see that?
I'm like, yeah, that's just aTuesday over here.
SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
Where in your spare time did you decide?
You know what?
I'm gonna write a book.
No, wait a minute, two.
SPEAKER_05 (42:35):
Yeah, I have I had a lot of emotion to process, I
think is how it started.
Again, during COVID, I had alot, I love writing.
I've written since I'm a littlegirl.
I love it so much.
It just helps me see things andconnections in my life and
understand myself.
And when I was home duringCOVID, I really needed to feel
like I was being productive.
And I thought, if all thesepeople are interested in
(42:57):
understanding my business, whydon't I just tell them like how
I did it and what I did and howit felt and all of those things.
And so I just started writingand it just poured out of me.
And during that whole process, Irealized like, if this book
didn't sell one single copy, itwas still one of the best things
I did because I saw my life outthere and I just made all these
(43:18):
connections that I hadn'tpreviously seen about who I was
and who I've become and how thattransformed and all the little
things that happened along theway that were part of that
transformation.
And then I started talking a lotafter that book about the fact
that I'm a I parent my childrenby myself because, like I said,
my ex-husband lives um upstate.
(43:38):
So I'm here with them all thetime.
And how do I balance that andbusiness ownership and um and
you know, continuing to makemyself a priority?
And so then I wrote a book aboutthat too, and it helped me see
even more parts of myself that Ihadn't understood before.
So it wasn't really about sparetime because I don't really have
(44:00):
a lot of that.
But I think for me, it was moreof like letting all of that out
of me, all the things I've beenwanting to say and just kind of
like getting it out on thepaper.
It really, it just helped megrow as a person.
And if it helps someone elsealong the way, then that's even
greater.
SPEAKER_02 (44:17):
Yeah, but say even if you don't have a book in you.
I mean, journaling, we talkedabout this, you know, is a great
technique as well.
Um, you know, uh I wrote my bookjust because I kept joking about
it, I kept joking about it, andsomebody said, Um, you know,
those sound pretty good.
I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna do it.
Um, and so uh for me, I'm not awriter.
Uh I'm an engineer twice overand uh not good at it.
(44:39):
And that's why I didn't get somehelp.
But um I agree with you becausethat pro you can process a lot
and you can also do someself-reflection.
Whatever it is for you, maybe,maybe you guys, maybe you're not
a writer, but um, finding thatthat path is definitely helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (44:54):
Who who have you found has resonated with your
book?
SPEAKER_05 (44:58):
What type of person you mean?
Yeah.
Well, I think my second book,Selfishness as a superpower,
really resonates withentrepreneurial women because
balancing, and you and you evensaid like your wives had a lot
of similar stuff to say, youknow, during the business
process.
I think it's something womendon't talk about because it
(45:19):
makes us feel weak, you know,that we don't we have this
innate drive to be a mom at thesame time as our as we're driven
to a career.
And I don't know that it'snecessarily something men can a
hundred percent understand.
And so to fit into that businessworld, we push that part of us
(45:40):
away.
And I thought it was reallyimportant to tell people like,
no, like sometimes that sucks.
Like, I didn't want to be astay-at-home mom, but I didn't
want to leave my kids andprioritize my career.
And what is what exactly doesthat make me then?
Am I a career-driven woman or amI a parent?
Why can't I be both?
How do I become both?
(46:00):
How do I continue to be a wifealong the way?
How do I continue to stayJessica Dennehy?
Like, how do you do this?
And it's like four differentparts of you trying to meld into
one human being.
And so I think the people whowomen who have businesses or
even just really high-poweredcareers really resonated with
(46:21):
that.
Um, because the the solution forme was to carve time out of my
job and my kids and my marriageto work on myself.
And I don't think that isseemingly logical when you're
like, I don't spend enough timewith my kids or at work or with
my husband.
What should I do?
Oh, take more time away to be byyourself.
That doesn't seem to make anysense.
(46:42):
But at the end of the day, ifI'm not me, how am I giving any
valuable to any of these facetsof my life?
And it took me too long tounderstand that.
So if I can shorten anyoneelse's journey and get there
faster for them, I I hope I Ihope I can do that.
That is my goal is to help themdo that um so that they don't
(47:02):
waste time like I did figuringit out.
SPEAKER_02 (47:05):
No, yeah, you know, I it's funny you say don't waste
time.
I use that line a lot, and mymentor usually says, Chris is
not wasting time if you'relearning from it, right?
As long as you're self-respectself-respect and
self-introspection to come back.
But all right, let's talk alittle bit about this because uh
they're 13 and 10.
And um uh so my wife startedtraveling a ton when my daughter
became a teenager.
(47:26):
And it was her and me.
Me and her she's 27 now.
She won.
Oh yeah, she definitely won.
It is hard raising a strong,independent will girl.
But she's 27 now, and she'scoming home uh in a couple days
as well.
So I'll see her.
Uh oh, awesome.
Yeah.
But um, as you go through that,I yeah, I uh I had to be Mr.
(47:48):
Mom doing the same thing becauseuh as I realize now I was
trapped in my wife, making herhave to travel all over the
world.
Uh India, you know, Europe, andthe whole thing.
It was up to me to you know getthe kids over where they had to
be.
And but I had the girl in uhhigh school.
So here's the good news you got,Jessica.
Um, they really don't want tosee you in high school.
Yeah.
(48:08):
So you're gonna have more timecoming soon.
What's going on?
Not kidding.
I'm sure you're gonna have abetter relationship.
But she was tough in high schooland she came around, and uh the
the problem is she's just likeme.
And I mean, that's she she'sshe's my sports lover, she's uh
very passionate.
She's going to PA school, justabout to finish up.
So um I have continued success.
(48:29):
I'm sure your daughter's gonnabe incredibly successful.
Can continued success to you asyou expand.
But we gotta go, Alan.
Thank you.
Before we do this, we've gottatalk about the final four
questions, and we're gonna pumpthese books.
Pivot and select self as asuperpower.
Number one, what's a book you'drecommend to our audience that's
not yours?
SPEAKER_05 (48:49):
The untethered soul.
It's about people who try tocontrol everything like I used
to, and how you can let go ofthat control because it's really
not control at all, because youcan't control anything.
It's really who's the author onthat?
Michael Singer.
SPEAKER_02 (49:06):
Okay.
Untethered soul.
I'm gonna bet you don't readthat.
SPEAKER_05 (49:09):
All right, it's a little woo-woo.
I'm just gonna warn you, it's alittle woo-woo.
It is.
SPEAKER_02 (49:13):
I can't do woo-woo.
I mean, I can't do woo-woo.
I mean, I watch, I watchrom-com.
Shut up, Alan.
Get back to me, please.
My God.
Alan, please stop talking.
You know what?
You're on mute now.
You're done.
You can't talk.
All right.
Is that control?
Jessica, was that?
I don't know.
A little bit.
A little bit.
Comes close.
You know, uh, we just had arecommendation to read the um
(49:34):
Never Split the Difference byChris Foss.
SPEAKER_05 (49:36):
Oh, yeah, I've read that.
SPEAKER_02 (49:37):
Not only did I I listened to it.
On what speed?
Uh 1.5.
Okay.
Uh that's the only way I can doit.
Yeah, I did.
I got well, actually, here's thedeal.
I made it a book club for mysales guys.
This book is phenomenal.
SPEAKER_05 (49:51):
That's like one of the number one sales books.
SPEAKER_02 (49:53):
Holy crap.
Oh my god, this book was likemind-melding stuff.
And so now I've got my uh mysales guys.
We just had our first twochapters this morning, and I'm
rereading the book with them,and then we all got copies of
the book, and I'm annotatingwith them and doing the whole
thing.
So I'm doing it again.
Phenomenal.
And you know, uh, it's justlistening to how he does things.
(50:14):
I look back on all the salestext.
You've redirected.
She was talking aboutuntethering and letting go.
All right, untethered.
All right, sorry.
But I was just I wasestablishing control.
Yeah, that was bad.
Oh shit.
Oh my god.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05 (50:25):
You need this book, I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_02 (50:28):
Shoot it.
Yeah.
I'm I'm actually texting mybelly books right now.
I need an emergency session.
Shit.
All right, all right, okay,let's go.
What's the favorite feature ofyour home?
SPEAKER_05 (50:38):
Ooh, I just redid my kitchen.
So I'm gonna say my kitchenbecause is that where you're
watching it right now?
Yeah, well, this is the diningroom behind me, and the
kitchen's in front of me.
SPEAKER_02 (50:46):
So what did you do to the kitchen?
Because I see the glasscabinets.
I like how you placedeverything.
Very well done.
And I like the colors.
SPEAKER_05 (50:53):
Thank you.
It used to be a galley kitchen,so I opened up the wall between
the um kitchen and the diningroom and made it like an open
concept.
But the best part is I love thecolor blue because it's very
calming.
And I saw this blue stove and Imade the whole kitchen around
the stove.
SPEAKER_02 (51:10):
Oh, very cool.
Is it a European stove or alocal?
SPEAKER_05 (51:14):
Yes, it is, and it's got the matching blue hood.
SPEAKER_02 (51:17):
So now it's my favorite feature.
You better be very proud of thatone because I love it.
They're very proud of it whenthey sell it to you.
Oh, I'm sure.
I I know I know that number.
No, that's awesome.
Okay, that's great.
All right.
You ready?
Go.
We're kind of customer servicefreaks.
Thank you.
What's a customer service petpeeve of yours when you're out
(51:39):
there and you're the customer?
SPEAKER_05 (51:40):
When I'm the customer?
Ooh, that's hard because Ireally don't like to talk to
people when I'm the customer.
SPEAKER_02 (51:47):
So you'd rather not, you'd rather have people come up
and go, ma'am, you can just typein your order and we'll come
back and give you the food.
SPEAKER_05 (51:52):
Honestly, yeah, because I I am so overstimulated
between all the barbers andhaving to service my own
customers and then coming hometo the girls that when I'm out
and about, I'm kind ofantisocial.
SPEAKER_00 (52:03):
So you're an introvert, aren't you?
SPEAKER_05 (52:05):
But no, I really am an introvert.
SPEAKER_00 (52:07):
No, no way.
She's an introvert who has to beact like an extrovert in her
business.
Correct.
SPEAKER_05 (52:11):
I get very dreamed.
In my extrovertedness.
But I could pull it off.
But so I guess um when someoneis too chatty with me as a
customer, I get frustratedbecause I'm like, please stop
talking to me.
I don't want to pretend to beinto this right now.
That was so awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (52:30):
Where I just go completely not going, thank you
for talking to me.
I go yay! I had two hours beforethis podcast.
I would not.
Yeah.
But but I was like, I had twohours before this where I ended
up getting back to the housebecause that's where we do the
podcast.
And I was supposed to have twomeetings in a row, and both of
them canceled, and I'm here atthe house by myself.
(52:50):
And when Alan showed up, I wasliterally almost falling asleep
because I was so like, oh mygod, I need to talk to people.
SPEAKER_00 (52:59):
No, it's gives me weird exact opposite.
SPEAKER_05 (53:02):
And I would be like, Oh, the house is so quiet.
I love this.
I feel so relaxed right now.
SPEAKER_02 (53:07):
Oh, you guys gotta be kidding me.
Oh no, it just drives me insane.
Maybe they'll cancel.
I hate painting.
Maybe you won't come over.
My kids even know.
They're like, uh-oh, dad's homealone.
We better call, we better texthim.
No, it can't be killed.
SPEAKER_00 (53:19):
They need what do they call it?
A mobile hanging up above these.
It's kind of bad.
I do.
unknown (53:24):
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
All right, Jessica, you you've you've said it
before.
You're a single mom, you'reworking home.
I don't want to hear aboutcontractor nightmare stories
because I live them every day.
That's what I do.
Um, I'm not a contractornightmare.
Just give me three more days.
I can do it.
Um, what is a DIY nightmarestory of yours?
SPEAKER_05 (53:41):
Did you ever any story where I'm doing it myself
is a nightmare for me.
Like, I have absolutely zerohandyman in me.
Like, I I need help, guys.
Like, I can't hardly do anythingaround the house by myself like
that.
Like, but I guess I'll say this.
My kids, who I love very dearly,begged me to decorate the house
(54:05):
outside for Christmas, which Idon't know how to do.
So I tried to hire someone, butit was so expensive.
And I was just like, you know, Idon't really want to spend this
much money on it.
It's something that's gonna beup for four weeks.
Like, I I can't do that.
So I'm a I'm a big person wholikes I spend money where I know
I'll enjoy it, even if it makesno sense to anyone else.
(54:26):
And I wouldn't enjoy thisenough.
So anyway, I go to Home Depotand I buy all the things and I'm
outside.
Now it took them 11 years to askme to do this, so I knew I had
to bring it.
I'm freaking outside and the theground is frozen and the lights
are tangled and they're notplugging in.
And I have literally my I, myivy, is it Holly, Holly plant
like completely?
(54:46):
It looks like I had 10 catsscratching me up, and I just
want to cry.
I just want to cry.
It was terrible.
It looked like a five-year-olddid it, and it took me forever,
and it wasn't even nice, andthat was a nightmare for me.
I had zero, I didn't enjoy it atall.
SPEAKER_02 (55:06):
She didn't burn anything down, she didn't flip
anything, but you know what?
I feel for her because if you'veever had a hollybush sticking
you in the back where you'retrying to do some work around
the house and die up, I mean, itis like it hit you in the exact
right spot where it's notaccurate, brother.
It's like a hundred percentneedles just sticking you to
death.
SPEAKER_00 (55:23):
Now, do the kids like it?
SPEAKER_05 (55:25):
Yeah, they loved it, they loved it.
And now, but you know what?
Not have to do it again thisyear.
I've not seen anybody again, butI learned a little bit.
I learned that not all the plugsfit each other, so I have to
plan it out beforehand.
I didn't know that, so I did thewhole thing and then they didn't
match.
I also learned that I can wearprotective gloves and stuff like
(55:46):
that when I'm outside.
And the third thing I learned isdo it on a day that it's hot
because otherwise the ground isfrozen and that makes your life
even more miserable.
SPEAKER_00 (55:55):
So usually right after Thanksgiving is a good
time.
You're right.
SPEAKER_05 (55:58):
I'm gonna apply it.
SPEAKER_00 (55:59):
I'll give you one freebie.
Have a couple extra boxes oflights.
SPEAKER_02 (56:03):
Always find the lights.
And don't even count on thesesuckers working again this year.
Yeah, that's right.
Just find me.
It's true.
SPEAKER_05 (56:08):
And also maybe have a drink before.
SPEAKER_02 (56:10):
Very Christmas cheer.
Yeah, and just the letter, whichI've done that before.
SPEAKER_01 (56:15):
So anyway, not about me.
No, Jessica.
SPEAKER_02 (56:17):
I'm untethering.
All right, Jessica, this hasbeen amazing.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
Pivot and Slade, JessicaDennehy.
We're gonna put her all in thenotes.
Uh, Mad Men Barbershops.
You're in Long Island.
Go get yourself, go treatyourself a little bit, man.
Fix it up, you know, get alittle shave here, a little tuck
there, maybe a little fryer.
Is that the name of them?
Mad Men Barbershop.
Is it really?
It is.
Oh, that's badass.
(56:37):
It is badass.
You mentioned earlier.
Mad Men Barbershop.
I thought she was to the show.
SPEAKER_05 (56:42):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (56:44):
Oh, this has been awesome.
Thank you so much.
Hey, if you didn't learnsomething, that's on you.
If you think you're a dude andyou didn't learn something off a
chick, you're wrong, brother,because you are not the smarter
sex.
We all know we're morons.
So go learn something today.
Go get better.
Let's make it a great week, andwe'll see you next week on the
podcast.
Cheers, everybody.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Small Business
Safari.
(57:04):
Remember, your positive attitudewill help you achieve that
higher altitude you're lookingfor in a wild world of small
business ownership.
Until next time, make it a greatday.
So you said something really important.
The difference between you andyour competition is you it's the
ownership and it's your culturethat you create.
How when you go from twolocations where it's manual
basketball reference, man toman, and then suddenly you've
got four locations and it'szone.
I mean you can't be in all fourplaces at once.
(00:21):
How do you make sure that whatmade you special and made the
customers stay with you insteadof going to these fakes?
How do you how do you make thathappen?
SPEAKER_05 (00:30):
I'm already in zone defense over here.
I'm a football fan, so Iunderstand the football-wise,
but I'm already in zone defensebecause my business partner
lives in upstate New York, whichis about five hours away.
So I'm already here with both ofthese shops on my radar.
Um, and so I think adding moreis definitely going to be
(00:51):
stressful and different.
And so I'll have to report backto you on how that goes.
But right now, um, how I managethat, and it's funny because
someone told me the other daythat I'm like a duck, that I
look so calm on the on the topside, but underneath I'm like
this with my feet going, right?
And I think that's the perfectanalogy for business ownership
(01:11):
because it looks like I'm neverworking because I'm like, I have
a lot of freedom in how I canstructure my day.
I'm not at the shops all thetime.
One's open 13 years, one's openeight years.
They're very, very established.
My they run very like well-oiledmachines without me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help
guide you to avoid those traps,pitfalls, and dangers that lurk
when navigating the wild worldof small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggets ofinformation and invite guests to
help accelerate your extent tothat mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there, and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
(01:48):
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through the
safari.
Alan, I'm vibing, baby.
I'm telling you what, man, thisis gonna be an awesome episode.
(02:09):
Um, I am a fanboy of our guest,and uh she is a vibe.
She is not just a person, she'snot just a business owner, she's
a vibe.
You've actually used the wordstock.
And I'm wondering, do we need totalk restraining more?
Well, we're the good news istoday we're zooming.
So I think I've got the uh therequired between us and the fact
that she was a lawyer beforeprobably give me a deep chip
(02:30):
anyway.
But uh before we do that, Alan,we got to talk about what?
Me, of course.
All right, so I was up inChicago, right?
What should we talk about?
Right, up in Chicago doing mynarry thing, right?
Uh, because you're thepresident.
I'm president here in Atlantaand on the national court, thank
you.
Um and I went and I got to gracethe Milwaukee home show.
So I went up to Chicago, didthat, and then I I drove up to
(02:52):
Milwaukee to see their homeshow.
Totally crazy.
I had such a blast seeing howthese guys pulled off a home
show in a in a smaller marketthan Atlanta.
Um, but they did a really goodjob, and I had a lot of fun
because I get to go in there andthey went, Oh, you're on the
national board.
So everybody wanted to talk tome.
I just the way you like it.
I did.
So I I brought out the I broughtout the crown, I brought out the
(03:13):
scepter, I did ring.
I did, I got to bring outbecause Catholic, you know, the
the in the you know, Catholicguy, Chicago, Pope.
I said, you know, I'm close.
Uh I'm Catholic.
SPEAKER_00 (03:25):
You're Pope adjacent.
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
Jason, exactly right.
So, you know what was coolthough, is you get to see people
in your industry doing things indifferent markets, and it really
uh opens your eyes for what youcan do in your market.
And I think getting thatperspective and bringing it back
to what you do and how you dothings is a super cool thing.
And right on the heels of that,I had told somebody, I said I
would never do a home show.
(03:48):
I was just going to go there.
And lo and behold, just guesswhat my buddy Alan does is he
sends me to an Amway meeting.
Um, if you've ever been to oneof those, that's where they am
attack you and tell you you'regonna drink the Kool-Aid and do
it.
But in this case, it was ourlocal chamber here outside of
Atlanta in Johns Creek, whereAlan said, Hey, I just want you
to talk to these guys becausethey want to start a home show.
(04:08):
And he didn't tell me that untilI got there.
I did too.
Are you sure about that?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
You you know, I told you I go.
Are you sure about that?
Yes.
And I said, I know the guy andpartners, right?
Chisp, yeah.
Never listen.
You're just sitting therereading the paper, going,
uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05 (04:24):
It's like a marriage.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Yeah.
You're gonna have to I mightneed your therapist number.
Right.
So I I no, I told you home show,and you just started shaking
your head.
No, no, no.
They don't want to do it for it.
So I'm like, okay, they need totalk to you.
And and they were gonna buy youdrinks, and you just big daddy'd
and bought them drinks.
I did.
Felt ambushed, even though I'dalready told you.
(04:48):
I was so totally ambushed.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
And so what's going on now?
Guess what?
You went to a home show, thatwas awesome.
And guess what?
So tomorrow I'm going to do theradio, and guess what I'm going
to do now?
Is I'm going to meet the guywho's the committee chair who
goes, Great, can't wait to meetwith you, Chris.
We're going to get this thinggoing.
We're going to rock this thing.
I like, hey, just pump yourbrakes a little bit there,
Tiger.
I mean, I'm all in for 100% go,go, go, because that's what I
did.
I said, but I don't know, man.
(05:12):
We're going to have to talk alittle bit more.
He goes, No, no, no, we're goingto make this happen.
I'm like, oh shit.
So what have I done?
All right.
Let's get to our guest, shallwe?
Oh, we have a guest.
We do.
Okay.
Uh, we've referred to her alittle bit.
She is a vibe.
She is Jessica Dennehy.
She is a reformed lawyer whostarted a business, still has
the business, wrote a book.
(05:32):
Alan, have you read a book?
Yeah, they have uh big pictures.
Okay.
Doing coloring snowflakes.
All right.
No, she wrote a real book calledPivot and Slay.
Um, I have uh been following heron social media.
She's a great follower on socialmedia because you get a real
window into just the person thatis a business owner and kind of
what you do and how you do it.
(05:53):
So I am thrilled to have Jessicaon and we get a chance to kick
it around a bit.
Welcome, Jessica.
SPEAKER_05 (05:59):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
Great.
All right.
We gotta talk first.
Hang on, we gotta get into thisone.
He's so excited.
I am so excited.
I'm like, I mean, normally he'sexcited, but he's really
excited.
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
All right, why law school?
SPEAKER_05 (06:12):
Well, it feels like a whole it feels like a whole
lifetime ago, but I when I wasyounger, like 10, 11, I just
love to hear other people'sperspectives.
And so I would always challengethem and be like, I knew what I
thought about a subject, but Iwould ask someone, like, what do
you think about this?
And all those taboo categoriesof conversation that people are
(06:34):
like, oh, you can't talk about.
I'm like, no, no, I want to talkabout it because I don't want to
fight with you, but I want tounderstand your side.
And eventually I realized thatthat was a really great
characteristic to have whenyou're a lawyer.
Because if you're gonna go totrial, you need to understand
what the other person's sidewill be, what emotions they'll
play on, and how you cancounteract those.
(06:55):
And so I just realized I'm gonnabe a great lawyer one day.
And I I ever since I was 11, Iwanted to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
So you so you listen to them so you can gut them.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (07:07):
I know what you're doing because my I like to
understand people, you know,yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
Because my son is almost the same as you, is uh,
he's always wanted to be alawyer.
So tell me what what am Isupposed to be feeling?
Because he's in he's in his oneL year finishing up his first
one at Baylor, uh, coming homein the week.
What what am I supposed to bedoing with him when he comes
back?
Is he gonna be trying toempathize with me and then gut
me?
SPEAKER_05 (07:33):
I feel like the first year of law school is the
worst year of your life.
It's just they make you have somany theoretical conversations
that when you are with aroundother people, all you tend to do
is argue with them.
So I'm just gonna give it to youstraight.
I would prepare for him to thinkhe knows everything and feel
like he's far smarter than youare.
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
I think that's good luck this Christmas.
Oh, this is gonna be a funChristmas because he's coming
home to work in a uh DA's officeabout two and a half hours away
up in the North CarolinaMountains.
So we'll see him.
SPEAKER_05 (08:04):
Oh wow.
I worked at a DA's office toowhen I was in law school.
So it's good, it's good for yourresume and good to learn that
side of things.
SPEAKER_00 (08:12):
Oh, good.
How a law did you practice?
SPEAKER_05 (08:15):
I ended up in my third year taking a securities
and regulations course, which Ihad never had any interest in
before because I truly hatenumbers.
But I don't know, I loved it somuch.
And I was going to Brooklyn Law,it's right by Wall Street, and
um, my professor worked at theNew York Stock Exchange, and she
took a liking to me and she gaveme an internship, and I worked
(08:37):
my butt off in this internship.
And when I graduated, the NewYork Stock Exchange hired me as
a regulatory attorney, and I didthat for 10 years.
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
Whoa.
Yeah, 10 years on Wall Street asan attorney.
SPEAKER_05 (08:49):
10 years on Wall Street as an attorney.
I worked so basically the stockexchange is its own regulatory
body.
So we do all of not the criminalwork, the SEC does the criminal
work and we do um the workthat's not criminal.
So we take people's licensesaway and we fine them and things
like that.
But as a lawyer, it was greatbecause there's not a lot of
(09:10):
opportunities to go immediatelyfrom law school and be thrown
into questioning people in adeposition or being at trial.
And this job allowed me to dothat.
And I love trial.
So it I had a lot of fun there.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Yeah, yeah, I got it.
I know.
SPEAKER_05 (09:27):
Well, you know, I I have a very bubbly personality,
and the number one compliment Iget is when someone's like, You
don't seem like a lawyer at all.
And I'm like, Thank you, becauseI don't fit in.
But I realized as a young lawyeron Wall Street, I was a woman, I
was 26, and the guys on WallStreet don't like that.
And so I learned very early onthat my greatest superpower was
(09:48):
my kindness because it made themfeel like they were in control,
even though they weren't.
And uh I got to use that to myadvantage, which was fun.
It's a little evil, but youknow, these guys were stealing
money from people, so I didn'tfeel that bad about it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:02):
I love it.
She's smiling the whole time.
She's smiling.
You know what?
She's I think she was smilingwhile she got to you, Alan.
SPEAKER_05 (10:07):
I mean, only if you do bad things.
SPEAKER_02 (10:11):
Well, we don't, yeah.
Don't do bad things, Alan,please.
For the love.
All right.
So uh you're you're working,you're killing it on law on uh
Wall Street, uh, and you decideto start a business.
Tell us how do you do that?
Because it's it's a similarstory that Alan and I have too.
He had the big daddy job atEnterprise.
I was sitting here at a reregional bank, big daddy job,
and said, screw it, we're gonnago start a business.
(10:32):
So tell us how you did that.
SPEAKER_05 (10:34):
So it wasn't my idea.
Um, I'm not gonna try to takecredit for it, but at the time I
was married and I was pregnantwith my first daughter, very,
very pregnant.
And my husband at the time wasreally unhappy in his career and
he really wanted to work forhimself.
And he said, I have this greatidea.
I was wondering what you thinkabout it.
And I really thought it was agood idea.
(10:55):
So we decided to that theperfect time would be now
because I was working full-timeand I could fund our life and we
can take this risk and still beable to like maintain our
lifestyle, which a lot ofentrepreneurs can't do.
Um, I'm not saying that it waseasy, it was still really scary
and hard, especially because Ithink we signed our first lease
(11:16):
a week before I had this baby.
Um, but that's that's how thewhole business was born.
And after I was really once Ihad my daughter and I didn't see
her a lot because I was workingso much on Wall Street, I was
really unhappy.
And that's when um we decided tomake the business bigger so that
(11:36):
we can both be in it and we canuh I can leave Wall Street.
And so that's how it allhappened.
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
So I I'm wondering what our listeners driving down
the street think that herbusiness is.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Yeah, no, I think we have to take it a little bit
longer.
Hold it, huh?
Stay at that red light for justa minute longer, guys.
Hang on.
SPEAKER_05 (11:55):
I don't think people would guess it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
I really don't know.
Not in a million years.
SPEAKER_05 (11:59):
No, no, I definitely don't look like a lawyer, but I
100% don't look like the ownerof this business.
SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
Right.
I love it.
Let's keep it.
Let's keep it.
Oh my gosh, what is this nottrue crime?
SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
It's not true crime.
SPEAKER_02 (12:10):
No, what's this?
This would be like mystery.
Yeah, that's definitely waybetter than Hotel.
Puzzles.
Yeah, love it.
So um, I you know, that'sactually similar to what Alan
and I did too.
And people always ask, it musthave been easier to make the
leap, knowing that you used toyou at least had one income
because both of our wives hadgreat jobs.
(12:30):
Uh, my wife had a super job.
I never felt that though.
I never felt like, you knowwhat, if I go out there and just
completely fail, or I'll put in30, 40 hours.
I don't feel like that.
How how did you feel?
SPEAKER_05 (14:40):
I did not feel like that either.
I was I was completely terrifiedbecause um I just bought my
house.
I just bought my first house, mystill, my still house that I
still have.
And I was about to have a baby,which I had also never done
before.
So there was nothing easy aboutalso being like, oh yeah, let's
open a business because my mylaw job is very predictable.
(15:05):
You know, I know what hours Ihave to work, I know what my
paycheck is gonna be, I know howmuch is taken out for taxes and
healthcare and blah, blah, blah.
And business ownership is theantithesis of that.
You never know what the what themoney flow is gonna be like.
You have no idea if you're gonnakill it, if you're not, if one
month's gonna suck, at the nextmonth you'll be a millionaire.
Like you just don't know.
(15:25):
And I at that point in my lifewas very risk-averse, very
methodical, very left brain,very logical.
And I was not at all preparedmentally for uh the stress of a
small business.
And I was not calm.
Me having a job didn't make mefeel any better about this.
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
You know, uh funny because uh Ellen jokes about
therapy, but I guess mosteverybody who listens most knows
that uh that I am.
Uh, and it was because of this.
I mean, um, it almost cost me mymarriage uh the same thing.
I I took a very risk-averse ladyand said, Hey, I'm just gonna
throw it all the way.
I'm quitting my job and startinga business.
She's like, wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
stop.
(16:06):
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
And she felt like I trapped her.
And uh, I, you know, it took along time and we're we're still
hanging in there, but it's umit's tough.
SPEAKER_05 (16:15):
It's hard.
I mean, I got divorced in themiddle of uh growing my
business, um, our business.
We're still business partners.
Um, and I think that it puts alot of strain on your marriage
to be business partners, ittakes a lot of strain.
You know, at that time when wefirst opened, he was the one who
was in it all the time, and Iwas still working.
And so he was obsessing aboutit, and I couldn't really
(16:38):
understand that because I wasobsessing about my
responsibilities, you know, andwe weren't on the same page with
the things that we were worryingabout, and it's hard, it's hard.
SPEAKER_00 (16:48):
So at that point when you opened the business,
was there a thought that at somepoint you would roll into it?
SPEAKER_05 (16:55):
Or no, at that moment, no.
I never thought I'd want it wasnot part of the original plan.
The plan was this would be greatfor him, it would be a great way
for him to have a creativeoutlet and to not have a boss,
which are the things that hewanted.
And I thought we would just Iwould probably just stay at
work.
But what I didn't see coming wasI held this baby in my arms and
(17:19):
I became ultra, ultra feminine.
I was like in my masculineenergy on Wall Street, you know,
and I was like, ah, kids,whatever.
I can get a I can get someone tostay with them during the day.
And then I went, I had to goback from maternity leave six
months later, and I I I didn'twant to.
I cried.
And the whole time during mymaternity leave, I had her
(17:39):
strapped on to me, you know, inthe baby carrier.
And he and I were at the shops.
We were painting them, we werelike, you know, designing them,
we were opening them, we weretrying to do advertisements on
the streets, like panning outflyers, and she was there the
whole time.
And then I was kind of like,huh, I like this.
This is kind of fun.
This is kind of exciting, right?
(18:00):
And it planted the seed forlike, if I don't want to go
back, and that's fun andexciting.
Like, maybe one day I won't haveto.
Maybe, maybe one day I can be init.
SPEAKER_00 (18:08):
And that's kind of how what she is saying is
exactly what my wife heardthrough when we had our first
baby.
She is a rock star accountant onthe partner track, the whole
nine yards.
And we have a baby, and I justI'll never forget that first day
after maternity leave, and she'sgot to drop it off at daycare.
(18:32):
I'll never forget.
SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
I know, I heard he said it.
Oh my god, you are such a man.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah, oh my god, John, I knowwhat I need to do.
John, get your gun and comeshoot it.
Yeah, because this didn't justcome back from a hunt.
SPEAKER_05 (18:45):
Not something I saw coming.
It was was the pain that causedme to leave her.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
And and I'll tell you, she struggled with it for a
long time because every day shewent to work, she felt like a
horrible mother, and every dayshe stayed home.
She felt like she was gettingdumber by the second and missing
out.
SPEAKER_05 (19:01):
Oh, I feel that.
Yeah.
That's that's why I lovebusiness ownership.
Like for the lady listeners, Isay this to my daughters all the
time.
Like, I'm so grateful for thisexperience because with this, I
get to be the crazy successfulentrepreneur that I want to be
and understand business and growas a human being in the business
(19:23):
world.
And then I still get to go downto the girls' school and
volunteer with all the moms whodon't have jobs, right?
For the book fair and thisfundraiser and that fundraiser.
And I'm around all the time fordrop-off and pickup and and
homework.
And it's like I get the best ofboth of these worlds.
And I'm super grateful for that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:43):
That is so cool.
Such a successful path.
I mean, uh being there.
And you know, that uh that'sawesome because a lot of us, uh,
you know, it struck, especiallyin the beginning, you talked
about those struggles.
And it's hard to be in themoment and see that it can
happen.
You know, people talk about thatall the time.
You know, you just got tovisualize it, you know, but do
the vision board.
You gotta do all that.
But it's another thing to sitthere at 3:30 in the morning as
(20:04):
we talk about.
I'm usually curled up on thecouch, you know, rocking back
and forth with the fetalposition, going, what the hell
did I just do to my family?
What the hell did I just do tomy family?
Because there's a lot ofpressure.
I said, Don't worry, don'tworry, man.
I'm gonna be I'm gonna supplantmy income, I'm gonna be a
millionaire.
Uh, and that was 17 years ago.
Um, still working on that.
How's it going?
(20:24):
So it's tough.
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
Uh so you uh have so many questions because once we
reveal what the business is,it's like, how how do you walk
away from, I'm assuming, apretty fat job on Wall Street?
Let's say it.
How am I gonna replace it?
SPEAKER_05 (20:39):
I mean, I think every single person in my life
thought I was completely crazy.
Like, how could you give up thisdream job that you worked your
whole life for to do this, thisto like open this business?
Like this, almost like they theymaybe thought it was beneath me
almost, which is pretty fun toshow off now how successful the
(21:01):
business is and be like, yeah,well, I make more money this way
than I did before.
So haha, suckers, and uh, I'mvolunteering with my kids a lot,
I'm on vacation a lot.
It's great, it's great.
But but I think any logicalperson would have said, This is
crazy.
It wasn't logical.
(21:21):
You know, business usually isn'tlogical.
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
It is interesting how people make assumptions, and
I'm one of them because Iremember in our early days in
the chamber and you meetsomebody, it's like, oh, I've
got a dog grooming business, oh,I've got the blah, blah, blah,
whatever the franchises are.
And you just sort of make theseassumptions and then find out
they were titans of business inthe corporate world before they
just decided to go do that.
So I could this is this isreally fun.
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
All right, let's reveal it.
Should we reveal it?
All right, no, I'm not doing it.
I don't even know what it is.
I'm kidding.
Ah, all right, Jessica.
What did you start?
SPEAKER_05 (21:53):
I started a brand of luxury barbershops.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
So you're talking to two bald guys.
Um, I don't know if you can.
SPEAKER_05 (22:03):
You could, yeah.
Hot shave.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
Very popular.
Um, I'll bet you uh luxury.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
No.
SPEAKER_05 (22:14):
We're in Long Island, New York, which is 30
minutes outside of Manhattan.
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
So you guys saw this market, you evaluated it, looked
at it.
Did you guys build a businessplan for this before you
started, or just said notjumping?
SPEAKER_05 (22:27):
Ha ha ha ha.
A business plan?
No.
We 100% did not have a plan.
We had a plan in our brain.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
So you said, you know what, instead of going to
the barbershop, like I did growup going to a barbershop,
literally, the pole in Michigan,on the side of Detroit.
Yeah.
The pole that barber was beendoing it for 150 years, go in
there, everybody's smoking theaqua velvet and cigarettes.
Exactly right.
That was my barbershopexperience.
So you go in there and they'dalways be playing cribbage,
talking about something to dowith numbers and something else
(22:59):
to do with horses.
I didn't really understand.
Um, don't worry, it's an Italianthing.
We can't talk about it.
You know what I'm saying?
I got a guide for that.
Uh, so you guys come up withthis idea for a luxury barber
shop.
So tell them how that's adifferentiator.
SPEAKER_05 (23:14):
It was his idea because uh clearly I've never
been to a barber shop before.
I owned a barbershop because I Idon't have sons and I'm a girl.
So I I don't know the experiencethat you guys have, but what he
was saying, basically describinga business like you just
described, and he's kind offancy, you know, like he likes
nice stuff.
And he was like, I don't want tosit here and get my hair cut.
(23:36):
And the only other option,again, this is 13 years ago, was
to go to a woman's salon, whichhe also didn't like.
So he's like, I want to justcreate a place, like you said,
I'm a vibe.
He wanted to create a vibe.
He wanted to create a placewhere guys feel like guys, but
there's still it's still abarber shop.
It's like, but it's relaxing,but it's elevated.
(23:57):
And so he wanted to make it likevintage, uh, serve espresso and
just be able guys to come relax,watch TV, get a shape, get a
cut.
And you know, that's what thatwas his vision.
And he brought it to life.
We didn't have a business plan.
We didn't neither of us cuthair.
I'm a lawyer.
(24:18):
He is a custom clothingdesigner.
Nope.
He is a custom clothingdesigner.
Oh, and so he's creative.
Stylist.
Oh my god.
Nope.
And and still to this day,neither of us cut hair.
Um, but I think there's beautyin that because we had to figure
it out.
Like we had to figure out whatlicenses we need, where to buy
barber chairs and supplies.
(24:39):
Like we had to kind of breakinto this world where we didn't
really know anything before.
So that was pretty scary, butalso really like it's exciting.
You guys know what I mean.
It's like the most excitingthing and also the most
terrifying thing at the sameexact time.
It's you can't explain it andit's not for everybody.
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
It is right.
I mean, again, it's hard toexplain, but you've never felt
more alive.
SPEAKER_00 (25:01):
Uh I think the time that you rode a roller coaster
that was beyond what you thoughtyou were comfortable with.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
You you as soon as you got the and you look over.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Oh, no, wait, no, just stop.
Wait, wait, no, let me.
Oh, here we go.
Holy shit.
Oh, I'm going upside down.
And then you're like, that wasawesome.
Oh my god, my shit broke mydeck.
That was so awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (25:21):
I wonder if she if they would have done a business
plan if they needed the money.
I mean, at the time, you hadthis this job.
You're an attorney, you're safe.
And if if the little extentYeah, I funded it.
SPEAKER_05 (25:34):
You I funded it so he didn't need to convince
anyone but me.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
Yeah, no, and and I and I'm not taking that lightly.
Trust me, trust me.
But you still had a hugefallback, so you didn't feel
like you needed to overplan it.
It's just like, what you know,you just kind of did it on the
go, which is interesting.
But it's interesting that he didnot know how to cut hair.
SPEAKER_05 (25:55):
So you you know, no, we took a huge leap of faith,
and frankly, I think it was myfirst lesson in trusting my gut
instinct because that, like Isaid, I was very type A back
then.
Now I'm not, but then I was.
And so for me to be sooverprotective financially of my
(26:17):
funds, of my family, my house,blah, blah, blah.
And to see him present this tome and in my gut, my heart of
hearts, be like, this is a homerun.
Just do it.
You'll figure it out later.
That is the scariest moment ofmy life, but also the first time
that I really took a leap offaith without really
(26:37):
understanding how much um, likehow we were gonna make it
happen.
We didn't, we didn't know.
And that's the first chance Itook where like I didn't really
know if it was gonna work, but Iwanted to find out.
And I think in entrepreneurship,that trusting that being able to
hear your your voice inside ofyou like that and and then trust
it blindly is a huge asset.
(27:00):
And the trick is though, youhave to know um when you're when
your excited voice is talking,when your logical voice is
talking, when your true gut istalking.
And I think over the years youjust kind of figure that out.
But that was like my firstmemory of really going all in on
something just based offinstinct.
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
So I'm assuming he had this image in his mind of
what he wanted it to look like.
But I I'm also assuming neitherof you knew how to hire
somebody.
Probably didn't know how to setpricing, none of that stuff.
I mean, was it was there amentor in the in the picture or
somebody that gave you some adno no?
SPEAKER_05 (27:37):
Nothing.
This was the two of us.
And and really at that point, itwas mostly him because remember,
we signed a lease and I had ababy the next week.
So I'm not gonna pretend like Iwas in some boardroom making
real decisions.
Like I was really trusting him.
He's great creatively, he stillis.
He's got such a great eye forthings, he's got his temperature
on the pulse, he's very good atseeing trends.
(28:00):
He shines in all of thosecategories.
And so he just put his nose tothe grindstone and he did all
those things.
He created the price list andand the vibe and um the vision
for the company and now and withadvertising, he kind of took
like a Ralph Lorentz approachwhere you know the ads are not
really about clothes, they'reabout like focusing on a
(28:23):
lifestyle of feeling and emotionthat you want the customer to
feel when they're with yourbrand.
And that is um how he reallymade a splash with the ads at
first.
And we were on a tight budget.
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Um, so he just kind of what were some of the things
that you put in place to justcreate this elevated experience?
SPEAKER_05 (28:48):
I think that at that time the movie Mad Men or the
show rather was very popular andit was kind of like a guys'
club, you know, in the 60s ofguys on uh Madison Avenue.
And he really he really wentwith that because that was
something popular in that momentand um created a feel for men
(29:11):
that when they're sitting inthere, they kind of feel like
they're transported back to thattime and that they can just kind
of like be gentlemen hanging outwith other gentlemen and
relaxing, and it's like a guy'splace, you know?
And that's really that's reallythe theme that he went with to
create the brand.
And it took off because at thatpoint there was nothing like it
(29:33):
here.
The barbershop industry wasn'tlike it is now, 13 years later.
It was very basic back then, andnow it's one of the biggest
growing, largest growingindustries at this point.
So it's we were kind of like onthe front end of that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
So there you go.
See, I'm I'm telling you, if uhif I was today and I was in my
uh late 20s, going where I amnow, I probably would have done
it.
I probably would have put it.
I would have, I would haveprobably put the hair back on.
SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
And then go but the the thing is you never the thing
about ownership of a business islike you can never just sit back
and relax.
Like it's not like he has, wehave changed the vibe of the
shop so many times over the last13 years because you have to
stay current and you have tocontinue creating.
And I think um that's kind ofwhere being partners with
(30:24):
someone it can come in handybecause if you're a solo person
starting a business, you're nowresponsible for all of the
details and all of the creativework.
And that can be really hardbecause they're completely two
different mindsets.
Um, for him, he gets to alwaysbe in that creative mindset,
which is great because he'salways pushing the business
forward with his new vision andrevamping the style so that it
(30:48):
stays interesting to people.
And he gets to do all that.
And I get to stay in more of mycomfort zone in terms of what I
am good at, which is keepingeverything in line, doing all
the financing, the day-to-daywork.
I'm a people person, he is not.
So I can deal with all of thehiring and staffing and all of
that.
So I think um having having apartner that is different than
(31:13):
you and has different attributesand strengths is really
important too.
And for the people who are outthere trying to start businesses
on their own, I can see why thatwould be an extra hurdle for
them having to take off that capand try to put the other one on.
SPEAKER_02 (31:27):
So you guys get started, you get rolling.
Um, was there ever a time whereyou went, uh-oh, this ain't
working, man?
I'm sorry, man.
Great idea.
Just no, I'm done.
We're done, we're out of here.
We gotta go.
SPEAKER_05 (31:40):
Yes, but later.
We had already opened three whenwe had that problem.
We got to three locations.
We got to three locations beforewe hit a speed bump.
Ah, well, we hit speed bumps,but basically what was happening
is after the second location,people were catching on that
this was a good.
Business idea.
And so people in the areastarted to try to replicate the
(32:01):
business.
But the thing is, it's the it'sreally the owners that make the
business successful.
So you can replicate what thebusiness looks like.
But if you don't have thededication and drive and
creativity that the people whoare running the business have,
you'll never really trulyrecreate it.
But temporarily, people will getpulled to these businesses just
(32:22):
because they're new and theyhave a similar look.
So that started to happen.
But the real big hiccup cameduring COVID because we couldn't
operate.
So those were really toughtimes.
All three were in Long Island atthe time?
No, we had two in Long Islandand then we actually opened one
in the Dominican Republic.
SPEAKER_02 (32:43):
Closer to the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_05 (32:45):
Well, all of our staff, most of our staff is
Dominican.
And so they've been, they alwaysencouraged us like to go there.
So we did.
Luckily for us, right beforeCOVID, we got um an offer to for
someone to buy it.
So thank God, because then COVIDhit like two months later, and
it was really a struggle.
Like I'm sure many peoplelistening can understand.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Oh yeah.
I so for me in my business, Iwas deemed essential.
Um, but that still didn't meanwe could not work in houses.
We had to work outside ofhouses.
Uh people would vacate thehouse, we'd come in and fix
things.
Um, so I was one of the skeletoncrew, all the remodeling just
uh, but we were in Georgia andwe opened up again back to our
governor.
Thank God he was who he was.
Thank you.
(33:26):
Yeah, because I was only downreally for from March, uh March
16th to Memorial Day.
Um wow, that's not too bad.
It wasn't uh that was and good.
And then and then uh, well, youguys had they're all employees,
right?
You guys are they 1099 yourbrothers?
They're mostly contractors,yeah.
So I had mostly employees.
So when I heard, hey, here comesthis PPP, we're the government,
(33:48):
we're here to help.
I'm like, yeah, I've heardthat's shipping for and sure
enough, I got it.
I was like, woohoo, finally,something paid off.
But uh that was able that thatallowed me to bring a bunch of
people back to work early, andthen we started cranking, and
then we just started running outof people because you couldn't
find people in the in theshortage.
But yeah, it was a weird time.
I know, right back on it's sucha wacko time, man.
(34:11):
So how long were you guys notable to cut hair or and or two
six or seven months?
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05 (34:18):
Yeah, it was hard.
And there were there were somemoments during there where we're
like, are we gonna be out?
But you know, I feel like thattime of that time of our lives
is weird for everybody.
But I think what I want to focuson in answering this question is
more of the fact that at somepoint you're going to have a
struggle, not like COVID,because hopefully we'll never
have that again.
(34:38):
But more along the lines ofpeople seeing your success and
trying to replicate that andtake away a piece of your
market.
And I think that's the scariestpart of business ownership is
when in the moment when thathappens.
Cause I remember when that washappening to us and we were
panicked.
And the funny part is all thosepeople that tried to do that,
they didn't last very long atthe end of the day.
(35:00):
Because I think you have to staystrong and double down in those
moments where you're losingbusiness.
Your instinct is, oh, we got tosave money, we got to make sure
we're cutting this corner orthat corner.
But I we did the opposite.
And I would strongly suggestthat other people do that is go
all in, like advertise againstthese people, take a stand and
(35:24):
fight the bullies because that'sthe only way you will survive.
And this is your business, thisis your livelihood, this is how
you feed your family.
Like, you can't, it's not forthe weak.
Like, you have to go out thereand fight the fight.
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
We're gonna go back to the beginning, right?
She lured people in so she couldgut them.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (35:42):
Thank you.
Excellent.
With a smile.
Uh with a smile.
Uh smiles, yeah.
She smiles.
So all right, so you sold aDominican.
Now, how many places do you havenow?
And where are they?
SPEAKER_05 (35:53):
We have two because we we were looking for another
one before COVID.
And then I don't know how it isin Atlanta, but in New York, the
prices have only just stoppedinflating recently.
So I'm actually in contractright now with two other
locations.
I'm not sure we're we'renegotiating still, you know, how
that can go.
(36:13):
We lost one back in March incontract negotiations, but we
we've been finding so many thisyear.
This is our like third one thatwe've been able to get to the
contract stage with.
So hopefully soon we'll have abunch.
SPEAKER_00 (36:27):
So you said something really important.
The difference between you andyour competition is you it's the
ownership and it's your culturethat you create.
How when you go from twolocations where it's a
basketball reference, man toman, and then suddenly you get
four locations and it's zone.
I mean, you can't be in all fourplaces at once.
(36:49):
How do you make sure that whatmade you special and made the
customers stay with you insteadof going to these fakes?
How do you how do you make thathappen?
SPEAKER_05 (36:57):
I'm already in zone defense over here.
I'm a football fan, so Iunderstand the reference
football-wise, but I'm alreadyin zone defense because my
business partner lives inupstate New York, which is about
five hours away.
So I'm already here with both ofthese shops on my radar.
Um, and so I think adding moreis definitely going to be
(37:18):
stressful and different.
And so I'll have to report backto you on how that goes.
But right now, um, how I managethat.
And it's funny because someonetold me the other day that I'm
like a duck, that I look so calmon the on the top side, but
underneath I'm like this with myfeet going, right?
And I think that's the perfectanalogy for business ownership
(37:38):
because it looks like I'm neverworking because I'm like, I have
a lot of freedom in how I canstructure my day.
I'm not at the shops all thetime.
One's open 13 years, one's openeight years.
They're very, very established.
My they run very like well-oiledmachines without me.
But I'm always working becauseI'm always talking to those
guys, to all the staff, makingsure, looking in on making sure
(38:02):
everything is good, talking tothe vendors, blah, blah, blah.
So I think it will just be moreof that.
But uh, because the other twoare so established, I think that
it might be a little bit easierat this stage to keep growing.
So then the next two, I'll haveto be there more, you know, and
make them as established as thefirst two.
And I think that's the hardestpart because you're in the
trenches in the first couple ofyears.
(38:24):
You got to be there all thetime.
You got to get the staffacclimated to the way that you
run the business, to what youwant, set the tone, build a
rapport with them, um, buildtrust, you know.
So um that part is hard and it'shard to do with multiple
locations, no doubt.
So stay tuned for how Iaccomplished that.
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (38:44):
We're gonna we're staying we're gonna stay tuned.
You're gonna have to let us knowbecause I think that's uh that's
phenomenal.
Um, so I think we're coming tothe end.
I think we got about 10, 15 moreminutes, but um, one of the
things I'm really impressed withis your social media vibe and
what you do.
And so is that a personaloutlet?
Is that a way for you?
Because um, seeing you onFacebook and doing all the stuff
(39:05):
you do, I I'm not gonna come upand get my haircut at Mad Men
barber shops in Long Islandbecause I'm in Atlanta.
So yeah, tell us why you'redoing that.
Is that part of your socialmedia?
Is it a strategy?
Is it just an outlet for you?
SPEAKER_05 (39:19):
It just kind of morphs through the years.
Like it that started duringCOVID because a lot of people
didn't have they didn't knowwhat to do with themselves in
terms of their business.
So I just started talking aboutmy business and what we were
doing, and people really likedit.
So I was like, oh, people areliking this.
I'm here not having much to do.
If I can help people, that wouldmake me feel useful in this time
(39:40):
where I can't work.
So it started out like that.
And then it just kind of becameit's not, it's not to promote
mad men per se, it's just toshow people how I live my life.
And I guess at this point, well,obviously I've I've written two
books, Pivot and Slay andSelfish is a superpower.
So I promote those books onthere.
(40:01):
But mostly I feel like it'stherapeutic for me and for the
people that follow me.
They get inspiration from theway that I live my life.
And for me, it's more of um Iguess staying accountable.
It's a good way for me to stayaccountable.
Like I'm showing people how whatthings I'm trying to do this
(40:22):
year, which motivates them,which makes me feel good.
But then it also motivates me tofollow through with all of my
goals.
So I think it's like a two-waystreet.
It like works as therapy, so soto speak, like in keeping me
accountable for things, but alsois helping other people learn
how to structure their day.
Like these little routines thatI think are so obvious, like
(40:43):
have helped me, and this is justthe way I think and live.
Other people are like, I neverthought of that.
And then it kind of makes yourealize like we all have
something useful to say.
And if we can make thoseconnections and, you know, help
people along the way, why not?
So now that's kind of what mysocial media has become is just
me sharing my life and you know,talking about what I do every
(41:05):
day and in in the business andin my personal life.
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
Chris is nodding his head, like he's totally vibing
with you.
And I'm like, there is no waythat what you're doing is so
that we can keep youaccountable.
Yo, you do not want to beaccountable for anyone.
SPEAKER_02 (41:21):
How well do I know?
She said that I was like, see,Alan, that's what I'm doing with
my social media posts.
It's like when the Falcons gottheir ass kicked on Sunday and
it took me an hour and a half toget home after that ass kicking.
I posted that all over theplace.
I never got more likes than Ihave.
Like, hey, look at us with thetrusted toolbox.
Don't be scary, don't wheel itin your house.
No, but that that one got a lotof likes because I was smoking
(41:44):
mad.
Oh my God.
SPEAKER_05 (41:46):
So it's funny.
Yeah, so it's funny because Ithink social media is weird.
Like, if you have a businessthat you can create revenue
through social media, that'sgreat.
I don't.
Um, my business, like you said,is more localized.
Um but I I feel like sometimeswhen you're just being you,
that's when the people connectwith you the most.
Whether you can monetize it ornot is a different story, but
(42:07):
I'm really not on there forthat.
SPEAKER_02 (42:10):
Me neither, Alan.
I we can't handle that.
But stop, Alan.
Please.
If we're talking to a lady,please.
I mean, she's a lawyer, she'sgonna gut you.
She's from New York.
Yeah, that worse.
Oh, yeah.
She's probably she said shedied.
SPEAKER_05 (42:23):
I didn't even register that as anything
important.
Did you see that?
I'm like, yeah, that's just aTuesday over here.
SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
Where in your spare time did you decide?
You know what?
I'm gonna write a book.
No, wait a minute, two.
SPEAKER_05 (42:35):
Yeah, I have I had a lot of emotion to process, I
think is how it started.
Again, during COVID, I had alot, I love writing.
I've written since I'm a littlegirl.
I love it so much.
It just helps me see things andconnections in my life and
understand myself.
And when I was home duringCOVID, I really needed to feel
like I was being productive.
And I thought, if all thesepeople are interested in
(42:57):
understanding my business, whydon't I just tell them like how
I did it and what I did and howit felt and all of those things.
And so I just started writingand it just poured out of me.
And during that whole process, Irealized like, if this book
didn't sell one single copy, itwas still one of the best things
I did because I saw my life outthere and I just made all these
(43:18):
connections that I hadn'tpreviously seen about who I was
and who I've become and how thattransformed and all the little
things that happened along theway that were part of that
transformation.
And then I started talking a lotafter that book about the fact
that I'm a I parent my childrenby myself because, like I said,
my ex-husband lives um upstate.
(43:38):
So I'm here with them all thetime.
And how do I balance that andbusiness ownership and um and
you know, continuing to makemyself a priority?
And so then I wrote a book aboutthat too, and it helped me see
even more parts of myself that Ihadn't understood before.
So it wasn't really about sparetime because I don't really have
(44:00):
a lot of that.
But I think for me, it was moreof like letting all of that out
of me, all the things I've beenwanting to say and just kind of
like getting it out on thepaper.
It really, it just helped megrow as a person.
And if it helps someone elsealong the way, then that's even
greater.
SPEAKER_02 (44:17):
Yeah, but say even if you don't have a book in you.
I mean, journaling, we talkedabout this, you know, is a great
technique as well.
Um, you know, uh I wrote my bookjust because I kept joking about
it, I kept joking about it, andsomebody said, Um, you know,
those sound pretty good.
I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna do it.
Um, and so uh for me, I'm not awriter.
Uh I'm an engineer twice overand uh not good at it.
(44:39):
And that's why I didn't get somehelp.
But um I agree with you becausethat pro you can process a lot
and you can also do someself-reflection.
Whatever it is for you, maybe,maybe you guys, maybe you're not
a writer, but um, finding thatthat path is definitely helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (44:54):
Who who have you found has resonated with your
book?
SPEAKER_05 (44:58):
What type of person you mean?
Yeah.
Well, I think my second book,Selfishness as a superpower,
really resonates withentrepreneurial women because
balancing, and you and you evensaid like your wives had a lot
of similar stuff to say, youknow, during the business
process.
I think it's something womendon't talk about because it
(45:19):
makes us feel weak, you know,that we don't we have this
innate drive to be a mom at thesame time as our as we're driven
to a career.
And I don't know that it'snecessarily something men can a
hundred percent understand.
And so to fit into that businessworld, we push that part of us
(45:40):
away.
And I thought it was reallyimportant to tell people like,
no, like sometimes that sucks.
Like, I didn't want to be astay-at-home mom, but I didn't
want to leave my kids andprioritize my career.
And what is what exactly doesthat make me then?
Am I a career-driven woman or amI a parent?
Why can't I be both?
How do I become both?
(46:00):
How do I continue to be a wifealong the way?
How do I continue to stayJessica Dennehy?
Like, how do you do this?
And it's like four differentparts of you trying to meld into
one human being.
And so I think the people whowomen who have businesses or
even just really high-poweredcareers really resonated with
(46:21):
that.
Um, because the the solution forme was to carve time out of my
job and my kids and my marriageto work on myself.
And I don't think that isseemingly logical when you're
like, I don't spend enough timewith my kids or at work or with
my husband.
What should I do?
Oh, take more time away to be byyourself.
That doesn't seem to make anysense.
(46:42):
But at the end of the day, ifI'm not me, how am I giving any
valuable to any of these facetsof my life?
And it took me too long tounderstand that.
So if I can shorten anyoneelse's journey and get there
faster for them, I I hope I Ihope I can do that.
That is my goal is to help themdo that um so that they don't
(47:02):
waste time like I did figuringit out.
SPEAKER_02 (47:05):
No, yeah, you know, I it's funny you say don't waste
time.
I use that line a lot, and mymentor usually says, Chris is
not wasting time if you'relearning from it, right?
As long as you're self-respectself-respect and
self-introspection to come back.
But all right, let's talk alittle bit about this because uh
they're 13 and 10.
And um uh so my wife startedtraveling a ton when my daughter
became a teenager.
(47:26):
And it was her and me.
Me and her she's 27 now.
She won.
Oh yeah, she definitely won.
It is hard raising a strong,independent will girl.
But she's 27 now, and she'scoming home uh in a couple days
as well.
So I'll see her.
Uh oh, awesome.
Yeah.
But um, as you go through that,I yeah, I uh I had to be Mr.
(47:48):
Mom doing the same thing becauseuh as I realize now I was
trapped in my wife, making herhave to travel all over the
world.
Uh India, you know, Europe, andthe whole thing.
It was up to me to you know getthe kids over where they had to
be.
And but I had the girl in uhhigh school.
So here's the good news you got,Jessica.
Um, they really don't want tosee you in high school.
Yeah.
(48:08):
So you're gonna have more timecoming soon.
What's going on?
Not kidding.
I'm sure you're gonna have abetter relationship.
But she was tough in high schooland she came around, and uh the
the problem is she's just likeme.
And I mean, that's she she'sshe's my sports lover, she's uh
very passionate.
She's going to PA school, justabout to finish up.
So um I have continued success.
(48:29):
I'm sure your daughter's gonnabe incredibly successful.
Can continued success to you asyou expand.
But we gotta go, Alan.
Thank you.
Before we do this, we've gottatalk about the final four
questions, and we're gonna pumpthese books.
Pivot and select self as asuperpower.
Number one, what's a book you'drecommend to our audience that's
not yours?
SPEAKER_05 (48:49):
The untethered soul.
It's about people who try tocontrol everything like I used
to, and how you can let go ofthat control because it's really
not control at all, because youcan't control anything.
It's really who's the author onthat?
Michael Singer.
SPEAKER_02 (49:06):
Okay.
Untethered soul.
I'm gonna bet you don't readthat.
SPEAKER_05 (49:09):
All right, it's a little woo-woo.
I'm just gonna warn you, it's alittle woo-woo.
It is.
SPEAKER_02 (49:13):
I can't do woo-woo.
I mean, I can't do woo-woo.
I mean, I watch, I watchrom-com.
Shut up, Alan.
Get back to me, please.
My God.
Alan, please stop talking.
You know what?
You're on mute now.
You're done.
You can't talk.
All right.
Is that control?
Jessica, was that?
I don't know.
A little bit.
A little bit.
Comes close.
You know, uh, we just had arecommendation to read the um
(49:34):
Never Split the Difference byChris Foss.
SPEAKER_05 (49:36):
Oh, yeah, I've read that.
SPEAKER_02 (49:37):
Not only did I I listened to it.
On what speed?
Uh 1.5.
Okay.
Uh that's the only way I can doit.
Yeah, I did.
I got well, actually, here's thedeal.
I made it a book club for mysales guys.
This book is phenomenal.
SPEAKER_05 (49:51):
That's like one of the number one sales books.
SPEAKER_02 (49:53):
Holy crap.
Oh my god, this book was likemind-melding stuff.
And so now I've got my uh mysales guys.
We just had our first twochapters this morning, and I'm
rereading the book with them,and then we all got copies of
the book, and I'm annotatingwith them and doing the whole
thing.
So I'm doing it again.
Phenomenal.
And you know, uh, it's justlistening to how he does things.
(50:14):
I look back on all the salestext.
You've redirected.
She was talking aboutuntethering and letting go.
All right, untethered.
All right, sorry.
But I was just I wasestablishing control.
Yeah, that was bad.
Oh shit.
Oh my god.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05 (50:25):
You need this book, I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_02 (50:28):
Shoot it.
Yeah.
I'm I'm actually texting mybelly books right now.
I need an emergency session.
Shit.
All right, all right, okay,let's go.
What's the favorite feature ofyour home?
SPEAKER_05 (50:38):
Ooh, I just redid my kitchen.
So I'm gonna say my kitchenbecause is that where you're
watching it right now?
Yeah, well, this is the diningroom behind me, and the
kitchen's in front of me.
SPEAKER_02 (50:46):
So what did you do to the kitchen?
Because I see the glasscabinets.
I like how you placedeverything.
Very well done.
And I like the colors.
SPEAKER_05 (50:53):
Thank you.
It used to be a galley kitchen,so I opened up the wall between
the um kitchen and the diningroom and made it like an open
concept.
But the best part is I love thecolor blue because it's very
calming.
And I saw this blue stove and Imade the whole kitchen around
the stove.
SPEAKER_02 (51:10):
Oh, very cool.
Is it a European stove or alocal?
SPEAKER_05 (51:14):
Yes, it is, and it's got the matching blue hood.
SPEAKER_02 (51:17):
So now it's my favorite feature.
You better be very proud of thatone because I love it.
They're very proud of it whenthey sell it to you.
Oh, I'm sure.
I I know I know that number.
No, that's awesome.
Okay, that's great.
All right.
You ready?
Go.
We're kind of customer servicefreaks.
Thank you.
What's a customer service petpeeve of yours when you're out
(51:39):
there and you're the customer?
SPEAKER_05 (51:40):
When I'm the customer?
Ooh, that's hard because Ireally don't like to talk to
people when I'm the customer.
SPEAKER_02 (51:47):
So you'd rather not, you'd rather have people come up
and go, ma'am, you can just typein your order and we'll come
back and give you the food.
SPEAKER_05 (51:52):
Honestly, yeah, because I I am so overstimulated
between all the barbers andhaving to service my own
customers and then coming hometo the girls that when I'm out
and about, I'm kind ofantisocial.
SPEAKER_00 (52:03):
So you're an introvert, aren't you?
SPEAKER_05 (52:05):
But no, I really am an introvert.
SPEAKER_00 (52:07):
No, no way.
She's an introvert who has to beact like an extrovert in her
business.
Correct.
SPEAKER_05 (52:11):
I get very dreamed.
In my extrovertedness.
But I could pull it off.
But so I guess um when someoneis too chatty with me as a
customer, I get frustratedbecause I'm like, please stop
talking to me.
I don't want to pretend to beinto this right now.
That was so awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (52:30):
Where I just go completely not going, thank you
for talking to me.
I go yay! I had two hours beforethis podcast.
I would not.
Yeah.
But but I was like, I had twohours before this where I ended
up getting back to the housebecause that's where we do the
podcast.
And I was supposed to have twomeetings in a row, and both of
them canceled, and I'm here atthe house by myself.
(52:50):
And when Alan showed up, I wasliterally almost falling asleep
because I was so like, oh mygod, I need to talk to people.
SPEAKER_00 (52:59):
No, it's gives me weird exact opposite.
SPEAKER_05 (53:02):
And I would be like, Oh, the house is so quiet.
I love this.
I feel so relaxed right now.
SPEAKER_02 (53:07):
Oh, you guys gotta be kidding me.
Oh no, it just drives me insane.
Maybe they'll cancel.
I hate painting.
Maybe you won't come over.
My kids even know.
They're like, uh-oh, dad's homealone.
We better call, we better texthim.
No, it can't be killed.
SPEAKER_00 (53:19):
They need what do they call it?
A mobile hanging up above these.
It's kind of bad.
I do.
unknown (53:24):
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
All right, Jessica, you you've you've said it
before.
You're a single mom, you'reworking home.
I don't want to hear aboutcontractor nightmare stories
because I live them every day.
That's what I do.
Um, I'm not a contractornightmare.
Just give me three more days.
I can do it.
Um, what is a DIY nightmarestory of yours?
SPEAKER_05 (53:41):
Did you ever any story where I'm doing it myself
is a nightmare for me.
Like, I have absolutely zerohandyman in me.
Like, I I need help, guys.
Like, I can't hardly do anythingaround the house by myself like
that.
Like, but I guess I'll say this.
My kids, who I love very dearly,begged me to decorate the house
(54:05):
outside for Christmas, which Idon't know how to do.
So I tried to hire someone, butit was so expensive.
And I was just like, you know, Idon't really want to spend this
much money on it.
It's something that's gonna beup for four weeks.
Like, I I can't do that.
So I'm a I'm a big person wholikes I spend money where I know
I'll enjoy it, even if it makesno sense to anyone else.
(54:26):
And I wouldn't enjoy thisenough.
So anyway, I go to Home Depotand I buy all the things and I'm
outside.
Now it took them 11 years to askme to do this, so I knew I had
to bring it.
I'm freaking outside and the theground is frozen and the lights
are tangled and they're notplugging in.
And I have literally my I, myivy, is it Holly, Holly plant
like completely?
(54:46):
It looks like I had 10 catsscratching me up, and I just
want to cry.
I just want to cry.
It was terrible.
It looked like a five-year-olddid it, and it took me forever,
and it wasn't even nice, andthat was a nightmare for me.
I had zero, I didn't enjoy it atall.
SPEAKER_02 (55:06):
She didn't burn anything down, she didn't flip
anything, but you know what?
I feel for her because if you'veever had a hollybush sticking
you in the back where you'retrying to do some work around
the house and die up, I mean, itis like it hit you in the exact
right spot where it's notaccurate, brother.
It's like a hundred percentneedles just sticking you to
death.
SPEAKER_00 (55:23):
Now, do the kids like it?
SPEAKER_05 (55:25):
Yeah, they loved it, they loved it.
And now, but you know what?
Not have to do it again thisyear.
I've not seen anybody again, butI learned a little bit.
I learned that not all the plugsfit each other, so I have to
plan it out beforehand.
I didn't know that, so I did thewhole thing and then they didn't
match.
I also learned that I can wearprotective gloves and stuff like
(55:46):
that when I'm outside.
And the third thing I learned isdo it on a day that it's hot
because otherwise the ground isfrozen and that makes your life
even more miserable.
SPEAKER_00 (55:55):
So usually right after Thanksgiving is a good
time.
You're right.
SPEAKER_05 (55:58):
I'm gonna apply it.
SPEAKER_00 (55:59):
I'll give you one freebie.
Have a couple extra boxes oflights.
SPEAKER_02 (56:03):
Always find the lights.
And don't even count on thesesuckers working again this year.
Yeah, that's right.
Just find me.
It's true.
SPEAKER_05 (56:08):
And also maybe have a drink before.
SPEAKER_02 (56:10):
Very Christmas cheer.
Yeah, and just the letter, whichI've done that before.
SPEAKER_01 (56:15):
So anyway, not about me.
No, Jessica.
SPEAKER_02 (56:17):
I'm untethering.
All right, Jessica, this hasbeen amazing.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
Pivot and Slade, JessicaDennehy.
We're gonna put her all in thenotes.
Uh, Mad Men Barbershops.
You're in Long Island.
Go get yourself, go treatyourself a little bit, man.
Fix it up, you know, get alittle shave here, a little tuck
there, maybe a little fryer.
Is that the name of them?
Mad Men Barbershop.
Is it really?
It is.
Oh, that's badass.
(56:37):
It is badass.
You mentioned earlier.
Mad Men Barbershop.
I thought she was to the show.
SPEAKER_05 (56:42):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (56:44):
Oh, this has been awesome.
Thank you so much.
Hey, if you didn't learnsomething, that's on you.
If you think you're a dude andyou didn't learn something off a
chick, you're wrong, brother,because you are not the smarter
sex.
We all know we're morons.
So go learn something today.
Go get better.
Let's make it a great week, andwe'll see you next week on the
podcast.
Cheers, everybody.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Small Business
Safari.
(57:04):
Remember, your positive attitudewill help you achieve that
higher altitude you're lookingfor in a wild world of small
business ownership.
Until next time, make it a greatday.
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