February 7, 2025 • 39 mins
Unlock the secrets to empowering survivors of domestic abuse as we chat with our guest Sam Fisher, the inspiring CEO of Trafford Domestic Abuse Service (TDAS). Through her personal experiences, we shed light on how TDAS supports not only Trafford residents but also those connected through work or schooling, offering crucial services under the Domestic Abuse Act.
Samantha Fisher, CEO, Trafford Domestic Abuse Service
Samantha is currently the CEO of Trafford Domestic Abuse Services (TDAS) and has dedicated her career to the voluntary sector since 2007. She holds a degree in Psychology and initially aimed to pursue a career in college teaching. However, volunteer experiences during her studies quickly revealed a strong passion for direct support work, guiding Sam’s career in a new and fulfilling direction.
A deep commitment to service-user involvement has been central to Sam’s approach, rooted in her time as a Client Inclusion Champion while serving as a Project Worker supporting homeless women facing multiple challenges. This role highlighted the importance of centring service-user voices, a principle that continues to shape her work today.
In 2010, Sam joined Team TDAS as a Refuge Support Worker and immediately knew she had found a professional home. Now leading the organisation, she feels privileged to work alongside a dedicated team, providing person-centred, empowering support to families seeking freedom from domestic abuse.
Please find below a link to the TDAS website resource page to learn more about our organisation, what we do and the services we provide.
https://www.tdas.org.uk/resources
Tamsin Caine
Tamsin is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.
You can contact Tamsin at tamsin@smartdivorce.co.uk or arrange a free initial meeting using https://bit.ly/SmDiv15min. She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK
Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
Smart Divorce Ltd
P.S. I am the co-author of “My Divorce Handbook – It’s What You Do Next That Counts”, written by divorce specialists and lawyers writing about their area of expertise to help walk you through the divorce process. You can buy it here https://yourdivorcehandbook.co.uk/buy-the-book/
To learn more about our podcast sponsor Ampla Finance – access their product guide here: https://bit.ly/3Ieqmuc
Or complete enquiry form https://bit.ly/3W4J7pz and one of the team will be in touch.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tamsin Caine (00:06):
Welcome to series 10 of the Smart Divorce Podcast.
During this series, we're goingto be speaking about the
difficult subject of domesticabuse.
Unfortunately, during my work,I come across people who are
victim survivors of domesticabuse on a far too regular basis
.
So we're going to be talking tothose who have survived
(00:30):
themselves, to professionalsworking in this area, to
solicitors, to hopefully helpyou to find the right support if
you're in that situation.
This is an issue that's notgoing away.
So if you're going through thisor you know anybody who is, I
really hope this series helpsyou.
Thanks for listening.
(00:54):
Hello and welcome to the SmartDivorce Podcast.
Today we're continuing our themeof domestic abuse, and I'm very
, very pleased to be joinedtoday by Sam Fisher from TDAS,
which is the Trafford DomesticAbuse Service, which is going to
tell us all about what theservice does, how it provides
(01:14):
help and assistance for thosewho have been in or are in
abusive relationships.
Sam, thank you so much forjoining me.
I'm gonna let you give us a bitof a: This is why I do this,
this is what I do and this ishow I've come to be in this, in
this position, because you'rethe CEO of CEDAS, aren't you?
(01:36):
So you head up the service, sogive us a bit of background on
you and and how you got to whereyou are.
Sam Fisher (01:44):
Oh, wow, thank you so much for having me first of
all, and I'm really, reallypleased to be here.
Well, I guess I mean I kind offell into the work, to be honest
.
So I originally was training tobe an educational psychologist,
um, but during my time at uni Idid some kind of um bank type
(02:07):
work at a homeless hostel insalford and I loved it,
absolutely loved it, um.
And then the opportunity cameup to work at um tdas it was
trafford Women's Aid back thenin 2010.
We changed our name a few yearsafter that, just kind of
(02:28):
breaking the barriers for maleswanting to access the service.
Yeah, and I started working inthe refuge in our family refuge
as a family support worker.
So, yeah, nearly 15 years ago,and again, loved it, absolutely
loved it.
So didn't kind of go with thecareer that I anticipated, loved
(02:52):
the support element ofeverything that it was involved
like, involved in, you know,supporting survivors through
that journey, um, and kind ofjust really got the opportunity
to progress within theorganization and became kind of
the service manager about fouryears after joining.
(03:12):
And then, in early 2017, thethen CEO left and the board said
would you like to do it on aninterim basis.
I said, yeah, only interim,because I really liked the front
line still working with people.
But yeah, yeah, that was nearlyeight years ago
Tamsin Caine (03:31):
please tell me they've given you this position
permanently now.
Sam Fisher (03:34):
Yes, yeah, that was yeah, they absolutely did, and
it was more me.
It was more because I just Iwas really conscious of not
doing front line.
I loved the interaction with,you know, survivors and their
families and um, but you know,doing this job it's still so
rewarding because you knowyou're still you're heading up
(03:55):
an organization that is changingpeople's lives.
Um, it just took me a littletime to kind of, you know, break
away from from wanting to to befrontline, but yeah, so I think
a lot of a lot of on the jobexperience, um, and then some of
the things kind of naturallycame to me in terms of, you know
, managing an organization andthe funding elements, things
(04:18):
like that.
So, um, I had really reallygood board of trustees who
believed in me and a reallyreally supportive team.
The previous CEO did a lot ofdevelopment with me as well.
So, yeah, um yeah, nearly eightyears as CEO now wow that's
amazing.
Tamsin Caine (04:35):
And am I right in saying, obviously we're talking
to you as Trafford DomesticAbuse Services, because I live
in Trafford and our business wasused to be based in Trafford
Domestic Abuse Services, becauseI live in Trafford and our
business used to be based inTrafford, although we're in
Manchester now?
Um, and you're, so you're mylocal domestic abuse service.
Am I right in saying there is adomestic abuse service
(04:56):
accessible in most, if not all,areas of the UK?
Sam Fisher (05:01):
Yeah, yeah, there is , um, what that looks like can
be different in areas.
Unfortunately, it can be alittle bit of a postcode
lotteries for survivors because,again, funding dependent I mean
everywhere has to have safeaccommodation now due to the
Domestic Abu se Act.
So every local authority willhave some form of safe
(05:23):
accommodation.
And yeah, so I mean we alsodeliver services in Salford as a
part of a partnership, which isan amazing service.
That's really kind ofcollaboration across partners
and delivering differentelements of support, and so
(05:44):
that's fantastic.
But yeah, you know, the majorityof places will have some
domestic of support.
So that's fantastic.
But yeah, the majority ofplaces will have some domestic
abuse support.
What that looks like it reallydoes depend on the area, but
there's national supporthelplines as well for people if
needed to access, and I thinkit's important to kind of get
(06:05):
across that it's not necessarilyhappening to be living in that
area for us anyway, you know,people can work in that area or
have children go to school inTrafford and we would still
support them.
Tamsin Caine (06:15):
Yeah oh, that's interesting, fabulous, okay.
So when we spoke um, when wewere talking about the
possibility of you coming on thepodcast, we talked about um, so
I think I asked you thequestion can you tell me about
the services that?
And I think about 45 minuteslater we came up for breath
(06:40):
because they you really do do soso much stuff.
So I'm gonna break it down alittle bit this time because I
feel like that question was toobig because there's so much that
she'd asked him.
So so let's start off with ifsomebody is currently in an
abusive relationship theyhaven't been able to leave, for
(07:03):
whatever reason um yet um, or itmay not even be on the card,
because they might not eventhink it's feasible for them to
leave.
So they're in currently in adomestic abuse relationship.
How can TDAS help?
How can they access yourservices safely?
Sam Fisher (07:20):
yeah, and I think that's it's really important
that you've raised that, becausethere is still some assumptions
that services won't supportpeople if they're still in an
abusive relationship.
And they absolutely will.
We do.
I mean, there's a lot ofsafeguarding and safety planning
that has to come with this, sowe do have a one kind of front
(07:42):
door approach.
So we have a support line thatis accessible for survivors and
professionals and also familyand friends, if anybody wanted
advice.
So that would be mainly thefirst port of call.
If there was no otherprofessionals involved and the
professionals wasn't making thereferral into our service, it
would be the support line.
(08:07):
Referral into our service itwould be the support line and
that can also be just for adviceand guidance at that very early
stage that you know we don'teven need to take details of the
person calling if they don'tfeel it's safe to do so.
We would always try andencourage that because obviously
it's a support.
But you know this is it's theirjourney, it's what they're you
know they're experiencing.
So it's important that we youknow it's person-centered and we
follow their lead.
So initially, yeah, contact thesupport line for advice or
(08:32):
guidance and support, and we dohave other avenues.
So you know people can go onour website and use the contact
form.
Then there's we do have socialmedia and we wouldn't always
encourage victims to use that asthe first call to contact.
But if it's the only safe wayto do so, then again you know
(08:52):
that could be picked up fromthere.
But ultimately it would becontact our support line.
For that initial advice andguidance brilliant and and to
keep them safe.
It is always possible to use afriend's phone mobile number,
computer address, email addresswhatever, and we would always,
(09:15):
always ask safe times to contact, if it is even safe to.
You know, we do have, we dosupport some survivors.
Where we we just can't contactthem, we have to wait until they
contact us again.
Um, so it's yeah, the safetyelement of it is key and it's
vital.
So we have to.
Initially, before any adviceand support is given, the safety
(09:38):
is the main topic ofconversation in how we can
communicate.
Tamsin Caine (09:41):
How can we make sure that we can provide that
guidance, that support, thatadvice, in a safe way that
doesn't put them at further risk, of course, and if the victim
does want to leave, does want tocut ties, are TDAS able to help
them to do that and in whatways can they help them to do
(10:02):
that and in what ways can theyhelp them to do that?
Because I know, I've heard,unfortunately, victim survivors
take say to me that people havejust gone.
Well, why don't you just leave?
And we know that, why don't youjust leave?
Is it's just, it's not assimple as that?
Because there's, there's money,there's, where do you go?
(10:24):
There's will they be safe ifthey do leave?
There's the and and there areother things tying them to
staying in the relationship andstaying, staying where they are,
and it isn't as straightforwardas it's just.
Why don't you leave?
So so, just back in track again, because I've got myself
(10:45):
talking then and we'll get backto the question.
So so, can you help peopleleave and, if so, how do you
support them too?
Sam Fisher (10:53):
yes, absolutely, um, we can.
We can support again, safetyplanning and risk management is
key.
So there would be a, you know,a real in-depth piece of work on
what that would look like allthe things that you just spoke
about that people have tonavigate.
They have to consider, in termsof their children, it depends
(11:14):
on whether they want to leaveand look for elsewhere to live,
whether that be a refuge,whether that be to go and stay
with family and friends, orwhether they want support in
obtaining relevant orders orkind of putting target hardening
interventions on the property.
You know, if the you know theperpetrator if it's not a
perpetrator's house, for example, they want to end the
(11:35):
relationship or, um, so it's.
It's really each individual caseneeds to be treated as an
individual case becauseeverybody's dynamics and what
they've got to deal with arecompletely different.
But the key is that that safetyplanning and that risk
management have they goteverything they need?
Sometimes they just can't,sometimes they need to just go
(11:55):
and then, once they're out ofthat situation, we can still
support them to maybe thenobtain stuff that they need to
get from the property if they'vehad to leave, stuff that they
need to get from the property ifthey've had to leave, um
because but going back to what Iknow you said, you digress, but
it's so, it's so key that likewe really need to change that
narrative of why don't we justleave?
And it's like, well, why don'tthey just stop?
(12:16):
That's the question that youknow should be asked, because
you know how hard is it to leavea non-abusive relationship with
the amount of things you've gotto think about.
So when you add abuse into thatmix, it's so difficult, um, and
that's why that you know the oursupport staff that's the other
priority is their safety, andthey will.
We need to make sure that it'snot rushed.
(12:38):
Sometimes it needs to be,sometimes they need to leave
immediately, but if you know ifit's safe for them to do this in
a real planned way, that wouldalways be the advice.
And because you know survivors,the risk does heighten when
they end the relationship.
So you know that safety plan isabsolutely key
yeah, absolutely, and I thinkwhat?
(12:59):
I think that that question thatyou, that makes you and me
shiver, because it's not thatsimple.
If you're not involved in thiswork, if you haven't worked or
been an observer of Victims 5,it does feel like a
(13:20):
straightforward thing to do Justget out, just go and stay with
family, just go and stay withfriends, just get out.
And the problem is, I think,what a lot of people don't
understand, is that thatdomestic abuse is about control
and the perpetrators arecontrolling everything and what
they tend to have done isisolated their partner from
(13:45):
friends, from family, fromfinances, from having a job,
even in a lot of cases.
So they don't have that networkof people that people in a
non-abuse relationship have andtherefore it feels very
straightforward to go.
Why don't you just leave?
But actually there are so manyreasons why people, that's not
(14:07):
possible and it am I right inthinking that, um, it takes um,
uh, something like seven timesfor an, on average, to leave an
abusive relationship.
Is that a figure you've heard,or?
it's probably more on average, right, yeah, okay,
and, and that, and then figuresdo differ a little bit depending
(14:29):
on whether people are deemedhigh risk.
I mean, we have to, you know,in this sector we have.
You know that is how you knowwe manage the support that we
offer.
You know we complete riskassessments and people are
deemed high risk or medium risk.
But I think what we also needto remember is risk is fluid,
(14:54):
fluid and you know, and everyeverybody experiences domestic
abuse deserves that safety andsupport um, to play, um or to
end a relationship if that'swhat they wish to do.
So, um, but yeah, it is, it isreally difficult with, and it's
it's only around education, andyou know, it's not that,
although, yeah, it does make us,you know, shiver when we hear
them questions, but it is justan education piece, isn't it?
In terms of, you know, andthat's why it's so vital that
(15:18):
things like this happen for thepublic to see, because it's just
making that increase in thatawareness.
Because you know we should, weshould be educating everybody on
the dynamics of domestic abuseand on them, you know, changing
the narrative and the typicalthings that we hear people say,
and you know, going back to theisolation.
Yeah, that does happen a lot.
(15:39):
You know we have a lot ofsurvivors that come to us and
they've got no support networkand it's a reason why they've
stayed in that relationship forso long and that they might not
be able to lead.
You know fair-for-traitors areexpert manipulators.
You know to the outside worldthey may be the best thing ever
because you know they hide it sowell.
So it is about that, thefeeling that survivors often,
(16:03):
you know, feel in terms of theguilt, the shame, the worry.
Where will they be believed?
What about the children?
Like you say, the finances?
Like you say the finances, yourfinancial abuse is just.
We see that time and time again,um, that she uses a means of
control for them to stay in thatrelationship, um.
So I think it's it's just sovital that we do educate people
(16:26):
on the difficulties, um, and welaunched not long ago our
friends and family toolkit onthis basis.
We've got a kind of section onour website.
It's got it's like a resourcetoolkit for friends and family
on just the right things to say,the right things to do.
Where to um signpost yourfriend or your family member who
(16:48):
might be experiencing it, to goto um, because they might be
the first person that somebodydiscloses to or they might not
even disclose what that familyor you know friend has got kind
of them, concerns thatsomething's going on, which is
why the support line's availablefor people to access that
(17:08):
advice as well.
Um.
Tamsin Caine (17:10):
So yeah, I think that's the piece of work we're
really proud of being able to tolaunch recently, because it's
so key that we can support thepeople around the survivor as
well absolutely, because, let'sbe honest, if one in four women
and is it one in seven or one ineight men are victims of
(17:31):
domestic abuse, we all knowpeople, we all have friends in
our networks, we all have familymembers who are in this
situation.
So we do need to change thenarrative and hopefully, you
know there's lots of us who arecertainly trying to do that.
You know there's lots of us whoare certainly trying to do that
(17:54):
.
So, moving on, let's talk aboutthe post-separation, because
there is this urban myth thatonce you've left, everything
will be all right, which is whythere's this.
Why don't you just leave?
Because everything will be fineonce you've left and the
relationship's over.
But post-separation abuse is,in some ways, even worse than
(18:15):
the abuse that was happeningwhen you were in the
relationship, because it seemsto, in many cases, really ramp
up once the relationship's over.
So how can you support somebodywho's left the relationship,
even if they're not in therefuge or being supported by you
for the leaving process?
Sam Fisher (18:36):
Yeah, again, it'll be really person-centred around
what that individual needs.
But we would support if therewas housing that they needed to
look at.
You know housing options or,like I said before, again, you
know the target hardening ifthey needed certain things put
on their property to make themfeel safe.
We have group programmes thatpeople can access, which is with
(19:00):
, you know, other survivors.
And again, when you've beenisolated and you feel like you
know you've got this guilt andshame them, environments can
often be really comforting.
They can be quite uncomfortablein the first session or two but
after a bit, like you've gotthat peer support.
And we have that for childrenand young people as well,
because you know we have toremember if these children
(19:21):
they're they're you know they'revictims in their own right.
They've experienced domesticabuse and you know as well um,
but we support with um, you know, any financial support that
they might need, whether that be, you know, if they've had to
leave a job or they have toreduce hours or they need to now
apply for benefits, we cansupport with that and any legal
(19:45):
kind of advice and support.
So we we try and work withlocal solicitors, firms that can
offer like free 30 minuteappointments to get that advice,
because not everybody,especially if they've, you know,
experienced financial abuse,can afford sure, fees, which is
really it is a real challenge atthe moment.
Um, and then we can, you know,we can support with if they've
(20:08):
had to move area, so we cansupport with helping them set up
in that new area, with all that, maybe their physical needs
that they may have.
I mean, it's the list's endless.
We know we work really well, wecollaborate with a lot of really
good partners who can supportand provide that holistic offer
and so they can start theirjourney of, you know, breaking
(20:29):
free from domestic abuse.
But it can be a lengthy processand especially if you, you know
there's proceedings and there's, you know, courts and practical
help in whatever way they mayfeel is is right for them at
(20:56):
that time.
Because again, everybody'spriorities are different at that
point.
Um, it might be they need newschool places for their children
or they need to put safetymeasures in place at the current
school.
I mean there's so manydifferent things that you know
we we can support with um andand advise and advocate.
Um, and advocacy is a big one.
(21:18):
So we do advocate a lot withother professionals if there's
other professionals involved, umyou know, with with the, um the
family, um, yeah, it's a wholehost of things.
Real person-centred supportplan on both practical and
emotional aspects of their lifeAmazing.
Tamsin Caine (21:38):
And I think one of the important things that I've
picked up from talking to you isthat you're going to know
things that the victim survivormight not think about.
You know, there are areas thatdon't necessarily cross your
mind when you've been goingthrough all this stuff, that
(22:00):
your experience will say well,what about this, what about this
, what about this?
Are these things that are goingto impact you?
And that helps to put things inplace before the issues start
and it's more.
It's kind of preventativereally, rather than kind of
reacting to to what's happened,and so I think that's really
(22:20):
important.
You've used term a couple oftimes that I have no idea what
it means, so I'm going to askyou I think it's target
hardening.
Oh yeah, sorry, yeah, sorry, doyou know something
, that's all right .
No, don't worry, I was just like.
I have no idea what that means.
So I'm going to ask
Sam Fisher (22:35):
.
Yeah, I mean, honestly, there'sso many things.
We love an acronym as well, soif any of that comes out, please
do let me know.
When you're in it, you justkind of assume something like
that no, no, not at all.
So target hardening, so that isthat they are kind of measures
(22:56):
that you would put on a propertythat um could include um window
locks, um a safe, um fire guardon a letterbox.
It's all about safety aspectsfor a property where a victim
survivor would like to stay inthe property um, so it might be
um security lights, securityalarms, um.
So yeah, I mean there's not muchfunding for it specifically and
(23:18):
we work quite closely with ourcommunity safety team, um, and
we do also raise, you know, dosome fundraising campaigns for
them specific things, but it'sall about security and safety of
a, of a property all right.
Tamsin Caine (23:32):
Well, didn't even know that was a thing.
Sam Fisher (23:35):
That's amazing everybody wants to leave do that
.
That's the biggest thing.
They want to be able to stay intheir own home and be safe.
You know, you know refuges yeahthey are.
You know they're a vital, vitalservice.
But if we can help somebodystay safely in their own home,
then that's what we, you know wewould want to do.
Tamsin Caine (23:54):
Yeah absolutely, absolutely.
I totally get that.
That makes complete sense.
Um, how, how long so?
And this might be how long is apiece of string, but how long
do you tend to work can carry onworking with people?
Is it just until theeverything's kind of I'm saying
(24:17):
just everything's sorted, interms of, obviously, a lot of
relationships and marriages orcivil partnerships, is it until,
or is it until like like howlong?
Or could it be years and years,because they need ongoing
support, because actually thingsare still going on well after
(24:39):
everything's resolved.
Sam Fisher (24:40):
You know our services are trauma-informed.
You know we want to offer thesupport for as long as we
possibly can to enable them tocope, and we don't often say
recover, you know, because noteverybody does.
Everybody kind of just learnsto cope with what they've been
through, but that's theirjourney.
(25:00):
So our services, because weoffer so many different kind of
projects and different ways thatpeople can access support, they
could be within our you know.
Know, in our service for youknow, two years, um, I mean the
average is probably around sixmonths, um, on a kind of
(25:22):
outreach basis.
When we talk aboutaccommodation, it's a little bit
more complex because there'sthings external out of our
control for them.
You know your additionalhousing.
But in terms of in thecommunity, yeah, that is on our
books.
Some people will be accessingour service for 12 months, if
not more, but that might lookdifferent.
(25:45):
So it might be that when theyfirst come to our service
they're supported, you know, byone of our domestic abuse
advisors who help them with thatinitial safety planning, the
risk management we do.
We sit down and do supportplans with all our survivors.
That is real person-centered tothem, so it highlights the
(26:06):
areas they want support with.
Then, once we've kind of lookedat them, we've put them
interventions in place and theymay no longer be in crisis as we
, you know, as we say um, thenit might be that they would
attend one of our group programs, um, which is a six-week, you
(26:27):
know, program on on kind of thethe realities of domestic abuse,
with the aim of, you know,reducing that social isolation,
being around people who are in,you know, similar, you know
situations or have experiencedsimilar things.
Their children then may want toaccess some of the group
(26:47):
programmes or have, you know,one-to-one support with our
children and people's workers.
I think the one thing that doesdetermine the length often is
when there's court proceedingsand because of the delays in
them.
But we have a really um, afantastic volunteer service.
We have the most amazingvolunteers um that dedicate
(27:10):
their time, um to our servicewho can once, once a lot of the
crisis intervention and the riskfor that individual is reduced.
It might be that our volunteerthen continues some of that
support and then if there iscourt proceedings, for example,
then our workers can step backin when the court hearing and
(27:33):
when they need support with that.
So it can really depend.
But I think we don't likeputting a time limit on it.
I think, historically, thereused to be such a big emphasis
on outputs instead of outcomes,and it was like, how many people
can you support in 12 months?
And it's like, well, it's notjust about you know, these are
(27:55):
people.
They people, they're notnumbers.
We need to be making sure thatthey're in a place where they
understand about domestic abuse,they recognize the warning
signs and they're less likely toenter an abusive relationship
again in the future.
And, even if they do, they knowwhat to do in that situation,
(28:19):
in that situation.
So I think we need to be ableto offer an intervention for as
long as we can to prevent thatcycle from repeating um, yeah,
which is why having so manydifferent elements of the
service is is just brilliant,because people can choose what's
right for them at what time.
Yeah, oh absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (28:39):
You mentioned about um court proceedings and
about your workers.
Um, perhaps coming back in whenthere's court proceedings, how
do you support people who arewho are in court proceedings?
Sam Fisher (28:50):
so our staff, um, where capacity allows, we would
always try and they would help,you know, attend court with them
.
We have to remember it varies aswell for each individual person
because, you know, if there'snot a criminal conviction, then
that can be really difficult,especially if there's like
divorce proceedings.
(29:11):
Um, again, you know, childarrangements.
So we, you know, we'll helpthem with attending court and,
you know, and being there as asupport for them if, if they
require, we would link them inwith our local solicitors firm
to get that, initially, thatadvice and support.
Um, it's yeah, it's just it isa lengthy process though, uh,
(29:36):
and that's why having, that'swhy having that volunteer
service really helps book for inbetween that time.
So they're still getting thatongoing emotional support, but
they would help them with, ifthey wanted support, with kind
of any statements that they needto give or any arrangements for
attendance at court.
You know, sometimes survivorsdon't want to be like, visible
(29:59):
in a courtroom with theperpetrator there.
So liaising, yeah, liaising,you know, with all the other
professionals involved in thatto support that process, um,
yeah, and just being thatadvocate with other
professionals and just so theirvoice is heard.
Tamsin Caine (30:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
That is fantastic, and justbefore we started recording, we
were talking about yourincredible lunchtime learning
sessions.
So tell us a little bit moreabout those, who they're aimed
at and what your aims are forfor running those series.
Sam Fisher (30:36):
Yeah, so one of our key objectives is to raise the
public's awareness aboutdomestic abuse Like it is
everybody's business.
It really is, and that's not tosay that everybody needs to be
a specialist in it, and it'sabout just having that awareness
.
You know, like you said before,about changing the narrative
(30:57):
and knowing what's not to say.
You know, like you said before,about changing the narrative
and knowing what's not to say.
You know um and just and whereto signpost to.
So we we offer professionalstraining in trafford um for
trafford um professionals,volunteers, the community um and
the they.
We've got quite a large libraryof what we offer.
(31:18):
So we have domestic abuseawareness.
We do a session on civil ordersthere's so many different ones
but we have a lot of lunch andlearns.
So they're like 30 minutes, 45minutes, and they cover so many
different topics that be housingstalking, one specifically on
(31:41):
gaslighting.
I mean, even at christmas we doone around domestic abuse and
christmas and the impact of andthe.
You know the correlationbetween certain um things for
that time of year, um.
And yeah, the aim is just toeducate as many people as
possible on domestic abuse indifferent areas of what, because
it's so complex.
(32:03):
I mean, we did say, before westarted recording as well, that
we could literally probably talkfor a week about all the you
know the aspects and the issuesand the challenges and you know,
and the rewards and the goodthings that come, you know, for
survivors and the rewards andthe good things that come for
survivors, but them Lunch andLearn.
They're free, people can accessthem through our website and,
(32:28):
yeah, I just encourage as manypeople to take the time out and
see which ones they feel areright fit, what they want to
learn more about and yeah, sothat's kind of the key aim is to
raise that awareness.
That's thanks to funding fromTrafford Council as well, who
really are, you know, theyreally really want to educate
the whole of Trafford ondomestic abuse, which is why
(32:49):
we're able to offer that forfree as well.
Tamsin Caine (32:51):
Excellent, well done Trafford Council.
God, I know that's amazing.
So, other than the awarenessand the learning for the general
public, I know you also have umservices for professionals who
who work with victim survivorson a regular basis, people like
myself, people like umsolicitors, divorce coaches, etc
(33:14):
.
What's available to them?
And also how?
How do they?
Because I know that they canrefer somebody to your services
if they feel that they theywould benefit from that.
So can you talk to us a bitabout how they would refer
somebody as well?
Sam Fisher (33:29):
yeah.
So, again, we that could eitherbe through the support line if
they wanted to call us or on ourwebsite, um, they could just
signpost somebody so they couldgive you know, a survivor,
victim survivor, our details andall all the information is on
our website in terms ofreferrals into our service.
(33:50):
If, if people know exactly whatservice they want to access,
then they can do that.
But a lot of the time it mightbe they, yeah, yeah, and then we
determine maybe what service itis that might be be right for
them.
Um, but we, we do have atraining offer for corporates as
well, um, because, again, Imean, unfortunately this one
(34:15):
isn't funded.
So there is, you know, know,there is a charge for it, but we
said before, didn't?
We around you know one in fourwomen, one in six men, so it's
happening within your workplace.
You know the amount of timethat's lost, you know, due to
because domestic abuse happeningand it affects people's ability
to work, people's ability to towork and that.
(34:41):
So we have a corporate offer aswell, where we and it's really
bespoke to up to organizationsand it's around supporting
whether that be line managers orthe HR team, around how to
support somebody within yourorganization who might be
experiencing domestic abuse andhow to you know, make sure
you've got a domestic abusepolicy in place, how you
communicate that you willsupport people within your
(35:01):
workplace who are experiencingdomestic abuse.
So that's you know.
That's key as well for peopleto have that awareness, because
it might be your staff thatyou're referring into or it's
not somebody you're workingdirectly with.
Tamsin Caine (35:16):
Absolutely.
It's massively important.
As always, we're coming to theend of our time together.
I knew this would fly and we'dend up wishing we'd got service
yeah, all time, but have Imissed anything?
Is there anything else that youwant to let us know about?
Sam Fisher (35:33):
that tdash does no, I think we've've covered.
I mean, again, we haveaccommodation services and I
spoke about the outreach and Ithink I mean I guess the main
thing is around that awarenessraising and the fact that our
services are available forprofessionals and family and
friends and people who may beconcerned and just want some
(35:56):
advice.
I think that's a big thing toget out there, that we are there
to give advice to other peoplewho may be concerned about
somebody else.
I think we have to remember weare not going to be the first
service somebody comes to who isexperiencing domestic abuse.
We're just not so.
That's why it is so importantthat people are aware about what
(36:18):
domestic abuse is, how it canaffect people and where to
signpost to or ring for someadvice and support.
Tamsin Caine (36:26):
Yeah, absolutely Massively appreciate you joining
me, sam.
Thank you so much, and all thedetails for contacting TDAS will
be in the show notes forcontacting TDAS will be in the
show notes.
If you or somebody that youknow is experiencing domestic
abuse, whether it's pre or postseparation, please do reach out
to them.
If TDAS isn't your localservice, then please do get on
(36:49):
Google.
I think there's an app I'm suresomebody told me the other day,
I think it's called Bright Sky.
Does that ring a bell to you?
Is that one?
And I think you can look upyour local domestic abuse
service on there.
Obviously, only download theapp on your phone if it's safe
to do so.
If not, please get a friend todo it.
And yeah, thank you, sam.
(37:10):
Thank you for having me.
My pleasure, thank you forjoining us, and if you have
found this useful, then pleasedo um give us a five-star rating
, and that enables us to getthis information out to further
and wider, to more people.
So many thanks, hi, and I hopeyou enjoyed that episode of the
(37:37):
Smart Divorce Podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
show notes for our details orgo onto the website
wwwsmartdivorcecouk.
Also, if you are listening onApple Podcasts or on Spotify and
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review.
That would be fantastic.
(37:58):
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this is
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
divorce and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
It's called SeparationDivolution uk.
(38:20):
Please do go on to facebook,search up the group and we'd be
delighted to have you join us,and the one thing I would say is
do please answer theirmembership questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
Bye.
Welcome to series 10 of the Smart Divorce Podcast.
During this series, we're goingto be speaking about the
difficult subject of domesticabuse.
Unfortunately, during my work,I come across people who are
victim survivors of domesticabuse on a far too regular basis
.
So we're going to be talking tothose who have survived
(00:30):
themselves, to professionalsworking in this area, to
solicitors, to hopefully helpyou to find the right support if
you're in that situation.
This is an issue that's notgoing away.
So if you're going through thisor you know anybody who is, I
really hope this series helpsyou.
Thanks for listening.
(00:54):
Hello and welcome to the SmartDivorce Podcast.
Today we're continuing our themeof domestic abuse, and I'm very
, very pleased to be joinedtoday by Sam Fisher from TDAS,
which is the Trafford DomesticAbuse Service, which is going to
tell us all about what theservice does, how it provides
(01:14):
help and assistance for thosewho have been in or are in
abusive relationships.
Sam, thank you so much forjoining me.
I'm gonna let you give us a bitof a: This is why I do this,
this is what I do and this ishow I've come to be in this, in
this position, because you'rethe CEO of CEDAS, aren't you?
(01:36):
So you head up the service, sogive us a bit of background on
you and and how you got to whereyou are.
Sam Fisher (01:44):
Oh, wow, thank you so much for having me first of
all, and I'm really, reallypleased to be here.
Well, I guess I mean I kind offell into the work, to be honest
.
So I originally was training tobe an educational psychologist,
um, but during my time at uni Idid some kind of um bank type
(02:07):
work at a homeless hostel insalford and I loved it,
absolutely loved it, um.
And then the opportunity cameup to work at um tdas it was
trafford Women's Aid back thenin 2010.
We changed our name a few yearsafter that, just kind of
(02:28):
breaking the barriers for maleswanting to access the service.
Yeah, and I started working inthe refuge in our family refuge
as a family support worker.
So, yeah, nearly 15 years ago,and again, loved it, absolutely
loved it.
So didn't kind of go with thecareer that I anticipated, loved
(02:52):
the support element ofeverything that it was involved
like, involved in, you know,supporting survivors through
that journey, um, and kind ofjust really got the opportunity
to progress within theorganization and became kind of
the service manager about fouryears after joining.
(03:12):
And then, in early 2017, thethen CEO left and the board said
would you like to do it on aninterim basis.
I said, yeah, only interim,because I really liked the front
line still working with people.
But yeah, yeah, that was nearlyeight years ago
Tamsin Caine (03:31):
please tell me they've given you this position
permanently now.
Sam Fisher (03:34):
Yes, yeah, that was yeah, they absolutely did, and
it was more me.
It was more because I just Iwas really conscious of not
doing front line.
I loved the interaction with,you know, survivors and their
families and um, but you know,doing this job it's still so
rewarding because you knowyou're still you're heading up
(03:55):
an organization that is changingpeople's lives.
Um, it just took me a littletime to kind of, you know, break
away from from wanting to to befrontline, but yeah, so I think
a lot of a lot of on the jobexperience, um, and then some of
the things kind of naturallycame to me in terms of, you know
, managing an organization andthe funding elements, things
(04:18):
like that.
So, um, I had really reallygood board of trustees who
believed in me and a reallyreally supportive team.
The previous CEO did a lot ofdevelopment with me as well.
So, yeah, um yeah, nearly eightyears as CEO now wow that's
amazing.
Tamsin Caine (04:35):
And am I right in saying, obviously we're talking
to you as Trafford DomesticAbuse Services, because I live
in Trafford and our business wasused to be based in Trafford
Domestic Abuse Services, becauseI live in Trafford and our
business used to be based inTrafford, although we're in
Manchester now?
Um, and you're, so you're mylocal domestic abuse service.
Am I right in saying there is adomestic abuse service
(04:56):
accessible in most, if not all,areas of the UK?
Sam Fisher (05:01):
Yeah, yeah, there is , um, what that looks like can
be different in areas.
Unfortunately, it can be alittle bit of a postcode
lotteries for survivors because,again, funding dependent I mean
everywhere has to have safeaccommodation now due to the
Domestic Abu se Act.
So every local authority willhave some form of safe
(05:23):
accommodation.
And yeah, so I mean we alsodeliver services in Salford as a
part of a partnership, which isan amazing service.
That's really kind ofcollaboration across partners
and delivering differentelements of support, and so
(05:44):
that's fantastic.
But yeah, you know, the majorityof places will have some
domestic of support.
So that's fantastic.
But yeah, the majority ofplaces will have some domestic
abuse support.
What that looks like it reallydoes depend on the area, but
there's national supporthelplines as well for people if
needed to access, and I thinkit's important to kind of get
(06:05):
across that it's not necessarilyhappening to be living in that
area for us anyway, you know,people can work in that area or
have children go to school inTrafford and we would still
support them.
Tamsin Caine (06:15):
Yeah oh, that's interesting, fabulous, okay.
So when we spoke um, when wewere talking about the
possibility of you coming on thepodcast, we talked about um, so
I think I asked you thequestion can you tell me about
the services that?
And I think about 45 minuteslater we came up for breath
(06:40):
because they you really do do soso much stuff.
So I'm gonna break it down alittle bit this time because I
feel like that question was toobig because there's so much that
she'd asked him.
So so let's start off with ifsomebody is currently in an
abusive relationship theyhaven't been able to leave, for
(07:03):
whatever reason um yet um, or itmay not even be on the card,
because they might not eventhink it's feasible for them to
leave.
So they're in currently in adomestic abuse relationship.
How can TDAS help?
How can they access yourservices safely?
Sam Fisher (07:20):
yeah, and I think that's it's really important
that you've raised that, becausethere is still some assumptions
that services won't supportpeople if they're still in an
abusive relationship.
And they absolutely will.
We do.
I mean, there's a lot ofsafeguarding and safety planning
that has to come with this, sowe do have a one kind of front
(07:42):
door approach.
So we have a support line thatis accessible for survivors and
professionals and also familyand friends, if anybody wanted
advice.
So that would be mainly thefirst port of call.
If there was no otherprofessionals involved and the
professionals wasn't making thereferral into our service, it
would be the support line.
(08:07):
Referral into our service itwould be the support line and
that can also be just for adviceand guidance at that very early
stage that you know we don'teven need to take details of the
person calling if they don'tfeel it's safe to do so.
We would always try andencourage that because obviously
it's a support.
But you know this is it's theirjourney, it's what they're you
know they're experiencing.
So it's important that we youknow it's person-centered and we
follow their lead.
So initially, yeah, contact thesupport line for advice or
(08:32):
guidance and support, and we dohave other avenues.
So you know people can go onour website and use the contact
form.
Then there's we do have socialmedia and we wouldn't always
encourage victims to use that asthe first call to contact.
But if it's the only safe wayto do so, then again you know
(08:52):
that could be picked up fromthere.
But ultimately it would becontact our support line.
For that initial advice andguidance brilliant and and to
keep them safe.
It is always possible to use afriend's phone mobile number,
computer address, email addresswhatever, and we would always,
(09:15):
always ask safe times to contact, if it is even safe to.
You know, we do have, we dosupport some survivors.
Where we we just can't contactthem, we have to wait until they
contact us again.
Um, so it's yeah, the safetyelement of it is key and it's
vital.
So we have to.
Initially, before any adviceand support is given, the safety
(09:38):
is the main topic ofconversation in how we can
communicate.
Tamsin Caine (09:41):
How can we make sure that we can provide that
guidance, that support, thatadvice, in a safe way that
doesn't put them at further risk, of course, and if the victim
does want to leave, does want tocut ties, are TDAS able to help
them to do that and in whatways can they help them to do
(10:02):
that and in what ways can theyhelp them to do that?
Because I know, I've heard,unfortunately, victim survivors
take say to me that people havejust gone.
Well, why don't you just leave?
And we know that, why don't youjust leave?
Is it's just, it's not assimple as that?
Because there's, there's money,there's, where do you go?
(10:24):
There's will they be safe ifthey do leave?
There's the and and there areother things tying them to
staying in the relationship andstaying, staying where they are,
and it isn't as straightforwardas it's just.
Why don't you leave?
So so, just back in track again, because I've got myself
(10:45):
talking then and we'll get backto the question.
So so, can you help peopleleave and, if so, how do you
support them too?
Sam Fisher (10:53):
yes, absolutely, um, we can.
We can support again, safetyplanning and risk management is
key.
So there would be a, you know,a real in-depth piece of work on
what that would look like allthe things that you just spoke
about that people have tonavigate.
They have to consider, in termsof their children, it depends
(11:14):
on whether they want to leaveand look for elsewhere to live,
whether that be a refuge,whether that be to go and stay
with family and friends, orwhether they want support in
obtaining relevant orders orkind of putting target hardening
interventions on the property.
You know, if the you know theperpetrator if it's not a
perpetrator's house, for example, they want to end the
(11:35):
relationship or, um, so it's.
It's really each individual caseneeds to be treated as an
individual case becauseeverybody's dynamics and what
they've got to deal with arecompletely different.
But the key is that that safetyplanning and that risk
management have they goteverything they need?
Sometimes they just can't,sometimes they need to just go
(11:55):
and then, once they're out ofthat situation, we can still
support them to maybe thenobtain stuff that they need to
get from the property if they'vehad to leave, stuff that they
need to get from the property ifthey've had to leave, um
because but going back to what Iknow you said, you digress, but
it's so, it's so key that likewe really need to change that
narrative of why don't we justleave?
And it's like, well, why don'tthey just stop?
(12:16):
That's the question that youknow should be asked, because
you know how hard is it to leavea non-abusive relationship with
the amount of things you've gotto think about.
So when you add abuse into thatmix, it's so difficult, um, and
that's why that you know the oursupport staff that's the other
priority is their safety, andthey will.
We need to make sure that it'snot rushed.
(12:38):
Sometimes it needs to be,sometimes they need to leave
immediately, but if you know ifit's safe for them to do this in
a real planned way, that wouldalways be the advice.
And because you know survivors,the risk does heighten when
they end the relationship.
So you know that safety plan isabsolutely key
yeah, absolutely, and I thinkwhat?
(12:59):
I think that that question thatyou, that makes you and me
shiver, because it's not thatsimple.
If you're not involved in thiswork, if you haven't worked or
been an observer of Victims 5,it does feel like a
(13:20):
straightforward thing to do Justget out, just go and stay with
family, just go and stay withfriends, just get out.
And the problem is, I think,what a lot of people don't
understand, is that thatdomestic abuse is about control
and the perpetrators arecontrolling everything and what
they tend to have done isisolated their partner from
(13:45):
friends, from family, fromfinances, from having a job,
even in a lot of cases.
So they don't have that networkof people that people in a
non-abuse relationship have andtherefore it feels very
straightforward to go.
Why don't you just leave?
But actually there are so manyreasons why people, that's not
(14:07):
possible and it am I right inthinking that, um, it takes um,
uh, something like seven timesfor an, on average, to leave an
abusive relationship.
Is that a figure you've heard,or?
it's probably more on average, right, yeah, okay,
and, and that, and then figuresdo differ a little bit depending
(14:29):
on whether people are deemedhigh risk.
I mean, we have to, you know,in this sector we have.
You know that is how you knowwe manage the support that we
offer.
You know we complete riskassessments and people are
deemed high risk or medium risk.
But I think what we also needto remember is risk is fluid,
(14:54):
fluid and you know, and everyeverybody experiences domestic
abuse deserves that safety andsupport um, to play, um or to
end a relationship if that'swhat they wish to do.
So, um, but yeah, it is, it isreally difficult with, and it's
it's only around education, andyou know, it's not that,
although, yeah, it does make us,you know, shiver when we hear
them questions, but it is justan education piece, isn't it?
In terms of, you know, andthat's why it's so vital that
(15:18):
things like this happen for thepublic to see, because it's just
making that increase in thatawareness.
Because you know we should, weshould be educating everybody on
the dynamics of domestic abuseand on them, you know, changing
the narrative and the typicalthings that we hear people say,
and you know, going back to theisolation.
Yeah, that does happen a lot.
(15:39):
You know we have a lot ofsurvivors that come to us and
they've got no support networkand it's a reason why they've
stayed in that relationship forso long and that they might not
be able to lead.
You know fair-for-traitors areexpert manipulators.
You know to the outside worldthey may be the best thing ever
because you know they hide it sowell.
So it is about that, thefeeling that survivors often,
(16:03):
you know, feel in terms of theguilt, the shame, the worry.
Where will they be believed?
What about the children?
Like you say, the finances?
Like you say the finances, yourfinancial abuse is just.
We see that time and time again,um, that she uses a means of
control for them to stay in thatrelationship, um.
So I think it's it's just sovital that we do educate people
(16:26):
on the difficulties, um, and welaunched not long ago our
friends and family toolkit onthis basis.
We've got a kind of section onour website.
It's got it's like a resourcetoolkit for friends and family
on just the right things to say,the right things to do.
Where to um signpost yourfriend or your family member who
(16:48):
might be experiencing it, to goto um, because they might be
the first person that somebodydiscloses to or they might not
even disclose what that familyor you know friend has got kind
of them, concerns thatsomething's going on, which is
why the support line's availablefor people to access that
(17:08):
advice as well.
Um.
Tamsin Caine (17:10):
So yeah, I think that's the piece of work we're
really proud of being able to tolaunch recently, because it's
so key that we can support thepeople around the survivor as
well absolutely, because, let'sbe honest, if one in four women
and is it one in seven or one ineight men are victims of
(17:31):
domestic abuse, we all knowpeople, we all have friends in
our networks, we all have familymembers who are in this
situation.
So we do need to change thenarrative and hopefully, you
know there's lots of us who arecertainly trying to do that.
You know there's lots of us whoare certainly trying to do that
(17:54):
.
So, moving on, let's talk aboutthe post-separation, because
there is this urban myth thatonce you've left, everything
will be all right, which is whythere's this.
Why don't you just leave?
Because everything will be fineonce you've left and the
relationship's over.
But post-separation abuse is,in some ways, even worse than
(18:15):
the abuse that was happeningwhen you were in the
relationship, because it seemsto, in many cases, really ramp
up once the relationship's over.
So how can you support somebodywho's left the relationship,
even if they're not in therefuge or being supported by you
for the leaving process?
Sam Fisher (18:36):
Yeah, again, it'll be really person-centred around
what that individual needs.
But we would support if therewas housing that they needed to
look at.
You know housing options or,like I said before, again, you
know the target hardening ifthey needed certain things put
on their property to make themfeel safe.
We have group programmes thatpeople can access, which is with
(19:00):
, you know, other survivors.
And again, when you've beenisolated and you feel like you
know you've got this guilt andshame them, environments can
often be really comforting.
They can be quite uncomfortablein the first session or two but
after a bit, like you've gotthat peer support.
And we have that for childrenand young people as well,
because you know we have toremember if these children
(19:21):
they're they're you know they'revictims in their own right.
They've experienced domesticabuse and you know as well um,
but we support with um, you know, any financial support that
they might need, whether that be, you know, if they've had to
leave a job or they have toreduce hours or they need to now
apply for benefits, we cansupport with that and any legal
(19:45):
kind of advice and support.
So we we try and work withlocal solicitors, firms that can
offer like free 30 minuteappointments to get that advice,
because not everybody,especially if they've, you know,
experienced financial abuse,can afford sure, fees, which is
really it is a real challenge atthe moment.
Um, and then we can, you know,we can support with if they've
(20:08):
had to move area, so we cansupport with helping them set up
in that new area, with all that, maybe their physical needs
that they may have.
I mean, it's the list's endless.
We know we work really well, wecollaborate with a lot of really
good partners who can supportand provide that holistic offer
and so they can start theirjourney of, you know, breaking
(20:29):
free from domestic abuse.
But it can be a lengthy processand especially if you, you know
there's proceedings and there's, you know, courts and practical
help in whatever way they mayfeel is is right for them at
(20:56):
that time.
Because again, everybody'spriorities are different at that
point.
Um, it might be they need newschool places for their children
or they need to put safetymeasures in place at the current
school.
I mean there's so manydifferent things that you know
we we can support with um andand advise and advocate.
Um, and advocacy is a big one.
(21:18):
So we do advocate a lot withother professionals if there's
other professionals involved, umyou know, with with the, um the
family, um, yeah, it's a wholehost of things.
Real person-centred supportplan on both practical and
emotional aspects of their lifeAmazing.
Tamsin Caine (21:38):
And I think one of the important things that I've
picked up from talking to you isthat you're going to know
things that the victim survivormight not think about.
You know, there are areas thatdon't necessarily cross your
mind when you've been goingthrough all this stuff, that
(22:00):
your experience will say well,what about this, what about this
, what about this?
Are these things that are goingto impact you?
And that helps to put things inplace before the issues start
and it's more.
It's kind of preventativereally, rather than kind of
reacting to to what's happened,and so I think that's really
(22:20):
important.
You've used term a couple oftimes that I have no idea what
it means, so I'm going to askyou I think it's target
hardening.
Oh yeah, sorry, yeah, sorry, doyou know something
, that's all right .
No, don't worry, I was just like.
I have no idea what that means.
So I'm going to ask
Sam Fisher (22:35):
.
Yeah, I mean, honestly, there'sso many things.
We love an acronym as well, soif any of that comes out, please
do let me know.
When you're in it, you justkind of assume something like
that no, no, not at all.
So target hardening, so that isthat they are kind of measures
(22:56):
that you would put on a propertythat um could include um window
locks, um a safe, um fire guardon a letterbox.
It's all about safety aspectsfor a property where a victim
survivor would like to stay inthe property um, so it might be
um security lights, securityalarms, um.
So yeah, I mean there's not muchfunding for it specifically and
(23:18):
we work quite closely with ourcommunity safety team, um, and
we do also raise, you know, dosome fundraising campaigns for
them specific things, but it'sall about security and safety of
a, of a property all right.
Tamsin Caine (23:32):
Well, didn't even know that was a thing.
Sam Fisher (23:35):
That's amazing everybody wants to leave do that
.
That's the biggest thing.
They want to be able to stay intheir own home and be safe.
You know, you know refuges yeahthey are.
You know they're a vital, vitalservice.
But if we can help somebodystay safely in their own home,
then that's what we, you know wewould want to do.
Tamsin Caine (23:54):
Yeah absolutely, absolutely.
I totally get that.
That makes complete sense.
Um, how, how long so?
And this might be how long is apiece of string, but how long
do you tend to work can carry onworking with people?
Is it just until theeverything's kind of I'm saying
(24:17):
just everything's sorted, interms of, obviously, a lot of
relationships and marriages orcivil partnerships, is it until,
or is it until like like howlong?
Or could it be years and years,because they need ongoing
support, because actually thingsare still going on well after
(24:39):
everything's resolved.
Sam Fisher (24:40):
You know our services are trauma-informed.
You know we want to offer thesupport for as long as we
possibly can to enable them tocope, and we don't often say
recover, you know, because noteverybody does.
Everybody kind of just learnsto cope with what they've been
through, but that's theirjourney.
(25:00):
So our services, because weoffer so many different kind of
projects and different ways thatpeople can access support, they
could be within our you know.
Know, in our service for youknow, two years, um, I mean the
average is probably around sixmonths, um, on a kind of
(25:22):
outreach basis.
When we talk aboutaccommodation, it's a little bit
more complex because there'sthings external out of our
control for them.
You know your additionalhousing.
But in terms of in thecommunity, yeah, that is on our
books.
Some people will be accessingour service for 12 months, if
not more, but that might lookdifferent.
(25:45):
So it might be that when theyfirst come to our service
they're supported, you know, byone of our domestic abuse
advisors who help them with thatinitial safety planning, the
risk management we do.
We sit down and do supportplans with all our survivors.
That is real person-centered tothem, so it highlights the
(26:06):
areas they want support with.
Then, once we've kind of lookedat them, we've put them
interventions in place and theymay no longer be in crisis as we
, you know, as we say um, thenit might be that they would
attend one of our group programs, um, which is a six-week, you
(26:27):
know, program on on kind of thethe realities of domestic abuse,
with the aim of, you know,reducing that social isolation,
being around people who are in,you know, similar, you know
situations or have experiencedsimilar things.
Their children then may want toaccess some of the group
(26:47):
programmes or have, you know,one-to-one support with our
children and people's workers.
I think the one thing that doesdetermine the length often is
when there's court proceedingsand because of the delays in
them.
But we have a really um, afantastic volunteer service.
We have the most amazingvolunteers um that dedicate
(27:10):
their time, um to our servicewho can once, once a lot of the
crisis intervention and the riskfor that individual is reduced.
It might be that our volunteerthen continues some of that
support and then if there iscourt proceedings, for example,
then our workers can step backin when the court hearing and
(27:33):
when they need support with that.
So it can really depend.
But I think we don't likeputting a time limit on it.
I think, historically, thereused to be such a big emphasis
on outputs instead of outcomes,and it was like, how many people
can you support in 12 months?
And it's like, well, it's notjust about you know, these are
(27:55):
people.
They people, they're notnumbers.
We need to be making sure thatthey're in a place where they
understand about domestic abuse,they recognize the warning
signs and they're less likely toenter an abusive relationship
again in the future.
And, even if they do, they knowwhat to do in that situation,
(28:19):
in that situation.
So I think we need to be ableto offer an intervention for as
long as we can to prevent thatcycle from repeating um, yeah,
which is why having so manydifferent elements of the
service is is just brilliant,because people can choose what's
right for them at what time.
Yeah, oh absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (28:39):
You mentioned about um court proceedings and
about your workers.
Um, perhaps coming back in whenthere's court proceedings, how
do you support people who arewho are in court proceedings?
Sam Fisher (28:50):
so our staff, um, where capacity allows, we would
always try and they would help,you know, attend court with them
.
We have to remember it varies aswell for each individual person
because, you know, if there'snot a criminal conviction, then
that can be really difficult,especially if there's like
divorce proceedings.
(29:11):
Um, again, you know, childarrangements.
So we, you know, we'll helpthem with attending court and,
you know, and being there as asupport for them if, if they
require, we would link them inwith our local solicitors firm
to get that, initially, thatadvice and support.
Um, it's yeah, it's just it isa lengthy process though, uh,
(29:36):
and that's why having, that'swhy having that volunteer
service really helps book for inbetween that time.
So they're still getting thatongoing emotional support, but
they would help them with, ifthey wanted support, with kind
of any statements that they needto give or any arrangements for
attendance at court.
You know, sometimes survivorsdon't want to be like, visible
(29:59):
in a courtroom with theperpetrator there.
So liaising, yeah, liaising,you know, with all the other
professionals involved in thatto support that process, um,
yeah, and just being thatadvocate with other
professionals and just so theirvoice is heard.
Tamsin Caine (30:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
That is fantastic, and justbefore we started recording, we
were talking about yourincredible lunchtime learning
sessions.
So tell us a little bit moreabout those, who they're aimed
at and what your aims are forfor running those series.
Sam Fisher (30:36):
Yeah, so one of our key objectives is to raise the
public's awareness aboutdomestic abuse Like it is
everybody's business.
It really is, and that's not tosay that everybody needs to be
a specialist in it, and it'sabout just having that awareness
.
You know, like you said before,about changing the narrative
(30:57):
and knowing what's not to say.
You know, like you said before,about changing the narrative
and knowing what's not to say.
You know um and just and whereto signpost to.
So we we offer professionalstraining in trafford um for
trafford um professionals,volunteers, the community um and
the they.
We've got quite a large libraryof what we offer.
(31:18):
So we have domestic abuseawareness.
We do a session on civil ordersthere's so many different ones
but we have a lot of lunch andlearns.
So they're like 30 minutes, 45minutes, and they cover so many
different topics that be housingstalking, one specifically on
(31:41):
gaslighting.
I mean, even at christmas we doone around domestic abuse and
christmas and the impact of andthe.
You know the correlationbetween certain um things for
that time of year, um.
And yeah, the aim is just toeducate as many people as
possible on domestic abuse indifferent areas of what, because
it's so complex.
(32:03):
I mean, we did say, before westarted recording as well, that
we could literally probably talkfor a week about all the you
know the aspects and the issuesand the challenges and you know,
and the rewards and the goodthings that come, you know, for
survivors and the rewards andthe good things that come for
survivors, but them Lunch andLearn.
They're free, people can accessthem through our website and,
(32:28):
yeah, I just encourage as manypeople to take the time out and
see which ones they feel areright fit, what they want to
learn more about and yeah, sothat's kind of the key aim is to
raise that awareness.
That's thanks to funding fromTrafford Council as well, who
really are, you know, theyreally really want to educate
the whole of Trafford ondomestic abuse, which is why
(32:49):
we're able to offer that forfree as well.
Tamsin Caine (32:51):
Excellent, well done Trafford Council.
God, I know that's amazing.
So, other than the awarenessand the learning for the general
public, I know you also have umservices for professionals who
who work with victim survivorson a regular basis, people like
myself, people like umsolicitors, divorce coaches, etc
(33:14):
.
What's available to them?
And also how?
How do they?
Because I know that they canrefer somebody to your services
if they feel that they theywould benefit from that.
So can you talk to us a bitabout how they would refer
somebody as well?
Sam Fisher (33:29):
yeah.
So, again, we that could eitherbe through the support line if
they wanted to call us or on ourwebsite, um, they could just
signpost somebody so they couldgive you know, a survivor,
victim survivor, our details andall all the information is on
our website in terms ofreferrals into our service.
(33:50):
If, if people know exactly whatservice they want to access,
then they can do that.
But a lot of the time it mightbe they, yeah, yeah, and then we
determine maybe what service itis that might be be right for
them.
Um, but we, we do have atraining offer for corporates as
well, um, because, again, Imean, unfortunately this one
(34:15):
isn't funded.
So there is, you know, know,there is a charge for it, but we
said before, didn't?
We around you know one in fourwomen, one in six men, so it's
happening within your workplace.
You know the amount of timethat's lost, you know, due to
because domestic abuse happeningand it affects people's ability
to work, people's ability to towork and that.
(34:41):
So we have a corporate offer aswell, where we and it's really
bespoke to up to organizationsand it's around supporting
whether that be line managers orthe HR team, around how to
support somebody within yourorganization who might be
experiencing domestic abuse andhow to you know, make sure
you've got a domestic abusepolicy in place, how you
communicate that you willsupport people within your
(35:01):
workplace who are experiencingdomestic abuse.
So that's you know.
That's key as well for peopleto have that awareness, because
it might be your staff thatyou're referring into or it's
not somebody you're workingdirectly with.
Tamsin Caine (35:16):
Absolutely.
It's massively important.
As always, we're coming to theend of our time together.
I knew this would fly and we'dend up wishing we'd got service
yeah, all time, but have Imissed anything?
Is there anything else that youwant to let us know about?
Sam Fisher (35:33):
that tdash does no, I think we've've covered.
I mean, again, we haveaccommodation services and I
spoke about the outreach and Ithink I mean I guess the main
thing is around that awarenessraising and the fact that our
services are available forprofessionals and family and
friends and people who may beconcerned and just want some
(35:56):
advice.
I think that's a big thing toget out there, that we are there
to give advice to other peoplewho may be concerned about
somebody else.
I think we have to remember weare not going to be the first
service somebody comes to who isexperiencing domestic abuse.
We're just not so.
That's why it is so importantthat people are aware about what
(36:18):
domestic abuse is, how it canaffect people and where to
signpost to or ring for someadvice and support.
Tamsin Caine (36:26):
Yeah, absolutely Massively appreciate you joining
me, sam.
Thank you so much, and all thedetails for contacting TDAS will
be in the show notes forcontacting TDAS will be in the
show notes.
If you or somebody that youknow is experiencing domestic
abuse, whether it's pre or postseparation, please do reach out
to them.
If TDAS isn't your localservice, then please do get on
(36:49):
Google.
I think there's an app I'm suresomebody told me the other day,
I think it's called Bright Sky.
Does that ring a bell to you?
Is that one?
And I think you can look upyour local domestic abuse
service on there.
Obviously, only download theapp on your phone if it's safe
to do so.
If not, please get a friend todo it.
And yeah, thank you, sam.
(37:10):
Thank you for having me.
My pleasure, thank you forjoining us, and if you have
found this useful, then pleasedo um give us a five-star rating
, and that enables us to getthis information out to further
and wider, to more people.
So many thanks, hi, and I hopeyou enjoyed that episode of the
(37:37):
Smart Divorce Podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
show notes for our details orgo onto the website
wwwsmartdivorcecouk.
Also, if you are listening onApple Podcasts or on Spotify and
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review.
That would be fantastic.
(37:58):
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this is
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
divorce and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
It's called SeparationDivolution uk.
(38:20):
Please do go on to facebook,search up the group and we'd be
delighted to have you join us,and the one thing I would say is
do please answer theirmembership questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
Bye.
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