August 8, 2025 • 34 mins
Helen Stuart is our guest on this important, though difficult topic. This episode explores prevention strategies and practical support for young people struggling with suicidal thoughts.
Helen Stuart
Helen has always advocated for good mental health, and vocalised the importance of ease of access to mental health support throughout her career. This has seen her working across community, outreach, counselling and domestic abuse prevention roles. Now Helen brings her wealth of knowledge, managerial experience through TLC: Talk, Listen, Change, and personal connections to mental health to drive Now You’re Talking’s success.
Helen is passionate about leading a socially responsible, business for good, enabling contributions to made back to TLC making the charity’s mission possible.
Samaritans
Mind
Campaign Against Living Miserably
Tamsin Caine
Tamsin is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.
You can contact Tamsin at tamsin@smartdivorce.co.uk or arrange a free initial meeting using https://bit.ly/SmDiv15min. She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK
Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
Smart Divorce Ltd
P.S. I am the co-author of “My Divorce Handbook – It’s What You Do Next That Counts”, written by divorce specialists and lawyers writing about their area of expertise to help walk you through the divorce process. You can buy it here https://yourdivorcehandbook.co.uk/buy-the-book/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tamsin Caine (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the Smart Divorce podcast.
I am back again with thefabulous Helen Stuart.
From now you're talking a bitof a different topic.
I'm gonna start with thetrigger warning at the very
start.
We are going to be talkingabout suicide today.
If you've been impacted bysuicide from people who are
(00:30):
close to you friends, family,etc and please do reach out if
you do need any help, and pleasebe aware that you might find
some of the topics that we talkabout today difficult, but we
are hopefully going to give yousome help, advice of how to deal
with with particularly childrenor teenagers, older children
(00:55):
who are struggling.
We find this a very importanttopic to cover, so I hope you'll
bear with us and I hope thatyou find this a useful episode.
I'm going to start by sayinghello to Helen and just ask her
to introduce herself briefly forthose of you who haven't
(01:17):
listened to the other couple ofepisodes that we've recorded
together.
So, hi, Helen!
Helen Stuart (01:23):
hello, thank you so much, Tamsin.
Yeah, so I'm Helen Stuart.
I am Managing Director of NowYou're Talking.
We are a business that providestherapy to children, young
people, adults, couples, withvarious different counsellors
that can support with.
That Really easy and accessibleto find and you can rest
(01:43):
assured that everybody that wework with are trusted and we've
got the right qualifications todo with the job, whether that's
working with your children,yourselves or as a couple.
Tamsin Caine (01:53):
Fantastic and it is an amazing service that you
offer.
As I said, today we're talkingabout a massive topic and we're
going to try and cover someaspects of it within the next
sort of half hour 40 minutes,and it's not a long time to talk
about something which is a huge, huge topic family, um over the
(02:30):
last uh six months because,very sadly, my son's one of my
son's best friends took his ownlife um earlier at the end of
last year, um which we're stillall dealing with.
Um, he was a young person, 21years old 22 years old and you
know it's it's an incrediblyhard thing to talk, to talk
about, to think about, but it isa topic that I felt that it was
(02:51):
important, whilst we weretalking about the children angle
of divorce, that we coveredthis topic.
So it's not just about divorce,um, it impacts, it impacts many
, many of us, but it issomething that I wanted to uh to
talk about today.
So I guess the first thing is,if you can see that your child
(03:19):
is suffering with anxiety ordepression, what are the first
things that we should do?
Helen Stuart (03:26):
Thank you, and thank you for sharing as well,
because it's a really difficulttopic and it's a really um, a
hard thing to talk about.
Um, I think as a parent,grandparent, friend, seeing the
young person's struggle isreally hard.
Um, I talked about that, thisparticular generation that are
kind of coming through at themoment.
(03:46):
You know they are contendingwith a lot.
There's a world that is quitescary.
There is technologies arisingthat kind of you know can do so
much in a good way, but also ina negative way.
There is the era of socialmedia and kind of finding all
your information on there, butalso this kind of never all your
information on there, but alsothis kind of never switching off
culture with young people aswell.
(04:08):
So you know, there was a timewhere you would go to school,
you would come home and your dayhad ended and with a lot of
young people.
Now it doesn't end because youcome home, you're on social
media, you're on tiktok orwhatever it is, you know, and it
just, it just goes on.
So I think, firstly, I thinkyou know when, especially
children, when they sort ofenter kind of those teenage
(04:29):
years, like you know, it's no um, no secret that they can be
quite challenging.
You know there's a lot of kindof uh changes going on so
scientifically around kind of um, brain development and that
sort of thing, but you knowthere are so many things that
they're contending with, whetherthat is exams, friendships,
relationships, you know all ofthose things kind of compound.
(04:50):
Um, when we're starting to kindof see young people sort of
being withdrawn, um, you know, alot of the time I've talked
about previously that can comeout in many different forms that
, whether that is anger, whetherthat is anxiety, whether that
is anxiety, whether that is, youknow, feeling down, feeling low
, and I think a foundation forthat is to have really open and
(05:11):
honest conversations and makemental health a really open
topic in the house as well,which is really really hard,
especially as a parent.
If you've done that before,you're then trying to pave a new
way of being, you know, openabout a topic and it can feel
really really scary, um, so Ithink kind of opening up and you
know, creating that environmentwill feel safe to be quite open
(05:33):
about that um, which you knowfor some children like they
really don't want to talk aboutit, and I get that, you know,
and it's just, I think don'tgive up at the first sort of
challenge that you might getback is that keep asking,
because that could be, you know,the, the million dollar
question that's needed that theyfinally open up and sort of
want to have that question.
So don't be afraid and you knowit does feel a little bit
(05:56):
vulnerable sometimes because itmight mean that you might have
to be open about yourself aswell.
You know, and I know we allwant to kind of feel like this
strong person for our children,but it's absolutely okay for
your children to be alive, forthem to see you, you know, have
emotion, you know, and that'sthat's okay.
Um, so I think that's where Iwould say that always just kind
(06:17):
of start laying the foundationsfor those conversations
Tamsin Caine (06:22):
I think that's really good advice.
And and also encouraging yourchildren to talk openly with
their friends about how they'refeeling, to check in with their
friends about how they'refeeling and try and get them to
open up.
It's, it's got to be a reallytrue thing that some of the
people who are really strugglingmentally don't necessarily walk
(06:46):
around looking sad.
You know they could.
They could be some of the mostcheerful people, happy people,
contented people, brilliantpeople that that you know in
your life.
So you know, checking in onthose people and trying to get
them to open up about anythingthat might be going on in their
world is vitally important.
(07:07):
I was told some time ago thatit's really important to front
up to, if you do think thatthere's any chance whatsoever
that your child, friend, familymember, et cetera is considering
taking their own life, that youshould use the word, that you
(07:29):
should ask if they'reconsidering suicide.
You're nodding, so I'm assumingthat I've got that bit right
and it's all right.
Asking and that's.
You know, I get that.
That's a sensible thing, butyou can't ask.
Obviously you're asking, hopingfor a no, but you've got to
(07:50):
know what to do with it if theanswer is yes.
Helen Stuart (07:54):
Yeah.
Tamsin Caine (07:56):
So okay, we think we need to ask the question.
Then what do we do if we getyes?
Helen Stuart (08:00):
I think it's really important and I think
that you're absolutely right, Ithink, using the words have you
thought about harming yourself?
Have you thought about dying?
Have you thought about takingyour own life?
You know it's a really scaryplace, you know, to ask those
questions and I think you willprobably or might be the first
(08:22):
person to ask that person thatquestion and you know with any
question that you get askedsometimes and you think, gosh,
I've never been asked thatbefore.
You know it can really stoppeople and just go.
In fact, they've asked me um.
So I think, firstly for you andit's you know, it takes a lot
of courage to ask that question,because you're absolutely right
(08:42):
that it's the answer that weare probably most terrified
about.
Um, I think when, if someoneopens up to you and tells you
that they are difficult inthemselves, that they think they
will be best placed if theywork there, I think it's really
important that we can hold thatspace for them and letting them
know you are so grateful thatthey have felt able to be able
(09:03):
to tell that to you, becausethat will feel like the biggest
secret or biggest thought thatthey have had and it will be so
overwhelming to be able toopenly and say that you know
could be, could be the thedifference between whether they
do or they don't.
So, first of all, I think,really hold that space and, you
know, allow the time to be ableto sit and give them that space
(09:26):
to kind of talk through that.
I think there are lots of peoplewith sort of suicidal ideation,
or you know people that havethought about harming themselves
.
Kind of the advice is to go toA&E, which is a really important
place to keep yourself safe.
Go to A&E.
But there are also some reallygreat sanctuaries popping up at
(09:47):
the moment.
There was a couple locally thatare offering sort of drop-ins,
kind of self spaces for peopleto go along to if they feel
unsafe.
Now, these are different to A&Ebecause, instead of waiting in
an A&E waiting room and beingwaiting to be seen, you are
given someone to talk to prettymuch immediately and there is a
(10:08):
space for them.
So, before having thoseconversations, clearing yourself
up with what are the optionshere, if this person is going to
say, yes, I feel like I want todie or I want to hurt myself,
what practical things can yougive to them to basically say,
well, this is what we're goingto do, I think.
Secondly, I think it's reallyimportant to tell someone you
(10:32):
know, when they've said this,all the reasons why they
shouldn't, and that's absolutelyvalid and I think that's really
important.
But you've got to understandthat this person has come to a
place where they feel likenothing is worth living for
anymore.
So, actually hearing them andyou know, taking that time to
acknowledge and really listen, Ithink giving that space and you
(10:52):
know, not listening as in likeyou're listening and you're
waiting to give a response oryou're trying to fix it, because
naturally sometimes peopledon't want you to sit and fix,
they want you to listen.
So actively listen to thatperson.
Are they talking about?
What have they got to say?
Um, but then also sort ofgiving some sort of plan what
are we going to do from thispoint?
(11:13):
What can we do to keep you safe?
What you know?
What things can we do right now?
And they might be really reallysmall things actually to them
or feel huge.
You know it could you know.
Do you want me to?
You know, if it is apeer-to-peer sort of situation,
ask them.
Do you want me to talk to yourparents about this?
(11:34):
Do you want me to.
You know, have a conversation,try and seek their um, you know
permission as much as possible,because I think that actually
there are times where we can'tdo that and we're going to have
to tell someone we're going tohave to do that to keep
themselves safe.
But actually they might say,yeah, I just need someone to
help me have this conversation,so don't be afraid to ask that.
(11:56):
But then also, I think it'sabout after those conversations.
You know what are you going todo after that.
How are you going to make surethat person's keeping safe?
Is it that you need to kind ofencourage them to make a phone
call to the GP?
Don't expect people to just dothat on their own.
Sometimes, when you're in theabsolute depths of despair,
making a phone call to a GP canseem like the hardest thing to
do.
Can you do that with thatperson?
(12:17):
Can you go along to thatappointment with?
You know, offer as much supportas you can.
That's good advice.
I think I think, just rewindinga little bit, you've asked the
question and somebody says yes,and I think, just rewinding a
little bit, you've asked thequestion and somebody says yes,
and I think you're absolutelyright.
Listening and holding the spacefor them is brilliant, because
(12:39):
what you must want to do is justrun away.
Then, like I don't know how todeal with this, I don't know
what.
From what you've said aboutlistening and holding the space,
we should be asking morequestions.
What else should we be asking,like, how do we, how do we move
(13:02):
that conversation forward?
From that?
Yes, I don't think I'm any useto the world and I think I
shouldn't be here anymore.
I considered harming myself.
I have, like, where do we gofrom that information?
Because that's, that's big forthe person hearing it for the
(13:24):
first time as well as it beinghuge, isn't it?
Who's who's saying yes?
so I think it's important to differentiate
between, um, somebody who isfeeling suicidal and then
someone who has got the intentand is going to carry out, carry
out that action.
(13:44):
So asking somebody do you havea plan, have you planned this
out?
Do you know what you would dowhich again feels and even
saying that is such a hardquestion to ask and you again,
the response you could get wouldbe unbelievably difficult to
hear.
Actually asking that and askingthem to say that out loud is
(14:06):
incredibly powerful.
Um, and then again sort ofletting that that person, that
person may turn around and sayno, I've just had these thoughts
, or that person might give youquite a detailed plan of what
they're going to do.
At that point, I think thatyou're in a, you're in a space
there, you've got an opportunityto try and actually do
(14:27):
something um, and I wouldencourage that you then seek, um
, you know, immediate mentalhealth support at that point as
well and try and do that withthem as much as possible.
So, whether that is, like Isaid, sort of attending sort of
one of these sanctuaries youknow, calling the samaritans,
which are absolutely thevolunteers on, the samaritans
are brilliant and you are ableto do that with, with the person
(14:50):
there and then and you can dothat together, um, and then
presenting at a and a as well asalways an option.
But yeah, really hard questionto ask, but really important
question to ask as well.
Tamsin Caine (15:00):
Yeah crikey, that's, uh, that's, that's a big
, that is a big question that'sreally hard to to deal with and
I think I I kind of come fromthis, so from my own personal
experience.
Helen Stuart (15:11):
So I, my father, died by suicide when I was 18
years old and we had absolutelyno idea he was feeling that way
at all.
He had suffered with his mentalhealth for years, um, but never
in a million years did I everthink he would, he would take in
his own life.
So it was a complete and uttershock to us.
So I think this comes with acaveat.
(15:33):
Sometimes it is so difficult toyou know, we talk about suicide
prevention all the time and Ithink there are things we can do
.
But I also think that he's hadthat conversation with somebody.
Um, you know, unfortunatelysometimes people can be so
unwell that they really cannotsee past that and you can get
(15:55):
them all the help that they canget, you know, all the support,
and that it's not a failure onyour part if you've not been
able to prevent that, becauseyou've done as much as you can.
So I think it comes with a realcaveat of that.
I think that's really importantto mention.
You know, I there was nothing wecould have done to promote
dad's death.
I don't actually think, becausewe were so in the dark about it
(16:15):
.
Um, he had depression, hestruggled with his mental health
, but was a time when no onereally spoke about it, you know.
And so at the time, no, I don'tthink there was anything more
that we could have done.
But actually today, I think Iprobably would have been far
more open to having thatconversation.
And had he verbalized that, hadhe said you know, I'm thinking
(16:36):
about dying, you know, like thatcould have been difference
between that actually happeningand not happening.
Um, so, as scary as it feels,as, um, you know, daunting and
vulnerable and all of thoseemotions that come with that, I
would say, you know, it is farbetter for your friend to break
down and cry to you than you tohave to go to their funeral,
(16:58):
because that is ultimately thereality of it
yeah, absolutelyI do think it's massively
important that that we doremember that you couldn't have
prevented it.
You know yes, there are otherthings that we know now that
(17:18):
talking can massively help, thatthere is support out there for
people, but we shouldn't.
You know, you try as family, asfriends're.
You are there for your familyand for your friends and and
there shouldn't be any layer ofguilt.
So if anybody out there haslost anybody to suicide, it's no
(17:41):
, they were going to do that.
That's, that's the decisionthat they made and and you know
there should be, there should beno guilt on it.
What we're talking about todayis is, if we feel that somebody
is in those depths, that how dowe go about dealing with it?
And a massive thank you forsharing your story, because
(18:03):
that's such a difficult story tocope with, isn't it?
And I think you know we are 15 years on from
from when that happened and Iwould say that, unfortunately,
in 15 years, I don't reallythink we've moved on too much
from there.
I think suicide is still thebiggest killer among men.
(18:23):
I can't don't quote me off interms of the ages, but why, you
know, why is this stillhappening.
You know why is this stillhappening to, you know, young
people, you know all thosedifferent things you know.
And what do we need to change,what do we need to make better?
And how do we prevent it fromeven getting to that point in
the first place?
And I think that's what we'rereally talking about here is
(18:44):
that actually kind of havingkind of really open and honest
conversations quite early on,and kind of having kind of
really open and honestconversations quite early on and
kind of, you know, allowingpeople to be able to feel safe
enough to discuss that and beopen, um, you know, I think is
such is a great start.
And you know we've got anopportunity here with kind of
again, I talk about this newgeneration coming through all of
(19:04):
the time, because I think thatthey're a generation that are
being exposed to so much, um,but we've not got it right so
far.
So how can we, how can we tryand get it right now, how can we
try and fix that and you know,create a safe space for people
to feel that they can be openand talk about those challenges
and talk about, you know, someof the darkest thoughts and the
(19:27):
darkest feelings in my house,because you know it must be
awful to hear that, to be therecipient of someone who gets
told that someone is trying towant thinking of taking their
own life, but think how thatmust feel for the person that's
having to verbalize it yeah, youcan't.
Tamsin Caine (19:45):
Can you, you can't ?
No, I think most of us can'tput ourselves in that space and
that's what that's sort of.
One of the reasons it's sodifficult is because you can't
put yourself in a space where,where that feels like the only
option, because that that nobodygoes into it, thinking there
(20:06):
are, there are other choices.
They, they go down that routebecause that feels like the only
option to them and it's yeah,just yeah.
It's.
It's heartbreaking.
You just can't put yourself inthat space at all.
So you're absolutely right interms of we've talked about
options for, kind of, when wefind somebody in a space where
(20:31):
we feel that that they'restruggling so much with their
mental health that they areconsidering hurting themselves
in some way.
What about prevention?
Let's try and put a positivespin on this for a bit.
So obviously we're a divorcepodcast and we want to think
(20:55):
from a parent's perspective andwe talked a couple of episodes
ago about, about therapy forchildren and about helping them
build, build up resilience.
Are there other options forpreventing, for helping um,
children and young people totalk out loud?
Are there?
(21:15):
Yeah, what?
Where can they?
What can they do?
Are the things that areavailable for them?
Helen Stuart (21:21):
so I think, um, first and foremost, I think role
modeling I think be a reallypositive role model when it
comes to discussing mentalhealth.
Because I think if you aresurrounded by uh, you know
positive adults in your life,whether that is mum, dad,
grandparents, aunties, uncles,that sort of thing, you know
that positively role model,mental health and how you're
(21:43):
feeling.
You know kind of the check-inconversations when you come home
, you know when they come homefrom school, you know.
I mean I ask my son how if he'shad a good day like he barely
tells me anything but you know,just like, yeah, yeah, just role
model, role modeling kind of,you know, and telling them about
your day and be like reallyhard meeting today and you know,
(22:06):
and talk about those feelings.
You know, I think it's aboutkind of you know, we all kind of
have these surface levelconversations, but really role
model that actually you're, youare comfortable to be vulnerable
and to kind of talk reallyopenly about those feelings.
So I think that's reallyimportant because what that then
does is that it filters down toyour children, who then go,
(22:27):
okay, well, this is actuallyokay to kind of talk about this
and you hope, hoping that thatthen has a bit of a ripple
effect.
They, they then talk openly totheir friends about it, you know
.
And then for me, you know, Iknow that I now, with my
children, get really open aboutmental health and we talk about
that a lot.
So definitely think we canstart from there.
I think that schools are doingmore around mental health, which
(22:52):
is brilliant, and I think thereare, you know, we've worked
with a couple of schools aroundsort of talking about mental
health and talking about theimportance of kind of knowing
when, when to seek support, um,but you know we have a brilliant
, um, you know, uh service, nhsservice in this country, which I
know people have their opinionson and everything but GPs.
(23:14):
You know there are brilliantGPs out there to go and speak to
and talk, tell them how youfeel.
Um, I think that there are.
When we recognize these signs,if we think our child is
struggling, again, kind of whatwe've previously spoke about is
there is no judgment on seekinghelp and support.
So if that is going to talk toa therapist, if that is going to
(23:37):
talk to your gp, you know thereare things like therapy is an
incredible mechanism for helpingyou talk through traumas.
You know, um, whether that be,you know if you've got some
anxieties, whether that is thatyou know you're feeling low or
you've got fears.
You know we speak to a lot ofchildren that are really
frightened about going to schooland trying to understand what
(24:00):
that reason is.
You know there are um servicesout there that are available for
you to go to, and I thinkwhat's hard is that in this
country there's an overwhelmingamount of things online and it's
like you don't know where to go, so you don't know what to go.
So you absolutely go to the NHSsimilar around the NHS but
there are other services thatcan help and support young
(24:20):
people kind of navigate throughthose challenges.
Because the earlier we can kindof do that, the more you know
we've got more of a chance ofkind of helping resolve some of
those issues.
Now.
Therapy might not make thingsgo away, but they'll give you
some coping mechanisms to beable to cope with that and then
you know you can do someprocessing, you can do some
(24:41):
reflective work.
You know there is so much stuffand it really gives people, you
know, really solid base to goon because you know we are we
talk about this a lot with mywork with domestic abuse that
we're trying to break the cycleof abuse, but there is a.
There's a work with domesticabuse that we're trying to break
the cycle of abuse, but thereis a there's a cycle of all
mental health we need to breakas well.
And if we can break that forthe next generation and say
(25:03):
actually let's start you off ina good place, you will then go
on and hopefully have healthyrelationships you will then have
.
You know all of those things youknow it can be my of what I
want the world to look like.
I do think that we can do it.
We just got to all worktogether to be able to kind of
get there.
I think
No, I think you're absolutelyright.
(25:24):
I think encouraging youngpeople to talk is absolutely the
first thing, and I think mentalhealth is so easily hidden.
You know, if you're playingwith your mental health, you can
hide it.
You know, if you've broken yourleg or you've got chicken pox,
(25:44):
you know we can see it.
It's out there, but your mentalhealth is on the inside and
it's because it can be so easilyhidden and so many people with
poor mental health are so reallyvery good at masking and hiding
it and putting on a brave face.
And you know, and I do think inthis country there's this stiff
(26:06):
upper lip.
I mean, that's quite an oldphrase.
But you know, putting on abrave face and and just getting
on with it is kind of whatyou're expected to do.
But actually sometimes yourmental health just floors you
and you need to talk and you doneed something else by way of
(26:26):
support.
Just want to mention a couple ofgroups that have come, and you
might have some that you want tomention as well.
We're in um south manchester,so some of these are local to us
, but I'm sure there are similarthings elsewhere.
So there's a running club inthat operates across greater
(26:47):
manchester called mile shy umclub.
They also, as well asencouraging exercise and being
really, really valuable forimproving mental health, they
also do have a talking shop, um,where you can go along.
It's lovely, friendly people.
Can't even tell you howfriendly the people at mileshire
(27:09):
club are, but they they offerum the opportunity to to sit and
talk and to to discuss thingsthat are on your mind, which I
think is absolutely incredible.
And then the other thing is arugby-related charity called
Loose Heads, which areattempting to put a mental
health lead in all rugby clubsacross the UK, which will just
(27:34):
be incredible, because rugbyclubs are essentially the people
who go there and who play.
There are young men, youngwomen, and loose heads give them
a sign posting.
But also, if there's beenanything that's happened, such
as, unfortunately, our um, ourlovely player who we lost last
(27:57):
year, they um were able to setup some sessions for our young
people, our players, to come andtalk about what had happened
and to to encourage them to talkto one another as well about
experiences, and so, yeah, justwanted to mention those two.
Are there any groups thatyou've come across that
(28:18):
encourage?
I know there's a men's talkingone, but can't remember what
it's called.
There's one locally to me called uh it's
mental, I think which is a men'stalking group.
Um, they, there are a couple.
So the one thing so I follow umquite closely, the uh campaign
against living miserably.
So they are brilliant, sothey're calm and they do an
(28:39):
awful lot around sort of suicideprevention and kind of their
tools and techniques in terms ofkind of how to kind of talk to
people who might be experiencingsuicidal ideation.
But there are more and moregroups sort of popping up and I
think mine are a great directoryfor these kind of groups that
are around.
Because also the network ofsupport that you have is so
important.
(28:59):
And if you are feeling lonelyyou know suffering with poor
mental health is quite a lonelyexperience anyway because you do
feel your brain tells you thatyou're on your own and you know
nobody cares and all thosethings like.
But if you can surroundyourself with you know really
positive um, you know a networkum, especially as well, for um
we've got things around youngmums as well, that you know.
(29:22):
If you've got postnataldepression, there's lots of
support groups out there.
Um, so you know, I think that Iknow that there are is more to
be done in that space, butpeople are recognizing there is
a need for this now.
So I think if you are lookingfor some sort of group and some
sort of support, um, theexercise groups are huge and so,
(29:42):
with my local gym that I go to,um is all around kind of um.
Mental health and fitness and Ithink the two are so closely
linked and I think actuallyencouragement around that.
And another point as well isthat conversations and you know
when you want to have thesechats and if you want to feel
like you can have a conversationwith somebody about their
(30:04):
mental health, going for a walkI cannot stress enough how much
you will get if you're on a walkwith somebody, because there is
something about movement andthere is scientific, there are
studies around this, aroundmovement, about kind of being on
a destination together andbeing able to talk openly and
freely.
So get yourselves outside, havea chat, because that is a
(30:25):
really, really important placeto kind of be open and to kind
of, yeah, feel like you can,you're not in the constraints or
somewhere where you can't talkopenly.
Tamsin Caine (30:34):
I would definitely encourage that constraints or
somewhere where you can't talkopenly.
Um, I would definitelyencourage that.
No, I love that and it it'sthat being side by side instead
of facing, you can't see how theother people reacting, and so
on.
There's some driving in a car,I'm sure.
Yes, trying to remember whathis name, the DJ guy I feel like
it's called Ronan, but thenthat that doesn't sound right.
(30:55):
I think Roman Kemp.
Roman Kemp, thank you.
Yeah, Roman Kemp talks about umbecause he lost it, his yeah
side um, and he talks aboutbeing in a car.
So that side by side thing andwalking is the same thing.
That side by side thing, it'sso much easier to open up.
Helen Stuart (31:14):
So so much easier.
Yeah, yeah, I would definitelysay my previous work with
working with young people isthat when I was having
difficulty kind of having anyconversations, I got them in a
car and I drove somewhere.
Oh, totally different ball game.
So definitely would encouragethat yeah, absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (31:34):
I think there are some um walking mental health
groups available as well, Ithink.
If you are, if you do want aplace to talk and you do want to
to open up, get on google, havea look what's available in your
local area, because thesegroups are popping up all over
the place that that supportactivity, that support your
(31:55):
mental health.
Um, and, yeah, let's, let'shope that we've done a little
bit in in encouraging people toto open up, to support one
another and, and hopefully, ifwe made a difference to one
person by recording this podcast, it will have been worth us
doing it.
Is there anything else you wantto add, Helen, before we finish
(32:17):
?
Helen Stuart (32:18):
well, just to say you know that if you are
struggling, if you, you know youare in a place where you are
worried about a loved one, youare worried about yourself.
Um, you know there are somebrilliant help plans out there.
I've always mentioned um,Samaritan's, Mind, um and uh,
Against Living Miserably arealways great.
You know.
(32:39):
Also, if you feel like you wantsomeone to talk to, then yeah,
please do reach out and we candrop some stuff around kind of
different advice lines andthings like that.
But please, just please, don'tbe afraid to talk, although it
will feel like the scariestthing ever to do.
You know, life is always worthliving.
Tamsin Caine (32:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a perfect note to end on.
We will include some helplinesin the show notes, so please do
check those out if you oranybody that you know needs
those, and thank you forlistening.
I hope this wasn't too painfulfor you and I hope it's given
you at least some ideas of howto help people in your life.
(33:21):
Thank you so much, helen.
Massively appreciate youjoining us and you being so open
about the smart divorce podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
(33:43):
show notes for our details orgo onto the website, www.
smartdivorce.
co.
uk.
Also, if you are listening onapple podcasts or on spotify and
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review, that
would be fantastic.
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this is
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
(34:06):
divorce and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
It's called separation, divorceand dissolution uk.
Please do go on to facebook,search up the group, and we'd be
delighted to have you join us,and the one thing I would say is
(34:27):
do please answer theirmembership questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
Hello and welcome to the Smart Divorce podcast.
I am back again with thefabulous Helen Stuart.
From now you're talking a bitof a different topic.
I'm gonna start with thetrigger warning at the very
start.
We are going to be talkingabout suicide today.
If you've been impacted bysuicide from people who are
(00:30):
close to you friends, family,etc and please do reach out if
you do need any help, and pleasebe aware that you might find
some of the topics that we talkabout today difficult, but we
are hopefully going to give yousome help, advice of how to deal
with with particularly childrenor teenagers, older children
(00:55):
who are struggling.
We find this a very importanttopic to cover, so I hope you'll
bear with us and I hope thatyou find this a useful episode.
I'm going to start by sayinghello to Helen and just ask her
to introduce herself briefly forthose of you who haven't
(01:17):
listened to the other couple ofepisodes that we've recorded
together.
So, hi, Helen!
Helen Stuart (01:23):
hello, thank you so much, Tamsin.
Yeah, so I'm Helen Stuart.
I am Managing Director of NowYou're Talking.
We are a business that providestherapy to children, young
people, adults, couples, withvarious different counsellors
that can support with.
That Really easy and accessibleto find and you can rest
(01:43):
assured that everybody that wework with are trusted and we've
got the right qualifications todo with the job, whether that's
working with your children,yourselves or as a couple.
Tamsin Caine (01:53):
Fantastic and it is an amazing service that you
offer.
As I said, today we're talkingabout a massive topic and we're
going to try and cover someaspects of it within the next
sort of half hour 40 minutes,and it's not a long time to talk
about something which is a huge, huge topic family, um over the
(02:30):
last uh six months because,very sadly, my son's one of my
son's best friends took his ownlife um earlier at the end of
last year, um which we're stillall dealing with.
Um, he was a young person, 21years old 22 years old and you
know it's it's an incrediblyhard thing to talk, to talk
about, to think about, but it isa topic that I felt that it was
(02:51):
important, whilst we weretalking about the children angle
of divorce, that we coveredthis topic.
So it's not just about divorce,um, it impacts, it impacts many
, many of us, but it issomething that I wanted to uh to
talk about today.
So I guess the first thing is,if you can see that your child
(03:19):
is suffering with anxiety ordepression, what are the first
things that we should do?
Helen Stuart (03:26):
Thank you, and thank you for sharing as well,
because it's a really difficulttopic and it's a really um, a
hard thing to talk about.
Um, I think as a parent,grandparent, friend, seeing the
young person's struggle isreally hard.
Um, I talked about that, thisparticular generation that are
kind of coming through at themoment.
(03:46):
You know they are contendingwith a lot.
There's a world that is quitescary.
There is technologies arisingthat kind of you know can do so
much in a good way, but also ina negative way.
There is the era of socialmedia and kind of finding all
your information on there, butalso this kind of never all your
information on there, but alsothis kind of never switching off
culture with young people aswell.
(04:08):
So you know, there was a timewhere you would go to school,
you would come home and your dayhad ended and with a lot of
young people.
Now it doesn't end because youcome home, you're on social
media, you're on tiktok orwhatever it is, you know, and it
just, it just goes on.
So I think, firstly, I thinkyou know when, especially
children, when they sort ofenter kind of those teenage
(04:29):
years, like you know, it's no um, no secret that they can be
quite challenging.
You know there's a lot of kindof uh changes going on so
scientifically around kind of um, brain development and that
sort of thing, but you knowthere are so many things that
they're contending with, whetherthat is exams, friendships,
relationships, you know all ofthose things kind of compound.
(04:50):
Um, when we're starting to kindof see young people sort of
being withdrawn, um, you know, alot of the time I've talked
about previously that can comeout in many different forms that
, whether that is anger, whetherthat is anxiety, whether that
is anxiety, whether that is, youknow, feeling down, feeling low
, and I think a foundation forthat is to have really open and
(05:11):
honest conversations and makemental health a really open
topic in the house as well,which is really really hard,
especially as a parent.
If you've done that before,you're then trying to pave a new
way of being, you know, openabout a topic and it can feel
really really scary, um, so Ithink kind of opening up and you
know, creating that environmentwill feel safe to be quite open
(05:33):
about that um, which you knowfor some children like they
really don't want to talk aboutit, and I get that, you know,
and it's just, I think don'tgive up at the first sort of
challenge that you might getback is that keep asking,
because that could be, you know,the, the million dollar
question that's needed that theyfinally open up and sort of
want to have that question.
So don't be afraid and you knowit does feel a little bit
(05:56):
vulnerable sometimes because itmight mean that you might have
to be open about yourself aswell.
You know, and I know we allwant to kind of feel like this
strong person for our children,but it's absolutely okay for
your children to be alive, forthem to see you, you know, have
emotion, you know, and that'sthat's okay.
Um, so I think that's where Iwould say that always just kind
(06:17):
of start laying the foundationsfor those conversations
Tamsin Caine (06:22):
I think that's really good advice.
And and also encouraging yourchildren to talk openly with
their friends about how they'refeeling, to check in with their
friends about how they'refeeling and try and get them to
open up.
It's, it's got to be a reallytrue thing that some of the
people who are really strugglingmentally don't necessarily walk
(06:46):
around looking sad.
You know they could.
They could be some of the mostcheerful people, happy people,
contented people, brilliantpeople that that you know in
your life.
So you know, checking in onthose people and trying to get
them to open up about anythingthat might be going on in their
world is vitally important.
(07:07):
I was told some time ago thatit's really important to front
up to, if you do think thatthere's any chance whatsoever
that your child, friend, familymember, et cetera is considering
taking their own life, that youshould use the word, that you
(07:29):
should ask if they'reconsidering suicide.
You're nodding, so I'm assumingthat I've got that bit right
and it's all right.
Asking and that's.
You know, I get that.
That's a sensible thing, butyou can't ask.
Obviously you're asking, hopingfor a no, but you've got to
(07:50):
know what to do with it if theanswer is yes.
Helen Stuart (07:54):
Yeah.
Tamsin Caine (07:56):
So okay, we think we need to ask the question.
Then what do we do if we getyes?
Helen Stuart (08:00):
I think it's really important and I think
that you're absolutely right, Ithink, using the words have you
thought about harming yourself?
Have you thought about dying?
Have you thought about takingyour own life?
You know it's a really scaryplace, you know, to ask those
questions and I think you willprobably or might be the first
(08:22):
person to ask that person thatquestion and you know with any
question that you get askedsometimes and you think, gosh,
I've never been asked thatbefore.
You know it can really stoppeople and just go.
In fact, they've asked me um.
So I think, firstly for you andit's you know, it takes a lot
of courage to ask that question,because you're absolutely right
(08:42):
that it's the answer that weare probably most terrified
about.
Um, I think when, if someoneopens up to you and tells you
that they are difficult inthemselves, that they think they
will be best placed if theywork there, I think it's really
important that we can hold thatspace for them and letting them
know you are so grateful thatthey have felt able to be able
(09:03):
to tell that to you, becausethat will feel like the biggest
secret or biggest thought thatthey have had and it will be so
overwhelming to be able toopenly and say that you know
could be, could be the thedifference between whether they
do or they don't.
So, first of all, I think,really hold that space and, you
know, allow the time to be ableto sit and give them that space
(09:26):
to kind of talk through that.
I think there are lots of peoplewith sort of suicidal ideation,
or you know people that havethought about harming themselves
.
Kind of the advice is to go toA&E, which is a really important
place to keep yourself safe.
Go to A&E.
But there are also some reallygreat sanctuaries popping up at
(09:47):
the moment.
There was a couple locally thatare offering sort of drop-ins,
kind of self spaces for peopleto go along to if they feel
unsafe.
Now, these are different to A&Ebecause, instead of waiting in
an A&E waiting room and beingwaiting to be seen, you are
given someone to talk to prettymuch immediately and there is a
(10:08):
space for them.
So, before having thoseconversations, clearing yourself
up with what are the optionshere, if this person is going to
say, yes, I feel like I want todie or I want to hurt myself,
what practical things can yougive to them to basically say,
well, this is what we're goingto do, I think.
Secondly, I think it's reallyimportant to tell someone you
(10:32):
know, when they've said this,all the reasons why they
shouldn't, and that's absolutelyvalid and I think that's really
important.
But you've got to understandthat this person has come to a
place where they feel likenothing is worth living for
anymore.
So, actually hearing them andyou know, taking that time to
acknowledge and really listen, Ithink giving that space and you
(10:52):
know, not listening as in likeyou're listening and you're
waiting to give a response oryou're trying to fix it, because
naturally sometimes peopledon't want you to sit and fix,
they want you to listen.
So actively listen to thatperson.
Are they talking about?
What have they got to say?
Um, but then also sort ofgiving some sort of plan what
are we going to do from thispoint?
(11:13):
What can we do to keep you safe?
What you know?
What things can we do right now?
And they might be really reallysmall things actually to them
or feel huge.
You know it could you know.
Do you want me to?
You know, if it is apeer-to-peer sort of situation,
ask them.
Do you want me to talk to yourparents about this?
(11:34):
Do you want me to.
You know, have a conversation,try and seek their um, you know
permission as much as possible,because I think that actually
there are times where we can'tdo that and we're going to have
to tell someone we're going tohave to do that to keep
themselves safe.
But actually they might say,yeah, I just need someone to
help me have this conversation,so don't be afraid to ask that.
(11:56):
But then also, I think it'sabout after those conversations.
You know what are you going todo after that.
How are you going to make surethat person's keeping safe?
Is it that you need to kind ofencourage them to make a phone
call to the GP?
Don't expect people to just dothat on their own.
Sometimes, when you're in theabsolute depths of despair,
making a phone call to a GP canseem like the hardest thing to
do.
Can you do that with thatperson?
(12:17):
Can you go along to thatappointment with?
You know, offer as much supportas you can.
That's good advice.
I think I think, just rewindinga little bit, you've asked the
question and somebody says yes,and I think, just rewinding a
little bit, you've asked thequestion and somebody says yes,
and I think you're absolutelyright.
Listening and holding the spacefor them is brilliant, because
(12:39):
what you must want to do is justrun away.
Then, like I don't know how todeal with this, I don't know
what.
From what you've said aboutlistening and holding the space,
we should be asking morequestions.
What else should we be asking,like, how do we, how do we move
(13:02):
that conversation forward?
From that?
Yes, I don't think I'm any useto the world and I think I
shouldn't be here anymore.
I considered harming myself.
I have, like, where do we gofrom that information?
Because that's, that's big forthe person hearing it for the
(13:24):
first time as well as it beinghuge, isn't it?
Who's who's saying yes?
so I think it's important to differentiate
between, um, somebody who isfeeling suicidal and then
someone who has got the intentand is going to carry out, carry
out that action.
(13:44):
So asking somebody do you havea plan, have you planned this
out?
Do you know what you would dowhich again feels and even
saying that is such a hardquestion to ask and you again,
the response you could get wouldbe unbelievably difficult to
hear.
Actually asking that and askingthem to say that out loud is
(14:06):
incredibly powerful.
Um, and then again sort ofletting that that person, that
person may turn around and sayno, I've just had these thoughts
, or that person might give youquite a detailed plan of what
they're going to do.
At that point, I think thatyou're in a, you're in a space
there, you've got an opportunityto try and actually do
(14:27):
something um, and I wouldencourage that you then seek, um
, you know, immediate mentalhealth support at that point as
well and try and do that withthem as much as possible.
So, whether that is, like Isaid, sort of attending sort of
one of these sanctuaries youknow, calling the samaritans,
which are absolutely thevolunteers on, the samaritans
are brilliant and you are ableto do that with, with the person
(14:50):
there and then and you can dothat together, um, and then
presenting at a and a as well asalways an option.
But yeah, really hard questionto ask, but really important
question to ask as well.
Tamsin Caine (15:00):
Yeah crikey, that's, uh, that's, that's a big
, that is a big question that'sreally hard to to deal with and
I think I I kind of come fromthis, so from my own personal
experience.
Helen Stuart (15:11):
So I, my father, died by suicide when I was 18
years old and we had absolutelyno idea he was feeling that way
at all.
He had suffered with his mentalhealth for years, um, but never
in a million years did I everthink he would, he would take in
his own life.
So it was a complete and uttershock to us.
So I think this comes with acaveat.
(15:33):
Sometimes it is so difficult toyou know, we talk about suicide
prevention all the time and Ithink there are things we can do
.
But I also think that he's hadthat conversation with somebody.
Um, you know, unfortunatelysometimes people can be so
unwell that they really cannotsee past that and you can get
(15:55):
them all the help that they canget, you know, all the support,
and that it's not a failure onyour part if you've not been
able to prevent that, becauseyou've done as much as you can.
So I think it comes with a realcaveat of that.
I think that's really importantto mention.
You know, I there was nothing wecould have done to promote
dad's death.
I don't actually think, becausewe were so in the dark about it
(16:15):
.
Um, he had depression, hestruggled with his mental health
, but was a time when no onereally spoke about it, you know.
And so at the time, no, I don'tthink there was anything more
that we could have done.
But actually today, I think Iprobably would have been far
more open to having thatconversation.
And had he verbalized that, hadhe said you know, I'm thinking
(16:36):
about dying, you know, like thatcould have been difference
between that actually happeningand not happening.
Um, so, as scary as it feels,as, um, you know, daunting and
vulnerable and all of thoseemotions that come with that, I
would say, you know, it is farbetter for your friend to break
down and cry to you than you tohave to go to their funeral,
(16:58):
because that is ultimately thereality of it
yeah, absolutelyI do think it's massively
important that that we doremember that you couldn't have
prevented it.
You know yes, there are otherthings that we know now that
(17:18):
talking can massively help, thatthere is support out there for
people, but we shouldn't.
You know, you try as family, asfriends're.
You are there for your familyand for your friends and and
there shouldn't be any layer ofguilt.
So if anybody out there haslost anybody to suicide, it's no
(17:41):
, they were going to do that.
That's, that's the decisionthat they made and and you know
there should be, there should beno guilt on it.
What we're talking about todayis is, if we feel that somebody
is in those depths, that how dowe go about dealing with it?
And a massive thank you forsharing your story, because
(18:03):
that's such a difficult story tocope with, isn't it?
And I think you know we are 15 years on from
from when that happened and Iwould say that, unfortunately,
in 15 years, I don't reallythink we've moved on too much
from there.
I think suicide is still thebiggest killer among men.
(18:23):
I can't don't quote me off interms of the ages, but why, you
know, why is this stillhappening.
You know why is this stillhappening to, you know, young
people, you know all thosedifferent things you know.
And what do we need to change,what do we need to make better?
And how do we prevent it fromeven getting to that point in
the first place?
And I think that's what we'rereally talking about here is
(18:44):
that actually kind of havingkind of really open and honest
conversations quite early on,and kind of having kind of
really open and honestconversations quite early on and
kind of, you know, allowingpeople to be able to feel safe
enough to discuss that and beopen, um, you know, I think is
such is a great start.
And you know we've got anopportunity here with kind of
again, I talk about this newgeneration coming through all of
(19:04):
the time, because I think thatthey're a generation that are
being exposed to so much, um,but we've not got it right so
far.
So how can we, how can we tryand get it right now, how can we
try and fix that and you know,create a safe space for people
to feel that they can be openand talk about those challenges
and talk about, you know, someof the darkest thoughts and the
(19:27):
darkest feelings in my house,because you know it must be
awful to hear that, to be therecipient of someone who gets
told that someone is trying towant thinking of taking their
own life, but think how thatmust feel for the person that's
having to verbalize it yeah, youcan't.
Tamsin Caine (19:45):
Can you, you can't ?
No, I think most of us can'tput ourselves in that space and
that's what that's sort of.
One of the reasons it's sodifficult is because you can't
put yourself in a space where,where that feels like the only
option, because that that nobodygoes into it, thinking there
(20:06):
are, there are other choices.
They, they go down that routebecause that feels like the only
option to them and it's yeah,just yeah.
It's.
It's heartbreaking.
You just can't put yourself inthat space at all.
So you're absolutely right interms of we've talked about
options for, kind of, when wefind somebody in a space where
(20:31):
we feel that that they'restruggling so much with their
mental health that they areconsidering hurting themselves
in some way.
What about prevention?
Let's try and put a positivespin on this for a bit.
So obviously we're a divorcepodcast and we want to think
(20:55):
from a parent's perspective andwe talked a couple of episodes
ago about, about therapy forchildren and about helping them
build, build up resilience.
Are there other options forpreventing, for helping um,
children and young people totalk out loud?
Are there?
(21:15):
Yeah, what?
Where can they?
What can they do?
Are the things that areavailable for them?
Helen Stuart (21:21):
so I think, um, first and foremost, I think role
modeling I think be a reallypositive role model when it
comes to discussing mentalhealth.
Because I think if you aresurrounded by uh, you know
positive adults in your life,whether that is mum, dad,
grandparents, aunties, uncles,that sort of thing, you know
that positively role model,mental health and how you're
(21:43):
feeling.
You know kind of the check-inconversations when you come home
, you know when they come homefrom school, you know.
I mean I ask my son how if he'shad a good day like he barely
tells me anything but you know,just like, yeah, yeah, just role
model, role modeling kind of,you know, and telling them about
your day and be like reallyhard meeting today and you know,
(22:06):
and talk about those feelings.
You know, I think it's aboutkind of you know, we all kind of
have these surface levelconversations, but really role
model that actually you're, youare comfortable to be vulnerable
and to kind of talk reallyopenly about those feelings.
So I think that's reallyimportant because what that then
does is that it filters down toyour children, who then go,
(22:27):
okay, well, this is actuallyokay to kind of talk about this
and you hope, hoping that thatthen has a bit of a ripple
effect.
They, they then talk openly totheir friends about it, you know
.
And then for me, you know, Iknow that I now, with my
children, get really open aboutmental health and we talk about
that a lot.
So definitely think we canstart from there.
I think that schools are doingmore around mental health, which
(22:52):
is brilliant, and I think thereare, you know, we've worked
with a couple of schools aroundsort of talking about mental
health and talking about theimportance of kind of knowing
when, when to seek support, um,but you know we have a brilliant
, um, you know, uh service, nhsservice in this country, which I
know people have their opinionson and everything but GPs.
(23:14):
You know there are brilliantGPs out there to go and speak to
and talk, tell them how youfeel.
Um, I think that there are.
When we recognize these signs,if we think our child is
struggling, again, kind of whatwe've previously spoke about is
there is no judgment on seekinghelp and support.
So if that is going to talk toa therapist, if that is going to
(23:37):
talk to your gp, you know thereare things like therapy is an
incredible mechanism for helpingyou talk through traumas.
You know, um, whether that be,you know if you've got some
anxieties, whether that is thatyou know you're feeling low or
you've got fears.
You know we speak to a lot ofchildren that are really
frightened about going to schooland trying to understand what
(24:00):
that reason is.
You know there are um servicesout there that are available for
you to go to, and I thinkwhat's hard is that in this
country there's an overwhelmingamount of things online and it's
like you don't know where to go, so you don't know what to go.
So you absolutely go to the NHSsimilar around the NHS but
there are other services thatcan help and support young
(24:20):
people kind of navigate throughthose challenges.
Because the earlier we can kindof do that, the more you know
we've got more of a chance ofkind of helping resolve some of
those issues.
Now.
Therapy might not make thingsgo away, but they'll give you
some coping mechanisms to beable to cope with that and then
you know you can do someprocessing, you can do some
(24:41):
reflective work.
You know there is so much stuffand it really gives people, you
know, really solid base to goon because you know we are we
talk about this a lot with mywork with domestic abuse that
we're trying to break the cycleof abuse, but there is a.
There's a work with domesticabuse that we're trying to break
the cycle of abuse, but thereis a there's a cycle of all
mental health we need to breakas well.
And if we can break that forthe next generation and say
(25:03):
actually let's start you off ina good place, you will then go
on and hopefully have healthyrelationships you will then have
.
You know all of those things youknow it can be my of what I
want the world to look like.
I do think that we can do it.
We just got to all worktogether to be able to kind of
get there.
I think
No, I think you're absolutelyright.
(25:24):
I think encouraging youngpeople to talk is absolutely the
first thing, and I think mentalhealth is so easily hidden.
You know, if you're playingwith your mental health, you can
hide it.
You know, if you've broken yourleg or you've got chicken pox,
(25:44):
you know we can see it.
It's out there, but your mentalhealth is on the inside and
it's because it can be so easilyhidden and so many people with
poor mental health are so reallyvery good at masking and hiding
it and putting on a brave face.
And you know, and I do think inthis country there's this stiff
(26:06):
upper lip.
I mean, that's quite an oldphrase.
But you know, putting on abrave face and and just getting
on with it is kind of whatyou're expected to do.
But actually sometimes yourmental health just floors you
and you need to talk and you doneed something else by way of
(26:26):
support.
Just want to mention a couple ofgroups that have come, and you
might have some that you want tomention as well.
We're in um south manchester,so some of these are local to us
, but I'm sure there are similarthings elsewhere.
So there's a running club inthat operates across greater
(26:47):
manchester called mile shy umclub.
They also, as well asencouraging exercise and being
really, really valuable forimproving mental health, they
also do have a talking shop, um,where you can go along.
It's lovely, friendly people.
Can't even tell you howfriendly the people at mileshire
(27:09):
club are, but they they offerum the opportunity to to sit and
talk and to to discuss thingsthat are on your mind, which I
think is absolutely incredible.
And then the other thing is arugby-related charity called
Loose Heads, which areattempting to put a mental
health lead in all rugby clubsacross the UK, which will just
(27:34):
be incredible, because rugbyclubs are essentially the people
who go there and who play.
There are young men, youngwomen, and loose heads give them
a sign posting.
But also, if there's beenanything that's happened, such
as, unfortunately, our um, ourlovely player who we lost last
(27:57):
year, they um were able to setup some sessions for our young
people, our players, to come andtalk about what had happened
and to to encourage them to talkto one another as well about
experiences, and so, yeah, justwanted to mention those two.
Are there any groups thatyou've come across that
(28:18):
encourage?
I know there's a men's talkingone, but can't remember what
it's called.
There's one locally to me called uh it's
mental, I think which is a men'stalking group.
Um, they, there are a couple.
So the one thing so I follow umquite closely, the uh campaign
against living miserably.
So they are brilliant, sothey're calm and they do an
(28:39):
awful lot around sort of suicideprevention and kind of their
tools and techniques in terms ofkind of how to kind of talk to
people who might be experiencingsuicidal ideation.
But there are more and moregroups sort of popping up and I
think mine are a great directoryfor these kind of groups that
are around.
Because also the network ofsupport that you have is so
important.
(28:59):
And if you are feeling lonelyyou know suffering with poor
mental health is quite a lonelyexperience anyway because you do
feel your brain tells you thatyou're on your own and you know
nobody cares and all thosethings like.
But if you can surroundyourself with you know really
positive um, you know a networkum, especially as well, for um
we've got things around youngmums as well, that you know.
(29:22):
If you've got postnataldepression, there's lots of
support groups out there.
Um, so you know, I think that Iknow that there are is more to
be done in that space, butpeople are recognizing there is
a need for this now.
So I think if you are lookingfor some sort of group and some
sort of support, um, theexercise groups are huge and so,
(29:42):
with my local gym that I go to,um is all around kind of um.
Mental health and fitness and Ithink the two are so closely
linked and I think actuallyencouragement around that.
And another point as well isthat conversations and you know
when you want to have thesechats and if you want to feel
like you can have a conversationwith somebody about their
(30:04):
mental health, going for a walkI cannot stress enough how much
you will get if you're on a walkwith somebody, because there is
something about movement andthere is scientific, there are
studies around this, aroundmovement, about kind of being on
a destination together andbeing able to talk openly and
freely.
So get yourselves outside, havea chat, because that is a
(30:25):
really, really important placeto kind of be open and to kind
of, yeah, feel like you can,you're not in the constraints or
somewhere where you can't talkopenly.
Tamsin Caine (30:34):
I would definitely encourage that constraints or
somewhere where you can't talkopenly.
Um, I would definitelyencourage that.
No, I love that and it it'sthat being side by side instead
of facing, you can't see how theother people reacting, and so
on.
There's some driving in a car,I'm sure.
Yes, trying to remember whathis name, the DJ guy I feel like
it's called Ronan, but thenthat that doesn't sound right.
(30:55):
I think Roman Kemp.
Roman Kemp, thank you.
Yeah, Roman Kemp talks about umbecause he lost it, his yeah
side um, and he talks aboutbeing in a car.
So that side by side thing andwalking is the same thing.
That side by side thing, it'sso much easier to open up.
Helen Stuart (31:14):
So so much easier.
Yeah, yeah, I would definitelysay my previous work with
working with young people isthat when I was having
difficulty kind of having anyconversations, I got them in a
car and I drove somewhere.
Oh, totally different ball game.
So definitely would encouragethat yeah, absolutely.
Tamsin Caine (31:34):
I think there are some um walking mental health
groups available as well, Ithink.
If you are, if you do want aplace to talk and you do want to
to open up, get on google, havea look what's available in your
local area, because thesegroups are popping up all over
the place that that supportactivity, that support your
(31:55):
mental health.
Um, and, yeah, let's, let'shope that we've done a little
bit in in encouraging people toto open up, to support one
another and, and hopefully, ifwe made a difference to one
person by recording this podcast, it will have been worth us
doing it.
Is there anything else you wantto add, Helen, before we finish
(32:17):
?
Helen Stuart (32:18):
well, just to say you know that if you are
struggling, if you, you know youare in a place where you are
worried about a loved one, youare worried about yourself.
Um, you know there are somebrilliant help plans out there.
I've always mentioned um,Samaritan's, Mind, um and uh,
Against Living Miserably arealways great.
You know.
(32:39):
Also, if you feel like you wantsomeone to talk to, then yeah,
please do reach out and we candrop some stuff around kind of
different advice lines andthings like that.
But please, just please, don'tbe afraid to talk, although it
will feel like the scariestthing ever to do.
You know, life is always worthliving.
Tamsin Caine (32:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a perfect note to end on.
We will include some helplinesin the show notes, so please do
check those out if you oranybody that you know needs
those, and thank you forlistening.
I hope this wasn't too painfulfor you and I hope it's given
you at least some ideas of howto help people in your life.
(33:21):
Thank you so much, helen.
Massively appreciate youjoining us and you being so open
about the smart divorce podcast.
If you would like to get intouch, please have a look in the
(33:43):
show notes for our details orgo onto the website, www.
smartdivorce.
co.
uk.
Also, if you are listening onapple podcasts or on spotify and
you wouldn't mind leaving us alovely five-star review, that
would be fantastic.
I know that lots of ourlisteners are finding this is
incredibly helpful in theirjourney through separation,
(34:06):
divorce and dissolving a civilpartnership.
Also, if you would like somefurther support, we do have a
Facebook group now.
It's called separation, divorceand dissolution uk.
Please do go on to facebook,search up the group, and we'd be
delighted to have you join us,and the one thing I would say is
(34:27):
do please answer theirmembership questions.
Okay, have a great day and takecare.
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