December 17, 2024 • 57 mins
Ever wondered how intuition plays a role in business success, or how Thanksgiving traditions can vary so widely? Join us as we embark on a "Small Business Safari," where we blend business insights with personal tales, offering a unique take on small business ownership.
Our guest, Lisa Shippel, founder of Lisa Shippel Law, shares her inspiring career transformation from aspiring news broadcaster to accomplished lawyer. Lisa opens up about her journey in real estate and estate planning law, as well as her unexpected path to establishing a successful law firm. Her story is a testament to the power of mentorship, leadership, and the importance of fostering long-term client relationships. Alongside Lisa’s insights, we discuss family entrepreneurship, the intricacies of client retention, and the nuances of growing a law firm with authenticity and heart.
Celebrate with us as we reach the top 5% of podcasts, and hear about our exciting plans for future expansion. This episode is packed with learning, and a shared passion for storytelling, designed to entertain and inspire listeners from all walks of life.
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But this is a great example of you using your
intuition.
How do you train Courtney, yourassociate, to have that same
intuition?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Through osmosis Nice.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
She rubs her arm too.
I'm going to go work there fora day.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I let her actually like.
Sometimes I'm like hey, come inmy office, I'm making a phone
call, I just want her to hearhow I talk to the people on the
other end.
Work through a situation.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, exactly, you're not going to learn it all in
one day.
I've been doing this over 30years.
Welcome to the Small BusinessSafari, where I help guide you
to avoid those traps, pitfallsand dangers that lurk when
navigating the wild world ofsmall business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
(00:42):
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
Oh boy, ellen, we're back instudio getting ready to talk it
(01:05):
up.
If you're driving in your truck, listen up, man.
This is going to be a lot offun.
If you're driving in your car,this is going to be even more
fun.
Oh wow, why?
Why?
Because we've got a lawyertoday.
Oh God, we're in trouble.
Let's talk about lawyers for aminute, shall we?
Let's?
So they, so they are amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Said no one ever.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Said no one ever.
Thank you, Lisa.
Right, you hear some of theselines of what's going on and
nobody in business ever wants tohave to talk to a lawyer
because you're probably introuble or trying to negotiate
something or you're trying tofigure out a way to get out of
something.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Isn't that primarily because people wait way too long
before they talk to theirlawyer?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
That's probably a good point.
That's why I'm here.
But there's another reason,though.
Why do I want to talk to him?
They're not fun, even thoughTroy's a lawyer and now a judge.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
He is a judge in your pocket.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And I got a pocket judge which as an Italian, I'm
very happy to have a pocketjudge.
It's always good to have one inNorth Carolina.
So when I go into NorthCarolina and rip it up, you may
have to expand your empire toNorth Carolina.
I might.
You know that's a great point,because there is somebody up
there.
That's two good points.
I've gotten already, did you?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
hear that that doesn't count.
Yes, they do.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Two nothing, and we haven't even started to, but
which has not been much really,really, I know.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
How was your Thanksgiving?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Thanksgiving was good .
I fried a turkey.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Did you have spaghetti with?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
it, of course, always , doesn't everybody?
What Every time?
I mean, I saw, I saw a post onFacebook what, what are your,
what are your go-to sides onThanksgiving?
And of course, people aretrying to be cute and do this
and do this and do that.
And uh, and you're like nobodysaid spaghetti.
Do this and do that?
And uh, and you're like nobodysaid spaghetti.
I'm like whoa huh, everybodyhas pasta zucca with their uh,
turkey.
No, no, no, no, all right, howabout yours?
(02:49):
How was yours?
It was great.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah had a good old-fashioned southern
thanksgiving with the in-lawsand then you have mac and cheese
with the southern they did, andthat was the first time my
in-laws who moved here from thewest coast.
They got invited and, uh, mymother-in-law quite liked the
mac and cheese with the turkey.
That was good.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
There you go, yeah, yeah, and they hammered the
congealed jello, the salad, oh,you know, the green with the
fruit bits and stuff every timeI hear that one, I just think
christmas vacation, yeah.
And I keep thinking the cat'sin there too, right, you
remember that one?
No, she doesn't remember thatone?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
okay?
Well, the day after we hoppedon the plane to belgium, did I
tell you that?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
that's where I thought we were gonna go,
because I hadn't done much.
You're like well, and then nextthing you know, you're out
there doing band of brothers andmarching across the uh europe
yeah, it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
So I remember telling you last time that, uh, we'd
gone down to bastogne with myson and it turns out that one of
his friend's father lives outin Eastern Belgium, supposedly
only spoke French but really wasdisappointed we didn't reach
out when we went last time.
So all these years later we lethim know and he actually picked
(04:01):
us up at the train station, tookto lunch, took us all around
bastogne to places that wewouldn't have known, and they're
getting ready for the 80thanniversary of the battle of the
bulge and they know full wellthat this could be the last time
, will be the last time anyveterans might be able to make
it, so it's pretty special.
There were banners up on thebuilding saying thanks guys, and
(04:22):
I mean those people remember.
And my new friend Eves, I meanwe looked at every monument and
he just studied them carefullyand very reverentially and he
told me a story that hisgreat-grandmother was pregnant
during the battle.
His grandmother was seven yearsold and the great-grand
(04:42):
grandmother hid two GIs in herattic where the Germans were
searching for him, and one ofthe GIs said hey, if the baby
you're carrying happens to be agirl, a great name would be
Jenny, and he has a great aunt,jenny, as a result of that.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Oh my gosh.
So why is this so important?
Because last time you educatedme and said, hey, band of
brothers.
And I'm like, oh, that's right.
So I is this so important?
Because last time you educatedme and said, hey, band of
Brothers.
And I'm like, oh, that's right.
So I have actually splurged andI just binge watched Band of
Brothers since our last time wegot together, did you?
And I finished it off.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, yeah, so the malarkey, you remember him, the
one who was searching for apistol.
My wife's family is from thatpart of Oregon and they knew the
malarkey family.
Yeah, so we had that connection.
And it found out atthanksgiving that judy's great
uncle was taken prisoner in thebattle of the bulge.
He tried to take on a tank witha rifle.
(05:34):
Lost.
They took him prisoner.
He finished out the war in astalag, made friends with the
camp guard they corresponded tothe day they died.
Wow, there's all these coolstories.
So we actually went up the daythe the week before we went,
went up to Toccoa, went to themuseum there, got a couple of
little mementos and a bottle ofthis Knob Creek bourbon and
brought it to Eve's, and so itkind of connected the whole
(05:56):
thing for him.
But he took us up to Jack'sWoods, which they call Bois
Jacques, where you can still seeEasy Company's foxholes, yeah,
which they call Bois Jacques,where you can still see Easy
Company's foxholes, yeah, andthen the town of Foy, which they
pronounce Foy, which I gotgoosebumps because it was
spitting snow and it was foggyand we're two weeks away from
when that battle commenced andit looked just like it did in
(06:18):
Band of Brothers.
Wow, yeah, the hair on my armstood up.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Wow, it's a great movie.
You know what's funny is?
I am now the president of NaryWow.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Thank you, I was waiting for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So I had my first board meeting and for an
icebreaker to get the boardgoing, I had everybody pick
their favorite movie and theirfavorite music artist and I had
a few dissenters and one of thempicked Panda Brothers.
But I had everybody try to pickwho was what and I played their
music that they all put inthere, amazingly eclectic.
Oh, that's fun.
It was 13 different people, 13different genres.
(06:52):
Well, I should say 13 there.
What country was the dominantone?
But after that it got a littlecrazy.
We were everything from lincolnpark to frank sinatra
interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
How about that?
That is a range yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, let's get to it .
Let's go learn some stuff today.
Learn me something.
Let's go do something.
Let's have some fun.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Let's see if we can get another pocket lawyer.
I know it's always good to havethem.
I'm going to work that up.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You can't have enough .
You can't have enough.
I need more than just three.
I mean what?
So we have Lisa Schippel fromLisa Schippel Law.
Isn't that?
How about that?
Again, they Very original.
Back to the lawyers.
They have to have their name.
Well, she needed to keep itsimple for you, obviously, right
, that's why I did it.
So Lisa has started her ownpractice, and she was introduced
(07:37):
to us by two of our formerguests, and well one, steve
Beecham, who and then, when Ifound out that she knew Tina
McKenna, I was like oh thenwe're totally in If she can hang
with Tina.
We know this chick's going tobe a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You're not going to be your typical lawyer.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, so we have Lisa .
On Lisa, I wanted you just totell everybody a little bit
about your background and howyou got to the point of starting
your business, and then we'lltalk about that.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Sure.
So when I graduated from lawschool, I moved down to
Alpharetta and started workingat a firm in Roswell that was
back in 94.
Father and son team.
They did real estate and estateplanning, and I worked with
them for 17 years, and then,around 08, 09, the market
(08:24):
started to turn a little bit.
In 2010, I also got divorcedand by 11, I was just ready to
be by myself in everything whichincluded practice of law.
So I just decided if I'm notmaking money working with other
people, then I'll just.
(08:44):
It was a good time for me tostart my business right.
It wasn't like I'd be givinganything up financially.
I felt like, if I had just acouple of clients each month,
that I could build something upin the downturn, learn my
systems and processes and get itall organized while I had time,
because business was light, andso in 2011, I started my own
(09:05):
firm.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So I think that's fascinating.
So first let's go back to lawschool.
When you go to law school, didyou say that's why you went
there?
Because you wanted to get intoreal estate and estate planning?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Oh no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Right.
What did you want to do?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So I was a news broadcasting major in college
and I decided I didn't want tolive in Iowa making $13,000 a
year when I graduated and my dadsaid if you want to go to law
school, I will help you pay forit.
And the market was alsohorrible in 1991 when I
graduated from college.
(09:37):
So I decided, okay, I'll go toschool for another three years
and become a lawyer.
And at that time I thought, youknow, I would be a legal
correspondent or something likethat for NBC or CNN and I'd wind
up in Atlanta doing newsbroadcasting with a legal side
to it.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Nice, so that was the line I was going to get in, so
I could get on TV.
Love it yeah, and here you'reon, you're on, well, you're on.
Well, we'll be on youtube, sothat won't.
Yeah, it doesn't really it'snot.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It's not quite the same, but she's not pretending,
she's not feeling it.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So all right, so you take off, you do the real estate
law.
You said you just took a chanceto start your business.
Did you have a plan?
Did you?
Did you like have it all laidout?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
no, okay and no.
So I called a few differentsolo practitioners that I knew
and I said what does it take tostart your own law firm?
Or how did you start your ownlaw firm?
And what I learned was thatstarting a law firm is probably
one of the least expensivebusinesses you can start on your
(10:42):
own as long as you have a lawdegree.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, there is that.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Because really all you needed at the time was a
computer, your brain and someliability insurance and you
could pretty much open up a lawfirm.
You could work out of yourhouse, you could do a number of
things, and what I did was Ijust got a small office.
(11:08):
I started renting a smalloffice and I figured if I had
three or four clients a month Icould.
I don't know, I didn't read anylike business.
I hope I don't disappoint you,but I didn't read any like
business books.
I didn't come up with abusiness plan.
I just basically thought of howmuch I needed to live and if I
could do that each month.
(11:30):
And then I came up with theidea that business is like an
inverted pyramid.
If I started with one clientthe first month and I did a good
job with one client, thenhopefully the next month I would
have two clients and then fromthere it would be four and then
it would keep growingexponentially and really it has,
(11:50):
fortunately for me, and reallythat was my business plan.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
How about that?
All right.
Well, that's a great podcast.
Thank you everybody for coming.
No, I hope it didn't disappointyou.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know now she's successful.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Oh hell, successful, Hell of successful.
I mean great.
Yeah, I mean, I looked it up,it's a pretty big firm now.
So how many people work for younow?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Right now there's seven of us.
I have one associate and therest is admin staff.
We do.
Basically, our practice ismainly real estate and estate
planning and we do help peoplestart small businesses.
So it turns out that ourclientele, or our average client
(12:35):
, really needs all three ofthose things for the most part.
You know someone who's buyingand selling real estate on the
regular also needs LLC set upfor their holdings, also needs a
good estate plan where someoneunderstands their assets.
And you know, it just fell intoplace for me, basically because
I started learning from twodifferent people one who handled
(12:56):
the real estate part of thefirm and the other person who
handled the estate planning.
I learned from two gentlemenfor a very long time and I think
it's for me a great practicebecause real estate isn't always
strong but estate planning isalways steady.
So when the real estate isn'tbooming, there's always
(13:19):
something else for us to focuson and it's what helps keep
everything going from day to dayin the office.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
She's a pretty intuitive business person,
wouldn't you say?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I would say she knew a lot more than I did when I
first started and I was killingmyself building the business
plan, talking to many of hismentors.
This comes easy to her.
Why is it I?
Don't know, it's so simple.
It did sound simple mean, yeah,and I can promise you, my path
has not been simple, it's beentorturous and then well, but she
did say she had to use her mindin the beginning.
So clearly that's the problem.
Well, she had that advantageyeah, I have definitely.
If she was, I was down one there.
So that's, that's prettyamazing that you're able to do
(13:58):
that and see that those werecomplementary practices.
And you figured out uh, thereal estate is lumpy, but
transactional probably a littlebit more lucrative, but the
estate planning, while maybe alittle smaller, is a steady plot
and pays the bills.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Correct, correct.
You know estate planning it's,it's steady and and I don't so.
So with my estate planning Ialso know what I don't know, and
I'm like that in business ingeneral.
So in my real estate you cangive me anything and I know that
.
I know it inside and out.
(14:33):
With the real estate, okay, Iwon't go to court, I don't
litigate anything, but I candraft contracts, do commercial,
residential, you name it.
I can figure it out.
Estate planning I limit myselfto the basic estate planning.
I don't help people who needspecial needs trusts.
I don't help people with largeestates, meaning 20 million plus
(14:56):
.
I just stick to the basics inthe estate planning because I
don't think that you can knoweverything.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
You know everything about everything so even in
estate planning there are niches.
I think so yeah yeah, I thinkthat's an interesting point as
well.
I would never were to find,never would have either.
So you, you found out yourniche.
You, you stick into that.
Stay away from this stuff.
Do you refer that away?
I do and then in turn probablythey refer you back correct.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So I do a lot of referral business.
Because I've been in Alpharettafor over 30 years, I know a lot
of people, and people call mejust even if they need a
bankruptcy attorney or a divorceattorney or whatever.
I'm a go-to person for areferral and so I have
definitely people who do similarwork to me, but they might only
(15:47):
do that work or they only doestate planning, they only do
large asset estates and that'swhy I send those clients.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So personal injury?
Do you really refer to MorganMorgan?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I don't know anyone there.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I don't know that they know anyone.
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Right Now we're getting there.
So again.
Ah, now we're getting at it.
So again, lawyers, and youstart thinking about it, and
wherever you are actually I wasjust out in Los Angeles and the
billboards out there Says theman who I really haven't done
anything lately.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Well, that was just a little bit of football, no.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Okay, okay, a lot of football, but the billboards out
there, you can't drive a mile.
And of course, you can't drivea mile in LA.
Thank you, because you can't.
I mean, it's just so slow.
There is a billboard like everymile.
And then I came back to Atlantaand started looking again.
I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, everyone of them.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, we have a fair amount.
You drive down to Florida.
It's insane.
I hate those.
Oh, bob got me 700 grand.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So you know about personal injury and how it works
right.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
No clue.
Okay, so that is I mean, yes, Iknow how to get hurt, trust me.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
That's more of a marketing business for attorneys
.
So the personal injury attorneyfirm they do personal injury
but a lot of what they do.
Those guys on the billboards.
They bring in a lot of businessand then they refer it out and
they refer for a commission or apiece of action.
It's the one thing that you canget a commission on a referral.
(17:17):
Wow yeah, no, I did not knowthat, so that's why they pay the
bucks for the billboardsbecause, then they get the calls
and then they refer it out.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And because I don't do personal injury, I don't know
exactly how it works right, butit's definitely like I'll refer
this business to you, or we'llbe on the case together and I'll
get a fee just for bringing itin to you.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
So now we've learned something about that Different
revenue stream Right?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
All right, let's go back to the beginning of the biz
.
Uh, when you got started, yougot going and you talked about
exponential growth, which isexactly what I had.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
My business plan was exponential growth, um well, and
I know that is mathematicallycorrect, right point one uh,
zero, zero, zero point.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
One times two point one times 0.1 is, yeah, yeah,
very low, all right.
So was there ever a point intime where you went?
This isn't working.
I'm not going to be able tokeep this going, or you always
fly.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
There's never been.
I've never had a problem.
It just it like.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Luckily just happens and it continues to happen, and
so now we're.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I kind of want her to like rub my arm or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Oh thank you hey, hey , this is this, isn't that
podcast.
No, we're not on that one again.
It's gonna happen to me now.
All right, okay, all right,well, he's got lucky all right,
so I just one.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
One thing about me is that I don't like change.
You know, I'm like I read thatwho Moved my Cheese so many
years ago?
Okay, but okay, so I just likethe status quo.
I have a lot of the sameclients for 25, 30 years now and
I'm never technically lookingto grow or expand my practice,
(19:02):
because I don't know why.
I don't know the answer to thatquestion.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
You realize, sometimes they move or they die,
so you have to replace them.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I do, but they help me replace themselves.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You're killing off her clients.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
To help her maintain the status quo.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Honestly, if I do a real estate transaction and my
client is the purchaser, a lotof times later the person who
sold will call me on their nextgo around.
So my clientele just keepsgrowing.
A lot of it from just touch,from being in my office.
But what I was saying is we'reso busy again and I don't even
(19:42):
know how we get that busy, butI'm I'm so thankful for it that
we're.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
We're knocking down a wall and we're taking over the
office next door to rub your armtoo, chris we're gonna pause
the podcast, for I need to get arub too, because I am not that
guy.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I am a guy that's absolutely going against the
cheese, grater with my foreheadand rip.
My eyebrows are getting rippedoff and I can't.
I mean, she's just growing, itjust happens.
I'm like and we're ending thepodcast now.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, all right, goodbye I can't wait to talk to
her about how she hires people,and they probably all stayed
with her since day one well, no,oh, now we get to that dirty
nitty gritty.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Finally, misery loves company.
L Lisa Please.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So my dad used to make fun of me because he'd be
like you're worse than Trump,because you know, with the year
fire.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Really.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Because I was going through a spell where it was
like a revolving door in myoffice and I really couldn't get
any traction and, thankfully,the first thing I did, I would
(20:53):
say, is that I hired mysister-in-law yes, damn late and
you fired her.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
No, did you hear that she said something else that
goes against every wisdom outthere?
And then I hired mysister-in-law and things went
well.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I don't have a business plan.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I hired a family, clearly not Italian.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, well, I have two very successful clients,
like ultra successful clients,and they both have their
siblings in help in their office, okay, and run the business,
and what I learned from them wasthat having someone that always
has your back helps.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
yeah, all jokes aside you, you, we had uh richard
grove on from, uh, he is theentity mr wall storage, and he
he said the same thing.
Is that you know, because youknow, at the end of the day,
they got your, your back.
Exactly you know that you cantrust them.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right, and she's not going to quit and just walk out
the door.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, and even if you get mad at each other, it
doesn't end it, because you'restill related.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, right, right, all right.
So back to the Lucky HorseshoeClub.
Obviously she's being verymodest, because I do know one of
the things and that's how we'vemet you is that you do do a lot
of networking in Alpharetta.
You give back to the community,you do a lot.
I know you're a Rotarian.
Thank you for doing that.
I know that's important to you.
Is that been what you think hasbeen key as well?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You take care of clients but has the networking
helped or is that just an outletfor you?
So Rotary is not a businessorganization.
It's not where you go tonetwork, it's where you go to
give back to the community.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That sounds like a standard disclaimer to me.
But go ahead.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Well, because you're not supposed to join Rotary to
grow your business, that shouldcome naturally from being a good
person, okay.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
She said we had two of them.
So, chris, have you ever beenRotary?
The answer is no.
Chris, are you a good person?
Um no, that's why my businesshas not grown.
Naturally, that's why I've hadto go out there and advertise
the crap out of it I'm glad youpicked up on that, because I
didn't really want to I didn'twant to have to point it out.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, I know she's subtle, but she's good at it too
, all right I used to be catgrin going there I used to be
super active in chamber, okay,okay, and I was even years ago
the chairperson of theAlpharetta Chamber of Commerce
and that's where I would go tonetwork.
But again, I wasn't reallythere to network per se.
(23:07):
I was really there to give backto the community as well, to
help other people grow theirbusinesses and create this great
business community.
That was really my goal with it.
And now in Rotary I go there.
I really just go there becauseI enjoy the people and I enjoy
doing the good that we do forthe community.
(23:27):
But in turn that does come backto you.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, I mean, as you give, you get.
I mean, we've talked about thisa lot and while I'm saying the
president of Nary, it really isa nonprofit and you're giving.
And that's the message I gavethe leadership team is that,
look, you're all volunteeringhere.
I mean you hope to get a jobout of this.
You're in the wrong spot.
You're here to give back to the280 members we have.
You're here to support and helpthem, and that's the thing.
(23:54):
But you'll find that the moreyou give, the more you get.
But you've got to have thatgiving heart first.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You can't go into it going all right, what do I get?
What do I get?
Where's that lead?
Or?
If I get, then I'll give, it'snot going to happen.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, if I get something, then I'll get.
Yeah, you can't have thatmindset.
So obviously you went into itwith the right mindset about
doing that and doing business,and so you've grown with a
sister-in-law still wild to me.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, so she had a job.
Oh, actually it was duringCOVID and she had a job that she
didn't like so much and mybrother would always call me and
complain about like Mary didn'tlike her job, blah, blah, blah.
And with COVID we were startingto work a little bit more
hybrid.
Everyone had computers thatthey could take home with them
(24:39):
and bring back to the office,and so Mary doesn't even live in
Georgia, she lives in SouthCarolina, and I was like, well,
I think I can train her remotelyand have her work for the
company.
And she did.
She started working for thecompany doing all the things
pretty much that I didn't wantto do, like billing.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
That is a great hire.
That is an awesome hire, yeahshe's even intuitive in hiring.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I know wow, the higher your weak spots.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Man, she's good at this stuff, all right.
So um, intuition is hard to uhhard, hard to hard you can't
learn it yeah, yeah, so you haveit clearly, yeah 100%.
Were your family.
Were they entrepreneurs?
Was that?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes, okay, okay.
So that's.
That's another thing.
Um, I come from a family ofentrepreneurs, so I don't like
look at my business, are youokay?
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Oh, you can't say that he's dying.
Don't worry about that, we havehim on mute.
Don't worry, I know a goodprobate lawyer Dying.
Don't worry about that, we havehim on mute.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Don't worry, I know a good propane lawyer.
Do you have?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
a will.
Oh, he's back now.
I cut him off.
I mean, that's enough, hey, ifyou're going to die, die in your
own time.
I'm caring, I'm a caring host.
Okay, so your family?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
So, yes, so my grandfather's, on both sides One
was a wholesale florist inManhattan had his own business.
It was a family business withhis sister.
And my other grandfather hadmany different businesses.
He had a dry cleaning business,a jewelry business, all sorts
of crazy businesses.
And then my dad, he was ateacher.
He was teaching, but he alsostarted a summer camp business.
(26:25):
So his camping business hasbeen around since 1972 in New
York metro area and my brotherworks with him.
And so I've just been raised ina family where no one's ever
worked for a corporation.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Wow, yeah, that's great.
It's funny.
You said the grandparents,because I attribute my
grandparents to giving me theentrepreneurial spirit.
My dad opted out of our familybusiness years ago and did the
corporate thing, and I watchedhim and I said, no, I want to be
like grandpa.
And my grandmother which isalso wild had her own business,
(27:02):
because that did not happen inthe fifties and sixties.
And so I just looked at themand, yes, we always hold our
grandparents to the highestesteem.
I use that line in our businessall the time.
I said don't treat that houselike your house, don't treat
that house like your mom's house.
You treat that like yourgrandmother's house, because if
you treat it like grandma'shouse, you'll be doing things
the right way, and so that'samazing.
(27:24):
But obviously that's where youpicked up some of the intuition.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Did you ever work in any other businesses?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, I was a summer counselor in my dad's business,
but not like directly for my dad, because my dad, he franchised
out the camps after a few yearsand so I worked for one of the
franchisees.
What a great counselor.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
All right, so I just did this.
So I got to ask now because wejust talked about this.
One of the things I did withthe, with the team, was your
leadership in how you run yourbusiness.
I think and really being aleader is a nurture nature thing
, right, and so I'm on thenurture side, and I think and
really being a leader is anurture nature thing, right, and
so I'm on the nurture side andI think it's three formation
formative moments, and so one ofmy questions for you would be
(28:05):
what's your first job that youever had?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
My first job what well, besides like babysitting I
worked as a summer campcounselor at someone else's camp
, like as a counselor intraining, when I was like 13.
And then my real first job whenI had papers was at mcdonald's
so you did work at mcdonald's Iwill hire anyone that worked at
mcdonald's really it's so hardso what did you learn at
(28:32):
mcdonald's?
That I really couldn't hack ityeah nice, the-through is
impossible.
It was like before everythingwas automated.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I couldn't hear you.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Then I had to go cook something and then bring it
over and package it.
It wasn't like it was comingoff a conveyor or anything back
then.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So you learned that.
I think the second thing Ilearned was what was your first
supervision job, your first timeyou had actually supervised
people?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I'm going to ask you too this Ellen.
I'm trying to think I meanother than I don't even know,
maybe when I started my ownbusiness.
Wow, I mean I've had assistantsin the other law firms.
I guess I supervised them.
But yeah, I guess.
I guess after a few years I hadassistance.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And then the last thing I'd ask is who was your
best boss ever?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Oh Don Rollator.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And what made him best.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
It was like working for family.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
What did he teach you ?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
He taught oh, he taught me to make sure I return
every single phone call beforethe end of the day, that I
should never keep my files onthe floor in case there's a
flood.
I'm just laughing, but it wasreally just to make sure that my
files were present.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
That sounds crazy, but I actually, as you know, I
also co-host a home show, alanShameless plug Not even
shameless, I'm plugging thisthing, so you got to go out
there and check it out.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You have no shame.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I have none.
All Four Seasons Home Show.
Go check it out.
Extra1063.com.
I am now the host and going tobe sponsoring soon.
So you learned that You're thehost.
Now I'm going to be thesponsoring host.
Yeah, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Man, you're taking over everything.
Nary, this N.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Extra 1063 with its incredible five-mile radius.
Yes, I'm taking over the worldfive miles at a time, thank you.
But you learn not to put yourfiles on the floor.
And we learned from a guy atthe restoration company don't
ever keep cardboard in yourbasement.
So, everybody, you just learnedsomething Don't ever put
(30:35):
cardboard in your basement,because when a flood happens, it
goes to shit.
Yeah, I mean sorry, don't worry, it's not that podcasting this
isn't family friendly.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Okay, so you learned that and then.
So, with all those, what hashelped you as you're now leading
your firm and doing what you'redoing?
What do you use today to helplead your firm that you learned
from those three instances?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Well one.
I want my employees to feelvalue, that I value them.
I want them to treat ourclients with respect and each
client is on an equal playingfield, that every client's
important to us, whether they'rea pain in the neck or they're
(31:21):
really super nice or their thingis easy or hard to deal with.
That you want to just be goodto everyone who calls the office
and I want to teach the peoplein my office.
I want to teach them to learnmore than they knew when they
started working for me.
I would rather have someone whoworked at McDonald's, who knows
(31:43):
nothing about law, come to workfor me.
As long as they seem organizedand neat and caring and smart
enough to do the work, I cantrain them to work for me, as
long as they have that drive.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
How about that, ellen ?
I would ask you those three but, this is really Lisa's episode.
It is her episode.
I'm sorry.
We can talk about that nexttime.
No, we're not going to talkabout you.
Back to me, I mean Lisa.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
So what do you tend to let people go for?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
It takes a lot for me to let you go.
Um, I've let, I've let anemployee go because the employee
the employee was not really umdid not work well with, but it
was a long time it took a longtime for me to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
You know it's funny.
You say that because I do thinkthat's been one of those things
.
We always talk about, this asbusiness owners is that if you
talk to a consultant or I bringthem in they always say what?
Hire slowly, fire quickly.
What do we do?
The opposite, the exactopposite.
You know why?
Because these consultantsprobably have never been in my
shoes, your shoes, your shoes,your shoes.
(33:04):
On the other side of this,listen to this yeah, you got a
hole to fill and you need tofill it.
And you fill that hole Because,as Rummy said, donald Rumsfeld
said in the late 90s, you go towar with the army.
You've got and you're trying toget as much as you can in there
and it's hard and you know it'sin in.
You know, I've heard this fromguys like I'm totally wrong with
what I'm saying here, you won'tever see this in a book.
(33:26):
But we do, we hire and we takeour shot.
And then what do we do?
When they start to fail?
We go.
You know what?
I can coach him up.
Yeah, right, and I I mean, I'mcompassionate to a point.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
I'm a good trainer.
You know, I see potential inthis person, all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And so you hold on to them, probably, yeah, oh, and
they've got a couple of bigclients wrapped around, you know
them.
And so you, you find ways tosay, oh, I can keep.
Oh well, there's one redeemingquality, but yet there's 20
sitting in front of you and it'shard, right, it's hard to say.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I'm sorry I'm going to have to do this.
Well, and the unfortunate thingis is all the other employees
see what's going on.
They see this person needs togo and they see you not doing
anything, and that reallychallenges your culture.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, I hate to say that.
That was a good point.
Damn it, but it is so I I Ifeel your pain because I do the
same thing.
It is hard to do that.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
But now I look for different things in employees
than the normal person maybe.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Well, they're probably the right thing.
So let's hear.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Right, yeah, everybody is now.
Actually, you probably slammedon your brakes, pulled over to
the side and going.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, like two weeks from now there's going to be
this.
I want exponential growth likeLisa, I want to be just like
Lisa.
All right, go.
So a lot of times it's hard tofind a really good full-time
employee that can be with you,you know, nine to five or nine
to six or whatever your hoursare, every single day of the
week.
So for me to get good adminstaff, I hire people who can
flex for me either three days aweek or only mornings, or work
(35:04):
remotely some days, because ifI'm giving them the flexibility
that they need in their life,then when they're with me
they're on and they're giving200%.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Wow, that is counterintuitive.
But you know what this is, whyI have a cheese grater and
eyebrows.
And she has just floatedthrough, making business
happening All right, so that's agood one, admin.
What about lawyers?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
So I need another one .
Okay, I'm looking for anattorney right now, and that's
hard to find.
I have one associate that Ihired.
She's been with me for threeyears and I hired her out of law
school and what I told her islike her first year, she's going
to learn more in one year withme than she did in three years
(35:53):
of law school.
If she just lets me teach herand I would would say in my
office she got to learn morethan anyone she went to law
school with that's um, ah, fuckit.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Uh, that's a ballsy.
I love that.
I'm like come on, I love it.
Hey, baby, you can work with me.
You're gonna learn more, youknow what.
But you did, and she did she'samazing, you know, I believe it
though would you hire anotherone right out of law school yes
Speaker 2 (36:22):
wow yes, as long as they have the drive to to or the
ambition to learn, like, aslong as they want to be a sponge
, you know there's the big thing.
So they want to be a sponge, soyou're looking for that well,
I'm looking for someone who does, who isn't lazy, right, aren't
we all?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
all right now that's yeah, I mean, come on.
Okay, thank you, captain.
Obvious, so so am I, but Iclearly am blowing it because I
take the crowbar to my headevery freaking day.
So, uh, you pick that up, allright, so, but when you're there
, obviously she stayed with younow for three years oh, I want
her to be with me until I retireand she can take over the firm
(37:03):
yeah sure does she know that?
yes, why would you tell her that?
Oh shit, now I'm figuring itout, damn it, because I tell you
have so much to learn.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
You can learn more with her in one podcast than the
last 16 years, in fact you canlearn more from me.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
In 15 minutes you have the entire life and have a
go to this one podcast that's it.
This is the podcast, so listento everybody.
Listen to this one.
You know what we're into thisthing 30 minutes, uh or so, and
if you're still sticking here,you're about to learn a lot.
How has lisa figured this thingout?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I don't know no, she's not just lucky?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
no, obviously.
So you have a work ethic to youas well, and you know I do.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
I've always worked hard, maybe a little too hard.
I'm trying to kick it back alittle bit, but I need more
people to be able to kick backon my own a little bit.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
So how do you go find a lawyer um?
Speaker 2 (37:56):
so when I hired courtney, I hired her by doing a
posting at law school, at herlaw school, and um, and I had
just a few different attorneysinterview with me and um, all
right, hang on the posting tothe law school.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So, um, so my son's about to go to law school and he
was doing the typical UGAstudent Dad, I'm only going to
the top 50.
I'm like Austin, you realize.
I only went to the bottom 50schools.
I mean, of course, the bestengineering schools ever.
I said so let's slow our rollhere.
Big guy, I mean he's a reallysmart kid.
Where did you post?
(38:32):
Did you go Harvard Yale?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
She went to Mercer.
I posted at Mercer.
I posted at Mercer because I'mnot downtown Atlanta.
Okay, I'm a suburban lawyer ina smaller town I mean,
Alpharetta is big now but it'ssuburban and I think that
there's a different person who'slooking to do the downtown law
(38:57):
firm feel or vibe than someonewho wants to work in Alpharetta.
And so I felt, like the folksat Mercer being in Macon and
coming from all over the statethat they were, probably I'd
have a better chance of findingsomeone who would be okay in the
(39:17):
suburban setting.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Okay, yeah, she's still smarter than me.
I mean, not that that was evera question after the beginning,
but it's just one thing afteranother.
It's just good thinking, thinkabout that for a minute right,
know where you are and know whatyour candidate will look like
and what that looks like.
I mean that's huge, because inthe law world obviously it's way
more niched.
(39:41):
We just figured out.
It's more niche than that.
But if you want to go downtown,her downtown vibe thing.
I love that.
She said it like that.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, because those people would use you as a
stepping stone to get to that.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Correct, yeah, and you're going to come in and
they're going to wonder why theyweren't working 100 hours a
week.
And they're going to wonder whythey weren't working 100 hours
a week and they wonder why youdidn't tell them how bad they
were and why you didn't grindthem into the ground, because
that's what those guys are doing.
That's the only thing I can atleast explain to my son before
he does this is that there's awhole world and you're going to
have to go figure it out and Idon't know the answer.
(40:11):
Well, tv's made that sort ofsexy, right?
I mean, I love suits yeah, oh,I love suits you can't.
You're the only lawyer ever whosaid that oh my god, I binge
watched it one summer no, youdid not the whole entire.
Thing, oh my god, you did not.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Oh my god I have a really um busy social life now
yeah, well, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
How realistic was it?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
oh well, it's not like my firm well, it's not even
realistic at all because I Ihave two other friends who do
the high powered law stuff wehaven't talked about and they
were like dude, you know thatnobody can do M&A and do these.
I'm like you are.
Yeah, I get that, but but it'sstill so cool he pulls it off
and he comes in there.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
He knows everything.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Everything about every aspect of the law.
I'm like dude.
I said as a non-lawyer I saidI'm so digging he goes dude,
you're such a I can't say whathe said.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
But let's just say it started with W and ended with E
and might arrive with myimpression of suits is you son
of a bitch?
Cause they were alwaysbackstabbing.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
No, and my thing is, I don't give a goddamn what you
think I'm like.
I use that line all the time.
I said I should have been alawyer, although I hate law and
I can't, and you don't have abrain, remember that, and I
don't have a ring.
Brain, brain, oh brain.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I don't have, I can't do that, so, oh my god, you
have a computer, no brain.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
All right, guys, this is the unicorn we have found
her.
She not only knows how to dobusiness, she's in the world how
to do law and she binge-watchedsuits and liked it as a lawyer.
And you're like what?
Because I've been to, I mean Idid, we binge-watched suits the
whole time and I would call troy, my pocket judge up in North
Carolina.
I'm like dude, did you knowthis one?
(41:56):
And this one?
He goes.
Chris, you know you can't dothat.
I'm like I know, but it's socool, it's TV, it was the best
it would be during the day, andthen at night he'd be pulling
out this and the next thing ohmy God, it thing, oh my god,
it's the best ever.
Um, I'm, I'm, I'm.
Now I'm gonna go back and bingewatch after band of brothers,
(42:16):
all right.
So back to uh, lisa, shall we?
All right, it's your show.
All right, lisa?
Uh, you're at your stage,you've scaled, you've gotten to
this point now and you'relooking at the other side where
she could take over your firm.
The uh, the associate broughtin.
What do you want to do?
I mean, what are your goals nowfor the next five, 10, 20,
because you're very young?
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Okay, so I'm not that young, okay, I'm not even young
.
But so I'd say, over the nextfive years, I want to.
I don't know that I even wantto grow, grow, but I need to
grow.
I to have two other, thelistener the look on chris's
(43:00):
face is priceless.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
She was like.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
That was like saying there is no god with three years
of podcasting down the tube, soyou don't need to scale sorry,
yeah, you know what and andpodcast.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You know we're probably not even gonna air this
thing.
If you guys listen to thisthing, by the grace of god you
got to listen to this onebecause, uh, and by the grace of
god, you take some of thesefreaking lessons, because even
if you just listen to her,you'll grow, grow what?
Speaker 3 (43:29):
what's the?
Speaker 1 (43:29):
lesson, though I?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I don't know if you have to be smart like lisa,
don't be dumb like chris.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
What?
Speaker 2 (43:35):
if you are good to your clients and your and your
or your customers, right, you'llget more and then you'll have
to grow.
I feel like I have to growisn't that what we all try?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
to do a burden, a burden of being so good at
everything.
Lisa says I have to grow,because they all keep coming to
me.
I have to grow.
I'm like, oh my god, yeah,that's what I keep saying.
Oh my god, I have to keepgrowing.
Or, holy shit, where the hellis everybody?
Speaker 3 (44:11):
that's my line so maybe she needs to explain what
being good to your customerslooks like All right.
Well, what do you do differentthan an other attorney?
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Okay, I don't act smarter than my clients.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Oh, you don't talk down to them.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I do not.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Chris, write that down.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I mean, I guess, it guess the same thing happens.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
If I've got someone, but in the house though I am.
That's the problem.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Just quit wielding your brain like a club and you
might get someplace.
But I do know more about that.
But this is an interestingthing that you say, because I
kind of want my lawyer to bereally smart.
And how do I know you're reallysmart if you're playing that
down?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Well, because you'll know, because I'll produce the
results that you need.
You're just going to have to gowith it one time and see if it
works out for you, and thenyou'll trust me.
That's just how I feel.
I don't use big words, I don'ttry and overcomplicate a deal.
I'll tell people if you want meto review your contract or you
(45:18):
want me to review your lease ordo this transaction for you.
I am not going to send yousomething back with a million
red lines.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I'm not going to correct you.
There's one answer right there.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
I'm not going to correct you the commercial real
estate agent says yeah, there'sone answer right there I'm not
going to.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
The commercial real estate agent says yeah, because
we hate it when we use thestandard GAR form more often
than not.
Georgia Association of Realtors.
And anytime somebody goes, oh,I want my realtor to look at it
it's like, oh God, it's going tocome back just bleeding,
dripping red.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Well, it's funny that you say that, because I have a
huge transaction where I'mrepresenting the seller, that
because I have a hugetransaction where I'm
representing the seller and wekind of wanted something easy,
an easy contract, right, so Icould either draft something or
the purchaser's attorney coulddraft something.
But what I suggested at the endof the day was, I said, just go
(46:06):
with the GAR form and let's seeif we could just use it, it
works, it works and let's see ifwe can just use it.
It works, it works.
There's a lot of.
There are some things thataren't added to the GAR form,
that another attorney might addto a GAR form, but at the end of
the day, they're not necessary.
They're not and it works.
(46:27):
The GAR form works for a reason.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
But this is a great example of you using your
intuition.
How do you train Courtney, yourassociate, to have that same
intuition?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Through osmosis Nice.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
She rubs her arm too.
I'm going to go work there fora day.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
I let her actually like.
Sometimes I'm like, hey, comein my office, I'm making a phone
call.
I just want her to hear how Italk to the people on the other
end work through a situation,how I talk to the people on the
other end work through asituation.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
You're not going to learn it all in one day.
I've been doing this over 30years, so it takes time.
You don't know that, people.
Everyone's going to ask you toclose something between
Christmas and New Year's, right,and other attorneys are going
to say, no, I'm giving away mysecret, but no, I can't close
(47:13):
this because we take off betweenChristmas and New Year's or
whatever.
And I say I can do it Because Iknow that even if I have a
small staff, nine times out often someone else is not.
They're not going to get it tothe finish line for me.
You know what I mean.
Like someone else is going tofumble or say we're going to do
(47:33):
it after this date.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Oh, so you're waiting for the bank to fall on their
face?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Someone.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And you're like, oh, I was there for you.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, so we'll do it first week of January.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Genius.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Oh my gosh, she's so good, she is really good.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (47:48):
She's playing chess and I'm eating my checkers, my
friend.
That's the problem.
I'm not even playing checkers,I'm just chewing on them.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
I mean we'll be ready if everyone else is ready, but
a lot of times it's justsomething happens at the end of
the year and they can't get itdone.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Something happens.
Oh my gosh, lisa.
I could keep going on and onand on, just because I want to
learn and I want to be better.
But I think I need osmosis.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
But we can't do it for everything we need to call
your therapist again.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
I know well, yeah, she's on vacation, she can't she
can't fit me in between.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
That's funny.
I called her and she justpicked up the phone I know she
she said something about herrates changing.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I don't know what that is, uh.
So, lisa, this has been awesome.
Actually, we've been talkingabout a lot of stuff and I would
have to say, as terms, aslawyers go, actually in terms of
just people, she's fun andinteresting and really smart.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah, smart, but doesn't flaunt it.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
She didn't and I can see customers can go.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
You know what?
This is an attorney thatactually speaks a normal
language that I can understand.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, if you're an Alpharetta, you're in the.
Actually you want to work atjust an Alpharetta, right, you
want to work in the state ofGeorgia, right?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Oh no, I I close anything in the state Nice.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
All right, you got to call Lisa Schippel, do it, make
it happen.
If you guys want to get somework done, she'll work with
small business owners.
Of course, she loves you, allright.
And if you want to get luckyand understand how to make
things happen and get bigger,maybe you call Lisa Schippel.
I'm coming up with taglines,I'm trying to work out Lisa
Schippel taglines.
(49:29):
But she doesn't even need toadvertise, bro.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
No, because she doesn't want to grow, she just
want to grow.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
That actually just.
I mean, almost Did I ruin yourshow.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
It's 100%.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Oh my God, 100%, hey I don't want to grow, I have to
grow.
Oh, is that what happens.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
I'm just nice to people and they oh, give me
money.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Oh my god so, guys, I'm gonna go with germany on
that one, but but again, wecan't have lisa leave without
asking our famous four questions.
Number one give us actually,you haven't written a book yet I
did oh my god, we're gonna haveto have a book club.
Oh, did you write a?
Speaker 3 (50:11):
book Alan?
No, I haven't, but I wouldrather hear how Lisa wrote her
book.
All right, lisa.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
That's a whole other show.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
I bet it was like.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
I just wrote a book.
So what's a book you wouldrefer to everybody on the
podcast?
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Well, oh, I just read last year Younger Next Year.
It's a health book.
They have a male and a femaleversion of the book and it just
helps you, you know, think abouthow to stay healthy as you get
older, so that you don't have asmany medical problems later in
life so, uh, bourbon every night.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
wine check uh.
Hamburger check, steak, steakcheck.
Uh, pressed cider mate Drinkapple cider that's been
fermented, check, check.
So we're on track, I think.
I think we read that book.
All right, great, all right,that's number one.
Give us the favorite feature ofyour home.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Okay, I told you you would laugh.
It is my heated bidet toiletseat.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
I will not laugh, but I will not use it.
Thank you, we put them in andpeople say bidet, once you use
it, you'll never.
I'm like dude.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Once you have the heated toilet seat, you just
want to sit on a heated toiletseat.
She's been to Japan.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Does it sing songs?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
for you.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Maybe that's where all our good ideas come from.
It might be, but I'm tellingyou, actually, I just sold a
client on a heated floor.
I'm going to tell you, I'm inthe South and I have a heated
floor in my bathroom and thismorning I spent five minutes in
there going oh, I just love myheated floor because it's cool.
But a heated bidet I'm just notsure I can go there.
But I like that.
You're right.
(51:44):
I would laugh if you got me Allright.
So we need a diy nightmarestory.
I know you told me you didn'thave one, but uh, we'll skip
that one and we're gonna go tocustomer service, shall we?
Let's?
Because we are customer servicefreaks.
Oh my god, let's go do it whatabout it?
(52:08):
so she clearly doesn't know.
Yeah, what is a pet?
Speaker 3 (52:11):
peeve of yours when you're the customer.
Regarding customer service.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
When someone doesn't call me back or respond to my
email and I have to ask them.
And I'm not the kind of personthat just will pepper you all
day.
But if you don't respond to mein 24 hours, 48 hours, it's the
ghosting thing and it'shappening.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
And it's not the kids , it's grown-ass adults.
It's grown-ass adults, it'sgrown-ass adults.
Yeah, let's talk about that fora minute.
It drives me freaking nutswe're the health state.
You only make money if youfreaking answer your phone or
call back and people still don'tcall back.
I don't care if your building'salready sold.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
At least give me the courtesy and let me know brother
, I would tell you every timepeople say that I'm going to
challenge them, I bet you don'tget as many calls, texts or
emails that I get every day,because I swear to God, my
number is so flipping high rightnow in terms of the spam calls
and other stuff going on.
I know I can get back.
It's a lack of focus and that'sthe hard part, because I can't
(53:04):
figure out how to get thesethings out of the way.
I think it's bad parenting.
You know what?
Speaker 3 (53:08):
Can we bring back spanking?
I think so.
Corporal punishment and thenghosting Hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
You ghost me and you're over 50, I'm spanking you
.
They deserve to be spanked.
I think so too.
Bring back caning.
Whoa, I didn't say that.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yeah, you did.
Corporal punishment.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
No, I just said a little spanking.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
I'm public flogging.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Answer your phone.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
All right, my mother was all can I say another thing
that bothers me?
Yeah, please don't call me,text me and email me all within
yes, 10 seconds the full courtpress I.
I respond right away.
So when someone's like gettingme, it all goes to my one phone
right.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
I may be in a meeting .
I may be at the doctor.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Give me a minute all right, let's talk about that for
a minute because we had to go.
But we gotta keep talkingbecause, all right, this one I
got a friend of mine who sendsme a text, then a text than a
text, and he puts all of ittogether and he calls that drip
texting.
He goes that's how I get yourattention.
I'm like you realize, I'm infront of a client a lot of times
when you're doing that and it'sjust blowing my phone up yeah,
(54:15):
you get my attention in the factthat I'm really annoyed at you
exactly yeah yeah, so he saidthat, too, he goes.
Well, you called me back, didn'tyou?
I'm like don't, don't, let meaffirm this, because this is not
good maybe, maybe, go for everyextra text.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
I'm going to wait another half hour to call you
back.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
I do.
That's true, though how aboutthe people who are just so
impatient?
They think if I'm the biggestpain in the ass, I'm the squeaky
wheel You're going to grease me?
No, bro, I ain't greasing shit,I'm going to fire you.
Yeah, absolutely.
Get ready.
She is Trump what you, trumpwhat you can't see that she's a
nice trump you know what?
I'll take that one.
Yeah, all right, all right, allright.
(54:55):
Last thing I can't rememberwhat it was but it's got to be
good.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
No, we skipped one.
That's why we're done yeah, thediy one well, the diy one.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
You could tell a story about how you shot
yourself with a hammer orsomething or or stepped on a
nail, um, right through my footas I tried to put up a a-foot
header by myself.
Yeah, I've done that too.
I mean, I've got so many DIYnightmare stories.
I did not light the house onfire, absolutely, and you can't
prove it, mary Williams.
(55:23):
I did not put her.
The kitchen did not go on firebecause of me.
That was not a client, I'mkidding, but um, but it's, it's.
I got so many great diynightmare stories, um, because
that's how I teach my guys everytime you use something stupid,
you gotta learn from it.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
Don't do it again yeah, and if they laugh at you,
it's kind of fun team buildingthing.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah, they love it.
All.
Right, guys, if you didn'tlearn something, that's on you,
because I think this podcast iskilling it and you know know
what?
I'm not the only one.
The people have spoken.
We're in the top 5%, alan.
We are rocking and rolling.
We're making it happen.
People are listening.
And guess what?
Next year, in 2025, if you'restarting to listen to this thing
(56:04):
, we're going to be on anotherpodcast platform.
We're going to be part of anetwork.
You guys are going to be ableto hear us in other areas and
work.
You guys are going to be ableto hear us in other areas.
And you got to go check thisout.
Spread the word to your friends.
If you didn't do that, then Ihate you.
All right, don't do that.
I didn't hate you.
Uh, you learned something fromlisa shippa.
Go check her out.
Lisa shippa, law in alpharettaor all of georgia.
You want to figure out how todo business easy?
(56:25):
You can do it.
Let's get out of here.
We gotta go.
Cheers everybody.
But this is a great example of you using your
intuition.
How do you train Courtney, yourassociate, to have that same
intuition?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Through osmosis Nice.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
She rubs her arm too.
I'm going to go work there fora day.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I let her actually like.
Sometimes I'm like hey, come inmy office, I'm making a phone
call, I just want her to hearhow I talk to the people on the
other end.
Work through a situation.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, exactly, you're not going to learn it all in
one day.
I've been doing this over 30years.
Welcome to the Small BusinessSafari, where I help guide you
to avoid those traps, pitfallsand dangers that lurk when
navigating the wild world ofsmall business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
(00:42):
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
Oh boy, ellen, we're back instudio getting ready to talk it
(01:05):
up.
If you're driving in your truck, listen up, man.
This is going to be a lot offun.
If you're driving in your car,this is going to be even more
fun.
Oh wow, why?
Why?
Because we've got a lawyertoday.
Oh God, we're in trouble.
Let's talk about lawyers for aminute, shall we?
Let's?
So they, so they are amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Said no one ever.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Said no one ever.
Thank you, Lisa.
Right, you hear some of theselines of what's going on and
nobody in business ever wants tohave to talk to a lawyer
because you're probably introuble or trying to negotiate
something or you're trying tofigure out a way to get out of
something.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Isn't that primarily because people wait way too long
before they talk to theirlawyer?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
That's probably a good point.
That's why I'm here.
But there's another reason,though.
Why do I want to talk to him?
They're not fun, even thoughTroy's a lawyer and now a judge.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
He is a judge in your pocket.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And I got a pocket judge which as an Italian, I'm
very happy to have a pocketjudge.
It's always good to have one inNorth Carolina.
So when I go into NorthCarolina and rip it up, you may
have to expand your empire toNorth Carolina.
I might.
You know that's a great point,because there is somebody up
there.
That's two good points.
I've gotten already, did you?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
hear that that doesn't count.
Yes, they do.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Two nothing, and we haven't even started to, but
which has not been much really,really, I know.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
How was your Thanksgiving?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Thanksgiving was good .
I fried a turkey.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Did you have spaghetti with?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
it, of course, always , doesn't everybody?
What Every time?
I mean, I saw, I saw a post onFacebook what, what are your,
what are your go-to sides onThanksgiving?
And of course, people aretrying to be cute and do this
and do this and do that.
And uh, and you're like nobodysaid spaghetti.
Do this and do that?
And uh, and you're like nobodysaid spaghetti.
I'm like whoa huh, everybodyhas pasta zucca with their uh,
turkey.
No, no, no, no, all right, howabout yours?
(02:49):
How was yours?
It was great.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah had a good old-fashioned southern
thanksgiving with the in-lawsand then you have mac and cheese
with the southern they did, andthat was the first time my
in-laws who moved here from thewest coast.
They got invited and, uh, mymother-in-law quite liked the
mac and cheese with the turkey.
That was good.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
There you go, yeah, yeah, and they hammered the
congealed jello, the salad, oh,you know, the green with the
fruit bits and stuff every timeI hear that one, I just think
christmas vacation, yeah.
And I keep thinking the cat'sin there too, right, you
remember that one?
No, she doesn't remember thatone?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
okay?
Well, the day after we hoppedon the plane to belgium, did I
tell you that?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
that's where I thought we were gonna go,
because I hadn't done much.
You're like well, and then nextthing you know, you're out
there doing band of brothers andmarching across the uh europe
yeah, it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
So I remember telling you last time that, uh, we'd
gone down to bastogne with myson and it turns out that one of
his friend's father lives outin Eastern Belgium, supposedly
only spoke French but really wasdisappointed we didn't reach
out when we went last time.
So all these years later we lethim know and he actually picked
(04:01):
us up at the train station, tookto lunch, took us all around
bastogne to places that wewouldn't have known, and they're
getting ready for the 80thanniversary of the battle of the
bulge and they know full wellthat this could be the last time
, will be the last time anyveterans might be able to make
it, so it's pretty special.
There were banners up on thebuilding saying thanks guys, and
(04:22):
I mean those people remember.
And my new friend Eves, I meanwe looked at every monument and
he just studied them carefullyand very reverentially and he
told me a story that hisgreat-grandmother was pregnant
during the battle.
His grandmother was seven yearsold and the great-grand
(04:42):
grandmother hid two GIs in herattic where the Germans were
searching for him, and one ofthe GIs said hey, if the baby
you're carrying happens to be agirl, a great name would be
Jenny, and he has a great aunt,jenny, as a result of that.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Oh my gosh.
So why is this so important?
Because last time you educatedme and said, hey, band of
brothers.
And I'm like, oh, that's right.
So I is this so important?
Because last time you educatedme and said, hey, band of
Brothers.
And I'm like, oh, that's right.
So I have actually splurged andI just binge watched Band of
Brothers since our last time wegot together, did you?
And I finished it off.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, yeah, so the malarkey, you remember him, the
one who was searching for apistol.
My wife's family is from thatpart of Oregon and they knew the
malarkey family.
Yeah, so we had that connection.
And it found out atthanksgiving that judy's great
uncle was taken prisoner in thebattle of the bulge.
He tried to take on a tank witha rifle.
(05:34):
Lost.
They took him prisoner.
He finished out the war in astalag, made friends with the
camp guard they corresponded tothe day they died.
Wow, there's all these coolstories.
So we actually went up the daythe the week before we went,
went up to Toccoa, went to themuseum there, got a couple of
little mementos and a bottle ofthis Knob Creek bourbon and
brought it to Eve's, and so itkind of connected the whole
(05:56):
thing for him.
But he took us up to Jack'sWoods, which they call Bois
Jacques, where you can still seeEasy Company's foxholes, yeah,
which they call Bois Jacques,where you can still see Easy
Company's foxholes, yeah, andthen the town of Foy, which they
pronounce Foy, which I gotgoosebumps because it was
spitting snow and it was foggyand we're two weeks away from
when that battle commenced andit looked just like it did in
(06:18):
Band of Brothers.
Wow, yeah, the hair on my armstood up.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Wow, it's a great movie.
You know what's funny is?
I am now the president of NaryWow.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Thank you, I was waiting for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So I had my first board meeting and for an
icebreaker to get the boardgoing, I had everybody pick
their favorite movie and theirfavorite music artist and I had
a few dissenters and one of thempicked Panda Brothers.
But I had everybody try to pickwho was what and I played their
music that they all put inthere, amazingly eclectic.
Oh, that's fun.
It was 13 different people, 13different genres.
(06:52):
Well, I should say 13 there.
What country was the dominantone?
But after that it got a littlecrazy.
We were everything from lincolnpark to frank sinatra
interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
How about that?
That is a range yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, let's get to it .
Let's go learn some stuff today.
Learn me something.
Let's go do something.
Let's have some fun.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Let's see if we can get another pocket lawyer.
I know it's always good to havethem.
I'm going to work that up.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You can't have enough .
You can't have enough.
I need more than just three.
I mean what?
So we have Lisa Schippel fromLisa Schippel Law.
Isn't that?
How about that?
Again, they Very original.
Back to the lawyers.
They have to have their name.
Well, she needed to keep itsimple for you, obviously, right
, that's why I did it.
So Lisa has started her ownpractice, and she was introduced
(07:37):
to us by two of our formerguests, and well one, steve
Beecham, who and then, when Ifound out that she knew Tina
McKenna, I was like oh thenwe're totally in If she can hang
with Tina.
We know this chick's going tobe a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You're not going to be your typical lawyer.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, so we have Lisa .
On Lisa, I wanted you just totell everybody a little bit
about your background and howyou got to the point of starting
your business, and then we'lltalk about that.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Sure.
So when I graduated from lawschool, I moved down to
Alpharetta and started workingat a firm in Roswell that was
back in 94.
Father and son team.
They did real estate and estateplanning, and I worked with
them for 17 years, and then,around 08, 09, the market
(08:24):
started to turn a little bit.
In 2010, I also got divorcedand by 11, I was just ready to
be by myself in everything whichincluded practice of law.
So I just decided if I'm notmaking money working with other
people, then I'll just.
(08:44):
It was a good time for me tostart my business right.
It wasn't like I'd be givinganything up financially.
I felt like, if I had just acouple of clients each month,
that I could build something upin the downturn, learn my
systems and processes and get itall organized while I had time,
because business was light, andso in 2011, I started my own
(09:05):
firm.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So I think that's fascinating.
So first let's go back to lawschool.
When you go to law school, didyou say that's why you went
there?
Because you wanted to get intoreal estate and estate planning?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Oh no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Right.
What did you want to do?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So I was a news broadcasting major in college
and I decided I didn't want tolive in Iowa making $13,000 a
year when I graduated and my dadsaid if you want to go to law
school, I will help you pay forit.
And the market was alsohorrible in 1991 when I
graduated from college.
(09:37):
So I decided, okay, I'll go toschool for another three years
and become a lawyer.
And at that time I thought, youknow, I would be a legal
correspondent or something likethat for NBC or CNN and I'd wind
up in Atlanta doing newsbroadcasting with a legal side
to it.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Nice, so that was the line I was going to get in, so
I could get on TV.
Love it yeah, and here you'reon, you're on, well, you're on.
Well, we'll be on youtube, sothat won't.
Yeah, it doesn't really it'snot.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It's not quite the same, but she's not pretending,
she's not feeling it.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So all right, so you take off, you do the real estate
law.
You said you just took a chanceto start your business.
Did you have a plan?
Did you?
Did you like have it all laidout?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
no, okay and no.
So I called a few differentsolo practitioners that I knew
and I said what does it take tostart your own law firm?
Or how did you start your ownlaw firm?
And what I learned was thatstarting a law firm is probably
one of the least expensivebusinesses you can start on your
(10:42):
own as long as you have a lawdegree.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, there is that.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Because really all you needed at the time was a
computer, your brain and someliability insurance and you
could pretty much open up a lawfirm.
You could work out of yourhouse, you could do a number of
things, and what I did was Ijust got a small office.
(11:08):
I started renting a smalloffice and I figured if I had
three or four clients a month Icould.
I don't know, I didn't read anylike business.
I hope I don't disappoint you,but I didn't read any like
business books.
I didn't come up with abusiness plan.
I just basically thought of howmuch I needed to live and if I
could do that each month.
(11:30):
And then I came up with theidea that business is like an
inverted pyramid.
If I started with one clientthe first month and I did a good
job with one client, thenhopefully the next month I would
have two clients and then fromthere it would be four and then
it would keep growingexponentially and really it has,
(11:50):
fortunately for me, and reallythat was my business plan.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
How about that?
All right.
Well, that's a great podcast.
Thank you everybody for coming.
No, I hope it didn't disappointyou.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know now she's successful.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Oh hell, successful, Hell of successful.
I mean great.
Yeah, I mean, I looked it up,it's a pretty big firm now.
So how many people work for younow?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Right now there's seven of us.
I have one associate and therest is admin staff.
We do.
Basically, our practice ismainly real estate and estate
planning and we do help peoplestart small businesses.
So it turns out that ourclientele, or our average client
(12:35):
, really needs all three ofthose things for the most part.
You know someone who's buyingand selling real estate on the
regular also needs LLC set upfor their holdings, also needs a
good estate plan where someoneunderstands their assets.
And you know, it just fell intoplace for me, basically because
I started learning from twodifferent people one who handled
(12:56):
the real estate part of thefirm and the other person who
handled the estate planning.
I learned from two gentlemenfor a very long time and I think
it's for me a great practicebecause real estate isn't always
strong but estate planning isalways steady.
So when the real estate isn'tbooming, there's always
(13:19):
something else for us to focuson and it's what helps keep
everything going from day to dayin the office.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
She's a pretty intuitive business person,
wouldn't you say?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I would say she knew a lot more than I did when I
first started and I was killingmyself building the business
plan, talking to many of hismentors.
This comes easy to her.
Why is it I?
Don't know, it's so simple.
It did sound simple mean, yeah,and I can promise you, my path
has not been simple, it's beentorturous and then well, but she
did say she had to use her mindin the beginning.
So clearly that's the problem.
Well, she had that advantageyeah, I have definitely.
If she was, I was down one there.
So that's, that's prettyamazing that you're able to do
(13:58):
that and see that those werecomplementary practices.
And you figured out uh, thereal estate is lumpy, but
transactional probably a littlebit more lucrative, but the
estate planning, while maybe alittle smaller, is a steady plot
and pays the bills.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Correct, correct.
You know estate planning it's,it's steady and and I don't so.
So with my estate planning Ialso know what I don't know, and
I'm like that in business ingeneral.
So in my real estate you cangive me anything and I know that
.
I know it inside and out.
(14:33):
With the real estate, okay, Iwon't go to court, I don't
litigate anything, but I candraft contracts, do commercial,
residential, you name it.
I can figure it out.
Estate planning I limit myselfto the basic estate planning.
I don't help people who needspecial needs trusts.
I don't help people with largeestates, meaning 20 million plus
(14:56):
.
I just stick to the basics inthe estate planning because I
don't think that you can knoweverything.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
You know everything about everything so even in
estate planning there are niches.
I think so yeah yeah, I thinkthat's an interesting point as
well.
I would never were to find,never would have either.
So you, you found out yourniche.
You, you stick into that.
Stay away from this stuff.
Do you refer that away?
I do and then in turn probablythey refer you back correct.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So I do a lot of referral business.
Because I've been in Alpharettafor over 30 years, I know a lot
of people, and people call mejust even if they need a
bankruptcy attorney or a divorceattorney or whatever.
I'm a go-to person for areferral and so I have
definitely people who do similarwork to me, but they might only
(15:47):
do that work or they only doestate planning, they only do
large asset estates and that'swhy I send those clients.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So personal injury?
Do you really refer to MorganMorgan?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I don't know anyone there.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I don't know that they know anyone.
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Right Now we're getting there.
So again.
Ah, now we're getting at it.
So again, lawyers, and youstart thinking about it, and
wherever you are actually I wasjust out in Los Angeles and the
billboards out there Says theman who I really haven't done
anything lately.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Well, that was just a little bit of football, no.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Okay, okay, a lot of football, but the billboards out
there, you can't drive a mile.
And of course, you can't drivea mile in LA.
Thank you, because you can't.
I mean, it's just so slow.
There is a billboard like everymile.
And then I came back to Atlantaand started looking again.
I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, everyone of them.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, we have a fair amount.
You drive down to Florida.
It's insane.
I hate those.
Oh, bob got me 700 grand.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So you know about personal injury and how it works
right.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
No clue.
Okay, so that is I mean, yes, Iknow how to get hurt, trust me.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
That's more of a marketing business for attorneys
.
So the personal injury attorneyfirm they do personal injury
but a lot of what they do.
Those guys on the billboards.
They bring in a lot of businessand then they refer it out and
they refer for a commission or apiece of action.
It's the one thing that you canget a commission on a referral.
(17:17):
Wow yeah, no, I did not knowthat, so that's why they pay the
bucks for the billboardsbecause, then they get the calls
and then they refer it out.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And because I don't do personal injury, I don't know
exactly how it works right, butit's definitely like I'll refer
this business to you, or we'llbe on the case together and I'll
get a fee just for bringing itin to you.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
So now we've learned something about that Different
revenue stream Right?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
All right, let's go back to the beginning of the biz
.
Uh, when you got started, yougot going and you talked about
exponential growth, which isexactly what I had.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
My business plan was exponential growth, um well, and
I know that is mathematicallycorrect, right point one uh,
zero, zero, zero point.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
One times two point one times 0.1 is, yeah, yeah,
very low, all right.
So was there ever a point intime where you went?
This isn't working.
I'm not going to be able tokeep this going, or you always
fly.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
There's never been.
I've never had a problem.
It just it like.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Luckily just happens and it continues to happen, and
so now we're.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I kind of want her to like rub my arm or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Oh thank you hey, hey , this is this, isn't that
podcast.
No, we're not on that one again.
It's gonna happen to me now.
All right, okay, all right,well, he's got lucky all right,
so I just one.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
One thing about me is that I don't like change.
You know, I'm like I read thatwho Moved my Cheese so many
years ago?
Okay, but okay, so I just likethe status quo.
I have a lot of the sameclients for 25, 30 years now and
I'm never technically lookingto grow or expand my practice,
(19:02):
because I don't know why.
I don't know the answer to thatquestion.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
You realize, sometimes they move or they die,
so you have to replace them.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I do, but they help me replace themselves.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You're killing off her clients.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
To help her maintain the status quo.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Honestly, if I do a real estate transaction and my
client is the purchaser, a lotof times later the person who
sold will call me on their nextgo around.
So my clientele just keepsgrowing.
A lot of it from just touch,from being in my office.
But what I was saying is we'reso busy again and I don't even
(19:42):
know how we get that busy, butI'm I'm so thankful for it that
we're.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
We're knocking down a wall and we're taking over the
office next door to rub your armtoo, chris we're gonna pause
the podcast, for I need to get arub too, because I am not that
guy.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I am a guy that's absolutely going against the
cheese, grater with my foreheadand rip.
My eyebrows are getting rippedoff and I can't.
I mean, she's just growing, itjust happens.
I'm like and we're ending thepodcast now.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, all right, goodbye I can't wait to talk to
her about how she hires people,and they probably all stayed
with her since day one well, no,oh, now we get to that dirty
nitty gritty.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Finally, misery loves company.
L Lisa Please.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So my dad used to make fun of me because he'd be
like you're worse than Trump,because you know, with the year
fire.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Really.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Because I was going through a spell where it was
like a revolving door in myoffice and I really couldn't get
any traction and, thankfully,the first thing I did, I would
(20:53):
say, is that I hired mysister-in-law yes, damn late and
you fired her.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
No, did you hear that she said something else that
goes against every wisdom outthere?
And then I hired mysister-in-law and things went
well.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I don't have a business plan.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I hired a family, clearly not Italian.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, well, I have two very successful clients,
like ultra successful clients,and they both have their
siblings in help in their office, okay, and run the business,
and what I learned from them wasthat having someone that always
has your back helps.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
yeah, all jokes aside you, you, we had uh richard
grove on from, uh, he is theentity mr wall storage, and he
he said the same thing.
Is that you know, because youknow, at the end of the day,
they got your, your back.
Exactly you know that you cantrust them.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right, and she's not going to quit and just walk out
the door.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, and even if you get mad at each other, it
doesn't end it, because you'restill related.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, right, right, all right.
So back to the Lucky HorseshoeClub.
Obviously she's being verymodest, because I do know one of
the things and that's how we'vemet you is that you do do a lot
of networking in Alpharetta.
You give back to the community,you do a lot.
I know you're a Rotarian.
Thank you for doing that.
I know that's important to you.
Is that been what you think hasbeen key as well?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You take care of clients but has the networking
helped or is that just an outletfor you?
So Rotary is not a businessorganization.
It's not where you go tonetwork, it's where you go to
give back to the community.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That sounds like a standard disclaimer to me.
But go ahead.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Well, because you're not supposed to join Rotary to
grow your business, that shouldcome naturally from being a good
person, okay.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
She said we had two of them.
So, chris, have you ever beenRotary?
The answer is no.
Chris, are you a good person?
Um no, that's why my businesshas not grown.
Naturally, that's why I've hadto go out there and advertise
the crap out of it I'm glad youpicked up on that, because I
didn't really want to I didn'twant to have to point it out.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, I know she's subtle, but she's good at it too
, all right I used to be catgrin going there I used to be
super active in chamber, okay,okay, and I was even years ago
the chairperson of theAlpharetta Chamber of Commerce
and that's where I would go tonetwork.
But again, I wasn't reallythere to network per se.
(23:07):
I was really there to give backto the community as well, to
help other people grow theirbusinesses and create this great
business community.
That was really my goal with it.
And now in Rotary I go there.
I really just go there becauseI enjoy the people and I enjoy
doing the good that we do forthe community.
(23:27):
But in turn that does come backto you.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, I mean, as you give, you get.
I mean, we've talked about thisa lot and while I'm saying the
president of Nary, it really isa nonprofit and you're giving.
And that's the message I gavethe leadership team is that,
look, you're all volunteeringhere.
I mean you hope to get a jobout of this.
You're in the wrong spot.
You're here to give back to the280 members we have.
You're here to support and helpthem, and that's the thing.
(23:54):
But you'll find that the moreyou give, the more you get.
But you've got to have thatgiving heart first.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You can't go into it going all right, what do I get?
What do I get?
Where's that lead?
Or?
If I get, then I'll give, it'snot going to happen.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, if I get something, then I'll get.
Yeah, you can't have thatmindset.
So obviously you went into itwith the right mindset about
doing that and doing business,and so you've grown with a
sister-in-law still wild to me.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, so she had a job.
Oh, actually it was duringCOVID and she had a job that she
didn't like so much and mybrother would always call me and
complain about like Mary didn'tlike her job, blah, blah, blah.
And with COVID we were startingto work a little bit more
hybrid.
Everyone had computers thatthey could take home with them
(24:39):
and bring back to the office,and so Mary doesn't even live in
Georgia, she lives in SouthCarolina, and I was like, well,
I think I can train her remotelyand have her work for the
company.
And she did.
She started working for thecompany doing all the things
pretty much that I didn't wantto do, like billing.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
That is a great hire.
That is an awesome hire, yeahshe's even intuitive in hiring.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I know wow, the higher your weak spots.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Man, she's good at this stuff, all right.
So um, intuition is hard to uhhard, hard to hard you can't
learn it yeah, yeah, so you haveit clearly, yeah 100%.
Were your family.
Were they entrepreneurs?
Was that?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes, okay, okay.
So that's.
That's another thing.
Um, I come from a family ofentrepreneurs, so I don't like
look at my business, are youokay?
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Oh, you can't say that he's dying.
Don't worry about that, we havehim on mute.
Don't worry, I know a goodprobate lawyer Dying.
Don't worry about that, we havehim on mute.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Don't worry, I know a good propane lawyer.
Do you have?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
a will.
Oh, he's back now.
I cut him off.
I mean, that's enough, hey, ifyou're going to die, die in your
own time.
I'm caring, I'm a caring host.
Okay, so your family?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
So, yes, so my grandfather's, on both sides One
was a wholesale florist inManhattan had his own business.
It was a family business withhis sister.
And my other grandfather hadmany different businesses.
He had a dry cleaning business,a jewelry business, all sorts
of crazy businesses.
And then my dad, he was ateacher.
He was teaching, but he alsostarted a summer camp business.
(26:25):
So his camping business hasbeen around since 1972 in New
York metro area and my brotherworks with him.
And so I've just been raised ina family where no one's ever
worked for a corporation.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Wow, yeah, that's great.
It's funny.
You said the grandparents,because I attribute my
grandparents to giving me theentrepreneurial spirit.
My dad opted out of our familybusiness years ago and did the
corporate thing, and I watchedhim and I said, no, I want to be
like grandpa.
And my grandmother which isalso wild had her own business,
(27:02):
because that did not happen inthe fifties and sixties.
And so I just looked at themand, yes, we always hold our
grandparents to the highestesteem.
I use that line in our businessall the time.
I said don't treat that houselike your house, don't treat
that house like your mom's house.
You treat that like yourgrandmother's house, because if
you treat it like grandma'shouse, you'll be doing things
the right way, and so that'samazing.
(27:24):
But obviously that's where youpicked up some of the intuition.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Did you ever work in any other businesses?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, I was a summer counselor in my dad's business,
but not like directly for my dad, because my dad, he franchised
out the camps after a few yearsand so I worked for one of the
franchisees.
What a great counselor.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
All right, so I just did this.
So I got to ask now because wejust talked about this.
One of the things I did withthe, with the team, was your
leadership in how you run yourbusiness.
I think and really being aleader is a nurture nature thing
, right, and so I'm on thenurture side, and I think and
really being a leader is anurture nature thing, right, and
so I'm on the nurture side andI think it's three formation
formative moments, and so one ofmy questions for you would be
(28:05):
what's your first job that youever had?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
My first job what well, besides like babysitting I
worked as a summer campcounselor at someone else's camp
, like as a counselor intraining, when I was like 13.
And then my real first job whenI had papers was at mcdonald's
so you did work at mcdonald's Iwill hire anyone that worked at
mcdonald's really it's so hardso what did you learn at
(28:32):
mcdonald's?
That I really couldn't hack ityeah nice, the-through is
impossible.
It was like before everythingwas automated.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I couldn't hear you.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Then I had to go cook something and then bring it
over and package it.
It wasn't like it was comingoff a conveyor or anything back
then.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So you learned that.
I think the second thing Ilearned was what was your first
supervision job, your first timeyou had actually supervised
people?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I'm going to ask you too this Ellen.
I'm trying to think I meanother than I don't even know,
maybe when I started my ownbusiness.
Wow, I mean I've had assistantsin the other law firms.
I guess I supervised them.
But yeah, I guess.
I guess after a few years I hadassistance.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And then the last thing I'd ask is who was your
best boss ever?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Oh Don Rollator.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And what made him best.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
It was like working for family.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
What did he teach you ?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
He taught oh, he taught me to make sure I return
every single phone call beforethe end of the day, that I
should never keep my files onthe floor in case there's a
flood.
I'm just laughing, but it wasreally just to make sure that my
files were present.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
That sounds crazy, but I actually, as you know, I
also co-host a home show, alanShameless plug Not even
shameless, I'm plugging thisthing, so you got to go out
there and check it out.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You have no shame.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I have none.
All Four Seasons Home Show.
Go check it out.
Extra1063.com.
I am now the host and going tobe sponsoring soon.
So you learned that You're thehost.
Now I'm going to be thesponsoring host.
Yeah, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Man, you're taking over everything.
Nary, this N.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Extra 1063 with its incredible five-mile radius.
Yes, I'm taking over the worldfive miles at a time, thank you.
But you learn not to put yourfiles on the floor.
And we learned from a guy atthe restoration company don't
ever keep cardboard in yourbasement.
So, everybody, you just learnedsomething Don't ever put
(30:35):
cardboard in your basement,because when a flood happens, it
goes to shit.
Yeah, I mean sorry, don't worry, it's not that podcasting this
isn't family friendly.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Okay, so you learned that and then.
So, with all those, what hashelped you as you're now leading
your firm and doing what you'redoing?
What do you use today to helplead your firm that you learned
from those three instances?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Well one.
I want my employees to feelvalue, that I value them.
I want them to treat ourclients with respect and each
client is on an equal playingfield, that every client's
important to us, whether they'rea pain in the neck or they're
(31:21):
really super nice or their thingis easy or hard to deal with.
That you want to just be goodto everyone who calls the office
and I want to teach the peoplein my office.
I want to teach them to learnmore than they knew when they
started working for me.
I would rather have someone whoworked at McDonald's, who knows
(31:43):
nothing about law, come to workfor me.
As long as they seem organizedand neat and caring and smart
enough to do the work, I cantrain them to work for me, as
long as they have that drive.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
How about that, ellen ?
I would ask you those three but, this is really Lisa's episode.
It is her episode.
I'm sorry.
We can talk about that nexttime.
No, we're not going to talkabout you.
Back to me, I mean Lisa.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
So what do you tend to let people go for?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
It takes a lot for me to let you go.
Um, I've let, I've let anemployee go because the employee
the employee was not really umdid not work well with, but it
was a long time it took a longtime for me to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
You know it's funny.
You say that because I do thinkthat's been one of those things
.
We always talk about, this asbusiness owners is that if you
talk to a consultant or I bringthem in they always say what?
Hire slowly, fire quickly.
What do we do?
The opposite, the exactopposite.
You know why?
Because these consultantsprobably have never been in my
shoes, your shoes, your shoes,your shoes.
(33:04):
On the other side of this,listen to this yeah, you got a
hole to fill and you need tofill it.
And you fill that hole Because,as Rummy said, donald Rumsfeld
said in the late 90s, you go towar with the army.
You've got and you're trying toget as much as you can in there
and it's hard and you know it'sin in.
You know, I've heard this fromguys like I'm totally wrong with
what I'm saying here, you won'tever see this in a book.
(33:26):
But we do, we hire and we takeour shot.
And then what do we do?
When they start to fail?
We go.
You know what?
I can coach him up.
Yeah, right, and I I mean, I'mcompassionate to a point.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
I'm a good trainer.
You know, I see potential inthis person, all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And so you hold on to them, probably, yeah, oh, and
they've got a couple of bigclients wrapped around, you know
them.
And so you, you find ways tosay, oh, I can keep.
Oh well, there's one redeemingquality, but yet there's 20
sitting in front of you and it'shard, right, it's hard to say.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I'm sorry I'm going to have to do this.
Well, and the unfortunate thingis is all the other employees
see what's going on.
They see this person needs togo and they see you not doing
anything, and that reallychallenges your culture.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, I hate to say that.
That was a good point.
Damn it, but it is so I I Ifeel your pain because I do the
same thing.
It is hard to do that.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
But now I look for different things in employees
than the normal person maybe.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Well, they're probably the right thing.
So let's hear.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Right, yeah, everybody is now.
Actually, you probably slammedon your brakes, pulled over to
the side and going.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, like two weeks from now there's going to be
this.
I want exponential growth likeLisa, I want to be just like
Lisa.
All right, go.
So a lot of times it's hard tofind a really good full-time
employee that can be with you,you know, nine to five or nine
to six or whatever your hoursare, every single day of the
week.
So for me to get good adminstaff, I hire people who can
flex for me either three days aweek or only mornings, or work
(35:04):
remotely some days, because ifI'm giving them the flexibility
that they need in their life,then when they're with me
they're on and they're giving200%.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Wow, that is counterintuitive.
But you know what this is, whyI have a cheese grater and
eyebrows.
And she has just floatedthrough, making business
happening All right, so that's agood one, admin.
What about lawyers?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
So I need another one .
Okay, I'm looking for anattorney right now, and that's
hard to find.
I have one associate that Ihired.
She's been with me for threeyears and I hired her out of law
school and what I told her islike her first year, she's going
to learn more in one year withme than she did in three years
(35:53):
of law school.
If she just lets me teach herand I would would say in my
office she got to learn morethan anyone she went to law
school with that's um, ah, fuckit.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Uh, that's a ballsy.
I love that.
I'm like come on, I love it.
Hey, baby, you can work with me.
You're gonna learn more, youknow what.
But you did, and she did she'samazing, you know, I believe it
though would you hire anotherone right out of law school yes
Speaker 2 (36:22):
wow yes, as long as they have the drive to to or the
ambition to learn, like, aslong as they want to be a sponge
, you know there's the big thing.
So they want to be a sponge, soyou're looking for that well,
I'm looking for someone who does, who isn't lazy, right, aren't
we all?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
all right now that's yeah, I mean, come on.
Okay, thank you, captain.
Obvious, so so am I, but Iclearly am blowing it because I
take the crowbar to my headevery freaking day.
So, uh, you pick that up, allright, so, but when you're there
, obviously she stayed with younow for three years oh, I want
her to be with me until I retireand she can take over the firm
(37:03):
yeah sure does she know that?
yes, why would you tell her that?
Oh shit, now I'm figuring itout, damn it, because I tell you
have so much to learn.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
You can learn more with her in one podcast than the
last 16 years, in fact you canlearn more from me.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
In 15 minutes you have the entire life and have a
go to this one podcast that's it.
This is the podcast, so listento everybody.
Listen to this one.
You know what we're into thisthing 30 minutes, uh or so, and
if you're still sticking here,you're about to learn a lot.
How has lisa figured this thingout?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I don't know no, she's not just lucky?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
no, obviously.
So you have a work ethic to youas well, and you know I do.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
I've always worked hard, maybe a little too hard.
I'm trying to kick it back alittle bit, but I need more
people to be able to kick backon my own a little bit.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
So how do you go find a lawyer um?
Speaker 2 (37:56):
so when I hired courtney, I hired her by doing a
posting at law school, at herlaw school, and um, and I had
just a few different attorneysinterview with me and um, all
right, hang on the posting tothe law school.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So, um, so my son's about to go to law school and he
was doing the typical UGAstudent Dad, I'm only going to
the top 50.
I'm like Austin, you realize.
I only went to the bottom 50schools.
I mean, of course, the bestengineering schools ever.
I said so let's slow our rollhere.
Big guy, I mean he's a reallysmart kid.
Where did you post?
(38:32):
Did you go Harvard Yale?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
She went to Mercer.
I posted at Mercer.
I posted at Mercer because I'mnot downtown Atlanta.
Okay, I'm a suburban lawyer ina smaller town I mean,
Alpharetta is big now but it'ssuburban and I think that
there's a different person who'slooking to do the downtown law
(38:57):
firm feel or vibe than someonewho wants to work in Alpharetta.
And so I felt, like the folksat Mercer being in Macon and
coming from all over the statethat they were, probably I'd
have a better chance of findingsomeone who would be okay in the
(39:17):
suburban setting.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Okay, yeah, she's still smarter than me.
I mean, not that that was evera question after the beginning,
but it's just one thing afteranother.
It's just good thinking, thinkabout that for a minute right,
know where you are and know whatyour candidate will look like
and what that looks like.
I mean that's huge, because inthe law world obviously it's way
more niched.
(39:41):
We just figured out.
It's more niche than that.
But if you want to go downtown,her downtown vibe thing.
I love that.
She said it like that.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, because those people would use you as a
stepping stone to get to that.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Correct, yeah, and you're going to come in and
they're going to wonder why theyweren't working 100 hours a
week.
And they're going to wonder whythey weren't working 100 hours
a week and they wonder why youdidn't tell them how bad they
were and why you didn't grindthem into the ground, because
that's what those guys are doing.
That's the only thing I can atleast explain to my son before
he does this is that there's awhole world and you're going to
have to go figure it out and Idon't know the answer.
(40:11):
Well, tv's made that sort ofsexy, right?
I mean, I love suits yeah, oh,I love suits you can't.
You're the only lawyer ever whosaid that oh my god, I binge
watched it one summer no, youdid not the whole entire.
Thing, oh my god, you did not.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Oh my god I have a really um busy social life now
yeah, well, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
How realistic was it?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
oh well, it's not like my firm well, it's not even
realistic at all because I Ihave two other friends who do
the high powered law stuff wehaven't talked about and they
were like dude, you know thatnobody can do M&A and do these.
I'm like you are.
Yeah, I get that, but but it'sstill so cool he pulls it off
and he comes in there.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
He knows everything.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Everything about every aspect of the law.
I'm like dude.
I said as a non-lawyer I saidI'm so digging he goes dude,
you're such a I can't say whathe said.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
But let's just say it started with W and ended with E
and might arrive with myimpression of suits is you son
of a bitch?
Cause they were alwaysbackstabbing.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
No, and my thing is, I don't give a goddamn what you
think I'm like.
I use that line all the time.
I said I should have been alawyer, although I hate law and
I can't, and you don't have abrain, remember that, and I
don't have a ring.
Brain, brain, oh brain.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I don't have, I can't do that, so, oh my god, you
have a computer, no brain.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
All right, guys, this is the unicorn we have found
her.
She not only knows how to dobusiness, she's in the world how
to do law and she binge-watchedsuits and liked it as a lawyer.
And you're like what?
Because I've been to, I mean Idid, we binge-watched suits the
whole time and I would call troy, my pocket judge up in North
Carolina.
I'm like dude, did you knowthis one?
(41:56):
And this one?
He goes.
Chris, you know you can't dothat.
I'm like I know, but it's socool, it's TV, it was the best
it would be during the day, andthen at night he'd be pulling
out this and the next thing ohmy God, it thing, oh my god,
it's the best ever.
Um, I'm, I'm, I'm.
Now I'm gonna go back and bingewatch after band of brothers,
(42:16):
all right.
So back to uh, lisa, shall we?
All right, it's your show.
All right, lisa?
Uh, you're at your stage,you've scaled, you've gotten to
this point now and you'relooking at the other side where
she could take over your firm.
The uh, the associate broughtin.
What do you want to do?
I mean, what are your goals nowfor the next five, 10, 20,
because you're very young?
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Okay, so I'm not that young, okay, I'm not even young
.
But so I'd say, over the nextfive years, I want to.
I don't know that I even wantto grow, grow, but I need to
grow.
I to have two other, thelistener the look on chris's
(43:00):
face is priceless.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
She was like.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
That was like saying there is no god with three years
of podcasting down the tube, soyou don't need to scale sorry,
yeah, you know what and andpodcast.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You know we're probably not even gonna air this
thing.
If you guys listen to thisthing, by the grace of god you
got to listen to this onebecause, uh, and by the grace of
god, you take some of thesefreaking lessons, because even
if you just listen to her,you'll grow, grow what?
Speaker 3 (43:29):
what's the?
Speaker 1 (43:29):
lesson, though I?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I don't know if you have to be smart like lisa,
don't be dumb like chris.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
What?
Speaker 2 (43:35):
if you are good to your clients and your and your
or your customers, right, you'llget more and then you'll have
to grow.
I feel like I have to growisn't that what we all try?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
to do a burden, a burden of being so good at
everything.
Lisa says I have to grow,because they all keep coming to
me.
I have to grow.
I'm like, oh my god, yeah,that's what I keep saying.
Oh my god, I have to keepgrowing.
Or, holy shit, where the hellis everybody?
Speaker 3 (44:11):
that's my line so maybe she needs to explain what
being good to your customerslooks like All right.
Well, what do you do differentthan an other attorney?
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Okay, I don't act smarter than my clients.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Oh, you don't talk down to them.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I do not.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Chris, write that down.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I mean, I guess, it guess the same thing happens.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
If I've got someone, but in the house though I am.
That's the problem.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Just quit wielding your brain like a club and you
might get someplace.
But I do know more about that.
But this is an interestingthing that you say, because I
kind of want my lawyer to bereally smart.
And how do I know you're reallysmart if you're playing that
down?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Well, because you'll know, because I'll produce the
results that you need.
You're just going to have to gowith it one time and see if it
works out for you, and thenyou'll trust me.
That's just how I feel.
I don't use big words, I don'ttry and overcomplicate a deal.
I'll tell people if you want meto review your contract or you
(45:18):
want me to review your lease ordo this transaction for you.
I am not going to send yousomething back with a million
red lines.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I'm not going to correct you.
There's one answer right there.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
I'm not going to correct you the commercial real
estate agent says yeah, there'sone answer right there I'm not
going to.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
The commercial real estate agent says yeah, because
we hate it when we use thestandard GAR form more often
than not.
Georgia Association of Realtors.
And anytime somebody goes, oh,I want my realtor to look at it
it's like, oh God, it's going tocome back just bleeding,
dripping red.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Well, it's funny that you say that, because I have a
huge transaction where I'mrepresenting the seller, that
because I have a hugetransaction where I'm
representing the seller and wekind of wanted something easy,
an easy contract, right, so Icould either draft something or
the purchaser's attorney coulddraft something.
But what I suggested at the endof the day was, I said, just go
(46:06):
with the GAR form and let's seeif we could just use it, it
works, it works and let's see ifwe can just use it.
It works, it works.
There's a lot of.
There are some things thataren't added to the GAR form,
that another attorney might addto a GAR form, but at the end of
the day, they're not necessary.
They're not and it works.
(46:27):
The GAR form works for a reason.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
But this is a great example of you using your
intuition.
How do you train Courtney, yourassociate, to have that same
intuition?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Through osmosis Nice.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
She rubs her arm too.
I'm going to go work there fora day.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
I let her actually like.
Sometimes I'm like, hey, comein my office, I'm making a phone
call.
I just want her to hear how Italk to the people on the other
end work through a situation,how I talk to the people on the
other end work through asituation.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
You're not going to learn it all in one day.
I've been doing this over 30years, so it takes time.
You don't know that, people.
Everyone's going to ask you toclose something between
Christmas and New Year's, right,and other attorneys are going
to say, no, I'm giving away mysecret, but no, I can't close
(47:13):
this because we take off betweenChristmas and New Year's or
whatever.
And I say I can do it Because Iknow that even if I have a
small staff, nine times out often someone else is not.
They're not going to get it tothe finish line for me.
You know what I mean.
Like someone else is going tofumble or say we're going to do
(47:33):
it after this date.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Oh, so you're waiting for the bank to fall on their
face?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Someone.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And you're like, oh, I was there for you.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, so we'll do it first week of January.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Genius.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Oh my gosh, she's so good, she is really good.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (47:48):
She's playing chess and I'm eating my checkers, my
friend.
That's the problem.
I'm not even playing checkers,I'm just chewing on them.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
I mean we'll be ready if everyone else is ready, but
a lot of times it's justsomething happens at the end of
the year and they can't get itdone.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Something happens.
Oh my gosh, lisa.
I could keep going on and onand on, just because I want to
learn and I want to be better.
But I think I need osmosis.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
But we can't do it for everything we need to call
your therapist again.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
I know well, yeah, she's on vacation, she can't she
can't fit me in between.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
That's funny.
I called her and she justpicked up the phone I know she
she said something about herrates changing.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I don't know what that is, uh.
So, lisa, this has been awesome.
Actually, we've been talkingabout a lot of stuff and I would
have to say, as terms, aslawyers go, actually in terms of
just people, she's fun andinteresting and really smart.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah, smart, but doesn't flaunt it.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
She didn't and I can see customers can go.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
You know what?
This is an attorney thatactually speaks a normal
language that I can understand.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, if you're an Alpharetta, you're in the.
Actually you want to work atjust an Alpharetta, right, you
want to work in the state ofGeorgia, right?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Oh no, I I close anything in the state Nice.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
All right, you got to call Lisa Schippel, do it, make
it happen.
If you guys want to get somework done, she'll work with
small business owners.
Of course, she loves you, allright.
And if you want to get luckyand understand how to make
things happen and get bigger,maybe you call Lisa Schippel.
I'm coming up with taglines,I'm trying to work out Lisa
Schippel taglines.
(49:29):
But she doesn't even need toadvertise, bro.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
No, because she doesn't want to grow, she just
want to grow.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
That actually just.
I mean, almost Did I ruin yourshow.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
It's 100%.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Oh my God, 100%, hey I don't want to grow, I have to
grow.
Oh, is that what happens.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
I'm just nice to people and they oh, give me
money.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Oh my god so, guys, I'm gonna go with germany on
that one, but but again, wecan't have lisa leave without
asking our famous four questions.
Number one give us actually,you haven't written a book yet I
did oh my god, we're gonna haveto have a book club.
Oh, did you write a?
Speaker 3 (50:11):
book Alan?
No, I haven't, but I wouldrather hear how Lisa wrote her
book.
All right, lisa.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
That's a whole other show.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
I bet it was like.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
I just wrote a book.
So what's a book you wouldrefer to everybody on the
podcast?
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Well, oh, I just read last year Younger Next Year.
It's a health book.
They have a male and a femaleversion of the book and it just
helps you, you know, think abouthow to stay healthy as you get
older, so that you don't have asmany medical problems later in
life so, uh, bourbon every night.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
wine check uh.
Hamburger check, steak, steakcheck.
Uh, pressed cider mate Drinkapple cider that's been
fermented, check, check.
So we're on track, I think.
I think we read that book.
All right, great, all right,that's number one.
Give us the favorite feature ofyour home.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Okay, I told you you would laugh.
It is my heated bidet toiletseat.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
I will not laugh, but I will not use it.
Thank you, we put them in andpeople say bidet, once you use
it, you'll never.
I'm like dude.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Once you have the heated toilet seat, you just
want to sit on a heated toiletseat.
She's been to Japan.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Does it sing songs?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
for you.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Maybe that's where all our good ideas come from.
It might be, but I'm tellingyou, actually, I just sold a
client on a heated floor.
I'm going to tell you, I'm inthe South and I have a heated
floor in my bathroom and thismorning I spent five minutes in
there going oh, I just love myheated floor because it's cool.
But a heated bidet I'm just notsure I can go there.
But I like that.
You're right.
(51:44):
I would laugh if you got me Allright.
So we need a diy nightmarestory.
I know you told me you didn'thave one, but uh, we'll skip
that one and we're gonna go tocustomer service, shall we?
Let's?
Because we are customer servicefreaks.
Oh my god, let's go do it whatabout it?
(52:08):
so she clearly doesn't know.
Yeah, what is a pet?
Speaker 3 (52:11):
peeve of yours when you're the customer.
Regarding customer service.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
When someone doesn't call me back or respond to my
email and I have to ask them.
And I'm not the kind of personthat just will pepper you all
day.
But if you don't respond to mein 24 hours, 48 hours, it's the
ghosting thing and it'shappening.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
And it's not the kids , it's grown-ass adults.
It's grown-ass adults, it'sgrown-ass adults.
Yeah, let's talk about that fora minute.
It drives me freaking nutswe're the health state.
You only make money if youfreaking answer your phone or
call back and people still don'tcall back.
I don't care if your building'salready sold.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
At least give me the courtesy and let me know brother
, I would tell you every timepeople say that I'm going to
challenge them, I bet you don'tget as many calls, texts or
emails that I get every day,because I swear to God, my
number is so flipping high rightnow in terms of the spam calls
and other stuff going on.
I know I can get back.
It's a lack of focus and that'sthe hard part, because I can't
(53:04):
figure out how to get thesethings out of the way.
I think it's bad parenting.
You know what?
Speaker 3 (53:08):
Can we bring back spanking?
I think so.
Corporal punishment and thenghosting Hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
You ghost me and you're over 50, I'm spanking you
.
They deserve to be spanked.
I think so too.
Bring back caning.
Whoa, I didn't say that.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yeah, you did.
Corporal punishment.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
No, I just said a little spanking.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
I'm public flogging.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Answer your phone.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
All right, my mother was all can I say another thing
that bothers me?
Yeah, please don't call me,text me and email me all within
yes, 10 seconds the full courtpress I.
I respond right away.
So when someone's like gettingme, it all goes to my one phone
right.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
I may be in a meeting .
I may be at the doctor.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Give me a minute all right, let's talk about that for
a minute because we had to go.
But we gotta keep talkingbecause, all right, this one I
got a friend of mine who sendsme a text, then a text than a
text, and he puts all of ittogether and he calls that drip
texting.
He goes that's how I get yourattention.
I'm like you realize, I'm infront of a client a lot of times
when you're doing that and it'sjust blowing my phone up yeah,
(54:15):
you get my attention in the factthat I'm really annoyed at you
exactly yeah yeah, so he saidthat, too, he goes.
Well, you called me back, didn'tyou?
I'm like don't, don't, let meaffirm this, because this is not
good maybe, maybe, go for everyextra text.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
I'm going to wait another half hour to call you
back.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
I do.
That's true, though how aboutthe people who are just so
impatient?
They think if I'm the biggestpain in the ass, I'm the squeaky
wheel You're going to grease me?
No, bro, I ain't greasing shit,I'm going to fire you.
Yeah, absolutely.
Get ready.
She is Trump what you, trumpwhat you can't see that she's a
nice trump you know what?
I'll take that one.
Yeah, all right, all right, allright.
(54:55):
Last thing I can't rememberwhat it was but it's got to be
good.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
No, we skipped one.
That's why we're done yeah, thediy one well, the diy one.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
You could tell a story about how you shot
yourself with a hammer orsomething or or stepped on a
nail, um, right through my footas I tried to put up a a-foot
header by myself.
Yeah, I've done that too.
I mean, I've got so many DIYnightmare stories.
I did not light the house onfire, absolutely, and you can't
prove it, mary Williams.
(55:23):
I did not put her.
The kitchen did not go on firebecause of me.
That was not a client, I'mkidding, but um, but it's, it's.
I got so many great diynightmare stories, um, because
that's how I teach my guys everytime you use something stupid,
you gotta learn from it.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
Don't do it again yeah, and if they laugh at you,
it's kind of fun team buildingthing.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah, they love it.
All.
Right, guys, if you didn'tlearn something, that's on you,
because I think this podcast iskilling it and you know know
what?
I'm not the only one.
The people have spoken.
We're in the top 5%, alan.
We are rocking and rolling.
We're making it happen.
People are listening.
And guess what?
Next year, in 2025, if you'restarting to listen to this thing
(56:04):
, we're going to be on anotherpodcast platform.
We're going to be part of anetwork.
You guys are going to be ableto hear us in other areas and
work.
You guys are going to be ableto hear us in other areas.
And you got to go check thisout.
Spread the word to your friends.
If you didn't do that, then Ihate you.
All right, don't do that.
I didn't hate you.
Uh, you learned something fromlisa shippa.
Go check her out.
Lisa shippa, law in alpharettaor all of georgia.
You want to figure out how todo business easy?
(56:25):
You can do it.
Let's get out of here.
We gotta go.
Cheers everybody.
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