Who Makes Money Three Times? The Architect-Builder-Developer | Lance Cayko

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Lance Cayko shares his remarkable journey from North Dakota farm boy to Colorado architect, builder, and developer, revealing how one summer job at age 13 sparked his entrepreneurial path.

• Finding his passion in construction after quitting farm work with his father after just one week
• Learning the multiplier concept and business fundamentals from his first mentor, Bruce
• Working in different trades each summer from ages 13-21 to build comprehensive skills
• Pursuing architecture to position himself at the beginning of the client relationship
• Managing the 2,000 decisions clients face when building custom homes
• Balancing three professional roles as architect, builder, and developer
• Weathering the challenges of development and barely making it through their first project
• Finding renewal through fishing and hiking remote alpine lakes during COVID burnout
• Creating "up yards" – specially designed rooftop decks that provide privacy while showcasing mountain views
• Maintaining a one-hour response time policy for all client communications

"Trust the process" is Lance's message to clients navigating the ups and downs of construction. Despite all the advances in technology, buildings are still built by humans, not machines, and understanding this reality helps manage expectations throughout the journey.

Lance’s Profile

linkedin.com/in/lance-cayko-1227031a

Websites

• f9productions.com/ (Company)
• insidethefirmpodcast.com/ (Podcast)

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's a she shed?
What's a she shed?
I don't know what a she shed is.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'll ask the questions that the listeners
want to hear.
All right, what's a she shedfor?

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Sherry, sherry, the she shed, welcome to the Small
Business Safari where I helpguide you to avoid those traps,
pitfalls and dangers that lurkwhen navigating the wild world
of small business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggetsof information and invite guests
to help accelerate your ascentto that mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get

(00:28):
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through the
safari and get you to themountaintop.
That's it, alan.
You said go, I say go, let'sfucking go.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
There was no foreplay on this one.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
None, absolutely not.
We have got to roll.
And yeah, guys, I'm fired upbecause I got somebody in my
industry that we're going totalk to.
Alan has said Chris, we've gotto branch out because our
audience just doesn't want tohear from people who are
building stuff, remodeling stuff.
They don't really want to hearabout handyman all the time.
We want to hear about all thetime.
So guess what, guys?

(01:11):
We've got a true design buildand an architect.
So he's really fancy.
In fact, he's so fancy heteaches people how to be fancy,
does he really?
He is, he's a teacher, he isthat, he.
He's like dumbledore, he's yoda, he is y, he is, he's a teacher
, he is, he's like Dumbledore,he's Yoda, he is Yoda.
In fact, that's awesome.
Oh, guys, we got Lance Keiko ontoday, but before we get to

(01:32):
Lance, we got to talk.
Did you say his name right?
I don't know, did I you?

Speaker 3 (01:34):
did not.
It is Psycho.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Nice.
Is it really Absolutely?
That's outstanding C-A-Y-K-OAll right say my last name.
Well, long way up yes, Allright, we're even Okay.
In the South we say bless yourheart for saying my name wrong
and now you can say wow, he's inNew.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
York.
And what do you say up in NewYork?
You're dead.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, well, he is dead.
Exactly, but I killed his classlance psycho.
Wow, it's c-8 you're right whydid I pronounce his name wrong?
Because, guys, we were startingto talk and alan said stop.
He said you're having way toomuch fun.
This dude's gonna be awesome.
Let's get him on, let's getrolling, let's get after it.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
We usually talk he just jumps on, he goes hello
boys, like we're about ready totee off.
I loved it.
I know it lance.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Welcome to the show buddy thanks for having me guys.
Yeah, appreciate it let's getinto it.
So, architect, design, buildfirm, teacher, avant-garde.
And he lives where we're alljealous of living.
Go ahead, say it alan, out thewest, he's in the malarados.
So alan is, of course, fromoregon.

(02:39):
I'm from michigan, still themother country, still still
god's world.
But we live in Atlanta.
Now, lance, you live in wherewe're all jealous and wish we
could live.
How are you doing, man?

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Doing great, yeah, looking at the mountains every
day.
This morning, as a matter offact, I was driving my daughter
to school.
We look at Longs Peak andMeeker, which is called the Twin
Peaks, and they're the bigmountains right in Rocky
Mountain National Park and I getto look at them every day, and
the clouds over the top of themare just magical.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
I think Meeker's the one my son climbed.
He did his first 14er.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
I bet that's exactly it.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, do you want to pause and go ask him, or can we
keep going?
All right, just checking.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
You know what?
Yeah, can you just give me.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
I'm muting you again, alan.
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Lance the first time.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
So obviously you're not from well, I shouldn't say
obviously.
I researched him a little bit.
He's not from Coloradooriginally, but he migrated to
there.
So where did he start, Lance,where did you start?

Speaker 3 (03:35):
North Dakota, middle of somewhere slash, nowhere
right Northwest.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
North Dakota.
Name one thing in North DakotaAlan Go Bison.
Name one thing in North DakotaAlan Go.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Bison, all right Good .

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Good, alan See.
By the way, he didn't namepeople, because there's just not
that many.
I mean seriously, oh my gosh.
So all right.
So you grew up there, and soNorth Dakota, which is clearly
known as the home ofarchitecture and architectural
design.
You got the bug somewhere.
So how did you figure that out?

Speaker 3 (04:06):
well, yeah, north dakota state is.
I used to call it.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
North dakota state is the harvard in the midwest, hey
you know harvard well, you haveto get in line, because I was
at michigan tech, which we usedto get the mit of the midwest ah
, right, right right all 7 500north dak at the time.
Let's see back when I went toschool there.
How big are you guys now?

Speaker 3 (04:28):
About 13,000, 14,000.
So probably about the same sizeas Michigan Tech today, for
sure.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, no, they're starting to grow.
But yeah, you guys are aboutthe same size as we were then.
But yeah, yeah, that's awesome,all right.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
So North Dakota State state harvard, the midwest it's
hurting architecture.
Yeah, you know my.
I'm 42 and my bug started whenI was 13.
I tried, uh, I grew up innorthwest north dakota, so the
opposite side of the state wherenorth dakota state exists.
I grew up between a cattleranch and a sugar beet farm
group in this really small townlike 500 people, and I tried
farming with my dad for onesummer and I only lasted a week.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
We did not get along too well did you quit or did he
fire you?

Speaker 1 (05:06):
yes okay, yes, you know what I, if we had dad on.
I think dad's story would beway different, and it might be
yeah, it might be.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Uh, no, I, I quit, I quit.
That was what I was.
It's the only job I've everquit actually, actually, there's
two jobs, but that was one ofthe first ones I quit the only
job ever quit was my dad.
Yeah, summers in North Dakotaare not magical like they are in
Colorado.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
It's 100% humidity, 100 degrees, just horrible
Mosquitoes are as big as birds,which is so sad, because it's so
goddamn cold.
You'd think you'd look forwardto the summer.
Yeah but we don't.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
We look forward to the winter and ice fishing 100%.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Never been there in the summer, obviously.
I was just there in the fallplaying football there.
Oh sure yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
But yeah, so I was irrigating sugar beets with him
and I hated the work, I hatedthe bugs, I didn't really like
my dad and I thought my bestfriend, chris.
I was like hey, chris, do youwant to do this job?
Like I think I'm going to quit.
He's like oh yeah, I'll do thatjob.
You know, chris was super poor,he'll do anything.
And so I came to my dad thatFriday.

(06:14):
I'm like I'm done.
Chris is going to start Monday,so I'm going to raise like a
lazy ass and I go well, yeah, ofcourse I go.
I'm gonna call your best friendbruce up.
He's a contractor, right, hegoes.
Yep, I called him up that nightand I go hey, I don't want to
do farming with dad anymore.
I will do whatever.
I'll pick up garbage.
What do you got you gotanything.

(06:34):
He goes.
You know what?
I just landed a big contract.
We're gonna do 80 roofs thissummer.
We're gonna do one roof a dayand you can be my gopher.
I'll pay $7.25 an hour.
I go awesome, what's a gopher?
What's a gopher?
He goes.
Oh, you're going to go for this, go for that.
When you're done, go for thethings.
Then you can get up on the roofand learn how to roof with the
big boys.

(06:54):
I was the best gopher he everhad.
I was so dead set on.
I want to actually learn how todo something.
I, you know, uh, I fell, justcompletely fell in love with the
industry.
I loved all of it, like the catcalling bum and smokes from the
guys as a 13 year old, stufflike that and then just like
seeing the progress.
We would get up super early.
We'd have the roof torn off bylike 10 am, have it put back on

(07:16):
like 2 pm, so you get a littlebit of extra day too.
And uh, bruce saw some.
Bruce, I was like I said I wasthe best gopher he ever had.
He saw some.
I think he saw something in me.
He had to.
About halfway through the summer.
He goes and bruce was the firstentrepreneur that I ever met
too, and he pulls me aside oneday and he goes.
How much you think I'm chargingthe client for every hour.
I pay you and I go 725 an hourand he laughed and laughed and I

(07:39):
was embarrassed.
And then he explained themultiplier.
He explained that he wascharging the owner you know
three to four x my labor and atfirst I said isn't that immoral?
And he goes no, no, this is howit works like.
And he explained profit,overhead, risk, all the business
stuff.
And then I, and then I noticedand you're 13, 13.
I noticed, and so it's a hugelight bulb and I went, oh wow,

(08:02):
and he doesn't seem to have thisanxiety around money like my
mom and dad do.
My mom and dad just work forother people their whole lives.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Maybe you could be a gopher.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Can I be a gopher?
Can I go meet Bruce?
Holy shit, bruce is Yoda.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
What does that make him?
Bruce is Yoda.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Bruce is Yoda.
Yeah, I talk to Bruce everyweek.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
He's still my yoda.
Yeah, I love.
Wow, that's dude.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
This is awesome all right, keep going.
This is, uh, amazing.
So, bruce, obviously big impact.
13, we're all impressed.
13, yeah, changed my life.
Yep and uh.
So I got to the end of this.
I got to the end of the summerand he goes, and I go, he goes.
What do you want to do withyour life?
And I go.
How do I become you?
And he goes.
He said something that Ithought was just like and still,
to this day, almost like,chokes me up a little bit when I
think about how like mature ofa statement and just the thought
it was from a guy.

(08:49):
And he goes next summer.
If you want to be like me nextsummer, you don't work for me.
And I go.
What?
And he goes every single summer.
Now I challenge you you go,learn a different trade, because
that's how you become a generalcontractor.
He goes.
You need to be able to pick upa hammer while you're still
directing the guys.
They're not going to believeyou and you don't have the same

(09:09):
sort of command as you do in thefield if you can't do it all.
So I go, no problem, and that'sexactly what I did.
So, from 13 to 21, I would worka different trade every single
summer.
Then I was so convinced I wentto two years of tech school at
north dakota state school'scollege of science and then when
I got to the capstone projectthere, which was and it
basically is trying to teach youhow to be about a class b level

(09:30):
contractor so you can docommercial, residential, other
good stuff there was anotherlight bulb that went off.
Where the capstone project goes, as a team we're building a
house and we started looking atthe blueprints and the word
architect popped into my headand I went, huh, like I really
like school all of a sudden.
I didn't really like it.
In high school I figured outhow to like monetize it, like I

(09:52):
was getting all thesescholarships and I was like
getting good grades finally anddoing the right stuff, and I
went man, if I became anarchitect next I could have the
client, like I would get theclient first before the builder
and then I could turn into thebuilding client.
I can make money two times anduh.
So then I applied to northdakota state and then did the
same trajectory, you know, justimmediately fell in love with

(10:13):
school all of a sudden,graduated top of the class and
then you know, but now we'rekind of 15 or you know 20 years
later down here.
That's exactly the sales funnelarchitect first, builder,
builder second.
When we funnel those we procure, like who exactly we want to
work with.
I have such an advantage overtheir other gcs down here
because, like I get to interviewthe people for months and

(10:35):
months and months and months,decide if it's another good fit.
The trust is there, uh, and wecan command higher fees with it
all.
So that's what got me into it.
It's the shortest way I cananswer that Wow.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Where do we go now?
I don't know.
There's one more person on theplanet who makes me feel
horrible about myself, all thedecisions I've ever made.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Let me ask this one when was Bruce in my life?
You know, I know I have Bruce.
So my guy was Camille and hesaid go into manufacturing,
manufacturing.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Oops, I didn't.
And, by the way, I want topoint out to our listeners
what's your website.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
F9productionscom.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, the letter F9, the number nine productionscom.
If you happen to be at adesktop listening to this, pull
it up while he's talking,because he didn't go into
architecture just because it wasanother revenue stream.
I mean, oh my God.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, man go look at this stuff.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, it's super modern.
It's super modern, it's Westernand there's a little bit of
Frank Lloyd Wright in there.
Yeah, oh, thank you, good call.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
You know that's so funny.
You say that because here weare in Atlanta, georgia Tech,
very known for theirarchitectural program, and we
have some frank lloyd wrightinspired homes here.
We have some homes that wereactually, um, I believe,
overseen by him.
I do know I looked at one thatwe could not help at all because
these people had left thisthing in total disrepair.
I mean, it would have been, uh,a hundred to two hundred

(11:58):
thousand dollars with justrepairs just to get the siding
back, and so anyway, yeah, Iagree, I agree, f9 Productions
go check it out.
But I got to ask this questionbefore we keep going.
Lance, you're here now.
You're doing your thing, man,you're rocking it.
You're 42.
You got the world by the tail.
If you could go back to onepoint in time, which trade would
you go back and do if you knewyou had to do that all the time

(12:19):
it?

Speaker 3 (12:20):
it was one I didn't even do because I know it would
be recession proof and I couldif I could, white collar it, I'd
be so fricking rich.
Plumbing, yeah, maybe the, the,the, the shortage of plumbers
is like.
You know every day that I Imean, I'm always wearing the GC
hat, but it multiple timesduring the week it'll come up

(12:41):
and I'll go.
I say it out loud to myself.
I'm like I can't believeanything's getting built, like
I'm just shocked things aregetting built.
You know it's so.
So thanks for the complimentsabout all the cool stuff we do
on the, on the website andeverything we do.
I think we do some reallybeautiful, sophisticated amazing
it's stunning, but it's likeit's a miracle to get there.
Almost every time I'm like ohgood you know, you've heard all

(13:01):
the statistics about the lack oftrades and lack of skilled
trades, and then we've beenbeating down young men for about
20 years now with this ideathat they all need a four year
degree, they all need a master'sdegree, and we're just you're a
piece of crap if you're goingto go fix toilets and it's like
I had.
Those people are my heroes.
I want to put those people atthe top of veneration in society

(13:22):
.
So that's what I would pick.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Have at the top of veneration in society.
So that's what I would pick.
Have you figured out a way tochange that?
I mean, are you gettinginvolved in local universities
or trade schools or somethinglike that and just trying to
create your own pipeline?

Speaker 3 (13:35):
You know that's a good question.
We do our own show right.
We have Inside the Firm podcastand I preach a lot about that
kind of stuff.
I come on guests on shows likethis and just try to like I
preach a lot about that kind ofstuff.
I come on guests on shows likethis and just try to like so it
gets set out loud, finally, youknow, and have our voice talked
about like that.
But beyond that we're membersof the Home Builders Association

(13:55):
, so part of that like donation.
Go back to trades.
I'm also a donor at NorthDakota State School of Science,
which that was a trade schoolthat I even I went to and
everything.
But no people ask me every oncein a while like if I could
change one thing in the world,it would maybe be that in the
United States All right, let medo a plug for everybody's
listening, right.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
So here in Atlanta we have the National Skills USA
competition.
Every year it's just like punt,pass and kick.
It is for the trades.
So if you're in automotivetechnology, welding technology,
but they also have the buildingsciences technology.
And so we at Nary NationalAssociation of the Remodeling
Industry, which you know, as youknow, we're on the process, go

(14:38):
ahead.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Do I need to genuflect?

Speaker 1 (14:39):
You should, okay, but SkillsUSA, check it out guys.
Skillsusa, lance, you justbrought that up.
Well, actually, alan, youbrought it up, so I'm going to
plug it.
You want to talk about kidsgetting back in there?
I will say one thing that I'venoticed, because I'm doing the
same.
I can't just get a handyman at18.
You've got to have someexperience, man.
You know, can you be a plumberat 18?

(15:00):
You can't.
Can you be a plumber apprentice?
A hundred percent.
I've had two guys come throughmy program.
Now, uh, at the trusted toolbox, one's going off to be a
licensed electrician and theother one is going to go back to
school and he wants to become a.
Uh, he wants to become acommercial project manager.
And I'm like dude, go do it.
I mean, you're gonna make bigbucks, you know what?

(15:22):
Residential will always be herefor you and you know what.
Hopefully I'll be alive longenough and you can come back and
you can take this that's notthe way you treat yourself.
Let's drink to that all right,so back to more.
Uh, so, lance, that's a greatpoint.
You know, I love that.
You said that about giving backand getting on other people's
podcasts, so you, you struck anerve.
We had to go out on that path,man, it's just so fun.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah, yeah, uh, well, beyond that, that's that's my
trying to help the trades.
Um, I don't know else I couldanswer that.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, the plumbing thing.
So, uh, mine would be carpentry, I think yours would be too.
I would, uh, I would go outthere and do interior trim and
bookcases all day long if Icould.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, I'm afraid of electricity.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
I have a father-in-law who's an
electrician and a retiredbuilding official.
Keep it for me to fly him infrom Michigan to Atlanta to work
on shit, Because if I'm workingon electricity I definitely
will spark myself.
Oh yeah, sure, Even when I turnit off.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I will say, my favorite trade is you know, I
still throw my bags from time totime.
About two summers ago Iactually I mean, I framed up
this beautiful little custom.
She shed.
It was a very expensive, sheshed like $100,000 construction
budget, but I threw my bags backon and had a ball for 30 days.
It was a great way to forgetabout my last girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
What's a she?

Speaker 2 (16:38):
shed.
I don't know what a she shed is.
I'll ask the questions that thelisteners want to hear.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
All right, what's a she shed for Sherry?
Sherry the she shed lover.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
I can't believe you guys haven't heard this.
They got super popular duringthe pandemic so it was like,
well, everybody's working fromhome and then all of a sudden
the husband was like, look, Ineed my wife, who's also now
working from home, to get out ofmy office.
We're sharing an office.
So then everybody was buildingthese little.
They were taking tough sheds atfirst and turning them into
offices for the wife, you know,and putting them back there and

(17:11):
they started calling them sheshed.
The husband already had hisoffice in the house or whatever.
So, but yeah, we, I would thinkthe guy would want to go away.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
No, so she sheds literally.
Uh, we had a lady, her, uh, herher tree went through her.
She shed, no shit.
She called and said you've gotto fix my she shed.
I said, no shit, we'll be outthere and get your she shed all
fixed up.
I can fix out the she shed.
And we went out there and sureenough, it was decorated to the
nines.
It was awesome.
But a tree had fallen throughit and I'm like what is this?
She goes, this is my getawayfor my husband.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
I just thought that the women made us go away.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
We always thought we were destined to the garage.
And the doghouse.
Maybe in Colorado it'sdifferent, but no, we had the
same thing in Atlanta.
Like I said, she called andsaid it was in the backyard of
her Atlanta home and we did that.
I think that's what's romanticabout the work we do, lance, is
that I've got a remodeling and ahandyman company.
I've got 15 handymen runningaround and five project managers

(18:05):
doing the remodeling stuff.
Is that the most fun I have onmy biz is either selling a job
or out there checking on a jobwith one of my guys.
I don't get to put the tools onanymore.
They're way more skilled than Iam, uh, knowing how to run
everything, but isn't that themost fun is just get to see
romantic for the first time inthree and a half years of
podcasting I know, wow, I bringan architect on look what

(18:27):
happens.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Right, you sexy beast , come over here my mike myers
yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Though I mean, yeah, that's what's fun.
You know, I was in thecorporate world for so long and
then getting to see some of thework we do is it's just amazing.
It's not work I do, it's workmy guys do, or I've seen other
people do.
I'm like, wow, it's just socool the guy's working on my
deck.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
I mean I was.
I had a couple of drinks, but Iwas really happy when I was
texting you on friday nightbecause it was so much fun
watching him.
It was like a.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
It was like a ballet and they, those guys, in fact,
the guys doing alan's deck.
We're doing a composite deckfor alan in the back of his
house.
Um, they are.
They've been with me for such along time and such a great crew
and they have fun when they'redoing it.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Oh yeah, I noticed that too.
Yeah, Well, I sent you apicture of one of them having
fun.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, he was taking his five-second siesta.
No, he doesn't.
In fact, the guy who was doingthat, alan, takes a picture of a
guy just laying on the deck.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Arms out wide Spread.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Eagle Lied out.
He's a Hispanic guy and hecalls him his.
There's a word in Spanish theycall it, but it's really micro
siesta.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, I mean, it was like 45 seconds.
He calls them micro siestas,however you say it, but I mean
the rest of the time.
He's standing on the top of oneof those I don't know what you
call them the a, the a-frameladders.
Yeah, top of the a-frame, topof the a-frame, not hanging on
anything.
He's got a nailing gun in onehand.
He's calling out numbers.
Somebody down below is cuttingthe cut's perfect.
They toss it up and it doesn'ttwirl in the air, it just kind

(19:56):
of floated up right into hishand.
He laid it down, bang, bang andhe bang banks it too.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
He uh even hidden fasteners he does yeah so anyway
, we're digressing into thetrade when you see, guys do that
.
It's so romantic though that'sthe challenge I tell my guys
it's so romantic.
You're artists.
That's why I tell my guys, mychallenge to you guys is don't
be a carpenter, don't be a toolin the field, be an artist.
That's what St Thomas Francisof Assisi said back in the 1500s
and I'm going to.

(20:28):
So St Francis of Assisi calledyou a tool.
Is that what I just heard?
Yeah, I have been called a headtool.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
I actually just called the head tool on the
radio the other day.
Oh yeah, yeah.
So anyway, all right back toLance, shall we Lance.
Well, that's my favorite.
That's my favorite.
I think that's why my favoritetrade is, you know, I mean,
that's why I think I have twoanswers.
Like plumbing bunch of money.
But trade-wise, that thingthat's most fun for me, and even
if I'm not doing it is framing,because it looks like you're I

(20:51):
mean you are accomplishing a lotright, and then all of a sudden
you get the house or whateverbuilding you're dried in and
then it looks like nothinghappens for like nine months,
when we all know like, no, no,there's a lot that happens, but
like the progress is reallyastounding.
It's usually the one of thehighest points emotionally, for
clients too.
I mean I think it's one of theso emotionally romantic,
whatever you want to call it.

(21:11):
Uh, because then they go oh,wow, it looks like a bunch of
stuff is happening and it is,and then all of a sudden they
see space and form andeverything like that, and then
you know the question theresponse I get a lot from people
is they go oh, I didn't know itwas gonna look like that, did
you?
I'm like, yeah, we're thearchitect and the builder, of
course, we are.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
That's why you hired me.
And then it finally clicks forme Give the Eastern, forget
about it.
I'll give you a little tellyYou're like, forget about it.
That's why you hired me.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
So I kind of get the feeling that you two have very
different styles.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
So I want to hear what I'm not getting that alone.
Lance and I are driving.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Different hairstyles, for sure.
Oh, thank you bro.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Again we brought somebody on with a great
hairstyle.
I know and he's got great hairtoo.
He's got that curvy wheel.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Again, we'll get a picture.
We are the least attractive menon the planet.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
That's why we do a podcast, alan, based on all
these podcasts.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
I know.
So anyway, all right, go ahead.
No, I want to know how youmanage a relationship with a
customer, because one of thethings Chris has mentioned to me
is, even in just the remodelingthat he does, the client gets
sick of you after a while.
You're a very charming person.
You've got great personality,good energy, which I don't
necessarily see from a lot ofcontractors.
I don't know if I'm getting introuble for saying that.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
No, you're absolutely right.
A lot of them are just sticksin the mud.
That's the way I put it.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
I didn't say that, but anyway.
So how do you manage that?

Speaker 1 (22:38):
I'm on mute.
I don't like you anymore.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
I'm stick in mud.
Get off my lawn dude, you're agood looking stick in the mud,
chris, come on.
We've already established thatwe're not Get out my lawn yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
No, I mean, how do you manage a relationship
through the whole process?

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, how long is it right I already alluded to this
If we're doing a custom houseand we're building two right now
, both have a $3 million budgeteach.
They're big, one is 10,000square feet, one is about 4,500
square feet.
They're about an hour apart andwe started them at the same
time.
We started one a little bitearlier, we started one a little

(23:16):
bit later.
We're going to finish them atthe same time.
One is going to take 16 monthsto build.
It's a 10,000 square foot one.
The 4,500 square foot one isgoing to take 24 months to build
.
It's not because we're slow,it's because these are custom
homes around a price tag of $3million.
So the intricacies ofeverything are just kind of over

(23:43):
the top, right?
So the whole process if Ireally lay out the timeline here
, it took us about a year todesign the project with the
client.
The whole process.
If I really lay out thetimeline here, it's like it took
us about a year to design theproject with the client from top
to bottom, interiors and out,all of that, to get through the
bureaucrats and the governmentand everything and get
permission to build.
It's all about a year.
And then where it's going totake us, like I already talked

(24:04):
about, you know, 18 months totwo, two years to build one of
these homes, and then, I have toworry, warranty it for four
years, for another year on topof that.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
So it's really, it's a four-year relationship like
married to them uh, yeah,exactly so yeah, so let's talk
about the ups and downs of thatrelationship, because my
transactions are quickiescompared to yours, man.
I mean, I'm one night standscompared to what you're doing
yeah, it's.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Uh, I think it's really just having a lot on one
night stands.
You're like the Tinder.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
You're like on Grindr , thank you.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Oh hello, let's go Offer trades, I guess we're like
eHarmony maybe, if we'rethinking about it that way.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I'm definitely tougher.
Let's go.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah, the design process is fun.
It's pretty fun.
It's hard to really get.
People don't get too burnt outof that.
I think the part where they geta little bit overwhelmed is
when there's a lot of designdecisions to make at once.
So it's our job to pare downthe 2,000 decisions, because

(25:08):
that's the average amount ofdecisions somebody has to make
when they're building a house.
What was that number?

Speaker 1 (25:12):
again 2,000.
You've counted 2,000.
There's studies on it.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yep.
There's studies on it.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
That's why I want to bring this up.
I just heard this the other day2,000 decisions for a homeowner
who's probably never done this.
Of course, they bend as they'velooked.
I've been on Pinterest, oh,I've went on Instagram 2,000
decisions you have to help themthrough.
All right.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yep, exactly, and it's my staff's goal, and with
myself, is to pare down thosedecisions to maybe only 100 and
then space them out and makethem digestible for people.
So we're really having tocurate a story for them at every
design meeting and make it to.
It's a fun process because it'sgoing to be, um, where they get

(25:54):
a little antsy after the designprocess and this is the first
sort of like how are they goingto be during construction?
Um, like, what is it a previewof what they might be like if
there's a problem on site?
Or I send them a bill theydon't agree with, or something
like that?
Uh, and that's during thepermitting process.
You know they might get alittle antsy and it's taking too

(26:15):
long.
It's like, hey, I understandit's the government.
You know they're notoriouslyslow or whatever.
Then there's a high point, weget the permit and it's like, oh
, everybody's happy, we're allbuilding, and then it's really
fun until we get to rough.
Like I said, we, until we get toroughs, we start doing interior
, uh, rough, mechanical,electrical plumbing.
Then it gets boring to them andthen they start to get nervous.

(26:37):
And what and why they get alittle nervous is like they'll
see, and I use this word roughvery seriously Is.
I'm often having to tell themlike they're worried about, like
the craftsmanship of the rough,everything and I go.
It is called rough plumbing,mechanical, electrical plumbing,
framing, for a reason, you know, because they'll get a little

(27:00):
like a crack in the 2x4 orsomething.
I'm like wood splits Like thisis what wood does, you know.
So it's managing theirexpectations all throughout the
way, without going to everylittle detail.
That's really what it comesdown to is managing expectations
, trying to be their trustedadvisor.
It's like when I hire a goodlawyer and I am good at hiring
good lawyers is because I vetthe crap out of them and I don't

(27:23):
let them bullshit me and I knowthat they need to align with.
They need to align with, like,my communication style, which is
very rapid and fast and all ofthat, and so it's all.
They're my trusted advisor.
That's what I'm looking for.
Like, hey, mr Lawyer, can yoube my trusted advisor?

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I need to trust you and we put on that same hat as
architects and builders.
That's such a good point.
Is the?
Is that jihad with the people?
It's that's so hard becausethey see a lot of activity
framing oh my god, awesomeactivity.
Plumbing oh awesome activity.
Oh rough electrical awesomeactivity.
Drywall well, when are you guysgoing to get going to the

(28:02):
finish?
Where are the cabinets?
Well, we had to have thecabinets and we had to dry one
to get the cabinets measured.
There's going to be periods ofactivity, low activity.
Setting expectations to exceedexpectations is so huge.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
But you now know this rhythm and so it sounds like
you actually go.
Okay, they're probably going tobe feeling like this right
about now, so I better have thatconversation before it bubbles
up in their head.
I mean, are you proactive aboutit?

Speaker 3 (28:29):
No, it doesn't.
You can be, but it only goes sofar.
People have to learn their ownlessons in this construction
journey, whatever side of thecoin they're on.
I'll tell you what taught usthe lesson in two different ways
.
Before we even had to basicallylearn as we go with a client,
my wife and I built a, a customhouse for our us and our
children uh, in 2015.

(28:51):
And I learned a lot about my ownexpectations.
We hired a, we had to.
We had to hire a developer, wehad to hire a general contractor
in order in order to do it.
Just how the deal worked outAfter that.
Then I also uh, we bought athird of an acre up here in
Longmont, where we operate, andwe became full-fledged
developers too.
I forgot to tell you that partof the story, too.

(29:12):
That was another light bulb.
When I got to architectureschool, that was the third light
bulb that went off in my head.
As I went, this word developerkept coming up and I went oh my
god, if I was a developer, Icould make money three times and
I could literally hire or fireme two times.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Oh, we got to talk about that.
Oh, let's back this up because,again, small business journey
is huge and you've been able topull it off and done a great job
and you go hey, man, everybodycan do this.
But as we know and we talkabout this on the pod all the
time is that nine times out often you fail.
I mean, you can really fail,and one of the big ways I've
seen people fail is that theylook at every shiny object and

(29:49):
they keep going for it, keepgoing for it, keep going for it.
Next thing you know they'reback to the corporate america
job going.
I'm done.
I'm like, yeah, man, you got tostay focused and you know what,
sometimes it sucks, and itreally sucks, but you got to do
it.
So you saw a developer early,but you decided not to go there.
You ended up there.
So how did you do it?

Speaker 2 (30:06):
well, well, well, but no, you just hijacked his
answer on to my question.
I thought I answered it too,you answered it.
Yeah, you, you were your own.
You were a customer, though, soyes, yes, yeah well, that's
where I learned about theexpectation.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Like those, just the experience of it all and I went.
Okay, yeah, I went okay, when Istart building for people, I
cannot forget the lessons that Ilearned myself about seeing how
it all works, you know, in that, in that regard and working
through it.
So yeah, to push back to talk alittle bit more about that,

(30:42):
okay, do I.
Am I proactive about settingtheir expectations?
Not as much as you would think.
It really is actually just sortof kind of being a punching bag
and reassuring them and helpingthem trust the process.
That's the big thing.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
So here's the hijack.
Here's why, as a guy in it, wecan't be proactive.
We can set an expectation andwe can try to exceed it.
Can I predict every answer orevery question that's going to
come at me?
I'm telling you, man, after 17years and 17,000.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
He knows that they're going to be kind of weirded out
about that split two by four.
You can't just jump ahead ofthat.
How about?

Speaker 1 (31:20):
this one?
No, because the questions comeout of nowhere.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Dude, I'm telling you , you're working with the
general public, nuts well,they've been hgtv'd and I'm
guilty of that as, but as onewho's been on hgtv with the
producers saying like we shouldmake a show like you guys had no
problems building this tinyhouse and I'm like uh, we had no
, and then too bad yeah, it'sjust, it's hard because what?

Speaker 1 (31:47):
but you get that one, the one person who goes, oh, I
get it.
And then you get the otherperson who goes no, I've
actually gone on the internetand looked and the gap is too
big.
You're like how do you, how doyou overcome that?
You can't.
So overcoming objections is sohard With, especially when
you're in the building,especially when you're dealing
with people who are in computerprogramming or it, which is very

(32:09):
, very prevalent Coming fromthat world.
It's ones and zeros man.
Going back to it again as a kidwho was a punch card kid, I
mean, I actually went to schooland made a punch card and ran
computer programming.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Chris, you know what else it is.
Here's another.
I love your zeros and ones partof it.
I'm going to hijack that anduse that when I talk to people
too, just old people.
We're all holding these.
Now, right, we're all holdingthese perfectly machined,
perfect little computers and Ithink the general public looks
at that object so much, thisperfect thing, and they forget

(32:46):
that like that was made bymachines, wherever robots.
And all of a sudden, like theone of the very few things we
still have in america as far aswhere that could even be close
to something that's manufactured, is buildings and they're built
by humans, and so they're.
If you're gonna have theseartifacts that pop up and it's
like, yeah, how do you managethe objections?

(33:07):
I that's one of the actualthings that I talk about with
owners is I go, hey, I think wejust all need to refocus and
remember we're holding thesebeautifully things and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I go remember these.
Jose's out there building this.
He's just banging stickstogether Like that's what we're
doing.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, I just uh, it's just.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
It's hard to explain it to people Did you hear his
customer voice, though thecustomer talking voice got a
little high-pitched, kind oflike it was talking to a puppy
Actually so funny because I waslike yes yes yes, and I was like
oh my God.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Now you say that I'm like oh well, yeah, yeah, well,
it's just two contractorstalking.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
You just happen to be here right now.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
You're like oh, and another thing With a southern
accent, which I won't do for youagain Please, which I won't do
for you again.
Let's go back to it.
So, lance, obviously you got tothe developer.
I want to get back to thatagain.
So you saw the shiny objectearly on, but you knew enough
not to do that.
Or tell us how you ended upgetting to that developer.
Hey, I'm going to make the bigbucks.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
Oh yeah, that's what we think right, and we barely
made it out.
We barely made it out.
We ended up sitting pretty goodafter the Fed decided to print
a ton of money and then doublethe money and then increase real
estate values.
Then all of a sudden, becausewe held on to three units, it
was like, oh actually we'redoing pretty good equity-wise.
The cash return was not therefor sure.
We barely made it.

(34:25):
We had to get hard money.
It barely squeaked by even aprivate hard money lender to
even get the $3 million projectfinanced.
Do you want to say something.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
No, I love that you said that, because again
everybody goes oh, developer,that means I don't have to do
all the hard work, I just haveto develop it and I can make all
the money.
You just said it.
Hey guys, it's the same hard,it's just a different hard.
I mean, it's all the same,life's hard, and so that's a big
one.
I love that you said that.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, yeah, so how we got into it was the first real
design plus build project thatwe did was in about 2014.
It was a tiny house and so tinyhouses were all the rage back
in the early 2000s.
If everybody doesn't rememberthat, it a reaction to the
mcmansion stuff.

(35:14):
And then the fallout uh, duringthe during the big short and
the great recession, right whereyou had all these mortgages
that were packaged and then theywere sold bad and everything
fell out from the bottom.
So then everybody you know allthe millennials and gen x went
well, screw you guys.
Like we're gonna go the completeopposite direction.
We want to make, we want to bemortgage free, build these super
tiny houses, live off the grid.

(35:35):
We're going to just bedifferent.
And we saw all these tinyhouses being designed and built
and they were just like Keecheethere was like a cabin and stuff
.
And we went well, we're kind ofmodernists and, like you said,
frank Lloyd Wright-y and all ofthat.
And we were like, what is theopposite, the opposite.
So we created the opposite andit's called the atlas tiny house
and we're my business partnerand I al gore, that's his real

(35:56):
name.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
He's no psycho and al gore psycho and al gore.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
That'll be the.
That's going to be the nextarchitecture room if this fails,
it's like gore and psycho.
Gore and psycho yeah, what'sthe tagline?

Speaker 2 (36:09):
right gore and psycho we I don't know, sounds like a
quentin tarantino movie dude atthat gore and psycho.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
We can design your house.
What can go wrong?
There you go.
Oh my god, you nailed it, chris.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
Thank you yeah I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
I'm gonna show that without?

Speaker 3 (36:23):
yeah, we were.
We were coming back fromboulder one day because we we
went and celebrated.
We went and boughtcheeseburgers or something we
can't.
We bought it.
We got our first duplex projectin 2010 as architects and for
us it was a big deal, and so wecalled our one of our, one of
our best friends.
His name was blake.
Blake was depressed.
He still had his job.
See, I got laid off from mineafter I graduated from

(36:44):
architecture school.
That's how we started f9,because there was no jobs out
there.
Al got laid off from his in newyork city.
He's working for studio DanielLiebskin and then we both came
out here get this duplex.
We call Blake.
Blake's depressed Blake'sgainfully employed, though with
this architecture firm.
We're like, well, blake, howmuch money do you got?
And he's like I don't know,like 25,000 in the bank.
We're like you should designand build a tiny house and just

(37:07):
travel around the United Statesand and take photographs.
And he was like, ah, yeah, okay, me and Al are very serious
about stuff like that, and so Igo well, we're doing it, blake.
We hang up, we go to the, I gohome and I buy the domain name
blakestinyhousecom Genius.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I love it.
Yeah, dude, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
I know.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
I know, hey Blake, the hey Blake, the only guy who
has a job.
You seem really depressed.
Hey Blake, it's good.
Hey, we're the guys withoutjobs.
We're really happy.
Hey Blake, guess what?
You just have Blake's tinyhouses.
You know you're in business, dowhat.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Oh yeah, that was pretty much the email the next
day.
I think it was actually moresimple than that, I think it was
.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
I guess you're doing it along.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
I know he played along for three or four months
and we designed it togetherremotely and all of that.
It got so much organic trafficon the web.
Places like nbc, cbs, hgtvstarted picking it up, all kinds
of newspapers.
It was pretty wild.
It was like whoa, we reallystruck a nerve here and it and
the design was cool.
Right, because it was uh, wewere trying to make a

(38:12):
transformer house on wheels,like the walls could open up and
fold and all of these things.
It was uh, we were trying tomake a transformer house on
wheels, like the walls couldopen up and fold and all of
these things.
It was super, a lot of glass,super modern again, completely
different than these littlekitschy cabin like ones.
Blake finally said I'm notdoing it.
Guys like this is.
This is silly, but the mediakept coming, kept coming, kept
coming.
Al goes down to a it's three orthree or four.
A couple years later, about 2013, he goes down to the denver

(38:35):
home and garden show.
Hgtb is there and they andthey're we got a big sign.
They're looking for tiny housebuilders and I'll go hey, that's
me, we were not.
I mean whatever and he comesback to the office and he goes
hey, by the way, I signed us upto be on hgtv.
We're gonna, we're gonna buildthat house.
I'm like, what?

(38:55):
Like with what money?
And he's like, well, we'redoing the show.
We got to build it in like sixweeks.
I'm like, okay.
And so we took out a loan uh,for 50k business loan only one
we've ever taken out.
What year?
Uh, 2013.
We designed it, we built it.
We were on hgtv every two weeks.

(39:16):
It was so it got such goodreception.
And then it got into dwellmagazine.
It just went viral all over theinternet.
We went on internationalarchitecture award for it.
Subaru saw it and they go hey,can you guys build us two more,
but bigger, stronger, faster,fancier, more foldable, all the
things.
And I went and I looked it outand I'm like, no, like that was
so hard.

(39:37):
We invented architecture.
Like I had to conjure up all ofmy freaking carpentry skills
that I learned my whole life toget it done.
And he goes but what if I tellhim this number?
And I go dude, if they go formy wife, there's no way my wife
could even say no.
And they didn't blink.
And then so we designed thosetwo, built them, made enough

(39:58):
money, bought that piece of land, bought this third of an acre
that I'm sitting on right now,I'm in our shop, and we became
developers and so we designed,we bought the land and that
would have been 2017.
Took a year to go throughentitlements, get the building
permit, built it in 2019, soldthe last unit the day before the
market crashed, before whenCOVID hit and uh, but just like,

(40:21):
I'm like oh my, I'm likeliterally like, oh my God, like
thank you, god, um, for all ofthat.
So then we took a step back,because there was a period where
I had my tool bags on for like80 days in a row on the job site
.
You know, I like I hung all thecabinets.
I did so much actual physicalwork wearing all three hats,
still playing architect.
Sometimes I'd like change out ofmy construction clothes.

(40:44):
Put on nice clothes, go meet anarchitecture client, come back
to the job site Doing the wholething.
We just barely made it out, butwe ended up sitting really
pretty now and like to bringpeople into our office.
Now.
That is that we designed, built, developed.
Show them all the stuff we usedto get a lot of like pushback
on.
You guys look really young.
You don't look like you haveexperience and it's like then I

(41:05):
bring them into the office and Igo like what other architect
has the kind of experience thatwe do?
You know at that point, andthen it's just hook, line and
sinker so another story whenballs meet opportunity yeah,
right, I mean, I think that's it.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
So is blake still involved or no?

Speaker 3 (41:22):
no, no, no, I can't even get him to come fishing.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
That's pretty crappy oh yeah, we haven't even talked
about that crappy fishing, getit.
How pun they don't have crappyin colorado?

Speaker 2 (41:31):
oh, you don't know crappy but he's he's a
professional fisherman.
Did you see that?

Speaker 1 (41:36):
yeah, I did see that, so let's talk about that,
because I mean, oh, my god, Ican talk all day, but you know
what?
You've got to have me on yourpodcast, bro, because I can't
come out and talk construction.
Yeah, all right, let's talk,let's talk fishermen.
So in your spare time, yourfunsies, you're in, uh, colorado
, yep, you fish.

(41:56):
What do you fish for?

Speaker 3 (41:59):
it's gonna be trout.
Oh man, it mostly trout.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, mostly trout, but this weekend I mean
questions here, yeah I'm gonnashoot you with this rubber band
like tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
tomorrow we're going on our annual trip up to north
dakota.
Each may we go up there for aweekend and we go after these
paddlefish.
They're huge, they're like 100pounds.
You snag them.
It's one of the best fishingtrips on the planet, for sure
that's like Neanderthal fishing.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Oh, they're dinosaurs .

Speaker 1 (42:30):
You're a big fisherman.
Have you ever fished forsturgeon or some like the?
Uh, like these crazy fish well,that's like that sounds like he
is that's what these are.
Yeah, yeah, well, it's dirt isso sturgeon fish in michigan so
I'm not a fisherman uh now wehad him in oregon too you have
sturgeon there yeah, he's gotthose razor teeth that like rip

(42:51):
the uh things.
They are prehistoric-lookingthings, yeah, they are too, man,
they're crazy.
So I grew up in Michigan and mydad was from Little Italy,
italian immigrant.
We don't even have guns.
We never had fish bowls.
But I got to do all that withmy buds, except they never gave
me a gun.
Long story.
So let's go back to the fishing.
So you're fishing, you're goingfor these paddle fish.

(43:16):
So what do you do for fun?
I mean, you do regular fishingfor trout in colorado, or what
well, yeah, but, and this kindof ties into the development.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
So after the development, I kind of had my, I
had a midlife, I kind of had amidlife crisis because kovat hit
at the same time and so it wasjust.
It felt like armageddon.
You know, in so many differentways there's so many different
people and and I was just like Iwas burnt out from work because
I'd been working so hard to getthe development done and we
finish it, and I thought itwould be elation, but it was

(43:42):
more of just like stagnation.
And then COVID hit and weweren't suddenly going on family
vacations and there was nothingwe could do.
And at the same time, mychildren there's four of them
now 21, 20, 18, 16, when theyall at that point that's a whole

(44:02):
other podcast right there.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
I know this would have been 2020.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
And they got to the age where they don't care about
you anymore.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
They're like bye.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
I don't even want you around.
I'm like.
I'm like, oh, what oh?

Speaker 1 (44:19):
alan and I have older kids than that and that never
happened.
Yeah, of course it did.
She doesn't listen to the show,his kids, uh, don't either.
But yeah, yeah, I know what youmean.
Oh we all know my friends yep.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
So they hit that age and my I got to.
I was looking, you know, onthere, but there was nothing to
do.
So even if I just sat there andlooked at my wife, I'm like,
wow, I forgot I.
I was so busy being super dad,super architect, builder,
developer, all these otherthings and I went, oh frick, I
forgot why I moved to coloradoin 2008.
It was for the mountains andthe fishing.
And I went, wow, now I don't, Ihave, I have, I have enough

(44:50):
cash to buy whatever I wantfishing-wise for the first time
in my life.
And there's these mountains andthere's nothing else to do.
So I became obsessed with hiking10 to 16 miles round trip each
day and I would go out Saturday,sunday, and then I took off
Wednesdays and I did this forlike two or three years in a row
and I would go all the way up.

(45:11):
I would start about 8,000 or9,000 feet in the air and I'd go
all the way up to like 11 or12,000 and reach these very
remote Alpine lakes that you cansee like 25 feet into the water
and do these catching cooks.
Where I wouldn't bring any food, I'd bring a little bit of
water and I would catch theselike the most pristine protein

(45:32):
in the world and then fry themup on the shore and I just had
to like go to all the way backto like primalness.
And I just recently finishedthis book.
It's called the comfort crisis.
I I recommend every man readsit, every man who's doing any
kind of you know, in the modernsociety work where we're just
like, oh, we're punchingspreadsheets and stuff like that

(45:52):
comfort crisis.
I've read that book just thiswinter and that book reflected
me exactly and I went.
I was like walking through thewoods listening to it and I was
like, oh my gosh, I could havewrote this book.
This book is about me, and so itmade everything click of like
why I got back into it.
These adventures are so magical, I mean because they're like
remote.

(46:12):
They.
These adventures are so magical, I mean because they're like
remote.
They're lakes that some peoplewill never see.
It's so hard to get there and Iwas like I got to start filming
this.
I want to share this with, notonly when I'm dead or like on my
deathbed, like I can watch themand share them with my kids,
but like the world.
So I started a YouTube channelcalled Fishing with Lance and a

(46:33):
bunch of other channels and thenwe became monetized and we get
sponsors and all kinds of goodstuff and kind of fulfilled one
of my last little checkbox ofentrepreneurs like professional
fishermen.
So that's, that's the story,Holy crap.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
That's a professional fisherman, Alan we need to do
over.
Hey Lance, can you carry me upthere?

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Cause.
Can you drive a golf cart tothese lakes?

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, or if you put me on a ski lift.
That's the only way I go to bedhigh.
Can you drive a golf cart tothese lakes?
Yeah, or if you put me on a skilift, that's the only way I'm
making it.
Bro, dude, this has beenamazing.
Huh, kinship, we're there.
Love what he's doing, loveeverything he's going about.
So kids are a little bityounger than ourselves.
Another super quality guy right,yeah, yeah, with good hair.
Well, let's talk biz for aminute, all right.

(47:16):
So lance, uh, let's talk biz,shall we yeah?
How can everybody find you?
Let's go check out f9.
We already talked about thatearlier.
How else can people find you?
Just hit that couple morethings.
Let's hit that up and let's gothe final four questions okay,
cool, yeah, uh, yeah, linkedin.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
I'm posting on LinkedIn quite often.
I will link in with almostanybody.
There's only one of me becauseof the very unique last name.
So if you go to LinkedIn, youtype in L-A-N-C-E last name,
c-a-y-k-o Link in with me.
It doesn't matter, even ifyou're an Indian scammer, I will
link in with you.
Really, do you do that?

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Oh my God, it's so funny.
Holy shit, Dude my wife waslike you're psychotic, and I'm
like, no, I'm just a troll too.

(48:07):
So you're the guy who, whensomebody, calls you like hello.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
It's a scam call calling Hello and then they'll
ask for my business partner ifhere's what they do, yeah, they
go can I uh, can I speak to algore and I'll go.
Oh, he, he died yesterday he'ssitting right next to me.
Oh my god, it's so fun I go to.
I got I gotta go to confession.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Geez, oh, he says confession, oh he's part of a
family baby cast the guy righthere.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
I figured you guys were.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah, yeah yeah, so alan not so much yeah, he's
close.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
You know he's gonna want crush going on here, don't
you, we're gonna watch the pope,right?

Speaker 1 (48:46):
you're gonna watch?
Yeah, I'll watch, of course yousure, so fun.
So I got up at 4 am the othermorning just to watch it.
That's how stupid it was.
I just, oh really, I knew itwas going down, so I recorded it
, and I got up at 4 am the othermorning just to watch it.
That's how stupid it wasi justoh really, I knew it was going
down so I recorded it and Iended up waking up and I'm like
all right, I'll just watch it.
But I do what I do every time Igo to bass.
I fell asleep in the hobbly butthere was an italian man.
Come on, I mean come on.
He hit an italian.

(49:07):
I was like I don't know italian, I don't know what oh sure, so
yeah, but but that's not myexcuse when I'm here.
So all right, let's go back.
Lance, you brought up a greatbook.
We're going to use that one.
Comfort Crisis Got to use thatone.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
So now, we got to move.
This is going to be probablyone of the more interesting
answers to favorite feature ofthe home.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
What is the favorite feature of your home?
Because these from a designdynamite bro, what's the
favorite feature of your home?

Speaker 3 (49:34):
my, the one that I live in.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yes, yes, oh, okay and not the garage that we're uh
podcasting out of, where Iwatch the garage door go up and
down, I was like what is goingon, oh?

Speaker 2 (49:43):
it's a garage door dude.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Yeah, well my son is in the background here.
He's burning wood for one ofthese houses we're uh building
where he's charring it Customstuff he's working with you
doing it.
He's working with me.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
yeah, Another winner Another thing he does better
than us.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Lance wins again because Chris and Alan can't
seem to get the kids to comeanywhere near us.
Nope, toxic.
Back to Lance and how awesome.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
He is In our development.
It's there was, it's a.
It's an urban infill project.
It's the sixplex duplex.
There's a 24 foot drive aislein between the two buildings.
What I'm trying to describe isthere is no front or backyard,
right Like it's in.
It's in a city a little city,but we have.

(50:33):
I have a better, I have moreprivacy and I have more of a of
a backyard, but we called it anup yard.
We each unit has a rooftop deckthat is designed so perfectly
to where when you're sittingdown.
We made the parapet walls 48inches so that when you're
sitting down, you can't seeanybody else and nobody can see

(50:53):
you, but you can see the sky andthe mountain peaks and all of
that.
And then we also put astroturfon top so you can play mini golf
up there and stuff that's myfavorite part.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
My favorite part is up yards.
God, you've got to send me apicture of that dude.
I will.
We'll get that after.
Oh, my god, I'm gonna post thatsucker, sucker.
Oh, that's amazing.
That is amazing.
You know what's more amazing?
The fact that his kid wants towork with him, or that he has
that.
That thing's freaking me out.
My kids go no dad, your kidswent no dad, all right, but they

(51:27):
still love us.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Let's go to question three.
I don't want to dwell on thatany further.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Alan and I have talked a lot about it in our
podcast.
We love customer service, loveeverything about it.
That's the only way I build mybusiness.
We're kind of customer servicefreaks.
So what's the customer servicepet peeve of yours that you
don't like when you're out thereBad?

Speaker 3 (51:48):
communication.
Number one.
Number one easily is badcommunication because we have a
rule at both of our firms, thearchitecture and the
construction companies If aclient, a consultant, anybody is
trying to get something from usthat we need to do with them or
whatever.
We have nine principles that'swhere kind of part of F9 plays

(52:11):
into is.
And the fourth one iscommunication.
Everybody has to get back towhoever is asking something of
them within one hour or less, noquestions asked.
And if they can't, if theycan't get you in, that there's a
little bit of wiggle room withit, like if it's a long,
detailed answer, we need to findfor somebody codes or whatever.
You can just get back to theclient and say hey, got your

(52:34):
email.
I see you, I'm swamped.
I promise I'll have thedetailed answer within 24 hours
of this email that I'm sendingyou, or text or phone or
whatever, and then you can dothe longer one.
That alone is just giant.
Alone is just giant.

(52:57):
I mean I'm just continuallyshocked about how poor of
communicators society has become.
I don't know if it is ever good, but maybe my problem with it
is is like why I'm so hard onpeople about it is because I'm
like yes, thank you, chris.
You, I was gonna just pick upmine.
I was like we got this freakingthing in our hands.
That's a tricorder.
Like you grew up watching startrek, it's like we have the
tricorder now oh, you did not.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Just don't do that.
Don't do that, lance.
I'm way older than you.
That's that we didn't knowthose things would be around and
here they are.
All right, lance.
That was awesome because you'reright.
Because today, in today's world, nobody wants to go back to the
world we grew up in, which is,if I called my buddy on the
phone and we only had to usefour digits to get him because
you had party lines out northdakota.
There's no way you had anythingother than that um and and he

(53:39):
didn't answer, you assumednobody's home.
He was not there because hedidn't answer, not, he ignored
you.
But now, if I send you a textmessage, you don't respond
within an hour.
I am smoking and you leave yourread receipts on you.
Oh my god oh, you read it andyou didn't get back to me.
Well, you're dead to me.
Oh, you are so dead to me.

(53:59):
What if I'm in a ball game,still dead, alan gone.
Well, actually, I'll give you abreak.
My wife, no, no, my wife willabsolutely like she'll blow me
up.
She knows I do training with myguys every other wednesday 7,
30, 8, 30.
I start getting blown up at 730 he goes hey, I need an answer
.
I need an answer.
I'm like I'm up therepresenting in front of 35 people

(54:19):
.
I'm like I got back to her.
She goes um, okay, thank you,that's all I got.
I'm like do better.
Yeah, yeah, all right, lance.
Oh, buddy, this is gonna be agood one.
I mean, you gotta, you've gotto go extra special.
I want a DIY nightmare story.
So I'm in the biz, you've beenin the biz.
I mean, my hand clamp has scarsthat you can't imagine.

(54:40):
I just used that in one of thebuddies, by the way.
He was like what's that mean?
I said every time I put trim up, I'd shoot my gun two and a
half and if I missed it, comethrough my finger.
I said my finger is mangled andyou can see it here.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Oh god, oh yeah, that's nasty, I know, thank you,
don't show that to me everagain.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
I know it's bad, so but but it's a great hand clamp
it got so it got so bad.
I got numb Lance.
We want a DIY nightmare storyof a client.
Yes, no oh me oh, you did.
Oh no, I want fire waterimpalement.
I've done that too, okay I'lltell you.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
I'll tell you one about the development, right,
and this is uh, so I did mentionthe, so this is, it is diy, diy
.
I mean, we are doing, we weredoing it ourselves.
Yeah, man, come on, we all makemistakes, yeah, well, well,
this was.
I couldn't believe thishappened.
So if anybody wants to hear theactual story, they could go to.
They could just Google Insidethe Firm Podcast.

(55:41):
Don't Go Chasing WaterfallsInside the Firm Podcast.
You know where I'm going withthis.
I'm going to listen to that.
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Don't let's go, don't go chasing, and no, it is not
the tlc song.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yeah, the firm podcast.
Don't yep.
Pc mortar falls.
Let's do it.
Uh, it is uh.
So we are scrambling to getthis development done.
It is the end of 2019.
It's cold, it's bitter, I'mexhausted.
We're everybody's working.
It's all hands on deck.
We even I even called uh.
No, I didn't call my dad downat that point.
I did after this.
I broke down.
I broke down as a man in thisone.
It was bad.

(56:15):
Um, we are like a week awayfrom co the project, the.
You know, we're final trim out.
Caulk is in, like it's thatkind of stuff.
Final cleanings are happening.
But I'm still kind of upbeatthis day and I wake up even
earlier than usual.
It's like 4 am and I'm liketoday I'm going to just, it's

(56:37):
going to be an awesome day.
It's going to be one of thebest days on site.
Oh yeah, coffee's cranked, I'mjust pumped.
I'm listening to some goodmusic, whatever it was.
I get there and I start.
I'm like, okay, I'm going tostart opening doors, getting
ready for everybody to come inand start making punch list
walks and all that.

(56:57):
I open up the building.
I'm sitting in now.
Everything looks fine.
I start opening up the buildingbehind me and I go to the first
unit Good.
Second unit, good.
Third, fourth, get to the sixthand I hear this like beeping
and it seems like it smells alittle funny and I opened the

(57:18):
door and it was just a waterfalland it caught me down to my
knees.
I mean, it was just like I waslike no way, like no way, no way
.
I'm like what, what is going on?
And this is me leading up tothis.
By the way, we were one of thefirst townhome projects in the

(57:38):
city we built in to have to putin sprinkler systems, to have to
put in sprinkler systems in ahouse, and the whole time I'm
very anti-government.
I'm very like, like, just stopthe bureaucracy stuff, you know,
and uh, and I'm like, I'm like,sure enough, I knew this was
gonna happen.
Like the sprinklers, like thisis so dumb that they're putting
them in single family homes andall this other stuff.

(58:00):
And I call my, I call mybusiness partner, I'm freaking
out, or whatever.
And I call the plumber, I callthe sprinkler people, I call I,
I call, I call my mom, I call I.
Just it was panic attack, right.
Come to find out it was aplumber and instead of using the

(58:21):
nice threaded uh connectionsfor sinks underneath.
They had like the plug and playones, and he just didn't plug it
in far enough and it ended upwe had to file an insurance
claim.
Our plumber thankfully owned upto it.
But that is my biggest DIYnightmare ever.
But that unit ended up selling,by the grace of God, I swear on

(58:42):
that last.
That was the last one that sold, right before the market
crashed and we squeezed out ofthe deal and could breathe again
.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
We got to end on that one.
F9 productions lance what'sthat?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
what's f stand for?

Speaker 3 (58:56):
I gotta know that the f9 is the hot key on the
keyboard for x.
We're doing these architecturalrenderings.
When we first started thebusiness, we didn't have any
built work, no clients, nothing.
All we had was f9 productions.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
So here, we are nice.
That's awesome f9 productions.
Go check him out, lance.
How can people find you online?

Speaker 3 (59:15):
well, they could google me, find me anywhere, if
you google me.
There's all kinds of otherguests spots that I've done on
shows like this.
Um, you can listen to us.
I'm gonna have chris on theshow.
I definitely need him on theshow.
Uh, you can go to inside thefirm podcast.
You can go to f9productionscom,um, and find us on all, all
places.
Cool, don't forget fishing withlance to youtube, subscribe,
don't forget that.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Man guys, if you've learned something, that's on you
, man, because this has beenamazing, what a great venture,
what a great time, becauseyou're in your truck, you're
taking a walk, you're doing yourthing.
I'm sure you came back to itbecause lance killed it.
This is awesome.
The garage door is going up.
It's time to get out of here.
We got to make things happen.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
Small.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Business Safari.
Remember your positive attitudewill help you achieve that
higher altitude you're lookingfor in the wild world of small
business ownership.
And until next time, make it agreat day.
Outro Music.