March 7, 2025 • 49 mins
TRIGGER WARNING
Are you aware of the signs of domestic abuse? Join me on a powerful journey as I speak with Samantha Billingham, a survivor turned advocate who shares her harrowing experience with coercive control and emotion-driven manipulation. This episode goes deep into identifying red flags, understanding the psychological impacts of abuse, and the difficult yet courageous process of leaving an abusive relationship.
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Samantha Billingham
Samantha Billingham is the founder of Stronger Beginnings and we provide bespoke training for businesses and professionals to enhance their understanding of coercive control, domestic abuse and its impact.
The key focus of Stronger Beginnings is focusing on the empowerment, transformation and growth, between victim survivors and professionals. With Stronger Beginnings, professionals can connect and show positivity through enhancing their knowledge and understanding of coercive control and domestic abuse.
Samantha’s commitment is to create a world where victim survivors are supported, empowered, and given a voice. Stronger Beginnings provide bespoke training; our passion is to share our experience with other organisations to improve advocacy skills around coercive control.
Samantha is an Ambassador for EIDA, https://www.eida.org.uk/ employers initiative on domestic abuse, who offer the tools and employer needs to take effective action if an employee makes a domestic abuse disclosure.
She is also the face and founder of SODA, https://strongerbeginnings.mailchimpsites.com/soda Survivors of Domestic Abuse, an online support group for those who have experienced domestic abuse to come together without judgement.
Samantha is also an Associate for Better Lives Training co-delivering alongside Bridie Anderson, sharing her lived experience to give a clear understanding of coercive control, domestic abuse, and its impact.
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Tamsin Caine
Tamsin is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.
You can contact Tamsin at tamsin@smartdivorce.co.uk or arrange a free initial meeting using https://bit.ly/SmDiv15min. She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK
Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
https://smartdivorce.co.uk
P.S. I am the co-author of “My Divorce Handbook – It’s What You Do Next That Counts”, written by divorce specialists and lawyers writing about their area of expertise to help walk you through the divorce process. You can buy it here https://yourdivorcehandbook.co.uk/buy-the-book/
To learn more about our podcast sponsor Ampla Finance – access their product guide here: https://bit.ly/3Ieqmuc
Or complete enquiry form https://bit.ly/3W4J7pz and one of the team will be in touch.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tamsin Caine (00:06):
Welcome to series 10 of the Smart Divorce Podcast.
During this series, we're goingto be speaking about the
difficult subject of domesticabuse.
Unfortunately, during my work,I come across people who are
victim survivors of domesticabuse on a far too regular basis
.
So we're going to be talking tothose who have survived
(00:30):
themselves, to professionalsworking in this area, to
solicitors, to hopefully helpyou to find the right support if
you're in that situation.
This is an issue that's notgoing away.
So, if you're going throughthis or you know anybody who is,
I really hope this serieshelped you.
Thanks for listening.
(00:55):
Hello and welcome to today'sepisode of the Smart Divorce
Podcast.
I'm really happy to be joinedtoday by Samantha Billingham,
who is a survivor turnedadvocate.
I'm going to get her tointroduce herself a little more,
because what she's been throughand the way that she has now
(01:15):
turned her life around andbecome an advocate for others is
basically what we're going tobe talking about in today's
episode.
So welcome, Sam.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Samantha Billingham (01:26):
Hi there.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
It's great to be here thismorning.
Tamsin Caine (01:31):
Excellent.
So tell me, I guess let's startfrom the beginning.
I think the hardest part foranybody who's in a relationship
where they're experiencing abuse, the hardest part, is getting
themselves into a position wherethey can leave, and that is
(01:54):
really not straightforward.
Would you be willing to share alittle bit about your story?
Samantha Billingham (02:00):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
I think I like the way you'vekind of gone straight into how
it's not that easy to leave asituation like that.
So for me, the reason I'msitting here this morning is
because my 10 month old daughterat the time saved my life.
If I'd have not had my daughter, I would never, ever, have had
a reason to leave that situationthat I was in.
So in November 2006, theperpetrator I existed with split
(02:26):
my lip open whilst I washolding our 10-month-old
daughter in my arms, and for methat was the massive wake-up
call.
So I'd been with him for threeyears prior to that started off.
I met him in a local pub onFriday night and on my part he
was love at first sight.
I just saw him, was instantlyattracted to him, went over and
(02:48):
sat with him and his friend atthe table and, like we do in
everyday conversation, you openup about yourself, ie where you
live, where you work, what youdo, your social life, and
looking back, almost 20 yearslater, I gave him all the
ammunition he needed to controlmy life once I moved in with him
.
So we met one Friday night andtwo weeks later I moved into his
(03:12):
flat with him, but at thatpoint there was no indication
whatsoever that this person wasgoing to hurt me.
He was so charming, he made melaugh, he got a cheeky smile and
he was really well known in thepub and everyone kept coming up
to me and saying, oh, you'vegot a good one here.
He's a good lad, he'll reallylook after you and you just
(03:33):
don't doubt those things, youdon't question those things at
all and for quite a few monthsthere was really no indication
that he was going to physicallyhurt me.
But obviously now I know what Iknow in the work that I do the
signs, that the red flags andthe signs were there from the
beginning
oh, were they?
now, that's really interestingbecause, from everything you've
(03:56):
said so far, I'm in that placewhere why wouldn't you share
everything with him?
Why wouldn't you tell him allof all of the things?
So, looking back, what were thered flags?
If you don't mind me askingthat you, that you, knowing what
you know, now can see, becauseI think, when you're in the
throes of it, whatever the redflags are, sometimes they're
(04:18):
very difficult to pick up on,aren't they
very very, very difficult.
So for me it was about powerand control that he had over me,
and that means my thoughts, mymovements and everything that I
believed in before up until Imet him kind of go out the
window.
So the red, the biggest one,was moving into somebody's flat
(04:39):
with them just two weeks afteryou've met them.
You can't possibly know enoughinformation about someone to
make that decision.
It's a huge decision to make,but again there were no signs
whatsoever.
I told you where I lived, whatI did, so the biggest thing for
me was the relationship I hadwith my mum, very, very close to
(04:59):
my mum.
So when he said to me one daydon't go and see your mom today,
let's stay in.
If you love me, you won't go.
And it's when you're in any newrelationship everything's
excited and you do want to spendtime, you do want to be with
that person.
So again, there was noindication that there was
anything wrong with this.
He was just making a suggestionif you like, just don't go.
(05:22):
So I didn't go.
I thought you know, it's aone-off, what can really happen?
But then I saw my mum less andless and then when I did phone
her or when I did go and visither, there was always
consequences that I would haveto pay.
So that was the same for mysocial life.
Because I told him you know,I've got a great group of
(05:44):
friends, we go out every weekend, we have a really good time,
and also my job.
So when I met him, I was alegal secretary, absolutely
loved my job, lived for it, youknow, got suited and booted.
The money was brilliant.
And he just used to say themost oddest thing that again I
didn't, I didn't take any noticeof because it's just words,
(06:04):
it's just a conversation.
He's not hurting me.
And he would often say the onlyway you got your job was by
sleeping with your boss.
You must have slept with yourboss because there's no way
someone your age could could geta job like that.
I was a secretary and I was inmy early 20s and again, I never
thought anything of it until onemorning I suited and booted,
(06:26):
ready to go to work, and helocked me in the flat.
H id the key.
I couldn't get the key, got mymobile phone and threw it out of
the seventh floor window.
So we lived on the seventhfloor in a block of flats so I
can't even phone in, can't evenpull a sickie, nothing.
I've never had a day off workbefore.
Pull a sickie nothing.
(06:47):
I'd never had a day off workbefore.
I'd never not phoned him before.
I was really, really worried.
Two days later, when I managedto escape the flat, the first
place I went was my workplaceand that was because if somebody
really knew me would be my boss.
I was always early, I did mywork to the best of my ability.
I was was really good at my job.
He knew me.
(07:10):
So at this point it's stillreally difficult for me to
understand what's happeningbehind closed doors because at
this point no physical violencehas taken place.
It's just words at the moment.
So it's really hard for me towork out what I'm going to say
to my boss, because I don'treally understand it myself.
So to explain to someone elsewith no visible injuries, I know
it's going to be difficult.
So I get to work.
I try so hard to explain myboss.
(07:31):
He just stands in front of me,blows his arms up in the air and
says I'm not interested, you'resacked.
So I was sacked, instantlydismissed, for making domestic
abuse disclosure.
It was almost 20 years ago andI like to think things have
changed.
But yeah, that was the firstand last disclosure I ever made
(07:55):
to anybody, because I felt thatif someone really knew me it
would be my boss and all I everwanted was for him to listen to
me.
I didn't want him to have amagic wand, I didn't want him to
kind of get involved, I didn'twant him to counsel me, I just
wanted him to take five minutesto listen and say okay, crack on
(08:15):
, get on with your work,whatever, just listen.
And there was no conversation,no, nothing.
So for me, at that point,that's when everything changed.
For me personally, that's whenI lost Sam.
That's when I lost who I was.
But also that is when thecoercive control and controlling
behavior in that situationincreased dramatically.
So every single aspect of mylife was controlled.
(08:39):
He would time me when I went tothe toilet, so he would stand
outside the toilet door lookingat his watch going have you been
?
You've been texting your mom,haven't?
Of course I've been texting mymommy.
Yes, I had.
And again, there's alwaysconsequences for that.
I couldn't even have a bath onmy own.
He would physically get insidethe bath with me and the only
place I was allowed to go wasshopping and I would be
(09:02):
bombarded with phone calls andtext messages wanting to know
where I was, who I was talkingwith.
When I was coming home, um,sleep, I had to sleep when he
wanted me to sleep.
He was an alcoholic and he wouldoften drink, and drink the
clock round.
And I remember one time I washeavily pregnant and you know,
(09:24):
being pregnant is so tiring andI remember being really, really
tired and I thought you knowwhat?
I'm just going to bed.
And, as I said earlier, therewas always a consequence for
everything I did.
So what normal people do whenyou're tired, you just say right
, I'm going to bed.
Now, love, I went to bed.
Uh, this part does come with atrigger warning.
(09:44):
So for anyone who's listening,please just be mindful of your
own, of your own triggers andtraumas.
I'd previously brought him a petbird for his birthday.
He'd always wanted a bird forhis birthday.
I went to bed, got in bed, justlay down, and he opened the
bedroom door and I heard him saythis is your fault and he came
(10:05):
in the bedroom with a dead birdon the knife.
So he'd actually killed the petbird because I'd gone to bed
without him.
So when I said there was aconsequence for every action.
That is exactly what I mean.
I've had people say to me well,why did you buy my birds in the
first place?
I never, ever had any idea thathe would do anything like that
(10:28):
at all, because if I did,obviously I would not have had
brought a pet into the home atall.
But the one thing is they'revery clever and they're very
manipulative.
So when I met him on thatFriday night and he was very
charming, that's how everybodyelse saw him.
So when I wanted to make adisclosure there was really no
(10:49):
point because no one wouldbelieve me, because you know, he
used to up the little old ladyover the road and he was a good
lad who'd help his mom and itwas really difficult to make
that disclosure.
And also, with coercive control, there's no visible injuries or
anything for me to say oh look,and I didn't really know what
coercive control was then.
(11:09):
So it was in the early 2000sand it wasn't actually a crime
then.
So it was really reallydifficult to speak out and it
was really difficult to getpeople to try and see it from my
viewpoint.
There was a lot of victimblaming where you really do
doubt yourself.
So when I did manage to get free, it was back in the November
(11:31):
2006, he split my lip open.
It was a Friday night, we'dboth been out, we'd both been
drinking and in his words I'dsaid the wrong thing and
obviously deserved that slap.
I remember phoning the policeWest Midlands Police and they
were absolutely amazing.
They'd been amazing throughoutmy whole situation.
(11:52):
He was known to them.
They didn't let me know that,but he was known to them.
They did try and encourage meto make a statement and not
withdraw it, but they seemed tounderstand why I didn't.
But this time I knew I got todo it.
I knew I had to leave.
They couldn't take my statementat the time because I was
intoxicated, but they listenedto me and they asked me
(12:15):
questions and they sat with meand at that time that was kind
of enough for me.
On the Monday he came back tothe home.
On the Monday morning I got mydaughter up, put her in a pram,
told him I was going shoppingand I went to my local police
station.
I made that very, very laststatement and I can even
(12:35):
remember the police officer whogreeted me in reception.
He was a young officer, he knewme, he knew my situation and he
looked at me and went you looklike crap.
But I knew where he was comingfrom.
He knew me from when I was in agood place.
He'd kind of seen my journey.
So when he said that, I kind ofobviously knew where he was
(12:56):
coming from and all he said wasare you ready to do it now?
And I went, yeah, and he justsaid, are you sure?
And that was it.
I made that final statement.
On the same afternoon I had togo to a local solicitor.
So I got a non-molestationorder but unfortunately, because
there was no, not enoughcommunication, I didn't know how
(13:19):
we did a non-molestation order.
I didn't even know, you knowthere was no conversation about
what would happen.
And what happens is the papershave to be physically served on
that person.
So nobody told me this, nobodytold me that there was going to
be somebody attending the home,that somebody was going to be
knocking on the front door.
I wasn't allowed to answer thefront door and it was a man who
(13:42):
came to the house who wasknocking on the front door.
So the perpetrator is obviouslyvery angry.
He now thinks I'm having anaffair.
He now thinks this person issomebody I'm cheating with.
So it took around about four orfive days for the papers to be
served on the perpetrator beforethe non-molestation was put in
order.
Tamsin Caine (14:01):
Could you just explain what a non-molestation
order is for anybody listeningwho doesn't know what it is?
Samantha Billingham (14:06):
So because I've got a daughter who's 10
months old, I was absolutelypetrified for her safety as well
as my own.
So a non-molestation order isput in place to keep the
perpetrator away from yourproperty.
So in there it is said you know, he can't come within five
meters of the, not even in thestreet.
Um, he broke it, he breachedthat order.
(14:27):
Unfortunately, there's not asignificant punishment for when
perpetrators do this.
Um.
So when I reported it again,they were focusing more on but
he hasn't hit you.
They were focusing more on thephysical violence side of things
, whereas they didn't understandthe coercive control.
(14:48):
They didn't understand that Iwas absolutely petrified of this
person who was literallyoutside my front door.
They didn't understand that atall.
And then you've also got theconcept of I've had a baby with
this perpetrator, because I wasvery naive in believing that
having a baby, having a familytogether, is going to change his
behavior.
It never did.
(15:08):
And the one thing I always sayfor anyone who follows my work
is, if you listen very carefullyto a perpetrator, they actually
tell you what they're going todo.
They don't tell you whenthey're going to do it, but they
do actually tell you.
So for me.
He told me I was a rubbish mum.
He told me he told me he wasgoing to get social services
involved and he told me he willget her taken off me.
(15:29):
So when social services didturn up to my door because that
last incident obviously thepolice were involved I was
absolutely petrified and Ithought she's just going to be
taken off me.
Thankfully she wasn't.
So my support was actually aneight-week awareness course of
everything I'd been through.
I had to go to my family localfamily support centre and
(15:52):
basically do an eight-weekawareness course, which was, in
the politest way, the biggestwaste of my time ever.
It didn't help at all.
The very first thing we wasasked was what do you love about
your perpetrator?
So I'm now doubting myself.
I'm supposed to still love him.
Well, it was so confusing.
Um, there was lots of differentpeople there at different
(16:15):
stages of their journey.
You got some who really sharedeverything and I was just very,
very quiet, very reserved, justthere, because I had to be.
And then after that he took methrough the family court for
contact parental responsibility.
That was the most horrific partof the cycle for me and for a
(16:35):
lot of people who've experiencedthese things, it's just so
petrifying because you really dothink your child's going to be
taken off.
You.
People are judging you, peopleare blaming you and again it's
all about that power and controlon behalf of the perpetrator.
Thankfully, after an 18 monthperiod, the courts actually saw
(16:56):
through the perpetrator who Iexisted with, because he didn't
turn up.
He made excuses not to come tocourt.
They could see that he wasstill trying to control me and
then after that, that was it.
I had no support whatsoever.
I was never given a helplinenumber, I was never given
anything at all.
It's kind of like, right,you've got through that, you're
on your own now and I literallywas on my own.
(17:19):
We don't often talk about theactual impact of coercive
control in domestic abuse.
It took me years and years toeven have a conversation with
someone, because every time Imade eye contact with someone in
that situation, whether it wasmale or female, whether I was
related to them, I was accusedof having an affair.
So it was just easier not tolook at people.
(17:40):
I lost the ability to have aconversation because every time
I spoke to somebody I wasaccused of having an affair.
So I just wouldn't look atanyone, wouldn't talk to anyone
and my answers would be yeah,okay, it would be that kind of
thing, because I was justabsolutely petrified of speaking
to people and looking at peoplebecause there was always a
(18:01):
consequence that I would have topay.
So it's only just within thelast 18 months or so I've
actually started looking in amirror, I've started going out,
started socializing.
So, even though it's almost 20years since I came out of that
situation and I get asked thisquestion a lot and I get asked
how long will it be before I getover what I've been through?
(18:23):
And the honesty is we don't.
We learn how to adapt and howto live with what's happened to
us, but unfortunately thosethings they never, ever fully
disappear.
So sometimes there's a trigger,there's a birthday, a date or
something that will remind youof that time and when you have
children, it really never goesaway.
(18:44):
So for me, I didn't want him tohave contact with my daughter
because she was 10 months oldand I felt at that time it
wasn't in her best interest.
But I also knew that she wasobviously going to grow up.
She was obviously going to asknormal, natural questions about
her dad.
So you've kind of got one partof your brain is Sam and then
(19:06):
the other part of your brain ismum, and I had to see it from
her viewpoint because at the endof the day, it was still her
father.
She is the most incredibleyoung woman.
She's taken everything in herstride.
I explained, as appropriate, thesituation and why I did the
things that I did, and sheunderstands that, um, but that
(19:28):
guilt and that what if?
What if I'd have done this?
But I do believe I did what wasright for my daughter at that
time in that situation, and Idecided to set up an online
support group called Soda, whichstands for Survivors Of
Domestic Abuse.
I set that up in, so I left inNovember 2006, sorry, and I set
(19:52):
SODA up in May 2009.
And it's an online safe havenfor men and women across the
country to come together withoutjudgment.
I felt it was really hard tospeak to family and friends
about your experience.
It is really difficult because,with all the love in the world,
if you've not been there, youyou cannot understand the cycle
of coercive control and domesticabuse, so surgeries for men and
(20:15):
women to come together to, tohear other stories from other
survivors.
And then more recently, um,about 12 months ago, I decided
to set up my own business calledStronger Beginnings I.
I started my career in a firmof solicitors and the last job I
had was also in a firm ofsolicitors.
So I've kind of gone fullcircle.
(20:36):
But my heart was no longer init because obviously I've
changed completely as a personand it was a part-time job and
there was no room for growth oranything like that, and I just
thought I want to do somethingdifferent.
I want to do something where mypassion lies.
So I set up Stronger Beginningsand I share my lived experience
all across the country with alldifferent businesses and
(20:58):
organizations, because eventhough we're in 2024, I strongly
believe commercial control isstill not understood at all.
I've many, many women contact meon a daily basis who are in the
midst of it and they stilldon't understand that they're
experiencing it.
So my biggest passion istalking about coercive control
and also the impact.
(21:19):
I think it's really importantthat we talk about the impact,
because it has a massive,massive impact, whether that's
our mental health, anxiety,depression.
I've left two or three jobsbecause there are massive,
massive triggers for me andsometimes we can look.
We can look as though we're notengaged.
I'm on benefits as well, sosometimes it can look like we're
(21:41):
not engaging.
You know why have you left thisjob?
Why you know.
That's why we have to have anunderstanding of the impact of
coercive control, to understandwhy we do the things that we do.
Tamsin Caine (21:53):
Yeah, no, you're so right.
You're so right, I think.
Firstly, I feel that you'reincredibly brave telling your
story, so I just want to thankyou for that.
I've got tears in my eyeslistening to you and it's so
incredibly brave to tell peopleso much detail around what was
happening.
Um, just something that that you, when you were talking about
(22:16):
the, the beginning part of it,it was well, it's just words.
He's not hurt me and it's.
It's still abuse, isn't it?
You know you're still in anabusive relationship.
It is still coercive.
Control is obviously he wastrying to isolate you from
friends and family, and that'stextbook behavior from
(22:40):
controlling perpetrator, and Ithink that it's all right us
sitting here and looking backand going we know now that
that's textbooks.
That's what would have beenhappening, but there'll be lots
of people out there that that'shappening too and they're going.
Well, it's just words.
They've not actually hurt me,but they are on a path and I
(23:05):
think your experience has shownthat that path it doesn't stop
there.
You know, these are thestarting points and it can get
worse, and I think I just wantedto make that point just for
anyone listening so that theydon't think it doesn't.
(23:26):
There doesn't have to be a fistor a hand or a foot or anything
physical yeah, absolutely.
Samantha Billingham (23:33):
I've only just started saying that about.
But it's just words and thereason I do that is because a
lot of professionals across thecountry that is their attitude.
That is what they actually sayto survivors who report that
abuse today, in 2024, and it'sto show that at the beginning.
Yeah, I guess it is just words,but you know, as you listen to
(23:55):
the story and you hear, and I'llrepeatedly say, for every
action there was a consequence,and that it's not just me.
There's men and women listeningto your podcast now and they
can relate to what I've justsaid.
But something else as well I rana campaign during lockdown
called MTAB, which stands formore than a bruise, and it was
(24:16):
highlighting what coercivecontrol could look like.
Because I remember when thecountry went into lockdown and
for me personally, that was amassive trigger.
It took me right back and thenI was thinking, oh no, all these
men and women are now in thissituation.
They're actually with aperpetrator and, as we've just
said, domestic abuse is aboutpower and control and if we're
(24:37):
not talking about coercivecontrol, then we're not talking
about domestic abuse, becauseit's there at the beginning and
it's there at the end.
So the MTAB campaign.
I had Lady Karen Brady, MatthewWright, Amanda Redmond
supporting the campaign and itwas an image so say an image of
Amanda Redmond, and then there'dbe a quote.
So it would be about isolation.
(25:00):
It would be about someonereading your emails.
It will be about someonecontrolling your phone.
It will be about someonetelling you what you can and
can't wear, who you can andcan't speak to, monitoring your
movements.
So there'd always be whatcoercive control could look like
and the amount of people whocontacted me and said I didn't
realise I was in an abusivesituation, because people are
(25:23):
waiting for that physicalviolence.
So when we talk about domesticabuse, the first thing we all
think of is the violence, thephysical physical.
We don't always see the control.
So it's really important thatwe do talk about that, because
that's exactly how it startedand I think that any
professionals or anyone who'sworried about someone in that
(25:44):
situation, the things we couldlook out for with coercive
control is something called theABC of control appearance, body
language, conversation.
So for me, my appearancechanged dramatically from
someone who was really smart andclean to someone who, you know,
didn't have a wash, didn'tbrush my hair, didn't brush my
(26:05):
teeth, wouldn't put cleanclothes on my body language it
was always negative no eyecontact, no engagement, no
conversation and and theconversation I lost the ability
to have a conversation.
So I think those are threethings we can, every single day,
we can look out for, and andanother thing is about how do we
(26:25):
start that conversation, andit's something as simple as are
you okay?
No one in the three years I wasin that situation ever asked me
that question, and I might nothave answered straight away, but
it would have planted a seedthat someone is asking about me,
not is everything okay at home?
How's things?
They're kind of putting thatfocus on me and in that
(26:46):
situation, as we know, the focusis is never on the survivor
yeah, absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (26:53):
There's something that I've seen a few times
recently about asking are youokay twice, because the first
time can sound a bit like hello.
Yes, yeah, ask it again.
You're actually checking in.
Yeah, definitely, you know it'sa it's.
I'm not just saying it insteadof hello, I'm saying it because
(27:15):
I'm actually asking about you
Samantha Billingham (27:17):
And also I often say this when I do my
talks is the person who's askingthat question.
You've got a really hard jobbecause we've been programmed.
We've been programmed andmanipulated that everyone hates
us, no one's going to believe us, no one likes us.
So when this person does ask,are you okay, be like, why do
you, why, what, why would youwant to know that?
(27:38):
Why are you asking me, what doyou want to?
Why is this person doing this?
So you've got to kind ofunprogram how we've been
programmed and that is reallyreally difficult.
So you will have to ask thatquestion more than once and
probably more than twice.
You know, you probably have toput it in another conversation
as well to get us to open up.
Tamsin Caine (27:57):
I guess if you get that response, if you, if
you're kind of having listenedto this now you're expecting a
response, that's not theresponse you would normally get
from a healthy and fine person,you then know that you need to
(28:17):
keep asking and and in differentsituations and and so on, when
you were talking about, aboutthe actual process of leaving,
so he'd obviously been violenttowards you while you had your
daughter, which you know.
Everybody has a has a finalstraw and it's not always
(28:39):
physical, but everybody doesalways does get to.
You know, have a final straw,but but it's still even once you
decided to leave it.
It's not necessarily you mightleave and then still come back
and I I kind of want, didn'twant anyone listening to think
if you, if you leave and comeback, that's, that's normal
(29:01):
absolutely, it's part of thecycle.
Samantha Billingham (29:03):
Yeah, I left several times before I
actually left.
So, um, the one thing we haveto remember is that we fall in
love with a caring person, ofcourse, and then when we find
out that they're controllingperpetrator, we're in so deep
because we're in love with them.
We can't just turn that emotionoff.
We can't just turn that emotionoff because we actually love
(29:28):
them and they play on that andthey know that for me and many
other people, we want to be thatperson, to change them and be
the reason that they change.
So when we do leave for thefirst time and they text us buy
us flowers, leave us flowersoutside the door, leave us
chocolates and say I really loveyou, I'm so sorry, it'll never
(29:50):
happen again, of course we goback.
That is normal.
That is part of the cycle.
I went to a safe house and hefound me in a safe house.
I'm really sorry, I love you,it'll never happen again.
You know I love you and youreally, you want that more than
anything in the world and, as Isay, I left several times.
That is normal.
Something else that's normal ispeople who have children, who
(30:12):
don't leave, who choose to stay.
That's normal as well, becausewe are absolutely petrified of
this person, because we knowmore than anyone what they're
capable of.
We know that what they verballythreaten us with can one day
become reality.
So it is a really, reallycomplex cycle that is really
(30:34):
difficult to understand ifyou're lucky enough not to have
been in that situation.
But what we do in thatsituation, we safeguard
ourselves every single day.
We have to do what we have todo to stay alive.
So, for me, he was an alcoholicand sometimes I'd have to buy
him a drink, just so I wouldn'thave a beating, or just so
(30:54):
something wouldn't happen to me.
So you get, you know somepeople.
Well, why would you, why onearth would you do that?
I've got to do something tostay alive.
He could really lash out.
He could, you know, get reallyangry with me, and then you have
to think of all these thingsconstantly.
So you're existing, you'rewalking on eggshells and we're
safeguarding ourselves everysingle day, not like once a
(31:16):
month or once a fortnight, or wehave to do that every day and
it's exhausting, it's physicallyand mentally draining, and the
other thing is we're isolatedfrom everyone.
Even though this is theperpetrator, they're still the
only stable person in our life.
So when we're having a bad dayor when we're isolated from
everyone, even though this isthe perpetrator, they're still
the only stable person in ourlife.
So when we're having a bad dayor when we're crying and they
love oh come on, you know, I'malways it's really really
(31:39):
difficult and if you'reliterally on your own and you've
only got your own thoughts anda perpetrator's thoughts, it's
really really hard and difficultto even think about breaking
that cycle because you've got nomoney, you've got nowhere to go
.
He knows or she knows, obviouslywe know what happens to men and
women.
They know every single movement.
He came to my brothers.
(32:00):
He knew where my mum and dadlived.
He knew where my friends lived.
He knew everything because Itold him all of that right at
the beginning, three years ago.
When we talk about ourselves,you know that's what we do in
life.
I've never once sat there andthought, oh, I can't say that's
that person because he'll use itagainst me.
Now I do, because that impactis my barrier's down.
(32:21):
I'm very wary.
What I share with people, whatI say to people, I do the
safeguarding risk assessment, ifyou like, on people I meet now
and it's awful, it's horrible tobe in that situation, but
because of my lived experience,I have to, because I have one
person, one person who I thoughtloved me and it's, it's just
(32:44):
the most complex cycle and as Ishare my experience, which I do
a lot of now, if I hadn'texperienced it myself, I would
be like all those other people,because what's logical to us is
not logical to a perpetrator.
So who gets inside a bath withsomebody thinking that person
(33:06):
can be up to something in thebath?
Nobody.
It's not logical, but in aperpetrator's mind it is and
it's really, really complex
it's just it'sIt's just hard to listen to what
you've been through.
You know it.
You kind of you want to go inand rescue and that that's
(33:29):
that's not that helpful either.
I know you said you left a fewtimes, either either when you
were leaving but went back, orwhen you finally left for the
final time.
Did you put things in place?
Had you contacted domesticabuse services?
Were there?
Were the things that you did toprepare for leaving, because
(33:53):
it's not as easy as just walkingout the door and closing,
closing it behind you.
Is it there?
Are you know?
You had a 10 month old daughter.
There were all of her thingsand you're being watched all the
time by the perpetrator.
Presumably he's, and he's kindof controlling your every move,
every conversation, every actionthat you take.
(34:14):
He's probably watching yourphone, watching your emails, etc
.
Etc.
What, if anything, did you do?
What things did you put inplace before you left?
so, when we find the strength and courage
to escape a situation like that,become more vulnerable because
the perpetrator is losing thepower and control over us.
I had no support.
(34:34):
I had nothing in placewhatsoever because I didn't know
what domestic abuse was and Icertainly didn't know what
coercive control was until I'dleft.
However, there are people andsupport out there who can help
with safety plans.
So you've got Mankind, Women'sAid, obviously, who can help you
(34:54):
do those things.
As you say.
It's not.
You can't just wake up one dayand think, boy, I'm going.
It's a process that you have todo because, as you say, they
know absolutely everything aboutyou.
They know where you work, theyknow everything and they will be
charming to your colleagues andthey will be charming.
You know, you know and you'vegot all that to comprehend.
For me, I knew I had to andI've got the strength.
(35:19):
I describe it like a lioness.
I've got the lioness strengthin me.
Now I've got my daughter.
So nothing really mattered.
I generally didn't think ofanything other than my daughter.
Nothing really mattered.
I generally didn't think ofanything other than my daughter.
So I just kind of went throughit all blind.
Really, the one thing I did doso.
I was living with him in aprivately rented property.
(35:43):
Thankfully I put the rent in myname, and in my name only,
because if I'd have put it injoint names it would have been
harder for me to get him out thehouse.
So that one thing I did do is Iliterally moved over the road.
So I'm in one house here and Iliterally moved into another
house over the road and Iremember I'd gone to victim
(36:05):
support, my local victim support, because I was, you know,
petrified and her words wereyou're stupid.
So I've got a professional whois supposed to know about
coercive control and domesticabuse.
I've explained my situation andthe words out of her mouth it
was stupid.
He will find you and he neverfound me, because who moves over
(36:25):
the road?
We might move street or wemight move area, but I literally
moved over the road and henever found me.
He walked past the new housebut he never, ever found me.
So that's probably the onlything I did do that kept me safe
, because he was going to allthe places that he knew and he
(36:46):
would never put two and twotogether and he would never have
found me.
But for anyone who's listeningand thinking about leaving, I
would research, if you can, yourlocal specialty services
because I can help you put aplan together, or if you've got
a friend or a colleague who canhave an emergency bag left at
their home for you where you canstart putting you know,
(37:07):
passport, money, all that kindof thing into.
It should be a gradual processreally, because if they get wind
that you're you're gonna leave,they're gonna do all they can
to try and stop you.
That is what domestic abuse isabout.
It's about that power andcontrol and stopping you from
from living your life.
So they will do everything theycan to stop you from leaving
(37:29):
them.
Tamsin Caine (37:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know there are someamazing people at the local
domestic abuse services or onWomen's Aid.
You know all these differentcharities and services that I
think we know a little bit moreabout now.
But you know, 20 years ago, asyou say, it wasn't as well known
.
But even still, you know thisis still happening.
You know all over the place.
(38:00):
And I'm just going to pick upbecause you said if it's safe to
do so, because if you're satresearching domestic abuse
services on your phone and theperpetrator is monitoring your
phone or emails or texts oranything that could be a red rag
(38:22):
to a bull, you can tell it'sMonday.
So maybe using try and usesomebody else's phone, use
somebody else's computer, tryand even go to a library you
know we don't often go tolibraries these days but all of
(38:43):
these places who that have safeways of you contacting um the
services that will help to keepyou safe.
And the difficult thing is, youknow we say, oh, we, you know,
use a friend's phone.
Well, we've already talkedabout the fact that you're
probably massively isolated.
If you're still in a job, maybeyou can borrow a colleague's
(39:07):
phone.
But again, you know financialeconomic abuse.
You might not be working, butthere are places you can go to
find safe access.
Samantha Billingham (39:18):
Yeah, and just following on from that, so
I'm now an ambassador for EIDA,which is Employers Initiative on
Domestic Abuse, because, as Isaid, when I made my disclosure
I was instantly sacked.
So they actually provide freeresources for businesses and
organisations.
So if anybody does make adisclosure, you know you've got
the resources and tools tosupport them safely.
(39:40):
And also, I am a trustee for anorganisation called the Buddy
Bag Foundation.
So this is something close tomy heart, because I went, went
to a safe house.
I didn't have my daughter atthe time, but I remember meeting
two.
They were.
They were such young girls Icould have only just been 18 and
I got babes in arms.
I got very, very young children.
(40:00):
So what Buddy Bag foundation is?
They provide, um, a buddy baglike a rucksack, and it's filled
with 12 essential items forchildren that they're taking to
refuge with them.
So it's toothbrush, comb,pajamas, underwear, and it's
purely what I like about like'snot the right word because it's
for children, but it is purelyfor the child.
(40:23):
So, um, it's from naught to 16,boys and girls.
Everything is, you know, genderspecific, and we often forget
about the children and, as weknow, um, children are now
victims of domestic abuse withintheir own right, and the buddy
bag foundation obviouslycomplement that, and it's an
(40:44):
amazing charity to be part of,and I've heard firsthand from
from some of the staff who getthese buddy bags and what these
bags actually mean to thesechildren.
Sometimes it's the only thingthat I've got that is their own.
So my lived experience is nowgiving me the opportunity to
(41:04):
give something back to you know,to the community and to others,
and doing the work that I do isjust such a privilege oh,
that's incredible.
Tamsin Caine (41:12):
we'll put the um details of the buddy bag
foundation in the show notes soif anybody wants to look them up
, either to be able to help orcontribute in any way, or or,
you know, if it's something youneed, we actually had Susan from
EIDA on one of our episodes.
I'm very pleased to say so.
Anybody does want to go backand listen to Susan's episode.
(41:36):
She talks all about the workthat Ida are doing, which sounds
absolutely incredible.
Getting there, being able tohelp and support somebody who is
in this situation, who is underthe perpetrator's control then
(41:58):
all the better, because there islikely to be people in your
work.
This is not a rare thing that'shappening to people.
It will be happening in yourworkplace, unfortunately, to
somebody there and it'ssomething that we can't leave at
home.
Samantha Billingham (42:16):
We can't leave it at the door because
that coercive control andcontrol and behavior follows us
into the workplace.
Um, so yeah, it's an amazingorganization.
It really is, and for somepeople, the workplace is the
only safe haven that I've got.
So it really is a lifeline toto employees and employers yeah,
absolutely, I know.
Tamsin Caine (42:37):
Um.
When we started, just before westarted recording, I said how
was your weekend, um?
And we're 20 years on now andyou're?
You still said to me I'vebecome an expert in self-care
and um, so I wondered if youcould just briefly talk about
(43:00):
about afterwards, about you'resafe, your daughter's safe,
you've got somewhere to live.
You've now set up your ownbusiness.
What's the ongoing impact toyou?
And not necessarily in anegative way, but but both
negative and positive, wherewhat's what's happened to you
(43:20):
since?
Samantha Billingham (43:21):
it's not an easy journey from from escaping
to to now.
It's not easy at all, and theone thing I want to say is it is
as unique an individual as weare, so everyone's healing
journey is very different.
Um, what works for one doesn'tnecessarily work for someone
else, so it's not a competitionabout you know how long it takes
or what you do, but it'simportant that we learn from the
(43:46):
bad days as well.
So, for me, I get to do amazingthings like this.
I've met amazing people, I getto go on podcasts, I've been on
TV, but for me, it's all aboutraising awareness.
For other people, it's notnecessarily about me anymore.
It's about that one person overthere or that one man over
there.
(44:06):
It's about people emailing mesaying've seen you on the tv.
You get it.
You shared my story in a waythat I never could.
So it's about me givingsomething back.
It's about me being the supportthat I never had.
So I guess that's my myprofessional side.
For me personally, I'm onlyjust learning and noticing what
(44:27):
I've actually achieved what I'veactually achieved as Sam, so
I've set up my own business.
I've set up my own supportgroup, I'm an ambassador, I'm a
trustee, but again, it's all forthe cause, if you like.
Even though it's 20 years on,some things have changed, but
we've still got a long way to go, and I also want to show that
(44:48):
the men, women and children outthere that there is life after
domestic abuse, um, and you canget control of your own life
again when the time is right andsafe for you to do so.
And I think for me, being apart of that and being a part of
somebody else's journey isabsolutely massive.
And I think the biggestachievement for me is when I
(45:09):
actually had someone come up tome face to face and tell me that
I'd actually saved their life.
It was just so overwhelmingbecause a lot of the work that I
did do in the beginning wasonline and obviously you can't
really see anything becauseobviously I don't need to know
your full name, I don't need tosee a picture of you, you don't
need to tell me those detailsand you don't always know who
(45:30):
you're talking to and you don'talways know if they're gonna,
what they're gonna do.
After you know, we can givethem the information and the
rest is up to them.
And I was at an event and thislady came over to me and she
went.
She told me her name and I'vemet lots and lots of people over
the years so it's really hardto kind of you know, remember,
remember who some people are.
And she said to me that I wasone of the very first people
(45:53):
that she'd actually spoke to andshe did everything that I
suggested and she and her childhad got away and she was living
a fantastic life.
So for me, job done, I'vehelped one person.
That's massive.
But to actually hear somebodysay it and the emotion, and it
was so so she was reallyemotional, both crying, both
(46:13):
really you know, and so sopowerful.
And I get that now I'll get youknow, I do tv work, radio work
and I'll get people message mewith things like that.
And I think when you've been inthat situation and you've been
told you're worthless, you'reuseless, no one likes you, and
then you get strangers who knownothing about you really saying
(46:34):
all these kind things, it's just, it's just amazing.
So there is definitely lifeafter domestic abuse and and you
can go on to achieve all thethings the perpetrator said that
you couldn't.
Tamsin Caine (46:47):
I think you're incredible and it and the work
that you're doing is is is vital.
You know I'm not gonnaunderplay this, you know.
You just we need, we needpeople like you advocating for,
for um, survivors of domesticabuse and and those who are
still is still in that situationand and need to escape.
(47:10):
We just the more people who aredoing that work, the more
chance we have of making this adifferent situation to the one
you went through 20 years ago.
We're coming to the end of ourtime together.
I just wondered if there wasanything that you wanted to add
or anything that I've not askedyou about that you feel that
(47:30):
you're itching to tell yeah
Samantha Billingham (47:32):
, It went really well, it was great, thank
you
Tamsin Caine (47:35):
wonderful.
Thank you so much for joining meand thank you so much for being
so open and honest.
I know this episode willdefinitely have helped our
listeners.
Thank you for joining me aswell, and if you have found
today's episode useful, pleasedo give us a five-star review,
because it does help us to getthis information out to more
(47:56):
people.
Many thanks, hi, and I hope youenjoyed that episode of the
smart divorce podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
show notes for our details orgo onto the website www.
smartdivorce.
co.
uk.
Also, if you are listening onApple Podcasts or on Spotify and
(48:21):
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review, that
would be fantastic.
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this is
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
divorce and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
(48:42):
It's called Separation, divorceand Dissolution UK.
Please do go on to Facebook,search up the group and we'd be
delighted to have you join us.
The one thing I would say is doplease answer their membership
questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
Welcome to series 10 of the Smart Divorce Podcast.
During this series, we're goingto be speaking about the
difficult subject of domesticabuse.
Unfortunately, during my work,I come across people who are
victim survivors of domesticabuse on a far too regular basis
.
So we're going to be talking tothose who have survived
(00:30):
themselves, to professionalsworking in this area, to
solicitors, to hopefully helpyou to find the right support if
you're in that situation.
This is an issue that's notgoing away.
So, if you're going throughthis or you know anybody who is,
I really hope this serieshelped you.
Thanks for listening.
(00:55):
Hello and welcome to today'sepisode of the Smart Divorce
Podcast.
I'm really happy to be joinedtoday by Samantha Billingham,
who is a survivor turnedadvocate.
I'm going to get her tointroduce herself a little more,
because what she's been throughand the way that she has now
(01:15):
turned her life around andbecome an advocate for others is
basically what we're going tobe talking about in today's
episode.
So welcome, Sam.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Samantha Billingham (01:26):
Hi there.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
It's great to be here thismorning.
Tamsin Caine (01:31):
Excellent.
So tell me, I guess let's startfrom the beginning.
I think the hardest part foranybody who's in a relationship
where they're experiencing abuse, the hardest part, is getting
themselves into a position wherethey can leave, and that is
(01:54):
really not straightforward.
Would you be willing to share alittle bit about your story?
Samantha Billingham (02:00):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
I think I like the way you'vekind of gone straight into how
it's not that easy to leave asituation like that.
So for me, the reason I'msitting here this morning is
because my 10 month old daughterat the time saved my life.
If I'd have not had my daughter, I would never, ever, have had
a reason to leave that situationthat I was in.
So in November 2006, theperpetrator I existed with split
(02:26):
my lip open whilst I washolding our 10-month-old
daughter in my arms, and for methat was the massive wake-up
call.
So I'd been with him for threeyears prior to that started off.
I met him in a local pub onFriday night and on my part he
was love at first sight.
I just saw him, was instantlyattracted to him, went over and
(02:48):
sat with him and his friend atthe table and, like we do in
everyday conversation, you openup about yourself, ie where you
live, where you work, what youdo, your social life, and
looking back, almost 20 yearslater, I gave him all the
ammunition he needed to controlmy life once I moved in with him
.
So we met one Friday night andtwo weeks later I moved into his
(03:12):
flat with him, but at thatpoint there was no indication
whatsoever that this person wasgoing to hurt me.
He was so charming, he made melaugh, he got a cheeky smile and
he was really well known in thepub and everyone kept coming up
to me and saying, oh, you'vegot a good one here.
He's a good lad, he'll reallylook after you and you just
(03:33):
don't doubt those things, youdon't question those things at
all and for quite a few monthsthere was really no indication
that he was going to physicallyhurt me.
But obviously now I know what Iknow in the work that I do the
signs, that the red flags andthe signs were there from the
beginning
oh, were they?
now, that's really interestingbecause, from everything you've
(03:56):
said so far, I'm in that placewhere why wouldn't you share
everything with him?
Why wouldn't you tell him allof all of the things?
So, looking back, what were thered flags?
If you don't mind me askingthat you, that you, knowing what
you know, now can see, becauseI think, when you're in the
throes of it, whatever the redflags are, sometimes they're
(04:18):
very difficult to pick up on,aren't they
very very, very difficult.
So for me it was about powerand control that he had over me,
and that means my thoughts, mymovements and everything that I
believed in before up until Imet him kind of go out the
window.
So the red, the biggest one,was moving into somebody's flat
(04:39):
with them just two weeks afteryou've met them.
You can't possibly know enoughinformation about someone to
make that decision.
It's a huge decision to make,but again there were no signs
whatsoever.
I told you where I lived, whatI did, so the biggest thing for
me was the relationship I hadwith my mum, very, very close to
(04:59):
my mum.
So when he said to me one daydon't go and see your mom today,
let's stay in.
If you love me, you won't go.
And it's when you're in any newrelationship everything's
excited and you do want to spendtime, you do want to be with
that person.
So again, there was noindication that there was
anything wrong with this.
He was just making a suggestionif you like, just don't go.
(05:22):
So I didn't go.
I thought you know, it's aone-off, what can really happen?
But then I saw my mum less andless and then when I did phone
her or when I did go and visither, there was always
consequences that I would haveto pay.
So that was the same for mysocial life.
Because I told him you know,I've got a great group of
(05:44):
friends, we go out every weekend, we have a really good time,
and also my job.
So when I met him, I was alegal secretary, absolutely
loved my job, lived for it, youknow, got suited and booted.
The money was brilliant.
And he just used to say themost oddest thing that again I
didn't, I didn't take any noticeof because it's just words,
(06:04):
it's just a conversation.
He's not hurting me.
And he would often say the onlyway you got your job was by
sleeping with your boss.
You must have slept with yourboss because there's no way
someone your age could could geta job like that.
I was a secretary and I was inmy early 20s and again, I never
thought anything of it until onemorning I suited and booted,
(06:26):
ready to go to work, and helocked me in the flat.
H id the key.
I couldn't get the key, got mymobile phone and threw it out of
the seventh floor window.
So we lived on the seventhfloor in a block of flats so I
can't even phone in, can't evenpull a sickie, nothing.
I've never had a day off workbefore.
Pull a sickie nothing.
(06:47):
I'd never had a day off workbefore.
I'd never not phoned him before.
I was really, really worried.
Two days later, when I managedto escape the flat, the first
place I went was my workplaceand that was because if somebody
really knew me would be my boss.
I was always early, I did mywork to the best of my ability.
I was was really good at my job.
He knew me.
(07:10):
So at this point it's stillreally difficult for me to
understand what's happeningbehind closed doors because at
this point no physical violencehas taken place.
It's just words at the moment.
So it's really hard for me towork out what I'm going to say
to my boss, because I don'treally understand it myself.
So to explain to someone elsewith no visible injuries, I know
it's going to be difficult.
So I get to work.
I try so hard to explain myboss.
(07:31):
He just stands in front of me,blows his arms up in the air and
says I'm not interested, you'resacked.
So I was sacked, instantlydismissed, for making domestic
abuse disclosure.
It was almost 20 years ago andI like to think things have
changed.
But yeah, that was the firstand last disclosure I ever made
(07:55):
to anybody, because I felt thatif someone really knew me it
would be my boss and all I everwanted was for him to listen to
me.
I didn't want him to have amagic wand, I didn't want him to
kind of get involved, I didn'twant him to counsel me, I just
wanted him to take five minutesto listen and say okay, crack on
(08:15):
, get on with your work,whatever, just listen.
And there was no conversation,no, nothing.
So for me, at that point,that's when everything changed.
For me personally, that's whenI lost Sam.
That's when I lost who I was.
But also that is when thecoercive control and controlling
behavior in that situationincreased dramatically.
So every single aspect of mylife was controlled.
(08:39):
He would time me when I went tothe toilet, so he would stand
outside the toilet door lookingat his watch going have you been
?
You've been texting your mom,haven't?
Of course I've been texting mymommy.
Yes, I had.
And again, there's alwaysconsequences for that.
I couldn't even have a bath onmy own.
He would physically get insidethe bath with me and the only
place I was allowed to go wasshopping and I would be
(09:02):
bombarded with phone calls andtext messages wanting to know
where I was, who I was talkingwith.
When I was coming home, um,sleep, I had to sleep when he
wanted me to sleep.
He was an alcoholic and he wouldoften drink, and drink the
clock round.
And I remember one time I washeavily pregnant and you know,
(09:24):
being pregnant is so tiring andI remember being really, really
tired and I thought you knowwhat?
I'm just going to bed.
And, as I said earlier, therewas always a consequence for
everything I did.
So what normal people do whenyou're tired, you just say right
, I'm going to bed.
Now, love, I went to bed.
Uh, this part does come with atrigger warning.
(09:44):
So for anyone who's listening,please just be mindful of your
own, of your own triggers andtraumas.
I'd previously brought him a petbird for his birthday.
He'd always wanted a bird forhis birthday.
I went to bed, got in bed, justlay down, and he opened the
bedroom door and I heard him saythis is your fault and he came
(10:05):
in the bedroom with a dead birdon the knife.
So he'd actually killed the petbird because I'd gone to bed
without him.
So when I said there was aconsequence for every action.
That is exactly what I mean.
I've had people say to me well,why did you buy my birds in the
first place?
I never, ever had any idea thathe would do anything like that
(10:28):
at all, because if I did,obviously I would not have had
brought a pet into the home atall.
But the one thing is they'revery clever and they're very
manipulative.
So when I met him on thatFriday night and he was very
charming, that's how everybodyelse saw him.
So when I wanted to make adisclosure there was really no
(10:49):
point because no one wouldbelieve me, because you know, he
used to up the little old ladyover the road and he was a good
lad who'd help his mom and itwas really difficult to make
that disclosure.
And also, with coercive control, there's no visible injuries or
anything for me to say oh look,and I didn't really know what
coercive control was then.
(11:09):
So it was in the early 2000sand it wasn't actually a crime
then.
So it was really reallydifficult to speak out and it
was really difficult to getpeople to try and see it from my
viewpoint.
There was a lot of victimblaming where you really do
doubt yourself.
So when I did manage to get free, it was back in the November
(11:31):
2006, he split my lip open.
It was a Friday night, we'dboth been out, we'd both been
drinking and in his words I'dsaid the wrong thing and
obviously deserved that slap.
I remember phoning the policeWest Midlands Police and they
were absolutely amazing.
They'd been amazing throughoutmy whole situation.
(11:52):
He was known to them.
They didn't let me know that,but he was known to them.
They did try and encourage meto make a statement and not
withdraw it, but they seemed tounderstand why I didn't.
But this time I knew I got todo it.
I knew I had to leave.
They couldn't take my statementat the time because I was
intoxicated, but they listenedto me and they asked me
(12:15):
questions and they sat with meand at that time that was kind
of enough for me.
On the Monday he came back tothe home.
On the Monday morning I got mydaughter up, put her in a pram,
told him I was going shoppingand I went to my local police
station.
I made that very, very laststatement and I can even
(12:35):
remember the police officer whogreeted me in reception.
He was a young officer, he knewme, he knew my situation and he
looked at me and went you looklike crap.
But I knew where he was comingfrom.
He knew me from when I was in agood place.
He'd kind of seen my journey.
So when he said that, I kind ofobviously knew where he was
(12:56):
coming from and all he said wasare you ready to do it now?
And I went, yeah, and he justsaid, are you sure?
And that was it.
I made that final statement.
On the same afternoon I had togo to a local solicitor.
So I got a non-molestationorder but unfortunately, because
there was no, not enoughcommunication, I didn't know how
(13:19):
we did a non-molestation order.
I didn't even know, you knowthere was no conversation about
what would happen.
And what happens is the papershave to be physically served on
that person.
So nobody told me this, nobodytold me that there was going to
be somebody attending the home,that somebody was going to be
knocking on the front door.
I wasn't allowed to answer thefront door and it was a man who
(13:42):
came to the house who wasknocking on the front door.
So the perpetrator is obviouslyvery angry.
He now thinks I'm having anaffair.
He now thinks this person issomebody I'm cheating with.
So it took around about four orfive days for the papers to be
served on the perpetrator beforethe non-molestation was put in
order.
Tamsin Caine (14:01):
Could you just explain what a non-molestation
order is for anybody listeningwho doesn't know what it is?
Samantha Billingham (14:06):
So because I've got a daughter who's 10
months old, I was absolutelypetrified for her safety as well
as my own.
So a non-molestation order isput in place to keep the
perpetrator away from yourproperty.
So in there it is said you know, he can't come within five
meters of the, not even in thestreet.
Um, he broke it, he breachedthat order.
(14:27):
Unfortunately, there's not asignificant punishment for when
perpetrators do this.
Um.
So when I reported it again,they were focusing more on but
he hasn't hit you.
They were focusing more on thephysical violence side of things
, whereas they didn't understandthe coercive control.
(14:48):
They didn't understand that Iwas absolutely petrified of this
person who was literallyoutside my front door.
They didn't understand that atall.
And then you've also got theconcept of I've had a baby with
this perpetrator, because I wasvery naive in believing that
having a baby, having a familytogether, is going to change his
behavior.
It never did.
(15:08):
And the one thing I always sayfor anyone who follows my work
is, if you listen very carefullyto a perpetrator, they actually
tell you what they're going todo.
They don't tell you whenthey're going to do it, but they
do actually tell you.
So for me.
He told me I was a rubbish mum.
He told me he told me he wasgoing to get social services
involved and he told me he willget her taken off me.
(15:29):
So when social services didturn up to my door because that
last incident obviously thepolice were involved I was
absolutely petrified and Ithought she's just going to be
taken off me.
Thankfully she wasn't.
So my support was actually aneight-week awareness course of
everything I'd been through.
I had to go to my family localfamily support centre and
(15:52):
basically do an eight-weekawareness course, which was, in
the politest way, the biggestwaste of my time ever.
It didn't help at all.
The very first thing we wasasked was what do you love about
your perpetrator?
So I'm now doubting myself.
I'm supposed to still love him.
Well, it was so confusing.
Um, there was lots of differentpeople there at different
(16:15):
stages of their journey.
You got some who really sharedeverything and I was just very,
very quiet, very reserved, justthere, because I had to be.
And then after that he took methrough the family court for
contact parental responsibility.
That was the most horrific partof the cycle for me and for a
(16:35):
lot of people who've experiencedthese things, it's just so
petrifying because you really dothink your child's going to be
taken off.
You.
People are judging you, peopleare blaming you and again it's
all about that power and controlon behalf of the perpetrator.
Thankfully, after an 18 monthperiod, the courts actually saw
(16:56):
through the perpetrator who Iexisted with, because he didn't
turn up.
He made excuses not to come tocourt.
They could see that he wasstill trying to control me and
then after that, that was it.
I had no support whatsoever.
I was never given a helplinenumber, I was never given
anything at all.
It's kind of like, right,you've got through that, you're
on your own now and I literallywas on my own.
(17:19):
We don't often talk about theactual impact of coercive
control in domestic abuse.
It took me years and years toeven have a conversation with
someone, because every time Imade eye contact with someone in
that situation, whether it wasmale or female, whether I was
related to them, I was accusedof having an affair.
So it was just easier not tolook at people.
(17:40):
I lost the ability to have aconversation because every time
I spoke to somebody I wasaccused of having an affair.
So I just wouldn't look atanyone, wouldn't talk to anyone
and my answers would be yeah,okay, it would be that kind of
thing, because I was justabsolutely petrified of speaking
to people and looking at peoplebecause there was always a
(18:01):
consequence that I would have topay.
So it's only just within thelast 18 months or so I've
actually started looking in amirror, I've started going out,
started socializing.
So, even though it's almost 20years since I came out of that
situation and I get asked thisquestion a lot and I get asked
how long will it be before I getover what I've been through?
(18:23):
And the honesty is we don't.
We learn how to adapt and howto live with what's happened to
us, but unfortunately thosethings they never, ever fully
disappear.
So sometimes there's a trigger,there's a birthday, a date or
something that will remind youof that time and when you have
children, it really never goesaway.
(18:44):
So for me, I didn't want him tohave contact with my daughter
because she was 10 months oldand I felt at that time it
wasn't in her best interest.
But I also knew that she wasobviously going to grow up.
She was obviously going to asknormal, natural questions about
her dad.
So you've kind of got one partof your brain is Sam and then
(19:06):
the other part of your brain ismum, and I had to see it from
her viewpoint because at the endof the day, it was still her
father.
She is the most incredibleyoung woman.
She's taken everything in herstride.
I explained, as appropriate, thesituation and why I did the
things that I did, and sheunderstands that, um, but that
(19:28):
guilt and that what if?
What if I'd have done this?
But I do believe I did what wasright for my daughter at that
time in that situation, and Idecided to set up an online
support group called Soda, whichstands for Survivors Of
Domestic Abuse.
I set that up in, so I left inNovember 2006, sorry, and I set
(19:52):
SODA up in May 2009.
And it's an online safe havenfor men and women across the
country to come together withoutjudgment.
I felt it was really hard tospeak to family and friends
about your experience.
It is really difficult because,with all the love in the world,
if you've not been there, youyou cannot understand the cycle
of coercive control and domesticabuse, so surgeries for men and
(20:15):
women to come together to, tohear other stories from other
survivors.
And then more recently, um,about 12 months ago, I decided
to set up my own business calledStronger Beginnings I.
I started my career in a firmof solicitors and the last job I
had was also in a firm ofsolicitors.
So I've kind of gone fullcircle.
(20:36):
But my heart was no longer init because obviously I've
changed completely as a personand it was a part-time job and
there was no room for growth oranything like that, and I just
thought I want to do somethingdifferent.
I want to do something where mypassion lies.
So I set up Stronger Beginningsand I share my lived experience
all across the country with alldifferent businesses and
(20:58):
organizations, because eventhough we're in 2024, I strongly
believe commercial control isstill not understood at all.
I've many, many women contact meon a daily basis who are in the
midst of it and they stilldon't understand that they're
experiencing it.
So my biggest passion istalking about coercive control
and also the impact.
(21:19):
I think it's really importantthat we talk about the impact,
because it has a massive,massive impact, whether that's
our mental health, anxiety,depression.
I've left two or three jobsbecause there are massive,
massive triggers for me andsometimes we can look.
We can look as though we're notengaged.
I'm on benefits as well, sosometimes it can look like we're
(21:41):
not engaging.
You know why have you left thisjob?
Why you know.
That's why we have to have anunderstanding of the impact of
coercive control, to understandwhy we do the things that we do.
Tamsin Caine (21:53):
Yeah, no, you're so right.
You're so right, I think.
Firstly, I feel that you'reincredibly brave telling your
story, so I just want to thankyou for that.
I've got tears in my eyeslistening to you and it's so
incredibly brave to tell peopleso much detail around what was
happening.
Um, just something that that you, when you were talking about
(22:16):
the, the beginning part of it,it was well, it's just words.
He's not hurt me and it's.
It's still abuse, isn't it?
You know you're still in anabusive relationship.
It is still coercive.
Control is obviously he wastrying to isolate you from
friends and family, and that'stextbook behavior from
(22:40):
controlling perpetrator, and Ithink that it's all right us
sitting here and looking backand going we know now that
that's textbooks.
That's what would have beenhappening, but there'll be lots
of people out there that that'shappening too and they're going.
Well, it's just words.
They've not actually hurt me,but they are on a path and I
(23:05):
think your experience has shownthat that path it doesn't stop
there.
You know, these are thestarting points and it can get
worse, and I think I just wantedto make that point just for
anyone listening so that theydon't think it doesn't.
(23:26):
There doesn't have to be a fistor a hand or a foot or anything
physical yeah, absolutely.
Samantha Billingham (23:33):
I've only just started saying that about.
But it's just words and thereason I do that is because a
lot of professionals across thecountry that is their attitude.
That is what they actually sayto survivors who report that
abuse today, in 2024, and it'sto show that at the beginning.
Yeah, I guess it is just words,but you know, as you listen to
(23:55):
the story and you hear, and I'llrepeatedly say, for every
action there was a consequence,and that it's not just me.
There's men and women listeningto your podcast now and they
can relate to what I've justsaid.
But something else as well I rana campaign during lockdown
called MTAB, which stands formore than a bruise, and it was
(24:16):
highlighting what coercivecontrol could look like.
Because I remember when thecountry went into lockdown and
for me personally, that was amassive trigger.
It took me right back and thenI was thinking, oh no, all these
men and women are now in thissituation.
They're actually with aperpetrator and, as we've just
said, domestic abuse is aboutpower and control and if we're
(24:37):
not talking about coercivecontrol, then we're not talking
about domestic abuse, becauseit's there at the beginning and
it's there at the end.
So the MTAB campaign.
I had Lady Karen Brady, MatthewWright, Amanda Redmond
supporting the campaign and itwas an image so say an image of
Amanda Redmond, and then there'dbe a quote.
So it would be about isolation.
(25:00):
It would be about someonereading your emails.
It will be about someonecontrolling your phone.
It will be about someonetelling you what you can and
can't wear, who you can andcan't speak to, monitoring your
movements.
So there'd always be whatcoercive control could look like
and the amount of people whocontacted me and said I didn't
realise I was in an abusivesituation, because people are
(25:23):
waiting for that physicalviolence.
So when we talk about domesticabuse, the first thing we all
think of is the violence, thephysical physical.
We don't always see the control.
So it's really important thatwe do talk about that, because
that's exactly how it startedand I think that any
professionals or anyone who'sworried about someone in that
(25:44):
situation, the things we couldlook out for with coercive
control is something called theABC of control appearance, body
language, conversation.
So for me, my appearancechanged dramatically from
someone who was really smart andclean to someone who, you know,
didn't have a wash, didn'tbrush my hair, didn't brush my
(26:05):
teeth, wouldn't put cleanclothes on my body language it
was always negative no eyecontact, no engagement, no
conversation and and theconversation I lost the ability
to have a conversation.
So I think those are threethings we can, every single day,
we can look out for, and andanother thing is about how do we
(26:25):
start that conversation, andit's something as simple as are
you okay?
No one in the three years I wasin that situation ever asked me
that question, and I might nothave answered straight away, but
it would have planted a seedthat someone is asking about me,
not is everything okay at home?
How's things?
They're kind of putting thatfocus on me and in that
(26:46):
situation, as we know, the focusis is never on the survivor
yeah, absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (26:53):
There's something that I've seen a few times
recently about asking are youokay twice, because the first
time can sound a bit like hello.
Yes, yeah, ask it again.
You're actually checking in.
Yeah, definitely, you know it'sa it's.
I'm not just saying it insteadof hello, I'm saying it because
(27:15):
I'm actually asking about you
Samantha Billingham (27:17):
And also I often say this when I do my
talks is the person who's askingthat question.
You've got a really hard jobbecause we've been programmed.
We've been programmed andmanipulated that everyone hates
us, no one's going to believe us, no one likes us.
So when this person does ask,are you okay, be like, why do
you, why, what, why would youwant to know that?
(27:38):
Why are you asking me, what doyou want to?
Why is this person doing this?
So you've got to kind ofunprogram how we've been
programmed and that is reallyreally difficult.
So you will have to ask thatquestion more than once and
probably more than twice.
You know, you probably have toput it in another conversation
as well to get us to open up.
Tamsin Caine (27:57):
I guess if you get that response, if you, if
you're kind of having listenedto this now you're expecting a
response, that's not theresponse you would normally get
from a healthy and fine person,you then know that you need to
(28:17):
keep asking and and in differentsituations and and so on, when
you were talking about, aboutthe actual process of leaving,
so he'd obviously been violenttowards you while you had your
daughter, which you know.
Everybody has a has a finalstraw and it's not always
(28:39):
physical, but everybody doesalways does get to.
You know, have a final straw,but but it's still even once you
decided to leave it.
It's not necessarily you mightleave and then still come back
and I I kind of want, didn'twant anyone listening to think
if you, if you leave and comeback, that's, that's normal
(29:01):
absolutely, it's part of thecycle.
Samantha Billingham (29:03):
Yeah, I left several times before I
actually left.
So, um, the one thing we haveto remember is that we fall in
love with a caring person, ofcourse, and then when we find
out that they're controllingperpetrator, we're in so deep
because we're in love with them.
We can't just turn that emotionoff.
We can't just turn that emotionoff because we actually love
(29:28):
them and they play on that andthey know that for me and many
other people, we want to be thatperson, to change them and be
the reason that they change.
So when we do leave for thefirst time and they text us buy
us flowers, leave us flowersoutside the door, leave us
chocolates and say I really loveyou, I'm so sorry, it'll never
(29:50):
happen again, of course we goback.
That is normal.
That is part of the cycle.
I went to a safe house and hefound me in a safe house.
I'm really sorry, I love you,it'll never happen again.
You know I love you and youreally, you want that more than
anything in the world and, as Isay, I left several times.
That is normal.
Something else that's normal ispeople who have children, who
(30:12):
don't leave, who choose to stay.
That's normal as well, becausewe are absolutely petrified of
this person, because we knowmore than anyone what they're
capable of.
We know that what they verballythreaten us with can one day
become reality.
So it is a really, reallycomplex cycle that is really
(30:34):
difficult to understand ifyou're lucky enough not to have
been in that situation.
But what we do in thatsituation, we safeguard
ourselves every single day.
We have to do what we have todo to stay alive.
So, for me, he was an alcoholicand sometimes I'd have to buy
him a drink, just so I wouldn'thave a beating, or just so
(30:54):
something wouldn't happen to me.
So you get, you know somepeople.
Well, why would you, why onearth would you do that?
I've got to do something tostay alive.
He could really lash out.
He could, you know, get reallyangry with me, and then you have
to think of all these thingsconstantly.
So you're existing, you'rewalking on eggshells and we're
safeguarding ourselves everysingle day, not like once a
(31:16):
month or once a fortnight, or wehave to do that every day and
it's exhausting, it's physicallyand mentally draining, and the
other thing is we're isolatedfrom everyone.
Even though this is theperpetrator, they're still the
only stable person in our life.
So when we're having a bad dayor when we're isolated from
everyone, even though this isthe perpetrator, they're still
the only stable person in ourlife.
So when we're having a bad dayor when we're crying and they
love oh come on, you know, I'malways it's really really
(31:39):
difficult and if you'reliterally on your own and you've
only got your own thoughts anda perpetrator's thoughts, it's
really really hard and difficultto even think about breaking
that cycle because you've got nomoney, you've got nowhere to go
.
He knows or she knows, obviouslywe know what happens to men and
women.
They know every single movement.
He came to my brothers.
(32:00):
He knew where my mum and dadlived.
He knew where my friends lived.
He knew everything because Itold him all of that right at
the beginning, three years ago.
When we talk about ourselves,you know that's what we do in
life.
I've never once sat there andthought, oh, I can't say that's
that person because he'll use itagainst me.
Now I do, because that impactis my barrier's down.
(32:21):
I'm very wary.
What I share with people, whatI say to people, I do the
safeguarding risk assessment, ifyou like, on people I meet now
and it's awful, it's horrible tobe in that situation, but
because of my lived experience,I have to, because I have one
person, one person who I thoughtloved me and it's, it's just
(32:44):
the most complex cycle and as Ishare my experience, which I do
a lot of now, if I hadn'texperienced it myself, I would
be like all those other people,because what's logical to us is
not logical to a perpetrator.
So who gets inside a bath withsomebody thinking that person
(33:06):
can be up to something in thebath?
Nobody.
It's not logical, but in aperpetrator's mind it is and
it's really, really complex
it's just it'sIt's just hard to listen to what
you've been through.
You know it.
You kind of you want to go inand rescue and that that's
(33:29):
that's not that helpful either.
I know you said you left a fewtimes, either either when you
were leaving but went back, orwhen you finally left for the
final time.
Did you put things in place?
Had you contacted domesticabuse services?
Were there?
Were the things that you did toprepare for leaving, because
(33:53):
it's not as easy as just walkingout the door and closing,
closing it behind you.
Is it there?
Are you know?
You had a 10 month old daughter.
There were all of her thingsand you're being watched all the
time by the perpetrator.
Presumably he's, and he's kindof controlling your every move,
every conversation, every actionthat you take.
(34:14):
He's probably watching yourphone, watching your emails, etc
.
Etc.
What, if anything, did you do?
What things did you put inplace before you left?
so, when we find the strength and courage
to escape a situation like that,become more vulnerable because
the perpetrator is losing thepower and control over us.
I had no support.
(34:34):
I had nothing in placewhatsoever because I didn't know
what domestic abuse was and Icertainly didn't know what
coercive control was until I'dleft.
However, there are people andsupport out there who can help
with safety plans.
So you've got Mankind, Women'sAid, obviously, who can help you
(34:54):
do those things.
As you say.
It's not.
You can't just wake up one dayand think, boy, I'm going.
It's a process that you have todo because, as you say, they
know absolutely everything aboutyou.
They know where you work, theyknow everything and they will be
charming to your colleagues andthey will be charming.
You know, you know and you'vegot all that to comprehend.
For me, I knew I had to andI've got the strength.
(35:19):
I describe it like a lioness.
I've got the lioness strengthin me.
Now I've got my daughter.
So nothing really mattered.
I generally didn't think ofanything other than my daughter.
Nothing really mattered.
I generally didn't think ofanything other than my daughter.
So I just kind of went throughit all blind.
Really, the one thing I did doso.
I was living with him in aprivately rented property.
(35:43):
Thankfully I put the rent in myname, and in my name only,
because if I'd have put it injoint names it would have been
harder for me to get him out thehouse.
So that one thing I did do is Iliterally moved over the road.
So I'm in one house here and Iliterally moved into another
house over the road and Iremember I'd gone to victim
(36:05):
support, my local victim support, because I was, you know,
petrified and her words wereyou're stupid.
So I've got a professional whois supposed to know about
coercive control and domesticabuse.
I've explained my situation andthe words out of her mouth it
was stupid.
He will find you and he neverfound me, because who moves over
(36:25):
the road?
We might move street or wemight move area, but I literally
moved over the road and henever found me.
He walked past the new housebut he never, ever found me.
So that's probably the onlything I did do that kept me safe
, because he was going to allthe places that he knew and he
(36:46):
would never put two and twotogether and he would never have
found me.
But for anyone who's listeningand thinking about leaving, I
would research, if you can, yourlocal specialty services
because I can help you put aplan together, or if you've got
a friend or a colleague who canhave an emergency bag left at
their home for you where you canstart putting you know,
(37:07):
passport, money, all that kindof thing into.
It should be a gradual processreally, because if they get wind
that you're you're gonna leave,they're gonna do all they can
to try and stop you.
That is what domestic abuse isabout.
It's about that power andcontrol and stopping you from
from living your life.
So they will do everything theycan to stop you from leaving
(37:29):
them.
Tamsin Caine (37:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know there are someamazing people at the local
domestic abuse services or onWomen's Aid.
You know all these differentcharities and services that I
think we know a little bit moreabout now.
But you know, 20 years ago, asyou say, it wasn't as well known
.
But even still, you know thisis still happening.
You know all over the place.
(38:00):
And I'm just going to pick upbecause you said if it's safe to
do so, because if you're satresearching domestic abuse
services on your phone and theperpetrator is monitoring your
phone or emails or texts oranything that could be a red rag
(38:22):
to a bull, you can tell it'sMonday.
So maybe using try and usesomebody else's phone, use
somebody else's computer, tryand even go to a library you
know we don't often go tolibraries these days but all of
(38:43):
these places who that have safeways of you contacting um the
services that will help to keepyou safe.
And the difficult thing is, youknow we say, oh, we, you know,
use a friend's phone.
Well, we've already talkedabout the fact that you're
probably massively isolated.
If you're still in a job, maybeyou can borrow a colleague's
(39:07):
phone.
But again, you know financialeconomic abuse.
You might not be working, butthere are places you can go to
find safe access.
Samantha Billingham (39:18):
Yeah, and just following on from that, so
I'm now an ambassador for EIDA,which is Employers Initiative on
Domestic Abuse, because, as Isaid, when I made my disclosure
I was instantly sacked.
So they actually provide freeresources for businesses and
organisations.
So if anybody does make adisclosure, you know you've got
the resources and tools tosupport them safely.
(39:40):
And also, I am a trustee for anorganisation called the Buddy
Bag Foundation.
So this is something close tomy heart, because I went, went
to a safe house.
I didn't have my daughter atthe time, but I remember meeting
two.
They were.
They were such young girls Icould have only just been 18 and
I got babes in arms.
I got very, very young children.
(40:00):
So what Buddy Bag foundation is?
They provide, um, a buddy baglike a rucksack, and it's filled
with 12 essential items forchildren that they're taking to
refuge with them.
So it's toothbrush, comb,pajamas, underwear, and it's
purely what I like about like'snot the right word because it's
for children, but it is purelyfor the child.
(40:23):
So, um, it's from naught to 16,boys and girls.
Everything is, you know, genderspecific, and we often forget
about the children and, as weknow, um, children are now
victims of domestic abuse withintheir own right, and the buddy
bag foundation obviouslycomplement that, and it's an
(40:44):
amazing charity to be part of,and I've heard firsthand from
from some of the staff who getthese buddy bags and what these
bags actually mean to thesechildren.
Sometimes it's the only thingthat I've got that is their own.
So my lived experience is nowgiving me the opportunity to
(41:04):
give something back to you know,to the community and to others,
and doing the work that I do isjust such a privilege oh,
that's incredible.
Tamsin Caine (41:12):
we'll put the um details of the buddy bag
foundation in the show notes soif anybody wants to look them up
, either to be able to help orcontribute in any way, or or,
you know, if it's something youneed, we actually had Susan from
EIDA on one of our episodes.
I'm very pleased to say so.
Anybody does want to go backand listen to Susan's episode.
(41:36):
She talks all about the workthat Ida are doing, which sounds
absolutely incredible.
Getting there, being able tohelp and support somebody who is
in this situation, who is underthe perpetrator's control then
(41:58):
all the better, because there islikely to be people in your
work.
This is not a rare thing that'shappening to people.
It will be happening in yourworkplace, unfortunately, to
somebody there and it'ssomething that we can't leave at
home.
Samantha Billingham (42:16):
We can't leave it at the door because
that coercive control andcontrol and behavior follows us
into the workplace.
Um, so yeah, it's an amazingorganization.
It really is, and for somepeople, the workplace is the
only safe haven that I've got.
So it really is a lifeline toto employees and employers yeah,
absolutely, I know.
Tamsin Caine (42:37):
Um.
When we started, just before westarted recording, I said how
was your weekend, um?
And we're 20 years on now andyou're?
You still said to me I'vebecome an expert in self-care
and um, so I wondered if youcould just briefly talk about
(43:00):
about afterwards, about you'resafe, your daughter's safe,
you've got somewhere to live.
You've now set up your ownbusiness.
What's the ongoing impact toyou?
And not necessarily in anegative way, but but both
negative and positive, wherewhat's what's happened to you
(43:20):
since?
Samantha Billingham (43:21):
it's not an easy journey from from escaping
to to now.
It's not easy at all, and theone thing I want to say is it is
as unique an individual as weare, so everyone's healing
journey is very different.
Um, what works for one doesn'tnecessarily work for someone
else, so it's not a competitionabout you know how long it takes
or what you do, but it'simportant that we learn from the
(43:46):
bad days as well.
So, for me, I get to do amazingthings like this.
I've met amazing people, I getto go on podcasts, I've been on
TV, but for me, it's all aboutraising awareness.
For other people, it's notnecessarily about me anymore.
It's about that one person overthere or that one man over
there.
(44:06):
It's about people emailing mesaying've seen you on the tv.
You get it.
You shared my story in a waythat I never could.
So it's about me givingsomething back.
It's about me being the supportthat I never had.
So I guess that's my myprofessional side.
For me personally, I'm onlyjust learning and noticing what
(44:27):
I've actually achieved what I'veactually achieved as Sam, so
I've set up my own business.
I've set up my own supportgroup, I'm an ambassador, I'm a
trustee, but again, it's all forthe cause, if you like.
Even though it's 20 years on,some things have changed, but
we've still got a long way to go, and I also want to show that
(44:48):
the men, women and children outthere that there is life after
domestic abuse, um, and you canget control of your own life
again when the time is right andsafe for you to do so.
And I think for me, being apart of that and being a part of
somebody else's journey isabsolutely massive.
And I think the biggestachievement for me is when I
(45:09):
actually had someone come up tome face to face and tell me that
I'd actually saved their life.
It was just so overwhelmingbecause a lot of the work that I
did do in the beginning wasonline and obviously you can't
really see anything becauseobviously I don't need to know
your full name, I don't need tosee a picture of you, you don't
need to tell me those detailsand you don't always know who
(45:30):
you're talking to and you don'talways know if they're gonna,
what they're gonna do.
After you know, we can givethem the information and the
rest is up to them.
And I was at an event and thislady came over to me and she
went.
She told me her name and I'vemet lots and lots of people over
the years so it's really hardto kind of you know, remember,
remember who some people are.
And she said to me that I wasone of the very first people
(45:53):
that she'd actually spoke to andshe did everything that I
suggested and she and her childhad got away and she was living
a fantastic life.
So for me, job done, I'vehelped one person.
That's massive.
But to actually hear somebodysay it and the emotion, and it
was so so she was reallyemotional, both crying, both
(46:13):
really you know, and so sopowerful.
And I get that now I'll get youknow, I do tv work, radio work
and I'll get people message mewith things like that.
And I think when you've been inthat situation and you've been
told you're worthless, you'reuseless, no one likes you, and
then you get strangers who knownothing about you really saying
(46:34):
all these kind things, it's just, it's just amazing.
So there is definitely lifeafter domestic abuse and and you
can go on to achieve all thethings the perpetrator said that
you couldn't.
Tamsin Caine (46:47):
I think you're incredible and it and the work
that you're doing is is is vital.
You know I'm not gonnaunderplay this, you know.
You just we need, we needpeople like you advocating for,
for um, survivors of domesticabuse and and those who are
still is still in that situationand and need to escape.
(47:10):
We just the more people who aredoing that work, the more
chance we have of making this adifferent situation to the one
you went through 20 years ago.
We're coming to the end of ourtime together.
I just wondered if there wasanything that you wanted to add
or anything that I've not askedyou about that you feel that
(47:30):
you're itching to tell yeah
Samantha Billingham (47:32):
, It went really well, it was great, thank
you
Tamsin Caine (47:35):
wonderful.
Thank you so much for joining meand thank you so much for being
so open and honest.
I know this episode willdefinitely have helped our
listeners.
Thank you for joining me aswell, and if you have found
today's episode useful, pleasedo give us a five-star review,
because it does help us to getthis information out to more
(47:56):
people.
Many thanks, hi, and I hope youenjoyed that episode of the
smart divorce podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
show notes for our details orgo onto the website www.
smartdivorce.
co.
uk.
Also, if you are listening onApple Podcasts or on Spotify and
(48:21):
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review, that
would be fantastic.
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this is
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
divorce and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
(48:42):
It's called Separation, divorceand Dissolution UK.
Please do go on to Facebook,search up the group and we'd be
delighted to have you join us.
The one thing I would say is doplease answer their membership
questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
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