September 23, 2025 • 34 mins
Ever noticed how often we get trapped in rigid, black-and-white thinking that leaves no room for growth or connection?
That 'certainty' might actually be your biggest obstacle.
Stephanie and Maren share their illuminating conversation, that explores
- the hidden dangers of all-or-nothing thinking
- being stuck in patterns of right versus wrong
- the 'yes versus no', and 'us versus them' trap
- internal boundaries that matter more than the external ones we try to enforce on others
They share personal stories about how this mindset creates barriers in relationships, workplaces, and even in our own self-development.
Stephanie shares a powerful client interaction that demonstrates how rigid thinking blocks healing, while Maren vulnerably discusses a team meeting where she caught herself in the certainty trap.
The episode offers practical techniques to create spaciousness in your thinking:
- observing rather than absorbing your reactions
- using conscious breathing to notice when you've slipped into rigid patterns
- approaching situations with curiosity instead of certainty
They share simple shifts that can transform conflicts into opportunities for deeper understanding, higher functioning businesses and tighter teams.
What makes this conversation particularly valuable is their exploration of how all-or-nothing thinking extends beyond personal struggles to create societal polarization.
When we're caught in competitive rather than cooperative mindsets, we're easier to control and manipulate.
Ready to break free from the limitations of black-and-white thinking? ✅
🎧 Listen now to discover how creating space for possibility can transform your relationships, work, and inner peace.
🙌 Then join our community at tslplife.com to continue the conversation about evolving your thinking and leadership.
Please share your insights and questions in one of our Soulful Leaders groups:
Get all the latest episodes, news and updates directly to your inbox. Subscribe here. TheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com
Watch the podcasts on our YouTube Channel: @Soulful Leaders
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Allen (00:04):
In a world where we have everything and
it's still not enough, we'reoften left wondering is this
really it?
Maren Oslac (00:10):
Deep inside, you know there's more to life.
You're ready to leave behindthe old.
Push your way through and claimthe deeper, more meaningful
life that's calling you.
That's what we invite you toexplore with us.
Stephanie Allen (00:22):
We're your hosts, stephanie Allen and Maren
Oslac, and this is the SoulfulLeader Podcast.
Yay, hi, welcome to the SoulfulLeader, podcast Boy.
Have we got something good totalk about today?
Just saying that just meansthat Stephanie is fired up.
I'm fired up, I'm fired up.
(00:43):
I had an interesting experiencetoday at work, at work.
So I help people with chronicpain and I often find that it's
the underpinnings of chronicpain that helps to alleviate it.
And what I mean by that is thatwe need to explore our thoughts
and our beliefs and ourattitudes that may be causing
(01:05):
some of the tension in our body,especially if we've tried
everything else, like stretchesand medications and all those
things, and they're not working.
It's usually something more onthe mental plane, and I had this
long-term friend of mine that Ihaven't seen for a long time
actually long-term friend ofmine that I haven't seen for a
(01:28):
long time actually and she camein today and boy, has she ever
got some interesting thoughtsand beliefs and attitudes?
And it brought up a whole lotof stuff because there was no
space as a therapist, there wasno space to even have a dialogue
, so I just kept reflecting itback to her, and what I mean by
that is that she was absolutelycertain that this was the
problem, and you know.
(01:49):
When you're going to a therapistor you're going to, you're
trying to ask for help.
It's good to let go of yourcertainties.
I often say when you're really,really certain, you might want
to do another look, becausethere's no space for possibility
, creativity, and it doesn'tmean that you're indecisive.
I think that's a real key thingis that if you don't know,
(02:12):
you're all mamby-pamby Sometimes.
That is actually the space thatallows the clarity to come is
to sit without trying to figureit out or force it is to sit
without trying to figure it outor force it.
Maren Oslac (02:33):
I think for myself, I can really relate to what
you're saying because I see itin the people around me.
Right, that's where we seethings and I know that I do it
too, and it's so much moreobvious when I see the people
around me when they complainabout it's like my leg is still
hurting or my this is whatever,and have you tried this?
No, no, no, have you tried?
Oh, no, no, oh, no, no, like,and they just dismiss everything
and they know Right.
(02:54):
So, yeah, I can.
I can totally relate with, withthis woman.
Stephanie Allen (02:59):
So so I was.
I was really interested in thatbecause I what was coming up
for me is like when we are in anall or nothing, thinking like
it's my way or the highway, orwhy bother, nothing ever works
out anyway.
I might as well not even botherselling my business because
nobody wants it anyway.
It's like the old saying youshoot yourself in the foot.
(03:22):
It's like every time you'retrying to take a step forward
you've shot yourself in the foot.
So there's an external way ofbeing in the world, with that of
, like you just said, no, I'vealready tried this.
No, I'm not interested in that,I'm not interested in this.
No, I don't want to do that.
We push, push, push, push awayin the outer world.
But there's also that internalthat we don't even drop into our
(03:44):
inner mindset because we say toourselves why bother?
I've tried it before, it's notgoing to work.
Or nobody wants what I have togive them, or it's like an all
or nothing, and we do it toourselves and we do it to each
other.
Maren Oslac (04:03):
I'm going to use an example from our own team
meeting this week, where goodone yeah definitely is laughing
me because she was at the teammeeting.
Um, you know, we were alwayslooking at where how are we
expanding and what are we doingand what's next for us, and one
of our team members was superexcited about memberships and
subscription things and andthat's kind of the direction
(04:24):
that we want to go, and have youlooked at this?
Have you looked at that?
And it's something that,personally, I have invested a
lot of.
I invested two years of my lifeinto looking into memberships
and building three othermembership sites for other
people and that type of thing,and so I went into yep, been
there, done that.
(04:45):
Have all the answers?
All or nothing, thinking All ornothing, thinking, there we go,
and another one of our teammembers very politely called me
on it.
Stephanie Allen (04:55):
It was like you know what would it be like if
you let that story go is?
what she said and I was like wow, wow, that's fantastic yeah,
and, to be fair, oftentimes thatneeds to be articulated to get
to the new way of thinking, andso tell me about a new way of
(05:21):
thinking, like use it, like toget from, from the old place of
I don't want to, you can't makeme that kind of thing or it's
all or nothing.
It has to be this way.
We have to control it to fit itin a box, we have to let that
go.
What would be a new way ofthinking?
What would that be?
Maren Oslac (05:37):
right.
So I, in every situation it'sgoing to be different, and so
there does need to be space.
You mentioned space, like whenwe're stuck in the all or
nothing thinking.
There's no space and oftentimesone of the things.
So I'm going to rewind a littlebit.
At the time I didn't feel stuckin the all or nothing thinking.
(06:01):
I felt like I needed toarticulate what was going on,
what my experience was, becauseoftentimes we don't want to
throw out the baby with thebathwater, right, so we don't
want to toss the entire thingand I needed to toss out there
like, hey, there are thesethings.
(06:23):
That here's an area that Ibecame an expert in, and I
haven't pursued it continually,so I'm not completely an expert
in it, and I did invest two tothree years of my life in it.
So I wanted to bring myexpertise to the table while
also holding space for here's myexpertise, here's the
excitement, if we take those twothings and we look at what's
(06:48):
possible from there.
Stephanie Allen (06:50):
Yeah, from that place that merging from
emerging of the experience,emerging the inspiration.
Where is that going to lift us?
To?
Yes, Because you're not thesame person now as you were two
or three years ago.
Maren Oslac (07:02):
Right, and our business is not the same, right,
and it's not the same that youknow.
And it's not the same as thebusinesses that I was working
with.
See, the other thing that I didpoorly or I say the main thing
that I did poorly was I didn'tarticulate of saying I want to
share my experience and then Iwant to go to the higher level,
I want to go, I want to seewhat's possible from there.
(07:25):
So what it came out soundinglike was you know what, been
there, done that, no thank you.
And that's not how I wasfeeling on the inside.
It wasn't a no thank you to me,it was a been there, done that.
So what's different now?
Stephanie Allen (07:42):
Yeah, and I think it takes a lot of
self-awareness to go okay, waita minute, am I pushing away
something?
Am I so rigid that I'm not evenallowing help or inspiration or
possibility from a differentway?
And also internalizing, and ifI do start looking at this, am I
(08:03):
being mamby-pamby, am I beingwishy-washy?
I think there's a lot of that,and why I'm saying is that that
internal all or nothing thinkingends up in the external all or
nothing.
And so we have to oscillatebetween outer our conversations
with or our experiences withother people and also our
internalization of things.
(08:24):
And you know, before thepodcast, maren and I do a lot of
research around what have beenthe trends and what are the
things.
And I remember one of ourteachers saying that in the
1800s the main disease of thecentury was pneumonia and a lot
of people died at a very youngage from pneumonia because we
(08:45):
didn't have the skillfulness, wedidn't have the knowledge, we
didn't have the things in placeto be able to help it.
And then the next century, the1900s, is cancer, and cancer has
a lot of interesting I know inchinese medicine.
They don't even look at it,they don't even call it cancer,
they just they call it stuckenergy and I you know it's very
interesting if you look at itfrom different points of view,
(09:06):
and I think that's what we'retalking about in the all or
nothing.
All or nothing doesn't allowthe space to look at something
from a different perspectivehigher, lower, or from a
different 360 degree view.
So that was the 19th century.
Here we are in the 20th.
Now, in our current century,it's mental illness and that's
(09:27):
on the inside, that's thedisease that's most affecting us
.
Exactly Is, you know, thinkingand I don't want to say about
right or wrong thinking, becauseit's not about that.
It's like do we have spacewithin our own awareness to make
space to observe our thoughts,our reactions, our behaviors,
(09:49):
instead of just automaticallygoing with them?
Can we go?
Oh, that's interesting.
I'm feeling like I want tofight this, or there's a part of
me that just doesn't even wantto make.
I don't even want to listen tothat conversation.
So, like going back to myclient today, she has some very
interesting views andperspectives which are totally
opposite of mine, and I couldfeel myself going into all or
(10:12):
nothing, thinking on the otherside of like, no, you're wrong
and I'm right, and, and you know, if you're going to continue to
talk this way, I'm not going totreat you and these are all
thinking instead of just sayingisn't't that interesting?
She has a very differentperspective than what I do, and
can I let go?
Can I let go and make space fora conversation rather than a
(10:39):
lecture?
Or convincing?
You know, convincing, yeah.
Maren Oslac (10:45):
We live in this time where right and wrong are
what most people talk about, andit is a way of thinking of I'm
right, you're wrong, what'swhat's right, what's wrong,
what's all of this?
And it puts us in a up-down, aone-up, one-down, a controlling
(11:08):
position.
If I'm right, then I amcontrolling.
I can use that I'm right.
If I'm wrong, then I oftentimesfeel like, oh, I've been
controlled, so I need to becomeright.
And now we're in a clashingplace instead of uniting place.
So it becomes competitioninstead of cooperation and
(11:33):
oftentimes, like a teenagerusually will want to think it's
like I don't want to think likemy mom does, or I don't want to
think like my dad does, I wantto do things differently.
So we take the opposing pointof view instead of realizing
that that's still the way ofthinking.
(11:54):
That's behind the point of viewis still the same way of
thinking.
It's still that right, wrong,good, bad, I'm right, you're
like yeah, you just polarizedyou just polarized it badly when
I said the other night at ourteam meeting is, instead of
(12:28):
coming at it from a place of howdo I bring this together, I
started from.
I've been there, I've done that,and it instantly took our team
and split our team.
And so we do that withinourselves, we do that with our
friends, we do that with ourpartners, we do that at work, we
(12:49):
do that everywhere.
And it's the same thinking,even though we think I'm going
to be different.
We are perpetuating the samelevel of thinking.
And there is another level ofthinking of how do I do this,
how can I bring this together?
And one of the things I lovedabout our team meeting is we
finally got to the place ofrealizing like we want to do it
(13:12):
collaboratively, and I wastrying to I didn't use the best
words To set that in motion.
And so there's all thesebeautiful learning experiences
of like how do we continue tolearn and grow?
And one of that same teacherthat Stephanie was talking about
.
One of the things that healways says is, instead of
(13:35):
making that snap judgment, saywhat an interesting creation or
what an interesting like, tellme more so we bring our
curiosity.
Exactly, we bring our curiosityto it.
Stephanie Allen (13:49):
Yeah, to lean in rather than to push away.
I think that's a real practiceright there of like, being able
to let go or suspend, beingright or wrong or good or bad.
And even the words of like younever and I always, you know,
those separate, they don't unite.
(14:10):
And I remember hearing I thinkit was Byron Katie that says you
know, when someone is in thatall or nothing thinking and
they're accusing you ofsomething Like you never, ever,
put the toilet seat down or youknow, I'm always having to clean
up after you and when, so so ifsomebody says that to you and
(14:30):
they're like because it's, it'smaking a fight, they're accusing
, you know, accusing you of allor nothing thinking.
It's like well, I'm sure it'snot always and or never, there
may be sometimes, or a lot oftimes maybe.
Even I remember Byron Katie'sresponse was to say you might be
right because people want to beright, so you might be right.
I'll take a look at that andthen zip it like, don't say
(14:55):
anything more, because it reallydiffuses that energy of
fighting and and you know what,they might be right, that you do
leave the toilet seat up orthat you never.
You know that you're, that thatperson is, you know, cleaning
up a lot after everybody.
That could be true, and I thinkwhen we make that space and
staying curious to look inside,it's that looking inside, and as
(15:18):
a culture we do not, and as aculture we do not know how to
look inside.
We look outside for the answers.
We're trained that way.
That's the conditioning.
And so to look inside to theanswers, we don't even know what
the heck that means.
Or even if we do look inside,what are we listening to?
(15:38):
Often the conditioning.
I hear my mother's voice.
I hear my dad's voice.
I hear my dad's voice.
I hear my teacher's voices.
Where's Stephanie's voice?
What is Stephanie's voice?
What is the voice of the divine?
Maren Oslac (15:53):
You know, and you just start I was thinking about
that today, you know, when youwere just talking about your
client of nobody has modeled.
Very few people have modeledfor us a higher way of
interacting and, to be honest,it's easier to control us when
(16:13):
we're at each other's throats.
When we're in this competitive,all or nothing thinking, we're
actually very easy to controland the powers that be right now
, all of them I'm not sayinganybody that's in particularly
in power in politics or whateverbut we're in a world where the
(16:41):
powers that be want to stay inpower and that means controlling
us and that means not wantingus to truly evolve.
So there has been a literaldumbing down where we've been
either tried they're trying tokeep us at the same place or
(17:01):
take us backwards, because thereare people like our listeners,
you all, that are revolving andsaying I'm tired of the conflict
, because what happens inconflict is you either get to be
right or you get to be inrelationship, because when
(17:22):
you're right, Relationshipintimacy Into me.
I see, when I get to be right,the other person is wrong and it
puts a layer between us.
It puts us, like I said, in aone-up, one-down position.
Well, it's a wall, right it?
Stephanie Allen (17:36):
creates a wall around ourselves because we're
doing it out of fear, so we'redoing it to protect ourselves,
and yet that's the very thingthat's making us vulnerable like
not even vulnerable, butstopping us from being able to
evolve, because we hit theceiling right.
There's no space for us tospread our wings and try new
things.
And yeah, it's a real, it's areal interesting perspective.
(18:00):
It's like how do we, how is itthat we first of all, how is it
that we's like, how is it thatwe first of all, how is it that
we got here?
And how is it that we canchange it?
Through gentleness, and that'swhere I would like to do it is
through kindness and gentleness.
I'm going to bring out anotherexample is that a few weeks ago
I had a client come in.
First-time client came in inand I have an office manager
(18:23):
who's very sensitive, veryempathic, and they basically
yelled at him, like yelled athim or were totally
disrespectful to him, and thenthe client turned and was very
disrespectful to me anddifferent things.
And I worked on her anyway andI know my office manager.
He was like why do you eventolerate that?
(18:43):
You shouldn't even toleratethat.
Like, put a boundary up andthey don't get to do that.
And I'm like they're in pain.
I'm not saying that that'sright or wrong what they did, or
good or bad, but they're inpain.
So they're not themselves,they're scared, they're
uncertain, they're hurting, theydon't have a lot of life force
because they're trying to managejust getting through the day.
(19:04):
Now I worked on this personthree times.
After the third time thatperson came back in.
It was so lovely to my officemanager, so lovely to me.
They were so grateful and kindand they left and my office
manager was like, oh my God,it's not even the same person.
I'm like exactly.
I think you know, can we givespace and I'm bringing this up
(19:26):
because I hear sometimes peopletalk about boundaries of like
you need to set a boundary and aboundary.
I think most of us look at it asan all or nothing, like if you
step over this boundary, this iswhat's going to happen.
I, you know you either do thisor I'm out of here.
That's all or nothing.
Boundaries are not even aboutthe other person, they're about
you.
Boundaries are putting in.
(19:49):
You have different boundariesfor different people and it's
not about a one and done.
It's that if somebody crosses aboundary.
I'm going to let you know thatyou did that.
Hey, I would really appreciateif you could just like take a
breath before you yelled at meand, like you know, and also the
boundary is also saying toyourself this isn't about me,
(20:11):
this is about them, and they'rehurting, like being able to see
through their eyes or be intheir shoes.
That whole thing of like I wasokay, I was, I was okay.
I love that you said thatBecause I had my inner boundary
because I didn't let my mind, myitty bitty shitty committee, my
stinking thinking, beat me up.
That's a boundary.
Yes, so that part of me thatsaid you know, I'm not going to
(20:35):
take this personally, this isnot about me.
This person's in pain, my old.
If I didn't have a boundary inplace inside myself, then I'd
say, well, that's a terribleperson, how dare them?
And I would have just beenlashing out right back at them.
And then now we're at war.
Maren Oslac (20:53):
You know when I said earlier that we're easy to
control when we're in this allor nothing thinking.
That's a great example of it,because we do look to the
outside.
For what are the rules Like?
I'm supposed to have a boundary, and if they cross this
boundary, here's what I do,here's how I respond.
I need to take care of my teamand you know what.
(21:14):
All of those things are true ina certain situation.
It's not in every situation andas I grow and evolve on the
inside, those things are goingto change.
That's right and I love that.
You pointed out that your innerboundary meaning between you
and your itty bitty, shittycommittee, the part of you that
(21:35):
wants to beat yourself up, andthen, if it's beating you up, is
going to beat somebody else upand you're going to take it out
on somebody else because youfeel bad about yourself and all
of that stuff.
Exactly, the more inner work wedo, the more compassion we can
have for somebody else, becauseall that shit that we're going
through with our little inside,they are too.
Stephanie Allen (21:58):
I'm going to give you another example.
This happened a few years agobecause I have so many examples.
I remember and this is acustomer service, she was
wonderful.
I remember I had gone through abreakup and we had shared
insurance together with our carsand it was under my plan and he
was on my plan and I called theinsurance company and I got
(22:21):
somebody who answered and theywere all or nothing thinking,
like there was no space, likesorry, he has to call, like you
know, your partner, ex-partner,former partner, has to call and
you have to both be on the phoneat the same time.
This is the only way I could doit.
He was reading a script,essentially, and he had to stay
on that script and I was like,well, it's not going to happen
because he's not here anymore,he's out West, he's not
(22:46):
available, blah, blah, blah, hewon't talk to me, all these
different things.
And that's my all or nothingthinking, cause I'm like it's
not happening, like it justwon't happen.
You have to make this happen.
So my all or nothing thinkingwas coming up against his all or
nothing thinking and we werejust hitting and finally, I'm
pretty sure I said a few choicewords and slammed the phone down
and then I took a breath andI'm like, okay, this is not,
(23:09):
that is not working.
I need to have a differentapproach.
I said I'm going to call backagain.
I call back again.
I get this lovely woman.
This time I'm breathing, I'mslowing down and I'm
surrendering my all or nothingthinking.
I'm actually staying curious.
I'm like here's a situation.
I don't know how to make thiswork, but can you help me?
So I actually allowed, my, Ihad to actually surrender my ego
(23:34):
.
Maren Oslac (23:34):
So instead of you need to do this.
Stephanie Allen (23:37):
This isn't going to happen, Instead of you
need to putting them on thedefensive.
Maren Oslac (23:42):
Exactly, you went in with curiosity.
Stephanie Allen (23:45):
Yep, curiosity and surrender.
And I surrendered my ego.
And the first thing she said tome was I'm so sorry, that's got
to be really hard for you.
Let me see what I can do.
Beautiful, and within literally20 minutes she had it handled.
She completely.
I gave her the space.
(24:07):
Because I had given myself thespace.
I let go of all or nothingthinking so that I could allow
her to also let go of all ornothing thinking and allow her
to find, you know, the way thatit could unfold.
And so what she said I'm goingto put you on hold, I'm going to
call him, I'll have him on theother line and neither one of
you have to connect with eachother and I will make it happen.
(24:29):
And that's exactly what she did, but she did it lovingly, kind.
I'm like wow, but I had to letgo of my, and that's what.
Why I'm saying that is that ifyou are stuck in all or nothing
thinking internally, you'regoing to meet somebody with all
or nothing thinking externallyand you're going to butt heads
and neither one of you are evergoing to feel like you got heard
(24:50):
or that you're honored, andit's like until one of us can
let go, and that's not.
That's not allowing the otherperson to have power over you.
That's actually letting thatinternal mind stuff inside
yourself to not have power overyou.
That's actually letting thatinternal mind stuff inside
yourself to not have power overyou.
That you can make space insideyour own awareness to go.
There must be another way toconnect.
Where might that be?
How might that unfold?
(25:12):
But I have to look insidemyself and go yeah, I can't
really think that way or I haveto really let go of that.
Can I be in the not knowing andfeel safe?
Maren Oslac (25:22):
I love that example .
I think of it as it's kind oflike a container.
If we think of a container andit's divided in two and in our
all or nothing thinking, we bothare actually thinking exactly
the same way, but on oppositesides of the container.
Beautiful image, yes, exactly.
(25:43):
And to get to a truly differentway of thinking, we have to
step out of the container into adifferent container.
What does that look like?
Yeah, one above it.
Yeah, yes, it transcends andincludes, so that we still
understand and we can, you knowand include, so that we still
(26:07):
understand.
And we live in a dual world, sowe do need to be able to think
this or that.
We also live in a unified world, so evolving our thinking to
the next level, and I think alot of that has to do with I
mentioned this earlier themodeling that we have in our
world, and so the more we canstep into that and model it and
(26:32):
be transparent about it, kind oflike we were with our team
meeting, of like oh yeah, thanksfor calling us on that.
Oh yeah, thanks for calling uson that.
And how can we do it different?
How can we look at a higher wayand do it differently For me
recognizing.
I want to do that differentlyin the future so that I'm
clearer and we don't have to gothrough the crunchiness of like
(26:54):
that didn't feel very good andnow we're on opposite sides and
instead of going through thatgreat, I'm glad that we went
through it.
There's no shame, there's noblame, there's like oh, I
learned, that's great and that'swhere growth happens.
Stephanie Allen (27:09):
It is.
It's you know.
We're actually here to grow.
We're here to be more awake,more aware with love, not with,
I mean.
We tend to become more awakeand aware through pain, but that
doesn't have to be the only way.
We can also become awake andaware through love and joy and
(27:31):
inspiration too.
Maren Oslac (27:34):
So here's a place that you guys can start One of
the things for myself.
When I recognize that I'mfeeling defensive, that I feel
like I need to defend myself, Iknow that I've gone into all or
nothing thinking.
Stephanie Allen (27:52):
Yeah, because the person you might feel
attacked by I do.
Maren Oslac (27:56):
Right If I've felt attacked, or oftentimes it's not
even that person or thatincident, right?
I experienced this a lot in myhome with my husband because we
have many years together.
(28:16):
So something comes up, ittriggers something from my past
and now I'm defensive andnothing's actually even happened
in the outer world.
I woke up defensive becausehe's already there, whatever it
was.
It's like, oh my God, I'malready defensive.
I feel want to you know.
It's like I feel myself in thatenergy.
(28:37):
So when I, when that happensfor me, that's one of the times
where I start to become anobserver and I go.
Stephanie Allen (28:45):
Well, isn't that interesting Look at you go
yeah, Instead of absorbing ityou observe it.
I love that.
Say it again so, instead ofabsorbing all of the
defensiveness from the otherperson or the attacks or from
myself or from yourself, justobserve it, like, give yourself
some space, slow down, giveyourself some space and just
(29:07):
like you're watching a movie,like you're watching a movie and
you might.
You know, I always I have acrazy fun imagination.
I imagine myself with a bunchof little thought bubbles and
there's all kinds of stuffthat's going on, and I almost
literally kind of put myself inthe audience and I watch the
thought bubbles coming up or theopportunities and I'm like,
well, that's really interesting,look at all those thought
(29:28):
bubbles.
So I observe it rather thanabsorb it.
So same thing when someone'sattacking you with accusing or
you're doing something, it'slike hmm, or you're watching
something on the news or readingsomething in social media and
it just doesn't really.
It goes against your black andwhite thinking because they're
black and white thinking.
And you go, oh, I'm going toobserve my body and my awareness
(29:50):
, my behavioral.
I'm just going to slow down andjust notice.
Am I in reaction?
Behavioral I'm just going toslow down and just notice.
Am I in reaction?
Or do I want to fight them?
Or do I want to run away?
Or do I just want to deletethem and block them?
Just observe it, don't absorbit, just observe.
Maren Oslac (30:09):
One of the exercises.
Right now, we're in the middleof our eat, sleep, breathe, move
, which is our inner mastery,where we look at each of those
elements eating, sleeping,breathing and moving from the
deeper inner place.
So, instead of like what's thebest way to eat and what's the
best diet, it's what's eatingyou, and so we look at the
(30:32):
higher perspective of each ofthose things.
And we're in Breathe Week rightnow, and so one of the
exercises that we give in Eat,sleep, breathe, move during
Breathe Week is to observe yourbreathing, and it seems like a
simple exercise until you try it, and that's one of the fastest
ways.
When you start to observe yourbreathing, it's one of the
(30:54):
absolutely fastest ways tonotice.
When you go into black andwhite thinking, because you will
go into shallower breathing,you might even hold your breath.
You notice it, and now, themoment that that happens, you
have space to make a change.
Stephanie Allen (31:14):
Yeah, when you notice that you're like space to
make a change.
Maren Oslac (31:18):
Yeah, like when you notice that and you're like
okay, I'm just going to take adeep breath, you take a deep
breath and imagine that, likethat deep breath is actually
cleaning you out of that old wayof thinking and it gives you an
opportunity to be like okay,what's another way.
Stephanie Allen (31:33):
Yeah, and your nervous system will love you for
it yes, it, it literally itliterally will reset your
nervous system so that you'renot into emotional overload.
You know, sometimes we justfeel flooded and we can't think,
see.
You know, think, see or speakor hear correctly, we just we're
just somewhere else.
So it'll actually help youground you again and you get
(31:55):
your power back.
You'll stand inside yourself.
Maren Oslac (31:59):
Yeah, and then you'll be able to be a exemplar,
a mentor, an example for thepeople around you and you can
start.
This is where we start tochange the world, one, literally
one being at a time, and mebeing that one being of I shift
my own thinking in each momentand I recognize like, oh, I
(32:24):
didn't need to go down thatwhole road, I can do it
differently.
And again, like I said, noshame or blame because, like you
said, that's how we grow, sosaying and congratulating
ourselves of like I grew in thatmoment, woohoo, good for me and
good for the world, because weneed that.
Thanks for joining us.
(32:46):
Hopefully that was a good, funthing.
You get to play with breathingthis week over the next couple
of weeks.
And remember that we do ourpodcast every other week and in
between we have great blog postsfor you.
So join our email list andyou'll get those.
You can find that at tslplife.
(33:08):
That stands for the SoulfulLeader Project, tslplife and you
can find us on social media atthe Soulful Leader.
We'll see you all in two weekson the Soulful Leader Podcast.
Stephanie Allen (33:31):
And that wraps up another episode of the
Soulful Leader Podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen and
Maren Oslac.
Maren Oslac (33:38):
Thank you for listening.
If you'd like to dive deeper,head over to our website at
thesoulfulleaderpodcastcom.
Until next time, thank you.
In a world where we have everything and
it's still not enough, we'reoften left wondering is this
really it?
Maren Oslac (00:10):
Deep inside, you know there's more to life.
You're ready to leave behindthe old.
Push your way through and claimthe deeper, more meaningful
life that's calling you.
That's what we invite you toexplore with us.
Stephanie Allen (00:22):
We're your hosts, stephanie Allen and Maren
Oslac, and this is the SoulfulLeader Podcast.
Yay, hi, welcome to the SoulfulLeader, podcast Boy.
Have we got something good totalk about today?
Just saying that just meansthat Stephanie is fired up.
I'm fired up, I'm fired up.
(00:43):
I had an interesting experiencetoday at work, at work.
So I help people with chronicpain and I often find that it's
the underpinnings of chronicpain that helps to alleviate it.
And what I mean by that is thatwe need to explore our thoughts
and our beliefs and ourattitudes that may be causing
(01:05):
some of the tension in our body,especially if we've tried
everything else, like stretchesand medications and all those
things, and they're not working.
It's usually something more onthe mental plane, and I had this
long-term friend of mine that Ihaven't seen for a long time
actually long-term friend ofmine that I haven't seen for a
(01:28):
long time actually and she camein today and boy, has she ever
got some interesting thoughtsand beliefs and attitudes?
And it brought up a whole lotof stuff because there was no
space as a therapist, there wasno space to even have a dialogue
, so I just kept reflecting itback to her, and what I mean by
that is that she was absolutelycertain that this was the
problem, and you know.
(01:49):
When you're going to a therapistor you're going to, you're
trying to ask for help.
It's good to let go of yourcertainties.
I often say when you're really,really certain, you might want
to do another look, becausethere's no space for possibility
, creativity, and it doesn'tmean that you're indecisive.
I think that's a real key thingis that if you don't know,
(02:12):
you're all mamby-pamby Sometimes.
That is actually the space thatallows the clarity to come is
to sit without trying to figureit out or force it is to sit
without trying to figure it outor force it.
Maren Oslac (02:33):
I think for myself, I can really relate to what
you're saying because I see itin the people around me.
Right, that's where we seethings and I know that I do it
too, and it's so much moreobvious when I see the people
around me when they complainabout it's like my leg is still
hurting or my this is whatever,and have you tried this?
No, no, no, have you tried?
Oh, no, no, oh, no, no, like,and they just dismiss everything
and they know Right.
(02:54):
So, yeah, I can.
I can totally relate with, withthis woman.
Stephanie Allen (02:59):
So so I was.
I was really interested in thatbecause I what was coming up
for me is like when we are in anall or nothing, thinking like
it's my way or the highway, orwhy bother, nothing ever works
out anyway.
I might as well not even botherselling my business because
nobody wants it anyway.
It's like the old saying youshoot yourself in the foot.
(03:22):
It's like every time you'retrying to take a step forward
you've shot yourself in the foot.
So there's an external way ofbeing in the world, with that of
, like you just said, no, I'vealready tried this.
No, I'm not interested in that,I'm not interested in this.
No, I don't want to do that.
We push, push, push, push awayin the outer world.
But there's also that internalthat we don't even drop into our
(03:44):
inner mindset because we say toourselves why bother?
I've tried it before, it's notgoing to work.
Or nobody wants what I have togive them, or it's like an all
or nothing, and we do it toourselves and we do it to each
other.
Maren Oslac (04:03):
I'm going to use an example from our own team
meeting this week, where goodone yeah definitely is laughing
me because she was at the teammeeting.
Um, you know, we were alwayslooking at where how are we
expanding and what are we doingand what's next for us, and one
of our team members was superexcited about memberships and
subscription things and andthat's kind of the direction
(04:24):
that we want to go, and have youlooked at this?
Have you looked at that?
And it's something that,personally, I have invested a
lot of.
I invested two years of my lifeinto looking into memberships
and building three othermembership sites for other
people and that type of thing,and so I went into yep, been
there, done that.
(04:45):
Have all the answers?
All or nothing, thinking All ornothing, thinking, there we go,
and another one of our teammembers very politely called me
on it.
Stephanie Allen (04:55):
It was like you know what would it be like if
you let that story go is?
what she said and I was like wow, wow, that's fantastic yeah,
and, to be fair, oftentimes thatneeds to be articulated to get
to the new way of thinking, andso tell me about a new way of
(05:21):
thinking, like use it, like toget from, from the old place of
I don't want to, you can't makeme that kind of thing or it's
all or nothing.
It has to be this way.
We have to control it to fit itin a box, we have to let that
go.
What would be a new way ofthinking?
What would that be?
Maren Oslac (05:37):
right.
So I, in every situation it'sgoing to be different, and so
there does need to be space.
You mentioned space, like whenwe're stuck in the all or
nothing thinking.
There's no space and oftentimesone of the things.
So I'm going to rewind a littlebit.
At the time I didn't feel stuckin the all or nothing thinking.
(06:01):
I felt like I needed toarticulate what was going on,
what my experience was, becauseoftentimes we don't want to
throw out the baby with thebathwater, right, so we don't
want to toss the entire thingand I needed to toss out there
like, hey, there are thesethings.
(06:23):
That here's an area that Ibecame an expert in, and I
haven't pursued it continually,so I'm not completely an expert
in it, and I did invest two tothree years of my life in it.
So I wanted to bring myexpertise to the table while
also holding space for here's myexpertise, here's the
excitement, if we take those twothings and we look at what's
(06:48):
possible from there.
Stephanie Allen (06:50):
Yeah, from that place that merging from
emerging of the experience,emerging the inspiration.
Where is that going to lift us?
To?
Yes, Because you're not thesame person now as you were two
or three years ago.
Maren Oslac (07:02):
Right, and our business is not the same, right,
and it's not the same that youknow.
And it's not the same as thebusinesses that I was working
with.
See, the other thing that I didpoorly or I say the main thing
that I did poorly was I didn'tarticulate of saying I want to
share my experience and then Iwant to go to the higher level,
I want to go, I want to seewhat's possible from there.
(07:25):
So what it came out soundinglike was you know what, been
there, done that, no thank you.
And that's not how I wasfeeling on the inside.
It wasn't a no thank you to me,it was a been there, done that.
So what's different now?
Stephanie Allen (07:42):
Yeah, and I think it takes a lot of
self-awareness to go okay, waita minute, am I pushing away
something?
Am I so rigid that I'm not evenallowing help or inspiration or
possibility from a differentway?
And also internalizing, and ifI do start looking at this, am I
(08:03):
being mamby-pamby, am I beingwishy-washy?
I think there's a lot of that,and why I'm saying is that that
internal all or nothing thinkingends up in the external all or
nothing.
And so we have to oscillatebetween outer our conversations
with or our experiences withother people and also our
internalization of things.
(08:24):
And you know, before thepodcast, maren and I do a lot of
research around what have beenthe trends and what are the
things.
And I remember one of ourteachers saying that in the
1800s the main disease of thecentury was pneumonia and a lot
of people died at a very youngage from pneumonia because we
(08:45):
didn't have the skillfulness, wedidn't have the knowledge, we
didn't have the things in placeto be able to help it.
And then the next century, the1900s, is cancer, and cancer has
a lot of interesting I know inchinese medicine.
They don't even look at it,they don't even call it cancer,
they just they call it stuckenergy and I you know it's very
interesting if you look at itfrom different points of view,
(09:06):
and I think that's what we'retalking about in the all or
nothing.
All or nothing doesn't allowthe space to look at something
from a different perspectivehigher, lower, or from a
different 360 degree view.
So that was the 19th century.
Here we are in the 20th.
Now, in our current century,it's mental illness and that's
(09:27):
on the inside, that's thedisease that's most affecting us
.
Exactly Is, you know, thinkingand I don't want to say about
right or wrong thinking, becauseit's not about that.
It's like do we have spacewithin our own awareness to make
space to observe our thoughts,our reactions, our behaviors,
(09:49):
instead of just automaticallygoing with them?
Can we go?
Oh, that's interesting.
I'm feeling like I want tofight this, or there's a part of
me that just doesn't even wantto make.
I don't even want to listen tothat conversation.
So, like going back to myclient today, she has some very
interesting views andperspectives which are totally
opposite of mine, and I couldfeel myself going into all or
(10:12):
nothing, thinking on the otherside of like, no, you're wrong
and I'm right, and, and you know, if you're going to continue to
talk this way, I'm not going totreat you and these are all
thinking instead of just sayingisn't't that interesting?
She has a very differentperspective than what I do, and
can I let go?
Can I let go and make space fora conversation rather than a
(10:39):
lecture?
Or convincing?
You know, convincing, yeah.
Maren Oslac (10:45):
We live in this time where right and wrong are
what most people talk about, andit is a way of thinking of I'm
right, you're wrong, what'swhat's right, what's wrong,
what's all of this?
And it puts us in a up-down, aone-up, one-down, a controlling
(11:08):
position.
If I'm right, then I amcontrolling.
I can use that I'm right.
If I'm wrong, then I oftentimesfeel like, oh, I've been
controlled, so I need to becomeright.
And now we're in a clashingplace instead of uniting place.
So it becomes competitioninstead of cooperation and
(11:33):
oftentimes, like a teenagerusually will want to think it's
like I don't want to think likemy mom does, or I don't want to
think like my dad does, I wantto do things differently.
So we take the opposing pointof view instead of realizing
that that's still the way ofthinking.
(11:54):
That's behind the point of viewis still the same way of
thinking.
It's still that right, wrong,good, bad, I'm right, you're
like yeah, you just polarizedyou just polarized it badly when
I said the other night at ourteam meeting is, instead of
(12:28):
coming at it from a place of howdo I bring this together, I
started from.
I've been there, I've done that,and it instantly took our team
and split our team.
And so we do that withinourselves, we do that with our
friends, we do that with ourpartners, we do that at work, we
(12:49):
do that everywhere.
And it's the same thinking,even though we think I'm going
to be different.
We are perpetuating the samelevel of thinking.
And there is another level ofthinking of how do I do this,
how can I bring this together?
And one of the things I lovedabout our team meeting is we
finally got to the place ofrealizing like we want to do it
(13:12):
collaboratively, and I wastrying to I didn't use the best
words To set that in motion.
And so there's all thesebeautiful learning experiences
of like how do we continue tolearn and grow?
And one of that same teacherthat Stephanie was talking about
.
One of the things that healways says is, instead of
(13:35):
making that snap judgment, saywhat an interesting creation or
what an interesting like, tellme more so we bring our
curiosity.
Exactly, we bring our curiosityto it.
Stephanie Allen (13:49):
Yeah, to lean in rather than to push away.
I think that's a real practiceright there of like, being able
to let go or suspend, beingright or wrong or good or bad.
And even the words of like younever and I always, you know,
those separate, they don't unite.
(14:10):
And I remember hearing I thinkit was Byron Katie that says you
know, when someone is in thatall or nothing thinking and
they're accusing you ofsomething Like you never, ever,
put the toilet seat down or youknow, I'm always having to clean
up after you and when, so so ifsomebody says that to you and
(14:30):
they're like because it's, it'smaking a fight, they're accusing
, you know, accusing you of allor nothing thinking.
It's like well, I'm sure it'snot always and or never, there
may be sometimes, or a lot oftimes maybe.
Even I remember Byron Katie'sresponse was to say you might be
right because people want to beright, so you might be right.
I'll take a look at that andthen zip it like, don't say
(14:55):
anything more, because it reallydiffuses that energy of
fighting and and you know what,they might be right, that you do
leave the toilet seat up orthat you never.
You know that you're, that thatperson is, you know, cleaning
up a lot after everybody.
That could be true, and I thinkwhen we make that space and
staying curious to look inside,it's that looking inside, and as
(15:18):
a culture we do not, and as aculture we do not know how to
look inside.
We look outside for the answers.
We're trained that way.
That's the conditioning.
And so to look inside to theanswers, we don't even know what
the heck that means.
Or even if we do look inside,what are we listening to?
(15:38):
Often the conditioning.
I hear my mother's voice.
I hear my dad's voice.
I hear my dad's voice.
I hear my teacher's voices.
Where's Stephanie's voice?
What is Stephanie's voice?
What is the voice of the divine?
Maren Oslac (15:53):
You know, and you just start I was thinking about
that today, you know, when youwere just talking about your
client of nobody has modeled.
Very few people have modeledfor us a higher way of
interacting and, to be honest,it's easier to control us when
(16:13):
we're at each other's throats.
When we're in this competitive,all or nothing thinking, we're
actually very easy to controland the powers that be right now
, all of them I'm not sayinganybody that's in particularly
in power in politics or whateverbut we're in a world where the
(16:41):
powers that be want to stay inpower and that means controlling
us and that means not wantingus to truly evolve.
So there has been a literaldumbing down where we've been
either tried they're trying tokeep us at the same place or
(17:01):
take us backwards, because thereare people like our listeners,
you all, that are revolving andsaying I'm tired of the conflict
, because what happens inconflict is you either get to be
right or you get to be inrelationship, because when
(17:22):
you're right, Relationshipintimacy Into me.
I see, when I get to be right,the other person is wrong and it
puts a layer between us.
It puts us, like I said, in aone-up, one-down position.
Well, it's a wall, right it?
Stephanie Allen (17:36):
creates a wall around ourselves because we're
doing it out of fear, so we'redoing it to protect ourselves,
and yet that's the very thingthat's making us vulnerable like
not even vulnerable, butstopping us from being able to
evolve, because we hit theceiling right.
There's no space for us tospread our wings and try new
things.
And yeah, it's a real, it's areal interesting perspective.
(18:00):
It's like how do we, how is itthat we first of all, how is it
that we's like, how is it thatwe first of all, how is it that
we got here?
And how is it that we canchange it?
Through gentleness, and that'swhere I would like to do it is
through kindness and gentleness.
I'm going to bring out anotherexample is that a few weeks ago
I had a client come in.
First-time client came in inand I have an office manager
(18:23):
who's very sensitive, veryempathic, and they basically
yelled at him, like yelled athim or were totally
disrespectful to him, and thenthe client turned and was very
disrespectful to me anddifferent things.
And I worked on her anyway andI know my office manager.
He was like why do you eventolerate that?
(18:43):
You shouldn't even toleratethat.
Like, put a boundary up andthey don't get to do that.
And I'm like they're in pain.
I'm not saying that that'sright or wrong what they did, or
good or bad, but they're inpain.
So they're not themselves,they're scared, they're
uncertain, they're hurting, theydon't have a lot of life force
because they're trying to managejust getting through the day.
(19:04):
Now I worked on this personthree times.
After the third time thatperson came back in.
It was so lovely to my officemanager, so lovely to me.
They were so grateful and kindand they left and my office
manager was like, oh my God,it's not even the same person.
I'm like exactly.
I think you know, can we givespace and I'm bringing this up
(19:26):
because I hear sometimes peopletalk about boundaries of like
you need to set a boundary and aboundary.
I think most of us look at it asan all or nothing, like if you
step over this boundary, this iswhat's going to happen.
I, you know you either do thisor I'm out of here.
That's all or nothing.
Boundaries are not even aboutthe other person, they're about
you.
Boundaries are putting in.
(19:49):
You have different boundariesfor different people and it's
not about a one and done.
It's that if somebody crosses aboundary.
I'm going to let you know thatyou did that.
Hey, I would really appreciateif you could just like take a
breath before you yelled at meand, like you know, and also the
boundary is also saying toyourself this isn't about me,
(20:11):
this is about them, and they'rehurting, like being able to see
through their eyes or be intheir shoes.
That whole thing of like I wasokay, I was, I was okay.
I love that you said thatBecause I had my inner boundary
because I didn't let my mind, myitty bitty shitty committee, my
stinking thinking, beat me up.
That's a boundary.
Yes, so that part of me thatsaid you know, I'm not going to
(20:35):
take this personally, this isnot about me.
This person's in pain, my old.
If I didn't have a boundary inplace inside myself, then I'd
say, well, that's a terribleperson, how dare them?
And I would have just beenlashing out right back at them.
And then now we're at war.
Maren Oslac (20:53):
You know when I said earlier that we're easy to
control when we're in this allor nothing thinking.
That's a great example of it,because we do look to the
outside.
For what are the rules Like?
I'm supposed to have a boundary, and if they cross this
boundary, here's what I do,here's how I respond.
I need to take care of my teamand you know what.
(21:14):
All of those things are true ina certain situation.
It's not in every situation andas I grow and evolve on the
inside, those things are goingto change.
That's right and I love that.
You pointed out that your innerboundary meaning between you
and your itty bitty, shittycommittee, the part of you that
(21:35):
wants to beat yourself up, andthen, if it's beating you up, is
going to beat somebody else upand you're going to take it out
on somebody else because youfeel bad about yourself and all
of that stuff.
Exactly, the more inner work wedo, the more compassion we can
have for somebody else, becauseall that shit that we're going
through with our little inside,they are too.
Stephanie Allen (21:58):
I'm going to give you another example.
This happened a few years agobecause I have so many examples.
I remember and this is acustomer service, she was
wonderful.
I remember I had gone through abreakup and we had shared
insurance together with our carsand it was under my plan and he
was on my plan and I called theinsurance company and I got
(22:21):
somebody who answered and theywere all or nothing thinking,
like there was no space, likesorry, he has to call, like you
know, your partner, ex-partner,former partner, has to call and
you have to both be on the phoneat the same time.
This is the only way I could doit.
He was reading a script,essentially, and he had to stay
on that script and I was like,well, it's not going to happen
because he's not here anymore,he's out West, he's not
(22:46):
available, blah, blah, blah, hewon't talk to me, all these
different things.
And that's my all or nothingthinking, cause I'm like it's
not happening, like it justwon't happen.
You have to make this happen.
So my all or nothing thinkingwas coming up against his all or
nothing thinking and we werejust hitting and finally, I'm
pretty sure I said a few choicewords and slammed the phone down
and then I took a breath andI'm like, okay, this is not,
(23:09):
that is not working.
I need to have a differentapproach.
I said I'm going to call backagain.
I call back again.
I get this lovely woman.
This time I'm breathing, I'mslowing down and I'm
surrendering my all or nothingthinking.
I'm actually staying curious.
I'm like here's a situation.
I don't know how to make thiswork, but can you help me?
So I actually allowed, my, Ihad to actually surrender my ego
(23:34):
.
Maren Oslac (23:34):
So instead of you need to do this.
Stephanie Allen (23:37):
This isn't going to happen, Instead of you
need to putting them on thedefensive.
Maren Oslac (23:42):
Exactly, you went in with curiosity.
Stephanie Allen (23:45):
Yep, curiosity and surrender.
And I surrendered my ego.
And the first thing she said tome was I'm so sorry, that's got
to be really hard for you.
Let me see what I can do.
Beautiful, and within literally20 minutes she had it handled.
She completely.
I gave her the space.
(24:07):
Because I had given myself thespace.
I let go of all or nothingthinking so that I could allow
her to also let go of all ornothing thinking and allow her
to find, you know, the way thatit could unfold.
And so what she said I'm goingto put you on hold, I'm going to
call him, I'll have him on theother line and neither one of
you have to connect with eachother and I will make it happen.
(24:29):
And that's exactly what she did, but she did it lovingly, kind.
I'm like wow, but I had to letgo of my, and that's what.
Why I'm saying that is that ifyou are stuck in all or nothing
thinking internally, you'regoing to meet somebody with all
or nothing thinking externallyand you're going to butt heads
and neither one of you are evergoing to feel like you got heard
(24:50):
or that you're honored, andit's like until one of us can
let go, and that's not.
That's not allowing the otherperson to have power over you.
That's actually letting thatinternal mind stuff inside
yourself to not have power overyou.
That's actually letting thatinternal mind stuff inside
yourself to not have power overyou.
That you can make space insideyour own awareness to go.
There must be another way toconnect.
Where might that be?
How might that unfold?
(25:12):
But I have to look insidemyself and go yeah, I can't
really think that way or I haveto really let go of that.
Can I be in the not knowing andfeel safe?
Maren Oslac (25:22):
I love that example .
I think of it as it's kind oflike a container.
If we think of a container andit's divided in two and in our
all or nothing thinking, we bothare actually thinking exactly
the same way, but on oppositesides of the container.
Beautiful image, yes, exactly.
(25:43):
And to get to a truly differentway of thinking, we have to
step out of the container into adifferent container.
What does that look like?
Yeah, one above it.
Yeah, yes, it transcends andincludes, so that we still
understand and we can, you knowand include, so that we still
(26:07):
understand.
And we live in a dual world, sowe do need to be able to think
this or that.
We also live in a unified world, so evolving our thinking to
the next level, and I think alot of that has to do with I
mentioned this earlier themodeling that we have in our
world, and so the more we canstep into that and model it and
(26:32):
be transparent about it, kind oflike we were with our team
meeting, of like oh yeah, thanksfor calling us on that.
Oh yeah, thanks for calling uson that.
And how can we do it different?
How can we look at a higher wayand do it differently For me
recognizing.
I want to do that differentlyin the future so that I'm
clearer and we don't have to gothrough the crunchiness of like
(26:54):
that didn't feel very good andnow we're on opposite sides and
instead of going through thatgreat, I'm glad that we went
through it.
There's no shame, there's noblame, there's like oh, I
learned, that's great and that'swhere growth happens.
Stephanie Allen (27:09):
It is.
It's you know.
We're actually here to grow.
We're here to be more awake,more aware with love, not with,
I mean.
We tend to become more awakeand aware through pain, but that
doesn't have to be the only way.
We can also become awake andaware through love and joy and
(27:31):
inspiration too.
Maren Oslac (27:34):
So here's a place that you guys can start One of
the things for myself.
When I recognize that I'mfeeling defensive, that I feel
like I need to defend myself, Iknow that I've gone into all or
nothing thinking.
Stephanie Allen (27:52):
Yeah, because the person you might feel
attacked by I do.
Maren Oslac (27:56):
Right If I've felt attacked, or oftentimes it's not
even that person or thatincident, right?
I experienced this a lot in myhome with my husband because we
have many years together.
(28:16):
So something comes up, ittriggers something from my past
and now I'm defensive andnothing's actually even happened
in the outer world.
I woke up defensive becausehe's already there, whatever it
was.
It's like, oh my God, I'malready defensive.
I feel want to you know.
It's like I feel myself in thatenergy.
(28:37):
So when I, when that happensfor me, that's one of the times
where I start to become anobserver and I go.
Stephanie Allen (28:45):
Well, isn't that interesting Look at you go
yeah, Instead of absorbing ityou observe it.
I love that.
Say it again so, instead ofabsorbing all of the
defensiveness from the otherperson or the attacks or from
myself or from yourself, justobserve it, like, give yourself
some space, slow down, giveyourself some space and just
(29:07):
like you're watching a movie,like you're watching a movie and
you might.
You know, I always I have acrazy fun imagination.
I imagine myself with a bunchof little thought bubbles and
there's all kinds of stuffthat's going on, and I almost
literally kind of put myself inthe audience and I watch the
thought bubbles coming up or theopportunities and I'm like,
well, that's really interesting,look at all those thought
(29:28):
bubbles.
So I observe it rather thanabsorb it.
So same thing when someone'sattacking you with accusing or
you're doing something, it'slike hmm, or you're watching
something on the news or readingsomething in social media and
it just doesn't really.
It goes against your black andwhite thinking because they're
black and white thinking.
And you go, oh, I'm going toobserve my body and my awareness
(29:50):
, my behavioral.
I'm just going to slow down andjust notice.
Am I in reaction?
Behavioral I'm just going toslow down and just notice.
Am I in reaction?
Or do I want to fight them?
Or do I want to run away?
Or do I just want to deletethem and block them?
Just observe it, don't absorbit, just observe.
Maren Oslac (30:09):
One of the exercises.
Right now, we're in the middleof our eat, sleep, breathe, move
, which is our inner mastery,where we look at each of those
elements eating, sleeping,breathing and moving from the
deeper inner place.
So, instead of like what's thebest way to eat and what's the
best diet, it's what's eatingyou, and so we look at the
(30:32):
higher perspective of each ofthose things.
And we're in Breathe Week rightnow, and so one of the
exercises that we give in Eat,sleep, breathe, move during
Breathe Week is to observe yourbreathing, and it seems like a
simple exercise until you try it, and that's one of the fastest
ways.
When you start to observe yourbreathing, it's one of the
(30:54):
absolutely fastest ways tonotice.
When you go into black andwhite thinking, because you will
go into shallower breathing,you might even hold your breath.
You notice it, and now, themoment that that happens, you
have space to make a change.
Stephanie Allen (31:14):
Yeah, when you notice that you're like space to
make a change.
Maren Oslac (31:18):
Yeah, like when you notice that and you're like
okay, I'm just going to take adeep breath, you take a deep
breath and imagine that, likethat deep breath is actually
cleaning you out of that old wayof thinking and it gives you an
opportunity to be like okay,what's another way.
Stephanie Allen (31:33):
Yeah, and your nervous system will love you for
it yes, it, it literally itliterally will reset your
nervous system so that you'renot into emotional overload.
You know, sometimes we justfeel flooded and we can't think,
see.
You know, think, see or speakor hear correctly, we just we're
just somewhere else.
So it'll actually help youground you again and you get
(31:55):
your power back.
You'll stand inside yourself.
Maren Oslac (31:59):
Yeah, and then you'll be able to be a exemplar,
a mentor, an example for thepeople around you and you can
start.
This is where we start tochange the world, one, literally
one being at a time, and mebeing that one being of I shift
my own thinking in each momentand I recognize like, oh, I
(32:24):
didn't need to go down thatwhole road, I can do it
differently.
And again, like I said, noshame or blame because, like you
said, that's how we grow, sosaying and congratulating
ourselves of like I grew in thatmoment, woohoo, good for me and
good for the world, because weneed that.
Thanks for joining us.
(32:46):
Hopefully that was a good, funthing.
You get to play with breathingthis week over the next couple
of weeks.
And remember that we do ourpodcast every other week and in
between we have great blog postsfor you.
So join our email list andyou'll get those.
You can find that at tslplife.
(33:08):
That stands for the SoulfulLeader Project, tslplife and you
can find us on social media atthe Soulful Leader.
We'll see you all in two weekson the Soulful Leader Podcast.
Stephanie Allen (33:31):
And that wraps up another episode of the
Soulful Leader Podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen and
Maren Oslac.
Maren Oslac (33:38):
Thank you for listening.
If you'd like to dive deeper,head over to our website at
thesoulfulleaderpodcastcom.
Until next time, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.