August 15, 2023 • 35 mins
How do you balance opposites? Especially as a leader. A challenge comes up and it gets polarized. It becomes one of two things, 'push through', or ‘it’s not meant to be’. How do we find the ‘in-between’? Barbara Miller walks that path both personally and as a leader. She holds a fierce intention and shows up very gently, with curiosity and space. If we could bottle Barb, we would. We’ve done the next best thing, we’ve interviewed her.
“Just looking around, what does the community that I'm fortunate enough to live in need? And how can I help make that happen?” ~Barbara Miller
Stephanie and Maren talk to Barb about her background in education, the not-for-profit sector and working with leadership groups as well as the practices she uses for navigating tough leadership challenges (breathe 15:33), advice for current leaders (Eagle Eye 17:33) and her amazing new book for inspiring future fierce, loving leaders (Zig Zag Zeffy 23:56).
If you’ve ever wanted to take a step up in your ability to be a compassionate, impactful, soulful leader, you will want to listen to today’s episode.
“Working with children being around animals, I think they got it right.” ~Barbara Miller
- 02:35 Barb on being a Soulful Leader
- 11:24 Setting expectations
- 14:42 Addressing challenging leadership situations
- 21:01 Whose version of potential? How to hold space to empower instead of control
- 22:24 The Great Mystic, Zeffy
“Putting all of who I am, what I've lived, what is important to me together, I went right straight to a children's story.” ~Barbara Miller
LINKS
Zig Zag Zeffy Book Amazon USA, Amazon CA, Barnes & Noble
Meet Zeffy in Person Book Launch (Halifax Nova Scotia, CA) OC Publishing
Please share your insights and questions in one of our Soulful Leaders groups:
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Watch the podcasts on our YouTube Channel: @Soulful Leaders
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Allen (00:01):
Hi, welcome to the soulful leader project. And
we have a podcast today withBarbara Miller. And Barbara
literally is been an intentionalsoulful leader. And I love this
because she's like the quietunderground, but yet fiercely
stands for social justice andchildren and evolving the the
(00:23):
integration of diversity withinclusion. And she does it
through the most beautiful waythrough standing and practicing
herself with gentleness,curiosity, and self reflection.
And what happens when we makemistakes and how we show up
right with ourselves and witheach other.
Maren Oslac (00:45):
She's such a great role model for leaders for
people for - just being humanbeing fully human. She's such a
great role model.
Stephanie Allen (00:56):
And so one of the things I know about Barb is
that for over 30 years, I haveknown Barb, and we've worked
with each other, and we've beenfriends and different things.
And one of her lifelong goalswas to write a book and I think
goal, but she didn't make it agoal. She just knew that it
would happen when it was theright time. And I am celebrating
(01:16):
her because she has haspublished a children's book,
which I say for a child, butit's really for the child in all
of us because it's looking athow do we navigate a life when
it's challenging, you know, whatwe need to look within ourselves
to grow and change? And how canwe make peace with those parts
and evolve into a new way ofleadership that is transcendent,
(01:38):
and inclusive? So I'm just gonnalike jump right in here. But I
think we've got a great podcast.
Don't miss it. Here it is. And
Maren Oslac (01:48):
I'm so excited.
Yep. Can't wait to get to knowBarb with you all. In a world
where achievements and accoladesmotivate us to do more, and be
more, we're often leftwondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (02:04):
deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you.
Maren Oslac (02:13):
That's where we excel. We're your hosts,
Stephanie Allen, and MarenOslac.
Stephanie Allen (02:19):
And this is the soulful leader podcast.
Maren Oslac (02:22):
Sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Stephanie Allen (02:35):
I welcome to the soulful leader podcast. This
is Stephanie Allen, and I'm herewith Maren. And I have a
wonderful, we have a wonderfulguest here with us today that I
am super pumped aboutinterviewing, because Barb
Miller has been a longtimefriend and co worker colleague
with me from a past life ofworking life. And she is sharing
(03:00):
something that has been alongtime dream. And she's been
very much a role model for mefor leadership in the way of
working in, in areas that can,you know, are very challenging,
and yet has walked from myopinion, has walked a very, very
loving and grounded presence.
And just just so excited. So Iwanted to welcome Barb, here
(03:27):
with Marin and I are so happy tohave you here, Barb.
Barb Miller (03:32):
Thank you, Stephanie. And thank you, Maren.
So nice to be here with both ofyou.
Maren Oslac (03:37):
I can't wait to dig in because I do not know Barb.
And so as the audience gets toknow you, I will be getting to
know you as well. And I can'twait to dig in and hear more. I
know, just a smidge that yourbackground is in both child
(03:58):
education and in the nonprofitsector. Can you tell us a little
bit about that? And then I wouldlove to from there go into where
that's taking you next because Iknow that the that's changing a
little bit?
Barb Miller (04:13):
Well, I think if I start even a little bit before
my career, I'm the oldest childin the family of two younger
brothers. I have the oldestchild, grandchild on one side
and one of the oldest on theother side, huge extended family
and always around kids andalways with people my own age
(04:35):
younger older. My mom, my momsays she didn't bring me up. She
grew up with me. And so I'm usedto being around people who are
little older than I am too. AndI think I've always taken the
approach that there's a lot tolearn from whoever I'm with.
There's a lot of wisdom with ourelders and there's a lot of
(04:55):
brutal honesty and innocencewith children. That I think
somehow you unlearn. So? Yes,I've had a career. I was very
interested in being a teacher. Iwas an early childhood teacher
and I loved it. If it paid more,I think I would have done it for
my whole career because Iabsolutely loved it. And it
(05:15):
saddens me that it's not morevalued. The work that we do with
our young children, and teachersin the school setting, it's not
as highly valued as I think thatit should be. But yes, child
care was a big part of of mywork. I was a teacher. Storytime
was one of my favorite timeswith the children and working in
(05:37):
nonprofit, I always said you,you can look around and say,
Hey, that's a good idea, how dowe find some funding to do that?
And so I looked around in mycareer and said, Oh, childcare?
Well, let's look at summercamping programs. And let's look
at developing some immigrantsettlement services. And how
(05:58):
about some better employmentprograms? And so always just
looking around, what, what doesthe community that I'm fortunate
enough to live in need? And howcan I help make that happen? And
nonprofit, you go from sittingdown at Storytime with crayons
and glue to putting on a jacketand going into the boardroom?
(06:18):
Because you have to be able todo absolutely everything? And
I'm very diversified?
Stephanie Allen (06:23):
For sure. Yes, it is. And I would say, you
know, you're also veryintentional, like I so I'm going
to dive into that a little bit.
Because our our listeners, Iwant to understand why. Why you
were so intentional, especiallywith Ted, I know you'll love
them. But what what would beyour vision or your hope for
children. And I think that is areal key for your your courage
(06:45):
and your tenacity to actually goin to go from asking for help
and support and then steppinginto a boardroom and also being
with children. I think that'sgiven you that diversity, and to
bring that into that inclusion.
So yeah, if you could just tellus a little bit more about why
(07:05):
why is it so important ofchildren?
Barb Miller (07:07):
Well, as a child, myself, I was always interested
in why things were the way theywere, I was always very curious.
And that's one of my key words,one of my practices, now as an
adult is around curiosity. So asa child, I was curious, I was
very, very shy. But I was verystrong when it came to something
(07:29):
that I wanted to stand up for. Iremember, a teacher not treating
another child well, and juststanding up and saying that's
not okay. And actually refusingto go to school until the
teacher was sort of coachedaround what's appropriate and
not appropriate. Like,
Stephanie Allen (07:45):
you're a bit of a rebel. Right from a child.
Barb Miller (07:48):
I didn't, I didn't think about it as much as being
a rebel is saying, Hey, that'snot okay. Don't treat people
like that. And so intentional, Iam by nature very kind,
sometimes, too, too kind. AndI've been told that, however,
I'd rather be too kind than toogruff and rough around the
(08:08):
edges. But kindness is, youknow, curiosity and kindness are
a couple of my practices, Iguess, I would say, and, and
intending, like looking at everyday to say, Oh, my goodness, I'm
so grateful to wake up, first ofall, and then to have the day in
front of me, and know that it'sa combination of looking at
(08:30):
what's happening, and gettingthrough it, but also figuring
out how I'm going to movethrough the day and through my
life. So intentional. Stephanie,I think that I would say, I just
want to make sure that I ambringing my best to every
situation. And I don't always Igotta tell you sometimes I'm not
(08:50):
too happy with myself, but I tryI pick myself up and I tried
again. And and so what am Ibringing to the situation? And
how can I help others find thatpath to like, what are you
bringing into the situation? Andif you're not bringing something
that meets me halfway, is theresomething I can do to get us
there?
Stephanie Allen (09:10):
I think even what you said the kindness and
the curiosity to like when whenyou reevaluate the end of your
day and you go oh, I wasn'treally so great, or I couldn't
be better here. Think evenbringing that into your own
inner practice of the kindnessand curiosity is part of your
intentionality that I've seen inyou like your willingness to
look within yourself and go hmm,could I have been kinder could I
(09:31):
have been, that's the curiosity,right? But even with yourself of
like, okay, I'm gonna let thatgo or I'm gonna work with that.
And I think that's a real keyfor for leadership's I think we
can be extremely hard onyourself and expect perfection
and then that way, you know, inthat in that unfolding, then we
we set other people up to be wewant them to be perfect, and
(09:53):
that's not always the best wayof leadership. So
Barb Miller (09:55):
and I think being gentle, I do try to encourage
myself because I am a Virgo, I'ma perfectionist, we have that in
common Stephanie, I think I dowant to do things to the very
best of my ability. Andsometimes I set my standards
(10:15):
high. And that's great. Butsometimes I have to be a little
bit gentle with myself andremind myself that I'm one
person. And bringing the bestdoesn't mean that it has to be
perfect, but just keep, keepmoving forward. And, and I say
that to two different staffgroups that I've worked with
over over the years, as aleader, I've said that to my
(10:37):
kids, as a leader in my home, Isay that to my mom, as as
somebody walking with her, likewe, we just need to keep trying.
And, and it's okay to pickyourself up again. And if you're
in a state of conflict, take abreath, like, just breathe for a
moment. And, you know, startfrom there. And I've had staff
(10:58):
say, Oh, for God's sake, didBarb tell you that just breathe,
it drives me crazy. And they dosay that, but it's also you
know, curiosity and breathe, andkindness. Those are those sort
of pillars that I like to leaninto as a leader as a person.
And try to keep that in mind formyself, when I'm beating myself
(11:19):
up for not getting thingsperfect.
Stephanie Allen (11:22):
Love it.
Maren Oslac (11:24):
I love that as a, you know, of like the three
pillars of leadership from, froma different perspective, because
so often leadership is, youknow, we've inherited this world
of what leadership should be,and it is very gruff, and harsh,
and, you know, has highexpectations. And it's not that
(11:49):
what I hear you say is there arehigh expectations. And at the
same time, the bar is set soamazingly low, like one of the
things you said, is, I wake upin the morning, and I'm grateful
that I woke up. And imagine aworld will we all woke up, and
we're like, oh, I woke up, thisis exciting. And like, from that
(12:13):
place, we launched our lives andtalk about you can't get a much
lower bar than that, right, Iwoke up. And you know, and just
think, from that place, you canget curious, you can be kind,
you can lead from that place of,you know what, this is exciting.
(12:38):
Let's, let's see what we cancreate here. And so I just, I
absolutely love what you'resaying.
Barb Miller (12:43):
Thank you, Maren.
And I do, I do do that. I mean,sometimes if I know that,
there's going to be a difficultsituation in a day ahead, I find
it hard to go to sleep to wakeup in the first place, I can be
tossing and turning. And so I'mgrateful that I get a little bit
of sleep. And then and I, I'velearned and I guess that comes
with age, I have learned thatwhatever is happening, we will
(13:08):
get through it somehow. And sojust bring your best to it and
do the best that you can. Andthat in itself is something to
be grateful for. And I don't Idon't live in a world with rose
colored glasses. Like there'slots of difficult things, lots
of things that I've worked myway through or helped others
work their way through. And I'mgrateful that, you know, we have
(13:33):
each other to lean on often,whether it's colleagues or
family or friends. But we'rehere and and we are here. So
let's make the best of it.
Stephanie Allen (13:43):
I think that's a real key because I think, I
don't know, maybe we kind of getto two ends of the spectrum of
like, you know, it's really hardand difficult and challenging.
Or it's, oh, if it's meant to beit's going to be easy. It's all,
all this and it's not. It's,even when we talk about the
inclusiveness, it's being ableto include both of those, both
(14:04):
the challenges, and thecuriosity and the gentleness,
like to bring those two togetheris really what creates
transformation. And that's whatas as, you know, as a role model
for me, but that's what you havebeen. It's like you are, it's so
courageous and intentional tostep into a challenge, but not
from a place of fierceness inthe way of the outer fierceness.
(14:28):
I know there's an innerfierceness, just like that
little girl that stood up in herschool as a child saying, This
is not right. Like I know youhave that internal, but the way
you do it in the outer is veryto me, it's harmonious. It's,
you have this fierce intention.
But how you show up is verygentle on I guess I'm curious
too, is there something like youknow, what, what advice would
(14:50):
you have for someone who maybeis going through a challenging
time as a leadership role in mysay, leadership role? I'm not
just talking About in abusiness, but at home or with
oneself or any area where theywant to grow and be their best.
You know, when it's challengingwhen it's difficult, do you have
something that you practice orlike, like a process that you
(15:14):
do? Or, you know, even just liketaking time or in your garden?
Or is there something that yougo cuz you have such a lovely
dog? Is it something that youeven take your dog for a walk?
And what is how do you? How doyou do that? Like, what do you
do internally and externally, Iguess I'm asking
Barb Miller (15:33):
the breath, take a breath is a big thing. Take a
breath. But also, yes, walkingthe dog, I do a lot of thinking,
when I walk my dog, I don't wearheadphones. I'm not listening to
the news. I'm not listening tomusic, podcasts, I am walking in
nature with my dog, it's aboutme, it's about me walking. And
it's about us moving through thespace together, taking different
(15:57):
trails, taking differentdirections, but being there
together. And so I do find I doa lot of thinking, and do set
intentions sometimes. And Isometimes write things as an
author, I get great ideas whenI'm out walking, and I come home
and I and I take a pen and Itake my notebook. And I write
things down, you know, with penin hand. And that's important to
(16:20):
me, and then it goes on theshelf and and then I'll come
back to the computer and try toto flush that out a little bit.
But it does help me setintentions for moving through
the day moving through aconflict. And just being with
people who, you know, might notbe able to bring their best to a
(16:40):
situation. And understandingthat we can't let the worst
parts of our lives, or the worstthings we've ever done, define
us. Everybody messes up. We haveto be able to pick ourselves up
and move on. And we have to beable to support each other to do
that. And I remember that, youknow, and I, you said no,
(17:04):
there's not always a fierceness,I can be very fierce, you will
talk to people who would say,Oh, she is very fierce. And I
can be. And I am when when I,you know, really feel that
values are not being lived up toor people are not being honest
and truthful with themselves orwith me or whatever the
(17:26):
situation is we're trying tomove through together. So but I
try to remember, okay, one of mypractices is pick yourself up
and look at the situation from360 degrees from Eagle Eye, look
down. This is how this is whereI am. And this is how I'm
looking at this is where thisperson is this is where they're
(17:46):
looking at it. Is there anotherway can I bring something else
into this to help us movethrough it? So that's one of the
things I do professionally. I dothat with my family. I do that
with some of my friends. So thatwould be one of one of those
bits of advice that I could giveI guess 360 degree view.
(18:07):
Remember that our perspectiveisn't the only one.
Stephanie Allen (18:10):
I love that.
Maren Oslac (18:12):
That's great. Yeah.
It's a great practice. And youstarted, I love because it's
kind of bookend you started withtake a breath, and you ended
with 360 degrees. And those twothings alone can like transform
your world, both professionally,personally on all levels.
Barb Miller (18:30):
That's right. Well, one of my colleagues, once I was
talking to her on the phone, shejust had a really difficult
situation. And she wasbreathlessly telling me about it
while she was driving home. Andall of a sudden I heard this.
And I said what was that? Ithought she had a flat tire. Her
cell phone was on the roof ofher car. She had been so
flustered. She left a cell phoneon the roof of her car, and went
(18:51):
dat, dat, dat, dat. And she wasdriving down the highway and it
went flying and she's like, Ohmy god, oh my God. And I said, I
just said just take a breath.
And she said I wanted to killyou with that moment. She said I
just want it I just wanted myphone can you imagine losing
your phone anyway, she I saidjust pull off to the side of the
road stop. But don't get outinto traffic like just take a
breath and and then go home andshe wanted to go back and get it
(19:14):
and she did and it was quitecrushed. And it was not worth
saving. But she she just shesaid that. You saying breathe. I
wanted to kill you. That's notwhat I wanted at that moment.
She said later on I was gladthat I took a breath but you
know she, that's what we do. Wejust get ourselves flustered
that things go flying this wayand that literally and
(19:36):
figuratively. So breathing isimportant.
Stephanie Allen (19:41):
And I feel like you know when I'm saying the
fierceness It's fierce loveBarb, like you were able to see
the highest potential forsomeone and you can recognize
when they're seeing themselvesless than what their capability
is. And so it can feel likeexpect Sometimes, like when
we're in our lower self whenwe're in our complaining,
(20:03):
grumpy, whiner, I can't, youknow, the self pity self, that
it can feel outside ourselves.
When someone holds us toaccountability to a higher
level. It can feel a littleharsh like that woman see her
cell phone. When What do youmean? Just breathe? I just lost
like a, you know, a $1,100 cellphone, what are you talking
about? But at the same time,you're saying slow down, it's
not worth it, your life is notworth your life is worth so much
(20:26):
more than a cell phone. And it'sjust a cell phone. It's just,
you know, it's just a materialitem. It's not your soul. You
haven't lost your soul.
Barb Miller (20:37):
And we're dealing sorry.
Stephanie Allen (20:40):
Yeah, no, I was just saying that's what I what I
love about you is that, youknow, when your fierce, it comes
from fierce love, not from acontrol or manipulation or I'm
right, you're wrong kind ofthing. It's from a place of
like, are you able to see yourbest version of yourself right
now because I, you're able tohold that for, for yourself, for
(21:00):
others. And to me, that's athat's a great gift.
Barb Miller (21:04):
Thank you. And I think I've had to caution myself
with that gift, time after time,to to not have an image of what
I think somebody should be andhold that in rather than hold
space for them to figure it out.
So I've had to watch that a fewtimes. Because what I think is
someone's potential may not atall be what they what they are
striving for, or trying touncover in themselves. So
Maren Oslac (21:29):
that's the key.
Yeah, it is that's so, soimportant for leaders for
leaders of every walk of life,whether you're a parent, or
maybe especially as a parent, orin business, or you know, just
with friends or whatever. Youknow, it's like we do see the
potential in people and it can'tbe our version of their
(21:50):
potential, that we need to holdthe space for them to discover
their potential for them to stepinto it, whatever it is for
them. And I know I've, Stephanieand I have talked about this in
the past, I've struggled withit, she's struggled with it of
like, pull back my version of itto make even more space for
(22:11):
their version and then and stillhold that potential for them.
It's that to me is a reallypowerful leader.
Stephanie Allen (22:24):
So I see a great mystic behind you. And for
those who are listening, you'renot going to be able to see what
is over Barb's head or to herover her shoulder but there is
his adorable furry friend who Iwould call a mystic of being
because he's just lovely. And Iwould like to introduce the
audience to him because I thinkhe's been very much a guide for
(22:47):
you. Like he said, that's whoyou take out. Or he takes you
for a walk. I don't know whotakes who. But he's been a real
guide for you, hasn't he?
Barb Miller (22:56):
He has. His name is Zeffy. He's a Puggle and a
Puggles mix of pug and Beaglethat have called one parent was
pug Beagle. And one was pugBoston. So he we call them pug
on stilts, he's got long legs,so he loves those walks. And
(23:16):
I've had people say when we'reout Stephanie, who's walking who
because I let him have full leadand you know, zig and zag all
over the road and not the road,the trails. But yes, he's the
He's a wonderful little part ofmy days. And I take him to work
with me. He's 12 Now, so he's,you know, he's becoming a senior
(23:39):
dog. He's pretty quiet. He'slaying on the floor beside me
right now snoring and hisbellies growling a little bit,
but he's, he's here with mealmost all the time. And I've
written a little book that'swhere Stephanie's going with
this. The book is called Zig ZagZeffy, and it's a story I've
(23:59):
written for children and it'sabout a puppy being part of a
litter and a human me comingalong and saying I love this pup
and bringing him home with meand there's some adjustments to
make both for him and for me. Hemakes some mistakes and we get
some training for him and for meand we have a great way that we
(24:26):
move through life together. Sothat's that's the story in a
nutshell, but it's a children'sstory and my my hope is that
children will love it. It's arhyming story. So children there
has a cadence that children Ithink can pick up and and enjoy.
It has teachable moments forthose who work with young
(24:46):
children or who are parentingyoung children. Talks about a
time when you might be sad orscared and if you make a
mistake, how do you pickyourself up and move on so I'm
and it's being it's beingreleased in August, August 15,
is is the day. So hopefully,people will find it and enjoy
(25:07):
it. And we'll move on fromthere.
Stephanie Allen (25:12):
What I love, go ahead
Maren Oslac (25:16):
my question is, can you share with us how, like your
diverse background of, you know,I know you have a degree with in
in child development and thatyou've worked in the nonprofit
sector and you've worked withleadership groups and like all
(25:37):
of this has likely I'm I'mguessing that it all came
together somehow in this book.
And I would love to know whatthat looks like for you. And,
you know, if you could speak tothat,
Barb Miller (25:55):
well, I, when you said earlier, I started with
breathing, and I ended with 360degrees. I started as a child, I
started my career working withchildren, I work with, with
youth and families still, and Ijust think children and animals
(26:15):
got it all figured out. There'sthat innocence and that way of
living. You know, dogs haveunconditional love, and that the
tail wagging and the littlePuppy kisses. They're just these
loving little creatures,children, you know, there's so
much joy if a child is is sohappy, you know, and if they're
(26:38):
sad, boy, we know it is. Soworking with children being
around animals, I think they gotit right. I've always always
written, I've always writtenlittle stories from the time I
was a child, got a couple ofnovels in the works, we'll see
if those can come out at somepoint. But putting all of of who
(26:58):
I am, what I've lived, what Iwhat is important to me
together, I went right straightto a children's story. And I've
heard I mean, I see things andmaybe it's only because I've
written a children's story. ButI hear and see lots of things
about, do you want to be achildren's story author, like
it's a big thing. And that wasthat wasn't it with me, I just
(27:19):
naturally came to that. Andtried to put into rhyming words,
which wasn't, which wasn't easy,but it also at the same time
flowed out me a little bitabout, you know, feelings and
purpose and happiness andsadness and working together.
(27:40):
And so all the things that havesort of in themes through my
life and my career came out inthis children's story.
Stephanie Allen (27:47):
I think there's a belief system, that children's
stories are just for children,and I love that, you know, the
parent or the adult can read thestory to a child, and there's a
message there for the adult too.
And I always say there's a childin all of us, and sometimes we
quickly get out of our childhoodand think we have to grow up and
do something and be somethinginstead of really nourishing the
(28:10):
child along the way. And andchildren, like you said,
children and animals have suchan honesty, they have such a
rich connection to to theirsouls, to spirit, and they can
tell when people are beingauthentic or not. And the
curiosity and the kindness andthe wonder that they have I
(28:31):
think there's so much thattruly, like when I say over your
head, I said that you have amystic over your head, and that
that would be Zeffy. You know,because Zeffy it's like,
sometimes you think, you know,did, did you go out and get the
dog and you're going to trainthe dog? when really the dog
actually trained you when you'retraining each other. Right? And
it's a it's a it's a cocreation, rather than a power
over each other. And I think wetake that into leadership too.
(28:56):
We think, oh, we have to havepower over something or someone
instead of making it acollaborative cooperative
experience that we are bothgrowing and learning and how we
deal with ourselves when we messup. And can we bring in your
qualities of curious andgentleness and kindness and
starting from a new place again,breathing and resetting. So I
(29:17):
think for those of you out therethat are listening, and you're
thinking oh, well, that's achildren's story. I read it
myself. I already got a goodpreview of a book ahead of time
and it is lovely and take itdeeper because there's something
for all of us in everychildren's book, especially the
one that you're doing with zigzag Zeffy
Barb Miller (29:41):
and I'm working on zig zag Zeffy and friends,
number two.
Stephanie Allen (29:45):
Okay!
Barb Miller (29:46):
coming soon and I do you know, when I started
talking, when you first asked meto go deeper in there and and I
said that being that being has apuzzle, you know, Zeffy's a mix
but Zeffy is Zeffy. And hebrings all of who he is to
everything. And inclusivenessand diversity is so important to
(30:09):
me. And and I want to writesomething about all the
different kinds of dogs thatZephie is friends with and how
they, how they make their waythrough life. And yes, those are
deeper messages and forchildren, but they're for all of
us. Yeah.
Maren Oslac (30:26):
Yeah, we learn so much from nature. It's amazing.
Would you, would you let us knowhow if there are people in the
audience that are interested inordering the book or finding it,
I know it's a pre order rightnow. And then the podcasts will
come out. And eventually it willjust be an order. So where can
they find the book, both inCanada and the United States,
Barb Miller (30:49):
you can get it on Amazon, us, Amazon, Canada,
Amazon UK, good reads, you canget at Barnes and Noble in in
the US. And so and you can alsoget it through your local
bookstores, they should be ableto find it in order for you as
well. And so I do hope thatpeople enjoy it. I've had one of
(31:14):
the early reviewers shared itwith a three year old who's now
reciting it, she sent me alittle video of the three year
old and I I'm very kind soul, asI said, and I used to cry really
easy, but I don't anymore. Butthat made me cry this little
three year old, talking aboutsame sex and the human human mom
picking him up. And it waslovely. So I know, I know that
(31:39):
I've impacted one childpositively. So that's pretty
special.
Maren Oslac (31:45):
And their parent,
Barb Miller (31:46):
And their parents and their friends.
Maren Oslac (31:51):
Just as a quick reminder to our listeners, don't
worry about like trying to writethat down or anything. We'll
have all of it in the shownotes. So just go to our show
notes. And there will be linksto the book on all the different
platforms that that I can figureout to list.
Stephanie Allen (32:09):
And if you are in the Halifax, Nova Scotia
area, and are available, you arehaving a live meet Zeffy in
person book launch too, is thatcorrect?
Barb Miller (32:19):
That's right. And that's on August 28, Sunday
afternoon from three to 430. Andpeople are welcome to pop by and
say hi to me and meet Zeffy.
He'll be there with him his bestbehavior. I'm sure that little
shenanigans may happen. Butthat's okay, too.
Maren Oslac (32:39):
I know I'm jealous.
I'm, I'll be in the Chicago areathen. So I won't be able to be
there. I'll be there in spirit,though. Right.
Stephanie Allen (32:48):
Thank you.
Well, thank you so much for thishas been so delightful. And I'm
just so excited for you. I knowthis has been a long time dream
of yours is to be an author andknown as an author and to get
your wisdom and your heart andsoul out there to make a
difference in, like I said,intentional leadership in
changing the lives and bringingus together. So I am so
(33:10):
celebrating you right now, andyou're inspiring me once again.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Barb Miller (33:18):
Yeah, thank you for this opportunity to talk with
you about my thoughts onleadership and about Zeffy and
to share with the two of you.
And hopefully listeners will beable to, to nod or say, Oh, I
didn't think of it that way. Ireally hope that this podcast, I
think I've listened to a fewother ones. And you guys are
(33:40):
just amazing in your thoughtprocesses and bringing different
perspectives. So I was veryexcited to be asked to be with
you. And thank you so much forthat opportunity.
Maren Oslac (33:52):
Well, I'm just excited. As I said earlier, I
have gotten to know you a bitover the podcast, I didn't know
you beforehand. And I love thedevelopment of, you know, all of
your professionalaccomplishments which are wide
and varied and absolutelyamazing. And to take all of that
(34:12):
and still follow that dream likeyou know, like Stephanie was
mentioning that, that fierce inpassion that comes from from
love. And to continue of like,How can I keep serving and
that's I think the theme that Isee in your life is that there's
been this how do I serve? How doI serve my community and it's
(34:33):
once again happening with thisbeautiful book and I can't wait
for Zeffy and his friends andany of those novels that might
show up for us. So thank you somuch for joining us today.
Barb Miller (34:46):
Thanks again to both of you.
Maren Oslac (34:47):
So remember, you can find us on YouTube, on
Facebook and on LinkedIn underthe soulful leaders. You can
also find us on our website, thesoulful leader podcast.com, we
will see you all next week onthe soulful leader podcast
Stephanie Allen (35:13):
and that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (35:19):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website at thesoulful leader podcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (35:29):
Until next time
Hi, welcome to the soulful leader project. And
we have a podcast today withBarbara Miller. And Barbara
literally is been an intentionalsoulful leader. And I love this
because she's like the quietunderground, but yet fiercely
stands for social justice andchildren and evolving the the
(00:23):
integration of diversity withinclusion. And she does it
through the most beautiful waythrough standing and practicing
herself with gentleness,curiosity, and self reflection.
And what happens when we makemistakes and how we show up
right with ourselves and witheach other.
Maren Oslac (00:45):
She's such a great role model for leaders for
people for - just being humanbeing fully human. She's such a
great role model.
Stephanie Allen (00:56):
And so one of the things I know about Barb is
that for over 30 years, I haveknown Barb, and we've worked
with each other, and we've beenfriends and different things.
And one of her lifelong goalswas to write a book and I think
goal, but she didn't make it agoal. She just knew that it
would happen when it was theright time. And I am celebrating
(01:16):
her because she has haspublished a children's book,
which I say for a child, butit's really for the child in all
of us because it's looking athow do we navigate a life when
it's challenging, you know, whatwe need to look within ourselves
to grow and change? And how canwe make peace with those parts
and evolve into a new way ofleadership that is transcendent,
(01:38):
and inclusive? So I'm just gonnalike jump right in here. But I
think we've got a great podcast.
Don't miss it. Here it is. And
Maren Oslac (01:48):
I'm so excited.
Yep. Can't wait to get to knowBarb with you all. In a world
where achievements and accoladesmotivate us to do more, and be
more, we're often leftwondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (02:04):
deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you.
Maren Oslac (02:13):
That's where we excel. We're your hosts,
Stephanie Allen, and MarenOslac.
Stephanie Allen (02:19):
And this is the soulful leader podcast.
Maren Oslac (02:22):
Sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Stephanie Allen (02:35):
I welcome to the soulful leader podcast. This
is Stephanie Allen, and I'm herewith Maren. And I have a
wonderful, we have a wonderfulguest here with us today that I
am super pumped aboutinterviewing, because Barb
Miller has been a longtimefriend and co worker colleague
with me from a past life ofworking life. And she is sharing
(03:00):
something that has been alongtime dream. And she's been
very much a role model for mefor leadership in the way of
working in, in areas that can,you know, are very challenging,
and yet has walked from myopinion, has walked a very, very
loving and grounded presence.
And just just so excited. So Iwanted to welcome Barb, here
(03:27):
with Marin and I are so happy tohave you here, Barb.
Barb Miller (03:32):
Thank you, Stephanie. And thank you, Maren.
So nice to be here with both ofyou.
Maren Oslac (03:37):
I can't wait to dig in because I do not know Barb.
And so as the audience gets toknow you, I will be getting to
know you as well. And I can'twait to dig in and hear more. I
know, just a smidge that yourbackground is in both child
(03:58):
education and in the nonprofitsector. Can you tell us a little
bit about that? And then I wouldlove to from there go into where
that's taking you next because Iknow that the that's changing a
little bit?
Barb Miller (04:13):
Well, I think if I start even a little bit before
my career, I'm the oldest childin the family of two younger
brothers. I have the oldestchild, grandchild on one side
and one of the oldest on theother side, huge extended family
and always around kids andalways with people my own age
(04:35):
younger older. My mom, my momsays she didn't bring me up. She
grew up with me. And so I'm usedto being around people who are
little older than I am too. AndI think I've always taken the
approach that there's a lot tolearn from whoever I'm with.
There's a lot of wisdom with ourelders and there's a lot of
(04:55):
brutal honesty and innocencewith children. That I think
somehow you unlearn. So? Yes,I've had a career. I was very
interested in being a teacher. Iwas an early childhood teacher
and I loved it. If it paid more,I think I would have done it for
my whole career because Iabsolutely loved it. And it
(05:15):
saddens me that it's not morevalued. The work that we do with
our young children, and teachersin the school setting, it's not
as highly valued as I think thatit should be. But yes, child
care was a big part of of mywork. I was a teacher. Storytime
was one of my favorite timeswith the children and working in
(05:37):
nonprofit, I always said you,you can look around and say,
Hey, that's a good idea, how dowe find some funding to do that?
And so I looked around in mycareer and said, Oh, childcare?
Well, let's look at summercamping programs. And let's look
at developing some immigrantsettlement services. And how
(05:58):
about some better employmentprograms? And so always just
looking around, what, what doesthe community that I'm fortunate
enough to live in need? And howcan I help make that happen? And
nonprofit, you go from sittingdown at Storytime with crayons
and glue to putting on a jacketand going into the boardroom?
(06:18):
Because you have to be able todo absolutely everything? And
I'm very diversified?
Stephanie Allen (06:23):
For sure. Yes, it is. And I would say, you
know, you're also veryintentional, like I so I'm going
to dive into that a little bit.
Because our our listeners, Iwant to understand why. Why you
were so intentional, especiallywith Ted, I know you'll love
them. But what what would beyour vision or your hope for
children. And I think that is areal key for your your courage
(06:45):
and your tenacity to actually goin to go from asking for help
and support and then steppinginto a boardroom and also being
with children. I think that'sgiven you that diversity, and to
bring that into that inclusion.
So yeah, if you could just tellus a little bit more about why
(07:05):
why is it so important ofchildren?
Barb Miller (07:07):
Well, as a child, myself, I was always interested
in why things were the way theywere, I was always very curious.
And that's one of my key words,one of my practices, now as an
adult is around curiosity. So asa child, I was curious, I was
very, very shy. But I was verystrong when it came to something
(07:29):
that I wanted to stand up for. Iremember, a teacher not treating
another child well, and juststanding up and saying that's
not okay. And actually refusingto go to school until the
teacher was sort of coachedaround what's appropriate and
not appropriate. Like,
Stephanie Allen (07:45):
you're a bit of a rebel. Right from a child.
Barb Miller (07:48):
I didn't, I didn't think about it as much as being
a rebel is saying, Hey, that'snot okay. Don't treat people
like that. And so intentional, Iam by nature very kind,
sometimes, too, too kind. AndI've been told that, however,
I'd rather be too kind than toogruff and rough around the
(08:08):
edges. But kindness is, youknow, curiosity and kindness are
a couple of my practices, Iguess, I would say, and, and
intending, like looking at everyday to say, Oh, my goodness, I'm
so grateful to wake up, first ofall, and then to have the day in
front of me, and know that it'sa combination of looking at
(08:30):
what's happening, and gettingthrough it, but also figuring
out how I'm going to movethrough the day and through my
life. So intentional. Stephanie,I think that I would say, I just
want to make sure that I ambringing my best to every
situation. And I don't always Igotta tell you sometimes I'm not
(08:50):
too happy with myself, but I tryI pick myself up and I tried
again. And and so what am Ibringing to the situation? And
how can I help others find thatpath to like, what are you
bringing into the situation? Andif you're not bringing something
that meets me halfway, is theresomething I can do to get us
there?
Stephanie Allen (09:10):
I think even what you said the kindness and
the curiosity to like when whenyou reevaluate the end of your
day and you go oh, I wasn'treally so great, or I couldn't
be better here. Think evenbringing that into your own
inner practice of the kindnessand curiosity is part of your
intentionality that I've seen inyou like your willingness to
look within yourself and go hmm,could I have been kinder could I
(09:31):
have been, that's the curiosity,right? But even with yourself of
like, okay, I'm gonna let thatgo or I'm gonna work with that.
And I think that's a real keyfor for leadership's I think we
can be extremely hard onyourself and expect perfection
and then that way, you know, inthat in that unfolding, then we
we set other people up to be wewant them to be perfect, and
(09:53):
that's not always the best wayof leadership. So
Barb Miller (09:55):
and I think being gentle, I do try to encourage
myself because I am a Virgo, I'ma perfectionist, we have that in
common Stephanie, I think I dowant to do things to the very
best of my ability. Andsometimes I set my standards
(10:15):
high. And that's great. Butsometimes I have to be a little
bit gentle with myself andremind myself that I'm one
person. And bringing the bestdoesn't mean that it has to be
perfect, but just keep, keepmoving forward. And, and I say
that to two different staffgroups that I've worked with
over over the years, as aleader, I've said that to my
(10:37):
kids, as a leader in my home, Isay that to my mom, as as
somebody walking with her, likewe, we just need to keep trying.
And, and it's okay to pickyourself up again. And if you're
in a state of conflict, take abreath, like, just breathe for a
moment. And, you know, startfrom there. And I've had staff
(10:58):
say, Oh, for God's sake, didBarb tell you that just breathe,
it drives me crazy. And they dosay that, but it's also you
know, curiosity and breathe, andkindness. Those are those sort
of pillars that I like to leaninto as a leader as a person.
And try to keep that in mind formyself, when I'm beating myself
(11:19):
up for not getting thingsperfect.
Stephanie Allen (11:22):
Love it.
Maren Oslac (11:24):
I love that as a, you know, of like the three
pillars of leadership from, froma different perspective, because
so often leadership is, youknow, we've inherited this world
of what leadership should be,and it is very gruff, and harsh,
and, you know, has highexpectations. And it's not that
(11:49):
what I hear you say is there arehigh expectations. And at the
same time, the bar is set soamazingly low, like one of the
things you said, is, I wake upin the morning, and I'm grateful
that I woke up. And imagine aworld will we all woke up, and
we're like, oh, I woke up, thisis exciting. And like, from that
(12:13):
place, we launched our lives andtalk about you can't get a much
lower bar than that, right, Iwoke up. And you know, and just
think, from that place, you canget curious, you can be kind,
you can lead from that place of,you know what, this is exciting.
(12:38):
Let's, let's see what we cancreate here. And so I just, I
absolutely love what you'resaying.
Barb Miller (12:43):
Thank you, Maren.
And I do, I do do that. I mean,sometimes if I know that,
there's going to be a difficultsituation in a day ahead, I find
it hard to go to sleep to wakeup in the first place, I can be
tossing and turning. And so I'mgrateful that I get a little bit
of sleep. And then and I, I'velearned and I guess that comes
with age, I have learned thatwhatever is happening, we will
(13:08):
get through it somehow. And sojust bring your best to it and
do the best that you can. Andthat in itself is something to
be grateful for. And I don't Idon't live in a world with rose
colored glasses. Like there'slots of difficult things, lots
of things that I've worked myway through or helped others
work their way through. And I'mgrateful that, you know, we have
(13:33):
each other to lean on often,whether it's colleagues or
family or friends. But we'rehere and and we are here. So
let's make the best of it.
Stephanie Allen (13:43):
I think that's a real key because I think, I
don't know, maybe we kind of getto two ends of the spectrum of
like, you know, it's really hardand difficult and challenging.
Or it's, oh, if it's meant to beit's going to be easy. It's all,
all this and it's not. It's,even when we talk about the
inclusiveness, it's being ableto include both of those, both
(14:04):
the challenges, and thecuriosity and the gentleness,
like to bring those two togetheris really what creates
transformation. And that's whatas as, you know, as a role model
for me, but that's what you havebeen. It's like you are, it's so
courageous and intentional tostep into a challenge, but not
from a place of fierceness inthe way of the outer fierceness.
(14:28):
I know there's an innerfierceness, just like that
little girl that stood up in herschool as a child saying, This
is not right. Like I know youhave that internal, but the way
you do it in the outer is veryto me, it's harmonious. It's,
you have this fierce intention.
But how you show up is verygentle on I guess I'm curious
too, is there something like youknow, what, what advice would
(14:50):
you have for someone who maybeis going through a challenging
time as a leadership role in mysay, leadership role? I'm not
just talking About in abusiness, but at home or with
oneself or any area where theywant to grow and be their best.
You know, when it's challengingwhen it's difficult, do you have
something that you practice orlike, like a process that you
(15:14):
do? Or, you know, even just liketaking time or in your garden?
Or is there something that yougo cuz you have such a lovely
dog? Is it something that youeven take your dog for a walk?
And what is how do you? How doyou do that? Like, what do you
do internally and externally, Iguess I'm asking
Barb Miller (15:33):
the breath, take a breath is a big thing. Take a
breath. But also, yes, walkingthe dog, I do a lot of thinking,
when I walk my dog, I don't wearheadphones. I'm not listening to
the news. I'm not listening tomusic, podcasts, I am walking in
nature with my dog, it's aboutme, it's about me walking. And
it's about us moving through thespace together, taking different
(15:57):
trails, taking differentdirections, but being there
together. And so I do find I doa lot of thinking, and do set
intentions sometimes. And Isometimes write things as an
author, I get great ideas whenI'm out walking, and I come home
and I and I take a pen and Itake my notebook. And I write
things down, you know, with penin hand. And that's important to
(16:20):
me, and then it goes on theshelf and and then I'll come
back to the computer and try toto flush that out a little bit.
But it does help me setintentions for moving through
the day moving through aconflict. And just being with
people who, you know, might notbe able to bring their best to a
(16:40):
situation. And understandingthat we can't let the worst
parts of our lives, or the worstthings we've ever done, define
us. Everybody messes up. We haveto be able to pick ourselves up
and move on. And we have to beable to support each other to do
that. And I remember that, youknow, and I, you said no,
(17:04):
there's not always a fierceness,I can be very fierce, you will
talk to people who would say,Oh, she is very fierce. And I
can be. And I am when when I,you know, really feel that
values are not being lived up toor people are not being honest
and truthful with themselves orwith me or whatever the
(17:26):
situation is we're trying tomove through together. So but I
try to remember, okay, one of mypractices is pick yourself up
and look at the situation from360 degrees from Eagle Eye, look
down. This is how this is whereI am. And this is how I'm
looking at this is where thisperson is this is where they're
(17:46):
looking at it. Is there anotherway can I bring something else
into this to help us movethrough it? So that's one of the
things I do professionally. I dothat with my family. I do that
with some of my friends. So thatwould be one of one of those
bits of advice that I could giveI guess 360 degree view.
(18:07):
Remember that our perspectiveisn't the only one.
Stephanie Allen (18:10):
I love that.
Maren Oslac (18:12):
That's great. Yeah.
It's a great practice. And youstarted, I love because it's
kind of bookend you started withtake a breath, and you ended
with 360 degrees. And those twothings alone can like transform
your world, both professionally,personally on all levels.
Barb Miller (18:30):
That's right. Well, one of my colleagues, once I was
talking to her on the phone, shejust had a really difficult
situation. And she wasbreathlessly telling me about it
while she was driving home. Andall of a sudden I heard this.
And I said what was that? Ithought she had a flat tire. Her
cell phone was on the roof ofher car. She had been so
flustered. She left a cell phoneon the roof of her car, and went
(18:51):
dat, dat, dat, dat. And she wasdriving down the highway and it
went flying and she's like, Ohmy god, oh my God. And I said, I
just said just take a breath.
And she said I wanted to killyou with that moment. She said I
just want it I just wanted myphone can you imagine losing
your phone anyway, she I saidjust pull off to the side of the
road stop. But don't get outinto traffic like just take a
breath and and then go home andshe wanted to go back and get it
(19:14):
and she did and it was quitecrushed. And it was not worth
saving. But she she just shesaid that. You saying breathe. I
wanted to kill you. That's notwhat I wanted at that moment.
She said later on I was gladthat I took a breath but you
know she, that's what we do. Wejust get ourselves flustered
that things go flying this wayand that literally and
(19:36):
figuratively. So breathing isimportant.
Stephanie Allen (19:41):
And I feel like you know when I'm saying the
fierceness It's fierce loveBarb, like you were able to see
the highest potential forsomeone and you can recognize
when they're seeing themselvesless than what their capability
is. And so it can feel likeexpect Sometimes, like when
we're in our lower self whenwe're in our complaining,
(20:03):
grumpy, whiner, I can't, youknow, the self pity self, that
it can feel outside ourselves.
When someone holds us toaccountability to a higher
level. It can feel a littleharsh like that woman see her
cell phone. When What do youmean? Just breathe? I just lost
like a, you know, a $1,100 cellphone, what are you talking
about? But at the same time,you're saying slow down, it's
not worth it, your life is notworth your life is worth so much
(20:26):
more than a cell phone. And it'sjust a cell phone. It's just,
you know, it's just a materialitem. It's not your soul. You
haven't lost your soul.
Barb Miller (20:37):
And we're dealing sorry.
Stephanie Allen (20:40):
Yeah, no, I was just saying that's what I what I
love about you is that, youknow, when your fierce, it comes
from fierce love, not from acontrol or manipulation or I'm
right, you're wrong kind ofthing. It's from a place of
like, are you able to see yourbest version of yourself right
now because I, you're able tohold that for, for yourself, for
(21:00):
others. And to me, that's athat's a great gift.
Barb Miller (21:04):
Thank you. And I think I've had to caution myself
with that gift, time after time,to to not have an image of what
I think somebody should be andhold that in rather than hold
space for them to figure it out.
So I've had to watch that a fewtimes. Because what I think is
someone's potential may not atall be what they what they are
striving for, or trying touncover in themselves. So
Maren Oslac (21:29):
that's the key.
Yeah, it is that's so, soimportant for leaders for
leaders of every walk of life,whether you're a parent, or
maybe especially as a parent, orin business, or you know, just
with friends or whatever. Youknow, it's like we do see the
potential in people and it can'tbe our version of their
(21:50):
potential, that we need to holdthe space for them to discover
their potential for them to stepinto it, whatever it is for
them. And I know I've, Stephanieand I have talked about this in
the past, I've struggled withit, she's struggled with it of
like, pull back my version of itto make even more space for
(22:11):
their version and then and stillhold that potential for them.
It's that to me is a reallypowerful leader.
Stephanie Allen (22:24):
So I see a great mystic behind you. And for
those who are listening, you'renot going to be able to see what
is over Barb's head or to herover her shoulder but there is
his adorable furry friend who Iwould call a mystic of being
because he's just lovely. And Iwould like to introduce the
audience to him because I thinkhe's been very much a guide for
(22:47):
you. Like he said, that's whoyou take out. Or he takes you
for a walk. I don't know whotakes who. But he's been a real
guide for you, hasn't he?
Barb Miller (22:56):
He has. His name is Zeffy. He's a Puggle and a
Puggles mix of pug and Beaglethat have called one parent was
pug Beagle. And one was pugBoston. So he we call them pug
on stilts, he's got long legs,so he loves those walks. And
(23:16):
I've had people say when we'reout Stephanie, who's walking who
because I let him have full leadand you know, zig and zag all
over the road and not the road,the trails. But yes, he's the
He's a wonderful little part ofmy days. And I take him to work
with me. He's 12 Now, so he's,you know, he's becoming a senior
(23:39):
dog. He's pretty quiet. He'slaying on the floor beside me
right now snoring and hisbellies growling a little bit,
but he's, he's here with mealmost all the time. And I've
written a little book that'swhere Stephanie's going with
this. The book is called Zig ZagZeffy, and it's a story I've
(23:59):
written for children and it'sabout a puppy being part of a
litter and a human me comingalong and saying I love this pup
and bringing him home with meand there's some adjustments to
make both for him and for me. Hemakes some mistakes and we get
some training for him and for meand we have a great way that we
(24:26):
move through life together. Sothat's that's the story in a
nutshell, but it's a children'sstory and my my hope is that
children will love it. It's arhyming story. So children there
has a cadence that children Ithink can pick up and and enjoy.
It has teachable moments forthose who work with young
(24:46):
children or who are parentingyoung children. Talks about a
time when you might be sad orscared and if you make a
mistake, how do you pickyourself up and move on so I'm
and it's being it's beingreleased in August, August 15,
is is the day. So hopefully,people will find it and enjoy
(25:07):
it. And we'll move on fromthere.
Stephanie Allen (25:12):
What I love, go ahead
Maren Oslac (25:16):
my question is, can you share with us how, like your
diverse background of, you know,I know you have a degree with in
in child development and thatyou've worked in the nonprofit
sector and you've worked withleadership groups and like all
(25:37):
of this has likely I'm I'mguessing that it all came
together somehow in this book.
And I would love to know whatthat looks like for you. And,
you know, if you could speak tothat,
Barb Miller (25:55):
well, I, when you said earlier, I started with
breathing, and I ended with 360degrees. I started as a child, I
started my career working withchildren, I work with, with
youth and families still, and Ijust think children and animals
(26:15):
got it all figured out. There'sthat innocence and that way of
living. You know, dogs haveunconditional love, and that the
tail wagging and the littlePuppy kisses. They're just these
loving little creatures,children, you know, there's so
much joy if a child is is sohappy, you know, and if they're
(26:38):
sad, boy, we know it is. Soworking with children being
around animals, I think they gotit right. I've always always
written, I've always writtenlittle stories from the time I
was a child, got a couple ofnovels in the works, we'll see
if those can come out at somepoint. But putting all of of who
(26:58):
I am, what I've lived, what Iwhat is important to me
together, I went right straightto a children's story. And I've
heard I mean, I see things andmaybe it's only because I've
written a children's story. ButI hear and see lots of things
about, do you want to be achildren's story author, like
it's a big thing. And that wasthat wasn't it with me, I just
(27:19):
naturally came to that. Andtried to put into rhyming words,
which wasn't, which wasn't easy,but it also at the same time
flowed out me a little bitabout, you know, feelings and
purpose and happiness andsadness and working together.
(27:40):
And so all the things that havesort of in themes through my
life and my career came out inthis children's story.
Stephanie Allen (27:47):
I think there's a belief system, that children's
stories are just for children,and I love that, you know, the
parent or the adult can read thestory to a child, and there's a
message there for the adult too.
And I always say there's a childin all of us, and sometimes we
quickly get out of our childhoodand think we have to grow up and
do something and be somethinginstead of really nourishing the
(28:10):
child along the way. And andchildren, like you said,
children and animals have suchan honesty, they have such a
rich connection to to theirsouls, to spirit, and they can
tell when people are beingauthentic or not. And the
curiosity and the kindness andthe wonder that they have I
(28:31):
think there's so much thattruly, like when I say over your
head, I said that you have amystic over your head, and that
that would be Zeffy. You know,because Zeffy it's like,
sometimes you think, you know,did, did you go out and get the
dog and you're going to trainthe dog? when really the dog
actually trained you when you'retraining each other. Right? And
it's a it's a it's a cocreation, rather than a power
over each other. And I think wetake that into leadership too.
(28:56):
We think, oh, we have to havepower over something or someone
instead of making it acollaborative cooperative
experience that we are bothgrowing and learning and how we
deal with ourselves when we messup. And can we bring in your
qualities of curious andgentleness and kindness and
starting from a new place again,breathing and resetting. So I
(29:17):
think for those of you out therethat are listening, and you're
thinking oh, well, that's achildren's story. I read it
myself. I already got a goodpreview of a book ahead of time
and it is lovely and take itdeeper because there's something
for all of us in everychildren's book, especially the
one that you're doing with zigzag Zeffy
Barb Miller (29:41):
and I'm working on zig zag Zeffy and friends,
number two.
Stephanie Allen (29:45):
Okay!
Barb Miller (29:46):
coming soon and I do you know, when I started
talking, when you first asked meto go deeper in there and and I
said that being that being has apuzzle, you know, Zeffy's a mix
but Zeffy is Zeffy. And hebrings all of who he is to
everything. And inclusivenessand diversity is so important to
(30:09):
me. And and I want to writesomething about all the
different kinds of dogs thatZephie is friends with and how
they, how they make their waythrough life. And yes, those are
deeper messages and forchildren, but they're for all of
us. Yeah.
Maren Oslac (30:26):
Yeah, we learn so much from nature. It's amazing.
Would you, would you let us knowhow if there are people in the
audience that are interested inordering the book or finding it,
I know it's a pre order rightnow. And then the podcasts will
come out. And eventually it willjust be an order. So where can
they find the book, both inCanada and the United States,
Barb Miller (30:49):
you can get it on Amazon, us, Amazon, Canada,
Amazon UK, good reads, you canget at Barnes and Noble in in
the US. And so and you can alsoget it through your local
bookstores, they should be ableto find it in order for you as
well. And so I do hope thatpeople enjoy it. I've had one of
(31:14):
the early reviewers shared itwith a three year old who's now
reciting it, she sent me alittle video of the three year
old and I I'm very kind soul, asI said, and I used to cry really
easy, but I don't anymore. Butthat made me cry this little
three year old, talking aboutsame sex and the human human mom
picking him up. And it waslovely. So I know, I know that
(31:39):
I've impacted one childpositively. So that's pretty
special.
Maren Oslac (31:45):
And their parent,
Barb Miller (31:46):
And their parents and their friends.
Maren Oslac (31:51):
Just as a quick reminder to our listeners, don't
worry about like trying to writethat down or anything. We'll
have all of it in the shownotes. So just go to our show
notes. And there will be linksto the book on all the different
platforms that that I can figureout to list.
Stephanie Allen (32:09):
And if you are in the Halifax, Nova Scotia
area, and are available, you arehaving a live meet Zeffy in
person book launch too, is thatcorrect?
Barb Miller (32:19):
That's right. And that's on August 28, Sunday
afternoon from three to 430. Andpeople are welcome to pop by and
say hi to me and meet Zeffy.
He'll be there with him his bestbehavior. I'm sure that little
shenanigans may happen. Butthat's okay, too.
Maren Oslac (32:39):
I know I'm jealous.
I'm, I'll be in the Chicago areathen. So I won't be able to be
there. I'll be there in spirit,though. Right.
Stephanie Allen (32:48):
Thank you.
Well, thank you so much for thishas been so delightful. And I'm
just so excited for you. I knowthis has been a long time dream
of yours is to be an author andknown as an author and to get
your wisdom and your heart andsoul out there to make a
difference in, like I said,intentional leadership in
changing the lives and bringingus together. So I am so
(33:10):
celebrating you right now, andyou're inspiring me once again.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Barb Miller (33:18):
Yeah, thank you for this opportunity to talk with
you about my thoughts onleadership and about Zeffy and
to share with the two of you.
And hopefully listeners will beable to, to nod or say, Oh, I
didn't think of it that way. Ireally hope that this podcast, I
think I've listened to a fewother ones. And you guys are
(33:40):
just amazing in your thoughtprocesses and bringing different
perspectives. So I was veryexcited to be asked to be with
you. And thank you so much forthat opportunity.
Maren Oslac (33:52):
Well, I'm just excited. As I said earlier, I
have gotten to know you a bitover the podcast, I didn't know
you beforehand. And I love thedevelopment of, you know, all of
your professionalaccomplishments which are wide
and varied and absolutelyamazing. And to take all of that
(34:12):
and still follow that dream likeyou know, like Stephanie was
mentioning that, that fierce inpassion that comes from from
love. And to continue of like,How can I keep serving and
that's I think the theme that Isee in your life is that there's
been this how do I serve? How doI serve my community and it's
(34:33):
once again happening with thisbeautiful book and I can't wait
for Zeffy and his friends andany of those novels that might
show up for us. So thank you somuch for joining us today.
Barb Miller (34:46):
Thanks again to both of you.
Maren Oslac (34:47):
So remember, you can find us on YouTube, on
Facebook and on LinkedIn underthe soulful leaders. You can
also find us on our website, thesoulful leader podcast.com, we
will see you all next week onthe soulful leader podcast
Stephanie Allen (35:13):
and that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (35:19):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website at thesoulful leader podcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (35:29):
Until next time
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