August 2, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode, Tamsin is joined by Elaine Richardson, who is a family lawyer and mediator, to talk about her work and what she gets up to when she’s not with clients.
Elaine Richardson
"I am a family law solicitor, collaborative lawyer and accredited child inclusive Hybrid mediator. I supervise other mediators as their Professional Practice Consultant (PPC) and I supervise family lawyers as their Family Law Supervisor.
I am a trainer and presenter specialising in domestic abuse, safeguarding, trauma and high conflict. I run my own business called Richardson Family Law. I am a member of the national non-court dispute resolution committee for Resolution. I’ve been a member of Resolution for over 25 years. Resolution is a community of family justice professionals who work with families and individuals to resolve issues in a constructive way. We have a membership of about 6,500. I was recognised nationally as the winner of the prestigious John Cornwell Award in 2019 by Resolution.
I have been trained by the High Conflict Institute of America to conduct mediations involving high conflict and I have also been trained by the HCI as a mediation coach to prepare and support people going into the mediation process (NCDR?). I work for the charity shared parenting Scotland in this role. I am a trauma informed and skilled lawyer trained by The Scottish Law Society."
https://richardsonfamilylaw.co.uk/
Tamsin Caine
Tamsin is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.
You can contact Tamsin at tamsin@smartdivorce.co.uk or arrange a free initial meeting using https://bit.ly/SmDiv15min. She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK
Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
Smart Divorce Ltd
https://smartdivorce.co.uk
P.S. I am the co-author of “My Divorce Handbook – It’s What You Do Next That Counts”, written by divorce specialists and lawyers writing about their area of expertise to help walk you through the divorce process. You can buy it here https://yourdivorcehandbook.co.uk/buy-the-book/
To learn more about our podcast sponsor Ampla Finance – access their product guide here: https://bit.ly/3Ieqmuc
Or complete enquiry form https://bit.ly/3W4J7pz and one of the team will be in touch.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tamsin Caine (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the Smart Divorce Podcast.
This is series nine, and inthis series we're going to
explore what makes up theworking week of various
different professionals who workin the divorce world.
You'll start to understand whatthey do, both during the time
that you see them, how theyprepare for meetings, and what
(00:31):
work goes into the work of adivorce professional outside of
the time that you spend withthem.
I'm really looking forward tosome amazing clients in this
series.
We talked to a barrister,family solicitor, financial
planner, divorce coach andreally hoping that you're going
to enjoy it and get a lot fromit as well.
(00:52):
Hello and welcome to the SmartDivorce Podcast.
I'm really chuffed to be joinedtoday by Elaine Richardson.
I have been badgering poorElaine for months and months and
months to get her on thepodcast because I know she's
going to be a fantastic guest.
(01:12):
Let me tell you a bit about her.
So she's been a family mediatorsince 2011.
She's an experienced familysolicitor and a collaborative
lawyer.
She's been involved in familylaw for over 30 years, and so
that gives her a huge amount ofexperience, which I know that
we'll all benefit from.
She is a member of the DisputeResolution Committee at
(01:37):
Resolution and is a well-knownspeaker and presenter and
trainer for Resolution.
She's also heavily involved inFamily Mediation Week and I know
that what we're going to learnfrom Elaine today about how she
spends her time in her week,you're not going to quite
believe that she has only thesame 24 hours in it that the
(02:00):
rest of us have.
Elaine, welcome and thank youfor joining me.
Elaine Richardson (02:05):
Thank you so much for inviting me and I'm
sorry I've been tricky to getpulled off.
Tamsin Caine (02:11):
Not at all, just very busy, lady.
That's the thing, isn't itElaine Richardson Very busy
portfolio career,Tamsin Caine: Absolutely,
absolutely.
There's one thing that I'vemissed out of your long list of
advocates that you have in yourportfolio and I think that's the
(02:32):
latest addition to your list,which is trauma informed.
Now I don't remember what theend bit of it is.
Can you tell us a bit moreabout that?
Elaine Richardson (02:46):
Yeah, that's the most recent bit of training
that I've been doing.
I'm always learning, always verykeen to learn, and don't have a
problem with continuingprofessional development CPD
points.
So this is the Scottish LawSociety's Trauma Informed Law,
informed lawyer certificationcourse that I've just completed
(03:10):
and it's well.
They're just such importantmessages and it's going to
inform every aspect of my work,because I think that trauma
really is everyone's businessand all of us are at risk,
because traumatic experiencesare far more common than we
previously believed.
So, for example, we know that29% of women across their
(03:31):
lifespan suffer domestic abuse,which is an abuse of power in a
relationship, and just to beaware that trauma and adversity
have a huge lifelong impact.
So the purpose of beingtrauma-informed is to avoid
replicating experiences of abuseand inadvertently adding
(03:52):
incidental trauma during thetime that a client is working
with you.
And similarly, atrauma-informed organization is
one which adjusts how it workswith clients as a result of this
knowledge.
So, and I think the verypositive aspect that people
don't think about is, um, thekey thing to build on resilience
(04:13):
, both, uh, for your clients andfor yourself.
Tamsin Caine (04:22):
That sounds that's why I'm I'm so interested in it
that sounds like a I was notjust a very useful piece of
training, but actually anessential piece of training to
be doing the kind of work thatwe do.
Elaine Richardson (04:32):
Yeah, I think so.
It would be really good tointroduce this more widely, and
I'm really keen to get themessage out.
I think it's definitely goingto be one of the topics that we
cover at the Future PracticeConference, which is going to
take place in Leeds in Octoberthis year, and we know that the
(04:54):
five key principles of it areempowerment, choice,
collaboration, safety and trust.
And, of course, trust has to beearned and can't be assumed.
And again, just by using thesebasic principles with everyone
by default and treating newrelationships, both personal and
(05:15):
work related, upon theassumption that they have
experienced trauma, I think it'sreally helpful.
You can't go wrong with thatreally helpful.
Tamsin Caine (05:26):
You can't, you can't go wrong with that.
Yeah, no, that sounds, thatsounds incredibly useful.
Um, something, I'll be, uh,going to look him into more
after we've finished ourconversation.
Elaine Richardson (05:32):
It's an amazingly popular course.
I mean, I often think that theum, the scots are ahead of the
game, uh, in various things, um,but there were people on my
course from Australia, fromCanada, so all over the world,
because there's a lack ofcourses at the moment on this.
Tamsin Caine (05:53):
Yeah, that must be on your list.
So I guess let's rewind alittle bit.
So your primary role from adivorce perspective I think I'm
right in saying will perhaps bein mediation.
Is that fair to say?
Elaine Richardson (06:13):
Yes, that's fair to say.
I can say that I'm not in thelitigation space anymore.
So although I am a familysolicitor, I'm still a family
solicitor.
I don't litigate.
So I've done my time in court,and so my interest now really is
(06:36):
working with a separatingcouple and to enable them to
have those very often difficultconversations that need to take
place when people are separatingAbsolutely.
Tamsin Caine (06:48):
So I'd love to talk to you a bit about how your
week looks in terms ofmediation, because I think there
are some misunderstandings, Ithink I'm going to say, around
mediation.
So and this has even come up inthe last few days in the work
(07:10):
that I do with clients in that Ihave a client who I'm working
with who has received a letterfrom a mediator, who has had a
meeting with her ex-husband andshe said well, I don't need to
see a mediator because I've donethat.
And I sort of said, well, ifyour ex is now open to mediation
(07:36):
which he perhaps wasn't at thestage that you went to see a
mediator, might it be the case,then it might be worth
revisiting that process andactually responding in a more
positive way, being that both ofthem would like to avoid the
court process.
Is that situation somethingthat you come across quite a lot
(07:58):
?
Where it's a?
I need to go to a mediationinformation meeting purely to
get a box ticked and a formsigned and a certificate issued?
Elaine Richardson (08:10):
yes, yeah, so there's um mediation.
Although it's brilliant andit's very flexible, it can be
really confusing, I think, andsometimes it can be quite
difficult to explain to clientsbecause it's so different
compared to going to court andpeople sort of know about court,
(08:34):
don't they?
And they know about courtpartly through the media.
So when you look at the scriptsfor Coronation Street and
EastEnders and whatever,there'll be far more about going
to court than there would everbe about mediation.
So I can really understand theconfusion around it.
But if I just say that it'ssplit into two different types
(08:56):
of meetings with mediation, thefirst one is the information and
assessment meeting.
So that's where you're givinginformation to the client, the
client is giving you informationand each of you, the mediator
and the client is making anassessment about whether
mediation is suitable for them.
And part of my role as mediatoris also as an educator, and so
(09:22):
I really value that as a goldenopportunity for me to to help
educate um.
But that's that's a differentmeeting, to a full mediation
meeting where you would have theseparating couple and the
mediator, because everyone'sassessed, it's suitable and so
so you can go ahead.
So, in terms of client, let'slook at what happened to your
(09:44):
client.
So your client might well havegone to a Miami as it's often
known, a mediation informationassessment meeting some time ago
, and then the other person wasinvited by the mediator to
attend and they chose not to doso at that point.
But anyone can change theirmind at any point in the future.
(10:04):
That point, but anyone canchange their mind at any point
in the future.
And, interestingly, mediationcan take place at the same time
as a court case, and a lot ofpeople don't appreciate this.
So that's what I say about theamazing flexibility of mediation
compared with going to court.
So I would be saying to yourclient oh, definitely go for it
again, just because that secondperson wasn't ready first time
(10:27):
round.
They now are ready and that'sbrilliant.
And I do think that I know thatyou're talking to Karen Walker
recently about the new changesto the family procedure rules.
I do think that that's havingan impact.
I certainly think so from thesharp end of things.
Tamsin Caine (10:43):
Yeah, it feels there's a bit of a bit more
willingness to try other thingsand, yes, and, and, even if
that's caused by the potentialof the other party having to pay
costs it.
You know, sometimes that's whatwe need to for these things to
to work.
One thing that that I oftenhear clients say about about
(11:09):
mediation who haven'texperienced it.
So people who experiencemediation have a completely
different viewpoint, but thosewho haven't experienced
mediation, they don't whollyunderstand the role of the
mediator.
Could you explain your rolewhen you're sitting?
Elaine Richardson (11:28):
down with a couple yeah, sure, so my role is
to discussing options with themand, by encouraging them to
(11:50):
adopt flexible thinking, to puttheir problem-solving hats on.
It's my process, so I'm incharge of all the administration
of it, if you like.
But I set the meetings, I sendout the Zoom invitations, so I'm
in charge of the process andthey're in charge of the
(12:12):
decision-making.
And I think that's an importantdifference to highlight,
because lots of people thinkthat because I'm a lawyer, in
some way I'm going to be givingpeople individual legal advice,
which I don't, that I'm somehowgoing to be making the decisions
for them, which I never do andno mediator would ever do that.
(12:33):
I don't put them under any sortof pressure.
So there's no pressure in termsof time or in terms of outcome,
nothing like that at all.
In fact, people are under theirown pressures.
So if I give you an examplebecause very often it's
interesting, isn't it, to talkabout examples of clients so
I've got a separating couple atthe moment and the completion on
(12:58):
the sale of their family homeis due to take place next month.
They still haven't really evenproperly started to agree the
overall financial settlement, sothey have their own time
pressures.
It's nothing that I'm notputting them under any pressure
from my perspective, but theystill have their own pressures.
And there's a sweet spot aswell between people going too
(13:23):
fast and going too slow.
It's very interesting this ideaof somebody perhaps
deliberately dragging their feetwhich scuppers the process, and
then also somebody trying torush through things.
There's a sweet spot in themiddle.
So my job is again partly to dowith pacing, to make sure the
slowest are brought up to speedand the fastest are reined back
(13:45):
a bit.
Yeah, absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (13:49):
One thing that you've, I guess, a fear in
mediation and you might say,well, if this is the case, it's
not, it wouldn't be a suitablecouple for that process but is
around.
Disclosure is around.
Are they gonna tell meeverything that you know?
(14:11):
That's there.
Are they going to fess up?
That's the wrong word, but youknow, disclose all the
financials.
Are they going to tell me upthat's the wrong word, but you
know, disclose all thefinancials.
Are they going to tell meeverything that I need to know?
Because even in, sometimes inthe most what have been
relatively trusting marriages,there is still a level of
distrust after separationbecause of other things that are
(14:33):
going on.
So it's not necessarily I thinkhe's always been hiding money,
but actually there's a distrustthere because of the
relationship breakdown andtherefore that then becomes a
distrust in lots of other areas.
How do you deal with that inmediation?
Elaine Richardson (14:51):
I think you've picked up on a really
important point, and I think wecan assume that the trust is
gone.
Yeah, it would be very unusualfor a separating couple to come
and, in fact, those are thepeople that we don't see.
Tamsin Caine (15:06):
Because they've done it themselves.
Elaine Richardson (15:08):
Because they've done it themselves.
So why would they need to seeus so working on the basis that
there is no trust and thatyou're having to build that back
up?
That's always the basis onwhich I proceed.
But in terms of disclosure,that's an interesting one.
I personally, in my practice,use for me on a voluntary basis
(15:29):
and I think a lot of othermediators do that, loads of
solicitors do that.
That can be a bit confusing aswell for a client.
You know so what you're using acourt form.
So to try.
Client, you know so what you'reusing a court form.
Um, so to try and explain tothem I'm using a court form, but
in a really nice way.
Um, I think, to start off within terms of disclosure and I'm
really fond of um, there's awonderful advice now video, or
(15:54):
that's on their website of awoman filling in a form E.
I think that's very useful.
My only word of caution is thatshe's completing it for court,
of course, whereas when you'recompleting it on a voluntary
basis, you do it slightlydifferently.
So you don't, for example, fillin Section 5 at the back,
because that's all to do withcourt orders, but anyway, so in
terms of, I use form E.
(16:15):
But I also am very keen ondisclosure and I have a separate
handout about it where I sortof read the Riot Act in a way,
and so it's so vitally importantthat you do it and really don't
imagine you can wriggle out ofit, because whichever process
you use, you will have to givefull and frank disclosure, and
(16:38):
the risk you run is that aconsent order could be
overturned, and as a litigator,as a lawyer, I have been
involved in cases like that andthey're extremely unpleasant and
very expensive.
Tamsin Caine (16:56):
So it's just not worth it.
Yeah, absolutely no, that'sspot on.
So, in terms of mediation,we've we've heard a bit about
how it is for you in mediation,but what I'd love to know is
what happens either side.
So what happens when theclients aren't in front of you?
So I'm I guess let's startfirst with what preparation do
(17:16):
you need to do other than kindof arranging the time and
sending the Zoom links?
What preparation is there, bothpractically for arranging for
the meeting, but also perhapsanything that you do personally?
I know that certain people havea good shake or have a certain
routine to get themselves in the, in the mindset for the meeting
(17:40):
.
Elaine Richardson (17:41):
OK, I'm a I'm a great believer in breathing
exercises and I do sometimesshare that with clients.
I think they might think I'mslightly bonkers, but I am.
I just think that when all elsefails, breathing exercises work
and, very interestingly, Ithink you can often have a look
(18:02):
at the way your client isbreathing.
So I know if somebody becomesreally upset and they start
taking those shallow breaths,you know from the top of their
chest that you need to get themto try and slow that down and
take deeper belly breaths.
But that, of course, applies tome as well.
So great performance ofbreathing and in order to get
(18:25):
rid of the stress that my jobsometimes causes me, I run.
So I might just finish thesession and run out to the front
door.
After the clients yes, so, butin terms of preparation, so if
we were talking about the prepoutside the meetings, starting
(18:48):
from the get-go, so somebodywill make an inquiry and that
will often come as the result ofa referral from a solicitor or
other family justiceprofessional, or they might have
found me directly on theinternet a result of a referral
from a solicitor or other familyjustice professional, or they
might have found me directly onthe internet.
So I then send out basicallyit's all the information.
I just send it as a handout andjust encourage them to get back
in touch with me.
(19:08):
When they do so, I then make anappointment for a mediation
information and assessmentmeeting so that we can have a
chat, for a mediationinformation and assessment
meeting so that we can have achat.
My pre-mediation meetings, as Ialso call them, are 90 minutes
and I send out a preliminaryinformation form.
So I really really like theclients to complete that,
(19:31):
because I always tailor makeeach process to suit the client
and it helps me so much to knowin advance what their situation
is.
And it doesn't have to be.
It's not a long-winded essay oranything and what's happened to
them, it's just some key pointsthat I need.
So that really helps.
(19:52):
You know, people sometimes havequestions before the meeting
which I try to answer, but,generally speaking, any
questions that they have.
That's the purpose of themeeting, that is the purpose of
the 90 minute get together.
So then, after that meeting, ifit's assessed as suitable, then
(20:13):
I will invite person toparticipant to do a
pre-mediation meeting.
If it's not suitable, forwhatever reason, um, and this
may be because of domestic abuseconcerns then I have the
discretion either to invite ornot invite person to um under
(20:35):
the under my professionalguidance.
But I'm very, very much awareof that.
Obviously that's one of themain purposes of a pre-mediation
meeting is to be aware and bealert to domestic abuse issues.
So then invite person to andthat often can be a bit tricky
(20:56):
if it's coming out of the blue.
It's like a bit of cold salesum technique, but I'm quite good
at converting the second person, and so then I would have a
meeting with them and then Ihave to um make the arrangements
for a mediation meeting andit's suitable.
So that means that both peoplehave to sign my agreement to
(21:17):
mediate, which is my contractbeforehand, and then we set up a
suitable meeting.
I always start my mediationmeetings with people sitting in
separate breakout rooms as amatter of course, because even
if they've told me that they'rehappy to sit together, I need to
find out how they're feeling inthat moment on that day, and so
(21:42):
then, if they decide that theywant to sit together in a
virtual room, that's a decisionthey both have to make and they
both have to be in agreement.
So then, after the meeting, Iwill do a brief summary, and I
do make the point that it's nota verbatim summary of the
meeting.
I will do a brief summary, andI do make the point that it's
not a verbatim summary of themeeting, and I really
(22:04):
concentrate on the proposalsthat people have made to each
other.
So they might be acceptableproposals, they might be
unacceptable proposals, theremight be counter proposals and
and very often it may be thatproposals have been made but no
conclusion has been reached, andwe need to pick it up again in
the next mediation meeting yeah,okay, so everything you've just
(22:30):
said sounds like all of yourmediations are done online, is
that?
Tamsin Caine (22:34):
is that the case?
Yes, yes that's right.
Yes, right, because they're notalways.
Not all mediators do even doonline mediations from what I
understand, is that the case?
Elaine Richardson (22:49):
yeah, so, um, when I first started as a
mediator, it was almost frownedupon to do it, and then the
pandemic struck and then thewhole mediation community had to
change their thinking about itand actually realize that it had
some huge, huge benefits.
So I think the furthest I'vedone so far in terms of
(23:13):
mediation is China.
I've had an inquiry just in thelast few days from New Zealand
because I've been having to workout in my head the 11 hour time
difference Obviously the UnitedStates all over Europe.
So it makes a huge differenceto be able to do it online and
it's just so convenient foreverybody and it doesn't add in
(23:35):
an extra layer of cost and time.
But some people contact me andthey want to do it in person,
and that's fine, I'm just justso convenient for everybody and
it doesn't add in an extra layerof cost and time.
But some people contact me andthey want to do it in person,
and that's fine.
I'm just not the mediator forthem, but there's plenty of
other mediators out there.
Tamsin Caine (23:45):
Yeah absolutely do you ever so occasionally I deal
with um couples rather thanrather than one or other of the
spouses and and I've a few timeshad them sitting together in
the same where they're togetherin the same room and I'm having
the meeting virtually with them.
Elaine Richardson (24:07):
Yes, do you ever have that I've had that and
how do you deal with that?
Tamsin Caine (24:10):
because that scuppers your idea of putting
them in a virtual separate room,doesn't it?
Elaine Richardson (24:17):
I mean, very fortunately, when it's happened,
it's happened, um, and I'm,having met them and assessed
them and met them a few times,I'm quite content that they are
sitting together.
I'm not concerned.
There are no abuse issues thatI am aware of, obviously, um,
but you know, some people havebeen been known to because I
(24:37):
also mediate with people sittingin vehicles.
I do quite a lot of white vans,yeah, and of course, my IT
department reliably tell me thatthe best way of of doing an
online meeting is probably onyour mobile phone rather than a
(24:58):
laptop computer, because themobile phone is more up to date
in terms of the camera and thespeakers.
So yeah, that's interestingbecause sometimes, if I get a
bad connection, I'll say can youchange over to your phone?
And it always improves things.
Tamsin Caine (25:16):
That's interesting to know, isn't it?
Yeah, that is good.
I'll bear that one in mind,because that happens all the
time.
So, in addition to mediation,you also provide supervision for
family lawyers and formediators.
Can you explain a bit aboutwhat supervision means to those
(25:40):
of us who don't have to havethat as part of our working life
?
Elaine Richardson (25:45):
Well, I think you're missing out if you don't
have supervision.
So I of course have supervision.
I have a professional practiceconsultant PPC and in turn I'm a
PPC to others.
So to PPC, and in turn I'm aPPC to others.
So under the our professionalguidance as a mediator, you have
(26:06):
to have a minimum of four hoursprofessional supervision a year
, and that's if you'reaccredited.
So if I just go back a step andexplain that, when the training
to be a mediator, you do thefoundation course, which is
lengthy, and after you finishthe course and you've
successfully completed it,you're able to mediate.
But at that stage you thenstart working towards your
(26:28):
portfolio course and yourportfolio is case studies that
you have done as a mediator, andso that might take two or three
years, possibly even slightlylonger.
Yeah, so at that point you're amediator but you're not fully
(26:48):
accredited, and so you becomefully accredited once your
portfolio has been submitted andyou've passed that.
So I'm an accredited mediatorand that means that I can sign
court forms, whereas the peoplewho are not accredited yet have
(27:12):
a mixture of mediators who areaccredited and mediators who are
not yet accredited but they'reworking towards accreditation.
So that's the supervision andthat's how much is required.
Most people who I supervise theygo above and beyond the four
hours and for the people who areworking towards accreditation,
(27:35):
they have to have additionaltime with me.
So, for example, one of thethings that they do is after
their training course, there's apost-training review that I
have with them, because this maybe the first time that I've met
that mediator and we have acouple of hours of chat and
(27:56):
conversation about the directionof travel and what's happened
so far.
So that's all very handy and Ijust have that.
I work with the most lovelypeople.
It's one of the most gloriousparts of my job actually is
working with those people who Isupervise.
And then, with a slightlydifferent hat on, I also
supervise family lawyers.
So that's not an obligatorything, it's a voluntary thing
(28:21):
and it's definitely reallytaking off, I think,
particularly with the youngerlawyers who just think that it's
such a good idea and havereally adopted it wholeheartedly
.
And again, that's aboutspending maybe an hour a month,
even an hour every couple ofmonths, with the lawyer, who's
(28:42):
able to talk to you about theircaseload, about any stresses and
strains they've got with thejob, and again, it's to help
them to manage their ownwell-being and then, in turn,
they obviously give a betterservice to the client absolutely
um, I think, I think that it's.
Tamsin Caine (29:01):
It's difficult to understand when you don't work
in in our world, just how muchof the trauma that other people
have.
That it's very easy to take onyourself.
You know, despite trying tocompartmentalize things, it's
still very difficult.
(29:21):
We meet people in in horrendoussituations sometimes who you
know.
You mentioned domestic abusebefore and I know that's one of
the the things that's very closeto your heart, very important
to you to to make sure that thatpeople who've been in domestic
abuse situations are properlylooked after.
But you know, just speaking topeople on a regular basis who
(29:44):
have, who've been subject tothose things, can be traumatic
for the professional as well,and it is really important to
have that space where you candownload and and talk it through
, if nothing else, isn't it?
Elaine Richardson (29:59):
yeah, definitely, and you know, we're
designed as human beings, uh, tosoak up emotions, and we're
particularly good at soaking upnegative emotions.
Um, because it's all to do withour sort of reptilian brain
looking out for signs of dangerand protecting ourselves.
So that's why we do it, from anevolutionary perspective.
(30:23):
But that's where it makes usquite vulnerable as family law
professionals, because of thetrauma that we're witnessing on
a daily basis absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (30:35):
It should be um supervision, should be something
that's required for all.
All professionals are workingin this space.
I think well, I believe so, butyou're preaching to the
converted there hello um, and asas a voluntary role, you also
are very heavily involved inResolution, which is the
(30:58):
community for family justiceprofessionals.
Can you tell us a bit aboutyour work with Resolution?
Elaine Richardson (31:05):
Oh yes, well, I'm very heavily involved with
Resolution.
In fact, I joined Resolution asa trainee many, many moons ago
now.
I joined Resolution as atrainee many, many moons ago now
, and then in my time I'vechaired a couple of local
branches, because there's anational committee and national
(31:28):
committees for various differentsubjects, but there are also
regional branches.
So I chaired a couple ofbranches and I'm now on the
National Dispute ResolutionCommittee and of course, that's
(31:56):
sort of is a really importantcommittee, an important part of
resolution, because one of thethings that our code of practice
, um as resolution members,encourages us to do is to reduce
or manage conflict andconfrontation, um supporting,
obviously, families to put thebest interests of children first
, um, and so that's where thedispute, the non-court dispute
(32:17):
resolution area of.
You know my practice that's sodear to my heart.
That's how it fits in withresolution membership.
Tamsin Caine (32:26):
Absolutely, and you do quite a lot of training
for resolution as well asspeaking at events and being
part of the CR committee as well, don't you?
Elaine Richardson (32:36):
Yes, so I'm also a trainer for Resolution,
so my specialist areas at themoment are domestic abuse
safeguarding and high conflict,which are very interesting areas
.
So, outside of doing clientwork, I might be writing
workshop proposals, I might bewriting slides for presentations
(32:58):
.
So there's quite a lot of workinvolved in doing that.
But again, that's a reallyinteresting part of my portfolio
career because I do get to meetan awful lot of people from
across the country in our familylaw community, so that's such a
benefit.
Yeah absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (33:20):
I'm interested in what got you involved in the
training side of things from the, from being a mediator.
Was it something that you'dalways done or is it?
Is it a more recent addition tothe portfolio?
Elaine Richardson (33:37):
it's.
It's more recent.
I think it probably follows onfrom the committee work because
when I look back I've I've justa sort of committee person I I
can remember when I was when Iwas, um, pregnant and had my
children that I was involvedwith the National Childbirth
Trust at that stage and again Iwas on the committee and so that
(34:04):
sort of followed me through.
Really I just enjoy it.
Again, it's about the people,it's about getting things done,
it's about new ideas and so thetraining really follows on from
that.
And it's what I was sayingbefore about part of your role
as a mediator is to be aneducator, and so again it really
(34:25):
fits in with that devoted toeducating people about domestic
abuse and safeguarding and beingable to protect their clients.
It's such an important thing todo.
Again, it's one of thoseessential items that we talked
(34:47):
about of being a family lawyer,because we will see domestic
abuse as a matter of course inour jobs.
So I'm training on anotherdomestic abuse course tomorrow.
I'm very happy to say it'sonline.
I think we've got 20 delegates,family lawyers from across the
(35:10):
country, and it's a tough day.
You know it's full on and it'sa difficult subject, but you
know people go away with a lotmore information and they get
the opportunity as well to talkto their colleagues and discuss
their experiences and thinkabout new ways of approaching
things, so it's very positiveabsolutely.
Tamsin Caine (35:35):
I think I'm sure I've told this story before on
the podcast, but I naively, whenI came into doing this work, um
was introduced to uh karenkipping, who you'll know.
Um, who's a who's a divorcecoach, works, works with people
who've been in domestic abusesituations and I was introduced
(35:56):
to her by a fellow financialplanner and I naively said to
her back then well, I don'tthink I'll come across this uh,
any clients.
I don't think I'll come acrossany clients who've uh who've had
, who've been in domestic abusesituations, because really I'm
looking for working with clientswho are wanting to resolve
(36:20):
things outside court and I speakto Karen quite a lot, as it
goes and unfortunately, sadly,regularly work with people
who've been victims or aresurvivors of domestic abuse and
it's considerably morewidespread than I had ever
(36:43):
anticipated or, sadly, thoughtwas possible.
And I think you said before 29%of women through their
lifetimes are likely to bevictims of domestic abuse.
I mean, that's a horrificstatistic and of course, those
people haven't necessarilyescaped the relationship at that
(37:08):
point.
Those statistics will be many,many people who are still in the
marriages or in therelationships, unfortunately.
So I think you know anythingthat we can do to recognise that
, and I think you've mentionedbefore that it's not always
recognised by the people goingthrough it until no, that's
(37:29):
right.
Elaine Richardson (37:30):
So we can often describe ourselves as
first notices, and so it happensto me regularly where I'm the
first person that would besaying to somebody who's come to
see me then what you'vedescribed to me is domestic
abuse, and domestic abuse isalways unacceptable, and that's
(37:52):
the first time they've heardsomebody describe to them that
it is domestic abuse, and it's abig thing to get your head
around.
People, though, need to feelthat their experience is
validated by professionals.
It's so important to do that.
I met with a lovely guy acouple of weeks ago, and, of
(38:14):
course, it's far more difficultfor men generally to admit that
they're victim survivors ofabuse and that there's a female
perpetrator of abuse.
Probably the statistics beliehow many men are actually victim
(38:35):
survivors, because they feel soguilty, they feel so ashamed,
and they often feel there's noone to talk to about it.
So, you know, on the coursesthat we run, we often say well,
we talk about the victimsurvivors being female.
We do that because thestatistics show us that the vast
(38:56):
majority are, but that's not tosay that we're ignoring at all
male victim survivors of abuse,and I suppose I'm so deeply
interested in this subject and Ilearn so much about it all the
time, interested in this subjectand I learn so much about it
(39:19):
all the time, and I'm sure thatKaren Kipping would agree with
me that one of the leadingexperts is a Professor, jane
Monckton-Smith, who I followavidly.
In fact, I've just done one ofher webinars and I'm about to do
some more on a course that I'vesigned up to with her.
I find it really interestingthat her take on on abuse
because, of course, when we lookback historically, we used to
(39:41):
call it domestic violencebecause that was what we could
see, you know, the black eye,the broken arm.
Um, then we, um, we changed itnow to domestic abuse rather
than violence, because weunderstand that the
psychological aspect of it.
Jane mcdonald smith goes onefurther and says that the whole
framework of abuse is coerciveand controlling behavior.
(40:03):
So ccb is is at the heart of itand everything flows from that.
Tamsin Caine (40:09):
Yeah, I think that's.
I think that's probably rightto that subject.
There is a plan for the podcastto have a series on domestic
abuse and coercive andcontrolling behaviour, because
it's so widespread and it's suchan important topic that we want
to cover.
Elaine Richardson (40:29):
That's really excellent.
I'm so glad.
I'm really glad.
Tamsin Caine (40:33):
Well, I'm hoping I'll be able to coerce you into
coming back again, but we'llhave to see, um, we're coming to
the end of our time togetherand I wondered if there was
anything that I should haveasked you, that I haven't?
Elaine Richardson (40:47):
no, I don't think so.
I think you're a really goodinterviewer, tamsin.
Your questions are verythought-provoking and spot on,
thank you.
Tamsin Caine (40:57):
Excellent.
Well, thank you so very muchfor joining me.
It's been an absolute privilegeto speak to you this afternoon
and thank you for listening.
And if you have enjoyed today'spodcast, please do leave us a
lovely five-star rating so thatwe can get these episodes out to
more people.
Many thanks, hi, and I hope youenjoyed that episode of the
(41:25):
Smart Divorce Podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
show notes for our details orgo onto the website,
wwwsmartdivorcecouk.
Also, if you are listening onapple podcasts or on spotify and
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review, that
would be fantastic.
(41:46):
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this is
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
divorce and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
It's called Separation, divorceand Dissolution UK.
(42:07):
Please do go on to Facebook,search up the group, and we'd be
delighted to have you join us.
The one thing I would say isplease answer their membership
questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
Hello and welcome to the Smart Divorce Podcast.
This is series nine, and inthis series we're going to
explore what makes up theworking week of various
different professionals who workin the divorce world.
You'll start to understand whatthey do, both during the time
that you see them, how theyprepare for meetings, and what
(00:31):
work goes into the work of adivorce professional outside of
the time that you spend withthem.
I'm really looking forward tosome amazing clients in this
series.
We talked to a barrister,family solicitor, financial
planner, divorce coach andreally hoping that you're going
to enjoy it and get a lot fromit as well.
(00:52):
Hello and welcome to the SmartDivorce Podcast.
I'm really chuffed to be joinedtoday by Elaine Richardson.
I have been badgering poorElaine for months and months and
months to get her on thepodcast because I know she's
going to be a fantastic guest.
(01:12):
Let me tell you a bit about her.
So she's been a family mediatorsince 2011.
She's an experienced familysolicitor and a collaborative
lawyer.
She's been involved in familylaw for over 30 years, and so
that gives her a huge amount ofexperience, which I know that
we'll all benefit from.
She is a member of the DisputeResolution Committee at
(01:37):
Resolution and is a well-knownspeaker and presenter and
trainer for Resolution.
She's also heavily involved inFamily Mediation Week and I know
that what we're going to learnfrom Elaine today about how she
spends her time in her week,you're not going to quite
believe that she has only thesame 24 hours in it that the
(02:00):
rest of us have.
Elaine, welcome and thank youfor joining me.
Elaine Richardson (02:05):
Thank you so much for inviting me and I'm
sorry I've been tricky to getpulled off.
Tamsin Caine (02:11):
Not at all, just very busy, lady.
That's the thing, isn't itElaine Richardson Very busy
portfolio career,Tamsin Caine: Absolutely,
absolutely.
There's one thing that I'vemissed out of your long list of
advocates that you have in yourportfolio and I think that's the
(02:32):
latest addition to your list,which is trauma informed.
Now I don't remember what theend bit of it is.
Can you tell us a bit moreabout that?
Elaine Richardson (02:46):
Yeah, that's the most recent bit of training
that I've been doing.
I'm always learning, always verykeen to learn, and don't have a
problem with continuingprofessional development CPD
points.
So this is the Scottish LawSociety's Trauma Informed Law,
informed lawyer certificationcourse that I've just completed
(03:10):
and it's well.
They're just such importantmessages and it's going to
inform every aspect of my work,because I think that trauma
really is everyone's businessand all of us are at risk,
because traumatic experiencesare far more common than we
previously believed.
So, for example, we know that29% of women across their
(03:31):
lifespan suffer domestic abuse,which is an abuse of power in a
relationship, and just to beaware that trauma and adversity
have a huge lifelong impact.
So the purpose of beingtrauma-informed is to avoid
replicating experiences of abuseand inadvertently adding
(03:52):
incidental trauma during thetime that a client is working
with you.
And similarly, atrauma-informed organization is
one which adjusts how it workswith clients as a result of this
knowledge.
So, and I think the verypositive aspect that people
don't think about is, um, thekey thing to build on resilience
(04:13):
, both, uh, for your clients andfor yourself.
Tamsin Caine (04:22):
That sounds that's why I'm I'm so interested in it
that sounds like a I was notjust a very useful piece of
training, but actually anessential piece of training to
be doing the kind of work thatwe do.
Elaine Richardson (04:32):
Yeah, I think so.
It would be really good tointroduce this more widely, and
I'm really keen to get themessage out.
I think it's definitely goingto be one of the topics that we
cover at the Future PracticeConference, which is going to
take place in Leeds in Octoberthis year, and we know that the
(04:54):
five key principles of it areempowerment, choice,
collaboration, safety and trust.
And, of course, trust has to beearned and can't be assumed.
And again, just by using thesebasic principles with everyone
by default and treating newrelationships, both personal and
(05:15):
work related, upon theassumption that they have
experienced trauma, I think it'sreally helpful.
You can't go wrong with thatreally helpful.
Tamsin Caine (05:26):
You can't, you can't go wrong with that.
Yeah, no, that sounds, thatsounds incredibly useful.
Um, something, I'll be, uh,going to look him into more
after we've finished ourconversation.
Elaine Richardson (05:32):
It's an amazingly popular course.
I mean, I often think that theum, the scots are ahead of the
game, uh, in various things, um,but there were people on my
course from Australia, fromCanada, so all over the world,
because there's a lack ofcourses at the moment on this.
Tamsin Caine (05:53):
Yeah, that must be on your list.
So I guess let's rewind alittle bit.
So your primary role from adivorce perspective I think I'm
right in saying will perhaps bein mediation.
Is that fair to say?
Elaine Richardson (06:13):
Yes, that's fair to say.
I can say that I'm not in thelitigation space anymore.
So although I am a familysolicitor, I'm still a family
solicitor.
I don't litigate.
So I've done my time in court,and so my interest now really is
(06:36):
working with a separatingcouple and to enable them to
have those very often difficultconversations that need to take
place when people are separatingAbsolutely.
Tamsin Caine (06:48):
So I'd love to talk to you a bit about how your
week looks in terms ofmediation, because I think there
are some misunderstandings, Ithink I'm going to say, around
mediation.
So and this has even come up inthe last few days in the work
(07:10):
that I do with clients in that Ihave a client who I'm working
with who has received a letterfrom a mediator, who has had a
meeting with her ex-husband andshe said well, I don't need to
see a mediator because I've donethat.
And I sort of said, well, ifyour ex is now open to mediation
(07:36):
which he perhaps wasn't at thestage that you went to see a
mediator, might it be the case,then it might be worth
revisiting that process andactually responding in a more
positive way, being that both ofthem would like to avoid the
court process.
Is that situation somethingthat you come across quite a lot
(07:58):
?
Where it's a?
I need to go to a mediationinformation meeting purely to
get a box ticked and a formsigned and a certificate issued?
Elaine Richardson (08:10):
yes, yeah, so there's um mediation.
Although it's brilliant andit's very flexible, it can be
really confusing, I think, andsometimes it can be quite
difficult to explain to clientsbecause it's so different
compared to going to court andpeople sort of know about court,
(08:34):
don't they?
And they know about courtpartly through the media.
So when you look at the scriptsfor Coronation Street and
EastEnders and whatever,there'll be far more about going
to court than there would everbe about mediation.
So I can really understand theconfusion around it.
But if I just say that it'ssplit into two different types
(08:56):
of meetings with mediation, thefirst one is the information and
assessment meeting.
So that's where you're givinginformation to the client, the
client is giving you informationand each of you, the mediator
and the client is making anassessment about whether
mediation is suitable for them.
And part of my role as mediatoris also as an educator, and so
(09:22):
I really value that as a goldenopportunity for me to to help
educate um.
But that's that's a differentmeeting, to a full mediation
meeting where you would have theseparating couple and the
mediator, because everyone'sassessed, it's suitable and so
so you can go ahead.
So, in terms of client, let'slook at what happened to your
(09:44):
client.
So your client might well havegone to a Miami as it's often
known, a mediation informationassessment meeting some time ago
, and then the other person wasinvited by the mediator to
attend and they chose not to doso at that point.
But anyone can change theirmind at any point in the future.
(10:04):
That point, but anyone canchange their mind at any point
in the future.
And, interestingly, mediationcan take place at the same time
as a court case, and a lot ofpeople don't appreciate this.
So that's what I say about theamazing flexibility of mediation
compared with going to court.
So I would be saying to yourclient oh, definitely go for it
again, just because that secondperson wasn't ready first time
(10:27):
round.
They now are ready and that'sbrilliant.
And I do think that I know thatyou're talking to Karen Walker
recently about the new changesto the family procedure rules.
I do think that that's havingan impact.
I certainly think so from thesharp end of things.
Tamsin Caine (10:43):
Yeah, it feels there's a bit of a bit more
willingness to try other thingsand, yes, and, and, even if
that's caused by the potentialof the other party having to pay
costs it.
You know, sometimes that's whatwe need to for these things to
to work.
One thing that that I oftenhear clients say about about
(11:09):
mediation who haven'texperienced it.
So people who experiencemediation have a completely
different viewpoint, but thosewho haven't experienced
mediation, they don't whollyunderstand the role of the
mediator.
Could you explain your rolewhen you're sitting?
Elaine Richardson (11:28):
down with a couple yeah, sure, so my role is
to discussing options with themand, by encouraging them to
(11:50):
adopt flexible thinking, to puttheir problem-solving hats on.
It's my process, so I'm incharge of all the administration
of it, if you like.
But I set the meetings, I sendout the Zoom invitations, so I'm
in charge of the process andthey're in charge of the
(12:12):
decision-making.
And I think that's an importantdifference to highlight,
because lots of people thinkthat because I'm a lawyer, in
some way I'm going to be givingpeople individual legal advice,
which I don't, that I'm somehowgoing to be making the decisions
for them, which I never do andno mediator would ever do that.
(12:33):
I don't put them under any sortof pressure.
So there's no pressure in termsof time or in terms of outcome,
nothing like that at all.
In fact, people are under theirown pressures.
So if I give you an examplebecause very often it's
interesting, isn't it, to talkabout examples of clients so
I've got a separating couple atthe moment and the completion on
(12:58):
the sale of their family homeis due to take place next month.
They still haven't really evenproperly started to agree the
overall financial settlement, sothey have their own time
pressures.
It's nothing that I'm notputting them under any pressure
from my perspective, but theystill have their own pressures.
And there's a sweet spot aswell between people going too
(13:23):
fast and going too slow.
It's very interesting this ideaof somebody perhaps
deliberately dragging their feetwhich scuppers the process, and
then also somebody trying torush through things.
There's a sweet spot in themiddle.
So my job is again partly to dowith pacing, to make sure the
slowest are brought up to speedand the fastest are reined back
(13:45):
a bit.
Yeah, absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (13:49):
One thing that you've, I guess, a fear in
mediation and you might say,well, if this is the case, it's
not, it wouldn't be a suitablecouple for that process but is
around.
Disclosure is around.
Are they gonna tell meeverything that you know?
(14:11):
That's there.
Are they going to fess up?
That's the wrong word, but youknow, disclose all the
financials.
Are they going to tell me upthat's the wrong word, but you
know, disclose all thefinancials.
Are they going to tell meeverything that I need to know?
Because even in, sometimes inthe most what have been
relatively trusting marriages,there is still a level of
distrust after separationbecause of other things that are
(14:33):
going on.
So it's not necessarily I thinkhe's always been hiding money,
but actually there's a distrustthere because of the
relationship breakdown andtherefore that then becomes a
distrust in lots of other areas.
How do you deal with that inmediation?
Elaine Richardson (14:51):
I think you've picked up on a really
important point, and I think wecan assume that the trust is
gone.
Yeah, it would be very unusualfor a separating couple to come
and, in fact, those are thepeople that we don't see.
Tamsin Caine (15:06):
Because they've done it themselves.
Elaine Richardson (15:08):
Because they've done it themselves.
So why would they need to seeus so working on the basis that
there is no trust and thatyou're having to build that back
up?
That's always the basis onwhich I proceed.
But in terms of disclosure,that's an interesting one.
I personally, in my practice,use for me on a voluntary basis
(15:29):
and I think a lot of othermediators do that, loads of
solicitors do that.
That can be a bit confusing aswell for a client.
You know so what you're using acourt form.
So to try.
Client, you know so what you'reusing a court form.
Um, so to try and explain tothem I'm using a court form, but
in a really nice way.
Um, I think, to start off within terms of disclosure and I'm
really fond of um, there's awonderful advice now video, or
(15:54):
that's on their website of awoman filling in a form E.
I think that's very useful.
My only word of caution is thatshe's completing it for court,
of course, whereas when you'recompleting it on a voluntary
basis, you do it slightlydifferently.
So you don't, for example, fillin Section 5 at the back,
because that's all to do withcourt orders, but anyway, so in
terms of, I use form E.
(16:15):
But I also am very keen ondisclosure and I have a separate
handout about it where I sortof read the Riot Act in a way,
and so it's so vitally importantthat you do it and really don't
imagine you can wriggle out ofit, because whichever process
you use, you will have to givefull and frank disclosure, and
(16:38):
the risk you run is that aconsent order could be
overturned, and as a litigator,as a lawyer, I have been
involved in cases like that andthey're extremely unpleasant and
very expensive.
Tamsin Caine (16:56):
So it's just not worth it.
Yeah, absolutely no, that'sspot on.
So, in terms of mediation,we've we've heard a bit about
how it is for you in mediation,but what I'd love to know is
what happens either side.
So what happens when theclients aren't in front of you?
So I'm I guess let's startfirst with what preparation do
(17:16):
you need to do other than kindof arranging the time and
sending the Zoom links?
What preparation is there, bothpractically for arranging for
the meeting, but also perhapsanything that you do personally?
I know that certain people havea good shake or have a certain
routine to get themselves in the, in the mindset for the meeting
(17:40):
.
Elaine Richardson (17:41):
OK, I'm a I'm a great believer in breathing
exercises and I do sometimesshare that with clients.
I think they might think I'mslightly bonkers, but I am.
I just think that when all elsefails, breathing exercises work
and, very interestingly, Ithink you can often have a look
(18:02):
at the way your client isbreathing.
So I know if somebody becomesreally upset and they start
taking those shallow breaths,you know from the top of their
chest that you need to get themto try and slow that down and
take deeper belly breaths.
But that, of course, applies tome as well.
So great performance ofbreathing and in order to get
(18:25):
rid of the stress that my jobsometimes causes me, I run.
So I might just finish thesession and run out to the front
door.
After the clients yes, so, butin terms of preparation, so if
we were talking about the prepoutside the meetings, starting
(18:48):
from the get-go, so somebodywill make an inquiry and that
will often come as the result ofa referral from a solicitor or
other family justiceprofessional, or they might have
found me directly on theinternet a result of a referral
from a solicitor or other familyjustice professional, or they
might have found me directly onthe internet.
So I then send out basicallyit's all the information.
I just send it as a handout andjust encourage them to get back
in touch with me.
(19:08):
When they do so, I then make anappointment for a mediation
information and assessmentmeeting so that we can have a
chat, for a mediationinformation and assessment
meeting so that we can have achat.
My pre-mediation meetings, as Ialso call them, are 90 minutes
and I send out a preliminaryinformation form.
So I really really like theclients to complete that,
(19:31):
because I always tailor makeeach process to suit the client
and it helps me so much to knowin advance what their situation
is.
And it doesn't have to be.
It's not a long-winded essay oranything and what's happened to
them, it's just some key pointsthat I need.
So that really helps.
(19:52):
You know, people sometimes havequestions before the meeting
which I try to answer, but,generally speaking, any
questions that they have.
That's the purpose of themeeting, that is the purpose of
the 90 minute get together.
So then, after that meeting, ifit's assessed as suitable, then
(20:13):
I will invite person toparticipant to do a
pre-mediation meeting.
If it's not suitable, forwhatever reason, um, and this
may be because of domestic abuseconcerns then I have the
discretion either to invite ornot invite person to um under
(20:35):
the under my professionalguidance.
But I'm very, very much awareof that.
Obviously that's one of themain purposes of a pre-mediation
meeting is to be aware and bealert to domestic abuse issues.
So then invite person to andthat often can be a bit tricky
(20:56):
if it's coming out of the blue.
It's like a bit of cold salesum technique, but I'm quite good
at converting the second person, and so then I would have a
meeting with them and then Ihave to um make the arrangements
for a mediation meeting andit's suitable.
So that means that both peoplehave to sign my agreement to
(21:17):
mediate, which is my contractbeforehand, and then we set up a
suitable meeting.
I always start my mediationmeetings with people sitting in
separate breakout rooms as amatter of course, because even
if they've told me that they'rehappy to sit together, I need to
find out how they're feeling inthat moment on that day, and so
(21:42):
then, if they decide that theywant to sit together in a
virtual room, that's a decisionthey both have to make and they
both have to be in agreement.
So then, after the meeting, Iwill do a brief summary, and I
do make the point that it's nota verbatim summary of the
meeting.
I will do a brief summary, andI do make the point that it's
not a verbatim summary of themeeting, and I really
(22:04):
concentrate on the proposalsthat people have made to each
other.
So they might be acceptableproposals, they might be
unacceptable proposals, theremight be counter proposals and
and very often it may be thatproposals have been made but no
conclusion has been reached, andwe need to pick it up again in
the next mediation meeting yeah,okay, so everything you've just
(22:30):
said sounds like all of yourmediations are done online, is
that?
Tamsin Caine (22:34):
is that the case?
Yes, yes that's right.
Yes, right, because they're notalways.
Not all mediators do even doonline mediations from what I
understand, is that the case?
Elaine Richardson (22:49):
yeah, so, um, when I first started as a
mediator, it was almost frownedupon to do it, and then the
pandemic struck and then thewhole mediation community had to
change their thinking about itand actually realize that it had
some huge, huge benefits.
So I think the furthest I'vedone so far in terms of
(23:13):
mediation is China.
I've had an inquiry just in thelast few days from New Zealand
because I've been having to workout in my head the 11 hour time
difference Obviously the UnitedStates all over Europe.
So it makes a huge differenceto be able to do it online and
it's just so convenient foreverybody and it doesn't add in
(23:35):
an extra layer of cost and time.
But some people contact me andthey want to do it in person,
and that's fine, I'm just justso convenient for everybody and
it doesn't add in an extra layerof cost and time.
But some people contact me andthey want to do it in person,
and that's fine.
I'm just not the mediator forthem, but there's plenty of
other mediators out there.
Tamsin Caine (23:45):
Yeah absolutely do you ever so occasionally I deal
with um couples rather thanrather than one or other of the
spouses and and I've a few timeshad them sitting together in
the same where they're togetherin the same room and I'm having
the meeting virtually with them.
Elaine Richardson (24:07):
Yes, do you ever have that I've had that and
how do you deal with that?
Tamsin Caine (24:10):
because that scuppers your idea of putting
them in a virtual separate room,doesn't it?
Elaine Richardson (24:17):
I mean, very fortunately, when it's happened,
it's happened, um, and I'm,having met them and assessed
them and met them a few times,I'm quite content that they are
sitting together.
I'm not concerned.
There are no abuse issues thatI am aware of, obviously, um,
but you know, some people havebeen been known to because I
(24:37):
also mediate with people sittingin vehicles.
I do quite a lot of white vans,yeah, and of course, my IT
department reliably tell me thatthe best way of of doing an
online meeting is probably onyour mobile phone rather than a
(24:58):
laptop computer, because themobile phone is more up to date
in terms of the camera and thespeakers.
So yeah, that's interestingbecause sometimes, if I get a
bad connection, I'll say can youchange over to your phone?
And it always improves things.
Tamsin Caine (25:16):
That's interesting to know, isn't it?
Yeah, that is good.
I'll bear that one in mind,because that happens all the
time.
So, in addition to mediation,you also provide supervision for
family lawyers and formediators.
Can you explain a bit aboutwhat supervision means to those
(25:40):
of us who don't have to havethat as part of our working life
?
Elaine Richardson (25:45):
Well, I think you're missing out if you don't
have supervision.
So I of course have supervision.
I have a professional practiceconsultant PPC and in turn I'm a
PPC to others.
So to PPC, and in turn I'm aPPC to others.
So under the our professionalguidance as a mediator, you have
(26:06):
to have a minimum of four hoursprofessional supervision a year
, and that's if you'reaccredited.
So if I just go back a step andexplain that, when the training
to be a mediator, you do thefoundation course, which is
lengthy, and after you finishthe course and you've
successfully completed it,you're able to mediate.
But at that stage you thenstart working towards your
(26:28):
portfolio course and yourportfolio is case studies that
you have done as a mediator, andso that might take two or three
years, possibly even slightlylonger.
Yeah, so at that point you're amediator but you're not fully
(26:48):
accredited, and so you becomefully accredited once your
portfolio has been submitted andyou've passed that.
So I'm an accredited mediatorand that means that I can sign
court forms, whereas the peoplewho are not accredited yet have
(27:12):
a mixture of mediators who areaccredited and mediators who are
not yet accredited but they'reworking towards accreditation.
So that's the supervision andthat's how much is required.
Most people who I supervise theygo above and beyond the four
hours and for the people who areworking towards accreditation,
(27:35):
they have to have additionaltime with me.
So, for example, one of thethings that they do is after
their training course, there's apost-training review that I
have with them, because this maybe the first time that I've met
that mediator and we have acouple of hours of chat and
(27:56):
conversation about the directionof travel and what's happened
so far.
So that's all very handy and Ijust have that.
I work with the most lovelypeople.
It's one of the most gloriousparts of my job actually is
working with those people who Isupervise.
And then, with a slightlydifferent hat on, I also
supervise family lawyers.
So that's not an obligatorything, it's a voluntary thing
(28:21):
and it's definitely reallytaking off, I think,
particularly with the youngerlawyers who just think that it's
such a good idea and havereally adopted it wholeheartedly
.
And again, that's aboutspending maybe an hour a month,
even an hour every couple ofmonths, with the lawyer, who's
(28:42):
able to talk to you about theircaseload, about any stresses and
strains they've got with thejob, and again, it's to help
them to manage their ownwell-being and then, in turn,
they obviously give a betterservice to the client absolutely
um, I think, I think that it's.
Tamsin Caine (29:01):
It's difficult to understand when you don't work
in in our world, just how muchof the trauma that other people
have.
That it's very easy to take onyourself.
You know, despite trying tocompartmentalize things, it's
still very difficult.
(29:21):
We meet people in in horrendoussituations sometimes who you
know.
You mentioned domestic abusebefore and I know that's one of
the the things that's very closeto your heart, very important
to you to to make sure that thatpeople who've been in domestic
abuse situations are properlylooked after.
But you know, just speaking topeople on a regular basis who
(29:44):
have, who've been subject tothose things, can be traumatic
for the professional as well,and it is really important to
have that space where you candownload and and talk it through
, if nothing else, isn't it?
Elaine Richardson (29:59):
yeah, definitely, and you know, we're
designed as human beings, uh, tosoak up emotions, and we're
particularly good at soaking upnegative emotions.
Um, because it's all to do withour sort of reptilian brain
looking out for signs of dangerand protecting ourselves.
So that's why we do it, from anevolutionary perspective.
(30:23):
But that's where it makes usquite vulnerable as family law
professionals, because of thetrauma that we're witnessing on
a daily basis absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (30:35):
It should be um supervision, should be something
that's required for all.
All professionals are workingin this space.
I think well, I believe so, butyou're preaching to the
converted there hello um, and asas a voluntary role, you also
are very heavily involved inResolution, which is the
(30:58):
community for family justiceprofessionals.
Can you tell us a bit aboutyour work with Resolution?
Elaine Richardson (31:05):
Oh yes, well, I'm very heavily involved with
Resolution.
In fact, I joined Resolution asa trainee many, many moons ago
now.
I joined Resolution as atrainee many, many moons ago now
, and then in my time I'vechaired a couple of local
branches, because there's anational committee and national
(31:28):
committees for various differentsubjects, but there are also
regional branches.
So I chaired a couple ofbranches and I'm now on the
National Dispute ResolutionCommittee and of course, that's
(31:56):
sort of is a really importantcommittee, an important part of
resolution, because one of thethings that our code of practice
, um as resolution members,encourages us to do is to reduce
or manage conflict andconfrontation, um supporting,
obviously, families to put thebest interests of children first
, um, and so that's where thedispute, the non-court dispute
(32:17):
resolution area of.
You know my practice that's sodear to my heart.
That's how it fits in withresolution membership.
Tamsin Caine (32:26):
Absolutely, and you do quite a lot of training
for resolution as well asspeaking at events and being
part of the CR committee as well, don't you?
Elaine Richardson (32:36):
Yes, so I'm also a trainer for Resolution,
so my specialist areas at themoment are domestic abuse
safeguarding and high conflict,which are very interesting areas
.
So, outside of doing clientwork, I might be writing
workshop proposals, I might bewriting slides for presentations
(32:58):
.
So there's quite a lot of workinvolved in doing that.
But again, that's a reallyinteresting part of my portfolio
career because I do get to meetan awful lot of people from
across the country in our familylaw community, so that's such a
benefit.
Yeah absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (33:20):
I'm interested in what got you involved in the
training side of things from the, from being a mediator.
Was it something that you'dalways done or is it?
Is it a more recent addition tothe portfolio?
Elaine Richardson (33:37):
it's.
It's more recent.
I think it probably follows onfrom the committee work because
when I look back I've I've justa sort of committee person I I
can remember when I was when Iwas, um, pregnant and had my
children that I was involvedwith the National Childbirth
Trust at that stage and again Iwas on the committee and so that
(34:04):
sort of followed me through.
Really I just enjoy it.
Again, it's about the people,it's about getting things done,
it's about new ideas and so thetraining really follows on from
that.
And it's what I was sayingbefore about part of your role
as a mediator is to be aneducator, and so again it really
(34:25):
fits in with that devoted toeducating people about domestic
abuse and safeguarding and beingable to protect their clients.
It's such an important thing todo.
Again, it's one of thoseessential items that we talked
(34:47):
about of being a family lawyer,because we will see domestic
abuse as a matter of course inour jobs.
So I'm training on anotherdomestic abuse course tomorrow.
I'm very happy to say it'sonline.
I think we've got 20 delegates,family lawyers from across the
(35:10):
country, and it's a tough day.
You know it's full on and it'sa difficult subject, but you
know people go away with a lotmore information and they get
the opportunity as well to talkto their colleagues and discuss
their experiences and thinkabout new ways of approaching
things, so it's very positiveabsolutely.
Tamsin Caine (35:35):
I think I'm sure I've told this story before on
the podcast, but I naively, whenI came into doing this work, um
was introduced to uh karenkipping, who you'll know.
Um, who's a who's a divorcecoach, works, works with people
who've been in domestic abusesituations and I was introduced
(35:56):
to her by a fellow financialplanner and I naively said to
her back then well, I don'tthink I'll come across this uh,
any clients.
I don't think I'll come acrossany clients who've uh who've had
, who've been in domestic abusesituations, because really I'm
looking for working with clientswho are wanting to resolve
(36:20):
things outside court and I speakto Karen quite a lot, as it
goes and unfortunately, sadly,regularly work with people
who've been victims or aresurvivors of domestic abuse and
it's considerably morewidespread than I had ever
(36:43):
anticipated or, sadly, thoughtwas possible.
And I think you said before 29%of women through their
lifetimes are likely to bevictims of domestic abuse.
I mean, that's a horrificstatistic and of course, those
people haven't necessarilyescaped the relationship at that
(37:08):
point.
Those statistics will be many,many people who are still in the
marriages or in therelationships, unfortunately.
So I think you know anythingthat we can do to recognise that
, and I think you've mentionedbefore that it's not always
recognised by the people goingthrough it until no, that's
(37:29):
right.
Elaine Richardson (37:30):
So we can often describe ourselves as
first notices, and so it happensto me regularly where I'm the
first person that would besaying to somebody who's come to
see me then what you'vedescribed to me is domestic
abuse, and domestic abuse isalways unacceptable, and that's
(37:52):
the first time they've heardsomebody describe to them that
it is domestic abuse, and it's abig thing to get your head
around.
People, though, need to feelthat their experience is
validated by professionals.
It's so important to do that.
I met with a lovely guy acouple of weeks ago, and, of
(38:14):
course, it's far more difficultfor men generally to admit that
they're victim survivors ofabuse and that there's a female
perpetrator of abuse.
Probably the statistics beliehow many men are actually victim
(38:35):
survivors, because they feel soguilty, they feel so ashamed,
and they often feel there's noone to talk to about it.
So, you know, on the coursesthat we run, we often say well,
we talk about the victimsurvivors being female.
We do that because thestatistics show us that the vast
(38:56):
majority are, but that's not tosay that we're ignoring at all
male victim survivors of abuse,and I suppose I'm so deeply
interested in this subject and Ilearn so much about it all the
time, interested in this subjectand I learn so much about it
(39:19):
all the time, and I'm sure thatKaren Kipping would agree with
me that one of the leadingexperts is a Professor, jane
Monckton-Smith, who I followavidly.
In fact, I've just done one ofher webinars and I'm about to do
some more on a course that I'vesigned up to with her.
I find it really interestingthat her take on on abuse
because, of course, when we lookback historically, we used to
(39:41):
call it domestic violencebecause that was what we could
see, you know, the black eye,the broken arm.
Um, then we, um, we changed itnow to domestic abuse rather
than violence, because weunderstand that the
psychological aspect of it.
Jane mcdonald smith goes onefurther and says that the whole
framework of abuse is coerciveand controlling behavior.
(40:03):
So ccb is is at the heart of itand everything flows from that.
Tamsin Caine (40:09):
Yeah, I think that's.
I think that's probably rightto that subject.
There is a plan for the podcastto have a series on domestic
abuse and coercive andcontrolling behaviour, because
it's so widespread and it's suchan important topic that we want
to cover.
Elaine Richardson (40:29):
That's really excellent.
I'm so glad.
I'm really glad.
Tamsin Caine (40:33):
Well, I'm hoping I'll be able to coerce you into
coming back again, but we'llhave to see, um, we're coming to
the end of our time togetherand I wondered if there was
anything that I should haveasked you, that I haven't?
Elaine Richardson (40:47):
no, I don't think so.
I think you're a really goodinterviewer, tamsin.
Your questions are verythought-provoking and spot on,
thank you.
Tamsin Caine (40:57):
Excellent.
Well, thank you so very muchfor joining me.
It's been an absolute privilegeto speak to you this afternoon
and thank you for listening.
And if you have enjoyed today'spodcast, please do leave us a
lovely five-star rating so thatwe can get these episodes out to
more people.
Many thanks, hi, and I hope youenjoyed that episode of the
(41:25):
Smart Divorce Podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
show notes for our details orgo onto the website,
wwwsmartdivorcecouk.
Also, if you are listening onapple podcasts or on spotify and
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review, that
would be fantastic.
(41:46):
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this is
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
divorce and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
It's called Separation, divorceand Dissolution UK.
(42:07):
Please do go on to Facebook,search up the group, and we'd be
delighted to have you join us.
The one thing I would say isplease answer their membership
questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
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