January 7, 2025 • 24 mins
What if the way you see God could completely transform the way you face life’s uncertainties? In this episode, we’re diving into two of God’s most incredible attributes—His holiness and sovereignty—and exploring how they shape our faith and daily lives.
Spoiler: Understanding these truths isn’t just “theological fluff.” It’s deeply practical and might just be the perspective shift you need as we step into 2025.
Here’s a sneak peek of what we’re unpacking:
- Why God’s holiness is both awe-inspiring and comforting (and how it changes how we see ourselves).
- The beautiful, life-altering truth of how Christ bridges the gap between God’s holiness and our sin.
- How to find peace knowing God is sovereign—even when life feels out of control.
- The tension between God’s sovereignty and human responsibility (and how to embrace it).
- Why reflecting on who God is can ignite real personal growth and spiritual renewal.
Join us for this short conversation that’s packed with practical insights, thought-provoking questions, and encouragement to deepen your relationship with God. Hit play now, and let’s start the year with a clearer view of the One who holds it all together!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Sojo Show with Jen and AJ, where
you'll dig deep into God's Wordalongside two imperfect,
frequently ineloquent women, aswe discover fresh ways to walk
out God's truth together.
Good morning, welcome to theSojo Show, the very first one of
2025.
My name is Jen.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And I'm AJ, and Happy New Year year happy new year.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're excited to be back with you, and we may sound
a little sleepy this morning yes, well, it may not be morning
when they're listening, but it'smorning when we're recording.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
so, and early morning , very early morning, I'm
stuffed away in my closetbecause everybody else in my
house is sleeping, and so it'slike jen gets like all the all
the scoop on what my closetlooks, and so it's like Jen gets
like all the all the scoop onwhat my closet looks like I'm
like I'm like pretty crazy.
I'm looking at it.
Yeah, it's messy and colorful.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
But you know what I understand?
It's really a good place torecord in your closet with all
the buffer and stuff.
So yeah.
Yeah, you're just beingprofessional.
There you go, there you go.
That's what we'll call it, ohmy goodness.
Well, we are excited to be backand together and we are doing a
series this month on knowingGod, all about the different
(01:20):
attributes of God as we'restarting 2025.
The different attributes of Godas we're starting 2025.
And I think this is a greatplace to kind of orient
ourselves as we're getting readyto hop into a new year?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, I think so too.
You know.
It reminds me of the quote by Ithink it was Tozer that said
the most important thing aboutyou is how you view God or what
you believe about God.
And so, and I've really thoughtabout that quote a lot over the
years and I realized that isabsolutely true, because our,
what we think God is affectseverything.
(01:53):
It affects how we see ourselves, it affects how we recover from
failure or sin in our lives.
It affects how we see justeverything that happens,
circumstances in life.
You know, we don't believe thatGod's working all things
together for good and that he'spresent and that he's there,
that he's wise, like all ofthose things.
It affects everything.
It affects the way we seeeverything and people.
(02:15):
You know it affects the way weare we going to love people?
Are we going to care?
Do we see like a bigger purposeto all of that?
And so I just think that thisis a great place to start at the
beginning of this new year andjust saying, okay, let's go back
to the basics somewhat and saylet's start with refining our
(02:37):
view of God.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And although we're not going tobe able to hit on all the
attributes, I think that it isreally good to remind ourselves
of who he is.
So we're going to start todaywith you know, a couple of the
things that we all say, that weknow and we do know, but when we
(03:00):
stop and really let ourselvesthink about them in context of
who we are in relationship toGod, as AJ is saying, it can
almost be a little overwhelming.
And we invite you, as we'retalking through these
characteristics, to reallyreflect and meditate on them,
and maybe even we'll give youthe challenge of going through
(03:26):
the Bible and finding differentreferences related to these
characteristics and meditate onthem throughout the week.
So I think that this is goingto be real important.
So the first one that we'retalking about is God's holiness.
So it's pretty.
We know God is holy.
That is something that we say alot, but what does that really
(03:49):
mean and what does that mean tous?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great question and
obviously, when we look at thecharacter of God, it does, like
I said before, it does haveimplications of how we live our
own lives.
I think God is okay with goodenough.
You know, like we, it affectsour decisions and on a
(04:17):
day-to-day basis.
But if we see him as holy andnot cannot tolerate sin in the
least, like there's no shadow ofturning that, that changes the
way we see ourselves and the way, maybe the way we make
decisions on a day-to-day basis.
You know, and so this is onethat we know in our head, what
(04:37):
holy means.
Like.
It means totally blameless, butit also means he's not like
anybody else.
You know, he's totally setapart, he's different and to me,
that has always helped meunderstand that.
I can't understand him, youknow, like.
(04:59):
His set apartness means thatI'm not going to understand why
he allows certain things, why hedoes certain things, why he
seems to be silent in certainsituations.
Like I'm not going to my mind,cannot comprehend His
set-apartness, and I have to beokay with that.
(05:20):
No, I have to be okay with that.
I have to be okay with Himbeing God and no one else
filling that role.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, and if you think about it and going on that
path, thinking about all ofthese characteristics, I mean if
we were able to understand God,if we were able to really wrap
our brains around it, then wouldhe really be worthy of our
total worship.
I mean, we are the created,he's the creator and we I mean
(05:50):
if we understood him then hewould not be the strong and
powerful and mighty and holy Godthat he is.
So I find comfort in that fact.
You know, sometimes it can be alittle discouraging to us
because we don't understand Hisways and we know His ways are
(06:11):
better than our ways and we findourselves discouraged in our
circumstances.
But I think we can look up fromthat and be so encouraged by
the fact that even though wedon't understand, we can trust
Him in His nature, in who he is.
(06:32):
And so there's a strangeencouragement in not being able
to wrap our brains around themightiness and the holiness of
God and thinking about holy andwhat that actually kind of means
and what you said.
He's not able to tolerate sin atall.
I mean this term holy means, Imean it's perfection.
(06:59):
We are sinful creatures andthis is the whole reason that we
have been.
If we're trusting in Christ,we've been rescued and redeemed
because of His holiness, becausehe is so holy, he had to find a
way for us to be able.
He had to reconcile us to Him.
(07:20):
The distance between Hisholiness and our lives is so
great.
The chasm is so great we couldnever have in anything that we
did or do.
We could never go through thatexpanse to get to Him, and
that's why we needed Christ.
That's why we needed Jesus.
That was the reason that he wassent, because we could not
(07:45):
tolerate his holiness on our own.
He could not tolerate our sin,and Christ did that for us.
And so, thinking through whoGod is also, we can think about
the goodness of the gospel ingeneral and how now we can stand
before a holy God.
One day we will be able tostand before a holy God because
(08:08):
of the righteousness of Christ,and he did that.
It's mind-boggling, really.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, yeah, it really is.
And I think too, the thingabout that is the
characteristics of God.
For the believer, they arethings that we can delight in,
even though they are challengingfor us to think about.
And challenging for us to evenlike the holiness of God is
something that's really I meanhonestly, it kind of brings a
(08:37):
little bit of terror to my heart, right, consider it, because
it's like whoa, like I fall soshort every day, like just in my
desires you know they'recompeting, and like my
affections wane, and it's likewhoa, I fall so short of this
one attribute of God.
(08:57):
But, like you said, for thebeliever, we have a rescue from
a holy God.
There's a, we have a rescuefrom a holy God.
That very God is the one who,who also is a God of love and
compassion and mercy and graceand forgiveness, like he's all
of those things.
And yet I do think thisattribute of holy is a good
(09:18):
place for us to start, becauseif we don't understand him as
holy, then we don't understandGod, the need, right, we don't
understand the need and we don'tunderstand the cost he paid to
bridge that gap.
And and I feel like in ourculture today, because I, you
know, I see it in my own heartwhere we just kind of, where I
(09:39):
just kind of become complacentwith certain things in my life
and say, oh well, everybody kindof has that attitude or
everybody's doing that, you know, and it's kind of like I don't
take things seriously anymore.
But I also, as a at at theculture at large, it's
definitely, you know, we makeour own rules and it's whatever
is okay for me is okay for me,so don't question that.
(10:02):
And we just have lost theunderstanding that God is holy
and he has a set of like he hasa definition of sin and he's the
only one who can make thatdefinition.
Like we cannot decide what asin is.
That only belongs to a holy God.
(10:23):
And even I see, even Christianslike I'll talk to Christians
sometimes who, who, just theydon't, they don't believe that
you know, they have fallen tothe lie that, oh well, it's okay
for them because of X, y, z,situation, or maybe they were
born that way, you know,forgetting that God is the
(10:43):
creator of every human life andhe is the person who decides, or
he's the entity that decideswhat is right and what is wrong.
Like we don't get to choosethat, and I think that ties into
his holiness as well Like thefact that he is without sin and
the fact that he is God, makeshim the only one able to define
(11:06):
what sin is.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I agree with you 100% and I think that sometimes we
fall into the ditch of His notditch, that's not the right way
to say it but we overemphasizeHis mercy and love to the
detriment of understanding Hisholiness.
I mean because, yes, he is fullof mercy and love, but it's
(11:32):
still within the bounds, as yousaid, of the righteousness of
Christ, and that is veryimportant to recognize that,
even though he is a God of mercyand a God of love, if we are
standing opposed to Him, if weare standing opposed to him, he
is also holy and he will nottolerate that.
He will not tolerate it.
(11:58):
It reminds me of as we weretalking.
I was thinking of the passage,just really quickly, in Exodus
33, when Moses wanted to see God.
He said show me your glory, inverse 18, 33, 18.
Moses said please show me yourglory.
And so 33, 18,.
Moses said show him, pleaseshow me your glory.
And so God said I will causeall my goodness to pass before
you and I will proclaim my namein your presence.
(12:18):
And then he said but you cannotsee my face, for no one can see
me and live.
And he, and so he put Moses inthe cleft of a rock.
There's a place where you canstand in the cleft of the rock
and and I will cover you with myhand until I pass by, and then
you can see my back, but youcannot see my face.
Anyway, the whole story isreally, is really fascinating to
me, because it to me, it justit almost gives me goosebumps to
(12:43):
think that we serve a God thatis so holy and glorious that if
we were to look upon his face,we could not withstand that.
We would literally die.
That's what he tells Moses.
You would literally die if yousee my face.
And that's the God that weserve.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean it's really unbelievablewhen you sit and you actually
think about it and you ponderwhat that means, like if those
things are really true, for Godto have done all that he's done
for us.
It's really amazing.
There's no word to describethat.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Right, well, and it helps us with the next
characteristic.
So we're going to briefly moveto the next characteristic and
this next.
Any of these we could talk onfor an hour.
The next one I could talk onfor days, but I think it's
really important that when we'rethinking about His holiness,
the next characteristic that wewanted to talk about is His
sovereignty.
Right, so we all, as Christians, know God is in control.
(13:51):
We say that all the time.
God is sovereign.
We know this in our head and inour hearts too.
We know it.
But again, I invite you toreally think about what that
means.
What that means, and becausefor a long time I did not have
(14:12):
I'll be honest, I did not have aright understanding of God's
sovereignty.
I just did not understand howall-encompassing that is to not
just my life, but the world andthe sin that's around us.
We talked about the confusion,everything.
(14:33):
In some mysterious way, it isall being orchestrated by our
holy God.
So our sovereign God is thenext kind of thought that we're
thinking about.
Briefly, what do you thinkabout that?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well, this is actually funny.
I wasn't sure we were going totalk about this one today, but
it really ties into somethingthat our pastor said yesterday.
So we're preaching through thebook of Romans.
I know that your husband haspreached through Romans and took
a couple years to do that,maybe multiple years.
Yeah three.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So our pastor, couple of years to do that Maybe,
maybe multiple years.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So our pastor is not going to take that long, but
yesterday he's.
He just talked about howchapters nine through 11 are one
theological unit, and so wewere looking at chapter nine.
But he said to reallyunderstand chapter nine you have
to go to the end of chapter 11.
And the end of chapter 11,there's a doxology, and it
(15:34):
basically says what we weretalking about earlier, where no
one can understand, like theways of God are inscrutable.
Who can, who can like,understand God's ways?
And so that's kind of wherePaul ended.
But where he started is inchapter nine, and it was with
saying you know, he's the potterand we're the clay, and the
(15:56):
clay can't say to the potterwhat are you doing?
And if the potter wants to makesome vessels for honor and some
for dishonor, like that's hisprerogative, he gets to choose
that.
And so we see in chapter ninethis whole like argument for
God's sovereignty, because he isthe creator.
And then in chapter 10, though,it says whoever calls on the
(16:17):
name of the Lord will be saved,and so you see this human
responsibility.
And so he's like okay, righthere in chapter nine, we have
sovereignty.
In chapter 10, we have God, wehave human responsibility.
And then the conclusion at theend of chapter 11 is we can't
understand these things you know.
(16:39):
And so I think it's like, when Ithink of God's sovereignty, I
think, yes, he is absolutely incontrol, but at the same time,
yes, we do have a response thatwe are to bring to him.
You know, whether that is inworship or whether that is in
obedience, or, you know, tuningour hearts to listen, or giving
(17:00):
him space to speak every daythrough his word, like we do
have a responsibility.
So there is his sovereignty,there is our responsibility, and
we're never going to quite, onthis side of heaven, understand
that, that tangle between thetwo of those things you know.
So I know that's a little offfrom what just pure, what God's
(17:22):
sovereignty means, but I thinkit.
It was interesting to mebecause it's.
It is again one of those thingsthat we're not, we don't always
understand.
Why does God allow somethingterrible to happen to people?
You know, like, was that hisfault or was it just somebody's
decision that God couldn'tcontrol?
You know, like, all of thesethings ask, we ask in our heads
(17:46):
when it comes to God'ssovereignty, and I think there's
a certain level that we just,we have to just trust him.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, because in some way I mean it.
It, that concept is so hard towrap our brains around because
even in those things, those badthings that happen, I mean God
is a holy God.
He is not culpable for sin.
God is not culpable for sin.
God is not culpable for sin.
He's not culpable for thosethings and yet somehow he is
(18:15):
sovereign over that.
And Romans 8, he is working allof those things together for
those of us who trust Him forour good and his glory.
That's the coffee mug verse,that we all know that if we
(18:36):
could grab that and we're notgoing to understand that but if
we can, like you said, trustthat, then it will help as we
struggle, as we encourage others, as we live in community with
others, as we go through our upsand downs, to recognize that
(19:00):
all of it is somehow beingworked together for our good,
even if it doesn't feel good.
And His glory and the ultimatekingdom.
I mean you either have tobelieve that God is sovereign
over all things, everything, orhe's sovereign over nothing.
(19:23):
We can't pick and choose.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Right, and I think, for our own selves, for our own
emotional, spiritual, mentalwell-being, we have to land
somewhere.
And we have to land somewhereis where scripture tells us to
land, and that is that he issovereign, he is in control, he
has the ability to move men'shearts, like the scripture tells
(19:52):
us that, and so we have totrust him.
You know, and that can be hard,it can be scary, it can be
challenging, but ultimately,like that's our safest place,
that's the arc.
You know where we are safe iswhen we say God, you are God,
and that means that you know,you understand and I'm trusting
(20:16):
in your goodness.
That's where I'm going to livemy life, and I, for one, like I,
have to choose to do that.
If I don't, I will be a basketcase, like, literally, I would
be a basket case.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I think we all would.
I think that's why sometimes weare, because we forget.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yes, yes Right.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Just like everything else, we forget these truths and
that's why we're here, that'swhy we're talking about it,
that's why we have to study it,that's why we're here, that's
(20:57):
why we're talking about it,that's why we have to study it,
that's why we have to stay inthe Word, because life bears him
with need, and knowing thathe's the only one that can truly
fill that need, he's the onlyone that can get us out of our
basket case state of mind.
(21:19):
And when we see that, it alsohelps us to look forward to a
dying world and see their basketcaseness, making up words here
and be able to say I have ananswer for this Right, I have an
answer for this.
I serve a God who is holy andsovereign and many more things
(21:40):
and can have the boldness tobring forth that answer to them.
I just I need that in this newyear.
I need to be reminded of whoGod is and I need to be reminded
of the purpose that it'sbecause of the gospel and the
(22:03):
fact that this world needs thegospel.
And if I'm just feeling goodabout who God is in my life,
it's not enough.
I have to then take thatforward and put feet on it and
move into this world and remindthem also and tell them who God
is and who he can be for them aswell.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a great reminder and agood place, I think, for us to
wrap up today.
As you said, there's so much wecould talk about each one of
these.
There's just so much we haven'teven really touched anything,
but just the reminder that weneed to trust in God's
sovereignty and, like you said,give that hope to others,
(22:49):
because this is the hope of theworld.
You know, it really and trulyis, so let's share it.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
We're digging a little deeper into these
characteristics in Sojo Academythis month.
If you're interested in doingthat with us there's a link
somewhere at sojoacademycom We'dlove to have you join us.
And if you're not joining us,or if you're listening to this
way late, go and look at thesecharacteristics for yourself in
the Word and reflect on them,meditate on them, and we are
(23:19):
excited to be discussing more ofthem throughout the month.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yes, we sure are, and we'd love to have you.
Bye, bye, everybody.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Thank you for listening to the Sojo Show.
We are so grateful that you didand we're so thankful for the
opportunity to spread the goodnews of the gospel in such a fun
and unique way.
If you enjoyed the show, we'dlove it if you would leave us a
rating or review wherever you'relistening to this podcast or
subscribe to the show.
Also, tell your friends.
(23:50):
That's the number one way weget people finding out about who
we are, and we reallyappreciate you sharing the Sojo
Show to the truth of God's word,sharing, laughing, glorifying
God in all that we do and,hopefully, encouraging women
from all over the world in thetruth of the gospel.
(24:12):
Talk to you, then.
Welcome to the Sojo Show with Jen and AJ, where
you'll dig deep into God's Wordalongside two imperfect,
frequently ineloquent women, aswe discover fresh ways to walk
out God's truth together.
Good morning, welcome to theSojo Show, the very first one of
2025.
My name is Jen.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And I'm AJ, and Happy New Year year happy new year.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're excited to be back with you, and we may sound
a little sleepy this morning yes, well, it may not be morning
when they're listening, but it'smorning when we're recording.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
so, and early morning , very early morning, I'm
stuffed away in my closetbecause everybody else in my
house is sleeping, and so it'slike jen gets like all the all
the scoop on what my closetlooks, and so it's like Jen gets
like all the all the scoop onwhat my closet looks like I'm
like I'm like pretty crazy.
I'm looking at it.
Yeah, it's messy and colorful.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
But you know what I understand?
It's really a good place torecord in your closet with all
the buffer and stuff.
So yeah.
Yeah, you're just beingprofessional.
There you go, there you go.
That's what we'll call it, ohmy goodness.
Well, we are excited to be backand together and we are doing a
series this month on knowingGod, all about the different
(01:20):
attributes of God as we'restarting 2025.
The different attributes of Godas we're starting 2025.
And I think this is a greatplace to kind of orient
ourselves as we're getting readyto hop into a new year?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, I think so too.
You know.
It reminds me of the quote by Ithink it was Tozer that said
the most important thing aboutyou is how you view God or what
you believe about God.
And so, and I've really thoughtabout that quote a lot over the
years and I realized that isabsolutely true, because our,
what we think God is affectseverything.
(01:53):
It affects how we see ourselves, it affects how we recover from
failure or sin in our lives.
It affects how we see justeverything that happens,
circumstances in life.
You know, we don't believe thatGod's working all things
together for good and that he'spresent and that he's there,
that he's wise, like all ofthose things.
It affects everything.
It affects the way we seeeverything and people.
(02:15):
You know it affects the way weare we going to love people?
Are we going to care?
Do we see like a bigger purposeto all of that?
And so I just think that thisis a great place to start at the
beginning of this new year andjust saying, okay, let's go back
to the basics somewhat and saylet's start with refining our
(02:37):
view of God.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And although we're not going tobe able to hit on all the
attributes, I think that it isreally good to remind ourselves
of who he is.
So we're going to start todaywith you know, a couple of the
things that we all say, that weknow and we do know, but when we
(03:00):
stop and really let ourselvesthink about them in context of
who we are in relationship toGod, as AJ is saying, it can
almost be a little overwhelming.
And we invite you, as we'retalking through these
characteristics, to reallyreflect and meditate on them,
and maybe even we'll give youthe challenge of going through
(03:26):
the Bible and finding differentreferences related to these
characteristics and meditate onthem throughout the week.
So I think that this is goingto be real important.
So the first one that we'retalking about is God's holiness.
So it's pretty.
We know God is holy.
That is something that we say alot, but what does that really
(03:49):
mean and what does that mean tous?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great question and
obviously, when we look at thecharacter of God, it does, like
I said before, it does haveimplications of how we live our
own lives.
I think God is okay with goodenough.
You know, like we, it affectsour decisions and on a
(04:17):
day-to-day basis.
But if we see him as holy andnot cannot tolerate sin in the
least, like there's no shadow ofturning that, that changes the
way we see ourselves and the way, maybe the way we make
decisions on a day-to-day basis.
You know, and so this is onethat we know in our head, what
(04:37):
holy means.
Like.
It means totally blameless, butit also means he's not like
anybody else.
You know, he's totally setapart, he's different and to me,
that has always helped meunderstand that.
I can't understand him, youknow, like.
(04:59):
His set apartness means thatI'm not going to understand why
he allows certain things, why hedoes certain things, why he
seems to be silent in certainsituations.
Like I'm not going to my mind,cannot comprehend His
set-apartness, and I have to beokay with that.
(05:20):
No, I have to be okay with that.
I have to be okay with Himbeing God and no one else
filling that role.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, and if you think about it and going on that
path, thinking about all ofthese characteristics, I mean if
we were able to understand God,if we were able to really wrap
our brains around it, then wouldhe really be worthy of our
total worship.
I mean, we are the created,he's the creator and we I mean
(05:50):
if we understood him then hewould not be the strong and
powerful and mighty and holy Godthat he is.
So I find comfort in that fact.
You know, sometimes it can be alittle discouraging to us
because we don't understand Hisways and we know His ways are
(06:11):
better than our ways and we findourselves discouraged in our
circumstances.
But I think we can look up fromthat and be so encouraged by
the fact that even though wedon't understand, we can trust
Him in His nature, in who he is.
(06:32):
And so there's a strangeencouragement in not being able
to wrap our brains around themightiness and the holiness of
God and thinking about holy andwhat that actually kind of means
and what you said.
He's not able to tolerate sin atall.
I mean this term holy means, Imean it's perfection.
(06:59):
We are sinful creatures andthis is the whole reason that we
have been.
If we're trusting in Christ,we've been rescued and redeemed
because of His holiness, becausehe is so holy, he had to find a
way for us to be able.
He had to reconcile us to Him.
(07:20):
The distance between Hisholiness and our lives is so
great.
The chasm is so great we couldnever have in anything that we
did or do.
We could never go through thatexpanse to get to Him, and
that's why we needed Christ.
That's why we needed Jesus.
That was the reason that he wassent, because we could not
(07:45):
tolerate his holiness on our own.
He could not tolerate our sin,and Christ did that for us.
And so, thinking through whoGod is also, we can think about
the goodness of the gospel ingeneral and how now we can stand
before a holy God.
One day we will be able tostand before a holy God because
(08:08):
of the righteousness of Christ,and he did that.
It's mind-boggling, really.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, yeah, it really is.
And I think too, the thingabout that is the
characteristics of God.
For the believer, they arethings that we can delight in,
even though they are challengingfor us to think about.
And challenging for us to evenlike the holiness of God is
something that's really I meanhonestly, it kind of brings a
(08:37):
little bit of terror to my heart, right, consider it, because
it's like whoa, like I fall soshort every day, like just in my
desires you know they'recompeting, and like my
affections wane, and it's likewhoa, I fall so short of this
one attribute of God.
(08:57):
But, like you said, for thebeliever, we have a rescue from
a holy God.
There's a, we have a rescuefrom a holy God.
That very God is the one who,who also is a God of love and
compassion and mercy and graceand forgiveness, like he's all
of those things.
And yet I do think thisattribute of holy is a good
(09:18):
place for us to start, becauseif we don't understand him as
holy, then we don't understandGod, the need, right, we don't
understand the need and we don'tunderstand the cost he paid to
bridge that gap.
And and I feel like in ourculture today, because I, you
know, I see it in my own heartwhere we just kind of, where I
(09:39):
just kind of become complacentwith certain things in my life
and say, oh well, everybody kindof has that attitude or
everybody's doing that, you know, and it's kind of like I don't
take things seriously anymore.
But I also, as a at at theculture at large, it's
definitely, you know, we makeour own rules and it's whatever
is okay for me is okay for me,so don't question that.
(10:02):
And we just have lost theunderstanding that God is holy
and he has a set of like he hasa definition of sin and he's the
only one who can make thatdefinition.
Like we cannot decide what asin is.
That only belongs to a holy God.
(10:23):
And even I see, even Christianslike I'll talk to Christians
sometimes who, who, just theydon't, they don't believe that
you know, they have fallen tothe lie that, oh well, it's okay
for them because of X, y, z,situation, or maybe they were
born that way, you know,forgetting that God is the
(10:43):
creator of every human life andhe is the person who decides, or
he's the entity that decideswhat is right and what is wrong.
Like we don't get to choosethat, and I think that ties into
his holiness as well Like thefact that he is without sin and
the fact that he is God, makeshim the only one able to define
(11:06):
what sin is.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I agree with you 100% and I think that sometimes we
fall into the ditch of His notditch, that's not the right way
to say it but we overemphasizeHis mercy and love to the
detriment of understanding Hisholiness.
I mean because, yes, he is fullof mercy and love, but it's
(11:32):
still within the bounds, as yousaid, of the righteousness of
Christ, and that is veryimportant to recognize that,
even though he is a God of mercyand a God of love, if we are
standing opposed to Him, if weare standing opposed to him, he
is also holy and he will nottolerate that.
He will not tolerate it.
(11:58):
It reminds me of as we weretalking.
I was thinking of the passage,just really quickly, in Exodus
33, when Moses wanted to see God.
He said show me your glory, inverse 18, 33, 18.
Moses said please show me yourglory.
And so 33, 18,.
Moses said show him, pleaseshow me your glory.
And so God said I will causeall my goodness to pass before
you and I will proclaim my namein your presence.
(12:18):
And then he said but you cannotsee my face, for no one can see
me and live.
And he, and so he put Moses inthe cleft of a rock.
There's a place where you canstand in the cleft of the rock
and and I will cover you with myhand until I pass by, and then
you can see my back, but youcannot see my face.
Anyway, the whole story isreally, is really fascinating to
me, because it to me, it justit almost gives me goosebumps to
(12:43):
think that we serve a God thatis so holy and glorious that if
we were to look upon his face,we could not withstand that.
We would literally die.
That's what he tells Moses.
You would literally die if yousee my face.
And that's the God that weserve.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean it's really unbelievablewhen you sit and you actually
think about it and you ponderwhat that means, like if those
things are really true, for Godto have done all that he's done
for us.
It's really amazing.
There's no word to describethat.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Right, well, and it helps us with the next
characteristic.
So we're going to briefly moveto the next characteristic and
this next.
Any of these we could talk onfor an hour.
The next one I could talk onfor days, but I think it's
really important that when we'rethinking about His holiness,
the next characteristic that wewanted to talk about is His
sovereignty.
Right, so we all, as Christians, know God is in control.
(13:51):
We say that all the time.
God is sovereign.
We know this in our head and inour hearts too.
We know it.
But again, I invite you toreally think about what that
means.
What that means, and becausefor a long time I did not have
(14:12):
I'll be honest, I did not have aright understanding of God's
sovereignty.
I just did not understand howall-encompassing that is to not
just my life, but the world andthe sin that's around us.
We talked about the confusion,everything.
(14:33):
In some mysterious way, it isall being orchestrated by our
holy God.
So our sovereign God is thenext kind of thought that we're
thinking about.
Briefly, what do you thinkabout that?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well, this is actually funny.
I wasn't sure we were going totalk about this one today, but
it really ties into somethingthat our pastor said yesterday.
So we're preaching through thebook of Romans.
I know that your husband haspreached through Romans and took
a couple years to do that,maybe multiple years.
Yeah three.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So our pastor, couple of years to do that Maybe,
maybe multiple years.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So our pastor is not going to take that long, but
yesterday he's.
He just talked about howchapters nine through 11 are one
theological unit, and so wewere looking at chapter nine.
But he said to reallyunderstand chapter nine you have
to go to the end of chapter 11.
And the end of chapter 11,there's a doxology, and it
(15:34):
basically says what we weretalking about earlier, where no
one can understand, like theways of God are inscrutable.
Who can, who can like,understand God's ways?
And so that's kind of wherePaul ended.
But where he started is inchapter nine, and it was with
saying you know, he's the potterand we're the clay, and the
(15:56):
clay can't say to the potterwhat are you doing?
And if the potter wants to makesome vessels for honor and some
for dishonor, like that's hisprerogative, he gets to choose
that.
And so we see in chapter ninethis whole like argument for
God's sovereignty, because he isthe creator.
And then in chapter 10, though,it says whoever calls on the
(16:17):
name of the Lord will be saved,and so you see this human
responsibility.
And so he's like okay, righthere in chapter nine, we have
sovereignty.
In chapter 10, we have God, wehave human responsibility.
And then the conclusion at theend of chapter 11 is we can't
understand these things you know.
(16:39):
And so I think it's like, when Ithink of God's sovereignty, I
think, yes, he is absolutely incontrol, but at the same time,
yes, we do have a response thatwe are to bring to him.
You know, whether that is inworship or whether that is in
obedience, or, you know, tuningour hearts to listen, or giving
(17:00):
him space to speak every daythrough his word, like we do
have a responsibility.
So there is his sovereignty,there is our responsibility, and
we're never going to quite, onthis side of heaven, understand
that, that tangle between thetwo of those things you know.
So I know that's a little offfrom what just pure, what God's
(17:22):
sovereignty means, but I thinkit.
It was interesting to mebecause it's.
It is again one of those thingsthat we're not, we don't always
understand.
Why does God allow somethingterrible to happen to people?
You know, like, was that hisfault or was it just somebody's
decision that God couldn'tcontrol?
You know, like, all of thesethings ask, we ask in our heads
(17:46):
when it comes to God'ssovereignty, and I think there's
a certain level that we just,we have to just trust him.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, because in some way I mean it.
It, that concept is so hard towrap our brains around because
even in those things, those badthings that happen, I mean God
is a holy God.
He is not culpable for sin.
God is not culpable for sin.
God is not culpable for sin.
He's not culpable for thosethings and yet somehow he is
(18:15):
sovereign over that.
And Romans 8, he is working allof those things together for
those of us who trust Him forour good and his glory.
That's the coffee mug verse,that we all know that if we
(18:36):
could grab that and we're notgoing to understand that but if
we can, like you said, trustthat, then it will help as we
struggle, as we encourage others, as we live in community with
others, as we go through our upsand downs, to recognize that
(19:00):
all of it is somehow beingworked together for our good,
even if it doesn't feel good.
And His glory and the ultimatekingdom.
I mean you either have tobelieve that God is sovereign
over all things, everything, orhe's sovereign over nothing.
(19:23):
We can't pick and choose.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Right, and I think, for our own selves, for our own
emotional, spiritual, mentalwell-being, we have to land
somewhere.
And we have to land somewhereis where scripture tells us to
land, and that is that he issovereign, he is in control, he
has the ability to move men'shearts, like the scripture tells
(19:52):
us that, and so we have totrust him.
You know, and that can be hard,it can be scary, it can be
challenging, but ultimately,like that's our safest place,
that's the arc.
You know where we are safe iswhen we say God, you are God,
and that means that you know,you understand and I'm trusting
(20:16):
in your goodness.
That's where I'm going to livemy life, and I, for one, like I,
have to choose to do that.
If I don't, I will be a basketcase, like, literally, I would
be a basket case.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I think we all would.
I think that's why sometimes weare, because we forget.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yes, yes Right.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Just like everything else, we forget these truths and
that's why we're here, that'swhy we're talking about it,
that's why we have to study it,that's why we're here, that's
(20:57):
why we're talking about it,that's why we have to study it,
that's why we have to stay inthe Word, because life bears him
with need, and knowing thathe's the only one that can truly
fill that need, he's the onlyone that can get us out of our
basket case state of mind.
(21:19):
And when we see that, it alsohelps us to look forward to a
dying world and see their basketcaseness, making up words here
and be able to say I have ananswer for this Right, I have an
answer for this.
I serve a God who is holy andsovereign and many more things
(21:40):
and can have the boldness tobring forth that answer to them.
I just I need that in this newyear.
I need to be reminded of whoGod is and I need to be reminded
of the purpose that it'sbecause of the gospel and the
(22:03):
fact that this world needs thegospel.
And if I'm just feeling goodabout who God is in my life,
it's not enough.
I have to then take thatforward and put feet on it and
move into this world and remindthem also and tell them who God
is and who he can be for them aswell.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a great reminder and agood place, I think, for us to
wrap up today.
As you said, there's so much wecould talk about each one of
these.
There's just so much we haven'teven really touched anything,
but just the reminder that weneed to trust in God's
sovereignty and, like you said,give that hope to others,
(22:49):
because this is the hope of theworld.
You know, it really and trulyis, so let's share it.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
We're digging a little deeper into these
characteristics in Sojo Academythis month.
If you're interested in doingthat with us there's a link
somewhere at sojoacademycom We'dlove to have you join us.
And if you're not joining us,or if you're listening to this
way late, go and look at thesecharacteristics for yourself in
the Word and reflect on them,meditate on them, and we are
(23:19):
excited to be discussing more ofthem throughout the month.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yes, we sure are, and we'd love to have you.
Bye, bye, everybody.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Thank you for listening to the Sojo Show.
We are so grateful that you didand we're so thankful for the
opportunity to spread the goodnews of the gospel in such a fun
and unique way.
If you enjoyed the show, we'dlove it if you would leave us a
rating or review wherever you'relistening to this podcast or
subscribe to the show.
Also, tell your friends.
(23:50):
That's the number one way weget people finding out about who
we are, and we reallyappreciate you sharing the Sojo
Show to the truth of God's word,sharing, laughing, glorifying
God in all that we do and,hopefully, encouraging women
from all over the world in thetruth of the gospel.
(24:12):
Talk to you, then.
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