July 1, 2025 • 52 mins
What happens when a fallen preacher finds redemption behind prison walls? Kit Cummings shares his extraordinary journey from respected church leader to rock bottom, and how this painful path ultimately led him to discover his true calling.
With unflinching honesty, Kit reveals how the pressures of leading a 5,000-member congregation led to personal struggles that cost him everything. After a life-changing car accident that should have resulted in jail time but ended with what he calls "an angel in a cop uniform," Kit began a journey toward sobriety. His redemption story took an unexpected turn when he reconnected with a former mentee facing gang-related murder charges, opening the door to what would become his life's mission.
Through powerful storytelling, Kit takes us inside some of the world's most dangerous prisons, where he's created peace movements that have dramatically reduced violence. With vulnerability as his superpower, Kit has earned the respect of hardened gang leaders by approaching them not as broken souls needing salvation, but as teachers who helped him rediscover the principles of respect, integrity, and loyalty he had lost along the way.
The conversation expands beyond prison walls to Kit's work with youth through his "Protect the Dream" program, helping young people develop aspirations powerful enough to overcome negative influences. His insights about dream protection apply equally to business owners and anyone striving to maintain focus on their goals while navigating life's challenges.
This episode delivers profound lessons about redemption, purpose, and how our greatest failures can become the foundation for our most meaningful work. Kit's journey proves that transformation is possible in the most unlikely places, and that sometimes we find our truest calling only after losing everything we thought defined us.
#protectthedream#powerofpeace#kitcummings#respect#loyalty#integrity#prisons#gangsters#love
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
don't think there haven't been tests.
I mean, I got trapped in a vanin Tijuana that I thought was a
taxi and it wasn't.
It was coyotes hustlers thatcould have sold me.
I had to talk my way out ofthat van.
I credit all those brothersbehind the wire.
I'd spent so much time withthem that I knew how to talk to
somebody and reason with themlike here's why you can't let me
go.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help
guide you to avoid those traps,pitfalls and dangers that lurk
when navigating the wild worldof small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
(00:41):
and professional goals.
So strap in adventure team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
That's right, everybody.
It's time.
Roll up those windows, get thatdrive on.
(01:02):
Keep your eyes on the road,though man.
Don't be looking down andtrying to figure out a
fast-forward to the podcast.
Don't be figuring out otherstuff.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Are you talking to yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Don't be trying to multitask.
Look at Instagram, facebook andlisten to our podcast.
Do not put your knee on thewheel and then lean over and
start writing on the other sideof the door while you're doing
all that too.
Don't do any of that.
Don't be like chris.
Don't do as I do, do as I say,especially in this great city of
atlanta, where there is nothingbut the t word traffic.
(01:32):
That is everywhere, brother.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh my lord, it has been so badly and it's not just
slow, it's predatory, it's, it'shorrible, and if you're looking
like mad max, fury road yep,100 it is is eat or be eaten.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I saw a hubcap come flying across six lanes of 285
and not one person swerved andit hit one and just burst into a
million pieces.
I'm like, well, at least it wasplastic.
So you got that going for you.
And a little bit, a little bitlater you keep driving, you keep
driving and then you see thatwhen you don't you ever laugh,
when you look in the interior onthe median and you see like a
bumper and then another bumperand then another bumper, you're
(02:09):
like, oh, that was a bad one,yeah and nobody came by to pick
up the bumpers?
huh, not yet.
Nah, why too much work, oh boy.
So let's talk about the cursesof humanity and how bad people
can be I.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I don't like how you're doing this one.
No, I could just tell you rightnow.
I knew this.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, you know, Because that's the worst I've
ever been in is traffic court.
Literally the worst thing I'veever been in in my life when it
comes to the prison system istraffic court.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'd say you consider yourself lucky, huh, Chris.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I consider myself very lucky that I've never had
to see the inside of a realcourtroom in a real setting,
other than being a juror, and Idefinitely have not been inside
a prison, even though I did growup in a prison city in michigan
, jackson.
We were the prison city andevery time we'd show up we'd be
like, oh, it's those guys fromthe prison city, so you had a
reputation that you didn'tdeserve I don't.
I try to live up to it, though Itried.
(03:02):
I mean, if you watched me playbasketball, it was a full
contact sport for me, man.
But today we've got somebodythat Alan and I are really
excited to have a chance tointerview and talk with you guys
.
It's a little bit differentthan what we normally talk about
, but it is going to tie backinto business lessons, but we're
going to get a whole lot oflife lessons and about how
(03:24):
giving back and making thingsright with people is.
This is going to be fun.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, you know normally how we kind of have fun
with the fact that all of ourguests are better looking, they
have better hair, they've madebetter decisions, they make more
money, and then once in a whilewe feel extra bad because you
take all those things the hair,the money, the decisions and
then they give back to theircommunity a little bit in one
way or another, or their bookwas a bestseller and today we've
(03:49):
got all of that Plus.
I mean there's just a nobilityto what this guy has done that
I'm thankful there's people likehim on this planet.
I couldn't do what he's doing,nope, and uh, you know it's an
honor to have you here yep.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
So who is he?
He is kit cummings.
He is the founder of power ofpeace project popp bold mission
to bring hope, healing andtransformation to some of the
most dangerous and dividedspaces in the world.
Uh, kit is not just uh, goingto tell us about what he's done,
how he started, but he'sactually another thing that here
is kind of odd, kind of aunicorn.
(04:28):
He's a native to Atlanta, bornand raised in Marietta, or, as
people like to say, as I foundout, mayretta, mayretta.
There's no I in it.
So, kit, welcome to the show.
Man Can't wait to talk to you alittle bit more.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Thank you.
Thank you, guys for having meI've been looking forward to it
and congratulations on thesuccess of your podcast.
I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Oh, that's awesome.
The honor's ours man.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, so let's go back.
So you graduated from highschool.
You said I did a little time incollege.
Graduated from Georgia.
Go dogs.
Yes, sir, Two-time nationalchampions.
I like that.
We're still holding on to thatbecause it was two in a row, but
don't worry.
So you got out and then whatwas your calling?
What was your mission?
What did you go off and startoff doing?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Man, I have no clue.
I just didn't want to get outof Georgia.
I mean, there was no reason towant to leave.
Have you guys been in Athensbefore?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, I had two kids, that no.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I was that guy.
I'll tell you the day and age.
It was way before HopeScholarship days.
I got into the Terry School ofBusiness with a 2.9.
And that is a fact.
It was like my son had to go toGeorgia State.
First he had a 4.something Ididn't even know there was over
4.
Now you got all these freakingkids brilliant.
(05:47):
But anyway he had to take aminute just because of the hope.
So I was back in those days inGeorgia but I still got that
diploma and it's still GeorgiaBack in the day we got hated on.
But anyway I took my time goingthrough Athens and I got out
and got into the music business.
You know, I mean just because Ihad a friend whose dad was like
a big wig in those days and so Iwas like in rock and roll for a
(06:09):
minute and then I just had ahuge change in my life.
I always tell people I say,like you know what's your story?
I'm the wildest guy ever tobecome a preacher.
So it's like nobody saw thatcoming.
Nobody saw me coming up likethat young man's cut out for
ministry I.
So it's like nobody saw thatcoming.
Nobody saw me coming up likethat young man's cut out for
ministry.
I was the other guy and justwild.
(06:29):
I mean, I come from an honest,you know my family line.
This is what it is thirsty andyou know, just went through a
lot of drama growing up.
I was a good athlete andpopular, you know.
School came pretty easy for me.
I was a good part of town, butI still found trouble.
Just a knucklehead and um, andso, you know, by the time I got
(06:50):
out of college I was, I wasready to roll, but at 25 I just
was out of gas, and so that'swhen I had my first major kind
of life-changing moment so let'stalk about that life-changing
moment Not what it was, but thetrigger.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And then what set you on that path to become a
minister, and how did you evenknow how to become a minister?
Speaker 3 (07:11):
You don't want to know what the life-changing
moment was.
I mean, come on you did adramatic pause.
That's where you go tocommercial, all right, and then
you come back.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, I'm not really sure I'm ready for that yet, man
, because I know where you'vebeen preaching and I know what
you've seen and I'm like, oh myGod, I'm worried.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You can't handle the truth I can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You're right, I'm weak.
All right, go ahead, hit mewhat happened.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
No living had caught up with me and I was trying to
quit as a young man and I was acouple months in trying to get
sober and I met a guy whochanged my life.
I was playing basketball, whichis one of my things, and one of
the guys on the court he justhad a shine about him.
He was different and he wasn'treligious.
He was just different to thepoint where I was like I went to
him after one of the games andI said what is your deal, man?
He's like what's up?
And I said what do you do?
(08:08):
He said I'm a minister and Iwas like I've never seen one
like you, but I'd never been inmany churches.
I wasn't that guy and I startedhanging out with him and I just
changed me and he put me on astage just at a regular worship
service it's not like I was paidto be there or anything and he
gave me a part and I got up andit was a pretty large audience
and something happened inside ofme, something turned on and I
(08:31):
was like man, I don't know whatthat was, but I want to do that
again.
And everybody in the audiencewas like I'd like for him to do
that again, and so it was just amagical moment, and that was
1990, you'd never done anypublic speaking before that,
nope, I didn't even like it.
I mean, I didn't.
I was, you know, like everybody.
It's like one of the secondgreatest fears or the first.
(08:52):
It's ahead of dying, I think,and I was like everybody else,
but I don't know.
Magic happened and I sat downand said man, I want to do this.
And, um, one thing led toanother and I did that.
The way that I did everythingelse in my life good, bad,
whatever I got one speed andit's all out.
So I'm either trying to savethe world or tear it up is one
(09:12):
of the others.
So I went that way and itturned out I had a gift and I
didn't know I had it.
It was hiding and it came out.
And then I rode that ride for15 years and led some large
churches.
By the time I was in my midthirties, I was co-leading a
church of about 5,000 people.
It was heavy, and then thatkind of led me toward the next
dramatic change Pause, pausecommercial.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Commercial time.
No, I got to go back.
So I think one of the thingsthat's very common and we've
heard this quite a bit is thatsometimes we talk to people
who've started their ownbusiness and they didn't pick
their business intentionally.
The business picked them,whether it be a mentor that said
, no, you just need to go dothis, or, hey, you're laid off.
Now you better go findsomething.
And they found somethingthrough franchising.
(09:56):
And in your case, you sawsomebody who was different and
you saw enough in that person toactually reach out to him and
he saw enough in you to helpmentor people and he gave back.
He actually gave back and said,look, follow this and see if
this is going to be your way.
And, by the way, I'm going to,I'm going to put you up there
and make it happen.
And next thing, you know ithappened, the spark happened.
So that's I think that's agreat lesson for a lot of us is
(10:18):
that when you get to thesepositions where we're doing the
podcast, why are we doing it?
And we talked about this topeople and I'm like I wish I
would have had this when Istarted my business, because I
didn't know who to talk to.
Yeah, I was trying to network,quote unquote.
But you know what, if I wouldhave had this podcast and I
would have been able to drivearound and just listen to a few
things go oh man, don't makethat stupid mistake.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, it's interesting.
He had to take the step, though.
He had to take the step.
He saw something in this guyand he went and asked him what
his deal was, and then the guyends up giving him an
opportunity to be on stage andinstead of saying no, he said
I'll do it.
So you have to have the guts tojust take that leap, ask the
right questions.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
so there's a little something in you that you know
is pushing you in the rightdirection.
It's a common theme.
I'm glad you said that becauseI'm a yes guy.
I mean to a fault I was thatguy.
I mean, growing up I was thekid.
It's like somebody said I betyou wouldn't do that.
I said, watch me do this and Ijust I will take advantage of
every moment and I'll do thecrazy thing.
And that did not serve me verywell for a long time and then it
(11:21):
did, because now it's a way oflife.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It's like, yeah, let me do that.
Yeah, because some of thethings on your bio I'm like I
wouldn't say yes to that, I know.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Oh no, there's.
Yeah, we haven't gotten thatone.
So back to our next dramaticpause coming out of commercial
break.
But we've got a lot ofcommercials on this show, we're
going to have one.
So next dramatic pause, you'releading a church 5,000.
Like you said, you saidsomething that was very key is
that it's very heavy.
The weight of the flock is onyou, right, and then having to
do all the things you had to do,plus be that great preacher and
(11:53):
be somebody that people lookedup to and wanted to come here,
it gets heavy.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It does.
You live in a fishbowl whereeverywhere you go it's like
they're watching.
You know I'm saying you're onstage.
Um, a reputation you knowperhaps you can't live up to.
You know, preachers are put ona pedestal and it's just people,
yeah, flawed, broken people.
In this particular preacher, awounded healer, right, I mean,
(12:19):
because I'm the guy that wasbroken and then came to faith.
I didn't grow up that way andso, you know, unfortunately,
kind of the old me, they kind ofcame back and so over those
last years of ministry marriedtwo beautiful kids, you know,
adoring congregation, greatreputation.
Behind the I was slipping, thedrinking came back, I just
(12:43):
started slipping and that kindof drew me away from some of the
brothers I was very close to.
Because in that line of work,if you're in the spotlight,
leading a lot of people, got abig staff, you better have some
brothers close to you.
That know you know you.
You know what I'm saying,because we're just men.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
And we're a decision away from doing something stupid
.
And um, I didn't.
It's like we talk about inbusiness.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
You got to have that board of directors and somebody
will tell you no, yes, yes, yesyes, and you see that a lot in
this particular field.
You see someone get to thatprominent place and then it's a
cautionary tale, you know,because they didn't have
anybody's life and and I kind ofgot to that point and I lost my
heart and I walked away from it.
They didn't ask me to leave,they asked me to stay.
When I said I ain't got itanymore, I got to go and so I
(13:30):
resigned, walked away and I justshoot that nature from the past
that I thought was washed away,that joke I've been doing,
doing pushups in the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Did you feel like you were running that double life?
You know you the imposter, youknow you got up there on a
Sunday and you you give thisthing and people are like, oh,
oh, pastor Cummings, that wasjust amazing.
And then you go hide away andgo.
You have no idea how bad I amright now.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, yeah, it was definitely that.
It was a struggle, meaning Iwas in the battle.
I never just said bump it andgave up and became the double
life guy.
It wasn't that, it was justslipping at night having a
couple of glasses of wine andthen bigger glasses and then
stupid rules that alcoholics doLike not every day.
(14:17):
So I wouldn't drink on Sundayno more than two.
Two.
So I just get bigger and biggerglasses.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
It's like get a box wine so that your spouse can't
tell how much you're drinking.
You know what I'm saying?
This is that whole ask meanything part, yeah and uh, and
just playing those exhaustinggames.
And so it wasn't like I was outat a hotel the night before,
you know, no, I was home, but Ibut I was just wounding my
conscience and my soul.
And then I was pointed out.
(14:44):
Man, I was always preachingpassionately, authentically.
I wasn't playing a game, but Iwas just hurting inside and
nobody really knew it and mymarriage was on the rocks and I
thought it was better than itwas.
When you're in that kind ofrole, you're insulated because
you've got elders and deaconsand staff and you know what I'm
saying fellow preachers andthings, and people come to you
(15:05):
to find out about marriage youknow what I'm saying or about
raising kids, and it was just ithad grown cold and so when I
stepped out of the ministry andI didn't have that support
around me, I just flames andjust went off and ended up going
through a divorce.
My fall from grace was publicand um, which was very, very
hard for me, and a lot of peopleknow me in this town even if I
(15:27):
hadn't been in a public positionfor all those years.
I know a lot of people anyway,and so then it was like talk of
the town.
You know at least people thatknew me.
Man, you're my kid, you knowcrashing cars and hanging out
strip joints, it was like that.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
so so it was definitely the fall from grace,
the angel fall from grace.
And then you said in the publicfashion um you that that
struggle.
You said how old were your kidsat that point?
Six and nine what was hurtingworse the kids or the public
persona, what you thought peoplewere thinking about you?
What, which of those two wasworse?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I, I don't know man, I was really connected to my
kids.
I wasn't absent, but you know,the wounds would show up later
with the kids, which is oftenthe case with divorce and also
with your being a preacher's kid.
You've heard of that before PKs.
There's a, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I might know one.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Alan.
There we go All his life.
His dad was a preacher andthere's a pressure that comes
with that, right yep, andeverybody's trying oh, you're
supposed to be something, and alot of times you go the other
way.
Yep, um.
So anyway, I think that that'sprobably the answer to that
question.
But, um, luckily it was.
It was a year, it was 2004, andit was a reckless year, man, I
(16:37):
mean.
I mean I shook my fist at Godand I cursed him and I said I
don't want nothing to do withyou anymore.
This is what I get after allthis.
And I was mad at everybody butme, but really I was mad at me.
But I swore him off and I saidleave me alone.
And I went on a run and I meanI'm talking about dark, reckless
(16:57):
, like serial drunk driver justout there on the streets.
I mean hurting so bad and justtrying to stop the pain.
I'm really getting to the pointwhere I don't know if I even
want to be here anymore likethat, after I had had it all.
You know, I mean, what do youdo when you, when you realize
your dreams?
You know what I'm saying andyou're doing what you were put
on.
I knew I was doing what I wasborn to do and I squandered it.
(17:18):
And so I think all that shamejust caved in on me and I just
tried to numb it and I got tothe point where I was just
hopeless and when you look backand I know obviously this
story's got another arc to it.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
It's coming, yeah.
Yeah, you hit bottom andbounced up, but if you could go
back and talk to yourself whenyou were in that position, could
you have talked yourself out ofthis before you?
I mean, you know what.
What could you have donedifferently?
Or did you need to go throughthis to get to where you are now
(17:49):
?
Gosh?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I mean great question , because if I went back and had
that talk with myself and it'slike just just be honest to you
know, just be real when you'rehurting, find somebody, talk to
somebody, go get.
Just be honest to you know,just be real when you're hurting
, find somebody, talk tosomebody, go get the help you
need, whatever it is Um, butthen my story wouldn't be what
it is.
I mean, if I, if you don't gothrough what you got to go
through, there's no way I'mdoing what I'm doing today,
(18:11):
which I can't.
I love it so much I'll die forit.
Like you got to kill me to stopme from doing what I'm doing.
There is no plan b, there's noway to get me there without all
the drama that makes sense?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
yeah, it does, you know.
I think, uh, that's anothergreat business lesson for a lot
of us.
Um, where do you learn the mostyour failures?
Yeah, we know, we've learned alot, we, we are so smart, we.
You know what the reason westarted this podcast, alan?
Because, guys, we are thesmartest listen.
You've listened.
Go back and listen to some ofthese podcasts.
I have failed spectacularly inmany different ways, and Alan
(18:42):
has as well, and he knows that.
But failing like you did there,and I asked that question the
public pressure or the kids andyou kind of didn't answer but it
sounds like it was you.
The biggest part was it was allpressure and that's one of the
things I know.
You do a lot of coaching withkids, but you remember that from
sports and that is, pressurecomes from within, not from
outside.
You let outside pressure, butyou all internalize it and it
(19:05):
becomes your pressure and yougot to be able to release that,
get that out there so you can doyour thing.
So that pressure pushed you into this.
So now, what, when?
What was this next definingmoment that moved you?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
up.
Well, and it is.
I mean, it's a forged by firestory.
I'm excited to hear the rest ofit.
But when you were talking aboutearlier, even just when you
became it's interesting howpreachers are held to a higher
standard and you came from kindof a wild youth and yet if you
didn't have that wild youth, youwouldn't be able to connect
with people that you'repreaching to.
That's so true, to connect withpeople that you're preaching to
(19:38):
, and they know that piece andso they respect you for it.
But now they're holding you tothis higher standard.
It's kind of an interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It's an interesting lens and I think I was already
set up for that.
The adult child of an alcoholicalready feels uncomfortable in
their own skin, already has thatimposter syndrome going on.
It's like if people only knew Imean, that was way before I
ever got to the stage.
You know I had that going on'slike if people only knew, I mean
that was way before I ever gotto the stage.
You know I had that going on.
So then I just confirmed it allyou know, when I fell.
It's like all right and so allright.
(20:07):
Well, what's wrong with you nowall?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
right the the crashed yeah, literally.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
so I'm, oh, I'm, I'm in a club and I got to the point
where I don't care if anybodyrecognized me anymore and, um
yeah, I'm down certain part ofAtlanta.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I'm picturing bad Santa.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Oh, definitely bad.
Santa man, you've ever watchedthat movie?
No, I.
And he says a certain part ofAtlanta and I think I, I think I
can picture, I know I canpicture that place.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Don't get off of it I .
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Don't get off of it.
I know that road For yourlisteners in Portland.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Portland doesn't know this one.
Tasmania doesn't know this.
Do you, troy?
No, you don't.
All right.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So, anyway, I come staggering out of that place at
2.30 in the morning because thelights came on and you had to
leave and I poured myself intomy car and I stayed heading up
Beaufort Highway, headingtowards Suwannee where we lived
at the time.
This would be the last night Iever stayed in my house and, um,
I just didn't quite make it.
I got a mile away and then Ijust passed out and car kind of
(21:08):
swerved to the right, boom, hitthis like embankment with a
guardrail, which if it wasn'tthere I'm not here, bro.
I mean, it's like I literallypassed out at just the right
time.
If it was a second later I'mprobably done.
And so I'm busted up a littlebit and I'm on the road.
It's 3 o'clock in the morningand I'm confused and a cop car
pulls up and I'm like, oh no, Idon't remember it much.
(21:29):
Well, he takes my license andthen he does this I've never
heard of this before.
He goes and he doesn't cuff meand he puts me in the front seat
of the squad car.
Like I've been in police carsbefore, I didn't know there was
a front seat.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah right, and I'm not cuffed up and I pass out in
the front seat right by thecomputer.
It's like I don't know if theyhad them back then, but it's
been a minute.
And then we drive away and thenext thing I know, this cop's
gently waking me up and I'm atmy house and he lets me go.
He doesn't even write me aticket, calls a tow truck for my
car.
Next day I get a call we gotyour car.
(22:05):
I don't know what happened.
So I mean I preach this now Alot of times- like in prisons,
like there's an angel in a copuniform.
Even more.
I'm like I met the devil in aStrip Club and an angel drove me
home that night Becausesomething was said that night.
Somebody looked at me and saidsomething to me.
It shook me and so that was thebeginning of my awakening.
(22:27):
Like bro, straighten up, orthis ain't going to end well,
you about to run out of gracehere.
And I went and got some help,got sober in 2005.
And then the dramatic.
I prayed a prayer.
Prayer made a promise thatchanged my life, and Whoever
people pray to, whatever youbelieve your faith, tradition or
whoever believe you created allthis.
(22:48):
I was talking to that, thatcreator, and I said, if you ever
let me preach the word again,I'll go to the ones that nobody
wants to go to, the hated,feared, forgotten, the hungry,
thirsty, naked, stranger, sickprisoner.
The least of these is what themaster called them.
I said I'll go to them becauseI'm like no church can have me
anymore.
It's not like people areputting one ads out.
(23:08):
You know, wanted drunken,fallen preachers.
That ship had sailed, and so Ifelt like he was saying I got
you.
And so I did that in 2005.
I prayed that prayer in 2008.
That's how long it took to cometo fruition.
He brings a kid back into mylife that I mentored when he was
(23:28):
12 or 13 years old, and nowhe's all grown up.
At this point, 10 years later,mom calls me.
He's gang-related murder charge, potential death penalty.
Ms-13 leader, if you've heardof that.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, bad news Terrorist now Bad news.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So he was that guy.
He was hated, feared, he wasforgotten, he was dangerous.
And they said and his momwanted me to work with him.
And the authorities told medon't mess with him, he's a
dangerous man, he's a killer.
And I said you don't know himlike I know him.
I knew him before the streetsgot him and so I worked with him
for two years.
I felt like God was sayingthat's your church.
Now I have one guy, one kid.
(24:02):
Save his life and he saved mine.
We saved each other's life.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And he's in jail at this point.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
He walked out this past year.
Next week I'm going to see hisface for the first time in 20
years.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
In 20 years.
So when you talked to him,though, it was behind the in the
prison, going to jail and goingto talk to him, and and so when
you first met him there's noway he just went oh hey, kit,
you're here.
Yeah, you're right, I'm wrong.
Um, yep, let god back in myheart.
No way, uh, no, it changed me.
No, that didn't happen.
It doesn't.
It's not just not that easy.
People want to think it's likethat.
Right, you have theseepiphanies you had your crash
(24:36):
and your angel took you home,but you, you just said, right
there, it took you three years.
It wasn't easy.
It's a grind, just like runninga business, just like life I
mean life you've got to havehabits.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
But the kid kept meeting with you, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Every week.
Two years he became ahigh-profile witness.
He cooperated with the feds,made a deal, which is what got
the death penalty and the lifesentence off the board, and I
testified for him in the opencourtroom.
Ms-13 sent me a threat.
I mean it was real Like I had acop car in my cul-de-sac
because there was an activethreat.
I mean I dove in.
(25:11):
I was like I'm all in, you know, and I think that was the
turning point for me.
I've been afraid of stuff allmy life.
Now I was always the guy whowould do anything, but there was
this fear and I faced it.
I'd already collapsed, I'dalready lost everything.
You know what I'm saying.
And so I was just like why not?
And that set me up.
Two years working with him, itset me up.
(25:31):
And then I was invited by aprison ministry to go into
georgia's most violent prison.
I didn't know any better.
I'm like I've never done it.
I was like, yeah, let's go.
And when I walked in therewhich is what prison?
Hayes, hayes State Prison, moreactive gang members than any
prison in the state it's just onfire.
But I had been working withLuis the whole time and I'm like
(25:51):
I ain't shoot out now.
That changed my life, give mesome more.
And so I went in there andstarted making friends and I
tried an experiment, changed my.
That prison went from worst tofirst.
We started a peace movement.
It caught on the heaviestgangsters in the whole system
started calling different shotsand it put me on the map and
I've been to over 100 prisonsnow.
I mean it's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
All right, so you go into these prisons.
I mean they shake you down, yougo in there.
I mean you said no fear, Comeon, man, there's a little fear,
right?
I mean a little, Is there any?
I mean seriously, dude.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I'm, afraid right here.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I know, I'm afraid, I'm afraid that we're putting
this out there and people are.
You can pick it up in theprisons.
Hey man, I'm telling you guys,you want to start a business,
small business safari?
I wouldn't do it, no.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I wouldn't have the guts.
I can't explain it or takecredit for it, and I certainly
don't encourage it.
But fear has not been a part ofmy game, it's excitement.
Mexican prisons are one of myfavorite things.
Which are notorious in themovies and everything, and there
(26:59):
are everything and that andmore.
And the first time I got to go,I just couldn't wait for it to
come.
It's a week away, I can't wait.
And walking through the gate, Idon't know what it is, other
than just I kind of am supposedto do this, and I think it's
that that the brothers on theinside really respect One.
I go in there vulnerably and Isay man, you saved my life.
(27:20):
And they're like we don't evenknow you, dude, or through a
translator, and I say, no, butyou changed my life.
And I tell them the story.
The drunken, fallen preacherthat came back through a bunch
of gangsters convicts and theylove it because it's vulnerable.
I'm not some do-good preachertrying to save them.
I'm like no, bro, save me.
I'm not trying to bring God toyou, I'm looking for God in you.
I need you.
(27:40):
And immediately, boom, it's on.
And I start telling them thestory and I start teaching my
principles and they stand up.
They're stand-up guys.
Their whole world is respect,integrity and loyalty Three
things that I should havelearned in the ministry and I
did not.
Respect, shoot.
I mean, if we disrespect eachother, we might not be friends.
If I disrespect somebody.
(28:01):
In there I got a problem andout here in the free world, if I
tell you I'm going to besomewhere and I miss it sorry
bro you'll forgive me and inviteme back.
Maybe in there it don't worklike that Loyalty if I say I got
you and then when things godown I'm not there for you.
I got a problem and so I had tolearn those key things respect,
(28:25):
integrity, loyalty behind thatrazor wire and they taught me
well and it has served meeverywhere I go.
So I can look at a killer nowand he sees me and I see him
because I've been around them.
And I don't say killer, like Imean there are so many brothers
in there that are more noblementhan me, honorable, honest,
faithful, righteous.
I mean that that I'm not sayingit, but there's.
There's a code behind that wirethat they taught me.
That has made me a better manand that's why I can't quit, you
(28:47):
know go well.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Wow, I mean, it's just, let's go back let's go
back.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
You said his name, luis.
What?
What was it that he did for youin those three years?
He?
Needed me and you needed to beneeded.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You need to be able to preach be able to talk to
somebody one-to-one and feelneeded again I needed a purpose.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You know what I'm saying.
I needed to be needed, I neededto be the guy.
I told God I ain't going totalk to you anymore, I'm going
to read your book, I'm not goingto go see your people, and all
of a sudden I'm in front of Luisand I'm like studying the Bible
with him and praying with himand I'm trying to help him.
He's teaching me everythingabout the gang life that
civilians don't get to know, andso he educated me.
(29:31):
I needed that.
I educated him, I told him, butit was cathartic and every time
I would go into a prison.
And today, every time I do it,it's cathartic, bro.
It's like all the shame thathas been inside of me is just
released because I can talk tothese men about stuff I can't
talk about on this podcast and Icertainly can't talk about from
a pulpit.
But I I shared my deepest,darkest and they laughed and
(29:54):
they cheered.
It's like, oh, because they hadnever seen a preacher like me.
Right, he's like he's messed up.
You know, I'm saying, and Ibecame a made man and now I'm a
protected man, so I don't got tobe afraid in there anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'm very protected but sure, now, yeah, now, I mean
now, brother, uh, I'm still notwalking in there with you.
Well, actually, if you inviteme, I will, because change your
life, yeah, I will.
I will with you only because,uh, you man, this has been very
powerful.
You get what's going down ifyou're listening to this,
because you can translate backto your life, all over the place
(30:26):
, some of the worst people inyour life.
If you really dial it downwhere you think they are respect
, loyalty and integrity.
You know what and you thinkabout that.
He said behind the wire,there's more of that than there
might be outside.
And I'm like, after all thoseyears in corporate America, yeah
100%.
That's a big fuck, yeah, yeahyeah.
(30:51):
Oh, we can go there.
Oh, yeah, that's three of themright there, man, I'm like, I'm
like no, no and no, I'm like, oh, my god, they're like oh, for
three.
And I went, oh, but you evensaid oh, you're late, okay,
that's okay, hey, um, well, youdid me dirty on that one and
okay, well, we'll give you overon that one.
But I see it now, and now it'slike no, no, you've got to have
those rules, and those rules getreally hard when you're in a
(31:12):
place where it's unfortunate andyou're tested.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Um, don't think there haven't been tests.
I mean I, I got trapped in avan in tijuana that I thought
was a taxi and it wasn't.
It was coyotes hustlers thatcould have sold me.
I had to talk my way out ofthat van.
I credit all those brothersbehind the.
I'd spent so much time withthem that I knew how to talk to
somebody and reason with themLike, here's why you gotta let
me go.
I mean they served me, you know.
(31:35):
I mean there's been time.
I mean there've been threats.
You know, tell the white boy towatch his back.
That went out through out hazeand I knew I was in trouble.
I messed with somebody's moneyor something and the brothers
rose up and it it taught me somany things.
It's like face your fear, walkback in, you know.
I'm saying you got to, becausewhat are you going to do if you
don't walk back in?
Then who are you?
I promised, I promised them, Ipromised him, I promised myself
(32:00):
I can go.
Quit this the first thing in mylife I've never quit beside my
second marriage and I'm in lovemy wife.
But do you see how it all goesback to them?
Their code, and so now, don'tget a twisted.
I always have to say thisbecause there are beautiful,
beautiful people listening thisshow that are probably really
struggling with me right now,because I'm serving those who
(32:21):
have done horrible Things thatcan never be taken back, and to
them I say god bless you, I getit, but every man that I can
change in there maybe doesn'tget out come and hurt your
daughter or come to yourneighborhood, right, you know
what I'm saying.
So it is public safety, but Ihave to say it gently because
I'm working with some very toughpeople you said uh, hayes went
(32:43):
from worst to first.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
What did?
Did that mean?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
It was daily stabbings, I mean weekly
violence, riots, craziness, justlike on fire.
And I think that, again, godput me in the right place at the
right time.
There's 12 of us.
I was working with these dudes.
It was like a faith program,but they all were connected
Crips, bloods, gangsterDisciples.
Were they the leaders of thosegroups?
(33:07):
They were high enough.
I had a couple of heavy guys inthere and we just started
dreaming.
I was trying to recreate myself.
I mean I needed something newand I'm like what would it take
to bring peace to this prison?
And everybody laughed and saidthis prison will never have
peace here.
And I said but if it was, whatwould we do?
We started talking about Kingand Gandhi and Mandela and
(33:27):
Malcolm and these greatnonviolent peacemakers, and we
started talking about them andhow peace is more powerful than
violence.
And I would challenge them.
I'd say, like you got two gangleaders.
One of them can order a crew togo and wet a guy up.
The other one has so much powerhe can say there ain't going to
be no violence right now for 40days in a row.
(33:48):
It's off which one has morepower and the brothers would
have to go.
The dude that can bring thepeace.
So which is more powerful?
Peace?
How about if I give you a newkind of power?
What if I help give you a wayto stand down without losing
respect?
And I mean respect's everything.
They'll die for it, they'llkill for it.
(34:10):
And they, they stood up and itgot to be world.
Two or three of the real heavyguys said all right, if you do
it, I'll do it.
But if you, you know, if it wasvery fragile in the beginning
and I started getting they, letme get.
With 15 heavy guys in the prison, we started negotiating peace
before things would happen.
I mean, here's what my meetingslook like.
I mean sitting there.
All right, bro, how's it?
You know we're in a smallchapel, no keys in the room, no
officers.
I don't know why they did that,but they did.
(34:32):
And these are rivals, bro.
And one brother puts his hand upand said this week in C1,
brother was tied up in a sheet,set on fire and thrown off the
tier.
What are we going to do aboutthat?
You know, we got to get backand I'd have to open it up to
the guys and say what are wegoing to do about it?
We'd have to talk about it,negotiate Well, we'll do this,
but we're not going to do this.
Blah, blah, blah.
And we started putting downbeasts before they ever even
(34:55):
happened and the warden didn'teven know how we were doing it.
Peace just started to come andthen the daggum place got so
peaceful that they thought thewalkie won't work and the
brothers started pouring out.
Until we had this movement onfridays.
It was a hundred guys in a roomand they're all gangsters and
man.
It was cool that that they werebecoming the change.
And then they won that awardand, uh, you know, michigan
(35:20):
changed my life.
Next place I went muskegon,michigan.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Um, whether it's not where I was, jackson three
prisons right there together andtwo years.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
we did the program over and over Over 1,000 guys
went through it.
Violence dropped 50% in twoyears.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
All right.
So you started this movement.
You did this.
You're not going back to Haysright now because you've been
able to set that program and soyou've been going to other
places, not only here in the US,but you've already mentioned
Mexico.
So how did you get that wordout?
And you started to grow thisthing and and oh, by the way,
you still have to live and eat,and so you're.
Are you making money doing thisthing?
I mean, I mean not to go downto it, but at the end of the day
(35:55):
, you still got to eat.
Yeah, so is this a business?
Is this how to go?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, it was.
It was crazy because trying toconvince my new wife that this
is how I'm going to make aliving and trying to go out, I
started my nonprofit in 2011,.
But trying to raise money tohelp the people that I'm trying
to help, you know, it eventuallyevolved into a youth movement
which people are way behind.
You know what I'm saying.
So, yes, it's my only, but Imean you mentioned small
business.
Startups or small businessowners are trying to make it
(36:23):
through whatever a pandemic or arecession, or just a life storm
, whatever it's like.
I always had a plan B and thisis the first time I never had a
plan B.
It's just I've got to make it.
I've got to.
I got no choice and I just dowhat I got to do.
But how did I get it out there?
I just started riding withother people that were already
going in.
So I hooked up with anotherpreacher in a group that was
(36:43):
going and doing Mexican prisons.
I said let me come and I'd ridein with them and then I'd
establish my own reputation andthen they'd have me come back.
I mean, I danced with Zuluwarriors in South African
prisons and went into Ukrainianprisons and Honduran prisons,
which are the craziest ones inthe world.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Really, and the message, the same message,
resonates around the world.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I had one of my books translated into Spanish, had an
interpreter named Jesus and gotin front of 50 guys, most of
them probably cartels, in acrazy prison at Tijuana, mexico,
and dadgummit.
If they didn't light up, theyjust like somebody to believe in
them, somebody to look forlight in them, when all they are
is feared, you know and hate it.
It's like you go in there and,authentically, don't fear them.
(37:25):
And plus, I trust them rightoff the jump.
I tell them, I, off the jump, Itell them I'm going to respect
you and I'm going to trust youwith my life.
I don't even know you yet, butI'm going to trust you with my
life.
I'm going to see if you'retrustworthy and something
happens and it just spread.
And then finally it tipped andI started getting invited to
(37:46):
prisons.
That would hear about it, right.
And then when I was in thoseprisons, there's always schools
in those communities and thoselittle towns, the prisons
usually the biggest employer intown.
So the word spreads quick who'sthis dude?
And and they had me come andspeak at the schools and the
kids were just, you know, tightbecause it was gangster.
You know they're in a gangsterculture, I don't care if you're
up here in Johns Creek or downin Carver, downtown Atlanta.
(38:10):
Gangster is cool with kids,right.
So that was the bridge I'm like.
I started telling them abouthow the power of peace in the
prisons and then we startedgoing towards homicide,
incarceration, crime, gangviolence, all that and the tough
underserved communities.
But up here in Johns Creek I'vedone my program in Milton.
They gave me a statechampionship ring, the first one
in 18, the first one they won.
(38:32):
Well, we might not be losingkids to incarceration and
homicide and gangs, but whatabout date rape and suicide and
overdose?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
accidental death.
And so, to put this in contextfor a lot of folks who aren't
familiar with Atlanta, of coursewe're Atlanta based for a lot
of us, but he's talking aboutwhite suburbia and let's call it
like it is.
He's talking about thedifference between Atlanta,
which is a very heavy blackcommunity in town, atlanta, but
he's talking about whitesuburbia.
So when he went out there,everybody's thinking, oh well,
(39:01):
these guys are all perfect,there's nothing going on, and
it's like, yeah, chris, alreadyshaking his head.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Everybody's got their demons.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Oh, they've all got demons and losing kids and a lot
of suicide, yep Suicides andthe drugs and the access to
drugs that kids have across theboard.
So that's your ministry.
You're doing juveniles, you'reworking with the.
So how I get back to this whois paying for this?
Is this our people?
Are you?
Speaker 3 (39:26):
going to foundation.
I just can't.
Chris wants to know if you havea boat.
Ah, you better have a boat.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
No, oh well all right he knows people with big boats.
He gets to go on the big TTByacht.
Then what do you say?
Foot pontoon boat?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
But anyway, you know you figure it out.
There's I've got donors thathave resources, that love and
support what we're doing.
You know little grants here andthere.
Um, you know I speak, sellbooks and do a lot of different
things.
So there's, your books makemoney, yeah, speaking more than
my book.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
There we go, now we're talking because, uh, my
darling wife just got donetelling somebody who wanted to
write a book.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
She said we better talk to chris first, because uh,
it's gonna cost you more thanit's gonna make you right in
front of me I'm like that hurt,uh, that one stuck the tipping
the, the thing that resonated,and I couldn't have done it this
way because it wouldn't havebeen authentic when times were
really hard, like I'm trying tofigure out how to hustle and
make a dollar.
Um, if I'd have said peoplesaid go to the kids, people will
(40:27):
.
And I'm like I ain't supposedto do that yet, it's gotta be
You're monetizing that?
Yeah, for the money right,that's an easy buck right.
Yeah, but it evolved over theyears.
And here's the magic ingredientI don't care if it's a hardcore
prison or whether it's asuburban school or it's down in
the tougher communities.
Whatever is dreams, it's likethe power of a dream.
(40:51):
Dr King started it all.
We jumped off that firstprogram on his birthday in 2011,
mlk Day and it was a dream.
Would these prisoners dare todream, even the ones that were
doing what they call all daylong, which is life sentence, no
parole?
Could I get them to dream?
And then now, with the kids,it's called Protect the Dream,
which is another one of thebooks I wrote, and it's really
(41:12):
about, if you help somebodydevelop a big enough dream, that
dream has a strong pull to it.
It's physics the big thingpulls the small thing, and so
the bigger the dream, thestronger the pull, and what kids
lack in today's world is a bigdream.
So help them design a dream,manifest it and then protect it
from what we call dream killers.
And that would be how they usesocial media, perspective,
(41:35):
authority objectification, drugand alcohol, bullying, you know,
wow, unhealthy relationships.
So it's really the whole game,and then we take it back to
business, all right.
Well, so so you.
You've realized the dream.
You started your business.
Maybe it's Maybe you're stilltrying to get there.
You got to protect it fromwhat's going to kill that dream.
That's what I did not do withmy ministry.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
I did not protect my dream Right, a hundred percent,
that's exactly it.
And it seems so trite to goback to business and and I'm I'm
going to just for a minute thengo to go back.
You're so shallow, I am soshallow, can I get a bigger boat
?
Uh, but protect that dream man,is that?
You're right?
You, you make decisions, andI've heard somebody say this a
long time ago.
Every decision you make limits.
(42:14):
Uh, how far you can gothroughout your life.
You know you, uh, go to college, okay, well, you're gonna go in
that one.
Um, if you have a kid out ofwedlock early on in life, that's
a real.
That takes a lot of the buffetaway.
You know, I'm saying, and so,but what kit's talking about is,
you know, helping peopleunderstand that early on and
goes back to the community.
But my biggest question is man,you don't know this on the
(42:34):
podcast and you haven't figuredit out yet.
Kit's a white man and he gotthe mlk award which, again, if
you're sitting there and youwant to go right down racial
boundaries, which we do, it'sreally easy.
Right, white and black.
Well, only a black guy can geta mlk award.
You got an mlk award and you'rea white dude it was naacp come
(42:54):
on, let's I mean seriously.
I mean again, the media uhportrays that and you go back to
a lot of my good friends wereblack growing up and I didn't
even realize it, but we talkedabout this, but that's an
elephant in the room.
I mean, tell me how that wasfor you, and when you got up
there were you the only whiteguy, or what.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
We were.
They surprised me.
It was their big annual galaand I couldn't come.
I was speaking, it was DrKing's day, and so I was
speaking at another event inanother city and they said, what
if we get you a police escortto be here on time, could you do
it?
And I'm just like, well, youdon't need to do that.
I mean, I'll get there but I'llbe late.
(43:31):
And so I walk in and it's a bigevent, it's a gala, it's
celebrities on the stage.
And I come down and they said,go ahead.
I made sure they knew I wasthere and they told me to sit
down.
I said I'm just sitting thereand just hanging out.
I wasn't dressed for it oranything.
I'm wearing a leather jacket orwhatever.
And they get to that Living theDream Award and they surprised
(43:52):
me.
They said my name and I lookedat it and I was like what?
And it was one of the biggesthonors I've ever had, because I
adore that man.
He changed my life.
I mean, dr King is like I'vegotten to know his daughter, dr
Bernice.
We did a book signing andreleased together at the King
Center.
They carry my book there,endorsed it.
(44:14):
You know, I've gotten to knowI've gotten to know Dr Mahatma
Gandhi's granddaughter.
You know I've done some workwith her.
Ila she's still, she's gettingon in age now.
Mandela's organization, all myheroes I've managed to connect
with.
But but you can imagine thefunny I was on a tour we I mean
we did this crazy tours where wehad a van, a hip-hop crew.
(44:35):
We go from prison to prison tothese shows.
And they had me do blackhistory month.
I think it was in ohio orsomewhere, and so they'd just be
hundreds of thousand inmatesy'all packed in there getting
ready to have this big thing,and they're like the MLK speaker
, you know, for MLK Day, andthen I walk out and it's kind of
like, is he?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
introducing the next dude Right, and you got it.
Let's call it like it is.
You were in this prison andwhen you looked out in that
audience it was diverse, but itwas probably mostly black, right
or Hispanic and probably not asmany.
So when you showed up, you tellyou can't tell me they didn't
sit there and go do what?
What is going on right now?
And I mean you had to convincethem.
So talk about that, because Imean you say you connected with
(45:19):
them, but you're not connectingwith these guys.
You just walked out there andthey're like what in the hell is
going on with this white dude?
So how do you do that?
Tell us how you broke in.
And then you were able to makean impact with your speech and
that it's authentic.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
It's just me going and genuinely starting with
thanking them for saving my lifeand then telling the story and
they're in it's automatic cred.
You know what I'm saying and Ithink that there's.
I used to be afraid to be veryvulnerable on stage and I wish
would have been.
If you said you know what?
Would you go back and tellyourself as a young preacher, be
yourself.
(45:51):
If they can't handle that, thenthat's fine, but let them see
you.
I did that in the prisons and itchanged my life and so it took
them, takes them no time to lookpast the color and say, man,
that's a brother right there.
And I went and actuallyco-pastored the church down in
the Fourth Ward, right by theKing Center.
It was quite an honor right offof Auburn Avenue and I was, you
(46:14):
know, me and my family werelike the token white family in
this congregation and I was anassociate pastor just for a
minute for a couple of years,like nine and ten, something
like that and so I finally Istarted my own thing and I'm
getting ready to fly and they doa big send off for me at the
church and they bring me and mywife and kids up on stage, give
(46:34):
her flowers and balloons andwhatnot.
And then they bring this biggift to me on the stage as a
going away present and um, and Iopen it, it's this big, broad
sword, just this cool, like youknow, braveheart kind of a sword
, which is, and uh, and thenthey made me, they made me an
honorary black man.
wow, black and everything ohcome on it was probably the
(46:56):
second greatest award I've evergot right and double.
As you know, honorary black guy, it's made amazing, awesome and
I hope I don't offend anyviewers I mean shoot I.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
You know I'm saying if you are, that's on you
because, again, I think thatthat's your own personal, uh
perception.
And I think you look back and,man, it's been amazing talking
to the kid and we have weusually do our final four
questions.
We just forget that we got totalk about it.
So so what are you doing nowand how can people help you with
what you're doing?
Speaker 1 (47:22):
yeah, we've got several big things going okay,
so, okay.
So we're in the works right now.
We've got kind of acollaborative group and we're
going to do a documentary seriesand we're going to get cameras
behind the wire in Texas prisonsand they're going to get to see
what I've told you about aboutthese gangsters coming together
and powerful.
At the end of our program wehave a huge presentation, a
(47:46):
celebration.
It's like a, I'll say like thisis a gangster party and, uh, we
give awards, certificates, theymake presentations, music, I
mean it's.
They get rewarded and theycelebrate free world food.
It's amazing, so, prayerfullythat is, that project is going
to get done and we're we'removing ahead with it and we're,
you know, could be netflix mightbe the first stop, but I think
(48:09):
we're going to maybe have someoptions on that.
We're also getting ready toscale our Protect the Dream
program, which has been verykind of local.
I've done it in differentplaces around the country, I do
like the sounds of that.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
That is such a cool thing.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
It's really cool and we start with the student
athlete because they have themost influence.
So at Milton I worked with thefootball team because they have
the most followers right, and weget them to its character and
leadership and positive rolemodeling.
So now I expect you in thehallways.
You take up for the kid that'sbeing bullied, the girl who had
too much drink at the party andshe getting ready to do
(48:42):
something.
The cameras are coming out.
You use your influence to gether out of there and get her
home.
You be a protector.
You've been afforded thispopularity and this influence.
And now with Instagram andTikTok, they've got followers.
Nil deals, come on.
So now's the time to startgetting the ones who have the
influence to protect otherpeople's dreams.
So now, when we do our program,getting ready to do it with
(49:04):
McKeechum football, at the end,when they graduate the program,
we commission them as dreamprotectors in their hallways.
Not just protect your own dream, protect ours, protect his, and
so I'm excited about that.
So we're ready to scale that, Ibelieve.
So people can definitelysupport that.
I also have a program.
(49:24):
I didn't forget about thechurches.
I'm a different kind ofpreacher now, but I've got
another book called 40 Days ofPrayer and that's been on the
road.
I did Estonia and Romania a fewmonths ago.
I did Honduras a couple monthsago, going to Cambodia in
September.
So that's kind of a fun thingwe're doing, um, so yeah, and
(49:49):
it's kit cummingscom or power ofpeace projectcom.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Oh my gosh, you want to talk about uh and Alan.
I know I speak for everybody.
Uh, alan was so jacked uh tohave you come here because, um
and your, uh, your story isamazing.
Um and I, you know you don'twant to hear it, but you got to
hear it from a couple of guyswho've never seen the inside of
a prisoner, totally scared to go.
But if you tell me I got to go,I will go with you, man,
because you're right.
(50:13):
After listening to you, brother, I can do whatever I can do to
help.
I want to help and I just lovewhat you're talking about.
The protector of the dream,protector of this, best ones
we've ever done, alan, it'ssuper powerful, I love it.
(50:34):
Thank you, hey guys, if youlearned something, shame on you.
That's my catholic guilt comingon you right now.
Shame on you.
No, you did learn something.
Go out there, make it a big day, get up there, make it up that
mountaintop.
Protect that dream dream andkeep giving back.
Let's go.
Cheers everybody.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Small Business
Safari.
Remember, your positiveattitude will help you achieve
(50:57):
that higher altitude you'relooking for in a wild world of
small business ownership.
And until next time, make it agreat day.
don't think there haven't been tests.
I mean, I got trapped in a vanin Tijuana that I thought was a
taxi and it wasn't.
It was coyotes hustlers thatcould have sold me.
I had to talk my way out ofthat van.
I credit all those brothersbehind the wire.
I'd spent so much time withthem that I knew how to talk to
somebody and reason with themlike here's why you can't let me
go.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help
guide you to avoid those traps,pitfalls and dangers that lurk
when navigating the wild worldof small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
(00:41):
and professional goals.
So strap in adventure team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
That's right, everybody.
It's time.
Roll up those windows, get thatdrive on.
(01:02):
Keep your eyes on the road,though man.
Don't be looking down andtrying to figure out a
fast-forward to the podcast.
Don't be figuring out otherstuff.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Are you talking to yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Don't be trying to multitask.
Look at Instagram, facebook andlisten to our podcast.
Do not put your knee on thewheel and then lean over and
start writing on the other sideof the door while you're doing
all that too.
Don't do any of that.
Don't be like chris.
Don't do as I do, do as I say,especially in this great city of
atlanta, where there is nothingbut the t word traffic.
(01:32):
That is everywhere, brother.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh my lord, it has been so badly and it's not just
slow, it's predatory, it's, it'shorrible, and if you're looking
like mad max, fury road yep,100 it is is eat or be eaten.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I saw a hubcap come flying across six lanes of 285
and not one person swerved andit hit one and just burst into a
million pieces.
I'm like, well, at least it wasplastic.
So you got that going for you.
And a little bit, a little bitlater you keep driving, you keep
driving and then you see thatwhen you don't you ever laugh,
when you look in the interior onthe median and you see like a
bumper and then another bumperand then another bumper, you're
(02:09):
like, oh, that was a bad one,yeah and nobody came by to pick
up the bumpers?
huh, not yet.
Nah, why too much work, oh boy.
So let's talk about the cursesof humanity and how bad people
can be I.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I don't like how you're doing this one.
No, I could just tell you rightnow.
I knew this.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, you know, Because that's the worst I've
ever been in is traffic court.
Literally the worst thing I'veever been in in my life when it
comes to the prison system istraffic court.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'd say you consider yourself lucky, huh, Chris.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I consider myself very lucky that I've never had
to see the inside of a realcourtroom in a real setting,
other than being a juror, and Idefinitely have not been inside
a prison, even though I did growup in a prison city in michigan
, jackson.
We were the prison city andevery time we'd show up we'd be
like, oh, it's those guys fromthe prison city, so you had a
reputation that you didn'tdeserve I don't.
I try to live up to it, though Itried.
(03:02):
I mean, if you watched me playbasketball, it was a full
contact sport for me, man.
But today we've got somebodythat Alan and I are really
excited to have a chance tointerview and talk with you guys
.
It's a little bit differentthan what we normally talk about
, but it is going to tie backinto business lessons, but we're
going to get a whole lot oflife lessons and about how
(03:24):
giving back and making thingsright with people is.
This is going to be fun.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, you know normally how we kind of have fun
with the fact that all of ourguests are better looking, they
have better hair, they've madebetter decisions, they make more
money, and then once in a whilewe feel extra bad because you
take all those things the hair,the money, the decisions and
then they give back to theircommunity a little bit in one
way or another, or their bookwas a bestseller and today we've
(03:49):
got all of that Plus.
I mean there's just a nobilityto what this guy has done that
I'm thankful there's people likehim on this planet.
I couldn't do what he's doing,nope, and uh, you know it's an
honor to have you here yep.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
So who is he?
He is kit cummings.
He is the founder of power ofpeace project popp bold mission
to bring hope, healing andtransformation to some of the
most dangerous and dividedspaces in the world.
Uh, kit is not just uh, goingto tell us about what he's done,
how he started, but he'sactually another thing that here
is kind of odd, kind of aunicorn.
(04:28):
He's a native to Atlanta, bornand raised in Marietta, or, as
people like to say, as I foundout, mayretta, mayretta.
There's no I in it.
So, kit, welcome to the show.
Man Can't wait to talk to you alittle bit more.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Thank you.
Thank you, guys for having meI've been looking forward to it
and congratulations on thesuccess of your podcast.
I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Oh, that's awesome.
The honor's ours man.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, so let's go back.
So you graduated from highschool.
You said I did a little time incollege.
Graduated from Georgia.
Go dogs.
Yes, sir, Two-time nationalchampions.
I like that.
We're still holding on to thatbecause it was two in a row, but
don't worry.
So you got out and then whatwas your calling?
What was your mission?
What did you go off and startoff doing?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Man, I have no clue.
I just didn't want to get outof Georgia.
I mean, there was no reason towant to leave.
Have you guys been in Athensbefore?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, I had two kids, that no.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I was that guy.
I'll tell you the day and age.
It was way before HopeScholarship days.
I got into the Terry School ofBusiness with a 2.9.
And that is a fact.
It was like my son had to go toGeorgia State.
First he had a 4.something Ididn't even know there was over
4.
Now you got all these freakingkids brilliant.
(05:47):
But anyway he had to take aminute just because of the hope.
So I was back in those days inGeorgia but I still got that
diploma and it's still GeorgiaBack in the day we got hated on.
But anyway I took my time goingthrough Athens and I got out
and got into the music business.
You know, I mean just because Ihad a friend whose dad was like
a big wig in those days and so Iwas like in rock and roll for a
(06:09):
minute and then I just had ahuge change in my life.
I always tell people I say,like you know what's your story?
I'm the wildest guy ever tobecome a preacher.
So it's like nobody saw thatcoming.
Nobody saw me coming up likethat young man's cut out for
ministry I.
So it's like nobody saw thatcoming.
Nobody saw me coming up likethat young man's cut out for
ministry.
I was the other guy and justwild.
(06:29):
I mean, I come from an honest,you know my family line.
This is what it is thirsty andyou know, just went through a
lot of drama growing up.
I was a good athlete andpopular, you know.
School came pretty easy for me.
I was a good part of town, butI still found trouble.
Just a knucklehead and um, andso, you know, by the time I got
(06:50):
out of college I was, I wasready to roll, but at 25 I just
was out of gas, and so that'swhen I had my first major kind
of life-changing moment so let'stalk about that life-changing
moment Not what it was, but thetrigger.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And then what set you on that path to become a
minister, and how did you evenknow how to become a minister?
Speaker 3 (07:11):
You don't want to know what the life-changing
moment was.
I mean, come on you did adramatic pause.
That's where you go tocommercial, all right, and then
you come back.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, I'm not really sure I'm ready for that yet, man
, because I know where you'vebeen preaching and I know what
you've seen and I'm like, oh myGod, I'm worried.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You can't handle the truth I can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You're right, I'm weak.
All right, go ahead, hit mewhat happened.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
No living had caught up with me and I was trying to
quit as a young man and I was acouple months in trying to get
sober and I met a guy whochanged my life.
I was playing basketball, whichis one of my things, and one of
the guys on the court he justhad a shine about him.
He was different and he wasn'treligious.
He was just different to thepoint where I was like I went to
him after one of the games andI said what is your deal, man?
He's like what's up?
And I said what do you do?
(08:08):
He said I'm a minister and Iwas like I've never seen one
like you, but I'd never been inmany churches.
I wasn't that guy and I startedhanging out with him and I just
changed me and he put me on astage just at a regular worship
service it's not like I was paidto be there or anything and he
gave me a part and I got up andit was a pretty large audience
and something happened inside ofme, something turned on and I
(08:31):
was like man, I don't know whatthat was, but I want to do that
again.
And everybody in the audiencewas like I'd like for him to do
that again, and so it was just amagical moment, and that was
1990, you'd never done anypublic speaking before that,
nope, I didn't even like it.
I mean, I didn't.
I was, you know, like everybody.
It's like one of the secondgreatest fears or the first.
(08:52):
It's ahead of dying, I think,and I was like everybody else,
but I don't know.
Magic happened and I sat downand said man, I want to do this.
And, um, one thing led toanother and I did that.
The way that I did everythingelse in my life good, bad,
whatever I got one speed andit's all out.
So I'm either trying to savethe world or tear it up is one
(09:12):
of the others.
So I went that way and itturned out I had a gift and I
didn't know I had it.
It was hiding and it came out.
And then I rode that ride for15 years and led some large
churches.
By the time I was in my midthirties, I was co-leading a
church of about 5,000 people.
It was heavy, and then thatkind of led me toward the next
dramatic change Pause, pausecommercial.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Commercial time.
No, I got to go back.
So I think one of the thingsthat's very common and we've
heard this quite a bit is thatsometimes we talk to people
who've started their ownbusiness and they didn't pick
their business intentionally.
The business picked them,whether it be a mentor that said
, no, you just need to go dothis, or, hey, you're laid off.
Now you better go findsomething.
And they found somethingthrough franchising.
(09:56):
And in your case, you sawsomebody who was different and
you saw enough in that person toactually reach out to him and
he saw enough in you to helpmentor people and he gave back.
He actually gave back and said,look, follow this and see if
this is going to be your way.
And, by the way, I'm going to,I'm going to put you up there
and make it happen.
And next thing, you know ithappened, the spark happened.
So that's I think that's agreat lesson for a lot of us is
(10:18):
that when you get to thesepositions where we're doing the
podcast, why are we doing it?
And we talked about this topeople and I'm like I wish I
would have had this when Istarted my business, because I
didn't know who to talk to.
Yeah, I was trying to network,quote unquote.
But you know what, if I wouldhave had this podcast and I
would have been able to drivearound and just listen to a few
things go oh man, don't makethat stupid mistake.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, it's interesting.
He had to take the step, though.
He had to take the step.
He saw something in this guyand he went and asked him what
his deal was, and then the guyends up giving him an
opportunity to be on stage andinstead of saying no, he said
I'll do it.
So you have to have the guts tojust take that leap, ask the
right questions.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
so there's a little something in you that you know
is pushing you in the rightdirection.
It's a common theme.
I'm glad you said that becauseI'm a yes guy.
I mean to a fault I was thatguy.
I mean, growing up I was thekid.
It's like somebody said I betyou wouldn't do that.
I said, watch me do this and Ijust I will take advantage of
every moment and I'll do thecrazy thing.
And that did not serve me verywell for a long time and then it
(11:21):
did, because now it's a way oflife.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It's like, yeah, let me do that.
Yeah, because some of thethings on your bio I'm like I
wouldn't say yes to that, I know.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Oh no, there's.
Yeah, we haven't gotten thatone.
So back to our next dramaticpause coming out of commercial
break.
But we've got a lot ofcommercials on this show, we're
going to have one.
So next dramatic pause, you'releading a church 5,000.
Like you said, you saidsomething that was very key is
that it's very heavy.
The weight of the flock is onyou, right, and then having to
do all the things you had to do,plus be that great preacher and
(11:53):
be somebody that people lookedup to and wanted to come here,
it gets heavy.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It does.
You live in a fishbowl whereeverywhere you go it's like
they're watching.
You know I'm saying you're onstage.
Um, a reputation you knowperhaps you can't live up to.
You know, preachers are put ona pedestal and it's just people,
yeah, flawed, broken people.
In this particular preacher, awounded healer, right, I mean,
(12:19):
because I'm the guy that wasbroken and then came to faith.
I didn't grow up that way andso, you know, unfortunately,
kind of the old me, they kind ofcame back and so over those
last years of ministry marriedtwo beautiful kids, you know,
adoring congregation, greatreputation.
Behind the I was slipping, thedrinking came back, I just
(12:43):
started slipping and that kindof drew me away from some of the
brothers I was very close to.
Because in that line of work,if you're in the spotlight,
leading a lot of people, got abig staff, you better have some
brothers close to you.
That know you know you.
You know what I'm saying,because we're just men.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
And we're a decision away from doing something stupid
.
And um, I didn't.
It's like we talk about inbusiness.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
You got to have that board of directors and somebody
will tell you no, yes, yes, yesyes, and you see that a lot in
this particular field.
You see someone get to thatprominent place and then it's a
cautionary tale, you know,because they didn't have
anybody's life and and I kind ofgot to that point and I lost my
heart and I walked away from it.
They didn't ask me to leave,they asked me to stay.
When I said I ain't got itanymore, I got to go and so I
(13:30):
resigned, walked away and I justshoot that nature from the past
that I thought was washed away,that joke I've been doing,
doing pushups in the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Did you feel like you were running that double life?
You know you the imposter, youknow you got up there on a
Sunday and you you give thisthing and people are like, oh,
oh, pastor Cummings, that wasjust amazing.
And then you go hide away andgo.
You have no idea how bad I amright now.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, yeah, it was definitely that.
It was a struggle, meaning Iwas in the battle.
I never just said bump it andgave up and became the double
life guy.
It wasn't that, it was justslipping at night having a
couple of glasses of wine andthen bigger glasses and then
stupid rules that alcoholics doLike not every day.
(14:17):
So I wouldn't drink on Sundayno more than two.
Two.
So I just get bigger and biggerglasses.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
It's like get a box wine so that your spouse can't
tell how much you're drinking.
You know what I'm saying?
This is that whole ask meanything part, yeah and uh, and
just playing those exhaustinggames.
And so it wasn't like I was outat a hotel the night before,
you know, no, I was home, but Ibut I was just wounding my
conscience and my soul.
And then I was pointed out.
(14:44):
Man, I was always preachingpassionately, authentically.
I wasn't playing a game, but Iwas just hurting inside and
nobody really knew it and mymarriage was on the rocks and I
thought it was better than itwas.
When you're in that kind ofrole, you're insulated because
you've got elders and deaconsand staff and you know what I'm
saying fellow preachers andthings, and people come to you
(15:05):
to find out about marriage youknow what I'm saying or about
raising kids, and it was just ithad grown cold and so when I
stepped out of the ministry andI didn't have that support
around me, I just flames andjust went off and ended up going
through a divorce.
My fall from grace was publicand um, which was very, very
hard for me, and a lot of peopleknow me in this town even if I
(15:27):
hadn't been in a public positionfor all those years.
I know a lot of people anyway,and so then it was like talk of
the town.
You know at least people thatknew me.
Man, you're my kid, you knowcrashing cars and hanging out
strip joints, it was like that.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
so so it was definitely the fall from grace,
the angel fall from grace.
And then you said in the publicfashion um you that that
struggle.
You said how old were your kidsat that point?
Six and nine what was hurtingworse the kids or the public
persona, what you thought peoplewere thinking about you?
What, which of those two wasworse?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I, I don't know man, I was really connected to my
kids.
I wasn't absent, but you know,the wounds would show up later
with the kids, which is oftenthe case with divorce and also
with your being a preacher's kid.
You've heard of that before PKs.
There's a, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I might know one.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Alan.
There we go All his life.
His dad was a preacher andthere's a pressure that comes
with that, right yep, andeverybody's trying oh, you're
supposed to be something, and alot of times you go the other
way.
Yep, um.
So anyway, I think that that'sprobably the answer to that
question.
But, um, luckily it was.
It was a year, it was 2004, andit was a reckless year, man, I
(16:37):
mean.
I mean I shook my fist at Godand I cursed him and I said I
don't want nothing to do withyou anymore.
This is what I get after allthis.
And I was mad at everybody butme, but really I was mad at me.
But I swore him off and I saidleave me alone.
And I went on a run and I meanI'm talking about dark, reckless
(16:57):
, like serial drunk driver justout there on the streets.
I mean hurting so bad and justtrying to stop the pain.
I'm really getting to the pointwhere I don't know if I even
want to be here anymore likethat, after I had had it all.
You know, I mean, what do youdo when you, when you realize
your dreams?
You know what I'm saying andyou're doing what you were put
on.
I knew I was doing what I wasborn to do and I squandered it.
(17:18):
And so I think all that shamejust caved in on me and I just
tried to numb it and I got tothe point where I was just
hopeless and when you look backand I know obviously this
story's got another arc to it.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
It's coming, yeah.
Yeah, you hit bottom andbounced up, but if you could go
back and talk to yourself whenyou were in that position, could
you have talked yourself out ofthis before you?
I mean, you know what.
What could you have donedifferently?
Or did you need to go throughthis to get to where you are now
(17:49):
?
Gosh?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I mean great question , because if I went back and had
that talk with myself and it'slike just just be honest to you
know, just be real when you'rehurting, find somebody, talk to
somebody, go get.
Just be honest to you know,just be real when you're hurting
, find somebody, talk tosomebody, go get the help you
need, whatever it is Um, butthen my story wouldn't be what
it is.
I mean, if I, if you don't gothrough what you got to go
through, there's no way I'mdoing what I'm doing today,
(18:11):
which I can't.
I love it so much I'll die forit.
Like you got to kill me to stopme from doing what I'm doing.
There is no plan b, there's noway to get me there without all
the drama that makes sense?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
yeah, it does, you know.
I think, uh, that's anothergreat business lesson for a lot
of us.
Um, where do you learn the mostyour failures?
Yeah, we know, we've learned alot, we, we are so smart, we.
You know what the reason westarted this podcast, alan?
Because, guys, we are thesmartest listen.
You've listened.
Go back and listen to some ofthese podcasts.
I have failed spectacularly inmany different ways, and Alan
(18:42):
has as well, and he knows that.
But failing like you did there,and I asked that question the
public pressure or the kids andyou kind of didn't answer but it
sounds like it was you.
The biggest part was it was allpressure and that's one of the
things I know.
You do a lot of coaching withkids, but you remember that from
sports and that is, pressurecomes from within, not from
outside.
You let outside pressure, butyou all internalize it and it
(19:05):
becomes your pressure and yougot to be able to release that,
get that out there so you can doyour thing.
So that pressure pushed you into this.
So now, what, when?
What was this next definingmoment that moved you?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
up.
Well, and it is.
I mean, it's a forged by firestory.
I'm excited to hear the rest ofit.
But when you were talking aboutearlier, even just when you
became it's interesting howpreachers are held to a higher
standard and you came from kindof a wild youth and yet if you
didn't have that wild youth, youwouldn't be able to connect
with people that you'repreaching to.
That's so true, to connect withpeople that you're preaching to
(19:38):
, and they know that piece andso they respect you for it.
But now they're holding you tothis higher standard.
It's kind of an interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It's an interesting lens and I think I was already
set up for that.
The adult child of an alcoholicalready feels uncomfortable in
their own skin, already has thatimposter syndrome going on.
It's like if people only knew Imean, that was way before I
ever got to the stage.
You know I had that going on'slike if people only knew, I mean
that was way before I ever gotto the stage.
You know I had that going on.
So then I just confirmed it allyou know, when I fell.
It's like all right and so allright.
(20:07):
Well, what's wrong with you nowall?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
right the the crashed yeah, literally.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
so I'm, oh, I'm, I'm in a club and I got to the point
where I don't care if anybodyrecognized me anymore and, um
yeah, I'm down certain part ofAtlanta.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I'm picturing bad Santa.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Oh, definitely bad.
Santa man, you've ever watchedthat movie?
No, I.
And he says a certain part ofAtlanta and I think I, I think I
can picture, I know I canpicture that place.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Don't get off of it I .
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Don't get off of it.
I know that road For yourlisteners in Portland.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Portland doesn't know this one.
Tasmania doesn't know this.
Do you, troy?
No, you don't.
All right.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So, anyway, I come staggering out of that place at
2.30 in the morning because thelights came on and you had to
leave and I poured myself intomy car and I stayed heading up
Beaufort Highway, headingtowards Suwannee where we lived
at the time.
This would be the last night Iever stayed in my house and, um,
I just didn't quite make it.
I got a mile away and then Ijust passed out and car kind of
(21:08):
swerved to the right, boom, hitthis like embankment with a
guardrail, which if it wasn'tthere I'm not here, bro.
I mean, it's like I literallypassed out at just the right
time.
If it was a second later I'mprobably done.
And so I'm busted up a littlebit and I'm on the road.
It's 3 o'clock in the morningand I'm confused and a cop car
pulls up and I'm like, oh no, Idon't remember it much.
(21:29):
Well, he takes my license andthen he does this I've never
heard of this before.
He goes and he doesn't cuff meand he puts me in the front seat
of the squad car.
Like I've been in police carsbefore, I didn't know there was
a front seat.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah right, and I'm not cuffed up and I pass out in
the front seat right by thecomputer.
It's like I don't know if theyhad them back then, but it's
been a minute.
And then we drive away and thenext thing I know, this cop's
gently waking me up and I'm atmy house and he lets me go.
He doesn't even write me aticket, calls a tow truck for my
car.
Next day I get a call we gotyour car.
(22:05):
I don't know what happened.
So I mean I preach this now Alot of times- like in prisons,
like there's an angel in a copuniform.
Even more.
I'm like I met the devil in aStrip Club and an angel drove me
home that night Becausesomething was said that night.
Somebody looked at me and saidsomething to me.
It shook me and so that was thebeginning of my awakening.
(22:27):
Like bro, straighten up, orthis ain't going to end well,
you about to run out of gracehere.
And I went and got some help,got sober in 2005.
And then the dramatic.
I prayed a prayer.
Prayer made a promise thatchanged my life, and Whoever
people pray to, whatever youbelieve your faith, tradition or
whoever believe you created allthis.
(22:48):
I was talking to that, thatcreator, and I said, if you ever
let me preach the word again,I'll go to the ones that nobody
wants to go to, the hated,feared, forgotten, the hungry,
thirsty, naked, stranger, sickprisoner.
The least of these is what themaster called them.
I said I'll go to them becauseI'm like no church can have me
anymore.
It's not like people areputting one ads out.
(23:08):
You know, wanted drunken,fallen preachers.
That ship had sailed, and so Ifelt like he was saying I got
you.
And so I did that in 2005.
I prayed that prayer in 2008.
That's how long it took to cometo fruition.
He brings a kid back into mylife that I mentored when he was
(23:28):
12 or 13 years old, and nowhe's all grown up.
At this point, 10 years later,mom calls me.
He's gang-related murder charge, potential death penalty.
Ms-13 leader, if you've heardof that.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, bad news Terrorist now Bad news.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So he was that guy.
He was hated, feared, he wasforgotten, he was dangerous.
And they said and his momwanted me to work with him.
And the authorities told medon't mess with him, he's a
dangerous man, he's a killer.
And I said you don't know himlike I know him.
I knew him before the streetsgot him and so I worked with him
for two years.
I felt like God was sayingthat's your church.
Now I have one guy, one kid.
(24:02):
Save his life and he saved mine.
We saved each other's life.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And he's in jail at this point.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
He walked out this past year.
Next week I'm going to see hisface for the first time in 20
years.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
In 20 years.
So when you talked to him,though, it was behind the in the
prison, going to jail and goingto talk to him, and and so when
you first met him there's noway he just went oh hey, kit,
you're here.
Yeah, you're right, I'm wrong.
Um, yep, let god back in myheart.
No way, uh, no, it changed me.
No, that didn't happen.
It doesn't.
It's not just not that easy.
People want to think it's likethat.
Right, you have theseepiphanies you had your crash
(24:36):
and your angel took you home,but you, you just said, right
there, it took you three years.
It wasn't easy.
It's a grind, just like runninga business, just like life I
mean life you've got to havehabits.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
But the kid kept meeting with you, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Every week.
Two years he became ahigh-profile witness.
He cooperated with the feds,made a deal, which is what got
the death penalty and the lifesentence off the board, and I
testified for him in the opencourtroom.
Ms-13 sent me a threat.
I mean it was real Like I had acop car in my cul-de-sac
because there was an activethreat.
I mean I dove in.
(25:11):
I was like I'm all in, you know, and I think that was the
turning point for me.
I've been afraid of stuff allmy life.
Now I was always the guy whowould do anything, but there was
this fear and I faced it.
I'd already collapsed, I'dalready lost everything.
You know what I'm saying.
And so I was just like why not?
And that set me up.
Two years working with him, itset me up.
(25:31):
And then I was invited by aprison ministry to go into
georgia's most violent prison.
I didn't know any better.
I'm like I've never done it.
I was like, yeah, let's go.
And when I walked in therewhich is what prison?
Hayes, hayes State Prison, moreactive gang members than any
prison in the state it's just onfire.
But I had been working withLuis the whole time and I'm like
(25:51):
I ain't shoot out now.
That changed my life, give mesome more.
And so I went in there andstarted making friends and I
tried an experiment, changed my.
That prison went from worst tofirst.
We started a peace movement.
It caught on the heaviestgangsters in the whole system
started calling different shotsand it put me on the map and
I've been to over 100 prisonsnow.
I mean it's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
All right, so you go into these prisons.
I mean they shake you down, yougo in there.
I mean you said no fear, Comeon, man, there's a little fear,
right?
I mean a little, Is there any?
I mean seriously, dude.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I'm, afraid right here.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I know, I'm afraid, I'm afraid that we're putting
this out there and people are.
You can pick it up in theprisons.
Hey man, I'm telling you guys,you want to start a business,
small business safari?
I wouldn't do it, no.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I wouldn't have the guts.
I can't explain it or takecredit for it, and I certainly
don't encourage it.
But fear has not been a part ofmy game, it's excitement.
Mexican prisons are one of myfavorite things.
Which are notorious in themovies and everything, and there
(26:59):
are everything and that andmore.
And the first time I got to go,I just couldn't wait for it to
come.
It's a week away, I can't wait.
And walking through the gate, Idon't know what it is, other
than just I kind of am supposedto do this, and I think it's
that that the brothers on theinside really respect One.
I go in there vulnerably and Isay man, you saved my life.
(27:20):
And they're like we don't evenknow you, dude, or through a
translator, and I say, no, butyou changed my life.
And I tell them the story.
The drunken, fallen preacherthat came back through a bunch
of gangsters convicts and theylove it because it's vulnerable.
I'm not some do-good preachertrying to save them.
I'm like no, bro, save me.
I'm not trying to bring God toyou, I'm looking for God in you.
I need you.
(27:40):
And immediately, boom, it's on.
And I start telling them thestory and I start teaching my
principles and they stand up.
They're stand-up guys.
Their whole world is respect,integrity and loyalty Three
things that I should havelearned in the ministry and I
did not.
Respect, shoot.
I mean, if we disrespect eachother, we might not be friends.
If I disrespect somebody.
(28:01):
In there I got a problem andout here in the free world, if I
tell you I'm going to besomewhere and I miss it sorry
bro you'll forgive me and inviteme back.
Maybe in there it don't worklike that Loyalty if I say I got
you and then when things godown I'm not there for you.
I got a problem and so I had tolearn those key things respect,
(28:25):
integrity, loyalty behind thatrazor wire and they taught me
well and it has served meeverywhere I go.
So I can look at a killer nowand he sees me and I see him
because I've been around them.
And I don't say killer, like Imean there are so many brothers
in there that are more noblementhan me, honorable, honest,
faithful, righteous.
I mean that that I'm not sayingit, but there's.
There's a code behind that wirethat they taught me.
That has made me a better manand that's why I can't quit, you
(28:47):
know go well.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Wow, I mean, it's just, let's go back let's go
back.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
You said his name, luis.
What?
What was it that he did for youin those three years?
He?
Needed me and you needed to beneeded.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You need to be able to preach be able to talk to
somebody one-to-one and feelneeded again I needed a purpose.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You know what I'm saying.
I needed to be needed, I neededto be the guy.
I told God I ain't going totalk to you anymore, I'm going
to read your book, I'm not goingto go see your people, and all
of a sudden I'm in front of Luisand I'm like studying the Bible
with him and praying with himand I'm trying to help him.
He's teaching me everythingabout the gang life that
civilians don't get to know, andso he educated me.
(29:31):
I needed that.
I educated him, I told him, butit was cathartic and every time
I would go into a prison.
And today, every time I do it,it's cathartic, bro.
It's like all the shame thathas been inside of me is just
released because I can talk tothese men about stuff I can't
talk about on this podcast and Icertainly can't talk about from
a pulpit.
But I I shared my deepest,darkest and they laughed and
(29:54):
they cheered.
It's like, oh, because they hadnever seen a preacher like me.
Right, he's like he's messed up.
You know, I'm saying, and Ibecame a made man and now I'm a
protected man, so I don't got tobe afraid in there anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'm very protected but sure, now, yeah, now, I mean
now, brother, uh, I'm still notwalking in there with you.
Well, actually, if you inviteme, I will, because change your
life, yeah, I will.
I will with you only because,uh, you man, this has been very
powerful.
You get what's going down ifyou're listening to this,
because you can translate backto your life, all over the place
(30:26):
, some of the worst people inyour life.
If you really dial it downwhere you think they are respect
, loyalty and integrity.
You know what and you thinkabout that.
He said behind the wire,there's more of that than there
might be outside.
And I'm like, after all thoseyears in corporate America, yeah
100%.
That's a big fuck, yeah, yeahyeah.
(30:51):
Oh, we can go there.
Oh, yeah, that's three of themright there, man, I'm like, I'm
like no, no and no, I'm like, oh, my god, they're like oh, for
three.
And I went, oh, but you evensaid oh, you're late, okay,
that's okay, hey, um, well, youdid me dirty on that one and
okay, well, we'll give you overon that one.
But I see it now, and now it'slike no, no, you've got to have
those rules, and those rules getreally hard when you're in a
(31:12):
place where it's unfortunate andyou're tested.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Um, don't think there haven't been tests.
I mean I, I got trapped in avan in tijuana that I thought
was a taxi and it wasn't.
It was coyotes hustlers thatcould have sold me.
I had to talk my way out ofthat van.
I credit all those brothersbehind the.
I'd spent so much time withthem that I knew how to talk to
somebody and reason with themLike, here's why you gotta let
me go.
I mean they served me, you know.
(31:35):
I mean there's been time.
I mean there've been threats.
You know, tell the white boy towatch his back.
That went out through out hazeand I knew I was in trouble.
I messed with somebody's moneyor something and the brothers
rose up and it it taught me somany things.
It's like face your fear, walkback in, you know.
I'm saying you got to, becausewhat are you going to do if you
don't walk back in?
Then who are you?
I promised, I promised them, Ipromised him, I promised myself
(32:00):
I can go.
Quit this the first thing in mylife I've never quit beside my
second marriage and I'm in lovemy wife.
But do you see how it all goesback to them?
Their code, and so now, don'tget a twisted.
I always have to say thisbecause there are beautiful,
beautiful people listening thisshow that are probably really
struggling with me right now,because I'm serving those who
(32:21):
have done horrible Things thatcan never be taken back, and to
them I say god bless you, I getit, but every man that I can
change in there maybe doesn'tget out come and hurt your
daughter or come to yourneighborhood, right, you know
what I'm saying.
So it is public safety, but Ihave to say it gently because
I'm working with some very toughpeople you said uh, hayes went
(32:43):
from worst to first.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
What did?
Did that mean?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
It was daily stabbings, I mean weekly
violence, riots, craziness, justlike on fire.
And I think that, again, godput me in the right place at the
right time.
There's 12 of us.
I was working with these dudes.
It was like a faith program,but they all were connected
Crips, bloods, gangsterDisciples.
Were they the leaders of thosegroups?
(33:07):
They were high enough.
I had a couple of heavy guys inthere and we just started
dreaming.
I was trying to recreate myself.
I mean I needed something newand I'm like what would it take
to bring peace to this prison?
And everybody laughed and saidthis prison will never have
peace here.
And I said but if it was, whatwould we do?
We started talking about Kingand Gandhi and Mandela and
(33:27):
Malcolm and these greatnonviolent peacemakers, and we
started talking about them andhow peace is more powerful than
violence.
And I would challenge them.
I'd say, like you got two gangleaders.
One of them can order a crew togo and wet a guy up.
The other one has so much powerhe can say there ain't going to
be no violence right now for 40days in a row.
(33:48):
It's off which one has morepower and the brothers would
have to go.
The dude that can bring thepeace.
So which is more powerful?
Peace?
How about if I give you a newkind of power?
What if I help give you a wayto stand down without losing
respect?
And I mean respect's everything.
They'll die for it, they'llkill for it.
(34:10):
And they, they stood up and itgot to be world.
Two or three of the real heavyguys said all right, if you do
it, I'll do it.
But if you, you know, if it wasvery fragile in the beginning
and I started getting they, letme get.
With 15 heavy guys in the prison, we started negotiating peace
before things would happen.
I mean, here's what my meetingslook like.
I mean sitting there.
All right, bro, how's it?
You know we're in a smallchapel, no keys in the room, no
officers.
I don't know why they did that,but they did.
(34:32):
And these are rivals, bro.
And one brother puts his hand upand said this week in C1,
brother was tied up in a sheet,set on fire and thrown off the
tier.
What are we going to do aboutthat?
You know, we got to get backand I'd have to open it up to
the guys and say what are wegoing to do about it?
We'd have to talk about it,negotiate Well, we'll do this,
but we're not going to do this.
Blah, blah, blah.
And we started putting downbeasts before they ever even
(34:55):
happened and the warden didn'teven know how we were doing it.
Peace just started to come andthen the daggum place got so
peaceful that they thought thewalkie won't work and the
brothers started pouring out.
Until we had this movement onfridays.
It was a hundred guys in a roomand they're all gangsters and
man.
It was cool that that they werebecoming the change.
And then they won that awardand, uh, you know, michigan
(35:20):
changed my life.
Next place I went muskegon,michigan.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Um, whether it's not where I was, jackson three
prisons right there together andtwo years.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
we did the program over and over Over 1,000 guys
went through it.
Violence dropped 50% in twoyears.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
All right.
So you started this movement.
You did this.
You're not going back to Haysright now because you've been
able to set that program and soyou've been going to other
places, not only here in the US,but you've already mentioned
Mexico.
So how did you get that wordout?
And you started to grow thisthing and and oh, by the way,
you still have to live and eat,and so you're.
Are you making money doing thisthing?
I mean, I mean not to go downto it, but at the end of the day
(35:55):
, you still got to eat.
Yeah, so is this a business?
Is this how to go?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, it was.
It was crazy because trying toconvince my new wife that this
is how I'm going to make aliving and trying to go out, I
started my nonprofit in 2011,.
But trying to raise money tohelp the people that I'm trying
to help, you know, it eventuallyevolved into a youth movement
which people are way behind.
You know what I'm saying.
So, yes, it's my only, but Imean you mentioned small
business.
Startups or small businessowners are trying to make it
(36:23):
through whatever a pandemic or arecession, or just a life storm
, whatever it's like.
I always had a plan B and thisis the first time I never had a
plan B.
It's just I've got to make it.
I've got to.
I got no choice and I just dowhat I got to do.
But how did I get it out there?
I just started riding withother people that were already
going in.
So I hooked up with anotherpreacher in a group that was
(36:43):
going and doing Mexican prisons.
I said let me come and I'd ridein with them and then I'd
establish my own reputation andthen they'd have me come back.
I mean, I danced with Zuluwarriors in South African
prisons and went into Ukrainianprisons and Honduran prisons,
which are the craziest ones inthe world.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Really, and the message, the same message,
resonates around the world.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I had one of my books translated into Spanish, had an
interpreter named Jesus and gotin front of 50 guys, most of
them probably cartels, in acrazy prison at Tijuana, mexico,
and dadgummit.
If they didn't light up, theyjust like somebody to believe in
them, somebody to look forlight in them, when all they are
is feared, you know and hate it.
It's like you go in there and,authentically, don't fear them.
(37:25):
And plus, I trust them rightoff the jump.
I tell them, I, off the jump, Itell them I'm going to respect
you and I'm going to trust youwith my life.
I don't even know you yet, butI'm going to trust you with my
life.
I'm going to see if you'retrustworthy and something
happens and it just spread.
And then finally it tipped andI started getting invited to
(37:46):
prisons.
That would hear about it, right.
And then when I was in thoseprisons, there's always schools
in those communities and thoselittle towns, the prisons
usually the biggest employer intown.
So the word spreads quick who'sthis dude?
And and they had me come andspeak at the schools and the
kids were just, you know, tightbecause it was gangster.
You know they're in a gangsterculture, I don't care if you're
up here in Johns Creek or downin Carver, downtown Atlanta.
(38:10):
Gangster is cool with kids,right.
So that was the bridge I'm like.
I started telling them abouthow the power of peace in the
prisons and then we startedgoing towards homicide,
incarceration, crime, gangviolence, all that and the tough
underserved communities.
But up here in Johns Creek I'vedone my program in Milton.
They gave me a statechampionship ring, the first one
in 18, the first one they won.
(38:32):
Well, we might not be losingkids to incarceration and
homicide and gangs, but whatabout date rape and suicide and
overdose?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
accidental death.
And so, to put this in contextfor a lot of folks who aren't
familiar with Atlanta, of coursewe're Atlanta based for a lot
of us, but he's talking aboutwhite suburbia and let's call it
like it is.
He's talking about thedifference between Atlanta,
which is a very heavy blackcommunity in town, atlanta, but
he's talking about whitesuburbia.
So when he went out there,everybody's thinking, oh well,
(39:01):
these guys are all perfect,there's nothing going on, and
it's like, yeah, chris, alreadyshaking his head.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Everybody's got their demons.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Oh, they've all got demons and losing kids and a lot
of suicide, yep Suicides andthe drugs and the access to
drugs that kids have across theboard.
So that's your ministry.
You're doing juveniles, you'reworking with the.
So how I get back to this whois paying for this?
Is this our people?
Are you?
Speaker 3 (39:26):
going to foundation.
I just can't.
Chris wants to know if you havea boat.
Ah, you better have a boat.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
No, oh well all right he knows people with big boats.
He gets to go on the big TTByacht.
Then what do you say?
Foot pontoon boat?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
But anyway, you know you figure it out.
There's I've got donors thathave resources, that love and
support what we're doing.
You know little grants here andthere.
Um, you know I speak, sellbooks and do a lot of different
things.
So there's, your books makemoney, yeah, speaking more than
my book.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
There we go, now we're talking because, uh, my
darling wife just got donetelling somebody who wanted to
write a book.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
She said we better talk to chris first, because uh,
it's gonna cost you more thanit's gonna make you right in
front of me I'm like that hurt,uh, that one stuck the tipping
the, the thing that resonated,and I couldn't have done it this
way because it wouldn't havebeen authentic when times were
really hard, like I'm trying tofigure out how to hustle and
make a dollar.
Um, if I'd have said peoplesaid go to the kids, people will
(40:27):
.
And I'm like I ain't supposedto do that yet, it's gotta be
You're monetizing that?
Yeah, for the money right,that's an easy buck right.
Yeah, but it evolved over theyears.
And here's the magic ingredientI don't care if it's a hardcore
prison or whether it's asuburban school or it's down in
the tougher communities.
Whatever is dreams, it's likethe power of a dream.
(40:51):
Dr King started it all.
We jumped off that firstprogram on his birthday in 2011,
mlk Day and it was a dream.
Would these prisoners dare todream, even the ones that were
doing what they call all daylong, which is life sentence, no
parole?
Could I get them to dream?
And then now, with the kids,it's called Protect the Dream,
which is another one of thebooks I wrote, and it's really
(41:12):
about, if you help somebodydevelop a big enough dream, that
dream has a strong pull to it.
It's physics the big thingpulls the small thing, and so
the bigger the dream, thestronger the pull, and what kids
lack in today's world is a bigdream.
So help them design a dream,manifest it and then protect it
from what we call dream killers.
And that would be how they usesocial media, perspective,
(41:35):
authority objectification, drugand alcohol, bullying, you know,
wow, unhealthy relationships.
So it's really the whole game,and then we take it back to
business, all right.
Well, so so you.
You've realized the dream.
You started your business.
Maybe it's Maybe you're stilltrying to get there.
You got to protect it fromwhat's going to kill that dream.
That's what I did not do withmy ministry.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
I did not protect my dream Right, a hundred percent,
that's exactly it.
And it seems so trite to goback to business and and I'm I'm
going to just for a minute thengo to go back.
You're so shallow, I am soshallow, can I get a bigger boat
?
Uh, but protect that dream man,is that?
You're right?
You, you make decisions, andI've heard somebody say this a
long time ago.
Every decision you make limits.
(42:14):
Uh, how far you can gothroughout your life.
You know you, uh, go to college, okay, well, you're gonna go in
that one.
Um, if you have a kid out ofwedlock early on in life, that's
a real.
That takes a lot of the buffetaway.
You know, I'm saying, and so,but what kit's talking about is,
you know, helping peopleunderstand that early on and
goes back to the community.
But my biggest question is man,you don't know this on the
(42:34):
podcast and you haven't figuredit out yet.
Kit's a white man and he gotthe mlk award which, again, if
you're sitting there and youwant to go right down racial
boundaries, which we do, it'sreally easy.
Right, white and black.
Well, only a black guy can geta mlk award.
You got an mlk award and you'rea white dude it was naacp come
(42:54):
on, let's I mean seriously.
I mean again, the media uhportrays that and you go back to
a lot of my good friends wereblack growing up and I didn't
even realize it, but we talkedabout this, but that's an
elephant in the room.
I mean, tell me how that wasfor you, and when you got up
there were you the only whiteguy, or what.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
We were.
They surprised me.
It was their big annual galaand I couldn't come.
I was speaking, it was DrKing's day, and so I was
speaking at another event inanother city and they said, what
if we get you a police escortto be here on time, could you do
it?
And I'm just like, well, youdon't need to do that.
I mean, I'll get there but I'llbe late.
(43:31):
And so I walk in and it's a bigevent, it's a gala, it's
celebrities on the stage.
And I come down and they said,go ahead.
I made sure they knew I wasthere and they told me to sit
down.
I said I'm just sitting thereand just hanging out.
I wasn't dressed for it oranything.
I'm wearing a leather jacket orwhatever.
And they get to that Living theDream Award and they surprised
(43:52):
me.
They said my name and I lookedat it and I was like what?
And it was one of the biggesthonors I've ever had, because I
adore that man.
He changed my life.
I mean, dr King is like I'vegotten to know his daughter, dr
Bernice.
We did a book signing andreleased together at the King
Center.
They carry my book there,endorsed it.
(44:14):
You know, I've gotten to knowI've gotten to know Dr Mahatma
Gandhi's granddaughter.
You know I've done some workwith her.
Ila she's still, she's gettingon in age now.
Mandela's organization, all myheroes I've managed to connect
with.
But but you can imagine thefunny I was on a tour we I mean
we did this crazy tours where wehad a van, a hip-hop crew.
(44:35):
We go from prison to prison tothese shows.
And they had me do blackhistory month.
I think it was in ohio orsomewhere, and so they'd just be
hundreds of thousand inmatesy'all packed in there getting
ready to have this big thing,and they're like the MLK speaker
, you know, for MLK Day, andthen I walk out and it's kind of
like, is he?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
introducing the next dude Right, and you got it.
Let's call it like it is.
You were in this prison andwhen you looked out in that
audience it was diverse, but itwas probably mostly black, right
or Hispanic and probably not asmany.
So when you showed up, you tellyou can't tell me they didn't
sit there and go do what?
What is going on right now?
And I mean you had to convincethem.
So talk about that, because Imean you say you connected with
(45:19):
them, but you're not connectingwith these guys.
You just walked out there andthey're like what in the hell is
going on with this white dude?
So how do you do that?
Tell us how you broke in.
And then you were able to makean impact with your speech and
that it's authentic.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
It's just me going and genuinely starting with
thanking them for saving my lifeand then telling the story and
they're in it's automatic cred.
You know what I'm saying and Ithink that there's.
I used to be afraid to be veryvulnerable on stage and I wish
would have been.
If you said you know what?
Would you go back and tellyourself as a young preacher, be
yourself.
(45:51):
If they can't handle that, thenthat's fine, but let them see
you.
I did that in the prisons and itchanged my life and so it took
them, takes them no time to lookpast the color and say, man,
that's a brother right there.
And I went and actuallyco-pastored the church down in
the Fourth Ward, right by theKing Center.
It was quite an honor right offof Auburn Avenue and I was, you
(46:14):
know, me and my family werelike the token white family in
this congregation and I was anassociate pastor just for a
minute for a couple of years,like nine and ten, something
like that and so I finally Istarted my own thing and I'm
getting ready to fly and they doa big send off for me at the
church and they bring me and mywife and kids up on stage, give
(46:34):
her flowers and balloons andwhatnot.
And then they bring this biggift to me on the stage as a
going away present and um, and Iopen it, it's this big, broad
sword, just this cool, like youknow, braveheart kind of a sword
, which is, and uh, and thenthey made me, they made me an
honorary black man.
wow, black and everything ohcome on it was probably the
(46:56):
second greatest award I've evergot right and double.
As you know, honorary black guy, it's made amazing, awesome and
I hope I don't offend anyviewers I mean shoot I.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
You know I'm saying if you are, that's on you
because, again, I think thatthat's your own personal, uh
perception.
And I think you look back and,man, it's been amazing talking
to the kid and we have weusually do our final four
questions.
We just forget that we got totalk about it.
So so what are you doing nowand how can people help you with
what you're doing?
Speaker 1 (47:22):
yeah, we've got several big things going okay,
so, okay.
So we're in the works right now.
We've got kind of acollaborative group and we're
going to do a documentary seriesand we're going to get cameras
behind the wire in Texas prisonsand they're going to get to see
what I've told you about aboutthese gangsters coming together
and powerful.
At the end of our program wehave a huge presentation, a
(47:46):
celebration.
It's like a, I'll say like thisis a gangster party and, uh, we
give awards, certificates, theymake presentations, music, I
mean it's.
They get rewarded and theycelebrate free world food.
It's amazing, so, prayerfullythat is, that project is going
to get done and we're we'removing ahead with it and we're,
you know, could be netflix mightbe the first stop, but I think
(48:09):
we're going to maybe have someoptions on that.
We're also getting ready toscale our Protect the Dream
program, which has been verykind of local.
I've done it in differentplaces around the country, I do
like the sounds of that.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
That is such a cool thing.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
It's really cool and we start with the student
athlete because they have themost influence.
So at Milton I worked with thefootball team because they have
the most followers right, and weget them to its character and
leadership and positive rolemodeling.
So now I expect you in thehallways.
You take up for the kid that'sbeing bullied, the girl who had
too much drink at the party andshe getting ready to do
(48:42):
something.
The cameras are coming out.
You use your influence to gether out of there and get her
home.
You be a protector.
You've been afforded thispopularity and this influence.
And now with Instagram andTikTok, they've got followers.
Nil deals, come on.
So now's the time to startgetting the ones who have the
influence to protect otherpeople's dreams.
So now, when we do our program,getting ready to do it with
(49:04):
McKeechum football, at the end,when they graduate the program,
we commission them as dreamprotectors in their hallways.
Not just protect your own dream, protect ours, protect his, and
so I'm excited about that.
So we're ready to scale that, Ibelieve.
So people can definitelysupport that.
I also have a program.
(49:24):
I didn't forget about thechurches.
I'm a different kind ofpreacher now, but I've got
another book called 40 Days ofPrayer and that's been on the
road.
I did Estonia and Romania a fewmonths ago.
I did Honduras a couple monthsago, going to Cambodia in
September.
So that's kind of a fun thingwe're doing, um, so yeah, and
(49:49):
it's kit cummingscom or power ofpeace projectcom.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Oh my gosh, you want to talk about uh and Alan.
I know I speak for everybody.
Uh, alan was so jacked uh tohave you come here because, um
and your, uh, your story isamazing.
Um and I, you know you don'twant to hear it, but you got to
hear it from a couple of guyswho've never seen the inside of
a prisoner, totally scared to go.
But if you tell me I got to go,I will go with you, man,
because you're right.
(50:13):
After listening to you, brother, I can do whatever I can do to
help.
I want to help and I just lovewhat you're talking about.
The protector of the dream,protector of this, best ones
we've ever done, alan, it'ssuper powerful, I love it.
(50:34):
Thank you, hey guys, if youlearned something, shame on you.
That's my catholic guilt comingon you right now.
Shame on you.
No, you did learn something.
Go out there, make it a big day, get up there, make it up that
mountaintop.
Protect that dream dream andkeep giving back.
Let's go.
Cheers everybody.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the Small Business
Safari.
Remember, your positiveattitude will help you achieve
(50:57):
that higher altitude you'relooking for in a wild world of
small business ownership.
And until next time, make it agreat day.
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