April 18, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of the Sober Chapters Podcast, host Didi Jordan sits down with her very own book coach, Andrew Biernat from Storybuilders — the powerhouse guiding her through writing The Sober Chapters book.
Andrew shares his powerful journey from anxious “frat boy” to nearly a decade sober, now thriving as a book coach who helps others share their stories with the world. What began as a three-month break from alcohol became a complete life transformation rooted in clarity, connection, and purpose.
Together, Didi and Andrew explore the emotional rollercoaster of sobriety, the importance of values-based living, and the healing power of community and creativity.
What we cover in this episode:
- How alcohol masked Andrew’s anxiety — and made it worse
- Losing his job and identity during a dark spiral of daily drinking
- The pivotal moment that inspired his break from alcohol
- Why he resisted quitting: “Beer is happiness… how could I do without that?”
- What happened during his three-month experiment that changed his life
- Feeling awkward at social events while sober — and finding empowerment
- Creating distance from drinking friends to build authentic community
- Meeting his wife post-sobriety and dating with integrity
- Why he says: “Don’t make major life decisions until you know who you are”
- How sobriety opened the door to becoming a book coach and helping others tell their truth
Whether you're just starting out on your sober journey, navigating dating without alcohol, or dreaming of sharing your story — this episode is packed with heart, honesty, and hope.
Learn more about Andrew’s work at www.linkedin.com/in/andrewjbiernat and follow along on Instagram @sober_chapters for updates on Didi’s upcoming book.
Thank you for being here and for being a part of The Sober Chapters Community.
LINKS/RESOURCES
Follow Didi @ sober_chapters on Instagram
Website for more information on Didi and her services/coaching programs available at www.soberchapters.com
FREE GUIDE: 69 Tips, Tricks & Resources to assist you during your own sober chapter available via the link on sober_chapters and via the sober chapters website.
If you enjoyed listening please rate, review and subscribe to enable the messages to be spread as far and wide as possible.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Sober Chapters podcast.
I am your host, dee Dee Jordan,and I'm so excited to be
sharing with you all of theincredible ways that removing
alcohol for a chapter willreinvent you forever.
You see, removing alcohol isabout so much more than removing
alcohol.
It's about immense personal andspiritual growth.
(00:22):
It's about discovering who youtruly are and about stepping out
of your patterns and into yourpurpose and your power.
Wherever you are on youralcohol-free or sober curious
journey, this podcast is for you, so grab yourself your favorite
cuppa and come join me in asafe space to listen, to share
(00:46):
and to feel I'm so grateful thatyou're here.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Sober Chapters podcast, and
(01:07):
today I'm joined by AndrewBionet, who is officially my
story guide at Story Builders.
He's essentially my book coach,helping me at the moment with
the Sober Chapters book, andwe've just been getting on like
a house on fire.
I'm always chatting to himabout all my stories, all the
drunken stories, and he'sactually sober as well, and I
(01:29):
just thought it was suchalignment and I knew I wanted to
get him on the podcast so wecould actually hear a bit more
about him as well.
He doesn't just have to hearabout me.
Hey, andrew, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Fantastic Deedee Really excited to be here and,
like you said, it's been reallycool.
There's a lot of people I'veworked on their books with them
and there's some alignment orless alignment, and for us it's
been really cool because, like,oh man, if I got to pick a book
I could help with, this would betop of the list for me.
So this is really cool that wedo have so much alignment on
(02:01):
this topic.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Oh, absolutely.
You've made it so special forme, like it's.
You know, I always say there'slike never any coincidences, but
from the minute we startedtalking back in September, I was
just like, wow, like this is,this is amazing, and you've been
able to really pull out so muchof my story and my journey and
it's, it's been, it's beenawesome.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You bet yeah, it's been awesome, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I guess I just wanted to hear.
I know we've touched on some ofyour kind of background when it
came to going alcohol free, butit'd be really good to hear
kind of how all that evolved foryou, maybe from the beginning,
I guess.
If that works, Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So I guess I'll start back to some of my early
experiences with alcohol.
So for me I was kind of late tothe game, apparently, compared
to a lot of people.
I started at like 19, 20-ishstarted drinking and all
completely social-based.
It was with other people andcool, let's have a couple beers,
(02:59):
let's hang out, we're at aparty, whatever.
And for the first few years itwas, it was very simple.
It wasn't, wasn't anythingmajor, but eventually I
transitioned through a coupledifferent colleges and I kind of
ended up at the university Iended up graduating from and I
kind of made alcohol kind of apart of my identity.
(03:20):
I kind of started likeidentifying as like a party boy.
I kind of started likeidentifying as like a party boy
and and really kind of kind ofmade like that kind of frat boy
persona.
I tried to fit inside that,even though I didn't.
It wasn't a good fit for it.
I I consider myself in a lot ofways kind of more intellectual.
I like having interestingdiscussions with people talking
(03:42):
about fun stuff and but I justkind of would act like an idiot
when when I'd be drinking and solike it was kind of like Dr
Jekyll and Mr Hyde, uh kind ofvibe to it and I didn't know
this at the time, but I reallystruggle a lot with anxiety and
and this was something that kindof helped smooth out some of my
social anxiety, um, and inparticular, uh, you know, in
(04:07):
dealing with members of theopposite gender, right, and
being able to like trying to bea little bit more cool or a
little bit less nervous or weird, which was so funny because I
usually became more weird ormore awkward or more everything
because of alcohol, and so itwas just this really bizarre
coping mechanism that reallydidn't help and didn't work for
me.
But I leaned into that for anumber of years and I graduated
(04:30):
college and you know, I kind ofstayed in that kind of college
lifestyle even when I had myfirst job, my first full-time
career, and it I mean it wouldreally put me into a dark place.
You know, I was staying upsuper, super late on weekends,
till three, four in the morningand then trying to get back in
line for work, get ready for aweek, up at 7 AM the next day,
(04:52):
to get into the groove again.
And it was like we were justtalking about jet lag, right.
It's like I felt jet laggedevery single week.
Just getting back into my workweek and I found that I was just
kind of circling the circlingthe drain, going and going down
into a kind of a dark place.
And so I had my first wake upcall when I was put on a
performance improvement plan atwork.
(05:13):
So, for those who don't know,sometimes called a pip and
usually it's just the prelude toyou getting fired.
Is usually how it works.
Sometimes it's done in a niceway where it's like trying to
make you better so you can staywith the company.
But, like you know, I was.
I, my performance was not whereit needed to be and I really
wasn't motivated to improve it,and so it was kind of my
(05:34):
beginning of the end.
And then I was, I was exitedout of the company after that.
So here I am, you know, now,full blown no job, no
aspirations, no anything.
And I would say that wasprobably the darkest spot in my
life personally.
Was was in there, and then Istarted drinking alone more
often in that period of time andyou know, I'd go online and I'd
(05:56):
, you know, apply for things anddo other stuff and I'd, you
know, collect my unemploymentchecks and then like, just like,
drink the rest of the day, likethat was.
That was like my pattern, youknow collect my unemployment
checks and then like, just like,drink the rest of the day, like
that was.
That was like my pattern, youknow.
And that went on for many, manymonths and fortunately my
brother kind of reached out andhe's kind of he recognized that
I was struggling, not doing well, and he said hey, have you ever
(06:20):
thought about becoming apersonal trainer?
And I said Nope, never, neverconsidered the idea, and he said
well, you've got thepersonality for it.
You can be fantastic at it.
All you'd have to learn is moreof the technical background of
it.
And really it's just a hightouch, high, high people kind of
job.
I think you'd be great at it.
And so I ended up kind of comingout to check out some of his
(06:42):
stuff while I was interviewingfor other jobs at the time.
I ended up kind of coming outto check out some of his stuff
while I was interviewing forother jobs at the time and I
kind of came down between thisone job and the personal
training thing and the one jobwas going to be like this six
figure medical device sales kindof job and I was like, ok,
that's got a lot of potential toit.
And then the other one on thepersonal training side, is cool.
Until you get certified as atrainer, you're like a minimum
(07:02):
wage helper, basically, untilyou can make that happen, and I
can only get you so many hoursdoing that.
And so it was like, okay, youknow like two very, very
disparate amounts of money andkind of career paths.
And so I went into one of thefinal interviews for the sales
job and I absolutely bombed theinterview.
(07:22):
It was just, it was absolutelyhorrible and in retrospect I
should have been more preparedfor it.
It was a sales job and and thelady was just really just
downplaying all my experienceand just using a lot of just
basic sales tactics.
But up until then I had had alot of great kind of cupcake
interviews and just kind of wentin like, oh, I'm doing awesome,
and I wasn't prepared for anytype of critical feedback.
(07:45):
And so, like I just was superflustered the whole call.
And I got done with the calland I'm like, even if they offer
me the job, I'm not going totake it.
This sucks.
And so I didn't end up movingon.
It came down to between me andanother candidate.
The other candidate got the joband so then the next day I
started working with my brotherand so I transitioned out of
(08:16):
where I was living, eventuallymoved back to my hometown where
my brother was living andworking, got certified, kind of
climbed back up the incomeladder back to where I was
previously and then'll putleadership quotes uh coach in
quotes.
Uh, he was also a counselor aswell, so he was kind of a
leadership coach and a counselor.
And so I went under him, youknow to, to get some leadership
coaching.
That kind of helped me with mythe training side of things.
(08:37):
And after I filled out kind ofthe intake survey, he's like hey
, are you open to doing somelike counseling as well?
And I was like, sure, man,whatever, whatever you think I
need.
And so we ended up workingtogether for a number of years
and it was a really difficultprocess, starting to dig in to
myself and my challenges.
And so he recommended a littlebit early on that I take a break
(09:00):
from alcohol, that I just kindof step back from it and and get
some space.
And you know, at that point itwas more just occasional binge
drinking, and you know, for meit was maybe twice a month ish,
um, but it was drinking, youknow, 10 plus beverages in an
evening, uh, right, and so so itwas.
It was a high quantity in thatperiod of time and so so the
(09:22):
recommendation was you shouldget some space from it.
Like you need to kind of dothat in order to work on some of
your recovery and just figuringyourself out.
And I resisted it, I resistedit so hard, I pushed back.
I'm like no beer is happiness.
Like this stuff is awesome,like how could I do without that
?
Right, like sitting in the sundrinking a beer, hopping and
hopping in the lake, likethere's nothing better, Right,
(09:52):
you know, I felt like my lifewas a Budweiser commercial, and
so for a number of months Ididn't lean into that and
eventually I had the worsthangover of my life, which had
come after like a three daybender over, like a holiday
weekend with my friends, and Ihad embarrassed myself around my
friends that whole weekend.
Like I just acted like acomplete idiot.
Um, and so I kind of get get tothat that Monday following that
weekend and like I already feelhorrible, like it's, it'll be
(10:13):
easy the first two weeks to notdrink.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I have no interest at all Like you know what.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I'm, I'm going to commit to a short period of time
.
I'm going to commit to threemonths of no drinking.
The first two weeks to a monthis already basically written off
because this part's going to beeasy.
And so I started my journeythere.
I started with kind of thatsmall commitment.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, I love that.
I'm just like I knew bits of itbut I hadn't heard all of it
and I'm just like, obviously Ican relate to so much of it.
Definitely, even you know theearly like the anxiety bit at
the beginning because like Ididn't realize like how much I
suffered with that or the socialanxiety or any of it.
And I realize now that, likeyou know, I was quite, I was
(10:55):
actually quite confident as alittle girl.
And then I think around the agethat everything changes, like
hormones and, I think, somebullying and like bits and
pieces, and then I got involvedwith alcohol really young and it
was kind of like that obviouslyjust made me feel so good in
that moment that then I latchedon to that and then that became
this like false comfort blanketand then all these like
deep-rooted insecurities werethen just masked throughout all
(11:19):
my teens and 20s and it's onlybeen like, yeah, since taking it
away and really working andshining a light on all of that
stuff, that it's really helpedto heal it.
And and then, of course, yeah,like the the whole doing doing
that work, you know, withoutwithout the booze, like like
your counselor suggested, likeit's it's just a no brainer
right Like you can't.
You can't get to the bottom ofthings when you're still, even
(11:43):
if it is just the odd big night.
That big night sets you back somuch and that was my life for
years and years and we get allthese like little well, I guess
not even little like with whathappened with you leaving your
job, but all these kind ofthings that happen along the way
to show you that alcohol justisn't serving you anymore.
But we don't, we don't listen,do we?
(12:03):
For a?
We're all on our own uniquejourney with it, I guess, and
this and when the time's right,yeah, yeah, so thank you.
And how did you feel then, when, when that happened, when you
took that three months break?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah.
So the three month break wasreally interesting because I had
really gotten into a rhythmwith the uh counselor I was
working with and like it was areally transformative three
months, like we really got insome deep stuff.
We did a lot of deep worktogether.
I learned a lot about myself.
I was going to some 12 stepgroups at the time and just kind
(12:34):
of hearing other people beingvulnerable and sharing their
stories kind of helped me toopen up a little bit more,
helped me to share more of mystory and in a sense, kind of
let some of that darkness thathad been kind of just hiding
inside and just kind of bring itinto the light, just like say
it, you know, just put it outthere.
And once I started being ableto do that, once I was willing
to kind of open up about some ofthose kind of dark, shameful
(12:57):
like oh man, I can't believe.
You know, I don't want anybodyto judge me or anybody to think
about this right.
As soon as I was able to letsomeone that go and speak that
out, it was like this burden wasabsolutely lifted off of me.
And by the time I got to mythree months of kind of
reevaluation time.
You know, I got.
I got to that spot and I'm likeman, I am the happiest I've
(13:18):
ever been.
I am, you know, in the bestshape I've ever been.
I am feeling really, reallygood, like alcohol has nothing
to offer me, like there, thereis no way that that can enhance
my life, because my life isamazing right now.
And so from there I was like,okay, I'm just, I'm going to
commit, because adding alcoholback in will not improve
(13:40):
anything, it will only makethings worse.
And I love where I'm at.
And so it was really a anadjustment by.
You know, in a sense startedcold Turkey but then kind of
turned into like I don't everwant to go back.
You know, I don't, I don'treally like reminisce about it,
I don't like I don't miss it, Idon't wish I could, because I
(14:00):
don't, I don't want it, I haveno interest in it anymore.
And it's so odd to think aboutthat, because for so long I was
just so attached to it and Icouldn't imagine not having it
come with me, not being able tolean on that in a social event,
not being able to pack thosebeers when we're going on a
camping trip.
Right, it was all just bakedinto my life, and then, once I
(14:24):
created that separation, I never, I never, had an interest to
bring it back, and I'm, you know, nine years sober at this point
, and you know, other than theodd, you know, dream of a party
from back in the day, you know,like I don't really have any,
any, any interest in it, right,and so it's been a really,
really cool journey to get here,though.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, amazing, amazing, yeah, I know I just
feel that as well.
Like it just gets better andbetter and better, like it's
just it is magic and I thinkit's such a gift.
I think it's you know, it's agift that kind of it does end up
presenting those problems,because then you do get the
chance to reevaluate and takethat break, whatever that looks
(15:04):
like, and I think you know, togive yourself the gift of
sobriety long term is justgorgeous, like Pete and I were
actually talking about itbecause he's sober as well.
So for everyone listening, I'mup in the Yukon at the moment,
at Pete's place, which is justmagical.
I'm in the middle of a forest,which is just wild, and he's
sober and we were talking like,yeah, like whether we would ever
(15:28):
like drink again and it's kindof like a non-negotiable for our
relationship, our life.
Like we're just like, why wouldwe even bother?
Like to be able to just havesuch a like fulfilling, amazing
foundation without ever bringingthat into.
It is just so special and Ijust there's just no, there's no
place for it.
It would only take away fromlife now, like it would add
(15:50):
absolutely nothing.
So, yeah, it's, yeah, it soundslike you feel exactly the same.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
How did you get into the bookcoaching then?
I'd love to hear about that.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah yeah.
So, man, that's a that's awinding road as well.
So I was a personal trainer fora number of years, worked with
my brother, so that was abouteight years.
And then, like many people,covid came around.
I lived in New York State,which was kind of, like you know
, new York City was somewhatlike the epicenter of a lot of
casualties, a lot of stuff goingon.
So New York, as a state withinthe United States, was a lot
(16:24):
more intense and strict as faras restrictions and so it was
like really intense lockdownsand basically the fitness
industry was completely shutdown.
There was almost no in-personinteractions, and this goes on
for a couple months and theneven after that few months, it's
super restricted.
Fitness industry had asignificant number more
restrictions than otherindustries, and so that it made
(16:47):
the job just worse.
It was less fun, it was lessexciting, and I was already
getting to a spot where I feltlike I needed to grow more, I
needed to do more, I needed tocreate more, and that, combined
with the job you know, kind ofjust feeling less fulfilling,
just kind of made it clear forme that, like you know what, I
think it's my time to step backand look for what it is that I'm
(17:08):
going to do next.
So, and part of that likesearching process, of like
wanting to do more the coupleyears previous I had published
two books, so I had gone throughand learned how to do it,
figured out you know what myclients wanted, how I could help
them, serve them with a book,and so I learned a ton about the
book publishing process just inthat role, in that job.
(17:29):
And so from there I pivoted andI moved into a chamber of
commerce role for a little bitand then eventually shifted into
the publishing industryno-transcript and doing an
amazing job.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I love it.
I love working with you,because at what point then did
you like?
How do you think that beingsober helped you to get onto
this path?
I guess as well.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, so, so, yeah, it was probably so, looking back
at the day, it was about 2015.
I think when I, when I startedmy sobriety journey and so I was
about a year, I think, maybetwo-ish years, into being a
personal trainer, so it was kindof this like, in a lot of ways,
(18:16):
just being around my brotherand kind of being in that
environment and just kind ofbeing around these other health
oriented people was extremelyhelpful, because I just, in a
sense, I kind of transplantedmyself into a new community,
because I used to live in adifferent city, about you know,
an hour and a half away, and Ihad, like you know, my drinking
network out there, right, and itwas like, oh man, you know, if
it's eight o'clock at night, Iknow who to call, we'll go get
(18:37):
some beers, you know, like we,you know there's, there's always
that person that was available.
And so when I shifted, like mywhole social structure changed
and the whole people that wereinfluencing me changed as well,
and I was spending a significantamount of time with people that
were 10, 20, 30, 40 years olderthan me and being around people
(18:57):
that are a little bit older, alittle bit wiser.
Uh, and then the price pointthat we were at as far as the
fitness services we provided, um, it brought in a certain type
of person we were, we were ahigher price point, and so it
brought in these people thathave found a level of success
and have, uh, seen a level of um, you know, growth and change in
their lives, just to get towhere they're at.
(19:18):
And so I was able to learn justso much from, from those people,
um, and another thing that Ifound was as, as my sobriety
journey progressed, I I learnedmore and more about my
anxiousness, my, my anxiety, andhow I, how I handle that, how I
deal with that, what I, what Ican do with that, and and that's
(19:40):
just been a gift of a journeyin a lot of ways, because when I
really think about it, like somuch of it stems so far back in
into childhood right, you cantake that all the way back to to
, you know, when you're superimpressionable and then you have
no defenses, uh, against someof these challenges, and so so
for me to now be able to, tocope with my anxiety in healthy
(20:03):
ways, to be able to, um, do workthat matters to me and that is
going to make a bigger impact inthe world.
It's, you know, it's like thiskind of virtuous cycle, right.
Everything kind of spinstogether because of some initial
commitments and some initialdecisions, and then I make the
next commitment and make some ofthose next decisions and it
(20:24):
just kind of brings me to thenext piece of my journey.
And in the past, really three,three years, four years, I'd say
I felt more like an adventurerthan anything else, like I've
just I don't really know wherethe next year is going to bring
me, or the next three years aregoing to bring me.
Uh, you know, I may be in doingwildly different things and and
that's fun and that's reallyexciting.
And anxious me, the, theanxious me that's out of control
(20:47):
with anxiety, uh, I would hatethat.
Right, I would want a littlebit more of that security, a
little bit more knowing what'sgoing to happen.
Um, but I've gotten to a spotwhere the unknown is more
exciting than something to beafraid of.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, there's so many things that I was like yep, yep
, yeah, like well, yes, trusting, surrendering all of that.
I mean faith is a huge piece, asyou know, for me and I believe,
for you too, and I think that's, you know, a big part of my
message that I always talk aboutis how I really believe we're
actually guided to removealcohol for a higher reason,
whatever that looks like.
(21:20):
And generally, yeah, likeservice work, and I guess you
get to bring like so manypowerful stories and messages to
the world with the work thatyou do as well, right, like by
helping people to bring that outof them, because you've, you've
really helped me to, you know,to to do that and to keep going
forwards with it, because it'sbeen times where it's like it's
pretty confronting as wellbringing all of this out to the
(21:41):
world about my own story.
So that's been a whole journeyin itself.
But I think as well, like withwhat you said, like the
importance of that community andbeing around people that are on
a similar path or that are likeinto that growth world as well,
is so important and you kind ofyou do end up just replacing,
like boozing or alcohol withsomething which is so much more
(22:03):
purposeful and I feel like youkind of have to right.
You can't just remove the boozeand do the try and live the
same life.
That just doesn't work, becausethen you just end up with that
lack mentality, right, and likeyou're missing out when you're
actually not.
But when you see that otherside and it just, yeah, it just
grows and grows, it's, it'sgorgeous and I think as well.
The other thing I wanted totouch on with you because I have
(22:23):
mostly women on the podcast, soyou're the second guy that's
been on, so thank you, um, and Ido think it's a little bit
harder in a way, like from whatI see.
I feel that you know,culturally, I feel like there's
more and more women, and womenare better at just getting
together and just talking abouttheir feelings and doing all of
that without booze right, butwith men there's still, I feel,
like, a lot of stigma and itmust be harder as well to kind
(22:46):
of break out of that traditional, you know mold.
So, yeah, that that's amazing,that you've been able to do that
, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
If it's all right, I'll.
I'll speak into that a littlebit, because that's I do think
there is, at least for me.
I experienced a lot of peerpressure, especially at first
when I was making a transitionaway from drinking.
So I had, you know, adoptedthis kind of frat boy persona
and like that was how peopleknew me, that was how people
associated with me, and all of asudden I changed.
(23:17):
All of a sudden I was differentand in a lot of ways I was
reflecting a mirror back at them.
Right, they stay in their mind,probably knew that maybe I
should drink less, maybe Ishould drink less, maybe I
should take a break, right.
But they didn't want to hearthat, they didn't want to think
about that, they didn't want toengage with that, and so their
initial reactions are typicallyto just try and bring me back in
right, oh no, you don't need todo that.
(23:38):
Oh, you're fine, you know.
Oh, you know, that's forquitters, whatever, right.
And and what I found was thethe friend groups I had been
associating with that were thatwere the heavy drinking friend
groups.
I had to start creating moredistance.
I had to just like kind of stepback a little bit, like I'm not
going to go to quite as many ofthose hangouts and events.
Uh, I'll go.
(23:59):
I'll go to the important ones,I'll go to the big ones, um, you
know, but I'm going to have aplan, I'm going to have a plan,
I'm going to have a plan for howthat's going to go.
And one of the things that I doa lot of times is just like make
myself like a healthy smoothieor something and kind of, you
know, walk in with that, youknow, and just kind of start
that way or or chug that beforeI even got there, right, and so
(24:25):
like I'm full, I'm, you know,it's probably maybe five or six
or seven different, you know,social hangouts that I was at,
and the first ones were reallyawkward and kind of weird
because all of a sudden I'm thisdifferent person showing up in
a lot of ways.
But towards the end of thatthree months, and definitely
over the course of the next year, I actually started really
enjoying being the sober personaround drunk people, because I
(24:45):
was funnier, I was smarter, Iwas quicker, I was better with
the references of everything.
Like it was amazing.
Um, you know, like, if you wantto get smarter, just let people
around you drink and your IQgoes up by like 10 or 20 points.
So I I started finding that Ijust and I still enjoyed hanging
out with them, but it wasbecause, like cool I'm, you know
, I'm, I'm, I'm actually morecapable in this social situation
(25:07):
now, whereas before I'd beenleaning on alcohol in an attempt
to be, you know, more, moresociable or to be able to handle
it better.
It turns out that without it Iactually did great.
And so, yeah, a lot of thoselittle micro lessons, but there
there was a lot of strongpushback and from a few people
that I didn't expect it from,and that was really the hardest
part is, like there was likekind of some of that like
(25:28):
relational pain that Iexperienced in those first few
months stepping back and, youknow, I kind of had to, in a
sense, like compartmentalizethat.
Like cool, we've built ourfriendship maybe around alcohol
and so, like I think we canbuild it a different way, but
that's just going to take sometime and so I really needed to
make sure I leaned into otherrelationships and so at that
(25:50):
time I started going to churchthe previous year and so I
really leaned into my churchcommunity during that time, and
I still do and that's been ahuge, huge blessing for me.
Kind of like we talked about,when you're just around these
like-minded people, it's so mucheasier to stay to your true
north, to stay to where you knowyou're just around these
like-minded people.
Like it's just it's so mucheasier to to stay to your true
North, to stay to where, whereyou know you're headed.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, yeah, I love, I love that.
Yeah, I think, the more thatyou're around people that make
you feel like you're because Ialways talk about how, like the
voice of the ego and how it cancome in and like what it does to
me is it tells me just to goback to having a glass of red
wine, being air quotes normal,you know, and all of this.
And if I was to, I think there'scertain places that if I was to
(26:35):
go back to and be aroundcertain people, then I'd almost
start to fall into the lies ofthat voice because you'd be
thinking that you weren't normal, you know.
And so I think it's just soimportant to find your own
community and it does it just.
I think that's an importantthing to say to anyone who's
listening, that is earlier on inthe journey is that it may feel
(26:57):
really lonely at the beginning,but it there's so much opens up
and so many kind of alignedpeople do come into your world.
It really does happen, and Ithink I'm at two and a half
years now and you know a lot ofmy close friends now don't drink
and they've just come into mylife.
You know more and more recentlyas well, which has been, which
(27:17):
has been awesome yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And and at first you don't get the benefit of of
being an example.
You know what I mean.
You're kind of just the, thepariah, you're the weird one at
first, but then eventually, asyou're in that for a while and
as you come to be known as thatperson, people start looking up
to you.
In a sense they, when they're alittle bit sober, curious, they
may start asking you questionslike oh hey, so how did you, how
(27:41):
did you take a break?
Or why did you take a break?
Or you know they, they startkind of digging a little bit
deeper into that and you know,if you're willing to step into
that kind of heart space withthem, like you can make a huge
difference.
I've had probably two or threepeople that just randomly, often
just business connections,sometimes been able to kind of
just share a little bit of myjourney and kind of inspired
people to at least take a breakand I think maybe even a couple
(28:04):
other people to at least go on aperiod of sobriety for them.
So it's, it's just really coolto know that even if you're just
doing this for a season, justthat season may inspire other
people and if you're in my caseand you decide for that season
to last your lifetime.
You know you are going to belooked up to in that sense, and
that's good and bad, becausesometimes that adds pressure,
(28:26):
and so my encouragement is don'tdon't try to be something.
You know what I mean.
Just be you, um.
And in doing that, though, youget to, you get to just talk
about your experience.
And that's always myrecommendation when I'm when at
least to myself, when I'mtalking to people is like, don't
preach to them, like don't tellthem you should sober up, or
don't tell them you should quit,like I just tell them some of
(28:48):
my story.
I just say, hey, here's whatworked for me or here's why I
did it, and if that's resonatingwith people, they need to take
that on, because if you try andforce someone into sobriety, if
you try and put it on them orguilt them into it or make them
feel a certain way so that theydo it, it's not going to be
authentic and it's not, it's notgoing to stick around for them.
They, they have to create it inthemselves, for themselves, um,
(29:10):
or you know, you know in inyour case, my case, right, maybe
something, something outside ofyou, put that in you to, to go,
to go that direction yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Thank you for sharing all that.
It is.
It's just sharing your truth,isn't it?
At the end of the day, and theright people, or the people that
need you, like need thatmessage, will find you
essentially like that.
That's actually the wildestthing that I found is that,
particularly like when I cameover to America and and things
like I would I mean, it's infact, it's actually how I met
Pete as well.
It's like I was just sharingabout sober chapses and it it
(29:42):
either really lands for peoplebecause they there's something
sparked within them becausethey're like, oh, wow, okay,
yeah, this is, yeah, this issomething that I need, or you
know or not, and that way, youaren't, you aren't preaching and
it's.
You know, we're all messengersfor each other.
I truly believe that,especially when we're connected
and when you are alcohol free,it's so much easier to be
connected as well.
(30:02):
Right, and to you know, be opento being being open-hearted and
sharing as well, like that's.
I think that's a big thing andI think being confident or I say
this to my clients it's kind oflike when you're strong in that
energy of being alcohol freeand you're proud of it.
Like that's when it has animpact as well, because people
(30:23):
can see that you're kind of likereally empowered by it and it's
empowering to them as well.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah for sure, yeah, it was.
It was really interesting.
I had a networking uh event, uh, actually last night, and a
friend of mine that I had metthrough another networking event
had invited me out, uh, for abeverage beforehand.
Um, and I get invited forcoffees all the time and so, and
once in a while I'll getinvited, hey, you, hey, you know
, come out for a beer orwhatever.
And I just say, sure, yeah,I'll come out.
(30:49):
I like, I.
I try not to even tell peoplethat I'm sober, right, I don't
even like I, it's not even like,because some people just get
start to get weird about it,right, and I don't even order,
(31:11):
like, non-alcoholic beverages.
I'll usually do like a soda orsomething.
But I was like, man, I'mfeeling like feeling a little
crazy today.
I'm like I'm gonna go with anon-alcoholic beer, I'm gonna
see what that's all about, um,and so, yeah, so I got a
non-alcoholic beer.
I've only done that maybe twoor three times, you know, the
past nine years Um, and it wasjust, it was really interesting
because I just drank it and wetalked and like it wasn't like I
(31:34):
had to.
You know, like when I, when Idrank previously, like, like I
accelerated, it was always likemore and more and you know, once
I had one it was into two andonce it was two it was like
three glugs and three's done,you know, and so like it was
always this increasing curve ofconsumption.
And it was just reallyinteresting to to kind of reach,
(31:55):
rewire that connection with thetaste of beer where it was like
cool, I can just have a sip putit down, talk for a minute or
two or three, have a sip put itdown, talk, you know where.
It was just this very kind of,you know, non chemical based
relationship with it which wasreally cool.
So in a sense it was kind oflike a full circle moment for me
where I was like, wow, cool,I'm comfortable in my sobriety
(32:20):
and I'm comfortable enough thatyou know I can, I can dabble a
little bit with a, with a nonalcoholic beer, because usually,
like for especially the firstfew years, just being around,
the smell of beer or wine orliquor or other stuff was just
like it was too much right, itwould just trigger all these old
memories, all this other stuffwould just come up and I'd miss
it more or whatever right.
(32:40):
And so you know I've gottenenough distance now where it's
like cool, maybe I can engagewith it in a different way that
I never have before.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, yeah, we do.
We really rewire those neuralpathways right, Like completely
taking away that association islike that's so freeing when you
get to that point, isn't it?
With any of it?
Like for me, yeah, like some ofthe things that I've been able
to do without booze, and I'mjust like this is amazing
because now I can of the thingsthat I've been able to do
(33:09):
without booze, and I'm just likethis is amazing because now I
can do the things that I didlove with it without any of the
consequences.
Yeah, yeah, and, and some of thebeers are great, like some of
the like they've really startedgoing, like the IPAs and like
some of those really, yeah,really good ones, I think.
I think they are like,depending on whether they are
triggering for people, I guess,but I think that's been a good
thing for a lot of the guys thatI speak to is, you know,
eventually being able to havehave those, cause then I think,
(33:32):
out of everything, they're thebest.
Alcohol free options, like someof the wines and things aren't
so great, yeah, but yeah, yeah,100% Amazing, and so, yeah, so,
so tell me like what the plansare going forwards.
What are you, what have you gotgoing on with the next bit of
sobriety yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So you know, looking at the, the sobriety journey
I've been on, it's been, it'sall been unexpected in in so
many ways I never, I neverthought it would start.
I never thought I would becomea sober person.
And now that I have been for awhile, I often just don't even
(34:15):
think about it.
It's just not something that Iconsider.
And then all of a suddensomeone's like, oh man, you've
been nine years sober, that'samazing.
And I'm like, oh yeah, that iskind of you know, like, oh, that
actually is pretty cool.
And so I'm coming up on 10years sober this September and,
and I think I'm going to, I'mgoing to try to do something,
(34:36):
maybe a little bit more than Inormally do.
I'll probably do like a, youknow, social media post or
something, just kind of talkinga little bit more about it.
And and I think I think nowit's it's leaning more into that
being an example for media havehad is like, man, if
everything's documented, like,do you want that documented,
(35:17):
right?
Do you want that crazy night onfilm, right?
Do you want that recorded?
You know, because for me, cellphones and social media was kind
of just on the on coming upwhen, when I was getting into
alcohol and so you know, by thetime I was, I was out of it,
right it was.
It really had started changingthe way that people interact
with it.
You know, being being blackoutdrunk like there's going to be
even more social stigma andissues that come after the fact.
(35:38):
So I think you know to answeryour deeper question is I want
to do better at being thatexample for people and talking
with people about that.
I want to do better at beingthat example for people and
talking with people about that.
My, um, my grandmother,remarried, um, when she was in
her fifties and, uh, the guy shemarried, his name, was Bill.
Uh, we eventually startedcalling him grand Bill because
(35:58):
he wasn't my grandfather buthe's kind of like my grandfather
and so he in so many ways wasthe grandfather figure that I
needed.
And he actually sobered upright as he was meeting my
grandmother.
So he was still kind of like alittle kind of party boy, like
and this is like legit, likealcoholic tendencies for him.
(36:21):
She was like hey, if you wantto get married to me, you got to
quit forever, that's it.
I'm not tolerating this Becauseher previous husband had been a
drinker and she's like I'm notgoing down that road again.
And so he did.
He quit, he sobered up and hepassed away a couple years ago,
but he made it 30-somethingyears plus of sobriety, and it
(36:44):
was interesting.
(37:08):
No-transcript, need to leavesome hard lines in there, but
when it came to that, there wasjust too many rules or too much
shame or too much expectation,and so I respected the heck out
of the way he did thingsno-transcript, you as well.
(37:56):
But you're going to need totake that journey yourself.
You're going to need to figurethat out for yourself.
You want to go there.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Yeah, because you know, I knowhow insightful this will have
been for a lot of people, Ithink, particularly you know the
guys as well and, like you know, relating to kind of your
earlier days as well, in thatkind of like, I guess is Pratt
society, is that like footballkind of scene?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, it's like for the sick fraternity.
You think of it like, yeah,just like a bunch of guys
hanging out drinking kind ofstuff, stuff, yeah, yeah,
usually something with likecollege and college campuses
yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, I think you have a lot, a lot of insight to
share.
I think it would be amazing foryou to do more of it, for sure.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
I love to learn all about it.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Question I have for you.
So you know, I know you workwith some male clientele.
What are some of theirchallenges?
Are there maybe?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
yeah, I think, um, a lot of the it is about like that
, that fitting in and thatstigma for sure.
Um, that's probably like theone of the biggest challenges is
that social, that social sceneand how to navigate that, I
think particularly early on.
I think another one is datingas well.
(39:13):
I don't know whether you haveany insight on that, but another
one is definitely dating forguys.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
So a couple of things changed actually when, when I
sobered up, I actually changedthe way that I dated too, which
I didn't really think about evenuntil just now.
Before I tried to be anythingto anybody you know I was I
tried to keep my profilerelatively tame but just
interesting enough and and likeit was.
You know it was fine, it wasokay.
(39:40):
But once I sobered up, I waslike you know, if I'm going to
be on like a dating site orsomething like that, like I
actually want to scare awaycertain people because there are
certain ladies that I am not atall interested in, we would not
get along, and I don't evenwant to pretend that we would.
And so, like I just I tried toput as many things in my profile
that would like scare peopleaway.
(40:01):
Right, I think I put sobrietyin there.
I think I put that.
You know I was, you know I wasa religious person.
I took that seriously and I puta couple other things in there.
It's like cool, there's certainthings on this list that are
like man, it's going to terrifycertain people.
Like I don't really like dogsand cats.
Like I know some people lovethem.
Like it's not my vibe and solike, cool, we've just crossed
out like 80% of the dating pool,you know what I mean, but we've
(40:21):
got that 20% left where maybelike my, somebody is there.
Um, and it was superinteresting because about almost
exactly three months after Iquit yeah, three months and like
a week or two Um, so it wasyeah, it was literally after I
quit yeah, three months and likea week or two.
So it was yeah, it wasliterally after I committed to a
lifetime of sobriety.
About a week or two later, Imet the woman that is now my
(40:43):
wife and so, yeah, we met on adating site and like she reached
out to me and like we just kindof started connecting and
because she said she saw some ofthose things that were
intentionally there to scarepeople away, and she was like,
oh, okay, that's.
That's actually reallyinteresting to me, because some
people, you know, try to playthe game and they put stuff on
there so that they can appeal tomultiple audiences.
(41:03):
Um, but I didn't.
I just kind of, you know, madeit very clear.
Well, my stances were oncertain things and that and
that's exactly how we connectedis this.
She's like wow, this, we, wefind these same things important
, um, and it's just that kind ofvalues based dating.
And for her, she, she neverreally got into drinking and so,
as, as we connected, you know,we kind of got further along in
(41:27):
it and like it was a big riskfor her, quite frankly, like to
be hanging out with this guythat was, you know, three months
, four months, five months sober, and it was journey Right with
this guy that was, you know,three months, four months, five
months sober in his journeyright and and start really
seriously dating.
Um, because that doesn't alwayswork out well for the person
that formerly was a drinker,right, they may go back to it,
they may, they may fall back in,uh, and so she took a lot of
(41:47):
risk in in, in pursuing datingwith me.
But what I think worked outreally really well was we.
We kind of came to a mutualconclusion that she was going to
stay sober as well and so forher, like she never really got
into it, like she'd had, likeyou know, maybe a couple of
glasses of champagne orsomething here or there, but
like you know, it had neverbecome a part of her life, just
her, her, her social lifegrowing up, was, was, was
(42:10):
different and so it just wasn'ta part of it, and so so for her
it wasn't that big a deal either.
I was like, oh, I'll just, yeah,I don't, I don't have to do
that.
And so she's been actuallyamazing for me on my journey as
as part of my support, because Iknow when she's going to hang
out with her friends or thegirls or whatever, right Like
(42:31):
she's not going to be kickingback a bunch of you know,
because I know she's not ifpeople are drinking wine, she's
just going to you know pass andshe'll have something else and
it's it's.
It is that partnership that wehave.
So I know, I know a bigchallenge that a lot of guys
have is probably going to bearound Like what if the woman
I'm interested in is a drinker?
Like what, what if she drinks?
(42:51):
And I would.
I would just encourage thosethat are on the journey not to
make any major life decisionsuntil you have a better idea of
where you're at, because for meI now have a value, a personal
value in my life where I'm not adrinker.
That is not a part of who I am.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
And.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I have excised that from me, right that drinker
portion.
And so if you're still in thatspot where you're juggling it,
where you're not sure if youdrink, or you're not sure if you
are going to drink again, oryou're not sure if you're going
to be sober forever, I wouldencourage you, like maybe don't
get engaged just yet, don't getmarried just yet, don't, maybe
don't even try to date seriouslyjust yet, because you haven't
(43:32):
fully settled into who you are,who you're meant to be.
And once you have that settled,things start to become very
clear.
You know what you're lookingfor and you know what's
acceptable or not.
Because for me, dating someoneand eventually marrying someone
that drank a lot, that wasn'tgoing to work for me.
And so you know, if my wife,who was my girlfriend at the
(43:55):
time, like if she, if she, was adrinker, like we probably would
have ended the relationshipafter a couple months uh,
because I would have seemed likethis isn't, this isn't quite
working the way I hoped yeah,yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Thank you so much for bringing it.
There's so much actually I wantto dive into with that, because
it is it's about when youremove the alcohol, you're able
to get really clear on who youare truly are, what you stand
for, like what your core valuesare.
And then what I'm hearing fromyou is, like you know it's being
really strong in that, like inthe non-negotiables, once you're
clear on them, like beingreally strong in the
(44:27):
non-negotiables, essentiallybeing completely your authentic
self by saying exactly what itis that you want and your truth
around that.
And then, yes, scaring off,like you say, the, the ones you
don't want away, um, but gettingto that point of knowing what
those are.
And then and this, this is,rings so true to me it's like
the non-negotiables areabsolutely crucial and sticking
(44:49):
to those.
And then it's alignment right,like it's complete alignment,
and I think that that and itsounds like you will have had a
similar experience with having,you know, a sober relationship,
and I'm not saying everyone hasto have one, but it is bloody
amazing when you have thatfoundation and no booze in there
and you know that.
You know all the stories with meand previous patterns with men
and all of that, and you know my, I truly believe that all those
(45:12):
kind of fear-based ego patternsthat I had, alcohol fueled all
of them.
So, taking that away and beingable to build something really
meaningful without any booze inthe mix, and this like amazing
foundation, and knowing thatnothing's ever going to come in
to, like you know, because,because we all still get
triggered, there's still thingsthat go on, but it's like we get
the space, we create that spaceand we're able to navigate
(45:34):
those situations withoutthrowing in booze, which is just
going to, you know, make a messat times.
So it's yeah, it's gorgeous, soI love all of it and it's yeah,
sticking to thosenon-negotiables and attracting
someone in that's truly alignedis so important.
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, and it was great because I knew and very
early on, know we even we evendid stuff differently where, in
the sense of like I just kind oftold her some of my history, it
was like, hey, like I wasreally into drinking, like I
made a lot of dumb choices in mylife, like I was all in all
this, here's my baggage, youknow what I mean.
Like we got clear on what eachof our baggage was in our
relationship within a month ortwo of starting to date and once
(46:15):
we addressed it, it was like,do we accept it or do we walk
away?
And it's like, if you're notwilling to let that bird fly
away by telling it the truth,like that bird's going to fly
away later at some point.
You know what I mean Becauseyou didn't tell the truth Right
and so, um, so just yeah, likelike you talked about just just
finding that authenticity, beingyourself, being confident in
(46:36):
yourself and being willing tobear the consequences of that.
And a lot of times, I think, interms of business, right, and
businesses have values, andvalues really only matter when
they cost you something right.
And in business that's, youknow, cool, you may lose a
customer because they kind ofare going against some of the
values you believe in and samefor yourself.
(46:56):
Like if you have these valuesthat you believe in, you may
need to let certainrelationships or people or
opportunities or other things gobecause they may not be right.
They may bring you out ofalignment and bring you in a
spot that is not going to behealthy for you.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And I think that's where that faith piece is
massive too right.
It's just trusting and knowingthat it's all happening exactly
as it's meant to, and if itdoesn't, it wasn't right and
that's a really great place, andthat's the surrender and like
letting go of control, isn't itEssentially?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Oh yeah, and like when you're in the middle of a
breakup, like telling a friendthat like they don't want to
hear it, but at the same time,like as you process it, you do
feel that truth right, like okay, yeah, you know what this, this
wasn't for me, like it's God orthe universe or wherever you
know.
There's another plan, there's,there's something else for me
and I'm just going to trust that.
I'm going to lean into that.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, yeah, lesson, or a blessing, as they say.
Thank you, andrew.
Well, that brings it brings, Ithink, to a beautiful close.
That was, yeah, great.
I'm so grateful that you askedme that question actually as
well.
That was awesome and it's beengorgeous having you on.
And for anyone that's thinkingof writing a book then, oh my
goodness, I cannot recommendandrew enough over at story
(48:11):
builders.
And, yeah, thank you you got it.
Thanks for having me on, didithank you for listening to
today's episode of the soberchapters podcast.
I hope you enjoyed it and gotlots of good information from it
.
I'm really keen to share thesemessages as far and wide as
possible, and I know howimportant it is to receive
(48:33):
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(48:55):
follow along on instagram it'ssober underscore chapters you'll
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If you'd like to learn moreabout my one-on-one coaching
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(49:16):
wwwsoberchapterscom.
I'd also love to hear from youif you have any feedback or you
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I would love to hear from youand support you in any way that
(49:38):
I can.
Hello and welcome to the Sober Chapters podcast.
I am your host, dee Dee Jordan,and I'm so excited to be
sharing with you all of theincredible ways that removing
alcohol for a chapter willreinvent you forever.
You see, removing alcohol isabout so much more than removing
alcohol.
It's about immense personal andspiritual growth.
(00:22):
It's about discovering who youtruly are and about stepping out
of your patterns and into yourpurpose and your power.
Wherever you are on youralcohol-free or sober curious
journey, this podcast is for you, so grab yourself your favorite
cuppa and come join me in asafe space to listen, to share
(00:46):
and to feel I'm so grateful thatyou're here.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Sober Chapters podcast, and
(01:07):
today I'm joined by AndrewBionet, who is officially my
story guide at Story Builders.
He's essentially my book coach,helping me at the moment with
the Sober Chapters book, andwe've just been getting on like
a house on fire.
I'm always chatting to himabout all my stories, all the
drunken stories, and he'sactually sober as well, and I
(01:29):
just thought it was suchalignment and I knew I wanted to
get him on the podcast so wecould actually hear a bit more
about him as well.
He doesn't just have to hearabout me.
Hey, andrew, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Fantastic Deedee Really excited to be here and,
like you said, it's been reallycool.
There's a lot of people I'veworked on their books with them
and there's some alignment orless alignment, and for us it's
been really cool because, like,oh man, if I got to pick a book
I could help with, this would betop of the list for me.
So this is really cool that wedo have so much alignment on
(02:01):
this topic.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Oh, absolutely.
You've made it so special forme, like it's.
You know, I always say there'slike never any coincidences, but
from the minute we startedtalking back in September, I was
just like, wow, like this is,this is amazing, and you've been
able to really pull out so muchof my story and my journey and
it's, it's been, it's beenawesome.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You bet yeah, it's been awesome, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I guess I just wanted to hear.
I know we've touched on some ofyour kind of background when it
came to going alcohol free, butit'd be really good to hear
kind of how all that evolved foryou, maybe from the beginning,
I guess.
If that works, Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So I guess I'll start back to some of my early
experiences with alcohol.
So for me I was kind of late tothe game, apparently, compared
to a lot of people.
I started at like 19, 20-ishstarted drinking and all
completely social-based.
It was with other people andcool, let's have a couple beers,
(02:59):
let's hang out, we're at aparty, whatever.
And for the first few years itwas, it was very simple.
It wasn't, wasn't anythingmajor, but eventually I
transitioned through a coupledifferent colleges and I kind of
ended up at the university Iended up graduating from and I
kind of made alcohol kind of apart of my identity.
(03:20):
I kind of started likeidentifying as like a party boy.
I kind of started likeidentifying as like a party boy
and and really kind of kind ofmade like that kind of frat boy
persona.
I tried to fit inside that,even though I didn't.
It wasn't a good fit for it.
I I consider myself in a lot ofways kind of more intellectual.
I like having interestingdiscussions with people talking
(03:42):
about fun stuff and but I justkind of would act like an idiot
when when I'd be drinking and solike it was kind of like Dr
Jekyll and Mr Hyde, uh kind ofvibe to it and I didn't know
this at the time, but I reallystruggle a lot with anxiety and
and this was something that kindof helped smooth out some of my
social anxiety, um, and inparticular, uh, you know, in
(04:07):
dealing with members of theopposite gender, right, and
being able to like trying to bea little bit more cool or a
little bit less nervous or weird, which was so funny because I
usually became more weird ormore awkward or more everything
because of alcohol, and so itwas just this really bizarre
coping mechanism that reallydidn't help and didn't work for
me.
But I leaned into that for anumber of years and I graduated
(04:30):
college and you know, I kind ofstayed in that kind of college
lifestyle even when I had myfirst job, my first full-time
career, and it I mean it wouldreally put me into a dark place.
You know, I was staying upsuper, super late on weekends,
till three, four in the morningand then trying to get back in
line for work, get ready for aweek, up at 7 AM the next day,
(04:52):
to get into the groove again.
And it was like we were justtalking about jet lag, right.
It's like I felt jet laggedevery single week.
Just getting back into my workweek and I found that I was just
kind of circling the circlingthe drain, going and going down
into a kind of a dark place.
And so I had my first wake upcall when I was put on a
performance improvement plan atwork.
(05:13):
So, for those who don't know,sometimes called a pip and
usually it's just the prelude toyou getting fired.
Is usually how it works.
Sometimes it's done in a niceway where it's like trying to
make you better so you can staywith the company.
But, like you know, I was.
I, my performance was not whereit needed to be and I really
wasn't motivated to improve it,and so it was kind of my
(05:34):
beginning of the end.
And then I was, I was exitedout of the company after that.
So here I am, you know, now,full blown no job, no
aspirations, no anything.
And I would say that wasprobably the darkest spot in my
life personally.
Was was in there, and then Istarted drinking alone more
often in that period of time andyou know, I'd go online and I'd
(05:56):
, you know, apply for things anddo other stuff and I'd, you
know, collect my unemploymentchecks and then like, just like,
drink the rest of the day, likethat was.
That was like my pattern, youknow collect my unemployment
checks and then like, just like,drink the rest of the day, like
that was.
That was like my pattern, youknow.
And that went on for many, manymonths and fortunately my
brother kind of reached out andhe's kind of he recognized that
I was struggling, not doing well, and he said hey, have you ever
(06:20):
thought about becoming apersonal trainer?
And I said Nope, never, neverconsidered the idea, and he said
well, you've got thepersonality for it.
You can be fantastic at it.
All you'd have to learn is moreof the technical background of
it.
And really it's just a hightouch, high, high people kind of
job.
I think you'd be great at it.
And so I ended up kind of comingout to check out some of his
(06:42):
stuff while I was interviewingfor other jobs at the time.
I ended up kind of coming outto check out some of his stuff
while I was interviewing forother jobs at the time and I
kind of came down between thisone job and the personal
training thing and the one jobwas going to be like this six
figure medical device sales kindof job and I was like, ok,
that's got a lot of potential toit.
And then the other one on thepersonal training side, is cool.
Until you get certified as atrainer, you're like a minimum
(07:02):
wage helper, basically, untilyou can make that happen, and I
can only get you so many hoursdoing that.
And so it was like, okay, youknow like two very, very
disparate amounts of money andkind of career paths.
And so I went into one of thefinal interviews for the sales
job and I absolutely bombed theinterview.
(07:22):
It was just, it was absolutelyhorrible and in retrospect I
should have been more preparedfor it.
It was a sales job and and thelady was just really just
downplaying all my experienceand just using a lot of just
basic sales tactics.
But up until then I had had alot of great kind of cupcake
interviews and just kind of wentin like, oh, I'm doing awesome,
and I wasn't prepared for anytype of critical feedback.
(07:45):
And so, like I just was superflustered the whole call.
And I got done with the calland I'm like, even if they offer
me the job, I'm not going totake it.
This sucks.
And so I didn't end up movingon.
It came down to between me andanother candidate.
The other candidate got the joband so then the next day I
started working with my brotherand so I transitioned out of
(08:16):
where I was living, eventuallymoved back to my hometown where
my brother was living andworking, got certified, kind of
climbed back up the incomeladder back to where I was
previously and then'll putleadership quotes uh coach in
quotes.
Uh, he was also a counselor aswell, so he was kind of a
leadership coach and a counselor.
And so I went under him, youknow to, to get some leadership
coaching.
That kind of helped me with mythe training side of things.
(08:37):
And after I filled out kind ofthe intake survey, he's like hey
, are you open to doing somelike counseling as well?
And I was like, sure, man,whatever, whatever you think I
need.
And so we ended up workingtogether for a number of years
and it was a really difficultprocess, starting to dig in to
myself and my challenges.
And so he recommended a littlebit early on that I take a break
(09:00):
from alcohol, that I just kindof step back from it and and get
some space.
And you know, at that point itwas more just occasional binge
drinking, and you know, for meit was maybe twice a month ish,
um, but it was drinking, youknow, 10 plus beverages in an
evening, uh, right, and so so itwas.
It was a high quantity in thatperiod of time and so so the
(09:22):
recommendation was you shouldget some space from it.
Like you need to kind of dothat in order to work on some of
your recovery and just figuringyourself out.
And I resisted it, I resistedit so hard, I pushed back.
I'm like no beer is happiness.
Like this stuff is awesome,like how could I do without that
?
Right, like sitting in the sundrinking a beer, hopping and
hopping in the lake, likethere's nothing better, Right,
(09:52):
you know, I felt like my lifewas a Budweiser commercial, and
so for a number of months Ididn't lean into that and
eventually I had the worsthangover of my life, which had
come after like a three daybender over, like a holiday
weekend with my friends, and Ihad embarrassed myself around my
friends that whole weekend.
Like I just acted like acomplete idiot.
Um, and so I kind of get get tothat that Monday following that
weekend and like I already feelhorrible, like it's, it'll be
(10:13):
easy the first two weeks to notdrink.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I have no interest at all Like you know what.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I'm, I'm going to commit to a short period of time
.
I'm going to commit to threemonths of no drinking.
The first two weeks to a monthis already basically written off
because this part's going to beeasy.
And so I started my journeythere.
I started with kind of thatsmall commitment.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, I love that.
I'm just like I knew bits of itbut I hadn't heard all of it
and I'm just like, obviously Ican relate to so much of it.
Definitely, even you know theearly like the anxiety bit at
the beginning because like Ididn't realize like how much I
suffered with that or the socialanxiety or any of it.
And I realize now that, likeyou know, I was quite, I was
(10:55):
actually quite confident as alittle girl.
And then I think around the agethat everything changes, like
hormones and, I think, somebullying and like bits and
pieces, and then I got involvedwith alcohol really young and it
was kind of like that obviouslyjust made me feel so good in
that moment that then I latchedon to that and then that became
this like false comfort blanketand then all these like
deep-rooted insecurities werethen just masked throughout all
(11:19):
my teens and 20s and it's onlybeen like, yeah, since taking it
away and really working andshining a light on all of that
stuff, that it's really helpedto heal it.
And and then, of course, yeah,like the the whole doing doing
that work, you know, withoutwithout the booze, like like
your counselor suggested, likeit's it's just a no brainer
right Like you can't.
You can't get to the bottom ofthings when you're still, even
(11:43):
if it is just the odd big night.
That big night sets you back somuch and that was my life for
years and years and we get allthese like little well, I guess
not even little like with whathappened with you leaving your
job, but all these kind ofthings that happen along the way
to show you that alcohol justisn't serving you anymore.
But we don't, we don't listen,do we?
(12:03):
For a?
We're all on our own uniquejourney with it, I guess, and
this and when the time's right,yeah, yeah, so thank you.
And how did you feel then, when, when that happened, when you
took that three months break?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah.
So the three month break wasreally interesting because I had
really gotten into a rhythmwith the uh counselor I was
working with and like it was areally transformative three
months, like we really got insome deep stuff.
We did a lot of deep worktogether.
I learned a lot about myself.
I was going to some 12 stepgroups at the time and just kind
(12:34):
of hearing other people beingvulnerable and sharing their
stories kind of helped me toopen up a little bit more,
helped me to share more of mystory and in a sense, kind of
let some of that darkness thathad been kind of just hiding
inside and just kind of bring itinto the light, just like say
it, you know, just put it outthere.
And once I started being ableto do that, once I was willing
to kind of open up about some ofthose kind of dark, shameful
(12:57):
like oh man, I can't believe.
You know, I don't want anybodyto judge me or anybody to think
about this right.
As soon as I was able to letsomeone that go and speak that
out, it was like this burden wasabsolutely lifted off of me.
And by the time I got to mythree months of kind of
reevaluation time.
You know, I got.
I got to that spot and I'm likeman, I am the happiest I've
(13:18):
ever been.
I am, you know, in the bestshape I've ever been.
I am feeling really, reallygood, like alcohol has nothing
to offer me, like there, thereis no way that that can enhance
my life, because my life isamazing right now.
And so from there I was like,okay, I'm just, I'm going to
commit, because adding alcoholback in will not improve
(13:40):
anything, it will only makethings worse.
And I love where I'm at.
And so it was really a anadjustment by.
You know, in a sense startedcold Turkey but then kind of
turned into like I don't everwant to go back.
You know, I don't, I don'treally like reminisce about it,
I don't like I don't miss it, Idon't wish I could, because I
(14:00):
don't, I don't want it, I haveno interest in it anymore.
And it's so odd to think aboutthat, because for so long I was
just so attached to it and Icouldn't imagine not having it
come with me, not being able tolean on that in a social event,
not being able to pack thosebeers when we're going on a
camping trip.
Right, it was all just bakedinto my life, and then, once I
(14:24):
created that separation, I never, I never, had an interest to
bring it back, and I'm, you know, nine years sober at this point
, and you know, other than theodd, you know, dream of a party
from back in the day, you know,like I don't really have any,
any, any interest in it, right,and so it's been a really,
really cool journey to get here,though.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, amazing, amazing, yeah, I know I just
feel that as well.
Like it just gets better andbetter and better, like it's
just it is magic and I thinkit's such a gift.
I think it's you know, it's agift that kind of it does end up
presenting those problems,because then you do get the
chance to reevaluate and takethat break, whatever that looks
(15:04):
like, and I think you know, togive yourself the gift of
sobriety long term is justgorgeous, like Pete and I were
actually talking about itbecause he's sober as well.
So for everyone listening, I'mup in the Yukon at the moment,
at Pete's place, which is justmagical.
I'm in the middle of a forest,which is just wild, and he's
sober and we were talking like,yeah, like whether we would ever
(15:28):
like drink again and it's kindof like a non-negotiable for our
relationship, our life.
Like we're just like, why wouldwe even bother?
Like to be able to just havesuch a like fulfilling, amazing
foundation without ever bringingthat into.
It is just so special and Ijust there's just no, there's no
place for it.
It would only take away fromlife now, like it would add
(15:50):
absolutely nothing.
So, yeah, it's, yeah, it soundslike you feel exactly the same.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
How did you get into the bookcoaching then?
I'd love to hear about that.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah yeah.
So, man, that's a that's awinding road as well.
So I was a personal trainer fora number of years, worked with
my brother, so that was abouteight years.
And then, like many people,covid came around.
I lived in New York State,which was kind of, like you know
, new York City was somewhatlike the epicenter of a lot of
casualties, a lot of stuff goingon.
So New York, as a state withinthe United States, was a lot
(16:24):
more intense and strict as faras restrictions and so it was
like really intense lockdownsand basically the fitness
industry was completely shutdown.
There was almost no in-personinteractions, and this goes on
for a couple months and theneven after that few months, it's
super restricted.
Fitness industry had asignificant number more
restrictions than otherindustries, and so that it made
(16:47):
the job just worse.
It was less fun, it was lessexciting, and I was already
getting to a spot where I feltlike I needed to grow more, I
needed to do more, I needed tocreate more, and that, combined
with the job you know, kind ofjust feeling less fulfilling,
just kind of made it clear forme that, like you know what, I
think it's my time to step backand look for what it is that I'm
(17:08):
going to do next.
So, and part of that likesearching process, of like
wanting to do more the coupleyears previous I had published
two books, so I had gone throughand learned how to do it,
figured out you know what myclients wanted, how I could help
them, serve them with a book,and so I learned a ton about the
book publishing process just inthat role, in that job.
(17:29):
And so from there I pivoted andI moved into a chamber of
commerce role for a little bitand then eventually shifted into
the publishing industryno-transcript and doing an
amazing job.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I love it.
I love working with you,because at what point then did
you like?
How do you think that beingsober helped you to get onto
this path?
I guess as well.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, so, so, yeah, it was probably so, looking back
at the day, it was about 2015.
I think when I, when I startedmy sobriety journey and so I was
about a year, I think, maybetwo-ish years, into being a
personal trainer, so it was kindof this like, in a lot of ways,
(18:16):
just being around my brotherand kind of being in that
environment and just kind ofbeing around these other health
oriented people was extremelyhelpful, because I just, in a
sense, I kind of transplantedmyself into a new community,
because I used to live in adifferent city, about you know,
an hour and a half away, and Ihad, like you know, my drinking
network out there, right, and itwas like, oh man, you know, if
it's eight o'clock at night, Iknow who to call, we'll go get
(18:37):
some beers, you know, like we,you know there's, there's always
that person that was available.
And so when I shifted, like mywhole social structure changed
and the whole people that wereinfluencing me changed as well,
and I was spending a significantamount of time with people that
were 10, 20, 30, 40 years olderthan me and being around people
(18:57):
that are a little bit older, alittle bit wiser.
Uh, and then the price pointthat we were at as far as the
fitness services we provided, um, it brought in a certain type
of person we were, we were ahigher price point, and so it
brought in these people thathave found a level of success
and have, uh, seen a level of um, you know, growth and change in
their lives, just to get towhere they're at.
(19:18):
And so I was able to learn justso much from, from those people,
um, and another thing that Ifound was as, as my sobriety
journey progressed, I I learnedmore and more about my
anxiousness, my, my anxiety, andhow I, how I handle that, how I
deal with that, what I, what Ican do with that, and and that's
(19:40):
just been a gift of a journeyin a lot of ways, because when I
really think about it, like somuch of it stems so far back in
into childhood right, you cantake that all the way back to to
, you know, when you're superimpressionable and then you have
no defenses, uh, against someof these challenges, and so so
for me to now be able to, tocope with my anxiety in healthy
(20:03):
ways, to be able to, um, do workthat matters to me and that is
going to make a bigger impact inthe world.
It's, you know, it's like thiskind of virtuous cycle, right.
Everything kind of spinstogether because of some initial
commitments and some initialdecisions, and then I make the
next commitment and make some ofthose next decisions and it
(20:24):
just kind of brings me to thenext piece of my journey.
And in the past, really three,three years, four years, I'd say
I felt more like an adventurerthan anything else, like I've
just I don't really know wherethe next year is going to bring
me, or the next three years aregoing to bring me.
Uh, you know, I may be in doingwildly different things and and
that's fun and that's reallyexciting.
And anxious me, the, theanxious me that's out of control
(20:47):
with anxiety, uh, I would hatethat.
Right, I would want a littlebit more of that security, a
little bit more knowing what'sgoing to happen.
Um, but I've gotten to a spotwhere the unknown is more
exciting than something to beafraid of.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, there's so many things that I was like yep, yep
, yeah, like well, yes, trusting, surrendering all of that.
I mean faith is a huge piece, asyou know, for me and I believe,
for you too, and I think that's, you know, a big part of my
message that I always talk aboutis how I really believe we're
actually guided to removealcohol for a higher reason,
whatever that looks like.
(21:20):
And generally, yeah, likeservice work, and I guess you
get to bring like so manypowerful stories and messages to
the world with the work thatyou do as well, right, like by
helping people to bring that outof them, because you've, you've
really helped me to, you know,to to do that and to keep going
forwards with it, because it'sbeen times where it's like it's
pretty confronting as wellbringing all of this out to the
(21:41):
world about my own story.
So that's been a whole journeyin itself.
But I think as well, like withwhat you said, like the
importance of that community andbeing around people that are on
a similar path or that are likeinto that growth world as well,
is so important and you kind ofyou do end up just replacing,
like boozing or alcohol withsomething which is so much more
(22:03):
purposeful and I feel like youkind of have to right.
You can't just remove the boozeand do the try and live the
same life.
That just doesn't work, becausethen you just end up with that
lack mentality, right, and likeyou're missing out when you're
actually not.
But when you see that otherside and it just, yeah, it just
grows and grows, it's, it'sgorgeous and I think as well.
The other thing I wanted totouch on with you because I have
(22:23):
mostly women on the podcast, soyou're the second guy that's
been on, so thank you, um, and Ido think it's a little bit
harder in a way, like from whatI see.
I feel that you know,culturally, I feel like there's
more and more women, and womenare better at just getting
together and just talking abouttheir feelings and doing all of
that without booze right, butwith men there's still, I feel,
like, a lot of stigma and itmust be harder as well to kind
(22:46):
of break out of that traditional, you know mold.
So, yeah, that that's amazing,that you've been able to do that
, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
If it's all right, I'll.
I'll speak into that a littlebit, because that's I do think
there is, at least for me.
I experienced a lot of peerpressure, especially at first
when I was making a transitionaway from drinking.
So I had, you know, adoptedthis kind of frat boy persona
and like that was how peopleknew me, that was how people
associated with me, and all of asudden I changed.
(23:17):
All of a sudden I was differentand in a lot of ways I was
reflecting a mirror back at them.
Right, they stay in their mind,probably knew that maybe I
should drink less, maybe Ishould drink less, maybe I
should take a break, right.
But they didn't want to hearthat, they didn't want to think
about that, they didn't want toengage with that, and so their
initial reactions are typicallyto just try and bring me back in
right, oh no, you don't need todo that.
(23:38):
Oh, you're fine, you know.
Oh, you know, that's forquitters, whatever, right.
And and what I found was thethe friend groups I had been
associating with that were thatwere the heavy drinking friend
groups.
I had to start creating moredistance.
I had to just like kind of stepback a little bit, like I'm not
going to go to quite as many ofthose hangouts and events.
Uh, I'll go.
(23:59):
I'll go to the important ones,I'll go to the big ones, um, you
know, but I'm going to have aplan, I'm going to have a plan,
I'm going to have a plan for howthat's going to go.
And one of the things that I doa lot of times is just like make
myself like a healthy smoothieor something and kind of, you
know, walk in with that, youknow, and just kind of start
that way or or chug that beforeI even got there, right, and so
(24:25):
like I'm full, I'm, you know,it's probably maybe five or six
or seven different, you know,social hangouts that I was at,
and the first ones were reallyawkward and kind of weird
because all of a sudden I'm thisdifferent person showing up in
a lot of ways.
But towards the end of thatthree months, and definitely
over the course of the next year, I actually started really
enjoying being the sober personaround drunk people, because I
(24:45):
was funnier, I was smarter, Iwas quicker, I was better with
the references of everything.
Like it was amazing.
Um, you know, like, if you wantto get smarter, just let people
around you drink and your IQgoes up by like 10 or 20 points.
So I I started finding that Ijust and I still enjoyed hanging
out with them, but it wasbecause, like cool I'm, you know
, I'm, I'm, I'm actually morecapable in this social situation
(25:07):
now, whereas before I'd beenleaning on alcohol in an attempt
to be, you know, more, moresociable or to be able to handle
it better.
It turns out that without it Iactually did great.
And so, yeah, a lot of thoselittle micro lessons, but there
there was a lot of strongpushback and from a few people
that I didn't expect it from,and that was really the hardest
part is, like there was likekind of some of that like
(25:28):
relational pain that Iexperienced in those first few
months stepping back and, youknow, I kind of had to, in a
sense, like compartmentalizethat.
Like cool, we've built ourfriendship maybe around alcohol
and so, like I think we canbuild it a different way, but
that's just going to take sometime and so I really needed to
make sure I leaned into otherrelationships and so at that
(25:50):
time I started going to churchthe previous year and so I
really leaned into my churchcommunity during that time, and
I still do and that's been ahuge, huge blessing for me.
Kind of like we talked about,when you're just around these
like-minded people, it's so mucheasier to stay to your true
north, to stay to where you knowyou're just around these
like-minded people.
Like it's just it's so mucheasier to to stay to your true
North, to stay to where, whereyou know you're headed.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, yeah, I love, I love that.
Yeah, I think, the more thatyou're around people that make
you feel like you're because Ialways talk about how, like the
voice of the ego and how it cancome in and like what it does to
me is it tells me just to goback to having a glass of red
wine, being air quotes normal,you know, and all of this.
And if I was to, I think there'scertain places that if I was to
(26:35):
go back to and be aroundcertain people, then I'd almost
start to fall into the lies ofthat voice because you'd be
thinking that you weren't normal, you know.
And so I think it's just soimportant to find your own
community and it does it just.
I think that's an importantthing to say to anyone who's
listening, that is earlier on inthe journey is that it may feel
(26:57):
really lonely at the beginning,but it there's so much opens up
and so many kind of alignedpeople do come into your world.
It really does happen, and Ithink I'm at two and a half
years now and you know a lot ofmy close friends now don't drink
and they've just come into mylife.
You know more and more recentlyas well, which has been, which
(27:17):
has been awesome yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And and at first you don't get the benefit of of
being an example.
You know what I mean.
You're kind of just the, thepariah, you're the weird one at
first, but then eventually, asyou're in that for a while and
as you come to be known as thatperson, people start looking up
to you.
In a sense they, when they're alittle bit sober, curious, they
may start asking you questionslike oh hey, so how did you, how
(27:41):
did you take a break?
Or why did you take a break?
Or you know they, they startkind of digging a little bit
deeper into that and you know,if you're willing to step into
that kind of heart space withthem, like you can make a huge
difference.
I've had probably two or threepeople that just randomly, often
just business connections,sometimes been able to kind of
just share a little bit of myjourney and kind of inspired
people to at least take a breakand I think maybe even a couple
(28:04):
other people to at least go on aperiod of sobriety for them.
So it's, it's just really coolto know that even if you're just
doing this for a season, justthat season may inspire other
people and if you're in my caseand you decide for that season
to last your lifetime.
You know you are going to belooked up to in that sense, and
that's good and bad, becausesometimes that adds pressure,
(28:26):
and so my encouragement is don'tdon't try to be something.
You know what I mean.
Just be you, um.
And in doing that, though, youget to, you get to just talk
about your experience.
And that's always myrecommendation when I'm when at
least to myself, when I'mtalking to people is like, don't
preach to them, like don't tellthem you should sober up, or
don't tell them you should quit,like I just tell them some of
(28:48):
my story.
I just say, hey, here's whatworked for me or here's why I
did it, and if that's resonatingwith people, they need to take
that on, because if you try andforce someone into sobriety, if
you try and put it on them orguilt them into it or make them
feel a certain way so that theydo it, it's not going to be
authentic and it's not, it's notgoing to stick around for them.
They, they have to create it inthemselves, for themselves, um,
(29:10):
or you know, you know in inyour case, my case, right, maybe
something, something outside ofyou, put that in you to, to go,
to go that direction yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Thank you for sharing all that.
It is.
It's just sharing your truth,isn't it?
At the end of the day, and theright people, or the people that
need you, like need thatmessage, will find you
essentially like that.
That's actually the wildestthing that I found is that,
particularly like when I cameover to America and and things
like I would I mean, it's infact, it's actually how I met
Pete as well.
It's like I was just sharingabout sober chapses and it it
(29:42):
either really lands for peoplebecause they there's something
sparked within them becausethey're like, oh, wow, okay,
yeah, this is, yeah, this issomething that I need, or you
know or not, and that way, youaren't, you aren't preaching and
it's.
You know, we're all messengersfor each other.
I truly believe that,especially when we're connected
and when you are alcohol free,it's so much easier to be
connected as well.
(30:02):
Right, and to you know, be opento being being open-hearted and
sharing as well, like that's.
I think that's a big thing andI think being confident or I say
this to my clients it's kind oflike when you're strong in that
energy of being alcohol freeand you're proud of it.
Like that's when it has animpact as well, because people
(30:23):
can see that you're kind of likereally empowered by it and it's
empowering to them as well.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah for sure, yeah, it was.
It was really interesting.
I had a networking uh event, uh, actually last night, and a
friend of mine that I had metthrough another networking event
had invited me out, uh, for abeverage beforehand.
Um, and I get invited forcoffees all the time and so, and
once in a while I'll getinvited, hey, you, hey, you know
, come out for a beer orwhatever.
And I just say, sure, yeah,I'll come out.
(30:49):
I like, I.
I try not to even tell peoplethat I'm sober, right, I don't
even like I, it's not even like,because some people just get
start to get weird about it,right, and I don't even order,
(31:11):
like, non-alcoholic beverages.
I'll usually do like a soda orsomething.
But I was like, man, I'mfeeling like feeling a little
crazy today.
I'm like I'm gonna go with anon-alcoholic beer, I'm gonna
see what that's all about, um,and so, yeah, so I got a
non-alcoholic beer.
I've only done that maybe twoor three times, you know, the
past nine years Um, and it wasjust, it was really interesting
because I just drank it and wetalked and like it wasn't like I
(31:34):
had to.
You know, like when I, when Idrank previously, like, like I
accelerated, it was always likemore and more and you know, once
I had one it was into two andonce it was two it was like
three glugs and three's done,you know, and so like it was
always this increasing curve ofconsumption.
And it was just reallyinteresting to to kind of reach,
(31:55):
rewire that connection with thetaste of beer where it was like
cool, I can just have a sip putit down, talk for a minute or
two or three, have a sip put itdown, talk, you know where.
It was just this very kind of,you know, non chemical based
relationship with it which wasreally cool.
So in a sense it was kind oflike a full circle moment for me
where I was like, wow, cool,I'm comfortable in my sobriety
(32:20):
and I'm comfortable enough thatyou know I can, I can dabble a
little bit with a, with a nonalcoholic beer, because usually,
like for especially the firstfew years, just being around,
the smell of beer or wine orliquor or other stuff was just
like it was too much right, itwould just trigger all these old
memories, all this other stuffwould just come up and I'd miss
it more or whatever right.
(32:40):
And so you know I've gottenenough distance now where it's
like cool, maybe I can engagewith it in a different way that
I never have before.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, yeah, we do.
We really rewire those neuralpathways right, Like completely
taking away that association islike that's so freeing when you
get to that point, isn't it?
With any of it?
Like for me, yeah, like some ofthe things that I've been able
to do without booze, and I'mjust like this is amazing
because now I can of the thingsthat I've been able to do
(33:09):
without booze, and I'm just likethis is amazing because now I
can do the things that I didlove with it without any of the
consequences.
Yeah, yeah, and, and some of thebeers are great, like some of
the like they've really startedgoing, like the IPAs and like
some of those really, yeah,really good ones, I think.
I think they are like,depending on whether they are
triggering for people, I guess,but I think that's been a good
thing for a lot of the guys thatI speak to is, you know,
eventually being able to havehave those, cause then I think,
(33:32):
out of everything, they're thebest.
Alcohol free options, like someof the wines and things aren't
so great, yeah, but yeah, yeah,100% Amazing, and so, yeah, so,
so tell me like what the plansare going forwards.
What are you, what have you gotgoing on with the next bit of
sobriety yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So you know, looking at the, the sobriety journey
I've been on, it's been, it'sall been unexpected in in so
many ways I never, I neverthought it would start.
I never thought I would becomea sober person.
And now that I have been for awhile, I often just don't even
(34:15):
think about it.
It's just not something that Iconsider.
And then all of a suddensomeone's like, oh man, you've
been nine years sober, that'samazing.
And I'm like, oh yeah, that iskind of you know, like, oh, that
actually is pretty cool.
And so I'm coming up on 10years sober this September and,
and I think I'm going to, I'mgoing to try to do something,
(34:36):
maybe a little bit more than Inormally do.
I'll probably do like a, youknow, social media post or
something, just kind of talkinga little bit more about it.
And and I think I think nowit's it's leaning more into that
being an example for media havehad is like, man, if
everything's documented, like,do you want that documented,
(35:17):
right?
Do you want that crazy night onfilm, right?
Do you want that recorded?
You know, because for me, cellphones and social media was kind
of just on the on coming upwhen, when I was getting into
alcohol and so you know, by thetime I was, I was out of it,
right it was.
It really had started changingthe way that people interact
with it.
You know, being being blackoutdrunk like there's going to be
even more social stigma andissues that come after the fact.
(35:38):
So I think you know to answeryour deeper question is I want
to do better at being thatexample for people and talking
with people about that.
I want to do better at beingthat example for people and
talking with people about that.
My, um, my grandmother,remarried, um, when she was in
her fifties and, uh, the guy shemarried, his name, was Bill.
Uh, we eventually startedcalling him grand Bill because
(35:58):
he wasn't my grandfather buthe's kind of like my grandfather
and so he in so many ways wasthe grandfather figure that I
needed.
And he actually sobered upright as he was meeting my
grandmother.
So he was still kind of like alittle kind of party boy, like
and this is like legit, likealcoholic tendencies for him.
(36:21):
She was like hey, if you wantto get married to me, you got to
quit forever, that's it.
I'm not tolerating this Becauseher previous husband had been a
drinker and she's like I'm notgoing down that road again.
And so he did.
He quit, he sobered up and hepassed away a couple years ago,
but he made it 30-somethingyears plus of sobriety, and it
(36:44):
was interesting.
(37:08):
No-transcript, need to leavesome hard lines in there, but
when it came to that, there wasjust too many rules or too much
shame or too much expectation,and so I respected the heck out
of the way he did thingsno-transcript, you as well.
(37:56):
But you're going to need totake that journey yourself.
You're going to need to figurethat out for yourself.
You want to go there.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Yeah, because you know, I knowhow insightful this will have
been for a lot of people, Ithink, particularly you know the
guys as well and, like you know, relating to kind of your
earlier days as well, in thatkind of like, I guess is Pratt
society, is that like footballkind of scene?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, it's like for the sick fraternity.
You think of it like, yeah,just like a bunch of guys
hanging out drinking kind ofstuff, stuff, yeah, yeah,
usually something with likecollege and college campuses
yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, I think you have a lot, a lot of insight to
share.
I think it would be amazing foryou to do more of it, for sure.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
I love to learn all about it.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Question I have for you.
So you know, I know you workwith some male clientele.
What are some of theirchallenges?
Are there maybe?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
yeah, I think, um, a lot of the it is about like that
, that fitting in and thatstigma for sure.
Um, that's probably like theone of the biggest challenges is
that social, that social sceneand how to navigate that, I
think particularly early on.
I think another one is datingas well.
(39:13):
I don't know whether you haveany insight on that, but another
one is definitely dating forguys.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
So a couple of things changed actually when, when I
sobered up, I actually changedthe way that I dated too, which
I didn't really think about evenuntil just now.
Before I tried to be anythingto anybody you know I was I
tried to keep my profilerelatively tame but just
interesting enough and and likeit was.
You know it was fine, it wasokay.
(39:40):
But once I sobered up, I waslike you know, if I'm going to
be on like a dating site orsomething like that, like I
actually want to scare awaycertain people because there are
certain ladies that I am not atall interested in, we would not
get along, and I don't evenwant to pretend that we would.
And so, like I just I tried toput as many things in my profile
that would like scare peopleaway.
(40:01):
Right, I think I put sobrietyin there.
I think I put that.
You know I was, you know I wasa religious person.
I took that seriously and I puta couple other things in there.
It's like cool, there's certainthings on this list that are
like man, it's going to terrifycertain people.
Like I don't really like dogsand cats.
Like I know some people lovethem.
Like it's not my vibe and solike, cool, we've just crossed
out like 80% of the dating pool,you know what I mean, but we've
(40:21):
got that 20% left where maybelike my, somebody is there.
Um, and it was superinteresting because about almost
exactly three months after Iquit yeah, three months and like
a week or two Um, so it wasyeah, it was literally after I
quit yeah, three months and likea week or two.
So it was yeah, it wasliterally after I committed to a
lifetime of sobriety.
About a week or two later, Imet the woman that is now my
(40:43):
wife and so, yeah, we met on adating site and like she reached
out to me and like we just kindof started connecting and
because she said she saw some ofthose things that were
intentionally there to scarepeople away, and she was like,
oh, okay, that's.
That's actually reallyinteresting to me, because some
people, you know, try to playthe game and they put stuff on
there so that they can appeal tomultiple audiences.
(41:03):
Um, but I didn't.
I just kind of, you know, madeit very clear.
Well, my stances were oncertain things and that and
that's exactly how we connectedis this.
She's like wow, this, we, wefind these same things important
, um, and it's just that kind ofvalues based dating.
And for her, she, she neverreally got into drinking and so,
as, as we connected, you know,we kind of got further along in
(41:27):
it and like it was a big riskfor her, quite frankly, like to
be hanging out with this guythat was, you know, three months
, four months, five months sober, and it was journey Right with
this guy that was, you know,three months, four months, five
months sober in his journeyright and and start really
seriously dating.
Um, because that doesn't alwayswork out well for the person
that formerly was a drinker,right, they may go back to it,
they may, they may fall back in,uh, and so she took a lot of
(41:47):
risk in in, in pursuing datingwith me.
But what I think worked outreally really well was we.
We kind of came to a mutualconclusion that she was going to
stay sober as well and so forher, like she never really got
into it, like she'd had, likeyou know, maybe a couple of
glasses of champagne orsomething here or there, but
like you know, it had neverbecome a part of her life, just
her, her, her social lifegrowing up, was, was, was
(42:10):
different and so it just wasn'ta part of it, and so so for her
it wasn't that big a deal either.
I was like, oh, I'll just, yeah,I don't, I don't have to do
that.
And so she's been actuallyamazing for me on my journey as
as part of my support, because Iknow when she's going to hang
out with her friends or thegirls or whatever, right Like
(42:31):
she's not going to be kickingback a bunch of you know,
because I know she's not ifpeople are drinking wine, she's
just going to you know pass andshe'll have something else and
it's it's.
It is that partnership that wehave.
So I know, I know a bigchallenge that a lot of guys
have is probably going to bearound Like what if the woman
I'm interested in is a drinker?
Like what, what if she drinks?
(42:51):
And I would.
I would just encourage thosethat are on the journey not to
make any major life decisionsuntil you have a better idea of
where you're at, because for meI now have a value, a personal
value in my life where I'm not adrinker.
That is not a part of who I am.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
And.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I have excised that from me, right that drinker
portion.
And so if you're still in thatspot where you're juggling it,
where you're not sure if youdrink, or you're not sure if you
are going to drink again, oryou're not sure if you're going
to be sober forever, I wouldencourage you, like maybe don't
get engaged just yet, don't getmarried just yet, don't, maybe
don't even try to date seriouslyjust yet, because you haven't
(43:32):
fully settled into who you are,who you're meant to be.
And once you have that settled,things start to become very
clear.
You know what you're lookingfor and you know what's
acceptable or not.
Because for me, dating someoneand eventually marrying someone
that drank a lot, that wasn'tgoing to work for me.
And so you know, if my wife,who was my girlfriend at the
(43:55):
time, like if she, if she, was adrinker, like we probably would
have ended the relationshipafter a couple months uh,
because I would have seemed likethis isn't, this isn't quite
working the way I hoped yeah,yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Thank you so much for bringing it.
There's so much actually I wantto dive into with that, because
it is it's about when youremove the alcohol, you're able
to get really clear on who youare truly are, what you stand
for, like what your core valuesare.
And then what I'm hearing fromyou is, like you know it's being
really strong in that, like inthe non-negotiables, once you're
clear on them, like beingreally strong in the
(44:27):
non-negotiables, essentiallybeing completely your authentic
self by saying exactly what itis that you want and your truth
around that.
And then, yes, scaring off,like you say, the, the ones you
don't want away, um, but gettingto that point of knowing what
those are.
And then and this, this is,rings so true to me it's like
the non-negotiables areabsolutely crucial and sticking
(44:49):
to those.
And then it's alignment right,like it's complete alignment,
and I think that that and itsounds like you will have had a
similar experience with having,you know, a sober relationship,
and I'm not saying everyone hasto have one, but it is bloody
amazing when you have thatfoundation and no booze in there
and you know that.
You know all the stories with meand previous patterns with men
and all of that, and you know my, I truly believe that all those
(45:12):
kind of fear-based ego patternsthat I had, alcohol fueled all
of them.
So, taking that away and beingable to build something really
meaningful without any booze inthe mix, and this like amazing
foundation, and knowing thatnothing's ever going to come in
to, like you know, because,because we all still get
triggered, there's still thingsthat go on, but it's like we get
the space, we create that spaceand we're able to navigate
(45:34):
those situations withoutthrowing in booze, which is just
going to, you know, make a messat times.
So it's yeah, it's gorgeous, soI love all of it and it's yeah,
sticking to thosenon-negotiables and attracting
someone in that's truly alignedis so important.
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, and it was great because I knew and very
early on, know we even we evendid stuff differently where, in
the sense of like I just kind oftold her some of my history, it
was like, hey, like I wasreally into drinking, like I
made a lot of dumb choices in mylife, like I was all in all
this, here's my baggage, youknow what I mean.
Like we got clear on what eachof our baggage was in our
relationship within a month ortwo of starting to date and once
(46:15):
we addressed it, it was like,do we accept it or do we walk
away?
And it's like, if you're notwilling to let that bird fly
away by telling it the truth,like that bird's going to fly
away later at some point.
You know what I mean Becauseyou didn't tell the truth Right
and so, um, so just yeah, likelike you talked about just just
finding that authenticity, beingyourself, being confident in
(46:36):
yourself and being willing tobear the consequences of that.
And a lot of times, I think, interms of business, right, and
businesses have values, andvalues really only matter when
they cost you something right.
And in business that's, youknow, cool, you may lose a
customer because they kind ofare going against some of the
values you believe in and samefor yourself.
(46:56):
Like if you have these valuesthat you believe in, you may
need to let certainrelationships or people or
opportunities or other things gobecause they may not be right.
They may bring you out ofalignment and bring you in a
spot that is not going to behealthy for you.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And I think that's where that faith piece is
massive too right.
It's just trusting and knowingthat it's all happening exactly
as it's meant to, and if itdoesn't, it wasn't right and
that's a really great place, andthat's the surrender and like
letting go of control, isn't itEssentially?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Oh yeah, and like when you're in the middle of a
breakup, like telling a friendthat like they don't want to
hear it, but at the same time,like as you process it, you do
feel that truth right, like okay, yeah, you know what this, this
wasn't for me, like it's God orthe universe or wherever you
know.
There's another plan, there's,there's something else for me
and I'm just going to trust that.
I'm going to lean into that.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, yeah, lesson, or a blessing, as they say.
Thank you, andrew.
Well, that brings it brings, Ithink, to a beautiful close.
That was, yeah, great.
I'm so grateful that you askedme that question actually as
well.
That was awesome and it's beengorgeous having you on.
And for anyone that's thinkingof writing a book then, oh my
goodness, I cannot recommendandrew enough over at story
(48:11):
builders.
And, yeah, thank you you got it.
Thanks for having me on, didithank you for listening to
today's episode of the soberchapters podcast.
I hope you enjoyed it and gotlots of good information from it
.
I'm really keen to share thesemessages as far and wide as
possible, and I know howimportant it is to receive
(48:33):
reviews to do so, if you'refeeling called, I would love you
to leave a review from whateverimportant it is to receive
reviews to do so.
If you're feeling called, Iwould love you to leave a review
from whatever platform it isthat you're listening on, and if
you send me a screenshot ofthat review to
ddsoberchapterscom, I will putyou into the mix of winning a
free one-on-one coaching sessionwith me.
If you would like to learn moreabout Sober Chapters and to
(48:55):
follow along on instagram it'ssober underscore chapters you'll
find lots of differentresources on there and a free
guide, 69 tips, tricks andresources for anyone that is
embarking on a sober chapter.
If you'd like to learn moreabout my one-on-one coaching
group coaching programs andmasterminds, then please go to
(49:16):
wwwsoberchapterscom.
I'd also love to hear from youif you have any feedback or you
need any guidance or you haveanything at all you'd like to
reach out to me about, thenplease do email me at dd, at
sober chapterscom.
I would love to hear from youand support you in any way that
(49:38):
I can.
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