October 9, 2025 • 36 mins
We talk with trauma coach and mountain guide Ilaria Petrucci about healing after narcissistic abuse, the lines between kindness and people‑pleasing, and why walking in nature helps survivors rebuild trust in themselves. Her journey moves from isolation to community, from endurance to self‑respect, and from hope for someone else’s change to responsibility for her own.
Ilaria Petrucci
Ilaria Petrucci is a qualified mountain leader and trained Trauma coach who loves helping women reconnect with themselves through nature and hiking. She founded Healing Through Hiking CIC, a safe and welcoming space where women can connect with themselves, with nature, and with other women who truly understand. She runs a free monthly walk in the Peak District, and is now expanding her offerings to retreats and guided hikes, creating more opportunities for women to recharge, reconnect, and feel empowered in the outdoors. Ilaria also runs Her Wild Adventures and leads general hiking trips for women of all levels, creating adventures that are fun, empowering, and full of connection. Drawing on her own journey of healing, she shares honest, relatable insights to inspire others to rediscover their strength, joy, and sense of freedom, one step at a time.
Website: www.herwildadventures.co.uk
Instagram : www.instagram.com/mylifeasila
Healing Through Hiking Instagram: www.instagram.com/healing.through.hiking
Tamsin Caine
Tamsin is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.
You can contact Tamsin at tamsin@smartdivorce.co.uk or arrange a free initial meeting using https://bit.ly/SmDiv15min. She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK
Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
Smart Divorce Ltd
P.S. I am the co-author of “My Divorce Handbook – It’s What You Do Next That Counts”, written by divorce specialists and lawyers writing about their area of expertise to help walk you through the divorce process. You can buy it here https://yourdivorcehandbook.co.uk/buy-the-book/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tamsin Caine (00:06):
Hello and welcome to today's very special episode
of the Smart Divorce Podcast.
We have had a lot of interestin our previous episodes where
we've discussed divorce andnarcissism, and we are very
delighted to be joined today byIlaria Pedrucci.
My accent is nowhere near asbeautiful as Ilaria.
(00:30):
So I'm sure she'll say thatproperly for you in a few
minutes.
But Ilaria is a trauma coachand mountain guide who helps
women heal from the lastingeffects of narcissistic
relationships.
Drawing from her own personaljourney of breaking free and
rebuilding her life, she nowguides others to reconnect with
(00:52):
themselves through nature,hiking, and somatic healing.
Ilaria is here to share herstory and her journey on what it
truly means to heal afternarcissistic love.
I found uh Ilaria throughrandomly, a um friend of mine
who organized guided outdooradventures and was absolutely um
(01:17):
drawn to the work that she doeswith um with people who are
healing from um narcissisticabuse.
So I reached out to Ilaria andand uh asked and grovelled her
to come on the podcast and shareher experiences and how she
helps women so that um you canbenefit from this as well.
(01:38):
And she'll also tell you howyou can get hold of her.
Welcome, Ilaria.
Thank you so much for agreeingto come along onto the podcast.
Ilaria Petrucci (01:46):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's really exciting to be hereand to have the opportunity to
connect with you and whoever islistening.
Tamsin Caine (01:54):
Absolutely.
Um, so tell us why you are sopassionate, because I I feel
your passion every time I speakto you, but why you're so
passionate about helping peopleto heal from um from
narcissistic abuse inrelationships?
Ilaria Petrucci (02:12):
Well, my own story comes into play straight
away because obviously I comefrom experience.
I have been in a narcissistic,uh, emotionally abusive
relationship for about fouryears, which ended now in two in
2023, so almost three yearsago.
And just from my experiencenavigating that journey, that
(02:36):
pain, and then ultimately facingmy own dynamics, which is the
path that led me to actuallycome out of it and start my
healing journey towardsrebuilding myself and my own
strength and my own um inner umfinding again my inner joy and
what I want to do with my life,um, having lost myself in the
(02:59):
relationship for so long.
Um I know how number one, howisolating the experience can be.
And even though you might havefriends around that try to
understand, it doesn't alwayskind of work that way.
And it certainly didn't reallywork for me with the people I
had around at the time, um,which can be even more isolating
(03:23):
with people not understandingwhat you're going through,
dismissing your experience, andjust thinking that you can just
leave, which is a very uh commonthing to hear, rather than to
just leave if anything, whichmoney, don't get me wrong, it
makes perfect sense logically,but it doesn't quite work that
way.
So I remember as I, you know,on quite into my healing
(03:48):
journey, I started sharing mystory on Instagram, and the
response that I had from bothmen and women, to be fair, it
was completely overwhelming inthe best possible way.
And I thought, okay, maybe Ican contribute to this, and
there is something that I can doand use my experience and all
that I've been through in apositive way to kind of give
(04:10):
back and help kind of like bethe person that I wish I had
when I was going.
It sounds a bit cliche, butthat's exactly kind of like what
it is.
Um, and so I started with havewith continuing sharing my
story, and then one day Ithought, oh, I can maybe create,
you know, being um I wastraining to become a mountain
(04:33):
guide at the time.
I thought I can createsomething, maybe a monthly walk
that um women can come to um toconnect with each other and
create like a safe place wherewomen can feel understood,
regardless of what stage they'reat in this, you know, in this
journey.
And so I think it was um 27thof April uh well, it was it was
(04:59):
a year, the April just gone, so2024.
I started my healing throughhiking, which is a monthly walk
that we do is completely free,and we do it in Makassil Forest,
which is uh in the PeakDistrict.
Um, and it's like a four hourwalk.
We just um very simply meet,connect, walk.
(05:20):
Uh, we spend some time in theforest just in the silence, and
then we stop for coffee and cakeat the end.
And it has been incredible,like so many women have
connected with each other,they've connected with me, and
it's just like really beautifulto see people finding so much
benefit for from something sosimple, which is just being
(05:42):
understood and being aroundpeople that get it.
Tamsi (05:47):
yeah, absolutely. Crikey, so many questions um already on
on the things that you've said.
Um, I think the the first thingfor me, I'm gonna kind of start
with the end bit and then andthen work my way backwards to
the beginning, which might makenot make any sense.
But in terms of of walking andtalking when there's um when
(06:09):
you're in the middle of a veryemotional situation, and it's
like sitting in the car.
You don't have to have eyecontact with somebody if you're
side by side, and it makes itmuch easier to talk.
And so to me, that makes a hugeamount of sense.
Have you have you found peopleare more able to open up because
(06:31):
of that side by side ratherthan sitting opposite somebody?
Ilaria Petrucci (06:35):
I think I have heard that, and interestingly,
recently somebody has said thatit would be nice to do something
where they can sit in front ofeach other so that they can
connect more, which made methink about how like the
opposite is also true that maybewhen you don't know somebody
very well, it is easier to sharebecause there isn't that eye
(06:58):
contact.
But also, I think the fact ofbeing outdoors, having that
space around you, being in anenvironment that is neutral and
not judgmental, it just um itjust validates um your
experience, I think, and itallows you to just be yourself
without feeling judged.
And also obviously beingsurrounded by women that
(07:21):
understand what what you'regoing through.
Um, and another beautiful thingabout the walks is that there
is no pressure to share.
There is no, uh I remember oneof the women coming to my walks
said, Oh, I thought we weregoing to sit in a circle and
share our experience, whichdon't give me wrong, it might be
a great idea, but it doesn'twork like that.
(07:41):
We just literally walk andpeople connect with each other
if they choose to, they canshare whatever, wherever they
want.
So yeah, but the file I thinkthat definitely plays plays a
part in that, yeah.
Tamsin Caine (07:53):
Yeah, no, I love that.
I love that.
You talked quite a number oftimes, you mentioned the word a
word isolation in in your umwhen you were talking, and
isolation is a massive part ofnarcissistic abuse, isn't it?
So the the narcissistpurposefully isolates you from
friends and family.
That's part of the kind ofprocess and the playbook that a
(08:17):
narcissist will go through.
So that to anybody listeningwon't be a surprise that you
were feeling isolation andyou've seen other women feeling
isolation.
What I'm interested in is atwhat point you started to
realize because narcissisticabuse is subtle and it creeps up
(08:38):
on you very, very slowly.
At what point or was there aparticular um thing that
happened that made you realizethat actually this this isn't
right?
I don't feel like this is thisis where I should be.
Ilaria Petrucci (08:56):
Yeah, I mean, very earlier on in the
relationship, I yes, I I knew Ifelt the red flags probably
after the first date, if I'mcompletely honest with myself.
Um but obviously I ignored it,I played it down, I justified
it.
Um and then I didn't reallyname it um until 18 months into
(09:23):
the relationship, I startedtherapy because I was already
completely a shell of myself.
Um, I didn't know how tocontinue staying in this
relationship, and at the sametime, I just couldn't leave.
Um, and the reason that broughtme to therapy wasn't really to
(09:44):
um um to leave, it was to how doI change so that I can make
this work?
That that's what brought me totherapy in the first place.
And I remember it was one ofthe first sessions um with my
therapist, which I have beenwith from that day for the
following four years.
Tamsin Caine (10:06):
Wow.
Ilaria Petrucci (10:06):
Um still to this day, if I go to someone,
it'll be her.
And I remember her saying tome, um, she actually she said
the exact word, and she said,last session when we were
talking, I wrote down in my notedomestic abuse.
And I was like, no, what do youmean, domestic abuse?
(10:28):
It doesn't hit me, you know, itdoesn't, it never, you know, it
never pushes me, or maybe ithappened once that you push me,
but it doesn't hit me.
Um, and then from there, it'sthe first time that I kind of
started considering the conceptof emotional abuse, and then
I've learned more and more aboutnarcissism and and it kind of
(10:49):
like my awareness grew fromthere.
Um, but still from that moment,there was as I said, it was
about 18 months, uh say 20months into the relationship.
I stayed for another foranother two years uh plus some.
So it the journey is differentfrom everyone.
Um, but it's important to knowthat there is not a right or
(11:12):
wrong.
People go back and leave somany times.
Um, and you will get towherever you need to get in your
own time.
Tamsin Caine (11:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I believe that the um averagenumber of times to try and leave
an abusive relationship isseven.
So if that's your average, youcould be a lot less, you know,
you could be a lot less, but youcould be a lot more, and
seven's a lot, you know, a lotof times.
When and and please do stop meif I'm asking you things that
(11:43):
you don't want to answer, butwhen you decided that you needed
to leave this thisrelationship, did you formulate
a plan?
Did you did you go about it?
I know um I've talked to peoplewho who get things out of the
house in a sort of slow way whentheir partner's away.
(12:04):
And then when they're leaving,they've they kind of it can be
less of a big deal, they don'tneed to take a truckload with
them.
You know, their papers havegone, their passport's gone,
they're stored somewhere safeand so on.
And they have a a structuredplan that quite often they have
come to using their localdomestic abuse services.
(12:25):
Was it like that for you or anddid you and did you try and
leave a number of times?
Ilaria Petrucci (12:31):
Uh I did try and leave a number of times,
three times in total.
I think it's definitely a goodidea to have a plan.
And as you know, as we said,every situation is different.
In my case, the first timearound, I was living with him in
his house.
So I moved out, and I moved outuh only about 10 minutes away
(12:57):
from him, where the idea wasthat we would continue trying to
be together.
And then after that, weironically moved in together to
try and make it work, but wewere renting at the time, and
that didn't last very long.
So he then moved back out intowhere he was living before, and
(13:19):
then the third time he againmoved back in.
But at that point, I was, youknow, I was always like,
although I didn't own the house,I was the the owner, you know,
the owner, the main payer, howdo you want to say it?
Um, so it was just a matter ofhe left and went back to his his
his house, his mom's house,where he lived.
(13:41):
So yeah, so I would say itdidn't really take me a lot of
planning in that sense, like itwould maybe somebody else in a
different situation.
Tamsin Caine (13:50):
Of course.
And did he leave relativelywillingly the third time?
Ilaria Petrucci (13:57):
Every single time was a little bit different,
but how I always um kind ofperceive it in my mind, and when
I tell people, I do always feellike he was always very still
in their relationship.
And I was, I just imagine itlike it's in like me around the
running around him, trying to doeverything I possibly could to
(14:22):
make it work.
Like we lived together thefirst time was his place where
his mom lived.
And I was, I then I moved out,and then we moved in together.
But the whole time I was alwaysthe one in charge of all the
responsibilities, includingfinances, locations, everything.
(14:45):
And he didn't really do a lotin in that time besides just the
easy stuff, and I don't want tomake it sound like I I did
everything, but it kind of isthat way.
Um, so yes, he did he did leavewillingly, yeah.
Tamsin Caine (15:06):
That's good.
And in your recovery, can youtell me a little bit about how
you began the process ofrecovery?
What you were obviously havinghaving therapy and your
therapist sounds amazing.
I probably need to get herdetails for other kinds of but
um how did you how did you oncehe'd he'd moved out for the last
(15:29):
time and you in in it was youkind of drawing a line in sand,
you observed over, how did youbegin the process of recovery?
What sort of things did you do?
Ilaria Petrucci (15:39):
So the thing that kind of threw me into my
recovery and my healing wastaking responsibility for my
part and actually looking at I'mnot a victim here, I am at some
level, somehow for somereasons, choosing to stay in
(16:01):
this situation.
I am that somehow there is apart of me that causes love,
there is a part of me thattolerates this and accepts to be
treated this way.
So when I was able to look atmyself, so go from asking
myself, why does he treat methis way?
(16:21):
To what part of me causes love,what part of me accept this,
what makes me stay, um, that'swhen I started to really change.
Um, and the whole time I was, Irealized that I in the
relationship I was open for himto change, I was waiting for him
(16:43):
to change and for him tofinally choose me and do the
things that I wanted him to doand be so that I could have the
relationship that I wanted.
When actually the whole time Iwas the one that needed to
change.
I was the one that needed tolook at myself and my own
dynamics and my own choices thatI was making, my own childhood,
(17:05):
my own definition of love andsafety, all of that stuff.
Um, and when I did that, that'swhat allowed me to move forward
and and change.
Tamsin Caine (17:17):
Okay.
So you're just so as I can be100% clear and make and
understand what you're saying,you're not you're not blaming
yourself for his behavior, butyou're taking responsibility for
staying and allowing that realthat relationship.
Ilaria Petrucci (17:38):
Yeah.
Uh it's about seeing realityfor what it is rather than
sticking around somewhere hopingthat people will change.
People show you exactly whothey are by the way they behave.
But I didn't see that.
I listened, I believed hiswords because it was more
convenient, is what I like tohear better than seeing how he
(18:00):
actually was showing up in termsof behavior.
Um, but when I stripped downthis fantasy, when I realized
that this is not what it is, howI'm how I'm feeling about him
is so different to how I'mfeeling in the relationship,
then you see things for whatthey are.
(18:20):
And you also learn to, like yousaid, not blame yourself for
their behavior, but takeresponsibility for my own.
Tamsin Caine (18:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that that's a massivelyimportant distinction, isn't it?
Because we're not saying it,we're not saying it's your fault
for what's happening to you,because that's definitely not
the situation.
But but you're takingresponsibility for allowing that
treatment of yourself.
(18:50):
And we're also not saying it'seasy to leave either, because we
know that ending that, likechanging that that dynamic in
your head and ending arelationship which is prepped up
on you because we know they'resubtle and devious.
That's the whole playbook in ain a narcissistic relationship,
(19:10):
is that they're devious and itand they they work by creeping
up, and there's a verydistinctive playbook that that
is gone through.
And they do select a particularcharacter type who is kind,
who's empathetic, who's open andand you know, willing to make
(19:31):
changes.
You know, you said yourselffrom the beginning, you were
going to therapy from reallyearly on to change yourself in
the relationship to makepresumably to make him happy.
Ilaria Petrucci (19:44):
But that's what makes us the perfect match,
isn't it, with the some yeah,exactly, like perfect match,
obviously, you're not like this.
Um, but it is the it takessomebody who has codependency
and people pleasing dynamicsthat needs to give in order to
(20:08):
be okay with themselves, andthen we have a narcissist who
needs to take in order to beokay with themselves.
So much, much made in heaven.
Made in heaven.
Tamsin Caine (20:18):
Absolutely, just not just not for the people who
are on the receiving end of it.
Yeah.
Ilaria Petrucci (20:24):
But that's why, like you said, it's important,
very important distinction.
So I'm glad you brought it up.
It's not about blaming yourselffor their behavior because we
can't control how people treatus.
We can't control us, but we cancontrol whether we accept it or
not.
So it's more about takingresponsibility.
Somebody can treat you badlyonce, but if that continues, in
(20:46):
my case, over four years, um,then you kind of have to face,
okay, I am playing a part inthis, I'm allowing it.
But in taking responsibility,you find empowerment and you you
you reconnect with your power.
So the same way I'm allowingsomething I don't want, then I
can then change it and allowsomething different than I
(21:08):
actually do want.
And obviously, I don't mean tomake it sound really easy
because, like you said, we're inthat in that in between and the
different choice that you make,there is facing your attachment
style, your childhood, yourdefinition of love and safety.
So there is all of thesethings.
But I truly believe, and thisis like one of the biggest
(21:33):
reasons why I want to do thiswork, is for people to realize
that this journey is a journeyof rediscovering yourself,
finding your strength.
It's not just about healingfrom a heartbreak and getting
over somebody, because thatsomeone was a huge mirror to
(21:54):
allow us and give us theopportunity to heal dynamics and
things that have been within ussince way before then.
So I believe in finding thegift in this pain, in all of
this.
There is always a gift if we'rewilling to find it and see it.
(22:15):
And then from that gift, we cantruly find our joy and rebuild
our life better than like we wecould ever imagine.
My life today is nothing like Icould have even dreamed of
before.
Not just in the things that Iam up to nowadays, but also just
like how I feel about myself,which doesn't mean I don't have
(22:37):
bad days.
We all have bad mental healthdays.
Like I'm human, you know,everyone is.
But the way you deal with them,the way you relate to people
and relate to yourself is justcompletely different.
Tamsin Caine (22:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it it is reallyimportant to say that some of
those, some of the things thatattracts narcissists to people
are really beautiful things.
You know, kindness and empathy,we shouldn't lose that, but
there is work to be done onaspects of those type those
(23:16):
characteristics thatcharacterize people who tend to
be like that, like peoplepleasing.
Those are things that need tobe worked on and and to not drop
everything who about who youare, not start being a villain
when you've been a reallybeautiful person, but but to
(23:37):
make make them work better foryou and please yourself rather
than rather going outside.
Ilaria Petrucci (23:43):
Because I think another great distinction is
that people pleasing and beingkind is different.
And this is another thing,another big moment for me that I
had to face when I thought Iwas just being kind by saying
yes when I meant no.
Actually, I wasn't.
I and that's when you startlooking at your dynamics.
The reason why I am saying yeswhen I mean no, and therefore
(24:07):
losing myself in that process,because this is how we lose
ourselves.
You know, a lot of people talkabout I'm losing, I've lost
myself in the relationship.
So, how do we do that?
We did that by betrayingourselves, so our authenticity
and choosing attachment overauthenticity.
This is how we lose ourselves,and then that's where the people
(24:30):
pleasing come in.
I don't say yes when I want tosay no because I'm kind, I'm
saying yes when I want to sayno, because if I was to say no,
then what?
Like what do I have to be with?
And whatever discomfort isthere in saying no, this is what
I'm avoiding within myself inthe process of saying yes.
(24:52):
So that's people pleasing, andthat's a huge pattern that needs
to be looked at.
Being kind would mean kindlysaying, no, I am not available.
Can we look at another date?
Or uh this doesn't work for me.
That's being kind because youare being honest with yourself
and with the person you'redealing with.
(25:14):
So that was another huge thingthat I had to look with in
myself.
Tamsin Caine (25:20):
It's really interesting talking about this.
And I will I will go on to askyou the question I was going to
ask you, but but I think thewhole people pleasing discussion
is really interesting.
And it's something that um Ihad this conversation with one
of my colleagues some time agobecause I am I am a A-grade
people pleaser, it's not a goodthing.
(25:41):
Um, and and I spend a hugeamount of my life trying to make
other people, like trying tomake other people happy, trying
to please other people at thedetriment of myself quite often.
And what my colleague said tome was, why don't you try and
think about instead ofshort-term people pleasing,
(26:04):
think about long-term peoplepleasing.
Because actually, if you sayyes to things that you don't
really want to do, what you'redoing is is creating a
relationship on dishonesty.
Whereas actually in the longerterm, if you say no when you
mean no, you're creating alonger relationship of based on
(26:27):
honesty instead, which actuallyis just about being honest with
yourself and being honest withother people rather than saying
yes at that very minute, whichmight be short-term gain,
actually, in the long term,you're you're not forging a
relationship based on trust andhonesty.
So for me, my people-pleasingbrain just reframes it.
(26:50):
I am still able to please thatperson and do the right thing
for that.
And it could be it'sfriendships with me as well as
relationships, and doing theright thing for the long term of
that of that friendship ratherthan doing the right thing and
people pleasing the immediatefriendship, which uh kind of
works for me if I sort ofreframe it a little bit.
(27:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Moving on.
So you in terms of your healingjourney, I'm interested in
that.
So you were already seeing acounselor therapist from when
you were within therelationship.
Was there anything else thatyou did to begin your healing
process after the relationshipended?
Ilaria Petrucci (27:30):
Uh I started hiking.
That was the main thing aswell.
That really helped me.
Um, well, I started walking umuh when did I start during
COVID, I think, mostly likeduring t.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, and it was just um it wasjust such a special time to just
be out and be able to breatheand be surrounded by so much
(27:55):
space without feeling justwithout feeling afraid to do
something wrong.
That was um that was so simpleagain and so healing.
And I just started walkinglocally, um, you know, living
very lucky to live in the PeakDistrict.
So I could literally just comeout of my cottage where I lived
at the time and be in the hills.
(28:16):
Um, and actually the healingthrough I can walk that I do
every month, it is part of thewalk that I used to do um, well,
definitely every week, morethan once a week, usually, um,
where I would just need to go toto to this place to the forest
to just um feeling connectingwith myself and just feel like I
(28:40):
could breathe again and feelsafe.
And um, and then from there Istarted doing mountain walking,
and then in August 2022, Ibelieve, I joined my first group
hike in North Wales.
I made some lovely friends thatI'm still in contact with
today.
Um, and then from there I justdecided to um train and become a
(29:04):
mountain guide and um and tobecome a qualified mountain
guide, which is pretty cool.
Tamsin Caine (29:09):
That's incredible.
That is so gosh.
I think there's somethingimmensely special about being
out in nature and particularlyon a hill.
And again, another of mycolleagues said to me a while,
it was quite a while ago, andthey she lives on a mountain in
Spain, I should I should add.
(29:31):
But um, she'd always felt umconstrained and um
claustrophobic in the in thetown that we live in.
And it it sort of struck mebecause if I look out of my back
window, I'm incredibly lucky,I've got a beautiful, decent
sized garden, but all I can seepast my garden is houses.
(29:54):
I can't see kind of space, andand if you climb to Top of a
hill, even part way up, if youlook back, what you can see is
space and sky and fields and andperhaps water, and and it's
that feeling of being in theopen air, and that feeling of
(30:16):
space is hugely healing in allsorts of ways, isn't it?
Ilaria Petrucci (30:20):
Yeah, it's incredible just even but even
just the journey getting up tothe summit.
Um, I think hiking is a lotabout your like facing yourself
in a different way.
Um, there is so much,obviously, that there's a
physical side of it because it'squite tough going if you're
going uphill for a number ofhours.
(30:42):
Um, but also the mental side,which is, you know, having
guided people over the past fewyears, um, that's the mental
side that usually people findthis so hard with.
Um, which is again, it's a it'sa great journey within, you
know, inside yourself and uh toreally see what you're made of
(31:04):
and what you're capable of,because we are capable of so
much more than we think.
Tamsin Caine (31:09):
Absolutely.
Oh, you can definitely talkyourself out of things, you
know.
You can think, oh, there's noway I can possibly do that, but
but you challenge yourself andget and succeed.
Ilaria Petrucci (31:20):
Yeah, and we bring all of that um reward and
like sense of achievement withus in our normal life.
That's the gift of themountains.
The mountains, again, they're amirror, isn't it?
They show you who you are, theyshow you what you can do, and
perhaps what you can't do,because it shows us our
(31:40):
limitations as well.
It teaches you to trustyourself with your decision with
your decision.
This is, I always say, this ismy superpower in the mountains.
I trust myself with mydecisions to whether I need to
turn around, whether I don't goto the mountains at all, if the
weather is, you know, notlooking safe.
Um and you bring all of thatlessons, all of that learning
(32:06):
into your own life.
And then you find yourself, youknow, if if I didn't think I
could do it, but I can do it,maybe I could do this too.
Or a lot of times when I guide,I guide mostly women.
My hikes are usually mostlywomen's only, and they look
ahead at the path if we um, youknow, if we have a view and
(32:26):
they're like, oh, it looks sotough, but the things always
look harder, most of the times,anyway, they look harder than
things seems.
And when you are there, youjust approach it one step at a
time, just one step at a time,one breath at a time, one good
thought at a time.
And and then they get to thesummit, and the best thing at
(32:47):
the beginning, I used to feellike they look at you like, I
did it, you know.
I I left the swear words out,but like I did it, you know.
And it is so rewarding to justsee them so proud of themselves.
I absolutely love it.
Tamsin Caine (33:03):
Yeah, it's a good lesson for life taking one step
and one breath at a time.
That's all we can do, really.
Get through those, uh getthrough those stages.
It's been incredible to talk toyou, Ilaria.
I'm sure that lots of thepeople listening would want to
get in touch with you and putpotentially if they're local
enough to join your monthlyhikes.
How do they get hold of you?
(33:24):
How do they join your hikes?
Ilaria Petrucci (33:26):
Yeah, I love women join my hike.
I've had people driving afterthe Peak District from Essex,
Cambridge, like people travelfrom everywhere.
So they show everythingflipping.
Yes, it's great.
Um, so my website is umhttps://her-wild-adventures.mailchimpsites.com/,
I believe.
Well, put it in the show notes.
(33:48):
Um and my Instagram is mylifeas
ila https://www.instagram.com/mylifeasila ,which is I L A at the end.
Um and Healing Through Hikinghas actually just yesterday been
approved to be a CAC company,which means a non-profit.
So hopefully I'll be able to doso much more than just a once a
(34:11):
month um free walk.
So I'm planning to doworkshops, I'm planning to do uh
retreats and day hikes, allaimed around supporting each
other and healing fromnarcissistic abuse.
So I'm very excited for what'scoming.
Tamsin Caine (34:27):
Oh, that's absolutely fantastic, and
congratulations on that news.
That is really incredible.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
I'm sure that would beincredibly useful for many of
our listeners and viewers.
And thank you for joining metoday.
It's been lovely to have yourcompany.
If you've enjoyed ourconversation, please do give us
(34:47):
a five-star review because itdoes help us to get the message
out to more people.
Many thanks and we'll see yousoon.
Hi, and I hope you enjoyed thatepisode of the Smart Divorce
Podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
show notes for our details orgo onto the website
(35:09):
www.smartdivorce.co.uk.
Also, if you are listening onApple Podcasts or on Spotify and
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review, that
would be fantastic.
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
(35:29):
divorce, and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
It's called Separation, Divorceand Dissolution UK.
Please do go on to Facebook,search up the group, and we'd be
delighted to have you join us.
Um, the one thing I would sayis do please answer their
(35:52):
membership questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
Hello and welcome to today's very special episode
of the Smart Divorce Podcast.
We have had a lot of interestin our previous episodes where
we've discussed divorce andnarcissism, and we are very
delighted to be joined today byIlaria Pedrucci.
My accent is nowhere near asbeautiful as Ilaria.
(00:30):
So I'm sure she'll say thatproperly for you in a few
minutes.
But Ilaria is a trauma coachand mountain guide who helps
women heal from the lastingeffects of narcissistic
relationships.
Drawing from her own personaljourney of breaking free and
rebuilding her life, she nowguides others to reconnect with
(00:52):
themselves through nature,hiking, and somatic healing.
Ilaria is here to share herstory and her journey on what it
truly means to heal afternarcissistic love.
I found uh Ilaria throughrandomly, a um friend of mine
who organized guided outdooradventures and was absolutely um
(01:17):
drawn to the work that she doeswith um with people who are
healing from um narcissisticabuse.
So I reached out to Ilaria andand uh asked and grovelled her
to come on the podcast and shareher experiences and how she
helps women so that um you canbenefit from this as well.
(01:38):
And she'll also tell you howyou can get hold of her.
Welcome, Ilaria.
Thank you so much for agreeingto come along onto the podcast.
Ilaria Petrucci (01:46):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's really exciting to be hereand to have the opportunity to
connect with you and whoever islistening.
Tamsin Caine (01:54):
Absolutely.
Um, so tell us why you are sopassionate, because I I feel
your passion every time I speakto you, but why you're so
passionate about helping peopleto heal from um from
narcissistic abuse inrelationships?
Ilaria Petrucci (02:12):
Well, my own story comes into play straight
away because obviously I comefrom experience.
I have been in a narcissistic,uh, emotionally abusive
relationship for about fouryears, which ended now in two in
2023, so almost three yearsago.
And just from my experiencenavigating that journey, that
(02:36):
pain, and then ultimately facingmy own dynamics, which is the
path that led me to actuallycome out of it and start my
healing journey towardsrebuilding myself and my own
strength and my own um inner umfinding again my inner joy and
what I want to do with my life,um, having lost myself in the
(02:59):
relationship for so long.
Um I know how number one, howisolating the experience can be.
And even though you might havefriends around that try to
understand, it doesn't alwayskind of work that way.
And it certainly didn't reallywork for me with the people I
had around at the time, um,which can be even more isolating
(03:23):
with people not understandingwhat you're going through,
dismissing your experience, andjust thinking that you can just
leave, which is a very uh commonthing to hear, rather than to
just leave if anything, whichmoney, don't get me wrong, it
makes perfect sense logically,but it doesn't quite work that
way.
So I remember as I, you know,on quite into my healing
(03:48):
journey, I started sharing mystory on Instagram, and the
response that I had from bothmen and women, to be fair, it
was completely overwhelming inthe best possible way.
And I thought, okay, maybe Ican contribute to this, and
there is something that I can doand use my experience and all
that I've been through in apositive way to kind of give
(04:10):
back and help kind of like bethe person that I wish I had
when I was going.
It sounds a bit cliche, butthat's exactly kind of like what
it is.
Um, and so I started with havewith continuing sharing my
story, and then one day Ithought, oh, I can maybe create,
you know, being um I wastraining to become a mountain
(04:33):
guide at the time.
I thought I can createsomething, maybe a monthly walk
that um women can come to um toconnect with each other and
create like a safe place wherewomen can feel understood,
regardless of what stage they'reat in this, you know, in this
journey.
And so I think it was um 27thof April uh well, it was it was
(04:59):
a year, the April just gone, so2024.
I started my healing throughhiking, which is a monthly walk
that we do is completely free,and we do it in Makassil Forest,
which is uh in the PeakDistrict.
Um, and it's like a four hourwalk.
We just um very simply meet,connect, walk.
(05:20):
Uh, we spend some time in theforest just in the silence, and
then we stop for coffee and cakeat the end.
And it has been incredible,like so many women have
connected with each other,they've connected with me, and
it's just like really beautifulto see people finding so much
benefit for from something sosimple, which is just being
(05:42):
understood and being aroundpeople that get it.
Tamsi (05:47):
yeah, absolutely. Crikey, so many questions um already on
on the things that you've said.
Um, I think the the first thingfor me, I'm gonna kind of start
with the end bit and then andthen work my way backwards to
the beginning, which might makenot make any sense.
But in terms of of walking andtalking when there's um when
(06:09):
you're in the middle of a veryemotional situation, and it's
like sitting in the car.
You don't have to have eyecontact with somebody if you're
side by side, and it makes itmuch easier to talk.
And so to me, that makes a hugeamount of sense.
Have you have you found peopleare more able to open up because
(06:31):
of that side by side ratherthan sitting opposite somebody?
Ilaria Petrucci (06:35):
I think I have heard that, and interestingly,
recently somebody has said thatit would be nice to do something
where they can sit in front ofeach other so that they can
connect more, which made methink about how like the
opposite is also true that maybewhen you don't know somebody
very well, it is easier to sharebecause there isn't that eye
(06:58):
contact.
But also, I think the fact ofbeing outdoors, having that
space around you, being in anenvironment that is neutral and
not judgmental, it just um itjust validates um your
experience, I think, and itallows you to just be yourself
without feeling judged.
And also obviously beingsurrounded by women that
(07:21):
understand what what you'regoing through.
Um, and another beautiful thingabout the walks is that there
is no pressure to share.
There is no, uh I remember oneof the women coming to my walks
said, Oh, I thought we weregoing to sit in a circle and
share our experience, whichdon't give me wrong, it might be
a great idea, but it doesn'twork like that.
(07:41):
We just literally walk andpeople connect with each other
if they choose to, they canshare whatever, wherever they
want.
So yeah, but the file I thinkthat definitely plays plays a
part in that, yeah.
Tamsin Caine (07:53):
Yeah, no, I love that.
I love that.
You talked quite a number oftimes, you mentioned the word a
word isolation in in your umwhen you were talking, and
isolation is a massive part ofnarcissistic abuse, isn't it?
So the the narcissistpurposefully isolates you from
friends and family.
That's part of the kind ofprocess and the playbook that a
(08:17):
narcissist will go through.
So that to anybody listeningwon't be a surprise that you
were feeling isolation andyou've seen other women feeling
isolation.
What I'm interested in is atwhat point you started to
realize because narcissisticabuse is subtle and it creeps up
(08:38):
on you very, very slowly.
At what point or was there aparticular um thing that
happened that made you realizethat actually this this isn't
right?
I don't feel like this is thisis where I should be.
Ilaria Petrucci (08:56):
Yeah, I mean, very earlier on in the
relationship, I yes, I I knew Ifelt the red flags probably
after the first date, if I'mcompletely honest with myself.
Um but obviously I ignored it,I played it down, I justified
it.
Um and then I didn't reallyname it um until 18 months into
(09:23):
the relationship, I startedtherapy because I was already
completely a shell of myself.
Um, I didn't know how tocontinue staying in this
relationship, and at the sametime, I just couldn't leave.
Um, and the reason that broughtme to therapy wasn't really to
(09:44):
um um to leave, it was to how doI change so that I can make
this work?
That that's what brought me totherapy in the first place.
And I remember it was one ofthe first sessions um with my
therapist, which I have beenwith from that day for the
following four years.
Tamsin Caine (10:06):
Wow.
Ilaria Petrucci (10:06):
Um still to this day, if I go to someone,
it'll be her.
And I remember her saying tome, um, she actually she said
the exact word, and she said,last session when we were
talking, I wrote down in my notedomestic abuse.
And I was like, no, what do youmean, domestic abuse?
(10:28):
It doesn't hit me, you know, itdoesn't, it never, you know, it
never pushes me, or maybe ithappened once that you push me,
but it doesn't hit me.
Um, and then from there, it'sthe first time that I kind of
started considering the conceptof emotional abuse, and then
I've learned more and more aboutnarcissism and and it kind of
(10:49):
like my awareness grew fromthere.
Um, but still from that moment,there was as I said, it was
about 18 months, uh say 20months into the relationship.
I stayed for another foranother two years uh plus some.
So it the journey is differentfrom everyone.
Um, but it's important to knowthat there is not a right or
(11:12):
wrong.
People go back and leave somany times.
Um, and you will get towherever you need to get in your
own time.
Tamsin Caine (11:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I believe that the um averagenumber of times to try and leave
an abusive relationship isseven.
So if that's your average, youcould be a lot less, you know,
you could be a lot less, but youcould be a lot more, and
seven's a lot, you know, a lotof times.
When and and please do stop meif I'm asking you things that
(11:43):
you don't want to answer, butwhen you decided that you needed
to leave this thisrelationship, did you formulate
a plan?
Did you did you go about it?
I know um I've talked to peoplewho who get things out of the
house in a sort of slow way whentheir partner's away.
(12:04):
And then when they're leaving,they've they kind of it can be
less of a big deal, they don'tneed to take a truckload with
them.
You know, their papers havegone, their passport's gone,
they're stored somewhere safeand so on.
And they have a a structuredplan that quite often they have
come to using their localdomestic abuse services.
(12:25):
Was it like that for you or anddid you and did you try and
leave a number of times?
Ilaria Petrucci (12:31):
Uh I did try and leave a number of times,
three times in total.
I think it's definitely a goodidea to have a plan.
And as you know, as we said,every situation is different.
In my case, the first timearound, I was living with him in
his house.
So I moved out, and I moved outuh only about 10 minutes away
(12:57):
from him, where the idea wasthat we would continue trying to
be together.
And then after that, weironically moved in together to
try and make it work, but wewere renting at the time, and
that didn't last very long.
So he then moved back out intowhere he was living before, and
(13:19):
then the third time he againmoved back in.
But at that point, I was, youknow, I was always like,
although I didn't own the house,I was the the owner, you know,
the owner, the main payer, howdo you want to say it?
Um, so it was just a matter ofhe left and went back to his his
his house, his mom's house,where he lived.
(13:41):
So yeah, so I would say itdidn't really take me a lot of
planning in that sense, like itwould maybe somebody else in a
different situation.
Tamsin Caine (13:50):
Of course.
And did he leave relativelywillingly the third time?
Ilaria Petrucci (13:57):
Every single time was a little bit different,
but how I always um kind ofperceive it in my mind, and when
I tell people, I do always feellike he was always very still
in their relationship.
And I was, I just imagine itlike it's in like me around the
running around him, trying to doeverything I possibly could to
(14:22):
make it work.
Like we lived together thefirst time was his place where
his mom lived.
And I was, I then I moved out,and then we moved in together.
But the whole time I was alwaysthe one in charge of all the
responsibilities, includingfinances, locations, everything.
(14:45):
And he didn't really do a lotin in that time besides just the
easy stuff, and I don't want tomake it sound like I I did
everything, but it kind of isthat way.
Um, so yes, he did he did leavewillingly, yeah.
Tamsin Caine (15:06):
That's good.
And in your recovery, can youtell me a little bit about how
you began the process ofrecovery?
What you were obviously havinghaving therapy and your
therapist sounds amazing.
I probably need to get herdetails for other kinds of but
um how did you how did you oncehe'd he'd moved out for the last
(15:29):
time and you in in it was youkind of drawing a line in sand,
you observed over, how did youbegin the process of recovery?
What sort of things did you do?
Ilaria Petrucci (15:39):
So the thing that kind of threw me into my
recovery and my healing wastaking responsibility for my
part and actually looking at I'mnot a victim here, I am at some
level, somehow for somereasons, choosing to stay in
(16:01):
this situation.
I am that somehow there is apart of me that causes love,
there is a part of me thattolerates this and accepts to be
treated this way.
So when I was able to look atmyself, so go from asking
myself, why does he treat methis way?
(16:21):
To what part of me causes love,what part of me accept this,
what makes me stay, um, that'swhen I started to really change.
Um, and the whole time I was, Irealized that I in the
relationship I was open for himto change, I was waiting for him
(16:43):
to change and for him tofinally choose me and do the
things that I wanted him to doand be so that I could have the
relationship that I wanted.
When actually the whole time Iwas the one that needed to
change.
I was the one that needed tolook at myself and my own
dynamics and my own choices thatI was making, my own childhood,
(17:05):
my own definition of love andsafety, all of that stuff.
Um, and when I did that, that'swhat allowed me to move forward
and and change.
Tamsin Caine (17:17):
Okay.
So you're just so as I can be100% clear and make and
understand what you're saying,you're not you're not blaming
yourself for his behavior, butyou're taking responsibility for
staying and allowing that realthat relationship.
Ilaria Petrucci (17:38):
Yeah.
Uh it's about seeing realityfor what it is rather than
sticking around somewhere hopingthat people will change.
People show you exactly whothey are by the way they behave.
But I didn't see that.
I listened, I believed hiswords because it was more
convenient, is what I like tohear better than seeing how he
(18:00):
actually was showing up in termsof behavior.
Um, but when I stripped downthis fantasy, when I realized
that this is not what it is, howI'm how I'm feeling about him
is so different to how I'mfeeling in the relationship,
then you see things for whatthey are.
(18:20):
And you also learn to, like yousaid, not blame yourself for
their behavior, but takeresponsibility for my own.
Tamsin Caine (18:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that that's a massivelyimportant distinction, isn't it?
Because we're not saying it,we're not saying it's your fault
for what's happening to you,because that's definitely not
the situation.
But but you're takingresponsibility for allowing that
treatment of yourself.
(18:50):
And we're also not saying it'seasy to leave either, because we
know that ending that, likechanging that that dynamic in
your head and ending arelationship which is prepped up
on you because we know they'resubtle and devious.
That's the whole playbook in ain a narcissistic relationship,
(19:10):
is that they're devious and itand they they work by creeping
up, and there's a verydistinctive playbook that that
is gone through.
And they do select a particularcharacter type who is kind,
who's empathetic, who's open andand you know, willing to make
(19:31):
changes.
You know, you said yourselffrom the beginning, you were
going to therapy from reallyearly on to change yourself in
the relationship to makepresumably to make him happy.
Ilaria Petrucci (19:44):
But that's what makes us the perfect match,
isn't it, with the some yeah,exactly, like perfect match,
obviously, you're not like this.
Um, but it is the it takessomebody who has codependency
and people pleasing dynamicsthat needs to give in order to
(20:08):
be okay with themselves, andthen we have a narcissist who
needs to take in order to beokay with themselves.
So much, much made in heaven.
Made in heaven.
Tamsin Caine (20:18):
Absolutely, just not just not for the people who
are on the receiving end of it.
Yeah.
Ilaria Petrucci (20:24):
But that's why, like you said, it's important,
very important distinction.
So I'm glad you brought it up.
It's not about blaming yourselffor their behavior because we
can't control how people treatus.
We can't control us, but we cancontrol whether we accept it or
not.
So it's more about takingresponsibility.
Somebody can treat you badlyonce, but if that continues, in
(20:46):
my case, over four years, um,then you kind of have to face,
okay, I am playing a part inthis, I'm allowing it.
But in taking responsibility,you find empowerment and you you
you reconnect with your power.
So the same way I'm allowingsomething I don't want, then I
can then change it and allowsomething different than I
(21:08):
actually do want.
And obviously, I don't mean tomake it sound really easy
because, like you said, we're inthat in that in between and the
different choice that you make,there is facing your attachment
style, your childhood, yourdefinition of love and safety.
So there is all of thesethings.
But I truly believe, and thisis like one of the biggest
(21:33):
reasons why I want to do thiswork, is for people to realize
that this journey is a journeyof rediscovering yourself,
finding your strength.
It's not just about healingfrom a heartbreak and getting
over somebody, because thatsomeone was a huge mirror to
(21:54):
allow us and give us theopportunity to heal dynamics and
things that have been within ussince way before then.
So I believe in finding thegift in this pain, in all of
this.
There is always a gift if we'rewilling to find it and see it.
(22:15):
And then from that gift, we cantruly find our joy and rebuild
our life better than like we wecould ever imagine.
My life today is nothing like Icould have even dreamed of
before.
Not just in the things that Iam up to nowadays, but also just
like how I feel about myself,which doesn't mean I don't have
(22:37):
bad days.
We all have bad mental healthdays.
Like I'm human, you know,everyone is.
But the way you deal with them,the way you relate to people
and relate to yourself is justcompletely different.
Tamsin Caine (22:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it it is reallyimportant to say that some of
those, some of the things thatattracts narcissists to people
are really beautiful things.
You know, kindness and empathy,we shouldn't lose that, but
there is work to be done onaspects of those type those
(23:16):
characteristics thatcharacterize people who tend to
be like that, like peoplepleasing.
Those are things that need tobe worked on and and to not drop
everything who about who youare, not start being a villain
when you've been a reallybeautiful person, but but to
(23:37):
make make them work better foryou and please yourself rather
than rather going outside.
Ilaria Petrucci (23:43):
Because I think another great distinction is
that people pleasing and beingkind is different.
And this is another thing,another big moment for me that I
had to face when I thought Iwas just being kind by saying
yes when I meant no.
Actually, I wasn't.
I and that's when you startlooking at your dynamics.
The reason why I am saying yeswhen I mean no, and therefore
(24:07):
losing myself in that process,because this is how we lose
ourselves.
You know, a lot of people talkabout I'm losing, I've lost
myself in the relationship.
So, how do we do that?
We did that by betrayingourselves, so our authenticity
and choosing attachment overauthenticity.
This is how we lose ourselves,and then that's where the people
(24:30):
pleasing come in.
I don't say yes when I want tosay no because I'm kind, I'm
saying yes when I want to sayno, because if I was to say no,
then what?
Like what do I have to be with?
And whatever discomfort isthere in saying no, this is what
I'm avoiding within myself inthe process of saying yes.
(24:52):
So that's people pleasing, andthat's a huge pattern that needs
to be looked at.
Being kind would mean kindlysaying, no, I am not available.
Can we look at another date?
Or uh this doesn't work for me.
That's being kind because youare being honest with yourself
and with the person you'redealing with.
(25:14):
So that was another huge thingthat I had to look with in
myself.
Tamsin Caine (25:20):
It's really interesting talking about this.
And I will I will go on to askyou the question I was going to
ask you, but but I think thewhole people pleasing discussion
is really interesting.
And it's something that um Ihad this conversation with one
of my colleagues some time agobecause I am I am a A-grade
people pleaser, it's not a goodthing.
(25:41):
Um, and and I spend a hugeamount of my life trying to make
other people, like trying tomake other people happy, trying
to please other people at thedetriment of myself quite often.
And what my colleague said tome was, why don't you try and
think about instead ofshort-term people pleasing,
(26:04):
think about long-term peoplepleasing.
Because actually, if you sayyes to things that you don't
really want to do, what you'redoing is is creating a
relationship on dishonesty.
Whereas actually in the longerterm, if you say no when you
mean no, you're creating alonger relationship of based on
(26:27):
honesty instead, which actuallyis just about being honest with
yourself and being honest withother people rather than saying
yes at that very minute, whichmight be short-term gain,
actually, in the long term,you're you're not forging a
relationship based on trust andhonesty.
So for me, my people-pleasingbrain just reframes it.
(26:50):
I am still able to please thatperson and do the right thing
for that.
And it could be it'sfriendships with me as well as
relationships, and doing theright thing for the long term of
that of that friendship ratherthan doing the right thing and
people pleasing the immediatefriendship, which uh kind of
works for me if I sort ofreframe it a little bit.
(27:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Moving on.
So you in terms of your healingjourney, I'm interested in
that.
So you were already seeing acounselor therapist from when
you were within therelationship.
Was there anything else thatyou did to begin your healing
process after the relationshipended?
Ilaria Petrucci (27:30):
Uh I started hiking.
That was the main thing aswell.
That really helped me.
Um, well, I started walking umuh when did I start during
COVID, I think, mostly likeduring t.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, and it was just um it wasjust such a special time to just
be out and be able to breatheand be surrounded by so much
(27:55):
space without feeling justwithout feeling afraid to do
something wrong.
That was um that was so simpleagain and so healing.
And I just started walkinglocally, um, you know, living
very lucky to live in the PeakDistrict.
So I could literally just comeout of my cottage where I lived
at the time and be in the hills.
(28:16):
Um, and actually the healingthrough I can walk that I do
every month, it is part of thewalk that I used to do um, well,
definitely every week, morethan once a week, usually, um,
where I would just need to go toto to this place to the forest
to just um feeling connectingwith myself and just feel like I
(28:40):
could breathe again and feelsafe.
And um, and then from there Istarted doing mountain walking,
and then in August 2022, Ibelieve, I joined my first group
hike in North Wales.
I made some lovely friends thatI'm still in contact with
today.
Um, and then from there I justdecided to um train and become a
(29:04):
mountain guide and um and tobecome a qualified mountain
guide, which is pretty cool.
Tamsin Caine (29:09):
That's incredible.
That is so gosh.
I think there's somethingimmensely special about being
out in nature and particularlyon a hill.
And again, another of mycolleagues said to me a while,
it was quite a while ago, andthey she lives on a mountain in
Spain, I should I should add.
(29:31):
But um, she'd always felt umconstrained and um
claustrophobic in the in thetown that we live in.
And it it sort of struck mebecause if I look out of my back
window, I'm incredibly lucky,I've got a beautiful, decent
sized garden, but all I can seepast my garden is houses.
(29:54):
I can't see kind of space, andand if you climb to Top of a
hill, even part way up, if youlook back, what you can see is
space and sky and fields and andperhaps water, and and it's
that feeling of being in theopen air, and that feeling of
(30:16):
space is hugely healing in allsorts of ways, isn't it?
Ilaria Petrucci (30:20):
Yeah, it's incredible just even but even
just the journey getting up tothe summit.
Um, I think hiking is a lotabout your like facing yourself
in a different way.
Um, there is so much,obviously, that there's a
physical side of it because it'squite tough going if you're
going uphill for a number ofhours.
(30:42):
Um, but also the mental side,which is, you know, having
guided people over the past fewyears, um, that's the mental
side that usually people findthis so hard with.
Um, which is again, it's a it'sa great journey within, you
know, inside yourself and uh toreally see what you're made of
(31:04):
and what you're capable of,because we are capable of so
much more than we think.
Tamsin Caine (31:09):
Absolutely.
Oh, you can definitely talkyourself out of things, you
know.
You can think, oh, there's noway I can possibly do that, but
but you challenge yourself andget and succeed.
Ilaria Petrucci (31:20):
Yeah, and we bring all of that um reward and
like sense of achievement withus in our normal life.
That's the gift of themountains.
The mountains, again, they're amirror, isn't it?
They show you who you are, theyshow you what you can do, and
perhaps what you can't do,because it shows us our
(31:40):
limitations as well.
It teaches you to trustyourself with your decision with
your decision.
This is, I always say, this ismy superpower in the mountains.
I trust myself with mydecisions to whether I need to
turn around, whether I don't goto the mountains at all, if the
weather is, you know, notlooking safe.
Um and you bring all of thatlessons, all of that learning
(32:06):
into your own life.
And then you find yourself, youknow, if if I didn't think I
could do it, but I can do it,maybe I could do this too.
Or a lot of times when I guide,I guide mostly women.
My hikes are usually mostlywomen's only, and they look
ahead at the path if we um, youknow, if we have a view and
(32:26):
they're like, oh, it looks sotough, but the things always
look harder, most of the times,anyway, they look harder than
things seems.
And when you are there, youjust approach it one step at a
time, just one step at a time,one breath at a time, one good
thought at a time.
And and then they get to thesummit, and the best thing at
(32:47):
the beginning, I used to feellike they look at you like, I
did it, you know.
I I left the swear words out,but like I did it, you know.
And it is so rewarding to justsee them so proud of themselves.
I absolutely love it.
Tamsin Caine (33:03):
Yeah, it's a good lesson for life taking one step
and one breath at a time.
That's all we can do, really.
Get through those, uh getthrough those stages.
It's been incredible to talk toyou, Ilaria.
I'm sure that lots of thepeople listening would want to
get in touch with you and putpotentially if they're local
enough to join your monthlyhikes.
How do they get hold of you?
(33:24):
How do they join your hikes?
Ilaria Petrucci (33:26):
Yeah, I love women join my hike.
I've had people driving afterthe Peak District from Essex,
Cambridge, like people travelfrom everywhere.
So they show everythingflipping.
Yes, it's great.
Um, so my website is umhttps://her-wild-adventures.mailchimpsites.com/,
I believe.
Well, put it in the show notes.
(33:48):
Um and my Instagram is mylifeas
ila https://www.instagram.com/mylifeasila ,which is I L A at the end.
Um and Healing Through Hikinghas actually just yesterday been
approved to be a CAC company,which means a non-profit.
So hopefully I'll be able to doso much more than just a once a
(34:11):
month um free walk.
So I'm planning to doworkshops, I'm planning to do uh
retreats and day hikes, allaimed around supporting each
other and healing fromnarcissistic abuse.
So I'm very excited for what'scoming.
Tamsin Caine (34:27):
Oh, that's absolutely fantastic, and
congratulations on that news.
That is really incredible.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
I'm sure that would beincredibly useful for many of
our listeners and viewers.
And thank you for joining metoday.
It's been lovely to have yourcompany.
If you've enjoyed ourconversation, please do give us
(34:47):
a five-star review because itdoes help us to get the message
out to more people.
Many thanks and we'll see yousoon.
Hi, and I hope you enjoyed thatepisode of the Smart Divorce
Podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
show notes for our details orgo onto the website
(35:09):
www.smartdivorce.co.uk.
Also, if you are listening onApple Podcasts or on Spotify and
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review, that
would be fantastic.
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
(35:29):
divorce, and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
It's called Separation, Divorceand Dissolution UK.
Please do go on to Facebook,search up the group, and we'd be
delighted to have you join us.
Um, the one thing I would sayis do please answer their
(35:52):
membership questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
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