January 21, 2025 • 45 mins
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
dollar shave club.
So they took something that was, like you know, awkward going
into the store and typicallyrazors are behind like a lock
and key, you gotta ask somebodyto come and unlock it to be able
to, you know, buy the box ofrazors.
Like it was a pain in the butt.
And so they took that and madethat experience like convenient,
where just you pay a monthlyfee and then you get razor sent
(00:21):
to you every month.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Like super easy and it took off I'm sorry, but yeah,
you can go in there and buy allthe shit to make meth, but you
can't get a razor blade becauseit's behind the thing.
So we could be meth of the monthclub welcome to the small
business safari, where I helpguide you to avoid those traps,
pitfalls and dangers that lurkwhen navigating the wild world
of small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
(00:43):
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in adventure team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
All right, alan, I know youdidn't hear the ding that says
(01:12):
let's get started.
But believe or not?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
it's already done.
I don't trust you, I know, butI I've been testing it.
We've been doing this for threeand a half years.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I don't trust you all right, so I've gone to new
technology.
What the hell did you just saynew technology?
This guy can, can't handle it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
God, I fell down almost, but no, I've done it.
I've gone to recording our podson the cloud.
Dude, I'm with it, I'm hip, I'mthere, I'm just like all about
it.
All of a sudden, I've had somany people on the podcast, you
know, saying, hey, I can techyou.
Man, I still have to reach outto you and then email you.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
That makes me sound old, right I?
Don't know what the hell, itsucks, it's comforting.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
But no, we're recording.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
We are recording and I've got AI taking notes.
That's right.
Who is AI?
It is not Arthur Treacher'sintelligence, it is AI,
artificial intelligence.
I'm all about it now.
Yeah, I know, you are big, I am, I am.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Chat, gpt Anything you can do to make Chris's life
easier.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh my gosh, I can't tell you how quick some of these
things have happened.
It's helped me build socialmedia strategies for my business
.
It's helped me.
You know, I uploaded.
I took a lot of Stephanie Ican't even say her name, but
Stephanie's Advice Uploaded allthat stuff up to chat and now
I've been asking questions andit knows who.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I am.
Are you kind of like on thecommercials where you're laying
in bed and you're like and ifyou named it like, you know,
suzy, suzy, I don't feel verygood today.
Can I talk to you?
And the AI talks back, are you?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
replacing your therapist with AI.
That's a long pause, everybody,if you're in your truck, you
got me so remember we hadanother guy in the pod who said
he was talking back and forth tohis AI in the car.
Guess who's doing that, are youreally?
It is cool too.
I'm like well, tell me a littlemore about that.
Well, chris, since you asked,let me tell you a little bit
more.
Oh my God, this has been cool.
(03:04):
So I'm not all the way thereyet.
I'm no AI expert, but if youwant to pay me money to teach
you AI, I'd be happy to do it.
That's a glowing endorsement.
I think that's at least worth aquarter.
All right, can we get to ourguest please?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I think we should, I mean he's international?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Wait, not yet we.
We had a big event and we'renot supposed to date them, do
all this other stuff, but we hada big event here in atlanta.
We had snow an inch and a halfand I did what everybody else
did, even though I came from aplace that had more snow in two
minutes than we get the entiretwo years here in atlanta.
But I had to do my obligatorysnow picture and I posted it out
(03:42):
on facebook.
Go check it out.
Um, if you don't follow me, I'mon Facebook and Insta.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You can go check that out and for those who are
looking, this was full beforethe snow.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I was snowed in for at least a day and so, yeah,
that big bullet's gone, baby,the bourbon is gone.
Chris had to do something, so Iwas drinking bourbon and doing
all that.
Stayed warm, stayed warm.
I did stay warm.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
So that was fun.
Did you uh cook while you werein?
Is that that's what everybodydoes.
I went outside and cooked inthe snow.
I got the big green egg goingand I got a dutch oven out there
and uh did a smoked chicken andwild rice soup while the snow
was coming down baking bread onthe egg.
It was great oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I know you sent me a picture of your pizza that you
do in the uni, which uh has.
That episode has gone out andI'm already getting some
responses from Ooni.
Okay, I lied.
Maybe you should hashtag him.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I gotta, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta do a little more
promotion on that.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So let's get to our guest.
Shall we Wait?
I got one more thing.
No, I'm kidding.
All right, stu, this is my life, stu, stu, we are back, and Stu
McLaren's on.
He is going to teach us allabout how to build memberships
and how to build customerstickiness, how to get people to
stay in your biz and grow yourbiz, and tell us how memberships
are the be-all, end-all andwhere everybody's going.
I think At least that's whatI'm hoping, because that's why I
(04:57):
brought him on.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Well, so, stu, first of all, if we got to start off
with, where are you from?
Well, fellas, it is definitelycold and it is definitely a lot
more snow where I'm at, and it'sjust south of Toronto, ontario,
canada.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
We love Canadians.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
We have had a lot of Canadians.
We never had one that we didn'tlike.
You know what we have not?
And Stu, don't break that, Okaybuddy Pressure is on.
Okay, as we say right before wego on the radio hey, don't suck
.
Okay.
So you grew up.
You went to university up inCanada.
What were you doing first?
(05:37):
What was the reason you went toschool and what'd you get out
to go do?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Well, I went through for business.
That's what I got my degree in.
Now I'd love to say it was likea straight, easy path, but it
wasn't.
I failed out.
My first year of university gotthe pink slip that said you may
no longer proceed in the honorsbusiness program.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Wow, failing out of the honors business, that's
solid, and they didn't even giveyou like that.
Hey, you can go to remedialbusiness.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
No no, it was basically an all or nothing.
You're either.
You're either an honors oryou're nothing.
And I was nothing at that point.
And, uh, I was playing soccerat university, so that's really
what had my attention.
And um, but anyway, I talked myway back in, and so I went to a
professor and I said hey,listen, what can I do over the
summer?
I want to stay in this program.
(06:23):
She gave me a few extraassignments, and the reason that
I got the pink slip is you hadto maintain a certain average,
and so the extra assignments Idid bumped up my average enough
that I skated in by the skin ofmy teeth into second year.
And then something switchedthough.
Third year I went from bottomof my class to top of the class,
(06:44):
and the reason was I read abook called Jumpstart your Brain
, and it was by a gentleman bythe name of Doug Hall, and it
was all about how to think morecreatively.
And so I just started applyingwhat I was learning from the
book to my schoolwork.
So I'd ask questions like howcan I make this 40 page essay
fun for my professor to read?
(07:05):
Because I was thinking like howcan I make this 40 page essay
fun for my professor to read,because I was thinking like this
must suck for them.
They've got hundreds ofstudents writing 40 page essays.
That would be awful, and so Iwould come up with all kinds of
creative things for myschoolwork, my presentations,
and the short version is itlanded me top of my class.
It landed me the jobs that Iwanted.
It landed me the girl of mydreams, who's now my wife, and
(07:28):
so when I graduated university,I did not want to go into or
down the traditional path.
I didn't want to go into thecorporate world, even though
that's what I was going throughschool for.
Like.
I didn't, couldn't see myselfin a cubicle, couldn't see
myself wearing a shirt and tie,couldn't see myself being told
when I could or could not go onvacation, and so I resigned from
(07:48):
a very well-paying job, andmuch to my parents' dismay, and
I decided to start my ownbusiness, and the very first
thing that I did was I startedspeaking to other high school
and college students about howto use their creativity to get
more of the things that theywanted in life.
That eventually led me torealizing that business owners
(08:14):
could benefit from the sameinformation, and my very first
business that really had anyteeth around.
It was a service-based businesslike an agency, and that was
where everything began for me.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I got to back up.
So how did you come across thatbook?
I'm just having a hard timeimagining somebody at college
saying I'm going to read aself-help book.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Jumpstart your Brain.
That's what I was writing down.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah Well, it was actually a video in a marketing
class of Doug Hall, and thereason it lit me up was because
here was a guy in a Hawaiianshirt and shorts, no shoes or
socks.
He was shooting Nerf guns atcorporate CEOs and he had built
this business where fortune 500companies were paying him a
(09:02):
hundred thousand dollars forthree days of brainstorming.
So I saw that and I'm like thisis amazing, like I want to do
that, and so then I looked himup, found his book, and that's
how it all began all right.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
So I know, I know it's a business podcast, but I'm
sure most of the guys that areout there listening are going
okay, help me get the girl of mydreams.
So did you shoot her with anerf gun too?
Is that honestly?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
yeah, everybody.
As soon as you said girl, mydream, she know every one of
them just went uh-huh, uh-huh,uh-huh business blah blah blah.
This is boring.
Tell us about the chick yeah,no, it was.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Uh, it was not nerf guns, but essentially, um, okay,
here was the game plan, fellas,I think.
So I in my mind uh said tomyself okay, I want to create
the most epic first date so that, even if she doesn't want to
continue dating with me, justher telling her friends about
(09:55):
this date, there's a highprobability that one of them
would want to date me.
So, uh, that's what I ended upcreating this epic first date.
It included, like a bunch ofclues that were placed all
around the city with flowerpetals.
There was me with a fullbouquet of flowers dinner the
whole nine yards.
But it was a memorable nightand it definitely secured the
(10:16):
deal.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Solid bro.
All right, everybody, goldnuggets.
You want to squirt the chickyour dreams, maybe for just a
night?
Drop some petals.
Petals, have a bouquet, and ifthat one doesn't work, she's got
to tell everybody else how epicit was all right so how long
you been married now?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
uh.
So we dated for seven yearsbefore I could convince her that
I was the man of her dreams.
And then, uh, we've now beenmarried for 17 years.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Whoa See, when you start that big, though, my
question is how do you keep itup?
I?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
mean you haven't missed a birthday, a holiday,
valentine's day.
Everyone's got to be better youcan't mail one in.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
That's pressure.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
The proposal was probably my favorite because I,
in a mind games kind of way,tricked my wife into organizing
a surprise birthday party for meso that we could get all of our
family and friends together.
And then I proposed to her infront of everybody and nobody
knew.
And that was an epic turn ofevents too, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Dude, now that's a business plan right there Dead.
Eye.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Mind.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Cribs by Stu Right right.
How to get your wife toorganize her own surprise
engagement party.
What, but I don't even know.
How did you know she was goingto say yes, ooh.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
All right, he just built total credibility on
whatever he sold.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
But he was at it for seven years.
I mean, you know, oh, come onWell, and there was social
pressure there, all family andfriends were there so I figured
there was lots of things to myadvantage.
Solid move, all right.
So you got kids too.
I suppose because I see thegreatest dad ever in the back.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I do yeah which.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Alan begs to differ because I think, alan, what are
you up to now like 15, 18 kids?
How many you got?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
now who's counting Three?
I mean it's amazing how manygreatest dad ever posters do you
have in your background, chris?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
um, don't suck yeah do, better do better do we bring
up my?
Daughter, yet no uh yeah, ohyeah, so yeah, this is good.
So how many kids you got?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
uh, two kids, so, uh, my uh eldest is my daughter,
marla, so she's turning 14 thisyear, and then my youngest, our
youngest, is Sam, and we adoptedSam from South Africa when he
was one, and so he turns 11 thisyear.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Oh, beautiful, well done man.
I tell you what I've said, thatto a couple of friends who were
adopted.
And I said you know yourparents truly do love you.
I said I was just awhoops-a-daisy.
What happened?
And I didn't have to work hardLiterally every month.
We said, okay, let's starttrying to have a kid Bam.
I was like, can we get a littlepractice in here?
I mean, we're done.
(12:52):
Oh my God, that was it.
So that's great man, excellentWay to go, good stuff.
So obviously you're teachingthem all about how to be a great
businessman and a great fatherand husband.
So let's talk a little bit moreabout your journey.
So you've written a couple ofbooks.
How many books?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So I've self-published one, and then my
latest is my very firstpublished traditionally
published book calledPredictable.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Profits, so I call that two yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Right, good counting, chris.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Thank you Alan.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
That's a nice fat book too, compared to yours.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So how many books do you have, Alan?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
You know it's not worth writing one if I can't
write a big fat book like Studid.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Can we let the adults talk for a minute?
Thank you, stu.
So I've written my own book aswell, with big words and
pictures, and I did a lot ofcoloring in there and there's
there's even a couple of graphs.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Hey, buddy, listen, I love pictures too.
That's like in in this book.
I got plenty, of plenty ofpictures for everybody at
different, different spots.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
We're on the same page.
Yeah Wow, that's a little bitdifferent than me.
Mine usually just had onefinger.
What I thought about you, whatI think about customers,
corporate world, what I thoughtabout the corporate world, so
predictable profits.
So, in that labor of love, thatthat book that you published,
tell us a little bit about howit came about and why you
decided to publish that one.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Well, I had my very first business that really kind
of took off, like I mentioned,was a service based business,
and it was growing and it wasdoing well mid six figures.
Everything was great, exceptfor the fact that I was working
night and day and I was at thebeck and call of my clients and
that's fine when you're single.
But then I got married with Amyand we were talking about
(14:37):
having kids and I quicklyrealized the writing was on the
wall Like if something didn'tchange about the business, I was
not going to be the presenthusband and father that I wanted
to be.
So what I realized was that thebusiness model itself was
broken, and so I was talking toa friend of mine about, like
what I could do to change, andhe said, stu, why don't you just
(14:58):
teach other people what you'redoing for your clients and do it
inside of a membership site andinstead of like serving clients
one-on-one, you could now teachone time and serve hundreds, if
not thousands, of people whowould pay you every single month
to access that information.
Now I thought in the moment Iwas just like man, that sounds
(15:19):
amazing.
And then, once I dug into it,like the back then this was
2008,.
The technology was not what itis today, back then, and so I
was in dealing with things likeHT, access files and server
settings, like stuff that's wayabove my pay grade and and I was
(15:39):
frustrated by it.
And so I was talking to anotherfriend of mine expressing that
frustration and he said, well,why don't you just create your
own membership solution?
And fellas, I got to be honestlike I was kind of a little bit
annoyed because he's telling methis and I'm like, is he not
listening to anything?
I'm sitting here saying likeI'm having trouble with the tech
and he's telling me to go anddevelop a solution.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Be more tech.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, exactly.
And I said, dude, like, are younot listening?
I'm like I'm not a developer,and so that sounds like me the
next morning after I go.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Man, I need better friends, but it's usually
because I'm hungover.
But so at that point you'relike dude, I need better friends
.
Then you slept on it and youwent.
Huh, you might be right.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah.
Well then he said to me he'slike well, look, I've got a
developer, why don't we worktogether?
So we did, and we created ourvery first software solution.
It was called Wishlist Member,and it went on to become the
world's number one membershipplatform for WordPress.
When I sold my shares in thatcompany a few years later, we
(16:43):
were powering over 70,000 onlinecommunities and memberships
were powering over 70,000 onlinecommunities and memberships,
and so being behind the scenesof that is where I learned what
worked and what didn't when itcame to growing a profitable
membership site.
And so, since that point, Ihave been teaching business
owners in every kind of marketyou could think of, from
photography and calligraphy tofitness, finance, music, art,
(17:04):
health, dog training.
We even have a woman, hollyGeorge, who's got a membership
site teaching people how to makeballoon animals for crying out
loud with thousands of members.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
But my point is is that this has been my world
Ellen, why don't you giveyourselves the death stare of
balloon animals?
Why didn't I think of that Damnballoon?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
animals.
Some of the markets would beshocking in terms of how people
have built these incrediblebusinesses, but that's been my
world for the better part ofnearly two decades.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
All right.
So let's go back two decades.
You brought up something andwe've talked about this before,
alan and that is you're sittingthere and you're creatively
frustrated in the first hand andthe guy says, well, why don't
you just create a membershipsite?
And you're sitting there andyou're creatively frustrated in
the firsthand and the guy says,well, why don't you just create
a membership site?
And you're like, well, uh, atthe time you probably go through
the three phases of truth,right?
First you deny it uh, or I'msorry, you ignore then you deny
(17:55):
and then you vehemently acceptit.
Um, and that's how I got.
My business is like I'm sittingthere, I had this great idea.
I was going to buy a company, Iwas going to do this, and I was
sitting on the back of thisguy's uh deck here in my
neighborhood and he just said,well, why don't you come up with
winning a hundred?
Call Chris, because that'severybody does that anyway in
our neighborhood says, okay,chris will tell you about the
(18:15):
house.
I mean, let's, why don't you dothat?
I'm like, now, that's stupid.
Next morning I'm like, yeah, oh, that's not.
Oh, wow, that's got some legs.
So you surrounded yourselfaround good people.
That's my question Did youpurposely pick these people out
and just keep talking to themabout?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
these things.
Careful, Stu, because I thinkChris is going to replace me.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Alan, you're irreplaceable.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
There is something to be said for that, though.
Like legit, you know,intentionally, you know, picking
people that can speak into yourlife at that time.
Yes, I was, and I still amtoday in, you know, different
groups and masterminds of otherbusiness owners.
I do think that that's reallyimportant, because sometimes
you're too close to it.
(19:05):
You know you're too close to itand you need perspective, and
that's certainly been somethingthat's really helped me in my
entrepreneurial journey as well.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
So I've got a dumb question, but I'm good at that.
So what you built thismembership, Chris reminds me
often.
I'm not a smart man, but I knowwhat love is.
Yes, you do.
You're way better at that thanme.
Yeah, it sounds like what youbuilt was almost like a
masterclass sort of a scenario.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And because when I think of memberships, I'm
thinking of, like you mentioned,the gym membership and and the
carwash.
You know the monthly, you knowmembership, but you're you were
talking about a balloon animalperson who's teaching other
people how to do balloon animals.
Yeah, so were you kind ofcatering to people who are just
getting memberships, of peoplewho wanted to learn about what
(19:55):
they had to offer, or are wetalking about recurring business
, like in, say, chris's handymanservice?
Now, I'm in commercial realestate.
I don't see how you can do that, but we don't need to talk
about that.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, you know, I mean not for nothing.
Maybe we do, maybe it is abreaker, I don't know.
We can see how creative Stu isAll right, let's go, we can talk
.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I got examples for you.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
As we said at the beginning Stu don't suck.
Yeah, well, okay.
Or just suck, don't suck much.
Yeah, don't suck as much as wedo.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
There are really like four types of memberships.
Okay, so this is for everybodywho's got like a product-based
business.
So, instead of like hoping thatcustomers come back and buy the
product again, set it up as arecurring membership.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
So I'll give you some examples.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, like a, like a razor to the month, tie of the
month, tea of the month, coffeeof the month, uh, subscription
boxes, these are all examples.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I will tell you, when I got sucked into, it was
called Bespoke Post and it was aman box because my daughter,
who at the time only had astarter job before she went back
to PA school, decided she hadto spend every dollar she could
because she was spending with usto save money or staying with
us to save money.
So she was getting a box everymonth.
So I got the Bespoke Post boxand I'm telling you, man, it was
(21:13):
awesome.
So back to your point.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I think they need to rename it.
I have no idea what that is.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I don't either and I can barely say it, but I loved
what.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
I got it's great.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, so all right.
So, but see, I see what you're,so let's keep going.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
There's a lot of great ideas on this.
Yeah, example um would be the umuh dollar shave club.
So they took something that was, like you know, awkward.
Going into the store andtypically razors are behind like
a lock and key, you got to asksomebody to come and unlock it
to be able to, you know, buy thebox of razors.
(21:46):
Like it was a pain in the butt.
And so they took that and madethat experience like convenient,
where just you pay a monthlyfee and then you get razor sent
to you every month.
Like super easy and it took off.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I'm sorry, but yeah, you can go in there and buy all
this shit to make meth, but youcan't get a razor blade because
it's behind the thing.
So we can be meth of the monthclub.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You could probably get a lot of subscribers, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I deal with handymen and we've yeah, yeah, that's
anyway.
It's a recurring joke in ourworld about how bad it is.
Anyway, sorry Del, it's a shameno worries.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So okay, so that's an example of a product-based
membership.
Second type would definitely bein your world and that's a
service-based membership.
So you mentioned the car wash.
Like we have a car wash rightacross the road from us.
The way they price it isbrilliant.
Like we have a car wash rightacross the road from us.
The way they price it isbrilliant.
You can go through one time for10 bucks or you can go through
an unlimited number of times amonth for 12 bucks a month.
(22:39):
It's like a no brainer to jointhe membership.
But here's the crazy part aboutthat the one that's right across
the road from our office.
They have over 4,500 monthlypaying customers.
So every other car wash in thecity is hoping that people come
back and use their service again.
This car wash knows withcertainty that at the start of
(23:00):
the month they're going to getpaid by 4,500 paying customers.
So what does that do for thebusiness owner?
It completely transforms theway you approach business,
because now you've got way moreconfidence in knowing that
you've got money to spend, inknowing that you've got money to
spend on advertising, got moneyto spend on hiring staff, like
wherever you want to invest it.
So that's an example, andthere's many examples of
(23:21):
service-based businessesbarbershops, hair salons, nail
salons.
We have a massage therapist inour community.
She transformed her business toa membership and it's just
completely changed the way inwhich they approach the service.
So that's another example.
Uh, I've got two more.
You want me to go through those?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
yeah, two of those, and then I'm going to come back
to service.
But yeah, I'm writing downmassage therapist.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, okay, I mean, yeah, continue, all right, sorry
because I, I gotta, I gottapivot on that one third one, I'm
gonna move this bottle.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
No, no further away.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
no, no, no'm on a roll, baby.
It's only four o'clock, I'mjust getting cold.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
The third type that this is the world that I play in
the most would be informationor knowledge-based memberships,
and really there are threedifferent sub buckets of those.
The first one would be liketeaching people a skill.
So perhaps for all the otherhandymen in the world there are
(24:18):
many that are not running aprofitable business they could
learn from you directly.
How do I run a profitablehandyman business?
Perfect example of this I wasin Hawaii.
I was running late.
We had a big event that I, mywife and I were going to and my
wife was looking at me and shesaid, babes, you've got to trim
those eyebrows, you got to get ahaircut.
And I was like I don't havetime, Like we were leaving.
(24:41):
And, long story short is wefound this mobile barber, Like
he would come to you.
And so he comes to me.
He's cutting my hair.
I'm talking to him and I wasasking him about his business.
We're entrepreneurs Like we getcurious.
I'm asking him about hisbusiness.
Turns out he's crushing itbecause of the convenience of
(25:02):
being able to come to clientsversus clients having to go to
the barbershop.
I said to him like dude, haveyou ever thought about teaching
other people this Cause?
That's the, that's thesecondary opportunity.
It's like there are many otherbarbers who are stuck in a
barbershop, who are barelygetting by, but this guy has
just changed the model andbecause of it he's booming and
(25:22):
that is something that couldeasily be taught.
So number one, under aninformation-based membership is
teaching people skills.
Number two is solving anongoing problem.
So perfect example of thiswould be like weight loss
Somebody's not gonna go frombeing overweight to their ideal
weight like that.
It takes time to solve.
That problem makes perfect fora membership.
Or like a puppy that's wildlyout of control You're not gonna
(25:45):
go from a puppy that's wildlyout of control to the perfect
puppy.
Like that it takes time tosolve.
That's a great market for amembership.
So number one if you teach askill, great membership.
Number two solve a problem.
Number three, if you createconvenience for people.
So we have a lot of people inour community who are teachers
(26:05):
or former teachers and theirbusiness model and membership is
pretty simple.
They create lesson plans forother teachers and they have
thousands of members, Like Ithink of Julie Soul.
She's a homeschooling mom thatcreates art lessons for other
homeschooling parents, so theseparents don't have to think
about what they're gonna teachthe kids.
They just use Julie's lessons,or I think of Tara Phillips.
(26:26):
She's been an educator for 25years and working in the
classroom with kids with autism.
She's created a whole bunch ofresources over that time that
have helped her be moreeffective in supporting her kids
.
She realized like there areother teachers that could
benefit from this.
She's created a membership.
She crossed the million dollarmilestone this year with a
membership that's focused onhelping other teachers who are
(26:48):
in a classroom with kids withautism.
So what she's done is she'screated convenience, and that's
another sub bucket of thoseinformation-based memberships.
And then the final big bucketwould just be a community-based
membership, where people arepaying to belong to a community
of people like them that theyhave a shared interest with.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
So your wife doesn't like your bushy eyebrows.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
No, that's what you took after all that.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, all that.
I kind of locked on that and Icouldn't hear anything else.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Really I I was so locked on the service-based uh
membership and I'm thinkingmassage therapist, I can teach,
I can teach this anyway, don'tget back.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
So the informational one, though I mean you may have.
So that requires a commitmentto providing new content, fresh
content, to keep thosesubscribers, whereas in the
service space you go back to thecar wash.
Okay, well, you've got the carwash and we're just making sure
that those people come back.
I don't have to really provideanything new.
It's a very different animal.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, for sure, they're different types of
memberships, for sure.
And like with a product base,you're sending product on a
regular basis Service you're.
And like with a product base,you're sending, you know product
on a regular basis service.
You're providing a service on aregular basis information.
Yeah, you're teaching.
But here's the key thing toremember in this.
The number one reason thatpeople cancel any type of
membership is overwhelmed.
(28:07):
There's just too much of it andthey don't have enough time to
consume it.
So product based membership.
If they're not consuming theproducts and they don't have
enough time to consume it, soproduct-based membership.
If they're not consuming theproducts and they're starting to
stack up on their kitchencounter, they're going to cancel
Service-based membership, thesmoke post.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I had to pause it.
You got to the point where youweren't opening them.
Well, I was just like all right, this is getting to be too much
.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
I'm accumulating too much shit in the house and I
was't queue things up in theright way, in a very clean way
in our home, so apparently notin an acceptable way in an
acceptable way.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
So I had to pause it because I couldn't.
I didn't know where else tostore this stuff because, uh,
you know, with the way I rollout of sight, out of mind, I
can't have everything out ofsight.
So yeah, I did.
So you hit it.
Uh, membership overload got it.
That's one.
I mean it's a big mean, it's abig one.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And it is a big one.
So whether they use it, theproducts or the services, if
they're not using them, they'regoing to cancel.
Same goes for aninformation-based membership.
If we provide too much content,it creates overwhelm, and
overwhelm means they're notgoing to watch it, they're not
going to consume it, they're notgoing to use it and they're not
going to make progress, sothey're going to cancel.
So the the magic in that isthat, as membership side owners,
(29:14):
we don't have to provideanywhere near as much as we
think in order to help people beable to experience progress,
cause it's a balance of teachbut also hold the space for them
to implement.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I think that's.
Another great gold nugget toois sometimes when we think about
great customer service causeAlan and I are customer service
freaks, absolutely crazy aboutit and when we think about this,
we think we have to overdeliver and we always say that
we all, you've got to, you gotto, but sometimes it's a little
bit too much.
Man, you know, give some air,give some space, maybe you don't
have to do as much.
And that's what you're saying.
(29:47):
Is this membership?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
well, it's kind of like when you go to a restaurant
and there's really good service, and then there's people are
trying to give you really goodservice, but they interrupt
every conversation.
They're over hovering, they'rejust inserting themselves too
much and they don't read theroom.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, right.
And then, in his case, whatwe're talking about is on the
lessons plans.
You're like, well, I got toreally prove my value.
These guys are only paying 10bucks a month, so you know, but
that's a lot of money to them.
So I get to give this lady 500lesson plans and she's like no,
I just need, I need one a week.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I just know I just need 30.
Please just stop, yeah.
Well, here here's a goodexample of like a membership
that was floundering made asubtle shift and then all of a
sudden took off.
It was a membership that wasfocused on helping photographers
grow their business.
Now, in the membership,initially she was teaching
everything under the sun abouthow to grow a photography
(30:42):
business online.
She was teaching SEO, she wasteaching ads, blogging, like
everything so much that she wasoverwhelming her members.
She was also overwhelmingherself.
So she her name is Jamie Bright.
She paused and decided toreimagine what that experience
could look like, and then sherevamped the membership and
relaunched and listen to thesimplicity of this she taught
(31:05):
one strategy a month on how toattract one new recurring client
per month.
It was like a breath of freshair, like if all that
photographer did was implementone strategy and welcomed one
new client, it paid for itselfmany times over, and so, because
of that, more of her memberswere consuming the content,
(31:29):
getting results, and the wholemembership just took off because
it was also very easy formembers to be able to share with
other people the value thatthey were getting.
It was just like look, jointhis membership, you just get
one strategy a month, but it'sguaranteed to help you get and
welcome more members, and it wassuper easy for word of mouth to
begin spreading.
So again comes back.
We don't need to overwhelm andload people up, we just need to
(31:51):
give them the right informationin the right amount of time.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
So I'd like to ask you, going back to the
service-based membership, you'vegot your gym, who?
They already have their fixedcosts, They've got their
equipment, they've got theirspace and the whole everybody
knows.
You know everybody joins fortheir New Year's resolutions and
then they don't use it.
So you can actually have 10times the membership than you
could actually physically put inyour space.
(32:16):
Then you've got the car wash.
That has a little bit of extraexpense.
So if I've got unlimited washesand I come through I don't know
twice a week instead of theonce a month I normally do, it's
costing the car wash morebecause they're running their
equipment and they've got theirchemicals and things like that,
(32:38):
but it's still not crazy.
Then you've got Chris'sbusiness, where I don't know
what that membership looks like,but suddenly you've got to send
somebody across town.
I mean it seems like it couldget really inefficient.
How do you help him thinkthrough?
Where's that balance betweenhaving a membership that's a
(32:59):
no-brainer to my customers whereI don't get totally taken
advantage of?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah Well, I would just be thinking about, like,
how can I turn a one-time giginto a recurring project?
So here's a good example.
My wife and I we moved ourfamily to a new area and we had
been living in this home forabout three or four months.
My wife and I were lying in bedbed and all of a sudden we hear
and she's like, oh my goodness,I'm like what.
(33:26):
She's like mice, we got mice,we got to sell the place, we got
to get out of here.
And I'm just like whoa.
I'm just like pump the brakeshere, babes.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Like no, we just need to get an exterminator it could
have been a squirrel, it couldhave been a rat, it could have
been an owl, it could have beenanything, not mice, are you
still in this house what's that?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
are you still in this house with the chick that you
wowed and we did eventually movelike your eyebrows?
Speaker 1 (33:51):
there's a good, there's a good story here.
But so I call the exterminator.
He comes, sets up the micetraps and stuff and he's look,
you do live in a wooded areaLike you're going to get mice
and stuff.
He said, and I've laid downtraps and that certainly will
solve things.
You know, for a few months,would you like me to ensure that
(34:11):
the mice never come back?
And I was like yes, of course Iwould.
He's like great, we have thisprogram where I come back and I
reset the traps every month andit's a monthly fee.
And I was like that's a nobrainer, like eliminate that
stress from ever happening again.
And so we signed up for it.
Now here's what's interestingFast forward two years and then
(34:34):
Amy and I are lying in bed againand we hear and I'm like what?
What is going on?
Like this is this was supposedto be solved, right, we've never
had that problem for two yearsup to that point, cause the guy
has been consistent.
And then what I realized wasthat my credit card had expired
and it hadn't been processed.
So the guy hadn't come backthrough.
And I call him up and I'm likedude, like where he been.
(34:56):
He's like yeah, your creditcard's expired.
I'm like, give me a call.
Like just because my creditcard's expired doesn't mean I
don't want the service.
Like dude, you know, get on it.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
So I like this.
So let me tell you exactly whatAmy was doing.
He's on the phone going dude,dude.
She's on the phone with hey,real estate agent, yeah, we'd
like and list our house.
Now you're like no wait, wait,abby.
(35:26):
No wait, wait, wait.
Did that happen in your house?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
well, we did move, uh , we did move, yeah, um, but uh,
let me tell you what happenedto my house before I started my
business.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Uh, that shit was going down just like that.
You heard something in the roofand then she talked to a lady
in the neighborhood andunbeknownst to me cause I was
traveling, I was never at home.
And then I came home andthere's a real estate agent
sitting in my house.
I'm like what, what are wedoing?
He goes yes, I've been told wehave roof rats.
I'm like, uh, who told you wehave roof rats?
I said cause I?
(35:58):
I'm like, who told you we haveroof rats?
I said because the reason I'min the business I'm in, and
that's home repairs, is becauseI love working on homes.
I'm like we don't have roofrats, there's no source for them
here.
And she goes no, no, we'removing.
I'm like where are we moving to?
And the real estate agent saidwell, your wife says you're
looking for a $2 to $5 billionhome.
(36:18):
I said oh, is that what we'relooking for?
Oh, wow, oh, that's interesting, cause I need to work like four
more times than I am right now.
Yeah, so that's what I had toput up with, but at the end of
the day, we got rid of thesquirrels.
That's what they were.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Well and.
But here's the lesson in allthat.
It's just like thinking abouthow can you take a service that
would have been normally aone-time visit and turn it into
a recurring visit For me?
I am not a handyman, I am likemy dad is extremely handy, used
to play jokes on me all the time.
When I'd be quote trying tohelp him out, he'd be like hey,
(36:48):
son, can you pass me theleft-handed hammer?
And I'd be looking for theleft-handed hammer for days on
end, like I am the leasthandyman you could think of.
But what would be of service tome is like a handyman service
where every month I get acertain number of hours quick
check-in, come help me take outmy air filters, replace those,
(37:08):
change the light bulbs, hang thepictures, like.
It doesn't have to becomplicated, but it's about
creating convenience for peopleand they're more than willing to
pay for it on a regular basis.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Dude, you killed it for us and I hate that we're
running out of time, but we'velearned so much.
Obviously, surround yourselfwith great people, but
recruiting that membership, yougave us the areas you can do it
in for a number of our listeners.
You can pick that bucket andfigure out what's going on, make
it a no brainer.
The thing I took away that andthis is why I wanted you on,
because I'm still wrestling withthat one myself, like I said
(37:39):
that wrestling is that how do Imake this a no brainer?
Because we have a minimum feefor us to come out.
It's $230, $180 plus theservice visit.
But what I was just kickingaround with my team is that what
if we said but if you want tobecome part of our preferred
member program and our home homemembership, what I'll do is
(38:00):
I'll waive the, I'll waive the$80 and we'll just make it $50
or 150.
And then it's $15 a month.
And so that's just something wekicked around, because when I
first introduced this home hubmembership program, uh, now,
going on three years ago, I havebasically 10 people, but I have
over 17,000 people in mydatabase and I have um up to
(38:23):
3000 people who deal with everyevery year, so I know it's not
working.
And, um, and somebody said,well, why don't you do this?
And I'm like, well, that's alost leader for me.
But I think you're proving tome and proving to a lot of us,
that if we think about itdifferently, maybe even in the
commercial real estate business,there's a way to do this.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Well, that's like you need to call Stu.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I would be thinking about it differently.
I'd be thinking about it fromthe standpoint of, like, how do
I take a customer that wouldnormally spend, say, 300, maybe
$500 a year with me and turnthat into a customer that is
spending $1,200 a year?
Like I know for a fact, therewould be people who would be
more than willing to pay ahundred bucks a month for a
(39:03):
service that provides maybe anhour of, you know, check-ins
every month, and it may not evenbe every month, it might be
every quarter if that'snecessary.
But it's the comfort of peopleknowing that they don't have to
worry about their house fallingapart because they're not
maintaining water filters, airfilters, like all those kinds of
(39:24):
things Like, uh.
Here's a perfect example.
We have a uh, a skylight in ourbathroom and we can see that
there's something not rightthere.
Right, like the you know,there's water starting to do
something on that skylight.
We need somebody to look atthat.
But it's been a pain in thebutt for us to find somebody and
(39:45):
nail it down.
If I had the comfort of knowingevery month somebody's going to
come by and be like can you justtell me what I got to do here?
What should I be looking at andthinking about.
That's comfort of mind, that'speace of mind and people are
willing to pay for that.
And now you're taking acustomer that would normally
spend a few hundred dollars ayear with you, turn them into a
customer that's spendingthousands of dollars a year with
(40:05):
you and there's a very goodchance that in that handyman
being in that home, it's goingto lead to other projects.
So imagine, if you rethink howthat membership is operating,
it's more about a getting paidto scout out future projects.
Now that reframes the wholeconcept of that membership.
(40:27):
You're getting paid to be insomebody's home to identify
future projects.
That is amazing and that's awhole different business model
that could set that in a wholedifferent trajectory.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Oh my God, I got one more question.
We may just have to forego thefour questions, because I'm
going to have to forego the fourquestions because I'm over here
processing.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Well, we already know what his favorite book is yeah,
and that's a great book.
Actually I've written that downand that book was Jumpstart
your Brain by Doug Hall.
Love that, okay, and he'salready proven that he doesn't
like to work on houses and hisDIY nightmare story was mice.
But thank God your wife didn'ttake it to the absolutely
apocalyptic level that my wifedid, because that was a lot of
(41:09):
fun to walk in off the week away, flying in from the airport
with a real estate agency to myhome.
I'm like dude, what.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
So, stu, when you're working with a client, you're
coming up with a strategy.
You're coming up, maybe, withpricing Are you helping with
that?
And then you help themimplement how you market it, how
you train people, how youproject it on the internet.
I mean, is it a full serviceservice that you're providing?
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah, we have two ways in which well, three ways
in which we help people.
The first way is, like I have acourse which I teach people how
to launch and grow a membership, and that's been our flagship
program.
We've taught now nearly 19,000people how to launch, grow and
scale memberships and, as Imentioned, in all kinds of
markets that you could think of,and that's been our primary way
(41:59):
to serve people.
The second way is that we haveour own membership software
platform.
It's called membershipio, sothat is the platform I'm
incredibly biased that I thinkis the world's number one
platform for memberships, youknow.
And so that's the second way.
The third way is that, yeah, wehave a done for you service
(42:19):
where we work with clients andwe help them, you know, set up
their membership and launchtheir membership and certainly
grow it.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Fantastic, I was writing that stuff down, man.
This has been dynamite, allright, so membershipio.
How else can they find you, stu?
Let's get your digits out there.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Let's get all that out.
We'll put it on the show noteseverybody.
Yeah, best thing.
I have detailed everythingabout launching and growing a
profitable membership in mybrand new book called
Predictable Profits.
So if you go to Amazon, searchPredictable Profits and or Stu
McLaren, you'll find it.
But the easiest way to find outall the things is just go to my
website.
Stu S-T-U dot me like theshortest, easiest URL.
Stu dot me.
And if you want to see the bookand the extra bonuses, go to
(43:05):
Stu dot me.
Forward slash book.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
How is that available ?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Stu dot me yeah, how'd you pick that one up?
I mean that, come on seriously,there's actually a funny story
there.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
So I was coming home from with my wife, we had just
visited our accountant who wasbreaking down the numbers for
the year, and I knew that thatdomain was coming up for auction
.
And so I was legit.
My wife was driving, I'm in thepassenger seat and I'm bidding
on this domain name.
And my wife's like what are youdoing?
I said I'm trying to get thisdomain name.
She's like you havestewmclarencom.
(43:34):
I'm like yeah, but babes,everybody always butchers my
last name.
Like I just if I got stewed onme, it's way easier.
So I, I, uh, I finally I likegot it.
And she's like what did you payfor it?
And I said, uh, $18,000.
She said sorry, what was that?
And?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
I said uh, $18,000.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
She said you paid $18,000.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
I said no, I didn't, I only paid $600.
She's like oh okay, oh my god,that dude's a freaking master.
Jedi Mind Tricks by Stume.
Everybody remember Stume.
This thing has been amazing.
We have got to go.
Everybody You've been driving.
If you took on this long,you've got to.
You learned something, becauseI have learned a lot.
Number one mice make roof, ratsmake thump, thump, thump sounds
(44:24):
, by the way, so they'refreaking loud.
Stu, that was awesome.
Thank you, man.
Stu is the master ofmemberships.
Go check him out.
We're going to get this thingout there, but in the meantime,
we've got to go out there andmake some money.
Let's get out of here.
dollar shave club.
So they took something that was, like you know, awkward going
into the store and typicallyrazors are behind like a lock
and key, you gotta ask somebodyto come and unlock it to be able
to, you know, buy the box ofrazors.
Like it was a pain in the butt.
And so they took that and madethat experience like convenient,
where just you pay a monthlyfee and then you get razor sent
(00:21):
to you every month.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Like super easy and it took off I'm sorry, but yeah,
you can go in there and buy allthe shit to make meth, but you
can't get a razor blade becauseit's behind the thing.
So we could be meth of the monthclub welcome to the small
business safari, where I helpguide you to avoid those traps,
pitfalls and dangers that lurkwhen navigating the wild world
of small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
(00:43):
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in adventure team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
All right, alan, I know youdidn't hear the ding that says
(01:12):
let's get started.
But believe or not?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
it's already done.
I don't trust you, I know, butI I've been testing it.
We've been doing this for threeand a half years.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I don't trust you all right, so I've gone to new
technology.
What the hell did you just saynew technology?
This guy can, can't handle it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
God, I fell down almost, but no, I've done it.
I've gone to recording our podson the cloud.
Dude, I'm with it, I'm hip, I'mthere, I'm just like all about
it.
All of a sudden, I've had somany people on the podcast, you
know, saying, hey, I can techyou.
Man, I still have to reach outto you and then email you.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
That makes me sound old, right I?
Don't know what the hell, itsucks, it's comforting.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
But no, we're recording.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
We are recording and I've got AI taking notes.
That's right.
Who is AI?
It is not Arthur Treacher'sintelligence, it is AI,
artificial intelligence.
I'm all about it now.
Yeah, I know, you are big, I am, I am.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Chat, gpt Anything you can do to make Chris's life
easier.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh my gosh, I can't tell you how quick some of these
things have happened.
It's helped me build socialmedia strategies for my business
.
It's helped me.
You know, I uploaded.
I took a lot of Stephanie Ican't even say her name, but
Stephanie's Advice Uploaded allthat stuff up to chat and now
I've been asking questions andit knows who.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I am.
Are you kind of like on thecommercials where you're laying
in bed and you're like and ifyou named it like, you know,
suzy, suzy, I don't feel verygood today.
Can I talk to you?
And the AI talks back, are you?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
replacing your therapist with AI.
That's a long pause, everybody,if you're in your truck, you
got me so remember we hadanother guy in the pod who said
he was talking back and forth tohis AI in the car.
Guess who's doing that, are youreally?
It is cool too.
I'm like well, tell me a littlemore about that.
Well, chris, since you asked,let me tell you a little bit
more.
Oh my God, this has been cool.
(03:04):
So I'm not all the way thereyet.
I'm no AI expert, but if youwant to pay me money to teach
you AI, I'd be happy to do it.
That's a glowing endorsement.
I think that's at least worth aquarter.
All right, can we get to ourguest please?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I think we should, I mean he's international?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Wait, not yet we.
We had a big event and we'renot supposed to date them, do
all this other stuff, but we hada big event here in atlanta.
We had snow an inch and a halfand I did what everybody else
did, even though I came from aplace that had more snow in two
minutes than we get the entiretwo years here in atlanta.
But I had to do my obligatorysnow picture and I posted it out
(03:42):
on facebook.
Go check it out.
Um, if you don't follow me, I'mon Facebook and Insta.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You can go check that out and for those who are
looking, this was full beforethe snow.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I was snowed in for at least a day and so, yeah,
that big bullet's gone, baby,the bourbon is gone.
Chris had to do something, so Iwas drinking bourbon and doing
all that.
Stayed warm, stayed warm.
I did stay warm.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
So that was fun.
Did you uh cook while you werein?
Is that that's what everybodydoes.
I went outside and cooked inthe snow.
I got the big green egg goingand I got a dutch oven out there
and uh did a smoked chicken andwild rice soup while the snow
was coming down baking bread onthe egg.
It was great oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I know you sent me a picture of your pizza that you
do in the uni, which uh has.
That episode has gone out andI'm already getting some
responses from Ooni.
Okay, I lied.
Maybe you should hashtag him.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I gotta, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta do a little more
promotion on that.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So let's get to our guest.
Shall we Wait?
I got one more thing.
No, I'm kidding.
All right, stu, this is my life, stu, stu, we are back, and Stu
McLaren's on.
He is going to teach us allabout how to build memberships
and how to build customerstickiness, how to get people to
stay in your biz and grow yourbiz, and tell us how memberships
are the be-all, end-all andwhere everybody's going.
I think At least that's whatI'm hoping, because that's why I
(04:57):
brought him on.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Well, so, stu, first of all, if we got to start off
with, where are you from?
Well, fellas, it is definitelycold and it is definitely a lot
more snow where I'm at, and it'sjust south of Toronto, ontario,
canada.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
We love Canadians.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
We have had a lot of Canadians.
We never had one that we didn'tlike.
You know what we have not?
And Stu, don't break that, Okaybuddy Pressure is on.
Okay, as we say right before wego on the radio hey, don't suck
.
Okay.
So you grew up.
You went to university up inCanada.
What were you doing first?
(05:37):
What was the reason you went toschool and what'd you get out
to go do?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Well, I went through for business.
That's what I got my degree in.
Now I'd love to say it was likea straight, easy path, but it
wasn't.
I failed out.
My first year of university gotthe pink slip that said you may
no longer proceed in the honorsbusiness program.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Wow, failing out of the honors business, that's
solid, and they didn't even giveyou like that.
Hey, you can go to remedialbusiness.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
No no, it was basically an all or nothing.
You're either.
You're either an honors oryou're nothing.
And I was nothing at that point.
And, uh, I was playing soccerat university, so that's really
what had my attention.
And um, but anyway, I talked myway back in, and so I went to a
professor and I said hey,listen, what can I do over the
summer?
I want to stay in this program.
(06:23):
She gave me a few extraassignments, and the reason that
I got the pink slip is you hadto maintain a certain average,
and so the extra assignments Idid bumped up my average enough
that I skated in by the skin ofmy teeth into second year.
And then something switchedthough.
Third year I went from bottomof my class to top of the class,
(06:44):
and the reason was I read abook called Jumpstart your Brain
, and it was by a gentleman bythe name of Doug Hall, and it
was all about how to think morecreatively.
And so I just started applyingwhat I was learning from the
book to my schoolwork.
So I'd ask questions like howcan I make this 40 page essay
fun for my professor to read?
(07:05):
Because I was thinking like howcan I make this 40 page essay
fun for my professor to read,because I was thinking like this
must suck for them.
They've got hundreds ofstudents writing 40 page essays.
That would be awful, and so Iwould come up with all kinds of
creative things for myschoolwork, my presentations,
and the short version is itlanded me top of my class.
It landed me the jobs that Iwanted.
It landed me the girl of mydreams, who's now my wife, and
(07:28):
so when I graduated university,I did not want to go into or
down the traditional path.
I didn't want to go into thecorporate world, even though
that's what I was going throughschool for.
Like.
I didn't, couldn't see myselfin a cubicle, couldn't see
myself wearing a shirt and tie,couldn't see myself being told
when I could or could not go onvacation, and so I resigned from
(07:48):
a very well-paying job, andmuch to my parents' dismay, and
I decided to start my ownbusiness, and the very first
thing that I did was I startedspeaking to other high school
and college students about howto use their creativity to get
more of the things that theywanted in life.
That eventually led me torealizing that business owners
(08:14):
could benefit from the sameinformation, and my very first
business that really had anyteeth around.
It was a service-based businesslike an agency, and that was
where everything began for me.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I got to back up.
So how did you come across thatbook?
I'm just having a hard timeimagining somebody at college
saying I'm going to read aself-help book.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Jumpstart your Brain.
That's what I was writing down.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah Well, it was actually a video in a marketing
class of Doug Hall, and thereason it lit me up was because
here was a guy in a Hawaiianshirt and shorts, no shoes or
socks.
He was shooting Nerf guns atcorporate CEOs and he had built
this business where fortune 500companies were paying him a
(09:02):
hundred thousand dollars forthree days of brainstorming.
So I saw that and I'm like thisis amazing, like I want to do
that, and so then I looked himup, found his book, and that's
how it all began all right.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
So I know, I know it's a business podcast, but I'm
sure most of the guys that areout there listening are going
okay, help me get the girl of mydreams.
So did you shoot her with anerf gun too?
Is that honestly?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
yeah, everybody.
As soon as you said girl, mydream, she know every one of
them just went uh-huh, uh-huh,uh-huh business blah blah blah.
This is boring.
Tell us about the chick yeah,no, it was.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Uh, it was not nerf guns, but essentially, um, okay,
here was the game plan, fellas,I think.
So I in my mind uh said tomyself okay, I want to create
the most epic first date so that, even if she doesn't want to
continue dating with me, justher telling her friends about
(09:55):
this date, there's a highprobability that one of them
would want to date me.
So, uh, that's what I ended upcreating this epic first date.
It included, like a bunch ofclues that were placed all
around the city with flowerpetals.
There was me with a fullbouquet of flowers dinner the
whole nine yards.
But it was a memorable nightand it definitely secured the
(10:16):
deal.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Solid bro.
All right, everybody, goldnuggets.
You want to squirt the chickyour dreams, maybe for just a
night?
Drop some petals.
Petals, have a bouquet, and ifthat one doesn't work, she's got
to tell everybody else how epicit was all right so how long
you been married now?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
uh.
So we dated for seven yearsbefore I could convince her that
I was the man of her dreams.
And then, uh, we've now beenmarried for 17 years.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Whoa See, when you start that big, though, my
question is how do you keep itup?
I?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
mean you haven't missed a birthday, a holiday,
valentine's day.
Everyone's got to be better youcan't mail one in.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
That's pressure.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
The proposal was probably my favorite because I,
in a mind games kind of way,tricked my wife into organizing
a surprise birthday party for meso that we could get all of our
family and friends together.
And then I proposed to her infront of everybody and nobody
knew.
And that was an epic turn ofevents too, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Dude, now that's a business plan right there Dead.
Eye.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Mind.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Cribs by Stu Right right.
How to get your wife toorganize her own surprise
engagement party.
What, but I don't even know.
How did you know she was goingto say yes, ooh.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
All right, he just built total credibility on
whatever he sold.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
But he was at it for seven years.
I mean, you know, oh, come onWell, and there was social
pressure there, all family andfriends were there so I figured
there was lots of things to myadvantage.
Solid move, all right.
So you got kids too.
I suppose because I see thegreatest dad ever in the back.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I do yeah which.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Alan begs to differ because I think, alan, what are
you up to now like 15, 18 kids?
How many you got?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
now who's counting Three?
I mean it's amazing how manygreatest dad ever posters do you
have in your background, chris?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
um, don't suck yeah do, better do better do we bring
up my?
Daughter, yet no uh yeah, ohyeah, so yeah, this is good.
So how many kids you got?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
uh, two kids, so, uh, my uh eldest is my daughter,
marla, so she's turning 14 thisyear, and then my youngest, our
youngest, is Sam, and we adoptedSam from South Africa when he
was one, and so he turns 11 thisyear.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Oh, beautiful, well done man.
I tell you what I've said, thatto a couple of friends who were
adopted.
And I said you know yourparents truly do love you.
I said I was just awhoops-a-daisy.
What happened?
And I didn't have to work hardLiterally every month.
We said, okay, let's starttrying to have a kid Bam.
I was like, can we get a littlepractice in here?
I mean, we're done.
(12:52):
Oh my God, that was it.
So that's great man, excellentWay to go, good stuff.
So obviously you're teachingthem all about how to be a great
businessman and a great fatherand husband.
So let's talk a little bit moreabout your journey.
So you've written a couple ofbooks.
How many books?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So I've self-published one, and then my
latest is my very firstpublished traditionally
published book calledPredictable.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Profits, so I call that two yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Right, good counting, chris.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Thank you Alan.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
That's a nice fat book too, compared to yours.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So how many books do you have, Alan?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
You know it's not worth writing one if I can't
write a big fat book like Studid.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Can we let the adults talk for a minute?
Thank you, stu.
So I've written my own book aswell, with big words and
pictures, and I did a lot ofcoloring in there and there's
there's even a couple of graphs.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Hey, buddy, listen, I love pictures too.
That's like in in this book.
I got plenty, of plenty ofpictures for everybody at
different, different spots.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
We're on the same page.
Yeah Wow, that's a little bitdifferent than me.
Mine usually just had onefinger.
What I thought about you, whatI think about customers,
corporate world, what I thoughtabout the corporate world, so
predictable profits.
So, in that labor of love, thatthat book that you published,
tell us a little bit about howit came about and why you
decided to publish that one.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Well, I had my very first business that really kind
of took off, like I mentioned,was a service based business,
and it was growing and it wasdoing well mid six figures.
Everything was great, exceptfor the fact that I was working
night and day and I was at thebeck and call of my clients and
that's fine when you're single.
But then I got married with Amyand we were talking about
(14:37):
having kids and I quicklyrealized the writing was on the
wall Like if something didn'tchange about the business, I was
not going to be the presenthusband and father that I wanted
to be.
So what I realized was that thebusiness model itself was
broken, and so I was talking toa friend of mine about, like
what I could do to change, andhe said, stu, why don't you just
(14:58):
teach other people what you'redoing for your clients and do it
inside of a membership site andinstead of like serving clients
one-on-one, you could now teachone time and serve hundreds, if
not thousands, of people whowould pay you every single month
to access that information.
Now I thought in the moment Iwas just like man, that sounds
(15:19):
amazing.
And then, once I dug into it,like the back then this was
2008,.
The technology was not what itis today, back then, and so I
was in dealing with things likeHT, access files and server
settings, like stuff that's wayabove my pay grade and and I was
(15:39):
frustrated by it.
And so I was talking to anotherfriend of mine expressing that
frustration and he said, well,why don't you just create your
own membership solution?
And fellas, I got to be honestlike I was kind of a little bit
annoyed because he's telling methis and I'm like, is he not
listening to anything?
I'm sitting here saying likeI'm having trouble with the tech
and he's telling me to go anddevelop a solution.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Be more tech.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, exactly.
And I said, dude, like, are younot listening?
I'm like I'm not a developer,and so that sounds like me the
next morning after I go.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Man, I need better friends, but it's usually
because I'm hungover.
But so at that point you'relike dude, I need better friends
.
Then you slept on it and youwent.
Huh, you might be right.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah.
Well then he said to me he'slike well, look, I've got a
developer, why don't we worktogether?
So we did, and we created ourvery first software solution.
It was called Wishlist Member,and it went on to become the
world's number one membershipplatform for WordPress.
When I sold my shares in thatcompany a few years later, we
(16:43):
were powering over 70,000 onlinecommunities and memberships
were powering over 70,000 onlinecommunities and memberships,
and so being behind the scenesof that is where I learned what
worked and what didn't when itcame to growing a profitable
membership site.
And so, since that point, Ihave been teaching business
owners in every kind of marketyou could think of, from
photography and calligraphy tofitness, finance, music, art,
(17:04):
health, dog training.
We even have a woman, hollyGeorge, who's got a membership
site teaching people how to makeballoon animals for crying out
loud with thousands of members.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
But my point is is that this has been my world
Ellen, why don't you giveyourselves the death stare of
balloon animals?
Why didn't I think of that Damnballoon?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
animals.
Some of the markets would beshocking in terms of how people
have built these incrediblebusinesses, but that's been my
world for the better part ofnearly two decades.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
All right.
So let's go back two decades.
You brought up something andwe've talked about this before,
alan and that is you're sittingthere and you're creatively
frustrated in the first hand andthe guy says, well, why don't
you just create a membershipsite?
And you're sitting there andyou're creatively frustrated in
the firsthand and the guy says,well, why don't you just create
a membership site?
And you're like, well, uh, atthe time you probably go through
the three phases of truth,right?
First you deny it uh, or I'msorry, you ignore then you deny
(17:55):
and then you vehemently acceptit.
Um, and that's how I got.
My business is like I'm sittingthere, I had this great idea.
I was going to buy a company, Iwas going to do this, and I was
sitting on the back of thisguy's uh deck here in my
neighborhood and he just said,well, why don't you come up with
winning a hundred?
Call Chris, because that'severybody does that anyway in
our neighborhood says, okay,chris will tell you about the
(18:15):
house.
I mean, let's, why don't you dothat?
I'm like, now, that's stupid.
Next morning I'm like, yeah, oh, that's not.
Oh, wow, that's got some legs.
So you surrounded yourselfaround good people.
That's my question Did youpurposely pick these people out
and just keep talking to themabout?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
these things.
Careful, Stu, because I thinkChris is going to replace me.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Alan, you're irreplaceable.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
There is something to be said for that, though.
Like legit, you know,intentionally, you know, picking
people that can speak into yourlife at that time.
Yes, I was, and I still amtoday in, you know, different
groups and masterminds of otherbusiness owners.
I do think that that's reallyimportant, because sometimes
you're too close to it.
(19:05):
You know you're too close to itand you need perspective, and
that's certainly been somethingthat's really helped me in my
entrepreneurial journey as well.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
So I've got a dumb question, but I'm good at that.
So what you built thismembership, Chris reminds me
often.
I'm not a smart man, but I knowwhat love is.
Yes, you do.
You're way better at that thanme.
Yeah, it sounds like what youbuilt was almost like a
masterclass sort of a scenario.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And because when I think of memberships, I'm
thinking of, like you mentioned,the gym membership and and the
carwash.
You know the monthly, you knowmembership, but you're you were
talking about a balloon animalperson who's teaching other
people how to do balloon animals.
Yeah, so were you kind ofcatering to people who are just
getting memberships, of peoplewho wanted to learn about what
(19:55):
they had to offer, or are wetalking about recurring business
, like in, say, chris's handymanservice?
Now, I'm in commercial realestate.
I don't see how you can do that, but we don't need to talk
about that.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, you know, I mean not for nothing.
Maybe we do, maybe it is abreaker, I don't know.
We can see how creative Stu isAll right, let's go, we can talk
.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I got examples for you.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
As we said at the beginning Stu don't suck.
Yeah, well, okay.
Or just suck, don't suck much.
Yeah, don't suck as much as wedo.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
There are really like four types of memberships.
Okay, so this is for everybodywho's got like a product-based
business.
So, instead of like hoping thatcustomers come back and buy the
product again, set it up as arecurring membership.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
So I'll give you some examples.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, like a, like a razor to the month, tie of the
month, tea of the month, coffeeof the month, uh, subscription
boxes, these are all examples.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I will tell you, when I got sucked into, it was
called Bespoke Post and it was aman box because my daughter,
who at the time only had astarter job before she went back
to PA school, decided she hadto spend every dollar she could
because she was spending with usto save money or staying with
us to save money.
So she was getting a box everymonth.
So I got the Bespoke Post boxand I'm telling you, man, it was
(21:13):
awesome.
So back to your point.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I think they need to rename it.
I have no idea what that is.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I don't either and I can barely say it, but I loved
what.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
I got it's great.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, so all right.
So, but see, I see what you're,so let's keep going.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
There's a lot of great ideas on this.
Yeah, example um would be the umuh dollar shave club.
So they took something that was, like you know, awkward.
Going into the store andtypically razors are behind like
a lock and key, you got to asksomebody to come and unlock it
to be able to, you know, buy thebox of razors.
(21:46):
Like it was a pain in the butt.
And so they took that and madethat experience like convenient,
where just you pay a monthlyfee and then you get razor sent
to you every month.
Like super easy and it took off.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I'm sorry, but yeah, you can go in there and buy all
this shit to make meth, but youcan't get a razor blade because
it's behind the thing.
So we can be meth of the monthclub.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You could probably get a lot of subscribers, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I deal with handymen and we've yeah, yeah, that's
anyway.
It's a recurring joke in ourworld about how bad it is.
Anyway, sorry Del, it's a shameno worries.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So okay, so that's an example of a product-based
membership.
Second type would definitely bein your world and that's a
service-based membership.
So you mentioned the car wash.
Like we have a car wash rightacross the road from us.
The way they price it isbrilliant.
Like we have a car wash rightacross the road from us.
The way they price it isbrilliant.
You can go through one time for10 bucks or you can go through
an unlimited number of times amonth for 12 bucks a month.
(22:39):
It's like a no brainer to jointhe membership.
But here's the crazy part aboutthat the one that's right across
the road from our office.
They have over 4,500 monthlypaying customers.
So every other car wash in thecity is hoping that people come
back and use their service again.
This car wash knows withcertainty that at the start of
(23:00):
the month they're going to getpaid by 4,500 paying customers.
So what does that do for thebusiness owner?
It completely transforms theway you approach business,
because now you've got way moreconfidence in knowing that
you've got money to spend, inknowing that you've got money to
spend on advertising, got moneyto spend on hiring staff, like
wherever you want to invest it.
So that's an example, andthere's many examples of
(23:21):
service-based businessesbarbershops, hair salons, nail
salons.
We have a massage therapist inour community.
She transformed her business toa membership and it's just
completely changed the way inwhich they approach the service.
So that's another example.
Uh, I've got two more.
You want me to go through those?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
yeah, two of those, and then I'm going to come back
to service.
But yeah, I'm writing downmassage therapist.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, okay, I mean, yeah, continue, all right, sorry
because I, I gotta, I gottapivot on that one third one, I'm
gonna move this bottle.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
No, no further away.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
no, no, no'm on a roll, baby.
It's only four o'clock, I'mjust getting cold.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
The third type that this is the world that I play in
the most would be informationor knowledge-based memberships,
and really there are threedifferent sub buckets of those.
The first one would be liketeaching people a skill.
So perhaps for all the otherhandymen in the world there are
(24:18):
many that are not running aprofitable business they could
learn from you directly.
How do I run a profitablehandyman business?
Perfect example of this I wasin Hawaii.
I was running late.
We had a big event that I, mywife and I were going to and my
wife was looking at me and shesaid, babes, you've got to trim
those eyebrows, you got to get ahaircut.
And I was like I don't havetime, Like we were leaving.
(24:41):
And, long story short is wefound this mobile barber, Like
he would come to you.
And so he comes to me.
He's cutting my hair.
I'm talking to him and I wasasking him about his business.
We're entrepreneurs Like we getcurious.
I'm asking him about hisbusiness.
Turns out he's crushing itbecause of the convenience of
(25:02):
being able to come to clientsversus clients having to go to
the barbershop.
I said to him like dude, haveyou ever thought about teaching
other people this Cause?
That's the, that's thesecondary opportunity.
It's like there are many otherbarbers who are stuck in a
barbershop, who are barelygetting by, but this guy has
just changed the model andbecause of it he's booming and
(25:22):
that is something that couldeasily be taught.
So number one, under aninformation-based membership is
teaching people skills.
Number two is solving anongoing problem.
So perfect example of thiswould be like weight loss
Somebody's not gonna go frombeing overweight to their ideal
weight like that.
It takes time to solve.
That problem makes perfect fora membership.
Or like a puppy that's wildlyout of control You're not gonna
(25:45):
go from a puppy that's wildlyout of control to the perfect
puppy.
Like that it takes time tosolve.
That's a great market for amembership.
So number one if you teach askill, great membership.
Number two solve a problem.
Number three, if you createconvenience for people.
So we have a lot of people inour community who are teachers
(26:05):
or former teachers and theirbusiness model and membership is
pretty simple.
They create lesson plans forother teachers and they have
thousands of members, Like Ithink of Julie Soul.
She's a homeschooling mom thatcreates art lessons for other
homeschooling parents, so theseparents don't have to think
about what they're gonna teachthe kids.
They just use Julie's lessons,or I think of Tara Phillips.
(26:26):
She's been an educator for 25years and working in the
classroom with kids with autism.
She's created a whole bunch ofresources over that time that
have helped her be moreeffective in supporting her kids
.
She realized like there areother teachers that could
benefit from this.
She's created a membership.
She crossed the million dollarmilestone this year with a
membership that's focused onhelping other teachers who are
(26:48):
in a classroom with kids withautism.
So what she's done is she'screated convenience, and that's
another sub bucket of thoseinformation-based memberships.
And then the final big bucketwould just be a community-based
membership, where people arepaying to belong to a community
of people like them that theyhave a shared interest with.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
So your wife doesn't like your bushy eyebrows.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
No, that's what you took after all that.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, all that.
I kind of locked on that and Icouldn't hear anything else.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Really I I was so locked on the service-based uh
membership and I'm thinkingmassage therapist, I can teach,
I can teach this anyway, don'tget back.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
So the informational one, though I mean you may have.
So that requires a commitmentto providing new content, fresh
content, to keep thosesubscribers, whereas in the
service space you go back to thecar wash.
Okay, well, you've got the carwash and we're just making sure
that those people come back.
I don't have to really provideanything new.
It's a very different animal.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, for sure, they're different types of
memberships, for sure.
And like with a product base,you're sending product on a
regular basis Service you're.
And like with a product base,you're sending, you know product
on a regular basis service.
You're providing a service on aregular basis information.
Yeah, you're teaching.
But here's the key thing toremember in this.
The number one reason thatpeople cancel any type of
membership is overwhelmed.
(28:07):
There's just too much of it andthey don't have enough time to
consume it.
So product based membership.
If they're not consuming theproducts and they don't have
enough time to consume it, soproduct-based membership.
If they're not consuming theproducts and they're starting to
stack up on their kitchencounter, they're going to cancel
Service-based membership, thesmoke post.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I had to pause it.
You got to the point where youweren't opening them.
Well, I was just like all right, this is getting to be too much
.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
I'm accumulating too much shit in the house and I
was't queue things up in theright way, in a very clean way
in our home, so apparently notin an acceptable way in an
acceptable way.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
So I had to pause it because I couldn't.
I didn't know where else tostore this stuff because, uh,
you know, with the way I rollout of sight, out of mind, I
can't have everything out ofsight.
So yeah, I did.
So you hit it.
Uh, membership overload got it.
That's one.
I mean it's a big mean, it's abig one.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And it is a big one.
So whether they use it, theproducts or the services, if
they're not using them, they'regoing to cancel.
Same goes for aninformation-based membership.
If we provide too much content,it creates overwhelm, and
overwhelm means they're notgoing to watch it, they're not
going to consume it, they're notgoing to use it and they're not
going to make progress, sothey're going to cancel.
So the the magic in that isthat, as membership side owners,
(29:14):
we don't have to provideanywhere near as much as we
think in order to help people beable to experience progress,
cause it's a balance of teachbut also hold the space for them
to implement.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I think that's.
Another great gold nugget toois sometimes when we think about
great customer service causeAlan and I are customer service
freaks, absolutely crazy aboutit and when we think about this,
we think we have to overdeliver and we always say that
we all, you've got to, you gotto, but sometimes it's a little
bit too much.
Man, you know, give some air,give some space, maybe you don't
have to do as much.
And that's what you're saying.
(29:47):
Is this membership?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
well, it's kind of like when you go to a restaurant
and there's really good service, and then there's people are
trying to give you really goodservice, but they interrupt
every conversation.
They're over hovering, they'rejust inserting themselves too
much and they don't read theroom.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, right.
And then, in his case, whatwe're talking about is on the
lessons plans.
You're like, well, I got toreally prove my value.
These guys are only paying 10bucks a month, so you know, but
that's a lot of money to them.
So I get to give this lady 500lesson plans and she's like no,
I just need, I need one a week.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I just know I just need 30.
Please just stop, yeah.
Well, here here's a goodexample of like a membership
that was floundering made asubtle shift and then all of a
sudden took off.
It was a membership that wasfocused on helping photographers
grow their business.
Now, in the membership,initially she was teaching
everything under the sun abouthow to grow a photography
(30:42):
business online.
She was teaching SEO, she wasteaching ads, blogging, like
everything so much that she wasoverwhelming her members.
She was also overwhelmingherself.
So she her name is Jamie Bright.
She paused and decided toreimagine what that experience
could look like, and then sherevamped the membership and
relaunched and listen to thesimplicity of this she taught
(31:05):
one strategy a month on how toattract one new recurring client
per month.
It was like a breath of freshair, like if all that
photographer did was implementone strategy and welcomed one
new client, it paid for itselfmany times over, and so, because
of that, more of her memberswere consuming the content,
(31:29):
getting results, and the wholemembership just took off because
it was also very easy formembers to be able to share with
other people the value thatthey were getting.
It was just like look, jointhis membership, you just get
one strategy a month, but it'sguaranteed to help you get and
welcome more members, and it wassuper easy for word of mouth to
begin spreading.
So again comes back.
We don't need to overwhelm andload people up, we just need to
(31:51):
give them the right informationin the right amount of time.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
So I'd like to ask you, going back to the
service-based membership, you'vegot your gym, who?
They already have their fixedcosts, They've got their
equipment, they've got theirspace and the whole everybody
knows.
You know everybody joins fortheir New Year's resolutions and
then they don't use it.
So you can actually have 10times the membership than you
could actually physically put inyour space.
(32:16):
Then you've got the car wash.
That has a little bit of extraexpense.
So if I've got unlimited washesand I come through I don't know
twice a week instead of theonce a month I normally do, it's
costing the car wash morebecause they're running their
equipment and they've got theirchemicals and things like that,
(32:38):
but it's still not crazy.
Then you've got Chris'sbusiness, where I don't know
what that membership looks like,but suddenly you've got to send
somebody across town.
I mean it seems like it couldget really inefficient.
How do you help him thinkthrough?
Where's that balance betweenhaving a membership that's a
(32:59):
no-brainer to my customers whereI don't get totally taken
advantage of?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah Well, I would just be thinking about, like,
how can I turn a one-time giginto a recurring project?
So here's a good example.
My wife and I we moved ourfamily to a new area and we had
been living in this home forabout three or four months.
My wife and I were lying in bedbed and all of a sudden we hear
and she's like, oh my goodness,I'm like what.
(33:26):
She's like mice, we got mice,we got to sell the place, we got
to get out of here.
And I'm just like whoa.
I'm just like pump the brakeshere, babes.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Like no, we just need to get an exterminator it could
have been a squirrel, it couldhave been a rat, it could have
been an owl, it could have beenanything, not mice, are you
still in this house what's that?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
are you still in this house with the chick that you
wowed and we did eventually movelike your eyebrows?
Speaker 1 (33:51):
there's a good, there's a good story here.
But so I call the exterminator.
He comes, sets up the micetraps and stuff and he's look,
you do live in a wooded areaLike you're going to get mice
and stuff.
He said, and I've laid downtraps and that certainly will
solve things.
You know, for a few months,would you like me to ensure that
(34:11):
the mice never come back?
And I was like yes, of course Iwould.
He's like great, we have thisprogram where I come back and I
reset the traps every month andit's a monthly fee.
And I was like that's a nobrainer, like eliminate that
stress from ever happening again.
And so we signed up for it.
Now here's what's interestingFast forward two years and then
(34:34):
Amy and I are lying in bed againand we hear and I'm like what?
What is going on?
Like this is this was supposedto be solved, right, we've never
had that problem for two yearsup to that point, cause the guy
has been consistent.
And then what I realized wasthat my credit card had expired
and it hadn't been processed.
So the guy hadn't come backthrough.
And I call him up and I'm likedude, like where he been.
(34:56):
He's like yeah, your creditcard's expired.
I'm like, give me a call.
Like just because my creditcard's expired doesn't mean I
don't want the service.
Like dude, you know, get on it.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
So I like this.
So let me tell you exactly whatAmy was doing.
He's on the phone going dude,dude.
She's on the phone with hey,real estate agent, yeah, we'd
like and list our house.
Now you're like no wait, wait,abby.
(35:26):
No wait, wait, wait.
Did that happen in your house?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
well, we did move, uh , we did move, yeah, um, but uh,
let me tell you what happenedto my house before I started my
business.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Uh, that shit was going down just like that.
You heard something in the roofand then she talked to a lady
in the neighborhood andunbeknownst to me cause I was
traveling, I was never at home.
And then I came home andthere's a real estate agent
sitting in my house.
I'm like what, what are wedoing?
He goes yes, I've been told wehave roof rats.
I'm like, uh, who told you wehave roof rats?
I said cause I?
(35:58):
I'm like, who told you we haveroof rats?
I said because the reason I'min the business I'm in, and
that's home repairs, is becauseI love working on homes.
I'm like we don't have roofrats, there's no source for them
here.
And she goes no, no, we'removing.
I'm like where are we moving to?
And the real estate agent saidwell, your wife says you're
looking for a $2 to $5 billionhome.
(36:18):
I said oh, is that what we'relooking for?
Oh, wow, oh, that's interesting, cause I need to work like four
more times than I am right now.
Yeah, so that's what I had toput up with, but at the end of
the day, we got rid of thesquirrels.
That's what they were.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Well and.
But here's the lesson in allthat.
It's just like thinking abouthow can you take a service that
would have been normally aone-time visit and turn it into
a recurring visit For me?
I am not a handyman, I am likemy dad is extremely handy, used
to play jokes on me all the time.
When I'd be quote trying tohelp him out, he'd be like hey,
(36:48):
son, can you pass me theleft-handed hammer?
And I'd be looking for theleft-handed hammer for days on
end, like I am the leasthandyman you could think of.
But what would be of service tome is like a handyman service
where every month I get acertain number of hours quick
check-in, come help me take outmy air filters, replace those,
(37:08):
change the light bulbs, hang thepictures, like.
It doesn't have to becomplicated, but it's about
creating convenience for peopleand they're more than willing to
pay for it on a regular basis.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Dude, you killed it for us and I hate that we're
running out of time, but we'velearned so much.
Obviously, surround yourselfwith great people, but
recruiting that membership, yougave us the areas you can do it
in for a number of our listeners.
You can pick that bucket andfigure out what's going on, make
it a no brainer.
The thing I took away that andthis is why I wanted you on,
because I'm still wrestling withthat one myself, like I said
(37:39):
that wrestling is that how do Imake this a no brainer?
Because we have a minimum feefor us to come out.
It's $230, $180 plus theservice visit.
But what I was just kickingaround with my team is that what
if we said but if you want tobecome part of our preferred
member program and our home homemembership, what I'll do is
(38:00):
I'll waive the, I'll waive the$80 and we'll just make it $50
or 150.
And then it's $15 a month.
And so that's just something wekicked around, because when I
first introduced this home hubmembership program, uh, now,
going on three years ago, I havebasically 10 people, but I have
over 17,000 people in mydatabase and I have um up to
(38:23):
3000 people who deal with everyevery year, so I know it's not
working.
And, um, and somebody said,well, why don't you do this?
And I'm like, well, that's alost leader for me.
But I think you're proving tome and proving to a lot of us,
that if we think about itdifferently, maybe even in the
commercial real estate business,there's a way to do this.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Well, that's like you need to call Stu.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I would be thinking about it differently.
I'd be thinking about it fromthe standpoint of, like, how do
I take a customer that wouldnormally spend, say, 300, maybe
$500 a year with me and turnthat into a customer that is
spending $1,200 a year?
Like I know for a fact, therewould be people who would be
more than willing to pay ahundred bucks a month for a
(39:03):
service that provides maybe anhour of, you know, check-ins
every month, and it may not evenbe every month, it might be
every quarter if that'snecessary.
But it's the comfort of peopleknowing that they don't have to
worry about their house fallingapart because they're not
maintaining water filters, airfilters, like all those kinds of
(39:24):
things Like, uh.
Here's a perfect example.
We have a uh, a skylight in ourbathroom and we can see that
there's something not rightthere.
Right, like the you know,there's water starting to do
something on that skylight.
We need somebody to look atthat.
But it's been a pain in thebutt for us to find somebody and
(39:45):
nail it down.
If I had the comfort of knowingevery month somebody's going to
come by and be like can you justtell me what I got to do here?
What should I be looking at andthinking about.
That's comfort of mind, that'speace of mind and people are
willing to pay for that.
And now you're taking acustomer that would normally
spend a few hundred dollars ayear with you, turn them into a
customer that's spendingthousands of dollars a year with
(40:05):
you and there's a very goodchance that in that handyman
being in that home, it's goingto lead to other projects.
So imagine, if you rethink howthat membership is operating,
it's more about a getting paidto scout out future projects.
Now that reframes the wholeconcept of that membership.
(40:27):
You're getting paid to be insomebody's home to identify
future projects.
That is amazing and that's awhole different business model
that could set that in a wholedifferent trajectory.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Oh my God, I got one more question.
We may just have to forego thefour questions, because I'm
going to have to forego the fourquestions because I'm over here
processing.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Well, we already know what his favorite book is yeah,
and that's a great book.
Actually I've written that downand that book was Jumpstart
your Brain by Doug Hall.
Love that, okay, and he'salready proven that he doesn't
like to work on houses and hisDIY nightmare story was mice.
But thank God your wife didn'ttake it to the absolutely
apocalyptic level that my wifedid, because that was a lot of
(41:09):
fun to walk in off the week away, flying in from the airport
with a real estate agency to myhome.
I'm like dude, what.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
So, stu, when you're working with a client, you're
coming up with a strategy.
You're coming up, maybe, withpricing Are you helping with
that?
And then you help themimplement how you market it, how
you train people, how youproject it on the internet.
I mean, is it a full serviceservice that you're providing?
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah, we have two ways in which well, three ways
in which we help people.
The first way is, like I have acourse which I teach people how
to launch and grow a membership, and that's been our flagship
program.
We've taught now nearly 19,000people how to launch, grow and
scale memberships and, as Imentioned, in all kinds of
markets that you could think of,and that's been our primary way
(41:59):
to serve people.
The second way is that we haveour own membership software
platform.
It's called membershipio, sothat is the platform I'm
incredibly biased that I thinkis the world's number one
platform for memberships, youknow.
And so that's the second way.
The third way is that, yeah, wehave a done for you service
(42:19):
where we work with clients andwe help them, you know, set up
their membership and launchtheir membership and certainly
grow it.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Fantastic, I was writing that stuff down, man.
This has been dynamite, allright, so membershipio.
How else can they find you, stu?
Let's get your digits out there.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Let's get all that out.
We'll put it on the show noteseverybody.
Yeah, best thing.
I have detailed everythingabout launching and growing a
profitable membership in mybrand new book called
Predictable Profits.
So if you go to Amazon, searchPredictable Profits and or Stu
McLaren, you'll find it.
But the easiest way to find outall the things is just go to my
website.
Stu S-T-U dot me like theshortest, easiest URL.
Stu dot me.
And if you want to see the bookand the extra bonuses, go to
(43:05):
Stu dot me.
Forward slash book.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
How is that available ?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Stu dot me yeah, how'd you pick that one up?
I mean that, come on seriously,there's actually a funny story
there.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
So I was coming home from with my wife, we had just
visited our accountant who wasbreaking down the numbers for
the year, and I knew that thatdomain was coming up for auction
.
And so I was legit.
My wife was driving, I'm in thepassenger seat and I'm bidding
on this domain name.
And my wife's like what are youdoing?
I said I'm trying to get thisdomain name.
She's like you havestewmclarencom.
(43:34):
I'm like yeah, but babes,everybody always butchers my
last name.
Like I just if I got stewed onme, it's way easier.
So I, I, uh, I finally I likegot it.
And she's like what did you payfor it?
And I said, uh, $18,000.
She said sorry, what was that?
And?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
I said uh, $18,000.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
She said you paid $18,000.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
I said no, I didn't, I only paid $600.
She's like oh okay, oh my god,that dude's a freaking master.
Jedi Mind Tricks by Stume.
Everybody remember Stume.
This thing has been amazing.
We have got to go.
Everybody You've been driving.
If you took on this long,you've got to.
You learned something, becauseI have learned a lot.
Number one mice make roof, ratsmake thump, thump, thump sounds
(44:24):
, by the way, so they'refreaking loud.
Stu, that was awesome.
Thank you, man.
Stu is the master ofmemberships.
Go check him out.
We're going to get this thingout there, but in the meantime,
we've got to go out there andmake some money.
Let's get out of here.
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